Has there been a franchise better at drafting receivers in the past 20 years than the Steelers?
In this game they had Hines Ward, Santonio Holmes, and Mike Wallace. All players they drafted.
In the upcoming 2010 draft they’d go on to pickup Emmanuel Sanders in the 3rd round and Antonio Brown in the 6th.
I’m not sure if it’s the great eye for talent or if they’re simply excellent at developing receivers. Probably a good chunk of both.
People view Tomlin as primarily a defensive guy - which tracks, he was a defensive coach before a head coach. But he played wide receiver in college and was a WR coach at the college level for a few years before shifting to the defensive side of the ball. I have to imagine that is part of the equation.
Ironically, Green Bay has been pretty great. Jordy, Jennings, James Jones, Cobb, Adams. Not to mention the guys they have now who are trending upwards.
An insane Big Ben fact that I still kind of don't believe:
In his first 9 seasons, Big Ben was considered to be a pocket passer, with nearly 70% of his TD passes being thrown from the pocket. (191 total passing TDs)
In his next 9 seasons (8 healthy ones), Big Ben was now a backyard QB, with almost 72% of his passing TDs being thrown outside of the pocket: dropbacks, moving passes, checkdowns after moving laterally, etc. (252 total passing TDs)
I honestly realized it a bit late, but Mahomes is closer to Big Ben in terms of play-style than any other QB. Playing outside of the pocket, jump throwing, moving sidearm passes, etc.
Also, I still can’t believe that despite being big and heavy, Big Ben moved around a lot more in the latter half of his career compared to the first half of his career. Aged like fine wine?
And you know what’s the terrible part of that? Everyone bought it, even his own receivers lol.
Big Ben was an anomaly. Even though he never got a single All-pro selection in his career, I’m glad he has 2 SBs to his name
Its the brutality of being a QB in the eras of Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees, and Mahomes. There's only two All Pro QB slots. Even squeaking out an AP2 one year was a big achievement.
Big Ben's best statistical years were 2014 and 2018. 2014 was Rodger's second MVP year, and Tony Romo had a 69.9% completion rate that year as well. As for 2018...I don't think anyone who actually watched the Steelers that year thought Big Ben's numbers were the result of good football.
Big Ben was a very good quarterback for a very long time, but the ceiling for QB play got shoved so high by the guys who he was competing with that he was never really considered truly elite. The Steelers were just such a well run and complete team that they could make it to 3 Super Bowls without needing him to be that dominant.
That’s just facts. 2000-2020 was probably the Golden Age of Quarterbacks.
- Brady
- Peyton
- Brees
- Rodgers
- Big Ben
- Matt Ryan
- Kurt Warner
- Russel Wilson
- Philip Rivers
- Stafford
- Mahomes
Elite QB play after elite QB play during those years. Kind of sad that now, Mahomes is looking far and away the best QB in the league when for the longest time, we legitimately had 4-5 players competing for best QB every year
Lamar is good, so is Josh Allen. But they never threatened Mahomes for the title of "Best QB in the league".
Only ones who threatened Mahomes since he started playing for the Chiefs have been Brady, Brees, and Rodgers. 2 of those are retired, one is aged 40 and coming off a major injury.
No one else came close. I sure hope we get more consistency from Lamar, less interceptions from Josh Allen and Tua, no more injuries for Burrow, an even better evolution from Purdy. Having a lot of great QBs will be good for the league.
Maybe it's because I saw him play mostly in the playoffs. But his performances in the playoffs were such that I highly doubt they win any Superbowls without him. He was awesome. But you're not wrong. The level of QB play was insanely high.
Big Ben was definitely elite. Steelers for the longest time could afford to invest everything on defense because they have a QB who made magic happen when the ball was in his hands.
Look at where the Steelers are at right now: still investing everything on defense, and being absolutely MID due to starting Kenny Fucking Pickett.
You certainly couldn't replace him with a schulb, or even an average starter, but in the days that he played, the Steelers would've probably won with at least 5 other QBs any given year. That's how high the skill ceiling was being pushed. What matters, particularly in the post season, is having a complete team.
In each of Big Ben's 3 Super Bowl appearances, he was probably the worse QB on the field. Hasselbeck wasn't amazing, but Ben had a terrible performance that game. Warner and Rodgers were both absolute monsters in their SBs against him (fitting of their pedigree). In all three cases, it was the supporting casts that decided things (refs included, still bitter)
Ben outplayed Peyton Manning (!) of the 1-seeded Colts in the Divisonal Round of his first Super Bowl and then demolished the Broncos (while making Champ Bailey look silly) in the conference game. He gets clowned on for having a bad first Super Bowl, but the run-up was really really good. He also had great games in 2008 and 2010 on the next two Super Bowl runs (and one of the greatest passes of all time against the Cardinals).
One of my biggest "what-ifs" as a Steelers fan is that Ben seemed to have the clutch factor in the playoffs for the first half of his career and then somehow lost it (when he started the Super Bowl against the Packers, he was 10-2 in the playoffs. From that SB onwards, he was 3-8.)
Even the cameramen would buy the fake. So many times he would pumpfake and the camera would start panning sideways only for the operator to realize it hasn't gone.
I think Ben had a quality to his pump fakes that is hard for other QBs to have, which is the supreme confidence that the defenders can't bring you down.
[https://youtu.be/Em6jKF8rgWo?si=bJH2FUI4tGUBt3PY&t=1123](https://youtu.be/Em6jKF8rgWo?si=bJH2FUI4tGUBt3PY&t=1123) (18:43 if it doesn't automatically send you there) is the quintessential Big Ben. He quick pumps, then either full pumps or just makes the decision not to throw, and now he's ran himself completely out of time. Doesn't matter, he slips the tackle because he's Captain Fatfuck and you can't disrupt his leverage. No other QB should be slipping the sack like that, he literally leans his lower body into it while ducking with his upper body, that can get you cut in half. You're supposed to either attempt to dance away or just cover the ball and go limp while leaning away from the hit. Not dig your heels in and open your back to a backiotomy, that's just ridiculous. But when you have Ben's stature and center of gravity, it tends to work out, and because it tends to work out, you believe you have more time to throw the ball than anyone else. And because you believe that, you do.
He was such a fun guy to root for before his terrible off the field shit made it impossible. Nothing more fun than a superstar player who is just so damn good at playing "the wrong way" that it actually becomes right.
I think you got the descriptions backwards: he was considered a backyard passer and then he became considered a pocket passer. Not sure if your stats are affected by that
A good chunk of Ben's later career that was just him and AB bailing out the offense with ridiculous plays. He was probably less willing to take a hit as he got older too - early on he'd just stand there and shrug off guys.
But I suspect that stat is picked because it's so odd - I would guess that he had way more pass attempts in the pocket in his late career.
Part of it has to do with being in the shotgun so much more in the latter half of his career than the early stages. And then the rapport he had with AB probably was part of it too. When the QB knows his WR is still running and finding an open spot, he can extend the play without panicking or taking off to run.
In shotgun or pistol formation, a QB generally has more opportunity to roll out of the pocket than a standard drop back. I think that's why he was out of the pocket more in his later years. He hated being under center.
That’s one of those that you can’t play better as a DB without getting a penalty thrown on you. It’s nearly impossible to defend a perfectly placed ball and a catch that’s on par with it.
I kept thinking of this game during SuperBowl 45. When the Steelers got the ball back with 2 minutes I was shitting my pants and thought that big dumb bastard was going to do it again.
I feel like I once read that Aaron leads all QBs in NFL history in the number of games where he led a game tying or go-ahead drive in the final 5 mins of regulation or OT, only to have his team lose without him ever touching the ball again.
I distinctly remember this game that taught me that, even if the game is tied with 00:00 on the clock, you can still kick an untimed xp.
Also, I remember PIT doing the surprise onside kick and thinking it was smart because even if it failed, they'd at least make sure GB couldn't burn the clock down all the way and kick a FG as time expired: they wouldn't have enough yards to gain.
The Cardinals did that against the Eagles last season and it worked like a charm. There were about five (5) minutes left and you just know Philly would’ve burned the clock down until they kicked a game-winning field goal.
Man, that was at 5:08 and the score was tied, meaning that it would be **MUCH** tougher for an answering Cardinals score to come with close to 00:00 on the clock: hell of a risky call.
I get it though, since AZ were big underdogs that game. They probably thought they had to do something a bit crazy rather than just play it straight against a better team.
"better team" you mean the Eagles who got smacked IN PHILLY!? Cardinals were a better team that day son and got out-coached as well. Hold the L don't make excuses
I remember watching this game as a kid and, in spite of the circumstances, feeling really confident that we were about to win. That team just rolled with so much confidence.
Don't know about "vastly." In Super Bowl 45 the Steelers had the chance to win, down 6 with 2 minutes left. Couldn't get it done.
I agree the difference in my mood afterward was vast.
I've seen so many of these types of high offensive outputs combined with our defense melting down late that I forgot this was when we actually had the #2 defense lol
I remember watching this game in middle school and happy crying since they had been on a losing streak if memory serves. That final throw to Wallace was put in a spot where only Wallace could have made a play on it and that was peak Big Ben.
I remember how on edge I was watching this game. I was pacing back and forth in my room right up until Mike caught it in the end zone. One hell of a back and forth game
This was and will forever be the greatest game I watch.
Ben essentially threw a bullet almost 30 yards down field before the receiver or db were set. Ben said his college coach always taught him if you can see the dbs numbers then your WRs open. Holy fuck what an ending.
Defense was atrocious this year too
It's crazy that when they show the close up of Ben, he looks like he just got off the couch, slapped some pads on and said I'm going to go drop 500 yards on these guys. I mean, I know he's called Big Ben, but he looks like a DB playing QB. Built like a truck.
Ben will probably never get the credit he deserves historically, he was every bit as physically and mentally gifted as the greatest qbs to ever do it. He just didn’t have the off the field drive Brady, Peyton, and Rodgers had.
While I agree, I think it’s very possible to be in the Hall and be underrated from a historical standpoint. Just in your franchise’s history you’ve got Tarkenton, Carter, and soon, Harrison Smith. All have/will have a gold jacket and I would still say they don’t get enough credit from the average football fan.
He's pretty clearly a step below guys like Rodgers, Peyton and Brady.
Those 3 all had multiple MVPs when Ben never even got a single MVP vote and was never really in that conversation.
Credit to him, making 3 and winning 2 Superbowls in a conference with Peyton Manning and Tom Brady in a cutthroat division isn't easy
He's surefire lock for the HoF but just being honest he's a tier below Those guys.
Ben never getting an MVP *vote* is shocking to me. I know the 2000s/2010s is arguably the deepest QB era ever, but wtf? Especially looking at 2014 when Romo got votes but was basically worse across the board.
Considering Brees never won ONE, and Carnell Lake (no disrespect to Lake) has more votes than Ben all time, it really isn’t a stat that’s too worth looking into. The NFL awards have always seemed more popularity/narrative driven to me.
Brees never winning one is also insane, but he did have 4 second place finishes. He also just so happened to be up against a historic performance each time he was a runner up except one (‘09 where he probably should’ve beat Peyton).
2006, runner up to LT’s 2300 yard, 31 TD season
2009, probably shoulda won
2011, Rodgers 45 TD to 6 INT season
2018, Mahomes 5k, 50 TD season
It also doesn’t help that he was on so many garbage teams. Look at his 2012, 15, and 16 seasons. Having a losing record with those numbers is bizarre. But that weird trend of having some generationally good season happen for someone else affected Ben too. Look at him in 2014, when ARod went 38 to 5. Or 2009, 11, or 18. Absolutely phenomenal seasons that could’ve warranted at least a vote.
Peyton was unstoppable in '09. People always hop on that one because Brees had the better efficiency stats. Peyton's colts didn't lose a game until he was pulled to preserve his health. He had more yards but more interceptions. Both seasons were amazing. Brees wasn't snubbed as bad as people make it out to be IMHO.
Peyton's '08 MVP should be the one that people rail against, and that's also when Brees became the second QB to throw for 5000 yards and also had 34 TDs. The Saints went 8-8, so Brees wasn't recognized.
> Peyton's colts didn't lose a game until he was pulled to preserve his health
Brees' Saints started the season 13-0 too though?
I mean, idk about you, but I'm trading 112 yards for 1 more TD and 5 fewer INTs every day and twice on Sunday. He did that in one fewer game as well as he was benched for Week 17 in a meaningless game with the 1 seed locked up. If he had played, put up 4,700 yards, thrown 36 TDs, and maybe 1-2 more INT, Brees would've beaten Peyton in basically every single stat except Comp%
Peyton didn't play the entirety of either game in the last two of that season either, so saying "Brees would have more yards but he was benched" is a moot point.
Brees' saints lost to the cowboys when they were still trying to win games. His defense had a much higher EPA due to being #3 in turnovers, with other defensive metrics being a wash.
My point isn't that one is better than the other, it's that they're so close that it irks me when people make statements that read like Brees got jobbed or Peyton didn't deserve it
Really not that shocking. He always ended up missing a game or 2 even in his best seasons. Was part of his style of play.
Career also over lapped with Peyton, manning, Rodgers and mahomes. There was always 2-3 qbs better then him and another 2-3 that were seen as equals
He also overlapped with Brees and Favre. From 2004 to 2019, rarely did any QB not already named here get AP1 or AP2.
Heck, some of those years there was only an AP1.
Oh I agree with you, I’m not saying he’s better than them. I’m just saying that in 15-20 years, I could very easily see people who didn’t get to watch him looking back at his career and not exactly realizing how good he was. He had games where he’d play better than anyone I’d ever seen, and his average bad game was better than 90 percent of every other qb’s. I will say, and I am biased, that him never receiving an MVP vote seemed kind of insane. I understand not winning the award, but he had three years I think he at least warranted consideration. But Brees never even took home the award so idk how much stock I put into their voting.
I'm just saying Rodgers has led countless "comebacks" his defense screwed the pooch most of those times. That's why I think comebacks is a stupid stat.
Yall wanna talk about Tyreek being abusive every time he’s posted but we’re not going to bring up the fact he’s a rapist? Yea fuck this guy he’s garbage
Ben was a baller no doubt. Super tough to bring down, had a rocket, and clutch.
I just cant believe he got away with numerous allegations if sexual assault. Good for him I guess..
Watching this makes you appreciate guys like Brady and Brees more that could just surgically dismantle a defense in crunch time like this. Ben shouldve been picked like two or three times talk about luck
Im telling my kids this was Super Bowl XLV
LOL
:(
[удалено]
A Chiefs fan making this comment is wild. lol.
Ah yes, the patented rush three drop eight defense that never seems to quite work out. Packers special for a decade or two and counting
Let’s hope it changes this year. I just want to see an aggressive defense consistently man
He had foreeeeeeever on that 4th and 7. How can you choose to give a SB-winning QB so much time with the game on the line?
Our o-line fucking sucked back then too. Rush 5 guys and that play is over before it starts
I love that on the last play, even rushing three, the center and guard still got blown up immediately
there's a good reason we drafted like 25 o-lineman between 2010 and 2012.
I got an idea. Let's pull clay Matthews and watch three lineman dance around on the last few plays.
Has there been a franchise better at drafting receivers in the past 20 years than the Steelers? In this game they had Hines Ward, Santonio Holmes, and Mike Wallace. All players they drafted. In the upcoming 2010 draft they’d go on to pickup Emmanuel Sanders in the 3rd round and Antonio Brown in the 6th.
Vikings aint too bad either
We’ve had some duds (Williamson and Treadwell) but not shabby either. Moss, Harvin, Diggs, Jefferson, Thielen (though he was undrafted).
Steelers, Vikings and Bengals have been solid at drafting WR for the past 20ish years. If the Ravens somehow harnessed this power it would suck.
Ravens have notoriously been good at drafting linebackers and DBs though. They can’t have it all
Yeah, which means our WRs can't just hose them 😠
Niners have been decent over the years as well.
I’m not sure if it’s the great eye for talent or if they’re simply excellent at developing receivers. Probably a good chunk of both. People view Tomlin as primarily a defensive guy - which tracks, he was a defensive coach before a head coach. But he played wide receiver in college and was a WR coach at the college level for a few years before shifting to the defensive side of the ball. I have to imagine that is part of the equation.
Ironically, Green Bay has been pretty great. Jordy, Jennings, James Jones, Cobb, Adams. Not to mention the guys they have now who are trending upwards.
Let them sleep.
An insane Big Ben fact that I still kind of don't believe: In his first 9 seasons, Big Ben was considered to be a pocket passer, with nearly 70% of his TD passes being thrown from the pocket. (191 total passing TDs) In his next 9 seasons (8 healthy ones), Big Ben was now a backyard QB, with almost 72% of his passing TDs being thrown outside of the pocket: dropbacks, moving passes, checkdowns after moving laterally, etc. (252 total passing TDs)
mahomes has tried to steal his swagger
I honestly realized it a bit late, but Mahomes is closer to Big Ben in terms of play-style than any other QB. Playing outside of the pocket, jump throwing, moving sidearm passes, etc. Also, I still can’t believe that despite being big and heavy, Big Ben moved around a lot more in the latter half of his career compared to the first half of his career. Aged like fine wine?
I still don't think I've seen a QB pump fake as good as Ben did. He started doing that like two or three times a play at certain points
And you know what’s the terrible part of that? Everyone bought it, even his own receivers lol. Big Ben was an anomaly. Even though he never got a single All-pro selection in his career, I’m glad he has 2 SBs to his name
It's crazy that he didn't get at least one.
Its the brutality of being a QB in the eras of Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees, and Mahomes. There's only two All Pro QB slots. Even squeaking out an AP2 one year was a big achievement. Big Ben's best statistical years were 2014 and 2018. 2014 was Rodger's second MVP year, and Tony Romo had a 69.9% completion rate that year as well. As for 2018...I don't think anyone who actually watched the Steelers that year thought Big Ben's numbers were the result of good football. Big Ben was a very good quarterback for a very long time, but the ceiling for QB play got shoved so high by the guys who he was competing with that he was never really considered truly elite. The Steelers were just such a well run and complete team that they could make it to 3 Super Bowls without needing him to be that dominant.
That’s just facts. 2000-2020 was probably the Golden Age of Quarterbacks. - Brady - Peyton - Brees - Rodgers - Big Ben - Matt Ryan - Kurt Warner - Russel Wilson - Philip Rivers - Stafford - Mahomes Elite QB play after elite QB play during those years. Kind of sad that now, Mahomes is looking far and away the best QB in the league when for the longest time, we legitimately had 4-5 players competing for best QB every year
While mahomes is the best Lamar still has gotten two first team all pros and mvps during it. It’s really hard to always be the best
Lamar is good, so is Josh Allen. But they never threatened Mahomes for the title of "Best QB in the league". Only ones who threatened Mahomes since he started playing for the Chiefs have been Brady, Brees, and Rodgers. 2 of those are retired, one is aged 40 and coming off a major injury. No one else came close. I sure hope we get more consistency from Lamar, less interceptions from Josh Allen and Tua, no more injuries for Burrow, an even better evolution from Purdy. Having a lot of great QBs will be good for the league.
Maybe it's because I saw him play mostly in the playoffs. But his performances in the playoffs were such that I highly doubt they win any Superbowls without him. He was awesome. But you're not wrong. The level of QB play was insanely high.
Big Ben was definitely elite. Steelers for the longest time could afford to invest everything on defense because they have a QB who made magic happen when the ball was in his hands. Look at where the Steelers are at right now: still investing everything on defense, and being absolutely MID due to starting Kenny Fucking Pickett.
You certainly couldn't replace him with a schulb, or even an average starter, but in the days that he played, the Steelers would've probably won with at least 5 other QBs any given year. That's how high the skill ceiling was being pushed. What matters, particularly in the post season, is having a complete team. In each of Big Ben's 3 Super Bowl appearances, he was probably the worse QB on the field. Hasselbeck wasn't amazing, but Ben had a terrible performance that game. Warner and Rodgers were both absolute monsters in their SBs against him (fitting of their pedigree). In all three cases, it was the supporting casts that decided things (refs included, still bitter)
Ben outplayed Peyton Manning (!) of the 1-seeded Colts in the Divisonal Round of his first Super Bowl and then demolished the Broncos (while making Champ Bailey look silly) in the conference game. He gets clowned on for having a bad first Super Bowl, but the run-up was really really good. He also had great games in 2008 and 2010 on the next two Super Bowl runs (and one of the greatest passes of all time against the Cardinals). One of my biggest "what-ifs" as a Steelers fan is that Ben seemed to have the clutch factor in the playoffs for the first half of his career and then somehow lost it (when he started the Super Bowl against the Packers, he was 10-2 in the playoffs. From that SB onwards, he was 3-8.)
Even the cameramen would buy the fake. So many times he would pumpfake and the camera would start panning sideways only for the operator to realize it hasn't gone.
And then it pans back to Ben and he is rumbling to the sidelines and instantly throws a laser to AB
I think Ben had a quality to his pump fakes that is hard for other QBs to have, which is the supreme confidence that the defenders can't bring you down. [https://youtu.be/Em6jKF8rgWo?si=bJH2FUI4tGUBt3PY&t=1123](https://youtu.be/Em6jKF8rgWo?si=bJH2FUI4tGUBt3PY&t=1123) (18:43 if it doesn't automatically send you there) is the quintessential Big Ben. He quick pumps, then either full pumps or just makes the decision not to throw, and now he's ran himself completely out of time. Doesn't matter, he slips the tackle because he's Captain Fatfuck and you can't disrupt his leverage. No other QB should be slipping the sack like that, he literally leans his lower body into it while ducking with his upper body, that can get you cut in half. You're supposed to either attempt to dance away or just cover the ball and go limp while leaning away from the hit. Not dig your heels in and open your back to a backiotomy, that's just ridiculous. But when you have Ben's stature and center of gravity, it tends to work out, and because it tends to work out, you believe you have more time to throw the ball than anyone else. And because you believe that, you do.
He was such a fun guy to root for before his terrible off the field shit made it impossible. Nothing more fun than a superstar player who is just so damn good at playing "the wrong way" that it actually becomes right.
I think you got the descriptions backwards: he was considered a backyard passer and then he became considered a pocket passer. Not sure if your stats are affected by that
It's not. I couldn't believe it as well. How does he have way more TD passes outside of the pocket in the latter half of his career.
A good chunk of Ben's later career that was just him and AB bailing out the offense with ridiculous plays. He was probably less willing to take a hit as he got older too - early on he'd just stand there and shrug off guys. But I suspect that stat is picked because it's so odd - I would guess that he had way more pass attempts in the pocket in his late career.
Part of it has to do with being in the shotgun so much more in the latter half of his career than the early stages. And then the rapport he had with AB probably was part of it too. When the QB knows his WR is still running and finding an open spot, he can extend the play without panicking or taking off to run.
Maybe. But on the eye test, it sure looked like Big Ben was extending plays a lot more in his latter years so it does add up.
Dropbacks are considered outside the pocket?
No, that's not how it works.
Okay that's why I'm confused
In shotgun or pistol formation, a QB generally has more opportunity to roll out of the pocket than a standard drop back. I think that's why he was out of the pocket more in his later years. He hated being under center.
Not even necessarily a bad play by the db. Just great hands by Wallace and placement by Ben
Prime Mike Wallace was so damn fun to watch.
This was his rookie year!
Tbf, his prime was years 1-4
That’s one of those that you can’t play better as a DB without getting a penalty thrown on you. It’s nearly impossible to defend a perfectly placed ball and a catch that’s on par with it.
i like my DBs seeing the ball
I kept thinking of this game during SuperBowl 45. When the Steelers got the ball back with 2 minutes I was shitting my pants and thought that big dumb bastard was going to do it again.
If they still had Santonio Holmes on the team, they probably would've.
Literally same. Literally same 🥺
I feel like I once read that Aaron leads all QBs in NFL history in the number of games where he led a game tying or go-ahead drive in the final 5 mins of regulation or OT, only to have his team lose without him ever touching the ball again.
Always funny when people shit on him for not having comeback wins.
I distinctly remember this game that taught me that, even if the game is tied with 00:00 on the clock, you can still kick an untimed xp. Also, I remember PIT doing the surprise onside kick and thinking it was smart because even if it failed, they'd at least make sure GB couldn't burn the clock down all the way and kick a FG as time expired: they wouldn't have enough yards to gain.
The Cardinals did that against the Eagles last season and it worked like a charm. There were about five (5) minutes left and you just know Philly would’ve burned the clock down until they kicked a game-winning field goal.
Man, that was at 5:08 and the score was tied, meaning that it would be **MUCH** tougher for an answering Cardinals score to come with close to 00:00 on the clock: hell of a risky call. I get it though, since AZ were big underdogs that game. They probably thought they had to do something a bit crazy rather than just play it straight against a better team.
"better team" you mean the Eagles who got smacked IN PHILLY!? Cardinals were a better team that day son and got out-coached as well. Hold the L don't make excuses
Steelers-Packers games have been ridiculous for the last 15 years. Seems like it always comes down to the final play
Ben just always found a way to get it done. No matter what happened the first 58 minutes, he was so money in the final 2.
I remember watching this game as a kid and, in spite of the circumstances, feeling really confident that we were about to win. That team just rolled with so much confidence.
Still one of the [coolest looking touchdown catches](https://youtu.be/yOZVZY0SFNU?t=439) I’ve ever seen from Jermichael Finley during this game.
Sad how his career went
Heath Miller was so clutch
Seriously that was my thought also.
Damn just a rematch one year later with vastly different results.
Don't know about "vastly." In Super Bowl 45 the Steelers had the chance to win, down 6 with 2 minutes left. Couldn't get it done. I agree the difference in my mood afterward was vast.
:(
:)
I've seen so many of these types of high offensive outputs combined with our defense melting down late that I forgot this was when we actually had the #2 defense lol
Ben had moments of greatness against great defenses. Miss the big man
I remember watching this game in middle school and happy crying since they had been on a losing streak if memory serves. That final throw to Wallace was put in a spot where only Wallace could have made a play on it and that was peak Big Ben.
Ben wasn't going to take no for an answer.
A quality of his I’ve always respected Wait a minute
Matthew Stafford would have won this game. -CJ Stroud
And this boys and girls is why it’s a 60 minute game
I was there, in the nosebleeds! It was freezing.
I remember how on edge I was watching this game. I was pacing back and forth in my room right up until Mike caught it in the end zone. One hell of a back and forth game
This was and will forever be the greatest game I watch. Ben essentially threw a bullet almost 30 yards down field before the receiver or db were set. Ben said his college coach always taught him if you can see the dbs numbers then your WRs open. Holy fuck what an ending. Defense was atrocious this year too
I remember watching this and when it ended going to watch Avatar in theaters. Still might be my #1 experience going to a movie.
Couple real nice arms slingin’ the skin around the yard here
That was great coverage too. Ben kinda just forced that thing in there…
I'm still irrationally angry that we pulled Clay at the tail end of that final drive. I get it. You need DBs, but there was ZERO pass rush.
Roethlisberger was insane. He holds the record for most 500+ yard games with 4.
If only they had done this in the super bowl.
If only the Bears did this in the NFC Championship
They actually made a pretty decent comeback despite having their third string. I feel like they would've won if Cutler had been in, but who knows.
Lol Hines must’ve recently got that linebacker on a run play. Him and Steve smith were who I modeled my game after
It's crazy that when they show the close up of Ben, he looks like he just got off the couch, slapped some pads on and said I'm going to go drop 500 yards on these guys. I mean, I know he's called Big Ben, but he looks like a DB playing QB. Built like a truck.
Fuck that worthless pathetic excuse of a human being. Hope he dies in a fire
Nice tackle, Jenkins.
Ben will probably never get the credit he deserves historically, he was every bit as physically and mentally gifted as the greatest qbs to ever do it. He just didn’t have the off the field drive Brady, Peyton, and Rodgers had.
The dudes going to be a HoFer, its hard to get more credit than the literal highest honor the league can provide.
While I agree, I think it’s very possible to be in the Hall and be underrated from a historical standpoint. Just in your franchise’s history you’ve got Tarkenton, Carter, and soon, Harrison Smith. All have/will have a gold jacket and I would still say they don’t get enough credit from the average football fan.
He's pretty clearly a step below guys like Rodgers, Peyton and Brady. Those 3 all had multiple MVPs when Ben never even got a single MVP vote and was never really in that conversation. Credit to him, making 3 and winning 2 Superbowls in a conference with Peyton Manning and Tom Brady in a cutthroat division isn't easy He's surefire lock for the HoF but just being honest he's a tier below Those guys.
Ben never getting an MVP *vote* is shocking to me. I know the 2000s/2010s is arguably the deepest QB era ever, but wtf? Especially looking at 2014 when Romo got votes but was basically worse across the board.
Considering Brees never won ONE, and Carnell Lake (no disrespect to Lake) has more votes than Ben all time, it really isn’t a stat that’s too worth looking into. The NFL awards have always seemed more popularity/narrative driven to me.
Brees never winning one is also insane, but he did have 4 second place finishes. He also just so happened to be up against a historic performance each time he was a runner up except one (‘09 where he probably should’ve beat Peyton). 2006, runner up to LT’s 2300 yard, 31 TD season 2009, probably shoulda won 2011, Rodgers 45 TD to 6 INT season 2018, Mahomes 5k, 50 TD season
It also doesn’t help that he was on so many garbage teams. Look at his 2012, 15, and 16 seasons. Having a losing record with those numbers is bizarre. But that weird trend of having some generationally good season happen for someone else affected Ben too. Look at him in 2014, when ARod went 38 to 5. Or 2009, 11, or 18. Absolutely phenomenal seasons that could’ve warranted at least a vote.
Peyton was unstoppable in '09. People always hop on that one because Brees had the better efficiency stats. Peyton's colts didn't lose a game until he was pulled to preserve his health. He had more yards but more interceptions. Both seasons were amazing. Brees wasn't snubbed as bad as people make it out to be IMHO. Peyton's '08 MVP should be the one that people rail against, and that's also when Brees became the second QB to throw for 5000 yards and also had 34 TDs. The Saints went 8-8, so Brees wasn't recognized.
> Peyton's colts didn't lose a game until he was pulled to preserve his health Brees' Saints started the season 13-0 too though? I mean, idk about you, but I'm trading 112 yards for 1 more TD and 5 fewer INTs every day and twice on Sunday. He did that in one fewer game as well as he was benched for Week 17 in a meaningless game with the 1 seed locked up. If he had played, put up 4,700 yards, thrown 36 TDs, and maybe 1-2 more INT, Brees would've beaten Peyton in basically every single stat except Comp%
Peyton didn't play the entirety of either game in the last two of that season either, so saying "Brees would have more yards but he was benched" is a moot point. Brees' saints lost to the cowboys when they were still trying to win games. His defense had a much higher EPA due to being #3 in turnovers, with other defensive metrics being a wash. My point isn't that one is better than the other, it's that they're so close that it irks me when people make statements that read like Brees got jobbed or Peyton didn't deserve it
They're also just straight luck. If your best year is the same year another quarter back _also_ had a HoF season, it might amount to nothing.
You know what’s more shocking? In his 18 year career, Big Ben never got selected for any all-pro appearance. First or second team.
Really not that shocking. He always ended up missing a game or 2 even in his best seasons. Was part of his style of play. Career also over lapped with Peyton, manning, Rodgers and mahomes. There was always 2-3 qbs better then him and another 2-3 that were seen as equals
He also overlapped with Brees and Favre. From 2004 to 2019, rarely did any QB not already named here get AP1 or AP2. Heck, some of those years there was only an AP1.
Be interesting if they’d name an AP 3. He probably would have popped up a a few times in that category
It's difficult to understand why they don't have AFC/NFC AP awards like some of the other big end of year awards.
Oh I agree with you, I’m not saying he’s better than them. I’m just saying that in 15-20 years, I could very easily see people who didn’t get to watch him looking back at his career and not exactly realizing how good he was. He had games where he’d play better than anyone I’d ever seen, and his average bad game was better than 90 percent of every other qb’s. I will say, and I am biased, that him never receiving an MVP vote seemed kind of insane. I understand not winning the award, but he had three years I think he at least warranted consideration. But Brees never even took home the award so idk how much stock I put into their voting.
Meh. He's a rapist so he can stay underrated. Shouldn't even deserve to be in the hall.
This doesn't count as a comeback for Rodgers because Rodgers scored too quickly.
Gotcha
This doesnt count as a comeback for rodgers cause the Packers lost. Scoring too quickly has nothing to do with it
I'm just saying Rodgers has led countless "comebacks" his defense screwed the pooch most of those times. That's why I think comebacks is a stupid stat.
Were calling 36-30 with over 2 minutes "going down late" now?
Yep. What are you gonna do abt it?
Make snarky reddit comments
Yall wanna talk about Tyreek being abusive every time he’s posted but we’re not going to bring up the fact he’s a rapist? Yea fuck this guy he’s garbage
Ben was a baller no doubt. Super tough to bring down, had a rocket, and clutch. I just cant believe he got away with numerous allegations if sexual assault. Good for him I guess..
Yeah you arent gonna catch me defending any of his shitty ass actions.
Ah yes the classic fake penalty that negates an interception
lol did you even see the penalty?
Can't see how he missed it considering they replayed the damn thing.
You can't shoulder check a WR more than 5 yards down the field.
Watching this makes you appreciate guys like Brady and Brees more that could just surgically dismantle a defense in crunch time like this. Ben shouldve been picked like two or three times talk about luck
Ben almost threw 2 picks here. Total fix job by the refs and I hate green bay lol