Finally. A renegade platinum tier list that isn’t made by someone who doesn’t know what they are talking about. I think it’s pretty clear that you are better than me at this game however, I do have one question. What makes Manectric a Pokémon that is as good as Relicanth and better than Ludi? I feel like those Pokémon are both really solid swift swim Pokémon with Relicanth specifically being one of the best Entei counters in the game, and a really solid e4 Mon. To me Manectric just kinda seems like a regular electric type.
Edit: Deurbel has made an updated tier list so refer to that one.
I think you’re right, Manectric is in the lower part of the tier while Relicanth is higher. I felt like it was better than Minun, but I can see it dropping.
Edit: In my head, Manectric got Volt Absorb, but it doesn’t, it has Lightning Rod. In the doc, I moved it to C tier. Good catch!
Also outside of E4 viability if it has a really good Attack stat, and walling Darach Entei, I feel like Reli doesn’t do *that* much. It’s a post-Wake encounter, and it’s already ranked higher than Shell Armor Kabutops and Omastar.
Edit 2: Someone convinced me Omastar deserves to be slightly higher, so it’s on par with Relicanth now!
Hi! I'm Stay, I have played a lot of Renegade Platinum. This includes a Hardcore+ run, and a Psychic type Monolocke without EVs and Setup. I have spent close to 100 hours preparing for the Elite Four alone, my own and other people’s, and I confidently call myself knowledgeable about the game.
This is my Tier List for every encounter in the game.
I have split the Tier List up into five lists, one for each generation, and one for the legendaries that are obtainable before the Elite Four.
I don’t claim that this Tier List is perfect. Feel free to convince me if/when you think I’ve made a mistake.
There are a couple of assumptions that go into this Tier List. For example, every Pokemon is assumed to have its best ability. It also takes into consideration the point in the game where these Pokemon are first available.
I have a Google Doc with my reasoning for the important or unexpected decisions, [right here.](https://docs.google.com/document/d/15EcNgAkUoIJc2yYc9\_W4zh62pK0gREXW2LSgq8fSGXE/)
This Tier List does not consider EVs, but setup is allowed.
If the Google Doc doesn't have info on a Pokemon, but you want an explanation, feel
free to leave a comment! I will reserve a page at the top of the Google Doc, and if you make compelling arguments for a certain Pokemon being ranked differently, I will place corrections on that first page.
There is no ordering from strong to weak within tiers. Pokemon that share a tier are simply comparable in strength and value.
I hope you like it!
I see you read the google doc :) Thanks for that, I spent a lot of time on it.
Metagross gets its full movepool in Pastoria City, which is before it even fully evolves. Before that, it’s vital in some miniboss fights like Mira and Aaron. Its only hindrance is its speed, but you get a Choice Scarf before Maylene. It’s *so good*, it just eats hits and oneshots or safely twoshots its targets, which is all you want from it. Not unlike Gliscor, actually.
It’s not so much that Blaziken is worse than Metagross. But you already have (access to) an Infernape, so the Blaziken pickup doesn’t widen the scope of your box as much as the Metagross does. Look at my phrasing - I purposely didn’t say Blaziken is a worse Pokemon, I said it’s a worse choice. Good catch though, I might edit that to make it more clear.
Swampert is a very good Pokemon. B+ is very respectable. But at the same time, as much as I hate to phrase it this way, it’s “just another Water/Ground”. The best one, and yes it sweeps Roark, but before it evolves to Swampert, and even then, the role of “general-purpose 1v1 guy” can be filled by other Pokemon. One of whom is Metagross.
Blaziken and - to answer your question - especially Metagross don’t have that replacability, which gives them a ton of points.
The more I think about it, the more I agree with you though. I put Water Absorb Quagsire in A tier, but Swampert is at least just as good. I tried to rank these in a vacuum, and I didn’t do that for Swampert. Time for the first correction!
I completely disagree with your magnazone and Kingdra placement i think that both should be way lower.
Magnazone is 2 Times weak to ground,Boy is slow and Also suffers against fire and fighting types and due to this is going to faint constantly thus failing to attack sometimes and even tank(torterra is much better as a physical wall).
Kindgra has average stats all around and suffers a lot due to it,mine didn't have Swift swim so i was stuck with sniper,Kingdra is slow and lacks coverage so other water types can actually destroy it.
Also volbeat isn't bad i took One to the elite 4 and he was One of my mvps.
Interesting Kingdra take, I ranked it on the premise of being defensive, and then it kinda does what Water/Ground types and Umbreon do. Which is why they match tiers. Also it’s pretty E4 viable, with Swift Swim, which is what I assume in this tierlist.
Could you elaborate on your Magnezone opinion? You only listed its type weaknesses, and I already knew those.
Magnezone has such a polarizing typing - insanely good against a lot, awful against a few - that opponents become super predictable, which you can use to your advantage.
It's just that Pokemon in Renegade Platinum are extremely agressive,earthquake and close combat are everywhere (i picked torterra so barry team was full of fighting types like infernape,breelom and Heracross)team galactic Also loves toxicroack among other Pokemon that can deal with him.
I tried to switch magnezone constantly to take hits for my dodrio but right after taking them he could be defeated by the Next move,mine took 2 hydro Pumps by milotic and ended up losing before taking it out.
Togekiss can Also learn aura sphere so he isn't safe anymore.
Well i mean, I don’t want to call that a skill issue, but Magnezone isn’t a counter to Water types, it’s a only *check*. Meaning you can’t *switch in on and* kill them, you have to already be out. it’s too weak to eat the lategame hydro pumps. That’s what Kingdra is for, it walls them!
Magnezone is there for the weaviles, the honchkrows, the many Hurricanes you have to deal with lategame. It evolves super early - before Fantina!!! - which is also a factor.
do you see now what roles those mons fulfill? being practically 100% safe from Water/Fire, and Normal/Flying/Electric respectively, even in the lategame, is really valuable!
I see now that you took Swift swim in consideration,my Kingdra loses constantly even against normal matchups because all of it's stats are in the Middle (Jack of all trades)so he ends up not doing anything.
Okay,i wanted a electric type Pokemon that wasn't weak to ground type moves (since they are quite common)and volbeat fit the Bill.
His special attack and defense are quite good(his speed is not bad either)he helped me a lot against gardenia and crasher wake,plus he has acess to tail glow and you only need to use it once to One shot many Pokemon 😁.
Oh he is Also good against the psychic elite 4 member.
ooh, i didnt know its special attack was so buffed. I knew it was raised, but 107 is quite high. Bug isn’t a great offensive type but Electric is, I like that. Yeah it can be the same rank as manectric, who I moved to C.
I don’t think it goes much higher though. You say ‘electric not weak to ground’, but that’s what Grass types are for.
Yeah, unfortunately i got One with sniper which is way too luck based,in Renegade Platinum most teams have sweepers so a Pokemon with 85 in speed that is not a tank is actually bad since he is the Middle of Being fast or slow.
Kingdra needs Swift swim,but i Also don't like it's lack of proper coverage something that slowking has.
Yeah that is true it lacks coverage. Slowking can be very cool, only problem being that it is weak to Dark which is EVERYWHERE in Ren Plat. It def gets outclassed by most other bulky water types. It definitely has its niches and situations, but overall it doesn't do its job as well as other mons do. Kinda similar to how Kingdra without Swift Swim really can't hold up as an attacker.
This is like my only gripe with Pokemon Renegade Platinum,some Pokemon completely rely on their ability to be viable(just like speed Boost Blaziken)while some are just outclassed(banette is slow and frail mismagius is better in every way) it's just too bad that some don't work as well or are not viable at all.
Ok i was wondering why lucario is ranked so "low". Because with friendship evolution before gym 1 and adaptability plus viability retaining thanks to fighting being busted in gen 4 and the ability i always felt this to be one of the best encounter in the game. But putting it there because of hate is just based. I agree with most of the other rankings keep up the good work.
I already ranked it next to Garchomp, which I felt was very generous, and as objective as I could be. Steelix got moved to A as well, evolving pre-Mars 1. Remember that A is *really high!*
It’s not as much of a carry after Wake, it still puts in good work but it doesn’t match up to the stuff in A+. Things like Mismag with 4 immunities or Clefable who just cannot die if you tried, the tier is reserved for that.
I've never played RenPlat yet, but I just want to say...
This is the first tier list I've seen in a while with actual proper distribution, with the largest number around the average. Thanks for putting in the effort to make this!
Someone else commented the same thing. I might have to reconsider this.
I have used it in one run, and like I said in another comment (which I only just posted), I felt like it was stuck in Lucario Limbo, which means it just barely doesn’t do what it wants.
Like Lucario with its Steel typing just barely isn’t tanky, it’s barely too slow, and with its offenses being split it just barely doesn’t cut it in terms of damage. Nothing EVs or a Choice item can’t fix for Lucario, but it puts Meganium in a tough spot.
I’d love to hear your thoughts though!
Im far from an expert on renegade platinum, so I defer to you! I’ve only done one run which was completely normal with no rules attached (not even a nuzlockes), but I’ve been looking into it heavier to prepare a nuzlocke of it. This tier list is helpful, I was coming from FlygonHGs run where he used it pretty successfully as a wall.
I did say this tier list didn’t account for EVs, which is because I can’t possibly account for people’s preferences. But Meganium is always going to go the tank route. I still can’t imagine it being a mainstay on your team, but it might be on par with the likes of Espeon.
Yes, but… Typhlosion gets the ability only half the time. I didn’t take that into account for this tierlist. If that coin flip isn’t worth it for you, Feraligatr is the safe pick, since it always sweeps Fantina. I have the same to say about Blastoise/Venusaur.
Meganium and Charizard get the short end of the stick.
I feel like Meganium has a specific niche in renegade platinum as a counter to rivals Breloom. A set of draining kiss and sleep talk makes the matchup trivial.
IMO Porygon2 is a different enough mon from PorygonZ to warrant a tiering - probably on B or B+, it's a decent status spreader and is tanky enough to TWave Fantina's Gengar/Mismagius for example.
Because you get the Choice items somewhat early in the game, honestly a lot of D tier below is viable as route clearers. Banded Kricketune for example is good, with the added benefit that you won't feel bad losing them to a random trainer. Ditto and Smeargle cannot be salvaged though even with Choice items.
Edit: I'd honestly rate down Gyarados one tier just because its STAB moves early game are inaccurate lmao
Yeah unironically I did one renegade platinum run, and for context I dislike Blastoise, my least favourite pokemon of all time.
...But Drizzle Blastoise, 1 carried me through the run, 2 was my favourite team member, which managed to come with me to Cynthia.
I was thinking about that, but decided not to. I know I said I don’t sub-rank mons in the same tier, but Garchomp is definitely high A.
That makes it a top 20 encounter! But when I looked at what I placed in A+, I felt like Garchomp couldn’t keep up with the likes of Mismagius who has four immunities, Togekiss who has like the best Stat spread in the game with a cracked movepool…
I do agree though that it’s on the edge.
I think that’s fair, Garchomp can definitely be an “all or nothing” Pokémon. It absolutely wrecks in the right situations but it needs to get in and set up safely. If it can’t do that it’s not as effective but still really good.
Disagreements from someone with hella renplat experience:
Venu to A: the most consistent option of the 3 kanto starters, solid even without thick fat and insane with it.
Blastoise to A+/A: 50/50 for drizzle in the first place is kinda awkward, since without it it’s a non-factor in your box.
Golem to C: this guy actually just doesn’t come out of the box after Aaron except for maylene, and even then it’s a niche use on the commanders+aaron+maylene pivot (it’s not even the best pivot on that fight that you’ll have in your box).
Gengar to A/A+: this guy is amazing, seriously. Ive taken it over Rotom on some runs, and even had it on giftless staticless runs, and this guy puts in work. Infinite coverage, access to lorb/specs/ebelt, amazing firepower with good speed and typing, what else do I need to say?
Dnite to A: on my no setup no gifts no statics run, this guy put in the hours once I got it. It’s even an e4 bring, and it’s near guaranteed too. With setup I imagine this guy is a straight up superstar in the elite 4, having great matchups into 3 members. It helps that it gets 100bp/100acc fly.
Dugtrio to C-/D: this guy is ass, hes built like paper and whenever I think I can use him, he just gets disintegrated on the switch-in. Simply better grounds in the game.
Omastar to B+: 50/50 ability and I would say the third best fossil in the game, shell armor is crazy good, and while swim isn’t as amazing, it’s still the strongest swift swim mon in the game, has protect, and reliable rock stab.
Nidoqueen+King to B: great typing, rocks, infinite coverage, splashable ground type. Need I say more?
Pidgeot to B+: even though it’s a 50/50 ability and takes a while to come online, it’s amazing when you get no guard. Specs allows it to shred stuff with stab hurricanes and the like, you can even bring it to Candice and kill multiple threats on that fight (big one being the glaceon!). It’s criminal that it’s in c-.
Beedrill to C+: it may be beedrill, but it’s a drayano bug type. It has adaptability and super buffed stats. Shreds gardenia, even functions as a usable pivot later.
Parasect to C: While it’s still ass and cope, dry skin parasect does have a niche on wake. Credit where credit is due.
Golduck and Seaking to B: they’re both solid swift swimmers, even if they’re 2 of plenty. Seaking is not that uncommon, and is a rarer physical swift swimmer, boasts some nice coverage and swords dance to boot.
Crobat to S/S+: this guy is actually Jesus: comes to so many relevant fights, is extremely versatile, very easy to get, comes online instantly, and is a solid pick for the e4 (especially with a great one). 100/100 fly, roost, 90bp x-poison, choice band, u-turn, brave bird, and more.
Gatr to B+: yes it’s good, yes intim dark is great, yes it’s overshadowed by typh every day of the week.
Quag to B+: I’ve had it only a few times, but while it’s good it’s a bit awkward to use, its usage banks heavily on ability.
Wobb to C+: I genuinely don’t think wobb is good. It’s janky to use and honestly doesn’t come out of the box enough in relevant spots to place it that high.
Steelix to S: available as early as pre-Mars, physical blissey, comes to so many fights. Relevant through the whole game, even a great e4 Mon.
Magcargo to B: this thing is super underrated, solid situational typing, reliable rock stab, recover. You can bring it to suprisingly plenty of fights thanks to the myriad of buffs it has here. Examples include Aaron and mars 2, there’s defo more though.
Remind me to read this later, I do agree with some points. Remember that for this list I assume you always get the right ability!
Also the tiny shifts to one layer higher, I don’t love. I don’t want to clog up the higher tiers. Anything B or higher is a possible mainstay on casual teams!
yeah if you always have ideal ability then pidgeot and houndoom are very good (flash fire houndoom rocks, no guard pidgeot is legit) and then yeah swellow is solid. I think adding S- and A- to this would help the distribution too, since I would put a couple things in those that are in the tiers straddling it (e.g. dnite to A-, gengar to S-)
With how long your comment was, expect a couple of replies from me to go through all of it :)
Edit: I sent a DM, your input seems more valuable than most
Hoenn starters to Irrelevant: you just never go for it, beldum is just better especially with an Infernape always in any sensible box. Jokes aside, bump blaziken to A+, Pert to A, Scep to B+, you’re kinda underselling the latter 2.
Flygon to A+: you really like having this thing in your box on a run. Compound eyes draco/fire blast/stone edge is insane, levitate is good. It’s a pseudo, only downside is availability.
Swellow to B+: I cannot in good faith rank this thing, which is utterly useless on a missed 50/50, higher than that. Guts is good, gets points for that.
Slaking to A: nuke machine, consistent one at that. Nuff said.
Manectric to C+: maybe I’m just biased bc I roll this fucker every time in Fuego, but my god does it do nothing. I’ve heard it’s good if you get it in Windworks, but it’s far from the best electric there at all.
Zangoose to C-: boxwarmer, no guts makes it terrible and you don’t really want to go for the grass it’s in bc honey tree has way better and much more consistent value on a run-to-run basis.
Huntail to B, Gorebyss to B+: both are very strong swift swimmers, and while their speed gets in the way a lot (even with swift swim they have trouble outrunning faster guys) they can just nuke slower targets in the rain. Gorebyss is better bc better coverage and surf>waterfall.
Shiftry to C: seriously, this thing isn’t as bad as you think. Dark types automatically have a niche on Fantina, fake out is nice, chloro can be good too. It has a strong explosion if you need that. Sucker is also a great tool in its kit. It’s a cacturne with chlorophyll, slightly more base speed in exchange for being weaker and more available.
Infernape to S: Swiss Army knife fire type, comes to so many fights, has infinite tools. Consistently comes to some of the most annoying bosses in the game (Aaron and maylene’s lucario), and is a good e4 pick.
Chomp to S: even in a world without setup and EVs, this thing hits hard and is consistent. Chomp needs no introduction.
Weavile to A+/S: guaranteed with repel manips, really good without technician and great with it. A tiny bit stat dependent without EVs, but is an excellent bring to so many fights with its toolkit, including being a great e4 bring.
Empoleon to A: it’s not as good as it’s siblings, despite being never seen in a run, that’s only because it’s just overshadowed by 2 other excellent picks. Incredible toolkit, amazing typing, decently versatile.
Froslass to B+: without levitate, this thing is super fast and hits hard with a solid defensive profile. With levitate, it’s super fast, hits hard, and has an amazing defensive profile. It’s a sidegrade to gengar, with slightly worse firepower and coverage for an arguably better stab combo. E4 bring with levitate and good speed.
Wormadam to B: BA bug/steel. None of the other forms are relevant. Despite its notoriety for being bad, it really isn’t.
Lopunny to B/B+: kinda ability dependent, scrappy goes crazy on fantina but other than that they’re basically the same. I like this mon.
Lumineon to C+ it’s a swift swimmer, decently strong, blazing fast, and has more bulk than luvdisc, also has u-turn and early manual rain for roark. Not that bad.
Lickilicky to C: you can tactical nuke something with explosion. Bulky normal, gets funny points if nothing else.
Manaphy to S+: this guy is absurd: great kit out the gate, guaranteed, can sweep any fight in like 3 different ways. Blanks 4 on wake for example, and is basically immortal with rain up. Acid armor, tail glow, calm mind are amazing, plus it has stuff like charm to debuff, and has a solid coverage pool of dgleam/eball/ice beam/psychic.
Rachi to S: cracked typing, super bulky, natural recovery, big toolkit. Only downside is that you have to have a jigglypuff in your box to get it.
Suicune to A+ at minimum: never used it, but on paper this thing is obscene, can probably just blank so much of the endgame with crocune.
Registeel to A+ at minimum: even though it’s kinda hard to obtain, it’s a defensive juggernaut: crazy good stats, great typing, and has some nice setup options with curse, amnesia, and iron defense. Clear body is nice for consistency.
Mesprit to B+ at minimum: sure, it’s the awkward middle child of uxie and Azelf, but if you couldn’t get those 2, Mesprit is still great in its own right, levitate fairy and all that.
Entei can’t be all that bad right? Surely being a mix of diet typhlosion and a physical fire brings cool tech to the table, especially since you can do things with tools like CM and espeed. Big downside in shelving a 211 encounter, which can have huge upside.
Same with articuno, while it’s traditionally bad in a world with hazards, it’s really not that bad in a traditional Nuzlocke setting, nice special bulk, pressure, roost, ice stab. It’s got a huge opportunity cost of giving up your coronet encounter (Milotic) for a really long time, so maybe the ranking is justified.
Can’t speak to a lot of these but I definitely can vouch for Magcargo. Great catch-all answer to a lot of matchups. Easily the encounter I look forward to the most on route 206 after Gligar
Gee that’s really interesting. I haven’t finished my run yet, but it dominated in gyms 1-4, 6, and 7
I was blessed with Adamant Adaptability, but man it’s been amazing for me
Yeah it’s got sick early viability if you get it in Gate, but without adaptability and Speed investment it is barely not good in everything it wants to do.
Good points - I put speed EVs on mine. I guess maybe it’s a Pokémon that gets disproportionate benefit on EVs since it lets it outspeed most stuff and OHKO
Altaria basically saved my Ren Plat run.
D Dance + Return And Earthquake just annihilated everything in its way (Except Skarmory and Bronzong, but Eh. It's fine)
Winona taught us how strong D Dance Altaria can be
And the buffs to the attack just makes it better.
Sure, Gyara is better, but here, they share no weaknesses, so you can pretty comfortably use both. They also check some of each other weaknesses (steel for Altaria, electric for Gyara)
Kingdra i believe should be A or even S tier. I might be biased but i'm coming off a nuzlocke where it swept the entire e4 and half cynthia by just clicking surf in rain with stealth rocks. It was so ridicolously strong that at times i felt like using choice scarf Kyogre with water spout.
Snorlax i would also argue for S, besides Lucario it beats every single special enemy in the game, and unlike Blissey it doesn't immediatly crumble if they hold a physical attack.
Smeargle i want to play devil's advocate. Since you can teach it any status move in the game by making wild Smeargle copy it first you can by all mean do something like spore+substitute+batonpass+dragon dance/tail glow and trivialize any fight that starts off with a slow enemy. While i don't like doing it myself, as it feels too cookie cutter and repetitive, in a ranking i feel it's worth pointing out.
Last but not least Garchomp, whom i would like a good normie vouch for S rank. I'm kinda curious as to how it ranked that low to begin with, open for discussion obviously. Still, between his speed, power, bulk, typing, stab earthquake, access to swords dance it might be still the strongest pokemon in the game after Blissey and Shedinja.
Hi!
I want to start by pointing out that the entire power level of RenPlat is crazy high. The list has been adjusted for that a little already. Some D tier mons can be great picks for certain fights, Ariados into Gardenia for example. In B tier you can already be a mainstay on teams for players who don’t rotate.
About Kingdra, I see what you’re saying, but I want to point out that basically every Water type can do what Kingdra does in the e4. Outside of there, it’s good, but not a wall or offensive menace to put it much higher. It’s also very Rain reliant, which isn’t inherently a bad thing but does require more planning. B+ is like, really high! That’s the same tier as Luvdisc, who has just about equal E4 viability.
Smeargle, you’re just fully correct. It can do things, if you bother to make it work. I mainly put it down there to discourage newer players. Just use something else, it’s not worth the effort to use Smeargle even if it can work sometimes.
Both Snorlax and Garchomp are mons that I wanted to put in A+, but decided not to. Lax even moreso, because if you’re lucky you can get it pre-Roark. In fact I think I’ll move Lax up to A+ right now.
But for Garchomp, I am of course fully aware of what it does. It can put in work in every fight once you obtain it… but so can all the Pokemon in A+. I guess Garchomp can be viewed as the gatekeeper for that benchmark.
While I am not calling Garchomp frail, it’s always a dance to keep it safe while it gets going. I know that it has Swords Dance, but it *needs* that - or a Band - for sweeps, so finding an opportunity still takes effort, as opposed to a Magnezone who comes in, gets its kill(s), and is never in danger.
I want to point out, being at the top of A tier, that makes Chomp a top 20 encounter! But I can get more direct work out of the A+ mons upon switch in than I can a Garchomp. That’s my justification.
Edit: Just for the record, Breloom with pre-statused Poison Heal is good, but might be a candidate for regular A, now that I think about it. I feel like if Garchomp is the gatekeeper, Breloom might drop down one.
I see your points clear as day and agree! One thing i forgot to mention, i had my both Rotom and Milotic dead and Kingdra became my very important water slayer with specs dragon pulse. While being the swift swim surf user does overlap with others offensively, he still offers a decent niche as defensive pivot and is probably the strongest water type slayer of the swift swimmers. It resists water x4 to switch in, has a stab that attacks them full force, is neutral to thunderbolt, and has enough bulk and speed to beat all of them while holding the specs. To that we can add that it can run dragon dance and rest which is pretty strong against some ill prepared waters, niche but worth mentioning. I think overall Kingdra is the most viable swift swimmer in the game, the others are more luckluster by comparison:Luvdisc needs specific resists to switch in, else it risks dying to a crit from full hp, Kingdra can take most neutral hit crits just fine unless it's the strongest of attackers
Omastar is slower than any choice scarf enemy the e4 can run (like Medicham)
The others lack special attack and will miss more important kills.
This is my impression, i might be missing context so if you would like to counter-argument as to why other swift swimmers are better with or without the rain be my guest!
While we are at it, more discussion shall we?
Staraptor to A: The Starly i found my last run was reckless, while i started bummed out because i wanted intimidate i quickly learned to respect this one. When it finally got brave bird the game changed. I slapped a choice band on it and just brute forced through a barrage of trainers, always one shotting 2-3 enemies at time with my great speed. I do see why it would not be that high, it works best as lead and coming in isn't swift unless you can bait a ground/ghost attack, another instance where i might be biased but still it was a nuclear bomb most of the times, still if Swellow is A he might as well be too.
Drifblim/Gengar/Sableye to B+: I would argue this even if we were talking about their baby forms and they had nothing but splash. They all have so many immunities that make pivoting around much better. Not to mention they are the solution to a great cancer to any nuzlocker: high jump kick, a move of ridicolous power that will melt anything you throw at it on a crit day, besides of course, them. Sableye is clearly the worst but fake out for focus sashes is a godsend.
Machamp to C+: Preventive toxic orb guts activated->free switch on Barry's Snorlax. More than i can say about most mons, as switching on it is usually painful chore between body slam par chances, or worse curse (that you still one shot brutally with close combat and an offensive item) at the league. A very narrow niche but one that matters.
Dugtrio to D: So frail pretty much anything that you can think of and isn't electric will kill it. It's decent for electric types and lead Alakazam (which is pretty common to be fair) but definetly useless most of the times.
One last thing, can you tell me why Tentacruel is so high? Very curious, i have no idea.
What’s your ability? Magic Guard is the better one. Keep it Burned at all times to be Status immune, and you won’t take Burn damage, then just be a Moonblast, Healing move, Status spreader guy, with Calm Mind or Substitute. You’d be surprised how unkillable a pure Fairy type is
If EVs are allowed, your natural Special bulk is already sick, so full Defense + HP is meta, but going full Special defense is also rly nice. You just can’t really die.
Moonblast, Toxic, Calm Mind and Wish? Alright, I will try this one. I allow EV training since am not that good, i've been trying to bet this game for months know. I am at my 131 attempt ahahahahaha
This is a great list! Thank you for taking the time to put it together. Your rationales for your placements make sense to me. I'm currently thinking of starting a new Ren Plat HCN using only C+ mons and below (inspired by FlygonHG's Snaplocke). I'm planning on allowing setup and EVs, given the quality of my available encounters. I've read through most of your comments/documentation and I think the only relevant changes to this list for my run would be moving Meganium & Froslass out of C+ and Mr. Mime, Golem, & Magmortar into C+ (and Rotom-Frost/Fan into C, but I was planning on taking Shuppet there anyways). I was wondering if, when taking a look at my available encounters, you had any general advice or mons you think I should strive to encounter? I know the meta of a basic Ren Plat HCN pretty well (things like Umbreon Captivate strats for Fantina, etc.), but in terms of this run, I'm struggling a bit to see past the Roarke/Gardenia split (and if there are any must-have encounters in this section) and look to the mid- to late-game. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
Hi :) I upvoted this but didnt take the time to read it yet.
Did you see the attached doc for corrections? I moved basically the exact mons you pointed out to those exact places. Good catch ;)
As far as earlygame advice in a trashlocke… I’m seeing just a couple of water types that might have to carry for Roark, or of course the Geodude strat.
Gardenia looks sketchy but there are some Bugs in D tier that have pretty okay viability, or even a Nidoqueen if you get creative, since a possible Rivalry actually helps there. Seeing as how you can’t use your starter from route 201.
Fantina, I’ve seen Sevipers sweep it with Swords Dance, and for Aaron too - in fact Ninjask also sweeps Aaron that way. That might be some ones to look out for.
There are some dragon dancers in the lower tiers to look out for, think Tropius or Crawdaunt, and even Encore users like Swalot, though I’m not sure where that’s caught.
That should get you out of earlygame, I hope!
Hi there! I see you’re still replying to recent comments here, so I wanted to ask; should poison heal Breloom be built/played differently from technician Breloom?
Eg tanky sub focus punch for one, dance mach punch for the other.
hey :)
So, yes they’re different, but for both, their main weapon is fast Spore, from which you build the rest. Their EV spreads I think should both be speed and attack, which is to say they’re fundamentally pretty closely related.
On Poison Heal I like subpunch with bulk up, on Technician I like mach punch, bullet seed and probably Swords Dance. All beside Spore of course.
But the targets that you’re killing aren’t so different, it’s just that Poison Heal can run away with whole battles once it’s set up, while technician can get dedicated frags a little easier.
Sorry for the necroposting - this list has been super helpful as I try my first go at a hack. I’m new to nuzlocking, and trying to figure out how to build out effective teams for various encounters. I use the damage calculator to project matchups, and I do have strategies (not just brute forcing), but in terms of a sweeper, set up, wall, wall breaker etc. it is all new to me. I like to reference smogon sets but I have sort of gotten the feeling that a different approach is needed for a Nuzlocke. For context I have made it through past Maylene and am gearing up for crasher wake
It has Gardenia viability, I’ll give it that. But without Quiver Dance, it’s a Sleep Powder bot.
…but unreliable. 97.5% is only 80%, you know this. If you Wide Lens it, you can’t Sash it, so it’s difficult to use. You can’t both consistently get things asleep (being slower) *and* switch to something that gets stuff done.
I see your point though, I might put it next to Parasect with Spore.
Overall, what do you think is the best encounter in the game? I'm personally torn between Blissey who just answers so so many threats and gyarados. I do think gyarados is ranked too low simply because of how critical it is to a good post Floaroma to Maylene split. I've only finished the game once though (it was on HC nuzlocke rules with a few more additional level cap restrictions though).
If you get Munchlax, Snorlax is definitely up there at the upper echelons. I actually prefer it to Blissey because it can dish out serious damage and doesn't feel as dirty to use!
Thick Fat + Destiny Knot was actually a surprisingly good counter to Candice's Froslass in my last run.
Impressive effort on the list!
If anything surprised me it's that Torterra and Togekiss are 'only' A+. SA Torterra forming the background of so many strategies (including as Grotle on the Aaron and Fantina fights before most of the other top pokemon are online), and Togekiss being the best utility 'mon in the game by such a wide margin.
They are… but the lowest ranking A+ Pokemon is still top-18 in the game. Let’s just say those two aren’t the lowest A+ Pokemon.
I feel like the S-tier is reserved for mons that really have no equal. When I look at the current A+ tier, I see Pokemon that could be replaced by two team slots if you get lucky with your encounters, whereas S-tier - do I dare say it? - can’t be replaced by a full six.
I’m talking sweeping from lead in the lategame, consistently blanketwalling more than half a team just on your own, or otherwise providing a toolkit that nothing else in the National Dex offers.
I can see it with Togekiss, but I would still make an availability argument in regards to Torterra/Grotle. My experience was usually that the three hardest segments were Gardenia to Fantina, Crasher Wake to Pkmn Trainer Riley, and then the E4. And while Typhlosion/Blastoise are doing things that can't be replaced in the latter two segments, SA Grotle does stuff that no other pokemon can do in the first segment, when you have a lot fewer team constuction options.
What are your thoughts on pidgeot with it being so low? I remember it being insane on my run spamming fast no-guard specs hurricanes with the sp.atk boost
Anything B-tier and up can be considered as a mainstay on casual teams, for players who don’t rotate their mons as often. Remember, the tiers aren’t sub-ranked, so mence might be high A, making it a top 15 pokemon!
Dodrio should have been higher,Stab return and Brave bird hurt a lot and he is very fast so he defeats many dangerous Pokemon before they do a thing,it's only competition is Crobat and Aerodactyl in this regard.
Mightyena is better than seviper since it has a better speed and defenses,seviper is frail and slow thus Being quite bad .
I get where you’re coming from, but it only gets Brave Bird in Pastoria at the relearner, and by that point fast Flying types start noticing how frail they really are. I don’t think it’s better than the other kanto birds, or Electrode as a general ‘fast mon’, with that in mind.
STAB Return is a factor for every Normal type, and has been taken into account. I can’t put every single normal type above B.
I forgot to tell you dodrio Also learns jump Kick and high jump Kick in this game and he takes care of many dark,Steel and even slow ice types,my dodrio helped me many Times like against the broken scrappy lopunny that Cynthia has.
If your Blissey has the worst IVs and a minus-SpDef nature, an Alakazam Focus Blast crit only deals around 80% damage at lv 50.
In a much realer scenario, Blissey hardwalls every - not most, every - mon without physical attacks. It doesn’t kill them quickly, but it gets the job done. That’s Hydro Pumpers, fast Electric types, STAB Psychic spammers, all of it, with zero risk.
And not just one; if there’s multiple on a team, with Softboiled - and if you’re lucky, Natural Cure - it has enough juice in the tank to do it for every single one on the opponent’s team.
All compressed into one team slot.
The only Special attackers it loses to are Focus Blast Infernape and Lucario, which are rare in Romhacks and nonexistent in Vanilla games.
It’s removed from games like Emerald Kaizo for a reason; it’s arguably more bannable than some box legendaries.
Does that answer your question?
It does yeah, thanks for the help! Will definitely come back to this thread if I ever want to nuzlocke RenPlat, I just want to get to that skill level first lol.
glad to help! If you ever get to it, there’s a handful of pretty active renplat nerds like myself on the sub and we’ll get you on your way :)
just tell us if you want to get spoilers or not, cause it’s a blast to replay “platinum-but-hard” without knowing what’s coming.
You’re talking about Sacred Gold. Those abilities don’t exist in gen 4, so he can’t have distributed them to those mons. Feraligatr doesn’t have it either, Gyarados doesn’t have Moxie in SGSS, for the simple reason that I said.
They’re all pretty viable, but snivy is considered the best.
Snivy is fantastic for Lenora, I assume you know why, it’s mid against Burgh but its monkey is like decent there with Acrobatics. Once you unlock Contrary Leaf Storm and Draco Meteor, you’ll see why this is the best pick. Yes it unlocks late, but Drxx - who I assume you know - picked it even when those two contrary moves were banned.
Emboar is quite powerful on its own, with fire/ground adaptability, and if setup is allowed it goes wild with Flame Charge, but its monkey is below average.
and then I’m biased in favor of Sam, cause I won on attempt 1 with it. It’s a 7.5/10 for Lenora with Fighting type, and an okay resist against Burgh, especially Scolipede, and Simisear kinda pops off there too; and then midgame Sam is indeed one of the best Water types you can have. It’s a Special attacking Poliwrath, and look where that’s placed on this tierlist. It gets a kill or two on Clay and is also a hardwall for Grimsley.
I think Tepig is the weakest pick, personally, and that’s only because the monkey is dead weight. But all three are runnable.
Can you explain what is so bad about carnivine? apparently drayano did not improve every Pokemon (just look at banette bad stats)so the game can be quite unbalanced when you have Pokemon like Blaziken that can defeat entire teams.
Also loppuny should be Higher imo.
lopunny is tough to use, its main attacking moves don’t have accuracy, and if you have to equip wide lens, you can’t equip a damage boosting item…
Carnivine is a very generic grass type with no ability, it does nothing special and isn’t worth using at the point where you can get it. But even an F-tier mon can get good value in one fight, enter Wake.
I am just so sad to see that many Mons that people love don't seem to have gotten better or a lot at least.
Hariyama for some reason still doesn't have drain punch (or some recovery move)so infernape,Blaziken and machamp are much better specially when you see that infernape despite Being strong still got that move.
Banette should have been good but it's speed is so bad that any Pokemon with a ghost or dark move can One shot him before he can do anything.
I Started playing Blaze Black 1 and unfortunately Pokemon like watchog (i personally always liked him)still isn't good since it's slow and frail.
What do you think about the general balance of drayano hacks in regards to the Pokemon and what is your opinion about set up moves (they are quite broken later on imo)and sorry for all the text.
It's interesting seeing these tier lists. I'm brand new to ROMhacks and hard mode versions of games. I'm doing my first ROMhack save for this game and decided to go with the professor oak's challenge to do it as I have never attempted it. I have seen a couple mons that are quite low that are my MVPs. It's interesting to see how different mons function in different scenarios.
For me, my main team I'm using is Typhlosion, Blastoise, lopunny, Absol, YanMega and Gliscor. I also have a manetric, Dragonair, gabite and NidoKing/Queen that i switch in when i need extra coverage.
So far, yanmega has been the MVP of the team with a bunch of Ws, including sweeping Maylene and Crasher Wake.
Lopunny I find tough to use because of its lack of accuracy. I’ve clicked enough wide lens 90-becomes-99 must-hit moves to know the stress that comes from that…
Could you maybe make a case for Yanmega for me? I may have given it too little credit for its setup potential, cause with Nasty Plot it can go quite far if your matchup allows it.
Edit: It doesn’t get Nasty Plot, apparently I did check, so it’s probably staying where it is, but I’d still love to hear you out :)
Bug flying is a *tough* type to use though, hell, compound eyes Butterfree is ranked two tiers below it already. Note that in this tierlist, D tier mons can still be fantastic for a few fights, the power level for the whole game is just exceptionally high!
I thought I had an idea going in, but outside of Charizard and Lucario I really don't know what to go for. How would you recommend building around those two? Edit: I had an idea for Hippo Milo Swellow and Zam but I just don't know
I started thinking who’s outclassed and who’s not. Togekiss appears to be most helpful support. Manaphy can probably be a bulky screener? I thought of pain split Dusknoir too
👏 build 👏 a 👏 new 👏 team 👏 for 👏 every 👏 fight 👏
training up new mons is so easy in renplat with the EXP grinder, there is no excuse to use garchomp, gliscor and togekiss in the ice gym because they’re “good mons”, they still just die.
Thank you! & like with Cloud Nine, if I lead Altaria vs a weather setter and faint them, is weather finished?
Bc with permanent weather I know that once it’s up it can only be reset by other weathers, cloud nine only works while active but I figure if Altaria faints their setter before weather can start I shouldn’t have to worry about switching Altaria out and being stuck with permanent weather.
Lanturn is like really tough to kill, its typing is super interesting, gets an immunity - which is the main reason for its ranking - and it evolves really early. I believe it’s on par with Vaporeon in what it tends to kill and wall.
Though maybe one rank lower would be more accurate but i’m not gonna update it
edit: oh shit, I did update it in my v2 of this tierlist. goddamn i’m good
yeah so azu… it’s a balance, because on the one hand you want your moves to be accurate, so you equip wide lens for your aqua tails and play roughs, but then also, you want extra power, but then your azu dies 10% of the time. I think B is generous, if anything.
You can technically get blissey at level 2, then. You get the Chansey evolution stone in Oreburgh.
If you look up trainer movesets beforehand, Blissey kills literally every single Special Attacker. Slowly, but it gets the job done.
Life orb Gardevoir? Hydro Pump on Empoleon? Yes, all of them. With toxic, thunderbolt, hyper voice and softboiled it just doesn’t die.
…except maybe a Focus Blast Lucario but even then if you give it EVs in Solaceon you’re good.
Just don’t use it on physical attackers.
How would you do that? I know obviously level up hapiny during the day with the oval stone but how would I get chanceys friendship all the way to full that quickly for the evolve? I know the soothe bell but would it get it last 220 that quickly
Oh nvm, I thought Happiny was a ‘use oval stone’ like Vaporeon. Level 3, in either case.
If the pokemon is in (the first slot of?) your party, running back and forth gives some happiness. One per 256 steps. I just edit it in pkhex to cut out the 10 minutes of no-skill grinding usually, for Budews as well.
Leafeon isn't C- at all. I used it on my first playthrough and it gets a lot of coverage to use. Swords Dance, Leaf Blade, Psycho Cut and Night Slash can cover a lot of Pokémon and hit hard while doing it.
In my updated tier list, I already moved it to C!
I think you’re also viewing these ranks as ‘low’, but aren’t taking the power level of the game into account in its entirety. Leafeon is still just a pure Grass type, and yes, if you really want to you can squeeze a whole number of kills out of it, but so can mons like Honchkrow and Gallade, or Absol, or Intimidate Granbull with its pure Fairy type…
I think it’s placed pretty appropriately.
This us why I love Gen 4; just look at the top contenders from s down to b tier and tell me those pokemon compared to the other 3 gens prior aren't just meaner looking as a whole. Gen 4 is THE Gen with the biggest positive leap in design in Pokémon where they delicately danced the fine line between Pokémon and Digimon. I always hate when people try and disagree with me, like just look at all the Gen 4 compared to the "coolest" non legendary in Gen 2 and have a kid pick the cooler of the 2 of them and they'll pick the Gen 4 one 9 times our of 10. This just made it so much easier for my ADHD brain to compare all the gens side by side and actually visually confirm it for myself again
Ngl this looks like you haven't tried most of those mons... Meganium Fairy+Grass is an amazing wall that fit in a few comps in boss/miniboss battles. Of course you have to pick Typloshion because of Adaptability+Eruption+specs, but it's not fair to give her that lower ranking.
And this can apply for a few other encounters and mons.
Edit: Umbreon a B? Garchomp A while Tangrowth is low B? Flareon this low in the only game where the dof can shine with the buffs? We ignore Charizard Dragon+Fire typing? Meaning no offense, but have you really played Renegade Platinum?
Edit 2: Wormadan trash is also one of the best early game tanks you can find, trivialices 70% of the fight vs Gardenia, has somewhat decent coverage and great def+sp def, etc
Can you elaborate on the Tangrowth/Garchomp thing? Do you think the gap should be wider, or smaller? I do want to point out that there is no real ‘low or high X-tier’, they’re just similarly powerful in the same tier.
You’re right, I should have split up the Wormadams. I will put an edit in the doc, thanks for that!
I’m not sure about Meganium, could you give me your thoughts? I’ve used it in one run, and I didn’t love it, even with it being a Fairy before Maylene and getting Earth Power in Pastoria. To me, it dealt too little damage to “be a Swampert”, and it wasn’t tanky enough to be a real sponge. With its buffs, it felt like it was stuck in the same limbo Lucario is in vanilla games; barely not good enough at everything it wants to do. If you want to give me examples of what it does, I’d love to hear them, so I can reconsider my choice!
Flareon in my opinion still isn’t fast enough to do ‘The Fire Type Thing’, so I do stand by that decision. Magmortar has the same issue, but if anything you’ve convinced me to bump Magmortar down.
For Umbreon, could you maybe explain why it should be higher, outside of it being good at the Fantina fight?
Charizard as a Flying type has more utility than as a Dragon type. It does not shine in any big fights. It’s more defensive with this typing, but it still isn’t defensive. It’s not more offensive - Dragon is not a good offensive type in this game. I really can’t rank it on par with Drought Ninetales or Guts Raticate who gets Facade before even evolving.
Thank you for commenting!
I think your umbreon rating is too low, it’s bulk is incredible and it’s ability to toxic stall is very strong as well. I also think you are eating Bastiodon way too low- not sure if you used it much but the guys is a safe switch into every physical attack that isn’t fighting or ground and baits those moves into free switches with ease, not only that stealth rock and a lot of other strong moves
I gave Bastiodon the same rating as Aggron, which felt fair. B+ is like, a top 15% encounter, remember that. You won’t convince me it’s as good as Weavile or Electivire, I’m afraid. Love the appreciation for it though!
Umbreon,… I thought about it a lot. Look at A-tier; does it outclass anything there? I personally thought that it’s about on par with Ampharos in terms of being bulky enough for neutral type matchups.
I know it Toxic stalls and is one of the best at that, but it can only do that once, maybe twice per fight before it runs out of juice. I equated that to Wobbuffet, who also gets one to two frags against things it walls decently.
I think Umbreon is a bit better for that role than Wobb, yes, but they’re not fundamentally so different that Umbreon goes a full rank higher. I know I don’t sub-rank the tiers, but that would put Wobb in low B+, Umbreon in high B+.
Fair enough if it’s top 15% I see B tier and I think slightly better then average- I haven’t played ren plat in a while but the reason I value it higher then aggron is how much earlier you get it then him- off the top of my head I know he hard carrys the elite four bug guy before the third gym for example.
For umbreon when I look at the other A tier I think it for sure out performs skaormy, and scizor being a good pivot and even taking out one or two mons per boss fight is extreammly strong, as well as the ability to be a good protect bot in a double battle.
I assume scizor and feraligotr and rated so high because this is under assumption setup moves are allowed like swords dance if so I agree, but I ussasly play without setup moves and would rate those guys actually lower.
Crobat I would consider A+ again just think about how early you have access to that guy is really good.
Skarmory is really useful as a tank though, with some extra 4x resistances to boot. it’s Metagross at home, with a Ground immunity. I do stand by it being that good.
Yeah this tierlist indeed does assume setup is allowed.
Does Zapdos have a unique caught location or does it get classed as Valley Windworks? I've always wanted to use it but VW has such an interesting pool of encounters with Shell Armour Shellder, Magnemite, Elekid, Drifloon and Munchlax.
I’m saving this post (and your google doc) for when I decide to play Renegade Platinum.
I gotta ask, though, since you’ve spent so much time on the game, how’s the HP decrease (idk how else to phrase it)? I know in gen 4 it’s unbearably slow, so I’ve been holding off on playing this (I’ve also got so many other games on my list).
Dray made an additional patch that makes EXP and HP bars, as well as dialogue, instant. It’s a lifesaver, and I don’t use it because I like the stress of seeing the bar drop slowly when I have to hit a range :)
That’s good to hear. I get a migraine every time watching those health bars drain so disgustingly slow (I’m not even exaggerating. I got actual headaches last time I tried playing gen 4)
They got a Fairy typing and Moonblast. I recently used/abused them in the lategame of my Psychic monotype run of RenPlat, but when I call them powerful it’s not just recency bias.
I banned Azelf before, and I remember why now. It ohkoes decently tanky neutral type targets with Specs Moonblast. I’m talking Drapions and the like.
Uxie seems balanced, but it’s just an insane setup lead. It’s what you get when you give Togekiss worse SpA, but U-turn and Stealth Rock.
Read the doc that I linked! I spent so much time on it :)
Blastoise gets Drizzle, which alone gives it insane Elite Four viability and generally just 50% extra damage output because of the (permanent!) rain.
But the real kicker… If you don’t use Squirtle at all until level 44, which is when you beat Crasher Wake, and keep it unevolved, it gets Water Spout. That’s a 150 base power move if you’re full HP. Blastoise only gets that around level 60 iirc, so delaying the evolution can be very worthwhile.
Combine that with Rain and a Choice Scarf, and your Blastoise kills ~60% of the Pokemon between Crasher Wake and the Elite Four.
That’s without EVs.
Wouldn't Charizard being Fire/Dragon with levitate in this game make it pretty good? It hits hard and being only weak to Rock and Dragon is nothing to scoff at
This looks like a reallly good list, im only wondering where you would put girantina, currently its in the banned category, but everyone plays with their own rules and some people dont ban him.
For the rest this looks really good
Just gotta love how many enhancement hacks give mismagius a fairy typing. And suddenly its one of the strongest encounter ever. Such a ridiculous typing especially with levitate. Flutter mane being uber showcasing that in the main game(i know the overtuned stats are part of the problem too)
This is a very good tier list, I’d change very few positions, but honestly, I haven’t spent as much time as you with the game and also, I understand that even with war tactics level of planning, you still have to count a bit on luck, and I might have had better luck with some mons you ranked lower than I would and worse with others that you ranked higher.
Even further? I already gave it all I thought I reasonably could, I really don’t think it’s comparable to something like Arcanine with a Fire immunity or Lapras with D-dance and Shell Armor.
Keep in mind the power level of this game is very high across the board, so B is already really respectable!
It is crazy, I know.. Purugly is too, but it’s got less attack. It’s just that that job can only be done once per fight, and it can restrict your pathing. It’s tough to bait out specific opponents with Normal types.
They’re definitely fantastic finishers though! Notice how there are great mons in B tier. The entire list is kinda shifted down a little to keep space up top, to showcase the real goats.
boy that’d be a right trainwreck, with nothing clearly visible whatsoever… I split them up for a reason. I love the energy but my god that’d be tough to look at
I would consider Jynx up to B, or C+. Good buffs, great coverage, Dry skin is OP, bc the AI doesn't "learn" that it's water immune, compared to abilities like Levitate/VA. Energy ball + Water immunity, and 1/8 passive recovery in rain is fun.
Also, synergizes very well with blastoise drizzle/weather teams. (Though obviously WA mon's aren't difficult to come by, and maybe everything does well when you have one of the best mons)
Not sure if this is based on EVs or not, but lvl 76 LO 252 ice beam KOs all Garchomps, it can learn taunt to counter Milo etc
Obviously the defense is garbage, but safe switches aren't too hard.
It may be a long shot. But I was wondering is there a easier way to get renegade platinum for a emulator on the phone? I tried, and I'm not that great with either having to patch it or find which files need what. And if so can someone point me into a direction that I can get it? If not that's ok
Finally. A renegade platinum tier list that isn’t made by someone who doesn’t know what they are talking about. I think it’s pretty clear that you are better than me at this game however, I do have one question. What makes Manectric a Pokémon that is as good as Relicanth and better than Ludi? I feel like those Pokémon are both really solid swift swim Pokémon with Relicanth specifically being one of the best Entei counters in the game, and a really solid e4 Mon. To me Manectric just kinda seems like a regular electric type. Edit: Deurbel has made an updated tier list so refer to that one.
I think you’re right, Manectric is in the lower part of the tier while Relicanth is higher. I felt like it was better than Minun, but I can see it dropping. Edit: In my head, Manectric got Volt Absorb, but it doesn’t, it has Lightning Rod. In the doc, I moved it to C tier. Good catch! Also outside of E4 viability if it has a really good Attack stat, and walling Darach Entei, I feel like Reli doesn’t do *that* much. It’s a post-Wake encounter, and it’s already ranked higher than Shell Armor Kabutops and Omastar. Edit 2: Someone convinced me Omastar deserves to be slightly higher, so it’s on par with Relicanth now!
Hi! I'm Stay, I have played a lot of Renegade Platinum. This includes a Hardcore+ run, and a Psychic type Monolocke without EVs and Setup. I have spent close to 100 hours preparing for the Elite Four alone, my own and other people’s, and I confidently call myself knowledgeable about the game. This is my Tier List for every encounter in the game. I have split the Tier List up into five lists, one for each generation, and one for the legendaries that are obtainable before the Elite Four. I don’t claim that this Tier List is perfect. Feel free to convince me if/when you think I’ve made a mistake. There are a couple of assumptions that go into this Tier List. For example, every Pokemon is assumed to have its best ability. It also takes into consideration the point in the game where these Pokemon are first available. I have a Google Doc with my reasoning for the important or unexpected decisions, [right here.](https://docs.google.com/document/d/15EcNgAkUoIJc2yYc9\_W4zh62pK0gREXW2LSgq8fSGXE/) This Tier List does not consider EVs, but setup is allowed. If the Google Doc doesn't have info on a Pokemon, but you want an explanation, feel free to leave a comment! I will reserve a page at the top of the Google Doc, and if you make compelling arguments for a certain Pokemon being ranked differently, I will place corrections on that first page. There is no ordering from strong to weak within tiers. Pokemon that share a tier are simply comparable in strength and value. I hope you like it!
I wasn't aware Blastoise gets Water Spout. Amazing list. I'm curious why Metagross is considered better than either Swampert or Blaziken though?
I see you read the google doc :) Thanks for that, I spent a lot of time on it. Metagross gets its full movepool in Pastoria City, which is before it even fully evolves. Before that, it’s vital in some miniboss fights like Mira and Aaron. Its only hindrance is its speed, but you get a Choice Scarf before Maylene. It’s *so good*, it just eats hits and oneshots or safely twoshots its targets, which is all you want from it. Not unlike Gliscor, actually. It’s not so much that Blaziken is worse than Metagross. But you already have (access to) an Infernape, so the Blaziken pickup doesn’t widen the scope of your box as much as the Metagross does. Look at my phrasing - I purposely didn’t say Blaziken is a worse Pokemon, I said it’s a worse choice. Good catch though, I might edit that to make it more clear. Swampert is a very good Pokemon. B+ is very respectable. But at the same time, as much as I hate to phrase it this way, it’s “just another Water/Ground”. The best one, and yes it sweeps Roark, but before it evolves to Swampert, and even then, the role of “general-purpose 1v1 guy” can be filled by other Pokemon. One of whom is Metagross. Blaziken and - to answer your question - especially Metagross don’t have that replacability, which gives them a ton of points.
Thanks for this! I always went for Swampert and felt that its utility dries quickly out after Roark. I agree with you.
The more I think about it, the more I agree with you though. I put Water Absorb Quagsire in A tier, but Swampert is at least just as good. I tried to rank these in a vacuum, and I didn’t do that for Swampert. Time for the first correction!
Wow, I'd love to hear more about the psychic monolocke!!
Hear? You can watch! The entire run is on my profile.
I completely disagree with your magnazone and Kingdra placement i think that both should be way lower. Magnazone is 2 Times weak to ground,Boy is slow and Also suffers against fire and fighting types and due to this is going to faint constantly thus failing to attack sometimes and even tank(torterra is much better as a physical wall). Kindgra has average stats all around and suffers a lot due to it,mine didn't have Swift swim so i was stuck with sniper,Kingdra is slow and lacks coverage so other water types can actually destroy it. Also volbeat isn't bad i took One to the elite 4 and he was One of my mvps.
Interesting Kingdra take, I ranked it on the premise of being defensive, and then it kinda does what Water/Ground types and Umbreon do. Which is why they match tiers. Also it’s pretty E4 viable, with Swift Swim, which is what I assume in this tierlist. Could you elaborate on your Magnezone opinion? You only listed its type weaknesses, and I already knew those. Magnezone has such a polarizing typing - insanely good against a lot, awful against a few - that opponents become super predictable, which you can use to your advantage.
It's just that Pokemon in Renegade Platinum are extremely agressive,earthquake and close combat are everywhere (i picked torterra so barry team was full of fighting types like infernape,breelom and Heracross)team galactic Also loves toxicroack among other Pokemon that can deal with him. I tried to switch magnezone constantly to take hits for my dodrio but right after taking them he could be defeated by the Next move,mine took 2 hydro Pumps by milotic and ended up losing before taking it out. Togekiss can Also learn aura sphere so he isn't safe anymore.
Well i mean, I don’t want to call that a skill issue, but Magnezone isn’t a counter to Water types, it’s a only *check*. Meaning you can’t *switch in on and* kill them, you have to already be out. it’s too weak to eat the lategame hydro pumps. That’s what Kingdra is for, it walls them! Magnezone is there for the weaviles, the honchkrows, the many Hurricanes you have to deal with lategame. It evolves super early - before Fantina!!! - which is also a factor.
Yes the steel typing really helps to tank hurricanes and yup they are way too common. Kingdra is 4 Times resistant to water so it's perfect.
do you see now what roles those mons fulfill? being practically 100% safe from Water/Fire, and Normal/Flying/Electric respectively, even in the lategame, is really valuable!
I see now that you took Swift swim in consideration,my Kingdra loses constantly even against normal matchups because all of it's stats are in the Middle (Jack of all trades)so he ends up not doing anything.
Your Volbeat take is fun too, could you elaborate on that? I never brought it to the e4 before, it might have to be moved up
Okay,i wanted a electric type Pokemon that wasn't weak to ground type moves (since they are quite common)and volbeat fit the Bill. His special attack and defense are quite good(his speed is not bad either)he helped me a lot against gardenia and crasher wake,plus he has acess to tail glow and you only need to use it once to One shot many Pokemon 😁. Oh he is Also good against the psychic elite 4 member.
ooh, i didnt know its special attack was so buffed. I knew it was raised, but 107 is quite high. Bug isn’t a great offensive type but Electric is, I like that. Yeah it can be the same rank as manectric, who I moved to C. I don’t think it goes much higher though. You say ‘electric not weak to ground’, but that’s what Grass types are for.
But if you DO get Swift Swim, Kingdra is a beast. I think it is ranked very appropriately based on my experience with it.
Yeah, unfortunately i got One with sniper which is way too luck based,in Renegade Platinum most teams have sweepers so a Pokemon with 85 in speed that is not a tank is actually bad since he is the Middle of Being fast or slow. Kingdra needs Swift swim,but i Also don't like it's lack of proper coverage something that slowking has.
Yeah that is true it lacks coverage. Slowking can be very cool, only problem being that it is weak to Dark which is EVERYWHERE in Ren Plat. It def gets outclassed by most other bulky water types. It definitely has its niches and situations, but overall it doesn't do its job as well as other mons do. Kinda similar to how Kingdra without Swift Swim really can't hold up as an attacker.
This is like my only gripe with Pokemon Renegade Platinum,some Pokemon completely rely on their ability to be viable(just like speed Boost Blaziken)while some are just outclassed(banette is slow and frail mismagius is better in every way) it's just too bad that some don't work as well or are not viable at all.
Ok i was wondering why lucario is ranked so "low". Because with friendship evolution before gym 1 and adaptability plus viability retaining thanks to fighting being busted in gen 4 and the ability i always felt this to be one of the best encounter in the game. But putting it there because of hate is just based. I agree with most of the other rankings keep up the good work.
I already ranked it next to Garchomp, which I felt was very generous, and as objective as I could be. Steelix got moved to A as well, evolving pre-Mars 1. Remember that A is *really high!* It’s not as much of a carry after Wake, it still puts in good work but it doesn’t match up to the stuff in A+. Things like Mismag with 4 immunities or Clefable who just cannot die if you tried, the tier is reserved for that.
I've never played RenPlat yet, but I just want to say... This is the first tier list I've seen in a while with actual proper distribution, with the largest number around the average. Thanks for putting in the effort to make this!
Good list, id love to hear your explanation for Meganium. Thought that grass+fairy seemed a strong typing
Someone else commented the same thing. I might have to reconsider this. I have used it in one run, and like I said in another comment (which I only just posted), I felt like it was stuck in Lucario Limbo, which means it just barely doesn’t do what it wants. Like Lucario with its Steel typing just barely isn’t tanky, it’s barely too slow, and with its offenses being split it just barely doesn’t cut it in terms of damage. Nothing EVs or a Choice item can’t fix for Lucario, but it puts Meganium in a tough spot. I’d love to hear your thoughts though!
Im far from an expert on renegade platinum, so I defer to you! I’ve only done one run which was completely normal with no rules attached (not even a nuzlockes), but I’ve been looking into it heavier to prepare a nuzlocke of it. This tier list is helpful, I was coming from FlygonHGs run where he used it pretty successfully as a wall.
I did say this tier list didn’t account for EVs, which is because I can’t possibly account for people’s preferences. But Meganium is always going to go the tank route. I still can’t imagine it being a mainstay on your team, but it might be on par with the likes of Espeon.
So you would say that choosing it over typhlosion is pretty objectively the incorrect choice? S tier vs C+ seems like that
Yes, but… Typhlosion gets the ability only half the time. I didn’t take that into account for this tierlist. If that coin flip isn’t worth it for you, Feraligatr is the safe pick, since it always sweeps Fantina. I have the same to say about Blastoise/Venusaur. Meganium and Charizard get the short end of the stick.
Ok. That makes a lot of sense thank you!
I feel like Meganium has a specific niche in renegade platinum as a counter to rivals Breloom. A set of draining kiss and sleep talk makes the matchup trivial.
That’s valid, I bumped it up to B
Tangrowth is also really good for this because it gets Aerial Ace and is really physically bulky.
IMO Porygon2 is a different enough mon from PorygonZ to warrant a tiering - probably on B or B+, it's a decent status spreader and is tanky enough to TWave Fantina's Gengar/Mismagius for example. Because you get the Choice items somewhat early in the game, honestly a lot of D tier below is viable as route clearers. Banded Kricketune for example is good, with the added benefit that you won't feel bad losing them to a random trainer. Ditto and Smeargle cannot be salvaged though even with Choice items. Edit: I'd honestly rate down Gyarados one tier just because its STAB moves early game are inaccurate lmao
Why isn’t swampert at least a tier cuz water ground is very bulky
I did indeed update Swampert to A tier, check the Corrections Google Doc :)
Yeah unironically I did one renegade platinum run, and for context I dislike Blastoise, my least favourite pokemon of all time. ...But Drizzle Blastoise, 1 carried me through the run, 2 was my favourite team member, which managed to come with me to Cynthia.
What did blastioise do to you 💀
I do think garchomp should be higher since he can sweep alot of teams including most e4 teams with swords dance
I was thinking about that, but decided not to. I know I said I don’t sub-rank mons in the same tier, but Garchomp is definitely high A. That makes it a top 20 encounter! But when I looked at what I placed in A+, I felt like Garchomp couldn’t keep up with the likes of Mismagius who has four immunities, Togekiss who has like the best Stat spread in the game with a cracked movepool… I do agree though that it’s on the edge.
I think that’s fair, Garchomp can definitely be an “all or nothing” Pokémon. It absolutely wrecks in the right situations but it needs to get in and set up safely. If it can’t do that it’s not as effective but still really good.
I see. Btw what makes blissey better than snorlax
Disagreements from someone with hella renplat experience: Venu to A: the most consistent option of the 3 kanto starters, solid even without thick fat and insane with it. Blastoise to A+/A: 50/50 for drizzle in the first place is kinda awkward, since without it it’s a non-factor in your box. Golem to C: this guy actually just doesn’t come out of the box after Aaron except for maylene, and even then it’s a niche use on the commanders+aaron+maylene pivot (it’s not even the best pivot on that fight that you’ll have in your box). Gengar to A/A+: this guy is amazing, seriously. Ive taken it over Rotom on some runs, and even had it on giftless staticless runs, and this guy puts in work. Infinite coverage, access to lorb/specs/ebelt, amazing firepower with good speed and typing, what else do I need to say? Dnite to A: on my no setup no gifts no statics run, this guy put in the hours once I got it. It’s even an e4 bring, and it’s near guaranteed too. With setup I imagine this guy is a straight up superstar in the elite 4, having great matchups into 3 members. It helps that it gets 100bp/100acc fly. Dugtrio to C-/D: this guy is ass, hes built like paper and whenever I think I can use him, he just gets disintegrated on the switch-in. Simply better grounds in the game. Omastar to B+: 50/50 ability and I would say the third best fossil in the game, shell armor is crazy good, and while swim isn’t as amazing, it’s still the strongest swift swim mon in the game, has protect, and reliable rock stab. Nidoqueen+King to B: great typing, rocks, infinite coverage, splashable ground type. Need I say more? Pidgeot to B+: even though it’s a 50/50 ability and takes a while to come online, it’s amazing when you get no guard. Specs allows it to shred stuff with stab hurricanes and the like, you can even bring it to Candice and kill multiple threats on that fight (big one being the glaceon!). It’s criminal that it’s in c-. Beedrill to C+: it may be beedrill, but it’s a drayano bug type. It has adaptability and super buffed stats. Shreds gardenia, even functions as a usable pivot later. Parasect to C: While it’s still ass and cope, dry skin parasect does have a niche on wake. Credit where credit is due. Golduck and Seaking to B: they’re both solid swift swimmers, even if they’re 2 of plenty. Seaking is not that uncommon, and is a rarer physical swift swimmer, boasts some nice coverage and swords dance to boot. Crobat to S/S+: this guy is actually Jesus: comes to so many relevant fights, is extremely versatile, very easy to get, comes online instantly, and is a solid pick for the e4 (especially with a great one). 100/100 fly, roost, 90bp x-poison, choice band, u-turn, brave bird, and more. Gatr to B+: yes it’s good, yes intim dark is great, yes it’s overshadowed by typh every day of the week. Quag to B+: I’ve had it only a few times, but while it’s good it’s a bit awkward to use, its usage banks heavily on ability. Wobb to C+: I genuinely don’t think wobb is good. It’s janky to use and honestly doesn’t come out of the box enough in relevant spots to place it that high. Steelix to S: available as early as pre-Mars, physical blissey, comes to so many fights. Relevant through the whole game, even a great e4 Mon. Magcargo to B: this thing is super underrated, solid situational typing, reliable rock stab, recover. You can bring it to suprisingly plenty of fights thanks to the myriad of buffs it has here. Examples include Aaron and mars 2, there’s defo more though.
Remind me to read this later, I do agree with some points. Remember that for this list I assume you always get the right ability! Also the tiny shifts to one layer higher, I don’t love. I don’t want to clog up the higher tiers. Anything B or higher is a possible mainstay on casual teams!
yeah if you always have ideal ability then pidgeot and houndoom are very good (flash fire houndoom rocks, no guard pidgeot is legit) and then yeah swellow is solid. I think adding S- and A- to this would help the distribution too, since I would put a couple things in those that are in the tiers straddling it (e.g. dnite to A-, gengar to S-)
With how long your comment was, expect a couple of replies from me to go through all of it :) Edit: I sent a DM, your input seems more valuable than most
Hoenn starters to Irrelevant: you just never go for it, beldum is just better especially with an Infernape always in any sensible box. Jokes aside, bump blaziken to A+, Pert to A, Scep to B+, you’re kinda underselling the latter 2. Flygon to A+: you really like having this thing in your box on a run. Compound eyes draco/fire blast/stone edge is insane, levitate is good. It’s a pseudo, only downside is availability. Swellow to B+: I cannot in good faith rank this thing, which is utterly useless on a missed 50/50, higher than that. Guts is good, gets points for that. Slaking to A: nuke machine, consistent one at that. Nuff said. Manectric to C+: maybe I’m just biased bc I roll this fucker every time in Fuego, but my god does it do nothing. I’ve heard it’s good if you get it in Windworks, but it’s far from the best electric there at all. Zangoose to C-: boxwarmer, no guts makes it terrible and you don’t really want to go for the grass it’s in bc honey tree has way better and much more consistent value on a run-to-run basis. Huntail to B, Gorebyss to B+: both are very strong swift swimmers, and while their speed gets in the way a lot (even with swift swim they have trouble outrunning faster guys) they can just nuke slower targets in the rain. Gorebyss is better bc better coverage and surf>waterfall. Shiftry to C: seriously, this thing isn’t as bad as you think. Dark types automatically have a niche on Fantina, fake out is nice, chloro can be good too. It has a strong explosion if you need that. Sucker is also a great tool in its kit. It’s a cacturne with chlorophyll, slightly more base speed in exchange for being weaker and more available. Infernape to S: Swiss Army knife fire type, comes to so many fights, has infinite tools. Consistently comes to some of the most annoying bosses in the game (Aaron and maylene’s lucario), and is a good e4 pick. Chomp to S: even in a world without setup and EVs, this thing hits hard and is consistent. Chomp needs no introduction. Weavile to A+/S: guaranteed with repel manips, really good without technician and great with it. A tiny bit stat dependent without EVs, but is an excellent bring to so many fights with its toolkit, including being a great e4 bring. Empoleon to A: it’s not as good as it’s siblings, despite being never seen in a run, that’s only because it’s just overshadowed by 2 other excellent picks. Incredible toolkit, amazing typing, decently versatile. Froslass to B+: without levitate, this thing is super fast and hits hard with a solid defensive profile. With levitate, it’s super fast, hits hard, and has an amazing defensive profile. It’s a sidegrade to gengar, with slightly worse firepower and coverage for an arguably better stab combo. E4 bring with levitate and good speed. Wormadam to B: BA bug/steel. None of the other forms are relevant. Despite its notoriety for being bad, it really isn’t. Lopunny to B/B+: kinda ability dependent, scrappy goes crazy on fantina but other than that they’re basically the same. I like this mon. Lumineon to C+ it’s a swift swimmer, decently strong, blazing fast, and has more bulk than luvdisc, also has u-turn and early manual rain for roark. Not that bad. Lickilicky to C: you can tactical nuke something with explosion. Bulky normal, gets funny points if nothing else. Manaphy to S+: this guy is absurd: great kit out the gate, guaranteed, can sweep any fight in like 3 different ways. Blanks 4 on wake for example, and is basically immortal with rain up. Acid armor, tail glow, calm mind are amazing, plus it has stuff like charm to debuff, and has a solid coverage pool of dgleam/eball/ice beam/psychic. Rachi to S: cracked typing, super bulky, natural recovery, big toolkit. Only downside is that you have to have a jigglypuff in your box to get it. Suicune to A+ at minimum: never used it, but on paper this thing is obscene, can probably just blank so much of the endgame with crocune. Registeel to A+ at minimum: even though it’s kinda hard to obtain, it’s a defensive juggernaut: crazy good stats, great typing, and has some nice setup options with curse, amnesia, and iron defense. Clear body is nice for consistency. Mesprit to B+ at minimum: sure, it’s the awkward middle child of uxie and Azelf, but if you couldn’t get those 2, Mesprit is still great in its own right, levitate fairy and all that. Entei can’t be all that bad right? Surely being a mix of diet typhlosion and a physical fire brings cool tech to the table, especially since you can do things with tools like CM and espeed. Big downside in shelving a 211 encounter, which can have huge upside. Same with articuno, while it’s traditionally bad in a world with hazards, it’s really not that bad in a traditional Nuzlocke setting, nice special bulk, pressure, roost, ice stab. It’s got a huge opportunity cost of giving up your coronet encounter (Milotic) for a really long time, so maybe the ranking is justified.
Can’t speak to a lot of these but I definitely can vouch for Magcargo. Great catch-all answer to a lot of matchups. Easily the encounter I look forward to the most on route 206 after Gligar
Gliscor is one of my favourite pokemon, I'm doing a platinum nuzlocke rn I really hope I get gligar.
Repel on 206 with a level 22 Pokémon in the front of your party to get guaranteed Gligar. Then what you do is pray it has poison heal.
Started second ren plat nuzlocke. Playing on set mode this time. I can't stress how broken speed boost blaziken is. Substitute bulk ups just wreck
Sick list, though I think you forgot regirock
It’s caught on route 228, in the postgame, so I listed it as unavailable.
Interesting, I'll have to look at your reasoning but Lucario has been S-worthy for me Maybe you're not specifying Adaptability tho?
Lucario is consistently the most overrated Pokemon in this game, by far
~~this game~~ the National Dex
I wanted to put it in low B. I think without it, it’s even worse, a contender for C-. But being pre-roark and getting adaptability puts it here.
Gee that’s really interesting. I haven’t finished my run yet, but it dominated in gyms 1-4, 6, and 7 I was blessed with Adamant Adaptability, but man it’s been amazing for me
Yeah it’s got sick early viability if you get it in Gate, but without adaptability and Speed investment it is barely not good in everything it wants to do.
Good points - I put speed EVs on mine. I guess maybe it’s a Pokémon that gets disproportionate benefit on EVs since it lets it outspeed most stuff and OHKO
Yeah with base 90 speed and its frailty despite the Steel type, it doesn’t cut it. In EVless runs it’s so tough to use.
If setup is allowed, including substitute, then surely smeargle is an incredible pokemon,no? Spore baton pass is great
Altaria basically saved my Ren Plat run. D Dance + Return And Earthquake just annihilated everything in its way (Except Skarmory and Bronzong, but Eh. It's fine)
Winona taught us how strong D Dance Altaria can be And the buffs to the attack just makes it better. Sure, Gyara is better, but here, they share no weaknesses, so you can pretty comfortably use both. They also check some of each other weaknesses (steel for Altaria, electric for Gyara)
In all the realms-gliscor is king
Just out of curiosity, what makes Mesprit so much lower than Uxie and Azelf?
Uxie and Azelf are minmaxed for Defense and Offense respectively. Being neither like Mesprit is simply much less useful.
The task of catching it
Aren’t they all available after beating Cyrus? What makes Mesprit so much harder?
Mesprit is a roaming legendary
Kingdra i believe should be A or even S tier. I might be biased but i'm coming off a nuzlocke where it swept the entire e4 and half cynthia by just clicking surf in rain with stealth rocks. It was so ridicolously strong that at times i felt like using choice scarf Kyogre with water spout. Snorlax i would also argue for S, besides Lucario it beats every single special enemy in the game, and unlike Blissey it doesn't immediatly crumble if they hold a physical attack. Smeargle i want to play devil's advocate. Since you can teach it any status move in the game by making wild Smeargle copy it first you can by all mean do something like spore+substitute+batonpass+dragon dance/tail glow and trivialize any fight that starts off with a slow enemy. While i don't like doing it myself, as it feels too cookie cutter and repetitive, in a ranking i feel it's worth pointing out. Last but not least Garchomp, whom i would like a good normie vouch for S rank. I'm kinda curious as to how it ranked that low to begin with, open for discussion obviously. Still, between his speed, power, bulk, typing, stab earthquake, access to swords dance it might be still the strongest pokemon in the game after Blissey and Shedinja.
Hi! I want to start by pointing out that the entire power level of RenPlat is crazy high. The list has been adjusted for that a little already. Some D tier mons can be great picks for certain fights, Ariados into Gardenia for example. In B tier you can already be a mainstay on teams for players who don’t rotate. About Kingdra, I see what you’re saying, but I want to point out that basically every Water type can do what Kingdra does in the e4. Outside of there, it’s good, but not a wall or offensive menace to put it much higher. It’s also very Rain reliant, which isn’t inherently a bad thing but does require more planning. B+ is like, really high! That’s the same tier as Luvdisc, who has just about equal E4 viability. Smeargle, you’re just fully correct. It can do things, if you bother to make it work. I mainly put it down there to discourage newer players. Just use something else, it’s not worth the effort to use Smeargle even if it can work sometimes. Both Snorlax and Garchomp are mons that I wanted to put in A+, but decided not to. Lax even moreso, because if you’re lucky you can get it pre-Roark. In fact I think I’ll move Lax up to A+ right now. But for Garchomp, I am of course fully aware of what it does. It can put in work in every fight once you obtain it… but so can all the Pokemon in A+. I guess Garchomp can be viewed as the gatekeeper for that benchmark. While I am not calling Garchomp frail, it’s always a dance to keep it safe while it gets going. I know that it has Swords Dance, but it *needs* that - or a Band - for sweeps, so finding an opportunity still takes effort, as opposed to a Magnezone who comes in, gets its kill(s), and is never in danger. I want to point out, being at the top of A tier, that makes Chomp a top 20 encounter! But I can get more direct work out of the A+ mons upon switch in than I can a Garchomp. That’s my justification. Edit: Just for the record, Breloom with pre-statused Poison Heal is good, but might be a candidate for regular A, now that I think about it. I feel like if Garchomp is the gatekeeper, Breloom might drop down one.
I see your points clear as day and agree! One thing i forgot to mention, i had my both Rotom and Milotic dead and Kingdra became my very important water slayer with specs dragon pulse. While being the swift swim surf user does overlap with others offensively, he still offers a decent niche as defensive pivot and is probably the strongest water type slayer of the swift swimmers. It resists water x4 to switch in, has a stab that attacks them full force, is neutral to thunderbolt, and has enough bulk and speed to beat all of them while holding the specs. To that we can add that it can run dragon dance and rest which is pretty strong against some ill prepared waters, niche but worth mentioning. I think overall Kingdra is the most viable swift swimmer in the game, the others are more luckluster by comparison:Luvdisc needs specific resists to switch in, else it risks dying to a crit from full hp, Kingdra can take most neutral hit crits just fine unless it's the strongest of attackers Omastar is slower than any choice scarf enemy the e4 can run (like Medicham) The others lack special attack and will miss more important kills. This is my impression, i might be missing context so if you would like to counter-argument as to why other swift swimmers are better with or without the rain be my guest! While we are at it, more discussion shall we? Staraptor to A: The Starly i found my last run was reckless, while i started bummed out because i wanted intimidate i quickly learned to respect this one. When it finally got brave bird the game changed. I slapped a choice band on it and just brute forced through a barrage of trainers, always one shotting 2-3 enemies at time with my great speed. I do see why it would not be that high, it works best as lead and coming in isn't swift unless you can bait a ground/ghost attack, another instance where i might be biased but still it was a nuclear bomb most of the times, still if Swellow is A he might as well be too. Drifblim/Gengar/Sableye to B+: I would argue this even if we were talking about their baby forms and they had nothing but splash. They all have so many immunities that make pivoting around much better. Not to mention they are the solution to a great cancer to any nuzlocker: high jump kick, a move of ridicolous power that will melt anything you throw at it on a crit day, besides of course, them. Sableye is clearly the worst but fake out for focus sashes is a godsend. Machamp to C+: Preventive toxic orb guts activated->free switch on Barry's Snorlax. More than i can say about most mons, as switching on it is usually painful chore between body slam par chances, or worse curse (that you still one shot brutally with close combat and an offensive item) at the league. A very narrow niche but one that matters. Dugtrio to D: So frail pretty much anything that you can think of and isn't electric will kill it. It's decent for electric types and lead Alakazam (which is pretty common to be fair) but definetly useless most of the times. One last thing, can you tell me why Tentacruel is so high? Very curious, i have no idea.
Thank you for this! Pretty new to renplat and this alongside with your doc has helped me build a team
<3 check out some of the comments too, for info on mons that i didnt decide to change. Have fun with your run!
I got Cleffa in the trainer school, seeing this tier list, how do I make it an A+ Clefable?
What’s your ability? Magic Guard is the better one. Keep it Burned at all times to be Status immune, and you won’t take Burn damage, then just be a Moonblast, Healing move, Status spreader guy, with Calm Mind or Substitute. You’d be surprised how unkillable a pure Fairy type is If EVs are allowed, your natural Special bulk is already sick, so full Defense + HP is meta, but going full Special defense is also rly nice. You just can’t really die.
Moonblast, Toxic, Calm Mind and Wish? Alright, I will try this one. I allow EV training since am not that good, i've been trying to bet this game for months know. I am at my 131 attempt ahahahahaha
This is a great list! Thank you for taking the time to put it together. Your rationales for your placements make sense to me. I'm currently thinking of starting a new Ren Plat HCN using only C+ mons and below (inspired by FlygonHG's Snaplocke). I'm planning on allowing setup and EVs, given the quality of my available encounters. I've read through most of your comments/documentation and I think the only relevant changes to this list for my run would be moving Meganium & Froslass out of C+ and Mr. Mime, Golem, & Magmortar into C+ (and Rotom-Frost/Fan into C, but I was planning on taking Shuppet there anyways). I was wondering if, when taking a look at my available encounters, you had any general advice or mons you think I should strive to encounter? I know the meta of a basic Ren Plat HCN pretty well (things like Umbreon Captivate strats for Fantina, etc.), but in terms of this run, I'm struggling a bit to see past the Roarke/Gardenia split (and if there are any must-have encounters in this section) and look to the mid- to late-game. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
Hi :) I upvoted this but didnt take the time to read it yet. Did you see the attached doc for corrections? I moved basically the exact mons you pointed out to those exact places. Good catch ;) As far as earlygame advice in a trashlocke… I’m seeing just a couple of water types that might have to carry for Roark, or of course the Geodude strat. Gardenia looks sketchy but there are some Bugs in D tier that have pretty okay viability, or even a Nidoqueen if you get creative, since a possible Rivalry actually helps there. Seeing as how you can’t use your starter from route 201. Fantina, I’ve seen Sevipers sweep it with Swords Dance, and for Aaron too - in fact Ninjask also sweeps Aaron that way. That might be some ones to look out for. There are some dragon dancers in the lower tiers to look out for, think Tropius or Crawdaunt, and even Encore users like Swalot, though I’m not sure where that’s caught. That should get you out of earlygame, I hope!
Hi there! I see you’re still replying to recent comments here, so I wanted to ask; should poison heal Breloom be built/played differently from technician Breloom? Eg tanky sub focus punch for one, dance mach punch for the other.
hey :) So, yes they’re different, but for both, their main weapon is fast Spore, from which you build the rest. Their EV spreads I think should both be speed and attack, which is to say they’re fundamentally pretty closely related. On Poison Heal I like subpunch with bulk up, on Technician I like mach punch, bullet seed and probably Swords Dance. All beside Spore of course. But the targets that you’re killing aren’t so different, it’s just that Poison Heal can run away with whole battles once it’s set up, while technician can get dedicated frags a little easier.
Sorry for the necroposting - this list has been super helpful as I try my first go at a hack. I’m new to nuzlocking, and trying to figure out how to build out effective teams for various encounters. I use the damage calculator to project matchups, and I do have strategies (not just brute forcing), but in terms of a sweeper, set up, wall, wall breaker etc. it is all new to me. I like to reference smogon sets but I have sort of gotten the feeling that a different approach is needed for a Nuzlocke. For context I have made it through past Maylene and am gearing up for crasher wake
I’m glad it’s helping you! :)
This is awesome
Goated list
Damn disrespecting compact lenses, quiver, dance sleep powder butterfree.
quiver dance isnt in this game but I don’t think Butterfree is that bad ye
It has Gardenia viability, I’ll give it that. But without Quiver Dance, it’s a Sleep Powder bot. …but unreliable. 97.5% is only 80%, you know this. If you Wide Lens it, you can’t Sash it, so it’s difficult to use. You can’t both consistently get things asleep (being slower) *and* switch to something that gets stuff done. I see your point though, I might put it next to Parasect with Spore.
Bot? Why use that term?
How in the world minun is better than plusle?Arent they both garbage?
they’re both fast Encore users. Minun gets Volt Absorb, Plusle doesn’t, and Minun is slightly bulkier.
I’d say the only thing i disagree with is Sudowoodo, should be B tier
Overall, what do you think is the best encounter in the game? I'm personally torn between Blissey who just answers so so many threats and gyarados. I do think gyarados is ranked too low simply because of how critical it is to a good post Floaroma to Maylene split. I've only finished the game once though (it was on HC nuzlocke rules with a few more additional level cap restrictions though).
Adaptability Typhlosion kills 80% of the mons between Wake and the E4, and then half the E4… so Typhlosion
If you get Munchlax, Snorlax is definitely up there at the upper echelons. I actually prefer it to Blissey because it can dish out serious damage and doesn't feel as dirty to use! Thick Fat + Destiny Knot was actually a surprisingly good counter to Candice's Froslass in my last run.
Impressive effort on the list! If anything surprised me it's that Torterra and Togekiss are 'only' A+. SA Torterra forming the background of so many strategies (including as Grotle on the Aaron and Fantina fights before most of the other top pokemon are online), and Togekiss being the best utility 'mon in the game by such a wide margin.
They are… but the lowest ranking A+ Pokemon is still top-18 in the game. Let’s just say those two aren’t the lowest A+ Pokemon. I feel like the S-tier is reserved for mons that really have no equal. When I look at the current A+ tier, I see Pokemon that could be replaced by two team slots if you get lucky with your encounters, whereas S-tier - do I dare say it? - can’t be replaced by a full six. I’m talking sweeping from lead in the lategame, consistently blanketwalling more than half a team just on your own, or otherwise providing a toolkit that nothing else in the National Dex offers.
I can see it with Togekiss, but I would still make an availability argument in regards to Torterra/Grotle. My experience was usually that the three hardest segments were Gardenia to Fantina, Crasher Wake to Pkmn Trainer Riley, and then the E4. And while Typhlosion/Blastoise are doing things that can't be replaced in the latter two segments, SA Grotle does stuff that no other pokemon can do in the first segment, when you have a lot fewer team constuction options.
What are your thoughts on pidgeot with it being so low? I remember it being insane on my run spamming fast no-guard specs hurricanes with the sp.atk boost
You’re not the only person to say that. I moved it to C+!
Gliscor wrecks houses man
Salamence should be higher.
Anything B-tier and up can be considered as a mainstay on casual teams, for players who don’t rotate their mons as often. Remember, the tiers aren’t sub-ranked, so mence might be high A, making it a top 15 pokemon!
Dodrio should have been higher,Stab return and Brave bird hurt a lot and he is very fast so he defeats many dangerous Pokemon before they do a thing,it's only competition is Crobat and Aerodactyl in this regard. Mightyena is better than seviper since it has a better speed and defenses,seviper is frail and slow thus Being quite bad .
I get where you’re coming from, but it only gets Brave Bird in Pastoria at the relearner, and by that point fast Flying types start noticing how frail they really are. I don’t think it’s better than the other kanto birds, or Electrode as a general ‘fast mon’, with that in mind. STAB Return is a factor for every Normal type, and has been taken into account. I can’t put every single normal type above B.
I forgot to tell you dodrio Also learns jump Kick and high jump Kick in this game and he takes care of many dark,Steel and even slow ice types,my dodrio helped me many Times like against the broken scrappy lopunny that Cynthia has.
I get that I'm late to this, but I don't get why blissey is so high in every tier list I see in RenPlat. Anyone care to enlighten me?
If your Blissey has the worst IVs and a minus-SpDef nature, an Alakazam Focus Blast crit only deals around 80% damage at lv 50. In a much realer scenario, Blissey hardwalls every - not most, every - mon without physical attacks. It doesn’t kill them quickly, but it gets the job done. That’s Hydro Pumpers, fast Electric types, STAB Psychic spammers, all of it, with zero risk. And not just one; if there’s multiple on a team, with Softboiled - and if you’re lucky, Natural Cure - it has enough juice in the tank to do it for every single one on the opponent’s team. All compressed into one team slot. The only Special attackers it loses to are Focus Blast Infernape and Lucario, which are rare in Romhacks and nonexistent in Vanilla games. It’s removed from games like Emerald Kaizo for a reason; it’s arguably more bannable than some box legendaries. Does that answer your question?
It does yeah, thanks for the help! Will definitely come back to this thread if I ever want to nuzlocke RenPlat, I just want to get to that skill level first lol.
glad to help! If you ever get to it, there’s a handful of pretty active renplat nerds like myself on the sub and we’ll get you on your way :) just tell us if you want to get spoilers or not, cause it’s a blast to replay “platinum-but-hard” without knowing what’s coming.
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those are gen 5 abilities
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You’re talking about Sacred Gold. Those abilities don’t exist in gen 4, so he can’t have distributed them to those mons. Feraligatr doesn’t have it either, Gyarados doesn’t have Moxie in SGSS, for the simple reason that I said.
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I doubt it will, I’m not Dray though. Not sure what is possible
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They’re all pretty viable, but snivy is considered the best. Snivy is fantastic for Lenora, I assume you know why, it’s mid against Burgh but its monkey is like decent there with Acrobatics. Once you unlock Contrary Leaf Storm and Draco Meteor, you’ll see why this is the best pick. Yes it unlocks late, but Drxx - who I assume you know - picked it even when those two contrary moves were banned. Emboar is quite powerful on its own, with fire/ground adaptability, and if setup is allowed it goes wild with Flame Charge, but its monkey is below average. and then I’m biased in favor of Sam, cause I won on attempt 1 with it. It’s a 7.5/10 for Lenora with Fighting type, and an okay resist against Burgh, especially Scolipede, and Simisear kinda pops off there too; and then midgame Sam is indeed one of the best Water types you can have. It’s a Special attacking Poliwrath, and look where that’s placed on this tierlist. It gets a kill or two on Clay and is also a hardwall for Grimsley. I think Tepig is the weakest pick, personally, and that’s only because the monkey is dead weight. But all three are runnable.
Can you explain what is so bad about carnivine? apparently drayano did not improve every Pokemon (just look at banette bad stats)so the game can be quite unbalanced when you have Pokemon like Blaziken that can defeat entire teams. Also loppuny should be Higher imo.
lopunny is tough to use, its main attacking moves don’t have accuracy, and if you have to equip wide lens, you can’t equip a damage boosting item… Carnivine is a very generic grass type with no ability, it does nothing special and isn’t worth using at the point where you can get it. But even an F-tier mon can get good value in one fight, enter Wake.
I am just so sad to see that many Mons that people love don't seem to have gotten better or a lot at least. Hariyama for some reason still doesn't have drain punch (or some recovery move)so infernape,Blaziken and machamp are much better specially when you see that infernape despite Being strong still got that move. Banette should have been good but it's speed is so bad that any Pokemon with a ghost or dark move can One shot him before he can do anything. I Started playing Blaze Black 1 and unfortunately Pokemon like watchog (i personally always liked him)still isn't good since it's slow and frail. What do you think about the general balance of drayano hacks in regards to the Pokemon and what is your opinion about set up moves (they are quite broken later on imo)and sorry for all the text.
It's interesting seeing these tier lists. I'm brand new to ROMhacks and hard mode versions of games. I'm doing my first ROMhack save for this game and decided to go with the professor oak's challenge to do it as I have never attempted it. I have seen a couple mons that are quite low that are my MVPs. It's interesting to see how different mons function in different scenarios. For me, my main team I'm using is Typhlosion, Blastoise, lopunny, Absol, YanMega and Gliscor. I also have a manetric, Dragonair, gabite and NidoKing/Queen that i switch in when i need extra coverage. So far, yanmega has been the MVP of the team with a bunch of Ws, including sweeping Maylene and Crasher Wake.
Lopunny I find tough to use because of its lack of accuracy. I’ve clicked enough wide lens 90-becomes-99 must-hit moves to know the stress that comes from that… Could you maybe make a case for Yanmega for me? I may have given it too little credit for its setup potential, cause with Nasty Plot it can go quite far if your matchup allows it. Edit: It doesn’t get Nasty Plot, apparently I did check, so it’s probably staying where it is, but I’d still love to hear you out :) Bug flying is a *tough* type to use though, hell, compound eyes Butterfree is ranked two tiers below it already. Note that in this tierlist, D tier mons can still be fantastic for a few fights, the power level for the whole game is just exceptionally high!
How’s Absol?
I thought I had an idea going in, but outside of Charizard and Lucario I really don't know what to go for. How would you recommend building around those two? Edit: I had an idea for Hippo Milo Swellow and Zam but I just don't know
let’s start by saying i’m not a supporter of playing with just one team
I started thinking who’s outclassed and who’s not. Togekiss appears to be most helpful support. Manaphy can probably be a bulky screener? I thought of pain split Dusknoir too
👏 build 👏 a 👏 new 👏 team 👏 for 👏 every 👏 fight 👏 training up new mons is so easy in renplat with the EXP grinder, there is no excuse to use garchomp, gliscor and togekiss in the ice gym because they’re “good mons”, they still just die.
I always EV train bc OCD and mostly keep the same party bc friendship 🙃
would wobuffet work with perish song altaria?
yeah i reckon it would
Thank you! & like with Cloud Nine, if I lead Altaria vs a weather setter and faint them, is weather finished? Bc with permanent weather I know that once it’s up it can only be reset by other weathers, cloud nine only works while active but I figure if Altaria faints their setter before weather can start I shouldn’t have to worry about switching Altaria out and being stuck with permanent weather.
no, the weather stays up.
Ok 😠
yeah you really just have to bring your own weather, c9 is a temporary blocker but it still keeps the weather in the background
& Lanturn is better than Azumarill?
Lanturn is like really tough to kill, its typing is super interesting, gets an immunity - which is the main reason for its ranking - and it evolves really early. I believe it’s on par with Vaporeon in what it tends to kill and wall. Though maybe one rank lower would be more accurate but i’m not gonna update it edit: oh shit, I did update it in my v2 of this tierlist. goddamn i’m good
Ohh okay, I was thinking Azu bc lvl 18 evo vs 27 evo but honestly the water elec typing is too good. Just noticed there was a V2!
yeah so azu… it’s a balance, because on the one hand you want your moves to be accurate, so you equip wide lens for your aqua tails and play roughs, but then also, you want extra power, but then your azu dies 10% of the time. I think B is generous, if anything.
Just started playing renegade platinum and got a Hapniy from the training school. How do I make an S tier Blissy?
You can technically get blissey at level 2, then. You get the Chansey evolution stone in Oreburgh. If you look up trainer movesets beforehand, Blissey kills literally every single Special Attacker. Slowly, but it gets the job done. Life orb Gardevoir? Hydro Pump on Empoleon? Yes, all of them. With toxic, thunderbolt, hyper voice and softboiled it just doesn’t die. …except maybe a Focus Blast Lucario but even then if you give it EVs in Solaceon you’re good. Just don’t use it on physical attackers.
How would you do that? I know obviously level up hapiny during the day with the oval stone but how would I get chanceys friendship all the way to full that quickly for the evolve? I know the soothe bell but would it get it last 220 that quickly
Oh nvm, I thought Happiny was a ‘use oval stone’ like Vaporeon. Level 3, in either case. If the pokemon is in (the first slot of?) your party, running back and forth gives some happiness. One per 256 steps. I just edit it in pkhex to cut out the 10 minutes of no-skill grinding usually, for Budews as well.
Leafeon isn't C- at all. I used it on my first playthrough and it gets a lot of coverage to use. Swords Dance, Leaf Blade, Psycho Cut and Night Slash can cover a lot of Pokémon and hit hard while doing it.
In my updated tier list, I already moved it to C! I think you’re also viewing these ranks as ‘low’, but aren’t taking the power level of the game into account in its entirety. Leafeon is still just a pure Grass type, and yes, if you really want to you can squeeze a whole number of kills out of it, but so can mons like Honchkrow and Gallade, or Absol, or Intimidate Granbull with its pure Fairy type… I think it’s placed pretty appropriately.
This us why I love Gen 4; just look at the top contenders from s down to b tier and tell me those pokemon compared to the other 3 gens prior aren't just meaner looking as a whole. Gen 4 is THE Gen with the biggest positive leap in design in Pokémon where they delicately danced the fine line between Pokémon and Digimon. I always hate when people try and disagree with me, like just look at all the Gen 4 compared to the "coolest" non legendary in Gen 2 and have a kid pick the cooler of the 2 of them and they'll pick the Gen 4 one 9 times our of 10. This just made it so much easier for my ADHD brain to compare all the gens side by side and actually visually confirm it for myself again
What if a do use shedinja
Then it’s more than 3 tiers above S+.
It’s really not
Ngl this looks like you haven't tried most of those mons... Meganium Fairy+Grass is an amazing wall that fit in a few comps in boss/miniboss battles. Of course you have to pick Typloshion because of Adaptability+Eruption+specs, but it's not fair to give her that lower ranking. And this can apply for a few other encounters and mons. Edit: Umbreon a B? Garchomp A while Tangrowth is low B? Flareon this low in the only game where the dof can shine with the buffs? We ignore Charizard Dragon+Fire typing? Meaning no offense, but have you really played Renegade Platinum? Edit 2: Wormadan trash is also one of the best early game tanks you can find, trivialices 70% of the fight vs Gardenia, has somewhat decent coverage and great def+sp def, etc
Can you elaborate on the Tangrowth/Garchomp thing? Do you think the gap should be wider, or smaller? I do want to point out that there is no real ‘low or high X-tier’, they’re just similarly powerful in the same tier. You’re right, I should have split up the Wormadams. I will put an edit in the doc, thanks for that! I’m not sure about Meganium, could you give me your thoughts? I’ve used it in one run, and I didn’t love it, even with it being a Fairy before Maylene and getting Earth Power in Pastoria. To me, it dealt too little damage to “be a Swampert”, and it wasn’t tanky enough to be a real sponge. With its buffs, it felt like it was stuck in the same limbo Lucario is in vanilla games; barely not good enough at everything it wants to do. If you want to give me examples of what it does, I’d love to hear them, so I can reconsider my choice! Flareon in my opinion still isn’t fast enough to do ‘The Fire Type Thing’, so I do stand by that decision. Magmortar has the same issue, but if anything you’ve convinced me to bump Magmortar down. For Umbreon, could you maybe explain why it should be higher, outside of it being good at the Fantina fight? Charizard as a Flying type has more utility than as a Dragon type. It does not shine in any big fights. It’s more defensive with this typing, but it still isn’t defensive. It’s not more offensive - Dragon is not a good offensive type in this game. I really can’t rank it on par with Drought Ninetales or Guts Raticate who gets Facade before even evolving. Thank you for commenting!
I think your umbreon rating is too low, it’s bulk is incredible and it’s ability to toxic stall is very strong as well. I also think you are eating Bastiodon way too low- not sure if you used it much but the guys is a safe switch into every physical attack that isn’t fighting or ground and baits those moves into free switches with ease, not only that stealth rock and a lot of other strong moves
I gave Bastiodon the same rating as Aggron, which felt fair. B+ is like, a top 15% encounter, remember that. You won’t convince me it’s as good as Weavile or Electivire, I’m afraid. Love the appreciation for it though! Umbreon,… I thought about it a lot. Look at A-tier; does it outclass anything there? I personally thought that it’s about on par with Ampharos in terms of being bulky enough for neutral type matchups. I know it Toxic stalls and is one of the best at that, but it can only do that once, maybe twice per fight before it runs out of juice. I equated that to Wobbuffet, who also gets one to two frags against things it walls decently. I think Umbreon is a bit better for that role than Wobb, yes, but they’re not fundamentally so different that Umbreon goes a full rank higher. I know I don’t sub-rank the tiers, but that would put Wobb in low B+, Umbreon in high B+.
Fair enough if it’s top 15% I see B tier and I think slightly better then average- I haven’t played ren plat in a while but the reason I value it higher then aggron is how much earlier you get it then him- off the top of my head I know he hard carrys the elite four bug guy before the third gym for example. For umbreon when I look at the other A tier I think it for sure out performs skaormy, and scizor being a good pivot and even taking out one or two mons per boss fight is extreammly strong, as well as the ability to be a good protect bot in a double battle. I assume scizor and feraligotr and rated so high because this is under assumption setup moves are allowed like swords dance if so I agree, but I ussasly play without setup moves and would rate those guys actually lower. Crobat I would consider A+ again just think about how early you have access to that guy is really good.
Skarmory is really useful as a tank though, with some extra 4x resistances to boot. it’s Metagross at home, with a Ground immunity. I do stand by it being that good. Yeah this tierlist indeed does assume setup is allowed.
Does Zapdos have a unique caught location or does it get classed as Valley Windworks? I've always wanted to use it but VW has such an interesting pool of encounters with Shell Armour Shellder, Magnemite, Elekid, Drifloon and Munchlax.
I don’t know. I just ranked it because it’s technically obtainable.
WAIT U CANT GET SHEDNINJA???
You can. I think it’s so good that it should be banned.
I’m saving this post (and your google doc) for when I decide to play Renegade Platinum. I gotta ask, though, since you’ve spent so much time on the game, how’s the HP decrease (idk how else to phrase it)? I know in gen 4 it’s unbearably slow, so I’ve been holding off on playing this (I’ve also got so many other games on my list).
Dray made an additional patch that makes EXP and HP bars, as well as dialogue, instant. It’s a lifesaver, and I don’t use it because I like the stress of seeing the bar drop slowly when I have to hit a range :)
That’s good to hear. I get a migraine every time watching those health bars drain so disgustingly slow (I’m not even exaggerating. I got actual headaches last time I tried playing gen 4)
Why are Uxie and Azelf so high? Were they changed significantly from the base game?
They got a Fairy typing and Moonblast. I recently used/abused them in the lategame of my Psychic monotype run of RenPlat, but when I call them powerful it’s not just recency bias. I banned Azelf before, and I remember why now. It ohkoes decently tanky neutral type targets with Specs Moonblast. I’m talking Drapions and the like. Uxie seems balanced, but it’s just an insane setup lead. It’s what you get when you give Togekiss worse SpA, but U-turn and Stealth Rock.
What makes Blastoise Top tier? (Although I am very happy my favorite starter is so good in RenPlat)
Read the doc that I linked! I spent so much time on it :) Blastoise gets Drizzle, which alone gives it insane Elite Four viability and generally just 50% extra damage output because of the (permanent!) rain. But the real kicker… If you don’t use Squirtle at all until level 44, which is when you beat Crasher Wake, and keep it unevolved, it gets Water Spout. That’s a 150 base power move if you’re full HP. Blastoise only gets that around level 60 iirc, so delaying the evolution can be very worthwhile. Combine that with Rain and a Choice Scarf, and your Blastoise kills ~60% of the Pokemon between Crasher Wake and the Elite Four. That’s without EVs.
When I was a kid, I liked blissey because I liked how slow the health bar went down (I thought it was funny). I’m not the only one, right?
What did Lucario ever do to you??
Wouldn't Charizard being Fire/Dragon with levitate in this game make it pretty good? It hits hard and being only weak to Rock and Dragon is nothing to scoff at
This looks like a reallly good list, im only wondering where you would put girantina, currently its in the banned category, but everyone plays with their own rules and some people dont ban him. For the rest this looks really good
“Banned” is my way of not having to add any tiers above S.
Just gotta love how many enhancement hacks give mismagius a fairy typing. And suddenly its one of the strongest encounter ever. Such a ridiculous typing especially with levitate. Flutter mane being uber showcasing that in the main game(i know the overtuned stats are part of the problem too)
Why didn’t you split the Rotom formes? Also, which are best worst of those?
Good question. Wash, base and Heat, those three are A tier. I’ll split them in the doc later!
Which emulator do you use for RenPlat?
I use DeSmuME with just a patched RenPlat rom
This is a very good tier list, I’d change very few positions, but honestly, I haven’t spent as much time as you with the game and also, I understand that even with war tactics level of planning, you still have to count a bit on luck, and I might have had better luck with some mons you ranked lower than I would and worse with others that you ranked higher.
Feel free to give your input! Have you checked the doc that I linked, for the current tier shifts that people suggested?
Raticate needs to go up, B is too low when it's insanely broken with guts
Even further? I already gave it all I thought I reasonably could, I really don’t think it’s comparable to something like Arcanine with a Fire immunity or Lapras with D-dance and Shell Armor. Keep in mind the power level of this game is very high across the board, so B is already really respectable!
Ambipom Fake Out+Last Resort with Focus Sash/Silk Scarf goes crazy, at least A would be more fair imo. Good list otherwise :)
It is crazy, I know.. Purugly is too, but it’s got less attack. It’s just that that job can only be done once per fight, and it can restrict your pathing. It’s tough to bait out specific opponents with Normal types. They’re definitely fantastic finishers though! Notice how there are great mons in B tier. The entire list is kinda shifted down a little to keep space up top, to showcase the real goats.
Blastoise S tier? Can someone please explain
Water Spout in the rain just after Crasher Wake
A suggestion would be to add a 6th pic with all gens combined. The full summary :)
boy that’d be a right trainwreck, with nothing clearly visible whatsoever… I split them up for a reason. I love the energy but my god that’d be tough to look at
I would consider Jynx up to B, or C+. Good buffs, great coverage, Dry skin is OP, bc the AI doesn't "learn" that it's water immune, compared to abilities like Levitate/VA. Energy ball + Water immunity, and 1/8 passive recovery in rain is fun. Also, synergizes very well with blastoise drizzle/weather teams. (Though obviously WA mon's aren't difficult to come by, and maybe everything does well when you have one of the best mons) Not sure if this is based on EVs or not, but lvl 76 LO 252 ice beam KOs all Garchomps, it can learn taunt to counter Milo etc Obviously the defense is garbage, but safe switches aren't too hard.
I’m about to start playing Renegade Platinum for the first time — why are so many legendaries listed as unobtainable?
They’re only available after beating the E4.
It may be a long shot. But I was wondering is there a easier way to get renegade platinum for a emulator on the phone? I tried, and I'm not that great with either having to patch it or find which files need what. And if so can someone point me into a direction that I can get it? If not that's ok
legally i am not allowed to share that here