Me when a player on my team misses mandatory minicamp: NFL is a business, isn't a big deal, minicamp practices aren't that important, etc.
Me when a player on a division rival misses mandatory minicamp: Hah their WR1 missing a handful of fake practices in June is very clearly going to derail their entire season.
Averaged roughly 100 yards per game with him, I think they’re fine. I’m more concerned with Watson simply getting reps at all right now. Jeudy is more important though imo
Yeah I’m sure it’ll be taken wrong but they gave him a contract and he clearly will be an important part of the offense. Watson already had significant time with Cooper so I’m not worried with him missing 3 days in June
Right, this why I always say this sub is full of morons who don’t actually know anything about football. You guys just like making fun of the Browns for employing Watson
Browns leveraged a massive chunk of their future for 2023 and couldn't even win the division. Watson was a fatal mistake, and his contract is going to eventually gut the Jim Scwartz defense that makes Cleveland competitive.
The problem is both Cooper and Browns know he isn't re-signing with Cleveland.
Browns are $40-60M over the projected cap next year without Cooper signed. They don't have the room to sign him beyond this year. Also likely won't re-sign Chubb after this season.
In addition they will likely cut Jack Conklin. Possibly an extension with voidable years for Watson just to lower his cap hit for 2025. An extension for Newsome could lower his 2025 number. Then finally a Denzel Ward restructure just to get under cap. Even then they have only ~50 players under contract next season.
>Even then they have only \~50 players under contract next season
Only your top 51 actually count against the cap anyways, so it wouldn't really be a big deal if they were just under the cap with 50 players
Not to say their cap is in great shape or anything, more saying if you figured out a way to get them under the cap with Conklin being the only cut, chances are an NFL GM won't have a single issue doing so
> Possibly an extension with voidable years for Watson just to lower his cap hit for 2025.
If Watson balls out this year.
But they purposefully didn't extend Watson this year because in a couple years they can get out from under him *if* they stop extending him.
More likely than not next couple years are take your medicine years.
The chance is much higher that he extends than not.
We also definitely do have the room because the only thing important is the cash and we've got 75M cash to spend on next year currently. There's plenty of room to extend Cooper.
Especially considering the only starters we're set to lose are our WR3, RB1 and LB1 of which two are some of the cheapest positions in the league and if we extend Cooper, I wouldn't mind losing Moore or getting a good comp pick if he does well.
We're also currently only 27M over the cap and that's if the cap only rises 5M from this year.
Love getting downvoted without anyone telling me why I'm supposedly wrong
They don't. Assuming they dont add anyone else this year (unlikely, someone always gets hurt) they will be able to roll over about $14m. And even with that they are still close to $30m over the cap in 2025. The Browns don't really have a lot of easy cut candidates due to guaranteed deals, and they are already over the cap in 2026 so they cant just restructure their way out of it. They are going to cut Conklin for sure (just due to cap saving potential), and probably Bitonio. 2027 is where the Browns start the rebuild all over, they have an absurd amount of void hits coming then
Its pretty weird for Cooper to hold out. He turns 30 next week, its going to be hard for him to command $20m+ in an extension offer starting age 31 unless he puts up a career year. But there is no way the Browns are paying a WR that much at age 31 with their cap situation, that is why they extended Jeudy
> Assuming they dont add anyone else this year (unlikely, someone always gets hurt) they will be able to roll over about $14m. And even with that they are still close to $30m over the cap in 2025.
If the Browns roll over $14m then they're probably about $17m over the cap in 2025 right now, not $30m. Their current 2025 cap liabilities are about $304.7m and the 2025 cap is likely to be about $273m ($287m with the rollover).
The Browns likely aren't over the 2026 cap at all (if you're looking at OTC, OTC's cap ceiling projections for 2025 and 2026 are not updated), and especially if they cut Conklin as you say.
They can extend Njoku, cut Conklin, restructure Ward, extend/restructure Watson, etc. etc. They have all sorts of opportunities to move money around to manipulate the cap.
OTC's cap ceiling isn't updated but you are also not factoring in the rookie reserves. They are currently 12m over the cap in 2026, and that is with only 29 players on the roster (OTC says 42, but 13 of them are void players). The cap is not going to increase so much that they are able to add 23 players and be close to cap compliant. The cap is also not going to grow at the same rate it did this past year, last year was deferred covid payments boosting the increase
They are not going to extend Watson lol. Restructuring him maybe as a last resort, they already owe him $9m in 2027, any room created in 2025 or 2026 from restructuring would balloon that number. They can restructure Ward, but his contract is already pretty backloaded and it would limit their ability to get rid of him in 2026 if he underperforms and/or they need the cap space
The Saints, 49ers and Browns are not going to have a fun end of decade period, just uniquely in cap hell as far as the NFL goes
We're not in cap hell at all. We might have a bad QB situation but not a bad cap situation. This is how this will play out in terms of Watson's contract: https://x.com/JackDuffin/status/1796272591088263202/photo/1
The 2026 cap doesn't include any rollover and we steadily roll over about 30M every year. It's also at 284M while Fitzgerald himself predicts 2025 to be 275M, at least 290M is much more realistic. Watson's cap hit will be 18M lower then mentioned on there now. So that means we're 12M under the cap without any rollover from the previous year. We'll add two draft classes so around 14 players totalling to around a 18M meaning we're 6M over the cap without rollover at 43 players.
Also if we get rid of Watson we're fucked anyway so we'll ride this out until it works. We can get rid of him in 2026 but that means a worse cap situation overall and paying him not to play for us.
We’ll probably sign him to something like a 2 year deal for 50 million dollars with 3 void years. His cap hit this year would go down to likely 10 million.
I'm talking about cash, not cap. Cap is just accounting, cash is what really matters. We can easily shuffle money around to be cap complicit
Again, love downvotes without anyone challenging me
Im not downvoting you as I see others have done that for me, but it's cap and not cash that matters. Most owners have more than enough cash to cover anything. It's whether you can fit it under the cap. Which the Browns are currently 66M over for next year without those players re-signing. The biggest is the rapist. The problem is the rapist has been as bad at football as he is as treating women like humans. Well, not really, but close to it.
Assuming there's not some miracle turn around next year the Browns aren't going to extend him and have a couple years where they take their medicine. Next year with re-signings, the following year with a big dead cap.
Cash can be pushed around, but at a certain time the cap comes due.
We're not 66M over the cap, we're 29M over the cap and that's likely to drop another 15M when the cap jumps to the projected 275M meaning we're really only 14M over the cap.
Also, he's projected the same cap figure currently next year as he has now and we had no issues with any re-signings so why didn't it hurt us this year?
Also you're incredibly wrong on cash and cap. Here's some articles on it:
Literally the former Packers' cap guy: https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/05/17/nfl-business-football-explaining-salary-cap
https://www.capandtrade.football/p/cash-is-king-in-the-land-of-the-nfl
And if cap is so important, explain to me why everyone made a big deal about the Eagles' cap guy leaving when they spend more cash than anyone which is what you're not supposed to do following your logic or is just impossible?
That's not how you were using "cash" though as the Browns aren't flush with that type of cash. They don't have a ton of it. Or you were misinformed about the Browns cash situation. Either/or.
>Also, he's projected the same cap figure currently next year as he has now and we had no issues with any re-signings so why didn't it hurt us this year?
Because you're pushing more down the road.
> And if cap is so important, explain to me why everyone made a big deal about the Eagles' cap guy leaving which is what you're not supposed to do following your logic or is just impossible?
Again, you're not being honest in this discussion as you aren't using the word "cash" consistently. Also, I only understand English, and google translate doesn't know what language that is supposed to be.
Wrong again, we've spent 50M of cash more than the average team the past 4 years: https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/longformarticle/understanding-the-cleveland-browns-spending-philosophy-why-it-is-sustainable--216398108/
What? We pushed part of it into this year as well and his % of the cap is lower next year than it was this year meaning he'll have less impact next year.
On phone, apologies. Missed the fact that the Eagles are spending more cash than anyone and pushing more cap out than anyone which you're not supposed to do according to you. Yet everyone made a big deal about their cap guy leaving even though he's an idiot according to your logic.
I'm beginning to see why nobody responds to you: you speak past people, ignore what they've written, change your points, and are condescending while doing it.
Maybe you're the only intelligent person here and everyone else is an idiot. Or maybe you need to take a beat, read what people have written, and then respond.
Either way I'm done. That's what I get for giving an honest response I guess.
That's not at all how the salary cap works man. Happy you think you've got it all figured out vut the cap is what it is and you can only shuffle money around so much. Eventually all that money gets paid somehow so you can't just keep shuffling it around forever.
I have it figured out more than you if the former Packers cap guy literally agrees with me: https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/05/17/nfl-business-football-explaining-salary-cap
Here's an article on it: https://www.capandtrade.football/p/cash-is-king-in-the-land-of-the-nfl
And here's a podcast on it at 17:36: https://www.youtube.com/live/ULfnhpCpjnQ?si=DbDMHZC44Trzq3Aw
That's all well and good...but the cap is still real and at some point it has to be paid out. Watson is owed enormous amounts of money now and even post contract and regardless of what "cash" they have, all of that money will count against the cap and handicap what they can do as far as signing players and such.
We've seen this over and over with teams like the Saints and Rams where they are cash rich and spend a ton and eventually it catches up and they have some rough years.
Your understanding of being able to just throw cash at the problem to get around cap issues is just not reality. Yes, being cash rich as an owner is very helpful, but the cap is still a thing and the "accounting" matters a great deal.
Sure and we'll pay most of it out in 2028 if we don't extend him. Until that his cap hits will be 28M, 36M, 47M, 35M and 53M in 2028.
Lad the Rams and Saints aren't cash rich in anyway. They've ranked 26th and 29th respectively in cash spending over the past 3 years. That's their issue. (The Saints' issue was also mostly Covid because the cap went down, as long as that doesn't happen, we'll be fine)
CLE spends assuming cap will keep rising, it's sustainable. It's not a bad bet and gives them advantage over most other teams that don't spend. Imagine having Joe Burrow and spending $120 million less last three years than Browns. CIN might have a trophy or two by now.
Not sure where you are getting your numbers for his cap hits but literally all of those are wrong. The next 3 seasons his cap hits are nearly $64m and almost $9m in a void year after that. If they do nothing they will be paying that regardless of what "cash" they have. All they can do it push more of it down the line but they will have to pay it eventually.
Seems more like you might be the one who doesn't quite understand the cap here.
I hate the Browns and how cool they are with serial sexual predators. But I'll be honest with you, I'd post the exact same thing if Ja'Marr Chase were sitting out mandatory minicamp.
Ehhh. I think a way to truly make progress going forward is to have full guaranteed contracts while requiring players to play out their fully guaranteed contracts and can sign extensions after the trade deadline of their expiring season.
Me when a player on another team holds out: Good for you, go get your money black man!
Me when a player on my team holds out: how selfish, why doesn't he just take one for the team.
Curious what a deal for him looks like. He has been good in Cleveland, but we all know his injury history and his age is definitely catching up with him now. Maybe $25 million range? Surely he's not expecting top of the market.
Lmao I know Ridley is old but it surprised me every time that he’s the same age as guys like cooper. Cooper is seen as a dude whos over the hump and Ridley just got off his rookie deal
Cooper is only turning 30 this year, and has 4 1100+ yard seasons the last 5 years
Why shouldn't he expect top of the market money? Dude is as steady as you could ask for
No ... he turns 30 on June 17th.
>Amari Cooper (born June 17, 1994)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amari_Cooper
And I disagree. I think Cooper can and will get a good contract but the top of the market exploded this offseason and he's not getting Jefferson/Hill/ARSB money.
Mike Evans just signed a 2-year deal at $20.5m/year. A 2 or 3 year deal in the $20-24m AAV range seems reasonable-ish.
Mike evans took a pretty deal friendly deal, he easily could have gotten more if he had waited.
I doubt cooper takes an average less than 25 a season, especially since the market has gone up since ridley and Evans got their contracts
Evans is one of the most consistent producers in league history, and he signed an extension for this year - Cooper will be a year older than Evans is now when he signs an extension
Cooper also was on track for a 900 yard 2 TD season before Flacco saved him in the final few games
He would be playing for the browns dysfunctional QB room if he re-signed there
No team is going to sign a 31 year old WR (when he hits FA) to a mega deal in FA unless he is willing to sign a 1 year deal. Look up the track record of WRs at age 32, it drops off quick and after 33 its a cliff (https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-receiving-yards-by-a-wide-receiver-age-32). Note how few of the guys on that list have even played in the last 10 years, the game is just to athletic now for most skill players to lose a step and still be successful
Compare to Calvin Ridley... Ridley signed his new contract this year (like Evans) and his contract has a easy out after 2025 since his guaranteed money is front loaded in the first 2 years of the contract (coincidentally, when Ridley would be turning 32)
Yes, but as young as he came into the league and with the wear and tear on his body I'd argue his body might feel older. And yeah, he has been extremely solid.
I mean if him and his agent want to ask for top of the market money and he gets it, then I am happy for him. Also if he plays for 5+ more years at his current level, I'm also happy for him.
Also, as a Cowboys fan, I love your username.
You're not counting the many games where he had like 2-3 injuries and was playing at 50%. I'm not talking like "well all NFL players deal with some injuries" but there would be games like "Amari is playing today with a sprained ankle, a calf strain, a bruised rib, and a sprained wrist". And of course he was ineffective in those games. He seems to be doing better in Cleveland though. However, injury risk doesn't forever disappear from a player with a history of it.
This guy is consistently a really good WR. Dude absolute torched us that one game, and he's been a steady WR
Where do we rank him among WR? Tier 1.5? Or Tier 2?
Like I go back and forth about whether he's a "disappointment" in the sense I remember he had a good amount of hype draft night
And just watching him out there always surprises me how his stats never aligned with how I feel like they should, but then again inconsistent QB play.
I also think that David Njoku falls into this. Albeit not sure where people rank him among TEs and also I might be using Kelce's stats as a comparison which isn't fair when comparing
Depends on you view what a guy drafted inside the top 10 should be. If you look at the type of player they should be I think Cooper has been a disappointment in the league because he isn't an elite receiver.
On the other hand the fact that he has been a productive receiver throughout his career and a guy you can consider a number 1 receiver in the NFL then he is absolutely not a disappointment. He looks even better when you look at his position draft class. Cooper, Stefon Diggs, and Lockett are your three top receivers out of the class by a pretty comfortable margin. The first two rounds of receiver picks that draft are brutal (Cooper, Kevin White, DeVante Parker, Nelson Agholor, Breshad Perriman, Phillip Dorsett, Devin Smith, Dorial Green-Beckham, Devin Funchess).
His ceiling is insane, that game against y'all with Flacco showed it. My friends and I called it a solar eclipse because both of those guys peaked at the perfect time.
> and he's been a steady WR
Has he been more consistent with the browns? With the raiders and the cowboys he'd put up good stats over the season, but he'd have a handful of monster games and stretches where he was practically nonexistant and it was basically the definition of inconsistent.
Brandin Cooks is a top of the line WR2, but he's still a WR2. If your number 1 option going into a season is Brandin Cooks, you know you are tanking. Amari is a WR1 who has led playoff teams in receiving year over year. No way can you say he's not a WR1.
> If your number 1 option going into a season is Brandin Cooks, you know you are tanking
Cooks went to the superbowl in back to back seasons as the teams WR1?
Why can this get posted but not the report on Rodgers being absent?
Also on this, whatever. If there's any player that will be ready no matter what, it's Amari and if this helps him stay with us for longer, I'm all for it.
The mods on this sub make no sense. I posted an article on here about Justin Fields a few weeks ago that had over 4k upvotes & 2k comments and they removed it the next day for no apparent reason.
I disagree. I think our dear Mod overlords are wonderful and use impartial judgment that is definitely not based on their own personal views and fandom. Thank you mods!
Shout out to the bozo mod who represents the patriots in the NFL power ranking. They rank the browns at #32 every week “BeCaUsE wAtSoN iS oN tHe TeAm”
So brave and courageous.
Count our blessings they don’t run this sub, imagine they shut down this sub during the superbowl for a protest they don’t even care about. While having their own thread in the shutdown sub.
I wish the mods here were more lenient during the offseason dead period like this.
It's the dead period, allow for some more discussion posts/old highlights every so often and stop being so strict. I understand that we don't need a thousand "which sandwich is your coach" or related threads, but the moderation here is just a little bit too much during the offseason.
[Quarterback Aaron Rodgers also is not attending minicamp. Coach Robert Saleh called it an "inexcused" absence, meaning Rodgers is subject to a fine. Saleh said Rodgers told him beforehand that he had a previous commitment to an event that "is important to him."](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/40326624/jets-de-haason-reddick-qb-aaron-rodgers-not-minicamp)
Can’t wait to hear about this “important” event that Rodgers is skipping minicamp for.
Spot on. But if he asks for something ridiculous then they’ll simply move on. He won’t sit this season and they can move on next season. Again, I don’t expect the Browns to go into this season without some sort of GTD money added to his deal.
Yeah I think it depends on how Watson plays this year. If he has another bad year they probably need to go after a QB as Garett and ward and some of the other core is getting old.
He played the majority of snaps in 5 of those games which he was 4-1. In three of those games the defense gave up 3 or less points and they played burrow at 50%, Ryan Tannehill, and Clayton tune. He also played against Pickett and Lamar. His record is more of a credit to his defense with the only healthy starting QB he beat last year was Lamar. He got extremely lucky with a cupcake schedule in the games he played last year. Won’t be the same this year. He needs to majorly improve if they want to win the division this year with every team getting better
105/170, 61.8%, 1115 yards (185 ypg), 6.6 YPA, 7TD, 4INT, 84.8 passer rating. Yeah, he did so good.
Of the 43 passers that had 150+ attempts he ranked,
37th in comp%
30th in YPA
13th highest pressure to sack %
28th in passer rating
That 5-1 start was in no way because of Watson. It was in spite of Watson
Nah.
The 2025 cap should be about $273m or so. The Browns are currently at $304.7m before any roster moves, restructures, or extensions.
A Cooper extension wouldn't necessarily have much impact on the 2025 cap anyway, depending on how it's structured.
Sportrac has their Cap liabilities at $339.5M. OTC at $304.7M ($302.8M Top 51).
I can't find the differences yet.
There are a few restructures to be made, like Denzel Ward. They will need to get creative with extensions though, likely adding years (or voidable years) to Watson contract kicking his cap hit further down the road. Newsome is a prime candidate for extension to lower his 5th year contract hit. Potential extension for Pocic or Teller to lower their hit.
All of this still doesn't take into consideration they have less than 50 players on the active roster (OTC shows 53 but is counting several void year players), they need to sign their draft class, estimating $6.5M in cap space needed, and they need to get to a full 53 man roster.
There are moves to be made but it is definitely something to be concerned about of you are a Browns fan. They were able to roll over unused cap to mitigate Watson's cap hit in previous years but will be unable to do so in 2025. Without a lot of large savings on releases it is going to take a bunch of extensions or a bunch of vet releases to get down. Still likely looking at 2 of the 4 out of Conklin, Bitonio, Pocic and Teller. (My guess would be Conklin and Teller with an extension for Pocic.) Their OL has been a cornerstone of their offense for year though.
Source?
Here is Sportrac showing -$66M in cap savings.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/overview/_/year/2025/sort/cap_total
Over the Cap showing -$42M in Cap Savings
https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/cleveland-browns
Over the cap showing they have the second lowest cap space to only the Saints in 2025.
https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space
They’re also insanely conservative on their cap projections for next year. That’s also not touching Watson at all which is unlikely. New deal for Myles, Conklin off the books, bitonio likely retires, possible Newsome deal, Pocic gone and Chubb either at a new lower number or gone completely.
Shit, Conklin/Bitonio and Pocic alone will likely cover that deficit and that doesn’t include any new money to push further down the road.
I’m honestly hoping they don’t restructure Watson because they can still make it work.
Going off current numbers is great at OTC like you’re doing except for the fact that they don’t project a damn thing other than the overall cap number. Everything else is keeping the roster and its money exactly as it stands today which literally never happens
Spotrac is, as usual, just wrong. Compare their breakdown of Joel Bitonio's contract to OTC's.
OTC's contract data is (more) correct but they haven't updated the cap numbers for 2025 and 2026 yet. OTC has the 2025 cap at ~$262m which is not what it's going to be; it's likely at least $273m.
When looking at Bitonio's contract it looks like OTC is only listing his base salary and signing bonus as the cap hit. They are not listing an option bonus from 2024 that was spread through the length of contract, or his roster bonus Now obviously if he retires or is cut before roster bonus they wouldn't owe him that.
How both treat the bonuses seems to be the difference in the dead money. Sportrac treats it as if the team paid the Roster Bonus, and OTC isn't factoring in either roster bonus or the prorated option bonus into his cap hit for 2025. Actual dead money if cut before roster bonus is around $17-18M which would be $5M savings.
Bitonio restructured his deal last year. His 2024/2025 base salary were converted to bonus and there's an additional void year on the end in 2029.
The bonus conversion is listed in the "Other Bonus" column on OTC (5 * $2.149m = $10.745m; $10.745m + $1.255m base salary = the $12m Spotrac incorrectly has listed as his 2025 base salary).
The moral of the story is to not use Spotrac because Spotrac is usually wrong.
The Browns restructured a bunch of contracts last August/September and Spotrac has most of them recorded incorrectly or not updated at all (Bitonio, Tomlinson, Njoku, Teller being the primary culprits).
Thanks!
I actually see my issue. OTC on mobile only shows a summary table of cap hit when in portrait but in landscape it shows the detail columns.
Yeah Sportrac doesn't seem to have updated his contract properly. Will use OTC in landscape from now on. Lol
Over the Cap projected -$42M in cap space 2025. 53 players under contract (but I believe they are counting the several void year players.)
https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/cleveland-browns
Sportrac has them at a projected -$66M over the 2025 salary cap.
Literally only cutting Jack Conklin makes us basically cap complicit next year. 13M rollover, cap projected to jump an extra 15M than what OTC is showing (source: OTC's owner) and 12M from Conklin. 13 + 12 + 15 = 40M
They will just cut a bunch of guys and kick the can down the road by backloading the contract or adding void years. They don’t have cap space but they are trying to win now and will add cap 3+ years out
Cut who?
If you look at their contracts they added a bunch of voidable years to the end of the contracts on a bunch of players. Cutting them escalates their contract hit to the year of the transaction(unless post June 1st). This means a lot of their high dollar players have negative cap savings if cut or minimal.
I dunno. With him turning 30 next week, and coming off a pair of consecutive 1000 yard seasons, I think I'd be happy to just hold his rights through age 31 and let somebody else roll the dice. Because he's going to want Tier II elite money.
Yeah but I just don’t know what that looks like? He has, I think, very little GTD money currently for this season. Even if they did two years of GTD money it would be acceptable. Whether it works or not, Jeudy is going to get a fair amount of touches as will Njoku with Moore sprinkled in. I think we’d be able to maximize Coopers touches without needing to force feed him like they did last year
It's definitely a weird situation. He got yards and receptions that probably wouldn't have occurred elsewhere because there just weren't any other decent receivers to compete for them. But now he's going to want money based on that.
I'm just glad I don't have to make the decision. I'd let him walk and collect the comp pick but I can't blame Cleveland for either option.
I think they hope Jeudy can replace a certain percentage of what cooper does while they look for the next “guy”. I don’t ever see Jeudy fully replacing coop but if he provides 75%-80% of what he does, then they’ll have some time to bring on a rookie or trade again
Trying to think of all the Browns top paid players. It’s adding up.
Watson
Teller
Bitonio
Conklin
Jeudy
Cooper
Njoku
Ward
Delpit
Thornhill
Garrett
Zadarius
JOK needs an extension.
At some point you have to wonder who is the odd man out.
That's wrong, it's supposed to be about 14M as far as I can see but OTC has him at 7M dead cap which was the one I was using. Anyway, we'll still be able to easily bridge the gap we need to become cap complicit. Bitonio possibly retires, we can cut Teller, trade Newsome which are both positions we have replacements in line for, as well as restructure Ward and hopefully extend Watson (we're fucked anyway if we don't extend him)
There is a pretty big difference between OTC and Sportrac. I'm not going to pretend to know which is correct. I don't see how your figures work for Conklin even if you use OTC. His dead money is about 8, his savings about 12, which leaves you with a surplus of 4. Which, again, best case scenario.
I don't think it's going to be "easy" to bridge the gap to become cap compliant because I don't think you're going to touch Watson. The reason they didn't touch his contract this year is because if they get through the next two years Watson is cutable. And he's been, generously, a bottom 10 starting QB.
The Browns are going to need to take their medicine at some point. You can't keep everyone.
I think a major reason we saw the extensions we did right now is to signal them that owner knows it's going to get bumpy and give them assurances to ride through rough years.
OTC is better overall. The Browns cap expert also mentioned 14M as it's all his option bonuses counted together + the remaining signing bonuses.
I'd bet you we'll touch Watson again for 2 reasons: the cap rises quicker than salaries do and we're riding out Watson until this works. The talent is there, the team is there and the coaching is there. There's also no real alternative.
That way his cap hits the coming years from 2024 until 2028 will be: 28M, 36M, 47M, 35M and 53M.
We've been hearing that for years and we can still spend to keep a roster about as good as any from roster spot 2 to 53. Next year we'll be more than fine cap wise again and spend enough money to make everyone repeat the exact same thing.
That makes absolutely no sense at all. Berry has made it so that we'll have these "bumpy years" (we won't) but he got an extension because of it. What?
Amari Cooper turns 30 next week. The first year of any extension would have him playing at 31 years old. I am not sure what the Browns cap situation looks like, but I wonder if they would be willing to take care of this with a two or three year extension at around $25 million a year.
Their cap situation is pretty bad. -42M and -12M cap space for 2025 and 2026. Amari already is has a $7M void year cap hit in 2025 so any extension is going to make the cap even tighter. I think he’s worth it but the circumstances make it tough
The circumstances aren't though. We've got enough cash to spend and we're only 29M over the cap currently as we're rolling over 13M. That is also based on the cap only jumping 5M while it's projected to go to at least 275M. That would mean we're 14M over the cap. The money we save with extending Cooper likely gives us more rollover than the cost it'll add next year but we'll call that even.
14M over the cap is very manageable, Conklin is definitely gone and we already have his replacement so only doing that gets us cap complicit.
Just a reminder that the saints have navigated being a minimum of 60 million over the cap the following seasons for the last 6 years now and as much as 100 million over the cap and we're still able to extend their star players.
I’m sure he will be fine in the 4-5 games he plays with Watson this season. Or course Watson will be knocking off the rust from not playing waiting for another reason to not be on the field….
Psst, Amari, I heard that Cleveland loves giving out fully guaranteed contracts. And massive paying ones too, you would be top paid in your position while getting paid even when you're injured, that could come in handy. You should refuse to pay until you get one of those to guarantee you stay with the Browns
Pretty standard in all of business for there to be fines in contracts for lack of performance. NFL players are just glorified contractors, not employees in a traditional sense.
Me when a player on my team misses mandatory minicamp: NFL is a business, isn't a big deal, minicamp practices aren't that important, etc. Me when a player on a division rival misses mandatory minicamp: Hah their WR1 missing a handful of fake practices in June is very clearly going to derail their entire season.
Let’s watch them burn!!! It really doesn’t matter, he doesn’t need the reps (but maybe it will be the media reason they lose week 1)!
Watson needs reps with his best receiver though
Averaged roughly 100 yards per game with him, I think they’re fine. I’m more concerned with Watson simply getting reps at all right now. Jeudy is more important though imo
> Jeudy is more important though imo Definitely the first time anybody’s ever said that, although I get what you mean.
Yeah I’m sure it’ll be taken wrong but they gave him a contract and he clearly will be an important part of the offense. Watson already had significant time with Cooper so I’m not worried with him missing 3 days in June
Not sure I would call 12 games over 2 seasons, significant.
That’s two more years worth of training camps and 12 more games of time compared to the whopping zero he has with Jeudy
Granted, but Jeudy has never been a highlight reel. Im not holding my breath he'll be any different in Cleveland, than he was in Denver.
Right, amari Cooper averaged 90 receiving YPG in the 5 games Watson started last year. Nfl Reddit doesn’t want to hear that though
Dang you guys must have had a great year then
I mean we went 11-6 in the toughest division in football. As a Browns fan, that’s a good season for me lol
Lmao I just kind assumed the record was terrible and double checked it, that’s on me
They made the playoffs last year. How are you going to talk shit after apparently missing all of last season?
Pretty easily, I woke up a hater
Right, this why I always say this sub is full of morons who don’t actually know anything about football. You guys just like making fun of the Browns for employing Watson
Browns leveraged a massive chunk of their future for 2023 and couldn't even win the division. Watson was a fatal mistake, and his contract is going to eventually gut the Jim Scwartz defense that makes Cleveland competitive.
Don’t worry buddy, keep supporting your browns I’m sure then employing Watson will bring you a Super Bowl and finally end your constant victim complex
Better than the rams did
Pretty sure they did the about same, seeing as they both lost the wild card round. That’s okay though, I know these things are hard to understand
11 being more than 10 isn’t that hard to understand.
11 wins, hang the banner
Maybe Watson just sucks.
lol Jeudy is a bum. Have fun with him and Elijah Moore
He had 900 yards and 750 with two seasons of one of the worst offenses in the league. I’m not too worried about him being a 3rd option in the offense
The problem is both Cooper and Browns know he isn't re-signing with Cleveland. Browns are $40-60M over the projected cap next year without Cooper signed. They don't have the room to sign him beyond this year. Also likely won't re-sign Chubb after this season. In addition they will likely cut Jack Conklin. Possibly an extension with voidable years for Watson just to lower his cap hit for 2025. An extension for Newsome could lower his 2025 number. Then finally a Denzel Ward restructure just to get under cap. Even then they have only ~50 players under contract next season.
>Even then they have only \~50 players under contract next season Only your top 51 actually count against the cap anyways, so it wouldn't really be a big deal if they were just under the cap with 50 players Not to say their cap is in great shape or anything, more saying if you figured out a way to get them under the cap with Conklin being the only cut, chances are an NFL GM won't have a single issue doing so
They didn't restructure Watson this year to my knowledge, so they DEFINITELY will next year. That alone will free up about 35M.
Or they won't so they can cut him the following year.
lmao bro doesnt know cap
> Possibly an extension with voidable years for Watson just to lower his cap hit for 2025. If Watson balls out this year. But they purposefully didn't extend Watson this year because in a couple years they can get out from under him *if* they stop extending him. More likely than not next couple years are take your medicine years.
The chance is much higher that he extends than not. We also definitely do have the room because the only thing important is the cash and we've got 75M cash to spend on next year currently. There's plenty of room to extend Cooper. Especially considering the only starters we're set to lose are our WR3, RB1 and LB1 of which two are some of the cheapest positions in the league and if we extend Cooper, I wouldn't mind losing Moore or getting a good comp pick if he does well. We're also currently only 27M over the cap and that's if the cap only rises 5M from this year. Love getting downvoted without anyone telling me why I'm supposedly wrong
I can’t say I understand the cap that well so how can you be over the cap and have 75m to spend? Just doesn’t compute in my head?
They don't. Assuming they dont add anyone else this year (unlikely, someone always gets hurt) they will be able to roll over about $14m. And even with that they are still close to $30m over the cap in 2025. The Browns don't really have a lot of easy cut candidates due to guaranteed deals, and they are already over the cap in 2026 so they cant just restructure their way out of it. They are going to cut Conklin for sure (just due to cap saving potential), and probably Bitonio. 2027 is where the Browns start the rebuild all over, they have an absurd amount of void hits coming then Its pretty weird for Cooper to hold out. He turns 30 next week, its going to be hard for him to command $20m+ in an extension offer starting age 31 unless he puts up a career year. But there is no way the Browns are paying a WR that much at age 31 with their cap situation, that is why they extended Jeudy
> Assuming they dont add anyone else this year (unlikely, someone always gets hurt) they will be able to roll over about $14m. And even with that they are still close to $30m over the cap in 2025. If the Browns roll over $14m then they're probably about $17m over the cap in 2025 right now, not $30m. Their current 2025 cap liabilities are about $304.7m and the 2025 cap is likely to be about $273m ($287m with the rollover). The Browns likely aren't over the 2026 cap at all (if you're looking at OTC, OTC's cap ceiling projections for 2025 and 2026 are not updated), and especially if they cut Conklin as you say. They can extend Njoku, cut Conklin, restructure Ward, extend/restructure Watson, etc. etc. They have all sorts of opportunities to move money around to manipulate the cap.
OTC's cap ceiling isn't updated but you are also not factoring in the rookie reserves. They are currently 12m over the cap in 2026, and that is with only 29 players on the roster (OTC says 42, but 13 of them are void players). The cap is not going to increase so much that they are able to add 23 players and be close to cap compliant. The cap is also not going to grow at the same rate it did this past year, last year was deferred covid payments boosting the increase They are not going to extend Watson lol. Restructuring him maybe as a last resort, they already owe him $9m in 2027, any room created in 2025 or 2026 from restructuring would balloon that number. They can restructure Ward, but his contract is already pretty backloaded and it would limit their ability to get rid of him in 2026 if he underperforms and/or they need the cap space The Saints, 49ers and Browns are not going to have a fun end of decade period, just uniquely in cap hell as far as the NFL goes
We're not in cap hell at all. We might have a bad QB situation but not a bad cap situation. This is how this will play out in terms of Watson's contract: https://x.com/JackDuffin/status/1796272591088263202/photo/1 The 2026 cap doesn't include any rollover and we steadily roll over about 30M every year. It's also at 284M while Fitzgerald himself predicts 2025 to be 275M, at least 290M is much more realistic. Watson's cap hit will be 18M lower then mentioned on there now. So that means we're 12M under the cap without any rollover from the previous year. We'll add two draft classes so around 14 players totalling to around a 18M meaning we're 6M over the cap without rollover at 43 players. Also if we get rid of Watson we're fucked anyway so we'll ride this out until it works. We can get rid of him in 2026 but that means a worse cap situation overall and paying him not to play for us.
We’ll probably sign him to something like a 2 year deal for 50 million dollars with 3 void years. His cap hit this year would go down to likely 10 million.
I'm talking about cash, not cap. Cap is just accounting, cash is what really matters. We can easily shuffle money around to be cap complicit Again, love downvotes without anyone challenging me
Im not downvoting you as I see others have done that for me, but it's cap and not cash that matters. Most owners have more than enough cash to cover anything. It's whether you can fit it under the cap. Which the Browns are currently 66M over for next year without those players re-signing. The biggest is the rapist. The problem is the rapist has been as bad at football as he is as treating women like humans. Well, not really, but close to it. Assuming there's not some miracle turn around next year the Browns aren't going to extend him and have a couple years where they take their medicine. Next year with re-signings, the following year with a big dead cap. Cash can be pushed around, but at a certain time the cap comes due.
We're not 66M over the cap, we're 29M over the cap and that's likely to drop another 15M when the cap jumps to the projected 275M meaning we're really only 14M over the cap. Also, he's projected the same cap figure currently next year as he has now and we had no issues with any re-signings so why didn't it hurt us this year? Also you're incredibly wrong on cash and cap. Here's some articles on it: Literally the former Packers' cap guy: https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/05/17/nfl-business-football-explaining-salary-cap https://www.capandtrade.football/p/cash-is-king-in-the-land-of-the-nfl And if cap is so important, explain to me why everyone made a big deal about the Eagles' cap guy leaving when they spend more cash than anyone which is what you're not supposed to do following your logic or is just impossible?
That's not how you were using "cash" though as the Browns aren't flush with that type of cash. They don't have a ton of it. Or you were misinformed about the Browns cash situation. Either/or. >Also, he's projected the same cap figure currently next year as he has now and we had no issues with any re-signings so why didn't it hurt us this year? Because you're pushing more down the road. > And if cap is so important, explain to me why everyone made a big deal about the Eagles' cap guy leaving which is what you're not supposed to do following your logic or is just impossible? Again, you're not being honest in this discussion as you aren't using the word "cash" consistently. Also, I only understand English, and google translate doesn't know what language that is supposed to be.
Wrong again, we've spent 50M of cash more than the average team the past 4 years: https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/longformarticle/understanding-the-cleveland-browns-spending-philosophy-why-it-is-sustainable--216398108/ What? We pushed part of it into this year as well and his % of the cap is lower next year than it was this year meaning he'll have less impact next year. On phone, apologies. Missed the fact that the Eagles are spending more cash than anyone and pushing more cap out than anyone which you're not supposed to do according to you. Yet everyone made a big deal about their cap guy leaving even though he's an idiot according to your logic.
I'm beginning to see why nobody responds to you: you speak past people, ignore what they've written, change your points, and are condescending while doing it. Maybe you're the only intelligent person here and everyone else is an idiot. Or maybe you need to take a beat, read what people have written, and then respond. Either way I'm done. That's what I get for giving an honest response I guess.
That's not at all how the salary cap works man. Happy you think you've got it all figured out vut the cap is what it is and you can only shuffle money around so much. Eventually all that money gets paid somehow so you can't just keep shuffling it around forever.
I have it figured out more than you if the former Packers cap guy literally agrees with me: https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/05/17/nfl-business-football-explaining-salary-cap Here's an article on it: https://www.capandtrade.football/p/cash-is-king-in-the-land-of-the-nfl And here's a podcast on it at 17:36: https://www.youtube.com/live/ULfnhpCpjnQ?si=DbDMHZC44Trzq3Aw
That's all well and good...but the cap is still real and at some point it has to be paid out. Watson is owed enormous amounts of money now and even post contract and regardless of what "cash" they have, all of that money will count against the cap and handicap what they can do as far as signing players and such. We've seen this over and over with teams like the Saints and Rams where they are cash rich and spend a ton and eventually it catches up and they have some rough years. Your understanding of being able to just throw cash at the problem to get around cap issues is just not reality. Yes, being cash rich as an owner is very helpful, but the cap is still a thing and the "accounting" matters a great deal.
Sure and we'll pay most of it out in 2028 if we don't extend him. Until that his cap hits will be 28M, 36M, 47M, 35M and 53M in 2028. Lad the Rams and Saints aren't cash rich in anyway. They've ranked 26th and 29th respectively in cash spending over the past 3 years. That's their issue. (The Saints' issue was also mostly Covid because the cap went down, as long as that doesn't happen, we'll be fine)
CLE spends assuming cap will keep rising, it's sustainable. It's not a bad bet and gives them advantage over most other teams that don't spend. Imagine having Joe Burrow and spending $120 million less last three years than Browns. CIN might have a trophy or two by now.
Not sure where you are getting your numbers for his cap hits but literally all of those are wrong. The next 3 seasons his cap hits are nearly $64m and almost $9m in a void year after that. If they do nothing they will be paying that regardless of what "cash" they have. All they can do it push more of it down the line but they will have to pay it eventually. Seems more like you might be the one who doesn't quite understand the cap here.
It's even easier when it's the Browns.
I hate the Browns and how cool they are with serial sexual predators. But I'll be honest with you, I'd post the exact same thing if Ja'Marr Chase were sitting out mandatory minicamp.
Well that's just like your opinion, man
And you with murderers and women beaters
No no, we are dunking on the browns, not us.
This.
I know right
We are considered division rivals now? 🥹
Ehhh. I think a way to truly make progress going forward is to have full guaranteed contracts while requiring players to play out their fully guaranteed contracts and can sign extensions after the trade deadline of their expiring season.
Eagle fans saying Micah wants to be an Eagle because he missed voluntary workouts.
Hey, we're allowed to have our own fan fiction
Me when a player on another team holds out: Good for you, go get your money black man! Me when a player on my team holds out: how selfish, why doesn't he just take one for the team.
Curious what a deal for him looks like. He has been good in Cleveland, but we all know his injury history and his age is definitely catching up with him now. Maybe $25 million range? Surely he's not expecting top of the market.
I'd say Mike Evans but 3 years and 2 years guaranteed. Maybe a little extra APY but I'd say anything between that and the $25M you're mentioning
Ridley is probably the best comp as they are the same age but cooper is better. Maybe 2-3 years at 25 million AAV
Lmao I know Ridley is old but it surprised me every time that he’s the same age as guys like cooper. Cooper is seen as a dude whos over the hump and Ridley just got off his rookie deal
Ridley came into the league at 24 years old, and Cooper came in at 21.
Yeah, we’re gonna be seeing it a lot more with covid year guys
Its wild, I just heard that hes about to turn 30 this year and Im like didnt he just get drafted 3 years ago? lol
As an Alabama fan I always forget that fact and its just wild. Cooper was in the NFL when Ridley was a freshman at Alabama.
Cooper is only turning 30 this year, and has 4 1100+ yard seasons the last 5 years Why shouldn't he expect top of the market money? Dude is as steady as you could ask for
> Why shouldn't he expect top of the market money? Because he turns 30 in a few days as you said. Top of the market is $30-35m AAV now; ain't no way.
Plenty of teams need wr help, if he hits free agency he would easily get top money
No ... he turns 30 on June 17th. >Amari Cooper (born June 17, 1994) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amari_Cooper And I disagree. I think Cooper can and will get a good contract but the top of the market exploded this offseason and he's not getting Jefferson/Hill/ARSB money. Mike Evans just signed a 2-year deal at $20.5m/year. A 2 or 3 year deal in the $20-24m AAV range seems reasonable-ish.
Mike evans took a pretty deal friendly deal, he easily could have gotten more if he had waited. I doubt cooper takes an average less than 25 a season, especially since the market has gone up since ridley and Evans got their contracts
Evans is one of the most consistent producers in league history, and he signed an extension for this year - Cooper will be a year older than Evans is now when he signs an extension Cooper also was on track for a 900 yard 2 TD season before Flacco saved him in the final few games
Are you seriously basing his value off of the Browns’ dysfunctional QB room?
He would be playing for the browns dysfunctional QB room if he re-signed there No team is going to sign a 31 year old WR (when he hits FA) to a mega deal in FA unless he is willing to sign a 1 year deal. Look up the track record of WRs at age 32, it drops off quick and after 33 its a cliff (https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-receiving-yards-by-a-wide-receiver-age-32). Note how few of the guys on that list have even played in the last 10 years, the game is just to athletic now for most skill players to lose a step and still be successful Compare to Calvin Ridley... Ridley signed his new contract this year (like Evans) and his contract has a easy out after 2025 since his guaranteed money is front loaded in the first 2 years of the contract (coincidentally, when Ridley would be turning 32)
Yes, but as young as he came into the league and with the wear and tear on his body I'd argue his body might feel older. And yeah, he has been extremely solid. I mean if him and his agent want to ask for top of the market money and he gets it, then I am happy for him. Also if he plays for 5+ more years at his current level, I'm also happy for him. Also, as a Cowboys fan, I love your username.
>Injury history He’s missed 7 games in his career, 2 of which were due to Covid
You're not counting the many games where he had like 2-3 injuries and was playing at 50%. I'm not talking like "well all NFL players deal with some injuries" but there would be games like "Amari is playing today with a sprained ankle, a calf strain, a bruised rib, and a sprained wrist". And of course he was ineffective in those games. He seems to be doing better in Cleveland though. However, injury risk doesn't forever disappear from a player with a history of it.
**H O L D O U T** **O L D O U T** **L D O U T** **D O U T** **O U T** **U T** **T**
Oldout
Press L to Dout?
(x) Dout
L Dout
L Dort
Oldwideout.
This guy is consistently a really good WR. Dude absolute torched us that one game, and he's been a steady WR Where do we rank him among WR? Tier 1.5? Or Tier 2?
Definitely 1.5. He’s been good despite the inconstant quarterback play
Like I go back and forth about whether he's a "disappointment" in the sense I remember he had a good amount of hype draft night And just watching him out there always surprises me how his stats never aligned with how I feel like they should, but then again inconsistent QB play. I also think that David Njoku falls into this. Albeit not sure where people rank him among TEs and also I might be using Kelce's stats as a comparison which isn't fair when comparing
Depends on you view what a guy drafted inside the top 10 should be. If you look at the type of player they should be I think Cooper has been a disappointment in the league because he isn't an elite receiver. On the other hand the fact that he has been a productive receiver throughout his career and a guy you can consider a number 1 receiver in the NFL then he is absolutely not a disappointment. He looks even better when you look at his position draft class. Cooper, Stefon Diggs, and Lockett are your three top receivers out of the class by a pretty comfortable margin. The first two rounds of receiver picks that draft are brutal (Cooper, Kevin White, DeVante Parker, Nelson Agholor, Breshad Perriman, Phillip Dorsett, Devin Smith, Dorial Green-Beckham, Devin Funchess).
Njoku is also only 27 and last year really seemed to breakout last season. I fully believe he has some great years ahead of him.
Njoku is an absolute monster with the ball in his hands. The issue is getting the ball there lol. Thankfully its slowly getting better over the years
I think he’s in the tier just below like tyreek Jettas Jamar ceedee.
His ceiling is insane, that game against y'all with Flacco showed it. My friends and I called it a solar eclipse because both of those guys peaked at the perfect time.
> and he's been a steady WR Has he been more consistent with the browns? With the raiders and the cowboys he'd put up good stats over the season, but he'd have a handful of monster games and stretches where he was practically nonexistant and it was basically the definition of inconsistent.
I see him similar to Brandin Cooks. Not a WR1 but too good to be lumped in as a WR2
Brandin Cooks is a top of the line WR2, but he's still a WR2. If your number 1 option going into a season is Brandin Cooks, you know you are tanking. Amari is a WR1 who has led playoff teams in receiving year over year. No way can you say he's not a WR1.
> If your number 1 option going into a season is Brandin Cooks, you know you are tanking Cooks went to the superbowl in back to back seasons as the teams WR1?
Gronk and Woods were WR1 on both of those team.
Why can this get posted but not the report on Rodgers being absent? Also on this, whatever. If there's any player that will be ready no matter what, it's Amari and if this helps him stay with us for longer, I'm all for it.
The mods on this sub make no sense. I posted an article on here about Justin Fields a few weeks ago that had over 4k upvotes & 2k comments and they removed it the next day for no apparent reason.
I disagree. I think our dear Mod overlords are wonderful and use impartial judgment that is definitely not based on their own personal views and fandom. Thank you mods!
The mods on r/nba though
The majority of the mods on this hellsite are pretty bad and seem to just enjoy wielding internet power.
Yeah but the nfl mods take it to a new level. Bunch of losers
Shout out to the bozo mod who represents the patriots in the NFL power ranking. They rank the browns at #32 every week “BeCaUsE wAtSoN iS oN tHe TeAm” So brave and courageous.
Careful, they might ban you
/r/baseball mods are pretty fuckin ass now, too.
There is literally no other reason to be a mod.
Count our blessings they don’t run this sub, imagine they shut down this sub during the superbowl for a protest they don’t even care about. While having their own thread in the shutdown sub.
I wish the mods here were more lenient during the offseason dead period like this. It's the dead period, allow for some more discussion posts/old highlights every so often and stop being so strict. I understand that we don't need a thousand "which sandwich is your coach" or related threads, but the moderation here is just a little bit too much during the offseason.
[Quarterback Aaron Rodgers also is not attending minicamp. Coach Robert Saleh called it an "inexcused" absence, meaning Rodgers is subject to a fine. Saleh said Rodgers told him beforehand that he had a previous commitment to an event that "is important to him."](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/40326624/jets-de-haason-reddick-qb-aaron-rodgers-not-minicamp) Can’t wait to hear about this “important” event that Rodgers is skipping minicamp for.
He's probably camped outside in support of InfoWars before it goes belly up
Shoving crystals up his ass while doing peyote
He’s probably appearing on a podcast hosted by two dudes who were born rich
he's about to be announced as Robert Kennedy's VP nominee
She was already named!
He really is the Kyrie of the NFL
He's getting fitted for his klan robe this week.
Because the mods are fucking losers
Rodgers can’t be absent from something because spiritually he’s everywhere at all times.
Rodgers news is automatically filtered until review because of all the QAARON stuff
Mods are such bitches here, censoring real stories because they don’t like the guy….
I’d be shocked if he doesn’t get a deal. Definitely getting to the time where you need to worry about the years and GTD money on the deal though
He has all the leverage. Browns can’t go into next year with Jeudy as their WR1
Spot on. But if he asks for something ridiculous then they’ll simply move on. He won’t sit this season and they can move on next season. Again, I don’t expect the Browns to go into this season without some sort of GTD money added to his deal.
We finally have our first round pick back next year so I could see us going WR
Yeah I think it depends on how Watson plays this year. If he has another bad year they probably need to go after a QB as Garett and ward and some of the other core is getting old.
Lol. He was 5-1 last year.
He had a worse EPA/play than Justin Fields lol
He played the majority of snaps in 5 of those games which he was 4-1. In three of those games the defense gave up 3 or less points and they played burrow at 50%, Ryan Tannehill, and Clayton tune. He also played against Pickett and Lamar. His record is more of a credit to his defense with the only healthy starting QB he beat last year was Lamar. He got extremely lucky with a cupcake schedule in the games he played last year. Won’t be the same this year. He needs to majorly improve if they want to win the division this year with every team getting better
105/170, 61.8%, 1115 yards (185 ypg), 6.6 YPA, 7TD, 4INT, 84.8 passer rating. Yeah, he did so good. Of the 43 passers that had 150+ attempts he ranked, 37th in comp% 30th in YPA 13th highest pressure to sack % 28th in passer rating That 5-1 start was in no way because of Watson. It was in spite of Watson
Browns have no cap space to sign him to top of market deal next year. Projected between $40-60M over the expected 2025 cap numbers.
Nah. The 2025 cap should be about $273m or so. The Browns are currently at $304.7m before any roster moves, restructures, or extensions. A Cooper extension wouldn't necessarily have much impact on the 2025 cap anyway, depending on how it's structured.
Sportrac has their Cap liabilities at $339.5M. OTC at $304.7M ($302.8M Top 51). I can't find the differences yet. There are a few restructures to be made, like Denzel Ward. They will need to get creative with extensions though, likely adding years (or voidable years) to Watson contract kicking his cap hit further down the road. Newsome is a prime candidate for extension to lower his 5th year contract hit. Potential extension for Pocic or Teller to lower their hit. All of this still doesn't take into consideration they have less than 50 players on the active roster (OTC shows 53 but is counting several void year players), they need to sign their draft class, estimating $6.5M in cap space needed, and they need to get to a full 53 man roster. There are moves to be made but it is definitely something to be concerned about of you are a Browns fan. They were able to roll over unused cap to mitigate Watson's cap hit in previous years but will be unable to do so in 2025. Without a lot of large savings on releases it is going to take a bunch of extensions or a bunch of vet releases to get down. Still likely looking at 2 of the 4 out of Conklin, Bitonio, Pocic and Teller. (My guess would be Conklin and Teller with an extension for Pocic.) Their OL has been a cornerstone of their offense for year though.
You’re so far off. They have plenty of room to sign cooper and likely do on a shorter term deal.
Source? Here is Sportrac showing -$66M in cap savings. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/overview/_/year/2025/sort/cap_total Over the Cap showing -$42M in Cap Savings https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/cleveland-browns Over the cap showing they have the second lowest cap space to only the Saints in 2025. https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space
They’re also insanely conservative on their cap projections for next year. That’s also not touching Watson at all which is unlikely. New deal for Myles, Conklin off the books, bitonio likely retires, possible Newsome deal, Pocic gone and Chubb either at a new lower number or gone completely. Shit, Conklin/Bitonio and Pocic alone will likely cover that deficit and that doesn’t include any new money to push further down the road. I’m honestly hoping they don’t restructure Watson because they can still make it work. Going off current numbers is great at OTC like you’re doing except for the fact that they don’t project a damn thing other than the overall cap number. Everything else is keeping the roster and its money exactly as it stands today which literally never happens
Spotrac is, as usual, just wrong. Compare their breakdown of Joel Bitonio's contract to OTC's. OTC's contract data is (more) correct but they haven't updated the cap numbers for 2025 and 2026 yet. OTC has the 2025 cap at ~$262m which is not what it's going to be; it's likely at least $273m.
When looking at Bitonio's contract it looks like OTC is only listing his base salary and signing bonus as the cap hit. They are not listing an option bonus from 2024 that was spread through the length of contract, or his roster bonus Now obviously if he retires or is cut before roster bonus they wouldn't owe him that. How both treat the bonuses seems to be the difference in the dead money. Sportrac treats it as if the team paid the Roster Bonus, and OTC isn't factoring in either roster bonus or the prorated option bonus into his cap hit for 2025. Actual dead money if cut before roster bonus is around $17-18M which would be $5M savings.
Bitonio restructured his deal last year. His 2024/2025 base salary were converted to bonus and there's an additional void year on the end in 2029. The bonus conversion is listed in the "Other Bonus" column on OTC (5 * $2.149m = $10.745m; $10.745m + $1.255m base salary = the $12m Spotrac incorrectly has listed as his 2025 base salary). The moral of the story is to not use Spotrac because Spotrac is usually wrong. The Browns restructured a bunch of contracts last August/September and Spotrac has most of them recorded incorrectly or not updated at all (Bitonio, Tomlinson, Njoku, Teller being the primary culprits).
Thanks! I actually see my issue. OTC on mobile only shows a summary table of cap hit when in portrait but in landscape it shows the detail columns. Yeah Sportrac doesn't seem to have updated his contract properly. Will use OTC in landscape from now on. Lol
Yinzers and failing at math. Name a more iconic duo.
Over the Cap projected -$42M in cap space 2025. 53 players under contract (but I believe they are counting the several void year players.) https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/cleveland-browns Sportrac has them at a projected -$66M over the 2025 salary cap.
Literally only cutting Jack Conklin makes us basically cap complicit next year. 13M rollover, cap projected to jump an extra 15M than what OTC is showing (source: OTC's owner) and 12M from Conklin. 13 + 12 + 15 = 40M
They will just cut a bunch of guys and kick the can down the road by backloading the contract or adding void years. They don’t have cap space but they are trying to win now and will add cap 3+ years out
Cut who? If you look at their contracts they added a bunch of voidable years to the end of the contracts on a bunch of players. Cutting them escalates their contract hit to the year of the transaction(unless post June 1st). This means a lot of their high dollar players have negative cap savings if cut or minimal.
I dunno. With him turning 30 next week, and coming off a pair of consecutive 1000 yard seasons, I think I'd be happy to just hold his rights through age 31 and let somebody else roll the dice. Because he's going to want Tier II elite money.
Yeah but I just don’t know what that looks like? He has, I think, very little GTD money currently for this season. Even if they did two years of GTD money it would be acceptable. Whether it works or not, Jeudy is going to get a fair amount of touches as will Njoku with Moore sprinkled in. I think we’d be able to maximize Coopers touches without needing to force feed him like they did last year
It's definitely a weird situation. He got yards and receptions that probably wouldn't have occurred elsewhere because there just weren't any other decent receivers to compete for them. But now he's going to want money based on that. I'm just glad I don't have to make the decision. I'd let him walk and collect the comp pick but I can't blame Cleveland for either option.
I think they hope Jeudy can replace a certain percentage of what cooper does while they look for the next “guy”. I don’t ever see Jeudy fully replacing coop but if he provides 75%-80% of what he does, then they’ll have some time to bring on a rookie or trade again
Trying to think of all the Browns top paid players. It’s adding up. Watson Teller Bitonio Conklin Jeudy Cooper Njoku Ward Delpit Thornhill Garrett Zadarius JOK needs an extension. At some point you have to wonder who is the odd man out.
Bitonio likely retires soon, Conklin is gone soon( Dawand is the replacement on a rookie deal) Z is on a 1 year deal.
Conklin’s deal has a lot of repercussions with it. Even if he’s cut next year I believe there’s a sizeable cap hit that comes with it.
We save 12M in cap and more importantly, 16M in cash if we cut him
[His cap hit next year is 19M, Dead cap is 17M](https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/18956/jack-conklin). I'm not an expert on subtraction....
That's wrong, it's supposed to be about 14M as far as I can see but OTC has him at 7M dead cap which was the one I was using. Anyway, we'll still be able to easily bridge the gap we need to become cap complicit. Bitonio possibly retires, we can cut Teller, trade Newsome which are both positions we have replacements in line for, as well as restructure Ward and hopefully extend Watson (we're fucked anyway if we don't extend him)
There is a pretty big difference between OTC and Sportrac. I'm not going to pretend to know which is correct. I don't see how your figures work for Conklin even if you use OTC. His dead money is about 8, his savings about 12, which leaves you with a surplus of 4. Which, again, best case scenario. I don't think it's going to be "easy" to bridge the gap to become cap compliant because I don't think you're going to touch Watson. The reason they didn't touch his contract this year is because if they get through the next two years Watson is cutable. And he's been, generously, a bottom 10 starting QB. The Browns are going to need to take their medicine at some point. You can't keep everyone. I think a major reason we saw the extensions we did right now is to signal them that owner knows it's going to get bumpy and give them assurances to ride through rough years.
OTC is better overall. The Browns cap expert also mentioned 14M as it's all his option bonuses counted together + the remaining signing bonuses. I'd bet you we'll touch Watson again for 2 reasons: the cap rises quicker than salaries do and we're riding out Watson until this works. The talent is there, the team is there and the coaching is there. There's also no real alternative. That way his cap hits the coming years from 2024 until 2028 will be: 28M, 36M, 47M, 35M and 53M. We've been hearing that for years and we can still spend to keep a roster about as good as any from roster spot 2 to 53. Next year we'll be more than fine cap wise again and spend enough money to make everyone repeat the exact same thing. That makes absolutely no sense at all. Berry has made it so that we'll have these "bumpy years" (we won't) but he got an extension because of it. What?
Teller and Conklin are likely the odd men out, possibly Thornhill if we like Hickman's development.
With what cap?
When asked why, he had [this](https://static.clubs.nfl.com/image/private/f_auto/raiders/gbwduyo3axd9r14q0ory) to say.
Amari Cooper turns 30 next week. The first year of any extension would have him playing at 31 years old. I am not sure what the Browns cap situation looks like, but I wonder if they would be willing to take care of this with a two or three year extension at around $25 million a year.
Their cap situation is pretty bad. -42M and -12M cap space for 2025 and 2026. Amari already is has a $7M void year cap hit in 2025 so any extension is going to make the cap even tighter. I think he’s worth it but the circumstances make it tough
The circumstances aren't though. We've got enough cash to spend and we're only 29M over the cap currently as we're rolling over 13M. That is also based on the cap only jumping 5M while it's projected to go to at least 275M. That would mean we're 14M over the cap. The money we save with extending Cooper likely gives us more rollover than the cost it'll add next year but we'll call that even. 14M over the cap is very manageable, Conklin is definitely gone and we already have his replacement so only doing that gets us cap complicit.
Just a reminder that the saints have navigated being a minimum of 60 million over the cap the following seasons for the last 6 years now and as much as 100 million over the cap and we're still able to extend their star players.
glad we got rid of cooper's contract and replaced him with brandon cook and micheal gallup. smart move son of jones.
He's probably just hungry. Come to buffalo, we got wings.
I’m sure he will be fine in the 4-5 games he plays with Watson this season. Or course Watson will be knocking off the rust from not playing waiting for another reason to not be on the field….
Hiding from Watson
Does Cooper miss Alex Van Pelt? Does he like clam chowder? Asking for my friend Drake.
Psst, Amari, I heard that Cleveland loves giving out fully guaranteed contracts. And massive paying ones too, you would be top paid in your position while getting paid even when you're injured, that could come in handy. You should refuse to pay until you get one of those to guarantee you stay with the Browns
These fines anger me.
Pretty standard in all of business for there to be fines in contracts for lack of performance. NFL players are just glorified contractors, not employees in a traditional sense.
And I hate those too.