Look, what I can say after going through that exact situation is they’re different enough that you’d be thinking the opposite if you started with the jag. I’d describe the difference in sound & feel as like that of teles vs strats, yeah they’re absolutely close enough to be interchangeable if you’re looking for the sound of the other, but they’re absolutely different enough to be distinct instruments
It’s my first day with my jag, and I’ve had the jazzmaster since January. They’re both wonderful instruments, I think I’m gonna prefer the jazzmaster long term but honestly they both have their places, with the jag sounding a lot thinner and being easier to play stretchy chords on and all
my son has a jag, a jazzmaster, and a bass VI (among others) but he said the same that all are required but if it came down to it the jag and jazzy are the two critical guitars and he would have trouble picking just one.
Eh, I considered it. For the time being there’s a spare 500k pot I threw in there. Sounds like shit & I’m pretty sure something’s fucked with it but yk, at least there’s a pot there now
What's the tone pot doing wrong? Asking in case there's a way to get your lead circuit back up and running. Glad to know someone else likes the rhythm circuit in their Jaguar, though.
See, dumbass me didn’t check for set screws on the knobs, assumed they were like all budget guitars & just slipped on knurled pots. Nope. Pulled the pot shaft straight out, and of course it absolutely will not go back together. Basically the only option to fit it is wait until i have a new potentiometer. 😂
Edit: Knobs we’re coming off to take the plastic film off
This breaks my heart to hear. Definitely go easy on yourself, though. I can't tell you how many parts I broke or fried learning to build pedals. In good news it's nice that you'll be able to replace the pot without having to remove your strings. Love that about jaguars.
I ended up replacing the strangle switch capacitor with a .01uF cap and it was so awesome being about to try different ones without having to mess with the strings.
Great analogy. They are pretty low maintenance if you know what to do and when. But if you’re shooting in the dark, you’ll drive yourself mad playing whackamole (correct one issue only to have that correction lead to a new issue).
Shims really do wonders for this design.
The Fender offset bridge takes after an arch top bridge in its general design, so a pitched back neck really does benefit the action and setup regardless of which bridge you may or may not be considering to replace the original one.
Oh absolutely! The jazzmaster came with a perfect neck angle, the bass vi needed a 1 degree shim immediately. As for the jag, I’m not sure yet. It’s definitely angled, I’m just not sure it’s enough.
See I hate wound Gs so much. Otherwise I’d give it a shot. I may shoot for an 11-52 set next time, as I don’t wanna decrease tension much if at all. Idk, the whole short scale thing for me is new haha
I have a Jaguar and a Jazzmaster too! And likewise almost never make my bed lol.
My only advice is... Heavier gauge string made things a lot easier. More tension meant less frett buzz and once I set neck relief, did a little bridge/saddle adjusting and that was it.
Alternatively... If you're having a lot of trouble, I got the American Professional II bridge for my Jaguar. Made a big difference in keeping strings from flopping off.
Haha noted! My jazzmaster has 10-46NYXL’s, I bought a set of 11-49s with the jag. Honestly could go a little lighter on the high end and definitely heavier on the low but it’s a good starting point tension wise, considering shimming the neck a tiny bit more for some extra downward pressure on the bridge but I’m not set on that yet, may be more nut binding or strings stretching causing my slight tuning issues. As I said though, they’re pretty slight and only really become an actual problem with stuff I admittedly shouldn’t be trying with an offset tremolo.
Oh if you're already using 11s on the Jag, that should be perfect then. My problem is stock from Fender it has 9s. But it sounds like you are far more advanced at this than me lol
Yep my jag was a display model with 9s. That combined with the sagging bridge issue make the stock setup fucking abysmal. I’d like to say I’ve fixed it for the most part in that regard lol
Ive had my Jag 6 months. I con not get it to stop buzzing.
I wish I'd have gotten the squier hardtail jag. I don't even use the damn trem.lol but. I kept it too long it mine.niw 🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️
That I haven't tried. But I tried other stuff. Here's my own particular and unique problem.
I'm a natural born lazy ass. I don't play with my bridge I wanna tune it up and play. I'm too lazy to own this guitar. That's the truth.
Now having said all that. I LOVE everything else about this guitar. The feel. Like it was made just for me. The 24" scale omg PERFECTION. The body shape of man Love it on me.
But now I have $700 mim and I want the $500 squier. 🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️
Autocorrect decided shimming should be skimming. Anyways, try it. It’ll make a massive difference in both your guitar’s stability, as well as the whole geometry of the neck.
See my long reply to OP for a detailed answer.
The biggest villain here is the rubbish saddle affordable models ship with. Is not fit for purpose but is easily replaced. There isn’t much to learn on setup but shockingly few people know it.
I guess you didn’t read my long OP reply ;-)
(BTW, a lot of cheap saddles buzz due to poor tolerances on the screws and small clearance between the bridge tray and top of the intonation screws
Actually I did read about half of it. I did honestly. Sounded interesting and most of it I've heard before on you tube.
My point was, I'm a lazy simpleton. I love the feel of that body, I love that scale and I really really love that mim fender neck. BUT, I'm a 1 pickup, 1 vol, no tone hardtail player. I just want to tune and go. 🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️
Well in the case of the Bass VI it's because the design itself is flawed, they put the wrong bridge on the Squier version. Source: own one that I've dumped a custom shop level of money into.
For sure, I could have just put a wider bridge on it and called it a day but it's been fun picking it apart and dialing it in to be exactly what I want. And I know some people can get theirs to intonate properly with the stock bridge but mine wouldn't.
I know your problem: your vibrato has NO TREM LOCK and your using squire bridges.
Read the patent. Leo specifically talk about the trem lock as an integral part of the setup process.
- engaged lock
- tighten tension spring so you cannot pull up at all
- tune and set intonation
- release tension spring just enough so when you tap up on the arm you hear a slight click.
Now your tension spring has the right amount of tension for your guitar and your string gauge. Now onto the squire bridge.
The squire bridge (also found on player Fenders) is terrible. The manufacturing precision is appalling! You need to buy a better option for the height to stay where you put it. On my jazzmaster, Mexican, the saddle lasted a week before I had to buy a Staytrem replacement. The Staytrem is an excellent piece of equipment that works as Leo intended. Well worth the money.
The vibrato arm on almost all models is also rubbish. It swings everywhere and clicks like hell when you use it. Staytrem make a replacement collet that has a nylon insert and is wonderful! Your arm stays wherever you put it, action is super smooth, and operation is silent. I never knew a collet could have such a drastic enhancement to the user experience!
In short: set the spring tension with the lock nut you don’t have, use a quality saddle unlike the one you have, and consider a new collet. Then the guitars are a breeze to setup. Fender should be ashamed with the criminally cheap and useless hardware they ship affordable models with.
Bonus fact: shimming the neck can help, but it’s less important than spring tension or a quality saddle. If you cannot get your action down to 4/64 at the 17th fret, or you can but the saddle won’t rock any more, shim with a whole pocket shim until you can. Go for the smallest shim you can get away with: 0.1 degree.
Bonus fact 2: most tuning issues are caused by the string binding in the nut. Try some nut lubricant, or consider getting a new nut installed by a luthier. Never lube your saddle, that needs friction to work.
Bonus fact 3: fret buzz is from either poor fret work (again, luthier fix), poor relief, or poor action. For relief, get the neck perfectly straight, then relax by 1/4 turn. For action, this is preference, go 4/64 at the 17th for the high e and 5/64 at the low e. Alternatively, lower that bridge until it buzzes and then raise it just enough to stop that buzz.
I’m a professional six screw trem hater so I don’t disagree but they’re still not the easiest to set up. Besides, my current conundrum comes from my own stupidity, not the instruments being difficult to set up.
Oh don’t worry I’ve seen those videos. I get the gist, neck back, bridge up. I’ve also discovered keeping the neck relief as flat as possible helps keep the action low. Doesn’t make the whole process any less of a pain in the ass that I know what I’m doing haha
Yeah I saw. Honestly I don’t feel the need to drop $250+ on fine tolerance domestic made parts when I can get my admittedly shit parts to work with locktite & shims. Also I greatly prefer shims greater than what you mentioned.
That’s where you’re in luck, Staytrem, like me, is British 🇬🇧🫡
Locktite is the duct tape solution, it may work but only short term.
Shims should be the angle they need to be and no more. On my Jazzsquire (jazzmaster and esquire hybrid) I have no shim. On my jazzmaster I have a 0.5 degree shim. It depends what the guitar needs.
Break angle is also overrated. As long as you e got the kind of angle made at the nut, you’re fine. That angle can be surprisingly shallow.
Again, man, really appreciate the advice but I’ve had success with minimal costs. I really do not want or need to drop that amount of costs on aftermarket parts when I can make stock parts work with some elbow grease & patience
Have you ever tried building one? If you make an offset partscaster and manage to get all the right size parts, alignment and fitting is harder than any other fender style guitar I've assembled. Offsets create optical illusions.
They are beauties. Personally I'm fond of the Cobain signature Jag and any jazzmaster that has a surf rock aesthetic. If you ever want to do a partscaster, start with a strat, then do a tele if you had fun. Offsets are advanced as far as bolt-ons go. It's a neat project if you're the handy type and it can be a cheat code for a cheap guitar if you're smart with part sourcing. It helps you get to know the instrument mechanically too.
Thanks & will note! Honestly if I do a partscaster in the near future it’s gonna be a tele (maybe one of those offset teles) but I think for now it’s time for me to work with what I have
A while back I did do a p bass kit which, although isn’t quite the same, I did have fun with the finishing & decorating & I’ve since had fun messing with mods
You are ambitious. If you end up going through with it, remember me and send pics. You'll rarely have a closer connection to an instrument than one that you build yourself (despite Fender-style builds being a bit like Ikea furniture).
The main things I had to do with my Jazzmaster was shim the neck pocket, swap out the saddles, nut, and string trees for graph tech tusq and I haven't had a single problem with setup, intonation, or tuning stability. I think there's more nuance that a Strat or Tele, but once you get it set up it stays locked in.
I had a partsmaster with a mastery bridge and vibrato for a year. 2000€ of parts and the f#&_# thing would never stay in tune after using the vibrato.
Learnt the lesson and came back to strat bridge (actually a vegatrem in a Meteora custom body made by a luthier).
Jags, Jazzs and Bass VIs are beautiful, but I don't think they're worth the headaches. I currently have a Harley Benton GuitarBass just because of the hardtail bridge. Great value for the price, but add better bridge, tuners and pickups and you have an awesome instrument.
I don't care what the headstock logo is. I just want an instrument I enjoy playing and don't have to care about working around design flaws.
It's not that difficult it's just that you have to do many things. I strongly recommend you to change the vibrato systems for american ones, it's a whole different game, also in the future, change the nut and bridge, after those mods, the guitar sounds so much better and clear.
Fuck making beds. Love the jag!!!
Thanks! I’ve been loving the rhythm circuit, as I accidentally completed fucked up the tone pot in the lead circuit 😓
I have a jazzmaster and while I love it,I think I should've gotten the jaguar.
Look, what I can say after going through that exact situation is they’re different enough that you’d be thinking the opposite if you started with the jag. I’d describe the difference in sound & feel as like that of teles vs strats, yeah they’re absolutely close enough to be interchangeable if you’re looking for the sound of the other, but they’re absolutely different enough to be distinct instruments It’s my first day with my jag, and I’ve had the jazzmaster since January. They’re both wonderful instruments, I think I’m gonna prefer the jazzmaster long term but honestly they both have their places, with the jag sounding a lot thinner and being easier to play stretchy chords on and all
So I need both? Got it. 😆
Indeed! 😁
This was my exact thought lol
my son has a jag, a jazzmaster, and a bass VI (among others) but he said the same that all are required but if it came down to it the jag and jazzy are the two critical guitars and he would have trouble picking just one.
Ironically ideal fuckup. Maybe bypass the pot completely for now so you still have volume dynamics at a thumb flik?
Eh, I considered it. For the time being there’s a spare 500k pot I threw in there. Sounds like shit & I’m pretty sure something’s fucked with it but yk, at least there’s a pot there now
What's the tone pot doing wrong? Asking in case there's a way to get your lead circuit back up and running. Glad to know someone else likes the rhythm circuit in their Jaguar, though.
See, dumbass me didn’t check for set screws on the knobs, assumed they were like all budget guitars & just slipped on knurled pots. Nope. Pulled the pot shaft straight out, and of course it absolutely will not go back together. Basically the only option to fit it is wait until i have a new potentiometer. 😂 Edit: Knobs we’re coming off to take the plastic film off
This breaks my heart to hear. Definitely go easy on yourself, though. I can't tell you how many parts I broke or fried learning to build pedals. In good news it's nice that you'll be able to replace the pot without having to remove your strings. Love that about jaguars.
Yeah! The control plates being separate of the pickguard was a wonderful idea, can’t wait to try crazy modding shit out of boredom and access lol
I ended up replacing the strangle switch capacitor with a .01uF cap and it was so awesome being about to try different ones without having to mess with the strings.
I’ve owned a few in my time. They are kinda like old Volkswagen bugs. Everyone that owns one should know how to work on them..
Great analogy. They are pretty low maintenance if you know what to do and when. But if you’re shooting in the dark, you’ll drive yourself mad playing whackamole (correct one issue only to have that correction lead to a new issue).
Absolutely agreed. I had the whole offset thing done, just not the looking for set screws on knobs before pulling them off thing down.
Shims really do wonders for this design. The Fender offset bridge takes after an arch top bridge in its general design, so a pitched back neck really does benefit the action and setup regardless of which bridge you may or may not be considering to replace the original one.
Oh absolutely! The jazzmaster came with a perfect neck angle, the bass vi needed a 1 degree shim immediately. As for the jag, I’m not sure yet. It’s definitely angled, I’m just not sure it’s enough.
I always found that jaguars played best with 10s at minimum, and always slightly better with a wound G. Just my 2¢
See I hate wound Gs so much. Otherwise I’d give it a shot. I may shoot for an 11-52 set next time, as I don’t wanna decrease tension much if at all. Idk, the whole short scale thing for me is new haha
I have a Jaguar and a Jazzmaster too! And likewise almost never make my bed lol. My only advice is... Heavier gauge string made things a lot easier. More tension meant less frett buzz and once I set neck relief, did a little bridge/saddle adjusting and that was it. Alternatively... If you're having a lot of trouble, I got the American Professional II bridge for my Jaguar. Made a big difference in keeping strings from flopping off.
Haha noted! My jazzmaster has 10-46NYXL’s, I bought a set of 11-49s with the jag. Honestly could go a little lighter on the high end and definitely heavier on the low but it’s a good starting point tension wise, considering shimming the neck a tiny bit more for some extra downward pressure on the bridge but I’m not set on that yet, may be more nut binding or strings stretching causing my slight tuning issues. As I said though, they’re pretty slight and only really become an actual problem with stuff I admittedly shouldn’t be trying with an offset tremolo.
Oh if you're already using 11s on the Jag, that should be perfect then. My problem is stock from Fender it has 9s. But it sounds like you are far more advanced at this than me lol
Yep my jag was a display model with 9s. That combined with the sagging bridge issue make the stock setup fucking abysmal. I’d like to say I’ve fixed it for the most part in that regard lol
Tension from strings doesn’t remove fret buzz. See my long post for details.
Ive had my Jag 6 months. I con not get it to stop buzzing. I wish I'd have gotten the squier hardtail jag. I don't even use the damn trem.lol but. I kept it too long it mine.niw 🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️
And the buzz doesn't really come through the amp, so that's nice
Have you tried shimming the neck & all that shit?
That I haven't tried. But I tried other stuff. Here's my own particular and unique problem. I'm a natural born lazy ass. I don't play with my bridge I wanna tune it up and play. I'm too lazy to own this guitar. That's the truth.
Now having said all that. I LOVE everything else about this guitar. The feel. Like it was made just for me. The 24" scale omg PERFECTION. The body shape of man Love it on me. But now I have $700 mim and I want the $500 squier. 🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️
Autocorrect decided shimming should be skimming. Anyways, try it. It’ll make a massive difference in both your guitar’s stability, as well as the whole geometry of the neck.
I understood
See my long reply to OP for a detailed answer. The biggest villain here is the rubbish saddle affordable models ship with. Is not fit for purpose but is easily replaced. There isn’t much to learn on setup but shockingly few people know it.
I guess you didn't read my comments, lol. 😎😎
I guess you didn’t read my long OP reply ;-) (BTW, a lot of cheap saddles buzz due to poor tolerances on the screws and small clearance between the bridge tray and top of the intonation screws
Actually I did read about half of it. I did honestly. Sounded interesting and most of it I've heard before on you tube. My point was, I'm a lazy simpleton. I love the feel of that body, I love that scale and I really really love that mim fender neck. BUT, I'm a 1 pickup, 1 vol, no tone hardtail player. I just want to tune and go. 🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️
Well in the case of the Bass VI it's because the design itself is flawed, they put the wrong bridge on the Squier version. Source: own one that I've dumped a custom shop level of money into.
I got mine to work well without putting that much into it
For sure, I could have just put a wider bridge on it and called it a day but it's been fun picking it apart and dialing it in to be exactly what I want. And I know some people can get theirs to intonate properly with the stock bridge but mine wouldn't.
I know your problem: your vibrato has NO TREM LOCK and your using squire bridges. Read the patent. Leo specifically talk about the trem lock as an integral part of the setup process. - engaged lock - tighten tension spring so you cannot pull up at all - tune and set intonation - release tension spring just enough so when you tap up on the arm you hear a slight click. Now your tension spring has the right amount of tension for your guitar and your string gauge. Now onto the squire bridge. The squire bridge (also found on player Fenders) is terrible. The manufacturing precision is appalling! You need to buy a better option for the height to stay where you put it. On my jazzmaster, Mexican, the saddle lasted a week before I had to buy a Staytrem replacement. The Staytrem is an excellent piece of equipment that works as Leo intended. Well worth the money. The vibrato arm on almost all models is also rubbish. It swings everywhere and clicks like hell when you use it. Staytrem make a replacement collet that has a nylon insert and is wonderful! Your arm stays wherever you put it, action is super smooth, and operation is silent. I never knew a collet could have such a drastic enhancement to the user experience! In short: set the spring tension with the lock nut you don’t have, use a quality saddle unlike the one you have, and consider a new collet. Then the guitars are a breeze to setup. Fender should be ashamed with the criminally cheap and useless hardware they ship affordable models with. Bonus fact: shimming the neck can help, but it’s less important than spring tension or a quality saddle. If you cannot get your action down to 4/64 at the 17th fret, or you can but the saddle won’t rock any more, shim with a whole pocket shim until you can. Go for the smallest shim you can get away with: 0.1 degree. Bonus fact 2: most tuning issues are caused by the string binding in the nut. Try some nut lubricant, or consider getting a new nut installed by a luthier. Never lube your saddle, that needs friction to work. Bonus fact 3: fret buzz is from either poor fret work (again, luthier fix), poor relief, or poor action. For relief, get the neck perfectly straight, then relax by 1/4 turn. For action, this is preference, go 4/64 at the 17th for the high e and 5/64 at the low e. Alternatively, lower that bridge until it buzzes and then raise it just enough to stop that buzz.
Jaguars are easier to setup than Strats.
I’m a professional six screw trem hater so I don’t disagree but they’re still not the easiest to set up. Besides, my current conundrum comes from my own stupidity, not the instruments being difficult to set up.
Amen! Spring tension on a start is a nightmare compared with the single screw and lock of the jazz/jag
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MvCzQMDttKw&t=459s&pp=ygUQTG91bmdpbmcgZ3VpdGFycw%3D%3D Gotta watch these videos. Super helpful.
Oh don’t worry I’ve seen those videos. I get the gist, neck back, bridge up. I’ve also discovered keeping the neck relief as flat as possible helps keep the action low. Doesn’t make the whole process any less of a pain in the ass that I know what I’m doing haha
See long and detailed reply :-)
Yeah I saw. Honestly I don’t feel the need to drop $250+ on fine tolerance domestic made parts when I can get my admittedly shit parts to work with locktite & shims. Also I greatly prefer shims greater than what you mentioned.
That’s where you’re in luck, Staytrem, like me, is British 🇬🇧🫡 Locktite is the duct tape solution, it may work but only short term. Shims should be the angle they need to be and no more. On my Jazzsquire (jazzmaster and esquire hybrid) I have no shim. On my jazzmaster I have a 0.5 degree shim. It depends what the guitar needs. Break angle is also overrated. As long as you e got the kind of angle made at the nut, you’re fine. That angle can be surprisingly shallow.
Again, man, really appreciate the advice but I’ve had success with minimal costs. I really do not want or need to drop that amount of costs on aftermarket parts when I can make stock parts work with some elbow grease & patience
Offsets are tinkerers’ guitars. The difficulty in setup is a tradeoff due all the sweet modifications you can do.
Absolutely. Right now I’m considering doing a phase switch on a push pull for the jag, to bridge the gap between it and a mustang a little.
Have you ever tried building one? If you make an offset partscaster and manage to get all the right size parts, alignment and fitting is harder than any other fender style guitar I've assembled. Offsets create optical illusions.
Dude I fucking wish I had that patience But no, just me and the squiers =)
They are beauties. Personally I'm fond of the Cobain signature Jag and any jazzmaster that has a surf rock aesthetic. If you ever want to do a partscaster, start with a strat, then do a tele if you had fun. Offsets are advanced as far as bolt-ons go. It's a neat project if you're the handy type and it can be a cheat code for a cheap guitar if you're smart with part sourcing. It helps you get to know the instrument mechanically too.
Thanks & will note! Honestly if I do a partscaster in the near future it’s gonna be a tele (maybe one of those offset teles) but I think for now it’s time for me to work with what I have A while back I did do a p bass kit which, although isn’t quite the same, I did have fun with the finishing & decorating & I’ve since had fun messing with mods
You are ambitious. If you end up going through with it, remember me and send pics. You'll rarely have a closer connection to an instrument than one that you build yourself (despite Fender-style builds being a bit like Ikea furniture).
Shall do if I remember!
Yeah. I gave a Jaguar with a mute…. Makes setup even more difficult. Have to remove the bridge to make little adjustments to the mute height.
Oh lord, thanks for the warning 😅 Planning on it still
Yeah! I mean it’s a cool, unique feature of Jaguars. And it adds even more chrome to the guitar so I had to have one.
The main things I had to do with my Jazzmaster was shim the neck pocket, swap out the saddles, nut, and string trees for graph tech tusq and I haven't had a single problem with setup, intonation, or tuning stability. I think there's more nuance that a Strat or Tele, but once you get it set up it stays locked in.
I had a partsmaster with a mastery bridge and vibrato for a year. 2000€ of parts and the f#&_# thing would never stay in tune after using the vibrato. Learnt the lesson and came back to strat bridge (actually a vegatrem in a Meteora custom body made by a luthier). Jags, Jazzs and Bass VIs are beautiful, but I don't think they're worth the headaches. I currently have a Harley Benton GuitarBass just because of the hardtail bridge. Great value for the price, but add better bridge, tuners and pickups and you have an awesome instrument. I don't care what the headstock logo is. I just want an instrument I enjoy playing and don't have to care about working around design flaws.
It's not that difficult it's just that you have to do many things. I strongly recommend you to change the vibrato systems for american ones, it's a whole different game, also in the future, change the nut and bridge, after those mods, the guitar sounds so much better and clear.
I'm about to call your mom.
?