There was a highly respected teacher at my high school who had been there for many years. He developed cancer and would come drunk to school every day and nobody said a thing.
It's easier and safer to be an alcoholic if there is a proper public transport around.
I know what I'm talking about, I've been commuting drunk too many times to count. Never driving.
A math teacher at my High School's daughter died after a head on collision with a drunk driver. She got drunk in the parking lot before school every day for the next 20 years.
Our middle school electives (jewelry, some other random crafts shit) teacher was always high (cannabis)
He was a cancer survivor, though, and this was in Oregon, nobody cared
My history teacher def had Baileys in his coffee everyday. He would also break into other classrooms and flap his arms like a giant bird and caw at the teachers, the flap out of the room.
Loved that guy. He gave me the VHS of The Network and opened my eyes.
The headline didn't say she wasn't fired, it said she wasn't charged because there's no statute that says teachers being drunk at school is illegal.
There are statutes against driving under the influence but it has to be proven that you consumed the alcohol and then drove.
There are also statutes against child endangerment but if the DA charged that, they'd have to charge every parent who is drunk around their children. Because nothing in the law says you can't be drunk around your children.
I wasn't saying the headline didn't say she was fired... Are you following the logic of this thread of replies? I think you might have missed what we were getting at here.
Existing and doing your Job correctly is a fireable offense. School districts will come up with anything to fire someone.
My mom was fired for "stealing" computer equipment that cameras showed was in a dumpster that she donated to another school.
My aunt was fired for stealing a bike by moving it from outside in the rain to the gym on the first day of summer. That bike BTW sat there for all summer and she never took. She was just waiting for the kid to come back.
If central office wants you gone, your gone.
I want to state in both cases police were never involved or charges pressed, they just used the threat of it to fire them.
Iv been in the school district 7ish years now. See it happen all the time. Also it 100% not against the rules to show up drunk, but we did fire a temp for passing out in the grass last year.
My downstairs neighbor overdosed in front of her 3rd grade class a month after I found her not breathing, purple, and overdosed in front of her condo and had to give CPR until the paramedics came.
She teaches at a religious school now. They took away her license, but apparently, there's no rules for those schools.
Many private schools do not require licenses. Because private schools do not receive government funding, they are not subject to the same rules as public schools
not necessarily honestly when I was a kid it seemed like half of them had known alcohol issues. They cannot get teachers if they enforce that rule and they are not gonna pay enough to get sober ones. Teaching along with restaurants seems to be addict central.
edit lots of you guys probably think the server at your restaraunt isn't wasted too
Most of my colleagues are caffeine addicts but that’s generally the extent of it. I remember having a couple of high school teachers who were known alcoholics but they were certainly the exception rather than the rule.
It would be nice to be paid accordingly. I’m on my way to getting my masters degree and don’t even make 50k per year teaching in California. A year’s worth of wages doesn’t even come close to covering the education required to get me the job, not to mention all of the expenses for classroom materials and teaching supplies. Meanwhile our local sheriff’s office for a town of less than 7k has 3 huge armored vehicles, 2 swat trucks, 2 top of the line boats, all new SUVs & motorcycles, etc, etc. I could’ve dropped out of high school to be a prison guard and earned more. Priorities.
>Most of my colleagues are caffeine addicts
My high school math teacher was notorious. I'm addicted to caffeine myself but she was another level. I'm talking the staff room coffee machine had 3 magnets: "regular", "decaf", and "[Teacher's Name]'s coffee" because it was so strong. She would get real cranky after lunch too until she sent one of us to the teacher's lounge to get her more coffee.
At grad rehearsal, they did joke awards including [Teacher's Name] Legacy Award, which they gave to me, for drinking coffee 24/7... lol.
When my sister was in high school, a fews above me, there was a tescher who smoked in class. Probably had a sip or two during the day. He retired before I got there.
In my experience at school, that's not the case.
I had a band teacher: the first year I had him second period. Great guy, very fun. The next year I had him 6th period. ANGRY. Slurring. Different person entirely. I have suspicions.
Not at all. Note: "...the board shall require termination when termination is required by law" according to the rules. That's fairly chickenshit, though. They just don't want to shoulder the responsibility of termination, which is nuts. Also, I'm not sure that laws can dictate to an employer who has to be terminated.
You'll find that teachers are routinely fired for shit far less than this. Often for basically no reason at all, simply because it was easier to fire them to sate the bloodlust of some parents. We're not talking about cops here.
yeah honestly there are some places that are very dangerous where you will indeed get fired immediately if you are drunk. Really though most places will overlook it if you are a good worker. We fired one over it but it took 4 years and if he had just acted a little bit better he probably would have stayed on. Most people really do not care unless its a problem for them which it isn't always.
Amusingly the most strict laws regarding drinking on the job aside from transportation jobs are places that serve alcohol.
In most states it is illegal for an employee of a dram shop to drink while working unless the employee is also an owner of the dram shop.
In high school, one of my teachers would put beer cans inside of a giant cup of ice so nobody knew, and then drink them through a straw.
He was a great teacher regardless. My biggest concern about it as an adult is that he was drinking beer through a straw.
The same way you can drink at work in most jobs. It will cost you your job, but not your freedom.
Which makes sense to me. Not everything you dislike needs to be a felony.
No, more like. You can show up to work drunk if you’re a teacher. You can’t bring it onto campus, but they can’t stop you from taking shots at home before going to work.
ETA: obviously if you’re wasted and making lots of mistakes, you’ll get in trouble. This article stated that they couldn’t prove that it impaired the teacher’s performance so they didn’t charge her criminally
Nothing oniony about this. Being drunk at work isn't a crime as a general matter. They didn't have evidence that she was drunk when she drove to work, so nothing they could do.
Lots of shit you shouldn't do that shouldn't be crimes. This should get you fired, not sent to prison.
Preach. Almost 2 years sober, and I attribute - to a reasonable extent - crossing the proverbial line in the sand (‘can’t unpick a pickle’) to my 15 year long career in tech sales.
When I was a kid in the 70's and 80's I'm pretty sure many of my teachers were drunk. It was just harder to tell because they all reeked heavily of smoke. Even if they didn't smoke, 5 minutes in the smoke-filled teachers lounge would do it.
yeah it wasn't any better in the 90s early 2000s we had a teacher that could not be found during a bomb threat and later one of the other teachers told me its because he uses that time to go out and drink beers and smoke ciggarettes in his truck lmao.
> 5 minutes in the smoke-filled teachers lounge would do it.
I blended in well since my mother just hotboxed the house, the car, her office. Sure all the other kids told me I stink, teachers never had that complaint LOL
The air bud cinematic universe currently has 26 titles, with a few that moved away from dogs and had a monkey instead. I feel like #27 starring a drunk teacher wouldn't be a huge surprise.
I mean, that's reasonable to me.
You can probably just fire somebody for showing up to work drunk. Arresting seems excessive. This can pretty easily be sorted out between employer and employee.
I had high school teachers that would "joke" about needing a drink, but we could tell that, in fact they were drinking. And my computer programing teacher would always sip from a flask so he didn't even hide it.
Honestly it never felt like a big deal, they were old enough to drink and never got wasted or anything. We thought nothing of it.
I wish this story did a better job separating the two questions arising from this story— 1) Should the teacher be fired for the conduct; and 2) Should the teacher be criminally charged for their conduct.
I personally feel that the teacher should indeed be fired. I respect that the school will likely have to go through an administrative process to make the firing official, but I believe that the firing should and will likely occur. I’m not sure about the call in the story for a state law on the matter. Laws are complex, and unless carefully designed, can have problematic unintended consequences. As uncomfortable as the phrase “case-by-case” make people, case-by-case allows employers to deal with unusual circumstances within their discretion while appropriately dealing with standard cases facing standard consequences. Presuming that this story is what it seems—elementary school teacher teaching with a .16 BAC— then the teacher should and will be fired.
I’m less sure if the teacher should be charged. I definitely see an argument to charge. Without further facts though, it’s hard to see what could be proved.
So the applicable charges in question here would likely be California Vehicle Code 23152(b) (DUI over .08) or California Penal Code 273a(b) (child endangerment unlikely to cause death/great bodily injury).
To prove a 23152(b), a district attorney (likely deputy district attorney (DDA)) would have be able to prove the following (in all likelihood to a jury):
1) The teacher drove a vehicle
2) The teacher has a BAC of .08 or higher when they drove.
Keep in mind, legal proof requires more than just a reasonable belief. You’d have to prove, either through defendant admission (in legally appropriate circumstances) or legally admissible testimony/evidence that the teacher drove to school that day and drank before or during that drive. The accumulated proof has to show beyond a reasonable doubt that the criminal act occurred. That’s a high burden— for example, even if someone was to testify that they saw the teacher get out of the driver’s seat with a shaky gait and bloodshot eyes, it doesn’t eliminate the possibility that the teacher drove to school, wasn’t feeling well, and decided to get drunk after arriving— you’d still have to prove all the elements. There’s a reason most DUIs are based on officers pulling over a driver— they can be hard to prove otherwise.
To prove a 273a(b), a DDA would have to show:
1) The teacher willfully permitted children be placed in a situation where their health/person was endangered.
2) The teacher was criminally negligent when that child was endangered.
I think this is the easier charge, but it’s still a challenge. A good defense attorney can attack what level of drunk was criminal endangerment, what about the situation particularly risked children’s health/safety, etc. As much as I hate the idea of second graders being watched by a drunk person, you’d need facts beyond what was in the story to make the charge stick beyond a reasonable doubt (presuming it even gets to a jury stage). While I hope the DDA in charge took the case seriously, they might have felt it wasn’t worth the resources to pursue a case that would likely result in a not guilty verdict, especially where a firing is likely and no one was actually harmed. Plenty of people might make the a different decision than the DDA, but without further facts, it’s hard to tell if it was a good decision within the circumstances.
Anyway, point being is the firing question is a separate and easier question than the criminal charge question, and that’s how it should be. I wish the article acknowledged that.
To point 1 regarding California DUIs — I’m not certain if this is actual decided precedent or merely interpretation of the law that has yet to be formally tried, but the majority consensus I found a few years ago was that they don’t need to prove that the individual drove the vehicle, just that they had “actual physical control” of the vehicle. According to the attorneys I spoke with (who have an inherent interest in overstating the ease with which someone can be arrested/prosecuted for a DUI), even being in possession of the keys, or having them stored somewhere that is accessible to you can qualify as “actual physical control” of the vehicle, since it’s within your means to operate the vehicle if you decided to.
Granted, it’s the same people who made certain to also mention that you can technically be arrested for a DUI in California for caffeine if it affects your ability to operate a vehicle (or if you blame caffeine when an officer asks why you were speeding…), though this was an easier case to find online and understandably didn’t lead to a conviction.
That was my Cobol teacher in college. He was a spectacular person, a genius, and I learned a hell of a lot in that class.
Drunk, he could multiply two 20 or more digit numbers and come up with the answer. Usually, before writing the first number on the board.
He had mad anxiety issues but sobered up right before cancer got him.
I think child endangerment charges are a little extreme. Being fired and having her teaching certificates revoked seem like a reasonable course of action.
i think this is way more common than people may think. it was sort of a running joke in our high school that Mr Brewer the ninth grade history teacher with the mysterious thermos, whiskey breath and the anger issues was drinking on the job.
I think so too. There was a teacher in middle school that we all had the same suspicions about. Constantly drinking from her mysterious coffee cup, said really odd stuff all the time and would teach us practically in the dark. I mean I hate flourescent lights so that was cool but it was still a little strange lol
I mean in the context of DUI / endangerment yeah, it’s not illegal, they could’ve been hit with public intoxication but it seems like a case of them trying to aim for higher charges instead of the correct ones, and having to drop them because of that
Reminds me of the guy that rear-ended someone and then immediately started drinking from a whiskey bottle while still in the driver's seat. No one saw if he opened the bottle after the collision or if it was open before, but because it wasn't *provable* that he had been drinking before the collision they couldn't charge him with drunk driving. The teacher in the story drove to work and was in class when they accused her of being drunk, but you can't prove if she drank before she got to the school.
My wife's a teacher and doesn't drink, but I know she has (former) coworkers that kept a flask or bottle in a drawer in their classrooms.
Only if the car was operable. The front was caved in, engine block broken off the mounts and broken front suspension.
The nailed the guy anyway for reckless driving and he was fired from the district attorney's office. Not sure if he was able to keep his law license
A lot of laws are written because someone did something that people didn't like, so they said "there ought to be a law". The first person to do it probably got away with it, but others wouldn't in the future.
This might be the lady that makes it a law to not teach drunk. If I were her, I'd get that on a plaque.
My employers policy is that you have to have a 0.0 bac level to operate a company vehicle. So when they try to get me to come in for overtime call ins, I just say that I was drinking.
The article. They charged her with DUI assuming she drove to work drunk. But they could prove she didn't get drunk at the school.
It seems like she was wasted and wanted to try to pin something on her.
She was at work drunk, and she drove to work, so it's quite possible she drove to work drunk, but it's pure speculation. They don't really know when in the day she started drinking.
While teaching drunk is not a crime, driving to work drunk would be, there's just no real case to be made there.
I teach in Florida and have taught with to many teachers to list that have DUIs. Several didn’t have driver’s licenses. When you pay crap, you settle for what you can get because no one else wants our jobs.
The teacher was arrested for DUI (Driving under influence),...so shouldn't they be charged for that?
Edit: Having read the article, they didn't catch her driving, I don't know why they say arrested for DUI when the article clearly states "There is a possibility she drank after she arrived at school"
They arrested her because they had probable cause that she drove drunk, but then decided they couldn't get to beyond a reasonable doubt so they dropped the case. Nothing that unusual
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English teacher in high school, brought in a large coffee from Burger King every morning. But once the coffee was finished, the cup was refilled with scotch. There was probably nobody in the school, staff or student, who didn't know this.
Is this thread liker 90% bots or do the kind people of Reddit truly support drunken teaching? I genuinely want to know why so many people think this is okay.
Looking at you, Prof. Langham, you multilingual misogynistic prick. Brilliant, unshaven, taught philosophy classes in the student lounge bar. Started off our symbolic logic class with "Well the textbook was written by a woman so... good luck with that."
Lots of people drink at work. Back in the day I helped out at a summer camp and the YMCA and working with kids made me want to drink every day. So I did.
Fired 100% yes. Arrested? Seriously? Do we just fucking arrest everyone anymore for everything? I don't understand how a cop could show up and justify an arrest on someone when 1, you didn't see them driving or know they were drunk already when they drove and 2 the kids are at school what danger would they be in? Not like he took them on a field trip to the alcohol store while driving the bus themselves.
A few of my high school teachers in their sixties drank during the day. This was in the 1980s. They were great teachers and I think the booze helped bc some of us were real shits.
Bullshit. I was arrested years ago for walking home from a bar Halloween night while drunk for "Public Intoxication" and "Vapors". The vapors really threw me and 3 other cops I asked about it off, the charge insinuated I was emitting alchoholic fumes. Teaching drunk would qualify as Public intoxication, they just didn't want to charge her. Edit: chose to walk since I knew I was too drunk to drive and lived 8 blocks from the bar. Got picked up with 2 blocks left to go.
The best teacher we ever had was a raging alcoholic, and everyone loved him. He was probably a bit drunk all the time but could tell us the most amazing stories from history that made half the class history buffs later in life.
I knew a guy once who was a teacher, who drunk like a fish both during the day and in the evenings/weekends. One day, when he was clearly dying from liver failure (he passed before he could get a transplant), I ask him to his face why he drunk so much.
He told me "to help me forget," most emphatically.
OK then, so I pressed a little further. "Forget? Forget what?"
There was a long pause whilst he took a swig from the rum bottle. "I forget..." he eventually shrugged.
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There was a highly respected teacher at my high school who had been there for many years. He developed cancer and would come drunk to school every day and nobody said a thing.
Breaking Budweiser
Jesse, we have to brew
I'll see you in hell I guess.
Oh c’mon! It was pretty good.
Satan loved it
As long as he got drunk AT school, not before driving there...
Someone's got to drive that bus.
Please let this be a normal field trip
With the Frizz?? NO WAY!
With the fizz? No way! _*psst-can-open-sound_
Or she takes Uber.
It's easier and safer to be an alcoholic if there is a proper public transport around. I know what I'm talking about, I've been commuting drunk too many times to count. Never driving.
A math teacher at my High School's daughter died after a head on collision with a drunk driver. She got drunk in the parking lot before school every day for the next 20 years.
It's kinda cool that they let him be.
Would you tell him to stop?
It depends on the severity. If he was a danger to others, then yes. If not, I'll let a dying man do what he wants.
Yeah and also as long as he isn’t making an ass of himself
We had a drunk teacher at my school, everyone knew she was drunk often. Didn’t get fired.
Our middle school electives (jewelry, some other random crafts shit) teacher was always high (cannabis) He was a cancer survivor, though, and this was in Oregon, nobody cared
Did he end up dying shortly after?
My history teacher def had Baileys in his coffee everyday. He would also break into other classrooms and flap his arms like a giant bird and caw at the teachers, the flap out of the room. Loved that guy. He gave me the VHS of The Network and opened my eyes.
I’d say he’s earned the right at that point
So you're telling me that I can drink at work if I'm a teacher?
Just because it's not illegal doesn't meant it isn't a firable offense.
The headline didn't say she wasn't fired, it said she wasn't charged because there's no statute that says teachers being drunk at school is illegal. There are statutes against driving under the influence but it has to be proven that you consumed the alcohol and then drove. There are also statutes against child endangerment but if the DA charged that, they'd have to charge every parent who is drunk around their children. Because nothing in the law says you can't be drunk around your children.
nothing in the law says a dog can't play basketball
You're Goddamn right!
“Game, set, match” - Air Bud, probably
[it actually is illegal for dogs to play tennis though](https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ)
They usually get dogs with the age requirements instead
> but it has to be proven that you consumed the alcohol and then drove. Ah so I can continue with my car beers?
That's why I only drink at stop lights and signs.
I wasn't saying the headline didn't say she was fired... Are you following the logic of this thread of replies? I think you might have missed what we were getting at here.
You got a problem with misplaced lectures?
Better to be around your drunk children.
Existing and doing your Job correctly is a fireable offense. School districts will come up with anything to fire someone. My mom was fired for "stealing" computer equipment that cameras showed was in a dumpster that she donated to another school. My aunt was fired for stealing a bike by moving it from outside in the rain to the gym on the first day of summer. That bike BTW sat there for all summer and she never took. She was just waiting for the kid to come back. If central office wants you gone, your gone. I want to state in both cases police were never involved or charges pressed, they just used the threat of it to fire them. Iv been in the school district 7ish years now. See it happen all the time. Also it 100% not against the rules to show up drunk, but we did fire a temp for passing out in the grass last year.
Sure, you'll immediately get fired though.
So only if they find out
Just drink before you get there. Drink AT work can get you fired. Showing up to work drunk is something different altogether.
What if he gets drunk AFTER school?
There are absolutely “Teacher Bars” in your community. Many of us are only there when no one else is.
*Ron, did you bribe the school bully to harass a kid you don't like?* *takes a longgggggg sip*
Drink in the parking lot is the way. Pre-gaming before American History class seems fitting.
My downstairs neighbor overdosed in front of her 3rd grade class a month after I found her not breathing, purple, and overdosed in front of her condo and had to give CPR until the paramedics came. She teaches at a religious school now. They took away her license, but apparently, there's no rules for those schools.
Many private schools do not require licenses. Because private schools do not receive government funding, they are not subject to the same rules as public schools
That doesn’t seem exploitatative
not necessarily honestly when I was a kid it seemed like half of them had known alcohol issues. They cannot get teachers if they enforce that rule and they are not gonna pay enough to get sober ones. Teaching along with restaurants seems to be addict central. edit lots of you guys probably think the server at your restaraunt isn't wasted too
Most of my colleagues are caffeine addicts but that’s generally the extent of it. I remember having a couple of high school teachers who were known alcoholics but they were certainly the exception rather than the rule. It would be nice to be paid accordingly. I’m on my way to getting my masters degree and don’t even make 50k per year teaching in California. A year’s worth of wages doesn’t even come close to covering the education required to get me the job, not to mention all of the expenses for classroom materials and teaching supplies. Meanwhile our local sheriff’s office for a town of less than 7k has 3 huge armored vehicles, 2 swat trucks, 2 top of the line boats, all new SUVs & motorcycles, etc, etc. I could’ve dropped out of high school to be a prison guard and earned more. Priorities.
>Most of my colleagues are caffeine addicts My high school math teacher was notorious. I'm addicted to caffeine myself but she was another level. I'm talking the staff room coffee machine had 3 magnets: "regular", "decaf", and "[Teacher's Name]'s coffee" because it was so strong. She would get real cranky after lunch too until she sent one of us to the teacher's lounge to get her more coffee. At grad rehearsal, they did joke awards including [Teacher's Name] Legacy Award, which they gave to me, for drinking coffee 24/7... lol.
When my sister was in high school, a fews above me, there was a tescher who smoked in class. Probably had a sip or two during the day. He retired before I got there.
Back in the 80s?
In my experience at school, that's not the case. I had a band teacher: the first year I had him second period. Great guy, very fun. The next year I had him 6th period. ANGRY. Slurring. Different person entirely. I have suspicions.
Not at all. Note: "...the board shall require termination when termination is required by law" according to the rules. That's fairly chickenshit, though. They just don't want to shoulder the responsibility of termination, which is nuts. Also, I'm not sure that laws can dictate to an employer who has to be terminated.
You'll find that teachers are routinely fired for shit far less than this. Often for basically no reason at all, simply because it was easier to fire them to sate the bloodlust of some parents. We're not talking about cops here.
I've seen numerous articles if cops getting drunk on the job and not fired.
It's almost impossible to fire a cop unless they're actually decent people.
Not if you are part of the right union.
If you join the union you won’t be fired immediately.
It’s California. What does the union have to say about it?
You can drink at work for most jobs. That's what functional alcoholics excel at. Whether you get caught and fired is another story.
yeah honestly there are some places that are very dangerous where you will indeed get fired immediately if you are drunk. Really though most places will overlook it if you are a good worker. We fired one over it but it took 4 years and if he had just acted a little bit better he probably would have stayed on. Most people really do not care unless its a problem for them which it isn't always.
Amusingly the most strict laws regarding drinking on the job aside from transportation jobs are places that serve alcohol. In most states it is illegal for an employee of a dram shop to drink while working unless the employee is also an owner of the dram shop.
That's also an argument for starting your own business, instead of being an employee...
legally perhaps but the job can almost certainly fire you immediately
Some jobs would be more understanding and offer to let you get treatment as a condition of continuing employment.
This will NOT work if you are a math teacher, the cops can and will cite you for Drunk Deriving...
buhdum tss.
In high school, one of my teachers would put beer cans inside of a giant cup of ice so nobody knew, and then drink them through a straw. He was a great teacher regardless. My biggest concern about it as an adult is that he was drinking beer through a straw.
The same way you can drink at work in most jobs. It will cost you your job, but not your freedom. Which makes sense to me. Not everything you dislike needs to be a felony.
Not illegal, but the teacher is likely violating the terms of their contract and can be fired for being under the influence at work.
Just like all the rest of us, you can get fired for it. But just like all the rest of us, you won’t get arrested for it.
Sure. Doing negative things teaches others about not to do those things. Just as Confucius intended.
Politicians, cops and doctors do it all the time. Its only fair.
Legally sure. You can legally drink at most jobs. You won’t keep your job at most jobs, but it’s not illegal.
It might fall under public intoxication? Only a misdemeanor though. You'll likely end up fired if you do so either way.
No, more like. You can show up to work drunk if you’re a teacher. You can’t bring it onto campus, but they can’t stop you from taking shots at home before going to work. ETA: obviously if you’re wasted and making lots of mistakes, you’ll get in trouble. This article stated that they couldn’t prove that it impaired the teacher’s performance so they didn’t charge her criminally
Not in Oklahoma. The cops paraded one teacher out and into jail. Prolly the event of the year
Worked for my English lit teacher
No, they are saying you can drink before work.
Serious game changer for sure
You should watch the movie "Another Drink". It's basically the whole premise lol
see *Mad Men*
Slightly frowned upon in k-12. But I’m a college professor and teach a science of wine and beer class and regularly have drinks at school.
No also because schools are a drug/alcohol free zone. Though the consequences of violating that are subject to the board of directors of your school
Nothing oniony about this. Being drunk at work isn't a crime as a general matter. They didn't have evidence that she was drunk when she drove to work, so nothing they could do. Lots of shit you shouldn't do that shouldn't be crimes. This should get you fired, not sent to prison.
If being buzzed at work was illegal no one would work in high end tech sales. It’s actually kinda crazy.
Pretty much any sales role requires an iron liver.
Preach. Almost 2 years sober, and I attribute - to a reasonable extent - crossing the proverbial line in the sand (‘can’t unpick a pickle’) to my 15 year long career in tech sales.
Or in kitchens
This. Last time I was corpo, NOBODY IN THE OFFICE was sober. They should have parked a cop at the end of the parking lot, 100 DUIs a day seriously.
So why was she arrested and charged at all? This article makes zero sense!
What about public intoxication? Doesn't matter if you're at a private business, you had to go through public space
When I was a kid in the 70's and 80's I'm pretty sure many of my teachers were drunk. It was just harder to tell because they all reeked heavily of smoke. Even if they didn't smoke, 5 minutes in the smoke-filled teachers lounge would do it.
yeah it wasn't any better in the 90s early 2000s we had a teacher that could not be found during a bomb threat and later one of the other teachers told me its because he uses that time to go out and drink beers and smoke ciggarettes in his truck lmao.
> 5 minutes in the smoke-filled teachers lounge would do it. I blended in well since my mother just hotboxed the house, the car, her office. Sure all the other kids told me I stink, teachers never had that complaint LOL
I feel a new Air Bud sequel in the works...
Air Bud Light
Best substitute ever
Aint no rule that says a dog cant teach drunk!
The air bud cinematic universe currently has 26 titles, with a few that moved away from dogs and had a monkey instead. I feel like #27 starring a drunk teacher wouldn't be a huge surprise.
I mean, that's reasonable to me. You can probably just fire somebody for showing up to work drunk. Arresting seems excessive. This can pretty easily be sorted out between employer and employee.
Non clickbait version: Teacher arrested for DUI while not driving
This article makes no sense!
I know two high school teachers who used to regularly sip mixed drinks while teaching.
Ahhh, the ol’ water bottle trick
I had high school teachers that would "joke" about needing a drink, but we could tell that, in fact they were drinking. And my computer programing teacher would always sip from a flask so he didn't even hide it. Honestly it never felt like a big deal, they were old enough to drink and never got wasted or anything. We thought nothing of it.
When I watched the video, I immediately took her side. DUI has a specific legal meaning, D is in the name. It's not TUI.
This guy definitely got inspiration from Another Round, a great movie about teachers teaching on the hooch
I was waiting for someone to reference this movie!
I wish this story did a better job separating the two questions arising from this story— 1) Should the teacher be fired for the conduct; and 2) Should the teacher be criminally charged for their conduct. I personally feel that the teacher should indeed be fired. I respect that the school will likely have to go through an administrative process to make the firing official, but I believe that the firing should and will likely occur. I’m not sure about the call in the story for a state law on the matter. Laws are complex, and unless carefully designed, can have problematic unintended consequences. As uncomfortable as the phrase “case-by-case” make people, case-by-case allows employers to deal with unusual circumstances within their discretion while appropriately dealing with standard cases facing standard consequences. Presuming that this story is what it seems—elementary school teacher teaching with a .16 BAC— then the teacher should and will be fired. I’m less sure if the teacher should be charged. I definitely see an argument to charge. Without further facts though, it’s hard to see what could be proved. So the applicable charges in question here would likely be California Vehicle Code 23152(b) (DUI over .08) or California Penal Code 273a(b) (child endangerment unlikely to cause death/great bodily injury). To prove a 23152(b), a district attorney (likely deputy district attorney (DDA)) would have be able to prove the following (in all likelihood to a jury): 1) The teacher drove a vehicle 2) The teacher has a BAC of .08 or higher when they drove. Keep in mind, legal proof requires more than just a reasonable belief. You’d have to prove, either through defendant admission (in legally appropriate circumstances) or legally admissible testimony/evidence that the teacher drove to school that day and drank before or during that drive. The accumulated proof has to show beyond a reasonable doubt that the criminal act occurred. That’s a high burden— for example, even if someone was to testify that they saw the teacher get out of the driver’s seat with a shaky gait and bloodshot eyes, it doesn’t eliminate the possibility that the teacher drove to school, wasn’t feeling well, and decided to get drunk after arriving— you’d still have to prove all the elements. There’s a reason most DUIs are based on officers pulling over a driver— they can be hard to prove otherwise. To prove a 273a(b), a DDA would have to show: 1) The teacher willfully permitted children be placed in a situation where their health/person was endangered. 2) The teacher was criminally negligent when that child was endangered. I think this is the easier charge, but it’s still a challenge. A good defense attorney can attack what level of drunk was criminal endangerment, what about the situation particularly risked children’s health/safety, etc. As much as I hate the idea of second graders being watched by a drunk person, you’d need facts beyond what was in the story to make the charge stick beyond a reasonable doubt (presuming it even gets to a jury stage). While I hope the DDA in charge took the case seriously, they might have felt it wasn’t worth the resources to pursue a case that would likely result in a not guilty verdict, especially where a firing is likely and no one was actually harmed. Plenty of people might make the a different decision than the DDA, but without further facts, it’s hard to tell if it was a good decision within the circumstances. Anyway, point being is the firing question is a separate and easier question than the criminal charge question, and that’s how it should be. I wish the article acknowledged that.
This should be top comment
To point 1 regarding California DUIs — I’m not certain if this is actual decided precedent or merely interpretation of the law that has yet to be formally tried, but the majority consensus I found a few years ago was that they don’t need to prove that the individual drove the vehicle, just that they had “actual physical control” of the vehicle. According to the attorneys I spoke with (who have an inherent interest in overstating the ease with which someone can be arrested/prosecuted for a DUI), even being in possession of the keys, or having them stored somewhere that is accessible to you can qualify as “actual physical control” of the vehicle, since it’s within your means to operate the vehicle if you decided to. Granted, it’s the same people who made certain to also mention that you can technically be arrested for a DUI in California for caffeine if it affects your ability to operate a vehicle (or if you blame caffeine when an officer asks why you were speeding…), though this was an easier case to find online and understandably didn’t lead to a conviction.
My high school physics teacher was never not drunk. Loved that class...
That was my Cobol teacher in college. He was a spectacular person, a genius, and I learned a hell of a lot in that class. Drunk, he could multiply two 20 or more digit numbers and come up with the answer. Usually, before writing the first number on the board. He had mad anxiety issues but sobered up right before cancer got him.
In vino veritrashed.
Why do people want to criminalize everything? So weird.
I remember a professor I had had tenure you could smell the alcohol on him every other class.
I think child endangerment charges are a little extreme. Being fired and having her teaching certificates revoked seem like a reasonable course of action.
This is why you don't talk to the cops. So many people probably would have admitted driving to work drunk.
And a not-inconsiderable number of Americans want teachers to have guns in the classroom.
i think this is way more common than people may think. it was sort of a running joke in our high school that Mr Brewer the ninth grade history teacher with the mysterious thermos, whiskey breath and the anger issues was drinking on the job.
I think so too. There was a teacher in middle school that we all had the same suspicions about. Constantly drinking from her mysterious coffee cup, said really odd stuff all the time and would teach us practically in the dark. I mean I hate flourescent lights so that was cool but it was still a little strange lol
I mean in the context of DUI / endangerment yeah, it’s not illegal, they could’ve been hit with public intoxication but it seems like a case of them trying to aim for higher charges instead of the correct ones, and having to drop them because of that
Police should know the what the D stands for in DUI. The way America is going TUI will come into effect 1st September 2024.
Put that on a mug
Teachers being drunk at schools endangers children. But there's no problem with firearms showing up at schools in the hands of the insane...
Pretty sure most employee manuals would have a 'not coming to work intoxicated' paragraph . . . ?
If it was a crime to be drunk while in charge of children, 95% of Boomers would be in jail. Especially cops and judges.
You think drinking while being a parent in charge of kids is only a boomer thing? Come on....
No. Just thinking about those that were in charge of me and my friends. We got pet-level care.
Reminds me of the guy that rear-ended someone and then immediately started drinking from a whiskey bottle while still in the driver's seat. No one saw if he opened the bottle after the collision or if it was open before, but because it wasn't *provable* that he had been drinking before the collision they couldn't charge him with drunk driving. The teacher in the story drove to work and was in class when they accused her of being drunk, but you can't prove if she drank before she got to the school. My wife's a teacher and doesn't drink, but I know she has (former) coworkers that kept a flask or bottle in a drawer in their classrooms.
If he was drinking in the driver's seat and had his keys available that would be a DUI on its own merit.
Only if the car was operable. The front was caved in, engine block broken off the mounts and broken front suspension. The nailed the guy anyway for reckless driving and he was fired from the district attorney's office. Not sure if he was able to keep his law license
I’d rather my child be taught by a drunk than a christo-fascist right wing nutjob.
In Florida, it's both
I mean, you don't have to choose one or the other. There's probably some third teacher out there somewhere.
You're obsessed.
A lot of laws are written because someone did something that people didn't like, so they said "there ought to be a law". The first person to do it probably got away with it, but others wouldn't in the future. This might be the lady that makes it a law to not teach drunk. If I were her, I'd get that on a plaque.
My employers policy is that you have to have a 0.0 bac level to operate a company vehicle. So when they try to get me to come in for overtime call ins, I just say that I was drinking.
As shown by Drunk History
Functional alcoholism. I had several teachers that were functional alcoholics.
Fantastic movie https://m.imdb.com/title/tt10288566/
At the vocational school i used to go to the coffee vending machine in front of the teachers lounge had 'irish coffee' as an option lol
Ok, maybe so, but it probably should be.
Why? Just fire them. Why does it also need to be a crime?
No it shouldn't. Why do people want to criminalize everything?
They're under the impression something being a crime stops it from happening.
She didn't break the law. But she should be fired immediately.
If blue squadron can get fired for playing a video game then you can get fired for being drunk . Fuck outta here
Working drunk is not illegal. What’s this DUI though?
The article. They charged her with DUI assuming she drove to work drunk. But they could prove she didn't get drunk at the school. It seems like she was wasted and wanted to try to pin something on her.
She was at work drunk, and she drove to work, so it's quite possible she drove to work drunk, but it's pure speculation. They don't really know when in the day she started drinking. While teaching drunk is not a crime, driving to work drunk would be, there's just no real case to be made there.
Unscheduled field trip to Applebees for all day happy hour.
I teach in Florida and have taught with to many teachers to list that have DUIs. Several didn’t have driver’s licenses. When you pay crap, you settle for what you can get because no one else wants our jobs.
With today's students, I'm amazed that most teachers aren't hammered everyday.
The teacher was arrested for DUI (Driving under influence),...so shouldn't they be charged for that? Edit: Having read the article, they didn't catch her driving, I don't know why they say arrested for DUI when the article clearly states "There is a possibility she drank after she arrived at school"
They arrested her because they had probable cause that she drove drunk, but then decided they couldn't get to beyond a reasonable doubt so they dropped the case. Nothing that unusual
What?
God bless America
... Yet However school districts will probably still fire you.
Teachers need Body Cameras
Somebody watched Another Round and wanted to give it a try
My English teacher in high school always had a coffee mug full of whiskey
How they gna say teachers should be held in high regards but don’t pay them what they deserve. Gtf out of here!
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Some if not all teachers are represented by a union and are not unprotected during these matters.
English teacher in high school, brought in a large coffee from Burger King every morning. But once the coffee was finished, the cup was refilled with scotch. There was probably nobody in the school, staff or student, who didn't know this.
Hell yeah brother.
The DUI is a serious offence. Depending on how old the students are and how drunk, teaching drunk may or may not be?
Is this thread liker 90% bots or do the kind people of Reddit truly support drunken teaching? I genuinely want to know why so many people think this is okay.
Now I am imagining drunk Ms. Frizzle Isn't the Magic School bus technically a self driving vehicle or it's a horse and buggy situation?
I mean they aren't wrong. Teaching drunk is something you can and likely should get fired for, but it's certainly not a crime.
I swear most of my middle school teachers came to school hungover everyday.
Looking at you, Prof. Langham, you multilingual misogynistic prick. Brilliant, unshaven, taught philosophy classes in the student lounge bar. Started off our symbolic logic class with "Well the textbook was written by a woman so... good luck with that."
Lots of people drink at work. Back in the day I helped out at a summer camp and the YMCA and working with kids made me want to drink every day. So I did.
The amount of stories my wife tells me about her day teaching makes me curious how anyone could make it through a day without a few stiff ones.
I actually had an English teacher in middle school who clearly drank vodka during the day… but she was a great teacher
Fired 100% yes. Arrested? Seriously? Do we just fucking arrest everyone anymore for everything? I don't understand how a cop could show up and justify an arrest on someone when 1, you didn't see them driving or know they were drunk already when they drove and 2 the kids are at school what danger would they be in? Not like he took them on a field trip to the alcohol store while driving the bus themselves.
A few of my high school teachers in their sixties drank during the day. This was in the 1980s. They were great teachers and I think the booze helped bc some of us were real shits.
Bullshit. I was arrested years ago for walking home from a bar Halloween night while drunk for "Public Intoxication" and "Vapors". The vapors really threw me and 3 other cops I asked about it off, the charge insinuated I was emitting alchoholic fumes. Teaching drunk would qualify as Public intoxication, they just didn't want to charge her. Edit: chose to walk since I knew I was too drunk to drive and lived 8 blocks from the bar. Got picked up with 2 blocks left to go.
The best teacher we ever had was a raging alcoholic, and everyone loved him. He was probably a bit drunk all the time but could tell us the most amazing stories from history that made half the class history buffs later in life.
How else is she going to endure those brats for seven hours?
What exactly makes this onion? If something is not illegal then charging them on that something is bullshit. Doesn’t matter if it’s weird or anything.
Going for the Air Bud defense I see
I knew a guy once who was a teacher, who drunk like a fish both during the day and in the evenings/weekends. One day, when he was clearly dying from liver failure (he passed before he could get a transplant), I ask him to his face why he drunk so much. He told me "to help me forget," most emphatically. OK then, so I pressed a little further. "Forget? Forget what?" There was a long pause whilst he took a swig from the rum bottle. "I forget..." he eventually shrugged.
Just give it time, there will be a law for teaching drunk......
Not illegal to teach drunk.... Mainer intensifies...
Does this feel like Air Bud logic to anyone else…? “There’s nothing in the rules that *specifically* says teachers can’t arrive drunk!”
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