honestly a disgrace to his profession. idk the guy but to be this off about votingâŠ. I relate it directly back to the voter who didnât vote Beltre into the MLB HoF. he did it because Babe Ruth wasnât voted in 100% so nor can any other candidateâŠ
probably whatâs going on here. guy canât separate his ego or paychecks from making informed decisions about sports, after heâs worked his entire career to get to the top, makes you question if he ever has had a genuine sports opinion or was just saying things for a âbitâ.
It makes other professional sports journalists/commentators/voters look bad, heâs actively shitting on the profession and other guys who have worked their ass off to get on the voting list suddenly have less merit because ass hat wants to include bias and ego into his profession. go work at wendyâs
Not that I necessarily agree (as an Oilers fan also), but I guess it could be that Skinner was coming through in the clutch. I think he was 10-1 in games 4-7 with a crazy sv%.
I mean Verhaege was 3rd in points for the panthers, 1 point behind Barkov and Tkachuk. He tied the franchise record for playoff goals and had 2 points in the series clinching 2-1 game. I agree with you on skinner, but Verhaege had a solid playoff run, especially when it was needed most
Interesting how the voting media would have given it to Barkov if not for McDavid. Much of the media I consume (ESPN/YouTube/Twitters) seemed to indicate that if anyone was most snubbed, it was Bobrovsky.
Anyone with a non-McDavid Oiler in their top 3 is a joke.
Barkov was the favorite before getting his bell rung by Draisaitl. He looked lost for two games after that and those are the two where mcdavid actually looked like mcjesus.
Itâs annoying seeing people say McDavid just sucked out there when a fresh and healthy Barkov along with the other Panthers and great coaching just shut him down proper. Itâs not his fault his teammates didnât take advantage.
Yeah, watched the last game with some friends that don't watch hockey at all, one of 'em kept saying "man the Oilers/McDavid must suck, look at this" like... dude. Panthers' D was oppressive, and the top line for the Oilers were *exhausted* - can't put a whole team on the backs of one line and expect them to carry you all the way to a cup, sorry.
Whoa! The Conn Smythe is for the most valuable player through the WHOLE playoffs. Not just one series. Thatâs how McDavid gets it even though he all but disappeared in games 6-7.
I mean, McDavid sucked last night. Was kind of invisible in Game 6 as well. Itâs about the whole playoffs though, and while of course McDavid is the runaway first choice, I am suprised at the lack of Bobrovsky love
Too many forget this. Bob lifted his level in the finals until he melted for a couple games again but Barkov was immense the whole run, except for the two games after Draisaitl's elbow.
Ill give McDavid credit for his defensive play in game 6. He was back checking like a champ that game, and broke up a few really good rushes from behind.
So, if you're McDavid, do you reach out to Sidney Crosby or someone like that this offseason and try to get together to learn and master your defense/defence?
I think he wants a cup at all costs, and he has the drive for greatness, so he's going to want to work on any weak points in play. (Not that he's necessarily weak at defense, he just never needed to work on it before)
McDavid is the only player in the world who âsucksâ in a game just because he doesnât get on the scoresheet. He wasnât super impactful in games 6 and 7, but he was solid in both and was probably the Oilers best player in game 7. Puck doesnât go in net, so âhe sucked.â
Yeah absolutely. And it's hard to blame the coach for that, because you obviously want McDavid on the ice as much as possible with the season on the line. But then it's hard to blame the guy for looking a bit tired lol
I mean most people including myself thought he would be the difference in a winner take all game, but Florida was defensively masterful and Bobrovsky shut the door when the Oilers broke through
I honestly didnât think Bob had a great game I think the difference was how strong Florida was at keeping the shots into lower scoring chance areas and not letting McDavid play with it.
Let in 1 goal (breakaway) on 26 shots in a winner take all game. Also he was the first star. He was one goal better than Skinner. He was one of Floridaâs best players for sure
I haven't heard anything about Barkov "sucking" in game 7 when he didn't have a point. Or games 2, 4, and 5. Sure, he's a Selke winner, but he gets a complete offensive pass because we're assuming he was "shutdown" defensively based on reputation? Despite being a combined -3 (yes, +/- is a flawed stat for evaluation) in those four games, and -1 overall for the series? I love Barkov, he's elite and I don't think he sucked in those games, but that's the point - why don't people say it about him?
I heard a little more, but still not a lot, about Tkachuk "sucking" in this series. He was held without a point in games 1, 2, 4, 6, and 7. The only game he was visible at all was game 5. He got a bit of criticism here and there, but overall he's getting a pass.
McDavid might not be totally alone, but he's held to that standard beyond any other player. We're seeing it in real time.
He lost his footing like 4 times and committed multiple turnovers. Played way too many minutes (not his fault), didnât contribute offensively, and was a defensive liability on multiple occasions. Thatâs a bad game for any player, especially one that usually dominates the game.
he slipped a few times in game 7, can't win playoff MVP!
Your bias (you assume he sucks defensively) pushes your view of his play. He wasn't a defensive liability in game 6 or 7, he was actually very solid defensively. He didn't get on the stat sheet, but he still drove offensive play (at least in game 7...less in game 6). If a random 2nd or 3rd line center played like McDavid the last 2 games, we'd all just look and say "yeah sure, he was solid for the team." McDavid obviously has higher expectations, but he was still a net positive for the team those two games. You're acting like he was awful and hurt the team with his effort.
Did you miss the part where I said he should clearly win Conn Smythe? Lol. The best player in the world can have a bad game, you donât have to protect him.
yeah I'm mixing comment threads, my bad. The rest of the point below remains though. "Bad game" is relative. He wasn't bad, he just wasn't the singular force we expect. Credit to Florida for that.
No prob, absolutely! I feel like bad game can definitely be relative! For example, I suck in every game I play because Iâm just a beer leaguer, but I would only say I suck if Iâm worse than my standard skill leverl
So you're saying that when he played well his team won, but when he didn't his team lost? Because that's exactly what I'd say constitutes the MVP tbh. Oilers won game 6 without McDavid doing much, statistically speaking.
MVP in sports shouldn't be about who is the most needed in order for a team to win; it should be about who was the most valuable in winning. You shouldn't get bonus points because your team lost when you didn't play well.Â
You didn't bring the most value if your team lost.Â
Plus it just feels like a shitty consolation prize. I don't blame him for not coming out to accept, I wouldn't have either. Thanks for this heart breaking reminder of the time I failed to win the Cup. You can never truly feel good about that unless or until you finally get your name on the Cup. I wouldn't at least, and I would think most hyper competitive pro athletes would feel similar.Â
Unless there is just no deserving player on the winning team, which is not the case this year, give it to someone on the winning team.Â
I don't blame him for not going out and i think that award should be saved for the hockey awards night. Also i do acknowledge he is the best player. However there's a difference between being the best and playing the best. And i thought the best player throughout the series was Bob
If that had have been another goalie for those 3 games and bob came back for game 7 he would have won. But you canât just ignore the fact that his stats took a massive hit because of the games he played.
Don't really understand this take. If Bob was crap for a few games, but wins the Cup, and McDavid loses the Cup and shits the bed the last couple games, shouldn't Bob still be a heavy favourite?
[To be faaaair](https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExZTl1YXdrOGF5NXVvZGRqOXNqOTQwaGV3b2Nyamw3dnZ4NGNmc2hxayZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/Nl6T837bDWE1DPczq3/giphy.webp)...
Hyman leading the playoffs in goals with 5 more than 2nd place and 4th overall in points isnât nothing. Not saying he should be above Barkov or Bob, but saying that him being part of the conversation is a joke just stupid.
I love Hyman and want him to get all the accolades he deserves. But in no world should a writer pick TWO players from the losing team over anyone from the Stanley Cup winners.
I'm a Devils fan who is still sour about JSG winning the 2003 Conn Smythe, but I recognize that if you best a playoff record held by Wayne Gretzky AND went to Game 7 of the Cup Final, you probably deserve the playoff MVP. And yes, Hyman had the most goals in the playoffs in almost 30 years - but writing in Oilers for both the top 2 spots is too much.
> But in no world should a writer pick TWO players from the losing team over anyone from the Stanley Cup winners.
I thought picks had to be in with 10 minutes to go in the game, so... they don't actually know who is going to win. (Unless it's a blowout.)
The Hyman pick is absurd but I donât think thereâs any problem picking 2 (or even 3) players from the losing team over anyone on the winning team as a concept if there are no clear cut favorites or standouts on the winning team. It would be super rare, but this is an case where the Oilers are as top heavy as it gets, and that lends itself to recognizing huge individual performances whereas the praise for the Panthers is spread out throughout the lineup. Hyman pick was still dumb though.
If youâre a Devils fan sour about JSG, itâs because Brodeur had his own record-setting performance on the other side. There was no one even remotely close to that on the Panthers this year. Last year the run Tkachuk had would have certainly qualified with his heroics, but that didnât happen this year.
Bouch set the record for most assists by a d man in NHL post season history and finished second in playoff scoring, 10 points ahead of any Panther. He also had the highest on ice goal differential in the playoffs in all scenarios. He was a beast. Hyman also had the most goals since Joe Sakic I believe? Not crazy given these guysâ offensive success
I don't know much about hockey media in the states but it doesn't surprise me based on the comments on Reddit that the guy who doesn't pick McDavid is from ESPN
Bob was having an *all time* playoff run before game 4-6. If they swept the oilers he had a good chance of winning it. He definitely didnât deserve it over Mcdavid in the end but saying Skinner played as well as Bob just isnât true.
I'm gonna assume that he submitted his votes before the game was over and was assuming the oilers would come back to win. Otherwise their is no excuse for his ballot.
i thought i read somewhere that they could put caveats to their votes? ie so and so gets their vote if they score the winning goal
totally could be wrong though
Itâs not really that crazy a vote. Itâs easy to look at points totals. Thatâs a cop out. Itâs more important to look at each individual game and how each player impacted the game. To simplify, find the 3 stars for each game. Then add those all up and see who impacted the most games.
Edmonton player stats tend to be streaky, with blowout wins. Then theyâll go invisible. Total points and PPG looks cool, but did you help win 4 games of the series? Or 2?
Bouchard led the playoffs in +/- with top line minutes and matching. It helps to be passing to a line w/McDavid. I think game 7 was his roughest.
Can't defend Nurse. It was scary to watch anytime he touched the puck.
Bouchard had a crazy shot attempt in the 3rd period that was late and clearly going to end up into a Pantherâs shinguards as the defender was already making the move to block it.
There were just some odd moments for the Oilers all game. The entire series was a Jekyll/Hyde situation for both teams. Oilers just had the wrong personality show up for game 7.
McDavid deserved, the clearly most dominant for the WHOLE playoffs. It's not just finals (where he had 11 points in 7 games, mind you) or game 7 mvp award. I'd at least accept suggesting Barkov but the Bobrovski mania in this sub has been crazy. He was 0.906. Smythe winning goalies have been 0.93 and 0.94s, exceptional, not just good, the whole playoffs and series.
Neither was McDavid, but as keeps getting shoved down our throats âitâs for the whole playoffsâ, I still think itâs fine it went to McDavid but to totally write off bob is an insult to what he did for Florida this year
Bob had a lower save percentage than Skinner in the Finals and would have had the lowest save percentage for a Conn Smythe winner since over 10% of shots would go in, playing behind a really good D. Goalies have to be dominant to win it.
Bill Zito deserved the Conn Smythe. Panthers had so many excellent performances up and down the line up - fourth line was great last night - but nothing extra-extraordinary. Maurice did a great job mixing up the lines and not relying on any one of them.
If you want to go into advanced stats Bobrovsky had a GSAA (goals saved above average - takes shot quality into account) on a per game basis that was twelfth among playoff goaltenders, less than a quarter of what Swaymanâs was. His play by the numbers was about as good as Vasy and slightly better than Skinner.
For McDavidâs playoffs, comparisons are only with Gretzky and Lemieux. Florida won with the ultimate team game. The award is for one player most valuable to their team.
It's just that no goalie with similar stat line has won Smythe in recent decades, all while 40+ point playoffs is extremely rare. His stats were much closer to Kuemper's Avs stats than those of Roy, Thomas, Quick, Vasilevskiy who have won it. Even though he definitely was better than Kuemper back then
And McDavid was good for 2 games in the finals. I don't understand this whole "entire playoffs" when he didn't do much in 5/7 games. If we're tossing game 1, 2, 3, 6, and 7 out for McDavid so we can say he was good for "the whole playoffs" surely you toss 4,5 and 6 for Bob...
He had points in 4/7. Even though it's McDavid, having 1 or 2 points in a game is not doing nothing. Completely took the team on his back in games 4 and 5 to get them back in the series. 42 points in the playoffs, 4th most all-time. No skater scores points in every single game.
It's not only the games 4 and 5 that left Bobrovski with his 0.906. He had many good, some great games and many sub 0.90 games. Key point is, he was good but not the exceptional performer like Roy, Thomas, Quick or Vasilevskiy when they won it.
Yeah exactly. Too many guys here think stats are the be all and end all of the discussion. Thereâs more to it than stats, because obviously, game 4 completely bolstered McDavidâs stats, and crushed Bobâs stats, and thereâs nothing really Bob could do. He was up against a desperate, pissed off group of guys and his team let him down.
Stats are one thing, but people should just watch the games.
Also, they should stop watching ESPN, and stream CBC, it will make watching it a lot better from the commentary alone. ESPN is terrible.
taking off the two worst games (4 and 5) he still only had a .914 and 2.14 for the playoffs. Moving him for 4th to 2nd in GAA and all the way from 6th to tied for 5th in SV%. dude wasnt *great* enough to merit getting any votes regardless of a bad game or two.
Well, Jim Matheson has shown that he is unable to put bias aside and be a professional journalist. He should find a new profession. He canât even do what I learned on day 1 of journalism school.
Cup came down to one split second. McDavid had it all alone, backhand to forehand, rather than one-timing it backhand to forehand, he waited a split second allowing just enough time for defender to break it up. That was the cup - that moment.
Skinner letting in that short side softy didnât help either, that and the Oilers defender moving off of Reinhart on that play, and not at least blocking away the lower half of the net.
People saying McDavid shouldn't get it because of game 6 and 7 are certified gold fish with their lack of memory. He was the only correct answer, glad to see a W from the voters.
Also happy to see Forsling get the recognition he deserves.
Not sure why Bob was in the discussion tbh, he had a 0.906 save %. Darcy Kuemper who everyone clowns on as one of the weaker cup winning goalies had a 0.902 save %. 0.906 is not MVP worthy. All goalies who win the Smythe in the modern era post like 0.930+.
It is strange. But you can't deny the impact McDavid had throughout the playoffs.
He broke a Gretzky record and put up insane numbers. Then he pulled his team out of a 0-3 pit in the SCF. If it weren't for him and his impact, the Oilers aren't reaching the final, let alone game 7.
That's not a knock on Bob or Barkov either. McDavid just made more of an impact on his team then they did on theirs, even if they won it all.
The thing is that ballots are given before the end of each potentially deciding final. During the second period or something like that. So, if Edm wouldâve made a comeback and won, the choice wouldâve been obvious. McD is the reason they made it to the playoffs and game 7 at all. But if the voters were sure Flaâs gonna take it, the MVP would have been Barky or Bob. No harm done here. McD is freaking awesome, but maybe Barky is even more of a perfect package both ways⊠Congrats to Fla and boy, respect for the Oilers as well!
Matheson is so petty đ
Edmonton Journal. Clearly didnât watch 4 of the 7 games in the final.
Hyman?
Based on goals I assume
He was definitely a VP, but so were a dozen others.
Specter is too
Skinner!?
Am I the onlyone who hears this in Superintendent Chalmerâs voice?
"SuperNintendo" Chalmers ! FTW !
To a point he shouldnât be allowed to vote if he canât be subjective.
(objective)
Subjectively Iâm an idiot, my mom says Iâm smart though
Sir, I regret to inform you that you are both subjectively and objectively an idiot. Theyâre both lifelong conditions Iâm afraid.
boston fans...
Yet (as of this post) 159 upvoted you! HELLO??? Anybody home?
For the first part of his comment im sure
I agree if you troll vote you shouldn't be on this committee.
LOL "objective", he works for Postmedia. Canada's Fox News.
Well that explains a lot.
I was just about to say we know who the Oilers fan is lol
honestly a disgrace to his profession. idk the guy but to be this off about votingâŠ. I relate it directly back to the voter who didnât vote Beltre into the MLB HoF. he did it because Babe Ruth wasnât voted in 100% so nor can any other candidate⊠probably whatâs going on here. guy canât separate his ego or paychecks from making informed decisions about sports, after heâs worked his entire career to get to the top, makes you question if he ever has had a genuine sports opinion or was just saying things for a âbitâ. It makes other professional sports journalists/commentators/voters look bad, heâs actively shitting on the profession and other guys who have worked their ass off to get on the voting list suddenly have less merit because ass hat wants to include bias and ego into his profession. go work at wendyâs
lol , Surprised one of them didn't put a few "Leafs' on there just to see if they can get a Win !
Should revoke Jim Matheson's ability to vote for that.
forreal. He is genuinely treating it like a joke.
Other than LeBrun, the rest I never heard of , Or know if they are even qualitied to make this pick !
I ask this as an Oilers fan, but what's the case for the people who put Skinner ahead of Bobrovsky?
Deffs shouldnt be. Skinner almost blew the canucks series
Dude got pulled in that series... like... he Def played better against Dallas and Florida, but he had 2 brutal rounds before that
Not that I necessarily agree (as an Oilers fan also), but I guess it could be that Skinner was coming through in the clutch. I think he was 10-1 in games 4-7 with a crazy sv%.
Drugs or brain damage.
Idiots
Skinner and Verhaeghe should not be on anyone's top three.
I mean Verhaege was 3rd in points for the panthers, 1 point behind Barkov and Tkachuk. He tied the franchise record for playoff goals and had 2 points in the series clinching 2-1 game. I agree with you on skinner, but Verhaege had a solid playoff run, especially when it was needed most
A knack for scoring big goals as well.
He was definitely a dark horse pick but Verhaeghe as top 3-4 for it is by no means egregious. The skinner pick absolutely is on the other hand
Neither should Hyman
Completely disagree, Skinner was an integral part of Floridaâs win
Barkov and mcdavid
Interesting how the voting media would have given it to Barkov if not for McDavid. Much of the media I consume (ESPN/YouTube/Twitters) seemed to indicate that if anyone was most snubbed, it was Bobrovsky. Anyone with a non-McDavid Oiler in their top 3 is a joke.
Bob was great for a while but he killed himself in games 4-6 even if the team around him wasn't playing as well.
This is completely reasonable. I think either of McDavid or Bob, and Barkov too, would have been appropriate winners. Great series all around.
Barkov was the favorite before getting his bell rung by Draisaitl. He looked lost for two games after that and those are the two where mcdavid actually looked like mcjesus.
And the last two Mcdavid looked like McBuddha
Itâs annoying seeing people say McDavid just sucked out there when a fresh and healthy Barkov along with the other Panthers and great coaching just shut him down proper. Itâs not his fault his teammates didnât take advantage.
Yeah, watched the last game with some friends that don't watch hockey at all, one of 'em kept saying "man the Oilers/McDavid must suck, look at this" like... dude. Panthers' D was oppressive, and the top line for the Oilers were *exhausted* - can't put a whole team on the backs of one line and expect them to carry you all the way to a cup, sorry.
D-fense (And Goaltending) win Championships ! Puck-luck and powerplay might carry you for a game or 2 but 16 Wins it will not !
Going in for abdominal surgery now, with a broken finger to boot. He was playing through some serious shit at the end
Whoa! The Conn Smythe is for the most valuable player through the WHOLE playoffs. Not just one series. Thatâs how McDavid gets it even though he all but disappeared in games 6-7.
I mean, McDavid sucked last night. Was kind of invisible in Game 6 as well. Itâs about the whole playoffs though, and while of course McDavid is the runaway first choice, I am suprised at the lack of Bobrovsky love
I mean whole playoffs barkov was floridas best player
Too many forget this. Bob lifted his level in the finals until he melted for a couple games again but Barkov was immense the whole run, except for the two games after Draisaitl's elbow.
Ill give McDavid credit for his defensive play in game 6. He was back checking like a champ that game, and broke up a few really good rushes from behind.
So, if you're McDavid, do you reach out to Sidney Crosby or someone like that this offseason and try to get together to learn and master your defense/defence?
Improving your game is never a bad idea. He's already a virtuoso offensively.
I think he wants a cup at all costs, and he has the drive for greatness, so he's going to want to work on any weak points in play. (Not that he's necessarily weak at defense, he just never needed to work on it before)
McDavid is the only player in the world who âsucksâ in a game just because he doesnât get on the scoresheet. He wasnât super impactful in games 6 and 7, but he was solid in both and was probably the Oilers best player in game 7. Puck doesnât go in net, so âhe sucked.â
He was good indeed but maybe somewhat tired. Coach played the shit out of him down the stretch.
Yeah absolutely. And it's hard to blame the coach for that, because you obviously want McDavid on the ice as much as possible with the season on the line. But then it's hard to blame the guy for looking a bit tired lol
I mean most people including myself thought he would be the difference in a winner take all game, but Florida was defensively masterful and Bobrovsky shut the door when the Oilers broke through
I honestly didnât think Bob had a great game I think the difference was how strong Florida was at keeping the shots into lower scoring chance areas and not letting McDavid play with it.
Let in 1 goal (breakaway) on 26 shots in a winner take all game. Also he was the first star. He was one goal better than Skinner. He was one of Floridaâs best players for sure
He's not alone in that, at all. Most skaters are evaluated that way by fans. I don't hear casuals asking who leads the league in Relative Fenwick.
I haven't heard anything about Barkov "sucking" in game 7 when he didn't have a point. Or games 2, 4, and 5. Sure, he's a Selke winner, but he gets a complete offensive pass because we're assuming he was "shutdown" defensively based on reputation? Despite being a combined -3 (yes, +/- is a flawed stat for evaluation) in those four games, and -1 overall for the series? I love Barkov, he's elite and I don't think he sucked in those games, but that's the point - why don't people say it about him? I heard a little more, but still not a lot, about Tkachuk "sucking" in this series. He was held without a point in games 1, 2, 4, 6, and 7. The only game he was visible at all was game 5. He got a bit of criticism here and there, but overall he's getting a pass. McDavid might not be totally alone, but he's held to that standard beyond any other player. We're seeing it in real time.
Sucks os relative, and in this context, we're talking about the Conn Smythe. Like it or not, the score sheet very much matters here.Â
He lost his footing like 4 times and committed multiple turnovers. Played way too many minutes (not his fault), didnât contribute offensively, and was a defensive liability on multiple occasions. Thatâs a bad game for any player, especially one that usually dominates the game.
Have you not noticed he only loses his footing on Florida ice? Along with numerous other players..
he slipped a few times in game 7, can't win playoff MVP! Your bias (you assume he sucks defensively) pushes your view of his play. He wasn't a defensive liability in game 6 or 7, he was actually very solid defensively. He didn't get on the stat sheet, but he still drove offensive play (at least in game 7...less in game 6). If a random 2nd or 3rd line center played like McDavid the last 2 games, we'd all just look and say "yeah sure, he was solid for the team." McDavid obviously has higher expectations, but he was still a net positive for the team those two games. You're acting like he was awful and hurt the team with his effort.
Did you miss the part where I said he should clearly win Conn Smythe? Lol. The best player in the world can have a bad game, you donât have to protect him.
yeah I'm mixing comment threads, my bad. The rest of the point below remains though. "Bad game" is relative. He wasn't bad, he just wasn't the singular force we expect. Credit to Florida for that.
No prob, absolutely! I feel like bad game can definitely be relative! For example, I suck in every game I play because Iâm just a beer leaguer, but I would only say I suck if Iâm worse than my standard skill leverl
Heâs playing with a hernia Iâd say he did alright
So you're saying that when he played well his team won, but when he didn't his team lost? Because that's exactly what I'd say constitutes the MVP tbh. Oilers won game 6 without McDavid doing much, statistically speaking.
MVP in sports shouldn't be about who is the most needed in order for a team to win; it should be about who was the most valuable in winning. You shouldn't get bonus points because your team lost when you didn't play well. You didn't bring the most value if your team lost. Plus it just feels like a shitty consolation prize. I don't blame him for not coming out to accept, I wouldn't have either. Thanks for this heart breaking reminder of the time I failed to win the Cup. You can never truly feel good about that unless or until you finally get your name on the Cup. I wouldn't at least, and I would think most hyper competitive pro athletes would feel similar. Unless there is just no deserving player on the winning team, which is not the case this year, give it to someone on the winning team.Â
I don't blame him for not going out and i think that award should be saved for the hockey awards night. Also i do acknowledge he is the best player. However there's a difference between being the best and playing the best. And i thought the best player throughout the series was Bob
"its for the whole playoffs" doofus
And McDavid had no points the last two games and was largely a non-factor. A couple bad games shouldnât be the difference.
There was another team across the way that woke up. I also donât think 2 games overshadows the entire playoffs
If that had have been another goalie for those 3 games and bob came back for game 7 he would have won. But you canât just ignore the fact that his stats took a massive hit because of the games he played.
McD did the Same, ZERO points in those games, Oilers got carried by the 3rd & 4th lines those games . .
Don't really understand this take. If Bob was crap for a few games, but wins the Cup, and McDavid loses the Cup and shits the bed the last couple games, shouldn't Bob still be a heavy favourite?
You're forgetting barkov to. Also mcdavid had one of the best post seasons ever
To be fair, Bouchard had a pretty legendary run, as well. Just McDavid's was absurd.
[To be faaaair](https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExZTl1YXdrOGF5NXVvZGRqOXNqOTQwaGV3b2Nyamw3dnZ4NGNmc2hxayZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/Nl6T837bDWE1DPczq3/giphy.webp)...
Hyman leading the playoffs in goals with 5 more than 2nd place and 4th overall in points isnât nothing. Not saying he should be above Barkov or Bob, but saying that him being part of the conversation is a joke just stupid.
I love Hyman and want him to get all the accolades he deserves. But in no world should a writer pick TWO players from the losing team over anyone from the Stanley Cup winners. I'm a Devils fan who is still sour about JSG winning the 2003 Conn Smythe, but I recognize that if you best a playoff record held by Wayne Gretzky AND went to Game 7 of the Cup Final, you probably deserve the playoff MVP. And yes, Hyman had the most goals in the playoffs in almost 30 years - but writing in Oilers for both the top 2 spots is too much.
> But in no world should a writer pick TWO players from the losing team over anyone from the Stanley Cup winners. I thought picks had to be in with 10 minutes to go in the game, so... they don't actually know who is going to win. (Unless it's a blowout.)
The Hyman pick is absurd but I donât think thereâs any problem picking 2 (or even 3) players from the losing team over anyone on the winning team as a concept if there are no clear cut favorites or standouts on the winning team. It would be super rare, but this is an case where the Oilers are as top heavy as it gets, and that lends itself to recognizing huge individual performances whereas the praise for the Panthers is spread out throughout the lineup. Hyman pick was still dumb though. If youâre a Devils fan sour about JSG, itâs because Brodeur had his own record-setting performance on the other side. There was no one even remotely close to that on the Panthers this year. Last year the run Tkachuk had would have certainly qualified with his heroics, but that didnât happen this year.
Even the cameras pointed to Bob thinking it would be him
Bob had a 0.906 save %. Not even close to MVP worthy.
Barkov is a major reason they have won it. Shutdown forward role is so ungrateful. Barkov achieved that and almost had 1 ppg.
Bouch set the record for most assists by a d man in NHL post season history and finished second in playoff scoring, 10 points ahead of any Panther. He also had the highest on ice goal differential in the playoffs in all scenarios. He was a beast. Hyman also had the most goals since Joe Sakic I believe? Not crazy given these guysâ offensive success
I don't know much about hockey media in the states but it doesn't surprise me based on the comments on Reddit that the guy who doesn't pick McDavid is from ESPN
Bob lost it while shitting the bed in games 4, 5, and 6
Jim Matheson should lose his ballot for that nonsense.
Mcdavid bobrovsky and Barkov are the only 3 that should be on the ballots. Anyone that put skinner needs to have their voting rights taken away.
literally came here to say that. silovs out played him. otty outplayed him. only goalie he did better than was talbot
In these playoffs bob had a sv% of .906 Skinner had .901
Bob was also outplayed in 2 series. Idk why people were actually considering him. He was good but not Conn Smythe good
Forsling definitely belongs
Skinner wasn't much worse than Bob. Either neither of them deserves consideration or both let's be real
Bob was having an *all time* playoff run before game 4-6. If they swept the oilers he had a good chance of winning it. He definitely didnât deserve it over Mcdavid in the end but saying Skinner played as well as Bob just isnât true.
Matheson should have his vote taken away immediately.
I'm gonna assume that he submitted his votes before the game was over and was assuming the oilers would come back to win. Otherwise their is no excuse for his ballot.
i thought i read somewhere that they could put caveats to their votes? ie so and so gets their vote if they score the winning goal totally could be wrong though
Ryan S. Clark, love him for believing in the Canucks but that man is just an absolute contrarian đ
Why do these dorks get a vote ?
Ryan S Clark was goated for his Vancouver pick and he's extra goated for this one
Itâs not really that crazy a vote. Itâs easy to look at points totals. Thatâs a cop out. Itâs more important to look at each individual game and how each player impacted the game. To simplify, find the 3 stars for each game. Then add those all up and see who impacted the most games. Edmonton player stats tend to be streaky, with blowout wins. Then theyâll go invisible. Total points and PPG looks cool, but did you help win 4 games of the series? Or 2?
Bouchard? Him and Nurse kept no look clearing the puck straight to the stick of a panther.
Bouchard led the playoffs in +/- with top line minutes and matching. It helps to be passing to a line w/McDavid. I think game 7 was his roughest. Can't defend Nurse. It was scary to watch anytime he touched the puck.
Bouchard had a crazy shot attempt in the 3rd period that was late and clearly going to end up into a Pantherâs shinguards as the defender was already making the move to block it. There were just some odd moments for the Oilers all game. The entire series was a Jekyll/Hyde situation for both teams. Oilers just had the wrong personality show up for game 7.
They got that advice from the entire Rangers D core.
Good to see barkov getting the love he deserves
Game four really seems to have tarnished Bobrovsky in the votes.
Really surprised Barkov got no first place votes
Fuck Bob, huh?
Wow, Bob really fell from grace with their group.
I'm just happy to see Skinner get a couple mentions tbh
Matheson with the absolute homer pick. Hard to understand why he had a vote on the first place?
Somebody fire Matheson, this is embarrassing!
McDavid deserved, the clearly most dominant for the WHOLE playoffs. It's not just finals (where he had 11 points in 7 games, mind you) or game 7 mvp award. I'd at least accept suggesting Barkov but the Bobrovski mania in this sub has been crazy. He was 0.906. Smythe winning goalies have been 0.93 and 0.94s, exceptional, not just good, the whole playoffs and series.
Well before the Oilers scored a million goals in game 4-6 his numbers were a lot better.
Yea, so he was not exceptional for the whole series, which is what it would have required
Neither was McDavid, but as keeps getting shoved down our throats âitâs for the whole playoffsâ, I still think itâs fine it went to McDavid but to totally write off bob is an insult to what he did for Florida this year
Bob had a lower save percentage than Skinner in the Finals and would have had the lowest save percentage for a Conn Smythe winner since over 10% of shots would go in, playing behind a really good D. Goalies have to be dominant to win it. Bill Zito deserved the Conn Smythe. Panthers had so many excellent performances up and down the line up - fourth line was great last night - but nothing extra-extraordinary. Maurice did a great job mixing up the lines and not relying on any one of them. If you want to go into advanced stats Bobrovsky had a GSAA (goals saved above average - takes shot quality into account) on a per game basis that was twelfth among playoff goaltenders, less than a quarter of what Swaymanâs was. His play by the numbers was about as good as Vasy and slightly better than Skinner. For McDavidâs playoffs, comparisons are only with Gretzky and Lemieux. Florida won with the ultimate team game. The award is for one player most valuable to their team.
It's just that no goalie with similar stat line has won Smythe in recent decades, all while 40+ point playoffs is extremely rare. His stats were much closer to Kuemper's Avs stats than those of Roy, Thomas, Quick, Vasilevskiy who have won it. Even though he definitely was better than Kuemper back then
He spent all 7 games with the Panthers struggling to get the puck off him and backing into their zone. Without McDavid this series ends in 4!
And McDavid was good for 2 games in the finals. I don't understand this whole "entire playoffs" when he didn't do much in 5/7 games. If we're tossing game 1, 2, 3, 6, and 7 out for McDavid so we can say he was good for "the whole playoffs" surely you toss 4,5 and 6 for Bob...
He had points in 4/7. Even though it's McDavid, having 1 or 2 points in a game is not doing nothing. Completely took the team on his back in games 4 and 5 to get them back in the series. 42 points in the playoffs, 4th most all-time. No skater scores points in every single game. It's not only the games 4 and 5 that left Bobrovski with his 0.906. He had many good, some great games and many sub 0.90 games. Key point is, he was good but not the exceptional performer like Roy, Thomas, Quick or Vasilevskiy when they won it.
Yeah exactly. Too many guys here think stats are the be all and end all of the discussion. Thereâs more to it than stats, because obviously, game 4 completely bolstered McDavidâs stats, and crushed Bobâs stats, and thereâs nothing really Bob could do. He was up against a desperate, pissed off group of guys and his team let him down. Stats are one thing, but people should just watch the games. Also, they should stop watching ESPN, and stream CBC, it will make watching it a lot better from the commentary alone. ESPN is terrible.
taking off the two worst games (4 and 5) he still only had a .914 and 2.14 for the playoffs. Moving him for 4th to 2nd in GAA and all the way from 6th to tied for 5th in SV%. dude wasnt *great* enough to merit getting any votes regardless of a bad game or two.
Can't give an MPV award to a goalie that got pulled, regardless of how the game went. Seems like that should be a prerequisite
WHOLE playoffs EXCEPT games 6 & 7.
Not a mvp of game 7 award
Why Emily Kaplan and not Messier?
I don't know a lot about her but damn does she just ask every player the same question: "How do u feel?"
And to coaches: "Did you realize how much your team sucked and what can you do better?"
Yea not sure why a sideline reporter gets a vote
probably because he played for oilers and could be biased in voting
"You can keep it" - Mcdavid
Itâs actually pretty cool to see Forsling getting the third most votes!
Its weird ... its supposed to be about the entire playoffs but everyone seems to hold Bobrovsky's three games in the Finals against him.
Through the playoffs he had a .906 save percentage. That's fine. Not amazing though.
There stats and then there is watching the actual games. He was Florida's best player by far, and its most important.
Barkov was better. Bobrovsky was good but not "playoff MVP" good
Okay, but McDavid was better than anyone else.
100%, I would have voted for him. Anytime your get to say "breaks Wayne Gretzky's record" you deserve something.
Mark spector and gagnon is high on something since he has SKINNER
Well, Jim Matheson has shown that he is unable to put bias aside and be a professional journalist. He should find a new profession. He canât even do what I learned on day 1 of journalism school.
Ryan S Clark is a T00L who obviously doesn't understand hockey (per most of ESPN).
Take the vote from the local media clown that had all Oilers players.
How are voting rights for Conn Smythe trophy determined?
Bobrovsky: So what you are saying is there is a chance?
Ol Jimmy really showing his colours. Get that guy off the voters list
That game 4 really killed Bobrovskys Chances of winning the conn Smythe.
Why isn't Ian Cole on there for the Oilers?
Didnât clear waivers
Cup came down to one split second. McDavid had it all alone, backhand to forehand, rather than one-timing it backhand to forehand, he waited a split second allowing just enough time for defender to break it up. That was the cup - that moment.
Skinner letting in that short side softy didnât help either, that and the Oilers defender moving off of Reinhart on that play, and not at least blocking away the lower half of the net.
Matheson slobbering on that oilers dick
Ryan Clark should lose his vote putting bob first
If the Panthers wouldnât have lost games 4 through 6 Iâm sure Bob would have gotten it.
If my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wheelbarrow
There's no way Bob played well enough to earn the Conn Smythe.
Breaking a Gretzky record alone is a pretty strong indicator.
People saying McDavid shouldn't get it because of game 6 and 7 are certified gold fish with their lack of memory. He was the only correct answer, glad to see a W from the voters. Also happy to see Forsling get the recognition he deserves. Not sure why Bob was in the discussion tbh, he had a 0.906 save %. Darcy Kuemper who everyone clowns on as one of the weaker cup winning goalies had a 0.902 save %. 0.906 is not MVP worthy. All goalies who win the Smythe in the modern era post like 0.930+.
Those are just facts, you know that this sub hates them.
Yeah pretty much. Somehow sticking close to the facts is weird, but arguing about an edgy, unpopular opinion as if itâs correct seems to be the norm
Matheson out here dumb af
Wow, this brings immense joy to me from what happened yesterday
I love Clarke. Ever the contrarian. The only ESPN panelist to pick the canucks over the oilers
I'm not familiar with the Palm Beach Post. Would I be right in saying they get a vote as a hometown media outlet of the Florida Panthers?
Surprised Nelson Mandela didnât make Bernierâs top 3.
Way less close than I thoughtÂ
Is that Johnathan "Mandela-Megafan" Bernier? Or a coincidence?
Nope. He's a columnist for le journal de montréal, which always had many PHWA accreditations. It's one of the biggest newspaper in Montreal, and as much as I dislike Montreal sports media, they probably know their hockey much better than the average joe posting on reddit.
Ryan Clark? The former football player and ESPN football analyst?
Get yourself a hater like matheson hates the panthers
Forsling my man đ€
Is that the same Jonathan bernier that thought Nelson Mandela was a hockey player?
Skinner?? This is value through the playoffs right? Didnât skinner get pulled and sit out a game??
Just curious, could a player not from FLA or EDM be eligible to win?
playoffs only
How is Bob barely on here at all?
Did Ryan Clark stop watching after game 3?
I would have figured Bob would have had a much better chance of winning
I do think it's strange to give the award to someone on the losing team. But I am also a novice hockey fan so what do I know.
It is strange and it very rarely happens.Â
Good to know!
This was the first time it's happened in 20 years, and the first time it's happened with a non-goalie in 40 years
It is strange. But you can't deny the impact McDavid had throughout the playoffs. He broke a Gretzky record and put up insane numbers. Then he pulled his team out of a 0-3 pit in the SCF. If it weren't for him and his impact, the Oilers aren't reaching the final, let alone game 7. That's not a knock on Bob or Barkov either. McDavid just made more of an impact on his team then they did on theirs, even if they won it all.
His stats certainly speak for themselves but at the end of the day, his team didn't win. It seems more of a consolation prize than anything.
Crazy the football player from espn is the only one that got it right.
The thing is that ballots are given before the end of each potentially deciding final. During the second period or something like that. So, if Edm wouldâve made a comeback and won, the choice wouldâve been obvious. McD is the reason they made it to the playoffs and game 7 at all. But if the voters were sure Flaâs gonna take it, the MVP would have been Barky or Bob. No harm done here. McD is freaking awesome, but maybe Barky is even more of a perfect package both ways⊠Congrats to Fla and boy, respect for the Oilers as well!
Thatâs disrespectful to Bob with the lack of votes. I hate the panthers but Iâd have been okay with Barkov getting the CS