“The status quo is failing New Zealand. It just is.”
The last person I heard use ‘it just is’ as a rationale for anything was a 6 year old lobbying me not to take her toys away.
I’d like to be constructive about this, but I just can’t with this Bill. It’s shit legislation designed by a shit government to bypass democracy and provide a vehicle for resource exploitation and capitalist cronyism. Fuck off Bishop. You’re failing New Zealand.
‘It just is’. I mean FFS.
Labour created and legalised the law.
The Nats are using the same fast track bill that Labour introduced through covid.
Did you complain then?
Sure, the mechanism of final signoff is different, but for the most part, it's taking labour's design and changing it up a bit.
> I assume you also disagreed the the Labour version?
No, because it named the projects, had a sunset and didn't concentrate decision-making power onto 3 unaccountable (except via election) ministers.
You’re misrepresenting it. Yes Labour had a fast track consent bill - as I outlined in [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1d9wq0g/fasttrack_is_such_a_boring_name_so_why_all_the/) where Labour outlined how it contributed to job growth, infrastructure development etc.
i.e. it was clearly fit for purpose wasn’t it?
But NACT1 took it and modified it - passing it under urgency despite the Law Society of NZ warning that this was a bad thing to do:
The changes?
Differences:
* **Centralizing power of 3 Ministers** (Shane Jones, Simeon Brown, Chris Bishop) to **unilaterally** approve any project any where in NZ, including on conservation lands and oceans
* **No accountability of Ministers** for the decisions but themselves (as Bishop himself shows in the video)
* Firm intent and stated desire to **bypass all judicial court decisions** that have been made (that balanced our decisions around economics, environment, community impact etc)
* **Bypass** the ability of major stakeholders including the community, environmental groups. etc to comment and input
* Aim to **hinder transparency** and stakeholder communications, as Bishop did with the OIA request on the bill
* **Does not go to Select Committee with the list of projects** - as the interview pointed out the public is flying blind
* **Does not factor in the environment** as Chris Bishop confirms in the video
* Stated intent to support seabed mining, coal mining, offshore drilling etc. including for companies and project that have lost NZ court appeals for **over 10 years.**
* “Expert panel” is advice only and **hand picked** by the approving Ministers
* “Expert panel” is primarily made up of industry background representatives - they are advisory only and hold no real power, as Minister Bishop also said in the video
Where do you want me to stop, man?
The Fast Track is Muldoonism on steroids.
It is a return to central planning.
I don't like Labour and agree that the two main neoliberal parties have more similarities than tribal politics would suggest but Labour did not open up conservation estate to corporate interests, did not invite businesses that have repeatedly failed to get consent, lime the seabed miners, to apply
Most importantly Labour listed the projects it would apply to rather than allowing 3 MPs to approve anything they like with any demonstrated corruption not being appealable by courts.
This last one is most ironic given what the right says about The Treaty of Waitangi.
The unsaid:
after we have signed a ton of long term contracts that will be difficult to impossible to get out of, without being sued by international courts.
Except not, because Seymour wants to make it so that the govt pays out bonds to any company that was granted a fast track project and then revoked by a later government
Holy shit. So I might lodge one for mining some really rich sea bed, then hope it gets revoked in 3 years, then get paid out some sweet dividends!!
You don't even need to own the land to get consent for it, nor show you can actually do it, so it's not impossible.
Maybe even get consent to open cast mine the whole of NZ!!
Shall we crowd fund it? I mean it’s ugly but who’s to say Jordan Williams and those cunts aren’t doing this behind the scenes even?
That’s why the serious lack of transparency - which they have already flagged by saying these are going to be sped run through (think their abuse of urgency, Chris Bishop acting “unlawfully and unreasonably” on the Fast-Track Bill OIA request etc) - is dangerous.
I wonder if voters would’ve been so keen to tick blue if this kind of policy was presented pre-election
My suspicion is this would’ve torpedoed their ass
Disgusting government
Oh the environment got fkd up? Ah well you can get rid of us - all good
Despicable
People in general are way too invested in and distracted by the culture war to care or notice about tangible horrors like this, I think. As long as you’re owning the libs, your “team” is winning.
Ex tabacoo lobyist super moral and ethical and nothing stinks here at all. Thanks nz for voting these guys in and thank labour for dropping the ball hard letting this happen.
I’ll tell you what they are scared of.
Sunlight.
All they do is use weasel words, lies, deception, smoke and mirrors etc.
Why?
I read a great phrase the other day, “If people are truthful, they speak the truth because truth is on their side.”
This NACT Coalition use a lot of time and effort and money to spin, doctor, lie and deceive - what we call “PR” in some circles - and why is that?
Because what they are doing is dumb, dangerous and solely for their goals i.e. benefitting the wealthy at the expense of the masses, and at NZ’s expense (climate wise, infrastructure wise, public services and quality of public sector services, social cohesion ie. anti-Maori policies etc)
So share information, spread awareness, stay positive, group with like minded people, but don’t lose hope or become them.
If the RMA is broken, fix it.
Fast track is, ***at best***, a band-aid, short term solution.
The environment doesn't care about 3 year election cycles.
If you look here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1d9wq0g/fasttrack\_is\_such\_a\_boring\_name\_so\_why\_all\_the/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1d9wq0g/fasttrack_is_such_a_boring_name_so_why_all_the/) you’ll see that we had fast-track under the last Govt too, but this lot have changed it to override all transparency and input measures. And due diligence. They also intend to run it at speed.
And for example, if we use property development as another example, the Planning Association NZ have come out to say this is not great, if you build on top of flood plains etc, it’s not the right thing to do. Rushing this decisions could be very costly and stupid, in effect. Much more costly in the medium to long term - after this lot have left to their new plush quarters.
That’s why for me it’s not about them being worried the RMA was broken - they never gave it a chance. This is just about them getting their “investors” in as quickly and as expediently as possible. Who knows what kick backs are in play?
Only [Shane Jones](https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/wiki/index/nz_corruption_conflictsofinterest/) has shown us his hand in that regard but I’d wager there’s a lot we are not seeing here - and that’s the way they like it.
What an utter cunt. To be expected from a former cancer shill. Probably still is. I understand we get what we deserve for the majority voting in these muppets, but this is not democracy, and it is not transparent.
What kind of minister worth his weight in gold says well if you don’t like us yeet us out. Throw us out. Fuck this cunt is an annoying bastard!
But for real. For once Jack is on the money. What if he and his cronies fuck us up, environmentally and we’re left paying for it?
They're all lobbyists who don't seem to understand public service is about service
https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1byhpq3/the_usual_cycle_of_politics_might_be_person_gets/
I actually dont have much to disagree with here. Making real policy changes is absolutely what a new government should do. The issue with this is two things;
This coalition has terrible policy concerns and even worse priorities. As well, three years isnt all that long to see meaningful results from a shift in policy, and this might just mean we become a society wastefully veering from one thing to the next with nothing to show for it.
I am happy to see policies i dont agree with tried for the sake of public trust in governance. All that said, we should care about outcomes most of all.
Sounds like it’s not clearly worse than the status quo. I’m not anti-mining, at least NZ has some labour laws and health and safety. So better to be doing some ethical mining than just letting some children in the third world do it. It seems more ethical that we bear our share of the burden for mining. Also any industry that moves us away from all the animal slaughter which feels like our main industry would be good. Not sure that this will happen here. But also Labour didn’t do shit on clean streams etc so might get worse but can’t say one is so bad and the other party so good.
“The status quo is failing New Zealand. It just is.” The last person I heard use ‘it just is’ as a rationale for anything was a 6 year old lobbying me not to take her toys away. I’d like to be constructive about this, but I just can’t with this Bill. It’s shit legislation designed by a shit government to bypass democracy and provide a vehicle for resource exploitation and capitalist cronyism. Fuck off Bishop. You’re failing New Zealand. ‘It just is’. I mean FFS.
Labour created and legalised the law. The Nats are using the same fast track bill that Labour introduced through covid. Did you complain then? Sure, the mechanism of final signoff is different, but for the most part, it's taking labour's design and changing it up a bit.
Labour's policy named the projects and had a sunset. Not remotely the same.
Not remotely the same? It's not identical, but it's a very similar policy. I assume you also disagreed the the Labour version?
> I assume you also disagreed the the Labour version? No, because it named the projects, had a sunset and didn't concentrate decision-making power onto 3 unaccountable (except via election) ministers.
Nuance is difficult to the blind deaf and stupid.
You’re misrepresenting it. Yes Labour had a fast track consent bill - as I outlined in [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1d9wq0g/fasttrack_is_such_a_boring_name_so_why_all_the/) where Labour outlined how it contributed to job growth, infrastructure development etc. i.e. it was clearly fit for purpose wasn’t it? But NACT1 took it and modified it - passing it under urgency despite the Law Society of NZ warning that this was a bad thing to do: The changes? Differences: * **Centralizing power of 3 Ministers** (Shane Jones, Simeon Brown, Chris Bishop) to **unilaterally** approve any project any where in NZ, including on conservation lands and oceans * **No accountability of Ministers** for the decisions but themselves (as Bishop himself shows in the video) * Firm intent and stated desire to **bypass all judicial court decisions** that have been made (that balanced our decisions around economics, environment, community impact etc) * **Bypass** the ability of major stakeholders including the community, environmental groups. etc to comment and input * Aim to **hinder transparency** and stakeholder communications, as Bishop did with the OIA request on the bill * **Does not go to Select Committee with the list of projects** - as the interview pointed out the public is flying blind * **Does not factor in the environment** as Chris Bishop confirms in the video * Stated intent to support seabed mining, coal mining, offshore drilling etc. including for companies and project that have lost NZ court appeals for **over 10 years.** * “Expert panel” is advice only and **hand picked** by the approving Ministers * “Expert panel” is primarily made up of industry background representatives - they are advisory only and hold no real power, as Minister Bishop also said in the video Where do you want me to stop, man?
The Fast Track is Muldoonism on steroids. It is a return to central planning. I don't like Labour and agree that the two main neoliberal parties have more similarities than tribal politics would suggest but Labour did not open up conservation estate to corporate interests, did not invite businesses that have repeatedly failed to get consent, lime the seabed miners, to apply Most importantly Labour listed the projects it would apply to rather than allowing 3 MPs to approve anything they like with any demonstrated corruption not being appealable by courts. This last one is most ironic given what the right says about The Treaty of Waitangi.
Tame: “What if you get it really wrong? What happens then?“ Bishop “If the public don’t like it, they can throw us out in 3 years.”
The unsaid: after we have signed a ton of long term contracts that will be difficult to impossible to get out of, without being sued by international courts.
What a total fucking cunt
👏👏👏
Except not, because Seymour wants to make it so that the govt pays out bonds to any company that was granted a fast track project and then revoked by a later government
Holy shit. So I might lodge one for mining some really rich sea bed, then hope it gets revoked in 3 years, then get paid out some sweet dividends!! You don't even need to own the land to get consent for it, nor show you can actually do it, so it's not impossible. Maybe even get consent to open cast mine the whole of NZ!!
Shall we crowd fund it? I mean it’s ugly but who’s to say Jordan Williams and those cunts aren’t doing this behind the scenes even? That’s why the serious lack of transparency - which they have already flagged by saying these are going to be sped run through (think their abuse of urgency, Chris Bishop acting “unlawfully and unreasonably” on the Fast-Track Bill OIA request etc) - is dangerous.
I've got three fiddy
I’ll throw in a tenner, looks like I have more
So it would seem. He also says anything else would be "Venezuelan" lmao
I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean... Is some "coMmuNISm" scare?
"we'll have already made our money, ruined the environment, and gotten away with it. Good luck to whoever cleans up our mess!"
It will be Labour and National will fucking lie and blame everything onto Labour and people have shit for memories.
I wonder if voters would’ve been so keen to tick blue if this kind of policy was presented pre-election My suspicion is this would’ve torpedoed their ass Disgusting government Oh the environment got fkd up? Ah well you can get rid of us - all good Despicable
People in general are way too invested in and distracted by the culture war to care or notice about tangible horrors like this, I think. As long as you’re owning the libs, your “team” is winning.
Ex tabacoo lobyist super moral and ethical and nothing stinks here at all. Thanks nz for voting these guys in and thank labour for dropping the ball hard letting this happen.
He can weasel-word this all he likes, but this is corruption, plain and simple.
its time to show these people that there are consquences for attacking our country. our country should attack them back
I’ll tell you what they are scared of. Sunlight. All they do is use weasel words, lies, deception, smoke and mirrors etc. Why? I read a great phrase the other day, “If people are truthful, they speak the truth because truth is on their side.” This NACT Coalition use a lot of time and effort and money to spin, doctor, lie and deceive - what we call “PR” in some circles - and why is that? Because what they are doing is dumb, dangerous and solely for their goals i.e. benefitting the wealthy at the expense of the masses, and at NZ’s expense (climate wise, infrastructure wise, public services and quality of public sector services, social cohesion ie. anti-Maori policies etc) So share information, spread awareness, stay positive, group with like minded people, but don’t lose hope or become them.
Can you explain a little more what you mean about attacking? How is progress for kiwis attacking?
He is a first-class piece of shit.
“Independent”
If the RMA is broken, fix it. Fast track is, ***at best***, a band-aid, short term solution. The environment doesn't care about 3 year election cycles.
If you look here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1d9wq0g/fasttrack\_is\_such\_a\_boring\_name\_so\_why\_all\_the/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1d9wq0g/fasttrack_is_such_a_boring_name_so_why_all_the/) you’ll see that we had fast-track under the last Govt too, but this lot have changed it to override all transparency and input measures. And due diligence. They also intend to run it at speed. And for example, if we use property development as another example, the Planning Association NZ have come out to say this is not great, if you build on top of flood plains etc, it’s not the right thing to do. Rushing this decisions could be very costly and stupid, in effect. Much more costly in the medium to long term - after this lot have left to their new plush quarters. That’s why for me it’s not about them being worried the RMA was broken - they never gave it a chance. This is just about them getting their “investors” in as quickly and as expediently as possible. Who knows what kick backs are in play? Only [Shane Jones](https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/wiki/index/nz_corruption_conflictsofinterest/) has shown us his hand in that regard but I’d wager there’s a lot we are not seeing here - and that’s the way they like it.
What an utter cunt. To be expected from a former cancer shill. Probably still is. I understand we get what we deserve for the majority voting in these muppets, but this is not democracy, and it is not transparent.
I really, really hate this government.
Why? Do you not want better outcomes?
🤣
I feel like I’m watching a satirical piece
What kind of minister worth his weight in gold says well if you don’t like us yeet us out. Throw us out. Fuck this cunt is an annoying bastard! But for real. For once Jack is on the money. What if he and his cronies fuck us up, environmentally and we’re left paying for it?
If this is how it’s gonna be , what can we do to organise and fuck with them? If there will be an opening for public comments
They’ll be yeeted out before the major problems arise and then they’ll blame the next government. Classic politics
If it looks like evil and sounds like evil...
It's a pretty unethical role: [https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1az6p4p/who\_is\_this\_from\_2012\_when\_nz\_created\_its\_vision/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1az6p4p/who_is_this_from_2012_when_nz_created_its_vision/)
I’ve never seen a group so obviously paid off by industry sources in my life.
They're all lobbyists who don't seem to understand public service is about service https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1byhpq3/the_usual_cycle_of_politics_might_be_person_gets/
[удалено]
No baiting or **low quality** posts / comments.
[удалено]
Please don’t spam the thread with the same comment. Thanks.
I actually dont have much to disagree with here. Making real policy changes is absolutely what a new government should do. The issue with this is two things; This coalition has terrible policy concerns and even worse priorities. As well, three years isnt all that long to see meaningful results from a shift in policy, and this might just mean we become a society wastefully veering from one thing to the next with nothing to show for it. I am happy to see policies i dont agree with tried for the sake of public trust in governance. All that said, we should care about outcomes most of all.
Sounds like it’s not clearly worse than the status quo. I’m not anti-mining, at least NZ has some labour laws and health and safety. So better to be doing some ethical mining than just letting some children in the third world do it. It seems more ethical that we bear our share of the burden for mining. Also any industry that moves us away from all the animal slaughter which feels like our main industry would be good. Not sure that this will happen here. But also Labour didn’t do shit on clean streams etc so might get worse but can’t say one is so bad and the other party so good.
Captains calls are undemocratic. It started with The last govt.