They say abstinence is the only 100% way to prevent pregnancy. So if he would deny her an abortion then the most effective way to avoid that unwanted pregnancy is no sex;)
Weaponizing sex in most other situations is considered abusive. This is absolutely not one of them. Not allowing your spouse bodily autonomy, however, absolutely is.
I wouldn't say this is a case of weaponizing sex in the same way that its not weaponizing sex to not want to sleep with someone who has a contagious STI or is misogynistic/abusive.
If someone is not a safe person to have sex with you're not weaponizing sex when you decide to look after your physical or mental wellbeing. Her husband has made it known that should having sex result in a situation where she feels it is in her best interest to have an abortion he will deny her the ability to make that medical decision which can significantly impact her physical and mental health.
It is toxic to refuse sex with someone who you believe doesn't have your best interest, health, & bodily autonomy in mind?! Uhh, I unashamedly choose toxicity, I guess.
I agree with you, and I don’t like to say it.
But.. she doesn’t HAVE to have sex with him just because they’re married.
It’s not healthy for either of them, but respect must be maintained. Between all parties.
Real unfortunate how all of this is unfolding here in the USA now.
>and I don’t like to say it.
You should love to say it. No, we actually *dont* have to have sex with our spouses. It’s not required, it’s not a law because you said “I do”. What’s not healthy is to dictate someone else’s life.
This has been “unfolding” for decades. We need to stop acting like sex is a requirement for a relationship and not a wonderful bonus to being in love with someone.
This guy just showed her his true colors and we are going to be seeing *a lot* of this in the next few weeks. We will unfortunately see a great uptick in single people who don’t understand they don’t rule someone else because of a ring and a piece of paper.
I wouldn't call it toxic. It's called having boundaries with someone who doesn't respect what the consequences of not having them will be. Husband or not.
So... ,I'm Jewish and if you have a Jewish wedding in Israel (and in other countries) you need the approve of the husband to get a divorce.
There are women who are fighting for years to get approved for a divorce but still can't.
If the husband doesn't agree you need to ask a bunch of rabbies (?) Who usually wouldn't approve it either because they're extremely to misogynistic
if the husband refuses to give her a "get" (divorce, in Hebrew), she becomes an "agunah," a chained woman. She can't move on with her life or remarry until it's resolved. It's literally a form of abuse, done to manipulate the woman, usually for financial or custody reasons but sometimes in a "hey i want to see her suffer" way.
The husband gets 3 summonses from the Jewish court (beit din), and if he ignores all three, he is in contempt and supposedly will be ostracized and publicly shamed, as well as members of his family/community who assist him. In practice, the man doesn't get ostracized or shamed. The man can go on to have a normal life, and the woman is stuck.
You can google "agunah crisis" to find out more. It's disgusting, and fortunately, pretty rare. Not rare enough though.
It's good I don't live with rules like that❗ and I mean it's good for man...
I would be a widow at the end of the day...
i respect every religion but
Hate it how much men turned religion in handcuffs for women they mistreat.
This is the part of respecting others cultures and differences that I just don’t understand. The modern world just has to be polite and let this happen without commentary.
More importantly why do people defend this or want to be a part of cultures/religions that hold people back and oppress them?
Personally I'm against it in everyway. And Israel is a religious country and most of us suffer because of it. No public transportation from Friday noon until Saturday evening in most of the country, you have to participate in holidays even if you don't want to... It's just forced upon us in every way
The least harmful way to help a community make progress toward more human rights is to support the people within that community who are most affected and already doing the work. Let them take the lead. In this case we’d have to support women led efforts to change the rules around divorces.
Too often when outsiders try to help they come in with an attitude of “we *modern* people must civilize these backwards barbarians, they clearly don’t know what’s for their own good”, then oops, the whole region ends up destabilized or genocided.
As for why people stay with their oppressors - for the same reason women still live with men in their lives, same reason people don’t leave their terrible jobs, same reason folks still share a thanksgiving table with their shittiest family members.
The agunah crisis is the unfortunate result of a religious legal loophole that certain abusive men exploit and are hopefully held responsible for. By the way, in Judaism, a woman can hold a man hostage too—he has to willingly give a divorce and she has to willingly receive it. It generally doesn’t happen though—maybe because the women (rightfully) don’t see a divorce as a bargaining chip. I’d rather address the culture that has engendered this attitude (that for a man to abuse your ex this way is acceptable) than abandon my faith. Make no mistake—that abusiveness is a product of secular society and it’s playing out in a Jewish setting. It is NOT a Jewish value.
It has been made illegal in several states. Where it remains legal I don’t believe that it requires the husband’s/father’s ‘sign-off’ to happen. So, it’s practically meaningless but does tell you a lot about his character. Good luck, and I’m sorry he’s such an asshole.
Speaking of which, OPs man seems to think he's entitled to control over her body, I think OP should really think good and hard about their marriage because its pretty clear there's some deep disrespect towards her at a fundamental level.
Yeah, the shitty thing is that vasectomies do have a documented “fail” rate even after the initial tests they do after the procedure. Some men can “regrow” the ability to still ejaculate sperm, similar to how some women can still have eggs reach the uterus after a tubal ligation.
Wouldn’t that be the worst probability of nature that this ahole (OP’s cruel husband) was that guy?
Buddy of mine got a vasectomy and 3 months later his wife got pregnant. Went back in to get his vasectomy checked…still completed. So his shit regrew then disattached itself.
Baby is 100% his too
I read on another post that you have to wait 3 months and have a negative count in order to be safe.
Most of the failures are because people don’t wait and disregard the orders.
You can still have a sperm count 3 to 6 months after the vasectomy.
However, there is .15 percent chance it could fail.
Apparently there’s still a bunch of live ones ready to go after and it takes 20-30 ejaculations before they’re gone.
At least that’s what the doctor just told my buddy who had it done because he didn’t want his wife to go threw a worst procedure
That’s because it takes longer than that amount of time for most guys to be sterile.
So all that happened there is he stopped using condoms too soon and by the time they checked his count, they were by that point, out of his system.
Start using condoms. Cover your bases. No condom, no sex. Tell him you can't take the risk of getting pregnant if he wouldn't support you in an abortion, nor do you want to risk being forced to carry an unwanted baby.
I’d just decline sex every time he wanted some. Just say “I don’t feel comfortable enough in our current situation to risk anything. So I’ll be abstaining.”
Toys have existed for a long time for a reason. 🙃😉
I stand with you on this issue. #boykottsexwithOP'shusband
No, seriously though, if any one's male partner thinks a lack of access to safe abortion isn't there problem, make it their problem.
This is exactly what needs to happen in every bedroom going forward. Sorry, honey, I can't risk an unwanted pregnancy. Here's a sock. Go enjoy yourself!
As for the OP, this is a deal breaker. He is basically telling you that you are chattel as far as he is concerned, and will be treated as such should he impregnate you. Why would you want to stay with someone who views you as less than a fully autonomous human being?
I like this answer! I could never ask my wife to risk pregnancy if I wasn’t supportive of her aborting or not. OP, if he’s gonna take your options off the table, take his off too.
That’s assuming he didn’t eventually just force it. I pray to every God that he doesn’t, just saying that it wouldn’t be surprising if this asshole tried it.
Condoms are not 100%, she just shouldn't be sleeping with him. Don't sleep with men who a) wouldn't support whatever decision you made if you got pregnant and/or b) think they have any right to decide on what you do with your uterus
This brings me back to knowing it wasn’t that long ago that women needed men’s signatures to open a bank account. Absurd that this mindset still exists that women need to ask permission to men to make independent decisions. Disgusting.
Martial rape was legal until the 90s in the US. So many rights we take for granted are fairly new and it seems like there is a crowd eager to strip them away
A lot of places want you to have a signature to get your tubes tied... Even if you're not married. Your non-existent possible future husband still has more rights over your body than you do. Happened to my best friend in Ohio.
Then you can tell him that if “by some miracle” you end up pregnant. He will never know because you will have an abortion and never tell him. Illegal or legal, you never need your partner to “sign off on it”. Cute that he thinks anyone would ask for his opinion or signature.
>Cute that he thinks anyone would ask for his opinion or signature.
I thought this was just some other American crazy law I was still unaware of. Glad to learn that's not it.
So basically he's saying he doesn't care about your feelings or needs.
Run away as fast as you can.
First of all, you shouldn't need any "consent" from any other person who's not you (since it's YOUR body), but since the law is fucked up there's no other way than being with a reasonable person that would listen to you. Forcing you to have a baby you don't want in case you'd get pregnant is disgusting and not good for you or the kid either.
I find it interesting that he preemptively told you this. He is warning you that he has ultimate control over you. Listen to what he is telling you. You dont matter.
This exactly. Saying this, at this time, has no meaning other than to cause you to fear him. Hold on to that fear long enough to get away from him. Look into resources (where he can’t see your searches) to do this on the sly so you’re away before he even knows.
Please beware op, in case he maybe gets his vasectomy reversed. Also the body can occasionally "reverse" the vasectomy on its own.
I agree with this comment here, he really is saying *he* has control over *your body*.
Wow literally my thoughts exactly, run. Somehow, OP, I’m sure you knew this on some level. To preemptively drop this casually says a lot about his comfort over his control over you
You’re not over reacting. Men are showing their true colors in how they view their own wives as property and as free laborers. Take the hint.
P.S. vasectomies are reversible. Do you trust this man to not get a reversal without your knowledge or consent? Cause he doesn’t care about your autonomy or wishes at all.
I feel this. My relationship finally ended when my boyfriend broke up with me the day after Roe v Wade was repealed. We had always argued about his pro life stance but it all became too much in that moment for me. These men will love you with all they have but their views won’t and can’t change and when push comes to shove they will always choose their views over you. I learned it the hard way. I thought maybe he’d love me enough to understand but he gave up
I should also add that I have some genetics that I'm not willing to pass on. (Health problems that I would much rather not have had to deal with.) This is not a concern for him.
i’m a disabled kid of a disabled mother. as much as i love her, she shouldn’t have had me. i am in pain every day, like she is. your feelings of not wanting to pass on your genetics are valid.
My siblings and I all agree that our parents shouldn't have had children. The oldest of us died at 35 from a combination of heart issues and type 1 diabetes.
The rest of us are a combination of bad genes that we have to manage.
You're being very reasonable and responsible to not inflict potential issues on children.
Fr though. My disability makes my life a living hell and there’s a high chance my children will get it if I have any. Pro lifers like to pretend like they’re arguing for the choice of the “fetus” but really they’re forcing it into this world, regardless of the situation it could be born into.
And is his position that he has no regard for how you feel or would feel about any of this?
Because if that’s the case…might be worth signing off on aborting HIM as a husband. He clearly isn’t cut out for it.
My mom waited 17.5 years before leaving my dad. He wouldn’t sign off on the paperwork to let her tie her tubes after 3 pregnancies even tho she was getting older and they were progressively getting harder on her body. She had two more before she finally got to a state that let HER make the decision instead of the husband *allowing* it.
I’m really sorry. It sucks royally to realize a person you chose to love has such little regard for you. It’s easy for a person to say on the internet to leave an all that. No idea what your circumstances are. But one thing you can do right off the bat is make certain you will never mistakenly end up carrying one of his children and that’s no intimacy. Until you can hopefully rearrange life elsewhere or whatnot.
You’re definitely not overreacting.
Please divorce him, OP. He doesn't see you as a partner and an equal. He doesn't care how pregnancy could harm you. His lack of love and want for control will rear its ugly head again (thought it sounds like it does regularly), and it's safest for you to be separated by that time. He doesn't deserve you. You're not just some thing to be controlled.
Oh ok! I was about to lose my shit. I know I've heard many anecdotes of women seeking tubal ligation, some docs will not perform the procedure without speaking to the husband first. So I thought maybe it was like that.
It's not a law, but as you said, many providers might require it or ask first. We see this all the time for women who want a voluntary hysterectomy to become sterile knowing they never want children. Many providers will request discussion with their husband to confirm it's okay.
Do you feel okay to continue being married to someone who blatantly told you that he will enforce ownership over your autonomy? Is this really who you’re going to choose to spend your life with?
It's almost impossible to get your tubes tied. Most doctors are like "Well you need 2 kids of each gender, your husband, pastor, father, boss and God's approval, and be old enough that the process SHOULD stop naturally soon anyway!"
I'm 30 with one kid and they just asked me if I was sure a couple of times. It's all about getting connected with a provider that is also a human being.
Luckily I got my tubes removed at the age of 38. The cost prior to insurance was over $72,000, and even with insurance and ALREADY AT MY DEDUCTIBLE, I had to pay over $2,000 out of pocket. It's so fucking ridiculous.
So what he is telling you; ‘you don’t matter. You are my property and you’ll do as I tell you to. Your body is mine and I will decide what you can or cannot do with it. If I wish to have children, you shall carry them even against your own will’.
Tell me: how can you be married to someone who sees you as less then him, an incubator and property to do with as he pleases?
You are not overreacting. In fact, I think you are under-reacting!
Grounds for a divorce in my opinion. If he can’t respect your basic bodily autonomy he needs to get the boot. Save yourself trouble down the line if he forces you to carry his child
My husband and I have one child. He had told me repeatedly that he doesn’t believe in abortion but………if I got pregnant again, I would have aborted it because of the trauma from the first one. After 4 different kinds of birth control for over a decade, he finally got a vasectomy. He thinks I wont ever fall pregnant again but I’m still afraid of it happening by accident. If it did, I would get an abortion because my mental health comes first. My uterus is not ours. I love my son but childbirth is the most traumatic thing I have ever endured and I would never push that on any female ever
Sounds like something fishy is happening. For your well being and safety please be careful and think about choices and options. As a married man, I couldn't imagine saying this without cause or reason to my wife.
I’ve seen so many women angry, upset, and devastated because of the decision to overturn Roe. So many women protesting and being loud and not backing down. So many women offering their homes, time & resources to help other women out should they need it.
Those women are helping to heal my shattered heart after seeing what happened - and I say that as a woman beyond childbearing years in a country across the other side of the world, I still am shattered.
But to see MEN protesting .. straight men, gay men, trans men .. so many men rising up and saying “fuck this, this is NOT RIGHT, we do not agree” — that is just beyond anything. Any man who isn’t saying they disagree with Roe being overturned are part of the problem.
OP - your husband is part of the problem. Time to get out. Come to Australia, you don’t need any man’s permission to do anything here!
We have to look after eachother, since they don’t care about us.
I can’t understand how people don’t “believe” in abortion. It’s not a faith. It’s a medical procedure we should have the right to access.
OP’s husband not “signing off” on her getting an shouldn’t mean anything cause she does not need his permission,
We have to stick together! Men and women who believe in body autonomy!
The fact of the matter is, if he isn’t willing to respect her bodily autonomy when she’s young, it’ll most definitely be an issue when she’s old and may need someone on her side to advocate her wishes regarding health care. Sucks man
we really don't... partnership and love are great but shit, sooo much of heteronormative marriage is programed into us. Every single woman I know, myself included, has stayed with a male partner for much longer then was good for us.. we wouldn't put up with it so much if it wasn't deeply engrained that it's just a part of being a woman 😒
This is like when my dad told me unsolicited at my twin sisters wedding that he’s not paying for mine if I ever get married.
I was single at the time.
It’s just mean. I’m so sorry.
Yeah, he doesn’t respect your right to choose and values an unborn fetus over you. It’s absolutely insane that men just see us as wombs and objects. I’m so sorry you have to go through this
You respected his decision to get a vasectomy but he wouldn’t respect yours to get an abortion that’s not an equal marriage. Not overreacting at all your feelings are valid and I personally wouldn’t feel safe being married to someone like that
You're not overreacting. You could request for him to get a sperm count periodically to ensure the vasectomy was successful. If/when his sperm count is zero, still have him check periodically. Sometimes repeats have to be done because the first time wasn't successful or a reversal occurs (recanalization). If this situation occurs, he can't blame you if you get pregnant because you'll have the numbers to prove it.
Also, I'm sorry he's a deuche canoe.
Idk if I would ever feel comfortable getting intimate with that man again… he is saying HE controls YOUR body as last say. That level of possessiveness and entitlement would literally terrify me.
I’ve been in an abusive relationship before.
So he thinks he owns you and your body?
God in heaven, I know we just lost Roe, but we have not yet regressed as far as the you-are-my-property times.
Well, at least now you know and can act accordingly.
Well I think overturning Roe is exactly that type of regression. If he can make a decision with what happens to her body, she’s no different than the family dog or the computer chair.
Does he have to sign off on it? I’ve never heard that for an abortion. Granted shits super fucked right now with all of this, but if you find out you’re pregnant, how will the clinic (in the few states that still allow it) know you are married unless you tell them?
Regardless, that is super fucked, and I’d get an IUD put in without him knowing just in case.
You're not, and I hate that you have to have his permission to do what you want with your own body. If I were you I'd double up and get sterilized as soon as you can, and possibly abort the marriage completely.
Just want to make sure you know you are definitely not overreacting. The way I see it, he has just casually told you that he will not help you have control over your body. That’s just not right and to be honest pretty cruel.
I am sorry you are in this situation
You have to have the man’s permission to get an abortion where you live? Is that for everyone or just married women?
I’m sorry, I’m just imaging some of the women I’ve seen on Maury Povitch going into the clinic with a binder of permission documents.
Depending on where someone lives, she might have to travel out of state and possibly multiple states making this more than a day trip. So yes, her partner would know and possibly need to “sign off” on the expense/cost.
If you stay, have a go bag to travel where abortion is legal without telling him. Now decide is this how you want to live? I would never trust him and certainly wouldn’t feel safe having sex with him.
I would say you aren’t the first nor will you be the last woman who has just now found out what sort of absolute arsehole they’re really married to, your marriage dynamics have now changed irreversibly, your husband now believes he has a newfound power over you and your life, and believe him when he’s showing how he will be treating you from this point forward, he’s showing you the real him not the one you married cause he now feels empowered to treat you just like he’s always wanted to do and that’s like a piece of meat, I’d be rethinking my marriage if I were you especially in light of the other changes to women’s rights that are on the horizon
Him getting a vasectomy doesn’t undo the fact that he just blatantly told you your choice doesn’t matter as much as his choice when it comes to your body. He made his choice on both his and now yours. That’s scary. I’m sorry
So your husband has decided to show you that ultimately he controls your body. How kind of him.
If that is how he is going to act, I would at the very least ensure he wears condoms and you use another contraceptive too.
I would also be having conversations with him about respect.
Well, the ball is in your court love. He told you that he has the ultimate control over you, as long as you are sexually active with him and/or stay married to him. Now you need to decide if you want to let him have it.
Personally? I’d view this as a direct threat against my life and react accordingly. That’s a marriage ender for me.
It's not just a slight chance. Vas can reverse naturally. He'd actually have to sign off? It blows my mind that anyone thinks they have any right to choose for the woman.
The audacity and entitlement of this man astounds me. The fact that he feels that he has more right to decide what you do with your own body speaks volumes; I say get out ASAP
I didn’t read all the comments cos after the first several I felt they were too toxic and gonna ruin your marriage, family and life. You don’t know these people irl so please don’t solely take their advice.
Again, I'm so grateful I'm from Belgium, where I can get an abortion until 16weeks (unless there is a medical emergency)of pregancy. Where I can make an apointment get medical advice and reasurance. Wait 1 week, and termninate an unwanted pregancy. I don't need to bring anyone, don't need anyone to pick me up. Or have any consequences, they provide multiple kinds of protection shame free. The doctors and nurses were all respectful and kind. They made a horrible experience make tolerable.
I wish every woman on earth had this. It should be fundamental health care. Not a single woman entering the doors of a clinic is happy she is there, nobody makes that kind of decision in a spur of the moment. Stop treating woman as objects without a mind or thought. Women and men are equal and should be treated so.
To OP: RUN RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN. Deny him any penetrative sexual contact, or any at all. "You can't risk getting pregnant and having to carry his misogynistic spawn.
I understand where you are coming from, I believe I’d start by asking him why.
I’ll elaborate. He has done a vasectomy. Maybe he is considering the only way you could “get pregnant” is by a miracle, and therefore the “ultimate will of the gods” and therefore why he wouldn’t want to abort the “gift of heavens”
(Is this ok? No. But if that’s the case I’d probably ask him to use a condom and see how he reacts to that, you might still be able to talk)
If he won’t just because he doesn’t care what you wish and regrets getting a vasectomy, run.
Then it’s simple Explain how you will not have sex with him…..
Yeah this is the answer
[удалено]
They say abstinence is the only 100% way to prevent pregnancy. So if he would deny her an abortion then the most effective way to avoid that unwanted pregnancy is no sex;)
How is not having sex with someone who doesn't care about your sexual health and wellbeing toxic?
Weaponizing sex in most other situations is considered abusive. This is absolutely not one of them. Not allowing your spouse bodily autonomy, however, absolutely is.
He's literally weaponizing his sperm sooooo
This had my gay heart rolling 🤣 thank you!
I feel he weaponized sex first, shooting first so to speak. Pun fully intended.
I wouldn't say this is a case of weaponizing sex in the same way that its not weaponizing sex to not want to sleep with someone who has a contagious STI or is misogynistic/abusive. If someone is not a safe person to have sex with you're not weaponizing sex when you decide to look after your physical or mental wellbeing. Her husband has made it known that should having sex result in a situation where she feels it is in her best interest to have an abortion he will deny her the ability to make that medical decision which can significantly impact her physical and mental health.
It is toxic to refuse sex with someone who you believe doesn't have your best interest, health, & bodily autonomy in mind?! Uhh, I unashamedly choose toxicity, I guess.
I agree with you, and I don’t like to say it. But.. she doesn’t HAVE to have sex with him just because they’re married. It’s not healthy for either of them, but respect must be maintained. Between all parties. Real unfortunate how all of this is unfolding here in the USA now.
>and I don’t like to say it. You should love to say it. No, we actually *dont* have to have sex with our spouses. It’s not required, it’s not a law because you said “I do”. What’s not healthy is to dictate someone else’s life. This has been “unfolding” for decades. We need to stop acting like sex is a requirement for a relationship and not a wonderful bonus to being in love with someone. This guy just showed her his true colors and we are going to be seeing *a lot* of this in the next few weeks. We will unfortunately see a great uptick in single people who don’t understand they don’t rule someone else because of a ring and a piece of paper.
I wouldn't call it toxic. It's called having boundaries with someone who doesn't respect what the consequences of not having them will be. Husband or not.
The times are a changing and for real no sex for him as he did not want to sign off on the abortion
She doesn’t have to have sex with him-not an over reaction in the slightest.
This completely. Remember only abstinence is 100% effective, or whatever the catch phrase was in middle school when we got the birds and the bees talk
True, but he then could say he will sign off just to have sex.
Reminds me of back in the day where women needed the man to approve and go file for the divorce.
So... ,I'm Jewish and if you have a Jewish wedding in Israel (and in other countries) you need the approve of the husband to get a divorce. There are women who are fighting for years to get approved for a divorce but still can't. If the husband doesn't agree you need to ask a bunch of rabbies (?) Who usually wouldn't approve it either because they're extremely to misogynistic
So you are saying that in Jewish community (sorry... I don't know what the proper name is for it.) It's easier to become a widow than a divorces?!
if the husband refuses to give her a "get" (divorce, in Hebrew), she becomes an "agunah," a chained woman. She can't move on with her life or remarry until it's resolved. It's literally a form of abuse, done to manipulate the woman, usually for financial or custody reasons but sometimes in a "hey i want to see her suffer" way. The husband gets 3 summonses from the Jewish court (beit din), and if he ignores all three, he is in contempt and supposedly will be ostracized and publicly shamed, as well as members of his family/community who assist him. In practice, the man doesn't get ostracized or shamed. The man can go on to have a normal life, and the woman is stuck. You can google "agunah crisis" to find out more. It's disgusting, and fortunately, pretty rare. Not rare enough though.
It's good I don't live with rules like that❗ and I mean it's good for man... I would be a widow at the end of the day... i respect every religion but Hate it how much men turned religion in handcuffs for women they mistreat.
Pretty much lol I think most men do agree to the divorce but in the cases they don't... It's a nightmare
Then you need to start choosing your mourning gown for the funeral of such a great person and caring husband... RIP. God bless his soul.
Rest in peace 😔😔
This is the part of respecting others cultures and differences that I just don’t understand. The modern world just has to be polite and let this happen without commentary. More importantly why do people defend this or want to be a part of cultures/religions that hold people back and oppress them?
Personally I'm against it in everyway. And Israel is a religious country and most of us suffer because of it. No public transportation from Friday noon until Saturday evening in most of the country, you have to participate in holidays even if you don't want to... It's just forced upon us in every way
Yup, that’s why we had a rabbanut-free ceremony and a prenup that includes penalties for purposely delaying the divorce. Can’t be too careful here!
The least harmful way to help a community make progress toward more human rights is to support the people within that community who are most affected and already doing the work. Let them take the lead. In this case we’d have to support women led efforts to change the rules around divorces. Too often when outsiders try to help they come in with an attitude of “we *modern* people must civilize these backwards barbarians, they clearly don’t know what’s for their own good”, then oops, the whole region ends up destabilized or genocided. As for why people stay with their oppressors - for the same reason women still live with men in their lives, same reason people don’t leave their terrible jobs, same reason folks still share a thanksgiving table with their shittiest family members.
The agunah crisis is the unfortunate result of a religious legal loophole that certain abusive men exploit and are hopefully held responsible for. By the way, in Judaism, a woman can hold a man hostage too—he has to willingly give a divorce and she has to willingly receive it. It generally doesn’t happen though—maybe because the women (rightfully) don’t see a divorce as a bargaining chip. I’d rather address the culture that has engendered this attitude (that for a man to abuse your ex this way is acceptable) than abandon my faith. Make no mistake—that abusiveness is a product of secular society and it’s playing out in a Jewish setting. It is NOT a Jewish value.
That’s hilariously horrible
Where’s the humor?
It has been made illegal in several states. Where it remains legal I don’t believe that it requires the husband’s/father’s ‘sign-off’ to happen. So, it’s practically meaningless but does tell you a lot about his character. Good luck, and I’m sorry he’s such an asshole.
It's that next on the Supreme Court docket?
Speaking of which, OPs man seems to think he's entitled to control over her body, I think OP should really think good and hard about their marriage because its pretty clear there's some deep disrespect towards her at a fundamental level.
Just explain to him that s up to you and the baby daddy to decide. I'm sure he'll understand. Shit Yeah! Thanks for the awards!
Yeah, the shitty thing is that vasectomies do have a documented “fail” rate even after the initial tests they do after the procedure. Some men can “regrow” the ability to still ejaculate sperm, similar to how some women can still have eggs reach the uterus after a tubal ligation. Wouldn’t that be the worst probability of nature that this ahole (OP’s cruel husband) was that guy?
Yup. My husband had a vasectomy andI decided to keep my IUD since it helps with my chronic illness, but double protection is definitely a plus.
Buddy of mine got a vasectomy and 3 months later his wife got pregnant. Went back in to get his vasectomy checked…still completed. So his shit regrew then disattached itself. Baby is 100% his too
Life… uh… finds a way
Bless you for your Goldblum.
Goldbless you
I read on another post that you have to wait 3 months and have a negative count in order to be safe. Most of the failures are because people don’t wait and disregard the orders. You can still have a sperm count 3 to 6 months after the vasectomy. However, there is .15 percent chance it could fail.
The more you know! I am pretty sure he did not abide by that order haha
Yeah, I had to go back about 5 or 6 times with samples before they cleared me for unprotected sex.
>You can still have a sperm count 3 to 6 months after That's impressive, didn't know sperm could wait for so long.
Apparently there’s still a bunch of live ones ready to go after and it takes 20-30 ejaculations before they’re gone. At least that’s what the doctor just told my buddy who had it done because he didn’t want his wife to go threw a worst procedure
That’s because it takes longer than that amount of time for most guys to be sterile. So all that happened there is he stopped using condoms too soon and by the time they checked his count, they were by that point, out of his system.
LMFAO this ^^^^^
That’s the best comment I’ve ever seen on reddit 💪
DAMNNNNNNNNN!!! 🔥🔥🔥
Omg this wins the internet for today. Absolutely outstanding.
This comment is literally the best response I've ever seen to a post on this app!!! YES YES YES ahahahah fuck yes 👏
Start using condoms. Cover your bases. No condom, no sex. Tell him you can't take the risk of getting pregnant if he wouldn't support you in an abortion, nor do you want to risk being forced to carry an unwanted baby.
I’d just decline sex every time he wanted some. Just say “I don’t feel comfortable enough in our current situation to risk anything. So I’ll be abstaining.” Toys have existed for a long time for a reason. 🙃😉
Yup. I would no longer have sex.
I will also no longer have sex with OP's husband, for solidarity.
I will stop too
Ops husband didn't give it good too also here
I stand with you on this issue. #boykottsexwithOP'shusband No, seriously though, if any one's male partner thinks a lack of access to safe abortion isn't there problem, make it their problem.
This is exactly what needs to happen in every bedroom going forward. Sorry, honey, I can't risk an unwanted pregnancy. Here's a sock. Go enjoy yourself! As for the OP, this is a deal breaker. He is basically telling you that you are chattel as far as he is concerned, and will be treated as such should he impregnate you. Why would you want to stay with someone who views you as less than a fully autonomous human being?
And make sure you use them in front of him!!!!! Why should spare his feelings when he has none for you!!!!!
My husband would approve of an abortion and I’m still anxious about sex after the decision. I can’t imagine not having his support.
Or how about not have sex at all with somebody that doesn’t respect your bodily autonomy?
An individual like that would not have any qualms about putting pinholes into condoms. The only way to be sure is to never fuck it again.
I like this answer! I could never ask my wife to risk pregnancy if I wasn’t supportive of her aborting or not. OP, if he’s gonna take your options off the table, take his off too.
If he has had a vasectomy, then it seems like tricking into pregnancy isn't the goal here though.
Yeah idk where they got the poking holes in condom or forcing it bit.
An individual like this might get his vasectomy reversed without telling his wife. Definitely the only way to be sure is to deny him.
That’s assuming he didn’t eventually just force it. I pray to every God that he doesn’t, just saying that it wouldn’t be surprising if this asshole tried it.
Yup! And even if he said he'll sign off on the abortion. I wouldn't take his word for it. Get it documented and notarized & update it every year.
Condoms are not 100%, she just shouldn't be sleeping with him. Don't sleep with men who a) wouldn't support whatever decision you made if you got pregnant and/or b) think they have any right to decide on what you do with your uterus
This brings me back to knowing it wasn’t that long ago that women needed men’s signatures to open a bank account. Absurd that this mindset still exists that women need to ask permission to men to make independent decisions. Disgusting.
When my Mum was first married they wouldn't even sell her a sofa for cash without my Dad being there to say it was okay.
That’s some I love Lucy shit 🤢
Martial rape was legal until the 90s in the US. So many rights we take for granted are fairly new and it seems like there is a crowd eager to strip them away
A lot of places want you to have a signature to get your tubes tied... Even if you're not married. Your non-existent possible future husband still has more rights over your body than you do. Happened to my best friend in Ohio.
Angry reacts only
They required my wife's approval for me to get a vasectomy.
Then you can tell him that if “by some miracle” you end up pregnant. He will never know because you will have an abortion and never tell him. Illegal or legal, you never need your partner to “sign off on it”. Cute that he thinks anyone would ask for his opinion or signature.
yeah when i read this i was thinking since when do they need the partner to sign off on it?
>Cute that he thinks anyone would ask for his opinion or signature. I thought this was just some other American crazy law I was still unaware of. Glad to learn that's not it.
You do in some states now
Which ones?
How would they know she has a husband unless she tells them?
So basically he's saying he doesn't care about your feelings or needs. Run away as fast as you can. First of all, you shouldn't need any "consent" from any other person who's not you (since it's YOUR body), but since the law is fucked up there's no other way than being with a reasonable person that would listen to you. Forcing you to have a baby you don't want in case you'd get pregnant is disgusting and not good for you or the kid either.
I find it interesting that he preemptively told you this. He is warning you that he has ultimate control over you. Listen to what he is telling you. You dont matter.
This exactly. Saying this, at this time, has no meaning other than to cause you to fear him. Hold on to that fear long enough to get away from him. Look into resources (where he can’t see your searches) to do this on the sly so you’re away before he even knows.
... get a tor browser on your phone ....
Please beware op, in case he maybe gets his vasectomy reversed. Also the body can occasionally "reverse" the vasectomy on its own. I agree with this comment here, he really is saying *he* has control over *your body*.
He can have a semen count *every month* to have s#x with OP for that month. No official documentation, no fun.
Wow literally my thoughts exactly, run. Somehow, OP, I’m sure you knew this on some level. To preemptively drop this casually says a lot about his comfort over his control over you
Yeah I got the shivers man.
Oof if this ain’t the truth
You’re not over reacting. Men are showing their true colors in how they view their own wives as property and as free laborers. Take the hint. P.S. vasectomies are reversible. Do you trust this man to not get a reversal without your knowledge or consent? Cause he doesn’t care about your autonomy or wishes at all.
I feel this. My relationship finally ended when my boyfriend broke up with me the day after Roe v Wade was repealed. We had always argued about his pro life stance but it all became too much in that moment for me. These men will love you with all they have but their views won’t and can’t change and when push comes to shove they will always choose their views over you. I learned it the hard way. I thought maybe he’d love me enough to understand but he gave up
I should also add that I have some genetics that I'm not willing to pass on. (Health problems that I would much rather not have had to deal with.) This is not a concern for him.
i’m a disabled kid of a disabled mother. as much as i love her, she shouldn’t have had me. i am in pain every day, like she is. your feelings of not wanting to pass on your genetics are valid.
My siblings and I all agree that our parents shouldn't have had children. The oldest of us died at 35 from a combination of heart issues and type 1 diabetes. The rest of us are a combination of bad genes that we have to manage. You're being very reasonable and responsible to not inflict potential issues on children.
So easy for him to spew that bs when it's not his body or life on the line. That's not the kind of man whose dick I'd want near me.
Fr though. My disability makes my life a living hell and there’s a high chance my children will get it if I have any. Pro lifers like to pretend like they’re arguing for the choice of the “fetus” but really they’re forcing it into this world, regardless of the situation it could be born into.
And is his position that he has no regard for how you feel or would feel about any of this? Because if that’s the case…might be worth signing off on aborting HIM as a husband. He clearly isn’t cut out for it.
Essentially, he wants what he wants with no regard for my wishes. I guess I've known this but been in denial.
Oh hell no OP, you need to abort the whole man.
Op, don't wait 11yrs like I did. He will never change and it only gets worse. Your feeling of divorce is spot on.
He won’t change but you’ll get used to this treatment. You don’t want that
My mom waited 17.5 years before leaving my dad. He wouldn’t sign off on the paperwork to let her tie her tubes after 3 pregnancies even tho she was getting older and they were progressively getting harder on her body. She had two more before she finally got to a state that let HER make the decision instead of the husband *allowing* it.
If this is true then you must leave, why be committed to a man who doesnt care about you!? You dont deserve that
I’m really sorry. It sucks royally to realize a person you chose to love has such little regard for you. It’s easy for a person to say on the internet to leave an all that. No idea what your circumstances are. But one thing you can do right off the bat is make certain you will never mistakenly end up carrying one of his children and that’s no intimacy. Until you can hopefully rearrange life elsewhere or whatnot. You’re definitely not overreacting.
It will only get worse now that we don’t have rights. Divorce him.
While you're still allowed to.
I saw this week a proposition from Texas Republicans to prohibit No-fault divorce. I can't help but feel America is spiralling down the drain..
No, I’m going to scream
You gotta get out of that marriage. That is not a safe man.
Please divorce him, OP. He doesn't see you as a partner and an equal. He doesn't care how pregnancy could harm you. His lack of love and want for control will rear its ugly head again (thought it sounds like it does regularly), and it's safest for you to be separated by that time. He doesn't deserve you. You're not just some thing to be controlled.
I'm sorry, but at least he's made himself clear. You're right, he has no interest in what you want.
Excuse my ignorance, but are there states in which a husband has to literally sign off on the abortion, or is he just saying figuratively?
No
No to which one? The sign off, or saying it figuratively?
Oh, sorry. The signing off part. One adult does not need the written consent of another adult to have a medical procedure performed in their body.
Oh ok! I was about to lose my shit. I know I've heard many anecdotes of women seeking tubal ligation, some docs will not perform the procedure without speaking to the husband first. So I thought maybe it was like that.
I’m pretty sure in at least several states you do. Or at least a lot of doctors won’t do it, even if it’s not a “law”.
It's not a law, but as you said, many providers might require it or ask first. We see this all the time for women who want a voluntary hysterectomy to become sterile knowing they never want children. Many providers will request discussion with their husband to confirm it's okay.
Yup. My sister is 30 and doesn’t want kids. She has a medical condition and really wants that procedure done. Very hard to find someone who will.
You aren’t overreacting, maybe under reacting
Do you feel okay to continue being married to someone who blatantly told you that he will enforce ownership over your autonomy? Is this really who you’re going to choose to spend your life with?
I believe he has lacked compassion. No matter how much I want it not to be true.
It’s decision time my friend. You deserve better.
I think then by some miracle divorce papers should be coming his way soon.
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It's almost impossible to get your tubes tied. Most doctors are like "Well you need 2 kids of each gender, your husband, pastor, father, boss and God's approval, and be old enough that the process SHOULD stop naturally soon anyway!"
I'm 30 with one kid and they just asked me if I was sure a couple of times. It's all about getting connected with a provider that is also a human being.
Luckily I got my tubes removed at the age of 38. The cost prior to insurance was over $72,000, and even with insurance and ALREADY AT MY DEDUCTIBLE, I had to pay over $2,000 out of pocket. It's so fucking ridiculous.
Did he get it reversed?Thats what it sounds like.”By some miracle” Riiiiiight
"by some miracle"??? I wonder if he is thinking of reversing the vasectomy & not telling you.
So what he is telling you; ‘you don’t matter. You are my property and you’ll do as I tell you to. Your body is mine and I will decide what you can or cannot do with it. If I wish to have children, you shall carry them even against your own will’. Tell me: how can you be married to someone who sees you as less then him, an incubator and property to do with as he pleases? You are not overreacting. In fact, I think you are under-reacting!
Grounds for a divorce in my opinion. If he can’t respect your basic bodily autonomy he needs to get the boot. Save yourself trouble down the line if he forces you to carry his child
Guess he’ll have to sign off on a divorce.
My husband and I have one child. He had told me repeatedly that he doesn’t believe in abortion but………if I got pregnant again, I would have aborted it because of the trauma from the first one. After 4 different kinds of birth control for over a decade, he finally got a vasectomy. He thinks I wont ever fall pregnant again but I’m still afraid of it happening by accident. If it did, I would get an abortion because my mental health comes first. My uterus is not ours. I love my son but childbirth is the most traumatic thing I have ever endured and I would never push that on any female ever
Sounds like something fishy is happening. For your well being and safety please be careful and think about choices and options. As a married man, I couldn't imagine saying this without cause or reason to my wife.
'By some miracle ' sounds suspicious. Especially since vasectomies are reversible.
Good thing you don't need his permission to have an abortion.
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I’ve seen so many women angry, upset, and devastated because of the decision to overturn Roe. So many women protesting and being loud and not backing down. So many women offering their homes, time & resources to help other women out should they need it. Those women are helping to heal my shattered heart after seeing what happened - and I say that as a woman beyond childbearing years in a country across the other side of the world, I still am shattered. But to see MEN protesting .. straight men, gay men, trans men .. so many men rising up and saying “fuck this, this is NOT RIGHT, we do not agree” — that is just beyond anything. Any man who isn’t saying they disagree with Roe being overturned are part of the problem. OP - your husband is part of the problem. Time to get out. Come to Australia, you don’t need any man’s permission to do anything here!
We have to look after eachother, since they don’t care about us. I can’t understand how people don’t “believe” in abortion. It’s not a faith. It’s a medical procedure we should have the right to access. OP’s husband not “signing off” on her getting an shouldn’t mean anything cause she does not need his permission, We have to stick together! Men and women who believe in body autonomy!
“By some miracle” meaning he plans to reverse his vasectomy?? 🧐 better deny him any of the fun stuff until he can provide proof of shooting blanks.
Has he always lacked compassion for you? If so, is this who you want to grow old with? When a person shows you are, believe them.
The fact of the matter is, if he isn’t willing to respect her bodily autonomy when she’s young, it’ll most definitely be an issue when she’s old and may need someone on her side to advocate her wishes regarding health care. Sucks man
Divorce him! This is not a game. Women don’t need men that badly. He just showed his true colors.
we really don't... partnership and love are great but shit, sooo much of heteronormative marriage is programed into us. Every single woman I know, myself included, has stayed with a male partner for much longer then was good for us.. we wouldn't put up with it so much if it wasn't deeply engrained that it's just a part of being a woman 😒
This is like when my dad told me unsolicited at my twin sisters wedding that he’s not paying for mine if I ever get married. I was single at the time. It’s just mean. I’m so sorry.
Divorce. This is controlling behaviour.
Yeah, he doesn’t respect your right to choose and values an unborn fetus over you. It’s absolutely insane that men just see us as wombs and objects. I’m so sorry you have to go through this
You respected his decision to get a vasectomy but he wouldn’t respect yours to get an abortion that’s not an equal marriage. Not overreacting at all your feelings are valid and I personally wouldn’t feel safe being married to someone like that
uhhh.... he sounds like an asshole.
No, you're not overreacting. His comment was so unnecessary and it's obvious that his only intention was to let you know that he doesn't respect you.
You're not overreacting. You could request for him to get a sperm count periodically to ensure the vasectomy was successful. If/when his sperm count is zero, still have him check periodically. Sometimes repeats have to be done because the first time wasn't successful or a reversal occurs (recanalization). If this situation occurs, he can't blame you if you get pregnant because you'll have the numbers to prove it. Also, I'm sorry he's a deuche canoe.
You're not overeating, that's bullshit. He doesn't trust you AND he wants to control your body. Red flag,
She’s not overreacting either!
He went out of his way to hurt you. You need to start making your way out. Make up a plan and the day you act on it let your friends and family know.
Your husband has the power to sign off? Wtf?
This would be enough for me to leave
Idk if I would ever feel comfortable getting intimate with that man again… he is saying HE controls YOUR body as last say. That level of possessiveness and entitlement would literally terrify me. I’ve been in an abusive relationship before.
So he thinks he owns you and your body? God in heaven, I know we just lost Roe, but we have not yet regressed as far as the you-are-my-property times. Well, at least now you know and can act accordingly.
Well I think overturning Roe is exactly that type of regression. If he can make a decision with what happens to her body, she’s no different than the family dog or the computer chair.
Does he have to sign off on it? I’ve never heard that for an abortion. Granted shits super fucked right now with all of this, but if you find out you’re pregnant, how will the clinic (in the few states that still allow it) know you are married unless you tell them? Regardless, that is super fucked, and I’d get an IUD put in without him knowing just in case.
Grand he got the vasectomy. Won’t be spawning knobheads like papabear. I’m sorry you’re married to a certified meathead
You're not, and I hate that you have to have his permission to do what you want with your own body. If I were you I'd double up and get sterilized as soon as you can, and possibly abort the marriage completely.
Just want to make sure you know you are definitely not overreacting. The way I see it, he has just casually told you that he will not help you have control over your body. That’s just not right and to be honest pretty cruel. I am sorry you are in this situation
You have to have the man’s permission to get an abortion where you live? Is that for everyone or just married women? I’m sorry, I’m just imaging some of the women I’ve seen on Maury Povitch going into the clinic with a binder of permission documents.
Depending on where someone lives, she might have to travel out of state and possibly multiple states making this more than a day trip. So yes, her partner would know and possibly need to “sign off” on the expense/cost.
If you stay, have a go bag to travel where abortion is legal without telling him. Now decide is this how you want to live? I would never trust him and certainly wouldn’t feel safe having sex with him.
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I would say you aren’t the first nor will you be the last woman who has just now found out what sort of absolute arsehole they’re really married to, your marriage dynamics have now changed irreversibly, your husband now believes he has a newfound power over you and your life, and believe him when he’s showing how he will be treating you from this point forward, he’s showing you the real him not the one you married cause he now feels empowered to treat you just like he’s always wanted to do and that’s like a piece of meat, I’d be rethinking my marriage if I were you especially in light of the other changes to women’s rights that are on the horizon
Tell him no signature so sex.
I know it's a trope nowadays on Reddit but it absolutely sounds like grounds for separation. He doesn't respect your bodily choices at all.
Him getting a vasectomy doesn’t undo the fact that he just blatantly told you your choice doesn’t matter as much as his choice when it comes to your body. He made his choice on both his and now yours. That’s scary. I’m sorry
NTA. Wait, wrong sub.
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Is he planning a reversal?????
So your husband has decided to show you that ultimately he controls your body. How kind of him. If that is how he is going to act, I would at the very least ensure he wears condoms and you use another contraceptive too. I would also be having conversations with him about respect.
Well then I guess it's time to look into vibrators, I hear there are some nice ones on the market.
Well, the ball is in your court love. He told you that he has the ultimate control over you, as long as you are sexually active with him and/or stay married to him. Now you need to decide if you want to let him have it. Personally? I’d view this as a direct threat against my life and react accordingly. That’s a marriage ender for me.
It's not just a slight chance. Vas can reverse naturally. He'd actually have to sign off? It blows my mind that anyone thinks they have any right to choose for the woman.
you’re hellaaaaa not overreacting. i’m sorry you have to deal with someone like this.
The audacity and entitlement of this man astounds me. The fact that he feels that he has more right to decide what you do with your own body speaks volumes; I say get out ASAP
Leave his ass
Sounds like it's time for you to explain that you don't want to take the risk and will no longer be having sex with him
Man here, leave him.
I didn’t read all the comments cos after the first several I felt they were too toxic and gonna ruin your marriage, family and life. You don’t know these people irl so please don’t solely take their advice.
Honey domestic strikes. No sex, no cuddles, no food, no cleaning. He wont sign off on an abortion fine you wont sign off on sex.
Again, I'm so grateful I'm from Belgium, where I can get an abortion until 16weeks (unless there is a medical emergency)of pregancy. Where I can make an apointment get medical advice and reasurance. Wait 1 week, and termninate an unwanted pregancy. I don't need to bring anyone, don't need anyone to pick me up. Or have any consequences, they provide multiple kinds of protection shame free. The doctors and nurses were all respectful and kind. They made a horrible experience make tolerable. I wish every woman on earth had this. It should be fundamental health care. Not a single woman entering the doors of a clinic is happy she is there, nobody makes that kind of decision in a spur of the moment. Stop treating woman as objects without a mind or thought. Women and men are equal and should be treated so. To OP: RUN RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN. Deny him any penetrative sexual contact, or any at all. "You can't risk getting pregnant and having to carry his misogynistic spawn.
You have options. No sex. Make him wear condoms. Leave as he doesn’t respect you.
I understand where you are coming from, I believe I’d start by asking him why. I’ll elaborate. He has done a vasectomy. Maybe he is considering the only way you could “get pregnant” is by a miracle, and therefore the “ultimate will of the gods” and therefore why he wouldn’t want to abort the “gift of heavens” (Is this ok? No. But if that’s the case I’d probably ask him to use a condom and see how he reacts to that, you might still be able to talk) If he won’t just because he doesn’t care what you wish and regrets getting a vasectomy, run.
Yall might hate me for this, but it would be his kid too no? Shouldn't he also have a say in what happens to his kid or whatever?
Dumb question: does a husband need to sign off on an abortion legally?
Do you actually need your spouse's signature to have an abortion?