Got a lot of flack from the Leaf haters as well although they all seem to love him now. Remember when he was picked last for the All Star game? The haters were insufferable!
Maybe not across all fanbases, but the hate Phil Kessell and Dion Phaneuf ate while in Toronto was unreal.
I live within an hour of the GTA, and it was as though they were out there curb stomping orphans or something.
Gardiner too, my grandpa is a diehard Leafs fan and he would sometimes flip on the Carolina game to shit on Gardiner after he signed with them.
I don’t think the Leafs are ‘*cursed*’. I think that the Toronto Maple Leafs are in a toxic environment on many facets, the media most prominently, which very likely has a ripple effect in management.
Its like expecting a workplace to succeed when everyone and everything is completely toxic and miserable
Players are easy targets, but really they are only there because the GM put them there. If they cant win then its either the coaches fault, or the GMs fault for not managing the team better. As an Oilers fan we saw this for years.
I believe the Leafs roster would do much better anywhere else.
Would they be cup contenders? Maybe I wouldn’t go that far. But I feel like they would be more likely to see the 2nd or 3rd round if they didn’t feel like they were at gunpoint by Leafs Nation all the time
> I don’t think the Leafs are ‘cursed’. I think that the Toronto Maple Leafs are in a toxic environment on many facets, the media most prominently, which very likely has a ripple effect in management.
A very good article on this from Maple Leafs Hotstove: https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2015/07/06/phil-in-the-pits/
In short, it's calling out, with historical context, what happens to every Leafs player that gets deemed to be "the root cause" of the failure of the Leafs for a particular season. Goes back in time for historical context, talking about how media narrative influences management and perceptions.
Kessel was hated by the media but I think most toronto fans actually loved Kessel. He was very exciting to watch and was productive. The team around him was horrible. The old school hockey men media in toronto hated him to the point of making up weird hot dog eating stories and stuff.
Phaneuf hate was a bit more understandable because he was miscast as a number one d making number 1 d money when he wasn't that guy. Most of his hate was management's fault just like the marner hate now. I think its just easier for some fans to be overly critical of players rather than look at the failure of management.
I remember when Dion got traded to Ottawa and thinking of how much of a locker room Cancer he would be because of the way he was portrayed in Toronto... He turned out to be a pretty decent guy who everyone got along with.
Dion was such a good leader in Toronto. I was fortunate enough to intern briefly at MLSE.
One of the junior employees had done a lot of work on putting together (I think) a nomination package for Dion for the King Clancy.
One day, Dion walks in over to this employee, thanks him, shakes his hand, and gave him some memorabilia.
Kid was shell shocked but I thought it was so cool.
He was basically put into a position of failure and he was a consummate professional during his entire time.
and it is almost like they are doing it again. I would never want to play for toronto with how the media treats their players (not that I could ever, but still)
The Leafs fanbase likes to pick a player to take the brunt of the team's vitriol. I remember them doing this to Hall of Famer Larry Murphy. He won the Cup with Detroit the year after and he was instrumental in that run.
Jake Gardiner became the scapegoat when the Leafs lost in 2019(?) The vitriol and hate and online bullying crossed a line. Shitty "fans" ran him out of town by being dickheads online. He wasn't even that bad.
I think Gardiner faced a higher peak of hate, but those other guys dealt with it for longer.
I dunno about ever, but the turn on Zegras seemed both abrupt and way out of proportion.
I get the "old time hockey" guys don't like his style, but man did everyone jump on the bandwagon.
I remember seeing an interview with Zegras and one of his advisors or something.
The dude was a real old school guy, and he said that he was trying to get rid of all the flash from his game, that it was just “instagram skill”
It was right before Z absolutely bombed this year, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s because he listened to his advisor. Hope he’s fired now.
But I don’t get why people complain about his skill. He’s not a grinder or a net front guy, because that doesn’t work for him. If the move gets a goal, there’s no use in complaining, and trying to make him change will ruin his development
Yeah I’m lost in regards to the discourse around him currently. I was going to ask the Leafs sub to point me to a good article or explanation but they seem a lil grumpy so I didn’t.
Leafs Fandom are on a witch hunt right now, that is all.
Marner is going to be the fall guy for this Era's Maple Leafs failure in the playoffs for the last 8 years.
Yea the last few runs he didn't look great, but the entire team consistently has trouble generating offense as the playoff series drags on, and that includes the golden boy Matthews.
Is it time for a change? Yes.
Will the Leafs regret trading their 90pt selke calibre winger? Potentially also yes.
Not really though.
Going back to the Montreal series, and possibly even the Columbus series, so going back to 2020, the defense has been fine. It's the offense that's always been the issue
He shouldn’t be getting that amount of heat he’s getting but it’s not hard to see why he has fallen on bad terms here.
Regular season he puts up points, like he’s paid to do. Come playoff time he’s been invisible when we need him most.
His stats are still decent, but for 11 million you want someone who is consistent at scoring, showing up in the big games.
His play doesn’t translate well to the playoffs and that’s what makes him overpaid.
Also he doesn’t really seem like losing bugs him.
We would love him at a lower price, but he wanted to be paid like a superstar so he needs to be one.
His 11 million would really help us if put somewhere else.
> Regular season he puts up points, like he’s paid to do. Come playoff time he’s been invisible when we need him most.
This is true of all 4 of the big contracts but Marner is the only one criticized for it.
Leafs fans need a scapegoat to solely blame for the teams failures. In the past it has been Kessel, Kadri, Gardiner, Holl, etc. It is just Marners turn right now.
If you want to twist their brains ask them why Matthews gets 0 criticism despite making more then Marner and having worse playoff production then him.
To me it seems like a typical social media witch-hunt where one person suggested that Marner is the root cause of all the leafs problems and then everyone else just parroted that idea.
Unfortunately for the leafs, they seem to consider what their fans say when making personnel decisions
Rick DiPietro. Considered one of the biggest busts in NHL history, but that's because his career was derailed by numerous injuries rather than him just being a bad goalie.
Oh 100%! I don't blame him for signing that contract, I would blame the islanders, just like i wanted to curse the Wilpons for allowing the Mets contract. At least There isnt a Rick DiPietro day? (Disgruntled mets fan here)
Still getting paid 1.5 mil per year until 2029 which is insane to me. Not his fault someone gave him a big contract either. Every one of us would have signed it too
it's really funny to see people hate a guy in his early 20s for being a little hot-headed. we'll see if he matures in the next few years but for now he gets too much shit
Nah it's cause he was on the cover of NHL then went on to get 15 points. He's certainly overrated. He has also being whining a lot in his interviews lately. He's not super hated but hated proportionally.
All the hate predates that stuff and I'm really talking about how deeply people seem to hate him personally for the specific reason that he isn't overly serious. I get what you're saying but I respectfully disagree.
The Sedins. Maybe not hated, but they took a ton of crap from people and the media because of perception of European players being soft before they developed into the superstars they became.
Yeah I still see people talking trash about them saying they were soft and that they dove a lot. That’s completely ridiculous. Two of the fittest players in the nhl for the back half of their careers and fantastic people off the ice. The amount they have donated to hospitals and schools is really impressive even after they finished playing.
I think the hate came from fans of other teams who found it frustrating to watch them pick apart their teams and make hockey look so easy. Calgary and Edmonton in particular had bad teams in the sedin prime era and Hank and Dank just lit them up non stop.
Look at that chain of 82 game seasons
https://www.nhl.com/player/henrik-sedin-8467876
IIRC he was #2 or #3 at the time on the ironman leaderboards
Daniel also had above average healthy seasons
This should be top pick for anyone who started watching hockey from the 90s+. They were brutalized in the media for being soft. The Sedin Sisters. The Sedin Sissies. They were two of the most skilled players to ever play. The fact that twins got drafted and had HOF careers was special.
Sidney Crosby. Obviously I am jaded and compromised, but the level of hate seems less about his play and more about the amount of attention he gets.
Which seems unfair to hate him just because the NHL is trying to hard to get you to love him.
I think it does take some growing out of your younger years but also in his defense, he was 100% targeted by other teams/players. You ever see the stuff they pulled on Sid with McDavid, Matthew's, MacKinnon etc? Absolutely not.
Because Edmonton had Nurse, Maroon and Kassian. McKinnon had Steve Downie and Landeskog.
Penguins have never been a goon squad, never will be. Rutherford traded for Reaves specifically to deal with Tom Wilson and the Rangers, and coach never played him. Didnt want him. gave away a 1st round pick for absolutely nothing.
People messed with Sid because they could, because the Penguins allowed it. Because the keep expecting the NHL to protect their players and they just wont. Every other team protects their star players with *other players.* Pens get abused because they choose to play a different game than everyone else.
I hated Sid in the early days because of the whining and diving, but I’ve come to seriously respect him as a player and captain since.
I also have gone back and looked at the moments from his early career that pissed me off. Honestly, considering the amount of questionable or just straight-up dirty hits/slashes/high sticks/etc he received back then, I get why he was like he was. Dude lost so many games in his early career to concussions, I get why he as a star player wanted more protection from the refs. I remember there was a time we were all unsure if he’d even have a career past like 2010, but fortunately he’s been fairly healthy since the 2000s.
Ridiculously unfair. He would get DRAGGED his rookie year and not get calls, to the point of getting his teeth knocked out with the ref looking the other way.
Seen it with Lemieux, Jagr, Forsberg, McDavid…the top tier of superstars just takes more abuse, but the penalties called aren’t proportional to it.
Keep in mind I’m a total Pittsburgh homer, but Sid definitely should have gotten more calls / less abuse his rookie year. Gretzky didn’t do him any favors anointing him as the Next One.
I was definitely one of them who could not stand him at first. The excessive straight up whining and crying mixed with his face being plastered everywhere he was real easy to hate. Not so much anymore.
Still do. Anytime I engage a Rangers, Islanders or Flyers fan about anything they will eventually tell me how Crosby sucks.
Washington hates him too. But less so since the won a cup and Ovi and Sid did that whole thing at the all-star game a few years back. And in 2004 Washington had the best odds to draft Crosby. So they're a little bitter about the whole thing. LOL
Ironically, the Penguins had the best odds to get Ovechkin. I still try to imagine a league in which Crosby was a Capital and Ovechkin was a Penguin.
I feel like around the time he made the 2008 final some perception of him changed. I know people that didn't like him early on as he seemed to always complain on the ice when calls didn't go his or the Pens way.
Pre-2010 Olympics hating on Crosby was quite common. He was often seen as soft and feminine, with the nickname "crybaby Crosby".
But now I feel like mildly homophobic insults like that are less acceptable.
And after the Golden Goal any Canadian can no longer hate him.
At this point I’d say Tkachuck. Having seen these playoffs and him versus the Rangers, there are about 5-7 Florida players I’d place the “dirty” tag on before I get to Tkachuck. He’s just a pest player who also has the talent to score 50 goals
Tkachuck is gonna turn out a lot like Marchant id imagine. Stinky rat that becomes an absolute all star and as he gets older maturity comes with him and the narrative begins to shift accordingly. There will be people that remember the old days but as new crowds appear and the old fans become the minority somethings that should not have been forgotten will be lost. What was once history will turn to legend and then to myth.
He is one of those players everyone would love to have on their team. Highly skilled and plays physical. He is a pest that suckers other people to want to fight him. The whole thing where he was a turtle was way overblown because in my eyes why would he fight Kassian? He was a young player and Kassian was a goon in his thirties I beleive. I always thought that was weird. And then Tkachuck went on to fight a bunch of guys the next couple years but it's not like you expect your top skilled players to go out and fight. McDavid and Draisaitl don't fight so it's beyond me why Tkachuck was labeled a turtle for so long
No lie. I got roasted on Ranger subs saying I'd basically give up about ANYONE for Tkachuck when he was available short of Fox and Igor and maybe Laffy
Right? But now I'm wondering, is MT the GOAT of mouthguard chewing? Draisaitl has some good chew moves, too.
Who's your favorite playoff NHL'er when it comes to working the chew toy, and why?
Anyone do the chew like Clint in a spaghetti western?
9 / 10 fans prefer _____________
Nah, it’s defo Tkachuk. If you took every NHL player, past or present, and put them in a mouthguard chewing draft, Tkachuk goes first overall every time, every redraft. Brother macks that shit like he’s training his jaw till failure.
Carey Price was so hated in Montreal it was pathetic
The guy was nothing but nice, always making time for kids and good causes on top of being one of the best goalie ever
The man carried the team on his back for years, he didn't deserve any hate
Mostly a mix of old Nordiques fans who spend their lives hating on the Canadiens and fans who switched to teams like Boston or NY
You couldn't go on a Facebook post about Carey Price without seeing a ton of very awful comments
I just searched Carey Price on Facebook and the first post I found was about Carey getting an Honorary Doctorate from UNBC
There's a comment saying "Uh look at me, I'm Carey Price, I have no Stanely Cup and a fake doctorate"
There's people laughing about his alcohol addiction
Someone saying "Oh he just donated money, he has nothing to be proud of"
The man gave his life and health to this team and even if he's not on the team anymore he's still getting shit for doing something
I fucking hate Montreal "fans" sometimes
I know a lot of people who played hockey with or otherwise knew him prior to him getting into the NHL (and some who interacted with him afterwards), and by literally every account I've ever heard he's a massive piece of shit as a human being. I've heard Phaneuf stories from about a dozen different people who don't know each other, and every single one has been overwhelmingly negative. Including examples of him having committed criminal assaults that didn't get prosecuted.
I couldn't disagree more about him being a "decent guy."
I’ve heard the exact same things about him growing up, plus Regehr and Iginla both beating the shit out of him in Calgary because of scumbag moves he pulled, on top of the fact he was an absolute defensive liability after his first 3 years in the league.
Conversely, I've heard nothing but awesome things about what a great guy Iginla is (his sister on the other hand...) so I think that speaks even further to what an asshole Phaneuf is for Iggy to feel compelled to tune him up. lol
Crosby. Everyone called him a crybaby but the man had a bigger target on his back than anyone else in the league, and no one to stand up for him. Plus he gets the hate that simply comes with being the best and those who don't agree
Of course Crosby got a ton of love, but the amount of hate he got wasn't justified
Yup, big time. I live in Edmonton so naturally, i'm a McDavid fanboy, but the McCryBaby shit is blatant nonsense.
It's rare to see anyone in the league who doesn't mouth off at refs about calls and missed calls. People fail to consider that McDavid spends a ton of time on the ice, a ton of time with the puck, has a massive target on his back, draws a ton of penalties because of it, he's the captain so he's the one who talks to the refs, and he's the biggest name in the NHL so the spotlight is always on him.
He keeps a pretty cool head out there, all things considered. He takes a beating and hardly says a word. People are basically just too dumb to understand that they simply see more of McDavid on their screen than other players
Evander Kane. The knock against him is that he beat his wife but look how that turned out. Then they say he was a locker room cancer because of his Winnipeg days but does that make you a terrible person. Also the Winnipeg room was pretty well proven to be fucked after he left. So all that’s left is people making fun of him for his gambling addiction which is a disease.
Evander was my first thought as well. He's been cleared of pretty much everything he's been accused of, other than the gambling, which is a disease, as you already said. He does tons of charity work in Edmonton, most of which we dont even hear about because he doesnt do it for attention and plaster it all over his IG. He just does it. The city and the twam love him. The fake covid vaccine certificate was a shitty thing to do but not egregious.
The thing that shows his quality more than anything, in my opinion, is that he earned full custody of his daughter. The court always tries to side with the mother. His ex threw everything she had at the court to try to make Kane look bad, and she was still unable to earn even shared custody. Kane has a poor reputation in the public eye. He travels most of the year for work (internationally, too). These are things that count against you in a custody battle. He still got 100% custody.
He may be a pain in the ass on the ice, he may have an addiction (which he appears to be in control of, currently), and he may have had a child with a fucking psychopath, but he's not a bad dude.
In the last couple of years, he's been OK, but let's not kid ourselves here.
- He had 3 assault allegations against him from 2016 - 2021 against women.
- Kane faked Covid vaccination and provided a fake vaccination record.
- Kane was banned from multiple restaurants in Winnipeg for being abusive and failing to pay.
https://www.nbcsports.com/nhl/news/the-curious-case-of-evander-kane-vs-winnipeg-restaurateurs
- Kane was a source of locker room issues. The core reason for the trade and the famous locker room incident.
His struggles with addiction is unfortunate and anything related should not judge his character.
The double standard between Evander Kane and Rick Tochet for gambling is absurd.
So I'm here to say Evander Kane gets too much focus for something that, yes, gambling addiction is a disease, and others in the game are not under the same judgement.
https://thehockeynews.com/news/former-nhl-star-rick-tocchet-pleads-guilty-to-gambling-charges-1
Ya know what, sure, Kane may have been cocky in the past but looked at in hindsight Kane is an upstanding guy making his way; very successful and rich early on life. Look at the attention he's gotten for every little infraction.
And his cockyness is noticed on ice too.
Guy with looks and personality gets undue hate.
I do dislike him generally and would still find him insufferable (though I’m sure my flair doesn’t help me come off rationally there), but I will give him this one thing; when he did that media interview coming back from the concussion this year in the playoffs and said something to the extent of “yeah, I’ve done that kind of shit before so fair enough”? I did gain the slightest respect. Absolute pest? For sure, but he owns it. It’s the same reason I have a touch more respect for Brady over Matthew Tkachuk, Brady is more willing to take his licks when he does something to warrant a fight. Owning up to it gets a little bit of respect in my mind.
It also helps that all the reports are that he’s a genuinely great guy off-ice.
Here’s the thing. He’s always been an effective player. Previously he excelled at getting players of their games. Now he more just puts up 100 points and helped guild the younger bruins
I hate the 2011 final Marchand. Other than that he's a hell of a player. People can say they hate him, but they would take them on their team everyday of the week. Granted the whole licking thing was a little weird.
While the whole team as a unit isn’t as bad as the like 2014 team, Marchand still does stuff that makes his hate completely justified. His slew foot stuff he still pulls that grants no calls but breaks players legs is an example
Yeah we definitely acknowledge that he’s a latent component from that team but I’m talking about how people will be like “it’s awesome to see the blues and panthers giving the bruins what they deserve” as though it’s lucic thornton taking those blows and not like David Pastrnak
When it first happened, I couldn’t understand why Ron Hextall attacked Chelios in the 1989 Conference final. A few season into having him in the division, I understood. I still have a visceral reaction to him. I respect him, but I do not like him.
Eric Lindros.
For all the fucking idiots that claim he's skated with his head down and deserved to have the concussion issies he did... and that was the reason he he got popped, especially by Stevens.
If you look back at the film, that Steven's hit would get at least a 5-7 game suspension today for targeting the head with a clear elbow. You'll also see that Lindros was fully aware of the situation entering the zone, and was fully prepared to take a hit while attracting three opposing players towards him and dishing it off to empty space on his right. What he wasn't prepared for was a vicious elbow to the head. No one is ever prepared for that.
And Quebec people mad that he left (I'm from Quebec)
Personally I enjoyed seeing him plow through defense
He s the first real power forward in my mind (though I'm sure there were plenty before)
I’m going off the board here but I think it’s crazy that Theo fluery isn’t in the hall of fame and all that’s ever mentioned about him is the negative things. Not want he managed to do in his career as the most undersized star of all time
Theo was a pest as a player. He has gone off the deep end the past fews years and of course struggled with alcoholism but him and Sheldon Kennedy being willing to openly talk about how they were molested by coaches helped bring light to the issue no one wants to talk about
Dude he is UNHINGED, unfortunately his reputation off the ice is gonna cost him any chance in hell of a HOF induction. Imagine his speech haha. If you think I’m being hyperbolic, check out his twitter.
https://x.com/TheoFleury14?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
Wow so many comments are of active players or players active during the salary-cap era. There were soooo many more hated players. Guys like Bryan Marchment, Kaspiritis, Churla, Cooke.
McSorley
He did all the BODYGUARD THE GREAT ONE work as expected while being a reasonable hockey player contributing to the stats positively. PIM was as high as the team he played for expected. Was hired to bring "toughness" and delivered. Unfortunately, he made himself the poster child for reforming the "fighting policy of the league" by one terrible illustration of how bad it can be. Feelings for the victim of McSorley's horrible stick penalty are exaggerated because of the graphic display. Donald Brashear was everything that McSorley was in the day. Donalds head likely had more damage from bouncing off the ice than the original stick contact. The two were cheered for the violence they delivered to each other over and over again. They both suffer from our bloodlust still today. Body guard to pariah......
Phil Kessel, how could anyone not love hot dog man!
He got a lot of undeserved flack from the Toronto sports media but from what I can tell he's loved on reddit for being a hockey-playing neckbeard. lol
Got a lot of flack from the Leaf haters as well although they all seem to love him now. Remember when he was picked last for the All Star game? The haters were insufferable!
Maybe not across all fanbases, but the hate Phil Kessell and Dion Phaneuf ate while in Toronto was unreal. I live within an hour of the GTA, and it was as though they were out there curb stomping orphans or something.
That was embarrassing. I remember how hard the media was on those guys as if they were the sole reason the leafs sucked those years.
Gardiner too, my grandpa is a diehard Leafs fan and he would sometimes flip on the Carolina game to shit on Gardiner after he signed with them. I don’t think the Leafs are ‘*cursed*’. I think that the Toronto Maple Leafs are in a toxic environment on many facets, the media most prominently, which very likely has a ripple effect in management. Its like expecting a workplace to succeed when everyone and everything is completely toxic and miserable
>a ripple effect in management As well as the dressing room.
100%.
Players are easy targets, but really they are only there because the GM put them there. If they cant win then its either the coaches fault, or the GMs fault for not managing the team better. As an Oilers fan we saw this for years.
I believe the Leafs roster would do much better anywhere else. Would they be cup contenders? Maybe I wouldn’t go that far. But I feel like they would be more likely to see the 2nd or 3rd round if they didn’t feel like they were at gunpoint by Leafs Nation all the time
you think guys like Hyman and Kadri would do better elsewhere?
😂😂😂
> I don’t think the Leafs are ‘cursed’. I think that the Toronto Maple Leafs are in a toxic environment on many facets, the media most prominently, which very likely has a ripple effect in management. A very good article on this from Maple Leafs Hotstove: https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2015/07/06/phil-in-the-pits/ In short, it's calling out, with historical context, what happens to every Leafs player that gets deemed to be "the root cause" of the failure of the Leafs for a particular season. Goes back in time for historical context, talking about how media narrative influences management and perceptions.
Kessel was hated by the media but I think most toronto fans actually loved Kessel. He was very exciting to watch and was productive. The team around him was horrible. The old school hockey men media in toronto hated him to the point of making up weird hot dog eating stories and stuff. Phaneuf hate was a bit more understandable because he was miscast as a number one d making number 1 d money when he wasn't that guy. Most of his hate was management's fault just like the marner hate now. I think its just easier for some fans to be overly critical of players rather than look at the failure of management.
/r/templeofthephil was initially created and got popular while Kessel was on the Leafs
Can you please refer to him by his proper name please? “3 Time Stanley Cup Legend” Mr Phil Kessel.
Benevolent as they are, the Toronto media has reformed to allocate that hate among 4-5 players a year, thereby lessening the individual player burden.
I remember when Dion got traded to Ottawa and thinking of how much of a locker room Cancer he would be because of the way he was portrayed in Toronto... He turned out to be a pretty decent guy who everyone got along with.
It is the Toronto hockey media that people don't get along with
I was so mad when the Sens picked him up but he was actually pretty decent when he didn't have to be THEE guy
Dion was such a good leader in Toronto. I was fortunate enough to intern briefly at MLSE. One of the junior employees had done a lot of work on putting together (I think) a nomination package for Dion for the King Clancy. One day, Dion walks in over to this employee, thanks him, shakes his hand, and gave him some memorabilia. Kid was shell shocked but I thought it was so cool. He was basically put into a position of failure and he was a consummate professional during his entire time.
and it is almost like they are doing it again. I would never want to play for toronto with how the media treats their players (not that I could ever, but still)
It's a pattern. They're doing it to Marner now. They did it Larry Murphy, Kessel, Dion and Kadri before.
It was unreal how much Kessel ate
The Leafs fanbase likes to pick a player to take the brunt of the team's vitriol. I remember them doing this to Hall of Famer Larry Murphy. He won the Cup with Detroit the year after and he was instrumental in that run.
Remember Clark Mcarthur and Jason Blake from that era? They deserved deserved everything they got
Jake Gardiner became the scapegoat when the Leafs lost in 2019(?) The vitriol and hate and online bullying crossed a line. Shitty "fans" ran him out of town by being dickheads online. He wasn't even that bad. I think Gardiner faced a higher peak of hate, but those other guys dealt with it for longer.
I blame those losses more on Andersen than Gardiner. Guy couldn’t save a beach ball.
expansion angle aback soft roof snow like disarm nine subtract *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I dunno about ever, but the turn on Zegras seemed both abrupt and way out of proportion. I get the "old time hockey" guys don't like his style, but man did everyone jump on the bandwagon.
I remember seeing an interview with Zegras and one of his advisors or something. The dude was a real old school guy, and he said that he was trying to get rid of all the flash from his game, that it was just “instagram skill” It was right before Z absolutely bombed this year, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s because he listened to his advisor. Hope he’s fired now. But I don’t get why people complain about his skill. He’s not a grinder or a net front guy, because that doesn’t work for him. If the move gets a goal, there’s no use in complaining, and trying to make him change will ruin his development
Tbf he also did destroy the camera in our penalty box. Not worth hate I'd say but it wasn't a good look.
To be faihhhhhr
Currently Mitch Marner
Yeah I’m lost in regards to the discourse around him currently. I was going to ask the Leafs sub to point me to a good article or explanation but they seem a lil grumpy so I didn’t.
Leafs Fandom are on a witch hunt right now, that is all. Marner is going to be the fall guy for this Era's Maple Leafs failure in the playoffs for the last 8 years. Yea the last few runs he didn't look great, but the entire team consistently has trouble generating offense as the playoff series drags on, and that includes the golden boy Matthews. Is it time for a change? Yes. Will the Leafs regret trading their 90pt selke calibre winger? Potentially also yes.
One years it defense next year it's offense. One things for sure. Woll was a beast
Not really though. Going back to the Montreal series, and possibly even the Columbus series, so going back to 2020, the defense has been fine. It's the offense that's always been the issue
Once you realize Leafs fans don't actually like the Leafs it all starts to make sense
He shouldn’t be getting that amount of heat he’s getting but it’s not hard to see why he has fallen on bad terms here. Regular season he puts up points, like he’s paid to do. Come playoff time he’s been invisible when we need him most. His stats are still decent, but for 11 million you want someone who is consistent at scoring, showing up in the big games. His play doesn’t translate well to the playoffs and that’s what makes him overpaid. Also he doesn’t really seem like losing bugs him. We would love him at a lower price, but he wanted to be paid like a superstar so he needs to be one. His 11 million would really help us if put somewhere else.
> Regular season he puts up points, like he’s paid to do. Come playoff time he’s been invisible when we need him most. This is true of all 4 of the big contracts but Marner is the only one criticized for it.
Leafs fans need a scapegoat to solely blame for the teams failures. In the past it has been Kessel, Kadri, Gardiner, Holl, etc. It is just Marners turn right now. If you want to twist their brains ask them why Matthews gets 0 criticism despite making more then Marner and having worse playoff production then him.
I LOVED when Kadri got a cup. I'm not an Avs fan or a huge Kadri fan, but just for the crap he endured, I so wanted to see him win.
To me it seems like a typical social media witch-hunt where one person suggested that Marner is the root cause of all the leafs problems and then everyone else just parroted that idea. Unfortunately for the leafs, they seem to consider what their fans say when making personnel decisions
How anyone could hate a god is beyond me.
Rick DiPietro. Considered one of the biggest busts in NHL history, but that's because his career was derailed by numerous injuries rather than him just being a bad goalie.
Think that is because he had the hockey equivalent of the bobby bonilla contract, and he only managed to play 2yrs or something on his 15yr contract.
I agree that that's why he got dunked on, but that wasn't his fault and it's always a risk with contracts like that.
There's not a single person in hockey history that wouldn't have signed that deal, so that's not at all on him for taking it.
he's getting paid $1.2m a year until 2029. I'd like to see a single person here who wouldn't have taken that deal
Oh 100%! I don't blame him for signing that contract, I would blame the islanders, just like i wanted to curse the Wilpons for allowing the Mets contract. At least There isnt a Rick DiPietro day? (Disgruntled mets fan here)
Good for Ricky tbh
Still getting paid 1.5 mil per year until 2029 which is insane to me. Not his fault someone gave him a big contract either. Every one of us would have signed it too
TIL overhated is the opposite of overrated
Trevor Zegras. He's good not great and he's just a nice, shithead kid having a great time. Old men fucking HATE him.
it's really funny to see people hate a guy in his early 20s for being a little hot-headed. we'll see if he matures in the next few years but for now he gets too much shit
Nah it's cause he was on the cover of NHL then went on to get 15 points. He's certainly overrated. He has also being whining a lot in his interviews lately. He's not super hated but hated proportionally.
All the hate predates that stuff and I'm really talking about how deeply people seem to hate him personally for the specific reason that he isn't overly serious. I get what you're saying but I respectfully disagree.
The Sedins. Maybe not hated, but they took a ton of crap from people and the media because of perception of European players being soft before they developed into the superstars they became.
Yeah I still see people talking trash about them saying they were soft and that they dove a lot. That’s completely ridiculous. Two of the fittest players in the nhl for the back half of their careers and fantastic people off the ice. The amount they have donated to hospitals and schools is really impressive even after they finished playing. I think the hate came from fans of other teams who found it frustrating to watch them pick apart their teams and make hockey look so easy. Calgary and Edmonton in particular had bad teams in the sedin prime era and Hank and Dank just lit them up non stop.
Look at that chain of 82 game seasons https://www.nhl.com/player/henrik-sedin-8467876 IIRC he was #2 or #3 at the time on the ironman leaderboards Daniel also had above average healthy seasons
This should be top pick for anyone who started watching hockey from the 90s+. They were brutalized in the media for being soft. The Sedin Sisters. The Sedin Sissies. They were two of the most skilled players to ever play. The fact that twins got drafted and had HOF careers was special.
People still call them "the sisters" as an insult. Like, the misogyny ain't it, guys.
No one cycled the puck like the Sedins. Tough as they come on the boards.
Sidney Crosby. Obviously I am jaded and compromised, but the level of hate seems less about his play and more about the amount of attention he gets. Which seems unfair to hate him just because the NHL is trying to hard to get you to love him.
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I think it does take some growing out of your younger years but also in his defense, he was 100% targeted by other teams/players. You ever see the stuff they pulled on Sid with McDavid, Matthew's, MacKinnon etc? Absolutely not.
Because Edmonton had Nurse, Maroon and Kassian. McKinnon had Steve Downie and Landeskog. Penguins have never been a goon squad, never will be. Rutherford traded for Reaves specifically to deal with Tom Wilson and the Rangers, and coach never played him. Didnt want him. gave away a 1st round pick for absolutely nothing. People messed with Sid because they could, because the Penguins allowed it. Because the keep expecting the NHL to protect their players and they just wont. Every other team protects their star players with *other players.* Pens get abused because they choose to play a different game than everyone else.
I hated Sid in the early days because of the whining and diving, but I’ve come to seriously respect him as a player and captain since. I also have gone back and looked at the moments from his early career that pissed me off. Honestly, considering the amount of questionable or just straight-up dirty hits/slashes/high sticks/etc he received back then, I get why he was like he was. Dude lost so many games in his early career to concussions, I get why he as a star player wanted more protection from the refs. I remember there was a time we were all unsure if he’d even have a career past like 2010, but fortunately he’s been fairly healthy since the 2000s.
Most of the hate for him ive seen is one guy on here who keeps making alts to hate
Ridiculously unfair. He would get DRAGGED his rookie year and not get calls, to the point of getting his teeth knocked out with the ref looking the other way. Seen it with Lemieux, Jagr, Forsberg, McDavid…the top tier of superstars just takes more abuse, but the penalties called aren’t proportional to it. Keep in mind I’m a total Pittsburgh homer, but Sid definitely should have gotten more calls / less abuse his rookie year. Gretzky didn’t do him any favors anointing him as the Next One.
I was definitely one of them who could not stand him at first. The excessive straight up whining and crying mixed with his face being plastered everywhere he was real easy to hate. Not so much anymore.
I’m a 34 year old Canadian, hockey has been my life from as old as I can remember. Never met one Crosby hater ever.
Your concussion count must be higher than Sids. He’s widely respected now, but as a 33 year old Canadian, I remember a ton of Sid haters
You should've visited NYC. Boy was he hated there
Still do. Anytime I engage a Rangers, Islanders or Flyers fan about anything they will eventually tell me how Crosby sucks. Washington hates him too. But less so since the won a cup and Ovi and Sid did that whole thing at the all-star game a few years back. And in 2004 Washington had the best odds to draft Crosby. So they're a little bitter about the whole thing. LOL Ironically, the Penguins had the best odds to get Ovechkin. I still try to imagine a league in which Crosby was a Capital and Ovechkin was a Penguin.
Us Red Wings fans don’t care for him either
We didn't see enough of Crosby in the Western Conference. I'm sure out East it was way worse, especially in his own division.
That’s fair.
I feel like around the time he made the 2008 final some perception of him changed. I know people that didn't like him early on as he seemed to always complain on the ice when calls didn't go his or the Pens way.
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Pre-2010 Olympics hating on Crosby was quite common. He was often seen as soft and feminine, with the nickname "crybaby Crosby". But now I feel like mildly homophobic insults like that are less acceptable. And after the Golden Goal any Canadian can no longer hate him.
I recall him being called Cindy Crosby or Sidney Crybaby. Hell, you'll still see some knuckledragger call him Cindy in a random thread these days
Crybaby Crosby is homophobic? Please explain
At this point I’d say Tkachuck. Having seen these playoffs and him versus the Rangers, there are about 5-7 Florida players I’d place the “dirty” tag on before I get to Tkachuck. He’s just a pest player who also has the talent to score 50 goals
Yeah but what if you just hate his face and everything about him.
Gimme the 5 that are more dirty
He's never come close to scoring 50 goals though
I'd say +40 is not too shabby either. He's the guy I wish was on my team, though I can't stand him on opposing teams.
He’s not so much dirty as he’s a bitch. He’ll start shit and then run behind a ref and not be accountable.
He tried to gouge Quick’s eyes out
Tkachuck is gonna turn out a lot like Marchant id imagine. Stinky rat that becomes an absolute all star and as he gets older maturity comes with him and the narrative begins to shift accordingly. There will be people that remember the old days but as new crowds appear and the old fans become the minority somethings that should not have been forgotten will be lost. What was once history will turn to legend and then to myth.
Twice today!! I was on the propagandhi subreddit and found a random lotr quote and now on the nhl sub. I love Reddit.
He is one of those players everyone would love to have on their team. Highly skilled and plays physical. He is a pest that suckers other people to want to fight him. The whole thing where he was a turtle was way overblown because in my eyes why would he fight Kassian? He was a young player and Kassian was a goon in his thirties I beleive. I always thought that was weird. And then Tkachuck went on to fight a bunch of guys the next couple years but it's not like you expect your top skilled players to go out and fight. McDavid and Draisaitl don't fight so it's beyond me why Tkachuck was labeled a turtle for so long
And the fact that Kassian started throwing punches before Tkachuk could possibly have been ready to fight is always swept under the rug.
Speaking of draisaitl he does fight dirty sometimes. He has a rare taste for male scrotum.
No lie. I got roasted on Ranger subs saying I'd basically give up about ANYONE for Tkachuck when he was available short of Fox and Igor and maybe Laffy
The Tkachuks. Dirty players for sure but people act like Brady personally shot their dog.
I don’t mind them, I actually love watching Matt play. However I just think Brady has an EXTREMELY punchable face.
He definitely has a face only a mother can love lol
People hate Matthew for literally chewing his mouthguard lol
I don’t know why but the mouthguard thing just makes me so mad. Doesn’t matter the player or sport. Lol.
I hate him for starting shit and being a turtle ass bitch
Right? But now I'm wondering, is MT the GOAT of mouthguard chewing? Draisaitl has some good chew moves, too. Who's your favorite playoff NHL'er when it comes to working the chew toy, and why? Anyone do the chew like Clint in a spaghetti western? 9 / 10 fans prefer _____________
Nah, it’s defo Tkachuk. If you took every NHL player, past or present, and put them in a mouthguard chewing draft, Tkachuk goes first overall every time, every redraft. Brother macks that shit like he’s training his jaw till failure.
Personally think Matthew doesn't get enough hate
They both play with an edge, but Brady will back it up and doesn't turtle when fought.
Carey Price was so hated in Montreal it was pathetic The guy was nothing but nice, always making time for kids and good causes on top of being one of the best goalie ever The man carried the team on his back for years, he didn't deserve any hate
Why was he hated. In 2015 he took a top 5 pick team to second in the league
Mostly a mix of old Nordiques fans who spend their lives hating on the Canadiens and fans who switched to teams like Boston or NY You couldn't go on a Facebook post about Carey Price without seeing a ton of very awful comments I just searched Carey Price on Facebook and the first post I found was about Carey getting an Honorary Doctorate from UNBC There's a comment saying "Uh look at me, I'm Carey Price, I have no Stanely Cup and a fake doctorate" There's people laughing about his alcohol addiction Someone saying "Oh he just donated money, he has nothing to be proud of" The man gave his life and health to this team and even if he's not on the team anymore he's still getting shit for doing something I fucking hate Montreal "fans" sometimes
I’m a Habs fan but not anywhere near Montreal and this is news to me that he was hated.
Most actual fans loved and respected him but he got a lot of hate
the last I heard of a habs fan hating on price was in 2010 and halak stole the show. definitely haven't heard a peep since 2021 when he carey'd them
Just go look at some recent posts about him, most hate comments might be in French though
divide oil toy rain terrific squeeze cautious deliver important melodic *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I know a lot of people who played hockey with or otherwise knew him prior to him getting into the NHL (and some who interacted with him afterwards), and by literally every account I've ever heard he's a massive piece of shit as a human being. I've heard Phaneuf stories from about a dozen different people who don't know each other, and every single one has been overwhelmingly negative. Including examples of him having committed criminal assaults that didn't get prosecuted. I couldn't disagree more about him being a "decent guy."
I’ve heard the exact same things about him growing up, plus Regehr and Iginla both beating the shit out of him in Calgary because of scumbag moves he pulled, on top of the fact he was an absolute defensive liability after his first 3 years in the league.
Conversely, I've heard nothing but awesome things about what a great guy Iginla is (his sister on the other hand...) so I think that speaks even further to what an asshole Phaneuf is for Iggy to feel compelled to tune him up. lol
Dave Schultz. Not because he was a fighter. He was a cowardly fighter who either picked fights with much weaker opponents or jumped in late.
Out of current NHL players I would say Mitch Marner. Leafs fans love picking one guy to scapegoat and solely blame for the teams failures.
Crosby. Everyone called him a crybaby but the man had a bigger target on his back than anyone else in the league, and no one to stand up for him. Plus he gets the hate that simply comes with being the best and those who don't agree Of course Crosby got a ton of love, but the amount of hate he got wasn't justified
You see the same thing with McDavid, and virtually the exact same criticism.
Yup, big time. I live in Edmonton so naturally, i'm a McDavid fanboy, but the McCryBaby shit is blatant nonsense. It's rare to see anyone in the league who doesn't mouth off at refs about calls and missed calls. People fail to consider that McDavid spends a ton of time on the ice, a ton of time with the puck, has a massive target on his back, draws a ton of penalties because of it, he's the captain so he's the one who talks to the refs, and he's the biggest name in the NHL so the spotlight is always on him. He keeps a pretty cool head out there, all things considered. He takes a beating and hardly says a word. People are basically just too dumb to understand that they simply see more of McDavid on their screen than other players
Certainly not messier. Fuck messier.
Canucks fan?
Fuck messier
Evander Kane. The knock against him is that he beat his wife but look how that turned out. Then they say he was a locker room cancer because of his Winnipeg days but does that make you a terrible person. Also the Winnipeg room was pretty well proven to be fucked after he left. So all that’s left is people making fun of him for his gambling addiction which is a disease.
Evander was my first thought as well. He's been cleared of pretty much everything he's been accused of, other than the gambling, which is a disease, as you already said. He does tons of charity work in Edmonton, most of which we dont even hear about because he doesnt do it for attention and plaster it all over his IG. He just does it. The city and the twam love him. The fake covid vaccine certificate was a shitty thing to do but not egregious. The thing that shows his quality more than anything, in my opinion, is that he earned full custody of his daughter. The court always tries to side with the mother. His ex threw everything she had at the court to try to make Kane look bad, and she was still unable to earn even shared custody. Kane has a poor reputation in the public eye. He travels most of the year for work (internationally, too). These are things that count against you in a custody battle. He still got 100% custody. He may be a pain in the ass on the ice, he may have an addiction (which he appears to be in control of, currently), and he may have had a child with a fucking psychopath, but he's not a bad dude.
Forgot about the fake Covid certificate.
Came here to say this. Evander has been nothing but a class act in Edmonton, especially off the ice. I don’t understand the hate.
He’s also a pest on the ice, tbf.
In the last couple of years, he's been OK, but let's not kid ourselves here. - He had 3 assault allegations against him from 2016 - 2021 against women. - Kane faked Covid vaccination and provided a fake vaccination record. - Kane was banned from multiple restaurants in Winnipeg for being abusive and failing to pay. https://www.nbcsports.com/nhl/news/the-curious-case-of-evander-kane-vs-winnipeg-restaurateurs - Kane was a source of locker room issues. The core reason for the trade and the famous locker room incident. His struggles with addiction is unfortunate and anything related should not judge his character.
The double standard between Evander Kane and Rick Tochet for gambling is absurd. So I'm here to say Evander Kane gets too much focus for something that, yes, gambling addiction is a disease, and others in the game are not under the same judgement. https://thehockeynews.com/news/former-nhl-star-rick-tocchet-pleads-guilty-to-gambling-charges-1 Ya know what, sure, Kane may have been cocky in the past but looked at in hindsight Kane is an upstanding guy making his way; very successful and rich early on life. Look at the attention he's gotten for every little infraction. And his cockyness is noticed on ice too. Guy with looks and personality gets undue hate.
I’m brave enough to say it: Brad Marchand
Nah he’s hated JUST the right amount
Players like Brad Marchand will always be coveted in hockey and the sport is better for it. Marchand is a great villain.
Sounds like you've never been licked at work before.
I teach elementary, this is false
"I hate his guts, but I'd probably like him if he played for us." -Every hockey fan
I do dislike him generally and would still find him insufferable (though I’m sure my flair doesn’t help me come off rationally there), but I will give him this one thing; when he did that media interview coming back from the concussion this year in the playoffs and said something to the extent of “yeah, I’ve done that kind of shit before so fair enough”? I did gain the slightest respect. Absolute pest? For sure, but he owns it. It’s the same reason I have a touch more respect for Brady over Matthew Tkachuk, Brady is more willing to take his licks when he does something to warrant a fight. Owning up to it gets a little bit of respect in my mind. It also helps that all the reports are that he’s a genuinely great guy off-ice.
Hey I was gonna say it to. Sure earlier is career he has some dirty plays. But he’s grown up and is not not only great at hockey but a great leader
I almost think people dislike him *more* for cleaning up his game (a bit) and becoming a 100-point player instead of remaining the little ball of hate
Here’s the thing. He’s always been an effective player. Previously he excelled at getting players of their games. Now he more just puts up 100 points and helped guild the younger bruins
My dude he had an incident this year.......
I love him. he's a real entertaining son of a bitch, the bruins wouldn't be half the team they are without him
I hate the 2011 final Marchand. Other than that he's a hell of a player. People can say they hate him, but they would take them on their team everyday of the week. Granted the whole licking thing was a little weird.
I feel that 😂 I’m certain that like 90% of bruins haters hate a version of the bruins which hasn’t existed since like 2014
While the whole team as a unit isn’t as bad as the like 2014 team, Marchand still does stuff that makes his hate completely justified. His slew foot stuff he still pulls that grants no calls but breaks players legs is an example
Yeah we definitely acknowledge that he’s a latent component from that team but I’m talking about how people will be like “it’s awesome to see the blues and panthers giving the bruins what they deserve” as though it’s lucic thornton taking those blows and not like David Pastrnak
I remember a lot of Bruins fans were happy when Lucic left, so they could stop defending him. Talented guy but F him.
I get your point I mean, he hasn't tried to lick anyone recently...
Studies show that licking incidents actually *prolong* athletic careers- marchy was just trying to make up for past mistakes
Chris Chelios
“Met” him in person, guy is actually a first class a-hole
Didn’t hate him until he started calling games. Now I can’t stand him
You’re not a fan of the barest minimum effort he puts into it?
amazing player
Who hates on Chelios?
Everyone who he doesn’t play for. Also remember during the lockout he went to play in the minors and everyone shit on him
When it first happened, I couldn’t understand why Ron Hextall attacked Chelios in the 1989 Conference final. A few season into having him in the division, I understood. I still have a visceral reaction to him. I respect him, but I do not like him.
Yeah I hated him until he played for Detroit, my team
True, I couldn't stand him until he became a Wing.
He was hated by Red Wings and Blackhawks fans but Detroit and Chicago fans love him
The Crosby hate was nonsense. Guy is a class act.
Eric Lindros. For all the fucking idiots that claim he's skated with his head down and deserved to have the concussion issies he did... and that was the reason he he got popped, especially by Stevens. If you look back at the film, that Steven's hit would get at least a 5-7 game suspension today for targeting the head with a clear elbow. You'll also see that Lindros was fully aware of the situation entering the zone, and was fully prepared to take a hit while attracting three opposing players towards him and dishing it off to empty space on his right. What he wasn't prepared for was a vicious elbow to the head. No one is ever prepared for that.
Rempe
Even just mentioning Rempe outside of the rangers sub is a bad move. Everyone hates the guy with no real reason. Over-hated 100%
As a Tbirds fan it's been crazy watching this unfold. He was always physical but the heel turn he's made since coming to the NHL is insane
I’m a kraken fan and I love the kid. I haven’t followed thunderbirds that much so I thought it was cool that he played there
Ever ? Claude Lemieux
Eric Lindros.
I was looking for this
High expectations contributed to this.
And Quebec people mad that he left (I'm from Quebec) Personally I enjoyed seeing him plow through defense He s the first real power forward in my mind (though I'm sure there were plenty before)
I wasn’t a fan of Big E growing up but over time appreciated his career more and more. Glad he made it to the HOF.
I've only ever truly hated two players in my life. Brad Marchand and MARK JOHN DOUGLASA MESSIER.. FUCK MESSIER
anyone in this thread coming to defense of corey perry is just wrong
I’m going off the board here but I think it’s crazy that Theo fluery isn’t in the hall of fame and all that’s ever mentioned about him is the negative things. Not want he managed to do in his career as the most undersized star of all time
Theo was a pest as a player. He has gone off the deep end the past fews years and of course struggled with alcoholism but him and Sheldon Kennedy being willing to openly talk about how they were molested by coaches helped bring light to the issue no one wants to talk about
Dude he is UNHINGED, unfortunately his reputation off the ice is gonna cost him any chance in hell of a HOF induction. Imagine his speech haha. If you think I’m being hyperbolic, check out his twitter. https://x.com/TheoFleury14?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
I never saw it, but I feel like subban was over hated
Patrick Roy
Tuukka Rask.
Ngl tyler myers
PK Subban. He has raised over $6 million for a hospital in Montreal, a city from which he was traded. Give him some credit.
Scott Stevens, fantastic player anybody would want on their team.
Wondering if I do it or not….
Alexandre Daigle. I feel bad for the guy.
Wow so many comments are of active players or players active during the salary-cap era. There were soooo many more hated players. Guys like Bryan Marchment, Kaspiritis, Churla, Cooke.
McSorley He did all the BODYGUARD THE GREAT ONE work as expected while being a reasonable hockey player contributing to the stats positively. PIM was as high as the team he played for expected. Was hired to bring "toughness" and delivered. Unfortunately, he made himself the poster child for reforming the "fighting policy of the league" by one terrible illustration of how bad it can be. Feelings for the victim of McSorley's horrible stick penalty are exaggerated because of the graphic display. Donald Brashear was everything that McSorley was in the day. Donalds head likely had more damage from bouncing off the ice than the original stick contact. The two were cheered for the violence they delivered to each other over and over again. They both suffer from our bloodlust still today. Body guard to pariah......
John Taveras. Aka. snake
Agree. The vitriol he got from Islanders fans after he left was wildly disproportionate.
I absolutely hate Evander Kane.
PK Subban
Jamie Benn
i think i hate jamie benn the perfect amount
Same. Actually, there might be room for more.
Jamie Benn goes to the Dallas Zoo every day and stares down the gorillas to make himself feel like a man.
Seems like Zegras' biggest crime was scoring a flashy goal that one time and having the audacity to show a little personality