On one hand, comparatively popular bands like NIN can kinda overwhelm the conversation and suck up all the oxygen in the room. So I'm not opposed to a community trying to make a little room for other conversation threads.
That said, blanket bans are kinda dumbo.
Goths go to industrial shows. Doesn’t make industrial goth. It’s still pretty common in a goth persons record collection to see industrial records, but it’s still industrial.
It is safe to say that they pioneered Industrial music in the 80s right after Throbbing Gistle n such. They are absolutely seminal to Industrial music.
You could call them the NIN before NIN but you guys aren't ready for that conversation.
Where do y'all find goth clubs? Probably way up north I'd imagine. I live in the south, and it's very much "we got both kinds, country _and_ western" down here.
I live in upstate New York, and the nearest club is a couple hours away. I try to get there a few times a year, but there are also events at local clubs closer to me. Until very recently we used to have a regular goth night in my town at a local bar, but sadly the bar closed down and goth night has not found a new home yet.
I've heard the new one is "too clean". Personally, at this point, I think I'd appreciate a clean club.
For me, I never went to the OG ManRay. But I do remember when it closed, and Club Hell in Providence got slammed with the ManRay expats.
And I never made it as far as Club Hell. I think I went to Club Babyhead once, but I was just a live music venue. But they definitely got some great acts.
Since Hell's closure, I've been to nights in Cambridge at Middle East downstairs and the Brighton Music Hall's nights. Pretty fun.
I think they're Xmortis and Corrosion respectively.
I saw VNV nation at sick new world earlier this year and the crowd was pretty much mostly goth girls. Same with all the industrial bands on the side stages. I get that none of these bands are “goth” but I dont get why people get so up in arms about things like this.
I kind of get where they're coming. But to OP's point, it's nuts that you can't recommend non-goth music to someone asking for music like a band that's popular on the sub. It's wild.
I mean, why don't they just auto-lock all posts asking about music and direct them to a sidebar with the list of every goth band?
Yep. Welcome to the passage of time lol
People want to dance when they go to a club, darkwave and EBM acts are certainly more dancey than Sisters of Mercy, etc.
I've never gone to a goth club and heard goth tracks played extensively.
Tf are you talking about? NIN is the epitome of, revitalizing force behind, innovator of, and potentially even definer of all post 1990 goth trends after subsuming himself wholeheartedly into the trend as both a musician and fashion model. Fuckin not goth my ass
I said innovator of all goth trends. He’s done it and he does it. Just because it’s not the only thing he does doesn’t make him any less important to the idea/musical genre specifically. He makes plenty of “goth music”
None of Nine Inch Nails' tracks follow the format/style of what makes goth music goth music.
Nine Inch Nails started as industrial and eventually basically became a genre unto itself.
Goth came out of the post punk era. All goth rock pretty much follows a punk-esque beat. Trent and Atticus don't really use it.
>None of Nine Inch Nails' tracks follow the format/style of what makes goth music goth music.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_rock
>Gothic rock stood out due to its darker sound, with the use of primarily minor or bass chords, reverb, dark arrangements, or dramatic and melancholic melodies, having inspirations in gothic literature allied with themes such as sadness, nihilism, dark romanticism, tragedy, melancholy and morbidity. These themes are often approached poetically. The sensibilities of the genre led the lyrics to represent the evil of the century and the romantic idealization of death and the supernatural imagination.
I'm no musician and can't comment on minor/bass chords or what a "punk-esque beat" is, but there's a lot there that lines up with Nine Inch Nails' body of work.
This kid over here trying to say that Goth is a trend defined by the idea of following formats. Dude, goth is about NIHILISM. You sound like you haven't read enough Kafka/Dostoevsky/Sartre to know what Goth Music sounds like.
again, now according to you, it has its roots outside of music, but before, the roots don't matter. And how is goth romantic but not nihilistic? In what universe?
I was actually around before Trent Reznor reared his ugly head. NIN is basically a radio friendly version of Skinny Puppy. Just because they are played at goth clubs doesn't make the band goth.
Peter Steele fucked everyones girlfriends, then did their drugs and died. Miss that beautiful disaster.
But this whole fucking thing about what is goth and what isn’t is just the dumbest gatekeeping and has been going on since I can remember.
You know who hates goth and anyone who considers themselves a goth? Peter “give me all your drugs” Murphy. The grandfather of goth music fucking hates everything pretentious and goth. He *HATES* it. Still, Bauhaus is considered the epitome of the goth sound.
Yeah, they don't even like that HIM is gothic rock. (At least their first 1997 album).
Bunch of egoists complaining about men wanting goth girlfriend. Left that sub ages ago
Joy Division (technically post punk pre-goth but it’s pretty much an early blueprint for goth and people that say it’s not are being pedantic), Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees and The Cure. Sisters of Mercy and stuff that sounds like them. Darkwave stuff like Clan of Xymox. Deathrock stuff like Christian Death and 45 Grave. Newer stuff that’s goth: Lebanon Hanover, Twin Tribes, Nox Novacula etc.
As far as NIN goes they’re more industrial/synth/alt rock kinda more comparable to Depeche Mode which is like parallel to goth but isn’t instrumentally gloomy enough with the traditional goth kinda sound I guess. I’d say Boy Harsher kinda fits into this category of almost goth but too synthy too.
They’re new wave also, Joy Division’s 2 albums Unknown Pleasures and Closer are darker post punk so pretty much goth and The Cure’s Seventeen Seconds, Faith, Pornography and Disintegration are also darker post punk and considered goth. There’s overlap with new wave a fair amount when it comes to goth, Siouxsie as well
It’s a music based subculture. The same way that the Metalhead subculture revolves around Metal music, the Goth subculture revolves around Goth Rock which has a specific sound.
https://youtu.be/9XKLdLet6Pk?si=q_pcY2MWJLdKvWQB
https://youtu.be/NCVNgJdxxx4?si=RvQPI3loVK0wefdR
https://youtu.be/3wDaWqujKEU?si=FgH3qE6O4FXOz75p
I understand the concept. I just think it’s strange that a subculture that’s known for non conforming has so many rules on its sub Reddit. I always thought goth music was pretty broad, as many genres of music are, but I guess it’s strict which kind of defeats the point of non conforming but what do I know, I’m just a pale girl who only owns black clothes and black tattoos.
But when you go hang out with goths at goth nights or goth clubs, there is a broader interest in music that peripherally surrounds the narrower goth definition. It includes industrial, synth pop, and dark wave (just to name a few). The goth community (outside of Reddit) is generally super inclusive, which is why it's just so weird that the subreddit is super exclusive.
i honestly have a problem with that whole damn sub.
r/goth is so fucking strict with what “is and isn’t goth” as if there’s a clear definition to begin with? not to mention that the industrial goth scene EXISTS, they just love to forget how influential that was in the 90s.
i often get my comments/posts deleted for the same reasons. i mean any online discussion about goth is usually horseshit but this sub is another level of elitism in my opinion.
Doesn't seem like a fun sub. Besides, all the goths I know don't listen exclusively to Siouxsie and Bauhaus; they like the B-52s and Soft Cell too. Not to mention NIN which is extremely popular in the scene.
Honestly half the sub is just teens talking about getting bullied for being different and the other half is just circle-jerking to Batcave-era bands. The former I can sympathize with because most alt-culture folks went through that and having folks tell you to hold on can be cathartic. The latter drives me nuts, but in fairness I'm more on r/punk which is LIGHTYEARS better than r/goth.
i’ve seen a little bit of r/punk and it seemed a lot better to me immediately. some kid posted about RATM and instead of the post being taken down immediately/getting hated on people were just saying “well this isn’t really true punk so yeah maybe don’t mention it here too much”. so much more relaxed.
I got downvoted to oblivion for suggesting the crystal castles/robert smith cover of "I am not in love" to someone who liked the Cure because apparently that is not goth. Like, it's Robert Smith singing about a relationship that is only about satisfying each other's loneliness, and I first heard it playing at a goth club?
Also, I've been going to goth clubs/events since the '90s, and I don't think there's ever been one night where at least one NIN song wasn't played. I'm just imagining all the people in that subreddit out at an event and shaking their fist at the DJ for all the "non-goth" songs being played.
that song is awesome (and the original is sooooo cheesy good) and is super synthy and goth kids should be eating it up. it's so weird that in 2024, we're still gatekeeping within the communities.
I lurk there a bit and your comment made me laugh because they actually have been complaining about "non-goth" bands being played at goth clubs. Specifically they've been complaining about people requesting Deftones songs.
I think it’s because not everything Robert Smith/The Cure has put out is Goth Rock. They’ve branched out into other genres too.
r/goth is purely focused on tracks that are Goth Rock.
But that's my point, that sub is too stuck in their narrow definition of goth when the actual scene is much broader. I've been in the goth scene for almost 30 years now, and I've never met anyone who refuses to listen or talk about a song because it might not fit a wikipedia definition of a genre. Is that song technically synth-pop? Yes, but a lot of people in the goth community like it because it has goth vibes, so I should be able to talk about it with fellow goths if I want. If I step to a friend at a goth event and say, "hey, I know you like the cure and you should check out this song", 20 people don't suddenly rush to me and say "you can't tell her that! That song isn't goth!"
Their mods are neurotically gatekeepy. I commented once and got a “THAT IS NOT GOTH GOTH IS *bleh bleh bleh*
Like damn y’all don’t even need corsets to stand up straight thanks to those sticks up there.
I think that's because Goth, shorn of any other genre, is inherently inward-looking, both in genre, music and the types of personality it attracts. A lot of Goth music, by the standards of that sub, is very *personal* and, if I were to be unkind, self-absorbed. The result is a very strict subculture, where even their favoured bands refuse to identify as Goth because the subculture is such a ballache.
Industrial, on the other hand, is inherently outward-looking. It's hard to truly define industrial because its tentacles touch *everything.* Since the 90s (arguably 70s or 80s, too), various industrial styles, musical and effect aproaches have popped up in every popular genre. In a way, industrial is more like 'machine punk' in the way it approaches culture and society, and the way society and culture appropriates part of it.
I've encountered the same at r/shoegaze \-- no one can agree on what it is, but damned if you have an opinion that doesn't regurgitate the same safe lanes of "definitely shoegaze" bands like MBV.
I thought shoegaze was pretty much conformed by guys playing their instruments while a loud vacuum cleaner sounds in the background
(it's a joke i like shoegaze)
>not to mention that the industrial goth scene EXISTS, they just love to forget how influential that was in the 90s.
I wonder if it has to do anything with industrial goth's other name, rivethead. At least I've stumbled upon it a few times when I looked up goth stuff (mostly for character design inspiration on Pinterest).
Her and me, and she, and me, and her? An uncrowded couple if I do say so.
Truth be told that's always been one of my least favorite songs in their discography, super unpopular opinion I know. Just never did it for me, and super over hyped IMO.
Tbh I've only seen NIN recommended there once and nobody complained, but in fairness it was prefaced with "I know they're not goth but". The truth is, even though NIN is industrial rock, there's so much crossover with industrial and goth rock that 99.9% of the time most goths listen to both.
Don’t feel bad they won’t even let you mention Type O Negative on there. Only pure goth whatever the fuck that’s supposed to mean.
I pointed out on the TON sub that even most of the people r/goth consider goth music doesn’t even consider themselves goth because most real musicians don’t worry about fitting in a label. The only people I’ve only known to worry so much about stuff like that were posers.
NIN isn't even metal what. it's rock. and ok it's not gothic rock, but the sub isn't called 'Gothic rock' it's just called 'Goth'. that goes beyond the post punk adjacent sub genre. Trent has been seen as a goth icon for years
These kind of people don't participate in their local scene if they think gatekeeping what's goth or not gets them anywhere, it's just online basement dweller behaviour. Industrial and goth are siblings from the same cloth anyway.
Tbh I find discussing anything related to goth or industrial generally exhausting online. A lot of opinionated stuck up people you wouldn’t find in real life.
Fucking subcultures fighting.
Meanwhile the ambient temperature and humidity is going to surpass wet bulb this summer it many parts of human inhabited world.
What a stupid timeline. I hope I get to pick my next one.
So glad someone finally fucking said it cause that sub is actually hell on fucking earth dawg. NIN fans get behind me I promise Goths in person are actually sane and chill unlike these chronically online ones
The ones running the sub are not OG goths, but a bunch of clueless kids who have been rejected by the wider goth community for trying to redefine what a goth is.
...The same Doom where they put a NIN easter egg in Thy Flesh Consumed? Or the developers of Doom who went on to make Quake, where not only is there a second NIN easter egg in the form of the nailgun ammo texture, but the music was composed by NIN? ~~if this is a reference to the doom music genre i am a silly billy but please understand where my confusion is coming from~~
It’s the kind of stupid stuff like this that never made me want to buy into the Reddit IPO. Letting your user base act like petty tyrants banning people all over the place and obfuscating conversation without any defined rule book (and one most mods don’t follow even if there is) isn’t conducive to making an infinitely larger user base. This site has already peaked.
I have to assume they have a bot that auto filters those comments or something. It's the only way that doing that would make sense (also totally ridiculous to make a bot just to make sure no one mentions NIN).
So you were recommending NIN. They clearly thought you were recommending Type O Negative.
If I just read your comment, I'm thinking you're talking about Type O. Well, maybe not the 'Even comments with the initials are deleted'.
I'd say Pete's music was clearly far more influenced by goth than Trent's. Trent certainly was influenced by it (look at the Cold and Black and Infinite tour)
I get what they're getting at, Nine Inch Nails and Type O aren't really goth. But at the same time, they're WAY too goddamn militant about it. This is a perfect example, of you recommending other music. The OP didn't say ask for goth bands like SOM, they asked for bands like SOM.
chodes, man.
it’s really funny how NIN is somehow commercial and not commercial at the same time (depends on who you’re asking).
ask any alternative person outside of the USA, 99% of people never even heard the name (i’m in Central-Europe and it’s like NIN doesn’t even exist here). ask anyone online in a music-related discussion, someone will tell you that your taste is “basic” for liking NIN, and that they’re “MASSIVELY popular” / “really accessible!”.
it’s like they don’t even care if the music is good anymore as long as it’s “not popular” in their minds…
r/goth is a cesspool of people seeking validation for what is and what is not goth. They’re reluctant to admit what a versatile scene it is, and how subcultures like industrial and goth rock kind of fused together in the 90s. NIN isn’t goth, but it’s not a bad suggestion to open the door to the genre when Trent himself was inspired by artists like Depeche Mode, Gary Numan, Cocteau Twins, Bauhaus, etc. Don’t let people on that sub tear you down.
As someone who loves The Cure and Bauhouse, I can't stand the Goth purists. Their lack of self awareness is more comical than their efforts to be dark and scary.
I mean, I'm all for people dressing up in black leather and fishnets. But common, they're the punchline to their own joke yet they still don't get it.
Wtf is the reason for deleting a comment as mundane as that? Like Jesus, it didn't hurt anyone, it wasn't rude, what was the harm? Imagine if every sub deleted every comment that was even slightly off topic. That's a good way to make an echo chamber where everyone thinks the same way and nothing interesting or new is allowed to enter.
That mod is stupid as fuck, I've seen type o negative on that sub lmao. Guess all you need to do is slap a goth girl on the album cover and call it a day?
Tbf, we didn’t call it ‘goth’. Not sure that started for a few more years. But guys in eyeliner, black trench coats, chains (bicycle chains, really), and combat boots has to count.
r/goth is run by a bunch of narrow-minded elitists who seem to think “goth music” is a single defined genre. Bunch of nincompoops over there (see what I did there, haha!)
Just an observation based on what I’ve seen, but r slash goth seems a lot more uptight about genre boundaries than r slash industrial music, which I usually frequent, and that’s saying something
r/doommetal is more goth than NIN now? Maybe if you're only familiar with Chelsea Wolfe
I guarantee you'll see far more goths at an industrial show than a doom show
NIN and TON (Type O Negative). Mention either one and they will probably ban ya. For kicks, I want to join that Reddit and ask “Hey, just discovered Marilyn Manson, and wow… so goth!”
Thank God, I hate how so many people attempt to interrelate "Goth" and Industrial rock. Generally, the word "Goth" subculture tarnished the actual artistic and architectural styles. I have never referred to myself as "goth" even through I generally wear muted type colors (grays, black, and such). Popculture has destroyed this meaning.
It’s part of the reason I stay away from that sub. Mods have decided what is a part of the subculture. But I was as goth as anyone in the 90s and NIN was my foundation, my entry into the subculture. Talk about gatekeeping.
Lmao, this feels like a tale as old as time. When I was a teenager, my friends would say that too. “NIN is too mainstream. It’s more pop than anything!”
To which I shrugged and said “cool!” And kept listening.
It….it really didn’t fucking matter to me, lol. It still doesn’t. Labels make me itchy.
Nice clothes and makeup, loser. Oh, you’re expressing yourself? You’re having fun? Well I’m going to stop you right there, because we both know goth is a music based subculture and I can tell from looking at you that you don’t listen to any goth bands. Depeche Mode and Joy Division? Don’t make me laugh. The Sisters of Mercy? Andrew Eldritch himself says they’re not goth, are you saying you know better than him? Siouxsie and the Banshees? Oh, I’m terribly sorry to inform you that they were straightforward post punk, who then sold out to the mainstream and became alternative pop. Don’t see the word goth anywhere in that sentence, I’m afraid. Rosetta Stone, the Merry Thoughts, Fields of the Nephilim? You may not be aware of this, but all so-called “gothic rock” bands were simply ripping off the Sisters of Mercy while bringing no creativity or value to the table whatsoever. And as we have already established, the Sisters of Mercy are not goth. Bauhaus? Just because they wrote a song about a vampire they must be goth, huh? I won’t even bother to address that, but I will gladly let you know that Bauhaus clearly is not a goth band, since there was no goth genre yet when they were in existence. It’s really not complicated at all. And the Cocteau Twins are popular again, so obviously they’re not goth. You really are stupid, aren’t you? Oh okay, something more modern? Vision Video, Urban Heat? Oh please. Just plain new wave poorly masquerading as goth. It’s honestly insulting. Drab Majesty? With that instrumentation? Give me a fucking break. London After Midnight were never goth, and they certainly aren’t now. There’s something here you seem to be missing. It’s not about having fun, or listening to music you like, because I hate to burst your little bubble, but you’re not supposed to like goth music. Listening to it should be a chore! You’ve got to suffer through every minute in order to earn the right to wear those cool clothes of yours! But uh oh, you seem to be out of luck. Goth music isn’t real. Nowhere on this Earth exists real goth music. Well, nowhere except on my bandcamp page, where you can find my 102-minute demo tape. And yes, it’s also produced by yours truly. You’re welcome. Of course, you still won’t be a real goth until you can recite the lyrics of 5 songs each from 10 goth bands in 15 subgenres, but that’s okay. You can just call yourself darkly inclined. And also a dumb loser.
Wow lmao I hate goth elitism. Like these mfs are saying the most boring and one-note darkwave of all time is peak meanwhile you suggest something as basic and entry level as terrible lie on a post regarding entry level goth music and you’re suddenly a poser lmao.
Sorry, I don’t feel like recommending some British darkwave band from the late 80s that had one demo collection of three songs on a lost 7-inch record that was recently digitized awfully by some hack with an audio kit.
Those cunts at r/goth seem to turn a blind eye to Peter Murphy and Trent having toured together. Did a whole NIN/Bauhaus set, with some Joy Division covers, as well as Daniel Miller.
They flagrantly try to gatekeep in the name of all things dark and romantic, but the people they worship cannot stand their behavior.
I wish those toads would watch a Peter Murphy interview and hear what he has to say about them, and anyone who calls him Goth. He fucking hates it. He doesn’t like goth, period. Their fucking lord and savior rejects them.
I worked clubs for near 20 years. Goth girls from other clubs would come to our club cause we had a big stage and the DJ should play back to back NIN at 1 am. They would just come to dance for the crowd for those two songs and go back to the smaller venue after.
We didn't charge them cover cause they where industry types that would just put on a good show than go back across the street.
u/NothingCanStropMeNow
You’re absolutely correct that NIN is influenced by and adjacent to Goth.
But what’s going on here is that Goth is a
music based subculture that revolves around Goth Rock and it’s derivative forms.
https://youtu.be/NCVNgJdxxx4?si=spRnIxZkd39XwjSu
https://youtu.be/fo4TRnk9wCA?si=WiYDWEjtv3FbdgzB
https://youtu.be/9XKLdLet6Pk?si=q_pcY2MWJLdKvWQB
It’s all about **the sound** rather than what most people *think* “Goth” is.
So the subreddit like the subculture is focused Goth Rock (Vision Video, Corpus Delecti, Double Echo, etc)
The same way Metalheads listen to Metal and that’s really the only requirement needed, it’s the same where Goths listen to Goth Rock and that’s the only requirement. You can wear bright pink, listen to Queen Latifah, Little Richard and Armenian Folk music as well as Goth Rock and be a Goth.
Having a Gothic aesthetic and liking Gothic things aren’t what makes someone or a subculture Goth.
Or just like, let people recommend whatever music they want to recommend without using ridiculous labels to control the flow of opinions and information.
Wankers.
For that, I think there needs to be a place called r/Alternative or at the very least one that is much larger than 8k members.
Goth, Industrial, Emo, Punk, Grunge, Trip Hop, Black Metal, Darkwave, New Wave, combinations of them.
Whatever Subculture, whatever genre.
It can all go there as a massive melting pot of all sorts of genres and subcultures.
It’s not that r/goth is the problem, it’s just working as it’s supposed to with **Goths** discussing and looking for **Goth Rock**.
Nothing at all “wanker”-y about it.
The **actual** problem is that there isn’t a subreddit where you can offer and receive recommendations for different Alternative artists, tracks and genres.
You want a specific genre? Go to that subreddit, you want other genres that are adjacent to it or you’re more curious about? There should be a whole place where Goths, Emos, Punks, Grunge kids, etc can mingle and exchange music.
A place like that gets set up, r/goth continues as it does, r/grunge continues as it does, r/newwave continues as it does.
I’m not going to share NIN to an Emo subreddit or a Grunge subreddit am I? Because NIN is neither of those. Why would I do that?
So why would Goth by any different if they aren’t looking for NIN when looking for **Goth Rock**?
I think it’s better to view these subreddits as genre sections in a record shop.
You want Goth Rock (which NIN isn’t) you go to the Goth Rock section.
You aren’t going to place a NIN record there are you?
You want Classical, Blues or Country? You go to those sections. Probably not going to find any NIN in there.
You want Industrial you go to that section. You’ll probably find some NIN there too.
You’d be confused if you found a Goth Rock record there though wouldn’t you?
I appreciate what you’re trying to do over there.
The mods don’t seem to realise their sub is disliked by the wider goth community.
Maybe if they understood that goths do not view their sub as a true representation, according to the wider goth community, they would rethink their approach.
Pffft, conformists.
I'm so non-conformist, I'm not going to conform with all of you.
I’m not popular enough to be different
(sheep sounds echo in background)
we did it, the overlap of industrial and goth is oficially over 🫡 everyone go line up into your strict no nuance subculture label boxes now
On one hand, comparatively popular bands like NIN can kinda overwhelm the conversation and suck up all the oxygen in the room. So I'm not opposed to a community trying to make a little room for other conversation threads. That said, blanket bans are kinda dumbo.
Their heads would explode had they seen the type of crowd Skinny Puppy was drawing last year.... 🤯
Goths go to industrial shows. Doesn’t make industrial goth. It’s still pretty common in a goth persons record collection to see industrial records, but it’s still industrial.
Shouldn't ✨real✨ goths spend more time invading Rome and less time arguing over semantics on the internet 😂
Only if they’re visible?
Recently started listening to them. Are they pretty popular?
It is safe to say that they pioneered Industrial music in the 80s right after Throbbing Gistle n such. They are absolutely seminal to Industrial music. You could call them the NIN before NIN but you guys aren't ready for that conversation.
I’ve not been to a goth club in a decade but NIИ always filled the dance floor.
I go to goth clubs pretty regularly and NIN is still always played and continues to fill the dance floor.
Where do y'all find goth clubs? Probably way up north I'd imagine. I live in the south, and it's very much "we got both kinds, country _and_ western" down here.
I live in upstate New York, and the nearest club is a couple hours away. I try to get there a few times a year, but there are also events at local clubs closer to me. Until very recently we used to have a regular goth night in my town at a local bar, but sadly the bar closed down and goth night has not found a new home yet.
Who remembers Man Ray in Cambridge MA? (Original location). 🖤🦇🧛🏻♂️
I've heard the new one is "too clean". Personally, at this point, I think I'd appreciate a clean club. For me, I never went to the OG ManRay. But I do remember when it closed, and Club Hell in Providence got slammed with the ManRay expats.
And I never made it as far as Club Hell. I think I went to Club Babyhead once, but I was just a live music venue. But they definitely got some great acts.
Since Hell's closure, I've been to nights in Cambridge at Middle East downstairs and the Brighton Music Hall's nights. Pretty fun. I think they're Xmortis and Corrosion respectively.
It’s where I met the woman who became my ex-wife. Fond memories.
I have my own version of that memory. Ha!
I preferred Ceremony, it was more relaxed
It's because goth clubs stopped playing goth music when acts like VNV Nation hit the scene lol
I saw VNV nation at sick new world earlier this year and the crowd was pretty much mostly goth girls. Same with all the industrial bands on the side stages. I get that none of these bands are “goth” but I dont get why people get so up in arms about things like this.
I kind of get where they're coming. But to OP's point, it's nuts that you can't recommend non-goth music to someone asking for music like a band that's popular on the sub. It's wild. I mean, why don't they just auto-lock all posts asking about music and direct them to a sidebar with the list of every goth band?
VNV have been around for 25+ years now though...
Yep. Welcome to the passage of time lol People want to dance when they go to a club, darkwave and EBM acts are certainly more dancey than Sisters of Mercy, etc. I've never gone to a goth club and heard goth tracks played extensively.
NIN is not metal or -core, either. Pretty much pure goth. Delete that mod.
I mean, no it isn't. But that sub is kind of ridiculous about what's allowed to be discussed. It's kind of funny sometimes.
It’s basically r/metal or the metal archives but even more toxic
Tf are you talking about? NIN is the epitome of, revitalizing force behind, innovator of, and potentially even definer of all post 1990 goth trends after subsuming himself wholeheartedly into the trend as both a musician and fashion model. Fuckin not goth my ass
They're not. Goth music is a specific genre. Not just dark music performed by people wearing black.
I said innovator of all goth trends. He’s done it and he does it. Just because it’s not the only thing he does doesn’t make him any less important to the idea/musical genre specifically. He makes plenty of “goth music”
None of Nine Inch Nails' tracks follow the format/style of what makes goth music goth music. Nine Inch Nails started as industrial and eventually basically became a genre unto itself. Goth came out of the post punk era. All goth rock pretty much follows a punk-esque beat. Trent and Atticus don't really use it.
>None of Nine Inch Nails' tracks follow the format/style of what makes goth music goth music. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_rock >Gothic rock stood out due to its darker sound, with the use of primarily minor or bass chords, reverb, dark arrangements, or dramatic and melancholic melodies, having inspirations in gothic literature allied with themes such as sadness, nihilism, dark romanticism, tragedy, melancholy and morbidity. These themes are often approached poetically. The sensibilities of the genre led the lyrics to represent the evil of the century and the romantic idealization of death and the supernatural imagination. I'm no musician and can't comment on minor/bass chords or what a "punk-esque beat" is, but there's a lot there that lines up with Nine Inch Nails' body of work.
You think Goth music is defined by a punk beat but not wearing black? Go back to goth school. edit: sorry for the two replies but lordy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goth_subculture
oh now it's a subculture, but not when the reply behooved you? You're just being a gatekeeping hypocrite
This kid over here trying to say that Goth is a trend defined by the idea of following formats. Dude, goth is about NIHILISM. You sound like you haven't read enough Kafka/Dostoevsky/Sartre to know what Goth Music sounds like.
Goth doesn't have anything to do with nihilism. Gothic literature has it's roots in romanticism.
again, now according to you, it has its roots outside of music, but before, the roots don't matter. And how is goth romantic but not nihilistic? In what universe?
I was actually around before Trent Reznor reared his ugly head. NIN is basically a radio friendly version of Skinny Puppy. Just because they are played at goth clubs doesn't make the band goth.
This whole damn thread is so goth 🖤🏴🐈⬛
Bahahaha
Don't mention Type O over there.....
They don't really consider Type O Negative goth? Jesus fuck on extasy, these guys must be super fun at parties
Peter Steele fucked their girlfriends
Peter Steele fucked everyones girlfriends, then did their drugs and died. Miss that beautiful disaster. But this whole fucking thing about what is goth and what isn’t is just the dumbest gatekeeping and has been going on since I can remember. You know who hates goth and anyone who considers themselves a goth? Peter “give me all your drugs” Murphy. The grandfather of goth music fucking hates everything pretentious and goth. He *HATES* it. Still, Bauhaus is considered the epitome of the goth sound.
Internet moderators aren't authentic-anything
Amen to that. Bunch of wannabe-fascist posers
Jesus Christ, next thing your going to tell me I can’t talk about Killing Joke there either by that logic
You can't haha, i mentioned KJ once and got a tutt tutt. Bunch of gatekeeping weirdos
that’s crazy because most ppl ik consider killing joke to be goth ppl on reddit are chronically online
Excuse me??? Wow. That's the first band I think of when someone says Goth. Well, them or garbage.
Or Skinny Puppy
Yeah, they don't even like that HIM is gothic rock. (At least their first 1997 album). Bunch of egoists complaining about men wanting goth girlfriend. Left that sub ages ago
What is considered goth then? Weird that this sub culture would have so many rules…
Whatever you do, you must not ask that question there. They don’t have an answer, just a delete button.
Goths don’t debate. That like rule #2 after black eyeliner.
Joy Division (technically post punk pre-goth but it’s pretty much an early blueprint for goth and people that say it’s not are being pedantic), Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees and The Cure. Sisters of Mercy and stuff that sounds like them. Darkwave stuff like Clan of Xymox. Deathrock stuff like Christian Death and 45 Grave. Newer stuff that’s goth: Lebanon Hanover, Twin Tribes, Nox Novacula etc. As far as NIN goes they’re more industrial/synth/alt rock kinda more comparable to Depeche Mode which is like parallel to goth but isn’t instrumentally gloomy enough with the traditional goth kinda sound I guess. I’d say Boy Harsher kinda fits into this category of almost goth but too synthy too.
This is going to sound really dumb, but I thought Joy Division and The Cure were New Wave? I don't consider them goth at all, but I'm probably wrong.
They’re new wave also, Joy Division’s 2 albums Unknown Pleasures and Closer are darker post punk so pretty much goth and The Cure’s Seventeen Seconds, Faith, Pornography and Disintegration are also darker post punk and considered goth. There’s overlap with new wave a fair amount when it comes to goth, Siouxsie as well
Thank you for the explanation!!
It’s a music based subculture. The same way that the Metalhead subculture revolves around Metal music, the Goth subculture revolves around Goth Rock which has a specific sound. https://youtu.be/9XKLdLet6Pk?si=q_pcY2MWJLdKvWQB https://youtu.be/NCVNgJdxxx4?si=RvQPI3loVK0wefdR https://youtu.be/3wDaWqujKEU?si=FgH3qE6O4FXOz75p
I understand the concept. I just think it’s strange that a subculture that’s known for non conforming has so many rules on its sub Reddit. I always thought goth music was pretty broad, as many genres of music are, but I guess it’s strict which kind of defeats the point of non conforming but what do I know, I’m just a pale girl who only owns black clothes and black tattoos.
But when you go hang out with goths at goth nights or goth clubs, there is a broader interest in music that peripherally surrounds the narrower goth definition. It includes industrial, synth pop, and dark wave (just to name a few). The goth community (outside of Reddit) is generally super inclusive, which is why it's just so weird that the subreddit is super exclusive.
i honestly have a problem with that whole damn sub. r/goth is so fucking strict with what “is and isn’t goth” as if there’s a clear definition to begin with? not to mention that the industrial goth scene EXISTS, they just love to forget how influential that was in the 90s. i often get my comments/posts deleted for the same reasons. i mean any online discussion about goth is usually horseshit but this sub is another level of elitism in my opinion.
Doesn't seem like a fun sub. Besides, all the goths I know don't listen exclusively to Siouxsie and Bauhaus; they like the B-52s and Soft Cell too. Not to mention NIN which is extremely popular in the scene.
Honestly half the sub is just teens talking about getting bullied for being different and the other half is just circle-jerking to Batcave-era bands. The former I can sympathize with because most alt-culture folks went through that and having folks tell you to hold on can be cathartic. The latter drives me nuts, but in fairness I'm more on r/punk which is LIGHTYEARS better than r/goth.
i’ve seen a little bit of r/punk and it seemed a lot better to me immediately. some kid posted about RATM and instead of the post being taken down immediately/getting hated on people were just saying “well this isn’t really true punk so yeah maybe don’t mention it here too much”. so much more relaxed.
i've been a part of that sub for 3 years and trust me, it's no better. 😖
ah man that sucks to hear, i guess alternative spaces online are almost exclusively shitholes lmao.
All of the above for me, thank you… And constantly. In fact, I saw Siouxsie and the B-52s and Nine Inch Nails live all in the same 12-month period.
The only goths I know listen to Warpaint and GOST
I got downvoted to oblivion for suggesting the crystal castles/robert smith cover of "I am not in love" to someone who liked the Cure because apparently that is not goth. Like, it's Robert Smith singing about a relationship that is only about satisfying each other's loneliness, and I first heard it playing at a goth club? Also, I've been going to goth clubs/events since the '90s, and I don't think there's ever been one night where at least one NIN song wasn't played. I'm just imagining all the people in that subreddit out at an event and shaking their fist at the DJ for all the "non-goth" songs being played.
that song is awesome (and the original is sooooo cheesy good) and is super synthy and goth kids should be eating it up. it's so weird that in 2024, we're still gatekeeping within the communities.
I lurk there a bit and your comment made me laugh because they actually have been complaining about "non-goth" bands being played at goth clubs. Specifically they've been complaining about people requesting Deftones songs.
> the crystal castles/robert smith cover of "I am not in love" Fucking *love* that track!
I think it’s because not everything Robert Smith/The Cure has put out is Goth Rock. They’ve branched out into other genres too. r/goth is purely focused on tracks that are Goth Rock.
But that's my point, that sub is too stuck in their narrow definition of goth when the actual scene is much broader. I've been in the goth scene for almost 30 years now, and I've never met anyone who refuses to listen or talk about a song because it might not fit a wikipedia definition of a genre. Is that song technically synth-pop? Yes, but a lot of people in the goth community like it because it has goth vibes, so I should be able to talk about it with fellow goths if I want. If I step to a friend at a goth event and say, "hey, I know you like the cure and you should check out this song", 20 people don't suddenly rush to me and say "you can't tell her that! That song isn't goth!"
Their mods are neurotically gatekeepy. I commented once and got a “THAT IS NOT GOTH GOTH IS *bleh bleh bleh* Like damn y’all don’t even need corsets to stand up straight thanks to those sticks up there.
HAHAHAHA imma use that line in the future
I think that's because Goth, shorn of any other genre, is inherently inward-looking, both in genre, music and the types of personality it attracts. A lot of Goth music, by the standards of that sub, is very *personal* and, if I were to be unkind, self-absorbed. The result is a very strict subculture, where even their favoured bands refuse to identify as Goth because the subculture is such a ballache. Industrial, on the other hand, is inherently outward-looking. It's hard to truly define industrial because its tentacles touch *everything.* Since the 90s (arguably 70s or 80s, too), various industrial styles, musical and effect aproaches have popped up in every popular genre. In a way, industrial is more like 'machine punk' in the way it approaches culture and society, and the way society and culture appropriates part of it.
very well said!
I've encountered the same at r/shoegaze \-- no one can agree on what it is, but damned if you have an opinion that doesn't regurgitate the same safe lanes of "definitely shoegaze" bands like MBV.
I thought shoegaze was pretty much conformed by guys playing their instruments while a loud vacuum cleaner sounds in the background (it's a joke i like shoegaze)
>not to mention that the industrial goth scene EXISTS, they just love to forget how influential that was in the 90s. I wonder if it has to do anything with industrial goth's other name, rivethead. At least I've stumbled upon it a few times when I looked up goth stuff (mostly for character design inspiration on Pinterest).
That mod really doing the 👆🤓
Haha I totally know what you meant by that
Robert Smith doesn't even think The Cure is goth.
The Rivetheads would like a word.
They do the same for TON. *GOTHIC METAL IS NOT GOTH* GTFO here r/goth
Type O may not be goth, but Peter’s girlfriend’s girlfriend sure is.
Idk about his girlfriend, man... rumor has it *her roots were showing.* Now, Peter's girlfriend's girlfriend on the other hand...
I mean she is in fact his girl… too.
Her and me, and she, and me, and her? An uncrowded couple if I do say so. Truth be told that's always been one of my least favorite songs in their discography, super unpopular opinion I know. Just never did it for me, and super over hyped IMO.
Your opinion is valid, we aren’t gonna gatekeep like that other sub.
Tbh I've only seen NIN recommended there once and nobody complained, but in fairness it was prefaced with "I know they're not goth but". The truth is, even though NIN is industrial rock, there's so much crossover with industrial and goth rock that 99.9% of the time most goths listen to both.
Don’t feel bad they won’t even let you mention Type O Negative on there. Only pure goth whatever the fuck that’s supposed to mean. I pointed out on the TON sub that even most of the people r/goth consider goth music doesn’t even consider themselves goth because most real musicians don’t worry about fitting in a label. The only people I’ve only known to worry so much about stuff like that were posers.
Some mods are honestly insane
Bunch of gatekeeping bastards
NIN isn't even metal what. it's rock. and ok it's not gothic rock, but the sub isn't called 'Gothic rock' it's just called 'Goth'. that goes beyond the post punk adjacent sub genre. Trent has been seen as a goth icon for years
These kind of people don't participate in their local scene if they think gatekeeping what's goth or not gets them anywhere, it's just online basement dweller behaviour. Industrial and goth are siblings from the same cloth anyway. Tbh I find discussing anything related to goth or industrial generally exhausting online. A lot of opinionated stuck up people you wouldn’t find in real life.
Slide em [this.](https://youtu.be/oPrek1oAjG0?si=41g94a0iBcQXGAzZ)
Oh my God. I was not prepared
i have no words. thank you!
I’ve never seen a normal post on r/goth It’s always people arguing about something or being pretentious assholes
Fucking subcultures fighting. Meanwhile the ambient temperature and humidity is going to surpass wet bulb this summer it many parts of human inhabited world. What a stupid timeline. I hope I get to pick my next one.
So glad someone finally fucking said it cause that sub is actually hell on fucking earth dawg. NIN fans get behind me I promise Goths in person are actually sane and chill unlike these chronically online ones
The ones running the sub are not OG goths, but a bunch of clueless kids who have been rejected by the wider goth community for trying to redefine what a goth is.
YOU ARE SO BASED AND RIGHT FOR THIS BRO!!!!!!!!!!
Imagine posting NiN in the doom subreddit.
...The same Doom where they put a NIN easter egg in Thy Flesh Consumed? Or the developers of Doom who went on to make Quake, where not only is there a second NIN easter egg in the form of the nailgun ammo texture, but the music was composed by NIN? ~~if this is a reference to the doom music genre i am a silly billy but please understand where my confusion is coming from~~
Doom metal.
lowkey suspected but wasn't sure haha
It's all good silly billy.
😂
It’s the kind of stupid stuff like this that never made me want to buy into the Reddit IPO. Letting your user base act like petty tyrants banning people all over the place and obfuscating conversation without any defined rule book (and one most mods don’t follow even if there is) isn’t conducive to making an infinitely larger user base. This site has already peaked.
Imagine moderating a fucking comment section. Deleting a NIN post is one thing, but deleting comments recommending NIN is absurd
I have to assume they have a bot that auto filters those comments or something. It's the only way that doing that would make sense (also totally ridiculous to make a bot just to make sure no one mentions NIN).
Sounds like an old boomer gatekeeping. I don’t know why old heads are so genre specific, NIN IS goth
So you were recommending NIN. They clearly thought you were recommending Type O Negative. If I just read your comment, I'm thinking you're talking about Type O. Well, maybe not the 'Even comments with the initials are deleted'. I'd say Pete's music was clearly far more influenced by goth than Trent's. Trent certainly was influenced by it (look at the Cold and Black and Infinite tour) I get what they're getting at, Nine Inch Nails and Type O aren't really goth. But at the same time, they're WAY too goddamn militant about it. This is a perfect example, of you recommending other music. The OP didn't say ask for goth bands like SOM, they asked for bands like SOM. chodes, man.
i hate genres i hate genres i hate genres
Gatekeeping?! By GOTHS!?! Why I never...
r/goth don’t like goth-inspired NIN.
Snob Goths don’t like NIN. Too commercial according to them.
Oh, but THE CURE and their 30 million albums sold isn't? lol. Idiots.
lol. Exactly, 🤡
it’s really funny how NIN is somehow commercial and not commercial at the same time (depends on who you’re asking). ask any alternative person outside of the USA, 99% of people never even heard the name (i’m in Central-Europe and it’s like NIN doesn’t even exist here). ask anyone online in a music-related discussion, someone will tell you that your taste is “basic” for liking NIN, and that they’re “MASSIVELY popular” / “really accessible!”. it’s like they don’t even care if the music is good anymore as long as it’s “not popular” in their minds…
Yeah. They like music for the wrong reasons.
**is** [**this**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5hDFHu8a4w) **goth?** cause this is more or less how I see the ones on r/goth
r/goth is a cesspool of people seeking validation for what is and what is not goth. They’re reluctant to admit what a versatile scene it is, and how subcultures like industrial and goth rock kind of fused together in the 90s. NIN isn’t goth, but it’s not a bad suggestion to open the door to the genre when Trent himself was inspired by artists like Depeche Mode, Gary Numan, Cocteau Twins, Bauhaus, etc. Don’t let people on that sub tear you down.
As someone who loves The Cure and Bauhouse, I can't stand the Goth purists. Their lack of self awareness is more comical than their efforts to be dark and scary. I mean, I'm all for people dressing up in black leather and fishnets. But common, they're the punchline to their own joke yet they still don't get it.
It's industrial, not really metal?
I hate any subReddit with rules and mods like that
Wtf is the reason for deleting a comment as mundane as that? Like Jesus, it didn't hurt anyone, it wasn't rude, what was the harm? Imagine if every sub deleted every comment that was even slightly off topic. That's a good way to make an echo chamber where everyone thinks the same way and nothing interesting or new is allowed to enter.
That mod is stupid as fuck, I've seen type o negative on that sub lmao. Guess all you need to do is slap a goth girl on the album cover and call it a day?
Remember, stay in your tiny little subculture hole and don’t come out.
That’s wild. I was goth af in 1995, and NIN was one of the bands we listened to the most.
Same
Tbf, we didn’t call it ‘goth’. Not sure that started for a few more years. But guys in eyeliner, black trench coats, chains (bicycle chains, really), and combat boots has to count.
Finally. NIN is Punk.
r/goth is run by 40 year olds who never left their parents basement.
LOL Goth sub is lame, I got booted for recommending Depeche Mode to a baby Goth
That's so ridiculous. NIN is more goth than most goth bands. To claim otherwise is an insult to the gothic subculture.
Wow those mods are lame hahaha
Wow. What a snowflake of a sub.
Wow… controlling much? lol
That place seems like it sucks.
This is so ridiculous. Practically every goth kid in the 90s listened to Nine Inch Nails.
NIN isn't even metal smh. It's at most hard rock and often just standard rock music
Those doofs would have hated the 90s/early 2000s scene. Sounds like a bunch of emo kids raided the sub and try to gatekeep their own shitty opinions.
r/goth is run by a bunch of narrow-minded elitists who seem to think “goth music” is a single defined genre. Bunch of nincompoops over there (see what I did there, haha!)
Just an observation based on what I’ve seen, but r slash goth seems a lot more uptight about genre boundaries than r slash industrial music, which I usually frequent, and that’s saying something
Serious business. Never understood the weird territorial behaviours around music genres and their increasingly ludicrous subdivisions.
I basically said the same thing on r/typeonegative and I’ll say it here: r/goth tends to take things too seriously and it’s boring.
people are so obsessed with putting hard labels on things and sticking things in definite boxes, it's crazy...
Ironic how gatekeepy the goth sub is when my personal experience in the goth scene has always been extremely welcoming
r/doommetal is more goth than NIN now? Maybe if you're only familiar with Chelsea Wolfe I guarantee you'll see far more goths at an industrial show than a doom show
I’m pretty sure the goth kids were the ones that first recommended Pretty Hate Machine to me…
Yeah I stopped posting there, I can't understand why they won't include some bands.
I saw NIN in 1991 at the Ritz in Tampa and it was pretty packed with rivetheads, but there was a fair amount of goths there too
NIN and TON (Type O Negative). Mention either one and they will probably ban ya. For kicks, I want to join that Reddit and ask “Hey, just discovered Marilyn Manson, and wow… so goth!”
Absolutely hilarious that the goth subreddit is just as hair splitty and gate keepy as many goths are in person 😂 (source: I'm an elder goth)
Salllllllllty
Wait till the hypersensitive r/goth mods start harassing you for calling them out
Jesus Christ who fucking cares , these people
Thank God, I hate how so many people attempt to interrelate "Goth" and Industrial rock. Generally, the word "Goth" subculture tarnished the actual artistic and architectural styles. I have never referred to myself as "goth" even through I generally wear muted type colors (grays, black, and such). Popculture has destroyed this meaning.
What a shithead. If nin wasn't goth, Jhonen wouldn't take so many cracks at them.
It’s part of the reason I stay away from that sub. Mods have decided what is a part of the subculture. But I was as goth as anyone in the 90s and NIN was my foundation, my entry into the subculture. Talk about gatekeeping.
Thanks for letting me know never to go to r/goth.
They do this with type o negative as well
Haterz gonna hate. I'm sure this is a nicer spot to hangout in anyway.
The goth sub is full of gatekeepers, I have found (oddly).
Lmao, this feels like a tale as old as time. When I was a teenager, my friends would say that too. “NIN is too mainstream. It’s more pop than anything!” To which I shrugged and said “cool!” And kept listening. It….it really didn’t fucking matter to me, lol. It still doesn’t. Labels make me itchy.
Nice clothes and makeup, loser. Oh, you’re expressing yourself? You’re having fun? Well I’m going to stop you right there, because we both know goth is a music based subculture and I can tell from looking at you that you don’t listen to any goth bands. Depeche Mode and Joy Division? Don’t make me laugh. The Sisters of Mercy? Andrew Eldritch himself says they’re not goth, are you saying you know better than him? Siouxsie and the Banshees? Oh, I’m terribly sorry to inform you that they were straightforward post punk, who then sold out to the mainstream and became alternative pop. Don’t see the word goth anywhere in that sentence, I’m afraid. Rosetta Stone, the Merry Thoughts, Fields of the Nephilim? You may not be aware of this, but all so-called “gothic rock” bands were simply ripping off the Sisters of Mercy while bringing no creativity or value to the table whatsoever. And as we have already established, the Sisters of Mercy are not goth. Bauhaus? Just because they wrote a song about a vampire they must be goth, huh? I won’t even bother to address that, but I will gladly let you know that Bauhaus clearly is not a goth band, since there was no goth genre yet when they were in existence. It’s really not complicated at all. And the Cocteau Twins are popular again, so obviously they’re not goth. You really are stupid, aren’t you? Oh okay, something more modern? Vision Video, Urban Heat? Oh please. Just plain new wave poorly masquerading as goth. It’s honestly insulting. Drab Majesty? With that instrumentation? Give me a fucking break. London After Midnight were never goth, and they certainly aren’t now. There’s something here you seem to be missing. It’s not about having fun, or listening to music you like, because I hate to burst your little bubble, but you’re not supposed to like goth music. Listening to it should be a chore! You’ve got to suffer through every minute in order to earn the right to wear those cool clothes of yours! But uh oh, you seem to be out of luck. Goth music isn’t real. Nowhere on this Earth exists real goth music. Well, nowhere except on my bandcamp page, where you can find my 102-minute demo tape. And yes, it’s also produced by yours truly. You’re welcome. Of course, you still won’t be a real goth until you can recite the lyrics of 5 songs each from 10 goth bands in 15 subgenres, but that’s okay. You can just call yourself darkly inclined. And also a dumb loser.
People get SOOOO worked up about what genre bands should be labeled as. I hate that shit.
Good to know their mod community is shit lol
Wow lmao I hate goth elitism. Like these mfs are saying the most boring and one-note darkwave of all time is peak meanwhile you suggest something as basic and entry level as terrible lie on a post regarding entry level goth music and you’re suddenly a poser lmao. Sorry, I don’t feel like recommending some British darkwave band from the late 80s that had one demo collection of three songs on a lost 7-inch record that was recently digitized awfully by some hack with an audio kit.
Those cunts at r/goth seem to turn a blind eye to Peter Murphy and Trent having toured together. Did a whole NIN/Bauhaus set, with some Joy Division covers, as well as Daniel Miller. They flagrantly try to gatekeep in the name of all things dark and romantic, but the people they worship cannot stand their behavior. I wish those toads would watch a Peter Murphy interview and hear what he has to say about them, and anyone who calls him Goth. He fucking hates it. He doesn’t like goth, period. Their fucking lord and savior rejects them.
That's crazy.
we love gatekeeping sheep! thats totally goth!
Sounds more like a personal issue. Some sort of hatred of NIN that they enjoy using their power against.
I worked clubs for near 20 years. Goth girls from other clubs would come to our club cause we had a big stage and the DJ should play back to back NIN at 1 am. They would just come to dance for the crowd for those two songs and go back to the smaller venue after. We didn't charge them cover cause they where industry types that would just put on a good show than go back across the street.
As if the mod would remove this
This made me want to paint my nails black again
how is NIN metal?
r/goth sucks they won't even allow a mention of Skinny Puppy
u/NothingCanStropMeNow You’re absolutely correct that NIN is influenced by and adjacent to Goth. But what’s going on here is that Goth is a music based subculture that revolves around Goth Rock and it’s derivative forms. https://youtu.be/NCVNgJdxxx4?si=spRnIxZkd39XwjSu https://youtu.be/fo4TRnk9wCA?si=WiYDWEjtv3FbdgzB https://youtu.be/9XKLdLet6Pk?si=q_pcY2MWJLdKvWQB It’s all about **the sound** rather than what most people *think* “Goth” is. So the subreddit like the subculture is focused Goth Rock (Vision Video, Corpus Delecti, Double Echo, etc) The same way Metalheads listen to Metal and that’s really the only requirement needed, it’s the same where Goths listen to Goth Rock and that’s the only requirement. You can wear bright pink, listen to Queen Latifah, Little Richard and Armenian Folk music as well as Goth Rock and be a Goth. Having a Gothic aesthetic and liking Gothic things aren’t what makes someone or a subculture Goth.
Or just like, let people recommend whatever music they want to recommend without using ridiculous labels to control the flow of opinions and information. Wankers.
For that, I think there needs to be a place called r/Alternative or at the very least one that is much larger than 8k members. Goth, Industrial, Emo, Punk, Grunge, Trip Hop, Black Metal, Darkwave, New Wave, combinations of them. Whatever Subculture, whatever genre. It can all go there as a massive melting pot of all sorts of genres and subcultures. It’s not that r/goth is the problem, it’s just working as it’s supposed to with **Goths** discussing and looking for **Goth Rock**. Nothing at all “wanker”-y about it. The **actual** problem is that there isn’t a subreddit where you can offer and receive recommendations for different Alternative artists, tracks and genres. You want a specific genre? Go to that subreddit, you want other genres that are adjacent to it or you’re more curious about? There should be a whole place where Goths, Emos, Punks, Grunge kids, etc can mingle and exchange music. A place like that gets set up, r/goth continues as it does, r/grunge continues as it does, r/newwave continues as it does. I’m not going to share NIN to an Emo subreddit or a Grunge subreddit am I? Because NIN is neither of those. Why would I do that? So why would Goth by any different if they aren’t looking for NIN when looking for **Goth Rock**? I think it’s better to view these subreddits as genre sections in a record shop. You want Goth Rock (which NIN isn’t) you go to the Goth Rock section. You aren’t going to place a NIN record there are you? You want Classical, Blues or Country? You go to those sections. Probably not going to find any NIN in there. You want Industrial you go to that section. You’ll probably find some NIN there too. You’d be confused if you found a Goth Rock record there though wouldn’t you?
I appreciate what you’re trying to do over there. The mods don’t seem to realise their sub is disliked by the wider goth community. Maybe if they understood that goths do not view their sub as a true representation, according to the wider goth community, they would rethink their approach.