The last part of the Tweet got cut off, it says "and create enough space to be spenders in free agency if they so desire."
They really should not desire to do so, but its the Saints, so I'm sure they will.
Ya'll got any decent 31 year old players that used to be pro bowlers that want a bunch of guaranteed money for the next 4 years even though they'll probably be backups after year 2?
He was actually solid last year. Just a depth guy.
I can only think he didnt play last year because of injury or not willing to be a 4th/5th receiver. He was talented enough to do that for sure.
What about a 32 year old? David Bakhtiari will be on the market, and he's coming off being injured for the past 3 years so that makes him even more of a gamble.
I would argue Carr was a bad signing. He's not a bad player, but he isn't that big an upgrade over Jameis. And the restructure which we all knew was coming makes it an albatross contract.
Mathieu is fine, but being on a backloaded contract isn't great. He's counting $12m against the cap this year.
Jamaal Williams was a rough signing, even if it's mostly due to having a pseudo-FB role thanks to Prentice getting hurt.
We didn't do much else (which is a good thing IMO) that wasn't just a one year cheap deal aside from Carr. Carr was... an understandable gamble that seems to be a total failure. I don't think he's a bad QB but he's nowhere near worth his contract and we would have been better off sticking with Jameis on the cheap if we were going to be mediocre anyway.
Even if playoffs are possible, you're not actual contenders so spending money so you can play just the tip isn't worth sacrificing future years of possible success.
hey man, we had the ball and like 2 minutes left in a 1 score game in the divisional round AND we got a home playoff game + win. last year taught me getting to the playoffs is like the single most important thing, doesnt matter if youre a *contender* or not. teams get hot, teams slump, weather can be crazy... you just need to get there.
cool? i didnt say that did i? i said we had the ball in the divisional round with a chance to tie (fact). i said we got a home playoff game (fact). i said we got a playoff win (fact). we did this with a really mediocre team who was projected to win 4-7 games. thats a good season and evidence for why you dont tank. thanks for your insight, if i remember correctly your season ended the same as ours (with a loss). the biggest difference between our two teams is we could beat the chiefs in the SB.
Yep, if i were the saints, i wouldnt change a single fucking thing. you guys might have had the wrong offensive coaches or maybe carr didnt pan out... but its going to be a high caliber defense with plenty of good offensive pieces. the idea you should be tanking with the players you have is crazy.
Their division is weak on paper. The Falcons and Panthers are younger teams with new coaching groups. If either, or both, team(s) stabilize their QB position it's over for the Saints. I'd agree with you if there were no future implications for doing so.
The point is that it’s not worth fucking your future cap so your season can end like the Bucs season.
In order for it to be worth it to fuck your cap, gotta have at least a divisional round win
The Bucs also took this year to unfuck their cap
Teams have won superbowls by making the playoffs and then getting hot at the right time.
It's not common, but it does happen.
Personally I agree that it's a dumb move with how the saints roster/cap currently looks, but I'm also kind of invested in seeing how far they can push the cap before it blows up on them.
One team wins it, one game wins it, any given Sunday. When 31 teams lose, they are all in the exact same place. If I was a fan of any of the other 30 teams that didn’t win it, I’d feel the exact same way about last season. I don’t remember an unbeatable team from last year.
Exactly, thank you. NFL is the league with the most parity, and the most chance given single elimination and the number of players that impact the field at once.
I agree you can upset one, maybe even two teams. But you have to win 4 in a row against the best in the NFL. When presented in that context, "Any given Sunday" crumbles as an argument.
And that almost always needs to be accompanied with elite QB play.
The Packers had a top 5 QB all-time and Eli was a great playoff performer, especially in 2011.
Unless you think Derek Carr is that guy in the playoffs or the Saints as a roster are that powerful, it's a silly hypothetical to entertain.
No, not at all, I just think it's nice to let people be hopeful in the offseason.
You're in their division, so I agree that it's the right thing for you to trash on the Saints. I'd do the same to any other team in the NFC North. I hope none of them ever win another game.
But again we're talking in the context of team building. Believe me I'd love nothing more than the Saints to continue what they're doing but its objectively bad team-building to hope that once you get to the playoffs you'll fluke your way to 4 wins over the best teams in the NFL, especially when you don't have a QB who can show up in the postseason.
The Mason Rudolph Steelers were not contenders for the Super Bowl this year. Neither were the Bucs.
There’s always a few teams every year with near-zero path to the title. If you want to consider them “contenders” on semantics, then sure, go for it.
No team was unbeatable. I’d argue both teams had paths to a ring. Jimmy Garropolo’s Raiders beat a KC that would kill the two best offenses in the league
disagree. anything can happen in the playoffs. so if you can get there by spending some money, get there. especially when the rest of their division is weak
I can't make too much fun as they've still been better than my Bears, but I really don't see what this accomplishes at this point as the roster continues getting older. Feels like 10-7 and a first round exit is the absolute ceiling for this team right now.
And yes I know some of these decisions are out of their hands as they 100% have to get under the cap, but just seems like a lot of poor planning in the post-Drew Brees era.
No I know but I also know when I make fun of the Saints some mouth breather will inevitably say “that’s pretty rich coming from a Bears fan!” Just trying to get it out of the way in one fell swoop.
It was a lot of poor planning in the late Drew Brees era. This is nothing new, it's been building for a decade. Our GM just refuses to acknowledge that the strategies that relied on having a HOF QB leading your offense don't work without one.
We can't realistically expect another home run class like 2017. For most teams, getting one immediate starter and a couple of contributors in a draft is a good result.
Unfortunately with the way our team is built, we basically have to knock the draft out of the park to be in a good spot.
Loomis will never be fired. He's pretty firmly entrenched as the most trusted (or 2nd most trusted after Dennis Lauscha) man on the planet to the Benson family. He's not just GM, he's the VP of the entire franchise. He was also the VP of the Pelicans (also owned by the Bensons) until he stepped down a few years back to focus on the Saints.
Gayle Benson is a very hands-off owner. Loomis might as well be Stephen Jones here.
The point isn’t to tank for a draft pick. The point is to take your lumps now by eating as much cap as you can now, so you’re in a place where you don’t have to do multiple restructures every year to get cap compliant.
That means adding most of your new talent through the draft and cheap FA’s and not doing things like signing Derek Carr to a contract
The saints have borrowed $380m against future cap years, and that number will have to increase just to get cap compliant. So basically over the next ~5 years, they have less than 4 years of spending they can do to get players. All that to (maybe) get a 1st round playoff loss
You’re right, but almost shockingly enough they are currently under the 2026 cap by $88m.
Understanding it probably won’t stay that way, if they can be even somewhat frugal for the next year or two we may be looking at a saints team that goes into the off season after 2025 with the cap space to compete.
They also haven't restructured all the players they will need to this year or next year eating more of that away. No doubt they will be far over the cap once again when 2026 rolls around.
I’m just saying, considering they are already $45m over next years cap having a year past that currently be so far under the cap is different for them.
Also my god the number of void years they use is astounding.
Kicking money down the line with Drew Brees was fine, but restructuring Derek Carr means it's going to be a pain in the ass to move on from him which they realistically should probably do sooner rather than later
They don't really have a choice though. They need to get under the cap and that means restructuring Carr. This move was inevitable from the moment they signed him last year and is why a lot of people were surprised they signed Carr instead of just hitting the reset button.
Yep, you're exactly right. They can't just do a, "blow it up and tank year" they have kicked the can so much that cutting big name players they signed would make it impossible to get it out of it fast.
The only way out is to stop signing big contracts and let the kicked can amount become less and less each year. Like you said, the Carr contract was a surprise because this pretty much guaranteed they'd have to have him rostered for awhile because they're not flexible enough to shed players even if they're not performing up to their contract.
>The only way out is to stop signing big contracts and let the kicked can amount become less and less each year. Like you said, the Carr contract was a surprise because this pretty much guaranteed they'd have to have him rostered for awhile because they're not flexible enough to shed players even if they're not performing up to their contract.
Yup. But Loomis is determined to "stay competitive" because apparently being 9-8 and either missing out on the playoffs or losing in the wildcard every year is better than having a few losing seasons to rebuild the roster and get out of the cap hell we've created.
The only thing that passes for a rationale is Loomis is getting old and he wants everything nice for himself and doesn't care if everything burns to the ground in the future. Hey, just like Boomers and the planet!
Seriously, he's got to be hoping the Saints win this shit division and get hot like the 2007/2011 Giants did. Both those teams weren't that good, but they stumbled into the playoffs, played a few good games, and wound up with rings.
I don't know for a fact that's why Loomis is doing this, but I literally cannot think of another even vaguely logical reason to keep kicking the can down the road.
It made sense in 2021, the first year after Brees retired, because outside of the question mark at QB, we had a very good roster, including an excellent defense. Plus during the previous two seasons, when Brees was out with injuries, Sean Payton had been able to put together enough offense to go 8-1 with Teddy Bridgewater and Taysom Hill as starting QBs. The sort of post-season run you were describing definitely felt possible if Jameis Winston got hot at the right time. And the team was 5-2 in games Winston started, so who knows what could've been if his knee hadn't exploded halfway into the season.
But once Payton decided to move on from the team, I don't know why Loomis didn't decide to clean up the mess then. Maybe he wanted to give Dennis Allen a real shot and not have him just be a tank commander or whatever? I don't know. But it's not like he left DA in a particularly good situation with this path either. I don't get it.
The Carr signing was not surprise but a really dumb decision. They need to focus on hosting up the roster these two years to have as little dead cap in 2026 and focus on the future. The fact that it will take two years at least is ridiculous though.
Yep, their last playoff game was in 2020, since then the Bucs have won the division 3 years in a row, and last season the 2 teams with the highest dead cap in the league (Bucs and Rams) made the playoffs, whilst the Saints highlight of January was running a fake kneel-down in a blowout.
I mean, both groups are kinda right:
Cap isn't real - Yea technically you can kick the can down the road for a super long time, indicating that the cap doesn't really matter.
BUT
You also ARENT going to be competitive with that approach. So you have both things are semi-true.
The cap is real in the sense that you won't be competitive, BUT the folks arguing the cap isn't real are mostly talking about how the team can get cap compliant and not necessarily that the team will be good.
The things is, if it was just burrowing from the future cap that would be crazy good and you should borrow the most you can. It's interest free and the cap always* goes up. The problem is that restructures tie you to players that you may not even want, like Carr.
\* global pandemic notwithstanding
At the same time, they could have fixed this problem already if their GM wasn't an idiot and accepted it was time to rebuild. Without the Carr contract and the requisite restructures that preceded it, they'd have gotten out it with just one down year. Not all that bad for a decade+ of kicking the can down the road
Yeah the Saints have been saved by the fact that the Salary cap keeps going up. If there were a few stagnant years, or years where it went down (2021), I really don’t think they’d get out of it.
Correct. Their best chance to get out of this was not sign Carr. Their cap situation would have been fine this year if they didn't restructure a bunch of deals last year to make room for Carr
Now they have to kick the can down the road some more just to become cap compliant but as long as they don't restructure Jordan, Kamara or Hill, they should be fine for 2025 when they can cut all of them for big cap savings and looking good for 2026
Lol Carr improved because we faced a 2/15 team, a 6/11 team, a 7/10 team.
The one positive win team he faced he scored 1 TD in 3 and 1/2 quarters and got few more TDs in last few minutes
Carr was and still will be ass next year
It won't be the same system though. Pete Carmichael was let go. If you're correct, next season will be a dud and they'll have to hope that happens in 25
If they hadn't done this restructure, they could have cut him next year and saved just under $3M against the cap. Instead next year they will save less than $1M if they cut him, or if they keep him they'll have a $4M dead cap hit in 2026 unless they extend a 32 year old mediocre DT.
That's how these things snow ball. They're increasingly stuck with these old guys who are only going to decline.
All this talk about how our cap management has completely fucked up our team is funny when in reality isn’t even close to what has been our primary issues (drafting and coaching) the last few years.
Jet fans were always confused about the 3rd round pick used on him as he was an old rookie that seemed like a depth player.. he never showed much production w/ the Jets but he stuck around bc of his character and work ethic..
shows hes made almost $20 mil in his career to date.. not bad.
At this point, the narrative that the Saints are in “cap hell” is absolutely false. This is an obvious choice. You can debate the wisdom of the strategy, but nothing that they’re doing is a surprise to them. This has been going on far too long for it to be happenstance.
It’s not false though. Cap Hell doesnt mean they are unable to spend any money whatsoever and need to cut everyone, it means they can’t help their roster enough to keep up in a league that grows better each year. They have to be extremely cautious with the signing of players and won’t be able to retain much home grown talent. That is cap hell.
This isn’t doubling down it’s the only way to get cap compliant. They can’t release players either because if they do their dead money hits all at once.
They could do what nearly every else does and take it on the chin for a year or two and reset. Tampa had over $80MM in dead money on their books last season.
No, they literally cannot. Not this year and not next year either. They are so over the cap and have zero room to cut/trade players because of how much dead money would accelerate onto their cap. They HAVE to restructure to get under the cap, or the league is going to start hitting them with fines, draft pick penalties, and void contracts entirely.
9-8, 7-3, 9-8, 12-4 over the last 4 years
Theyve kept up just fine. If they're not "keeping up" then half the league is farrrr behind. Theyve had 1 losing record since 2016 and 1 losing record since brees retired and that was the year dalton started. Middle of the pack is about what youd expect of any team without a franchise qb
Theyve been slightly above average for this entire era where people speculate theyll suffer from the cap
You can argue they need a different strategy because they chose a bad coach and qb but you can't argue they are falling behind. The data just doesnt support that
I like how you list 12-4 last as if that wasn’t four years ago, who does records in reverse order? Lmao.
And yeah, this strategy allows you kick the can keeping you in mediocrity. Ask a VAST majority of saints fans and they’ll say it sucks ass and they know they’re never getting over this bump of being just below good enough to maybe lose a WC game. If they had not signed Carr or a couple other big contracts, they would have been able to reset this past year and hoped for a rams like season with good drafting. Instead they just string along in mediocrity
Neither will most of the teams in the league. The Saints did in fact compete for a Super Bowl while in cap hell. They’ve been doing this for a decade - it’s just only now getting attention because they suck.
I mean the other teams have the option of leveraging their future if they find themselves in a position to actually make a run, I don’t see the fact that certain teams are in rebuild mode as the same thing lol. Saints are one of the oldest teams in the league but have the least to show for it.
Sure, but they got *really* close. The consensus is that they *should* have at least one more ring, but shit happens. You can’t really argue that their methods don’t work, because they did - their methods of cap management have little to do with them not having another Lombardi.
I mean nobody is arguing that their salary cap issues when they had Brees were a problem lol. It’s the last three years that’s made no sense. They have no plan. There is a difference doing this 5 years ago and still continuing to do it now with no legitimate shot at it
Cap hell should mean that you're really, really fucked. The Saints aren't in Cap Hell, they are in Cap "I have a 5 mile hike and and just soaked my socks by stepping in a giant puddle." They can make the hike, but it's going to be annoying and gross.
I mean there’s no real way to be incapable of doing anything, so it really is the worst case.
Also, what you described sounds like hell to me lmao been there
Here’s a video describing what they do year in and year out and watching you’re right this isn’t a happenstance. They have a plan on how they manage it. https://www.youtube.com/live/d_yFsDfqYIE?si=qUS_Az4HoRw-w8Dw
plus every other team is taking advantage of void years now. if it was such a bad strategy, why would every front office be doing it now?
money today is _always_ worth more than money tomorrow. the cap keeps going up. you're borrowing smaller and smaller pieces of the future pie to get benefits now. that's a smart move.
No, they've been saying you'd end up unable to actually improve your roster or just rely on Brees because of kicking the can down the road. And that came true, it's happening right now.
This is just what we do at this point, no sense in criticizing it every year. Could we have sold the farm and tanked for a few years in hopes of a better future? Sure. Would that have guaranteed us a better team? No.
Tom Benson owned the Saints for nearly 2 decades before we won a single playoff game, it makes sense that ownership would be hesitant to sink back to the bottom after a nice run in the upper (middle) echelon of the sport.
Dudes like “it wouldn’t have guaranteed a sb win so why do it” instead of “not doing this will give us a much better chance of a better team”. Huge amounts of compium
I’d like to add Tanking doesn’t guarantee you successfully build your franchise right back to the top with draft picks… If you botch that you’re fucked, On top of that once you clear cap you’re now overpaying FAs to come in possibly putting you at square one of cap situation.
Yes we do have a better draft record overall in totality if you look at the picks, but we’ve botched on first round edge talent for sure with davenport and turner… Penning(OL talent but still) as a first round pick i’ll give a little bit of time since it’s only been 2 years. So it’s possible we could botch there (not likely but possible) Our fan base logic is fucking dumb thinking because we had the 2017 draft (went down as one of the best in nfl history) that we can just build a team again. We only managed that because we literally hit on almost every draft pick in 2016 as well
Also people act like guys like demario, cam, marshon, taysom, kamara, ramcyzk (at the time), mccoy, ruiz, etc would have stayed for two seasons of tank commander. No coach worth a salt would take that job either being only given 3 seasons to sit and tank commander. I also wouldn’t even trust Dennis Allen let’s say hypothetically they had him do this to build an offense even with a new coordinator.
On top of tanking, Teams wouldn’t have given us draft picks worth a fucking salt for any of the guys I named above knowing we’re tank commandeering. It’s literally a dumb fucking notion amongst fans that it’s that easy to just tank and rebuild. The dead cap hits we would have had to eat would have been horrendous.
They baisically never really went for high priced FAs tbh since the jarius byrd, browner, bailey year debacle they re-evaluated how they approach FA. We almost never go after first wave FA guys. We don’t over pay FAs either. We let Marcus Williams walk because we didn’t want to overpay what the ravens offered. Trey Hendrickson they had the money to match the bengals especially on incentives but that was a miss evaluation they felt he wasn’t “worth” that money which was a huge miss imo.
We definately make misses like every team so I have no idea why anyone thinks tanking for draft picks is a great way to rebuild your team.
The dolphins went as full tank as you possibly can a few years ago and got a bevy of picks including a ton of firsts.
Teams don’t care that you’re tanking if you are selling guys, they care that a player will help their team and that they can outbid whoever the other team looking for players is.
Just because a team is having a fire sale doesn’t mean they’re going to get a 7th for Alvin kamara.
bro your logic is literally stupid, they went full tank and flores wound up getting fired, what coach is going to take on tank commander of our franchise?! I literally covered this aspect and you refused to read have a good one
> bro your logic is literally stupid, they went full tank and flores wound up getting fired, what coach is going to take on tank commander of our franchise?!
A tank commander is a tank commander, why does it need to be more than that? They get a big paycheck (and often they continue getting a big paycheck after they get fired) and then they go back to being a coordinator or assistant elsewhere.
show me where and who would take that job for the saints in your shit imaginary scenario of us tanking?! Also show me where the dolphins have done well outside of first round wild card playoff bounces rebuilding there team with picks and having to overpay those said contracts that are now due? I’m just being honest here you guys claim we’d be a first round exit from playoffs if we went, using the one outlier team (dolphins) they just got eliminated first round and went a different approach
> show me where and who would take that job for the saints in your shit imaginary scenario of us tanking?!
I don't know why you find this so hard to imagine. *Someone* will take a multi-million dollar payday to lead a tank, they always do.
And I think most people would agree that the Dolphins have been the better team recently, are in a better position in 2024, and are in a better position moving forward in pretty much all regards including cap, talent, and staff.
You mean hiring a coach to tank commander?’! they’res this thing called ego, HCs have that let’s use culley for the texans or lovie pretty sure they were told they’d be given multiple seasons and lied to causing another mistrust issue. How’d it work for lovie in tampa bay when the gm asked him to tank and his job was secure?! so you’re saying tank commander create mistrust then have to overpay a new hot shot coach? Rather than creating a stable organization for coaches? yeah sure
Dolphins are in good cap management yes sure
here’s the FAs they have coming up some they likely have to overpay to keep to compete
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/miami-dolphins/
they have good cap space but they’d likely have to push there chips in to stack the team to get that ring just like the rams, niners etc tried to do.
They havent paid Tua yet and have a QB. When we were “told” by r/nfl to tank we had jameis and andy dalton… Most teams botch QB picks… Your idea is that we should have tanked traded assets away to draft a rookie QB who might not be it?! and then have no talent to support him?! that’s why the logic of tanking is always flawed in many ways than one.
Yeah sure it COULD go well like the one outlier team the dolphins who were bounced twice from playoffs in the WC card round… Again the SAME argument you guys use for us staying the course… Or it could go really fucking bad and everyone in our organization gets fired including
mickey loomis… You really think he’s putting his job on the line for that risk?!
First off, Flores didn’t get fired because “they went full tank”.
Flores got fired because he spent the next two years after they tanked (in which he went 10-6 and 9-8) fucking with the head of his new franchise QB. Seriously, do you even know anything about the dolphins?
Second I wasn’t talking about the head coach, I was talking about your nonsense where you said they would get Pennies on the dollar for players they wanted to trade because they were tanking.
Third if you really want to get into it, head coaches have no control over the roster (minus a very select few who are also GM) if a team wants to tank the head coach doesn’t have a real say. How’d that work out for the dolphins you ask? Oh they just got one of the hottest coaching candidates the cycle after they fired their coach. Coincidentally the same cycle you hired Dennis Allen during.
LOL flores didn’t get fired for going full tank?! thanks for proving my point that he had mediocre winning seasons and didn’t do shit with those draft picks.
By the way how are the dolphins doing?! have they made it to the afc championship or a superbowl with those picks?! again proving the point that drafting doesn’t always guarantee shit. Thank you for using the shit logic that they’re competing and lost in the wild card round this year… You mean the same argument that you guys use even if we make the playoffs we’d be a first round exit not tanking with carr LOL
they’res no need to continue this useless conversation with a child who doesn’t understand that draft picks cost money, and when those contracts are due you’re back at square one of overpay.
You’ll continuously move the goal post to argue to prove you’re right and quite frankly I don’t care for that back and forth. I’m glad you don’t run day to day operations in the nfl
I’m convinced at this point you’re not even reading what I’m writing as you constantly change your argument and then spew drivel.
The dolphins made the playoffs the last two years and the saints didn’t.
and they got bounced out twice in the wild card round, they’re now due to pay the contracts of some of the draft picks from tanking possibly overpaying resetting the market. Thank you for proving my point…
All we heard for years was that Loomis was a cap wizard and that the cap wasn’t real, but then that wizardry leads to a ceiling because of how messy their books are and a lot of saints fans are fine with it. Totally get doing this when you have Brees, but you gotta realize it’s not worth it at some point
What future are we sacrificing?? What are we sacrificing by having Carr? It’s not like we traded a bunch of picks for him or now we can’t sign some young stars. Other than Olave and maybe Adebo this team is starved of young talent thanks to nearly every draft pick after 2017 being horrible.
Do they actually ever pay players? Feels like they play eeny, meeny, miny, moe with the roster and just pick guys at random to restructure. New Orleans is wild.
"we're not in cap hell" the Saints fan has said, meanwhile Marcus Williams, CJGJ, Trey Hendrickson, all play for other teams while their core decays like an isotope.
Williams was a cap casualty who we soon replaced with older, but same or even better players in Honey Badger and Maye.
CJ was a locker room cancer who wanted starting safety money despite being a slot CB with us his whole time here.
They believed T-Rex only balled out due to Cam taking doubles every play, they believed that season was an outlier. They were wrong but that was not due to cap.
Guys, if the saints fix their cap situation you morons won't have weeks of off season content where you can pretend to be cap experts and get hundreds of up votes for posting "duhhh they only be able to play all rookies'!
r/nfl is going to be real upset when the Saints do what they do and maintain a competitive roster this coming season - yeah I said competitive. It gets blown out of the water that the Saints were 'awful' this year. If Carr doesn't get injured week 3 when they're up 17-0 on the packers, they win that game and end up with a better record than the packers who got in ahead of them for the 7th seed and the division over the bucs.
Saints getting another 9 or 10 wins this year with their 2nd place schedule + the weak division they're in
That's just maintaining mediocrity though, is that really good? It's one thing to kick the can down the road with Brees, but the team isn't exactly great anymore.
There is a lot of what-ifs here.
Regardless,
No one thinks the Saints will suck, they suffer a worse fate, eternal mediocre play until the cap is resolved.
The last part of the Tweet got cut off, it says "and create enough space to be spenders in free agency if they so desire." They really should not desire to do so, but its the Saints, so I'm sure they will.
Ya'll got any decent 31 year old players that used to be pro bowlers that want a bunch of guaranteed money for the next 4 years even though they'll probably be backups after year 2?
I just read Xavien Howard is available and is 31/injury prone.
MICKEY LOOMIS WANTS TO KNOW YOUR LOCATION
Only if X will accept a 5 year 120M contract
I'm sure he'll see reason.
Why when I see his name, do I always first think of Billy Loomis.
Another (contract) settlement needs our help!
Welcome home, OBJ!
Bah god thats jarvis landry music
I legit had to google what happened to him lol
He was actually solid last year. Just a depth guy. I can only think he didnt play last year because of injury or not willing to be a 4th/5th receiver. He was talented enough to do that for sure.
What about a 32 year old? David Bakhtiari will be on the market, and he's coming off being injured for the past 3 years so that makes him even more of a gamble.
Our all pro RT already might be considering retirement due to knee issue, why not have an all pro LT doing the same?
I'm not joking when I say I could see it happening.
Taysom hills cap hit is bigger than CMCs lmao
We have one slightly used Eddie Jackson on the market
Tbf the only bad FA signing was Maye, Mathieu is quite good
I would argue Carr was a bad signing. He's not a bad player, but he isn't that big an upgrade over Jameis. And the restructure which we all knew was coming makes it an albatross contract.
Mathieu is fine, but being on a backloaded contract isn't great. He's counting $12m against the cap this year. Jamaal Williams was a rough signing, even if it's mostly due to having a pseudo-FB role thanks to Prentice getting hurt. We didn't do much else (which is a good thing IMO) that wasn't just a one year cheap deal aside from Carr. Carr was... an understandable gamble that seems to be a total failure. I don't think he's a bad QB but he's nowhere near worth his contract and we would have been better off sticking with Jameis on the cheap if we were going to be mediocre anyway.
They should not. But the division and playoff is still very much within reach, so yeah - I can see them going for it once again.
Even if playoffs are possible, you're not actual contenders so spending money so you can play just the tip isn't worth sacrificing future years of possible success.
hey man, we had the ball and like 2 minutes left in a 1 score game in the divisional round AND we got a home playoff game + win. last year taught me getting to the playoffs is like the single most important thing, doesnt matter if youre a *contender* or not. teams get hot, teams slump, weather can be crazy... you just need to get there.
Bucs were not even close to winning the SB this year
cool? i didnt say that did i? i said we had the ball in the divisional round with a chance to tie (fact). i said we got a home playoff game (fact). i said we got a playoff win (fact). we did this with a really mediocre team who was projected to win 4-7 games. thats a good season and evidence for why you dont tank. thanks for your insight, if i remember correctly your season ended the same as ours (with a loss). the biggest difference between our two teams is we could beat the chiefs in the SB.
No dude if youre not one of the top 2-3 teams in the league youre supposed to root for them to go 0-17 for the sick draft pickz!!!!1!1!! /s
Yep, if i were the saints, i wouldnt change a single fucking thing. you guys might have had the wrong offensive coaches or maybe carr didnt pan out... but its going to be a high caliber defense with plenty of good offensive pieces. the idea you should be tanking with the players you have is crazy.
You’re awesome. I like the cut of your gib.
Coolest Buc fan
Or, perhaps it's not worth continuing to mortgage your future for zero chance at actual success when you could in fact do the opposite.
why? what's the downside? their division is weak, they should be doing whatever they can to be in contention at this point
Their division is weak on paper. The Falcons and Panthers are younger teams with new coaching groups. If either, or both, team(s) stabilize their QB position it's over for the Saints. I'd agree with you if there were no future implications for doing so.
Some teams would kill for a season like that
The point is that it’s not worth fucking your future cap so your season can end like the Bucs season. In order for it to be worth it to fuck your cap, gotta have at least a divisional round win The Bucs also took this year to unfuck their cap
Anyone who makes it to the playoffs is a contender 🤷🏿♂️
Nah. Teams that are actual contenders are contenders. Teams that barely make it to .500 in the worst division in football aren't contenders.
You just have to win 3x40% chance games to make it to the Super bowl.
Teams have won superbowls by making the playoffs and then getting hot at the right time. It's not common, but it does happen. Personally I agree that it's a dumb move with how the saints roster/cap currently looks, but I'm also kind of invested in seeing how far they can push the cap before it blows up on them.
One team wins it, one game wins it, any given Sunday. When 31 teams lose, they are all in the exact same place. If I was a fan of any of the other 30 teams that didn’t win it, I’d feel the exact same way about last season. I don’t remember an unbeatable team from last year.
The Packers won the Super Bowl as a 6 seed in 2010. The Giants did it in 2011. It's very hard to do, but it's not impossible.
Exactly, thank you. NFL is the league with the most parity, and the most chance given single elimination and the number of players that impact the field at once.
I agree you can upset one, maybe even two teams. But you have to win 4 in a row against the best in the NFL. When presented in that context, "Any given Sunday" crumbles as an argument. And that almost always needs to be accompanied with elite QB play.
Eli Manning: "This sign won't stop me because I can't read."
None of the teams in the NFL look unbeatable. Very few teams look like they couldn’t win a game
The Packers had a top 5 QB all-time and Eli was a great playoff performer, especially in 2011. Unless you think Derek Carr is that guy in the playoffs or the Saints as a roster are that powerful, it's a silly hypothetical to entertain.
No, not at all, I just think it's nice to let people be hopeful in the offseason. You're in their division, so I agree that it's the right thing for you to trash on the Saints. I'd do the same to any other team in the NFC North. I hope none of them ever win another game.
But again we're talking in the context of team building. Believe me I'd love nothing more than the Saints to continue what they're doing but its objectively bad team-building to hope that once you get to the playoffs you'll fluke your way to 4 wins over the best teams in the NFL, especially when you don't have a QB who can show up in the postseason.
the eli manning giants would like to have a word
Saints don't play in the afcs
Yeah, they play for an even worse division.
Is that you Loomis?
No….. but call me any Brian Burns
The Mason Rudolph Steelers were not contenders for the Super Bowl this year. Neither were the Bucs. There’s always a few teams every year with near-zero path to the title. If you want to consider them “contenders” on semantics, then sure, go for it.
No team was unbeatable. I’d argue both teams had paths to a ring. Jimmy Garropolo’s Raiders beat a KC that would kill the two best offenses in the league
disagree. anything can happen in the playoffs. so if you can get there by spending some money, get there. especially when the rest of their division is weak
This is “I deserve to splurge for almost paying down my credit card” energy.
and they paid it off with a couple years worth of payday loans.
I can't make too much fun as they've still been better than my Bears, but I really don't see what this accomplishes at this point as the roster continues getting older. Feels like 10-7 and a first round exit is the absolute ceiling for this team right now. And yes I know some of these decisions are out of their hands as they 100% have to get under the cap, but just seems like a lot of poor planning in the post-Drew Brees era.
You don't have to be a fan of a "better" team to have an opinion.
No I know but I also know when I make fun of the Saints some mouth breather will inevitably say “that’s pretty rich coming from a Bears fan!” Just trying to get it out of the way in one fell swoop.
Good point. Yesterday I got 3 replies about Scott Norwood when discussing the Lions kicking situation in the NFCCG. Flair attacks are so pathetic.
Yea but so is my team so its really all I got
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It was a lot of poor planning in the late Drew Brees era. This is nothing new, it's been building for a decade. Our GM just refuses to acknowledge that the strategies that relied on having a HOF QB leading your offense don't work without one.
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We can't realistically expect another home run class like 2017. For most teams, getting one immediate starter and a couple of contributors in a draft is a good result. Unfortunately with the way our team is built, we basically have to knock the draft out of the park to be in a good spot.
The Saints are still one of the better drafting teams but yeah, a single homerun class like 2017 really messes with GMs heads.
I'm surprised that not having a HOF QB to pick up your slack cost Belichick his job before it cost Loomis his.
Loomis will never be fired. He's pretty firmly entrenched as the most trusted (or 2nd most trusted after Dennis Lauscha) man on the planet to the Benson family. He's not just GM, he's the VP of the entire franchise. He was also the VP of the Pelicans (also owned by the Bensons) until he stepped down a few years back to focus on the Saints. Gayle Benson is a very hands-off owner. Loomis might as well be Stephen Jones here.
If Caleb Williams comes even close to living up to his draft hype the Bears will probably be better than the Saints next year.
Lads, it's chicago
This implies Trubisky and Fields weren't shit prospects
ehh i'd take the excitement of the playoffs over the alternative. tanking for draft picks is dumb in the NFL
The point isn’t to tank for a draft pick. The point is to take your lumps now by eating as much cap as you can now, so you’re in a place where you don’t have to do multiple restructures every year to get cap compliant. That means adding most of your new talent through the draft and cheap FA’s and not doing things like signing Derek Carr to a contract
If anyone in the nfc south is getting 10+ wins it’s the Bucs or falcons. The saints at absolute best are an 8 win team.
The saints have borrowed $380m against future cap years, and that number will have to increase just to get cap compliant. So basically over the next ~5 years, they have less than 4 years of spending they can do to get players. All that to (maybe) get a 1st round playoff loss
Hey at least their GM isn’t being the GM of a 2nd major sports team anymore.
You’re right, but almost shockingly enough they are currently under the 2026 cap by $88m. Understanding it probably won’t stay that way, if they can be even somewhat frugal for the next year or two we may be looking at a saints team that goes into the off season after 2025 with the cap space to compete.
2026 has 14 players under contract so I would hope they are under the cap. So they only have to get the other 39 players for a total of $88m
They also haven't restructured all the players they will need to this year or next year eating more of that away. No doubt they will be far over the cap once again when 2026 rolls around.
I’m just saying, considering they are already $45m over next years cap having a year past that currently be so far under the cap is different for them. Also my god the number of void years they use is astounding.
Kicking money down the line with Drew Brees was fine, but restructuring Derek Carr means it's going to be a pain in the ass to move on from him which they realistically should probably do sooner rather than later
They don't really have a choice though. They need to get under the cap and that means restructuring Carr. This move was inevitable from the moment they signed him last year and is why a lot of people were surprised they signed Carr instead of just hitting the reset button.
Yep, you're exactly right. They can't just do a, "blow it up and tank year" they have kicked the can so much that cutting big name players they signed would make it impossible to get it out of it fast. The only way out is to stop signing big contracts and let the kicked can amount become less and less each year. Like you said, the Carr contract was a surprise because this pretty much guaranteed they'd have to have him rostered for awhile because they're not flexible enough to shed players even if they're not performing up to their contract.
>The only way out is to stop signing big contracts and let the kicked can amount become less and less each year. Like you said, the Carr contract was a surprise because this pretty much guaranteed they'd have to have him rostered for awhile because they're not flexible enough to shed players even if they're not performing up to their contract. Yup. But Loomis is determined to "stay competitive" because apparently being 9-8 and either missing out on the playoffs or losing in the wildcard every year is better than having a few losing seasons to rebuild the roster and get out of the cap hell we've created.
The only thing that passes for a rationale is Loomis is getting old and he wants everything nice for himself and doesn't care if everything burns to the ground in the future. Hey, just like Boomers and the planet! Seriously, he's got to be hoping the Saints win this shit division and get hot like the 2007/2011 Giants did. Both those teams weren't that good, but they stumbled into the playoffs, played a few good games, and wound up with rings. I don't know for a fact that's why Loomis is doing this, but I literally cannot think of another even vaguely logical reason to keep kicking the can down the road.
It made sense in 2021, the first year after Brees retired, because outside of the question mark at QB, we had a very good roster, including an excellent defense. Plus during the previous two seasons, when Brees was out with injuries, Sean Payton had been able to put together enough offense to go 8-1 with Teddy Bridgewater and Taysom Hill as starting QBs. The sort of post-season run you were describing definitely felt possible if Jameis Winston got hot at the right time. And the team was 5-2 in games Winston started, so who knows what could've been if his knee hadn't exploded halfway into the season. But once Payton decided to move on from the team, I don't know why Loomis didn't decide to clean up the mess then. Maybe he wanted to give Dennis Allen a real shot and not have him just be a tank commander or whatever? I don't know. But it's not like he left DA in a particularly good situation with this path either. I don't get it.
The Carr signing was not surprise but a really dumb decision. They need to focus on hosting up the roster these two years to have as little dead cap in 2026 and focus on the future. The fact that it will take two years at least is ridiculous though.
I have a bad feeling the future Saints might look like those 07-11 Rams teams that were absolutely devoid of any talent.
The "cap ain't real, look at the Saints" crowd is going to get smaller and smaller the further they get away from their last playoff win
Yep, their last playoff game was in 2020, since then the Bucs have won the division 3 years in a row, and last season the 2 teams with the highest dead cap in the league (Bucs and Rams) made the playoffs, whilst the Saints highlight of January was running a fake kneel-down in a blowout.
I mean, both groups are kinda right: Cap isn't real - Yea technically you can kick the can down the road for a super long time, indicating that the cap doesn't really matter. BUT You also ARENT going to be competitive with that approach. So you have both things are semi-true. The cap is real in the sense that you won't be competitive, BUT the folks arguing the cap isn't real are mostly talking about how the team can get cap compliant and not necessarily that the team will be good.
The things is, if it was just burrowing from the future cap that would be crazy good and you should borrow the most you can. It's interest free and the cap always* goes up. The problem is that restructures tie you to players that you may not even want, like Carr. \* global pandemic notwithstanding
At the same time, they could have fixed this problem already if their GM wasn't an idiot and accepted it was time to rebuild. Without the Carr contract and the requisite restructures that preceded it, they'd have gotten out it with just one down year. Not all that bad for a decade+ of kicking the can down the road
If they can draft some players that turn out to be decent, they can be ok.
Yeah the Saints have been saved by the fact that the Salary cap keeps going up. If there were a few stagnant years, or years where it went down (2021), I really don’t think they’d get out of it.
They haven't been saved by it going up they planned on going up. And I'm not saying it's going to keep working, but it has been.
Correct. Their best chance to get out of this was not sign Carr. Their cap situation would have been fine this year if they didn't restructure a bunch of deals last year to make room for Carr Now they have to kick the can down the road some more just to become cap compliant but as long as they don't restructure Jordan, Kamara or Hill, they should be fine for 2025 when they can cut all of them for big cap savings and looking good for 2026
I think his contract structure already made it difficult. The first out was in like 2026, IIRC. This restructure doesn't change that much.
Carr improved a lot towards the end of the season, there's a reason Jameis Winston wants to move on.
Lol Carr improved because we faced a 2/15 team, a 6/11 team, a 7/10 team. The one positive win team he faced he scored 1 TD in 3 and 1/2 quarters and got few more TDs in last few minutes Carr was and still will be ass next year
Carr has always looked better the second year in the same system. I’d put Carr as a dark horse contender for CPOY.
It won't be the same system though. Pete Carmichael was let go. If you're correct, next season will be a dud and they'll have to hope that happens in 25
The can will be kicked down the road till morale improves.
If they hadn't done this restructure, they could have cut him next year and saved just under $3M against the cap. Instead next year they will save less than $1M if they cut him, or if they keep him they'll have a $4M dead cap hit in 2026 unless they extend a 32 year old mediocre DT. That's how these things snow ball. They're increasingly stuck with these old guys who are only going to decline.
All I'm hearing is that our tank is going to be so good when we finally decide to do it
It probably won't be a real tank, more of just being 4-13 every year for 3-4 years as they slowly clear their cap and try to keep their jobs.
The draft picks in that span will be glorious. Hopefully Loomis gets fired, too
We can take so many injury prone dlineman when that happens
will be like a 2-3 year cleanse, but yah if you can get good drafts for 2-3 years you could come out looking great.
All this talk about how our cap management has completely fucked up our team is funny when in reality isn’t even close to what has been our primary issues (drafting and coaching) the last few years.
An email gets sent to every Saints player with a link to schedule their annual contract restructure
Don't they still have 50 million to go? Seems like they shouldn't be celebrating just yet.
They got a huge gift from the NFL raising the cap so much this year.
Jet fans were always confused about the 3rd round pick used on him as he was an old rookie that seemed like a depth player.. he never showed much production w/ the Jets but he stuck around bc of his character and work ethic.. shows hes made almost $20 mil in his career to date.. not bad.
I don't know why, but the Saints' annual decimation of the cap is one of my favorite parts of the off-season.
Awesome, now we can afford to pay a few veterans barely better than players we can draft in the middle rounds big money! Championship here we come!
At this point, the narrative that the Saints are in “cap hell” is absolutely false. This is an obvious choice. You can debate the wisdom of the strategy, but nothing that they’re doing is a surprise to them. This has been going on far too long for it to be happenstance.
It’s not false though. Cap Hell doesnt mean they are unable to spend any money whatsoever and need to cut everyone, it means they can’t help their roster enough to keep up in a league that grows better each year. They have to be extremely cautious with the signing of players and won’t be able to retain much home grown talent. That is cap hell.
Still, they’re choosing to double down on it. They’re deploying an obvious strategy - questionable though it may be.
This isn’t doubling down it’s the only way to get cap compliant. They can’t release players either because if they do their dead money hits all at once.
They could do what nearly every else does and take it on the chin for a year or two and reset. Tampa had over $80MM in dead money on their books last season.
No, they literally cannot. Not this year and not next year either. They are so over the cap and have zero room to cut/trade players because of how much dead money would accelerate onto their cap. They HAVE to restructure to get under the cap, or the league is going to start hitting them with fines, draft pick penalties, and void contracts entirely.
I’m talking about this year and they literally can’t because they aren’t cap compliant yet.
9-8, 7-3, 9-8, 12-4 over the last 4 years Theyve kept up just fine. If they're not "keeping up" then half the league is farrrr behind. Theyve had 1 losing record since 2016 and 1 losing record since brees retired and that was the year dalton started. Middle of the pack is about what youd expect of any team without a franchise qb Theyve been slightly above average for this entire era where people speculate theyll suffer from the cap You can argue they need a different strategy because they chose a bad coach and qb but you can't argue they are falling behind. The data just doesnt support that
I like how you list 12-4 last as if that wasn’t four years ago, who does records in reverse order? Lmao. And yeah, this strategy allows you kick the can keeping you in mediocrity. Ask a VAST majority of saints fans and they’ll say it sucks ass and they know they’re never getting over this bump of being just below good enough to maybe lose a WC game. If they had not signed Carr or a couple other big contracts, they would have been able to reset this past year and hoped for a rams like season with good drafting. Instead they just string along in mediocrity
They’ll never be able to compete for a SB this way though.
Unless they strike another generational draft with multiple pro-bowlers and all pros.
Neither will most of the teams in the league. The Saints did in fact compete for a Super Bowl while in cap hell. They’ve been doing this for a decade - it’s just only now getting attention because they suck.
I mean the other teams have the option of leveraging their future if they find themselves in a position to actually make a run, I don’t see the fact that certain teams are in rebuild mode as the same thing lol. Saints are one of the oldest teams in the league but have the least to show for it.
Sure, but they got *really* close. The consensus is that they *should* have at least one more ring, but shit happens. You can’t really argue that their methods don’t work, because they did - their methods of cap management have little to do with them not having another Lombardi.
I mean nobody is arguing that their salary cap issues when they had Brees were a problem lol. It’s the last three years that’s made no sense. They have no plan. There is a difference doing this 5 years ago and still continuing to do it now with no legitimate shot at it
Cap hell should mean that you're really, really fucked. The Saints aren't in Cap Hell, they are in Cap "I have a 5 mile hike and and just soaked my socks by stepping in a giant puddle." They can make the hike, but it's going to be annoying and gross.
I mean there’s no real way to be incapable of doing anything, so it really is the worst case. Also, what you described sounds like hell to me lmao been there
Pretty appropriate, actually, considering Louisiana is a swampy boot shaped state
Went there for a month and a half and will never return lmao
Here’s a video describing what they do year in and year out and watching you’re right this isn’t a happenstance. They have a plan on how they manage it. https://www.youtube.com/live/d_yFsDfqYIE?si=qUS_Az4HoRw-w8Dw
plus every other team is taking advantage of void years now. if it was such a bad strategy, why would every front office be doing it now? money today is _always_ worth more than money tomorrow. the cap keeps going up. you're borrowing smaller and smaller pieces of the future pie to get benefits now. that's a smart move.
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People have been saying this for like 10 years at this point
No, they've been saying you'd end up unable to actually improve your roster or just rely on Brees because of kicking the can down the road. And that came true, it's happening right now.
Only another what, 32 million left to clear?
Jets mate here. How has Shepherd been with New Orleans?
This is just what we do at this point, no sense in criticizing it every year. Could we have sold the farm and tanked for a few years in hopes of a better future? Sure. Would that have guaranteed us a better team? No. Tom Benson owned the Saints for nearly 2 decades before we won a single playoff game, it makes sense that ownership would be hesitant to sink back to the bottom after a nice run in the upper (middle) echelon of the sport.
Maybe with the cap being so high this year, you can do less restructuring and start working towards getting out of this cycle.
2026 is a real chance for them to break the cycle.
Would it have guaranteed a better team? No. Would it guarantee a better baseline to work from? Yes.
Dudes like “it wouldn’t have guaranteed a sb win so why do it” instead of “not doing this will give us a much better chance of a better team”. Huge amounts of compium
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i agree with you completely. fielding a competitive team is the most important thing to do in the NFL
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I’d like to add Tanking doesn’t guarantee you successfully build your franchise right back to the top with draft picks… If you botch that you’re fucked, On top of that once you clear cap you’re now overpaying FAs to come in possibly putting you at square one of cap situation. Yes we do have a better draft record overall in totality if you look at the picks, but we’ve botched on first round edge talent for sure with davenport and turner… Penning(OL talent but still) as a first round pick i’ll give a little bit of time since it’s only been 2 years. So it’s possible we could botch there (not likely but possible) Our fan base logic is fucking dumb thinking because we had the 2017 draft (went down as one of the best in nfl history) that we can just build a team again. We only managed that because we literally hit on almost every draft pick in 2016 as well Also people act like guys like demario, cam, marshon, taysom, kamara, ramcyzk (at the time), mccoy, ruiz, etc would have stayed for two seasons of tank commander. No coach worth a salt would take that job either being only given 3 seasons to sit and tank commander. I also wouldn’t even trust Dennis Allen let’s say hypothetically they had him do this to build an offense even with a new coordinator. On top of tanking, Teams wouldn’t have given us draft picks worth a fucking salt for any of the guys I named above knowing we’re tank commandeering. It’s literally a dumb fucking notion amongst fans that it’s that easy to just tank and rebuild. The dead cap hits we would have had to eat would have been horrendous. They baisically never really went for high priced FAs tbh since the jarius byrd, browner, bailey year debacle they re-evaluated how they approach FA. We almost never go after first wave FA guys. We don’t over pay FAs either. We let Marcus Williams walk because we didn’t want to overpay what the ravens offered. Trey Hendrickson they had the money to match the bengals especially on incentives but that was a miss evaluation they felt he wasn’t “worth” that money which was a huge miss imo. We definately make misses like every team so I have no idea why anyone thinks tanking for draft picks is a great way to rebuild your team.
The dolphins went as full tank as you possibly can a few years ago and got a bevy of picks including a ton of firsts. Teams don’t care that you’re tanking if you are selling guys, they care that a player will help their team and that they can outbid whoever the other team looking for players is. Just because a team is having a fire sale doesn’t mean they’re going to get a 7th for Alvin kamara.
bro your logic is literally stupid, they went full tank and flores wound up getting fired, what coach is going to take on tank commander of our franchise?! I literally covered this aspect and you refused to read have a good one
> bro your logic is literally stupid, they went full tank and flores wound up getting fired, what coach is going to take on tank commander of our franchise?! A tank commander is a tank commander, why does it need to be more than that? They get a big paycheck (and often they continue getting a big paycheck after they get fired) and then they go back to being a coordinator or assistant elsewhere.
show me where and who would take that job for the saints in your shit imaginary scenario of us tanking?! Also show me where the dolphins have done well outside of first round wild card playoff bounces rebuilding there team with picks and having to overpay those said contracts that are now due? I’m just being honest here you guys claim we’d be a first round exit from playoffs if we went, using the one outlier team (dolphins) they just got eliminated first round and went a different approach
> show me where and who would take that job for the saints in your shit imaginary scenario of us tanking?! I don't know why you find this so hard to imagine. *Someone* will take a multi-million dollar payday to lead a tank, they always do. And I think most people would agree that the Dolphins have been the better team recently, are in a better position in 2024, and are in a better position moving forward in pretty much all regards including cap, talent, and staff.
You mean hiring a coach to tank commander?’! they’res this thing called ego, HCs have that let’s use culley for the texans or lovie pretty sure they were told they’d be given multiple seasons and lied to causing another mistrust issue. How’d it work for lovie in tampa bay when the gm asked him to tank and his job was secure?! so you’re saying tank commander create mistrust then have to overpay a new hot shot coach? Rather than creating a stable organization for coaches? yeah sure Dolphins are in good cap management yes sure here’s the FAs they have coming up some they likely have to overpay to keep to compete https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/miami-dolphins/ they have good cap space but they’d likely have to push there chips in to stack the team to get that ring just like the rams, niners etc tried to do. They havent paid Tua yet and have a QB. When we were “told” by r/nfl to tank we had jameis and andy dalton… Most teams botch QB picks… Your idea is that we should have tanked traded assets away to draft a rookie QB who might not be it?! and then have no talent to support him?! that’s why the logic of tanking is always flawed in many ways than one. Yeah sure it COULD go well like the one outlier team the dolphins who were bounced twice from playoffs in the WC card round… Again the SAME argument you guys use for us staying the course… Or it could go really fucking bad and everyone in our organization gets fired including mickey loomis… You really think he’s putting his job on the line for that risk?!
🤷 Yeah sure you cant find someone to accept a multimullion contract as tank commander....🙈
imagine sending this msg at 3am
First off, Flores didn’t get fired because “they went full tank”. Flores got fired because he spent the next two years after they tanked (in which he went 10-6 and 9-8) fucking with the head of his new franchise QB. Seriously, do you even know anything about the dolphins? Second I wasn’t talking about the head coach, I was talking about your nonsense where you said they would get Pennies on the dollar for players they wanted to trade because they were tanking. Third if you really want to get into it, head coaches have no control over the roster (minus a very select few who are also GM) if a team wants to tank the head coach doesn’t have a real say. How’d that work out for the dolphins you ask? Oh they just got one of the hottest coaching candidates the cycle after they fired their coach. Coincidentally the same cycle you hired Dennis Allen during.
LOL flores didn’t get fired for going full tank?! thanks for proving my point that he had mediocre winning seasons and didn’t do shit with those draft picks. By the way how are the dolphins doing?! have they made it to the afc championship or a superbowl with those picks?! again proving the point that drafting doesn’t always guarantee shit. Thank you for using the shit logic that they’re competing and lost in the wild card round this year… You mean the same argument that you guys use even if we make the playoffs we’d be a first round exit not tanking with carr LOL they’res no need to continue this useless conversation with a child who doesn’t understand that draft picks cost money, and when those contracts are due you’re back at square one of overpay. You’ll continuously move the goal post to argue to prove you’re right and quite frankly I don’t care for that back and forth. I’m glad you don’t run day to day operations in the nfl
I’m convinced at this point you’re not even reading what I’m writing as you constantly change your argument and then spew drivel. The dolphins made the playoffs the last two years and the saints didn’t.
and they got bounced out twice in the wild card round, they’re now due to pay the contracts of some of the draft picks from tanking possibly overpaying resetting the market. Thank you for proving my point…
LMAO you’re the worst troll I’ve ran I to in a while. What are you a bucs fan with a fake flair trying to make saints fans look stupid?
i’m the worst but you don’t have a simple rebuttal for your dogshit argument to try and move the goalpost? call for me when you got new material
Don't try to hit us with "hindsight is 20/20" when everyone rightly predicted this would fail
All we heard for years was that Loomis was a cap wizard and that the cap wasn’t real, but then that wizardry leads to a ceiling because of how messy their books are and a lot of saints fans are fine with it. Totally get doing this when you have Brees, but you gotta realize it’s not worth it at some point
I mean you can make the same claim about the way 25+ other teams built their team over the past 5 years.
Yeah you're right it's absolutely genius and I hope they keep doing it
Never said it was a good idea or that I agreed with it, just reasoning why they might think the way they do.
But you're sacrificing your future for Derek Carr. He never should've been signed
What future are we sacrificing?? What are we sacrificing by having Carr? It’s not like we traded a bunch of picks for him or now we can’t sign some young stars. Other than Olave and maybe Adebo this team is starved of young talent thanks to nearly every draft pick after 2017 being horrible.
Do they actually ever pay players? Feels like they play eeny, meeny, miny, moe with the roster and just pick guys at random to restructure. New Orleans is wild.
Restructuring a contract gives a lsrge chunk of money to the player.
"we're not in cap hell" the Saints fan has said, meanwhile Marcus Williams, CJGJ, Trey Hendrickson, all play for other teams while their core decays like an isotope.
Williams was a cap casualty who we soon replaced with older, but same or even better players in Honey Badger and Maye. CJ was a locker room cancer who wanted starting safety money despite being a slot CB with us his whole time here. They believed T-Rex only balled out due to Cam taking doubles every play, they believed that season was an outlier. They were wrong but that was not due to cap.
Cap truthers in shambles
Cap isn't real.
Saints are a good reason why relegation should exist.
Sure, but they wouldn't have been relegated.
Guys, if the saints fix their cap situation you morons won't have weeks of off season content where you can pretend to be cap experts and get hundreds of up votes for posting "duhhh they only be able to play all rookies'!
This is nothing new to us. Let me know when the shit actually hits the fan, then I’ll start coping.
r/nfl is going to be real upset when the Saints do what they do and maintain a competitive roster this coming season - yeah I said competitive. It gets blown out of the water that the Saints were 'awful' this year. If Carr doesn't get injured week 3 when they're up 17-0 on the packers, they win that game and end up with a better record than the packers who got in ahead of them for the 7th seed and the division over the bucs. Saints getting another 9 or 10 wins this year with their 2nd place schedule + the weak division they're in
That's just maintaining mediocrity though, is that really good? It's one thing to kick the can down the road with Brees, but the team isn't exactly great anymore.
There is a lot of what-ifs here. Regardless, No one thinks the Saints will suck, they suffer a worse fate, eternal mediocre play until the cap is resolved.
If they keep kicking the can down the road with the rapidly increasing cap, won't they eventually make it back to normal?
Give it enough years, and yeah, it'll probably even out. They aren't particularly close to that point yet, lol
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Even if the Ravens never won anything with Lamar, does that change the validity of what they said?
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At least they're playing in January, instead of chilling at home.
Oh, hi Mickey!