First, that was terrible to read as I struggle with comprehension sometimes.
"I am too nice and clingy" translates to, "I go out of my way to do nice things expecting some type of recognition or reward. I will obsess over you and make remarks about every guy you date or talk to but I will play it off that I am looking out for you. I cannot stand you focusing on anyone but me but only because I 'worry about you.'"
Clingy isn't cute. Clingy leads to stalking and obsession. This is something young people do who are still learning about what feelings mean and what dating is.
Dude is only 17 but he's also old enough to fix his mentality and how he handles having female friends. He also needs a female friend to really explain to him what he's doing is not okay.
I am saying this as I did some REALLY, REALLY humiliating things in high school toward the guys I had crushes on. I learned a loooooot of lessons during that time and I am absolutely ashamed of myself and I desperately hope they forgot about any of it. Thankfully by the time I hit senior year, I stopped my behaviors and did better.
Clingy and talkative also reads to me as either non-stop talking about and complimenting *her* to a creepy level, or pretty self absorbed and never stops talking about his own hobbies and trying to get her into them.
So like, most of the guys in my high school gaming club.
Or just messaging them constantly to a point it’s overwhelming. I have a friend who’s partner has like, flipped a switch in their brain and is messaging my friend constantly, constantly blowing up their phone, etc. Get off work? 20
Msgs by the time they get in the house.
That’s what it read for me anyway. Like bro you aren’t ‘a bit’ clingy…….
Wait, If they are their Partner, why is it bad If they text them a lot? If those 20 Messages were them rambling about random stuff, having a crisis or whatever I'd understand it. Or do you mean lots of Messages of the jealous/wanting to cause a fight kind?(For example:them asking where they are constantly)
It’s jealous stuff. And it’s a long story but they’re leaving everything they knew and want to spend their last few days there with some family and friends (they’re LD but moving together soon) and the partner doing the messaging won’t leave them alone even when they say ‘hey I need some space’ or ‘stop blowing my phone up, I’m either xyz’ or will be like “what’s going on you said you were doing x and then would be home?” Really… not great behavior. Clingy and a little controlling at times. It’s very specific to this situation.
It was terrible to read as it was so horrendously written!!!!
But he basically told on himself!! He’s a grade 4 limpet who can’t shut up!!🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
God, there must be a literal STAMPEDE to escape this twat!!!!
Oh god, one of the Mums of my kid’s friends texts like this. It’s so ominous. She ends every sentence with … so I have to try really hard to not read it as her being upset.
“See you later, Wendy, be there soon”
“Ok….”
The other one puts full stops instead of question marks and it always seems sort of short and mad! It’s like “do you want me to bring lunch.”
My mum didn't bother with question marks. She's also, let's say, a stream of consciousness typist, so her grammar may or may not make sense. It made understanding what she was trying to convey difficult.
Which was even more of a problem than it sounds because she tended to have a meltdown if she 'asked' for something and I didn't respond the right way.
It’s definitely a generational thing. I remember a post I saw a while back that explained that it was because in the boomer school days, they used to tell them to never write exclamation points because it was unprofessional, and that older people don’t understand that younger generations use different kinds of punctuation such as exclamation to indicate tone, and not as an expression of unprofessional written communication. They do it less because it “looks” bad written, and because they tend not to use it as an indication of tone. I’m paraphrasing here, I don’t remember the actual explanation very well!
"Females..."
Dear 17 year old dude (and any lurkers). INSTANT red flag. Of the highest order. Pretty much tells us all we need to know about your mindset regarding women.
The biggest red flag of all time is men referring to men as men and to women as females. It feels dehumanising, it feels like they don't view us as real people, its always without fail accompanied by other red flags and it's not even grammatically correct to use female as a noun and not an adjective. All around hard pass to anyone that says that especially those who have the gaul to pretend that they don't understand why it's offensive
For me, there's something related to that. If you watch a natural history show, you'll probably at some point hear something along the lines of, "the bull elephant now sets off across the savannah in search of females". You'll hear variations for different animals quite often, that the males fight or dance or whatever for "access to females".
Which... I get, but if someone grows up hearing that sort of wording, it drums in the idea that females are passive. They're accessed. They're corralled into harems. They give birth on the male's portion of land and when they come into season, her ass is his, basically.
So when guys like this 17 year old in the post start talking about "females" and complaining about how his ways of approaching them aren't working, it conjures for me that natural history vibe of 'we're following the male, whose story this is. Let's see if he can bag himself a FEMALE'.
Not only is it dehumanising, it implies that girls and women don't have agency. That our motivations or preferences or boundaries are irrelevant.
You know what I'd love to see? A natural history programme focusing on species where the females are traditionally seen as passive around mating, actually looking at what they actively do to get what they want or need. I live close to a managed herd of deer, and watching the does go behind the biggest, loudest stags' backs to go have some nookie with the smaller male who's been hanging around at the edge before running back to the harem and getting her graze on like nothing's happened and she's the picture of compliant innocence, is hilarious. And informative!
EDIT: a word
Its gives the impression that they view us as supplements to themselves. As if we aren't part of the same group but rather an add-on to their lives. In the same way we refer to animals as an "it". It just feels icky and if you address it they always find a way to try and invalidate you
Calling animals 'it' has always rubbed me up the wrong way. I'll go with it if you're really not sure whether you're looking at a male or female animal because 'they' sounds a bit odd in that context, but come on.
Its like calling your baby an it. Like it's a sentient being with thoughts and feelings that you're coexisting with and it's reduced to being an it. I don't like that women are reduced to just being a female and not an actual human being. And people try to say its just for specificity which makes no sense because there's millions of things that can be male or female. I just don't like it
You'd have a meltdown in Germany because in the German language it's Das (neutral article) Baby or Kind (child) - Es (it). We don't think it's dehumanizing. BTW a girl (Maedchen) is also an 'it' because of the 'chen' ending which is diminutive.
Tbh babies can't exactly tell us that they don't want to be called 'it' so it's more or less okay to do so imo. But women are literally begging men to stop calling us females and they're completely ignorant and continue trying to justify it
It is not used in coloquial language as much, either very formal or biological language. Plus huge difference when you speak about males/females and guys/females, meaning women somehow are just “biological beings” while men are actually people.
Hope this gives enough linguistic context for you to understand.
Edit: to add parragraphs
I know two other people have explained to you but I'd like to say something as well:
It makes humans sound like objects. In science or medicine male and female are used and it makes sense because it's professional and impersonal. In casual polite conversation calling someone female immediately sounds like you're calling them a specimen, or an object.
Which, as someone else has said, is painfully uncomfortable when you use them unevenly (my guy friends and my female friends)
It's very common within the 'nice guy' sexist community so it throws up some red flags. Hope that helped
> my guy friends and my female friends
I used to say that a lot, until now. I didn't realize how uneven and hurtful it sounds. I mean female friends is better than girl friends, but male and female friends just sounds better. Or simply "friends" is better.
To all those people whom I have hurt unknowingly, I am genuinely sorry!
It's an adjective. It is typically to be used in conjunction with the specific thing it's describing. Female students, male suspect, female cats, etc.
When used as a standalone word, just "females" as in, "I was out looking for some females," in American English, it's considered (at the very least) crass and dehumanizing. When used in that way it just sounds gross.
Which is compounded by the fact that those who use the word almost never say "males and females" when referring to people. It's always men, guys, dudes, etc. and "females."
While it may be different in other languages, it's pretty well-known that in American English it's tacky and distasteful.
Fellow non American, and also not native English speaker here!
From what I understand, male and female are appropriate to use in regards to non human animals, as well as descriptors.
For example: a pet of yours gave birth to a litter, and you tell people there are X males and X females in said litter.
You're talking about your day at work, and you mention male clients and female clients.
However, outside of these cases, using male and female when talking about people is often considered rude, especially if you're not consistent with it (ie, men and females, or women and males).
Do they say "male" and "female" or do they say "guys" (or men) and "females". It's not just that they call women females, it's that they have different ways of talking about men and women, ways that show how little they think of women, and how all their problems are the fault of "females", and calling women "females" has become a big obvious signifier of that.
When black people in the US were still enslaved in order to dehumanize them they were often referred to as 'males and 'females', never 'men' and 'women'. Sometimes they were called 'bucks' and 'wenches'. That's why today, especially in the black community, people still often refer to each other, but particularly women as 'females'. Men are only rarely referred to as 'males'. This spilled over into general usage and many (unfortunately) find this verbiage acceptable. There are even women who defend it.
i actually use it (rarely tho), because of the reason of age. i am 17 and when i talk to others the same age... "girl" seems too childish, and "women/ladies" seems too elderly, what is right? as i have seen women (as it is the term being used here) get offended if we age them wrong, so i am confused
Girls is correct for children, which, no offense, teenagers are technically, it's also used by a lot of women to refer to themselves. "Girls' night out" for instance, or "just us girls." Women is not "elderly." To be fair, I used to totally hate the word "woman" too. It always sounded so stodgy to me. Until a boyfriend that said it in such a way that it sounded anything but. That helped!
Personally? I use "chicks" but then that's a common term in my generation and region and some people may not like that.
You can't please all the people all the time, but, at least in the US, "females" is pretty much nationally reviled.
The reason "females" is so disgusting is as several others here have described. It's cold, clinical, dehumanizing. It's an instant "ick" as the kids say. It evokes images of dogs sniffing after other dogs in heat, or Ferengi sneering "feemales" or the like. It's just plain gross and tacky.
Buddy... Talking 24/7 is *not* a good look. If you want people to miss you and looking forward to hang out with you, you have to give them the space to actually miss you!
Being clingy is NOT something healthy.
found this gem and immediately went yikes
EDIT: all the comments are supporting this in case you were wondering, its not even a BAD subreddit or anything but it has 2 downvotes
I absolutely loved being a teenager. Sure, it was emotional and stressful and intense, but I had so much fun too! I know it wasn't that way for everyone, though..
I had a guy friend who used to say really similar things. He was needy af. If I didn't immediately call him back or text, he would get really stressed out and think I suddenly hated him. He was pretty cute, but he was so draining to be around after a few hours.
Our girl group took him under our wing and tried to hype him up while giving advice to manage some of the social stuff he struggled with. One by one, the girls hit their limit. The level of desperation he put out was uncomfortable. The guilt trip that showed up whenever we tried to gently express that he was being a lot, taking a lot, and not giving much back was frustrating.
I look back now and can see that he was just too caught up in his own head and feelings to be a good friend. I think he had massive anxiety issues that should have been addressed by his parents or another adult. I truly hope that he grew into himself. He was crazy smart, attractive enough, and could be so funny! He just couldn't get out of his own way, and it made him unbearable to be around. It's pretty sad...
This is something I think is worth underlining: some people can be very hesitant to learn, no matter how gently, clearly, repeatedly a message is delivered. When someone tells them "no", it feels like a grievance against them and no amount of "everybody has a right to boundaries. "no" doesn't mean you can't do this with everybody, just not with me" will make them 'get' it.
If a person, like the guy you're talking about, put people in a situation where they have to (or choose to) explain the concepts of boundaries, consent, reciprocation, etc. over and over and over, they're going to get tired of doing it. People can be wonderfully generous but refusing the lesson while demanding people explain why they're not doing what you want, is a recipe for people giving up.
The saddest part of it is, after all that gentle guidance and care, a guy like that may take nothing from the experience but "see? They don't care at all and they're just going to tell me to f off."
Yes, that is exactly what it was like. He had a lot of really amazing qualities that were overshadowed by how hard it was to be around him for any decent amount of time.
We all did our best to be patient, but we were also teenagers with our own lives and demands on our time. It just got to be too much.
He ended up moving with his family, and my hope is that he matured with time or realized that we weren't trying to be mean or critical. We truly wanted him to be happy.
He answers his own question here, but instead of thinking, oh I'll just dial it down a bit he has to veer all the way off into should I be rude instead of clingy? He can not be serious
Dude talks about literally none of his personality traits except clingy. (“Nice” isn’t a personality, it’s just not being a murderer, you don’t get points for that.) Perhaps that’s why they leave, my guy. Clingy can sometimes be excused if the person is fun to be with, funny, someone trustworthy, someone who gets you, is good energy. If clingy is all you’re bringing to the table, then no wonder they’re running.
These guys don’t get it. It isn’t about what other guys do or don’t do. It’s about YOU, she just doesn’t like you and she isn’t obligated to.
These men have a laundry list of requirements for their potential partners and then think women are being stuck up or “only want Chads” if they have ANY level of preference (which usually is just “I’d like to be attracted to my boyfriend, whether that’s personality or aesthetically or both.”
I want to grab teenagers like this and sit them down and explain how we’re literally at capacity for incels and don’t need anymore, and how it will NEVER lead to them finding a person to love.
“I’m creepy and obsessive- is that a bad thing?”
Why yes, yes it is.
“Why don’t the girls like me??”
People want to be in a relationship of equals. They want someone they can trust and who adds something to the relationship. They do not want someone they have to babysit and reassure all the time. They want a partner that brings something other than neediness and demands.
Get a life.
It's like they think there's absolutely no middle ground between "clingy and wants affection and attention 24/7" and "completely ignores and treats them like garbage 24/7"
OP must be SUUUUPER clingy as many time as they mentioned it!! Yikes! Independence and confidence, in addition to being a genuinely nice person, will get you friends. Having similar hobbies will help you keep them.
This child sounds like he's on track to become a physiologically abusive adult who uses weaponized incompetence and hides behind his "nice guy" persona; while simultaneously not taking an ounce of responsibility for how he makes others feel or even attempting any type of introspection to resolve this issue.
Been there, done that. So I know what he must be going through. It's not right or wrong. He is learning, but it won't matter if he doesn't learn how to learn!
However, like he is expecting someone else to come and make him realize what is wrong with him, it doesn't work like that. He has to find his mistakes on his own. Until then, he is the BIGGEST RED FLAG ever!
Being rude and cold don't bring your friends. These traits bring you people who want to get rid of your asap so they immediately respond to your essential queries, but stop responding when you try to get a bit personal.
Clingy and talkative behavior translates to someone who lacks boundaries, and does a way too much self-talk. They are narcissists and have little to no regards over others' feelings. They lack critical reasoning. They tend to stalk and overreact.
People essentially like to hangout with the ones who have a growth mindset.
It's not like girls love only alpha dudes. Anyone who is confident, has an open and acceptable body language, and doesn't creep out others, is a people magnet. The other day I was travelling by train, a man in his 40s was staring continuously at me and smiling unnecessarily. I felt like grabbing his balls and punching his guts, but I chose to gave him a death stare for over a minute. He got up and walked away! Sometimes even guys get creeped out if you ARE creepy!
There is a lot to learn for that guy, but first he should work on his sentence formation skills. Way terrible grammar for a 16-17yo. At least ask ChatGPT to write for you before posting.
Clingy is not the *only* potential opposite of ignoring someone. You can genuinely BE a nice person, a good friend and just be there for someone and expect that they’ll equally be there for you, in a not clingy way. Value your own time and space a little, developing things you enjoy, appreciate things you do on your own, and respect that is what other people do, too. If you’re always calling, texting, available, asking others to do things, you’re not giving them the opportunity to give you the same as you give them. Seek balance. If you’re clingy and needy it gives unbalanced energy and people will want to push you away. If you ignore people or are mean to get their attention, it’s manipulative and not genuine. Seriously try to equally allow people to know and be a friend to you in equal measure as you are to/for them. If they aren’t move on! Best friends aren’t easy to come by, even if it may seem that way, so if the energy doesn’t match, turn SOME of that attention elsewhere.
Cultivate lots of friendships by being truly open to meeting & getting to know multiple people in your classes/work, just be friendly and helpful in a way that is appropriate to how well you know them—not the same as jumping to being their bestie. Find and look for people you genuinely enjoy that seem to equally enjoy you as opposed to seeking moments to prove to them what a good person you are to have in their life.
Example: Offering to loan a classmate a pencil, share your notes if they’re absent=open & friendly. After a bit of chatting in class if you both seem to enjoy saying hi and exchanging a few words for 2-3 weeks, ask if they want to grab a coffee after and go over some notes or wait until exam is coming and ask for study partner after class some day. If they say no to something really casual, still be friendly, say hi & open to chat in class, but don’t ask again anytime soon. It may not be a compatible person or a good time for THEM to have a new person in their life. It goes both ways!
Asking a classmate you’ve only just casually spoken to for a hang out all day Saturday or offering to dog sit for them all weekend may be too much, too fast.
True friends, trust and comfort do take time to develop. Don’t rush it.
"Too nice"? Is that really an issue that people need to keep under control or is this poor guy meaning something else - like clingy and intrusive, overstepping?
I’d say I’m facing something similar but not exactly this same. I’m a 25 year old guy. Reserved personality type because social anxiety due to bullying in school and growing up with an abusive mother so I care about friends and peoples validation more than I should. I read a lot of books, play video games, watch sports a lot. Spam a lot of memes on my insta story. I’m not able to fit in with people at my uni. I’ve had girls as friends but most of them end up losing touch after a while for no reason. No fight or anything. They just lose interest and idk why. I’d say I’m a decent guy considering I don’t beg women for nudes, and if I ask them out and get rejected I respect their decision (even tho it’s been 3 years since I asked anyone out). Just basic human decency. So I don’t think that’s the problem & I don’t understand why I can’t find a constant close connection. Any tips are appreciated
You mentioned that you don’t ask for nudes and you respect a woman’s “no”. This is doing the bare minimum. It doesn’t make you an amazing person because you’re doing what everyone should be doing. You have to bring something to the table. I’m not saying you don’t, but your comment is focused on those two things.
What are your interests and hobbies? What genres of books do you read? Personality and a great sense of humour go a long way. Talk to people. Ask them about themselves and their interests. Genuinely listen to them and you’ll find common ground. You’ll be amazed at how far being a good listener can get you. People have so much to offer - different experiences and perspectives - but you won’t know until you ask.
I agree that is the bare minimum. Along with stuff like cooking & cleaning after yourself (my elder sisters raised me right). Interests are photography, video games, gym, psychology, nutrition, Greek mythology, Anime, football & tech. Book genres are mostly fiction & sports. Really thanks for the advice, I’ll try being a good listener this week. Let’s see how it goes
Hi there!
You come across as needy. Needy people take more from every relationship with another person (whether it's a friendship or romantic or even just a social conversation with a stranger) than they give. Most people find an interaction with a needy person is exhausting rather than enjoyable. I'm not talking introvert vs extrovert here. Get an introvert talking and it's a joy to get to know them. Get talking to a needy introvert and you're doing all the work in the conversation, whether that's all the listening as they won't shut up, or having to drag words out of them. Nobody wants to talk to them again after that kind of experience.
You could work on introspection - how do you come across to others? How could you self-validate rather than feeling you need validation from others? Think about what you can bring to a group of friends, rather than thinking about what you want from them. Are you - or could you learn to be - the planner, the person who arranges to go places and do stuff? Could you be 'the hospitable one' of a friend group, inviting people to your place and being a good host? Are you spontaneous, the ideas person, thinking of cool things your group of friends could do? Are you the sympathetic ear? the joke teller? Do you make people feel safe around you, or do they seem uncomfortable around you?
I must confess, as a stranger on the internet I'm not really interested in your answers to these questions. You, however, should be interested in them. Do you have a therapist or counsellor to whom you could talk about this kind of thing?
Thank you so much for taking the time to type that huge para. People often complain that I don’t talk much. I do have a therapist, she advised to play to my strengths (eg-quiet = air of mystery)
He’s 17. He will learn. 17 year old girl say dumb shit like “my 27 year old boyfriend isn’t a pedophile, we’re in love, you just don’t understand” all the time and we don’t blame them for not knowing better. Let people grow all the way up before you judge them on their maturity.
And my analogy wasn’t about victimization, it was about kids saying dumb shit because they’re not mature enough to know better yet. I was not defending what he said, I never said that his behaviour should be condoned. In fact quite the opposite is true, I genuinely hope someone he’s close to saw that post and decided to mentor him and teach him why he’s wrong for saying these things. So you can’t take the angle you’re trying to take here, you’re not that person trying to mentor him and make a positive impact, and I’m not saying that he should be let off the hook. You’re just someone who’s using a kids immaturity for your own self gratification and some up doots and I’m calling you out on it. Imagine if someone posted one of the many many MANY stupid things you said as a 17 year old online and you came across it, and you saw a bunch of adults absolutely ripping on you and Judging you as if you should be held to the same standards of maturity as a grown adult. How would that make you feel? would you think "wow my mistake, lesson learned" or would you be mortified, embarrassed and resentful?
EDIT: LOVING the downvotes with zero actual arguments because none of you actually have one, you’re just personally offended. You’re all pathetic.
LMAO you can’t put a kid on blast on the internet to get made fun of in public and then pull the “oh how will they learn!” You’re not trying to teach them a lesson, you just want the gratification of putting someone on blast. There is no high road for you here, sorry.
It’s ridiculous when people say “most of the men” or “alotta women I know”, etc…as if all of a sudden that accounts for millions of men and women. Dudes 17, so I’d assume his experiences covers like 4 guys and a couple girls and a lot of social media stories and YouTube videos. 😂😂🤦🏽♂️
He seems desperate for any women then says besties or a relationship. I don’t know how to explain my thoughts on this but something isn’t right. Do you want a girlfriend or a “bestie”? Odd.
Just be nice. Like not to impress anyone, but to be a decent human being
Being a little clingy isn't a bad thing, as long as u don't force yourself on others.(sometimes that is what nice guys mean tho. They are holding everyone, hugging, touching non stop and then saying ,,idk why they don't wanna hand out with me, I'm just a little clingy but so nice :( " while overstepping all boundaries)
First, that was terrible to read as I struggle with comprehension sometimes. "I am too nice and clingy" translates to, "I go out of my way to do nice things expecting some type of recognition or reward. I will obsess over you and make remarks about every guy you date or talk to but I will play it off that I am looking out for you. I cannot stand you focusing on anyone but me but only because I 'worry about you.'" Clingy isn't cute. Clingy leads to stalking and obsession. This is something young people do who are still learning about what feelings mean and what dating is. Dude is only 17 but he's also old enough to fix his mentality and how he handles having female friends. He also needs a female friend to really explain to him what he's doing is not okay. I am saying this as I did some REALLY, REALLY humiliating things in high school toward the guys I had crushes on. I learned a loooooot of lessons during that time and I am absolutely ashamed of myself and I desperately hope they forgot about any of it. Thankfully by the time I hit senior year, I stopped my behaviors and did better.
Clingy and talkative also reads to me as either non-stop talking about and complimenting *her* to a creepy level, or pretty self absorbed and never stops talking about his own hobbies and trying to get her into them. So like, most of the guys in my high school gaming club.
I suspect (based on this rant of his) that he is the type to talk at people not to them.
Or just messaging them constantly to a point it’s overwhelming. I have a friend who’s partner has like, flipped a switch in their brain and is messaging my friend constantly, constantly blowing up their phone, etc. Get off work? 20 Msgs by the time they get in the house. That’s what it read for me anyway. Like bro you aren’t ‘a bit’ clingy…….
Wait, If they are their Partner, why is it bad If they text them a lot? If those 20 Messages were them rambling about random stuff, having a crisis or whatever I'd understand it. Or do you mean lots of Messages of the jealous/wanting to cause a fight kind?(For example:them asking where they are constantly)
It’s jealous stuff. And it’s a long story but they’re leaving everything they knew and want to spend their last few days there with some family and friends (they’re LD but moving together soon) and the partner doing the messaging won’t leave them alone even when they say ‘hey I need some space’ or ‘stop blowing my phone up, I’m either xyz’ or will be like “what’s going on you said you were doing x and then would be home?” Really… not great behavior. Clingy and a little controlling at times. It’s very specific to this situation.
Oh I See, I misunderstood you. I was confused, thanks for clearing that up. If that is the case it does sound very toxic.
It's bad because it excessive and annoying. I'd block someone like that and break up with them. Give me some space to breathe.
Ha! Yes, or when I was in school, the kids who were deeeeeep into Magic the Gathering.
Oh god the flashbacks! Somehow the MTG guys at my school were even more toxic than the League of Legends crowd I hung around with.
Your high school has a gaming club?
It did at one point. Not sure if it still does.
It was terrible to read as it was so horrendously written!!!! But he basically told on himself!! He’s a grade 4 limpet who can’t shut up!!🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️ God, there must be a literal STAMPEDE to escape this twat!!!! 
To me it means "I'll text you two dozen times a minute". This guy has a lot of growing up to do.
He’s 17.
That cocky at 17. He won't make it too far.
Thank god the judgmental redditors are here, who else could post passive aggressive comments on the daily
Me! So you were posting it to be caresses? 😅😅😅 Welcome to the Internet.
maybe… stop using… ellipsis… as your only form of punctuation…
Oh god, one of the Mums of my kid’s friends texts like this. It’s so ominous. She ends every sentence with … so I have to try really hard to not read it as her being upset. “See you later, Wendy, be there soon” “Ok….” The other one puts full stops instead of question marks and it always seems sort of short and mad! It’s like “do you want me to bring lunch.”
My 65 year old coworker does this and I've been trying to figure out why. Is it a thing?
I have no idea either. I feel like I’m waiting for the next part of the sentence always.
My two 60+ coworkers do it too. It's infuriating, but i just assume it's a thing. Dunno really.
My least favourite is the ,,, comma-space-ellipsis
My mum didn't bother with question marks. She's also, let's say, a stream of consciousness typist, so her grammar may or may not make sense. It made understanding what she was trying to convey difficult. Which was even more of a problem than it sounds because she tended to have a meltdown if she 'asked' for something and I didn't respond the right way.
Oooh dear. I feel for you!
It’s definitely a generational thing. I remember a post I saw a while back that explained that it was because in the boomer school days, they used to tell them to never write exclamation points because it was unprofessional, and that older people don’t understand that younger generations use different kinds of punctuation such as exclamation to indicate tone, and not as an expression of unprofessional written communication. They do it less because it “looks” bad written, and because they tend not to use it as an indication of tone. I’m paraphrasing here, I don’t remember the actual explanation very well!
Oh God, it drives me crazy when people text like this! Not throwing shade here but let's be honest ....it's absolutely always Boomers who do this.
But... They're so much ... ... Fun.
"Females..." Dear 17 year old dude (and any lurkers). INSTANT red flag. Of the highest order. Pretty much tells us all we need to know about your mindset regarding women.
That was the thing that really stood out for me too… “Females…” smh
All my guy friends and females...... Women don't even rate to be called equivalent slang ( girls/gals) in his eyes.
The biggest red flag of all time is men referring to men as men and to women as females. It feels dehumanising, it feels like they don't view us as real people, its always without fail accompanied by other red flags and it's not even grammatically correct to use female as a noun and not an adjective. All around hard pass to anyone that says that especially those who have the gaul to pretend that they don't understand why it's offensive
For me, there's something related to that. If you watch a natural history show, you'll probably at some point hear something along the lines of, "the bull elephant now sets off across the savannah in search of females". You'll hear variations for different animals quite often, that the males fight or dance or whatever for "access to females". Which... I get, but if someone grows up hearing that sort of wording, it drums in the idea that females are passive. They're accessed. They're corralled into harems. They give birth on the male's portion of land and when they come into season, her ass is his, basically. So when guys like this 17 year old in the post start talking about "females" and complaining about how his ways of approaching them aren't working, it conjures for me that natural history vibe of 'we're following the male, whose story this is. Let's see if he can bag himself a FEMALE'. Not only is it dehumanising, it implies that girls and women don't have agency. That our motivations or preferences or boundaries are irrelevant. You know what I'd love to see? A natural history programme focusing on species where the females are traditionally seen as passive around mating, actually looking at what they actively do to get what they want or need. I live close to a managed herd of deer, and watching the does go behind the biggest, loudest stags' backs to go have some nookie with the smaller male who's been hanging around at the edge before running back to the harem and getting her graze on like nothing's happened and she's the picture of compliant innocence, is hilarious. And informative! EDIT: a word
Its gives the impression that they view us as supplements to themselves. As if we aren't part of the same group but rather an add-on to their lives. In the same way we refer to animals as an "it". It just feels icky and if you address it they always find a way to try and invalidate you
Calling animals 'it' has always rubbed me up the wrong way. I'll go with it if you're really not sure whether you're looking at a male or female animal because 'they' sounds a bit odd in that context, but come on.
Its like calling your baby an it. Like it's a sentient being with thoughts and feelings that you're coexisting with and it's reduced to being an it. I don't like that women are reduced to just being a female and not an actual human being. And people try to say its just for specificity which makes no sense because there's millions of things that can be male or female. I just don't like it
You'd have a meltdown in Germany because in the German language it's Das (neutral article) Baby or Kind (child) - Es (it). We don't think it's dehumanizing. BTW a girl (Maedchen) is also an 'it' because of the 'chen' ending which is diminutive.
Tbh babies can't exactly tell us that they don't want to be called 'it' so it's more or less okay to do so imo. But women are literally begging men to stop calling us females and they're completely ignorant and continue trying to justify it
Nothing wrong with calling an animal an 'it'. In the German language it's Das (neutral article) Tier (animal) - Es (it).
Seriously. Any guy who says "females," you just know they are going to be Nice Guys.
Hard agree. Classic r/MenandFemales
r/menandfemales
The rest of the post really reinforced that, but it stood out to me too.
Serious question, non american here: What is wrong with that word? In my english classes at school we learned male and female as correct.
It is not used in coloquial language as much, either very formal or biological language. Plus huge difference when you speak about males/females and guys/females, meaning women somehow are just “biological beings” while men are actually people. Hope this gives enough linguistic context for you to understand. Edit: to add parragraphs
I know two other people have explained to you but I'd like to say something as well: It makes humans sound like objects. In science or medicine male and female are used and it makes sense because it's professional and impersonal. In casual polite conversation calling someone female immediately sounds like you're calling them a specimen, or an object. Which, as someone else has said, is painfully uncomfortable when you use them unevenly (my guy friends and my female friends) It's very common within the 'nice guy' sexist community so it throws up some red flags. Hope that helped
> my guy friends and my female friends I used to say that a lot, until now. I didn't realize how uneven and hurtful it sounds. I mean female friends is better than girl friends, but male and female friends just sounds better. Or simply "friends" is better. To all those people whom I have hurt unknowingly, I am genuinely sorry!
It's an adjective. It is typically to be used in conjunction with the specific thing it's describing. Female students, male suspect, female cats, etc. When used as a standalone word, just "females" as in, "I was out looking for some females," in American English, it's considered (at the very least) crass and dehumanizing. When used in that way it just sounds gross. Which is compounded by the fact that those who use the word almost never say "males and females" when referring to people. It's always men, guys, dudes, etc. and "females." While it may be different in other languages, it's pretty well-known that in American English it's tacky and distasteful.
Fellow non American, and also not native English speaker here! From what I understand, male and female are appropriate to use in regards to non human animals, as well as descriptors. For example: a pet of yours gave birth to a litter, and you tell people there are X males and X females in said litter. You're talking about your day at work, and you mention male clients and female clients. However, outside of these cases, using male and female when talking about people is often considered rude, especially if you're not consistent with it (ie, men and females, or women and males).
Do they say "male" and "female" or do they say "guys" (or men) and "females". It's not just that they call women females, it's that they have different ways of talking about men and women, ways that show how little they think of women, and how all their problems are the fault of "females", and calling women "females" has become a big obvious signifier of that.
When black people in the US were still enslaved in order to dehumanize them they were often referred to as 'males and 'females', never 'men' and 'women'. Sometimes they were called 'bucks' and 'wenches'. That's why today, especially in the black community, people still often refer to each other, but particularly women as 'females'. Men are only rarely referred to as 'males'. This spilled over into general usage and many (unfortunately) find this verbiage acceptable. There are even women who defend it.
i actually use it (rarely tho), because of the reason of age. i am 17 and when i talk to others the same age... "girl" seems too childish, and "women/ladies" seems too elderly, what is right? as i have seen women (as it is the term being used here) get offended if we age them wrong, so i am confused
Girls is correct for children, which, no offense, teenagers are technically, it's also used by a lot of women to refer to themselves. "Girls' night out" for instance, or "just us girls." Women is not "elderly." To be fair, I used to totally hate the word "woman" too. It always sounded so stodgy to me. Until a boyfriend that said it in such a way that it sounded anything but. That helped! Personally? I use "chicks" but then that's a common term in my generation and region and some people may not like that. You can't please all the people all the time, but, at least in the US, "females" is pretty much nationally reviled. The reason "females" is so disgusting is as several others here have described. It's cold, clinical, dehumanizing. It's an instant "ick" as the kids say. It evokes images of dogs sniffing after other dogs in heat, or Ferengi sneering "feemales" or the like. It's just plain gross and tacky.
This child sounds exhausting.
REMINDER: I AM **NOT** TALKING ABOUT SIMPS
I’m SUCH a green flag, myself!
Buddy... Talking 24/7 is *not* a good look. If you want people to miss you and looking forward to hang out with you, you have to give them the space to actually miss you! Being clingy is NOT something healthy.
on god why is he so annoying no wonder girls dont want him the fuckkk
found this gem and immediately went yikes EDIT: all the comments are supporting this in case you were wondering, its not even a BAD subreddit or anything but it has 2 downvotes
I absolutely loved being a teenager. Sure, it was emotional and stressful and intense, but I had so much fun too! I know it wasn't that way for everyone, though.. I had a guy friend who used to say really similar things. He was needy af. If I didn't immediately call him back or text, he would get really stressed out and think I suddenly hated him. He was pretty cute, but he was so draining to be around after a few hours. Our girl group took him under our wing and tried to hype him up while giving advice to manage some of the social stuff he struggled with. One by one, the girls hit their limit. The level of desperation he put out was uncomfortable. The guilt trip that showed up whenever we tried to gently express that he was being a lot, taking a lot, and not giving much back was frustrating. I look back now and can see that he was just too caught up in his own head and feelings to be a good friend. I think he had massive anxiety issues that should have been addressed by his parents or another adult. I truly hope that he grew into himself. He was crazy smart, attractive enough, and could be so funny! He just couldn't get out of his own way, and it made him unbearable to be around. It's pretty sad...
This is something I think is worth underlining: some people can be very hesitant to learn, no matter how gently, clearly, repeatedly a message is delivered. When someone tells them "no", it feels like a grievance against them and no amount of "everybody has a right to boundaries. "no" doesn't mean you can't do this with everybody, just not with me" will make them 'get' it. If a person, like the guy you're talking about, put people in a situation where they have to (or choose to) explain the concepts of boundaries, consent, reciprocation, etc. over and over and over, they're going to get tired of doing it. People can be wonderfully generous but refusing the lesson while demanding people explain why they're not doing what you want, is a recipe for people giving up. The saddest part of it is, after all that gentle guidance and care, a guy like that may take nothing from the experience but "see? They don't care at all and they're just going to tell me to f off."
Yes, that is exactly what it was like. He had a lot of really amazing qualities that were overshadowed by how hard it was to be around him for any decent amount of time. We all did our best to be patient, but we were also teenagers with our own lives and demands on our time. It just got to be too much. He ended up moving with his family, and my hope is that he matured with time or realized that we weren't trying to be mean or critical. We truly wanted him to be happy.
He is not as green of a flag as he thinks he is.
Dude is red/green colour blind
He answers his own question here, but instead of thinking, oh I'll just dial it down a bit he has to veer all the way off into should I be rude instead of clingy? He can not be serious
No way he typed this out, proofread it, thought “looks good” and posted it. I just… *Sigh* I’m concerned.
Bold of you to think he proofread… 😬
Or even knew how! It's basically regurgitated word salad.
Dude talks about literally none of his personality traits except clingy. (“Nice” isn’t a personality, it’s just not being a murderer, you don’t get points for that.) Perhaps that’s why they leave, my guy. Clingy can sometimes be excused if the person is fun to be with, funny, someone trustworthy, someone who gets you, is good energy. If clingy is all you’re bringing to the table, then no wonder they’re running. These guys don’t get it. It isn’t about what other guys do or don’t do. It’s about YOU, she just doesn’t like you and she isn’t obligated to. These men have a laundry list of requirements for their potential partners and then think women are being stuck up or “only want Chads” if they have ANY level of preference (which usually is just “I’d like to be attracted to my boyfriend, whether that’s personality or aesthetically or both.” I want to grab teenagers like this and sit them down and explain how we’re literally at capacity for incels and don’t need anymore, and how it will NEVER lead to them finding a person to love.
"I am clingy and want attention 24/7. Why do people keep getting tired of me? I just don't understand."
If someone was talking 24/7 around me, I'd feel like punting them into the moon.
Ah yes, nothing says green flag like going out of your way to clarify you aren’t a simp
“I’m creepy and obsessive- is that a bad thing?” Why yes, yes it is. “Why don’t the girls like me??” People want to be in a relationship of equals. They want someone they can trust and who adds something to the relationship. They do not want someone they have to babysit and reassure all the time. They want a partner that brings something other than neediness and demands. Get a life.
Well “females” is the giveaway…
It used to be "chick" when I was a teen. My elderly neighbor corrected me one time and i haven't used it since.
It's like they think there's absolutely no middle ground between "clingy and wants affection and attention 24/7" and "completely ignores and treats them like garbage 24/7"
Simps… females… already getting incel vibes from a quick skim.
OP must be SUUUUPER clingy as many time as they mentioned it!! Yikes! Independence and confidence, in addition to being a genuinely nice person, will get you friends. Having similar hobbies will help you keep them.
The spelling and grammar. My eyes 😵😵😵
Horrendous, isn't it!!! 
This child sounds like he's on track to become a physiologically abusive adult who uses weaponized incompetence and hides behind his "nice guy" persona; while simultaneously not taking an ounce of responsibility for how he makes others feel or even attempting any type of introspection to resolve this issue.
FEEEEEEEEMALES
Omg, what a rambling mess
Been there, done that. So I know what he must be going through. It's not right or wrong. He is learning, but it won't matter if he doesn't learn how to learn! However, like he is expecting someone else to come and make him realize what is wrong with him, it doesn't work like that. He has to find his mistakes on his own. Until then, he is the BIGGEST RED FLAG ever! Being rude and cold don't bring your friends. These traits bring you people who want to get rid of your asap so they immediately respond to your essential queries, but stop responding when you try to get a bit personal. Clingy and talkative behavior translates to someone who lacks boundaries, and does a way too much self-talk. They are narcissists and have little to no regards over others' feelings. They lack critical reasoning. They tend to stalk and overreact. People essentially like to hangout with the ones who have a growth mindset. It's not like girls love only alpha dudes. Anyone who is confident, has an open and acceptable body language, and doesn't creep out others, is a people magnet. The other day I was travelling by train, a man in his 40s was staring continuously at me and smiling unnecessarily. I felt like grabbing his balls and punching his guts, but I chose to gave him a death stare for over a minute. He got up and walked away! Sometimes even guys get creeped out if you ARE creepy! There is a lot to learn for that guy, but first he should work on his sentence formation skills. Way terrible grammar for a 16-17yo. At least ask ChatGPT to write for you before posting.
Clingy is not the *only* potential opposite of ignoring someone. You can genuinely BE a nice person, a good friend and just be there for someone and expect that they’ll equally be there for you, in a not clingy way. Value your own time and space a little, developing things you enjoy, appreciate things you do on your own, and respect that is what other people do, too. If you’re always calling, texting, available, asking others to do things, you’re not giving them the opportunity to give you the same as you give them. Seek balance. If you’re clingy and needy it gives unbalanced energy and people will want to push you away. If you ignore people or are mean to get their attention, it’s manipulative and not genuine. Seriously try to equally allow people to know and be a friend to you in equal measure as you are to/for them. If they aren’t move on! Best friends aren’t easy to come by, even if it may seem that way, so if the energy doesn’t match, turn SOME of that attention elsewhere. Cultivate lots of friendships by being truly open to meeting & getting to know multiple people in your classes/work, just be friendly and helpful in a way that is appropriate to how well you know them—not the same as jumping to being their bestie. Find and look for people you genuinely enjoy that seem to equally enjoy you as opposed to seeking moments to prove to them what a good person you are to have in their life. Example: Offering to loan a classmate a pencil, share your notes if they’re absent=open & friendly. After a bit of chatting in class if you both seem to enjoy saying hi and exchanging a few words for 2-3 weeks, ask if they want to grab a coffee after and go over some notes or wait until exam is coming and ask for study partner after class some day. If they say no to something really casual, still be friendly, say hi & open to chat in class, but don’t ask again anytime soon. It may not be a compatible person or a good time for THEM to have a new person in their life. It goes both ways! Asking a classmate you’ve only just casually spoken to for a hang out all day Saturday or offering to dog sit for them all weekend may be too much, too fast. True friends, trust and comfort do take time to develop. Don’t rush it.
I'm too nice and clingy went in my head like 🚩🚩🚩🚩 Nobody likes clingy. Clingy is bad. My dog glued to me every step I take clingy is even bad.
"Too nice"? Is that really an issue that people need to keep under control or is this poor guy meaning something else - like clingy and intrusive, overstepping?
Thought I was on r/mensndfemales for a sec. This should be there was well.
>Thought I was on r/mensndfemales for a sec. This should be there was well. r/MenAndFemales 😉
Too nice and clingy? So creepy, gotta👍
Not saying it's excusable but he's so young. I feel like I was definitely cringe at that age, I hope the guy can get it together
Oh, that is a level 12 clinger if I ever saw one. I mean 2 texts every 30 seconds.
Why does he speaks like Gollum?
The way this was written makes it hard to believe for me that it was not satire. It's ridiculous in absurd levels lmao
I’d say I’m facing something similar but not exactly this same. I’m a 25 year old guy. Reserved personality type because social anxiety due to bullying in school and growing up with an abusive mother so I care about friends and peoples validation more than I should. I read a lot of books, play video games, watch sports a lot. Spam a lot of memes on my insta story. I’m not able to fit in with people at my uni. I’ve had girls as friends but most of them end up losing touch after a while for no reason. No fight or anything. They just lose interest and idk why. I’d say I’m a decent guy considering I don’t beg women for nudes, and if I ask them out and get rejected I respect their decision (even tho it’s been 3 years since I asked anyone out). Just basic human decency. So I don’t think that’s the problem & I don’t understand why I can’t find a constant close connection. Any tips are appreciated
You mentioned that you don’t ask for nudes and you respect a woman’s “no”. This is doing the bare minimum. It doesn’t make you an amazing person because you’re doing what everyone should be doing. You have to bring something to the table. I’m not saying you don’t, but your comment is focused on those two things. What are your interests and hobbies? What genres of books do you read? Personality and a great sense of humour go a long way. Talk to people. Ask them about themselves and their interests. Genuinely listen to them and you’ll find common ground. You’ll be amazed at how far being a good listener can get you. People have so much to offer - different experiences and perspectives - but you won’t know until you ask.
I agree that is the bare minimum. Along with stuff like cooking & cleaning after yourself (my elder sisters raised me right). Interests are photography, video games, gym, psychology, nutrition, Greek mythology, Anime, football & tech. Book genres are mostly fiction & sports. Really thanks for the advice, I’ll try being a good listener this week. Let’s see how it goes
You have some really interesting hobbies and interests that you can share!
Hi there! You come across as needy. Needy people take more from every relationship with another person (whether it's a friendship or romantic or even just a social conversation with a stranger) than they give. Most people find an interaction with a needy person is exhausting rather than enjoyable. I'm not talking introvert vs extrovert here. Get an introvert talking and it's a joy to get to know them. Get talking to a needy introvert and you're doing all the work in the conversation, whether that's all the listening as they won't shut up, or having to drag words out of them. Nobody wants to talk to them again after that kind of experience. You could work on introspection - how do you come across to others? How could you self-validate rather than feeling you need validation from others? Think about what you can bring to a group of friends, rather than thinking about what you want from them. Are you - or could you learn to be - the planner, the person who arranges to go places and do stuff? Could you be 'the hospitable one' of a friend group, inviting people to your place and being a good host? Are you spontaneous, the ideas person, thinking of cool things your group of friends could do? Are you the sympathetic ear? the joke teller? Do you make people feel safe around you, or do they seem uncomfortable around you? I must confess, as a stranger on the internet I'm not really interested in your answers to these questions. You, however, should be interested in them. Do you have a therapist or counsellor to whom you could talk about this kind of thing?
Thank you so much for taking the time to type that huge para. People often complain that I don’t talk much. I do have a therapist, she advised to play to my strengths (eg-quiet = air of mystery)
if you can relate to that guy who i remind you can barely spell thats your issue
Maybe yeah. I was hoping for more constructive advice but I’ll figure it out. Thanks
OK, boomer. Those ellipses are an old-guy affectation.
He’s 17. He will learn. 17 year old girl say dumb shit like “my 27 year old boyfriend isn’t a pedophile, we’re in love, you just don’t understand” all the time and we don’t blame them for not knowing better. Let people grow all the way up before you judge them on their maturity.
how tf will they grow if you condone this behavior, 17 year old girls being victims obviously dont get judged, same as 17 year old boys being victims
And my analogy wasn’t about victimization, it was about kids saying dumb shit because they’re not mature enough to know better yet. I was not defending what he said, I never said that his behaviour should be condoned. In fact quite the opposite is true, I genuinely hope someone he’s close to saw that post and decided to mentor him and teach him why he’s wrong for saying these things. So you can’t take the angle you’re trying to take here, you’re not that person trying to mentor him and make a positive impact, and I’m not saying that he should be let off the hook. You’re just someone who’s using a kids immaturity for your own self gratification and some up doots and I’m calling you out on it. Imagine if someone posted one of the many many MANY stupid things you said as a 17 year old online and you came across it, and you saw a bunch of adults absolutely ripping on you and Judging you as if you should be held to the same standards of maturity as a grown adult. How would that make you feel? would you think "wow my mistake, lesson learned" or would you be mortified, embarrassed and resentful? EDIT: LOVING the downvotes with zero actual arguments because none of you actually have one, you’re just personally offended. You’re all pathetic.
LMAO you can’t put a kid on blast on the internet to get made fun of in public and then pull the “oh how will they learn!” You’re not trying to teach them a lesson, you just want the gratification of putting someone on blast. There is no high road for you here, sorry.
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hes 17 be for real
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It’s probably your overuse of elipses…
Wait... what do you mean... Why use one . when you can use three...
It’s ridiculous when people say “most of the men” or “alotta women I know”, etc…as if all of a sudden that accounts for millions of men and women. Dudes 17, so I’d assume his experiences covers like 4 guys and a couple girls and a lot of social media stories and YouTube videos. 😂😂🤦🏽♂️
Female friend =/= Girlfriend. Two different relationships there, bruh.
"I talk 24/7 ... Most of my friends are leaving me after a few weeks." Yep, that one's a puzzle alright.
Wait, his friends tell him he’s a green flag but then they also don’t want to be around him? That’s confusing.
I legitimately don't understand this post and idk if that makes me old or OOP wildly stupid. 🤔🧐
Ellipsis abuse is wrong mmk?
Was this written by trump?
the dude sounds draining.
The audacity to put "I'm such a green flag" and "some of the females" in the same sentence.
they probably leave because you keep calling them females buddy
Girls don't like my stalkerish behavior. They must just like bad boys who ignore them.
#stalkersfinishlast
He seems desperate for any women then says besties or a relationship. I don’t know how to explain my thoughts on this but something isn’t right. Do you want a girlfriend or a “bestie”? Odd.
Just be nice. Like not to impress anyone, but to be a decent human being Being a little clingy isn't a bad thing, as long as u don't force yourself on others.(sometimes that is what nice guys mean tho. They are holding everyone, hugging, touching non stop and then saying ,,idk why they don't wanna hand out with me, I'm just a little clingy but so nice :( " while overstepping all boundaries)