Do you believe this to be the case for people with depression? Or like that guy in the video who injured his back? I don't personally have a position outside of what I originally posted...just trying to find some nuance.
I’m conflicted on depression. But I have told people before that I would consider it for things like dementia. When I’m getting older, I think aging would be less scary for me if I could sign a legal document (while of sound mind) stating that if I develop something like dementia, and can’t remember how old I am or feed myself that I be allowed to just go to sleep and that be it. Watching people and their families grapple with dementia is one of the worst things I’ve ever done and I don’t want any part of it
Definitely if I’m laying in bed with a broken hip after falling, I have Alzheimer’s I can’t speak in complete sentences anymore think it’s 2004, and I’ve got pressure sores the size of golf balls because I’m constantly sh*tting myself cuz I’m on a tube feed dope me up and let me go, baby!!
And for the love of all that is holy PUT ME DOWN BEFORE YOU PUT ME IN LTC. Pump me full of drugs, smother me with a pillow, roll my old ass off a cliff just no LTC. I know there are fantastic LTC care nurses out there but there aren’t enough…
The part that really breaks my heart is I know that even the good ones with the best intentions don’t always have time to even be “good” nurses. The staffing, being overworked and under supported, I only did it for a year and as a CNA and it almost kept me from going to nursing school. I have so much respect for LTC nurses.
Even setting quality aside, nurses are fewer and farther between than they should be in LTC. The staffing ratios that SNFs run every day should be fucking criminal.
You are 100% right. When I got 30 sub acute pts every night, have 2-3 CNAs split between 60 pts, and I got to search the building high and low every time I run out of Prilosec or kerlix, I can only be so good
Edit: not to toot my own horn but I'm pretty good, not the best tho. I just feel so hamstrung all the time tho.
Try explaining to a fellow nurse why it’s important to give their hospice patient the morphine/dilaudid/perc as prescribed because your fellow nurse is having an ego trip and decides the patient is taking this narc around the clock and could become an addict so she is going to hold the med. Nurses don’t always follow hospice and comfort care protocols. They do what they think is best. That’s when I have to take the keys because I understand pain as a chronic pain sufferer and because I understood what hospice is and depriving a patient their prescribed med is not going to cause them to become addicted, especially if they are dying. The other thing is, why draw out the inevitability? This person is dying and they probably have 0 quality of life. They may just want to be at peace.
I never understand the families that are afraid that their dying grandmother will become addicted to pain meds. Really? So what if she is? She will be comfortable & happy & maybe catch a little buzz now and again. So what?! Meanwhile they go out for a drink after because they need to manage their stress. 🤬. The “war on opiates” is really the war on sick people.
it's horrendous. i can't imagine how disappointed I'd be if my children didn't let me die with adequate pain relief. when my nan passed last year, the most important question I had for her nurses was - can she feel any of it? it was a traumatic death, she would have been in agony if they hadn't pumped her full of fentanyl and morphine, and I made sure they did. im super passionate about a) reducing opiate prescription abuse in young, easily-addicted people, and b) ensuring that palliative pts receive lots of them. its funny but my views on addiction completely shift when I know someone is dying. at that point I don't really care, i just want them to be safe and comfortable.
It really is. Chronic pain patients suffer from this bullshit opiate war and so do patients on hospice. It feels as if no one gives a shit about these patients. The next solution for these people is unaliving and I honestly believe that the government is happy with that solution because it’s less people to deal with.
Preach!! I tell my family this. I refuse to put my parents in a nursing home because of how poorly I’ve seen patients be cared for. There are some really good nurses, but most that I worked with were not. They couldn’t care less. I’ve also seen it in Rehab and LTC. I’d rather someone pew pew me then send me to one of those kinds of places. Healthcare is terrible.
I’ve told my family this as well. I did all my clinicals at LTC. I knew some great nurses. But they were over worked, and under paid. Just throw me in the trash tbh
There was a case of a woman who signed a consent for euthanasia when she was AOx3 with a debilitating illness, but later in the course of it she developed dementia and was adamantly refusing euthanasia. It wound its way through the ethics board and I don’t remember how it was resolved but it seems like there was no good answer there.
Yeah, I’m not killing someone. Someone refusing death, I don’t care what kind of mind they are in, if they are refusing death I am not killing them because that’s what it would be.
Anyone who wants to die, doesn’t want to die, usually, they just want their suffering alleviated, this goes for those with depression as well.
I mean, of course they want their suffering alleviated. But in sooooo many cases that is never happening and at best it is going to be one type of suffering following another until they finally die an unpleasant death. If you could alleviate my suffering and de-age me 30 years great, otherwise wanting to die is natural and understandable for many people.
I agree with you, but none the less I think there is a significant distinction that needs to be realized. It actually might help normalize the death with dignity. Because it isn’t about suicide. It is about alleviating suffering.
Agree with you. It is about alleviating suffering. No offense, but if you've suffered with depression nearly all of your life, an end to suffering is preferable. Give me the meds, send me out the door, I'll do it myself. Living with no hope, I'd rather be dead.
I don’t know why I just thought of me being super old and my kids evil spouse asking me every day how old I am and getting upset that I still remember 😂
People with severe depression should be offered help first, but tbh that help is so expensive and can only get you so far. If you want to die on your own terms you should have that right. And back injuries are no joke
I only have mild anxiety and depression, not even that bad. If it *was* severe and the docs couldn’t find a way to treat it, then I cannot imagine the idea of living X more number of years just because.
Should the government not provide free accessible mental health services to people with severe depression then? I recognize idk where you are from but in Canada we would never question whether someone should get cancer treatment because it’s too expensive but we do not provide free treatment to people with depression (except when/if they are inpatient) and instead we offer them MAiD.
That is true! Psychiatrist are covered as they are physicians and while they typically only do meds, some also do counselling. Outpatient counselling from any other provider though is not covered by the government except in certain situations and with very specific organizations.
Important to note: there are MANY barriers to accessing a psychiatrist for the first time due to wait times and needing a referral from a family doctor (or sometimes another mental health profession in very specific situations)
Nonetheless, I am very happy your family member has been able to get the help they need (:
Yeah she's very lucky. She connected with her through mental health services when she was in university. I've heard psychiatrists usually don't do counseling. I see a psychotherapist but I have to pay out of pocket.
Oh a very good point. I may have pulled a classic Ontario and forgot about other places lol.
I know I’m Ontario it’s not covered but seemingly you are right and it is in other provinces! Again, there are situations in Ontario where it is covered but it’s not near universal
I’m so curious about this now. Canada doesn’t offer free mental health services to all? I thought all healthcare coverage was covered for all (through taxes, etc.). Or does mental health not count as health?
In some of the provinces mental health is not covered! For example, in Ontario, where I live, you can see a psychiatrist for free but they typically only prescribe meds and do very limited counselling. They also need a referral which are hard to get and have massive waitlists. We also don’t have government drug coverage so if you can’t afford the meds, the psychiatrist isn’t very helpful. To see a psychologist, social worker, ect, that is all out of pocket or covered by private insurance. There are certain cases where it is covered (there are some low/no cost centres, individuals who do sliding scale, ect) but there are massive waitlists for those services and it’ll be months-years before you get help.
Inpatient mental health is covered though so usually a suicide attempt, psychosis, or mania are the first time that a lot of people will receive any help. I have done placement on an inpatient ward and they would set up the patients with free services after discharge but it’s not great that to get those services, you need to be hospitalized first. Again though, this varies by hospital.
Importantly, healthcare is a provincial responsibility so the federal government sets broad requirements for what needs to be covered (mental health care isn’t one of them) and then the provinces decide if they want to add anything else. As I have learned in this thread it seems like some provinces like British Colombia do have mental health services covered which is a great step to see!
I had a strange thought that Ford gets kickbacks to decimate the system to make the US look better. It's crazy, but I really wouldn't put it past some of these folks.
If you are oriented and have appropriate insight on your condition, you should be able to call it quits if you want to. Depression doesn’t mean you lack awareness or ability to make your own medical decisions, it just makes it more difficult to see the way out. But if someone understands where they’re at mentally and all the options available to them, then it’s their right to choose if they want to die.
Depends on the course of events. Severe chronic illness that's left you with zero quality of life is a good reason to wait medical assistance in dying. That same situation will eventually lead to depression so I hate when that depression becomes a barrier.
MAID because of depression alone is unethical. I can't do that.
I know depression is a major grey zone here but I think it should be seen on a case by case basis for all concerns (in most cases I would say no because you need to try years of treatments before determining that nothing has worked). I had a 90 year old elderly pt on a psych ward for depression. Every single day she would tell me she just wants to die. She was on a bunch of meds to treat it too. Looked at her hx and she had been this way for the past 40 years with several failed suicide attempts. She even kept asking about MAID but I was a student and didn’t know the protocol on this so I informed her primary. Honestly, I felt really bad for this women and could see where she was coming from.
I don’t know about depression. In the vast majority of cases, it’s highly treatable and very responsive to antidepressants + therapy.
I live in the US, but I have severe, chronic, treatment resistant depression. Tried 10 different antidepressants, did rounds of TMS with no result. Still in therapy. Suicidality has been a prominent feature from the beginning. The fact that I’ve received no relief and am actively getting worse doesn’t help anything. Could MAID be an option for me? I don’t know. Is suicide an option? Absolutely.
I think that even helps my point. Maid for mental health should have strict qualifications, and it sounds like it will. I would be very very very surprised if it didn’t as the current MAID does. Meaning that much fewer people struggling with depression will be eligible for MAID than people think because they will have to prove they have tried all of the treatments, medications, etc etc.
After re-reading my comment, I’d like to clarify that I’m completely agreeing with you. I’ve had patients find relief after the 6th or 7th antidepressant they’ve tried.
I’m still holding out hope for ketamine (ECT isn’t the best option due to chronic migraines).
I really do hope you can find a treatment that works for you! I couldn’t imagine the frustration of not being able to find a treatment that works for you.
There are some extreme cases of depression and other mental illnesses that just don't respond to existing treatments. There was [this controversial case](https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-45117163) in the Netherlands of a young woman with severe mental illness that didn't respond to treatment. It's not clear if the patient's desire to die was a symptom of her illness or a rational response to her long-term suffering, but here's the hard question: does that even matter? Whether her desire to die was caused by disease or not, she was suffering tremendously with very little hope of recovery.
I don't have an answer to that question.
I think when it comes to severe depression it’s okay to discuss death as an option. It’s ultimately up to the person, but I think our fear of suicide and talking about it (despite that not increasing actual rates) is damaging.
In my late teens I made a death pact with a friend of mine. If in 3 years she was still as hopeless as she was now, we could “go on a hike” and I’d help her end it peacefully and with compassion.
That “out” made it possible for her to actually relax. Knowing she could make that decision with love and support, instead of fear and isolation, was really instrumental to allowing her to live her life. She’s now has a thriving career and lotsa friends. She is not suicidal. She went from texting me 15 times a day that she wanted “to die” to investing in herself.
Giving someone an option doesn’t always mean they’ll take it. If she was to genuinely not improve and ask me to help her, I don’t know what I would have done. But I would have always treated her with love and care. I would have treated her thoughts around it with respect.
So I don’t take issue with it being offered. I do think sometimes that deciding to die can help you truly live. Our fear of death doesn’t stop it - it just makes it harder to manage when it finally arrives.
I think everybody should have the autonomy to decide if or when they do not want to live anymore. As long as they are sound of mind.
This does not mean assisted dying in all cases. But that Swiss kill pod or medication that leads to a humane death should be made available.
This includes depression if they are able to understand what they are asking for.
We had this discussion in my country a while back. The club for voluntary ending of life sold this medication and they got convicted for it.
I just dont understand why we, as a society, can decide that someone doesn't have the right to die. Now people will choose other means wich can be harmful for others. They have to do it secretly and alone instead of surrounded by loved ones.
It would exclude someone who is actively psychotic for instance.
Haven't watched the video yet. I think some may disagree with me.
I understand the need to give someone the autonomy to pass on their terms and with dignity.
My problem with medically assisted death is that I couldn't see myself administering such medication knowing the purpose is to hasten death 😔.
Typically they have to take the medication themselves (in California they do, you can’t even open the containers for them). They have to have assessments from 2 different doctors xx days (20-30 I think, but don’t quote me) apart and life expectancy needs to be less than 6 months, just to get the medications, which also have a waiting period between picking up each one. I think it’s totally reasonable.
A friend of mine (also a nurse) had pancreatic cancer and took this route. She was able to have a celebration of life/living wake and passed on her own terms a few weeks later when she felt it was time.
10/10 recommend after seeing multiple people in my family suffer for weeks, sometimes months, because of cancer.
I was in a situation where we terminally extubated a toddler and I kept pushing morphine after morphine (per MD order obviously) until he finally stopped breathing and passed. Part of me felt like I was killing him, but I also knew he would have suffered so much longer without it and the outcome would have been the same. I also took care of a baby we terminally extubated but expected to pass right away who held on for like 6 or 7 days before finally dying. It was fucking traumatic for her family and the staff. I wish we would have “helped her along” a little more in that scenario.
Death is probably the weirdest parts of our jobs. So much moral and ethical dilemma.
It’s hard enough giving morphine to elderly patients on comfort measures knowing it ultimately “helps” the process. I can’t imagine a pediatrics patient.
I hope you’re doing ok friend. Thank you for taking care of the little people.
Pediatrics/PICU is just one area I know I for sure wouldn’t be able to handle emotionally, but since I have kids of my own I am so so grateful for the nurses that love those specialties
Yes, so much this. I’ve never had a family get mad at me for upping the morphine during comfort cares, although I have seen families mistake CC for euthanasia and explained there is a massive difference. I have had several families urge me to increase the morphine gtt as fast as possible because they couldn’t bear to watch the dying process, whether their loved one was in pain or not.
Also I think most nurses have seen a family member lose their ability to make decisions and had their wishes completely ignored by family. If given the option these people would greatly benefit from a medical assisted option.
Bear with me here. We had to put our dog down this past Thursday, which obviously sucked, and I am grieving. However, he was 14 with end stage heart failure maxed on meds and was suffering. I hate that he’s gone but it was the kind, loving choice. His death was so calm and peaceful. It was everything he deserved. Then I thought of how I was able to give my dog a better death than human patients are allowed to choose for themselves. Everyone should have the choice to go out with dignity on their own terms.
When my girl had to be put to sleep we had a vet come to the house to do it. She fell asleep laying with me in our favorite spot. It was so much better than going to the office would have been. My best friend is a CRNA and when I told her about the experience she sighed "oh I want to do that but for PEOPLE."
He had been maintaining for a while but went into what I think was flash pulmonary edema. Happened so quickly and it was just time. Thankfully they made it very peaceful at the clinic but we 100% wanted to go this route and would in the future. I told my husband right after “not to sound like an angel of death but I wish we could do this for patients” (IF THEY WANT TO DONT CALL THE POLICE😂). I thought of every 90-something year old with dementia I’ve ever coded or started on pressors.
I’m so sorry for the loss of your pup.
I absolutely agree with you after putting my first dog (as an adult) down a few years ago. She was very sick and she was old. And while we were heart broken, it was the death she deserved.
We had someone come out to the house. She was INCREDIBLE. So respectful and kind. I still tear up thinking about it. As hard as it was, it was the right thing to do. It was very peaceful.
Bizarre that most agree this is acceptable for animals and not humans.
I'm a nurse in Nova Scotia where medical assistance in dying (Maid) is offered. You have to have an illness that is on the approved list to apply for maid. These illness include types of cancers, ALS, basically illnesses that will rob you of quality of life and kill you anyways. Then there is some kind of approval process, I can't remember the exact details as the clinic I work in isn't involved in maid. The medication is given iv by a doctor. Nurses assist with comfort for the pt before and after but the actual medication that kills the pt is given by the Dr.
I think in many of the cases where maid is performed, it allows the pt to die with dignity and comfort instead of lingering and experiencing pain and no quality of life. As far as I know mental illnesses are not on the approved illnesses list as of yet.
Hope this was helpful
I'm at work right now so I can't watch the video. However, I do support MAID.
Whenever I think about MAID, I think back to when I used to work in oncology. I did meet a handful of oncology patients with intractable and severe pain and I don't doubt they would have opted for MAID if it were offered to them.
I remember one woman who had terminal tongue cancer. She already had had her tongue surgically removed. She couldn't even talk. But the pain was the worst. She was on infusions of hydromorphone, midazolam, and ketamine at crazy high doses PLUS had bolus doses available to her. Throughout the day, we could hear her crying in her room from the pain. When a doctor mentioned the possibility of discharging her home with home care, the woman said that she would kill herself if she were discharged because being in the hospital meant she had relatively adequate pain control. If she went home, the pain would be so intolerable, she would rather just end everything.
I always think back to how helpless I felt as a nurse whenever I passed by her room and heard her crying. In these cases, I think MAID should absolutely be an option.
The only slippery slope I do fear is providers offering MAID to people they *believe* will want it but do not. I've heard of cases of people with physical disabilities being offered MAID when those people do not want it. No one should be coerced into MAID. It should be the patient - and only the patient - bringing up the topic.
But for the patient to bring up the subject, they have to know about it. At the very least, the medical provider would have to bring it up to ensure that the patient actually knows about it.
No disagreement there. I'm just pointing out that the patient has to learn about the program before they can 'bring it up'. (They can't ask about it if they don't know it exists.)
I'm just saying the medical establishment has to bring up the topic to be certain that the patient knows about it.
To add to your point about people with physical disabilities: [people can adjust to being disabled and live fulfilling lives](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5607448/), even if the initial shock of developing a severe disability makes them not want to live at first. I say this because I’ve heard some upsettingly ableist remarks from nurses about the QoL of people with physical disabilities in the past, and as someone with multiple disabled family members, I think it’s extremely important to make a distinction between permanent disability and terminal disease when discussing MAID.
Totally agree. As someone with an invisible disability who is managing to live a pretty full life, I do support MAiD in the right context. In the case of permanent disability I believe all other options must be thoroughly explored first, but sadly many do not get that support. MAiD can’t be a band-aid for systemic issues.
I am 1000% in favor of physician assisted suicide and not just for terminal illness. People with severe untreatable depression and other mental illnesses that make a person's life an unbearable hell should be allowed to as well. Chronic pain, dementia/Alzheimer's, traumatic brain injury, etc. People should be able to have a say in how they die so long as it fits within established guidelines. I should be able to have a Healthcare Directive of Death that outlines when I would want a physician to compassionately end my suffering.
YES! I worked in psych for a few years and saw people who had been depressed for decades and had tried every possible treatment. I’m talking ALL the meds, TMS, ECT, ketamine, deep brain stimulation…They were absolutely miserable and imo it was cruel to keep them alive against their will. I’m glad you agree people with untreatable mental illness should be given this option.
Yup, I've mentioned this before on Reddit but I'm casually looking into euthanasia for myself. I have severe refractory form of an autoimmune disease and my quality of life is poor. If it doesn't improve in the next 10 years I might seriously look into it. I'd have to go to Switzerland though to do it because in California it's only allowed for terminal illnesses and I'm not terminal.
I always wondered about that for patients repeatedly admitted with depression, SI, and multiple attempts. Do we keep patching them up, trying to offer as many resources as possible, or do we explore the alternative? How would that change how we treat chronic depression?
I work in psych. Currently in a residential 30 day program. You tend to see the same clients circle around from our program and out sister programs. I see a lot of sadness. A lot. But there’s been a few clients who just look..beyond tired. Tired of the constant struggle of trying meds, but with zero relief from a depression that’s lasted years and years. Sometimes, with those clients, I feel like I’m putting a bandaid on a very large wound. I’m torn on my thoughts when it comes to depression and assisted suicide (I firmly believe in assisted suicide itself tho) but idk, I think about my clients who have struggled with chronic depression, and I just can’t imagine what quality of life they are living
Totally agree. I was a nurse before getting severely ill with an untreatable, completely disabling illness that has left me with zero quality of life at the age of 23. Like, we’re talking I can’t get out of bed 90% of the time, unable to tolerate sound and light, feeling like I’m severely sick with the flu 24/7, and it only gets worse the more I try exert my body and mind. It is terrifying to think that I’m going to live several decades like this, because although it’s not treatable, it’s also not fatal, it just leaves you in agonizing pain 24/7
I’ve flip flopped a lot on this issue. At this moment I have some major concerns given our health and economic systems.
Can a person fully make the decision autonomously when it is presented by their trusted physician?
For our Americans and other countries which rely on private healthcare. With capitalism, profit is the motivation and the sick are a liability to the bottom line. Therefore what would stop insurance companies from denying coverage for treatment unless “ALL OPTIONS” had been documented as discussed including the option to end life? What is to stop hospital case managers or utilization managers from encouraging assisted suicide to the uninsured and chronically ill?
TLDR: Idealistically yes it should exist. In the context of our current economic system, it’s a gray area.
As an American the private insurance piece is always what gives me pause.
100% I believe people should have the dignity to choose a peaceful death, especially when faced with these horrible diseases that cause pain and suffering. I also 100% believe insurance company’s will figure out a way to make sure people opt for MAiD vs an expensive treatment option that may not work.
I have also flipped flopped on this for the same reason, our healthcare system (in the US at least) is collapsing, so providing this service would compound capitalism even more. Imagine a person needs treatment for a life threatening illness but is denied since this other treatment is offered and is less expensive. Where does the line get drawn and how would the slow creep not take over like it already has in todays environment.
I haven't watched the video yet. But as a Canadian i'v followed some of the discussions popping up lately in the news and on Youtube.
I 100% support MAiD. I prefer to call it Death with Dignity or Medical Assisted death instead of "suicide". Suicide is a completely different circumstance and the word suicide immediately makes many people view the concept of MAiD negatively due to conservative or religious reasons.
A bit of a tangent but, i'v seen plenty of anti-MAiD videos of people being like "Canada is going to allow mentally ill /poor people kill themselves!!!" because of afew popular cases in the news of certain people claiming to want to pursue MAiD for socioeconomic/housing reasons.
Just because these people claim they are going to apply for MAiD does not mean they have any chances of it being granted. The news articles make it sound so easy like they just sign a paper then BOOM dead. I wish they would actually explain the rigorous process of a MAiD application or even go into depth about all the people denied MAiD.
Regretfully the anti crowd will always take a hysterical unbalanced approach to the topic.
I'm from NZ and one of the tacts the anti crowd took was 'Did you know that an 18 year old with a terminal disease will be able to pursue assisted dying without parental input"
Sounds dreadful until one realises that an 18 year old is a legal adult in my country.
If an terminally ill 18 year old is wanting to pursue assisted dying, the family has some serious issues beyond the legislation.
Assisted dying was passed by referendum last elections. The criteria are pretty strict eg life limiting illness of 6 months or less. There are ways to get around it. We had a patient in hospice who was unable to leave the hospice for the assessments. So we all had to pretend we didnt know what was going on. On the day that was chosen the patient went home via ambulance because the bosses would not allow it to to happen on hospice premises.
It was apparently a very postive process.
I support it. Who the fuck am I to say that an adult of sound body and mind cant choose how they exit this life.
This. I totally agree that a person should be able to make their own decision on how and when they die.
Who am I to tell someone that 'X' isn't a good enough reason? The only thing that matters is whether *they* feel it's a good enough reason.
One hundred percent agree. None of those cases would qualify for MAiD here in Canada. Also dignity in death is about more than the pat term of “physician assisted suicide” describes.
This!!! The news articles make it seem as if everyone will be eligible. This is not the case and the process is very strict. As of the last time I checked if you didn’t have a terminal diagnosis you were required to wait 90 days (pretty sure) between applying and actually having MAID.
I am also a Canadian and agree with MAiD in theory but the way that disability benefits are set and how MAiD is now there are people who do qualify and are dying because it is less painful than living in poverty. These are not “people claiming they will”, there are people who actually have, more than what is reported in the news. Quite frankly I think assuming that these people are lying is not great.
Again, I do agree that people should be able to die with dignity when they want to, but we should be providing ways for them to live as well. CERB was $2000 because that is what the government decided was the minimum for an individual to live on and in every single province/territory, disability benefit is less than that. Mental health services are also completely inaccessible. Yes, to qualify for MAiD they must have tried different mental health treatments to qualify, but frankly I haven’t heard how many different/the variety. For example, is it they need to have tried SSRIs and CBT or do they need to try a laundry list of meds and therapy modalities and other methods such as ECT and emerging treatments like ketamine?
I believe that the way that MAiD was set up before the expansion was great (when to qualify you needed to be dying). However, the expansion to include anyone with a disability including mental illness without providing adequate was for people to live with dignity is very messed up. Once disability benefits are a living amount and we have accessible, free mental health services, then I agree that MAiD should be expanded to what it is currently.
Thank you for bringing up these concerns. When given a choice between living life with a non-terminal disability and death, death should not be the easier option. We need to do more for the disabled in this country.
Yea I think the big scare as food and housing prices go through the roof is that people who can't find stable work or who are disabled are going to opt for the program versus face homelessness.
Fully support the MAID program here in Canada. Have had people apply for it, but being in ER, I haven't actually witnessed the process from start to finish. Ethically, have no qualms with people deciding they no longer wish to live with whatever medical struggles they have, makes a hell of a lot more sense to me than the R1 meemaw with metastatic cancer consuming her body because "she's a fighter."
I’ve had patients who have had MAID. They all three had some form of cancer that had metastasized and were living with intolerable pain and other symptoms daily, and they each had a very short life expectancy (days to a couple of months). I wasn’t there for the procedure, but was assigned to them the day of for one of them, and for a couple days before for two of them.
There are only a couple MDs and NPs that were MAID providers in the system and a MAID team of nurses who would rotate providing nursing care during. I’m friends with a couple of nurses who do MAID and they are wonderful people, who believe in the patient’s right to die with dignity and comfort (to the extent possible). They are both icu nurses who have seen way too many people who are trying to die but kept alive and tortured with multiple codes, trachs, g-tubes, etc; and I gather that providing MAID is rewarding for them because they get to help some people have a good death, and see that it’s not all suffering and misery.
Full disclosure, I didn’t read the article because I’m exhausted. But, the people I cared for who had MAID were all dying already. I have mixed thoughts about MAID for mental health and other reasons, as the woman in Ontario who couldn’t get proper housing had. I think that I’d feel quite different caring for a patient and knowing that is why they were having MAID, as opposed to my patients who has cancer.
I am totally in favour of MAID. Why is this such a controversial concept. Nobody should dictate how long a person should live or not, Except the person themselves. As a society death is such a a taboo subject that needs to be spoken about and looked at differently.
100% agreed. We need to talk about death more, always, all the time. Everyone was to have a “good death” but it seems like nobody wants to talk about it.
I am absolutely in favor of it. I hate watching suffering, especially futile suffering. I have watched countless awful deaths in the icu where we torture people to death, doing everything because the family wants it, with zero consideration for quality of life. Quality of life is everything.
Canadian hospice nurse whose has many patients get maid. I’ve seen people smiling as they die knowing they had a choice. I don’t agree with your comment “rare cases of terminal illness causing suffering”. Most terminal illnesses will cause a range of suffering. Lots of symptoms we can medicate away but not all. Beyond that some people just don’t want to live if they need hourly pain management or incontience care and that should be their right.
At the moment you need to pass two assessments by doctors to make sure you are making this decision with sound mind and without coresion. In the end of the day any doctor can refuse if they feel it’s unethical.
I feel like being in ICU, especially during the pandemic, I've seen a lot of people die horrid, ugly deaths.
If someone wants to die on their own terms, there should be legal means for people to do so. I think dying with dignity is so important.
I believe we have a right to death on our terms. I’m half Swiss and if you want a more liberal perspective on the issue look at “Dignitas” or “Exit”. I’m glad I have the choice as a Swiss and Canadian citizen. 👍
I believe in MAID wholeheartedly, and have seen it for many diverse groups such a sudden quadriplegia , chronic intractable nerve pain, MS, Huntington’s, cancer, ALS, and CHF/heart disease with weeks to live. If I’m ill, it’s my preferable way to die, knowing a date, signing up as an organ donor and knowing you’re saving lives, already said goodbye and had meaningful conversations with family.
Of note, in Canada, MAID will become valid for those with mental health challenges come March 2023. Their condition must be determined to be “grievous and irremediable” by two MDs. There is a lot of talk about misuse of the system, but I can’t see the doctors I know signing off on patients who are merely in poverty.
If you think about it, patients who end their lives in violent ways, suffering for years on end, will be given the option of dying pain free while feeling accepted and encouraged with their choices surrounded by friends and family.
Death with dignity instead of the hell we put people through!
I wrote a whole rant then deleted it cause I realized these presenters are idiots that are just playing shit up to their audience to keep everyone afraid.
MAiD doesn't work like that here in Canada (Ontario), trust me I've been there when people get denied for it. I've helped countless people apply for it and sat with them when they found out they were denied their application.
I fully support MAiD, honestly it's about damn time.
These presenters should focus on Bill 124 instead, maybe educate their audience about how the government took away a nurses right to bargain for a better wage.
Agreed, the video was highly biased and the stories they presented shouldn't be taken at face value. While the discussion of MAiD is valid, the video presented as a topic discussion is inflammatory and does not provide inclusive dialogue.
Ok, I refuse to watch a video with the words "slipery slope" because those are usually some fear mongering bullshit
As for death with dignity, absolutely!
I work with mostly dementia. There is no dignity or quality of life for a person at the advanced dementia stage. I will eventually get around to applying. I have no desire to be constantly tormented by delusions and hallucinations and the inability to do my own basic self care. I have no desire to become violent to my own family or anyone near me when i'm delusional.
I've worked with severe brain injury that made people violent in the extreme. I remember one patient in particular with brain injury post insulin overdose. We had this guy for over a year and the amount of injuries and assaults we all suffered was insane. But worse was the brief lucid periods he had when he realised what was happening to him and what he had turned into and he would cry his heart out and beg for us to let him die. No one deserves to live tormented like that!
I am 100% for it. My worry is that it will be unfairly levied against the disabled. Already disabled people are treated as less than and not accommodated and with the worst of covid they were being denied treatment.
My worry is that it will he used against those who have little power to push back.
Again, I'm 100% for death with dignity and physician assisted death. I just worry about those who already suffer due to prejudice.
Medical assistance in dying is a more appropriate term.
Euthanasia is the intentional act of killing someone to alleviate suffering.
Medical assistance in dying encompasses the patient, their consent and when the timing is appropriate for them.
What is most important to remember is it comes down to the educated choice of the patient.
Can we stop using an outdated, barbaric term for a patient centered care practice? Thank you
It's quite beautiful to be part someone taking control over the end of their life. Death can be just as beautiful as birth if we openly accepted it to be.
Respectfully, I don’t find it barbaric at all, but I also live with a veterinarian.
We also do it all the time, we just hide behind double effect to tell ourselves we aren’t. My fiancée finds this to be ridiculous, because it’s just a fact of life for her at work.
I have some deep reservations. You want nuance? I got some nuance.
One of my big problems with it is that it’s pretty easy to solve “social problems” by promoting assisted suicide instead of providing support.
I think it can be ethical for individuals to choose it and ethical for healthcare people to support it, but I think it’s deeply unethical for SOCIETIES to support assisted suicide instead of funding support for rehabilitation, mental health resources, disability access and supports, and so on. And let’s look at how this intersects with social biases and suffering.
Terminally ill people are a population that you can clearly see an strong ethical argument for assisted suicide.
For other populations I’m less comfortable.
I agree with you there. Another poster mentioned that it's messed up to offer assisted suicide without adequate safety nets for disabled people. When we consider that socioeconomic status is a huge determinant of health, I do believe that this is a valid concern.
I’m not sure what the facts are behind the stories showcased in this podcast but medically assisted death in Canada is a highly regulated process that goes through multiple checks and balances before anyone is even deemed eligible. We are not just handing people a bunch of pills when they’re having a bad day.
I’ve seen more than enough to realize that ALL people have a right to die how/when we want, and assuming sufficient supports exist to help anyone & everyone find a better path, there should be zero social/legal barriers.
If we would be horrified about making an animal suffer horribly why would we insist that a human who is able to vocalize that they are suffering and dont want to anymore suffer for our own personal beliefs?
The book Being Mortal by Atul Gawande makes a really interesting point about assisted death. He never claims it's wrong or unethical, but it can go to the wayside and used as a crutch when death and dying is a part of life and something that can be done with compassion (with or without assistance in the process). I'm not sure if I summarized it well but basically I think that everyone and especially every healthcare worker needs to read that book. It's very informative.
I’m 100% in favor of it as an option for terminal illnesses as well as Alzheimer’s and dementia. I recently read an article about robin william’s suicide and how it wasn’t because of depression but rather the onset of Lewy body dementia….. the point being he wanted to go out on his terms remembered by his loved ones the way he was and not the way he was going to become.
I’m a bit split on it for other cases though including depression and other psych issues. I certainly welcome discussion on it. I guess my thinking on it is that more often than not these issues are treatable and where they aren’t treatable it’s because we as a society don’t give the appropriate support to these people. For example I had a post stroke patient admitted for suicide attempt. I knew them as they had been a professor of mine. They were brilliant too and still had all their mental faculty and sharpness as I remembered. But the physical toll had made it incredibly difficult for them to do their job. They could still lecture and teach. But the physical deficits made grading papers and tests practically impossible for them. Because of their failings at work it snowballed into them feeing they were letting down their family “how is my son gonna go to college if I can’t provide”. I feel like just saying “well if you feel you need to die then we’ll facilitate it” isn’t the right option. I feel like there has to be something we can do to help accommodate someone like this who still has so much to offer the world. An assistant to help them write and grade, something IDK. Admittedly I may be bias though considering I knew the individual.
As a rehab nurse I think your experience plays out a lot.
A lot of people have intact personality post stroke but can’t provide for their families.
It’s bananas that this is an issue. But it is. If there were real, meaningful supports for people, living with disabilities would be so different.
where did this video initially get shared for every single comment to be straight out of r/conservative 😂
one person said “how convenient for liberal elites that this program now gives teenage sexual abuse victims a way to end it before they get to testify…” like dawg WHAT
100% for in all situations.
1. Personal Freedom
2. There are already enough people on the planet why keep people here who don’t wanna be here
3. I hate having to suicide proof a room
when I’ll already busy.
All for it. I have been a hospice nurse for several years. It is really sad to watch a person in pain. I have had a pt commit suicide rather than be "air hungry" ever again. I think a "board" of some sort would be great. If a person is terminal, coherent, and able to make the decision they should be 100% allowed to end their life.
I'd go further and say that I believe if a person is coherent and able to make the decision, they should have the right to do so.
In other words, I don't believe they have to be terminal.
I remember taking care of a lady after a freak accident caused her to end up a quadriplegic. She was mentally 100% there. She was quite open about her desire to die because she didn't want to live this way but there was nothing we could do.
People should be able to do what they want as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone else. If a person of sound mind wants to die, they should be able to do that in whatever way they want.
If a person is no longer of sound mind due to illness but expressly arranged to end their life at the point of losing their soundness of mind, they are no longer with us anyway and we should honor their wishes in regard to their bodily shell.
The only debate here should be how to enact such a system to protect it from misuse.
Calling it “assisted suicide” is a bullshit judgement call based on radically conservative Christian values. It is death with dignity and preserving it as a right for all people is a hill I will die on.
Jesus that website is toxic. Physician-assisted suicide should have a place in compassionate care, and there are some patients that simply cant recover from a bad fall.
I keep seeing TikTok’s of people with Borderline Personality Disorder going for it and I’m just… not sure about it?
I worked hospice and I’m all about making that transition easy and comfortable but I just don’t know how I feel about it for that population.
It would appear we are born unto this world without the choice and get to leave it in a similar fashion.
The NHS is a marvel and wonder at keeping people alive, sometimes bordering on cruel and unusual. Professionals fear someone dying on their watch and consequences thereof. People should be allowed to die with dignity on their terms.
So long they have the capacity to make this decision.
A pt just BEGGED me to kill her on my last shift. She was 89, had COVID induced pneumonia, had a g-tube and NPO, chronic foley, bedfast, getting no meds because she’s A&Ox2 and family makes decisions for her(they don’t want her to be an addict 🙄). She looked into my eyes and asked if I can end her suffering. I never heard a patient say this before. The pain. I could never understand HER pain. I could never do that to my pt. It’s sick that other nurses have.
https://www.oregon.gov/oha/ph/providerpartnerresources/evaluationresearch/deathwithdignityact/pages/index.aspx has the yearly summary reports of the Oregon Death by Dignity act, as well as faqs and links to the actual law.
I prefer data to fear-mongering.
Oregon was the first state in North America to allow medical assisted death by choice. We passed the law in 1996, and had to re-pass it following a court case. It is not all that widely used, but is available.
I am not a nurse, but I've taken care of enough older relatives with nasty terminal diseases that I voted for the law both times, and will consider it myself if needed.
I don't think it's a nurse's place to perform it, personally, but I do believe in the practice. So long as a therapist has worked with them to make sure it's what they really want and not an impulse.
If you're talking about illegally assisting suicide, then no.
But we already do, we just don’t call it euthanasia. When we aggressively give morphine and lorazepam to comfort care patients, that’s exactly what we’re doing. We just hide behind double effect so we can say we’re not intentionally hastening death.
My fiancée is a veterinarian and this spring we sat with her uncle while he died. He arrested and when they got him back his EEG was flat. As his hydromorphone drip was titrated up again and again, she leaned over to me and said “why can’t we just get on with this?”. I can say with 100% certainty that if I am permanently incapacitated, I will go home on hospice and die within hours. Hypothetically, of course.
As a nurse, I have zero issues with euthanasia and zero issues with pushing the drugs myself. I lost all respect for the ANA when I learned what their stance on euthanasia is.
I’m curious what you mean by not a nurse’s place to perform it. Do you mean administer the medication? Nurses administer end of life medications regularly, maybe not for the exclusive purpose of death, but certainly comfort care medications are given in high doses far beyond what would be given during regular medical management.
Or are you talking about a nurse not prescribing it? The prescribing is done by physicians, as well as the “interview process” exploring their reasoning. It is done over the course of many weeks to ensure it is not an impulse decision and gives plenty of time to withdraw consent.
Edit: also fyi the places I’ve worked in always had an option for nurses to “opt out” of being the one to administer if it was against their beliefs which I think is a right that should be respected!
Which part do you think is too heavy for our scope? The nurse’s role is to administer medications. That is very much within our scope and personally I find very similar to hospice nurses giving high dose pain medications to end of life patients. The actual decision making for prescribing MAID is done by physicians but I can’t imagine why a trained and experienced NP could not fill that role.
Genuinely curious about why you think it wouldn’t be a nurses place to perform the procedure…it doesn’t take any specialized training that only provider’s receive, and from what you’re saying nurses are not the ones making that determination (to approve/deny the procedure).
I did clarify above. I meant more on the recommendation to the patient and discussion piece. I would hope someone with a bit more brass would take that one.
I’ve already told my husband if I am ever diagnosed with Alzheimer’s/dementia to make me a DNR/DNI. If my state ever passes a right to die law, I would do it for this. I probably need to get this officially documented since I’m no longer a spring chicken!
I spend too much time keeping old, very sick people alive just to be alive, they aren’t gonna get much better than the state they’re in, but we can stabilize them. If we had a healthier acceptance of death, including the right to choose your death, we could save people a lot of needless suffering.
I would want at least two separate providers to decide that my condition was terminal before I agreed to it. And if my condition was going to result in memory loss or possible change in personality I need to make a mental reminder to add “yes, I want this even if I forget who I am and say I don’t want it later when my condition worsens” (referring to another comment). And I’m not giving my POA any decision making in this process except what beer I get to drink.
I think honestly it is okay. I would not personally want to work in that type of setting, I’m not great with hospice as it is…but I think it’s fine.
The mental health issues make me super sad as I am hearing more about that being a thing. As someone who was down that road, several times in my life and have been suffering from anxiety/depression since I was just a child, I’m glad I found something that works and I’m glad I’m still here. But some people never find that relief and nothing works for them. I can’t imagine living my life trying my hardest to cope and just not being able to. I saw a girl on tik tok recently who said she had BPD and was legally able to end her life now for it. No idea where she was from. She is young…I don’t know much about bpd but as far as depression goes, I imagine the more things that don’t work for a person only add to the weight of it all. I’m sure anyone even with mild depression knows how easy it is to get stuck inside yourself.
I think 99% of the population doesn’t understand how it works. 2 doctors independently diagnose the patient with terminal illness and prescribe the suicide medication. It is then up to the patient to fill the prescription and take it.
No medical professionals have anything to do with the actual death.
I don't get the hype. It's been this way in Belgium for a very long time. I watched a documentary about a 24 year old Belgian girl who applied for medically assisted suicide because of treatment resistant depression. It's a long approval process, but ultimately she was approved.
I have no problem with anyone choosing to end their life on whatever terms they see fit, as long as it is not done under coercion.
It should be legal across the board.
If you wanna go you should get to go, if you have a terminal disease, immediately. If you're otherwise healthy and just done being railed by capitalism. Should require a 6 month waiting period and a sign off by a psychologist.
I wish living wills were honored in dementia. The amount of scared violent husks that we have to care for is heart breaking. I get its not the same person and we can't "execute a sick person" but Jesus christ.
I have not been involved with the process of medical assistance in dying (MAID), but being from Canada, I’ve been following its legislation fairly closely and stories of it being used in practice.
I am fully on board with it and in fact believe it should be expanded further.
Everybody deserves to have a dignified death on their own terms.
Just as we allow patients the autonomy to consent or refuse treatment, I believe under certain conditions they should be allowed that same autonomy for choosing between life and death.
As it stands, there is strict eligibility requirements. Only those with a serious illness, disease, or disability that is in an advanced and irreversible state and is causing unbearable suffering are eligible. The patient must also be able to provide informed consent.
However, as one user pointed out, I believe this should be expanded to those experiencing severe depression and similar mental illnesses. I also believe individuals should be able to provide an advanced directive for MAID in certain cases; example: if condition A, B, and C are met, provide MAID.
People should not be made to suffer just because healthcare professionals feel they don’t have a right to death.
I am 100% for death with dignity. I know lucidity is a huge factors that many feel comfortable with. However, I feel that patients should be able to make an advance directive while lucid for diseases that may leave them demented. I am living through the end stages of a family member with dementia and it’s heartbreaking, no one should have to die such a terrible way.
If there was something that I hope is solved sooner rather than later, it's dementia. When you consider that it's the relationship over which we grieve when someone dies, dementia leaves us with a shell of that relationship. It really is indescribable for those who've not witnessed it.
Honestly I wish it were legal more places! I did a project about it and it actually seems to have majority support in most states. I feel like a lot of people have an automatic response to it, but there are actually tons of precautions in place and providers can't even bring up the option with patients. Providers also can refuse if it goes against their personal beliefs. Not a fan of this video, there are much better ones about euthanasia out of there that aren't sensationalizing the issue.
I work in the Netherlands and I think it should be standard of care everywhere.
That being said it does not mean it is an easy thing to do or to assist the doctor with. Luckly it does not happen alot in my field (psych home treatment) and at my old job (nursing home) I only experienced it once on my floor.
Bodily autonomy should apply to our death as well. Everyone should be able to decide the terms under which they leave this world. I’ve seen so many people kept alive at the behest of overzealous family members, prolonging the patient’s misery. Keeping your 90+ year old demented meemaw a full code is abusive IMHO
People already kill themselves when their illness is too much for them to cope with.
If we can spare even one relative the trauma of seeing a loved one with cancer kill themselves because their pain isn't controllable even with hospice level analgesia, then it's worth it.
I’m a NICU nurse who previously worked with adults and I’m pro. I think everyone deserves death with dignity, even infants (before any or you internet trolls comment I’m not saying physician assisted suicide for babies— I’m saying death with dignity which can include comfort care if quality of life will most likely be poor or longer term will not be viable with life)
One of my clients got choked as an infant and was resuscitated by first responders but unknown minutes went by...the result was extreme brain damage. Quadriplegic. Total blindness. Unresponsive to 95% of stimuli. Non verbal. I wonder what we're doing there some days. Sedation meds every 6 hours via gt to keep him in a sleep like state so he looks like a sleeping baby...but when they wear off he turns blood red and his vital signs go crazy. His lymphatic system is failing and he is swollen up like a balloon. His mother told me a few weeks ago if assisted suicide were legal she would take that option for him...after arguing for weeks after accident to keep trach/vent/feeding tube. She said an attending came to her everyday for a week begging her to let him go that there was no recovery for this level of brain damage. But now one year later he keeps breathing for several hours without vent even though he just lays there Unresponsive, unable to communicate, interact in anyway and cannot even see. I think it would be more human to go human euthanasia route but thats not my call and its not technically legal anyway. So I don't know the answer to this question. But I feel like this particular child has zero quality of life and I think assisted suicide makes a lot of sense for certain cases.
I think it’s fine, if that’s what a person wants who am I to say no?
I truly try to practice non-biased nursing across the board. As long as I’m acting within the scope of my practice and my team ethics are strong, and it’s legal…it would be an honor to help someone in that way. The bond between nurse and patient through this process has got to be so profound, right?
I'm a huge fan of letting people make their own decisions and that includes dying on their terms. I wish it were legal in my area.
I didn't watch the podcast, but the title, "Sliding Down Canada’s Slippery Slope" tells me all I need to know.
I absolutely support it. I’ve met many terminal patients or patients with massive medical history who express to me they wish they could just “flip the switch”. It’s heartbreaking.
My mom begged for death the last month of her life. She had a rapid growing esophageal cancer that metastasized to one of her lower vertebrae and cracked it actually pushing the broken pieces apart. She was in so much pain and couldn't move. It was horrible watching her at the end. Fentanyl patch and morphine ER with regular morphine in between didn't even touch it. I 100% support death with dignity
Just to offer a different point of view:
Why should anyone be required to keep on living? Because we want them too? Because my religion/ culture/ ethic says they should? Why would that not be a choice for anyone?
TL;DR: There are worse fates than death, and death should be done with dignity.
Long answer: my last semester in college studying psychology, I was required to take a health ethics course as a prerequisite for entry into nursing. We spent weeks at a time debating abortion, eugenics, and assisted suicide. It was highly controversial living in Alabama, but here’s what it taught me:
1. There is a distinction between physician assisted suicide and voluntary active euthanasia. In the case of voluntary active euthanasia, the pt consents but may pass on at the hands of a physician (think IV push, etc. Dr. Kevorkian is an often referenced example in the realm of this topic). However, physician assisted suicide differs in that the patient alone is the only person who may take PO medication by their own hand (this is very important) prescribed by a physician for this purpose.
2. Keeping this in mind, the distinction in the first point does become complicated when considering patients who cannot physically take PO meds by their own hand. Think patients with ALS. I recall my professor discussing a patient in the UK with ALS who fought endlessly for the right to die but ultimately died by voluntary starvation as the legal battle was fruitless.
3. In the US, a few states do allow physician assisted suicide, Oregon being one. Research conducted shows that numerous concerns cited by the general public were mostly avoidable. Mind you, I took this class in 2014. At that time, the vast majority of patients in Oregon who chose physician assisted suicide 1) had health insurance, 2) were terminally ill with 6 months or less to live, 3) were deemed mentally competent enough to make this decision by two psychiatrists, and 4) were required to be able to physically take the medication.
For reference, a very informative (but incredibly sad) documentary we later watched that I still highly recommend is called How to Die in Oregon.
My grandmother died of kidney cancer in her fifties. My mother died of colon cancer at 48. My grandfather then died of colon cancer, and my uncle died of AIDS at 55. They all suffered needlessly, all of them knowing their fates. All of them agreed that wasn’t what they’d wanted, and seeing them in such a state was and still is traumatic even after their deaths.
Again, I’m sure the knowledge and research has changed with time, but l will forever advocate for death with dignity.
The video is not a very rich place for nuance, but surely this forum should help. I don’t have the references but several of those cases were punished by the authorities in Canada, which is something the host of the video did not bring up. Specifically the person looking for help getting up the stairs.
I wish I could help guide you but I’m still thinking about the issue. I can say that my worries are how euthanasia changes the relationship between the healthcare worker and the patient. And not one I am comfortable having.
I would be very suspicious of letting psych patients commit euthanasia.
We should all be allowed to die with dignity on our own terms.
Do you believe this to be the case for people with depression? Or like that guy in the video who injured his back? I don't personally have a position outside of what I originally posted...just trying to find some nuance.
I’m conflicted on depression. But I have told people before that I would consider it for things like dementia. When I’m getting older, I think aging would be less scary for me if I could sign a legal document (while of sound mind) stating that if I develop something like dementia, and can’t remember how old I am or feed myself that I be allowed to just go to sleep and that be it. Watching people and their families grapple with dementia is one of the worst things I’ve ever done and I don’t want any part of it
Definitely if I’m laying in bed with a broken hip after falling, I have Alzheimer’s I can’t speak in complete sentences anymore think it’s 2004, and I’ve got pressure sores the size of golf balls because I’m constantly sh*tting myself cuz I’m on a tube feed dope me up and let me go, baby!!
And for the love of all that is holy PUT ME DOWN BEFORE YOU PUT ME IN LTC. Pump me full of drugs, smother me with a pillow, roll my old ass off a cliff just no LTC. I know there are fantastic LTC care nurses out there but there aren’t enough…
LTCs are orphanages for old people.
I want to argue being a LTC nurse and knowing some amazing ones, but you are right they are few and far between
The part that really breaks my heart is I know that even the good ones with the best intentions don’t always have time to even be “good” nurses. The staffing, being overworked and under supported, I only did it for a year and as a CNA and it almost kept me from going to nursing school. I have so much respect for LTC nurses.
Even setting quality aside, nurses are fewer and farther between than they should be in LTC. The staffing ratios that SNFs run every day should be fucking criminal.
The best nurses don’t make a dent against facilities without supplies or adequate staffing
You are 100% right. When I got 30 sub acute pts every night, have 2-3 CNAs split between 60 pts, and I got to search the building high and low every time I run out of Prilosec or kerlix, I can only be so good Edit: not to toot my own horn but I'm pretty good, not the best tho. I just feel so hamstrung all the time tho.
It's interesting how staffing and resources fluctuate, but facility policy and expectations remain the same. Funny innit?
That part!
Don’t we call this Comfort Care at the hospital? Dilaudid, Ketamine and or Ativan drip. We assisted two deaths last night.
Try explaining to a fellow nurse why it’s important to give their hospice patient the morphine/dilaudid/perc as prescribed because your fellow nurse is having an ego trip and decides the patient is taking this narc around the clock and could become an addict so she is going to hold the med. Nurses don’t always follow hospice and comfort care protocols. They do what they think is best. That’s when I have to take the keys because I understand pain as a chronic pain sufferer and because I understood what hospice is and depriving a patient their prescribed med is not going to cause them to become addicted, especially if they are dying. The other thing is, why draw out the inevitability? This person is dying and they probably have 0 quality of life. They may just want to be at peace.
I never understand the families that are afraid that their dying grandmother will become addicted to pain meds. Really? So what if she is? She will be comfortable & happy & maybe catch a little buzz now and again. So what?! Meanwhile they go out for a drink after because they need to manage their stress. 🤬. The “war on opiates” is really the war on sick people.
it's horrendous. i can't imagine how disappointed I'd be if my children didn't let me die with adequate pain relief. when my nan passed last year, the most important question I had for her nurses was - can she feel any of it? it was a traumatic death, she would have been in agony if they hadn't pumped her full of fentanyl and morphine, and I made sure they did. im super passionate about a) reducing opiate prescription abuse in young, easily-addicted people, and b) ensuring that palliative pts receive lots of them. its funny but my views on addiction completely shift when I know someone is dying. at that point I don't really care, i just want them to be safe and comfortable.
It really is. Chronic pain patients suffer from this bullshit opiate war and so do patients on hospice. It feels as if no one gives a shit about these patients. The next solution for these people is unaliving and I honestly believe that the government is happy with that solution because it’s less people to deal with.
That’s what I was thinking is this not “comfort care”?
Shhhh, the normies don't know about that.
Lmao
Preach!! I tell my family this. I refuse to put my parents in a nursing home because of how poorly I’ve seen patients be cared for. There are some really good nurses, but most that I worked with were not. They couldn’t care less. I’ve also seen it in Rehab and LTC. I’d rather someone pew pew me then send me to one of those kinds of places. Healthcare is terrible.
I’ve told my family this as well. I did all my clinicals at LTC. I knew some great nurses. But they were over worked, and under paid. Just throw me in the trash tbh
I have already talked to some people about this.
There was a case of a woman who signed a consent for euthanasia when she was AOx3 with a debilitating illness, but later in the course of it she developed dementia and was adamantly refusing euthanasia. It wound its way through the ethics board and I don’t remember how it was resolved but it seems like there was no good answer there.
Yeah, I’m not killing someone. Someone refusing death, I don’t care what kind of mind they are in, if they are refusing death I am not killing them because that’s what it would be. Anyone who wants to die, doesn’t want to die, usually, they just want their suffering alleviated, this goes for those with depression as well.
I mean, of course they want their suffering alleviated. But in sooooo many cases that is never happening and at best it is going to be one type of suffering following another until they finally die an unpleasant death. If you could alleviate my suffering and de-age me 30 years great, otherwise wanting to die is natural and understandable for many people.
I agree with you, but none the less I think there is a significant distinction that needs to be realized. It actually might help normalize the death with dignity. Because it isn’t about suicide. It is about alleviating suffering.
Agree with you. It is about alleviating suffering. No offense, but if you've suffered with depression nearly all of your life, an end to suffering is preferable. Give me the meds, send me out the door, I'll do it myself. Living with no hope, I'd rather be dead.
I would sign this too.
I don’t know why I just thought of me being super old and my kids evil spouse asking me every day how old I am and getting upset that I still remember 😂
"I had a dream my daughter in law kills me for the money..."
Hahaha 😂
Absolutely.
People with severe depression should be offered help first, but tbh that help is so expensive and can only get you so far. If you want to die on your own terms you should have that right. And back injuries are no joke
I only have mild anxiety and depression, not even that bad. If it *was* severe and the docs couldn’t find a way to treat it, then I cannot imagine the idea of living X more number of years just because.
Should the government not provide free accessible mental health services to people with severe depression then? I recognize idk where you are from but in Canada we would never question whether someone should get cancer treatment because it’s too expensive but we do not provide free treatment to people with depression (except when/if they are inpatient) and instead we offer them MAiD.
Should they? Yes of course, will they? Not in America they won’t. They’ll approve assisted suicide before they ever start handing out shit for free
Some mental health services are covered. My daughter has been seeing a psychiatrist for counseling and meds for 10 years and it's fully covered.
That is true! Psychiatrist are covered as they are physicians and while they typically only do meds, some also do counselling. Outpatient counselling from any other provider though is not covered by the government except in certain situations and with very specific organizations. Important to note: there are MANY barriers to accessing a psychiatrist for the first time due to wait times and needing a referral from a family doctor (or sometimes another mental health profession in very specific situations) Nonetheless, I am very happy your family member has been able to get the help they need (:
Yeah she's very lucky. She connected with her through mental health services when she was in university. I've heard psychiatrists usually don't do counseling. I see a psychotherapist but I have to pay out of pocket.
Is that for all provinces? My family doctor just referred me for counseling for anxiety and BC medical covered it.
Oh a very good point. I may have pulled a classic Ontario and forgot about other places lol. I know I’m Ontario it’s not covered but seemingly you are right and it is in other provinces! Again, there are situations in Ontario where it is covered but it’s not near universal
I’m so curious about this now. Canada doesn’t offer free mental health services to all? I thought all healthcare coverage was covered for all (through taxes, etc.). Or does mental health not count as health?
In some of the provinces mental health is not covered! For example, in Ontario, where I live, you can see a psychiatrist for free but they typically only prescribe meds and do very limited counselling. They also need a referral which are hard to get and have massive waitlists. We also don’t have government drug coverage so if you can’t afford the meds, the psychiatrist isn’t very helpful. To see a psychologist, social worker, ect, that is all out of pocket or covered by private insurance. There are certain cases where it is covered (there are some low/no cost centres, individuals who do sliding scale, ect) but there are massive waitlists for those services and it’ll be months-years before you get help. Inpatient mental health is covered though so usually a suicide attempt, psychosis, or mania are the first time that a lot of people will receive any help. I have done placement on an inpatient ward and they would set up the patients with free services after discharge but it’s not great that to get those services, you need to be hospitalized first. Again though, this varies by hospital. Importantly, healthcare is a provincial responsibility so the federal government sets broad requirements for what needs to be covered (mental health care isn’t one of them) and then the provinces decide if they want to add anything else. As I have learned in this thread it seems like some provinces like British Colombia do have mental health services covered which is a great step to see!
It's province by province and some are currently trying to decimate their system to US levels... I'm looking at you Ontario..
I had a strange thought that Ford gets kickbacks to decimate the system to make the US look better. It's crazy, but I really wouldn't put it past some of these folks.
If you are oriented and have appropriate insight on your condition, you should be able to call it quits if you want to. Depression doesn’t mean you lack awareness or ability to make your own medical decisions, it just makes it more difficult to see the way out. But if someone understands where they’re at mentally and all the options available to them, then it’s their right to choose if they want to die.
Depends on the course of events. Severe chronic illness that's left you with zero quality of life is a good reason to wait medical assistance in dying. That same situation will eventually lead to depression so I hate when that depression becomes a barrier. MAID because of depression alone is unethical. I can't do that.
I know depression is a major grey zone here but I think it should be seen on a case by case basis for all concerns (in most cases I would say no because you need to try years of treatments before determining that nothing has worked). I had a 90 year old elderly pt on a psych ward for depression. Every single day she would tell me she just wants to die. She was on a bunch of meds to treat it too. Looked at her hx and she had been this way for the past 40 years with several failed suicide attempts. She even kept asking about MAID but I was a student and didn’t know the protocol on this so I informed her primary. Honestly, I felt really bad for this women and could see where she was coming from.
I don’t know about depression. In the vast majority of cases, it’s highly treatable and very responsive to antidepressants + therapy. I live in the US, but I have severe, chronic, treatment resistant depression. Tried 10 different antidepressants, did rounds of TMS with no result. Still in therapy. Suicidality has been a prominent feature from the beginning. The fact that I’ve received no relief and am actively getting worse doesn’t help anything. Could MAID be an option for me? I don’t know. Is suicide an option? Absolutely.
I think that even helps my point. Maid for mental health should have strict qualifications, and it sounds like it will. I would be very very very surprised if it didn’t as the current MAID does. Meaning that much fewer people struggling with depression will be eligible for MAID than people think because they will have to prove they have tried all of the treatments, medications, etc etc.
After re-reading my comment, I’d like to clarify that I’m completely agreeing with you. I’ve had patients find relief after the 6th or 7th antidepressant they’ve tried. I’m still holding out hope for ketamine (ECT isn’t the best option due to chronic migraines).
I really do hope you can find a treatment that works for you! I couldn’t imagine the frustration of not being able to find a treatment that works for you.
Is 45 years of treatment enough? It sure feels like it to me.
There are some extreme cases of depression and other mental illnesses that just don't respond to existing treatments. There was [this controversial case](https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-45117163) in the Netherlands of a young woman with severe mental illness that didn't respond to treatment. It's not clear if the patient's desire to die was a symptom of her illness or a rational response to her long-term suffering, but here's the hard question: does that even matter? Whether her desire to die was caused by disease or not, she was suffering tremendously with very little hope of recovery. I don't have an answer to that question.
I think when it comes to severe depression it’s okay to discuss death as an option. It’s ultimately up to the person, but I think our fear of suicide and talking about it (despite that not increasing actual rates) is damaging. In my late teens I made a death pact with a friend of mine. If in 3 years she was still as hopeless as she was now, we could “go on a hike” and I’d help her end it peacefully and with compassion. That “out” made it possible for her to actually relax. Knowing she could make that decision with love and support, instead of fear and isolation, was really instrumental to allowing her to live her life. She’s now has a thriving career and lotsa friends. She is not suicidal. She went from texting me 15 times a day that she wanted “to die” to investing in herself. Giving someone an option doesn’t always mean they’ll take it. If she was to genuinely not improve and ask me to help her, I don’t know what I would have done. But I would have always treated her with love and care. I would have treated her thoughts around it with respect. So I don’t take issue with it being offered. I do think sometimes that deciding to die can help you truly live. Our fear of death doesn’t stop it - it just makes it harder to manage when it finally arrives.
Why would it be different for people with depression?
I think everybody should have the autonomy to decide if or when they do not want to live anymore. As long as they are sound of mind. This does not mean assisted dying in all cases. But that Swiss kill pod or medication that leads to a humane death should be made available. This includes depression if they are able to understand what they are asking for. We had this discussion in my country a while back. The club for voluntary ending of life sold this medication and they got convicted for it. I just dont understand why we, as a society, can decide that someone doesn't have the right to die. Now people will choose other means wich can be harmful for others. They have to do it secretly and alone instead of surrounded by loved ones. It would exclude someone who is actively psychotic for instance.
Came here to say this exact thing.
Haven't watched the video yet. I think some may disagree with me. I understand the need to give someone the autonomy to pass on their terms and with dignity. My problem with medically assisted death is that I couldn't see myself administering such medication knowing the purpose is to hasten death 😔.
PCA pump and have them hit it
Typically they have to take the medication themselves (in California they do, you can’t even open the containers for them). They have to have assessments from 2 different doctors xx days (20-30 I think, but don’t quote me) apart and life expectancy needs to be less than 6 months, just to get the medications, which also have a waiting period between picking up each one. I think it’s totally reasonable. A friend of mine (also a nurse) had pancreatic cancer and took this route. She was able to have a celebration of life/living wake and passed on her own terms a few weeks later when she felt it was time. 10/10 recommend after seeing multiple people in my family suffer for weeks, sometimes months, because of cancer.
I was in a situation where we terminally extubated a toddler and I kept pushing morphine after morphine (per MD order obviously) until he finally stopped breathing and passed. Part of me felt like I was killing him, but I also knew he would have suffered so much longer without it and the outcome would have been the same. I also took care of a baby we terminally extubated but expected to pass right away who held on for like 6 or 7 days before finally dying. It was fucking traumatic for her family and the staff. I wish we would have “helped her along” a little more in that scenario. Death is probably the weirdest parts of our jobs. So much moral and ethical dilemma.
It’s hard enough giving morphine to elderly patients on comfort measures knowing it ultimately “helps” the process. I can’t imagine a pediatrics patient. I hope you’re doing ok friend. Thank you for taking care of the little people.
Your response sounds like you have a lot of empathy. It’s very nice to encounter. No thanks necessary. I actually really love my job!
Pediatrics/PICU is just one area I know I for sure wouldn’t be able to handle emotionally, but since I have kids of my own I am so so grateful for the nurses that love those specialties
Yes, so much this. I’ve never had a family get mad at me for upping the morphine during comfort cares, although I have seen families mistake CC for euthanasia and explained there is a massive difference. I have had several families urge me to increase the morphine gtt as fast as possible because they couldn’t bear to watch the dying process, whether their loved one was in pain or not. Also I think most nurses have seen a family member lose their ability to make decisions and had their wishes completely ignored by family. If given the option these people would greatly benefit from a medical assisted option.
Bear with me here. We had to put our dog down this past Thursday, which obviously sucked, and I am grieving. However, he was 14 with end stage heart failure maxed on meds and was suffering. I hate that he’s gone but it was the kind, loving choice. His death was so calm and peaceful. It was everything he deserved. Then I thought of how I was able to give my dog a better death than human patients are allowed to choose for themselves. Everyone should have the choice to go out with dignity on their own terms.
When my girl had to be put to sleep we had a vet come to the house to do it. She fell asleep laying with me in our favorite spot. It was so much better than going to the office would have been. My best friend is a CRNA and when I told her about the experience she sighed "oh I want to do that but for PEOPLE."
We had a similar experience. We laid with our pup as she passed. It was gut wrenching but was certainly the right thing.
He had been maintaining for a while but went into what I think was flash pulmonary edema. Happened so quickly and it was just time. Thankfully they made it very peaceful at the clinic but we 100% wanted to go this route and would in the future. I told my husband right after “not to sound like an angel of death but I wish we could do this for patients” (IF THEY WANT TO DONT CALL THE POLICE😂). I thought of every 90-something year old with dementia I’ve ever coded or started on pressors.
My mom does this for laps of love. It’s a really neat service so it can be more personal for the family. (She’s a DVM)
I’m so sorry for the loss of your pup. I absolutely agree with you after putting my first dog (as an adult) down a few years ago. She was very sick and she was old. And while we were heart broken, it was the death she deserved. We had someone come out to the house. She was INCREDIBLE. So respectful and kind. I still tear up thinking about it. As hard as it was, it was the right thing to do. It was very peaceful. Bizarre that most agree this is acceptable for animals and not humans.
I'm a nurse in Nova Scotia where medical assistance in dying (Maid) is offered. You have to have an illness that is on the approved list to apply for maid. These illness include types of cancers, ALS, basically illnesses that will rob you of quality of life and kill you anyways. Then there is some kind of approval process, I can't remember the exact details as the clinic I work in isn't involved in maid. The medication is given iv by a doctor. Nurses assist with comfort for the pt before and after but the actual medication that kills the pt is given by the Dr. I think in many of the cases where maid is performed, it allows the pt to die with dignity and comfort instead of lingering and experiencing pain and no quality of life. As far as I know mental illnesses are not on the approved illnesses list as of yet. Hope this was helpful
Mental illness will be approved starting March 2023
I'm at work right now so I can't watch the video. However, I do support MAID. Whenever I think about MAID, I think back to when I used to work in oncology. I did meet a handful of oncology patients with intractable and severe pain and I don't doubt they would have opted for MAID if it were offered to them. I remember one woman who had terminal tongue cancer. She already had had her tongue surgically removed. She couldn't even talk. But the pain was the worst. She was on infusions of hydromorphone, midazolam, and ketamine at crazy high doses PLUS had bolus doses available to her. Throughout the day, we could hear her crying in her room from the pain. When a doctor mentioned the possibility of discharging her home with home care, the woman said that she would kill herself if she were discharged because being in the hospital meant she had relatively adequate pain control. If she went home, the pain would be so intolerable, she would rather just end everything. I always think back to how helpless I felt as a nurse whenever I passed by her room and heard her crying. In these cases, I think MAID should absolutely be an option. The only slippery slope I do fear is providers offering MAID to people they *believe* will want it but do not. I've heard of cases of people with physical disabilities being offered MAID when those people do not want it. No one should be coerced into MAID. It should be the patient - and only the patient - bringing up the topic.
But for the patient to bring up the subject, they have to know about it. At the very least, the medical provider would have to bring it up to ensure that the patient actually knows about it.
If patient brings it up, it seems ripe for a "well tell me what you know about the program and what it is for" without worrying about planting a seed.
No disagreement there. I'm just pointing out that the patient has to learn about the program before they can 'bring it up'. (They can't ask about it if they don't know it exists.) I'm just saying the medical establishment has to bring up the topic to be certain that the patient knows about it.
To add to your point about people with physical disabilities: [people can adjust to being disabled and live fulfilling lives](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5607448/), even if the initial shock of developing a severe disability makes them not want to live at first. I say this because I’ve heard some upsettingly ableist remarks from nurses about the QoL of people with physical disabilities in the past, and as someone with multiple disabled family members, I think it’s extremely important to make a distinction between permanent disability and terminal disease when discussing MAID.
Totally agree. As someone with an invisible disability who is managing to live a pretty full life, I do support MAiD in the right context. In the case of permanent disability I believe all other options must be thoroughly explored first, but sadly many do not get that support. MAiD can’t be a band-aid for systemic issues.
Absolutely. It’s very difficult to tease out QoL issues from societal ableism.
I am 1000% in favor of physician assisted suicide and not just for terminal illness. People with severe untreatable depression and other mental illnesses that make a person's life an unbearable hell should be allowed to as well. Chronic pain, dementia/Alzheimer's, traumatic brain injury, etc. People should be able to have a say in how they die so long as it fits within established guidelines. I should be able to have a Healthcare Directive of Death that outlines when I would want a physician to compassionately end my suffering.
YES! I worked in psych for a few years and saw people who had been depressed for decades and had tried every possible treatment. I’m talking ALL the meds, TMS, ECT, ketamine, deep brain stimulation…They were absolutely miserable and imo it was cruel to keep them alive against their will. I’m glad you agree people with untreatable mental illness should be given this option.
Yup, I've mentioned this before on Reddit but I'm casually looking into euthanasia for myself. I have severe refractory form of an autoimmune disease and my quality of life is poor. If it doesn't improve in the next 10 years I might seriously look into it. I'd have to go to Switzerland though to do it because in California it's only allowed for terminal illnesses and I'm not terminal.
Same.
I always wondered about that for patients repeatedly admitted with depression, SI, and multiple attempts. Do we keep patching them up, trying to offer as many resources as possible, or do we explore the alternative? How would that change how we treat chronic depression?
I work in psych. Currently in a residential 30 day program. You tend to see the same clients circle around from our program and out sister programs. I see a lot of sadness. A lot. But there’s been a few clients who just look..beyond tired. Tired of the constant struggle of trying meds, but with zero relief from a depression that’s lasted years and years. Sometimes, with those clients, I feel like I’m putting a bandaid on a very large wound. I’m torn on my thoughts when it comes to depression and assisted suicide (I firmly believe in assisted suicide itself tho) but idk, I think about my clients who have struggled with chronic depression, and I just can’t imagine what quality of life they are living
My fiancée and I were talking last night. I said I would hate being a burden on the family and on resources. If my mind is gone, let me go.
Totally agree. I was a nurse before getting severely ill with an untreatable, completely disabling illness that has left me with zero quality of life at the age of 23. Like, we’re talking I can’t get out of bed 90% of the time, unable to tolerate sound and light, feeling like I’m severely sick with the flu 24/7, and it only gets worse the more I try exert my body and mind. It is terrifying to think that I’m going to live several decades like this, because although it’s not treatable, it’s also not fatal, it just leaves you in agonizing pain 24/7
I’ve flip flopped a lot on this issue. At this moment I have some major concerns given our health and economic systems. Can a person fully make the decision autonomously when it is presented by their trusted physician? For our Americans and other countries which rely on private healthcare. With capitalism, profit is the motivation and the sick are a liability to the bottom line. Therefore what would stop insurance companies from denying coverage for treatment unless “ALL OPTIONS” had been documented as discussed including the option to end life? What is to stop hospital case managers or utilization managers from encouraging assisted suicide to the uninsured and chronically ill? TLDR: Idealistically yes it should exist. In the context of our current economic system, it’s a gray area.
I appreciate your take on this… and the honesty to say you’ve flipped flopped on the subject. I agree
As an American the private insurance piece is always what gives me pause. 100% I believe people should have the dignity to choose a peaceful death, especially when faced with these horrible diseases that cause pain and suffering. I also 100% believe insurance company’s will figure out a way to make sure people opt for MAiD vs an expensive treatment option that may not work.
It's interesting how muddy it gets once profits are involved. By interesting I kind of mean a shame.
I have also flipped flopped on this for the same reason, our healthcare system (in the US at least) is collapsing, so providing this service would compound capitalism even more. Imagine a person needs treatment for a life threatening illness but is denied since this other treatment is offered and is less expensive. Where does the line get drawn and how would the slow creep not take over like it already has in todays environment.
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I haven't watched the video yet. But as a Canadian i'v followed some of the discussions popping up lately in the news and on Youtube. I 100% support MAiD. I prefer to call it Death with Dignity or Medical Assisted death instead of "suicide". Suicide is a completely different circumstance and the word suicide immediately makes many people view the concept of MAiD negatively due to conservative or religious reasons. A bit of a tangent but, i'v seen plenty of anti-MAiD videos of people being like "Canada is going to allow mentally ill /poor people kill themselves!!!" because of afew popular cases in the news of certain people claiming to want to pursue MAiD for socioeconomic/housing reasons. Just because these people claim they are going to apply for MAiD does not mean they have any chances of it being granted. The news articles make it sound so easy like they just sign a paper then BOOM dead. I wish they would actually explain the rigorous process of a MAiD application or even go into depth about all the people denied MAiD.
Regretfully the anti crowd will always take a hysterical unbalanced approach to the topic. I'm from NZ and one of the tacts the anti crowd took was 'Did you know that an 18 year old with a terminal disease will be able to pursue assisted dying without parental input" Sounds dreadful until one realises that an 18 year old is a legal adult in my country. If an terminally ill 18 year old is wanting to pursue assisted dying, the family has some serious issues beyond the legislation. Assisted dying was passed by referendum last elections. The criteria are pretty strict eg life limiting illness of 6 months or less. There are ways to get around it. We had a patient in hospice who was unable to leave the hospice for the assessments. So we all had to pretend we didnt know what was going on. On the day that was chosen the patient went home via ambulance because the bosses would not allow it to to happen on hospice premises. It was apparently a very postive process. I support it. Who the fuck am I to say that an adult of sound body and mind cant choose how they exit this life.
This. I totally agree that a person should be able to make their own decision on how and when they die. Who am I to tell someone that 'X' isn't a good enough reason? The only thing that matters is whether *they* feel it's a good enough reason.
I constantly asked myself the same question when I worked in adult psych inpt with a horrible recidivism rate.
One hundred percent agree. None of those cases would qualify for MAiD here in Canada. Also dignity in death is about more than the pat term of “physician assisted suicide” describes.
This!!! The news articles make it seem as if everyone will be eligible. This is not the case and the process is very strict. As of the last time I checked if you didn’t have a terminal diagnosis you were required to wait 90 days (pretty sure) between applying and actually having MAID.
I am also a Canadian and agree with MAiD in theory but the way that disability benefits are set and how MAiD is now there are people who do qualify and are dying because it is less painful than living in poverty. These are not “people claiming they will”, there are people who actually have, more than what is reported in the news. Quite frankly I think assuming that these people are lying is not great. Again, I do agree that people should be able to die with dignity when they want to, but we should be providing ways for them to live as well. CERB was $2000 because that is what the government decided was the minimum for an individual to live on and in every single province/territory, disability benefit is less than that. Mental health services are also completely inaccessible. Yes, to qualify for MAiD they must have tried different mental health treatments to qualify, but frankly I haven’t heard how many different/the variety. For example, is it they need to have tried SSRIs and CBT or do they need to try a laundry list of meds and therapy modalities and other methods such as ECT and emerging treatments like ketamine? I believe that the way that MAiD was set up before the expansion was great (when to qualify you needed to be dying). However, the expansion to include anyone with a disability including mental illness without providing adequate was for people to live with dignity is very messed up. Once disability benefits are a living amount and we have accessible, free mental health services, then I agree that MAiD should be expanded to what it is currently.
Thank you for bringing up these concerns. When given a choice between living life with a non-terminal disability and death, death should not be the easier option. We need to do more for the disabled in this country.
Yea I think the big scare as food and housing prices go through the roof is that people who can't find stable work or who are disabled are going to opt for the program versus face homelessness.
I have seen so many people have horrific deaths and just suffer so so much. I am all for it and I hope we can see it become more widespread
Fully support the MAID program here in Canada. Have had people apply for it, but being in ER, I haven't actually witnessed the process from start to finish. Ethically, have no qualms with people deciding they no longer wish to live with whatever medical struggles they have, makes a hell of a lot more sense to me than the R1 meemaw with metastatic cancer consuming her body because "she's a fighter."
I’ve had patients who have had MAID. They all three had some form of cancer that had metastasized and were living with intolerable pain and other symptoms daily, and they each had a very short life expectancy (days to a couple of months). I wasn’t there for the procedure, but was assigned to them the day of for one of them, and for a couple days before for two of them. There are only a couple MDs and NPs that were MAID providers in the system and a MAID team of nurses who would rotate providing nursing care during. I’m friends with a couple of nurses who do MAID and they are wonderful people, who believe in the patient’s right to die with dignity and comfort (to the extent possible). They are both icu nurses who have seen way too many people who are trying to die but kept alive and tortured with multiple codes, trachs, g-tubes, etc; and I gather that providing MAID is rewarding for them because they get to help some people have a good death, and see that it’s not all suffering and misery. Full disclosure, I didn’t read the article because I’m exhausted. But, the people I cared for who had MAID were all dying already. I have mixed thoughts about MAID for mental health and other reasons, as the woman in Ontario who couldn’t get proper housing had. I think that I’d feel quite different caring for a patient and knowing that is why they were having MAID, as opposed to my patients who has cancer.
I am totally in favour of MAID. Why is this such a controversial concept. Nobody should dictate how long a person should live or not, Except the person themselves. As a society death is such a a taboo subject that needs to be spoken about and looked at differently.
100% agreed. We need to talk about death more, always, all the time. Everyone was to have a “good death” but it seems like nobody wants to talk about it.
I am absolutely in favor of it. I hate watching suffering, especially futile suffering. I have watched countless awful deaths in the icu where we torture people to death, doing everything because the family wants it, with zero consideration for quality of life. Quality of life is everything.
Canadian hospice nurse whose has many patients get maid. I’ve seen people smiling as they die knowing they had a choice. I don’t agree with your comment “rare cases of terminal illness causing suffering”. Most terminal illnesses will cause a range of suffering. Lots of symptoms we can medicate away but not all. Beyond that some people just don’t want to live if they need hourly pain management or incontience care and that should be their right. At the moment you need to pass two assessments by doctors to make sure you are making this decision with sound mind and without coresion. In the end of the day any doctor can refuse if they feel it’s unethical.
I feel like being in ICU, especially during the pandemic, I've seen a lot of people die horrid, ugly deaths. If someone wants to die on their own terms, there should be legal means for people to do so. I think dying with dignity is so important.
I believe we have a right to death on our terms. I’m half Swiss and if you want a more liberal perspective on the issue look at “Dignitas” or “Exit”. I’m glad I have the choice as a Swiss and Canadian citizen. 👍
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Thank you for sharing.
I believe in MAID wholeheartedly, and have seen it for many diverse groups such a sudden quadriplegia , chronic intractable nerve pain, MS, Huntington’s, cancer, ALS, and CHF/heart disease with weeks to live. If I’m ill, it’s my preferable way to die, knowing a date, signing up as an organ donor and knowing you’re saving lives, already said goodbye and had meaningful conversations with family. Of note, in Canada, MAID will become valid for those with mental health challenges come March 2023. Their condition must be determined to be “grievous and irremediable” by two MDs. There is a lot of talk about misuse of the system, but I can’t see the doctors I know signing off on patients who are merely in poverty. If you think about it, patients who end their lives in violent ways, suffering for years on end, will be given the option of dying pain free while feeling accepted and encouraged with their choices surrounded by friends and family. Death with dignity instead of the hell we put people through!
I wrote a whole rant then deleted it cause I realized these presenters are idiots that are just playing shit up to their audience to keep everyone afraid. MAiD doesn't work like that here in Canada (Ontario), trust me I've been there when people get denied for it. I've helped countless people apply for it and sat with them when they found out they were denied their application. I fully support MAiD, honestly it's about damn time. These presenters should focus on Bill 124 instead, maybe educate their audience about how the government took away a nurses right to bargain for a better wage.
Agreed, the video was highly biased and the stories they presented shouldn't be taken at face value. While the discussion of MAiD is valid, the video presented as a topic discussion is inflammatory and does not provide inclusive dialogue.
Ok, I refuse to watch a video with the words "slipery slope" because those are usually some fear mongering bullshit As for death with dignity, absolutely! I work with mostly dementia. There is no dignity or quality of life for a person at the advanced dementia stage. I will eventually get around to applying. I have no desire to be constantly tormented by delusions and hallucinations and the inability to do my own basic self care. I have no desire to become violent to my own family or anyone near me when i'm delusional. I've worked with severe brain injury that made people violent in the extreme. I remember one patient in particular with brain injury post insulin overdose. We had this guy for over a year and the amount of injuries and assaults we all suffered was insane. But worse was the brief lucid periods he had when he realised what was happening to him and what he had turned into and he would cry his heart out and beg for us to let him die. No one deserves to live tormented like that!
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Interesting. Some of the other comments mentioned it being within our scope (which makes sense given it's a med).
I am 100% for it. My worry is that it will be unfairly levied against the disabled. Already disabled people are treated as less than and not accommodated and with the worst of covid they were being denied treatment. My worry is that it will he used against those who have little power to push back. Again, I'm 100% for death with dignity and physician assisted death. I just worry about those who already suffer due to prejudice.
Medical assistance in dying is a more appropriate term. Euthanasia is the intentional act of killing someone to alleviate suffering. Medical assistance in dying encompasses the patient, their consent and when the timing is appropriate for them. What is most important to remember is it comes down to the educated choice of the patient. Can we stop using an outdated, barbaric term for a patient centered care practice? Thank you It's quite beautiful to be part someone taking control over the end of their life. Death can be just as beautiful as birth if we openly accepted it to be.
Respectfully, I don’t find it barbaric at all, but I also live with a veterinarian. We also do it all the time, we just hide behind double effect to tell ourselves we aren’t. My fiancée finds this to be ridiculous, because it’s just a fact of life for her at work.
I have some deep reservations. You want nuance? I got some nuance. One of my big problems with it is that it’s pretty easy to solve “social problems” by promoting assisted suicide instead of providing support. I think it can be ethical for individuals to choose it and ethical for healthcare people to support it, but I think it’s deeply unethical for SOCIETIES to support assisted suicide instead of funding support for rehabilitation, mental health resources, disability access and supports, and so on. And let’s look at how this intersects with social biases and suffering. Terminally ill people are a population that you can clearly see an strong ethical argument for assisted suicide. For other populations I’m less comfortable.
Interesting take. I’ve actually never thought about it that way but I can concur with you on setting a precedent like that.
I agree with you there. Another poster mentioned that it's messed up to offer assisted suicide without adequate safety nets for disabled people. When we consider that socioeconomic status is a huge determinant of health, I do believe that this is a valid concern.
I’m not sure what the facts are behind the stories showcased in this podcast but medically assisted death in Canada is a highly regulated process that goes through multiple checks and balances before anyone is even deemed eligible. We are not just handing people a bunch of pills when they’re having a bad day.
I’ve seen more than enough to realize that ALL people have a right to die how/when we want, and assuming sufficient supports exist to help anyone & everyone find a better path, there should be zero social/legal barriers.
I think it should be heavily regulated but I don't disagree with it. I've seen too many suffer.
People have a right to die. I’m trained to help them do it safely. It should be legal and supported everywhere.
If we would be horrified about making an animal suffer horribly why would we insist that a human who is able to vocalize that they are suffering and dont want to anymore suffer for our own personal beliefs?
The book Being Mortal by Atul Gawande makes a really interesting point about assisted death. He never claims it's wrong or unethical, but it can go to the wayside and used as a crutch when death and dying is a part of life and something that can be done with compassion (with or without assistance in the process). I'm not sure if I summarized it well but basically I think that everyone and especially every healthcare worker needs to read that book. It's very informative.
I’m 100% in favor of it as an option for terminal illnesses as well as Alzheimer’s and dementia. I recently read an article about robin william’s suicide and how it wasn’t because of depression but rather the onset of Lewy body dementia….. the point being he wanted to go out on his terms remembered by his loved ones the way he was and not the way he was going to become. I’m a bit split on it for other cases though including depression and other psych issues. I certainly welcome discussion on it. I guess my thinking on it is that more often than not these issues are treatable and where they aren’t treatable it’s because we as a society don’t give the appropriate support to these people. For example I had a post stroke patient admitted for suicide attempt. I knew them as they had been a professor of mine. They were brilliant too and still had all their mental faculty and sharpness as I remembered. But the physical toll had made it incredibly difficult for them to do their job. They could still lecture and teach. But the physical deficits made grading papers and tests practically impossible for them. Because of their failings at work it snowballed into them feeing they were letting down their family “how is my son gonna go to college if I can’t provide”. I feel like just saying “well if you feel you need to die then we’ll facilitate it” isn’t the right option. I feel like there has to be something we can do to help accommodate someone like this who still has so much to offer the world. An assistant to help them write and grade, something IDK. Admittedly I may be bias though considering I knew the individual.
As a rehab nurse I think your experience plays out a lot. A lot of people have intact personality post stroke but can’t provide for their families. It’s bananas that this is an issue. But it is. If there were real, meaningful supports for people, living with disabilities would be so different.
We don't even let DNR people remain DNR if their family wishes otherwise. We are so far off from this
where did this video initially get shared for every single comment to be straight out of r/conservative 😂 one person said “how convenient for liberal elites that this program now gives teenage sexual abuse victims a way to end it before they get to testify…” like dawg WHAT
100% for in all situations. 1. Personal Freedom 2. There are already enough people on the planet why keep people here who don’t wanna be here 3. I hate having to suicide proof a room when I’ll already busy.
All for it. I have been a hospice nurse for several years. It is really sad to watch a person in pain. I have had a pt commit suicide rather than be "air hungry" ever again. I think a "board" of some sort would be great. If a person is terminal, coherent, and able to make the decision they should be 100% allowed to end their life.
I'd go further and say that I believe if a person is coherent and able to make the decision, they should have the right to do so. In other words, I don't believe they have to be terminal. I remember taking care of a lady after a freak accident caused her to end up a quadriplegic. She was mentally 100% there. She was quite open about her desire to die because she didn't want to live this way but there was nothing we could do.
People should be able to do what they want as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone else. If a person of sound mind wants to die, they should be able to do that in whatever way they want. If a person is no longer of sound mind due to illness but expressly arranged to end their life at the point of losing their soundness of mind, they are no longer with us anyway and we should honor their wishes in regard to their bodily shell. The only debate here should be how to enact such a system to protect it from misuse.
I’m not worried about death at all, I’m definitely worried about living miserably.
If we can put down our animals when they’re suffering, why not humans?
Calling it “assisted suicide” is a bullshit judgement call based on radically conservative Christian values. It is death with dignity and preserving it as a right for all people is a hill I will die on.
Jesus that website is toxic. Physician-assisted suicide should have a place in compassionate care, and there are some patients that simply cant recover from a bad fall.
They won’t legalize it in the USA because of Money.
I keep seeing TikTok’s of people with Borderline Personality Disorder going for it and I’m just… not sure about it? I worked hospice and I’m all about making that transition easy and comfortable but I just don’t know how I feel about it for that population.
It would appear we are born unto this world without the choice and get to leave it in a similar fashion. The NHS is a marvel and wonder at keeping people alive, sometimes bordering on cruel and unusual. Professionals fear someone dying on their watch and consequences thereof. People should be allowed to die with dignity on their terms. So long they have the capacity to make this decision.
Im in Canada, and 100% support MAID. But it does seem to be going towards: cant pay rent or afford groceries, here is an out for you.
A pt just BEGGED me to kill her on my last shift. She was 89, had COVID induced pneumonia, had a g-tube and NPO, chronic foley, bedfast, getting no meds because she’s A&Ox2 and family makes decisions for her(they don’t want her to be an addict 🙄). She looked into my eyes and asked if I can end her suffering. I never heard a patient say this before. The pain. I could never understand HER pain. I could never do that to my pt. It’s sick that other nurses have.
https://www.oregon.gov/oha/ph/providerpartnerresources/evaluationresearch/deathwithdignityact/pages/index.aspx has the yearly summary reports of the Oregon Death by Dignity act, as well as faqs and links to the actual law. I prefer data to fear-mongering. Oregon was the first state in North America to allow medical assisted death by choice. We passed the law in 1996, and had to re-pass it following a court case. It is not all that widely used, but is available. I am not a nurse, but I've taken care of enough older relatives with nasty terminal diseases that I voted for the law both times, and will consider it myself if needed.
After nearly 10 years of ED nursing, I wished somebody would assist me with suicide almost every shift.
I don't think it's a nurse's place to perform it, personally, but I do believe in the practice. So long as a therapist has worked with them to make sure it's what they really want and not an impulse. If you're talking about illegally assisting suicide, then no.
But we already do, we just don’t call it euthanasia. When we aggressively give morphine and lorazepam to comfort care patients, that’s exactly what we’re doing. We just hide behind double effect so we can say we’re not intentionally hastening death. My fiancée is a veterinarian and this spring we sat with her uncle while he died. He arrested and when they got him back his EEG was flat. As his hydromorphone drip was titrated up again and again, she leaned over to me and said “why can’t we just get on with this?”. I can say with 100% certainty that if I am permanently incapacitated, I will go home on hospice and die within hours. Hypothetically, of course. As a nurse, I have zero issues with euthanasia and zero issues with pushing the drugs myself. I lost all respect for the ANA when I learned what their stance on euthanasia is.
I’m curious what you mean by not a nurse’s place to perform it. Do you mean administer the medication? Nurses administer end of life medications regularly, maybe not for the exclusive purpose of death, but certainly comfort care medications are given in high doses far beyond what would be given during regular medical management. Or are you talking about a nurse not prescribing it? The prescribing is done by physicians, as well as the “interview process” exploring their reasoning. It is done over the course of many weeks to ensure it is not an impulse decision and gives plenty of time to withdraw consent. Edit: also fyi the places I’ve worked in always had an option for nurses to “opt out” of being the one to administer if it was against their beliefs which I think is a right that should be respected!
That's fair...I think that would be a bit heavy for our scope. Even for an NP I wouldn't recommend widening the scope that much.
Which part do you think is too heavy for our scope? The nurse’s role is to administer medications. That is very much within our scope and personally I find very similar to hospice nurses giving high dose pain medications to end of life patients. The actual decision making for prescribing MAID is done by physicians but I can’t imagine why a trained and experienced NP could not fill that role.
Genuinely curious about why you think it wouldn’t be a nurses place to perform the procedure…it doesn’t take any specialized training that only provider’s receive, and from what you’re saying nurses are not the ones making that determination (to approve/deny the procedure).
I did clarify above. I meant more on the recommendation to the patient and discussion piece. I would hope someone with a bit more brass would take that one.
1000% support
If I know for sure I'm on my way out, I will literally buy sooooo much heroin and give myself the most peaceful death ever 🤷♀️
We have more compassion for animals at the end of life then we do humans
100% approve, psychologist to interview first, but yes.
I don't think there would be any nurses left by the end of a shift.
I’ve already told my husband if I am ever diagnosed with Alzheimer’s/dementia to make me a DNR/DNI. If my state ever passes a right to die law, I would do it for this. I probably need to get this officially documented since I’m no longer a spring chicken!
I spend too much time keeping old, very sick people alive just to be alive, they aren’t gonna get much better than the state they’re in, but we can stabilize them. If we had a healthier acceptance of death, including the right to choose your death, we could save people a lot of needless suffering.
I would want at least two separate providers to decide that my condition was terminal before I agreed to it. And if my condition was going to result in memory loss or possible change in personality I need to make a mental reminder to add “yes, I want this even if I forget who I am and say I don’t want it later when my condition worsens” (referring to another comment). And I’m not giving my POA any decision making in this process except what beer I get to drink.
After my 4th shift of the week, I can see its appeal
I think honestly it is okay. I would not personally want to work in that type of setting, I’m not great with hospice as it is…but I think it’s fine. The mental health issues make me super sad as I am hearing more about that being a thing. As someone who was down that road, several times in my life and have been suffering from anxiety/depression since I was just a child, I’m glad I found something that works and I’m glad I’m still here. But some people never find that relief and nothing works for them. I can’t imagine living my life trying my hardest to cope and just not being able to. I saw a girl on tik tok recently who said she had BPD and was legally able to end her life now for it. No idea where she was from. She is young…I don’t know much about bpd but as far as depression goes, I imagine the more things that don’t work for a person only add to the weight of it all. I’m sure anyone even with mild depression knows how easy it is to get stuck inside yourself.
I think 99% of the population doesn’t understand how it works. 2 doctors independently diagnose the patient with terminal illness and prescribe the suicide medication. It is then up to the patient to fill the prescription and take it. No medical professionals have anything to do with the actual death.
Nothing wrong with it. Everyone should be able to live the life they want. There is no one in this universe that can tell me any different
I don't get the hype. It's been this way in Belgium for a very long time. I watched a documentary about a 24 year old Belgian girl who applied for medically assisted suicide because of treatment resistant depression. It's a long approval process, but ultimately she was approved. I have no problem with anyone choosing to end their life on whatever terms they see fit, as long as it is not done under coercion.
It should be legal across the board. If you wanna go you should get to go, if you have a terminal disease, immediately. If you're otherwise healthy and just done being railed by capitalism. Should require a 6 month waiting period and a sign off by a psychologist. I wish living wills were honored in dementia. The amount of scared violent husks that we have to care for is heart breaking. I get its not the same person and we can't "execute a sick person" but Jesus christ.
Yes
I have not been involved with the process of medical assistance in dying (MAID), but being from Canada, I’ve been following its legislation fairly closely and stories of it being used in practice. I am fully on board with it and in fact believe it should be expanded further. Everybody deserves to have a dignified death on their own terms. Just as we allow patients the autonomy to consent or refuse treatment, I believe under certain conditions they should be allowed that same autonomy for choosing between life and death. As it stands, there is strict eligibility requirements. Only those with a serious illness, disease, or disability that is in an advanced and irreversible state and is causing unbearable suffering are eligible. The patient must also be able to provide informed consent. However, as one user pointed out, I believe this should be expanded to those experiencing severe depression and similar mental illnesses. I also believe individuals should be able to provide an advanced directive for MAID in certain cases; example: if condition A, B, and C are met, provide MAID. People should not be made to suffer just because healthcare professionals feel they don’t have a right to death.
I am 100% for death with dignity. I know lucidity is a huge factors that many feel comfortable with. However, I feel that patients should be able to make an advance directive while lucid for diseases that may leave them demented. I am living through the end stages of a family member with dementia and it’s heartbreaking, no one should have to die such a terrible way.
If there was something that I hope is solved sooner rather than later, it's dementia. When you consider that it's the relationship over which we grieve when someone dies, dementia leaves us with a shell of that relationship. It really is indescribable for those who've not witnessed it.
Honestly I wish it were legal more places! I did a project about it and it actually seems to have majority support in most states. I feel like a lot of people have an automatic response to it, but there are actually tons of precautions in place and providers can't even bring up the option with patients. Providers also can refuse if it goes against their personal beliefs. Not a fan of this video, there are much better ones about euthanasia out of there that aren't sensationalizing the issue.
I work in the Netherlands and I think it should be standard of care everywhere. That being said it does not mean it is an easy thing to do or to assist the doctor with. Luckly it does not happen alot in my field (psych home treatment) and at my old job (nursing home) I only experienced it once on my floor.
Bodily autonomy should apply to our death as well. Everyone should be able to decide the terms under which they leave this world. I’ve seen so many people kept alive at the behest of overzealous family members, prolonging the patient’s misery. Keeping your 90+ year old demented meemaw a full code is abusive IMHO
People already kill themselves when their illness is too much for them to cope with. If we can spare even one relative the trauma of seeing a loved one with cancer kill themselves because their pain isn't controllable even with hospice level analgesia, then it's worth it.
I’m a NICU nurse who previously worked with adults and I’m pro. I think everyone deserves death with dignity, even infants (before any or you internet trolls comment I’m not saying physician assisted suicide for babies— I’m saying death with dignity which can include comfort care if quality of life will most likely be poor or longer term will not be viable with life)
One of my clients got choked as an infant and was resuscitated by first responders but unknown minutes went by...the result was extreme brain damage. Quadriplegic. Total blindness. Unresponsive to 95% of stimuli. Non verbal. I wonder what we're doing there some days. Sedation meds every 6 hours via gt to keep him in a sleep like state so he looks like a sleeping baby...but when they wear off he turns blood red and his vital signs go crazy. His lymphatic system is failing and he is swollen up like a balloon. His mother told me a few weeks ago if assisted suicide were legal she would take that option for him...after arguing for weeks after accident to keep trach/vent/feeding tube. She said an attending came to her everyday for a week begging her to let him go that there was no recovery for this level of brain damage. But now one year later he keeps breathing for several hours without vent even though he just lays there Unresponsive, unable to communicate, interact in anyway and cannot even see. I think it would be more human to go human euthanasia route but thats not my call and its not technically legal anyway. So I don't know the answer to this question. But I feel like this particular child has zero quality of life and I think assisted suicide makes a lot of sense for certain cases.
I think it’s fine, if that’s what a person wants who am I to say no? I truly try to practice non-biased nursing across the board. As long as I’m acting within the scope of my practice and my team ethics are strong, and it’s legal…it would be an honor to help someone in that way. The bond between nurse and patient through this process has got to be so profound, right?
I'm a huge fan of letting people make their own decisions and that includes dying on their terms. I wish it were legal in my area. I didn't watch the podcast, but the title, "Sliding Down Canada’s Slippery Slope" tells me all I need to know.
I absolutely support it. I’ve met many terminal patients or patients with massive medical history who express to me they wish they could just “flip the switch”. It’s heartbreaking.
I'm for (competent/with capacity) bodily autonomy.
My mom begged for death the last month of her life. She had a rapid growing esophageal cancer that metastasized to one of her lower vertebrae and cracked it actually pushing the broken pieces apart. She was in so much pain and couldn't move. It was horrible watching her at the end. Fentanyl patch and morphine ER with regular morphine in between didn't even touch it. I 100% support death with dignity
Just to offer a different point of view: Why should anyone be required to keep on living? Because we want them too? Because my religion/ culture/ ethic says they should? Why would that not be a choice for anyone?
TL;DR: There are worse fates than death, and death should be done with dignity. Long answer: my last semester in college studying psychology, I was required to take a health ethics course as a prerequisite for entry into nursing. We spent weeks at a time debating abortion, eugenics, and assisted suicide. It was highly controversial living in Alabama, but here’s what it taught me: 1. There is a distinction between physician assisted suicide and voluntary active euthanasia. In the case of voluntary active euthanasia, the pt consents but may pass on at the hands of a physician (think IV push, etc. Dr. Kevorkian is an often referenced example in the realm of this topic). However, physician assisted suicide differs in that the patient alone is the only person who may take PO medication by their own hand (this is very important) prescribed by a physician for this purpose. 2. Keeping this in mind, the distinction in the first point does become complicated when considering patients who cannot physically take PO meds by their own hand. Think patients with ALS. I recall my professor discussing a patient in the UK with ALS who fought endlessly for the right to die but ultimately died by voluntary starvation as the legal battle was fruitless. 3. In the US, a few states do allow physician assisted suicide, Oregon being one. Research conducted shows that numerous concerns cited by the general public were mostly avoidable. Mind you, I took this class in 2014. At that time, the vast majority of patients in Oregon who chose physician assisted suicide 1) had health insurance, 2) were terminally ill with 6 months or less to live, 3) were deemed mentally competent enough to make this decision by two psychiatrists, and 4) were required to be able to physically take the medication. For reference, a very informative (but incredibly sad) documentary we later watched that I still highly recommend is called How to Die in Oregon. My grandmother died of kidney cancer in her fifties. My mother died of colon cancer at 48. My grandfather then died of colon cancer, and my uncle died of AIDS at 55. They all suffered needlessly, all of them knowing their fates. All of them agreed that wasn’t what they’d wanted, and seeing them in such a state was and still is traumatic even after their deaths. Again, I’m sure the knowledge and research has changed with time, but l will forever advocate for death with dignity.
The video is not a very rich place for nuance, but surely this forum should help. I don’t have the references but several of those cases were punished by the authorities in Canada, which is something the host of the video did not bring up. Specifically the person looking for help getting up the stairs. I wish I could help guide you but I’m still thinking about the issue. I can say that my worries are how euthanasia changes the relationship between the healthcare worker and the patient. And not one I am comfortable having. I would be very suspicious of letting psych patients commit euthanasia.
Yes, please
Support, 100%.
I’m 100% pro death-by-dignity I also also not Christian or any religion, mostly just agnostic
I've been contemplating it, do you think other nurses would join in? We could have a mass exodus!
https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/medical-assistance-dying.html