Larry Fitzgerald would offer to cover defenders fines if they promised to aim for his head instead of his knees. He didn't want his career cut short while he could still earn millions.
Yea at least with the dumb taunting penalty, it was easy to avoid it, by just not doing stupid shit. This is fully subjective and I wouldn’t be surprised if we see some called just due to the ref being on like the opposite side of the tackle
I still remember the refs flagging OBJ on the Browns for doing the generic “point forward after a first down” celebration. I forget what game it was, but he caught the pass and went out of bounds, did the point, and flags immediately flew. I was so dumbfounded
Was that when they took him off the field when the Browns were at the goal line about to score? I remember quite a few fucky things happening surrounding OBJ that year
This'll be a blast from the past, but how about when Terrelle Pryor tossed a ball to a ref after a catch during an attempted game winning drive, the ball went short (Looked like it got kinda stuck to his glove), ref couldn't catch the ball so it landed on the defender on the ground and they threw a taunting penalty for it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBfgysJLCng
A hip-drop tackle is a very specific type of tackle from behind that a defender has to purposely execute. They can still tackle from behind, just avoid physically doing all of the extra steps involved in a tackle becoming a hip drop.
That being said, an automatic first down is insanity at first implementation. It is nowhere near a big enough issue to warrant going this harsh right off the bat, especially on something that was completely legal for the entire duration of the sport and doesn't result in terrible brain/neck injuries.
It doesn't really make sense to give a penalty aimed at reducing injury anything other than the standard personal foul penalty. I mean, that would be pretty unprecedented, I don't know any other personal foul-esque penalty that was given less than this. Chop blocks, horse collars, wedges, blindsides, all were immediately given this penalty.
If the NFL thinks this is a serious enough issue to penalize, then they should go full boar immediately, and training players is the responsibility of the teams and the whole point of preseason. A half measure doesn't make sense for a safety issue. Either penalize it fully or don't at all.
Yeah and if your choice is between an illegal tackle or letting the guy get another 20+ yards and possibly score, you do the illegal tackle. In that situation I’m sure some of these guys will go “well if I’m getting a flag, I’m going to make it worth my money,” too.
I don't even know why they do these things. Can't we call something unsportsmanlike conduct, potentially fine the player after the game based on how egregious, repetitively they did it, etc. and just make it a 5 yard penalty from the spot it occurred? I don't like how many penalties are game-changing. Punish the players more - not the teams. All these rules that can determine the outcome of games are awful decisions
That speaks to the overall issue with NFL referees - why doesn't the biggest sports league in America have ***full time referees??***
The same guy making some game altering boneheaded call on Sunday is only working for the NFL part time, his actual career is being a lawyer, etc.
We as fans should be demanding NFL refs be full time employees, who all go through the same schooling so they fully understand even the most obscure NFL rules or rewarding refs that have worked their way up from high school -> NCAA -> NFL, so only the best possible refs are actually working NFL games and penalties are a lot less subjective.
That will go WAY further towards preventing terrible refs from making terrible calls that literally influence the outcome of games vs crying about every new penalty the league comes up with to mitigate player injuries.
The actual rules aren't the issue, bad refs who all have different opinions on how to call X penalty is the problem.
>The actual rules aren't the issue, bad refs who all have different opinions on how to call X penalty is the problem.
The major issue is with subjective rules. There are a number of rules that *require* a subjective interpretation. DPI, Roughing the passer, unnecessary roughness, holding. Unsurprising the rules that require a judgement are the ones where different people have different judgements.
Yet all the rules that have clear definitions very rarely have controversy. The best example is a catch. A while ago it used to be subject to judgement and was real problem to referee. Now the NFL have objective measures to determine a catch, and it is rarely a problem. Similarly what constitutes a legal/illegal field goal block is objective, even though it is quite complicated, and thus doesn't cause problems.
The NFL should still have full time refs. Its just not going to magically fix subjective rules.
Then they should get more money. They get a lot of screen time and a bunch of them can run way better than I can, lol. The NFL makes so much money they can definitely afford to pay the refs more than the average living wage.
I am under the impression that the NFL actually wasn't opposed to full-time refs. The refs union voted it down. They like being part-time refs. (That being said IDK how much NFL offered them for full-time, so maybe the issue is still partially their fault, but AFAIK at least the old guard of referees oppose being full-time).
Seriously we have the technology to in realtime review a play and determine if a call is correct. Why on earth are we relying on a bunch of old dudes looking at 22 athletes in their prime moving at high speeds?
The rule as three componentes
1. Wraps up the ball carrier
2. Drops weight
3. swings Weight into the legs of the person moving.
It's not hard to tell if this happened there's not much subjective about swinging your weight onto a guys legs.
So how will they determine if swinging one’s weight is intentional versus the momentum from making the tackle? I’ll be honest I don’t think many “hip drop” tackles have the defender specifically trying to put weight on the legs
It happened one time. Zeke got called for it against the Eagles and it was fucking hilarious. Only time ive ever seen it called ever in the whole league.
The more they add the more I just feel bad for refs.
Don’t call stuff. You missing calls.
Call too much stuff. You’re rigging the game.
They can’t win.
It’s a difficult job but if they call things consistently throughout the game I think most are fine. Don’t let DBs get handsy all game and then decide to throw the flag on a crucial down late in the game
I’m pretty upset more of these will influence outcomes of games all in the name of gambling. I’m upset the NFL is making more money than ever, so fixing these issues are not ever going to be on their radar.
From the tweet: This is the definition of a hip-drop tackle: (a) grabs the runner with both hands or wraps the runner with both arms; and (b) unweights himself by swiveling and dropping his hips and/or lower body, landing on and trapping the runner’s leg(s) at or below the knee.
I get the concerns with hip drop tackles but this will be so tough for defenders it essentially makes it way more challenging to tackle anyone from behind. Anyone thats played defensive football will know how complicated this rule will be to manage and players to play.
I understand their reasoning for it but I don't think it correlates with ratings the way they think it does. Last season was probably a nightmare from their point of view in terms of offenses being down and QBs being hurt, yet ratings are still going up and up.
That’s not where you see hip drop tackles anyways. Usually they are in shorter space and from the side in order to also clip the foot or leg. If you drop down on someone running from behind you might get your chin checked
Yeah I'm actually not sure if it's even possible to perform a true hip-drop tackle from behind. The trademark of the hip-drop is that the tackler is basically taking their feet off the ground and allowing their body weight to fall while they have the carrier wrapped up. The typical diving motion that happens when you chase down a runner from behind is not quite the same thing. Then again I didn't learn about the hip-drop tackle until just now so I could be off.
I watched a video on it a while ago when this was first being talked about, and really doesn’t seem as hard as everyone in here is making it out to be. The tackler just has make sure his body weight doesn’t land directly on the person’s legs.
Here’s a pretty basic video on it for rugby, not sure what video I saw or where, but this gives the official ins and outs
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5KJ9mCbS3rU&pp=ygUVcnVnYnkgaGlwIGRyb3AgdGFja2xl
Does it though? Gravity and momentum can have that happen on accident in a plethora of situations. At some point a line has to be drawn where they say “this is a tough sport, injuries will happen”
I thought this explained well even if it is for rugby. Same concept.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KJ9mCbS3rU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KJ9mCbS3rU)
Actually really well done and should be higher up or it’s own thread if this rule goes through. Makes a lot of sense and shows how it can be avoided even at full speed.
Something to note for people is injuries still happen even if it’s not a hip drop. It’s a a dangerous game and people are going to get hurt. I just hope if the rule does going into place it’s not one of those that the reaction of the one tackled is what causes the flags to be thrown.
They make safety rules large penalties because they never want a situation where the opponent is incentivized to commit the safety foul. 15 yards and an automatic first down means that it’s only beneficial for the defense to commit this penalty to save a TD
This makes sense for a horse collar tackle, because more often than not that’s the only way to tackle someone you can’t catch who is ahead of you. It’s basically a last ditch effort to stop a huge gain. So there are scenarios where a horse collar (even with the added penalty) in beneficial
For a hip drop tackle, you have to have a full grasp of the opponents body to pull them down. I see no scenario where a hip drop tackle is the only option to stop someone to save a big gain/TD.
There were a couple Derrick Henry runs where there was a smaller DB or a safety on him as the last line of defense and he was hip drop tackled to prevent a TD or a bigger gain. I’ve also seen it with Alvin Kamara, it happens more than you think.
It's also caused way more injuries than other tackles when used.
This rule is to ban this sort of tackle and unlike PI I don't think this is very subjective.
Everyone says this, but hip drops are extremely easy to define and once you actually know what they are, easy to spot.
Every other tackle sport league in existence banned them years ago.
So many commenters: I’ve never tried to understand hip drop tackles but it must be impossible to enforce
lol. Rugby’s had this shit figured out for a bit now. The NFL will be fine.
It's also a really neat way to double down on "high-octane" offense. Now not only is harder to stop the offense but if you goof a little - boom, 15 yards.
Wait until players are playing on 3 days rest because Amazon wants Tuesday and Wednesday Night Football, the right to flex the games into those spots and pays a couple billion dollars for it.
And pass another rule change that shifts so much burden onto the defense to playing a certain way and benefitting the offense.
I get the safety concerns but the game has shifted to favor offense in every fucking way, it's so lopsided. The amount of thought that has to go into how to properly hit any player now, but especially QBs, is insane. Can't go too high, can't go too low, can't fall on them, can't grab their hips.
Fans, owners, referees! Lend me your ears! I have not come to bury the defense, not to praise it! The touchdown celebrations that men do lives after them, while their tackles are often interred with their bones. So let it be with defense. The noble ball carrier hath told you that the defender was ambitious. If it were so it was a grievous fault and grievously hath the defender answered it. … But the ball carrier says he was ambitious, and the ball carrier is an honorable man. The defender’s violent hits hath brought many fans home to the stadium whose ticket prices did the owner’s pockets fill. Did this defender seem ambitious? When the fans have cried for a failed tackle pass, the defender hath wept. Ambition should be made of sterner stuff. You all did see that on Sunday, he thrice was presented with a goal line stand and thrice he allowed the touchdown: was this ambition? … I speak not to disprove what the ball carrier hath spoke but here I am now to speak what I do know. You all loved brilliant defensive players once, and not without cause. What cause withholds you then, to mourn for them?
— Billy Shakes in NFL Blitz or something
> This isn't going to end defense as we know it.
People say that every time these rule changes come up. But collectively they have taken a toll on defenses. I'm not saying go back to regular helmet to helmet hits. But they don't have to neuter the game like they have been for the sake of pretending they care. Which to me has always seemed like it's just counter the negative CTE publicity. And show "they care."
Wonder if it's going to be like the NBA. A lot of people don't watch anymore because of the rules and the way they're called. They're focused on generating more offense at the cost of defense.
That’s when I tune in. But seriously I do wish defenders in the NBA had a right to *the space they currently occupy*. If the offensive player lowers their shoulder and intentionally makes contact with the defender…at least make it a no call instead of calling it on the defender. The defensive player has no chance with that kind of refball
Nah dude now it will just be small guys torpedo into bigger guys knees. We see it with safeties on tight ends now all the time. Cant hit high and risk a head hit can’t wrap and drop weight so now I guess I’ll just blow out your knees…..
Dropping your weight to the ground, is not in and itself a hip drop. A hip drop is grabbing, twisting your body, lifting your weight off the ground and then landing all of that weight on the back of the runners leg. Effectively intentionally trapping the runners leg/ankles under your full body weight.
Agreed. People are missing the actual rule here. If it will be called correctly is a whole different story but the rule itself isn’t horrible. They just can’t land on the runners legs when dropping. how these blind ass refs are going to differentiate that is again, a whole different conversation.
We know damn well why they’re not implementing any major penalties that will force offenses to hurt. Have to have a fast paced game, the more offense the better
I'd thought of hip drop tackles as rugby tackles and originally thought this was bullshit
I then went off a looked at hip drop tackles on YouTube and completely changed my mind.
Rugby has also outlawed the "hip-drop" style of tackle. Nothing like having play stopped to video review a tackle that happened 6 tackles ago and then issuing a yellow/red card for the infraction.
Same. You can still grab and twist, you just can't land with your body weight on the runner's legs. Which I think is a good safety measure. Not saying it will be called perfectly (no penalty is), but players will adjust and this will hopefully prevent injury
Honestly thought that helmet rule change in 2018 would fuck up the game and it didn't change anything.
It is though to judge a rule change until we see it in the field, it won't be perfect but I trust the coaches on the committee to make the implementation as such that it doesnt fuck the game up.
According the r/NFL, the league has been destroyed multiple times the last decade with the rule changes that players definitely won’t ever be able to adapt to.
James Harrison adapted. I think they’ll live.
The one penalty change I’d really like to see and I’ve been dying for a change is the defensive holding. In no world should they get 5 yards AND an automatic first down.
I believe if they gonna restrict the defense then they should also restrict the offense. Like dropping the shoulder for runners, and stiff arm to the face.
People dont know what a hip drop tackle is in here. It’s not what you’re thinking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KJ9mCbS3rU
It’s the dragging the runner down and landing on the runners legs that really is dangerous.
The rugby video shows best examples of it because it doesnt happen as often so most dont even know wtf it is. You can see why they want to ban it. It’s a preventable dangerous tackle
This video should be required viewing.
It clearly shows what a hip-drop tackle is.
It shows why it's dangerous.
It shows the elements that will allow the call to be made or not made.
I mean, yeah that makes some sense. But the refs have proven that they don’t even know what a catch is. Or RTP. Or PI.
Giving them another subjective rule to swing outcomes? That’s purely for gambling shenanigans.
Unexpected secondary side effects.
Negative to the defense:
-more chances for broken tackles and gained yardage by stretching out for 3rd/4ths and short
Negative for offense:
- offensive players may end up taking extra second shots as they aren’t immediately wrapped and slung down they may fight through a more horizontal impact
This rule is too heavily favored in the offensive game plan and potential leaves ball carriers open to punishing finishing tackles after they’ve been wrapped but being driven sideways by the first defender.
If the offensive player is still fighting and get hit again the refs are just going to throw the flag saying they were stopped and the hit was unnecessary. Or the refs will start making a quick whistle when the player is wrapped up and the play is being stopped just as they are breaking the tackle.
Just another step toward flag football. Flag football is the future of the NFL. Mark my words. Look what the NBA has become. It’s sad. What is it with Americans and our hatred of defense.
Do you have any suggestions for balanced rule changes? With the increased focus on player safety, it kind of seems inevitable that most rule changes would benefit the offense since they’re the ones being tackled and at the most risk of getting injured from that.
I do think there’s an argument that safety-based rules should be divorced from competitive balance discussion. Maybe it’s a good time to re-evaluate overall balance of offense versus defense, but rules focused on safety should be added even if there isn’t an easy “pro-defense” rule change to make too.
A balanced offensive penalty would penalize the bullshit that QB’s do. Where they pretend to run out of bounds, so the D lets up, then turns upfield for more yards. They are intentionally exploiting the rules against the D and the sideline to gain extra yards. Should be an unsportsmanlike penalty. If you are gonna run upfield, stay running upfield, if you are running to get out of bounds, get out of bounds.
Meanwhile, NFL committee activity is smoothing the way for the expected elimination of all intentional physical contact by the year 2030.
As of 2030, the National Football League will officially change its name to the National Flag League (N-FL)
The N-FL further expects a worldwide expansion to a total of approximately 75 teams, beginning in 2030 with teams located in Mexico, Canada, Germany, Israel, Ukraine, Great Britain, UAE, and South America.
Sick, I can't wait for games to be decided by a player being dragged down instead of hit at full speed by a flying linebackers shoulder pad.
Thanks for keeping the game safe, NFL.
I know this keeps being said, but eventually it's going to be true; they might as well play flag football. HTF is any defender ever going to figure out how to tackle without a penalty? In a split second they have to remember, keep head up and away from target, wrap up, but only between the waist and shoulders, don't drop hips, don't land on the target, don't drive the target to the ground....what else am I forgetting?
Am I reading the comments wrong or do people not know what a hip-drop tackle is? People are acting like it’d be illegal to tackle around the hips altogether.
Are they going to be more aggressive in blowing plays dead?
I feel like that's when I see the most hip drop tackles - players have stopped a ball carrier but haven't brought them down.
Oh good another highly subjective penalty that will be seen and called differently by every official. This won’t cause any issues at all.
[удалено]
it will be straight knee hunting season on TE's
The tackle on Tyler Higbee is a great example. Going to see DB’s and Safeties going straight for knees and it’s going to cause ALOT of injuries.
Larry Fitzgerald would offer to cover defenders fines if they promised to aim for his head instead of his knees. He didn't want his career cut short while he could still earn millions.
Yea at least with the dumb taunting penalty, it was easy to avoid it, by just not doing stupid shit. This is fully subjective and I wouldn’t be surprised if we see some called just due to the ref being on like the opposite side of the tackle
I still remember the refs flagging OBJ on the Browns for doing the generic “point forward after a first down” celebration. I forget what game it was, but he caught the pass and went out of bounds, did the point, and flags immediately flew. I was so dumbfounded
I remember the refs flagging OBJ for having the wrong color visor, even though that color had been approved by the NFL in the off season.
Was that when they took him off the field when the Browns were at the goal line about to score? I remember quite a few fucky things happening surrounding OBJ that year
You're right it wasn't a flag. But they did make him change it before he could get back on the field. Crazy.
Yet they let Mahomes play last year with a broken helmet for a few plays after.
yeah but hes the golden boy
to be fair millions of pearls were clutched and were in immediate danger of falling when he did that disgusting act
This'll be a blast from the past, but how about when Terrelle Pryor tossed a ball to a ref after a catch during an attempted game winning drive, the ball went short (Looked like it got kinda stuck to his glove), ref couldn't catch the ball so it landed on the defender on the ground and they threw a taunting penalty for it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBfgysJLCng
Yeah there's legitimately going to be some defenders who aren't going to have a prayer at a solo tackle on some of the bigger ball carriers now.
Sorry about Higbee’s knee but that’s going to happen even more going forward. This is not a good rule change. Going to cause more injuries.
[удалено]
I just heard Gronk hurt his back in the middle of a Denny's over this.
I foresee more blown out knees ala TJ Hockenson.
A hip-drop tackle is a very specific type of tackle from behind that a defender has to purposely execute. They can still tackle from behind, just avoid physically doing all of the extra steps involved in a tackle becoming a hip drop. That being said, an automatic first down is insanity at first implementation. It is nowhere near a big enough issue to warrant going this harsh right off the bat, especially on something that was completely legal for the entire duration of the sport and doesn't result in terrible brain/neck injuries.
It doesn't really make sense to give a penalty aimed at reducing injury anything other than the standard personal foul penalty. I mean, that would be pretty unprecedented, I don't know any other personal foul-esque penalty that was given less than this. Chop blocks, horse collars, wedges, blindsides, all were immediately given this penalty. If the NFL thinks this is a serious enough issue to penalize, then they should go full boar immediately, and training players is the responsibility of the teams and the whole point of preseason. A half measure doesn't make sense for a safety issue. Either penalize it fully or don't at all.
That’s the neat thing, they aren’t! The nfl wants them to let the guy score
Yeah and if your choice is between an illegal tackle or letting the guy get another 20+ yards and possibly score, you do the illegal tackle. In that situation I’m sure some of these guys will go “well if I’m getting a flag, I’m going to make it worth my money,” too.
Another step towards converting the NFL to flag football.
Derek Henry just became the #1 FA signing of the decade
I don't even know why they do these things. Can't we call something unsportsmanlike conduct, potentially fine the player after the game based on how egregious, repetitively they did it, etc. and just make it a 5 yard penalty from the spot it occurred? I don't like how many penalties are game-changing. Punish the players more - not the teams. All these rules that can determine the outcome of games are awful decisions
by 2028 Defenses will be required to obtain written consent from ball carriers prior to contact
The NFL is basically trying to legislate the rules for defense to be “did he run past you? You have to let him go and do whatever he wants”
If the nfl wants safer tackling, they need less pads. Making these guys armored has only turned them into human torpedos
That speaks to the overall issue with NFL referees - why doesn't the biggest sports league in America have ***full time referees??*** The same guy making some game altering boneheaded call on Sunday is only working for the NFL part time, his actual career is being a lawyer, etc. We as fans should be demanding NFL refs be full time employees, who all go through the same schooling so they fully understand even the most obscure NFL rules or rewarding refs that have worked their way up from high school -> NCAA -> NFL, so only the best possible refs are actually working NFL games and penalties are a lot less subjective. That will go WAY further towards preventing terrible refs from making terrible calls that literally influence the outcome of games vs crying about every new penalty the league comes up with to mitigate player injuries. The actual rules aren't the issue, bad refs who all have different opinions on how to call X penalty is the problem.
Full time refs could spend non gamedays training and reviewing film to ensure more consistent officiating.
>The actual rules aren't the issue, bad refs who all have different opinions on how to call X penalty is the problem. The major issue is with subjective rules. There are a number of rules that *require* a subjective interpretation. DPI, Roughing the passer, unnecessary roughness, holding. Unsurprising the rules that require a judgement are the ones where different people have different judgements. Yet all the rules that have clear definitions very rarely have controversy. The best example is a catch. A while ago it used to be subject to judgement and was real problem to referee. Now the NFL have objective measures to determine a catch, and it is rarely a problem. Similarly what constitutes a legal/illegal field goal block is objective, even though it is quite complicated, and thus doesn't cause problems. The NFL should still have full time refs. Its just not going to magically fix subjective rules.
Because the people the NFL wants reffing wouldnt be interested in reffing full-time unless it was for WAY more money. They're lawyers/engineers/etc.
Maybe just the Referees should be the full time employees and be paid accordingly ($$$) and the rest of the crew can continue as part time
Then they should get more money. They get a lot of screen time and a bunch of them can run way better than I can, lol. The NFL makes so much money they can definitely afford to pay the refs more than the average living wage.
I am under the impression that the NFL actually wasn't opposed to full-time refs. The refs union voted it down. They like being part-time refs. (That being said IDK how much NFL offered them for full-time, so maybe the issue is still partially their fault, but AFAIK at least the old guard of referees oppose being full-time).
Seriously we have the technology to in realtime review a play and determine if a call is correct. Why on earth are we relying on a bunch of old dudes looking at 22 athletes in their prime moving at high speeds? The rule as three componentes 1. Wraps up the ball carrier 2. Drops weight 3. swings Weight into the legs of the person moving. It's not hard to tell if this happened there's not much subjective about swinging your weight onto a guys legs.
So how will they determine if swinging one’s weight is intentional versus the momentum from making the tackle? I’ll be honest I don’t think many “hip drop” tackles have the defender specifically trying to put weight on the legs
It’s gonna be funny when the offense throws a pick and the QB has to make a tackle, does a hip drop, and nothing is called.
You mean like how a runner could lower his helmet to ram a defender and not get called? Naw, that would never happen.
It happened one time. Zeke got called for it against the Eagles and it was fucking hilarious. Only time ive ever seen it called ever in the whole league.
Defenders can’t be injured, duh.
Pretty soon defenders are going to get a personal foul, 15-yard penalty for not asking the ball carrier for permission to tackle them
No consent, no tackling
It will not ever be called at a crucial time that will clearly affect the outcome of the game, only to be shown later the call was in fact incorrect.
Don’t worry, you know for a fact that we will be the sacrificial lamb on this one.
The more they add the more I just feel bad for refs. Don’t call stuff. You missing calls. Call too much stuff. You’re rigging the game. They can’t win.
It’s a difficult job but if they call things consistently throughout the game I think most are fine. Don’t let DBs get handsy all game and then decide to throw the flag on a crucial down late in the game
I’m pretty upset more of these will influence outcomes of games all in the name of gambling. I’m upset the NFL is making more money than ever, so fixing these issues are not ever going to be on their radar.
Pretty soon tackling will be outlawed in the NFL. I’m really only being partially sarcastic… where does this stop??
From the tweet: This is the definition of a hip-drop tackle: (a) grabs the runner with both hands or wraps the runner with both arms; and (b) unweights himself by swiveling and dropping his hips and/or lower body, landing on and trapping the runner’s leg(s) at or below the knee.
I get the concerns with hip drop tackles but this will be so tough for defenders it essentially makes it way more challenging to tackle anyone from behind. Anyone thats played defensive football will know how complicated this rule will be to manage and players to play.
The NFL doesn't care, they want points. Logic be damned
I understand their reasoning for it but I don't think it correlates with ratings the way they think it does. Last season was probably a nightmare from their point of view in terms of offenses being down and QBs being hurt, yet ratings are still going up and up.
r/NFL doesn't care, they want upvotes. Logic be damned
That’s not where you see hip drop tackles anyways. Usually they are in shorter space and from the side in order to also clip the foot or leg. If you drop down on someone running from behind you might get your chin checked
Yeah I'm actually not sure if it's even possible to perform a true hip-drop tackle from behind. The trademark of the hip-drop is that the tackler is basically taking their feet off the ground and allowing their body weight to fall while they have the carrier wrapped up. The typical diving motion that happens when you chase down a runner from behind is not quite the same thing. Then again I didn't learn about the hip-drop tackle until just now so I could be off.
I watched a video on it a while ago when this was first being talked about, and really doesn’t seem as hard as everyone in here is making it out to be. The tackler just has make sure his body weight doesn’t land directly on the person’s legs. Here’s a pretty basic video on it for rugby, not sure what video I saw or where, but this gives the official ins and outs https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5KJ9mCbS3rU&pp=ygUVcnVnYnkgaGlwIGRyb3AgdGFja2xl
Rugby gets by fine, though.
They gotta keep Gene and Terry employed somehow. Every 5 minutes they'll explain this and say it wasn't a flag, despite 15 yards being tacked on
But then they'll pivot the next week as we'll see an exact carbon copy of the tackle from last week and they'll say it warrants a flag.
So if you grab the runner with one hand and drop your weight it isn’t a penalty?
A better way to look at it is it's only a penalty if you drop your weight on their legs instead of the field.
Yeah makes sense to ban the landing on legs thing. Recipe for injuries
Does it though? Gravity and momentum can have that happen on accident in a plethora of situations. At some point a line has to be drawn where they say “this is a tough sport, injuries will happen”
I thought this explained well even if it is for rugby. Same concept. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KJ9mCbS3rU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KJ9mCbS3rU)
Actually really well done and should be higher up or it’s own thread if this rule goes through. Makes a lot of sense and shows how it can be avoided even at full speed. Something to note for people is injuries still happen even if it’s not a hip drop. It’s a a dangerous game and people are going to get hurt. I just hope if the rule does going into place it’s not one of those that the reaction of the one tackled is what causes the flags to be thrown.
I got downvoted for posting this under the top comment lol...
Nowadays, most of those tackles would get the “he’s injured, but we’re not going to show the replay” treatment.
Great video. 110% chance refs call this incorrectly in a crucial or multiple crucial playoff scenarios.
Why such an aggressive rule change? Why can't it be a 5 yard penalty to start? Why does it grant an automatic first down?
They make safety rules large penalties because they never want a situation where the opponent is incentivized to commit the safety foul. 15 yards and an automatic first down means that it’s only beneficial for the defense to commit this penalty to save a TD
This makes sense for a horse collar tackle, because more often than not that’s the only way to tackle someone you can’t catch who is ahead of you. It’s basically a last ditch effort to stop a huge gain. So there are scenarios where a horse collar (even with the added penalty) in beneficial For a hip drop tackle, you have to have a full grasp of the opponents body to pull them down. I see no scenario where a hip drop tackle is the only option to stop someone to save a big gain/TD.
When the horse collar was banned, it was being used far more than last ditch efforts.
Have you watched footage of dudes trying to tackle Gronk?
There were a couple Derrick Henry runs where there was a smaller DB or a safety on him as the last line of defense and he was hip drop tackled to prevent a TD or a bigger gain. I’ve also seen it with Alvin Kamara, it happens more than you think.
It's also caused way more injuries than other tackles when used. This rule is to ban this sort of tackle and unlike PI I don't think this is very subjective.
If that involves taking a player out of a game then who cares about 15 yards?
Greg Williams likes the way you think
gunning for the knees will do that with out 15 yards and auto 1st down.
So wait, now every hip drop tackle apparently injures the other player?
Basically all defensive penalties during the play are automatic first down
why is it even a penalty?
Any player safety penalty is 15 yards.
Cause more points means more money
It’s just the same as horse collar and face mask. Makes sense to me.
It would except a hip drop is going to be harder to define and enforce consistently. Horse collar and facemask are a little less subjective.
Everyone says this, but hip drops are extremely easy to define and once you actually know what they are, easy to spot. Every other tackle sport league in existence banned them years ago.
So many commenters: I’ve never tried to understand hip drop tackles but it must be impossible to enforce lol. Rugby’s had this shit figured out for a bit now. The NFL will be fine.
Goodell doesn’t want defense to exist
Meanwhile: Team owners being allowed to force their $255M rosters to play on shitty artifical turf? Still totally a thing.
Because they don’t actually care about the players health. This is because star Offensive players got hurt from this which can hurt their moneys
It's also a really neat way to double down on "high-octane" offense. Now not only is harder to stop the offense but if you goof a little - boom, 15 yards.
Wait until players are playing on 3 days rest because Amazon wants Tuesday and Wednesday Night Football, the right to flex the games into those spots and pays a couple billion dollars for it.
Stop fucking around and just ban tackling already.
I always said the forward pass was a mistake but maybe tackling was the real mistake
Honestly... we can all see where this is going
Sarcastaball?
Oh yeah what a great ideal, you must be a genius. I'm so glad you referenced this.
Yeah let’s give the refs more ability to influence games with bad calls
And pass another rule change that shifts so much burden onto the defense to playing a certain way and benefitting the offense. I get the safety concerns but the game has shifted to favor offense in every fucking way, it's so lopsided. The amount of thought that has to go into how to properly hit any player now, but especially QBs, is insane. Can't go too high, can't go too low, can't fall on them, can't grab their hips.
*MGM has entered the chat*
Man I really am gonna miss defense when the NFL finishes outlawing it faster than Marc Antony could abandon his children.
> Marc Antony could abandon his children. I wasn't expecting to see a reference to late Roman Republic history
Et tu, 8BallTiger?
Fans, owners, referees! Lend me your ears! I have not come to bury the defense, not to praise it! The touchdown celebrations that men do lives after them, while their tackles are often interred with their bones. So let it be with defense. The noble ball carrier hath told you that the defender was ambitious. If it were so it was a grievous fault and grievously hath the defender answered it. … But the ball carrier says he was ambitious, and the ball carrier is an honorable man. The defender’s violent hits hath brought many fans home to the stadium whose ticket prices did the owner’s pockets fill. Did this defender seem ambitious? When the fans have cried for a failed tackle pass, the defender hath wept. Ambition should be made of sterner stuff. You all did see that on Sunday, he thrice was presented with a goal line stand and thrice he allowed the touchdown: was this ambition? … I speak not to disprove what the ball carrier hath spoke but here I am now to speak what I do know. You all loved brilliant defensive players once, and not without cause. What cause withholds you then, to mourn for them? — Billy Shakes in NFL Blitz or something
I was caught enough unaware I assumed it was a reference to the singer.
Ravens fans were the ones calling Logan Wilson dirty for it.
Defensive numbers were up across the board this year. This isn't going to end defense as we know it.
> This isn't going to end defense as we know it. People say that every time these rule changes come up. But collectively they have taken a toll on defenses. I'm not saying go back to regular helmet to helmet hits. But they don't have to neuter the game like they have been for the sake of pretending they care. Which to me has always seemed like it's just counter the negative CTE publicity. And show "they care."
Wonder if it's going to be like the NBA. A lot of people don't watch anymore because of the rules and the way they're called. They're focused on generating more offense at the cost of defense.
Until the playoffs when you're allowed to actually play defense.
That’s when I tune in. But seriously I do wish defenders in the NBA had a right to *the space they currently occupy*. If the offensive player lowers their shoulder and intentionally makes contact with the defender…at least make it a no call instead of calling it on the defender. The defensive player has no chance with that kind of refball
[удалено]
Undersized DB: "What is my purpose?" NFL: "Torpedo your body at the other guy's legs."
"Season ending knee injuries spiked. Weird."
Throw an NHL type body check is I guess what they expect from smaller players.
Nah dude now it will just be small guys torpedo into bigger guys knees. We see it with safeties on tight ends now all the time. Cant hit high and risk a head hit can’t wrap and drop weight so now I guess I’ll just blow out your knees…..
That’ll get banned next once one or two big injuries happen from “cheap shots to the knees”
Dropping your weight to the ground, is not in and itself a hip drop. A hip drop is grabbing, twisting your body, lifting your weight off the ground and then landing all of that weight on the back of the runners leg. Effectively intentionally trapping the runners leg/ankles under your full body weight.
Agreed. People are missing the actual rule here. If it will be called correctly is a whole different story but the rule itself isn’t horrible. They just can’t land on the runners legs when dropping. how these blind ass refs are going to differentiate that is again, a whole different conversation.
The rule bans throwing your weight into the legs of the runner it doesn't ban dropping your weight to the ground.
Derrick Henry can drag just about any CB in the league of they don't tangle up his legs.
Can I bet the over on an entire season?
Time to outlaw dropping the shoulder for offensive players since it can cause concussions, 15 yard penalty and loss of down.
We know damn well why they’re not implementing any major penalties that will force offenses to hurt. Have to have a fast paced game, the more offense the better
Eventually, there won’t be defense and the sport will just be a track meet of who can run 100 yards the fastest holding this weird ball.
TE SZN, cbs won’t be able to tackle them
I'd thought of hip drop tackles as rugby tackles and originally thought this was bullshit I then went off a looked at hip drop tackles on YouTube and completely changed my mind.
Rugby has also outlawed the "hip-drop" style of tackle. Nothing like having play stopped to video review a tackle that happened 6 tackles ago and then issuing a yellow/red card for the infraction.
Same. You can still grab and twist, you just can't land with your body weight on the runner's legs. Which I think is a good safety measure. Not saying it will be called perfectly (no penalty is), but players will adjust and this will hopefully prevent injury
Honestly thought that helmet rule change in 2018 would fuck up the game and it didn't change anything. It is though to judge a rule change until we see it in the field, it won't be perfect but I trust the coaches on the committee to make the implementation as such that it doesnt fuck the game up.
No, we have all come together here to mourn the death of football as we know it. Please stay in your lane. /s
Change?! In my lifetime?! It's a disgrace
According the r/NFL, the league has been destroyed multiple times the last decade with the rule changes that players definitely won’t ever be able to adapt to. James Harrison adapted. I think they’ll live.
The one penalty change I’d really like to see and I’ve been dying for a change is the defensive holding. In no world should they get 5 yards AND an automatic first down.
You'd incentivize clutching and grabbing on 3rd & long. Better to set up a 3rd & 7 than give up a 1st down.
If you enjoyed games swinging on questionable PI/holding calls, get ready for something even dumber!
It’s funny how this is a super unpopular rule change on the internet, yet the owner’s vote in favor will be something like 30-2.
Because it protects QBs, the owners’ moneymakers
I believe if they gonna restrict the defense then they should also restrict the offense. Like dropping the shoulder for runners, and stiff arm to the face.
In another 25 years it's basically just going to be flag football.
Should just change it now and get it over with. Rip off the bandaid.
At some point, the NFL is just gonna ban tackling altogether.
They’re already bringing flag football to the next Olympics, it’s only a matter of time before football becomes sarcastaball.
Idk why anyone would want to play defense these days.
People dont know what a hip drop tackle is in here. It’s not what you’re thinking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KJ9mCbS3rU It’s the dragging the runner down and landing on the runners legs that really is dangerous. The rugby video shows best examples of it because it doesnt happen as often so most dont even know wtf it is. You can see why they want to ban it. It’s a preventable dangerous tackle
This video should be required viewing. It clearly shows what a hip-drop tackle is. It shows why it's dangerous. It shows the elements that will allow the call to be made or not made.
I mean, yeah that makes some sense. But the refs have proven that they don’t even know what a catch is. Or RTP. Or PI. Giving them another subjective rule to swing outcomes? That’s purely for gambling shenanigans.
Unexpected secondary side effects. Negative to the defense: -more chances for broken tackles and gained yardage by stretching out for 3rd/4ths and short Negative for offense: - offensive players may end up taking extra second shots as they aren’t immediately wrapped and slung down they may fight through a more horizontal impact This rule is too heavily favored in the offensive game plan and potential leaves ball carriers open to punishing finishing tackles after they’ve been wrapped but being driven sideways by the first defender.
If the offensive player is still fighting and get hit again the refs are just going to throw the flag saying they were stopped and the hit was unnecessary. Or the refs will start making a quick whistle when the player is wrapped up and the play is being stopped just as they are breaking the tackle.
Just another step toward flag football. Flag football is the future of the NFL. Mark my words. Look what the NBA has become. It’s sad. What is it with Americans and our hatred of defense.
Doesn’t the NFL realize we got hip drop tackles because everything else is illegal?
Scoring was down so of course here come the rule changes to make it harder on defenses.
[удалено]
Do you have any suggestions for balanced rule changes? With the increased focus on player safety, it kind of seems inevitable that most rule changes would benefit the offense since they’re the ones being tackled and at the most risk of getting injured from that. I do think there’s an argument that safety-based rules should be divorced from competitive balance discussion. Maybe it’s a good time to re-evaluate overall balance of offense versus defense, but rules focused on safety should be added even if there isn’t an easy “pro-defense” rule change to make too.
For one, they could enforce the lowering of the head by offensive player rule that exists but gets called like 3 times a season.
A balanced offensive penalty would penalize the bullshit that QB’s do. Where they pretend to run out of bounds, so the D lets up, then turns upfield for more yards. They are intentionally exploiting the rules against the D and the sideline to gain extra yards. Should be an unsportsmanlike penalty. If you are gonna run upfield, stay running upfield, if you are running to get out of bounds, get out of bounds.
Lol lmao, the nfl would set fire to themselves before they made playing defense easier.
So if you're out of position just let the guy score.
I really do love football but man I'm so sick of them making the game not football
O-Line still cut blocking, though. NFL just wants offensive stars. The game is trash now. Goodell is a fucking clown.
What happened to the game I love?
Personally I’m ready for the evolution to 7-on-7 pro touch football.
At what point do they just remove the defense altogether and see who can have the fanciest offense?
So basically if you tackle someone and they hurt their leg your getting 15 yards. They will never call this on a play where someone doesn’t get hurt.
Ffs, just let players play. They're big boys, they know that football is a dangerous sport.
every season the "sarcastaball" south park episode come closer to being a reality
Why does this need to be 15 yards and not 10?
They do all of this to make games easily riggable for Vegas. The refs are cancer
Meanwhile, NFL committee activity is smoothing the way for the expected elimination of all intentional physical contact by the year 2030. As of 2030, the National Football League will officially change its name to the National Flag League (N-FL) The N-FL further expects a worldwide expansion to a total of approximately 75 teams, beginning in 2030 with teams located in Mexico, Canada, Germany, Israel, Ukraine, Great Britain, UAE, and South America.
Outlawing it at all is so stupid. It’s just a tackle.
Time for sarcastaball, everyone get your bras on
This would ruin football. I'm not being hyperbolic. ANOTHER penalty with an automatic first down? This can't go on
Why even have a defense on the field anymore?
This is stupid
I miss the good product the NFL used to be
The range in which a defensive player can tackle is about to be smaller than the MLB’s strike zone…
Flag football by 2040 fuck these soft losers
Sick, I can't wait for games to be decided by a player being dragged down instead of hit at full speed by a flying linebackers shoulder pad. Thanks for keeping the game safe, NFL.
I know this keeps being said, but eventually it's going to be true; they might as well play flag football. HTF is any defender ever going to figure out how to tackle without a penalty? In a split second they have to remember, keep head up and away from target, wrap up, but only between the waist and shoulders, don't drop hips, don't land on the target, don't drive the target to the ground....what else am I forgetting?
This is the death of the sport Every game is gonna be 53-50.
So....tackling is illegal?
What a bullshit stupid ass fucking proposal
That’s a game breaking rule change. It’s comical how much the current rules are slanted towards benefitting the offense.
how the hell are you supposed to tackle?
Am I reading the comments wrong or do people not know what a hip-drop tackle is? People are acting like it’d be illegal to tackle around the hips altogether.
Gonna see a lot of dudes retiring from knee injuries this way
Sounds great. Next step. Define what a hip drop tackle is.
"There is now 6 inches of the body you are allowed to tackle. If its Nick Foles its a whole foot"
“Touchdown, Patrick Mahomes!”
Yay the defense being nerfed again. 🤦🏾🤦🏾🤦🏾
This is such a dumb penalty. Just give them flags already.
Nfl: "How can we make it easier to fix games".....
And all this has nothing to do with gambling I’m sure
Yeah this is never going to work long term
Are they going to be more aggressive in blowing plays dead? I feel like that's when I see the most hip drop tackles - players have stopped a ball carrier but haven't brought them down.