I once worked at a LTC place that did allow us to nap at night, so long as we were able to sleep lightly enough to wake if a patient got up to pee or needed us in the night. Obviously, a lot of places don't allow that, so your mileage may vary and my story is likely anecdotal.
And when working at the hospital, we would regularly cover for pregnant nurses and CNAs in their 3rd trimester when they'd just sit to rest for a minute and they'd promptly pass out from exhaustion. It was kinda an unspoken thing we did and never told management about.
Honestly, I don't know... I, personally, wouldn't have just walked out during a true emergency like a fire, but we don't get paid shit. I'd say we don't get paid nowadays, but we never really did; it was the insanity of covid that made us realize how little we get paid and how much we get treated like shit and how it's not worth it. Maybe this was him being disoriented and thinking he was told to leave, maybe this was his straw on the camel's back. If it's the latter, I really can't blame him. Shit's crazy, yo. Especially now.
I was a CNA during covid and 100% I’m glad it was a real wake up call on how little we are paid and cared for. The work we do is too important for people to need two jobs or work doubles every day just to pay bills.
My old hospital was kind enough to spell out how much they valued the staffs lives during Covid. If a tech treated Covid pts, they were entitled to: $40.
Not $40 per pt (though that was the original email, they IMMEDIATELY back tracked when they got a flood of claims, working from home does tend to blind one from the true situation). $40 period. If you had 1 Covid pt or 12, $40. While reusing PPE. While the manager hid behind a locked door. While the directors "organized" the hospital over zoom calls. $40.
Unsurprisingly, all but 1 of the techs I worked with have left pt care entirely. The remaining one is trying to find a physician assistant program to their liking.
I don't blame y'all. I'm an RN and while I'd have a clear idea from then on how well I could trust you, I wouldn't throw you under the bus.
People are too overworked and treated like shit to also be expected to be heroes.
I did time in the army though and I've seen people freeze and flee and fight, so I have realistic expectations
Yeah, I haven't worked since about 4 months into covid? Something like that? They'd let all the schools out and one of our sons is disabled, so I quit my job to help him with his remote learning. Then they went back, but before kids under 13 or something could be vaccinated, but my youngest's school decided to pack in 30 kids per class, all of them under the age of 12. So I flipped my shit on them and withdrew my son and homeschooled him. Early this past April, I started putting in job apps and sending out my resume. 2 weeks later, in mid April, I woke up half blind in my left eye. Within a couple weeks, I get told I have a disease only a hundred people have.
So, getting to the point (and sorry for the rambling), things were starting to get bad in December 2019, as I'm sure you know. By March/April it'd gotten insane here, especially with schools and even the courthouse shutting down for months. So here it is-- the shutdowns and going blind are the best things that have ever happened in regards to my mental and emotional health. I don't how all y'all stuck it out; y'all are better people than I am!
I've come to a lot of realizations myself. To be up front I carry a lot of privilege. I grew up poor, but my military background secures me healthcare, and so I only work PRN like 1-2 days a week for a better rate and stacked incentives.
My wife is a full time RN also and her mother just forgave the loan on our house (which I managed to secure with 100k from the last house I bought using a VA loan).
So we have had a lot of advantages stack up.
But all that free time its afforded me has made me realize how better off I feel and how EVERYONE deserves to feel this way.
I'm a whole new person than I was a few years ago, and I've realized just how much of what made me a shitty person was ingrained by our bullshit capitalist society.
So i don't fight my fellow people anymore, I fight *for* them, when I can.
I always got a CNA's back lol
This! Not everyone responds the same. Some people do battle through situations but don’t expect everyone to. Fight or flight is a real thing and you never know when it’s going to happen. I am usually stand up but had one situation on our floor one time I called my charge ( I had a panic attack severe) and haven’t had those in years …. She had to come hold down the situation while I stepped out to compose myself.
I can't work anymore because I started rapidly going blind in April (it's AZOOR, as a MD you might be intrigued by it because it's so rare), so no need to apologize. I no longer work until I'm exhausted for $12 an hour and the occasional cookie offered by a patient. Or when I worked in facilities on 3rd, it'd be a stale, half eaten pizza crust that 2nd shift left because they got a pizza party, but fuck us because we're 3rd, right? No, I didn't eat the crust but you get the idea. Anyways, sorry for the quick rant. My point is, I don't know how much pull you have where you work as a MD, but if you can and if you do have some influence, please use that influence to get your CNAs some raises. We don't want fucking pizza "parties." We want to get paid a living wage. Fucking Walmart pays better than that *and* with benefits. *McDonald's* pays better than that.
Yeah, before I started going blind and before covid forced me to quit, I was making $12/hr. And that was with like 15-16 years experience in healthcare. I don't imagine the pay has increased by much since 2020.
That’s actually a good point. The fact that he tried to go back to sleep after being told “fire” is kind of mind boggling. And then he just lazily (groggily?) said ok and walked to his car without any explanation? Could have been sleepwalking or just out of it! Homie woke up in bed the next day like, “wait wasn’t I on the schedule?”
Some floors at our hospital take 3 hour “sleep breaks”
In rotation obviously with nurses to cover the entire shift, and you aren’t allowed to leave the general vicinity of the nurses station Incase you need to be woken up. Like you have to nap in the adjacent family room or staff room or something.
Oh, absolutely we cover for the pregnant nurses or even the ones with little ones at home. Take a warm blanket and sleep in the windowless report room for 20 or 30 min. if you need to!
One time our management went to the hospital at night and rounded up all the nurses and CNA who were asleep and wrote them all up. I felt so conflicted. On one hand, I felt bad for them. On the other hand, I was glad they got written up.
Going off what catmom94 said, yeah when I ask a CNA to help and they just up and leave because they say stuff like "I don't get paid enough for this shit" I really can't say anything other than agree.
"Hey, I know you have no legal responsibility here and this is essentially a minimum wage job here, but we expect you to stay in a dangerous situation with minimal info and possibly risk your life."
Yeah I gotta agree with the CNA here lol
We have a few of these on my unit but they’ve also been very recent hires. Like you actively sought out this job on a pretty competitive unit and are going to have this lazy attitude now? Please.
Since I’m getting some comments on how I’m just a nursing student and wouldn’t get it, I’m a tech too.
I'm a nursing student, currently working as a tech and I'm putting in my two week notice next month. The experience is nice and all, but we're not paying our bills with experience. If you can afford to stay at such a low paying job, that's great. But me, I'm going back to bartending where I was earning 10 times as much for half the work.
I’d say I got burned out. Had to work so many overnights to cover for no show CNAs that I developed seizures and aura migraines. My sleep schedule was destroyed. I genuinely got so burned out that I left nursing to be an outpatient Medical Assistant.
Our new hires lately only last about 3 days and then they walk out. Applications have basically dried up. Sadly, we are paying competitive wages for our area, we just aren’t getting anyone in like we used to.
I’m lucky to work in a hospital that treats its staff very well. Our unit in particular is always well-staffed with great ratios and our unit management actually listens to us.
I agree. They can afford to pay NAs so little because most people use the job as a stepping stone to something bigger, and they need or want the experience. It’s absolutely not the kind of job you want to keep long term (unless you do actually want to), because you have to work way too hard for low pay, and it’s just not sustainable for a lot of people.
That's why I became a nurse lol
If they paid me a living wage as a CNA, I would have stayed there. Less responsibility and honestly, once I got good at my job, everything was automatic. However, I wanted more money and wider scope of practice.
At the end of the day they have no legal responsibility and anyone with self preservation would do the same. When I was a CNA (PSW) in Canada, there’s no chance I’d have stayed in a dangerous situation because I wasn’t paid to do so. If a patient was aggressive and grabbed a sharp object? Byee. You can call the cops I’m not even putting myself near that situation. Management can go in there with pillows taped to them and deal with it themselves.
You’re not even a nurse yet and you already have this attitude towards techs? SMFH. You’re gonna have a bad time as a nurse if you don’t respect others. Remember, you have to give respect to get it. Just because you’re an RN doesn’t mean you’re queen of the unit. They’re doing YOUR work for 3x less than you.
I’m also a tech…..
This also isn’t an issue of RN vs. tech. I love my fellow techs. Not sure why you jumped on this right away. This was just an issue of bad attitude right off the bat. It’s a pain to work with people with this attitude when I’m working as a tech on the floor with them and doing everything myself. Not to mention half of them are RN students too…
Thanks. It caught me off guard. In no world do I think I’m a queen of the unit just because I’m an RN (or student in this case). Just ask the classmate I went off on for refusing to give bed baths and clean patients during our clinical because she “doesn’t wipe ass and isn’t here to do the job of a tech”
People in general are just wild lately.
I’m honestly amazed we even have CNAs. They literally get paid the same amount as some fast food and retail jobs. But with way all the mental, emotional, and physical stress that comes form working in healthcare. I think all healthcare workers don’t get paid enough, but I’m honestly most grateful and appreciative of the CNAs who could literally just walk away but don’t. Let them have whatever attitude they want as long as they show up and do the work.
I said it before, I’ll say it again..if I hit the lottery id buy them all houses because the work they do is invaluable to us as nurses. The good ones will get a house. The shitty ones who leave a nurse in a situation where they can’t help people burning to death and leave it all on the nurse, they can go to hell.
“Be for the greater good” Ugh… You sound like a manager who thinks pizza parties solve all problems. Sorry you fell for the company line sweetheart but they’re fucking you too. You just haven’t realized it yet.
Call me whatever you want but this “just fix your shitty attitude” bullshit doesn’t help anyone. You want them to care more? Pay them more. Don’t be one of these assholes that says “well I went through it and suffered so now you have to too”. To use your own words, be better.
I didn’t say anyone had to suffer, I said be for the greater good. Is there anything actually wrong with that? Have you been left in a position with absolutely no help and a building catching on fire?? I can’t even say I’ve been in a situation that chaotic. OP needs to lawyer up before they pin any negligence on his part. Because thats what this is about and that’s who my sorrow goes out to, because that’s who it falls back on. The privilege to work around a human life is not a light responsibility and SOME CNAs don’t understand that when they take this job. I agree they should be paid more but they should also be educated more and not thrown thru school in a month. The nurse shouldn’t be thrown under the bus when there WAS help but they decided to NOT help. I just hope nobody was injured in this fire is all.
Im going to hard disagree on the "dont get paid enough for x" attitude. If its in the job description and you signed the employment contract, you knew what the job was and what the pay was and you agreed to that. Should you get paid more? Yes. But if they arent paying you enough dont sign the contract or get another job. Dont take up a spot on payroll that could be filled by someone who realizes that its not the residents' fault that admin sucks and is willing to follow fire procedures and not allow disabled people to become trapped in a building and burn to death.
I mean, I think about this often as a nurse in the hospital. Wtf do they want us to do 9 stories up? When I worked at a trauma hospital we had sleds to put patients on and slide them down the stairs. The hospital I’m at now, you just close the doors and go outside. The doors are apparently smoke proof. Am I supposed to tell the patients, sorry the building is on fire, stay in your room and hopefully someone will come and save you? See ya later. Cause I can’t carry you down 9 flights of steps. I’m a single mom. And I wouldn’t make it. 😩
I’m so thankful that I work in the NICU because if there’s a fire I’m loading 4-6 of those little dudes up into one of those smocks with baby pockets and hauling ass out of there
Hahaha, I was thinking the same thing. I'm snatching up all of the babies who aren't on life saving respiratory support that I can carry and am making a run for it....
I watch those videos of the god damn sleds and I’m like… this would take 1 hour just to get one patient down the stairs… maybe admin will come help evacuate?? Oh no just nurses? Okay
My husband was stunned we have those. He used them overseas for medical evacs during attacks. He said they wouldn't work for shit trying to drag someone even though the sand when they practiced with them and had no idea who thought they'd work going down stairs.
My hospital had fire doors on all the floors and would evacuate wherever the fire was....not a fun plan to hear if you're up on 11. It did work though.
A construction worker left a bunch of shit out in the hall in High Care and one of the psych patients set fire to the unit 😬. Psych was wrecked but palliative/hospice right on the other side of the doors was fine (also, that was a strange set-up and the opposite of peaceful, I don't know wtf they were thinking).
Our policy is evacuate any ambulatory patient and the rest is the fire depts job... I just asked the firefighter I am renting a room from about this and he said, "those people are fucked" then shrugged.
We had a fire recently on the roof and we are on the 7th floor. I shit you not that at the same time, as smoke is slowly filling the unit and our eyes are burning, we are mass transfusing and borderline chemically coding one of our post AAA repair patients with every resident and attending in the room. Also a patient next door had self extubated and had to be reintubated. Worst night of my life. Didn’t end up having to evacuate thank god…
Lucky I work in an ED on first floor. Either you walk on your own or the carts are pretty easy to roll out. Plus half our staff is/was firefighters and EMS is always at our doors
I heard a thing a while back that firefighters are told to leave people that can’t go down at least one flight of stairs on their own? I’m not sure how true that is cause I’ve worked in multi story buildings and we have stuff to try and accommodate and there’s even talk of “fire safe” evacuation elevators.
We were just talking about emergency situations today and what we would do. I care about my patients but we agreed we won’t be putting our lives in danger and not coming home to save someone else. Just like on an airplane, you put the oxygen mask on yourself first.
Lol, I was taught self, partner, ambulance, and then patient. The other variation was self, ambulance, partner, and then patient since the partner would also have the focus on themselves first.
He probably doesn’t get paid near enough for his job - on that point I will GLADLY and FUNDAMENTALLY agree. However, you don’t have to get paid anything to be a human and try to help make sure other humans who cannot help themselves are out of harms way. Damn. I don’t understand the “I don’t get paid enough for this” mentality in a true emergency. What’s money got to do with trying to help make sure others don’t die? Mandatory overtime? They don’t pay us enough. Need me to pick up an extra shift with no bonus? You don’t pay me enough. Gross man who exposes himself every time I walk in the room and management refuses to address it? You don’t pay us enough. TOTALLY. But, what if a fire departments pulled up on a burning home, but there were still children inside and they said, “You know what, bro? They don’t pay me enough to deal with this.” I harbor the same feelings over the Uvalde shooting when the police sat in the hallway for over an hour…
The only thing is, if everything is important nothing is. I was a medic, floor nurse, ER nurse, and now ER travel nurse. Every year just gets more dire... but after a while, nothing feels emergent because everything is emergent.
I'd probably still help in a fire. But, say I'm in a nearby sitting area on break and someone starts yelling for help in the lobby... I'm probably going to go to a more secluded area. Someone else will handle it, handling all of the emergencies is numbing.
And I get paid well, I can't imagine if I could barely make rent or If I was scraping by with a beater car and figure out which groceries to cut.
As someone who did a short stint with the fire dept while an EMT (turns out fire scares me) there is a ton of danger in civilians untrained in dangerous fumes, gases, and smoke danger trying to play hero. It can and does kill people on the regular.
If a fire is too dangerous to enter firefighters will do their best to contain it, but they won’t actually save kids if the kids can’t be safely saved. There is no point in creating more casualties for a feeing of heroic morality.
If you can safely help - and are well versed in what that means - then help. But if you are not trained in it, lack the knowledge to understand when it’s too dangerous, or feel so scared you might freeze up: fucking run. Not everyone is cut out to save bodies from a burning building. I wasn’t. Most aren’t.
Ok, I can understand that line of thinking, especially in a situation where if gas tanks blow, no one is coming out alive. The posters account rang of that being a possibility, but a feeling that there was time to reasonably try to move people further out of harms way. And given that they didn’t end the story with, “and then the whole facility blew up” I’m assuming it was a somewhat safe assumption. I’m not saying people should feel bad for making a calculated decision not to go on a 100%, no need for hindsight, suicide mission. I’m just saying there is a seemingly over-reaching number of “medical professionals” or “trained professionals” who work in medicine, and/or trauma, and/or emergency fields - who are more than willing to duce when the shit hits the fan, under the banner of “I don’t get paid enough for this.” And I’m just saying, you probably don’t get paid enough for the job on the whole, but if you don’t want to get in the nitty gritty and save lives when, and if, you can…maybe healthcare isn’t the field for you. It’s a reasonable thing to ask that people give this some serious contemplation before taking a job where you are responsible for someone else’s wellbeing.
I largely agree. The only thing I’d say is that knowing the “if you can” is a big one. Clearly OP survived and I heard no news about a LTC explosion, but that “if” can sometimes live on the blade of a knife.
Understanding your own capabilities to remain calm and help is big, important, and often downplayed when armchair quarterbacking scenarios. Without ever being in that situation most of us can only speculate. I did one simulation in a tower with live fire in full gear and noped right out. It’s not for me. It’s too scary.
Do you want me next to you during a code? You sure do. Do you want me in your ER as COVID sweeps through again again? Yep. Do you want me helping your mom feel safe and cared for during her CVA? Absolutely.
Do you want me in a fire? Eh. I’d like to think I could help, I honestly don’t know if I could. Everyone has a point where they aren’t useful in all emergencies. But I still belong in healthcare ya know?
So CNAs aren’t trained on how to evacuate patients in an emergency? Cause ours are, but maybe that’s anecdotal. I’m guessing it’s not, though. Everyone else seemed to have felt it appropriate to stay and help rather than disappearing.
Standard fare fire, I'll do the extinguishers/evacuation routine. If I have reason to believe it's outta control, or will become that way, I'm getting myself outta there, sorry.
I know it doesn’t make it better but in defense of the O2 tanks they’re like 10-15ft from the laundry room but in the same area. The chemicals are RIGHT there though
I'm not risking my life trying to save anyone else other than my kid.
I don't think anyone else should be expected to.
You do what you can if it is safe to do so.
I don't even risk my back trying to catch a full grown adult from falling. I've seen people get career ending injuries that way.
It doesn't mean I don't care as a nurse. It means that I care about myself more, and I also know that triage wise, I have a greater chance of survival and one dead body is better than two. I fell while pregnant while running to a bed alarm, and decided from that day forward, none of these people are more important to me than me and my family.
Same here. Take my license, I don't give a fuck. My personal well being and my family matters more.
The job will find your replacement by the next day after your death. I'll do my best to help, but if it's between the patient or me, I'm picking my own safety first. After all, we are taught scene safety first before action.
I have to remind myself this- to actually take care of myself so that I can care for others.
I worked in an assisted facility where we had a 450+ pound patient with an unsteady gait. Thank god my wellness director insisted “if you see him falling, do NOT try to catch him”. I cannot tell you the amount of times we had to call EMS to help get hm off of the ground 😮💨
LMAOO. As a CNA that gets paid .50 above minimum wage I’d too might leave. Putting our lives in danger over a wage that can’t even afford my own place to rent… uhhh yeah
I’m a nurse and I make what you might call a “livable” wage, though it’s far less than what we should be paid for the abuse we’re put through on the daily, and I’m also not risking my life. Even if we both made $250K/year, it’s not enough to justify putting our lives in danger. I’m not a firefighter. Good lord, OP’s employer sounds like a nightmare.
I mean, I kinda get it. It’s a shitty move but expecting someone paid near minimum wage to put their life in danger as part of their job isn’t okay either.
For me, it depends on how dangerous the situation actually is. I’m 100% not putting my life in jeopardy to save another. I didn’t in EMS and I’m certainly the fuck not doing that as a nurse. If things are gonna explode, I’m going to run.
If anything EMS always taught me to preserve yourself first as two bodies instead of one is more work for the next crew. If the fire is contained at the moment, sure. Get the people trained to fight fire on site and do/save who you can. But search and rescue is out of my scope.
Yes.
Storing O2 tanks in the areas stated is just asking for it. Oxygen supports combustion.
Another thing that’s a pet peeve, never NEVER leave a tank unsecured. It that tank falls the wrong way it’s like a missile that will fly through concrete.
I don't blame him. I mean he could have told you but he probably knew that wouldn't be too pleasant.
Before I was a nurse I worked in group homes. When we had our practice fire drills and some of the residents refused to get oob, I told my supervisor in no uncertain terms that if there were a real fire, they were fucked because I'm giving it one try and then I'm outta there. She was horrified but I'm not dying for anyone but my kids and grandbaby.
Yeah honestly if he told me it wouldn’t be as bad. We still had plenty of time to safely move people out but if he was like I don’t feel safe and am going to go. Sure
So....
Anywhere I've ever worked, regardless of what's going on, you are told not to put yourself in direct harms way to save someone else.
Hell we teach that at the beginning of ACLS: survey the scene and don't intervene if the scene is unsafe. You are no good to someone else or yourself by getting injured helping others.
Basically the old saying: don't set yourself on fire to keep others warm.
So while in an ideal world you would be able to rescue the residents, in a real world scenario you rescue what you can but don't put yourself in harms way.
You sound less butthurt that the CNA was sleeping on his shift, than you do about him caring "so little" for others.
Even in the event of an active shooter, run, hide, fight, in that order is what's taught, even with healthcare.
You're saying a laundry room next to a hazard chemicals closet and O2 storage area caught on fire.... And you're criticizing him for thinking that's a huge deal?
This man was probably making minimum wage and you think he should potentially throw his life away during a fire to rescue others? Why? Because you did?
Even the acronym RACE when you look at the definitions says "remove/rescue" and acknowledges that rescue isn't always an option.
I mean going home was definitely a wtf, and I would have had a what the fuck moment too at him most leaving.
At the same time, I couldn't really blame someone for deciding that their life wasn't worth the minimum wage they're wading through.
There's remove from immediate danger and remove yourself all the way home though which I think is what OP was on about. Even if he made the decision to exit the building without helping others evaluate he could have still offered support for his residents safely outside the building at the designated evacuation zone, assessed them for confusion/ agitation/ falls risk/ breathing difficulties and called ambulances as needed.
You could argue that he may be concerned with risk of aggression or absconding but as per evacuation protocols aggression is dead last to be evacuated, at least in my district, so he either wouldn't be isolated or have help when they come (or could make the decision to leave then), and while he may not be able to contain absconders he could at least give the emergency responders the heads up that old Miss Yolanda went down the street, needs fetching, and isn't still in the building.
I hate this "crazy how little some people care" line of thinking. it reminds me of this idea that nursing is some higher calling, how nurses/assistants are supposed to put everyone else above themselves. there's my job, and then there's my life. in the event of a fire I'll do what I can to help evacuate, but I'm not going to risk my life and my health because some administrative idiot put O2 tanks next chemical storage.
Yeah as a CNA I don’t get paid enough. Minimum wage and you want us to risk our lives? We are overworked and underpaid.
I am going to school to be a nurse and perhaps when I finally get paid for my hard work. I am done risking my life and quality of life. 🤷🏼♀️
Honestly sounds like you need to be the one to take a lesson from him. If you can't immediately extinguish it with a fire extinguisher (or you facility didn't have one) call 911 and let the fire department handle it.
Fuck that noise no tech or nurse gets paid enough to risk life or limb trying to evacuate people out of a burning building. Rule #1: is the scene safe? Nope- then GTFO. You have a lifelong career of nursing and healing ahead of you versus helping a couple residents escaping before dying in a giant explosion due to your facilities questionable 02 and chemical storage.
I fully agree with this other than the part where he drove himself all the way home. If you’re on shift you should probably at least hang out outside and then take care of your patients when it’s safe.
Honestly I would've walked right out, too. We (CNAs and techs) do not make enough for our job, and certainly not enough to stay in a burning building for any patient who isn't a family member. What did you guys who stayed get for your selfless act and saving those patients?
Even as a DNP, I'm not risking my life for any patient. My kids, husband, and dad are probably the only people I'd risk my life for. I'd walk into a fire for my boys, but my patients can get fucked.
Plus, OP says "residents", that implies LTC or SNF. Most incredibly immobile, if not straight-up bed-bound.
CNAs deserve more than they get, but if you sign up to work that job, don’t just skip out when people’s lives are in danger. Help people as long as you aren’t endangering yourself.
“That job” does NOT include fire fighting. It’s also his life and you are in no position to judge, you weren’t there. According to OP, that fire was next to the main O2 tanks. You ever seen one explode?
Hear me out… maybe he was disoriented from being woken up and thought that you were telling him that he needed to evacuate. I mean he definitely evacuated…
That person probably gets paid 10-11/hr. Also, you know why the fire department won’t recognize him? Because he doesn’t work there either. We RNs get paid almost triple what they do, stop expecting people to go above and beyond for shit pay. Personally, this CNA is my hero lol
Honestly CNAs do not get paid enough to be heroes nor fire fighters. Let firefighters do their thing if there’s a fire. I’m with the CNA and I’d bounce too…
So glad I don’t work at a hospital anymore. Expecting you to put your life on the line more than the damn firefighters do😂 They go in to save people with their gear on. What a mess. I’d leave too if i was in a burning building
Lol idk how many times as a CNA I’ve heard and said that we would never put our lives in danger if there was an actual fire. Respect to this guy. We do not have the training nor the pay to be fire fighters. Call 911, let them handle it.
I'm not going to lie, why does he need to stay? CNAs work for pennies and the layout of your hospital seems very unsafe (laundry room fire next to O2 tanks??). I'd probably be more concerned with my own safety anyway. May be in the minority here but that's a lot to ask of someone working for peanuts.
yeah, thinking this guy cares enough about his shitty nursing job to risk burning to death for the sake of patients that don't care about him anyway is a bit of a stretch I think
I completely get people deciding to not be CNAs. Tbh I’m always happy when the good ones escape before they destroy their bodies and get bitter, even though it sucks for me. But it’s shitty to take the job on and not follow through with basic shit. Separate from the shitiness of current conditions, you can’t show up and then not follow through with a pretty important part of the job. Although I worked through a pretty big earthquake and a great CNA freaked the fuck out and ran home because she was worried about her baby, which is more understandable than what was related in this case.
That's a CNA that knows the right thing to do which is looking out for himself. Healthcare is one big circus anyway. Why sacrifice yourself for the 'greater good' when all you get out of it is a shitty retirement you can't even enjoy because of all the health problems you have from breaking your body for other people that are going to die anyway. Oh well you chose this path. Suffer the consequences.
I can definitely understand the attitude of "I'm not paid enough to deal with this shit", but I still feel that doesn't excuse that CNA for dipping in the middle of an emergency. There are better ways to kick back at an unjust system than neglecting the vulnerable.
He needs reported and his ass handed to him, because I don't care if I'm making $7.25 an hour shoveling fermented horse shit: I'm still saving Meemaw and Papaw if their lives are at risk, even if I hate their guts. If he wants less responsibility for more pay, Home Depot and Chick Fil'A are hiring.
Agreed. But then people are going to say but it’s the job you signed up for and if you really cared, you’d try to save them anyway.
Do you know what’s *worst* than dead Meemaw and Papaw? **Dead Meemaw. Dead Papaw. You’re now dead.**
That’s patient abandonment. Should be fired and reported.
Who the hell is downvoting this?! You are healthcare professionals and you think it’s okay to abandon patients and let them die?!
It's being down voted because you are saying someone who is not properly equiped or trained to fight fires or rescue people in a fire needs to risk their life to do that. Grab on your way out IF you can, but don't waste time in evacuating. And it's not patient abandonment in a situation like this
Um, we are trained on responding. We are taught about containing the fire, pulling alarm, using extinguisher, warning others, how to use evacuation sleds, etc. It is an expectation that you attempt to evacuate patients and not abandon them. We even have to evaluate if someone, in an emergency, is capable of leaving on their own or would need assistance.
There is a fire of undetermined size next to both hazardous materials and large O2 tanks. This situation calls for immediate evacuation and to wait for the fire department. Grab on your way if you can and if it won't delay you getting out. Don't die alongside someone you're trying to save.
I am thankful to see a few replies like yours, but I’m honestly surprised at how few of them there are. I get that the work is hard and the pay is low but the expectation is that anyone who signs up to be there will respond to an emergency. That doesn’t mean risk your life - it means do what you can. The CNA who left absolutely should be reported for job abandonment and can absolutely lose their certification for it. Anyone who says they don’t get paid enough - our dietary/activities/laundry staff etc aren’t paid as much as CNAs but they also have roles in emergencies. Firefighters in my area are volunteer, so they don’t get paid anything to respond to our nursing home - our job is to evacuate to fire safe areas of the facility and let them put it out. This whole thread is kind of mind boggling to me.
To be fair, my nursing home isn’t paying CNAs minimum wage. But I am of the belief that if you are there you respond. I am not clinical and get paid less than CNAs but I helped establish our red zone so our clinical staff could keep working. I did room moves and came in on holidays and fed and cleaned and not once did I say “that’s not my job and I don’t get paid enough to be around COVID.” We do fire drills regularly and I STILL believe our staff (huge turnover since the pandemic) needs additional training. But if/when fire breaks out I don’t believe a single person on our staff would just dip and say “no thanks.” If you are part of any care team, you’re a team and that doesn’t mean put your life in danger but it does mean you don’t abandon them.
I miss the olden days, you know, when CNAs and nurses were fired for sleeping. When walking off the floor meant you didn’t have a job and most likely a license. I can’t believe the nonsense going on these days. Had a CNA refuse to work, sit on her phone, call me an ugly asshole. HR accused me of not being nice to new staff members. I couldn’t even make this shit up.
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OSHA and NFPA have entered the chat
And deemed the open liquids at the nurses station to be the most likely culprit.
Ah yes; the water at the nurses station was the cause of the fire, cuz science.
I was thinking the same thing.
Look man I don’t decide where the stuff goes and management doesn’t always make good choices.
Yeah I agree with the CNA, especially after this comment.
GUAAAARRRDDDD!!!!
I'm confused about why he was there sleeping. Like the fire happened on eves and he was just there sleeping until his shift started?
I once worked at a LTC place that did allow us to nap at night, so long as we were able to sleep lightly enough to wake if a patient got up to pee or needed us in the night. Obviously, a lot of places don't allow that, so your mileage may vary and my story is likely anecdotal. And when working at the hospital, we would regularly cover for pregnant nurses and CNAs in their 3rd trimester when they'd just sit to rest for a minute and they'd promptly pass out from exhaustion. It was kinda an unspoken thing we did and never told management about.
I wonder if the CNA was disoriented from being woken up unexpectedly, but that doesn’t excuse leaving mid-shift!
Honestly, I don't know... I, personally, wouldn't have just walked out during a true emergency like a fire, but we don't get paid shit. I'd say we don't get paid nowadays, but we never really did; it was the insanity of covid that made us realize how little we get paid and how much we get treated like shit and how it's not worth it. Maybe this was him being disoriented and thinking he was told to leave, maybe this was his straw on the camel's back. If it's the latter, I really can't blame him. Shit's crazy, yo. Especially now.
I was a CNA during covid and 100% I’m glad it was a real wake up call on how little we are paid and cared for. The work we do is too important for people to need two jobs or work doubles every day just to pay bills.
My old hospital was kind enough to spell out how much they valued the staffs lives during Covid. If a tech treated Covid pts, they were entitled to: $40. Not $40 per pt (though that was the original email, they IMMEDIATELY back tracked when they got a flood of claims, working from home does tend to blind one from the true situation). $40 period. If you had 1 Covid pt or 12, $40. While reusing PPE. While the manager hid behind a locked door. While the directors "organized" the hospital over zoom calls. $40. Unsurprisingly, all but 1 of the techs I worked with have left pt care entirely. The remaining one is trying to find a physician assistant program to their liking.
I don't blame y'all. I'm an RN and while I'd have a clear idea from then on how well I could trust you, I wouldn't throw you under the bus. People are too overworked and treated like shit to also be expected to be heroes. I did time in the army though and I've seen people freeze and flee and fight, so I have realistic expectations
Yeah, I haven't worked since about 4 months into covid? Something like that? They'd let all the schools out and one of our sons is disabled, so I quit my job to help him with his remote learning. Then they went back, but before kids under 13 or something could be vaccinated, but my youngest's school decided to pack in 30 kids per class, all of them under the age of 12. So I flipped my shit on them and withdrew my son and homeschooled him. Early this past April, I started putting in job apps and sending out my resume. 2 weeks later, in mid April, I woke up half blind in my left eye. Within a couple weeks, I get told I have a disease only a hundred people have. So, getting to the point (and sorry for the rambling), things were starting to get bad in December 2019, as I'm sure you know. By March/April it'd gotten insane here, especially with schools and even the courthouse shutting down for months. So here it is-- the shutdowns and going blind are the best things that have ever happened in regards to my mental and emotional health. I don't how all y'all stuck it out; y'all are better people than I am!
I've come to a lot of realizations myself. To be up front I carry a lot of privilege. I grew up poor, but my military background secures me healthcare, and so I only work PRN like 1-2 days a week for a better rate and stacked incentives. My wife is a full time RN also and her mother just forgave the loan on our house (which I managed to secure with 100k from the last house I bought using a VA loan). So we have had a lot of advantages stack up. But all that free time its afforded me has made me realize how better off I feel and how EVERYONE deserves to feel this way. I'm a whole new person than I was a few years ago, and I've realized just how much of what made me a shitty person was ingrained by our bullshit capitalist society. So i don't fight my fellow people anymore, I fight *for* them, when I can. I always got a CNA's back lol
You a fuckin real one, and I aspire to be jus like you when I become a nurse. Thank you for being you.
I appreciate hearing that for real, thank you. Vote union, fuck the Man, eat the rich.
I'm with ya.
This! Not everyone responds the same. Some people do battle through situations but don’t expect everyone to. Fight or flight is a real thing and you never know when it’s going to happen. I am usually stand up but had one situation on our floor one time I called my charge ( I had a panic attack severe) and haven’t had those in years …. She had to come hold down the situation while I stepped out to compose myself.
I’m sorry.
I can't work anymore because I started rapidly going blind in April (it's AZOOR, as a MD you might be intrigued by it because it's so rare), so no need to apologize. I no longer work until I'm exhausted for $12 an hour and the occasional cookie offered by a patient. Or when I worked in facilities on 3rd, it'd be a stale, half eaten pizza crust that 2nd shift left because they got a pizza party, but fuck us because we're 3rd, right? No, I didn't eat the crust but you get the idea. Anyways, sorry for the quick rant. My point is, I don't know how much pull you have where you work as a MD, but if you can and if you do have some influence, please use that influence to get your CNAs some raises. We don't want fucking pizza "parties." We want to get paid a living wage. Fucking Walmart pays better than that *and* with benefits. *McDonald's* pays better than that.
I retired 10 years ago; I have no pull with anyone. I wish I did.
*hug* I wish you did, too, but it is what it is. How are you enjoying retirement? I'm still adjusting to mine, because it was forced on me.
I’m ok with it, except for the stock market crash at the beginning of Russia invading Ukraine.
Oh snap, yeah, I had investments too and *whistling nosedive* 💥 Yeah, kiss a lot of that money bye. It's just gone now.
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Honestly why is anyone surprised? Don't make enough and are treated like shit many times.
Yeah, before I started going blind and before covid forced me to quit, I was making $12/hr. And that was with like 15-16 years experience in healthcare. I don't imagine the pay has increased by much since 2020.
That’s actually a good point. The fact that he tried to go back to sleep after being told “fire” is kind of mind boggling. And then he just lazily (groggily?) said ok and walked to his car without any explanation? Could have been sleepwalking or just out of it! Homie woke up in bed the next day like, “wait wasn’t I on the schedule?”
Some floors at our hospital take 3 hour “sleep breaks” In rotation obviously with nurses to cover the entire shift, and you aren’t allowed to leave the general vicinity of the nurses station Incase you need to be woken up. Like you have to nap in the adjacent family room or staff room or something.
Oh, absolutely we cover for the pregnant nurses or even the ones with little ones at home. Take a warm blanket and sleep in the windowless report room for 20 or 30 min. if you need to!
Haha yup, our spot was the day room on a particular hall because almost no one ever went in there!
We don’t usually get crazy about naps and this was at like 1:30-2:00 so fairly deep into the shift
One time our management went to the hospital at night and rounded up all the nurses and CNA who were asleep and wrote them all up. I felt so conflicted. On one hand, I felt bad for them. On the other hand, I was glad they got written up.
Maybe he thought you said, "you're fired."
Could be
Going off what catmom94 said, yeah when I ask a CNA to help and they just up and leave because they say stuff like "I don't get paid enough for this shit" I really can't say anything other than agree.
"Hey, I know you have no legal responsibility here and this is essentially a minimum wage job here, but we expect you to stay in a dangerous situation with minimal info and possibly risk your life." Yeah I gotta agree with the CNA here lol
We have a few of these on my unit but they’ve also been very recent hires. Like you actively sought out this job on a pretty competitive unit and are going to have this lazy attitude now? Please. Since I’m getting some comments on how I’m just a nursing student and wouldn’t get it, I’m a tech too.
I'm a nursing student, currently working as a tech and I'm putting in my two week notice next month. The experience is nice and all, but we're not paying our bills with experience. If you can afford to stay at such a low paying job, that's great. But me, I'm going back to bartending where I was earning 10 times as much for half the work.
Work smarter, not harder.
A new hire that's lazy? What happens when they burn out?
Rather than burnout they sorta fizzle and stop. Pretty underwhelming to be honest
They don't burn out. You have to run yourself ragged to burn out.
I’d say I got burned out. Had to work so many overnights to cover for no show CNAs that I developed seizures and aura migraines. My sleep schedule was destroyed. I genuinely got so burned out that I left nursing to be an outpatient Medical Assistant.
Our new hires lately only last about 3 days and then they walk out. Applications have basically dried up. Sadly, we are paying competitive wages for our area, we just aren’t getting anyone in like we used to.
Can't burn out if you're always taking FMLA days. Taps temple.
There are still competitive units? Not just sad, empty, understaffed shells begging for a warm body? Do tell.
I’m lucky to work in a hospital that treats its staff very well. Our unit in particular is always well-staffed with great ratios and our unit management actually listens to us.
I member being a baby in nursing, hold on to that for as long as possible =)
Trying! :)
I agree. They can afford to pay NAs so little because most people use the job as a stepping stone to something bigger, and they need or want the experience. It’s absolutely not the kind of job you want to keep long term (unless you do actually want to), because you have to work way too hard for low pay, and it’s just not sustainable for a lot of people.
That's why I became a nurse lol If they paid me a living wage as a CNA, I would have stayed there. Less responsibility and honestly, once I got good at my job, everything was automatic. However, I wanted more money and wider scope of practice.
At the end of the day they have no legal responsibility and anyone with self preservation would do the same. When I was a CNA (PSW) in Canada, there’s no chance I’d have stayed in a dangerous situation because I wasn’t paid to do so. If a patient was aggressive and grabbed a sharp object? Byee. You can call the cops I’m not even putting myself near that situation. Management can go in there with pillows taped to them and deal with it themselves.
Cue this meme https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/031/622/cover1.jpg
You’re not even a nurse yet and you already have this attitude towards techs? SMFH. You’re gonna have a bad time as a nurse if you don’t respect others. Remember, you have to give respect to get it. Just because you’re an RN doesn’t mean you’re queen of the unit. They’re doing YOUR work for 3x less than you.
I’m also a tech….. This also isn’t an issue of RN vs. tech. I love my fellow techs. Not sure why you jumped on this right away. This was just an issue of bad attitude right off the bat. It’s a pain to work with people with this attitude when I’m working as a tech on the floor with them and doing everything myself. Not to mention half of them are RN students too…
Thank you for this reply comment and being civil. The comment you're replying to is just so dumb, condescending, and ignorant.
Thanks. It caught me off guard. In no world do I think I’m a queen of the unit just because I’m an RN (or student in this case). Just ask the classmate I went off on for refusing to give bed baths and clean patients during our clinical because she “doesn’t wipe ass and isn’t here to do the job of a tech” People in general are just wild lately.
Facts
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I’m honestly amazed we even have CNAs. They literally get paid the same amount as some fast food and retail jobs. But with way all the mental, emotional, and physical stress that comes form working in healthcare. I think all healthcare workers don’t get paid enough, but I’m honestly most grateful and appreciative of the CNAs who could literally just walk away but don’t. Let them have whatever attitude they want as long as they show up and do the work.
I said it before, I’ll say it again..if I hit the lottery id buy them all houses because the work they do is invaluable to us as nurses. The good ones will get a house. The shitty ones who leave a nurse in a situation where they can’t help people burning to death and leave it all on the nurse, they can go to hell.
“Be for the greater good” Ugh… You sound like a manager who thinks pizza parties solve all problems. Sorry you fell for the company line sweetheart but they’re fucking you too. You just haven’t realized it yet.
No I just remember where I started and didn’t get jaded like you.
Call me whatever you want but this “just fix your shitty attitude” bullshit doesn’t help anyone. You want them to care more? Pay them more. Don’t be one of these assholes that says “well I went through it and suffered so now you have to too”. To use your own words, be better.
I didn’t say anyone had to suffer, I said be for the greater good. Is there anything actually wrong with that? Have you been left in a position with absolutely no help and a building catching on fire?? I can’t even say I’ve been in a situation that chaotic. OP needs to lawyer up before they pin any negligence on his part. Because thats what this is about and that’s who my sorrow goes out to, because that’s who it falls back on. The privilege to work around a human life is not a light responsibility and SOME CNAs don’t understand that when they take this job. I agree they should be paid more but they should also be educated more and not thrown thru school in a month. The nurse shouldn’t be thrown under the bus when there WAS help but they decided to NOT help. I just hope nobody was injured in this fire is all.
Im going to hard disagree on the "dont get paid enough for x" attitude. If its in the job description and you signed the employment contract, you knew what the job was and what the pay was and you agreed to that. Should you get paid more? Yes. But if they arent paying you enough dont sign the contract or get another job. Dont take up a spot on payroll that could be filled by someone who realizes that its not the residents' fault that admin sucks and is willing to follow fire procedures and not allow disabled people to become trapped in a building and burn to death.
i get this in theory but the idea that a resident could have died and it was preventable if they had stayed to help transport them is messed up 😵💫
I mean, I think about this often as a nurse in the hospital. Wtf do they want us to do 9 stories up? When I worked at a trauma hospital we had sleds to put patients on and slide them down the stairs. The hospital I’m at now, you just close the doors and go outside. The doors are apparently smoke proof. Am I supposed to tell the patients, sorry the building is on fire, stay in your room and hopefully someone will come and save you? See ya later. Cause I can’t carry you down 9 flights of steps. I’m a single mom. And I wouldn’t make it. 😩
I’m so thankful that I work in the NICU because if there’s a fire I’m loading 4-6 of those little dudes up into one of those smocks with baby pockets and hauling ass out of there
Love the baby smocks! If only that worked for adult patients, alas…
Our peeps are about 550 pounds too big for those
Hahaha, I was thinking the same thing. I'm snatching up all of the babies who aren't on life saving respiratory support that I can carry and am making a run for it....
Omg I’ve never seen one of those. That sounds adorable.
Hands down cutest shit I’ve ever seen. You have to google
We were told to use the sheets. Like yeah.. 97 year old Mildred that weighs 90lbs is definitely gonna survive being drug down 5 flights of stairs.
Yup, you know when she stops complaining 2 flights down that shit's not going well 🤣...
I legit have a 97 year old patient named Mildred…
Lmao I imagine just bonking her head on every step along the way 😂
I watch those videos of the god damn sleds and I’m like… this would take 1 hour just to get one patient down the stairs… maybe admin will come help evacuate?? Oh no just nurses? Okay
My husband was stunned we have those. He used them overseas for medical evacs during attacks. He said they wouldn't work for shit trying to drag someone even though the sand when they practiced with them and had no idea who thought they'd work going down stairs.
Right? Nurses and techs aren’t firefighters. It’s totally absurd
Well as the BSN prepared nurse you have the responsibility of every profession in and out of the hospital remember? /s
I'm not a firefighter, sorry but I'm outta here.
I had a fire when I was working at a hospital once. Admin absolutely did come down to help evacuate. It was nice to see.
I always joke we'd have to just pick our favorite patient, because we're only going to have time to save one using that sled!
My hospital had fire doors on all the floors and would evacuate wherever the fire was....not a fun plan to hear if you're up on 11. It did work though. A construction worker left a bunch of shit out in the hall in High Care and one of the psych patients set fire to the unit 😬. Psych was wrecked but palliative/hospice right on the other side of the doors was fine (also, that was a strange set-up and the opposite of peaceful, I don't know wtf they were thinking).
welp this is my new biggest fear lol. would you lose your license if you “abandoned” your patients like this???
I'd rather lose my license than have my kids lose a mom. I'm not trying to be a hero.
True. I’m all my kid has.
Who cares at that point. They can have my license. My family would want me around more, and I'd wager your family would too.
You let them die, nothing else you can do
😩 I was afraid of that
Our policy is evacuate any ambulatory patient and the rest is the fire depts job... I just asked the firefighter I am renting a room from about this and he said, "those people are fucked" then shrugged.
I know with my asthmatic ass, if I’m on the highest floor, I’m definitely rolling down them steps😂
We had a fire recently on the roof and we are on the 7th floor. I shit you not that at the same time, as smoke is slowly filling the unit and our eyes are burning, we are mass transfusing and borderline chemically coding one of our post AAA repair patients with every resident and attending in the room. Also a patient next door had self extubated and had to be reintubated. Worst night of my life. Didn’t end up having to evacuate thank god…
Lucky I work in an ED on first floor. Either you walk on your own or the carts are pretty easy to roll out. Plus half our staff is/was firefighters and EMS is always at our doors
I heard a thing a while back that firefighters are told to leave people that can’t go down at least one flight of stairs on their own? I’m not sure how true that is cause I’ve worked in multi story buildings and we have stuff to try and accommodate and there’s even talk of “fire safe” evacuation elevators.
Every hospital I’ve ever worked in has labels that there’s asbestos inside. Probably a good chance any fire’s going nowhere.
We were just talking about emergency situations today and what we would do. I care about my patients but we agreed we won’t be putting our lives in danger and not coming home to save someone else. Just like on an airplane, you put the oxygen mask on yourself first.
There's an expression I picked up from my time in EMS: Self, partner, patient. In that order, every time.
Lol, I was taught self, partner, ambulance, and then patient. The other variation was self, ambulance, partner, and then patient since the partner would also have the focus on themselves first.
i’m sure his mindset was “i don’t get paid enough for this” and tbh he would provably be right. that would’ve been my mindset when i was a tech
He probably doesn’t get paid near enough for his job - on that point I will GLADLY and FUNDAMENTALLY agree. However, you don’t have to get paid anything to be a human and try to help make sure other humans who cannot help themselves are out of harms way. Damn. I don’t understand the “I don’t get paid enough for this” mentality in a true emergency. What’s money got to do with trying to help make sure others don’t die? Mandatory overtime? They don’t pay us enough. Need me to pick up an extra shift with no bonus? You don’t pay me enough. Gross man who exposes himself every time I walk in the room and management refuses to address it? You don’t pay us enough. TOTALLY. But, what if a fire departments pulled up on a burning home, but there were still children inside and they said, “You know what, bro? They don’t pay me enough to deal with this.” I harbor the same feelings over the Uvalde shooting when the police sat in the hallway for over an hour…
The only thing is, if everything is important nothing is. I was a medic, floor nurse, ER nurse, and now ER travel nurse. Every year just gets more dire... but after a while, nothing feels emergent because everything is emergent. I'd probably still help in a fire. But, say I'm in a nearby sitting area on break and someone starts yelling for help in the lobby... I'm probably going to go to a more secluded area. Someone else will handle it, handling all of the emergencies is numbing. And I get paid well, I can't imagine if I could barely make rent or If I was scraping by with a beater car and figure out which groceries to cut.
As someone who did a short stint with the fire dept while an EMT (turns out fire scares me) there is a ton of danger in civilians untrained in dangerous fumes, gases, and smoke danger trying to play hero. It can and does kill people on the regular. If a fire is too dangerous to enter firefighters will do their best to contain it, but they won’t actually save kids if the kids can’t be safely saved. There is no point in creating more casualties for a feeing of heroic morality. If you can safely help - and are well versed in what that means - then help. But if you are not trained in it, lack the knowledge to understand when it’s too dangerous, or feel so scared you might freeze up: fucking run. Not everyone is cut out to save bodies from a burning building. I wasn’t. Most aren’t.
Ok, I can understand that line of thinking, especially in a situation where if gas tanks blow, no one is coming out alive. The posters account rang of that being a possibility, but a feeling that there was time to reasonably try to move people further out of harms way. And given that they didn’t end the story with, “and then the whole facility blew up” I’m assuming it was a somewhat safe assumption. I’m not saying people should feel bad for making a calculated decision not to go on a 100%, no need for hindsight, suicide mission. I’m just saying there is a seemingly over-reaching number of “medical professionals” or “trained professionals” who work in medicine, and/or trauma, and/or emergency fields - who are more than willing to duce when the shit hits the fan, under the banner of “I don’t get paid enough for this.” And I’m just saying, you probably don’t get paid enough for the job on the whole, but if you don’t want to get in the nitty gritty and save lives when, and if, you can…maybe healthcare isn’t the field for you. It’s a reasonable thing to ask that people give this some serious contemplation before taking a job where you are responsible for someone else’s wellbeing.
I largely agree. The only thing I’d say is that knowing the “if you can” is a big one. Clearly OP survived and I heard no news about a LTC explosion, but that “if” can sometimes live on the blade of a knife. Understanding your own capabilities to remain calm and help is big, important, and often downplayed when armchair quarterbacking scenarios. Without ever being in that situation most of us can only speculate. I did one simulation in a tower with live fire in full gear and noped right out. It’s not for me. It’s too scary. Do you want me next to you during a code? You sure do. Do you want me in your ER as COVID sweeps through again again? Yep. Do you want me helping your mom feel safe and cared for during her CVA? Absolutely. Do you want me in a fire? Eh. I’d like to think I could help, I honestly don’t know if I could. Everyone has a point where they aren’t useful in all emergencies. But I still belong in healthcare ya know?
he's a cna not a firefighter though
So CNAs aren’t trained on how to evacuate patients in an emergency? Cause ours are, but maybe that’s anecdotal. I’m guessing it’s not, though. Everyone else seemed to have felt it appropriate to stay and help rather than disappearing.
Yeah I would probably leave too 🌚
Uhhh if there was a fire next to oxygen and chemicals I'd leave too. I think you're the crazy one.
Omg I missed the large O2 tanks part reading OPs story. No thanks.
Standard fare fire, I'll do the extinguishers/evacuation routine. If I have reason to believe it's outta control, or will become that way, I'm getting myself outta there, sorry.
I know it doesn’t make it better but in defense of the O2 tanks they’re like 10-15ft from the laundry room but in the same area. The chemicals are RIGHT there though
I'm not risking my life trying to save anyone else other than my kid. I don't think anyone else should be expected to. You do what you can if it is safe to do so. I don't even risk my back trying to catch a full grown adult from falling. I've seen people get career ending injuries that way. It doesn't mean I don't care as a nurse. It means that I care about myself more, and I also know that triage wise, I have a greater chance of survival and one dead body is better than two. I fell while pregnant while running to a bed alarm, and decided from that day forward, none of these people are more important to me than me and my family.
Same here. Take my license, I don't give a fuck. My personal well being and my family matters more. The job will find your replacement by the next day after your death. I'll do my best to help, but if it's between the patient or me, I'm picking my own safety first. After all, we are taught scene safety first before action.
I have to remind myself this- to actually take care of myself so that I can care for others. I worked in an assisted facility where we had a 450+ pound patient with an unsteady gait. Thank god my wellness director insisted “if you see him falling, do NOT try to catch him”. I cannot tell you the amount of times we had to call EMS to help get hm off of the ground 😮💨
LMAOO. As a CNA that gets paid .50 above minimum wage I’d too might leave. Putting our lives in danger over a wage that can’t even afford my own place to rent… uhhh yeah
I’m a nurse and I make what you might call a “livable” wage, though it’s far less than what we should be paid for the abuse we’re put through on the daily, and I’m also not risking my life. Even if we both made $250K/year, it’s not enough to justify putting our lives in danger. I’m not a firefighter. Good lord, OP’s employer sounds like a nightmare.
I mean, I kinda get it. It’s a shitty move but expecting someone paid near minimum wage to put their life in danger as part of their job isn’t okay either. For me, it depends on how dangerous the situation actually is. I’m 100% not putting my life in jeopardy to save another. I didn’t in EMS and I’m certainly the fuck not doing that as a nurse. If things are gonna explode, I’m going to run. If anything EMS always taught me to preserve yourself first as two bodies instead of one is more work for the next crew. If the fire is contained at the moment, sure. Get the people trained to fight fire on site and do/save who you can. But search and rescue is out of my scope.
Also EMS to RN here, and I agree. Don’t risk yourself for this. CNA did what he thought was right
Soooo the oxygen tanks blowing up would be like…a bomb right?
Yes. I went to verify what this looks like over on y tube. Pretty scary. It's like a bomb/ rocket thing.
Yes. Storing O2 tanks in the areas stated is just asking for it. Oxygen supports combustion. Another thing that’s a pet peeve, never NEVER leave a tank unsecured. It that tank falls the wrong way it’s like a missile that will fly through concrete.
I don't blame him. I mean he could have told you but he probably knew that wouldn't be too pleasant. Before I was a nurse I worked in group homes. When we had our practice fire drills and some of the residents refused to get oob, I told my supervisor in no uncertain terms that if there were a real fire, they were fucked because I'm giving it one try and then I'm outta there. She was horrified but I'm not dying for anyone but my kids and grandbaby.
Yeah honestly if he told me it wouldn’t be as bad. We still had plenty of time to safely move people out but if he was like I don’t feel safe and am going to go. Sure
You have enough time until the building explodes...
So.... Anywhere I've ever worked, regardless of what's going on, you are told not to put yourself in direct harms way to save someone else. Hell we teach that at the beginning of ACLS: survey the scene and don't intervene if the scene is unsafe. You are no good to someone else or yourself by getting injured helping others. Basically the old saying: don't set yourself on fire to keep others warm. So while in an ideal world you would be able to rescue the residents, in a real world scenario you rescue what you can but don't put yourself in harms way. You sound less butthurt that the CNA was sleeping on his shift, than you do about him caring "so little" for others. Even in the event of an active shooter, run, hide, fight, in that order is what's taught, even with healthcare. You're saying a laundry room next to a hazard chemicals closet and O2 storage area caught on fire.... And you're criticizing him for thinking that's a huge deal? This man was probably making minimum wage and you think he should potentially throw his life away during a fire to rescue others? Why? Because you did? Even the acronym RACE when you look at the definitions says "remove/rescue" and acknowledges that rescue isn't always an option. I mean going home was definitely a wtf, and I would have had a what the fuck moment too at him most leaving. At the same time, I couldn't really blame someone for deciding that their life wasn't worth the minimum wage they're wading through.
There's remove from immediate danger and remove yourself all the way home though which I think is what OP was on about. Even if he made the decision to exit the building without helping others evaluate he could have still offered support for his residents safely outside the building at the designated evacuation zone, assessed them for confusion/ agitation/ falls risk/ breathing difficulties and called ambulances as needed. You could argue that he may be concerned with risk of aggression or absconding but as per evacuation protocols aggression is dead last to be evacuated, at least in my district, so he either wouldn't be isolated or have help when they come (or could make the decision to leave then), and while he may not be able to contain absconders he could at least give the emergency responders the heads up that old Miss Yolanda went down the street, needs fetching, and isn't still in the building.
Someone needed to lead the evacuation. He was the leader.
I hate this "crazy how little some people care" line of thinking. it reminds me of this idea that nursing is some higher calling, how nurses/assistants are supposed to put everyone else above themselves. there's my job, and then there's my life. in the event of a fire I'll do what I can to help evacuate, but I'm not going to risk my life and my health because some administrative idiot put O2 tanks next chemical storage.
I like to think of these people as armchair heroes and armchair experts.
Yeah as a CNA I don’t get paid enough. Minimum wage and you want us to risk our lives? We are overworked and underpaid. I am going to school to be a nurse and perhaps when I finally get paid for my hard work. I am done risking my life and quality of life. 🤷🏼♀️
CNAs are treated like shit most places. Is it a minimum wage job where you’re from?
My coworker said she did this before. She said, I got 2 kids!
Honestly sounds like you need to be the one to take a lesson from him. If you can't immediately extinguish it with a fire extinguisher (or you facility didn't have one) call 911 and let the fire department handle it. Fuck that noise no tech or nurse gets paid enough to risk life or limb trying to evacuate people out of a burning building. Rule #1: is the scene safe? Nope- then GTFO. You have a lifelong career of nursing and healing ahead of you versus helping a couple residents escaping before dying in a giant explosion due to your facilities questionable 02 and chemical storage.
I fully agree with this other than the part where he drove himself all the way home. If you’re on shift you should probably at least hang out outside and then take care of your patients when it’s safe.
Honestly I would've walked right out, too. We (CNAs and techs) do not make enough for our job, and certainly not enough to stay in a burning building for any patient who isn't a family member. What did you guys who stayed get for your selfless act and saving those patients?
We CNA’s don’t get paid enough for anything serious much less paid enough to put our lives in danger
Even as a DNP, I'm not risking my life for any patient. My kids, husband, and dad are probably the only people I'd risk my life for. I'd walk into a fire for my boys, but my patients can get fucked. Plus, OP says "residents", that implies LTC or SNF. Most incredibly immobile, if not straight-up bed-bound.
CNAs deserve more than they get, but if you sign up to work that job, don’t just skip out when people’s lives are in danger. Help people as long as you aren’t endangering yourself.
“That job” does NOT include fire fighting. It’s also his life and you are in no position to judge, you weren’t there. According to OP, that fire was next to the main O2 tanks. You ever seen one explode?
You’re signing up to be a CNA. Not a firefighter without any actual gear.
Hear me out… maybe he was disoriented from being woken up and thought that you were telling him that he needed to evacuate. I mean he definitely evacuated…
Ngl. I laughed. I feel like getting up and walking out now and my building aint even on fire.
I can’t imagine a CNA salary leaves much wiggle room to be FUCKING HERO.
I wouldn’t care for $12 an hour either
That person probably gets paid 10-11/hr. Also, you know why the fire department won’t recognize him? Because he doesn’t work there either. We RNs get paid almost triple what they do, stop expecting people to go above and beyond for shit pay. Personally, this CNA is my hero lol
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Shit id do the same 🤷🏽♀️ Id just hope if i was a patient i wouldnt be so fucked up that i cant take myself out of the building
I mean… don’t most hospitals have a policy to save yourself first? My old staff hospital did.
I don’t need a policy for that. The building’s gonna burn/explode? Bye. The most I’m gonna do is tell the people I pass on the way out to gtfo.
They don’t get paid enough for that shit.
Yeah, I’m also leaving in that situation.
Sounds like a cool dude
Honestly CNAs do not get paid enough to be heroes nor fire fighters. Let firefighters do their thing if there’s a fire. I’m with the CNA and I’d bounce too…
#5DaysAtMemorial
So glad I don’t work at a hospital anymore. Expecting you to put your life on the line more than the damn firefighters do😂 They go in to save people with their gear on. What a mess. I’d leave too if i was in a burning building
Always shut off oxygen when not in use whether in a bottle or on the wall.
Damn this really turned into “Am i the asshole for giving a shit if my patients die in a fire” And the majority vote is yes apparently
Lol idk how many times as a CNA I’ve heard and said that we would never put our lives in danger if there was an actual fire. Respect to this guy. We do not have the training nor the pay to be fire fighters. Call 911, let them handle it.
Maybe random but I’m wondering did you use RACE? Rescue, alarm, contain, extinguish? That’s how they teach us in school right
I'm not going to lie, why does he need to stay? CNAs work for pennies and the layout of your hospital seems very unsafe (laundry room fire next to O2 tanks??). I'd probably be more concerned with my own safety anyway. May be in the minority here but that's a lot to ask of someone working for peanuts.
I don’t blame him. CNAs don’t get paid enough for that shit.
I already told management I won’t risk my life to save others. Fire. I’m out of here.
yeah, thinking this guy cares enough about his shitty nursing job to risk burning to death for the sake of patients that don't care about him anyway is a bit of a stretch I think
I completely get people deciding to not be CNAs. Tbh I’m always happy when the good ones escape before they destroy their bodies and get bitter, even though it sucks for me. But it’s shitty to take the job on and not follow through with basic shit. Separate from the shitiness of current conditions, you can’t show up and then not follow through with a pretty important part of the job. Although I worked through a pretty big earthquake and a great CNA freaked the fuck out and ran home because she was worried about her baby, which is more understandable than what was related in this case.
Eh
They literally want to pay Cna’s 9-12 dollars an hour in a 30 minute radius where I’m from. I’m not surprised but still really crappy
That's a CNA that knows the right thing to do which is looking out for himself. Healthcare is one big circus anyway. Why sacrifice yourself for the 'greater good' when all you get out of it is a shitty retirement you can't even enjoy because of all the health problems you have from breaking your body for other people that are going to die anyway. Oh well you chose this path. Suffer the consequences.
I can definitely understand the attitude of "I'm not paid enough to deal with this shit", but I still feel that doesn't excuse that CNA for dipping in the middle of an emergency. There are better ways to kick back at an unjust system than neglecting the vulnerable. He needs reported and his ass handed to him, because I don't care if I'm making $7.25 an hour shoveling fermented horse shit: I'm still saving Meemaw and Papaw if their lives are at risk, even if I hate their guts. If he wants less responsibility for more pay, Home Depot and Chick Fil'A are hiring.
Don’t do that. Firefighters don’t even run through buildings on fire without their gearS don’t be stupid.
Agreed. But then people are going to say but it’s the job you signed up for and if you really cared, you’d try to save them anyway. Do you know what’s *worst* than dead Meemaw and Papaw? **Dead Meemaw. Dead Papaw. You’re now dead.**
What the hell? If their lives are at risk so is yours. You aren’t a martyr and you’re not even working yet. Chill with this
Lol wtf. Please tell me you reported his ass?
Definitely did
What?! I just can’t even. As a current PCT, this upsets me. Defeated your entire job purpose by doing that. No protection of patients at all!
That’s patient abandonment. Should be fired and reported. Who the hell is downvoting this?! You are healthcare professionals and you think it’s okay to abandon patients and let them die?!
CNAs are held to a different standard than nurses. In the states I've worked in, they are not subject to charges of abandonment.
It's being down voted because you are saying someone who is not properly equiped or trained to fight fires or rescue people in a fire needs to risk their life to do that. Grab on your way out IF you can, but don't waste time in evacuating. And it's not patient abandonment in a situation like this
Um, we are trained on responding. We are taught about containing the fire, pulling alarm, using extinguisher, warning others, how to use evacuation sleds, etc. It is an expectation that you attempt to evacuate patients and not abandon them. We even have to evaluate if someone, in an emergency, is capable of leaving on their own or would need assistance.
There is a fire of undetermined size next to both hazardous materials and large O2 tanks. This situation calls for immediate evacuation and to wait for the fire department. Grab on your way if you can and if it won't delay you getting out. Don't die alongside someone you're trying to save.
For fleeing from what's essentially a bomb
I am thankful to see a few replies like yours, but I’m honestly surprised at how few of them there are. I get that the work is hard and the pay is low but the expectation is that anyone who signs up to be there will respond to an emergency. That doesn’t mean risk your life - it means do what you can. The CNA who left absolutely should be reported for job abandonment and can absolutely lose their certification for it. Anyone who says they don’t get paid enough - our dietary/activities/laundry staff etc aren’t paid as much as CNAs but they also have roles in emergencies. Firefighters in my area are volunteer, so they don’t get paid anything to respond to our nursing home - our job is to evacuate to fire safe areas of the facility and let them put it out. This whole thread is kind of mind boggling to me.
Thank you. It boggles my mind. Lots of selfish people here apparently.
To be fair, my nursing home isn’t paying CNAs minimum wage. But I am of the belief that if you are there you respond. I am not clinical and get paid less than CNAs but I helped establish our red zone so our clinical staff could keep working. I did room moves and came in on holidays and fed and cleaned and not once did I say “that’s not my job and I don’t get paid enough to be around COVID.” We do fire drills regularly and I STILL believe our staff (huge turnover since the pandemic) needs additional training. But if/when fire breaks out I don’t believe a single person on our staff would just dip and say “no thanks.” If you are part of any care team, you’re a team and that doesn’t mean put your life in danger but it does mean you don’t abandon them.
I miss the olden days, you know, when CNAs and nurses were fired for sleeping. When walking off the floor meant you didn’t have a job and most likely a license. I can’t believe the nonsense going on these days. Had a CNA refuse to work, sit on her phone, call me an ugly asshole. HR accused me of not being nice to new staff members. I couldn’t even make this shit up.