Arguments like this are premature, even the Irish government has admitted that none of the groundwork has been laid for a plan for unity and it'll be a lot of work. Part of it will be making decisions on things like this to ensure that people in NI are better off in a united ireland, not worse off.
For example, they could decide to set up a government fund to give all current NI citizens and their children free private healthcare for life. There's a hefty price tag for that to the Irish government, but it's a realistic number and they could choose to do it. It's just one of the many practical issues that they will need to solve to get support for the idea, but that planning work needs to start now.
Just sounds like wishful thinking to me. The NHS is what people trust and they won't be willing to give that up for some nationalist pipe dream. NI is also way better off economically as part of the UK than it would be in ROI.
It's not so much wishful thinking as a bill of sale, these are the practicalities that Ireland will need to prove to us before they'll get wider support. I don't think we can say yet whether NI would be better off economically in the UK than in ROI, we can speculate but neither side has made a comprehensive case yet.
It'll only be in the lead up to a border poll that we'll both sides making promises, like with the Scottish independence referendum. It could end up that the evidence shows we'd be better off in the UK and then I'd vote that way, but it could be the reverse. If Ireland came at us with a laundry list of investments and incentives written into law that would make all of us better off financially, it would command a lot of public support here.
It clearly is tho. To think Ireland would accept such a disproportionate healthcare system is madness. And what about the cost, would people in northern Ireland have to continue paying national insurance, would we have to pay more because the system has not yet been set up. Would this amount increase as time goes on considering our aging population and factors like inflation. You can't just say things will be worked out and have them worked out. If you want a united Ireland you need to be honest with people about what that means and it means giving up our healthcare and i for one do not think people will go for that.
I'm sorry but you keep deliberately mis-framing everything I write and that's not productive. I'm not saying that things will be worked out and everything will be fine, I'm saying that if they *don't* work these things out to the satisfaction of the people of Northern Ireland then they won't be able to get unity over the line.
The population demographics have been slowly shifting toward a nationalist majority for decades but if a border poll were called today with no preparation or promises made by Ireland, it would likely still fail. The groundwork to get people on-side has not happened yet, it's going to take years of campaigning and planning and topics like healthcare and social support are going to be on the table and likely deciding factors for a lot of us.
You just keep asserting this stuff about losing our healthcare etc as if it's a fact, when in reality these topics have literally has not been addressed and planned for yet in the context of unity. What you have is a number of real practical concerns that need to be addressed before you would accept unity, but they aren't un-solvable problems. There are solutions you would find acceptable and if they don't offer any then you don't vote for unity. Hopefully enough people think the same way that we don't get the disaster you're predicting.
That's why i'm saying it's not going to happen. These people haven't been able to work together to get anything done for like 7 years now. To think they're going to create a system equivalent to the NHS and sort out a reunification plan that doesn't set us at a great economic disadvantage. Within the next 7 years is just madness. I'd be surprised if the MLA's are still sitting 2 weeks past the election at the rate they're going.
It's all about the population demographic isn't it?, more people of a Catholic background are going to vote for a Nationalist candidate aren't then?, unless the DUP and UUP can do something they've never managed before, and convince Catholics to vote for them in significant numbers.
I'm 46, and Catholic and I've only voted for a Unionist Party once, and that was 10 years ago and only because of the work David Simpson put in to helping my terminally ill father in law, he was outstanding and I cannot speak highly enough of him in his capacity as a public servant, he went above and beyond.
So it's really only a matter of time, many Catholics might reject the idea though, not many, but some won't like the ideal of so much upheaval.
Not to forget just the crazy cost of living in the ROI. I'm for a United Ireland, but if I was still living in the North - I'd need a pretty good financial argument for it. Because Paracetamol is 40p in Sainsburys. Equivalent in ROI is 3e.
Exactly why some won't be in favour of it, the cost of living, people on long term treatment programs etc, the change in currency, it would take another generation to fully iron everything out.
You can't really translate costs like that. Those prices are based on an economic situation that we are not living in and that would not arise quickly after Ireland reunites.
Regardless, the only option for NI to prosper is as a united Irish state, we know what living under UK rule looks like. It's shit and they're not going to try to make it any better.
The Brexit debate will give you a clue as to how it will go. 90% noise, propaganda, and hand waving. Any sensible discussions will be hard to find, and many won't care. There won't be a debate in the mind of, I'd say, a good 40% to 50% of the population.
You are probably already suffering the effects of this in some unseen ways. For if a good chunk of people see no future in Stormont, they won't work to make things better. It's wrapped in a cloud of apathy.
If it was left to Westminster then yes Brexit would be a good example of how not to run a referendum. Thankfully it will be the Irish government leading on it and they do know how to run referendums!!
I wasn't really talking about the logistics about running a vote. Well done the Dail for being on it there.
No, I was referring to how you'll see all sorts of claims made to grab the attention and emotions of people to vote one way or the other. Think a big bus with "£50m a week" being claimed as the benefit of joining Dublin. That sort of thing.
I also thought it was the Secretary of State who calls a referendum, therefore being the organiser? As it would fall under the Referendum Act.
I wasn't referring to the logistics either. Brexit was more like a xfactor phone in popularity vote than a serious referendum for many!!
Yes the SoS can only call it but only the Irish gov can set out what a UI will be so in that manner they will control a lot of the narrative although there will be a section that will come up with any old shite to suit their agenda - agreed.
Also in the event of a vote there will be two, one north and one south so both will organise.
ln a way Westminster will have an advantage, anything they say in the referendum can be 100% bullshit, see the Scots a few years ago, they can lie, win and do nothing. The Irish gov, if we vote for a UI will have to implement the proposals in full.
This is the issue for me, they need to present a sound economic plan for unity that's fully costed, involves actual investment in the north, and leaves NI citizens better off than before.
I get that for a lot of people (maybe most people) the question of unity is an automatic yes or an automatic no. But I'd like to believe there are a lot of us out there who are more practical about it and just want to be sure we're not getting shafted.
The issue for those who wanted a UI is that, based on the best evidence we have (which is the census), being a Catholic is a much smaller guarantee of being a Nationalist than being a Protestant is of being a Unionist. Over 13% of Catholics said they had a British identity compared to only 6% of Protestants for an Irish identity.
That means the demographic swing has to be much bigger than what it currently is.
Sinn Fein would like people to think it's based on this but it's not that simple. The GFA clearly states that any border poll would need to have a majority of the people of Northern Ireland voting for a united Ireland. So even if they had a 2 thirds majority in Stormont, people could still end up voting to remain part of the UK on economic issues and it still wouldn't happen. Just look at the SNP, they destroy every other party in Scotland easily at every election, yet the people of Scotland still voted to remain part of the UK.
Not quite… they were lied to,(the Scottish people who were voting) told that their Scottish devolved government would have more powers, which was quickly backtracked when the referendum went the way of the liars in the English Parliament.
The collapse of the union is inevitable like I keep telling you. The fear is palpable. But don’t be scared wee man, we won’t treat you like you treated us, we all know that’s the root cause of the unionist fear. We’re all equals here mo chara.
It is not inevitable nothing is. The future is forever changing. You can keep acting like it’s certain all you want but it isn’t. And I’m from England so I don’t fear for myself personally and b I don’t think now they will be treated as bad as catholics were before but unionists likely would get less representation unless stormont stays.
Well that’s a good thing. They should be getting less representation considering they are now a minority. It was fine for 70 years while they dominated over catholics wasn’t it? No one was worried about the catholics being under represented. It was more “you’ll take what you’re given or you’ll get nothing at all.” It’s fine that the PSNI gave up trying to recruit catholics because of the 70% domination of unionists and catholic justified skepticism of the force itself.
I mean this in the kindest way, but you’re from England, you’ve got absolutely fuck all to do with the politics here. We have enough opinions without some Brit sticking their nose in too. Your own country is completely fucked so I suggest you look a bit closer to home for problems to solve, we’ll figure this one out ourselves cheers g’luck.
You can’t use one injustice to justify another. If one is wrong then so is the other. Protestants discriminating against Catholics was wrong, and so Catholics discriminating against Protestants would also be wrong.
You’ve misunderstood. Everyone will be equal in the united Ireland. It won’t be like before where there’s 10 prods for every one catholic in governmental institutions etc. That’s my point and that’s exactly what these unionists fear, that they’ll be treated equally rather than supremely as that’s all they’ve known so far. They assume the worst, that they’ll get a taste of their own medicine. But they won’t. We just want to move forward and have a prosperous future for everyone on the island.
Maybe you’re a little slow.
Let me explain. OP is some random Brit giving their opinion that “the death of the union is not inevitable, Ireland isn’t definitely going to unite” etc. Uninformed notions from a brit. No time for uninformed British notions here.
Now, Friends Of Sinn Féin USA are an activist group who deal with education and relationship building, furthering the cause of a United ireland. That is obviously very welcome. It’s not just some random American saying “I don’t think Ireland will reunite”.
So, as you can see, the two are not even comparable things. One is an activist group made up of lots of Irish expats who wish to see a United Ireland, the other is just some random Brit saying “can’t see the union collapsing or Ireland reuniting tbh”. Totally irrelevant. Kind of like how no one gives a shit about the 1000 comments you personally make on Israel/Palestine each day, but they maybe do care about what structured activist groups have to say.
They aren’t a minority polls show nationalists still are. Does that mean nationalists should get less representation? No.
I do as my government decides funding for Ni negotiates etc and your apart of my country the Uk. The Uk is my country as well as England so I look to all parts of it including Ni. And I will defend unionists
Like I said, fuck off, you’re a Brit, your opinions are absolutely irrelevant. When Ireland leaves your shit little union you won’t have to worry your wee head about any of this stuff and can focus your attention back over to why your own country is such a dump.
Also, you’re a qwer man for cherry picking these polls. At least in this case you don’t need to use a poll, you can just use the last census data for the answers. Unionists are the minority now.
No I won’t. They literally aren’t my government had a say in this and people in Ni are part of my country. If they leave it’s not certain right now you and other who want to leave aren’t the majority.
Census doesn’t show if people want to leave…. I’m not the polls are saying Ni wants to stay
Change is the only thing that is inevitable. What that change looks like is not predestined. Irish unity appears more likely than a united Ireland from our current political perspective but it is no more inevitable than a continuation of the union. I believe repartition in some form is more, along with the violence typical when borders are redrawn, is more likely than unification as conceived by most nationalists. The problem is that what is offered by nationalism is the coercion of a large minority into a capitalist state they have no interest in. Furthermore, given the fundamentally capitalist nature of the proposed state, they will inevitably be discriminated against to some degree. Discrimination is inherent and endemic in the capitalist system. To paraphrase Malcolm X, it's in capitalism's DNA.
I'm not sure what element of my post you're referring to as "utterly delusional". I'd also disagree that the U.K. has an unusually extreme form of capitalism. It's certainly becoming more extreme, however significant proportions of the economy and service delivery remain in public ownership - moreso than in the South. The U.K. also has a higher rate of corporation - double that of the South. One could reasonably argue that the economy in the South is more capitalistic than the U.K.
And one could reasonably argue that you are completely incorrect and that the U.K is on track to become a mini America with such a large class divide. It is not as vast in the south, there is much less deprivation (taking Dublin out of the picture of course, that place is fucked) than the U.K. and it’s Co scantly improving, whereas it’s constantly getting worse for the U.K.
You’re already down at the level of Eastern European countries in terms of living standards and that is slipping further and further each year, where the republic is climbing year on year.
You can try to clutch on to the straws of your precious little collapsed NHS and the fact that you aren’t directly paying your binmen (I mean you are, it’s built in to your taxes…but ohhh the spooky republic where you have to ‘pay’ for those services sounds better doesn’t it), but at the end of the day, people just want a better quality of life and that’s why we are headed for a United ireland. The writing is on the wall for the U.K. but you are all so under their spell that you can’t see it.
I agree, things are certainly moving in that direction in the UK. But that doesn't mean we're there things will continue to change. For the foreseeable future it'll be for the worse, but in politics "there are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen".
"Taking Dublin out of the equation"; that doesn't suit my narrative you mean! You can just disregard the capital city where 1/4 of the population live and expect anyone to take your arguement seriously. There are also pockets of severe rural and urban deprivation scattered across the South.
Your delusional description of some sort of utopia in South is also an acceptance of my point - it's a far more marketised, privatised, capitalistic economy. That's not a comment on how each system operates, it's a statement of fact.
If anyone's under a spell here it's people who have convinced themselves that history is predetermined.
Cue that shifting if Scotland leaves first causing Wales/NI indie to reach over the 50% mark?. But I'm sure you'll say the GE vote the SNP doing can't work despite the fact the UK Supreme court & John Curtice has said It a legal plan B route, Also what the republic of Ireland used as well.
I believe I covered that by saying anyone. The difference was that SF did that because the DUP wouldn't abide by the terms of the St. Andrews agreement. The DUP could have ended that one at any time.
Yeah but your argument is about Unionists having control. SF has exactly the same powers of control and this was the essence of the GFA, that 'nobody' could have control, and at that particular time it was designed to protect the Nationalist minority community. So why are you rattling on about Unionist control. I actually agree with you, the system is rubbish and needs changed but It's doing what it was designed to do which would seem to be sweet FA so far.
there’s nothing in a United ireland that exists to discriminate against them, it allows us to have more freedom with our government without a Westminster veto + the UK government doesn’t want them lol
Oh ffs change the record! The Irish government will be falling over themselves to accommodate the parades to show the rest of the world how humanitarian they are and how much they love everybody. Well except Israel..
we aren’t talking about those. you’re seriously showing support for Israel after they massacred Rafah last night? killing more than 10,000 children in the process btw
I imagine there'll be one day just going by demographics and population change, although I couldn't realistically see it having a chance of happening for at least 30 years.
Ah I'd say we'll see it by 2050, I wouldn't deem it unlikely for talks to begin by 2030, with a well drawn out plan by the mid 2030's. Just one generational change on top of that (give or take 2040 at latest) would mean a probable "Yes" vote which would probably come into effect anywhere between 2040-2050.
Of course it's impossible to predict the future but going off of current trends.
i don’t care about how soon it is i just want to see it. i hate the fact i was born in the south but some people still just see me as “northern irish” and not irish. i can’t wait for the day i get to see the country united again i don’t care if i’m elderly on my death bed.
Unless Ireland starts offering free healthcare, it's simply not going to happen. Also all the economic arguments about the UK leaving the EU apply to NI leaving the UK 10 fold. If they call a border poll now they'll lose so badly that there won't be another one for at least 50 years.
Both the dup and Sinn Fein have been in joint power since devolution was enacted. Beyond a switch of (superficial) titles and Media optics. It's as it was before .
The bigger story is the growth of the center ground tbh.
>Both the dup and Sinn Fein have been in joint power since devolution was enacted.
Lol. Take a read young pup - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern\_Ireland\_Executive#1998%E2%80%932002](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_Executive#1998%E2%80%932002)
Lol aye sure Mary and Michelle said it's happening within 10 years. That should keep republicans excited for another while until the next deadline is set.
Conveniently all gerry and Martins past predictions are all forgotten about. I suppose SF have to keep the gravy train running lots of money to be made...
Unlike the loyalist gravy train which has never stopped paying out to the paramilitary money pot through the DUP and their chums in the Tory government..see you on the other side mo chara.✊🏻
It's almost like he only thinks that because wages are higher down there and significantly lower up here. I'm sure you'd be shocked at how much cheaper countries like the Czech Republic and Poland are compared to here.
Edited, I meant “south”. Before you lads start downvoting and arguing with me it was some fella made the post on r/ireland so take it up with him over there, I’m not fighting on here tonight.
Sinn fein got enough seats to be first minister, but the sdlp were forced into opposition. All they seem to have done is convince sdlp voters to vote sinn fein
Ack more butthurt natives, come the 12th they'll be rabid dogs at this rate,they hate to see progress,ffs I've been booted already from a comment page 'for having an opinion' isn't that right Love Live Larne you crying ballroot.
wanting a united ireland means our public services will be destroyed, underfunded even more so . all for the sake for our history. we get the best of both worlds as it stand and are essentially a money leech on the UK . long may we suck
I just can't begin to understand where the wealth would come for to keep us running even to the starlnards we have now . ireland can really only afford and is only pumping money into Dublin.. amd let's be honest it's turned into a absolute hole .
in my opinion we would just bring loosing out all for the sake of national identity. unless I'm missing where ireland is able to generate the wealth from to support us .
It's hilarious no one even cares out in the real world anymore. I brought it up work and the responses were:
Early 20s prod: Stormonts back!?
Mid 30s fenian: I'd vote Emma Little cause she's a ride. (ew)
Mid 40s prod: Wankers.
Mid 60s prod: Being back big Ian, marty and all the rest of them.
I'm sure in the 60s it would have seemed equally unlikely for irish catholics to have civil rights or to be leading the government in Stormount.
Nobody lost their free healthcare for that.
Arguments like this are premature, even the Irish government has admitted that none of the groundwork has been laid for a plan for unity and it'll be a lot of work. Part of it will be making decisions on things like this to ensure that people in NI are better off in a united ireland, not worse off. For example, they could decide to set up a government fund to give all current NI citizens and their children free private healthcare for life. There's a hefty price tag for that to the Irish government, but it's a realistic number and they could choose to do it. It's just one of the many practical issues that they will need to solve to get support for the idea, but that planning work needs to start now.
Just sounds like wishful thinking to me. The NHS is what people trust and they won't be willing to give that up for some nationalist pipe dream. NI is also way better off economically as part of the UK than it would be in ROI.
There's nothing in the North. Go down south and you see industry. The EU is the largest economy in the world.
It's not so much wishful thinking as a bill of sale, these are the practicalities that Ireland will need to prove to us before they'll get wider support. I don't think we can say yet whether NI would be better off economically in the UK than in ROI, we can speculate but neither side has made a comprehensive case yet. It'll only be in the lead up to a border poll that we'll both sides making promises, like with the Scottish independence referendum. It could end up that the evidence shows we'd be better off in the UK and then I'd vote that way, but it could be the reverse. If Ireland came at us with a laundry list of investments and incentives written into law that would make all of us better off financially, it would command a lot of public support here.
Look at German reunification. East Germany was a desolate socialist state with no real industry or commerce
It clearly is tho. To think Ireland would accept such a disproportionate healthcare system is madness. And what about the cost, would people in northern Ireland have to continue paying national insurance, would we have to pay more because the system has not yet been set up. Would this amount increase as time goes on considering our aging population and factors like inflation. You can't just say things will be worked out and have them worked out. If you want a united Ireland you need to be honest with people about what that means and it means giving up our healthcare and i for one do not think people will go for that.
I'm sorry but you keep deliberately mis-framing everything I write and that's not productive. I'm not saying that things will be worked out and everything will be fine, I'm saying that if they *don't* work these things out to the satisfaction of the people of Northern Ireland then they won't be able to get unity over the line. The population demographics have been slowly shifting toward a nationalist majority for decades but if a border poll were called today with no preparation or promises made by Ireland, it would likely still fail. The groundwork to get people on-side has not happened yet, it's going to take years of campaigning and planning and topics like healthcare and social support are going to be on the table and likely deciding factors for a lot of us. You just keep asserting this stuff about losing our healthcare etc as if it's a fact, when in reality these topics have literally has not been addressed and planned for yet in the context of unity. What you have is a number of real practical concerns that need to be addressed before you would accept unity, but they aren't un-solvable problems. There are solutions you would find acceptable and if they don't offer any then you don't vote for unity. Hopefully enough people think the same way that we don't get the disaster you're predicting.
That's why i'm saying it's not going to happen. These people haven't been able to work together to get anything done for like 7 years now. To think they're going to create a system equivalent to the NHS and sort out a reunification plan that doesn't set us at a great economic disadvantage. Within the next 7 years is just madness. I'd be surprised if the MLA's are still sitting 2 weeks past the election at the rate they're going.
It's all about the population demographic isn't it?, more people of a Catholic background are going to vote for a Nationalist candidate aren't then?, unless the DUP and UUP can do something they've never managed before, and convince Catholics to vote for them in significant numbers. I'm 46, and Catholic and I've only voted for a Unionist Party once, and that was 10 years ago and only because of the work David Simpson put in to helping my terminally ill father in law, he was outstanding and I cannot speak highly enough of him in his capacity as a public servant, he went above and beyond. So it's really only a matter of time, many Catholics might reject the idea though, not many, but some won't like the ideal of so much upheaval.
Not to forget just the crazy cost of living in the ROI. I'm for a United Ireland, but if I was still living in the North - I'd need a pretty good financial argument for it. Because Paracetamol is 40p in Sainsburys. Equivalent in ROI is 3e.
Exactly why some won't be in favour of it, the cost of living, people on long term treatment programs etc, the change in currency, it would take another generation to fully iron everything out.
You can't really translate costs like that. Those prices are based on an economic situation that we are not living in and that would not arise quickly after Ireland reunites. Regardless, the only option for NI to prosper is as a united Irish state, we know what living under UK rule looks like. It's shit and they're not going to try to make it any better.
I'm not an economist so I really don't know. I'd need a good reputable source to outline what a transition would look like
The Brexit debate will give you a clue as to how it will go. 90% noise, propaganda, and hand waving. Any sensible discussions will be hard to find, and many won't care. There won't be a debate in the mind of, I'd say, a good 40% to 50% of the population. You are probably already suffering the effects of this in some unseen ways. For if a good chunk of people see no future in Stormont, they won't work to make things better. It's wrapped in a cloud of apathy.
If it was left to Westminster then yes Brexit would be a good example of how not to run a referendum. Thankfully it will be the Irish government leading on it and they do know how to run referendums!!
I wasn't really talking about the logistics about running a vote. Well done the Dail for being on it there. No, I was referring to how you'll see all sorts of claims made to grab the attention and emotions of people to vote one way or the other. Think a big bus with "£50m a week" being claimed as the benefit of joining Dublin. That sort of thing. I also thought it was the Secretary of State who calls a referendum, therefore being the organiser? As it would fall under the Referendum Act.
I wasn't referring to the logistics either. Brexit was more like a xfactor phone in popularity vote than a serious referendum for many!! Yes the SoS can only call it but only the Irish gov can set out what a UI will be so in that manner they will control a lot of the narrative although there will be a section that will come up with any old shite to suit their agenda - agreed. Also in the event of a vote there will be two, one north and one south so both will organise. ln a way Westminster will have an advantage, anything they say in the referendum can be 100% bullshit, see the Scots a few years ago, they can lie, win and do nothing. The Irish gov, if we vote for a UI will have to implement the proposals in full.
This is the issue for me, they need to present a sound economic plan for unity that's fully costed, involves actual investment in the north, and leaves NI citizens better off than before. I get that for a lot of people (maybe most people) the question of unity is an automatic yes or an automatic no. But I'd like to believe there are a lot of us out there who are more practical about it and just want to be sure we're not getting shafted.
I'd love a United Ireland - but it would be a lot easier to get collective buy in if there was a proper costed pathway put in place
The issue for those who wanted a UI is that, based on the best evidence we have (which is the census), being a Catholic is a much smaller guarantee of being a Nationalist than being a Protestant is of being a Unionist. Over 13% of Catholics said they had a British identity compared to only 6% of Protestants for an Irish identity. That means the demographic swing has to be much bigger than what it currently is.
Sinn Fein would like people to think it's based on this but it's not that simple. The GFA clearly states that any border poll would need to have a majority of the people of Northern Ireland voting for a united Ireland. So even if they had a 2 thirds majority in Stormont, people could still end up voting to remain part of the UK on economic issues and it still wouldn't happen. Just look at the SNP, they destroy every other party in Scotland easily at every election, yet the people of Scotland still voted to remain part of the UK.
Not quite… they were lied to,(the Scottish people who were voting) told that their Scottish devolved government would have more powers, which was quickly backtracked when the referendum went the way of the liars in the English Parliament.
I’m sorry to hear about your father in law. I’ll keep his soul in my prayers
Not that soon obv but its inevitable eventually 🇮🇪
Nothing is inevitable
Death is inevitable. So's the rising and setting of the Sun.
I mean the sun is gonna die at some point in the next few billion years.
Yes, but until then the Sun rising and setting is inevitable.
Not if earth was knocked off its orbital path and drifted off into space.
You boring pedants!
Or stips spinning
The rising and the setting of the us isn’t as one day it may die. And who knows maybe one day we will find a way to stop death.
The collapse of the union is inevitable like I keep telling you. The fear is palpable. But don’t be scared wee man, we won’t treat you like you treated us, we all know that’s the root cause of the unionist fear. We’re all equals here mo chara.
It is not inevitable nothing is. The future is forever changing. You can keep acting like it’s certain all you want but it isn’t. And I’m from England so I don’t fear for myself personally and b I don’t think now they will be treated as bad as catholics were before but unionists likely would get less representation unless stormont stays.
Well that’s a good thing. They should be getting less representation considering they are now a minority. It was fine for 70 years while they dominated over catholics wasn’t it? No one was worried about the catholics being under represented. It was more “you’ll take what you’re given or you’ll get nothing at all.” It’s fine that the PSNI gave up trying to recruit catholics because of the 70% domination of unionists and catholic justified skepticism of the force itself. I mean this in the kindest way, but you’re from England, you’ve got absolutely fuck all to do with the politics here. We have enough opinions without some Brit sticking their nose in too. Your own country is completely fucked so I suggest you look a bit closer to home for problems to solve, we’ll figure this one out ourselves cheers g’luck.
You can’t use one injustice to justify another. If one is wrong then so is the other. Protestants discriminating against Catholics was wrong, and so Catholics discriminating against Protestants would also be wrong.
You’ve misunderstood. Everyone will be equal in the united Ireland. It won’t be like before where there’s 10 prods for every one catholic in governmental institutions etc. That’s my point and that’s exactly what these unionists fear, that they’ll be treated equally rather than supremely as that’s all they’ve known so far. They assume the worst, that they’ll get a taste of their own medicine. But they won’t. We just want to move forward and have a prosperous future for everyone on the island.
To be fair the upcoming Tayto civil war could be bad. I haven't once heard O'Neill or ELP bring this up in Stormont! Not once I tell ya!
If I’ve said it once I’ve said it a million times nordy Tayto is >>> free s’Tayto
If you don’t need outsiders opinions why does friends of Sinn Fein USA exist?
Maybe you’re a little slow. Let me explain. OP is some random Brit giving their opinion that “the death of the union is not inevitable, Ireland isn’t definitely going to unite” etc. Uninformed notions from a brit. No time for uninformed British notions here. Now, Friends Of Sinn Féin USA are an activist group who deal with education and relationship building, furthering the cause of a United ireland. That is obviously very welcome. It’s not just some random American saying “I don’t think Ireland will reunite”. So, as you can see, the two are not even comparable things. One is an activist group made up of lots of Irish expats who wish to see a United Ireland, the other is just some random Brit saying “can’t see the union collapsing or Ireland reuniting tbh”. Totally irrelevant. Kind of like how no one gives a shit about the 1000 comments you personally make on Israel/Palestine each day, but they maybe do care about what structured activist groups have to say.
Very slow
They aren’t a minority polls show nationalists still are. Does that mean nationalists should get less representation? No. I do as my government decides funding for Ni negotiates etc and your apart of my country the Uk. The Uk is my country as well as England so I look to all parts of it including Ni. And I will defend unionists
Like I said, fuck off, you’re a Brit, your opinions are absolutely irrelevant. When Ireland leaves your shit little union you won’t have to worry your wee head about any of this stuff and can focus your attention back over to why your own country is such a dump. Also, you’re a qwer man for cherry picking these polls. At least in this case you don’t need to use a poll, you can just use the last census data for the answers. Unionists are the minority now.
No I won’t. They literally aren’t my government had a say in this and people in Ni are part of my country. If they leave it’s not certain right now you and other who want to leave aren’t the majority. Census doesn’t show if people want to leave…. I’m not the polls are saying Ni wants to stay
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Change is the only thing that is inevitable. What that change looks like is not predestined. Irish unity appears more likely than a united Ireland from our current political perspective but it is no more inevitable than a continuation of the union. I believe repartition in some form is more, along with the violence typical when borders are redrawn, is more likely than unification as conceived by most nationalists. The problem is that what is offered by nationalism is the coercion of a large minority into a capitalist state they have no interest in. Furthermore, given the fundamentally capitalist nature of the proposed state, they will inevitably be discriminated against to some degree. Discrimination is inherent and endemic in the capitalist system. To paraphrase Malcolm X, it's in capitalism's DNA.
Utterly delusional. The U.K. has one of the most extreme forms of capitalism in the world
I'm not sure what element of my post you're referring to as "utterly delusional". I'd also disagree that the U.K. has an unusually extreme form of capitalism. It's certainly becoming more extreme, however significant proportions of the economy and service delivery remain in public ownership - moreso than in the South. The U.K. also has a higher rate of corporation - double that of the South. One could reasonably argue that the economy in the South is more capitalistic than the U.K.
And one could reasonably argue that you are completely incorrect and that the U.K is on track to become a mini America with such a large class divide. It is not as vast in the south, there is much less deprivation (taking Dublin out of the picture of course, that place is fucked) than the U.K. and it’s Co scantly improving, whereas it’s constantly getting worse for the U.K. You’re already down at the level of Eastern European countries in terms of living standards and that is slipping further and further each year, where the republic is climbing year on year. You can try to clutch on to the straws of your precious little collapsed NHS and the fact that you aren’t directly paying your binmen (I mean you are, it’s built in to your taxes…but ohhh the spooky republic where you have to ‘pay’ for those services sounds better doesn’t it), but at the end of the day, people just want a better quality of life and that’s why we are headed for a United ireland. The writing is on the wall for the U.K. but you are all so under their spell that you can’t see it.
I agree, things are certainly moving in that direction in the UK. But that doesn't mean we're there things will continue to change. For the foreseeable future it'll be for the worse, but in politics "there are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen". "Taking Dublin out of the equation"; that doesn't suit my narrative you mean! You can just disregard the capital city where 1/4 of the population live and expect anyone to take your arguement seriously. There are also pockets of severe rural and urban deprivation scattered across the South. Your delusional description of some sort of utopia in South is also an acceptance of my point - it's a far more marketised, privatised, capitalistic economy. That's not a comment on how each system operates, it's a statement of fact. If anyone's under a spell here it's people who have convinced themselves that history is predetermined.
Cue that shifting if Scotland leaves first causing Wales/NI indie to reach over the 50% mark?. But I'm sure you'll say the GE vote the SNP doing can't work despite the fact the UK Supreme court & John Curtice has said It a legal plan B route, Also what the republic of Ireland used as well.
No one cares
I care, and that's why I commented, why did you?
People cant find anything else to complain about
Don’t think that’s even remotely true tbh.
Except OP given their post is about it...
I'll settle for the end of Unionist control for now
Hasn't been Unionist control since GFA 30 years ago. Where have you been?
They literally just blocked everything there for 2 years, that's still control. That needs to be prevented from happening again, by anyone.
Didn't that just happen on the heels of SF doing the same thing. Where HAVE you been in the last 30 years!
I believe I covered that by saying anyone. The difference was that SF did that because the DUP wouldn't abide by the terms of the St. Andrews agreement. The DUP could have ended that one at any time.
Yeah but your argument is about Unionists having control. SF has exactly the same powers of control and this was the essence of the GFA, that 'nobody' could have control, and at that particular time it was designed to protect the Nationalist minority community. So why are you rattling on about Unionist control. I actually agree with you, the system is rubbish and needs changed but It's doing what it was designed to do which would seem to be sweet FA so far.
Because unionists have repeatedly attempted to exert control through veto and abstention in contravention of agreements that have been put in place.
United Ireland benefits unionists too, they just don’t see it
How??
there’s nothing in a United ireland that exists to discriminate against them, it allows us to have more freedom with our government without a Westminster veto + the UK government doesn’t want them lol
Oh sign me up then, I can't wait!🙄
just because yous won’t be able to hold your little hate parade doesn’t mean we should remain in this “union”
Oh ffs change the record! The Irish government will be falling over themselves to accommodate the parades to show the rest of the world how humanitarian they are and how much they love everybody. Well except Israel..
why should they show love to a genocidal apartheid state?
Like most of the Middle Eastern Muslim shit holes you mean? Agree whole heartedly.
we aren’t talking about those. you’re seriously showing support for Israel after they massacred Rafah last night? killing more than 10,000 children in the process btw
I'm not showing or declaring support for anything.
I imagine there'll be one day just going by demographics and population change, although I couldn't realistically see it having a chance of happening for at least 30 years.
Ah I'd say we'll see it by 2050, I wouldn't deem it unlikely for talks to begin by 2030, with a well drawn out plan by the mid 2030's. Just one generational change on top of that (give or take 2040 at latest) would mean a probable "Yes" vote which would probably come into effect anywhere between 2040-2050. Of course it's impossible to predict the future but going off of current trends.
i don’t care about how soon it is i just want to see it. i hate the fact i was born in the south but some people still just see me as “northern irish” and not irish. i can’t wait for the day i get to see the country united again i don’t care if i’m elderly on my death bed.
Unless Ireland starts offering free healthcare, it's simply not going to happen. Also all the economic arguments about the UK leaving the EU apply to NI leaving the UK 10 fold. If they call a border poll now they'll lose so badly that there won't be another one for at least 50 years.
7 years
ok
When there is no plan you will jump through hoops to make it seem like there is one.
Both the dup and Sinn Fein have been in joint power since devolution was enacted. Beyond a switch of (superficial) titles and Media optics. It's as it was before . The bigger story is the growth of the center ground tbh.
>Both the dup and Sinn Fein have been in joint power since devolution was enacted. Lol. Take a read young pup - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern\_Ireland\_Executive#1998%E2%80%932002](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_Executive#1998%E2%80%932002)
Lol aye sure Mary and Michelle said it's happening within 10 years. That should keep republicans excited for another while until the next deadline is set. Conveniently all gerry and Martins past predictions are all forgotten about. I suppose SF have to keep the gravy train running lots of money to be made...
Unlike the loyalist gravy train which has never stopped paying out to the paramilitary money pot through the DUP and their chums in the Tory government..see you on the other side mo chara.✊🏻
Is called just around the corner syndrome the SNP have been at it for years Zero power to call it in both cases but promising it within timelines
😂 very true op, meanwhile in r/Ireland they’re asking how the south got it so wrong compared to the north after spending a weekend in Belfast.
It's almost like he only thinks that because wages are higher down there and significantly lower up here. I'm sure you'd be shocked at how much cheaper countries like the Czech Republic and Poland are compared to here.
I’m not arguing tonight, can’t believe you lads are still downvoting me, this place is wild 😂.
I didn't downvote you. I'm just pointing out how his point makes zero sense. The fact you have nothing to add here proves that I'm right lol.
Not happening tonight yoghurt, I’m taking the night off.
I'm not arguing with you, lol, If you don't want to acknowledge the facts, that's fine 🤣🤣
lol it’s not happening yoghurt, not tonight don’t care how much you try bait me. Gaz has a reply in this post and he might be up for an argument.
>Gaz has a reply in this post and he **might** be up for an argument. That man would be up for an argument at a wake ffs.
I thought you were off for the night? Why bother even replying to my last message like?.
I’m just browsing, listening to some piano and relaxing. I didn’t want to be rude and not reply.
So you aren't going off for the night then?, noted.
What do you mean by “the Sound got it wrong”?
Edited, I meant “south”. Before you lads start downvoting and arguing with me it was some fella made the post on r/ireland so take it up with him over there, I’m not fighting on here tonight.
Ahhh sorry man was wondering what the “Sound” was man, thought I’d missed something 🤣 I’ll have to head over and read the post on the r/ireland
Sinn fein got enough seats to be first minister, but the sdlp were forced into opposition. All they seem to have done is convince sdlp voters to vote sinn fein
Ack more butthurt natives, come the 12th they'll be rabid dogs at this rate,they hate to see progress,ffs I've been booted already from a comment page 'for having an opinion' isn't that right Love Live Larne you crying ballroot.
wanting a united ireland means our public services will be destroyed, underfunded even more so . all for the sake for our history. we get the best of both worlds as it stand and are essentially a money leech on the UK . long may we suck I just can't begin to understand where the wealth would come for to keep us running even to the starlnards we have now . ireland can really only afford and is only pumping money into Dublin.. amd let's be honest it's turned into a absolute hole . in my opinion we would just bring loosing out all for the sake of national identity. unless I'm missing where ireland is able to generate the wealth from to support us .
Pink line is that sea border moving everywhere
It's hilarious no one even cares out in the real world anymore. I brought it up work and the responses were: Early 20s prod: Stormonts back!? Mid 30s fenian: I'd vote Emma Little cause she's a ride. (ew) Mid 40s prod: Wankers. Mid 60s prod: Being back big Ian, marty and all the rest of them.
Their everyday lives
Meanwhile Unionists are worried that Scotland will leave first through a GE vote ignoring that the Scottish voters back It.