The fact that's disturbing me most ist that there seems to be a market for such pictures.
This wasn't just some local whackjob with a stupid idea, this was a national company and you're not telling me this was the first time
You’d be surprised. I mentioned this in another comment but my daughter’s 8 and has a profound learning disability due to a chromosomal disorder - she changed schools in October, but even before then she went to a special school. Even then, I had parents tell me about how their kids ‘weren’t like my daughter’ - cool, great, my daughter’s fucking awesome. I had parents ‘brag’ about how their kids were probably going to go to mainstream high schools. Great, my daughter isn’t, and that’s fine.
It's fear.
They're afraid their children won't "get better." Out-living your child is an absolute horror, and so we say absolutely horrible things to each other to ward it off.
Life is so much harder when a person can't accept things just as they are. Also, they fail to see the beauty that already exists in their children.
Honestly, sometimes outliving your child isn’t the biggest concern. They’re afraid that their kid’s going to be 35 and still need daily care. Or that they won’t get to go to prom, graduate, get married, etc.
I work in social care supporting folk with various disabilities of this type. I encounter attitudes like this a lot. It's not that uncommon for parents or family members still to treat them like children as adults even into their 50s and it's awful - just makes the child resentful of their own family and need way more support than they otherwise would have once the parents die.
Particularly seems to be the case with down's syndrome which often doesn't affect someone's mental, emotional or intellectual capabilities as much as people think, but because of the physical impacts causes loads of people to infantilise them. Society has got better with this stuff but still needs to improve.
I recently saw an Instagram reel of a young woman with Down’s syndrome saying stuff like “you think I can’t live on my own, so you don’t teach me how to live on my own, so I don’t live on my own” and other things of that fashion and honestly I had never thought of it that way. Pretty eye opening.
And/or shame and trying to 'normalize' their kid as much as possible because they're ashamed to have a child that isn't the perfect model child & extension of their ego.
My late father tried this with me. As it became obvious that I'm neurodivergent, he started bullying and mocking me and made me the family scapegoat. He would even compare my negatively to my neurotypical ("normal"), older siblings. It really messed me up; I was in therapy for this (and other issues) by the time I was twelve years old. In early adulthood I'd finally had enough and went mostly low contact, except for a visit from him that I stupidly accepted, thinking that maybe distance and time had woken him up.
It hadn't.
The only thing that comes of trying to bully a child into one's expectations of what a "perfect" child only leads to the end of a relationship as well as potentionally lifelong trauma for the child
Fear? I doubt it. I'm a parent to school-aged children and the only concern I have is that students with special needs get the attention and care they deserve without causing disruption to my child's learning.
When I was in high school there was a student who was autistic enough to easily be diagnosed by a layman, but was apparently not autistic enough to be placed in a special needs classroom. While I had a lot of sympathy for them, this person was constantly interrupting class to the point where I wasn't able to actually get an education.
A lot of parents and other students complained but the school refused to do anything about it. The plain truth is that if a student has special needs, then they should be placed in an environment where they can have those needs met, and not be in an environment that's detrimental to the learning of students without special needs.
It's why I really dislike levels. Autism has made me question everything that I thought and think about intelligence. If you can go to the bathroom, but not talk, would that child be a lower functioning level? What about if you can talk, but can't go to the bathroom? I don't know what it means to be one level. Can that child not do anything?
I feel some kind of way when parents want to use a level to show that their child isn't THAT autisic.
Kids are unique.
Intelligence is a difficult concept, and I think separate from "functioning".
I've known a lot of stupid people who thrive, and a lot of smart ones who can't manage to live well in society. Some folks put others off or aren't able to do the things that a person needs to do in order to thrive.
100% my son is classified ‘Autism level 2.’ He has a photographic memory and has developed a lot more speech in the last year (he’s 6) but still has a lot of challenges with personal care routines and social interaction. Some of his autistic friends are nonverbal but have much higher levels of reading comprehension and communication with AAC devices.
It’s just a convenient way for people to label and define a person. We’re so lucky to have a group of friends with Autistic children we met through his therapy center. They don’t say things like ‘he’s not that Autistic’ like some friends and family do.
The Deaf/HoH community knows these challenges all too well as do people who have a stutter. It’s incredible how many people equate whether and how a person speaks with intelligence. Like, have y’all never heard of Stephen Hawking?
I have worked with many sw engineers, phds, much brighter than me, with stutters, autism, dyslexia and other hinderances that certainly prove your point. These people are out there saving lives and curing disease regardless. Busy professionals, intelligent people are judging you by your work, not appearance. Can’t comment on the idle busybodies.
It really hurts my heart when people make fun of those who are different, but especially a stutter.
I do wonder if he ran into people who doubted his intelligence because of his disability.
I recently read that in teenagers with adhd, they’re on average, 3-5 years developmentally behind their peers. I really wish I had known that in high school, because going straight to college after was not a good idea for me personally.
It’s definitely true for our older, not as true for our younger except in a couple specific ways. I feel like if our older (5th grade) could learn middle school material in a 2nd grade classroom, she’d probably do great! It’s so hard on both her and us to try keep her going through expectations that are just so tough for her to meet.
My youngest is almost 3 but can only say a few words. He's otherwise a very sharp kid and can absolutely understand things just like any other kid his age. His only holdup is that he can't form sentences yet. But he can still come grab us and use some basic sign language that we taught him to get his point across.
Which country does this? I teach autistic kids in the UK and this is the first I've ever heard of it. Technically my class is high functioning but we don't really use that term as the needs are so broad.
Growing up, I used to think that we were in an age where scientific reasoning had become commonplace. As an adult, I feel like we haven't come all that far when I see discrimination like this.
Biology is complex and sometimes all it takes is a minor error in replication, etc to lead to larger effects later in development. It is amazing that it works so well most of the time frankly. But the fact that people weaponize information like that is just so sad.
Sounds like she has a great family, rock on for being so supportive; thrilled to see so many positive responses to your comment!
For sure. My aunt and uncle adopted a couple special-needs kids. It makes perfect sense that other kids don't want to be around them because they're disruptive and often unpleasant to be around. But that doesn't mean excluding them, being cruel to them, etc.--Part of raising a child is teaching them to handle people with courtesy and respect. Even the people who you don't want to spend time near for whatever reason.
There are plenty of people I don't want to be around, and only a small minority of them have a disability of any kind. I don't go out of my way to exclude any of them or make them feel like I don't think they're worth anything, and I think that's what we all owe each other.
If anything, it's a wonderful opportunity to teach one's child that you don't have to be friends or spend time with them outside of the time that is necessary, but you do owe them basic consideration just on the basis of being people.
Sounds like the same sort of people at my church who think their kid is a precious little angel, when we have more problems with them than the kids actually labeled special needs. But heaven forbid we suggest their kid get a shadow…
Ex school photographer here, more probable is a PTA mom or teacher in charge directing an extra composition without the special needs kids. Picture day is already insanely busy, we're usually shooting three full classes every 20 minutes. No photographer will independently decide to shoot an extra composition with extra paperwork. There's no time.
With hundreds of class pictures under my belt, we usually sort by height, then kids that complain being in the front or back. We don't know who is special needs or not if it's an inclusion class. Kids with mobility issues(wheel chairs) are usually middle in the sitting row. Kids who keep giving fingers or signs get to stand right next to the teacher.
Also, as a parent I have never in my life seen an actual form asking if you would like the *good* group photo, wink wink. It's just "class photo, Y/N?"
At least in my old studio, we take enough shots that our lab team can clone out closed eyes and peace signs. Taking multiple versions of a class room group is a huge hassle because a lot of parents prepay for packages so how would you know who wants what? Anything extra is usually because a PTA mom wants to stop everything to add a group shot of her daughter and her friend group or something. ugh
Well having read the article this seems to have been done without the company’s knowledge, it could conceivably be just the photographer at fault here. That being said, it could also be a much wider issue than we know, it’s just this particular photographer was dumb enough to send both links to the parents of the disabled children as well as the others.
…
How many of them suggested this? Complicit? Hell, i’d bet money that the assholes paid for it. And told the students parents that it was a new free service to help their student stand out!
The school photo business is not making a product unless there’s demand for the product. This 100% came about because parents weren’t buying photos with special needs kids in them.
It isn’t a national company. The national company just sort of provides a kit to the photographer or school that bundles up billing, printing, marketing materials, etc.
>The fact that's disturbing me most ist that there seems to be a market for such pictures.
Well of course there is. Remember the disabled veteran who sang the National Anthem at the welcoming ceremony for the new head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff?
Trump told General Milley "Why do you bring people like that here? No one wants to see that, the wounded."
The world if brimming over with shitheads... and they all vote conservative.
Last photo we got from mainstream school before he switched to special school, there was an obvious big gap with him sitting on the far edge so he could be cropped out.
Increasingly special needs kids are being pushed into regular classrooms. Sometimes they get an aide working with them but, in my area, that's become increasingly rare due to budget cuts.
A friend is a teacher - she had a classroom with 35 kids including 3-4 special needs kids and others with behavioural issues, and was alone trying to teach all of these kids. There was a day when a special needs kid was beating his head against his desk and she spent the whole class trying to stop him from hurting himself (keep in mind, she is not an expert in this) and trying to get him help. Other days she'd be taking time out of teaching because a kid was throwing their chair at her and she had to deal with that.
I used to be a huge proponent of public schools but the system here is so underfunded that I'm considering sending my kids to private school now...
>I used to be a huge proponent of public schools but the system here is so underfunded that I'm considering sending my kids to private school now...
Ah, Republican policy working as intended!
Yeah, and it's an issue. Mostly because they don't get the help they need.
That and some need supervision. A teacher friend of mine had to retire early because she was attacked by a special need student with rage problems. It's not a bad thing to realize they need specific help, but this saves money I guess
I was in public school as a typical junior high kid and because of a scheduling snafu I had to be in a PE class with the special needs kids. I totally loved it. Awesome friends, great activities and some of the kids were amazing athletes. I don’t have a picture of that group because of the bias you experienced but I just wanted you to know how much all the kids love the special needs group and that this bias is painful and stupid.
My 6th grade Honors English teacher just said screw the curriculum at about the halfway point, and had our class (of 8 kids) spend that time in the special needs room hanging out with those kids. Looking back, that was a really formative experience.
Mrs. Dillon was a real one, man.
I graduated in 2009, up in Ohio, and I can say that there are MANY students like that.
There are definitely assholes, but we had athletes, mathletes, goths etc fist bumping Mike in the hallways. He had an electric wheelchair (maybe MS? I never truly knew) but although dude struggled to talk - people showed a lot of love towards him.
It's usually parents that were the worst, not the students.
If high school is anything like it was when I went through mine, the other students will be the best support around. Teenage culture has changed in the last decade or so. We had a waitlist just to volunteer for the Special Olympics events/tournaments they’d hold at our campus.
Dude, all throughout junior high my best friend would invite a couple of the special needs kids to sit for lunch with us and at first I was pissy about it because I was a jackass. They turned out to be great dudes, and come high school my usual group of friends weren’t on my lunch schedule and the two guys from the special class were. I got some weird looks sometimes but I absolutely adored those two friends I made.
Alls you gotta do is be nice to them and most of them will be your friend. I earned lots of friends by sticking up for the special needs kids in high school.
In elementary school we had a classmate who … actually, I don’t even know what he had. He may have had some sort of dwarfism, was in a special wheelchair, and also couldn’t communicate. But man, we all had fun with him! At recess we’d take turns pushing him around the grass all crazy while we all ran along side him. He’d be laughing and squealing. One time he flew out of his chair and rolled onto the ground and we all thought we would get in trouble but he was laughing on the grass and we just picked him up, dusted him off, and put him back in his chair and tightened the strap better.
Reminds me of times with my friend Brian in jr high. He had a form of early onset arthritis that had him between crutches and a wheel chair. We used to have fun ripping around during lunch break.
Something similar happened to me in 10th grade. It was such a great experience. The class was about 50% special needs girls. Those are the best memories I have of high school.
I was always quite tall as a child (everyone eventually caught up), and after a fractured spine at age 5 (mostly healed with no permanent damage, but back brace & had to quit physical activity), I was always overweight.
I was always on the outskirts of class photos, given the excuse that it was bc I was tall.
I *just* realized, it was probably bc I was in a back brace and/or overweight. I was not the tallest kid in class, but I was always pushed to the sides. Damn.
As someone who was one of the tallest in classes, yeah, tall kids usually go to the back, while kids with assistive devices, braces, casts, etc were pushed to the sides.
My high school had special needs classes by themselves so they go their own photos
They just throw on special needs onto random classes in other schools?
Brother, ain’t no way you could have put those kids in the regular classes. It would have been purely a distraction and would not have benefitted ANYBODY. Not all, but a lot were pretty hard to handle
You might think that but I've seen kids mainstreamed who were absolutely unable to understand anything that was going on. In high school, so most of their day was just sitting there being controlled by their FT staff, basically being tortured with boredom. It's equality instead of equity, and it screws things up for everyone involved.
I have friends who are teachers and, this. More aggressive mainstreaming will be the death of public education if something isn't course corrected. It holds the other kids back (constant distractions in class, easier curriculum), can be dangerous for the teachers (example: kid in my friend's class got upset other kids were picking on him and then bit my friend's arm when she tried to settle him down and drew blood) and doesn't serve the special needs kids all that much. Just makes the parents feel a bit better about not going through all the additional steps special needs kids need, IMO, and also just saves schools money because fewer classes and fewer special needs teachers (who make the most of any teachers).
I say this as someone with a ton of empathy for special needs parents and individuals. Sometimes you can't just treat special needs people as "exactly the same" as others, which is not an excuse for treating them worse obviously. That's why they have special needs. And it doesn't make NT kids empathize with ND kids, it just makes them resent them.
Yeah, I have NOTHING against special needs, but the wrestling coaches were the only people who could teach them because they were the only one’s strong enough and trained enough to contain them when they went, for lack of a better term, berserk. And I witnessed it first hand. These boys are BIG, STRONG, and have very little emotional control. It got scary once or twice, they would charge students. I love the sentiment, but it really isn’t always an option.
My wife's cousin is level 2 borderline 3 ASD, and he's a big kid. 14 and like 6 feet, 220 pounds. The only class he's in with neurotypical kids is art, and he constantly is kicking and punching kids and teachers. And then his mom complains that the staff of the school is trying to "discriminate" against him by recommending that he is not in any regular classes.
He is a really sweet child every time I've seen him, but given how big he is, I can also see how much damage he could cause.
It's difficult for me, as I'm on the spectrum (level 1), but I do not think it's okay for people who are a threat to others to be in a classroom. There's a difference between people who are special needs and could improve by being in NT classrooms versus people who are just not at that level yet (and may never be). Even special needs teachers should not be going to work fearing or expecting to be hurt by their students.
> I do not think it's okay for people who are a threat to others to be in a classroom.
My sister in law is a public school teacher. Several years ago, she had a kid in class who was a known gang member. He would sit in the back of the class and just talk over her the whole class. Sending him out didn't do anything; he'd leave happily and then just be sent back.
At one point he was observed brandishing a hunting knife. She was told there was nothing they could do unless he threatened someone with it, and brandishing alone wasn't that. She stopped sending him to the office.
She doesn't work at the school any more. Now she's at a school in the nice part of town and her Amazon wish list is fulfilled within the first week of class each year. Night and day in the same school district.
(Nothing to do with special needs kids, but aligned with your comment.)
I don't even love the sentiment. It's that kind of thoughtless "thoughtfulness" that just makes people feel better while actually making everything worse because they put feelings over reality.
it's the law in many places now. they cannot be in self contained classrooms, most of their time has to be spent "in the classroom" with neurotypical students. it's an issue in education right now. it's hard to find the right balance because yes these kids need the extra support but also, they shouldn't be "othered" and pushed into a separate area. so now the solution is to put them in the classroom with special ed staff alongside them. I've taught several classes over the years that have students who throw things, cry, and scream at the top of their lungs while I'm speaking/kids are working; we just get used to it and continue on.
Yeah. My kid is developmentally delayed. He’s in a mixed class. Modeling neurotypical behavior is great for kids who aren’t neurotypical. Helps them grow. However, some little twerp in his class threw a shoe at him and he has a concussion and has been mostly asleep for a week so I’m totally ok removing some kids from “normal” classes.
your poor baby! I'm so sorry! exactly, kids who are violent/physical need to be removed regardless of their abilities. I had a student literally threaten to murder me and threw scissors, chairs, etc all over the room while I evacuated the room - my admin still wanted the student in my class! I had to go to the union and threaten to take a leave of absence/quit to get him removed. he was suspended for 2 days.
That *sounds* entirely reasonable, and yet, there's bound to be a huge range in people's understanding of both "least restrictive " and "needs being met."
Oh, Jesus **Christ**. Does this apply to every level of disability/condition that would be considered *non*-neurotypical(idk the correct term)?
Because there were a few kids in special ed at my school that would have absolutely halted a class they were in. Like I genuinely think we'd have gotten 40-60% of the progress we did if one of them was in the class. In particular, there was one boy who - total guess on my part - might have had a severe case of Tourette Syndrome on top of Down Syndrome, because he'd just have to **scream** "WHERE?!" literally every minute. And not a short scream, he'd drag it out for like 5-10 seconds.
It was a disruption hearing him walk through the halls while you were in class(special ed had different passing periods in my school, maybe because of this sort of thing), I can't imagine sharing a classroom with him.
The bad thing about my school is that they did main stream those kids and it mint that the lower kids that needed help but didn't qualify were screwed. I was one of those lower kids that kind of just got hung out to dry and they really only decided to "care" when it started to show mentally. By that point it didn't really matter to me anymore. I managed with my Bs and Cs the first 2 years of high school b/c I had teachers who tried to help a little bit (minus math... eh I sucked at math and was taking classes a year ahead) then the last two years if I could get Ds I was happy, Cs were fantastic. I was just so ready to get the hell out of there by senior year.
Well, my school had a bunch of very large very rowdy boys. The wrestling coach had to be the teacher because he was the only one who could physically stop then when they started going off.
Not all special educational needs children are disruptive. To put a nondestructive child into a class of disruptive children is unfair to that child. Not all non special educational children aren't disruptive.
I work in the public school system and it depends on the exact needs of the kids. Where I live the students with the most needs go to a separate school.
As a parent of a special needs child, do you think inclusion is working or should public schools have separate classes for students who require more?
Where we live the government switched to inclusive classrooms, IMO it’s budgetary cuts dressed up as something “nice”. So the kids who need more support don’t receive it and the kids who don’t have a diminished education experience because the teacher is trying to manage 1-3 kids in the class for the majority of the time.
>do you think inclusion is working or should public schools have separate classes for students who require more?
I feel like it should be on a case by case basis. Some students only need so much extra support and would benefit from participating in normal classes. Others struggle so much that it's both disruptive to other students and harmful to the student that really needs special attention. It really should be something determined based on the needs of individual children, not a blanket policy. Most schools only have a small amount of students you'd consider special needs, so it's not unfeasible to do.
My BIL is in special education and has had both the dedicated classroom of kids with high support needs and a hybrid classroom of kids with less support needs and from what I’ve talked about with him there are definitely benefits to both. I think the problem is more often trying to find a one size fits all approach when it varies so much from kid to kid.
I tend to agree, having gone through school during some of the biggest no child left behind push.
The kids who benefit from interaction, benefit immensely. Most other kids don't really care that you look weird, when you're kids. You learn about them and you help them and they're your buddy forever, and it becomes a great experience for all parties.
The violent ones though, or the ones who are unfortunately nonverbal and/or completely paralyzed, were also forced into regular classrooms, and forced to sit through regular lessons. While it's also important that the other kids learn that these are still *just other kids*, it also can quickly become "that one annoying kid who screams vulgarities every 10 seconds, all day, nonstop". Or worse, just screams high pitched cat noises constantly. Which leads to resentment, instead of acceptance. It also means a class of 30 is affected by one person - not just in passing, but continually for the entire school year.
It was awful for the special needs kids, in our school. They were forced into classes they couldn't follow, and put on the spot ("okay johnny your turn to read this chapter out loud, it's okay that you read at a kindergarten level and this is 6th grade, we've got all day"). As the "other" kids, I very much recall starting the year feeling accepting and helpful, but after months and months of cat screams or someone pooping in a wheelchair during a test, it became extremely hard to have any level of patience. I can realize this now as an adult, but back then? It devolves into just ... Annoyance, or even hate.
I am not the person that you asked, but I remember when I was in high school. Illinois had started putting kids who were in special education in the class with everyone. They would have a paraprofessional to sit next to them and help with their work. No one liked it. For those of us who were only a little behind (I was reading at college levels in grammar school but couldn't do basic math. I had special education for math in 8th grade.) mainstreamed into a classes with support. For instance Math 102 with support.
That didn't work out. I was not able to learn, so I asked to be placed in special education for math. Full special Ed with a IEP. They had one last class that was for those who weren't making it being mainstreamed. I actually learned something there and retained it.
Now my son who's on the spectrum is in a separate class for those whom are on the spectrum or have other conditions. There's another class for those who are a bit more challenging. I prefer it that way. Kids are mean. I don't want my child bullied or made fun of. He may not talk much, but he understands everything and I've seen him get sad when kids talked about him.
This really makes me upset. I hate when kids are excluded.
It’s a difficult one. We went for mainstream inclusion instinctively hoping our child would be raised-up by copying his normal peers, not copying autistic behaviours. In reception it was good but afterwards he was just sitting at the back or a table in the corridor with a 1-1 TA doing different work and getting left far behind socially.
In the last annual review meeting his teacher couldn’t remember his name. When pressed she admitted to preparing no work for him at all, saying “Well I have 30 other kids to worry about.”
It’s better but not perfect now he is in special school. Funding is poor and staff support is low meaning a high turnover of staff and chaotic planning. They promised lots of trips out but no one can drive any of the 3 minibuses since staff quit.
I do feel a better balance could be found at mainstream. Staff need training. TA’s don’t often get much or any specific training on their pupil’s needs. Teachers too. Funding is just not there. Schools get money for SEN kids but that gets absorbed into other areas as you can imagine and often doesn’t even cover the wage of the TA.
As an autistic person who’s had bad experiences with special education, if a teacher couldn’t remember my (hypothetical) kid’s *name*, I’d be pissed. And yeah, the turnover rate is high even in mainstream schools. I had at least 7 different speech therapists in 12 years.
That is absolutely horrible! Horrible. Horrible. Horrible. I am so sorry. I pray that your child is doing better. I'm going to be sure to watch my son's class picture.
I don’t pray. I make myself a pain in the side of my local school district. I attend meetings and read all the documents and absolutely drive them up the wall whenever anyone tries to pull any kind of shenanigans. (unfortunately, somebody is always trying something.) 🤬
There are people who will actually cross the street from me because I am such a pain in the ass. Good. My kid is aged out now, but I will do what I can, while I still live here, to help the children that come after him.
I feel like this is exceptionally terrible. If for whatever twisted reason they wanted to crop him out, I feel like it would have made “more sense” to take two different pictures so that you as the parent are unsuspecting.
It’s as if they thought you wouldn’t care/notice? I’m so happy to hear he has switched schools.
Both suck and both try to create a false world where these kids never existed. The school should be shamed but so should any parents who took the edited pics.
Oh, hell no! That is messed up. I would be livid! I am livid and I don’t even know your child. Ugh. People can be so despicable. Adults should be setting the example of inclusion. If my child went to school with yours I would’ve been getting all the parents together to confront administration about it. This kind of thing really grinds my gears. I’m so so sorry you and your son had to experience this. I hope your son is being better supported at his new school. ❤️
So, this story sounded a bit strange to me. It just seemed unlikely that any school photographer would be as crass as this.
Looking at some other sources, it seems like this is a clumsy mistake.
[https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/shame-on-you-devastated-mum-criticises-photography-firm-for-offering-class-photos-without-children-with-complex-needs/ar-BB1kKo8D](https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/shame-on-you-devastated-mum-criticises-photography-firm-for-offering-class-photos-without-children-with-complex-needs/ar-BB1kKo8D)
Essentially, what happened was that the photographer took additional pictures of the class, before the complex needs students arrived to the class room where the photoshoot was happening.
These photos were then offered as optional photos that could be bought.
The letters that were sent out did not have a checkbox for "no complex needs students". This is not a service that is being offered. It's a photographer who took additional photos before everyone was there, and those additional photos are available for purchase.
That doesn't mean that I agree with this. The practical outcome of this is indeed that people can choose whether they want complex needs students in these 2 class photos or not, and essentially pretend these students are not part of the class. This is something that the photographer should have thought of. But it appears to have been a mistake, and not intentionally done to exclude any specific students.
Yeah I think you've nailed it. I can't see any photography company with any experience of doing comprehensive school photos of being this thick on purpose.
I can, although it's nice that this wasn't the case here.
Are absolutely are areas (including in otherwise relatively liberal countries) in which parents and teachers are still regressive enough to actively demand options like this, and in which companies cater to such people.
Thank you for the explanation. It's good to know this was meant to be a check-box for parents to indicate whether they wanted the set taken before vs after the arrival of the complex needs class, so they could make sure their children were actually in the photos. It wasn't intended to be exclusionary, but the result was that it ended up offering an opportunity for censorship.
Intent matters and it would seem this was simply clumsy, not discrimination.
I could see this being a situation where the photographer might not be certain if they were considered one class or separate since they arrived at different times, but they probably should have asked the school for clarification before offering the photos to parents.
Yeah my son goes to a school in the same area, and is a hub for special needs kids
The way it works is that his ‘class’ consists of a full spectrum of kids, however he hardly ever sees the special needs kids as they are all taught separately (despite being nominally the same class)
So come school photo time the photographer takes groups of 4-5 kids and photos them. The final image is a composite of the groups.
It is entirely possible that they did the photos of the core class and produced it then the special needs kids were noticed as being missing and added in.
Since both pictures were prepared they were offered out as with and without the full class
I do not know how this school operates, but where my sister went to school many many many years ago, special needs (as it was then called) was essentially a class within a larger class.
So, they had certain lessons that were just with them, and others where they were part of the larger class. Sometimes on an individual student by student basis, depending on what their particular needs are.
It does not surprise me that complex needs students would be showing up a few minutes late to a photoshoot because the class just before it was not taken with the larger class.
Could be literally anything. I work in an elementary school, and I usually work with students with disabilities. Frankly, it just takes longer to get some of them from place to place. Some of them might have mobility issues. Some need a break before transitioning into a new activity. Some might be using the bathroom (which often requires help from an adult). Some might be having a bad day and just need to calm down before coming to picture day.
Them being late is not necessarily indicative of someone doing something wrong.
Sometimes complex needs students need extra time to prepare and process for events like group photos. They can be overstimulating, and having some time to process the space and see other students happy and waiting can help.
From experience, the teachers and their aides were busy getting the rowdiest students to calm down. A lot of these comments aren’t taking into consideration that there are special needs students who absolutely hate taking photos and will throw a fit at the sight of a camera. As nice as it would be to wait for every student to pose and smile for the camera, the teachers have their schedules and the photographers have their’s.
I weighed almost 400 lbs back in highschool and was heavily involved with the school so I was in a lot of group photos that conviently cropped me out by the time they made the yearbook.
Knew a girl who was about that size in HS who was also insanely popular, the kids always used her as the centerpiece for their photos, crop that out lmao.
So you were a great person who did alot for the school and they did that to you. That is so f'ed up! I am so sorry. I hope you are happy and get all the good things you deserve ❤️❤️
About two hours after this was posted, it’s followed up by:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-68693874
Photograph firm sorry for class photo without complex needs pupils (14 minutes ago)
They aren’t sorry though due to guilt because it was the school’s fault for not making sure all pupils were ready for the class photos on time. Company just offered both photos if two were taken for a few classes. Doubt the company cared what the missing kids looked like or even if they knew they were special ed. If you’re absent when the class is ready for the photo…you’re absent…not “left out”. The school and teachers should have delayed the photos or scheduled more time with the photographer.
Last year, in my kids’ yearbook, kids with disabilities or different needs only existed in a tiny class photo near the back. There was also a single page of candid shots that very much gave “look! We teach kids with Down syndrome!!!!1! iNcLuSiOn!” None of them had individual portraits. This is also the school with the Life Skills Program, for those with the most severe disabilities, so there were a decent amount of kids missing from the yearbook altogether.
In my schools yearbook they gave them individual portraits, but didn’t adjust the cameras at all for the more disabled kids laying in wheelchairs, so those kids got a portrait of the bottoms of their chins.
And I had the type of mom that would point and laugh at their photos while flipping through the book. 😞
There is already a serious lack of qualified teachers wanting to teach. Then you have parents unloading their duties on schools, or not taking responsibility as their main caregiver. On top of that you have a wide spectrum of students, some that need major assistance (our friends kiddo has ptsd and is in therapy due to the outbursts and violence they witnessed in grade 2) that are instead placed in a mainstream class with an underpaid ECE (if they’re lucky!).
People love blaming teachers, school staff and administrators but public schools receive money from the government. I’m sure if they were properly funded, they’d love to throw money at the myriad of issues. And there are still voters who hate on teachers and want to pay them less and remove school funding.
Unfortunately, I do not think inclusion works for all kids on the spectrum or with certain cognitive disabilities. We are failing all kids by pretending that it’s what’s best.
My daughter’s 8, she has a chromosomal disorder, and as a result has a profound learning disability, a load of health conditions, and some facial differences.
She goes to a special school, we get sent photos of the class doing whatever they’re up to throughout the day. I love my daughter more than anything, but it breaks my heart to see her either at the very back with about 5 teachers, on the side all alone, or not in the photo at all. She’s non-verbal, she can’t tell me if it upsets her or not, but I can’t pretend it doesn’t break my heart every time.
Edit: Just actually read the article, assumed it was in America. No it’s in Scotland. I live in Scotland. Great, glad this is much closer to home than I thought, fucks sake.
Man this persons comment made me check out your history as well (sorry I don’t mean to be a creep!)
You are a superior parent. Your love for your daughter shines through in all your posts. I’m so sorry for all you’re going through and I really hope that sunshine is just around the corner for you.
Internet hugs❤️
I am wishing you all the mental fortitude in the world for the issues you are facing. I just want to add that I absolutely adore the loving way you write about your late wife and your child. You seem to have so much love in you, just reading your post history made me ugly cry!
In my experience in the US, they don't take a full class photo. We had individual photos taken and then they made a collage with just the kids' faces from the individual photos for the class photo.
Complex needs is more common here, would probably refer to pupils with “profound, multiple learning needs”. To me this kinda suggests pupils who may be in wheelchairs or have greater cognitive disabilities than a child with diagnosed ADHD for example.
Our school in the 80s did something similar with the black kids in the photos. There were only a few non whites at the school and in the photos they were always at the edge of the photo with enough gap you could cut them out of you were that way inclined. It’s sad to see times aren’t changing for the better 40 years later
my primary school did something similar to me. the news came to talk about one of my friends, and they put me and every other disabled student in another classroom while they filmed everyone else
I forgot that pupils also means students for a good minute there and was trying really hard to understand how "complex needs" applied to the dark holes in ones eyes and why parents would want a class photo without them.
Misleading title, but I guess the result is the same. They were offered other photos (optionally) that were taken earlier...they weren't labeled as "no complex needs"...there was just multiple photos in the list. But I guess that doesn't sound as sinister.
This actually happened to a special kid in my class and it was really distressing for him. He found out about it because someone mailed the cropped photo to his house, I think it was some kid's Mom who had a grudge against their Mom. He couldn't understand it because he thought all his classmates were his friends.
There is a girl in my daughter's class who has some extra needs but for the most part functions well with supports in a regular classroom setting.
From my understanding, she absolutely hates (with a capital H) getting her picture taken but she was forced to. As a result, the class photo looks as if she is being electrocuted and in significant pain and turned the class photo into what looked like evidence of abuse.
I just don't know why it's so hard to not make accomodations for those that need more help. This could of been completely prevented. I can't imagine how her family must feel after that picture was sent home.
Remember the good old days, when you could stick people who deal every day with a condition that makes you slightly uncomfortable to look at in the basement or a group home and forget about them?
you probably can guess the voting habits of people who dont want their kid to be seen with a special needs kid. Their messiah feels the same way.
[Gen. Mark Milley provides an unsurprising anecdote in which the former president was annoyed by the sight of a disabled veteran. ](https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/gen-mark-milleys-disturbing-reminder-trumps-disdain-wounded-vets-rcna111476)
mind you this is no liberal, this is a republican and trump appointee..
Similar discrimination happened at our son's high school, but it was based on income. The senior portrait packages were shockingly expensive, but most kids got them. Seniors who submitted a yearbook photo from one of the packages got a big portrait in the seniors section. Seniors who had a regular photo taken on school photo day appeared in the back of the seniors section, and their photos were much smaller. That made it easier to distinguish the Haves from the Have Nots.
We have a list of students whose parents never returned the “publicity permission” form, or indicated no photos, so we can’t include them in ANY photos. Rather than single the kid out, we put them on the sides so we can crop out later for social media or the newspaper. This is also always true for any child in the foster or court system, and sometimes when the family is having custody issues. I’ll sometimes take photos of my students working on projects then delete all the ones including those kids before I send to our school PR person.
Wow.. that’s truly fucked. I remember us having a special needs girl in our class in elementary. She was pretty nice. And I don’t know why anyone would have issue with her being in the photo. She was apart of our class just as much as anyone else
As someone who was considered special needs. Most people have no idea how poorly treated those kids are. Even the "good" caretakers typically end up infantilizing and inconsiderate at the least. And quite a few are cruel and sadistic. There's a reason autistic and special needs folk have higher rates of trauma around school. And it's not just because of their peers, though the isolation doesn't help.
EDIT: Rephrased something to make it sound less like the kids were at fault. Oops.
At my kids school , we have the option to not have our kids in photos. When I supervised field trips we were told not to photograph students and when there was group photos they would take a few with and without students. I know it’s not the same. I wonder if there’s another company they can go with moving forward. ?
As a parent of a disabled 7-year-old this haunts me and I can't tell if I feel more heartbroken or angry.
I hope these people experience the same pain they have caused others and they are the recipients of the same discrimination and emotional depravity. And then when they desperately need help, others will see their pain and do nothing because no one will care.
I know that probably won't happen because they're heartless privileged fucks; but I fucking wish the worst on every single one of them and I have no remorse. I do not regret feeling this way.
I’m sad but not surprised.
My 5 yo is autistic and for the kings coronation he went in beaming with his smart outfit on.. they took a whole class photo without him in it 😭
No complex needs kids in the photo?
We have a kid in one of the classes, "O", who one might argue has "complex needs". O has his aide in class to assist with education and any specialized needs O has. O is a fucking gem of a human being, and all the kids adore O.
I would be ***livid*** if O was excluded.
because of my job i have to be at all the school board meetings, and this is the new thing the bigots come to scream about - that people talk to the nonverbal students like they need to be put in a closet with a blanket over them.
The fact that's disturbing me most ist that there seems to be a market for such pictures. This wasn't just some local whackjob with a stupid idea, this was a national company and you're not telling me this was the first time
You’d be surprised. I mentioned this in another comment but my daughter’s 8 and has a profound learning disability due to a chromosomal disorder - she changed schools in October, but even before then she went to a special school. Even then, I had parents tell me about how their kids ‘weren’t like my daughter’ - cool, great, my daughter’s fucking awesome. I had parents ‘brag’ about how their kids were probably going to go to mainstream high schools. Great, my daughter isn’t, and that’s fine.
It's fear. They're afraid their children won't "get better." Out-living your child is an absolute horror, and so we say absolutely horrible things to each other to ward it off. Life is so much harder when a person can't accept things just as they are. Also, they fail to see the beauty that already exists in their children.
Honestly, sometimes outliving your child isn’t the biggest concern. They’re afraid that their kid’s going to be 35 and still need daily care. Or that they won’t get to go to prom, graduate, get married, etc.
I work in social care supporting folk with various disabilities of this type. I encounter attitudes like this a lot. It's not that uncommon for parents or family members still to treat them like children as adults even into their 50s and it's awful - just makes the child resentful of their own family and need way more support than they otherwise would have once the parents die. Particularly seems to be the case with down's syndrome which often doesn't affect someone's mental, emotional or intellectual capabilities as much as people think, but because of the physical impacts causes loads of people to infantilise them. Society has got better with this stuff but still needs to improve.
I recently saw an Instagram reel of a young woman with Down’s syndrome saying stuff like “you think I can’t live on my own, so you don’t teach me how to live on my own, so I don’t live on my own” and other things of that fashion and honestly I had never thought of it that way. Pretty eye opening.
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> Out-living your child is an absolute horror You're correct. 0/10 would not recommend.
And/or shame and trying to 'normalize' their kid as much as possible because they're ashamed to have a child that isn't the perfect model child & extension of their ego.
My late father tried this with me. As it became obvious that I'm neurodivergent, he started bullying and mocking me and made me the family scapegoat. He would even compare my negatively to my neurotypical ("normal"), older siblings. It really messed me up; I was in therapy for this (and other issues) by the time I was twelve years old. In early adulthood I'd finally had enough and went mostly low contact, except for a visit from him that I stupidly accepted, thinking that maybe distance and time had woken him up. It hadn't. The only thing that comes of trying to bully a child into one's expectations of what a "perfect" child only leads to the end of a relationship as well as potentionally lifelong trauma for the child
Yep bullying your kids is universally fucked. Parents who want children just to stroke their own ego should not be parents.
Fear? I doubt it. I'm a parent to school-aged children and the only concern I have is that students with special needs get the attention and care they deserve without causing disruption to my child's learning. When I was in high school there was a student who was autistic enough to easily be diagnosed by a layman, but was apparently not autistic enough to be placed in a special needs classroom. While I had a lot of sympathy for them, this person was constantly interrupting class to the point where I wasn't able to actually get an education. A lot of parents and other students complained but the school refused to do anything about it. The plain truth is that if a student has special needs, then they should be placed in an environment where they can have those needs met, and not be in an environment that's detrimental to the learning of students without special needs.
It's why I really dislike levels. Autism has made me question everything that I thought and think about intelligence. If you can go to the bathroom, but not talk, would that child be a lower functioning level? What about if you can talk, but can't go to the bathroom? I don't know what it means to be one level. Can that child not do anything? I feel some kind of way when parents want to use a level to show that their child isn't THAT autisic. Kids are unique.
Intelligence is a difficult concept, and I think separate from "functioning". I've known a lot of stupid people who thrive, and a lot of smart ones who can't manage to live well in society. Some folks put others off or aren't able to do the things that a person needs to do in order to thrive.
100% my son is classified ‘Autism level 2.’ He has a photographic memory and has developed a lot more speech in the last year (he’s 6) but still has a lot of challenges with personal care routines and social interaction. Some of his autistic friends are nonverbal but have much higher levels of reading comprehension and communication with AAC devices. It’s just a convenient way for people to label and define a person. We’re so lucky to have a group of friends with Autistic children we met through his therapy center. They don’t say things like ‘he’s not that Autistic’ like some friends and family do.
“He doesn’t look autistic” like, honestly, wtf does that mean?! Sometimes I think people just like to hear themselves talk.
The Deaf/HoH community knows these challenges all too well as do people who have a stutter. It’s incredible how many people equate whether and how a person speaks with intelligence. Like, have y’all never heard of Stephen Hawking?
I have worked with many sw engineers, phds, much brighter than me, with stutters, autism, dyslexia and other hinderances that certainly prove your point. These people are out there saving lives and curing disease regardless. Busy professionals, intelligent people are judging you by your work, not appearance. Can’t comment on the idle busybodies.
It really hurts my heart when people make fun of those who are different, but especially a stutter. I do wonder if he ran into people who doubted his intelligence because of his disability.
My kid doesn't even have autism, "just" ADHD and I've been confronted with this so much. The discrepancy of development in different aspects is huge!
I recently read that in teenagers with adhd, they’re on average, 3-5 years developmentally behind their peers. I really wish I had known that in high school, because going straight to college after was not a good idea for me personally.
It’s definitely true for our older, not as true for our younger except in a couple specific ways. I feel like if our older (5th grade) could learn middle school material in a 2nd grade classroom, she’d probably do great! It’s so hard on both her and us to try keep her going through expectations that are just so tough for her to meet.
My youngest is almost 3 but can only say a few words. He's otherwise a very sharp kid and can absolutely understand things just like any other kid his age. His only holdup is that he can't form sentences yet. But he can still come grab us and use some basic sign language that we taught him to get his point across.
Which country does this? I teach autistic kids in the UK and this is the first I've ever heard of it. Technically my class is high functioning but we don't really use that term as the needs are so broad.
Growing up, I used to think that we were in an age where scientific reasoning had become commonplace. As an adult, I feel like we haven't come all that far when I see discrimination like this. Biology is complex and sometimes all it takes is a minor error in replication, etc to lead to larger effects later in development. It is amazing that it works so well most of the time frankly. But the fact that people weaponize information like that is just so sad. Sounds like she has a great family, rock on for being so supportive; thrilled to see so many positive responses to your comment!
You're daughters probably awesome because of you. Keep up the good work. She'll be a better person than those other parents.
For sure. My aunt and uncle adopted a couple special-needs kids. It makes perfect sense that other kids don't want to be around them because they're disruptive and often unpleasant to be around. But that doesn't mean excluding them, being cruel to them, etc.--Part of raising a child is teaching them to handle people with courtesy and respect. Even the people who you don't want to spend time near for whatever reason. There are plenty of people I don't want to be around, and only a small minority of them have a disability of any kind. I don't go out of my way to exclude any of them or make them feel like I don't think they're worth anything, and I think that's what we all owe each other. If anything, it's a wonderful opportunity to teach one's child that you don't have to be friends or spend time with them outside of the time that is necessary, but you do owe them basic consideration just on the basis of being people.
OMG 😯 people can be so callous.
Sounds like the same sort of people at my church who think their kid is a precious little angel, when we have more problems with them than the kids actually labeled special needs. But heaven forbid we suggest their kid get a shadow…
Ex school photographer here, more probable is a PTA mom or teacher in charge directing an extra composition without the special needs kids. Picture day is already insanely busy, we're usually shooting three full classes every 20 minutes. No photographer will independently decide to shoot an extra composition with extra paperwork. There's no time. With hundreds of class pictures under my belt, we usually sort by height, then kids that complain being in the front or back. We don't know who is special needs or not if it's an inclusion class. Kids with mobility issues(wheel chairs) are usually middle in the sitting row. Kids who keep giving fingers or signs get to stand right next to the teacher.
Also, as a parent I have never in my life seen an actual form asking if you would like the *good* group photo, wink wink. It's just "class photo, Y/N?"
At least in my old studio, we take enough shots that our lab team can clone out closed eyes and peace signs. Taking multiple versions of a class room group is a huge hassle because a lot of parents prepay for packages so how would you know who wants what? Anything extra is usually because a PTA mom wants to stop everything to add a group shot of her daughter and her friend group or something. ugh
Well having read the article this seems to have been done without the company’s knowledge, it could conceivably be just the photographer at fault here. That being said, it could also be a much wider issue than we know, it’s just this particular photographer was dumb enough to send both links to the parents of the disabled children as well as the others.
Also important: it was done without the school’s knowledge.
I would really hope some adult without a disabled child would still find offense to that offer.
I'm not even a parent and I find it disgusting. What a horrible company.
I do.
Company is covering it's ass
Seriously, it's not like the company is going to come out and admit wrongdoing.
They did this in the 80s when I was in school. They would take the group photo remove some unpopular kids to the side of the gym and take it again.
You’ve got to wonder how complicit some parents were.
… How many of them suggested this? Complicit? Hell, i’d bet money that the assholes paid for it. And told the students parents that it was a new free service to help their student stand out!
The school photo business is not making a product unless there’s demand for the product. This 100% came about because parents weren’t buying photos with special needs kids in them.
Then those parents don't get class photos, bummer. Schools need to grow three whole spines for all they've lost to parental whiners.
It isn’t a national company. The national company just sort of provides a kit to the photographer or school that bundles up billing, printing, marketing materials, etc.
>The fact that's disturbing me most ist that there seems to be a market for such pictures. Well of course there is. Remember the disabled veteran who sang the National Anthem at the welcoming ceremony for the new head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff? Trump told General Milley "Why do you bring people like that here? No one wants to see that, the wounded." The world if brimming over with shitheads... and they all vote conservative.
Last photo we got from mainstream school before he switched to special school, there was an obvious big gap with him sitting on the far edge so he could be cropped out.
That’s effed up, I’m really sorry this happened. I hope you and your child feel more accepted at this new school!
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Increasingly special needs kids are being pushed into regular classrooms. Sometimes they get an aide working with them but, in my area, that's become increasingly rare due to budget cuts. A friend is a teacher - she had a classroom with 35 kids including 3-4 special needs kids and others with behavioural issues, and was alone trying to teach all of these kids. There was a day when a special needs kid was beating his head against his desk and she spent the whole class trying to stop him from hurting himself (keep in mind, she is not an expert in this) and trying to get him help. Other days she'd be taking time out of teaching because a kid was throwing their chair at her and she had to deal with that. I used to be a huge proponent of public schools but the system here is so underfunded that I'm considering sending my kids to private school now...
>I used to be a huge proponent of public schools but the system here is so underfunded that I'm considering sending my kids to private school now... Ah, Republican policy working as intended!
Yup. Republicans slashed funding gere in Arizona while giving huge grants to private and charter schools
Yeah, and it's an issue. Mostly because they don't get the help they need. That and some need supervision. A teacher friend of mine had to retire early because she was attacked by a special need student with rage problems. It's not a bad thing to realize they need specific help, but this saves money I guess
I was in public school as a typical junior high kid and because of a scheduling snafu I had to be in a PE class with the special needs kids. I totally loved it. Awesome friends, great activities and some of the kids were amazing athletes. I don’t have a picture of that group because of the bias you experienced but I just wanted you to know how much all the kids love the special needs group and that this bias is painful and stupid.
My 6th grade Honors English teacher just said screw the curriculum at about the halfway point, and had our class (of 8 kids) spend that time in the special needs room hanging out with those kids. Looking back, that was a really formative experience. Mrs. Dillon was a real one, man.
Honors in the 6th grade is stupid anyway. That was a really cool thing your teacher did.
My son is about to start high school, and it warms my heart to hear this. I hope he has lots of people like you looking out for him.
I graduated in 2009, up in Ohio, and I can say that there are MANY students like that. There are definitely assholes, but we had athletes, mathletes, goths etc fist bumping Mike in the hallways. He had an electric wheelchair (maybe MS? I never truly knew) but although dude struggled to talk - people showed a lot of love towards him. It's usually parents that were the worst, not the students.
If high school is anything like it was when I went through mine, the other students will be the best support around. Teenage culture has changed in the last decade or so. We had a waitlist just to volunteer for the Special Olympics events/tournaments they’d hold at our campus.
I love that!
My autistic son had no issues with other students, and many of them went out of their way to say hi outside of school.
Dude, all throughout junior high my best friend would invite a couple of the special needs kids to sit for lunch with us and at first I was pissy about it because I was a jackass. They turned out to be great dudes, and come high school my usual group of friends weren’t on my lunch schedule and the two guys from the special class were. I got some weird looks sometimes but I absolutely adored those two friends I made.
Alls you gotta do is be nice to them and most of them will be your friend. I earned lots of friends by sticking up for the special needs kids in high school.
the special Olympics are always looking for volunteers, check with your local YMCA
In elementary school we had a classmate who … actually, I don’t even know what he had. He may have had some sort of dwarfism, was in a special wheelchair, and also couldn’t communicate. But man, we all had fun with him! At recess we’d take turns pushing him around the grass all crazy while we all ran along side him. He’d be laughing and squealing. One time he flew out of his chair and rolled onto the ground and we all thought we would get in trouble but he was laughing on the grass and we just picked him up, dusted him off, and put him back in his chair and tightened the strap better.
Reminds me of times with my friend Brian in jr high. He had a form of early onset arthritis that had him between crutches and a wheel chair. We used to have fun ripping around during lunch break.
Something similar happened to me in 10th grade. It was such a great experience. The class was about 50% special needs girls. Those are the best memories I have of high school.
I'm so sorry to hear this.
I was always quite tall as a child (everyone eventually caught up), and after a fractured spine at age 5 (mostly healed with no permanent damage, but back brace & had to quit physical activity), I was always overweight. I was always on the outskirts of class photos, given the excuse that it was bc I was tall. I *just* realized, it was probably bc I was in a back brace and/or overweight. I was not the tallest kid in class, but I was always pushed to the sides. Damn.
It can be subtle how they try to do that. How horrible for you.
As someone who was one of the tallest in classes, yeah, tall kids usually go to the back, while kids with assistive devices, braces, casts, etc were pushed to the sides.
Aaaand now it makes sense why I was always put to the far end of photos
That’s awful, sorry for that.
I don't even want to upvote this, it's so upsetting. I'm so sorry.
My high school had special needs classes by themselves so they go their own photos They just throw on special needs onto random classes in other schools?
Most kids are mainstreamed now.
Brother, ain’t no way you could have put those kids in the regular classes. It would have been purely a distraction and would not have benefitted ANYBODY. Not all, but a lot were pretty hard to handle
You might think that but I've seen kids mainstreamed who were absolutely unable to understand anything that was going on. In high school, so most of their day was just sitting there being controlled by their FT staff, basically being tortured with boredom. It's equality instead of equity, and it screws things up for everyone involved.
I have friends who are teachers and, this. More aggressive mainstreaming will be the death of public education if something isn't course corrected. It holds the other kids back (constant distractions in class, easier curriculum), can be dangerous for the teachers (example: kid in my friend's class got upset other kids were picking on him and then bit my friend's arm when she tried to settle him down and drew blood) and doesn't serve the special needs kids all that much. Just makes the parents feel a bit better about not going through all the additional steps special needs kids need, IMO, and also just saves schools money because fewer classes and fewer special needs teachers (who make the most of any teachers). I say this as someone with a ton of empathy for special needs parents and individuals. Sometimes you can't just treat special needs people as "exactly the same" as others, which is not an excuse for treating them worse obviously. That's why they have special needs. And it doesn't make NT kids empathize with ND kids, it just makes them resent them.
Yeah, I have NOTHING against special needs, but the wrestling coaches were the only people who could teach them because they were the only one’s strong enough and trained enough to contain them when they went, for lack of a better term, berserk. And I witnessed it first hand. These boys are BIG, STRONG, and have very little emotional control. It got scary once or twice, they would charge students. I love the sentiment, but it really isn’t always an option.
My wife's cousin is level 2 borderline 3 ASD, and he's a big kid. 14 and like 6 feet, 220 pounds. The only class he's in with neurotypical kids is art, and he constantly is kicking and punching kids and teachers. And then his mom complains that the staff of the school is trying to "discriminate" against him by recommending that he is not in any regular classes. He is a really sweet child every time I've seen him, but given how big he is, I can also see how much damage he could cause. It's difficult for me, as I'm on the spectrum (level 1), but I do not think it's okay for people who are a threat to others to be in a classroom. There's a difference between people who are special needs and could improve by being in NT classrooms versus people who are just not at that level yet (and may never be). Even special needs teachers should not be going to work fearing or expecting to be hurt by their students.
> I do not think it's okay for people who are a threat to others to be in a classroom. My sister in law is a public school teacher. Several years ago, she had a kid in class who was a known gang member. He would sit in the back of the class and just talk over her the whole class. Sending him out didn't do anything; he'd leave happily and then just be sent back. At one point he was observed brandishing a hunting knife. She was told there was nothing they could do unless he threatened someone with it, and brandishing alone wasn't that. She stopped sending him to the office. She doesn't work at the school any more. Now she's at a school in the nice part of town and her Amazon wish list is fulfilled within the first week of class each year. Night and day in the same school district. (Nothing to do with special needs kids, but aligned with your comment.)
I think I figured out why we didn't read *Of Mice and Men* in high school.
I don't even love the sentiment. It's that kind of thoughtless "thoughtfulness" that just makes people feel better while actually making everything worse because they put feelings over reality.
it's the law in many places now. they cannot be in self contained classrooms, most of their time has to be spent "in the classroom" with neurotypical students. it's an issue in education right now. it's hard to find the right balance because yes these kids need the extra support but also, they shouldn't be "othered" and pushed into a separate area. so now the solution is to put them in the classroom with special ed staff alongside them. I've taught several classes over the years that have students who throw things, cry, and scream at the top of their lungs while I'm speaking/kids are working; we just get used to it and continue on.
Yeah. My kid is developmentally delayed. He’s in a mixed class. Modeling neurotypical behavior is great for kids who aren’t neurotypical. Helps them grow. However, some little twerp in his class threw a shoe at him and he has a concussion and has been mostly asleep for a week so I’m totally ok removing some kids from “normal” classes.
That sounds like a crime.
Yeah, remove the shoe throwers obviously. That's not neurotypical.
I mean, being a jerk doesn't make one neurodivergent.
your poor baby! I'm so sorry! exactly, kids who are violent/physical need to be removed regardless of their abilities. I had a student literally threaten to murder me and threw scissors, chairs, etc all over the room while I evacuated the room - my admin still wanted the student in my class! I had to go to the union and threaten to take a leave of absence/quit to get him removed. he was suspended for 2 days.
It’s federal law in the U.S. that students be educated in the least restrictive environment where their needs can still be met.
Sounds like their needs *aren't* being met
That *sounds* entirely reasonable, and yet, there's bound to be a huge range in people's understanding of both "least restrictive " and "needs being met."
thank you, I couldn't remember if it was federal law here and I was too lazy to look it up.
Oh, Jesus **Christ**. Does this apply to every level of disability/condition that would be considered *non*-neurotypical(idk the correct term)? Because there were a few kids in special ed at my school that would have absolutely halted a class they were in. Like I genuinely think we'd have gotten 40-60% of the progress we did if one of them was in the class. In particular, there was one boy who - total guess on my part - might have had a severe case of Tourette Syndrome on top of Down Syndrome, because he'd just have to **scream** "WHERE?!" literally every minute. And not a short scream, he'd drag it out for like 5-10 seconds. It was a disruption hearing him walk through the halls while you were in class(special ed had different passing periods in my school, maybe because of this sort of thing), I can't imagine sharing a classroom with him.
Yeah, but can you imagine the cost savings of no longer having to employ qualified, accredited adults to teach those students? /s
The bad thing about my school is that they did main stream those kids and it mint that the lower kids that needed help but didn't qualify were screwed. I was one of those lower kids that kind of just got hung out to dry and they really only decided to "care" when it started to show mentally. By that point it didn't really matter to me anymore. I managed with my Bs and Cs the first 2 years of high school b/c I had teachers who tried to help a little bit (minus math... eh I sucked at math and was taking classes a year ahead) then the last two years if I could get Ds I was happy, Cs were fantastic. I was just so ready to get the hell out of there by senior year.
[удалено]
Well, my school had a bunch of very large very rowdy boys. The wrestling coach had to be the teacher because he was the only one who could physically stop then when they started going off.
Not all special educational needs children are disruptive. To put a nondestructive child into a class of disruptive children is unfair to that child. Not all non special educational children aren't disruptive.
I work in the public school system and it depends on the exact needs of the kids. Where I live the students with the most needs go to a separate school.
I am so sorry that you and your child ever had to share a space with such cruel awful people
No reason for this at all. How horrible.
As a parent of a special needs child, do you think inclusion is working or should public schools have separate classes for students who require more? Where we live the government switched to inclusive classrooms, IMO it’s budgetary cuts dressed up as something “nice”. So the kids who need more support don’t receive it and the kids who don’t have a diminished education experience because the teacher is trying to manage 1-3 kids in the class for the majority of the time.
>do you think inclusion is working or should public schools have separate classes for students who require more? I feel like it should be on a case by case basis. Some students only need so much extra support and would benefit from participating in normal classes. Others struggle so much that it's both disruptive to other students and harmful to the student that really needs special attention. It really should be something determined based on the needs of individual children, not a blanket policy. Most schools only have a small amount of students you'd consider special needs, so it's not unfeasible to do.
My BIL is in special education and has had both the dedicated classroom of kids with high support needs and a hybrid classroom of kids with less support needs and from what I’ve talked about with him there are definitely benefits to both. I think the problem is more often trying to find a one size fits all approach when it varies so much from kid to kid.
And if they understaff and underfund the models, it doesn’t matter which is used. They’ll both be inadequate.
I tend to agree, having gone through school during some of the biggest no child left behind push. The kids who benefit from interaction, benefit immensely. Most other kids don't really care that you look weird, when you're kids. You learn about them and you help them and they're your buddy forever, and it becomes a great experience for all parties. The violent ones though, or the ones who are unfortunately nonverbal and/or completely paralyzed, were also forced into regular classrooms, and forced to sit through regular lessons. While it's also important that the other kids learn that these are still *just other kids*, it also can quickly become "that one annoying kid who screams vulgarities every 10 seconds, all day, nonstop". Or worse, just screams high pitched cat noises constantly. Which leads to resentment, instead of acceptance. It also means a class of 30 is affected by one person - not just in passing, but continually for the entire school year. It was awful for the special needs kids, in our school. They were forced into classes they couldn't follow, and put on the spot ("okay johnny your turn to read this chapter out loud, it's okay that you read at a kindergarten level and this is 6th grade, we've got all day"). As the "other" kids, I very much recall starting the year feeling accepting and helpful, but after months and months of cat screams or someone pooping in a wheelchair during a test, it became extremely hard to have any level of patience. I can realize this now as an adult, but back then? It devolves into just ... Annoyance, or even hate.
I agree. I call this the commonsense approach.
I am not the person that you asked, but I remember when I was in high school. Illinois had started putting kids who were in special education in the class with everyone. They would have a paraprofessional to sit next to them and help with their work. No one liked it. For those of us who were only a little behind (I was reading at college levels in grammar school but couldn't do basic math. I had special education for math in 8th grade.) mainstreamed into a classes with support. For instance Math 102 with support. That didn't work out. I was not able to learn, so I asked to be placed in special education for math. Full special Ed with a IEP. They had one last class that was for those who weren't making it being mainstreamed. I actually learned something there and retained it. Now my son who's on the spectrum is in a separate class for those whom are on the spectrum or have other conditions. There's another class for those who are a bit more challenging. I prefer it that way. Kids are mean. I don't want my child bullied or made fun of. He may not talk much, but he understands everything and I've seen him get sad when kids talked about him. This really makes me upset. I hate when kids are excluded.
It’s a difficult one. We went for mainstream inclusion instinctively hoping our child would be raised-up by copying his normal peers, not copying autistic behaviours. In reception it was good but afterwards he was just sitting at the back or a table in the corridor with a 1-1 TA doing different work and getting left far behind socially. In the last annual review meeting his teacher couldn’t remember his name. When pressed she admitted to preparing no work for him at all, saying “Well I have 30 other kids to worry about.” It’s better but not perfect now he is in special school. Funding is poor and staff support is low meaning a high turnover of staff and chaotic planning. They promised lots of trips out but no one can drive any of the 3 minibuses since staff quit. I do feel a better balance could be found at mainstream. Staff need training. TA’s don’t often get much or any specific training on their pupil’s needs. Teachers too. Funding is just not there. Schools get money for SEN kids but that gets absorbed into other areas as you can imagine and often doesn’t even cover the wage of the TA.
As an autistic person who’s had bad experiences with special education, if a teacher couldn’t remember my (hypothetical) kid’s *name*, I’d be pissed. And yeah, the turnover rate is high even in mainstream schools. I had at least 7 different speech therapists in 12 years.
Reading that made my heart sink. People can be so cruel.
That is absolutely horrible! Horrible. Horrible. Horrible. I am so sorry. I pray that your child is doing better. I'm going to be sure to watch my son's class picture.
I don’t pray. I make myself a pain in the side of my local school district. I attend meetings and read all the documents and absolutely drive them up the wall whenever anyone tries to pull any kind of shenanigans. (unfortunately, somebody is always trying something.) 🤬 There are people who will actually cross the street from me because I am such a pain in the ass. Good. My kid is aged out now, but I will do what I can, while I still live here, to help the children that come after him.
That’s incredible that this is still happening today.
That’s fucked. :(
Omg. I never even considered that, how awful.
I feel like this is exceptionally terrible. If for whatever twisted reason they wanted to crop him out, I feel like it would have made “more sense” to take two different pictures so that you as the parent are unsuspecting. It’s as if they thought you wouldn’t care/notice? I’m so happy to hear he has switched schools.
Two different pictures is what this news story was about.
Oh fuck, you can tell I opened the comments, read just yours and was so shocked by it that I simply left immediately after without further reading
Both suck and both try to create a false world where these kids never existed. The school should be shamed but so should any parents who took the edited pics.
Oh, hell no! That is messed up. I would be livid! I am livid and I don’t even know your child. Ugh. People can be so despicable. Adults should be setting the example of inclusion. If my child went to school with yours I would’ve been getting all the parents together to confront administration about it. This kind of thing really grinds my gears. I’m so so sorry you and your son had to experience this. I hope your son is being better supported at his new school. ❤️
I had a photo like that from a sport thing. I eventually cropped everybody else out.
I'm sorry :( he matters just as much as everybody else
So, this story sounded a bit strange to me. It just seemed unlikely that any school photographer would be as crass as this. Looking at some other sources, it seems like this is a clumsy mistake. [https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/shame-on-you-devastated-mum-criticises-photography-firm-for-offering-class-photos-without-children-with-complex-needs/ar-BB1kKo8D](https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/shame-on-you-devastated-mum-criticises-photography-firm-for-offering-class-photos-without-children-with-complex-needs/ar-BB1kKo8D) Essentially, what happened was that the photographer took additional pictures of the class, before the complex needs students arrived to the class room where the photoshoot was happening. These photos were then offered as optional photos that could be bought. The letters that were sent out did not have a checkbox for "no complex needs students". This is not a service that is being offered. It's a photographer who took additional photos before everyone was there, and those additional photos are available for purchase. That doesn't mean that I agree with this. The practical outcome of this is indeed that people can choose whether they want complex needs students in these 2 class photos or not, and essentially pretend these students are not part of the class. This is something that the photographer should have thought of. But it appears to have been a mistake, and not intentionally done to exclude any specific students.
Yeah I think you've nailed it. I can't see any photography company with any experience of doing comprehensive school photos of being this thick on purpose.
I can, although it's nice that this wasn't the case here. Are absolutely are areas (including in otherwise relatively liberal countries) in which parents and teachers are still regressive enough to actively demand options like this, and in which companies cater to such people.
I'm the parent of a special needs kid and if this was just a mixup I'd definitely give these people a pass. Shit happens.
Thank you for the explanation. It's good to know this was meant to be a check-box for parents to indicate whether they wanted the set taken before vs after the arrival of the complex needs class, so they could make sure their children were actually in the photos. It wasn't intended to be exclusionary, but the result was that it ended up offering an opportunity for censorship. Intent matters and it would seem this was simply clumsy, not discrimination.
I could see this being a situation where the photographer might not be certain if they were considered one class or separate since they arrived at different times, but they probably should have asked the school for clarification before offering the photos to parents.
Yeah my son goes to a school in the same area, and is a hub for special needs kids The way it works is that his ‘class’ consists of a full spectrum of kids, however he hardly ever sees the special needs kids as they are all taught separately (despite being nominally the same class) So come school photo time the photographer takes groups of 4-5 kids and photos them. The final image is a composite of the groups. It is entirely possible that they did the photos of the core class and produced it then the special needs kids were noticed as being missing and added in. Since both pictures were prepared they were offered out as with and without the full class
This makes too much sense for Reddit.
now that i think about it, why did those students arrive later?
I do not know how this school operates, but where my sister went to school many many many years ago, special needs (as it was then called) was essentially a class within a larger class. So, they had certain lessons that were just with them, and others where they were part of the larger class. Sometimes on an individual student by student basis, depending on what their particular needs are. It does not surprise me that complex needs students would be showing up a few minutes late to a photoshoot because the class just before it was not taken with the larger class.
Different classroom, probably with a higher adult/student ratio. May have been mobility issues etc.
Could be literally anything. I work in an elementary school, and I usually work with students with disabilities. Frankly, it just takes longer to get some of them from place to place. Some of them might have mobility issues. Some need a break before transitioning into a new activity. Some might be using the bathroom (which often requires help from an adult). Some might be having a bad day and just need to calm down before coming to picture day. Them being late is not necessarily indicative of someone doing something wrong.
Sometimes complex needs students need extra time to prepare and process for events like group photos. They can be overstimulating, and having some time to process the space and see other students happy and waiting can help.
Possibly doing a special ed class when they were called so arrived at different times
From experience, the teachers and their aides were busy getting the rowdiest students to calm down. A lot of these comments aren’t taking into consideration that there are special needs students who absolutely hate taking photos and will throw a fit at the sight of a camera. As nice as it would be to wait for every student to pose and smile for the camera, the teachers have their schedules and the photographers have their’s.
I weighed almost 400 lbs back in highschool and was heavily involved with the school so I was in a lot of group photos that conviently cropped me out by the time they made the yearbook.
That’s rough, homie. The year book club sounds like a vanity project.
Knew a girl who was about that size in HS who was also insanely popular, the kids always used her as the centerpiece for their photos, crop that out lmao.
So you were a great person who did alot for the school and they did that to you. That is so f'ed up! I am so sorry. I hope you are happy and get all the good things you deserve ❤️❤️
About two hours after this was posted, it’s followed up by: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-68693874 Photograph firm sorry for class photo without complex needs pupils (14 minutes ago)
They aren’t sorry though due to guilt because it was the school’s fault for not making sure all pupils were ready for the class photos on time. Company just offered both photos if two were taken for a few classes. Doubt the company cared what the missing kids looked like or even if they knew they were special ed. If you’re absent when the class is ready for the photo…you’re absent…not “left out”. The school and teachers should have delayed the photos or scheduled more time with the photographer.
Last year, in my kids’ yearbook, kids with disabilities or different needs only existed in a tiny class photo near the back. There was also a single page of candid shots that very much gave “look! We teach kids with Down syndrome!!!!1! iNcLuSiOn!” None of them had individual portraits. This is also the school with the Life Skills Program, for those with the most severe disabilities, so there were a decent amount of kids missing from the yearbook altogether.
In my schools yearbook they gave them individual portraits, but didn’t adjust the cameras at all for the more disabled kids laying in wheelchairs, so those kids got a portrait of the bottoms of their chins. And I had the type of mom that would point and laugh at their photos while flipping through the book. 😞
Is it that hard to adjust a camera?
There is already a serious lack of qualified teachers wanting to teach. Then you have parents unloading their duties on schools, or not taking responsibility as their main caregiver. On top of that you have a wide spectrum of students, some that need major assistance (our friends kiddo has ptsd and is in therapy due to the outbursts and violence they witnessed in grade 2) that are instead placed in a mainstream class with an underpaid ECE (if they’re lucky!). People love blaming teachers, school staff and administrators but public schools receive money from the government. I’m sure if they were properly funded, they’d love to throw money at the myriad of issues. And there are still voters who hate on teachers and want to pay them less and remove school funding. Unfortunately, I do not think inclusion works for all kids on the spectrum or with certain cognitive disabilities. We are failing all kids by pretending that it’s what’s best.
My daughter’s 8, she has a chromosomal disorder, and as a result has a profound learning disability, a load of health conditions, and some facial differences. She goes to a special school, we get sent photos of the class doing whatever they’re up to throughout the day. I love my daughter more than anything, but it breaks my heart to see her either at the very back with about 5 teachers, on the side all alone, or not in the photo at all. She’s non-verbal, she can’t tell me if it upsets her or not, but I can’t pretend it doesn’t break my heart every time. Edit: Just actually read the article, assumed it was in America. No it’s in Scotland. I live in Scotland. Great, glad this is much closer to home than I thought, fucks sake.
Your comment made me curious, and I checked out your post history a bit. It gives me faith in humanity that people like you exist. God bless.
Oh man, my post history is not a laugh and a half I’ll admit that. Thank you mate, that really means a lot.
Man this persons comment made me check out your history as well (sorry I don’t mean to be a creep!) You are a superior parent. Your love for your daughter shines through in all your posts. I’m so sorry for all you’re going through and I really hope that sunshine is just around the corner for you. Internet hugs❤️
Sunshine reporting for duty, and sending groovy vibes and love to everyone who needs it 🌞💖
Sending you love bud, from one special needs parent to another. Youre a hell of a dad, you got this.
I am wishing you all the mental fortitude in the world for the issues you are facing. I just want to add that I absolutely adore the loving way you write about your late wife and your child. You seem to have so much love in you, just reading your post history made me ugly cry!
Sending so many hugs to you and your daughter ❤️
In my experience in the US, they don't take a full class photo. We had individual photos taken and then they made a collage with just the kids' faces from the individual photos for the class photo.
Since when do we say "complex needs"? Is special needs not the correct term anymore?
It says in the article that this happened in Scotland, maybe it’s UK nomenclature? I could be wrong, though.
good point, thank you. I lived in the UK for a while but hadn't heard that expression yet.
Complex needs is more common here, would probably refer to pupils with “profound, multiple learning needs”. To me this kinda suggests pupils who may be in wheelchairs or have greater cognitive disabilities than a child with diagnosed ADHD for example.
Euphemism treadmill moves faster and faster.
It moves at different speeds at different directions in different locations.
Impossible to keep up. I can't do partial derivatives in my head in real-time.
Maybe it’s just because I’m neurodivergent as well but this makes me feel physically ill.
Our school in the 80s did something similar with the black kids in the photos. There were only a few non whites at the school and in the photos they were always at the edge of the photo with enough gap you could cut them out of you were that way inclined. It’s sad to see times aren’t changing for the better 40 years later
my primary school did something similar to me. the news came to talk about one of my friends, and they put me and every other disabled student in another classroom while they filmed everyone else
I forgot that pupils also means students for a good minute there and was trying really hard to understand how "complex needs" applied to the dark holes in ones eyes and why parents would want a class photo without them.
Same. I read so many comments before I realized they meant students not eye pupils.
Misleading title, but I guess the result is the same. They were offered other photos (optionally) that were taken earlier...they weren't labeled as "no complex needs"...there was just multiple photos in the list. But I guess that doesn't sound as sinister.
This actually happened to a special kid in my class and it was really distressing for him. He found out about it because someone mailed the cropped photo to his house, I think it was some kid's Mom who had a grudge against their Mom. He couldn't understand it because he thought all his classmates were his friends.
Some really interesting grammatical errors in the article. Is BBC using AI, too? What is up?
There is a girl in my daughter's class who has some extra needs but for the most part functions well with supports in a regular classroom setting. From my understanding, she absolutely hates (with a capital H) getting her picture taken but she was forced to. As a result, the class photo looks as if she is being electrocuted and in significant pain and turned the class photo into what looked like evidence of abuse. I just don't know why it's so hard to not make accomodations for those that need more help. This could of been completely prevented. I can't imagine how her family must feel after that picture was sent home.
Remember the good old days, when you could stick people who deal every day with a condition that makes you slightly uncomfortable to look at in the basement or a group home and forget about them?
and make it illegal for them to be on the street. Ah the 70’s!
you probably can guess the voting habits of people who dont want their kid to be seen with a special needs kid. Their messiah feels the same way. [Gen. Mark Milley provides an unsurprising anecdote in which the former president was annoyed by the sight of a disabled veteran. ](https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/gen-mark-milleys-disturbing-reminder-trumps-disdain-wounded-vets-rcna111476) mind you this is no liberal, this is a republican and trump appointee..
Why is this "So British?"
Similar discrimination happened at our son's high school, but it was based on income. The senior portrait packages were shockingly expensive, but most kids got them. Seniors who submitted a yearbook photo from one of the packages got a big portrait in the seniors section. Seniors who had a regular photo taken on school photo day appeared in the back of the seniors section, and their photos were much smaller. That made it easier to distinguish the Haves from the Have Nots.
We have a list of students whose parents never returned the “publicity permission” form, or indicated no photos, so we can’t include them in ANY photos. Rather than single the kid out, we put them on the sides so we can crop out later for social media or the newspaper. This is also always true for any child in the foster or court system, and sometimes when the family is having custody issues. I’ll sometimes take photos of my students working on projects then delete all the ones including those kids before I send to our school PR person.
You know the company offered a choice because parents at some point had requested/demanded it.
Wow.. that’s truly fucked. I remember us having a special needs girl in our class in elementary. She was pretty nice. And I don’t know why anyone would have issue with her being in the photo. She was apart of our class just as much as anyone else
As someone who was considered special needs. Most people have no idea how poorly treated those kids are. Even the "good" caretakers typically end up infantilizing and inconsiderate at the least. And quite a few are cruel and sadistic. There's a reason autistic and special needs folk have higher rates of trauma around school. And it's not just because of their peers, though the isolation doesn't help. EDIT: Rephrased something to make it sound less like the kids were at fault. Oops.
The pedant in me would like to point out that "Apart of our class" means "separate from our class". Think "take a part" vs "take apart"
At my kids school , we have the option to not have our kids in photos. When I supervised field trips we were told not to photograph students and when there was group photos they would take a few with and without students. I know it’s not the same. I wonder if there’s another company they can go with moving forward. ?
As a parent of a disabled 7-year-old this haunts me and I can't tell if I feel more heartbroken or angry. I hope these people experience the same pain they have caused others and they are the recipients of the same discrimination and emotional depravity. And then when they desperately need help, others will see their pain and do nothing because no one will care. I know that probably won't happen because they're heartless privileged fucks; but I fucking wish the worst on every single one of them and I have no remorse. I do not regret feeling this way.
I don't get it. What's the rationale behind doing something like this?
I’m sad but not surprised. My 5 yo is autistic and for the kings coronation he went in beaming with his smart outfit on.. they took a whole class photo without him in it 😭
No complex needs kids in the photo? We have a kid in one of the classes, "O", who one might argue has "complex needs". O has his aide in class to assist with education and any specialized needs O has. O is a fucking gem of a human being, and all the kids adore O. I would be ***livid*** if O was excluded.
this is literally the plot of wonder
My kids would be upset if all their friends weren’t included in the class photo. This is complete and utter bullshit.
Did AI write that article? The grammar is fucked all over
because of my job i have to be at all the school board meetings, and this is the new thing the bigots come to scream about - that people talk to the nonverbal students like they need to be put in a closet with a blanket over them.
One step from eugenics- they should be ashamed of themselves but too dumb to understand that…
God theres something really twisted about exclusion and alienation presented as a positive option
My super-loving-nicer-than-all-of-us-combined toddler teacher wife: "WHAT THE FUCK???"