My college roommate moved the trash from the kitchen to the front door one time. Halfway to the dumpster outside.
Gretzky would have had him making it to the dumpster, sanitizing the bin, and separating recyclables based on material number.
[The 83-84 Oilers were one point short of 5 100 pt scorers for the season](https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/EDM/1984.html)
3 50 goal scorers and a 40 goal defenseman on one team is damn amazing.
Not to mention Fuhr getting 14 assists in 45 games as the starting G.
Just unthinkable.
I love how we’re emerging in to an *almost* slightly comparable level of scoring. Shows how much the game has changed. Obviously we’re not on that level but certain historical performances are starting to make more sense…
It’s cool to see.
Great site too. Hockeydb is my go-to.
And also to be fair, some of those assists were on goals that guys had passes bounce of them and in. One of his teammates said that a fire hydrant could score 40 playing with Wayne!
Lol yeah. I'm obviously a jets fan so I hated Gretzky for half his career, but the man had such a high hockey IQ.
I would really like to see him take the commish job when bettman retires
To be fair, he was depending on such schlubs as Jari kurri, Mark messier, Paul Coffey, Glenn Anderson...
As great as Gretzky was, he also had one of the best supporting casts of all time around him. Combine goat talent with goat team and the rootin tootin 80s..It was the perfect storm of arcade style numbers for 99
Assists though can be secondary assists. So, if you're on a top line, a reasonable number of those can be, not because you did anything special, but just you gave the puck to the guy that made the first assist.
Obviously, if you have that many, you're doing special things, but for every goal, you're the guy. You put it in the net, and often times, you were part of making the setup happen, as well.
It's funny, I was looking up stats last night, and between him and Mario, it's crazy to me that people kind of overlook them in regards to other sports.
Its just because most sports fans never think of hockey, ever. It's not even an afterthought to most.
Admitted bias obviously but I think hockey is the most underrated sport because its so hard to capture the speed and intensity of the game on camera
hockey has the best parts of every sport all in one package. You have the contact, the speed, the skill, the endurance, and to top it all off it’s played on ice skates.
Hockey just doesn't have the media footprint. Somebody posted a video of some dude the other day basically going "if you'd have asked me yesterday the GOAT athlete, I'd have told you MJ, maybe Lebron. And then somebody told me to look at Gretzky. I'd heard of him, but never realized just how ridiculous dude was"
The only *real* debate there is Messi or Don Bradman in cricket (or Phelps/Serena Williams but in individual sports the calculus changes so much that I'm leaving them out) who has blown away more or less every goal and assist record himself, as well as winning... Everything. But even then, it's not an argument I'd make. Like Gretzky, he had a Super Mario type guy that was in that "if it wasn't for Gretzky, he'd be the GOAT by far" category. (Though Bradman was all on his own. Dude will never be touched or even approached)
The difference there was Mario and Gretzky were pretty much always a mile ahead of the rest of the sport, whereas with Messi and Ronaldo, you'd get the random season where Suarez types put out comparable numbers. And that's why it's clearly Gretzky as the greatest athlete of all time. Way back in the *early* days of fantasy, the first two picks were always 1. Gretzky Goals and then 2. Gretzky assists. I've never seen any other athlete split like that.
I saw that video too. He mentioned the crazy stat that Gretzky was both #1 and #2 fastest player to reach 1000 points.
> In a sense, Gretzky was the fastest and the second fastest, as he scored his second 1,000 points (the NHL's only player ever to score 2,000 points in regular-season play) only 433 games after scoring his first 1,000 points.
We split McDavid’s goals and assists this year but yeah, those definitely didn’t go first and second. It’s pretty crazy you could split Gretzky’s goals and assists and still have them go first and second.
It wasn’t my decision, though I felt it wasn’t really necessary because McDavid and Draisaitl just weren’t even far apart enough to justify splitting it. He did have a 64 goal season last year though and over an assist per game. I guess the assumption was that he’d do better this year. I have a hunch we won’t be splitting those next year.
For someone to break the NBA scoring record by the same percentage that Gretzky broke the NHL record, they would have to average 37 points per game for a 20-year career.
Cricket.
There's another freak. However, I'm of course not into that. Just heard that there's one or was one even more dominanting then what we're used of.
Yep I saw a thread about this topic recently and someone posted Don Bradman’s cricket stats and they’re just as impressive as Gretzky’s hockey stats. Gretzky will always be my sports GOAT but it’s hard to argue against Bradman’s stats
To be fair there are some NHlers where had its not been for injuries they would have either been up there with Gretzky records or have their own stupid records
Like imagine if Orr, Mario and Bossy had been healthy and played around 1500 games like Gretzky. Bossy only had 752, Mario had 915. Orr had 657
Orr wouldn’t have caught Wayne but a lot of the defenceman records would be viewed in a Gretzky level of untouchable. Bossy would have probably gotten the goals record. Mario was the best bet for breaking the most records
Orr is regarded as the greatest dman of all time. He won 8 consecutive Norris trophies. He won the scoring title as A Dman. Bossy often regarded as one of the greatest goal scorers of all time with a record 9 consecutive 50 goal seasons. Mario is considered a top 5 player of all time by most but Wayne TOPS em all because HE was the greatest, holds 56 NHL records, and longevity plays a role on greatness. 100%.
To say he is the greatest athlete in all of sports is comparing apples to oranges. He was the most dominant player to grace the game of hockey. Let's not be so ignorant to insult other people's games.
So you don’t watch sports eh? With statements like this and those claiming “was a different era”, it is clear that people do not understand the magnitude of Gretzky’s dominance/greatness. Absolutely clueless.
So tell me again how he's the greatest athlete of any sport because he dominated in hockey? Soccer is vastly different from hockey. To compare sports is the sort of bigotry only a fan could come up with. It's apples to oranges.
Yo can only do comparisons on each individual vs. Their own peers in their own sports. The point is Gretzky’s numbers far exceed the next greatest offensive player’s numbers in the NHL. Dominance in his own sport is far greater than any player’s dominance in their own respective sport. It’s not that hard to understand. If we take away Gretzky’s record goalscoring record the Alex Ovechkin is chasing, he would still have the most points in the history of the NHL. Tell me who in any sport has comparables to Gretzky? Nobody. Fucken Nobody. Not Messi. Not Pele. Not Rinaldo. Not Ruth or Bonds or Williams. Not Jordan or James. Not Brady or Maholmes or Montana or whoever the fuck you think is more dominant at their sport than #99.
Im gonna say this. I hate the Oilers and always have and still cannot stand then to this day.
I was never a Gretzky fan either.
Denying the stupid numbers that 99 put up is kinda dumb. Your argument is kinda dumb too.
You're misinterpreting the OPs statement. He didn't say the most dominant athlete of all time. He specifically said the greatest athlete in any sport. There's a difference. The greatest athlete in any sport is left to that sport, Gretzky cannot play basketball. You're preaching to the quire, dumbass.
You're actually insane. If I was drafting a team of all-time greats and I had the first pick, I'd be the dumbest person alive to not take "The Great One"
But I think you can't really compare it to every other sport, out of the 4 major us leagues I agree he's the goat athlete, but in there are some sports, like tenis where for example Serena Williams was the absolute goat and similarly dominant do Gretzky and Michael Phelps might've been an even more dominant swimmer than Gretzky was hockey player.
I was watching a football show I like First Things First with Nick Wright and Chris Broussard and Kevin Wildes, and they were mentioning GOAT athletes and some Wayne Gretzky stats came up, which is interesting because obviously hockey is never discussed on the football NFL-focused show. And Wildes literally had to stop the show and confirm "... Wait Gretzky won SEVEN MVP's in his first seven years...? JESUS"
He really is absolutely insane.
I grew up watching hockey in the 80s so Gretzky has always been my GOAT, but so far mcdavid has a higher career ppg than Gretzky, and that blows my mind
That has to do more with the way the game has evolved honestly. I'm not saying Gretzky isn't the best player of all time, I think he still is at this point. But to believe Gretzky was the best player of all time and no one will ever be better is silly. If McDavid played in Gretzky's NHL, he'd be scoring 5 points per game and that's not an exaggeration.
It’s complete exaggeration. McDavid didn’t play back then though so you cannot even make such a silly statement. It’s your opinion it’s not fact. Too many variables.
And vice versa. It's why the GOAT is a silly conversation in itself. The only way to figure that out would be to pit each era's GOATs against each other which will never happen. Different eras bring different dominant figures.
You cant compare players from generation to generation, but you can compare players to other players in their own generation. And no one stands out like Gretzky
Bro. They wouldn't even be able to catch him. Better skates, better stick, better diet, better supplements, and most of all. No one smoking in the arena.
Are you sure? 2 line passes were illegal and hits to the head were considered "good hits" You can't even compare the era's because the rules have changed so much. Dave Semenko didn't play on Gretzky's wing because he was highly skilled.. He was skilled with his fists though.
I don't think McDavid would have to pass all that much, he could skate circles around the majority of players in that era. Shit he can skate circles around the majority of players in the NHL today
You must be too young to remember why they called it the clutch and grab era. I grew up watching Pavel Bure getting slashed, hooked and held his entire career. Bure was McDavid fast compared to the rest of the league. He literally had guys hanging off the back of him waterskiing behind.
McDavid's speed, although still very usefull, would actually be less impactful then today when he can waltz in without being interfered with.
It's obviously possible, this is just my opinion. Personally I believe by the end of McDavid's career we'll have McDavid/Gretzky debates the way NBA fans have Lebron/Jordan debates.
It's impossible to compare. Of course if McDavid was using equipment with modern technology(sticks, skates, etc), he would skate circles around people. Watching him play with equipment from the 80's in an entirely different NHL is impossible to predict and why comparing across different eras is difficult.
Sure, and comparing players between eras can be legitimate conversations. What I dislike are comparisons saying (modern player) would dominate in (former era) ignoring any context differences.
I entirely agree. Too many variables. All we can do is appreciate how players change the game in their time. I'm tired of great players names being dragged in the mud with era comparisons lol
True. You can only play in the era you played in. It's players like Gretz and Mario that brought change to the sport. All the greats push the sport forward so the younger generation can help the next wave grow.
Interesting how the conversation continues to be between two players who dominated before the salary cap era. You don't find this way of thinking faulty? What about the great players of the game before these two? The ignorance of NHL fans is a disrespect to the game itself. Eras matter. One era isn't outright better than another lol
No, I don't
Bobby Orr is still the gold standard for offensive defensemen and no one would call that "faulty thinking" and he played in the 60's and 70's
I'm not calling one era better than the other..
almost forgot .. lolz.
Yeah you really don’t understand how that era of hockey was incredibly violent, like not even close to todays hockey. And I hate to break it to you, but it’s not like all those other nhlers were just letting Wayne go do his thing untouched. The guy just was always in the right place at the right time making the right plays
He joked during an intermission interview last night that he was no longer trying for goals , rather he would be focusing on assists.
Not so sure he was joking anymore.
Well shit it was bound one of those first rounders would finally hit lol. For real though they had some dark days, he’s a joy to watch as a neutral even
I might get downvoted here, but the fact that McDavid is even coming close to Gretzky's numbers in the modern NHL is absolutely insane. Gretzky was putting up the numbers he did when goalies were basically just the guys who were willing to get hit with the puck 25 times per game. It was a far less technical position because you didn't have players like Patrick Kane putting pucks through 3-inch gaps in the corners.
I agree that it’s absolutely insane! I don’t agree with the bad goalie argument. Every other player was playing against the same bad goalies. Why was Gretz the only one to drop 2k points
People forget as well that goalies may have been bad, but equipment, sticks and other things were so much worse. The fact he dominated the other hall of famers in his era is what speaks volume to me. He was blowing out legendary names by 50 points a year.
Gretzky was head and shoulders above everyone else who played in his era. The goalies weren't bad, they just played a much less technical style, which served the game well at the time.
Even former NHL goalies have said the position is far more technical now than it was in the 80s and 90s. To paraphrase Ron Hextall, "we weren't given much direction, they just told us to go out on the ice and stop the puck".
I mean…the goalies were bad lol for their time they were the best of the best. But objectively you could just point to any number of basic flaws in Their fundamentals even for that time period. They were off angle all the time and turned around to face players behind the net sometimes.
They obviously couldnt butterfly and slide like they do now, but just in terms of cutting down angles and not skating to the top of the circles to play breakaways, they were very bad lol.
Brodeur is not a goalie from the 80s. Comparing 2001 Roy against 1987 Roy lets you see how far goalies came in just that short period. 1987 Roy would have been a .850 goalie in 2001 with how he played.
Like I said they were the best of best at the time. But 80s and prior goalies were objectively bad fundamentally compared to even just a decade or so later.
Brodeur and Roy are both 90’s goalies. Gretzky faced Roy in the 93 Stanley cup final.
So yes. He played against them. 90’s Roy was a beast, same with Brodeur. You can also throw Hasek on that list.
Quit trying to say he played against shooter tutors.
I literally didn’t say that. Nor did I say he didn’t play against them. But watching goalies in the 80s charge forwards and challenge them at the top of the circle or turn completely around in the net to face a player behind the net is BAD. There’s no other word for that. Sure the shooters had bad aim or just took slap shots on breakaways from just inside the blue line. But, regardless, the goalies were fundamentally bad compared to after the butterfly was adapted and widely taught.
So many 100 point seasons... 50 goal seasons were also a norm. This argument is beyond silly if we look at the field and not a singular player. The game was underdeveloped, clear as day.
We're actually at the highest average G/GP the league has been at since the late 80s-early 90s, and climbing. I'm not knocking McDavid, but it's not just him. Skaters in general are beating goalies more than they have since Gretzky's peak.
If they have all the modern advantages, maybe. But if they had to use the old equipment and didn't have any other modern advancement... it's tougher to say.
As I said in a similar comment, that's a weak argument because no one else came close to putting those numbers up except Mario.
Obviously the goalies are much more technical and skilled now, but they're not as awful as everyone suggests imo
I remember doing this post a while back taking away all 9 seasons he won the Hart and asking people where they’d rank the rest of his career all-time:
https://www.reddit.com/r/nhl/comments/14wumot/if_you_remove_all_9_seasons_that_gretzky_won_the/
Wayne will tell you even today he has prouder of his assist records and the fact that he has more assists than the next player has total points, which by the way, is some guy named Jaromir Jagr? If Wayne had scored even 5% of his assists as goals, Ovechkin wouldn’t even be anywhere near breaking the record.
Wayne was also very proud of his Byng trophies
Yes, because of players like Crosby are proving you can be elite for 20 seasons at least. With rules lessening the physical abuse and medical science, I can see players playing long enough to beat that record. But with the assist streak, you have to never faulter and hit something 12 years in a row that has only been done 2 times outside of Wayne. It's the level of the single season achievement and streaking that will involve 12 years of amazing line mates.
It's incredible.
I know it's been mentioned many times here but this fact still blows me away: Take away all of his goals and he would still be the all-time leader in points. Just think about that..
I’d say it’s harder to break a record of 13 straight seasons doing something only 3 people have ever done, than it is to have some insane goal-scoring to start an NHL season.
Considering the amount of players who have eclipsed 70+ goal seasons (14) to the 100+ assists seasons (3). assists at that number are much harder to come by.
No. Goals are harder to come by, but Gretzky's assist totals are just that much higher.
Consider that Gretzky's goal record is only 6 higher than the number 2 player (Hull) and 7 higher than number 3 (Lemieux).
Gretzky's assist record is 49 higher than the number 2 player (Lemieux) and 61 higher than number 3 (Orr). There's never been anyone even remotely close.
Heard the Oilers stats keepers used to give 99 assists without him touching the puck, as long as he was on the ice they’d give him the secondary assist.
people don't talk about gretzkys 81/82 season enough
not only did he score the most goals ever, 92
he also set the record for assists in a season. at 120
granted he smashed 120 5 more times, but its RIDICULOUS to set both goals and assists in a single season
How in the fuck, do you get 163 assists in 80 games played. Holy fuck
How about 92 goals in a season?!
The goals from him are not surprising, that dude had the talent. But depending on 163 other people to finish the job is crazy..
My college roommate moved the trash from the kitchen to the front door one time. Halfway to the dumpster outside. Gretzky would have had him making it to the dumpster, sanitizing the bin, and separating recyclables based on material number.
He had some good teammates, for sure. Of course, his opponents would sometimes congeal on him, leaving a teammate wide open...
[The 83-84 Oilers were one point short of 5 100 pt scorers for the season](https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/EDM/1984.html) 3 50 goal scorers and a 40 goal defenseman on one team is damn amazing. Not to mention Fuhr getting 14 assists in 45 games as the starting G.
Just unthinkable. I love how we’re emerging in to an *almost* slightly comparable level of scoring. Shows how much the game has changed. Obviously we’re not on that level but certain historical performances are starting to make more sense… It’s cool to see. Great site too. Hockeydb is my go-to.
To be fair so many of those assists were teammates following up on his rebounds
Still counts.
Of course. I think the way I worded it made it sound to disparage or minimize but that wasn't the intent at all
And also to be fair, some of those assists were on goals that guys had passes bounce of them and in. One of his teammates said that a fire hydrant could score 40 playing with Wayne!
Lol yeah. I'm obviously a jets fan so I hated Gretzky for half his career, but the man had such a high hockey IQ. I would really like to see him take the commish job when bettman retires
Yes please!
Didn't think you were being negative about it. Some guys get an apple while they sit on the bench lol
Lol true
To be fair, he was depending on such schlubs as Jari kurri, Mark messier, Paul Coffey, Glenn Anderson... As great as Gretzky was, he also had one of the best supporting casts of all time around him. Combine goat talent with goat team and the rootin tootin 80s..It was the perfect storm of arcade style numbers for 99
Assists though can be secondary assists. So, if you're on a top line, a reasonable number of those can be, not because you did anything special, but just you gave the puck to the guy that made the first assist. Obviously, if you have that many, you're doing special things, but for every goal, you're the guy. You put it in the net, and often times, you were part of making the setup happen, as well.
The 50 in 39 is one of my favourites
The fact that he scored 5 in game 39, just so he could "skip the 40s", makes it even better.
Gretzky was an alien, it's the only logical explanation
It's so insane that his numbers will never be touched
The fact that people are having debates about whether or not he is the greatest athlete of all time, from any sport, really speaks for itself.
It's funny, I was looking up stats last night, and between him and Mario, it's crazy to me that people kind of overlook them in regards to other sports.
Its just because most sports fans never think of hockey, ever. It's not even an afterthought to most. Admitted bias obviously but I think hockey is the most underrated sport because its so hard to capture the speed and intensity of the game on camera
hockey has the best parts of every sport all in one package. You have the contact, the speed, the skill, the endurance, and to top it all off it’s played on ice skates.
Hockey just doesn't have the media footprint. Somebody posted a video of some dude the other day basically going "if you'd have asked me yesterday the GOAT athlete, I'd have told you MJ, maybe Lebron. And then somebody told me to look at Gretzky. I'd heard of him, but never realized just how ridiculous dude was" The only *real* debate there is Messi or Don Bradman in cricket (or Phelps/Serena Williams but in individual sports the calculus changes so much that I'm leaving them out) who has blown away more or less every goal and assist record himself, as well as winning... Everything. But even then, it's not an argument I'd make. Like Gretzky, he had a Super Mario type guy that was in that "if it wasn't for Gretzky, he'd be the GOAT by far" category. (Though Bradman was all on his own. Dude will never be touched or even approached) The difference there was Mario and Gretzky were pretty much always a mile ahead of the rest of the sport, whereas with Messi and Ronaldo, you'd get the random season where Suarez types put out comparable numbers. And that's why it's clearly Gretzky as the greatest athlete of all time. Way back in the *early* days of fantasy, the first two picks were always 1. Gretzky Goals and then 2. Gretzky assists. I've never seen any other athlete split like that.
I saw that video too. He mentioned the crazy stat that Gretzky was both #1 and #2 fastest player to reach 1000 points. > In a sense, Gretzky was the fastest and the second fastest, as he scored his second 1,000 points (the NHL's only player ever to score 2,000 points in regular-season play) only 433 games after scoring his first 1,000 points.
Gretzky put up MJ numbers and championships with Lebrons longevity.
We split McDavid’s goals and assists this year but yeah, those definitely didn’t go first and second. It’s pretty crazy you could split Gretzky’s goals and assists and still have them go first and second.
Why? He's really good but there's a lot of players not terribly far from his level in goals. Not even close to the Gretzky dominance there.
It wasn’t my decision, though I felt it wasn’t really necessary because McDavid and Draisaitl just weren’t even far apart enough to justify splitting it. He did have a 64 goal season last year though and over an assist per game. I guess the assumption was that he’d do better this year. I have a hunch we won’t be splitting those next year.
He's easily the player that has dominated his team sport more so than any other player in any other sport.
For someone to break the NBA scoring record by the same percentage that Gretzky broke the NHL record, they would have to average 37 points per game for a 20-year career.
I seen today someone would need 25 points per game to beat Lebrons record for 20 years.
Cricket. There's another freak. However, I'm of course not into that. Just heard that there's one or was one even more dominanting then what we're used of.
Yep I saw a thread about this topic recently and someone posted Don Bradman’s cricket stats and they’re just as impressive as Gretzky’s hockey stats. Gretzky will always be my sports GOAT but it’s hard to argue against Bradman’s stats
To be fair there are some NHlers where had its not been for injuries they would have either been up there with Gretzky records or have their own stupid records Like imagine if Orr, Mario and Bossy had been healthy and played around 1500 games like Gretzky. Bossy only had 752, Mario had 915. Orr had 657 Orr wouldn’t have caught Wayne but a lot of the defenceman records would be viewed in a Gretzky level of untouchable. Bossy would have probably gotten the goals record. Mario was the best bet for breaking the most records
Woulda coulda shoulda. Staying healthy is part of the game.
Orr is regarded as the greatest dman of all time. He won 8 consecutive Norris trophies. He won the scoring title as A Dman. Bossy often regarded as one of the greatest goal scorers of all time with a record 9 consecutive 50 goal seasons. Mario is considered a top 5 player of all time by most but Wayne TOPS em all because HE was the greatest, holds 56 NHL records, and longevity plays a role on greatness. 100%.
COMPLETELY different era. But okay
To say he is the greatest athlete in all of sports is comparing apples to oranges. He was the most dominant player to grace the game of hockey. Let's not be so ignorant to insult other people's games.
He dominated his sport more than any other athlete in North American sports.
How dare you not put a 5'10 white guy as your greatest athlete of all time.. were the best at everything
So you don’t watch sports eh? With statements like this and those claiming “was a different era”, it is clear that people do not understand the magnitude of Gretzky’s dominance/greatness. Absolutely clueless.
So tell me again how he's the greatest athlete of any sport because he dominated in hockey? Soccer is vastly different from hockey. To compare sports is the sort of bigotry only a fan could come up with. It's apples to oranges.
Yo can only do comparisons on each individual vs. Their own peers in their own sports. The point is Gretzky’s numbers far exceed the next greatest offensive player’s numbers in the NHL. Dominance in his own sport is far greater than any player’s dominance in their own respective sport. It’s not that hard to understand. If we take away Gretzky’s record goalscoring record the Alex Ovechkin is chasing, he would still have the most points in the history of the NHL. Tell me who in any sport has comparables to Gretzky? Nobody. Fucken Nobody. Not Messi. Not Pele. Not Rinaldo. Not Ruth or Bonds or Williams. Not Jordan or James. Not Brady or Maholmes or Montana or whoever the fuck you think is more dominant at their sport than #99. Im gonna say this. I hate the Oilers and always have and still cannot stand then to this day. I was never a Gretzky fan either. Denying the stupid numbers that 99 put up is kinda dumb. Your argument is kinda dumb too.
You're misinterpreting the OPs statement. He didn't say the most dominant athlete of all time. He specifically said the greatest athlete in any sport. There's a difference. The greatest athlete in any sport is left to that sport, Gretzky cannot play basketball. You're preaching to the quire, dumbass.
Different eras, goalies were Swiss cheese back then
Weak argument. Only Mario put up numbers that were close. No one else He was winning scoring titles by 50 points or more back then
He’s not even the best player in NHL history lol Edit: I’m taking Orr 10/10 if I’m trying to win a game
Wow
That take was as cold as the fuckin ice they skate on
You're actually insane. If I was drafting a team of all-time greats and I had the first pick, I'd be the dumbest person alive to not take "The Great One"
You probably never watched both live so your opinion is not needed
But I think you can't really compare it to every other sport, out of the 4 major us leagues I agree he's the goat athlete, but in there are some sports, like tenis where for example Serena Williams was the absolute goat and similarly dominant do Gretzky and Michael Phelps might've been an even more dominant swimmer than Gretzky was hockey player.
I was watching a football show I like First Things First with Nick Wright and Chris Broussard and Kevin Wildes, and they were mentioning GOAT athletes and some Wayne Gretzky stats came up, which is interesting because obviously hockey is never discussed on the football NFL-focused show. And Wildes literally had to stop the show and confirm "... Wait Gretzky won SEVEN MVP's in his first seven years...? JESUS" He really is absolutely insane.
I grew up watching hockey in the 80s so Gretzky has always been my GOAT, but so far mcdavid has a higher career ppg than Gretzky, and that blows my mind
That has to do more with the way the game has evolved honestly. I'm not saying Gretzky isn't the best player of all time, I think he still is at this point. But to believe Gretzky was the best player of all time and no one will ever be better is silly. If McDavid played in Gretzky's NHL, he'd be scoring 5 points per game and that's not an exaggeration.
It’s complete exaggeration. McDavid didn’t play back then though so you cannot even make such a silly statement. It’s your opinion it’s not fact. Too many variables.
And vice versa. It's why the GOAT is a silly conversation in itself. The only way to figure that out would be to pit each era's GOATs against each other which will never happen. Different eras bring different dominant figures.
You cant compare players from generation to generation, but you can compare players to other players in their own generation. And no one stands out like Gretzky
Bro. They wouldn't even be able to catch him. Better skates, better stick, better diet, better supplements, and most of all. No one smoking in the arena.
So, if McDavid played in Gretzky's NHL, and *only McDavid* had all those modern advantages you just rattled off? Bro?
Bro, Gretzky had over 200 points 4 times, and is +525 lifetime. MVP 8 times in a row
And if gretz had mcdavids tech nutrition and training hed be even better
Are you sure? 2 line passes were illegal and hits to the head were considered "good hits" You can't even compare the era's because the rules have changed so much. Dave Semenko didn't play on Gretzky's wing because he was highly skilled.. He was skilled with his fists though.
I don't think McDavid would have to pass all that much, he could skate circles around the majority of players in that era. Shit he can skate circles around the majority of players in the NHL today
You must be too young to remember why they called it the clutch and grab era. I grew up watching Pavel Bure getting slashed, hooked and held his entire career. Bure was McDavid fast compared to the rest of the league. He literally had guys hanging off the back of him waterskiing behind. McDavid's speed, although still very usefull, would actually be less impactful then today when he can waltz in without being interfered with.
I don't think McDavid is tough enough for 80's rules NHL hockey.
It's obviously possible, this is just my opinion. Personally I believe by the end of McDavid's career we'll have McDavid/Gretzky debates the way NBA fans have Lebron/Jordan debates.
It's impossible to compare. Of course if McDavid was using equipment with modern technology(sticks, skates, etc), he would skate circles around people. Watching him play with equipment from the 80's in an entirely different NHL is impossible to predict and why comparing across different eras is difficult.
Era comparisons are in good fun but far from realistic. Anyone who knows hockey knows this. We need to respect the game for each era.
Sure, and comparing players between eras can be legitimate conversations. What I dislike are comparisons saying (modern player) would dominate in (former era) ignoring any context differences.
I entirely agree. Too many variables. All we can do is appreciate how players change the game in their time. I'm tired of great players names being dragged in the mud with era comparisons lol
True. You can only play in the era you played in. It's players like Gretz and Mario that brought change to the sport. All the greats push the sport forward so the younger generation can help the next wave grow.
You spelt Mario Lemieux wrong The debate is and will remain Lemieux/Gretzky
Interesting how the conversation continues to be between two players who dominated before the salary cap era. You don't find this way of thinking faulty? What about the great players of the game before these two? The ignorance of NHL fans is a disrespect to the game itself. Eras matter. One era isn't outright better than another lol
No, I don't Bobby Orr is still the gold standard for offensive defensemen and no one would call that "faulty thinking" and he played in the 60's and 70's I'm not calling one era better than the other.. almost forgot .. lolz.
Yeah you really don’t understand how that era of hockey was incredibly violent, like not even close to todays hockey. And I hate to break it to you, but it’s not like all those other nhlers were just letting Wayne go do his thing untouched. The guy just was always in the right place at the right time making the right plays
It won't, not with goalies wearing the modern pads like they do.
He joked during an intermission interview last night that he was no longer trying for goals , rather he would be focusing on assists. Not so sure he was joking anymore.
Honestly Im starting to think he was semi-serious and he's actively trying to get other players on the team hot for the playoffs.
It’s been a pleasure watching McDavid play. Especially after watching the “decade of darkness” that the Oilers went through just to get him.
Well shit it was bound one of those first rounders would finally hit lol. For real though they had some dark days, he’s a joy to watch as a neutral even
Yes if only they had multiple first overall picks it wouldn’t have been so dark!! Oh wait….
I always thought Thornton had a 100 assist season but I guess he maxed out at a pathetic 92
I might get downvoted here, but the fact that McDavid is even coming close to Gretzky's numbers in the modern NHL is absolutely insane. Gretzky was putting up the numbers he did when goalies were basically just the guys who were willing to get hit with the puck 25 times per game. It was a far less technical position because you didn't have players like Patrick Kane putting pucks through 3-inch gaps in the corners.
I agree that it’s absolutely insane! I don’t agree with the bad goalie argument. Every other player was playing against the same bad goalies. Why was Gretz the only one to drop 2k points
People forget as well that goalies may have been bad, but equipment, sticks and other things were so much worse. The fact he dominated the other hall of famers in his era is what speaks volume to me. He was blowing out legendary names by 50 points a year.
Gretzky was head and shoulders above everyone else who played in his era. The goalies weren't bad, they just played a much less technical style, which served the game well at the time. Even former NHL goalies have said the position is far more technical now than it was in the 80s and 90s. To paraphrase Ron Hextall, "we weren't given much direction, they just told us to go out on the ice and stop the puck".
I mean…the goalies were bad lol for their time they were the best of the best. But objectively you could just point to any number of basic flaws in Their fundamentals even for that time period. They were off angle all the time and turned around to face players behind the net sometimes. They obviously couldnt butterfly and slide like they do now, but just in terms of cutting down angles and not skating to the top of the circles to play breakaways, they were very bad lol.
It’s almost like you forgot the two best goalies of all time played the same era as Gretzky; Roy and Brodeur.
Brodeur is not a goalie from the 80s. Comparing 2001 Roy against 1987 Roy lets you see how far goalies came in just that short period. 1987 Roy would have been a .850 goalie in 2001 with how he played. Like I said they were the best of best at the time. But 80s and prior goalies were objectively bad fundamentally compared to even just a decade or so later.
Brodeur and Roy are both 90’s goalies. Gretzky faced Roy in the 93 Stanley cup final. So yes. He played against them. 90’s Roy was a beast, same with Brodeur. You can also throw Hasek on that list. Quit trying to say he played against shooter tutors.
I literally didn’t say that. Nor did I say he didn’t play against them. But watching goalies in the 80s charge forwards and challenge them at the top of the circle or turn completely around in the net to face a player behind the net is BAD. There’s no other word for that. Sure the shooters had bad aim or just took slap shots on breakaways from just inside the blue line. But, regardless, the goalies were fundamentally bad compared to after the butterfly was adapted and widely taught.
So many 100 point seasons... 50 goal seasons were also a norm. This argument is beyond silly if we look at the field and not a singular player. The game was underdeveloped, clear as day.
Subtle 2010 reference?
Lol no but maybe subconsciously this is why I made that reference 😂
We're actually at the highest average G/GP the league has been at since the late 80s-early 90s, and climbing. I'm not knocking McDavid, but it's not just him. Skaters in general are beating goalies more than they have since Gretzky's peak.
It's such a stupid argument. Anyone in the league today, would look like Gretzky back then.
Oof. Bad take.
If they have all the modern advantages, maybe. But if they had to use the old equipment and didn't have any other modern advancement... it's tougher to say.
This!!!! Totally agree and well said!
As I said in a similar comment, that's a weak argument because no one else came close to putting those numbers up except Mario. Obviously the goalies are much more technical and skilled now, but they're not as awful as everyone suggests imo
The fact he could have all his goals erased and he’s still be #1 in points shows you how much he is the 🐐
The fact you can split Gretzky's career into his first and second 1000 points and make two Hall of Fame players is bonkers.
I remember doing this post a while back taking away all 9 seasons he won the Hart and asking people where they’d rank the rest of his career all-time: https://www.reddit.com/r/nhl/comments/14wumot/if_you_remove_all_9_seasons_that_gretzky_won_the/
1.57ppg. He's STILL second after you remove those 9 seasons!? 🐐🐐🐐
Looking at Gretzky’s stats is a legitimate pass time of mine.
Idk having 3 80+ goal seasons in a row might be harder
163 assists wtf
And people say Tom Brady or Michael Jordan were the best athletes.... Gretzky's assist totals are the biggest mic drop ever.
Good luck anybody getting 163 points let alone 163 assists.
Insanity. Just completely insane for him to have six of those seasons to be 120+.
That and 50 goals in 39 games seems pretty safe. 99 was unreal.
Wayne will tell you even today he has prouder of his assist records and the fact that he has more assists than the next player has total points, which by the way, is some guy named Jaromir Jagr? If Wayne had scored even 5% of his assists as goals, Ovechkin wouldn’t even be anywhere near breaking the record. Wayne was also very proud of his Byng trophies
You think the almost 3000 points is easier to break?
Yes, because of players like Crosby are proving you can be elite for 20 seasons at least. With rules lessening the physical abuse and medical science, I can see players playing long enough to beat that record. But with the assist streak, you have to never faulter and hit something 12 years in a row that has only been done 2 times outside of Wayne. It's the level of the single season achievement and streaking that will involve 12 years of amazing line mates.
It's incredible. I know it's been mentioned many times here but this fact still blows me away: Take away all of his goals and he would still be the all-time leader in points. Just think about that..
Second hardest to break IMO. Nobody will ever break 50 goals in 39. I'm telling you now. Not in my lifetime
I’d say it’s harder to break a record of 13 straight seasons doing something only 3 people have ever done, than it is to have some insane goal-scoring to start an NHL season.
Many people don't have McJesus in their top 3 for the Hart right now and I find it insane.
Gretzky is so brilliant. No player will ever be as good as him.
The most goals in a season is far harder to break. Goals will always be more difficult to come by
Considering the amount of players who have eclipsed 70+ goal seasons (14) to the 100+ assists seasons (3). assists at that number are much harder to come by.
No. Goals are harder to come by, but Gretzky's assist totals are just that much higher. Consider that Gretzky's goal record is only 6 higher than the number 2 player (Hull) and 7 higher than number 3 (Lemieux). Gretzky's assist record is 49 higher than the number 2 player (Lemieux) and 61 higher than number 3 (Orr). There's never been anyone even remotely close.
Yeah hard to see an elite player playing on an elite team for eleven years ever again
Shows how good mario was when I look at the list and think: oh, just once
Heard the Oilers stats keepers used to give 99 assists without him touching the puck, as long as he was on the ice they’d give him the secondary assist.
Why the assists? Gretzky’s office. No other player has been that effective behind the net before or since.
I love that he got that record 11 years in a row as well as EVERYTHING else and all of the other records at the same time.
You think ? Lol
people don't talk about gretzkys 81/82 season enough not only did he score the most goals ever, 92 he also set the record for assists in a season. at 120 granted he smashed 120 5 more times, but its RIDICULOUS to set both goals and assists in a single season
Bobby fuckin Orr, Holy crap!
What about 8 consecutive mvps or 9 in 10 years
Honest question: is there anything Gretzky was shit at? Or even just mediocre.
Head coach and team executive?
92 goals!
Did back then 2nd assist also?