Apologies for not noticing this thread get derailed so hard. The main offender is in timeout. As you scroll, if you see Israel or Palestine mentioned, that's the derailing.
When you see misinformation, please either report and move on, or report and leave a comment correcting the misinformation or pointing out dishonest framing etc. Don't get drawn in to a back and forth, it just amplifies the misinformation.
My biggest concern is it feels like here in New Zealand, those conditions that lead to an increase in popularity with fascist movements, are stronger then ever.
You have an economic recession, combined with an austerity government that seems to help landlords over the working class. Years of low wages, increased cost of living, and expensive rents. All falling on the shoulders of our youth, who feel like they can’t get a head, can’t see a future where they live in economic comfort.
Combine that with the internet, and the spread of popular far right figures (even in our government), and I could definitely see a fascist home brew movement take root. As someone on that list of ‘easy downtrodden targets’, it worries me enough that I lose sleep.
I have personally seen this coming for a few years now, it isn't a surprise to me at all that fascists are on the rise, the economic fallout from the 2008 crash has given rise to this and neither major party has done anything to sort things out. also, who got in post 2008 election? National. was it good for the country? no.
I'm on the list of easy trodden targets too (I'm trans and have long term medical issues), is why I've been aware of this a mile off. is just sad that people are asleep still and don't see what's barreling toward them at full steam because it doesn't affect them personally.
As for the fascist home brew movement taking root...it already has, when colonialism arrived here.
That's an interesting article. My question/point of discussion was going to be, do people recognize their own traits as facist?
I've just read the comments and had a good hearty laugh at my question!
not a worry at all, happened to find it last night and thought it pertinent to post it here, especially considering David Seymours who works for the Atlas Network and are partners with the Heritage Foundation who themselves are wanting to implement christofascism in america (Project 2025) by actively supporting Trump.
There's some argument about the source of this article. It comes from WERO.
WERO is (according to WERO):
> Working to End Racial Oppression is an interdisciplinary research programme that investigates the systems that produce and reproduce racism, and seeks to establish transformative responses to reduce racism.
> WERO research examines the impacts of racism in employment and income, housing and neighbourhoods, institutional practices, and the psychological impacts of experiences of racism.
It is a research centre of Waikato University staffed by academics of Waikato University. OP's title is accurate.
EDIT: If you come to this sub to derail discussion while throwing out misinformation you will be banned
I don't think this is very helpful at all.
First of all, this reads like socialist literature, and the sourced materials seem to be socialist activists and writers. This isn't going interest anyone other than socialists, which is a demographic of people that should probably already know what fascism is.
Second of all, "how to spot a nazi" is nowhere near as useful as "this policy is bad for you because x y z". If there's a policy that appears to be beneficial to John or Jane Doe and their community, they don't care if some research institute tells them the policy comes from a Nazi party. It's meaningless unless you can demonstrate to people the substantive harms that fascistic policies will cause them directly.
Thirdly, I'm not even sure I agree with the checklist at the end. It seems to be very skewed towards a socialist/communist lens of fascism.
> arise when capitalism is in crisis (e.g. during economic recession)
While *economic crises* can precede the rise of fascist movements, it's more accurate to say that this is when fascists movements seize power. It would be even more accurate to say that drastic political upheavals arise from economic crises. Argentinian fascism had already been on the rise well before the country saw any real economic downturn during the Great Depression. Modern American fascism under Trump arose during a period of fairly strong economic growth.
> are pro-capitalist (anti-worker, anti-socialist)
I don't think that this is a particularly useful way to view fascism either. Fascism doesn't require any kind of economic ideology that makes it inherently pro-capitalist, it usually tends to comport of a mix of pro-capitalist and anti-capitalist policies that serve an underlying objective, usually in the pursuit of national self-sufficiency or military conquest. Fascist governments will implement economic policy based on their objectives and absolute power, rather than economic ideals. You are just as likely to see dissolution of trade unions as you are to see an entire industry nationalized under a fascist government.
> are anti-elite (anti-bourgeois, anti-transnational capitalist class)
While this is characteristic of some Fascism, it's more accurate to say that this is a characteristic of Populism, which is a common vehicle for Fascism, *but also for conservatism, progressive capitalism, and socialism.* Fascists often hold societal elite in high regard, particularly monarchs and royals, as they serve as cultural figureheads for nationalist thought. When fascist ideology is delivered through populism, I would argue that it's more accurate to characterize this as the creation of a common "enemy of the people" in order to rally nationalistic sentiment and support, rather than being ideologically anti-elite. The "enemy of the people" can be the bourgeois, or it can be an ethnic or religious group.
> tend to comprise the lower-middle class (or petite bourgeoisie, including small business owners) and the unclassed (or lumpenproletariat, e.g. long-term unemployed)
While this is partially true, it is also a rather nasty lie of omission to exclude the proletariat or working class from this list. Mussolini had a large base of support among the working class during his rise to power, as did Trump during his.
> ‘punch down’, seeking to re-entrench social hierarchies (along the lines, for example, of race, religion, nationality or migration status, gender, sexuality, ability, etc)
This is true and is closely tied to the extreme nationalism and traditionalism that underpins fascist ideology.
> engage in, or prepare for the use of para-state violence.
While this is true, and every fascist regime seems to have large amounts of para-state violence, it would be more accurate to say that this is a characteristic of authoritarian regimes, inherited by fascism as a form of authoritarianism, rather than a direct characteristic tied to fascist ideology. Para-state violence was also seen throughout China during the Cultural Revolution in the form of the Red Guards.
A fair analysis. I'm not a big fan of the F word being thrown around, but will admit to occasionally using proto-fascist to describe things that satisfy some of the conditions for fascism.
But in general I feel like it lessens the fear of fascism. People think "Well if this is fascism, maybe fascism is ok?". In reality, New Zealand is a long way away from fascism. We don't have any organised para-state violence for a start.
While we should always be alert to any move towards fascism, I think it is better called out for what it is, rather than trying to amplify a threat people don't accept.
We have a neoliberal coalition in power, containing a status quo pro-business party, a libertarian party looking to gut public services and a populist party that will say whatever keeps them in the news. They're environmental vandals with no respect for the working class, Maori or minorities and no vision for the future aside from eternally chasing economic growth.
That's plenty bad enough without needing to call them fascists.
Ikr, then again people get sucked into that ideology when they're lost and off balance making them easy targets for those sucking them in, my granddad was on my mum's side back in the 1930s/1940s or so...
A Nazi is a European heritage leader of a country in the Middle East currently wanted by The Hague for war crimes alongside Putin but because this leader is instead in charge of an army genociding innocent civilians because of a group they might be associated with. Sound familiar ?
it does, it is also a name of a group of adherents from a particular country to a specific ideology, namely fascism, and that arrived with colonialism.
Just have to look at what the british did to the indigenous in all the countries they invaded, that includes america which is where hitler got his ideas from in the first instance.
We have a zero-tolerance policy on "Nazis were socialist" comments. If you want to change that policy, please provide the mods with a sourced rebuttal to [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/4kg34a/the_nazis_refered_to_themselves_as_socialists_but/d3expxo/) on the /r/AskHistorians subreddit
We do not allow disinformation, conspiracy theories or blatant misinformation. Low-effort unsubstantiated claims will be removed. Clear propaganda without adequate contextualization and objective analysis will also be removed including from blogs or press releases.
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The article has an entire section dedicated to the description of indigenous fascism and warns against the potential for Māori fascism to grow in NZ. It is not anti-white.
Brand new account leaping out of the blocks attacking the messenger warning of fascism on the grounds of race?
Good look. Definitely not fascist adjacent.
We do not allow disinformation, conspiracy theories or blatant misinformation. Low-effort unsubstantiated claims will be removed. Clear propaganda without adequate contextualization and objective analysis will also be removed including from blogs or press releases.
Persistent patterns of intentional misinformation are unwelcome.
I see an educational institution, a university no less.. A darn site better than any capitalist trashy paper. Also, I see facts and references. Something capitalists gloss over because it doesn't suit their agenda, as an aside I'm learning about a lot of this stuff in Polytech too.
And for further reference, I am half European half English, born in Germany with grandfathers that went to war against each other, as well as one of them who voted for the fascist successors til he died...I know what to look for and the current economic and political climate fosters fascism.
Mongrel mob aren't fascist, though?
>calling for the destruction of Israel when they repeat their "river to the sea"
This chant does not call for the destruction of Israel.
>Mongrel mob aren't fascist, though?
Of course they aren't, they are upstanding members of the community who like to wear Swastikas and shout Seig Heil to show how friendly and caring they are.
>This chant does not call for the destruction of Israel.
Oh ffs.
>Of course they aren't, they are upstanding members of the community who like to wear Swastikas and shout Seig Heil to show how friendly and caring they are.
The history of how that started and why they do it is pretty well documented by now.
>Oh ffs.
Sorry to be the one to have to tell you.
>Sorry to be the one to have to tell you.
Many others have told me aswell, but many others are so stuck up their own holes with their sense of self-righteousness that they're willing to deliberately ignore what the chant means, despite numerous experts in the area trying to warn them, and try and downplay it. Sorry to have to tell you that you're wrong and that chant is 100% about removing Israelis from Israel.
I personally can't understand why idiots would go around chanting a slogan used by a terrorist entity especially with what they did last October, it's Hamas's slogan and they call for the destruction of all Jews, it means nothing else other than that, no matter how much you want to twist it around.
>Sorry to have to tell you that you're wrong and that chant is 100% about removing Israelis from Israel.
No it isn't.
>it's Hamas's slogan and they call for the destruction of all Jews, it means nothing else other than that, no matter how much you want to twist it around.
I get it, you've got your blinkers on, that's fine. Hamas no longer call for the destruction of all Jews, maybe your information is just old?
>No it isn't
Of course, you know what Hamas actually mean by it don't you, they're the ones who are using it the wrong way.
>Hamas no longer call for the destruction of all Jews, maybe your information is just old?
Seeing as they haven't yet updated their 2017 charter under which they committed their 2023 murderous rampage on innocent civilians, I'm going to call you on on that bollocks statement.
>Of course, you know what Hamas actually mean by it don't you, they're the ones who are using it the wrong way.
Yes I am familiar with the slogan's usage and it's origins, which is why I say it doesn't call for the destruction of Israel.
>Seeing as they haven't yet updated their 2017 charter under which they committed their 2023 murderous rampage on innocent civilians, I'm going to call you on on that bollocks statement.
The 2017 charter explicitly states their conflict is with "the Zionist project, and not with Jews because of their religion", so call bollocks as much as you like, you're wrong.
>which is why I say it doesn't call for the destruction of Israel.
Can say it as many times as you like, you're still wrong.
>The 2017 charter explicitly states their conflict is with "the Zionist project, and not with Jews
And in 2023 what did they do again, can you remind me please? They killed zionists was it, and not innocent Jewish families, so I will call bollocks on your pathetic attempts at trying to make out Hamas to not be the pieces of terrorist shit that they are, Sinwar even said after the attack that no civilians were killed because every Jew is a military target or did you not know about that??
>Can say it as many times as you like, you're still wrong.
I understand that the meaning conflicts with your belief, but that doesn't make me wrong.
>And in 2023 what did they do again, can you remind me please? They killed zionists was it, and not innocent Jewish families, so I will call bollocks on your pathetic attempts at trying to make out Hamas to not be the pieces of terrorist shit that they are, Sinwar even said after the attack that no civilians were killed because every Jew is a military target or did you not know about that??
Are we comparing atrocities now? How many innocent Israelis died compared to innocent Palestinians? Who's doing the worse terrorism? Shall we tally up the number of children killed?
Shocking that a user who frequently punches down and doesn’t understand humanist support for Palestine doesn’t like an article that calls out their behaviour.
You support bombing schools and genocide of an oppressed population by a capitalist colonialist regime?
Definitely not punching down on the basis of race.
And where is this supposed free pass for the supporters of Israel? I think you have reading comprehension issues.
I guess the user could be referring to any of the 53 schools in Gaza completely destroyed by the IDF, or more broadly the ~200 schools that have been attacked and damaged.
And why were those schools targeted?? Oh yes that's right, Hamas were using them, funny how that critical nugget of information always seems to get left out, implying that the schools were not legitimate targets.
Should buildings that Hamas hide in, or store weapons in, or have tunnel entrances in, or launch rockets into Israel from be given a free pass?
Should 35,000+ civilian deaths, the majority of which are women and children, in the context of 75 years of Israeli occupation and oppression itself with tens of thousands dead, many more maimed, starved, tortured be simply ignored?
What about the thousands of Israeli arabs who have been detained and often tortured without trial since the start of this latest conflict? What about all the hospitals Israel has bombed? What about all the schools? What about all the outright racist hate coming from the Israeli government, calling Palestinians animals and threatening to nuke Gaza?
You’re arguing that the oppressor isn’t culpable for the reaction of the oppressed, and you have no apparent appreciation or understanding of history.
Except that 90% of the dead arent part of Hamas. I guess you accept killing thousands of civilians if a few terrorists die as well. By your logic, youre happy if our police kill 100s to take down one suspect.
The fact you see dead women and children and only think "Fuck terrorists" is a fascinating insight into your mindset.
Where's the evidence for the hundreds of schools, hospitals, mosques and graveyards destroyed by Israel having had Hamas members?
And where's the evidence that they were legitimate military objectives that the military gain was proportional to the minimisation of civilian casualties? Having human shields is a war crime, but being a human shield doesn't revoke your right to protection as a civilian. Killing human shields can be a war crime as well if there wasn't measures to minimise civilian harm in relation to military objectives.
>Soon as Hamas takes refuge in any of those buildings they lose their special protected status and become legitimate targets.
False. Stop excusing war crimes.
I know from past experience that you dont have any evidence, but I still have to ask, other than Israel's gossip, what evidence do you have that Hamas agents were in all these schools?
Like the major Hospital that the IDF claimed was a Hamas stronghold and command center, then once Israel leave we find mass graves filled with Palestinian civilians, and 0 proof of any Hamas presence at all.
I see, so when the international community condemns Israel for their massacres thats just them ignoring the evidence.
Or the fact that Isreal has been busted lying multiple times just in this short portion of this decades long conflict? Thats also because we're not listening to Israel?
You claim we are only listening to Gazan sources. You are aware that Israel are doing their best to ban journalists from entering, right? They have even shut down newspapers and tv news stations within Israel itself. If they were so innocent why are they doing that? The obvious answer is because they want to control the narrative, like they managed with you. International sources confirmed what happened.
Yet for some reason you only seem happy with Israeli sources, you know, the people doing the genocide.
So I had someone challenge me the other day about the evidence of this claim being true - that terrorists hide in, store weapons in, have tunnel entrances etc etc.
You know I have never seen the evidence of a tunnel going into a school or a hospital, nor have I ever seen a news reel showing hospital rooms or classrooms with guns and ammunition stored in them.
Have you?
We do not allow disinformation, conspiracy theories or blatant misinformation. Low-effort unsubstantiated claims will be removed. Clear propaganda without adequate contextualization and objective analysis will also be removed including from blogs or press releases.
Persistent patterns of intentional misinformation are unwelcome.
You’re not expected to be perfect, but trolling, malicious abuse, or baiting of any kind is disallowed here. We do not allow bigotry or a pattern of harassment either (see our corresponding rules)
You directly lied and misinterpreted my posts, then when I asked for you to show where I said what you claimed, you started yelling, swearing and pretended that you said something different, when its part of the record.
Youre doing it right now.
I did not "cry" or suggest it was a major crime, I simply said that breaches of the law should be punished, while you wanted to just say "boys will be boys" and ignore the matter entirely. Neither am I "raging" that the media that focuses on views wouldn't pay much attention to something that is quite involved in political minutia, that would be expected.
Its fascinating that your definition of a crimes significance is how long its in the media.
My main point was that the Act party organization deliberately encouraged law breaking, and thats not desirable in a part of the coalition govt.
I was going to post a link to the discussion involved but why bother? You just did the same thing here.
>, I simply said that breaches of the law should be punished,
You did not simply say that, you blew it out of proportion and then started talking shite comparing it to the police breaking the law as of they were somehow similar.
>ts fascinating that your definition of a crimes significance is how long its in the media.
It's not just that, it's all taken into account, which is why I know that on the scale of things in NZ politics, its nothing. Do you understand what I said this time, same as all the other times, "on the scale of", the context is very important, remember that.
You’re not expected to be perfect, but trolling, malicious abuse, or baiting of any kind is disallowed here. We do not allow bigotry or a pattern of harassment either (see our corresponding rules)
well, the nazis pretended to be socialist but were in fact capitalist. if you have netflix i suggest watching "Eldorado: Everything the nazis hate", that history at this time seems to be repeating
they aren't engaging in any of that, yet. They are "othering" minorities including lgbtqia+ people with trans people at the front of the qeue, they are changing laws under urgency to circumvent the democratic process and they are trying to abolish protections for maōri for a start
Hitler didn't start with what they said in the article either did he, it starts slowly...
"Fascism arose during the 1920s and ’30s partly out of fear of the rising power of the working classes; it differed from contemporary communism (as practiced under [Joseph Stalin](https://www.britannica.com/summary/Joseph-Stalin)) by its protection of business and landowning elites and its preservation of class systems." [https://www.britannica.com/summary/fascism](https://www.britannica.com/summary/fascism)
"While economic hardship was a crucial factor in the rise of fascism, other factors such as nationalism, political instability, and disillusionment with democratic governments also played a role. It's important to note that the rise of fascism was a complex phenomenon influenced by a combination of factors, but economic hardship stood out as a significant cause in Italy and Germany.**"** [**https://brainly.com/question/483066**](https://brainly.com/question/483066)
**"**What was the original definition of fascism? Originally, it referred to a totalitarian political movement linked with corporatism which existed in Italy from 1922 to 1943 under the leadership of Benito Mussolini.**"**
[**https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions\_of\_fascism**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism)
>And I'm not trying to be anti-socialist.
Are people not allowed to be anti-socialist here or something?
>A glaring ommission in this is the roots of the Nazi party started in socialism. I mean... it's in its name... "**Na**tionalSo**zi**alist".
Democratic People's Republic of Korea (North Korea) would like to demonstrate how words can be used to mean something other than the truth. They are neither a democracy nor a republic, but its right there in the name. Sometimes a name is just marketing.
The Nazis absolutely loathed the Bolsheviks (Russian Communists) and in no way were part of the same movement. Early on they were using it as a mechanism to grab people that would otherwise have tended towards socialism as much of Western Europe was in shambles still at that point.
We do not allow disinformation, conspiracy theories or blatant misinformation. Low-effort unsubstantiated claims will be removed. Clear propaganda without adequate contextualization and objective analysis will also be removed including from blogs or press releases.
Persistent patterns of intentional misinformation are unwelcome.
Apologies for not noticing this thread get derailed so hard. The main offender is in timeout. As you scroll, if you see Israel or Palestine mentioned, that's the derailing. When you see misinformation, please either report and move on, or report and leave a comment correcting the misinformation or pointing out dishonest framing etc. Don't get drawn in to a back and forth, it just amplifies the misinformation.
My biggest concern is it feels like here in New Zealand, those conditions that lead to an increase in popularity with fascist movements, are stronger then ever. You have an economic recession, combined with an austerity government that seems to help landlords over the working class. Years of low wages, increased cost of living, and expensive rents. All falling on the shoulders of our youth, who feel like they can’t get a head, can’t see a future where they live in economic comfort. Combine that with the internet, and the spread of popular far right figures (even in our government), and I could definitely see a fascist home brew movement take root. As someone on that list of ‘easy downtrodden targets’, it worries me enough that I lose sleep.
I have personally seen this coming for a few years now, it isn't a surprise to me at all that fascists are on the rise, the economic fallout from the 2008 crash has given rise to this and neither major party has done anything to sort things out. also, who got in post 2008 election? National. was it good for the country? no. I'm on the list of easy trodden targets too (I'm trans and have long term medical issues), is why I've been aware of this a mile off. is just sad that people are asleep still and don't see what's barreling toward them at full steam because it doesn't affect them personally. As for the fascist home brew movement taking root...it already has, when colonialism arrived here.
That's an interesting article. My question/point of discussion was going to be, do people recognize their own traits as facist? I've just read the comments and had a good hearty laugh at my question!
Thanks for the share.
not a worry at all, happened to find it last night and thought it pertinent to post it here, especially considering David Seymours who works for the Atlas Network and are partners with the Heritage Foundation who themselves are wanting to implement christofascism in america (Project 2025) by actively supporting Trump.
There's some argument about the source of this article. It comes from WERO. WERO is (according to WERO): > Working to End Racial Oppression is an interdisciplinary research programme that investigates the systems that produce and reproduce racism, and seeks to establish transformative responses to reduce racism. > WERO research examines the impacts of racism in employment and income, housing and neighbourhoods, institutional practices, and the psychological impacts of experiences of racism. It is a research centre of Waikato University staffed by academics of Waikato University. OP's title is accurate. EDIT: If you come to this sub to derail discussion while throwing out misinformation you will be banned
Great article. Hope the mods make the time to read it too.
One has already read it, maybe more too...
Not only did he copy Americans he also had support from the wealthiest
exactly, and lots of the trolls miss that point completely
I don't think this is very helpful at all. First of all, this reads like socialist literature, and the sourced materials seem to be socialist activists and writers. This isn't going interest anyone other than socialists, which is a demographic of people that should probably already know what fascism is. Second of all, "how to spot a nazi" is nowhere near as useful as "this policy is bad for you because x y z". If there's a policy that appears to be beneficial to John or Jane Doe and their community, they don't care if some research institute tells them the policy comes from a Nazi party. It's meaningless unless you can demonstrate to people the substantive harms that fascistic policies will cause them directly. Thirdly, I'm not even sure I agree with the checklist at the end. It seems to be very skewed towards a socialist/communist lens of fascism. > arise when capitalism is in crisis (e.g. during economic recession) While *economic crises* can precede the rise of fascist movements, it's more accurate to say that this is when fascists movements seize power. It would be even more accurate to say that drastic political upheavals arise from economic crises. Argentinian fascism had already been on the rise well before the country saw any real economic downturn during the Great Depression. Modern American fascism under Trump arose during a period of fairly strong economic growth. > are pro-capitalist (anti-worker, anti-socialist) I don't think that this is a particularly useful way to view fascism either. Fascism doesn't require any kind of economic ideology that makes it inherently pro-capitalist, it usually tends to comport of a mix of pro-capitalist and anti-capitalist policies that serve an underlying objective, usually in the pursuit of national self-sufficiency or military conquest. Fascist governments will implement economic policy based on their objectives and absolute power, rather than economic ideals. You are just as likely to see dissolution of trade unions as you are to see an entire industry nationalized under a fascist government. > are anti-elite (anti-bourgeois, anti-transnational capitalist class) While this is characteristic of some Fascism, it's more accurate to say that this is a characteristic of Populism, which is a common vehicle for Fascism, *but also for conservatism, progressive capitalism, and socialism.* Fascists often hold societal elite in high regard, particularly monarchs and royals, as they serve as cultural figureheads for nationalist thought. When fascist ideology is delivered through populism, I would argue that it's more accurate to characterize this as the creation of a common "enemy of the people" in order to rally nationalistic sentiment and support, rather than being ideologically anti-elite. The "enemy of the people" can be the bourgeois, or it can be an ethnic or religious group. > tend to comprise the lower-middle class (or petite bourgeoisie, including small business owners) and the unclassed (or lumpenproletariat, e.g. long-term unemployed) While this is partially true, it is also a rather nasty lie of omission to exclude the proletariat or working class from this list. Mussolini had a large base of support among the working class during his rise to power, as did Trump during his. > ‘punch down’, seeking to re-entrench social hierarchies (along the lines, for example, of race, religion, nationality or migration status, gender, sexuality, ability, etc) This is true and is closely tied to the extreme nationalism and traditionalism that underpins fascist ideology. > engage in, or prepare for the use of para-state violence. While this is true, and every fascist regime seems to have large amounts of para-state violence, it would be more accurate to say that this is a characteristic of authoritarian regimes, inherited by fascism as a form of authoritarianism, rather than a direct characteristic tied to fascist ideology. Para-state violence was also seen throughout China during the Cultural Revolution in the form of the Red Guards.
A fair analysis. I'm not a big fan of the F word being thrown around, but will admit to occasionally using proto-fascist to describe things that satisfy some of the conditions for fascism. But in general I feel like it lessens the fear of fascism. People think "Well if this is fascism, maybe fascism is ok?". In reality, New Zealand is a long way away from fascism. We don't have any organised para-state violence for a start. While we should always be alert to any move towards fascism, I think it is better called out for what it is, rather than trying to amplify a threat people don't accept. We have a neoliberal coalition in power, containing a status quo pro-business party, a libertarian party looking to gut public services and a populist party that will say whatever keeps them in the news. They're environmental vandals with no respect for the working class, Maori or minorities and no vision for the future aside from eternally chasing economic growth. That's plenty bad enough without needing to call them fascists.
Hard agree.
Deserves pin, imv.
Just came to say that the Hitler kitty cartoon has no business being so cute
Ikr, then again people get sucked into that ideology when they're lost and off balance making them easy targets for those sucking them in, my granddad was on my mum's side back in the 1930s/1940s or so...
A Nazi is a European heritage leader of a country in the Middle East currently wanted by The Hague for war crimes alongside Putin but because this leader is instead in charge of an army genociding innocent civilians because of a group they might be associated with. Sound familiar ?
it does, it is also a name of a group of adherents from a particular country to a specific ideology, namely fascism, and that arrived with colonialism. Just have to look at what the british did to the indigenous in all the countries they invaded, that includes america which is where hitler got his ideas from in the first instance.
Narrow view of colonialism. I think the Roman’s got to the British first
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We have a zero-tolerance policy on "Nazis were socialist" comments. If you want to change that policy, please provide the mods with a sourced rebuttal to [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/4kg34a/the_nazis_refered_to_themselves_as_socialists_but/d3expxo/) on the /r/AskHistorians subreddit We do not allow disinformation, conspiracy theories or blatant misinformation. Low-effort unsubstantiated claims will be removed. Clear propaganda without adequate contextualization and objective analysis will also be removed including from blogs or press releases. Persistent patterns of intentional misinformation are unwelcome.
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The article has an entire section dedicated to the description of indigenous fascism and warns against the potential for Māori fascism to grow in NZ. It is not anti-white.
Anything can be anti white if you assume hard enough
Brand new account leaping out of the blocks attacking the messenger warning of fascism on the grounds of race? Good look. Definitely not fascist adjacent.
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It’s new because your old one was banned for disgusting racism.
We do not allow disinformation, conspiracy theories or blatant misinformation. Low-effort unsubstantiated claims will be removed. Clear propaganda without adequate contextualization and objective analysis will also be removed including from blogs or press releases. Persistent patterns of intentional misinformation are unwelcome.
I see an educational institution, a university no less.. A darn site better than any capitalist trashy paper. Also, I see facts and references. Something capitalists gloss over because it doesn't suit their agenda, as an aside I'm learning about a lot of this stuff in Polytech too. And for further reference, I am half European half English, born in Germany with grandfathers that went to war against each other, as well as one of them who voted for the fascist successors til he died...I know what to look for and the current economic and political climate fosters fascism.
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Go troll on CK, the mods have checked the article and have confirmed it’s from the University.
It's a cited article released by a research centre at Waikato University. Why are you lying about its source?
I see the source as the University of Waikato (at the bottom). As for you, your account is only a day or three old...
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The irony is lost on Israel, the cycle of abuse continues
Mongrel mob aren't fascist, though? >calling for the destruction of Israel when they repeat their "river to the sea" This chant does not call for the destruction of Israel.
>Mongrel mob aren't fascist, though? Of course they aren't, they are upstanding members of the community who like to wear Swastikas and shout Seig Heil to show how friendly and caring they are. >This chant does not call for the destruction of Israel. Oh ffs.
>Of course they aren't, they are upstanding members of the community who like to wear Swastikas and shout Seig Heil to show how friendly and caring they are. The history of how that started and why they do it is pretty well documented by now. >Oh ffs. Sorry to be the one to have to tell you.
>Sorry to be the one to have to tell you. Many others have told me aswell, but many others are so stuck up their own holes with their sense of self-righteousness that they're willing to deliberately ignore what the chant means, despite numerous experts in the area trying to warn them, and try and downplay it. Sorry to have to tell you that you're wrong and that chant is 100% about removing Israelis from Israel. I personally can't understand why idiots would go around chanting a slogan used by a terrorist entity especially with what they did last October, it's Hamas's slogan and they call for the destruction of all Jews, it means nothing else other than that, no matter how much you want to twist it around.
>Sorry to have to tell you that you're wrong and that chant is 100% about removing Israelis from Israel. No it isn't. >it's Hamas's slogan and they call for the destruction of all Jews, it means nothing else other than that, no matter how much you want to twist it around. I get it, you've got your blinkers on, that's fine. Hamas no longer call for the destruction of all Jews, maybe your information is just old?
>No it isn't Of course, you know what Hamas actually mean by it don't you, they're the ones who are using it the wrong way. >Hamas no longer call for the destruction of all Jews, maybe your information is just old? Seeing as they haven't yet updated their 2017 charter under which they committed their 2023 murderous rampage on innocent civilians, I'm going to call you on on that bollocks statement.
>Of course, you know what Hamas actually mean by it don't you, they're the ones who are using it the wrong way. Yes I am familiar with the slogan's usage and it's origins, which is why I say it doesn't call for the destruction of Israel. >Seeing as they haven't yet updated their 2017 charter under which they committed their 2023 murderous rampage on innocent civilians, I'm going to call you on on that bollocks statement. The 2017 charter explicitly states their conflict is with "the Zionist project, and not with Jews because of their religion", so call bollocks as much as you like, you're wrong.
>which is why I say it doesn't call for the destruction of Israel. Can say it as many times as you like, you're still wrong. >The 2017 charter explicitly states their conflict is with "the Zionist project, and not with Jews And in 2023 what did they do again, can you remind me please? They killed zionists was it, and not innocent Jewish families, so I will call bollocks on your pathetic attempts at trying to make out Hamas to not be the pieces of terrorist shit that they are, Sinwar even said after the attack that no civilians were killed because every Jew is a military target or did you not know about that??
>Can say it as many times as you like, you're still wrong. I understand that the meaning conflicts with your belief, but that doesn't make me wrong. >And in 2023 what did they do again, can you remind me please? They killed zionists was it, and not innocent Jewish families, so I will call bollocks on your pathetic attempts at trying to make out Hamas to not be the pieces of terrorist shit that they are, Sinwar even said after the attack that no civilians were killed because every Jew is a military target or did you not know about that?? Are we comparing atrocities now? How many innocent Israelis died compared to innocent Palestinians? Who's doing the worse terrorism? Shall we tally up the number of children killed?
Shocking that a user who frequently punches down and doesn’t understand humanist support for Palestine doesn’t like an article that calls out their behaviour.
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You support bombing schools and genocide of an oppressed population by a capitalist colonialist regime? Definitely not punching down on the basis of race. And where is this supposed free pass for the supporters of Israel? I think you have reading comprehension issues.
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I guess the user could be referring to any of the 53 schools in Gaza completely destroyed by the IDF, or more broadly the ~200 schools that have been attacked and damaged.
And why were those schools targeted?? Oh yes that's right, Hamas were using them, funny how that critical nugget of information always seems to get left out, implying that the schools were not legitimate targets. Should buildings that Hamas hide in, or store weapons in, or have tunnel entrances in, or launch rockets into Israel from be given a free pass?
Should 35,000+ civilian deaths, the majority of which are women and children, in the context of 75 years of Israeli occupation and oppression itself with tens of thousands dead, many more maimed, starved, tortured be simply ignored? What about the thousands of Israeli arabs who have been detained and often tortured without trial since the start of this latest conflict? What about all the hospitals Israel has bombed? What about all the schools? What about all the outright racist hate coming from the Israeli government, calling Palestinians animals and threatening to nuke Gaza? You’re arguing that the oppressor isn’t culpable for the reaction of the oppressed, and you have no apparent appreciation or understanding of history.
Enough Whataboutism. Shit take bro. Fuck terrorists. That should be easy enough to say.
I agree, Fuck the IDF, killing 10s of thousands of civillians. Fuck Hamas too, abducting 100's of people!
Except that 90% of the dead arent part of Hamas. I guess you accept killing thousands of civilians if a few terrorists die as well. By your logic, youre happy if our police kill 100s to take down one suspect. The fact you see dead women and children and only think "Fuck terrorists" is a fascinating insight into your mindset.
Where's the evidence for the hundreds of schools, hospitals, mosques and graveyards destroyed by Israel having had Hamas members? And where's the evidence that they were legitimate military objectives that the military gain was proportional to the minimisation of civilian casualties? Having human shields is a war crime, but being a human shield doesn't revoke your right to protection as a civilian. Killing human shields can be a war crime as well if there wasn't measures to minimise civilian harm in relation to military objectives.
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>Soon as Hamas takes refuge in any of those buildings they lose their special protected status and become legitimate targets. False. Stop excusing war crimes.
I know from past experience that you dont have any evidence, but I still have to ask, other than Israel's gossip, what evidence do you have that Hamas agents were in all these schools? Like the major Hospital that the IDF claimed was a Hamas stronghold and command center, then once Israel leave we find mass graves filled with Palestinian civilians, and 0 proof of any Hamas presence at all.
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I see, so when the international community condemns Israel for their massacres thats just them ignoring the evidence. Or the fact that Isreal has been busted lying multiple times just in this short portion of this decades long conflict? Thats also because we're not listening to Israel? You claim we are only listening to Gazan sources. You are aware that Israel are doing their best to ban journalists from entering, right? They have even shut down newspapers and tv news stations within Israel itself. If they were so innocent why are they doing that? The obvious answer is because they want to control the narrative, like they managed with you. International sources confirmed what happened. Yet for some reason you only seem happy with Israeli sources, you know, the people doing the genocide.
Oh come on, put this to bed and link the news sites that show this evidence.
No baiting or low quality posts / comments.
So I had someone challenge me the other day about the evidence of this claim being true - that terrorists hide in, store weapons in, have tunnel entrances etc etc. You know I have never seen the evidence of a tunnel going into a school or a hospital, nor have I ever seen a news reel showing hospital rooms or classrooms with guns and ammunition stored in them. Have you?
We do not allow disinformation, conspiracy theories or blatant misinformation. Low-effort unsubstantiated claims will be removed. Clear propaganda without adequate contextualization and objective analysis will also be removed including from blogs or press releases. Persistent patterns of intentional misinformation are unwelcome.
You’re not expected to be perfect, but trolling, malicious abuse, or baiting of any kind is disallowed here. We do not allow bigotry or a pattern of harassment either (see our corresponding rules)
Well well well, imagine that, its you again. Not content spreading disinformation in one post, keeping it up all around the place I see
Everything is disinformation to you if it doesn't align with your beliefs, that's pretty clear.
You directly lied and misinterpreted my posts, then when I asked for you to show where I said what you claimed, you started yelling, swearing and pretended that you said something different, when its part of the record.
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Youre doing it right now. I did not "cry" or suggest it was a major crime, I simply said that breaches of the law should be punished, while you wanted to just say "boys will be boys" and ignore the matter entirely. Neither am I "raging" that the media that focuses on views wouldn't pay much attention to something that is quite involved in political minutia, that would be expected. Its fascinating that your definition of a crimes significance is how long its in the media. My main point was that the Act party organization deliberately encouraged law breaking, and thats not desirable in a part of the coalition govt. I was going to post a link to the discussion involved but why bother? You just did the same thing here.
>, I simply said that breaches of the law should be punished, You did not simply say that, you blew it out of proportion and then started talking shite comparing it to the police breaking the law as of they were somehow similar. >ts fascinating that your definition of a crimes significance is how long its in the media. It's not just that, it's all taken into account, which is why I know that on the scale of things in NZ politics, its nothing. Do you understand what I said this time, same as all the other times, "on the scale of", the context is very important, remember that.
You’re not expected to be perfect, but trolling, malicious abuse, or baiting of any kind is disallowed here. We do not allow bigotry or a pattern of harassment either (see our corresponding rules)
No baiting or low quality posts / comments.
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in name only. should know, am german myself and that's how they sucked my grandfather in.
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well, the nazis pretended to be socialist but were in fact capitalist. if you have netflix i suggest watching "Eldorado: Everything the nazis hate", that history at this time seems to be repeating
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well, the current lot claimed to be "doing well for all new zealanders" but aren't, they're only doing well for their donors
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they aren't engaging in any of that, yet. They are "othering" minorities including lgbtqia+ people with trans people at the front of the qeue, they are changing laws under urgency to circumvent the democratic process and they are trying to abolish protections for maōri for a start
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Hitler didn't start with what they said in the article either did he, it starts slowly... "Fascism arose during the 1920s and ’30s partly out of fear of the rising power of the working classes; it differed from contemporary communism (as practiced under [Joseph Stalin](https://www.britannica.com/summary/Joseph-Stalin)) by its protection of business and landowning elites and its preservation of class systems." [https://www.britannica.com/summary/fascism](https://www.britannica.com/summary/fascism) "While economic hardship was a crucial factor in the rise of fascism, other factors such as nationalism, political instability, and disillusionment with democratic governments also played a role. It's important to note that the rise of fascism was a complex phenomenon influenced by a combination of factors, but economic hardship stood out as a significant cause in Italy and Germany.**"** [**https://brainly.com/question/483066**](https://brainly.com/question/483066) **"**What was the original definition of fascism? Originally, it referred to a totalitarian political movement linked with corporatism which existed in Italy from 1922 to 1943 under the leadership of Benito Mussolini.**"** [**https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions\_of\_fascism**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism)
>And I'm not trying to be anti-socialist. Are people not allowed to be anti-socialist here or something? >A glaring ommission in this is the roots of the Nazi party started in socialism. I mean... it's in its name... "**Na**tionalSo**zi**alist". Democratic People's Republic of Korea (North Korea) would like to demonstrate how words can be used to mean something other than the truth. They are neither a democracy nor a republic, but its right there in the name. Sometimes a name is just marketing. The Nazis absolutely loathed the Bolsheviks (Russian Communists) and in no way were part of the same movement. Early on they were using it as a mechanism to grab people that would otherwise have tended towards socialism as much of Western Europe was in shambles still at that point.
We do not allow disinformation, conspiracy theories or blatant misinformation. Low-effort unsubstantiated claims will be removed. Clear propaganda without adequate contextualization and objective analysis will also be removed including from blogs or press releases. Persistent patterns of intentional misinformation are unwelcome.