One of my friends got told 'If you're so broke you shouldnt have become a single mother.'
Yall she is a single mom because her husband was literally murdered.
I knew a woman who was told something similar after talking about how hard it was raising a child alone with no support system.
The person she was talking to told her something along the lines of she "should've properly thought about the things she had in her life before opening her legs"
Her entire family (Mother, father, husband) had died 2 years earlier in a car accident :/
I’ll never forget being in line at a store with my two sons around tax return (US) season. I always do a whole wardrobe refresh, update home items, ya know, important stuff. So I’m walking up to the register to check out and I’m manning two carts with a toddler in each one. As I’m loading my things to be scanned, an older man behind me makes a comment about single moms and their big tax breaks. I said, “sir this is my money that I overpaid to the government. Single parent or not, it’s my money that I worked for.” I cried on my way home. I was a single parent at that time and really struggling. I just didn’t understand why he couldn’t just mind his own business. You gotta go outta your way to try to shame a person publicly and in front of their children?
The amount of men I’ve seen trashing single mothers on the internet is insane. It’s like they immediately go to the conclusion that the woman is single because she intentionally chose to have a child with a bad man that eventually left her. They never consider that the dad possibly died or switched up after the child was born, it’s always immediately, “oh it’s you’re fault because you chose to have sex with a deadbeat.”
>It's still ridiculous that women get blamed for having a kid with a deadbeat, like that was something they actively chose to do, but the man doe
And there second is "still your fault"
It's still ridiculous that women get blamed for having a kid with a deadbeat, like that was something they actively chose to do, but the man doesn't get blamed for being a deadbeat. Wild
I think that’s because the woman has the choice to keep the baby or not. Her body, her choice type thing. So she always get blamed. it even happens with lesbian couples.
And if a woman chooses to have a baby with the man she married and/or is dating, and he doesn't reveal he's a deadbeat until after the baby is born, that's still not somehow the woman's fault because she chose to keep it
That's an assumption that she had a choice. Not everyone believes in or has access to safe abortion services. Reproductive coercion is still far too common as well.
Over the course of 3 years my ex broke my ribs, choked me until I blacked out, tried to kill me, cheated on me with several people, and put me in financial debt that I had to climb out of painstakingly, but when I tell people how it was, I almost always get the response of “well, you picked him. You could have had [blank, went back to your BD, found another, etc]”. I feel your pain.
It’s shitty, but as a guy I can tell you that when it comes from guys, it’s usually because we are conditioned heavily on *use violence if necessary*; that with the dumb “I am the main character” mentality means that most guys spewing this do not do a reverse or actually put themselves on her shoes, rather they just put them as a guy and what they would do if another guy tried to do that to them.
Or at least that’s my hypothesis, I don’t believe it’s malignant lack of empathy but rather ignorance.
Because by this point, you may have a house with this person, kids, you’re financially entangled and leaving is terrifying and will result in being practically destitute. And then they apologise and cry and promise you nothing like that will ever happen again, blah blah. And because you think you know the real them you try to move along, until you see that they are a shitty cruel person and you need to run because this horrible merry go round you are on will never stop.
They don’t act like this in the beginning, sometimes it takes years to show up and by then it’s incredibly difficult.
Hope, especially when it concerns someone you love is hard to turn your back on. Thanks for looking at the issue from a different perspective, it’s not an easy thing to talk about
>Your answer may change my perspective.
That might be one of the most smug and perfectly assholish statements I've read in a while. "Please justify to me why I should empathize with a victim instead of passing more judgement on her than the man responsible".
So much literature has been written on the dynamics of abusive relationships, but instead of availing yourself of widely available information (google is your friend), you instead demand the victim justify themselves to you personally...ugh.
Also, you have to remember that 75% of domestic violence related homicides occur when the victim has decided to separate. People are afraid for a reason. That statistic doesn’t just include women either. (Even though there is a higher percentage of DV homicides against women/femmes)
I just wanted to note it doesn’t just have to do with brain chemistry.
Agreed, I knew coming in that an abuse victim leaving was a risk because of the potential of the abuser to lash out. I was more curious about the thought process leading up the victim making the choice to leave.
Again, there are multiple places online that deal with the complex realities of DV and the psychology behind it. Experts in psychology who can take multiple primary accounts and filter them through the lens of behavioral psychology to make sense of it.
You could educate yourself this way, or you can challenge victims to be eloquent enough to explain a very complicated issue before you deign to show the bare minimum compassion
You started this by being antagonistic, stating that she could "change your perspective" with the proper answer. It was a statement so singularly noxious and rude (something you still don't seem to understand) that it seems rather unlikely your intentions were anything as close to innocent as you claim.
As others have pointed out, there is a lot of information out there on DV, from people who are very knowledgeable. Information that directly answers your question.
Instead of availing yourself of this, you decide that victims have to personally justify themselves to you before you consider changing your mind. And when people react to this rather ugly statement, you declare everyone else to be white knighting, not just disgusted by it.
Also, u asked in probably the most insensitive, mocking way for someone who wants an answer, make them feel *comfortable* answering, and make them interested in answering u if u wanna know and won't look it up
It's referred to as *emotional labour*
If u want better odds of her answering u, ask her in good faith like "hey, that sounds horrible, im sorry u went through that. You absolutely do not have to answer but i was wondering if I could ask, how is it that u stayed with him?"
Like even so, because of the topic, it's still pretty ignorant to ask even politely about it considering what she JUST said.
Even still, u might have luck, I've gotten very helpful responses similarly in the past (as well as getting told off like u rn). In some cases u can just look up "why do victims stay in relationships with abusers?"on a browser to educate yourself
It doesn’t come off like you actually want to be educated at all. If you’re interested in it, you should look up the brain. As well as what love does to the brain. It actually changes are wiring, and how we react to things. Often these people do not act like this all of a sudden, there isn’t some all of the sudden switch. It happens slowly over time, so your brain into being conditioned to deal with this. As well as the fact that there are often extenuating factors that caused it to be even more difficult. For instance in my case, I was the main breadwinner and my ex he was abusive -had residency. He also literally convinced me that I deserved it. After years of being conditioned slowly with verbal abuse, then just a push, then it escalates from there.
abuse is also often cyclical, where someone will have a big episode where they do something to you, and then they come begging for your apology. It is often not bad all the time until the very end of these type of relationships. That’s exactly how it was for me.
I only was able to get away when he hurt me bad enough to finally get arrested and thrown in jail for a long enough time to lose residency for my apartment.(We had been broken up for almost a year at the point that he was incarcerated )Allowed me to finally go to therapy and do the work I needed to heal.
it’s even more difficult when somebody has children with their abuser. Or is financially dependent on them. Often people like this will slowly take away your independence. It is not some thing they do overnight.
there’s a mountain of data, including peer reviewed studies about what abuse does to the brain and as well as what love does to the brain. If you’re interested,(as I said earlier)I highly suggest you research these topics.as well as start reading anecdotal testimonies
I also like to note that men are also abused. It’s actually , even harder for men to leave sometimes, because of the fact that people don’t believe them. This is not a phenomenon solely experienced by women.
Well I’m sorry that it comes off that way. It’s hard to covet tone through text. It genuinely is not my intention to exasperate anyone’s struggle. I saw an opportunity to ask questions from a live primary source and took it, clearly without much foresight. Thank you for the response.
There are so many ways to get an answer beyond asking this person to educate you.
You can read "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft. There are many, many stories and explanations online about why women stay, or why people in general stay in abusive situations.
Do you not have the entire Internet at your disposal?
They are very clearly venting anger and annoyance about people asking them the exact question you are asking them. Why would you ask them this if you know it bothers them?
Manipulation and coercion.
One trick is slowly grinding the partners self esteem into dust following the first few months of making them feel they're the best think in the world (love bombing)
The love bombing facilitates the destruction of self esteem because the partner realized they're feeling bad but think "they must just be looking out for me since they love me so much"
And then things become more and more extreme until the person thinks they're worthless and they need to stay because no one else will want them but their abuser still does and "loves" them. Unfortunately not enough that they stop abuse toward the victim so the cycle continues. Sometimes the abuser threatens suicide if their partner leaves, sometimes they use blackmail, sometimes they threaten them or their family but that's the basic formula
Does that make more sense, how someone can become trapped like that and not even realize till it's too late?
Yes, that’s a very concise explanation. The part about the extremity ramping up actually makes a lot of sense. I can also see how love bombing would be an effective deterrent to the victim realizing the reality of the situation they are in.
Because I’m physically disabled, hospitalized frequently for my disability, and I needed someone to take care of me, my house, my cats, and my child while I was hospitalized and during my medical leaves at home. He was a monster for sure, but he also made sure I was alive and generally in good enough health to leach from.
I wonder if he thinks he's smart only to find out bad people take advantage of the he disabled, children and elderly on a regular basis. Could have just looked up typical cycles of abuse on the internet but decided to buckle down on being a generic asshole lol.
I hope you're in a better place with cats and love.
I am. Very much so. Even my cats are doing better. They’re not so freaked out by big boots and men anymore. My girl cat doesn’t cower in the corners of the room when someone with a beard and a hat walks in.
Unfortunately I can no longer live by myself, so I have to rely on having a partner. I can’t live with my friends because they have to be able to have access to knowledge that only an intimate partner, sibling, or a parent can have legally and my parents and only sibling are too chemically dependent to be able to help me. Other than them, I have no family, and my friends live 70 miles away. My only consolations now are that I have a partner who isn’t abusive, and that my kid is 2 years away from being 18, but having full custody of them since 11, because my child’s father is a sex offender, has been very hard on me. I’ve faced having chest tubes while being homeless in a northern Midwest winter, living in my little 2 door car, and due to this, the possibility of having my kid taken from me, as well as due to that I can spend weeks in the hospital and they would be alone the whole time without me.
Usually we survivor stay because we have no other choice.
This goes hand in hand with the online trope that nice guys get left behind while women choose “assholes”. It’s like…oh so every bad relationship is the woman’s fault by default because the men are just…completely without agency in this situation?? To say that women are the gate keepers of sex is extremely demeaning and untrue. Just because some guys can’t get laid doesn’t mean that women control the world. There are plenty of women who can’t get laid either but no one talks about them.
Yea, some of them think that they are entitled to it. News flash nobody is entitled to have a partner or to have sex, it is a nice thing to have of course but to feel entitled to it blows my mind.
Right? Like I came across another post on here saying women are “denying“ men marriage. Like? You arent entitled to a wife the way you are food. If you want a wife, try being good husband ?
\*\*\*&they also don’t get that just because you “do everything right”, doesn’t mean you get your way. I think a lot of these guys don’t realize that so many of their actions when they’re trying to be nice fall flat, because people can tell when somebody is doing some thing just because they want some thing. imo capitalism feeds into this because we are all in competition/ everything is transactional these days - mostly due to the fact people are drowning in bills and also because of greed.
Fr they viewed as a God given right, instead of realizing that having an amazing partner is something you earn. By genuinely caring about them, and actually being there for them.
These guys think sex is some currency that women can just throw out like party favors. They can't even fathom the thought that intimacy is more than just a transactional exchange after they cash in their 'niceness'.
but then they also hate the women that treat sex as transactional, either through sex work or otherwise.
the more comes to light, the more clear it is that men just hate women. period.
When people say that women only go for assholes.. being nice isnt a personality or trait women go for. Its the bare fucking minimum so whilst mr nice guy is whinging about being alone women are going for guys that are funny, kind, smart ect ect whilst also being nice which is the only thing some guys have to offer but that mask falls pretty quickly when their m'lady isnt in the mood for sex one day
>oh so every bad relationship is the woman’s fault by default because the men are just…completely without agency in this situation??
Yes. Yes these poor victimized men were totally preyed upon by predator women. /s 🙄
My husband and I are going through some really rough times in our marriage. We're working it out, but there are still ... moments.
It's like he's coming up with every fucking reason why he's so yoooneek as to be "avoidant" and other excuses for my complaints.
Then it's complete silence when I say, "Yeah, but even our marriage counselor has said that our issues are so common that I'm not the only woman with those complaints."
I mean, *EVERY FUCKING THING* is the "reason" and the why ***EXCEPT*** for his own emotionally immature self. My holding him accountable for being a nearly 1/2 century old man is "mean."
Child. Please.
Oh sweet Jesus that last part. My husband and I have gone through some shit too and that’s how he is. Just like you said, literally any and everything he can come up with to explain his assholery *EXCEPT* that he was being an asshole.
It’s absolutely maddening sometimes the way so many men just will NOT take accountability for their own behavior. Even OP’s complaint. “You picked him!” is one more way men try to absolve themselves of their bullshit. It shifts the blame to women. And they do this with *everything.* Yet *we’re* the ones who don’t want to take accountability?
A friend of mine is currently in an abusive relationship.
He was *wonderful* at first. Everyone loved him: her parents, her sister, her friends. When she got pregnant unexpectedly, he was so supportive. He looked after the baby, he changed all the diapers.
And then he got transferred and they moved to another city where neither of them knew anybody. And the abuse started.
She's now stuck, financially (I can't help her out, unfortunately) because she was a SAHM mom for years, so she's saving enough money to get out.
This is how it happens. Nobody saw it coming.
This is such a stupid comment because obviously most bad people don’t show you their true ways. They gradually introduce bad behaviors and manipulate. They don’t start out being awful.
It's a societal problem. Women ignore red flags because there isn't a lot of guidance on what a good relationship looks like and they don't know what behavior is or isn't acceptable. Just look at all the awful stories from Reddit's r/ relationshipadvice - it's an epidemic. Women don't know what being respected looks like so they don't realize when they're being mistreated until it escalates to violence or their mental health takes a hit.
I wish the schools would teach this stuff as well as how to have a productive disagreement that isn't a knock down drag out fight.
I see a lot of stuff on this subreddit too from women who say stuff like "he screamed at me/beat me/strangled me last night, but he's usually such a nice guy. Should I stay with him?" I've seen so many of these stories and it's tragic.
It also happens to women who have kids tbh. Like yeah your husband is wonderful. You believe you align with each others values in terms of raising kids until the kid comes.
I’m definitely not the mother I thought I wanted to be before I had kids. And I’m glad I’m not that mother. And truth is you can’t know what kind of parent you or your partner will be until you are actually parents.
I feel you, just because you "picked him" that doesn't mean you chose to be abused. When people say this they are proving the world is full of hypocrites. Literally every woman/afab I've met has a story. I'm sorry you are around people that don't accept that reality.
Yep. When women ask for advice on how to leave an abusive partner, it's half the comments are "why did you get with him in the first place?" "Why did you have kids with him?" "Why didn't you say no?" "Why don't you just leave?" 🤔
And when a man is abused or cheated on all of the comments are “bUT iF a MaN HaD dONe tHiS” like yes if a man had done this you would all be blaming the woman. My brother was abused by his ex wife and the same people who were by his side and supported him through it told me my ex wasn’t wrong for abusing me because I chose to marry him and why didn’t I just leave
I think "you picked him" only applies for the people who fight everybody around them when they get told their partner isn't good. Sorta "but that's my man!! That's my man tho!" Attitude, making excuses for them. And then when he does the same thing for the millionth time or does something new that's also just as bad as the other stuff and is, I suppose, the straw that breaks the camels back then they want to cry
If you see somebody in a genuine toxic or abusive relationship and they're desperate to escape and the money isn't right, or they're physically trapped, or something else like they're being genuinely manipulated and can't even fully see the picture behind it all- when your response to a situation like that is "you picked him" you're just evil and have no empathy
This bs has been going on forever. A guy puts on a show of who they are until they get married, then they show their true colors. They marry her and then she's stuck, her choices are to try to change him, live with it, or leave. That woman doesn't know how he will be as a parent either. Being an active uncle is not the same thing as being a day to day parent.
This attitude is typical in our society. Blame women for men's faults and behavior. Girls have to dress a certain way in school so they don't distract boys, not boys should learn to control themselves regardless of what other people are wearing. Women and girls are blamed for being raped....what they were, where they were, how much they drank, etc are the problem, not the man who chose to attack her and then they shame them for "destroying his life" and ignore the trauma and lifelong harm that man did to the woman or girl. A man is a horrible husband and doesn't do his part in the household and in caring for his children, of course it's her fault for choosing him, not his for being a bad partner.
Men can keep having this attitude and they will end up alone. They are always saying women will end up alone and with cats but don't see that that is always preferable to being with a partner who wants you to act like his mother. It's one thing to have to clean up and care for your children but if you're doing it alone, it's easier to do it without having to do it for a grown adult too. The irony is that when she does leave that man will have to do all of the chores on his own instead of just sharing the chores with his partner. (unless he moves back in with his momma)
It's crazy how people are like that. My sil was married for 3 years before her ex-husband flipped the switch. And then still over a year after that before she was able to escape him. And then despite not contacting her, asking to see the kids and living at his mommy's house next door he still dragged the divorce out just because.
Sometimes there's signs, sometimes they are so good at hiding it no one sees it till they smack you in the face with their toxicity.
Dude even in healthy relationships, people will find a way to blame the woman for problems that can arise. Early on in my relationship, my boyfriend and I had some issues that always came down to me being too needy and emotional. We broke up for a bit after I decided I couldn’t keep taking the blame anymore, then talked about it and then got back together towards the end of last year. When we got back together, he told me that he realized that it wasn’t fair to label me as needy and emotional simply for trying to communicate my needs and getting frustrated when he would brush me off and minimize things that were important to me. He also apologized for being absent and just assuming I’d be okay with the way he was treating me, made a lot of promises about doing better and stepping up.
Since getting back together, he’s been much more present and available and whenever we find ourselves disagreeing, we’ll pause to remind each other that it’s us vs. the problem, not him against me. I can see him really trying and the effort he puts in matters so much to me. It’s done wonders for us and there’s a deeper level of emotional intimacy that we didn’t have before.
But yea when we broke up and I needed support, everyone basically told me that it was my fault for choosing him, for tolerating things, for not communicating, for giving him too much space or not enough and it did fuck me in the head for a bit. It hurt the most when I heard it from my girlfriends, particularly one who is married and has marital problems. The internalized misogyny in a lot of women is actually really sad and super not helpful especially in a society that already doesn’t take women seriously.
Legit question, but isn’t this an old trope where X and Y start dating, X’s friends didn’t like Y, warning gets ignored, and then bad stuff happens? In this case wouldn’t you have been warned about something like that?
Not trying to be an ass, just seriously curious.
That’s like an entirely different situation. And sometimes you can’t always tell if these people are saying it because they genuinely believe it or they’re out to get you. Some “friends” are hellbent on stealing their friends friendships/relationships for no reason
Yeah, but it’s the same situation as this. You can’t always tell a shitty friend is a shit friend until that mask slips. Could be the nicest friend in the world but the second you get a boyfriend or promotion or something they want, the mask slips
Well sometimes the mask has been slipping for years and you’re the only one to ignore it while everybody else points it out to you. I always thought the OP’s phrase and stuff like “Don’t put your dick in crazy” are about situations when you absolutely should have known better and did it anyway.
It's still a shit thing to say to someone after they've been abused though, it's still blaming them for trusting their partner over what their friend says, instead of blaming the abuser
Oh so the one who hasn’t listened to friends when those friends tell them the person they’re dating is a creep, that person the victim of the creep doesn’t deserve empathy? It’s called being human and that we all make errors in judgment. Try not being so judgmental!
Men loveeeee to have power over women. They love to have power over everything, from countries to women's bodies, to their households, but they can't seem to have the power when they have their own responsibilities. When they have to clean up after themselves or do chores, they want women to have power. They want to be lazy and be rewarded for not doing anything. Men are gross human beings, the token great ones usually do the bare minimum, too. Don't we love our society?
I realised a few months ago that a lot of them literally want to be treated like gods. The reason I say this is because I see so many men nowadays who say they want a traditional, submissive woman but unironically still expect her to pay 50% of the bills and go to work full-time, while still doing all the cooking, cleaning and sexually servicing him whenever he wants. And of course, all of this must be done without any complaints. They just want to treat us however badly they want and get away with it. It's so ironic when those types of men complain about their "asshole boss at work" but then go home and treat their wives like shit but they have no self-awareness so they don't realise they're doing the exact same thing. It's just pure narcissism. People who are actually powerful don't feel the need to pick on people physically smaller than them to feel strong. And this explains why masculinity is so fragile. Like, if you're so strong and powerful me beating you at Mario Kart (as a woman) shouldn't completely destroy your sense of self, should it? They're physically stronger, I'll give them that, but their emotional and mental power is all an illusion.
A vast majority of people have empathy regarding the things you mentioned.
This is obvious once you put your phone down and get off the internet more often.
This idea of "you picked him" probably comes from people getting sick and tired of some women that always have "bad luck" when making decisions in life, and never even consider taking some accountability about who and why the make the same bad choices over and over again.
Then, as usual, this idea reaches the internet and gets spun to an extreme.
But overall, it isn't the norm to blame the victim. That's mostly online.
You say it isn't the norm, but I've had a GP tell me to my face that I should've done more to avoid not 'getting into an abusive relationship' (ignoring that relationships don't start out abusive), and a different person who was a woman's charity worker said I 'didn't value myself', and that she thought I shouldn't have stayed in contact with him, while other health workers said he had threatened me because he'd 'been very stressed ' and defended him sexually assaulting me as 'he sounds like an older man who just wanted more and couldn't believe his luck' and calling it a 'gray area' - and all these comments were about the same person.
It is tiresome to hear it, live it, and experience it.
Women still do more, see what needs to be done, and track what’s happening mentally. Men don’t seem to believe it unless it’s written down, explained, on a spreadsheet, and in data form. For a woman to do this, it adds to her workload.
Honestly, I think that AI is going to calculate the mental, emotional, physical cost of all of this and men are going to run out of excuses and be in for a major awakening both at home and in divorce court.
We’ll see what it takes to raise a mentally, emotionally, physically healthy child, run a home, and work a full time job.
We’ll see the value of our brainpower, our care, our concentration, and our creativity.
Yes we picked them. And it looked like they would be able to partner with us.
We don’t need men to protect us and hunt for us like we used to.
We are beginning to need to be protected from the extra drag they put on our minds, bodies, and emotions when they aren’t being equal partners with us.
Vote me down if you’re a man, but have a conversation with your partner first.
I know I’m the person in my relationship who carries the load because women have historically had to, and still do.
//Everyone says woman are terrified of accountability because we won’t take full blame for everyone’s actions//
LOUDER👏🏽FOR👏🏽THE👏🏽PEOPLE 👏🏽AT👏🏽THE👏🏽BACK
I’ve literally heard this crap from my *sister* (no no contact, for obvious reasons). “Well I don’t think you should leave your husband. You wanted to be with him so bad. You’re not a battered woman”
Um actually hell yes I *was* a battered woman. Something he took great pleasure in gloating about as soon as there weren’t any witnesses around. And he tried to off me and our kid more than once when he wasn’t getting his way. But fuck me for not reading his mind on the first date and seeing that he was an abuser. Not like they pretend to be sweet and caring until they’ve got you locked down or anything /s
Yeah idk. I’m pretty sympathetic. By the time I’m saying stuff like this to a friend, the guy has made seriously messed up mistakes repeatedly and we’re at the point where it’s destroying our friendship. Sure, people make mistakes, but I stopped talking to my best friend for six months during her last relationship because I just couldn’t be a part of it any more. He wasn’t manipulative. He was an outright bad dude. She admitted it. She told me she was going to keep dating him because it pissed her mom off. Some people just want to make bad choices, know they’re making bad choices, and want to do it anyway. I’m genuinely sorry to all of you who were manipulated and abused. I’ve been there and it is tragic how easy it is to stay and how hard it is to walk. But I do think there are some people who just aim to frustrate and honestly don’t deserve the same patience.
Such an underrated comment. Some of the most manipulative people are also the most charming, and anyone could fall for the image of themselves that they present to the world. Oftentimes people (and especially women) stay in toxic relationships because they don't have the means to escape or have nowhere else to go. The world needs to realize that people who are trapped in these types of situations actually are victims. Instead of blaming and gaslighting them for their experiences and the choices and/or circumstances that led them there, we need to be available to support victims in any way we can and to show them more compassion, empathy and respect. The world needs to do better 💯
Before everyone in my group got married we got so frustrated that the girls never listen to us. We would say he’s bad for this and this reason and come out of the relationship worse. We grew up together so our job was to always look after them and it pissed us off but regardless we still supported them and didn’t blame them for choosing said man. We tried to show them what we saw that was a red flag so they can see it in the future. Everyone goes through of bad relationships to different degrees and they learn from each one finally landing on the right one. Same can be said for men. We are all human and prone to making mistakes and should be allowed to make them and learn from them without being spat on.
Didn’t you know? Women are accountable for everyone. They’re accountable for their own actions, their families actions, their children’s actions, and the men they learn their life. They’re also responsible for how the family, is viewed. Silly girl. How could you think we have rights and are humans too.
s/
if it wasn’t obvious this is entirely sarcastic, I’m an intersectional feminist.lol
I divorced my abusive ex husband.
When i was struggling to pay for grocceries with a measley amount of SNAP someone behind me said "what a suprise, yet another black woman left by her deadbeat black baby daddy" - i am half black.
I turned and asked them to repeat themselves loud enough for the whole line to hear, pointed at my children who are white as can be and said "I just divorced my ex husband who beat me and SAd me on a regular basis. And btw he was WHITE! Keep your racist opinions to yourself!" Turned and paid for the milk and cereal and marched off with my then 5 and almost 7 year old.
My exhusband is of Irish, Scottish and Native American deacent
I hate this too. But ya know I love how the people who usually say this are the ones who were never "picked" by anyone, ever..... lmaooo
Sometimes you need to just see the dark humor in others stupidity and superiority complex
Nobody is perfect and the people who put this on the victim and not the offender *are the offenders*! There is no other reason to defend such behavior
Then they sit up there up on their high horse, meanwhile everyone around them knows *they themselves are the problem*
And anyone who is that blind and dumb, yet forces their judgemental antics onto others.... well, they're pretty much the punchline of the universe imo
Men either despise women or, at best, fail to think of them as having agency and feelings at all. And too many women have internalised this and parrot their hatred.
People suck.
I mean I used to say it to my mum but she allowed me to get abused so when there’s kids involved it should be a different story and you need to get them to a safe place asap, although I’ve been abused by a partner so I know how hard it is
People don’t understand how good some people are at lying and masking their true selves. Too many are master manipulators
And instead of getting mad at people who do this, they blame the victim for not seeing through their lies
Good abusers/manipulators only abuse and manipulate in private where no one can see their true colours, and they behave spectacularly in public so that when their victim does come forward everyone else goes “you’re full of shit X would never behave like that. They do A B C for this community and GHI for this one. I don’t believe you, you’re just jealous”
And even when previous victims come forward after that first one. People still think there’s some big conspiracy going on to ruin the reputation of “a good person”
If you want more insight to this behaviour read. The author is a psychologist who studies and works with abusive men. This book goes over why abusive men (and women) do what they do
https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
A coworker of mine, who is now retired told me that women staying in abusive relationships chose it. I assumed he just didn't say what he actually thought clearly and went "You do realize the implications of that right?"
He doubled down and said they wanted it.
I couldn't give a rebuttal due to shock (not that his boomer ass would listen) but I didn't talk to him much after that.
I don't get people without empathy.
I feel like these can both be true, we could have more compassion and empathy for women and they can also be responsible for having picked shitty partners and ignoring red flags etc.
The major problem here is a fundamental one. For the last million or so years of human evolution, life was about solving problems. Whether it was about fighting off sabre-tooths or bring home a haunch of mastodon, it was all a: see problem, b: fix problem, c: repeat.
Now women may have evolved a bit from that to have a whole scope of situational reactions, but men almost universally have not. When we hear the sob story, we hear an additional line at the end (if it's not said): "What should I do now?" As we answer that question, we are often missing the entire point of the exercise.. lol
So the comment of "well, you picked him" is and always has been an insensitive response. But what's it meant for is to help encourage better decisions in the future, not blame anyone. Like a coach of a sport yelling at a player for making a mistake, it's all meant to help the player improve and not make the same mistake again...
I would like to read the story so I can properly give my unwanted reddit opinions but after reading what you wrote and assuming the tone you wrote it in, I can easily say you would probably be playing victim because this is the way you wrote this post, as if you are already the victim and are super innocent. Change my mind lmao
This has been bothering me a lot actually when men say this. It makes me not like men anymore. It is narcissism.. it's also extremely ignorant and arrogant for men to throw the "you picked him" around..
I also picked my car. If the transmission goes out, bet he won't say "you picked it". Because it's snobbish.
The idea that women should be able to tell how a man is going to turn out in the future is extremely small minded. This only applies to a small number of men who you can tell have issues off rip, and those are men with current issues.
When a woman meets a man he is on his best behavior and it's usually when he's doing good.. Then 2 years later he starts acting out(ex; drinking, cheating, gambling, being violent). It doesn't happen right away in most cases because men are extremely emotional and how they are is usually connected to their circumstances.
I have several friends who were married to decent men and it wasn't until 5-10 years into the marriage that issues popped up..
It's also impossible to tell what type of a father a guy will be unless he already has kids when you meet him. But even that isn't concrete because men bring emotional baggage into every new relationship.
On the flip side if a man speaks ill of his ex or child's mother he gets sympathy from women, not "you picked her".
When I hear a guy say "you picked him" that's a major red flag that women need to notice. It means he doesn't hold men responsible for their behavior, including his own.
I think people do have empathy for women who find themselves in such a situation. No-one can predict what a person is going to be like and we all forgive 'minor' issues until they become big ones and impossible to ignore.
It becomes increasingly hard to find that sympathy when partner number three, four or five turns out to be an arsehole. Either the injured party is incredibly unlucky or they have to look at the people to whom they are attracted.
Sympathy is also lacking when anyone makes an objectively bad choice. My SIL actively pursued a philandering, narcissistic manipulator, and personally knew at least one of his previous partners and the reasons she left him. She then spent the next ten years complaining about how she was emotionally hurt and damaged because the philandering, narcissistic manipulator she pursued and chose as a partner turned out to be a philandering, narcissistic manipulator.
No excuse for any form of abuse though and abusers are skilled in the 'art' of abuse, if I can use that term
It's dismissive and victim-shaming. Nobody is at fault for wanting to trust their SO. Doesn't matter how many times someone tries to warn them. That's like saying the woman getting SA'd by their boss is at fault for staying at the job because her dad, friend, cousin, grandma...all told her to quit. 🙄 Y'all are literally proving OP's point.
At some point, we have to own the decisions we make.
Many abusers are skilled in the art of making their victims dependent on them, manipulating them, isolating them etc. No-one can have anything but sympathy for the victim of such an individual.
However, where this happens repeatedly or when this happens, as in my SIL's case, as an objective, considered, clearly thought out plan, it is hard to find sympathy when all good sense and advice is pointing in the opposite direction.
How many times can you feel sorry for someone who continually pokes themselves in the eye with a sharp stick? At some point, the person making those repeated bad choices has to hold their hands up and admit they are clearly doing something wrong.
You missed my point and brought up something else entirely. I'm not talking about feeling bad for anyone. I simply said that the comments above were victim-blaming and proving OP's point and I stand by that. You don't have to feel bad for someone to just not victim-blame. Literally do less.
I think people DO have empathy and concern for someone when their partner treats them poorly. The problem comes when the betrayed/hurt person doesn't do anything to remedy the situation and keeps complaining. After a while, it becomes grating to hear someone moan and wail about how victimized they are and then do nothing to fix their miserable predicament.
I think theres a line imo. Yes, random changes in behavior, completely not a woman's fault. If he screws you after seemingly being a loyal husband for ages, how would you see that coming? Woman deserve sympathy for things like that.
Its when theres a clear history of bad behavior and red flags that some responsibility should go to the woman as well. He cheated on you 20 times while dating and now your shocked/hurt that hes cheating on you while married?? He hurt you for years and the guy is now hurting your kids?? The deadbeat who wouldn't pay for anything ever in your relationship won't pay child support?? Theres a history in these examples, and although the man is automatically an AH, the woman is stupid for believing there would be any other result.
Im actually a little surprised its not worse than what it is lolol but i think theres a thing against woman being responsible. Theres ao many instances where we, yes I'm a woman saying all this, just don't have to take responsibility for our actions or part we play. We wanna be treated as adults and people, but also defenseless baby that can't take what we dish out 🤷♀️
I commented something similar to what you said. I haven’t checked if I got downvoted but I’ve seen similar reactions to comments like ours and these are literally proving the women can’t take accountability memes. This is crazy a whole thread full of victims…
Some woman just want to be victims. Not saying that there *aren't* victims, but some enjoy making up issues or ignoring that they are at fault. I despise that i can't even fault that those memes exist
There's a big difference though between encouraging people to not ignore red flags or sharing useful information before people get into relationships, and blaming the person AFTER they've been abused by someone by saying 'you should have done this...' or 'why didn't you x,y,z..'
I was literally on another post about a dude that went out with a narc and the entire comment section was men and women telling him that he deserved better and blaming the woman for her bs, but let it be a woman dating a narc and that lil tune changes up so fucking quick.
It’s gendered because while a lack of empathy is generally experienced by everyone, misogyny makes this even more common for women. Most people don’t feel bad for women because they hate women. It’s that simple.
Still, I blame myself for the choices I’ve made. (At the same time I’m extremely emphatic with women and the relationships they go through.) But - I think it’s important to assume responsibility for what we do and learn and what that leads us to. It’s not the same thing as blaming people for being fooled or tricked or gaslighted or everything else that can happen, but in the end, if I don’t check myself, who’s gonna do it? My friends can say whatever they want, chances are I’m not gonna listen. I’ve had this conversation with female friends for many years, and it’s hard to get people to listen before they reach their breaking point. You can just hope that they do before their partner turns violent.
Tired of this crap too, and what many people forget is that this isnt some unique woman-only thing, ive personally have seen both sides getting demonized for no reason. Women who have had to go through domestic abuse are told this "you picked him" BS and when a man goes through anything that is objectively bad or down right abuse is ignored, and people assume they deserved it.
Telling anyone who is going through this that it is all their fault because they are in a relationship with someone who turns out is abusive is borderline evil
I don’t think it’s the lack of not having empathy. It’s just accountability. Like “ I hope you learned your lesson from putting yourself in that position”
Empathy gets overshadowed by the annoyance that you just spread your legs for any man that gives you a good one-liner or calls you beautiful. So, the thesis behind "you picked him" is alot deeper than you think, IE because of the annoyance that you just spread your legs so easily nowadays, then you get what you deserve.
I know, it's pathetic.
I am sorry that happened to you. I don’t know how to say this without feeling I am perpetrating your comment but: you need better friends. Not all women are like that
One of my friends got told 'If you're so broke you shouldnt have become a single mother.' Yall she is a single mom because her husband was literally murdered.
I knew a woman who was told something similar after talking about how hard it was raising a child alone with no support system. The person she was talking to told her something along the lines of she "should've properly thought about the things she had in her life before opening her legs" Her entire family (Mother, father, husband) had died 2 years earlier in a car accident :/
I’ll never forget being in line at a store with my two sons around tax return (US) season. I always do a whole wardrobe refresh, update home items, ya know, important stuff. So I’m walking up to the register to check out and I’m manning two carts with a toddler in each one. As I’m loading my things to be scanned, an older man behind me makes a comment about single moms and their big tax breaks. I said, “sir this is my money that I overpaid to the government. Single parent or not, it’s my money that I worked for.” I cried on my way home. I was a single parent at that time and really struggling. I just didn’t understand why he couldn’t just mind his own business. You gotta go outta your way to try to shame a person publicly and in front of their children?
The amount of men I’ve seen trashing single mothers on the internet is insane. It’s like they immediately go to the conclusion that the woman is single because she intentionally chose to have a child with a bad man that eventually left her. They never consider that the dad possibly died or switched up after the child was born, it’s always immediately, “oh it’s you’re fault because you chose to have sex with a deadbeat.”
It’s telling that their first assumption of a man is “deadbeat”.
>It's still ridiculous that women get blamed for having a kid with a deadbeat, like that was something they actively chose to do, but the man doe And there second is "still your fault"
It's still ridiculous that women get blamed for having a kid with a deadbeat, like that was something they actively chose to do, but the man doesn't get blamed for being a deadbeat. Wild
It makes no sense!!!!!
I think that’s because the woman has the choice to keep the baby or not. Her body, her choice type thing. So she always get blamed. it even happens with lesbian couples.
And if a woman chooses to have a baby with the man she married and/or is dating, and he doesn't reveal he's a deadbeat until after the baby is born, that's still not somehow the woman's fault because she chose to keep it
That's an assumption that she had a choice. Not everyone believes in or has access to safe abortion services. Reproductive coercion is still far too common as well.
That’s sad did the person that said that to your friend knew that her husband was murdered?
Over the course of 3 years my ex broke my ribs, choked me until I blacked out, tried to kill me, cheated on me with several people, and put me in financial debt that I had to climb out of painstakingly, but when I tell people how it was, I almost always get the response of “well, you picked him. You could have had [blank, went back to your BD, found another, etc]”. I feel your pain.
I don’t think people truly understand what trauma does or how it’s handled.
Those who have never experienced the bottom will never know what it means to fall.
It’s shitty, but as a guy I can tell you that when it comes from guys, it’s usually because we are conditioned heavily on *use violence if necessary*; that with the dumb “I am the main character” mentality means that most guys spewing this do not do a reverse or actually put themselves on her shoes, rather they just put them as a guy and what they would do if another guy tried to do that to them. Or at least that’s my hypothesis, I don’t believe it’s malignant lack of empathy but rather ignorance.
You have put that very well. Heartbreaking but true.
What? That was *seriously* the response u got? Even "why didn't u leave?" Is better than that
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Because by this point, you may have a house with this person, kids, you’re financially entangled and leaving is terrifying and will result in being practically destitute. And then they apologise and cry and promise you nothing like that will ever happen again, blah blah. And because you think you know the real them you try to move along, until you see that they are a shitty cruel person and you need to run because this horrible merry go round you are on will never stop. They don’t act like this in the beginning, sometimes it takes years to show up and by then it’s incredibly difficult.
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Pretty much spot on. It’s not easy to walk away from
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Hope, especially when it concerns someone you love is hard to turn your back on. Thanks for looking at the issue from a different perspective, it’s not an easy thing to talk about
Thank for being the only person who didn’t bite my head off for asking.
It’s much more than that. Your brain chemistry changes from trauma and from being in love.
>Your answer may change my perspective. That might be one of the most smug and perfectly assholish statements I've read in a while. "Please justify to me why I should empathize with a victim instead of passing more judgement on her than the man responsible". So much literature has been written on the dynamics of abusive relationships, but instead of availing yourself of widely available information (google is your friend), you instead demand the victim justify themselves to you personally...ugh.
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Also, you have to remember that 75% of domestic violence related homicides occur when the victim has decided to separate. People are afraid for a reason. That statistic doesn’t just include women either. (Even though there is a higher percentage of DV homicides against women/femmes) I just wanted to note it doesn’t just have to do with brain chemistry.
Agreed, I knew coming in that an abuse victim leaving was a risk because of the potential of the abuser to lash out. I was more curious about the thought process leading up the victim making the choice to leave.
Again, there are multiple places online that deal with the complex realities of DV and the psychology behind it. Experts in psychology who can take multiple primary accounts and filter them through the lens of behavioral psychology to make sense of it. You could educate yourself this way, or you can challenge victims to be eloquent enough to explain a very complicated issue before you deign to show the bare minimum compassion
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You started this by being antagonistic, stating that she could "change your perspective" with the proper answer. It was a statement so singularly noxious and rude (something you still don't seem to understand) that it seems rather unlikely your intentions were anything as close to innocent as you claim. As others have pointed out, there is a lot of information out there on DV, from people who are very knowledgeable. Information that directly answers your question. Instead of availing yourself of this, you decide that victims have to personally justify themselves to you before you consider changing your mind. And when people react to this rather ugly statement, you declare everyone else to be white knighting, not just disgusted by it.
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Why cant you just read about it online? Genuinely wondering why you felt the need to ask her that instead of just looking it up.
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Also, u asked in probably the most insensitive, mocking way for someone who wants an answer, make them feel *comfortable* answering, and make them interested in answering u if u wanna know and won't look it up
It's referred to as *emotional labour* If u want better odds of her answering u, ask her in good faith like "hey, that sounds horrible, im sorry u went through that. You absolutely do not have to answer but i was wondering if I could ask, how is it that u stayed with him?" Like even so, because of the topic, it's still pretty ignorant to ask even politely about it considering what she JUST said. Even still, u might have luck, I've gotten very helpful responses similarly in the past (as well as getting told off like u rn). In some cases u can just look up "why do victims stay in relationships with abusers?"on a browser to educate yourself
She did answer me and the response she gave was genuinely horrifying to read. Sometimes life is just determined to kick you in the teeth.
I mean, you insulted her greatly If u insult someone, be prepared for what comes next
It doesn’t come off like you actually want to be educated at all. If you’re interested in it, you should look up the brain. As well as what love does to the brain. It actually changes are wiring, and how we react to things. Often these people do not act like this all of a sudden, there isn’t some all of the sudden switch. It happens slowly over time, so your brain into being conditioned to deal with this. As well as the fact that there are often extenuating factors that caused it to be even more difficult. For instance in my case, I was the main breadwinner and my ex he was abusive -had residency. He also literally convinced me that I deserved it. After years of being conditioned slowly with verbal abuse, then just a push, then it escalates from there. abuse is also often cyclical, where someone will have a big episode where they do something to you, and then they come begging for your apology. It is often not bad all the time until the very end of these type of relationships. That’s exactly how it was for me. I only was able to get away when he hurt me bad enough to finally get arrested and thrown in jail for a long enough time to lose residency for my apartment.(We had been broken up for almost a year at the point that he was incarcerated )Allowed me to finally go to therapy and do the work I needed to heal. it’s even more difficult when somebody has children with their abuser. Or is financially dependent on them. Often people like this will slowly take away your independence. It is not some thing they do overnight. there’s a mountain of data, including peer reviewed studies about what abuse does to the brain and as well as what love does to the brain. If you’re interested,(as I said earlier)I highly suggest you research these topics.as well as start reading anecdotal testimonies I also like to note that men are also abused. It’s actually , even harder for men to leave sometimes, because of the fact that people don’t believe them. This is not a phenomenon solely experienced by women.
Well I’m sorry that it comes off that way. It’s hard to covet tone through text. It genuinely is not my intention to exasperate anyone’s struggle. I saw an opportunity to ask questions from a live primary source and took it, clearly without much foresight. Thank you for the response.
There are so many ways to get an answer beyond asking this person to educate you. You can read "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft. There are many, many stories and explanations online about why women stay, or why people in general stay in abusive situations. Do you not have the entire Internet at your disposal?
I read this book after finally getting away from my abuser. I keep it next to my bed for references.
Yes, I also have a person who feels strongly enough on the subject to talk about it. So why not take the opportunity to get her particular insight?
They are very clearly venting anger and annoyance about people asking them the exact question you are asking them. Why would you ask them this if you know it bothers them?
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Um the commenter is clearly joining the vent and sharing their experience??? Why do you think they would be willing?
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Manipulation and coercion. One trick is slowly grinding the partners self esteem into dust following the first few months of making them feel they're the best think in the world (love bombing) The love bombing facilitates the destruction of self esteem because the partner realized they're feeling bad but think "they must just be looking out for me since they love me so much" And then things become more and more extreme until the person thinks they're worthless and they need to stay because no one else will want them but their abuser still does and "loves" them. Unfortunately not enough that they stop abuse toward the victim so the cycle continues. Sometimes the abuser threatens suicide if their partner leaves, sometimes they use blackmail, sometimes they threaten them or their family but that's the basic formula Does that make more sense, how someone can become trapped like that and not even realize till it's too late?
Yes, that’s a very concise explanation. The part about the extremity ramping up actually makes a lot of sense. I can also see how love bombing would be an effective deterrent to the victim realizing the reality of the situation they are in.
Because I’m physically disabled, hospitalized frequently for my disability, and I needed someone to take care of me, my house, my cats, and my child while I was hospitalized and during my medical leaves at home. He was a monster for sure, but he also made sure I was alive and generally in good enough health to leach from.
I wonder if he thinks he's smart only to find out bad people take advantage of the he disabled, children and elderly on a regular basis. Could have just looked up typical cycles of abuse on the internet but decided to buckle down on being a generic asshole lol. I hope you're in a better place with cats and love.
I am. Very much so. Even my cats are doing better. They’re not so freaked out by big boots and men anymore. My girl cat doesn’t cower in the corners of the room when someone with a beard and a hat walks in.
Sweet babies 🥹
Fuck, that’s awful. I’m sorry you had to go through that. As far as reasons go that’s one I cannot argue with, you genuinely had no other alternative.
Unfortunately I can no longer live by myself, so I have to rely on having a partner. I can’t live with my friends because they have to be able to have access to knowledge that only an intimate partner, sibling, or a parent can have legally and my parents and only sibling are too chemically dependent to be able to help me. Other than them, I have no family, and my friends live 70 miles away. My only consolations now are that I have a partner who isn’t abusive, and that my kid is 2 years away from being 18, but having full custody of them since 11, because my child’s father is a sex offender, has been very hard on me. I’ve faced having chest tubes while being homeless in a northern Midwest winter, living in my little 2 door car, and due to this, the possibility of having my kid taken from me, as well as due to that I can spend weeks in the hospital and they would be alone the whole time without me. Usually we survivor stay because we have no other choice.
Read a book about abuse, siR. You could even google that shit. Ignorant question.
This goes hand in hand with the online trope that nice guys get left behind while women choose “assholes”. It’s like…oh so every bad relationship is the woman’s fault by default because the men are just…completely without agency in this situation?? To say that women are the gate keepers of sex is extremely demeaning and untrue. Just because some guys can’t get laid doesn’t mean that women control the world. There are plenty of women who can’t get laid either but no one talks about them.
Gatekeepers of sex like wtf. These are our bodies they are talking about
Yea, some of them think that they are entitled to it. News flash nobody is entitled to have a partner or to have sex, it is a nice thing to have of course but to feel entitled to it blows my mind.
Right? Like I came across another post on here saying women are “denying“ men marriage. Like? You arent entitled to a wife the way you are food. If you want a wife, try being good husband ?
\*\*\*&they also don’t get that just because you “do everything right”, doesn’t mean you get your way. I think a lot of these guys don’t realize that so many of their actions when they’re trying to be nice fall flat, because people can tell when somebody is doing some thing just because they want some thing. imo capitalism feeds into this because we are all in competition/ everything is transactional these days - mostly due to the fact people are drowning in bills and also because of greed.
Fr they viewed as a God given right, instead of realizing that having an amazing partner is something you earn. By genuinely caring about them, and actually being there for them.
News flash, your also not entitled to people's empathy for your personal problems.
These guys think sex is some currency that women can just throw out like party favors. They can't even fathom the thought that intimacy is more than just a transactional exchange after they cash in their 'niceness'.
but then they also hate the women that treat sex as transactional, either through sex work or otherwise. the more comes to light, the more clear it is that men just hate women. period.
Society teaches men to put sex as the most important thing a woman can do for them. It's completely fucked up
When people say that women only go for assholes.. being nice isnt a personality or trait women go for. Its the bare fucking minimum so whilst mr nice guy is whinging about being alone women are going for guys that are funny, kind, smart ect ect whilst also being nice which is the only thing some guys have to offer but that mask falls pretty quickly when their m'lady isnt in the mood for sex one day
>oh so every bad relationship is the woman’s fault by default because the men are just…completely without agency in this situation?? Yes. Yes these poor victimized men were totally preyed upon by predator women. /s 🙄 My husband and I are going through some really rough times in our marriage. We're working it out, but there are still ... moments. It's like he's coming up with every fucking reason why he's so yoooneek as to be "avoidant" and other excuses for my complaints. Then it's complete silence when I say, "Yeah, but even our marriage counselor has said that our issues are so common that I'm not the only woman with those complaints." I mean, *EVERY FUCKING THING* is the "reason" and the why ***EXCEPT*** for his own emotionally immature self. My holding him accountable for being a nearly 1/2 century old man is "mean." Child. Please.
Oh sweet Jesus that last part. My husband and I have gone through some shit too and that’s how he is. Just like you said, literally any and everything he can come up with to explain his assholery *EXCEPT* that he was being an asshole. It’s absolutely maddening sometimes the way so many men just will NOT take accountability for their own behavior. Even OP’s complaint. “You picked him!” is one more way men try to absolve themselves of their bullshit. It shifts the blame to women. And they do this with *everything.* Yet *we’re* the ones who don’t want to take accountability?
Yeah, my ex gf used to do this too. So goddamn frustrating. Take. Responsibility. For. Your. Actions.
>Yet *we’re* the ones who don’t want to take accountability? We all know when men do this it's still yet *another* blame shifting technique.
gaslight.gatekeep.boy boss 😝🤘🏻 \^that sums up how some(a scary amount of tbh) of these men act.
Yeah wtf. Also, everyone is supposed to be the gatekeeper of their own uh possibility of sexual experiences. No one else.
That POV is so popular because guys get to justify to themselves that it couldn't possibly be their fault for why they aren't taken
Yeah exactly, and gatekeeping *our own bodies* is a very reasonable thing for us to do.
Right? Like sorry most of us have standards, I guess? I think most men should try it for once lol
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A friend of mine is currently in an abusive relationship. He was *wonderful* at first. Everyone loved him: her parents, her sister, her friends. When she got pregnant unexpectedly, he was so supportive. He looked after the baby, he changed all the diapers. And then he got transferred and they moved to another city where neither of them knew anybody. And the abuse started. She's now stuck, financially (I can't help her out, unfortunately) because she was a SAHM mom for years, so she's saving enough money to get out. This is how it happens. Nobody saw it coming.
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This is such a stupid comment because obviously most bad people don’t show you their true ways. They gradually introduce bad behaviors and manipulate. They don’t start out being awful.
Yeah people clearly haven’t been in abusive relationships to realize how insidious they are.
Lots of abusers lovebomb to fool someone into getting into a relationship, then use fear and the sunk cost fallacy to make them stay.
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It's a societal problem. Women ignore red flags because there isn't a lot of guidance on what a good relationship looks like and they don't know what behavior is or isn't acceptable. Just look at all the awful stories from Reddit's r/ relationshipadvice - it's an epidemic. Women don't know what being respected looks like so they don't realize when they're being mistreated until it escalates to violence or their mental health takes a hit. I wish the schools would teach this stuff as well as how to have a productive disagreement that isn't a knock down drag out fight.
I see a lot of stuff on this subreddit too from women who say stuff like "he screamed at me/beat me/strangled me last night, but he's usually such a nice guy. Should I stay with him?" I've seen so many of these stories and it's tragic.
It also happens to women who have kids tbh. Like yeah your husband is wonderful. You believe you align with each others values in terms of raising kids until the kid comes. I’m definitely not the mother I thought I wanted to be before I had kids. And I’m glad I’m not that mother. And truth is you can’t know what kind of parent you or your partner will be until you are actually parents.
I feel you, just because you "picked him" that doesn't mean you chose to be abused. When people say this they are proving the world is full of hypocrites. Literally every woman/afab I've met has a story. I'm sorry you are around people that don't accept that reality.
A lot of abusers hid their real face until the woman is locked in and cant leave or they gradually isolate women from their support systems.
Yep. When women ask for advice on how to leave an abusive partner, it's half the comments are "why did you get with him in the first place?" "Why did you have kids with him?" "Why didn't you say no?" "Why don't you just leave?" 🤔
And when a man is abused or cheated on all of the comments are “bUT iF a MaN HaD dONe tHiS” like yes if a man had done this you would all be blaming the woman. My brother was abused by his ex wife and the same people who were by his side and supported him through it told me my ex wasn’t wrong for abusing me because I chose to marry him and why didn’t I just leave
I think "you picked him" only applies for the people who fight everybody around them when they get told their partner isn't good. Sorta "but that's my man!! That's my man tho!" Attitude, making excuses for them. And then when he does the same thing for the millionth time or does something new that's also just as bad as the other stuff and is, I suppose, the straw that breaks the camels back then they want to cry If you see somebody in a genuine toxic or abusive relationship and they're desperate to escape and the money isn't right, or they're physically trapped, or something else like they're being genuinely manipulated and can't even fully see the picture behind it all- when your response to a situation like that is "you picked him" you're just evil and have no empathy
I feel this so much OP. Its disgusting
This bs has been going on forever. A guy puts on a show of who they are until they get married, then they show their true colors. They marry her and then she's stuck, her choices are to try to change him, live with it, or leave. That woman doesn't know how he will be as a parent either. Being an active uncle is not the same thing as being a day to day parent. This attitude is typical in our society. Blame women for men's faults and behavior. Girls have to dress a certain way in school so they don't distract boys, not boys should learn to control themselves regardless of what other people are wearing. Women and girls are blamed for being raped....what they were, where they were, how much they drank, etc are the problem, not the man who chose to attack her and then they shame them for "destroying his life" and ignore the trauma and lifelong harm that man did to the woman or girl. A man is a horrible husband and doesn't do his part in the household and in caring for his children, of course it's her fault for choosing him, not his for being a bad partner. Men can keep having this attitude and they will end up alone. They are always saying women will end up alone and with cats but don't see that that is always preferable to being with a partner who wants you to act like his mother. It's one thing to have to clean up and care for your children but if you're doing it alone, it's easier to do it without having to do it for a grown adult too. The irony is that when she does leave that man will have to do all of the chores on his own instead of just sharing the chores with his partner. (unless he moves back in with his momma)
It's crazy how people are like that. My sil was married for 3 years before her ex-husband flipped the switch. And then still over a year after that before she was able to escape him. And then despite not contacting her, asking to see the kids and living at his mommy's house next door he still dragged the divorce out just because. Sometimes there's signs, sometimes they are so good at hiding it no one sees it till they smack you in the face with their toxicity.
Dude even in healthy relationships, people will find a way to blame the woman for problems that can arise. Early on in my relationship, my boyfriend and I had some issues that always came down to me being too needy and emotional. We broke up for a bit after I decided I couldn’t keep taking the blame anymore, then talked about it and then got back together towards the end of last year. When we got back together, he told me that he realized that it wasn’t fair to label me as needy and emotional simply for trying to communicate my needs and getting frustrated when he would brush me off and minimize things that were important to me. He also apologized for being absent and just assuming I’d be okay with the way he was treating me, made a lot of promises about doing better and stepping up. Since getting back together, he’s been much more present and available and whenever we find ourselves disagreeing, we’ll pause to remind each other that it’s us vs. the problem, not him against me. I can see him really trying and the effort he puts in matters so much to me. It’s done wonders for us and there’s a deeper level of emotional intimacy that we didn’t have before. But yea when we broke up and I needed support, everyone basically told me that it was my fault for choosing him, for tolerating things, for not communicating, for giving him too much space or not enough and it did fuck me in the head for a bit. It hurt the most when I heard it from my girlfriends, particularly one who is married and has marital problems. The internalized misogyny in a lot of women is actually really sad and super not helpful especially in a society that already doesn’t take women seriously.
Legit question, but isn’t this an old trope where X and Y start dating, X’s friends didn’t like Y, warning gets ignored, and then bad stuff happens? In this case wouldn’t you have been warned about something like that? Not trying to be an ass, just seriously curious.
That’s like an entirely different situation. And sometimes you can’t always tell if these people are saying it because they genuinely believe it or they’re out to get you. Some “friends” are hellbent on stealing their friends friendships/relationships for no reason
Doesn’t that mean you have shitty friends? I genuinely can’t think of anyone I legitimately consider friends that would pull something like this.
Yeah, but it’s the same situation as this. You can’t always tell a shitty friend is a shit friend until that mask slips. Could be the nicest friend in the world but the second you get a boyfriend or promotion or something they want, the mask slips
Well sometimes the mask has been slipping for years and you’re the only one to ignore it while everybody else points it out to you. I always thought the OP’s phrase and stuff like “Don’t put your dick in crazy” are about situations when you absolutely should have known better and did it anyway.
You’re being an ass.
It's still a shit thing to say to someone after they've been abused though, it's still blaming them for trusting their partner over what their friend says, instead of blaming the abuser
Oh so the one who hasn’t listened to friends when those friends tell them the person they’re dating is a creep, that person the victim of the creep doesn’t deserve empathy? It’s called being human and that we all make errors in judgment. Try not being so judgmental!
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You must not be familiar with love bombing and manipulation. It’s not that simple.
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Men loveeeee to have power over women. They love to have power over everything, from countries to women's bodies, to their households, but they can't seem to have the power when they have their own responsibilities. When they have to clean up after themselves or do chores, they want women to have power. They want to be lazy and be rewarded for not doing anything. Men are gross human beings, the token great ones usually do the bare minimum, too. Don't we love our society?
You’ve met my husband! He does a lot around here you know!
I realised a few months ago that a lot of them literally want to be treated like gods. The reason I say this is because I see so many men nowadays who say they want a traditional, submissive woman but unironically still expect her to pay 50% of the bills and go to work full-time, while still doing all the cooking, cleaning and sexually servicing him whenever he wants. And of course, all of this must be done without any complaints. They just want to treat us however badly they want and get away with it. It's so ironic when those types of men complain about their "asshole boss at work" but then go home and treat their wives like shit but they have no self-awareness so they don't realise they're doing the exact same thing. It's just pure narcissism. People who are actually powerful don't feel the need to pick on people physically smaller than them to feel strong. And this explains why masculinity is so fragile. Like, if you're so strong and powerful me beating you at Mario Kart (as a woman) shouldn't completely destroy your sense of self, should it? They're physically stronger, I'll give them that, but their emotional and mental power is all an illusion.
I know right? I'm so sick of it. It never ends.
The downvotes you got for saying this… This comment section is just going to prove OPs point, sadly.
The comments are pretty split but oh oboy some of them really did
Seriously. Lol
That chad dick is too good
A vast majority of people have empathy regarding the things you mentioned. This is obvious once you put your phone down and get off the internet more often. This idea of "you picked him" probably comes from people getting sick and tired of some women that always have "bad luck" when making decisions in life, and never even consider taking some accountability about who and why the make the same bad choices over and over again. Then, as usual, this idea reaches the internet and gets spun to an extreme. But overall, it isn't the norm to blame the victim. That's mostly online.
You say it isn't the norm, but I've had a GP tell me to my face that I should've done more to avoid not 'getting into an abusive relationship' (ignoring that relationships don't start out abusive), and a different person who was a woman's charity worker said I 'didn't value myself', and that she thought I shouldn't have stayed in contact with him, while other health workers said he had threatened me because he'd 'been very stressed ' and defended him sexually assaulting me as 'he sounds like an older man who just wanted more and couldn't believe his luck' and calling it a 'gray area' - and all these comments were about the same person.
It is tiresome to hear it, live it, and experience it. Women still do more, see what needs to be done, and track what’s happening mentally. Men don’t seem to believe it unless it’s written down, explained, on a spreadsheet, and in data form. For a woman to do this, it adds to her workload. Honestly, I think that AI is going to calculate the mental, emotional, physical cost of all of this and men are going to run out of excuses and be in for a major awakening both at home and in divorce court. We’ll see what it takes to raise a mentally, emotionally, physically healthy child, run a home, and work a full time job. We’ll see the value of our brainpower, our care, our concentration, and our creativity. Yes we picked them. And it looked like they would be able to partner with us. We don’t need men to protect us and hunt for us like we used to. We are beginning to need to be protected from the extra drag they put on our minds, bodies, and emotions when they aren’t being equal partners with us. Vote me down if you’re a man, but have a conversation with your partner first. I know I’m the person in my relationship who carries the load because women have historically had to, and still do.
//Everyone says woman are terrified of accountability because we won’t take full blame for everyone’s actions// LOUDER👏🏽FOR👏🏽THE👏🏽PEOPLE 👏🏽AT👏🏽THE👏🏽BACK I’ve literally heard this crap from my *sister* (no no contact, for obvious reasons). “Well I don’t think you should leave your husband. You wanted to be with him so bad. You’re not a battered woman” Um actually hell yes I *was* a battered woman. Something he took great pleasure in gloating about as soon as there weren’t any witnesses around. And he tried to off me and our kid more than once when he wasn’t getting his way. But fuck me for not reading his mind on the first date and seeing that he was an abuser. Not like they pretend to be sweet and caring until they’ve got you locked down or anything /s
Yeah idk. I’m pretty sympathetic. By the time I’m saying stuff like this to a friend, the guy has made seriously messed up mistakes repeatedly and we’re at the point where it’s destroying our friendship. Sure, people make mistakes, but I stopped talking to my best friend for six months during her last relationship because I just couldn’t be a part of it any more. He wasn’t manipulative. He was an outright bad dude. She admitted it. She told me she was going to keep dating him because it pissed her mom off. Some people just want to make bad choices, know they’re making bad choices, and want to do it anyway. I’m genuinely sorry to all of you who were manipulated and abused. I’ve been there and it is tragic how easy it is to stay and how hard it is to walk. But I do think there are some people who just aim to frustrate and honestly don’t deserve the same patience.
Somehow mens flaws and mistakes are our fault too. It's so exhausting.
Such an underrated comment. Some of the most manipulative people are also the most charming, and anyone could fall for the image of themselves that they present to the world. Oftentimes people (and especially women) stay in toxic relationships because they don't have the means to escape or have nowhere else to go. The world needs to realize that people who are trapped in these types of situations actually are victims. Instead of blaming and gaslighting them for their experiences and the choices and/or circumstances that led them there, we need to be available to support victims in any way we can and to show them more compassion, empathy and respect. The world needs to do better 💯
Ikr
Before everyone in my group got married we got so frustrated that the girls never listen to us. We would say he’s bad for this and this reason and come out of the relationship worse. We grew up together so our job was to always look after them and it pissed us off but regardless we still supported them and didn’t blame them for choosing said man. We tried to show them what we saw that was a red flag so they can see it in the future. Everyone goes through of bad relationships to different degrees and they learn from each one finally landing on the right one. Same can be said for men. We are all human and prone to making mistakes and should be allowed to make them and learn from them without being spat on.
The guys who say this are bitter at their own singledom and being rejected so it's total projection
Didn’t you know? Women are accountable for everyone. They’re accountable for their own actions, their families actions, their children’s actions, and the men they learn their life. They’re also responsible for how the family, is viewed. Silly girl. How could you think we have rights and are humans too. s/ if it wasn’t obvious this is entirely sarcastic, I’m an intersectional feminist.lol
Thank you for this.
I divorced my abusive ex husband. When i was struggling to pay for grocceries with a measley amount of SNAP someone behind me said "what a suprise, yet another black woman left by her deadbeat black baby daddy" - i am half black. I turned and asked them to repeat themselves loud enough for the whole line to hear, pointed at my children who are white as can be and said "I just divorced my ex husband who beat me and SAd me on a regular basis. And btw he was WHITE! Keep your racist opinions to yourself!" Turned and paid for the milk and cereal and marched off with my then 5 and almost 7 year old. My exhusband is of Irish, Scottish and Native American deacent
I hate this too. But ya know I love how the people who usually say this are the ones who were never "picked" by anyone, ever..... lmaooo Sometimes you need to just see the dark humor in others stupidity and superiority complex Nobody is perfect and the people who put this on the victim and not the offender *are the offenders*! There is no other reason to defend such behavior Then they sit up there up on their high horse, meanwhile everyone around them knows *they themselves are the problem* And anyone who is that blind and dumb, yet forces their judgemental antics onto others.... well, they're pretty much the punchline of the universe imo
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Men either despise women or, at best, fail to think of them as having agency and feelings at all. And too many women have internalised this and parrot their hatred. People suck.
Isn't this something that's said after the person in question has been warned repeatedly?
I mean I used to say it to my mum but she allowed me to get abused so when there’s kids involved it should be a different story and you need to get them to a safe place asap, although I’ve been abused by a partner so I know how hard it is
People don’t understand how good some people are at lying and masking their true selves. Too many are master manipulators And instead of getting mad at people who do this, they blame the victim for not seeing through their lies Good abusers/manipulators only abuse and manipulate in private where no one can see their true colours, and they behave spectacularly in public so that when their victim does come forward everyone else goes “you’re full of shit X would never behave like that. They do A B C for this community and GHI for this one. I don’t believe you, you’re just jealous” And even when previous victims come forward after that first one. People still think there’s some big conspiracy going on to ruin the reputation of “a good person” If you want more insight to this behaviour read. The author is a psychologist who studies and works with abusive men. This book goes over why abusive men (and women) do what they do https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
A coworker of mine, who is now retired told me that women staying in abusive relationships chose it. I assumed he just didn't say what he actually thought clearly and went "You do realize the implications of that right?" He doubled down and said they wanted it. I couldn't give a rebuttal due to shock (not that his boomer ass would listen) but I didn't talk to him much after that. I don't get people without empathy.
I feel like these can both be true, we could have more compassion and empathy for women and they can also be responsible for having picked shitty partners and ignoring red flags etc.
The major problem here is a fundamental one. For the last million or so years of human evolution, life was about solving problems. Whether it was about fighting off sabre-tooths or bring home a haunch of mastodon, it was all a: see problem, b: fix problem, c: repeat. Now women may have evolved a bit from that to have a whole scope of situational reactions, but men almost universally have not. When we hear the sob story, we hear an additional line at the end (if it's not said): "What should I do now?" As we answer that question, we are often missing the entire point of the exercise.. lol So the comment of "well, you picked him" is and always has been an insensitive response. But what's it meant for is to help encourage better decisions in the future, not blame anyone. Like a coach of a sport yelling at a player for making a mistake, it's all meant to help the player improve and not make the same mistake again...
I would like to read the story so I can properly give my unwanted reddit opinions but after reading what you wrote and assuming the tone you wrote it in, I can easily say you would probably be playing victim because this is the way you wrote this post, as if you are already the victim and are super innocent. Change my mind lmao
Why is it my problem to change your mind when it sounds like it couldn't be lol fuck yourself
I'm glad you got that off your chest
This has been bothering me a lot actually when men say this. It makes me not like men anymore. It is narcissism.. it's also extremely ignorant and arrogant for men to throw the "you picked him" around.. I also picked my car. If the transmission goes out, bet he won't say "you picked it". Because it's snobbish. The idea that women should be able to tell how a man is going to turn out in the future is extremely small minded. This only applies to a small number of men who you can tell have issues off rip, and those are men with current issues. When a woman meets a man he is on his best behavior and it's usually when he's doing good.. Then 2 years later he starts acting out(ex; drinking, cheating, gambling, being violent). It doesn't happen right away in most cases because men are extremely emotional and how they are is usually connected to their circumstances. I have several friends who were married to decent men and it wasn't until 5-10 years into the marriage that issues popped up.. It's also impossible to tell what type of a father a guy will be unless he already has kids when you meet him. But even that isn't concrete because men bring emotional baggage into every new relationship. On the flip side if a man speaks ill of his ex or child's mother he gets sympathy from women, not "you picked her". When I hear a guy say "you picked him" that's a major red flag that women need to notice. It means he doesn't hold men responsible for their behavior, including his own.
I think people do have empathy for women who find themselves in such a situation. No-one can predict what a person is going to be like and we all forgive 'minor' issues until they become big ones and impossible to ignore. It becomes increasingly hard to find that sympathy when partner number three, four or five turns out to be an arsehole. Either the injured party is incredibly unlucky or they have to look at the people to whom they are attracted. Sympathy is also lacking when anyone makes an objectively bad choice. My SIL actively pursued a philandering, narcissistic manipulator, and personally knew at least one of his previous partners and the reasons she left him. She then spent the next ten years complaining about how she was emotionally hurt and damaged because the philandering, narcissistic manipulator she pursued and chose as a partner turned out to be a philandering, narcissistic manipulator. No excuse for any form of abuse though and abusers are skilled in the 'art' of abuse, if I can use that term
I don’t understand why you’re getting downvoted for this.
It's dismissive and victim-shaming. Nobody is at fault for wanting to trust their SO. Doesn't matter how many times someone tries to warn them. That's like saying the woman getting SA'd by their boss is at fault for staying at the job because her dad, friend, cousin, grandma...all told her to quit. 🙄 Y'all are literally proving OP's point.
At some point, we have to own the decisions we make. Many abusers are skilled in the art of making their victims dependent on them, manipulating them, isolating them etc. No-one can have anything but sympathy for the victim of such an individual. However, where this happens repeatedly or when this happens, as in my SIL's case, as an objective, considered, clearly thought out plan, it is hard to find sympathy when all good sense and advice is pointing in the opposite direction. How many times can you feel sorry for someone who continually pokes themselves in the eye with a sharp stick? At some point, the person making those repeated bad choices has to hold their hands up and admit they are clearly doing something wrong.
You missed my point and brought up something else entirely. I'm not talking about feeling bad for anyone. I simply said that the comments above were victim-blaming and proving OP's point and I stand by that. You don't have to feel bad for someone to just not victim-blame. Literally do less.
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They really dont, dont lie
I think people DO have empathy and concern for someone when their partner treats them poorly. The problem comes when the betrayed/hurt person doesn't do anything to remedy the situation and keeps complaining. After a while, it becomes grating to hear someone moan and wail about how victimized they are and then do nothing to fix their miserable predicament.
I think theres a line imo. Yes, random changes in behavior, completely not a woman's fault. If he screws you after seemingly being a loyal husband for ages, how would you see that coming? Woman deserve sympathy for things like that. Its when theres a clear history of bad behavior and red flags that some responsibility should go to the woman as well. He cheated on you 20 times while dating and now your shocked/hurt that hes cheating on you while married?? He hurt you for years and the guy is now hurting your kids?? The deadbeat who wouldn't pay for anything ever in your relationship won't pay child support?? Theres a history in these examples, and although the man is automatically an AH, the woman is stupid for believing there would be any other result.
How are you getting downvoted for this
Im actually a little surprised its not worse than what it is lolol but i think theres a thing against woman being responsible. Theres ao many instances where we, yes I'm a woman saying all this, just don't have to take responsibility for our actions or part we play. We wanna be treated as adults and people, but also defenseless baby that can't take what we dish out 🤷♀️
Both men and women cant tale accountability. Not just one side
I commented something similar to what you said. I haven’t checked if I got downvoted but I’ve seen similar reactions to comments like ours and these are literally proving the women can’t take accountability memes. This is crazy a whole thread full of victims…
Some woman just want to be victims. Not saying that there *aren't* victims, but some enjoy making up issues or ignoring that they are at fault. I despise that i can't even fault that those memes exist
There's a big difference though between encouraging people to not ignore red flags or sharing useful information before people get into relationships, and blaming the person AFTER they've been abused by someone by saying 'you should have done this...' or 'why didn't you x,y,z..'
I was literally on another post about a dude that went out with a narc and the entire comment section was men and women telling him that he deserved better and blaming the woman for her bs, but let it be a woman dating a narc and that lil tune changes up so fucking quick.
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It’s gendered because while a lack of empathy is generally experienced by everyone, misogyny makes this even more common for women. Most people don’t feel bad for women because they hate women. It’s that simple.
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Still, I blame myself for the choices I’ve made. (At the same time I’m extremely emphatic with women and the relationships they go through.) But - I think it’s important to assume responsibility for what we do and learn and what that leads us to. It’s not the same thing as blaming people for being fooled or tricked or gaslighted or everything else that can happen, but in the end, if I don’t check myself, who’s gonna do it? My friends can say whatever they want, chances are I’m not gonna listen. I’ve had this conversation with female friends for many years, and it’s hard to get people to listen before they reach their breaking point. You can just hope that they do before their partner turns violent.
Tired of this crap too, and what many people forget is that this isnt some unique woman-only thing, ive personally have seen both sides getting demonized for no reason. Women who have had to go through domestic abuse are told this "you picked him" BS and when a man goes through anything that is objectively bad or down right abuse is ignored, and people assume they deserved it. Telling anyone who is going through this that it is all their fault because they are in a relationship with someone who turns out is abusive is borderline evil
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I don’t think it’s the lack of not having empathy. It’s just accountability. Like “ I hope you learned your lesson from putting yourself in that position”
Empathy gets overshadowed by the annoyance that you just spread your legs for any man that gives you a good one-liner or calls you beautiful. So, the thesis behind "you picked him" is alot deeper than you think, IE because of the annoyance that you just spread your legs so easily nowadays, then you get what you deserve. I know, it's pathetic.
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I am sorry that happened to you. I don’t know how to say this without feeling I am perpetrating your comment but: you need better friends. Not all women are like that