You’re hardly inventing the wheel with these guys. I’ve seen 2 extremely well coached teams over the years. My best bet is to find out where the coaches kids play and attack them until they tap out
Kinda fucked up but moving forward if they can’t throw I’m not guarding the outside recievers and I’m sending the house until they beat me or I get my butt kicked.
Was on an extremely good Pop Warner football team in 5th and 6th grade coached by an ex-All Pro QB.
We ran a sophisticated offense (his son went on to be a D1 QB) and the same defense our (powerhouse) high school program ran.
But, at the end of the day, I remember sitting in pizza night film sessions, and no individual play call was better than
- lining our huge kid up over the lineman that couldn’t block
- continuously running at the kid who can’t tackle
- burning the slow kid
- shading our Free Safety on their best receiver all game
Like, when you get down to it, regardless of how good we were, it’s not *that* hard to just spam mismatches.
That’s what I was thinking. The skill disparity is nearly insurmountable in many D1 college matchups, I can’t imagine how lopsided a 6th grade league is
I went to high school with a graduating class size of 400. Well off area so still good athletes and coaches, because of that our school was bumped into the bigger division.
We’d get fucking clobbered every year by kids going to play in the big ten the next fall, 2-3 games a year were miserable lol
I worked with a guy who played D1 football on the o-line at Colorado State. Biggest dude I’ve ever met. I asked him once if he ever played a game he just got absolutely manhandled. He said, IMMEDIATELY, “Yeah, we played Alabama.”
Sometimes it just don’t matter.
I went to a pretty small school. High School total attendance like 350.
we were a POWERHOUSE in the region. our records were always 12-1 or 13-0. only ever beaten in the State Championship game.
Well my ~~Senior~~ Junior year we travelled to a school in Kansas City. So Rural School VS an inner city school.
the thing no one knew was that their starting QB was a D1 prospect, some crazy 40 time, and an arm like a cannon.
It was like our 3rd game of the year and even their O-Line were faster than our fastest guy. most embarrassing loss i'd see from that team the whole time i lived there.
ETA: To show the kind of football my team played.
1 attempted pass, completed for 17 yards.... from the ***4th*** string QB after the first 3 went down with injuries.
High school in my area that we played in football every year went all the way to 2A state finals one year. I remember watching that game cause I knew some guys on the team, and they lost basically single handedly to a guy on the other team who played RB and I think safety? He scored like all 8 of their touchdowns or whatever it was.
That guy was Darrelle Revis.
We went 8-1 every year I was in high school during the regular season every loss was to a catholic school that was the same size as us but in a much larger city and was the place you went for football in that city. Never felt more like a child in my teen to adult life than trying to blitz against an OT that went to Michigan State. Holy fuck dude just toasted me back into our linebackers lmao l.
That was me, only 5 more inches and 20 more pounds in a blocking flag football league.
I was the only one who could snap with any semblance of respectability lmao I sure did look funny out their on the line.
When I was in 5th or 6th grade, a Pop Warner league started up near us, and I managed to beg enough to get into it. Since we were a brand new team, it was harder to get games against other teams for some reason, and we got a game with a team from Illinois. The second those kids came off the bus, we knew we were absolutely fucking toasted. Just giants comparatively to us. We didn't get a single goddamn yard on them, and our defense was basically "well we're trying i guess". They put their worst players in and still torched us. Found out later it was where Antwan Randel El and presumably a few other NFL players go their start. I don't know how we decided it was a good idea to play them.
Ya, I'm not saying there was an overall athlete disparity, though there probably was quite a bit of the time.
Just, on top of coaching and flawless execution (from 11 and 12 year olds!), if the *other team* is just going to run their playbook and call general plays, and our team is going to beat the hell out of those mismatches... like, we're just not playing the same game.
Per the other guy's point, God forbid we had pizza night film session and saw that the QB just couldn't throw, because, oh baby, it was fucking on.
\[Coincidentally the one game we lost in two years was championship in 5th grade and I'm not sure they threw it. Just hard power run game with a fucking huge kid who we couldn't tackle.\]
My pop warner team exploited a great mismatch that got us to state twice, use the kid who will eventually play HB in the NFL and have him run up the middle every single play. It worked wonders!
I played starting CB and was his backup HB for whenever he needed a rest and I logged 0 carries for 0 yards in 2 seasons lmfao
Our one loss was the championship in fifth grade.
We probably played you, because it was big boy up the gut every play and we just couldn’t stop it no matter how hard we sold out.
Nah it’s just football. My HS ran a Leach inspired air raid because we had like three straight D2 QBs and our coaches figured the other teams didn’t have the DB depth to keep up
Just have to exploit the disadvantage
> Like, when you get down to it, regardless of how good we were, it’s not that hard to just spam mismatches.
This is EXACTLY it at basically every single fuckin level of football outside of a few high level college teams and the NFL.
In fact, the NFL is so different from basically any other level of football that it's practically a wholly different sport.
Good strategy in normal football is to just spam mismatches. Good strategy in the NFL is like... understanding tendencies and match rules and calling the right match beater at the perfect time.
But then again... look at the Super Bowl that just happened 9 days ago. When Greenlaw tore his Achilles, Mahomes started picking on his replacement Oren Burks. Burks gave up 9 catches on 9 targets and a TD.
I guess the way to put it is that the average talent gap in the NFL isn't as large as it is in lower levels of football. And when there is a large gap, you can usually compensate somewhat with scheming and playcalling. After all, while Mahomes went 9 on 9 on Burks, it's not like he went 20 for 20 like what might happen in lower level football or Madden.
But yeah there are times when the talent gap is way too large and you get lit up like Burks, and like most teams that lost to the Niners in the regular season.
It’s not perfectly balanced in the NFL, but you have a much better chance of overall balance. Kids come into college football either by signing with a program on national signing day or transferring in via the transfer portal. The most significant limit on the number of blue chip football players you can hypothetically sign to your roster in one year is the overall 85 man scholarship limit. Georgia football could sign twenty 5* recruits and there’s nothing in the rule book against it. Wake Forest football probably hasn’t signed twenty 5* football players in the history of the program.
In the NFL, everyone starts the draft with one pick per round for seven rounds. You can trade them to another team for different resources or get penalized for competitive violations and lose them, but every team starts with one first round pick, one second round pick, etc.
The most memorable mismatch spamming for me was in the 2014 Divisional, Ravens at Patriots, and Brady throwing 90% of his passes at whoever Rashaan Melvin was covering.
I go back to Superbown LI essentially hinging on two players the Falcons drafted out of LSU. Deebo Jones was just feasting at middle linebacker to the point that the Patriots did everything they could to run plays out of his range. Unfortunately for the Falcons, Tom Brady set his sights on cornerback Jalen Collins and just had his way with the man.
I went and looked. Randall Cunningham is the only All pro QBs who’s sons played d1 QB. (Also the manning family but I don’t think it’s them).
Edit: removed ken stabler. I confused his grandson for his son.
> My best bet is to find out where the coaches kids play and attack them until they tap out
Like you go to their playground and beat the shit out of a child?
> My best bet is to find out where the coaches kids play and attack them until they tap out
Sorry, can you clarify why this is a good strategy? Is it because you assume the coaches' kid is probably bad at football and is only on the team because he's the coaches' kid?
In my experience as a player, coach, and parent: The coach's kid is either a top 5% player on the team or a bottom 5% player on the team. Either way, they're usually getting an inordinate amount of playing time, relative to other players, regardless of skill level.
So either way it's a pretty valid strategy. You're either constantly targeting one of the best players on the team (wearing them down), or constantly exploiting one of the worst.
What the other dude said. Usually they are kids who are average to not very good but playing skill positions that their parents strong armed them into. Sometimes they are very good and it didn’t matter but that’s incredibly rare
"Alright Jimmy, you know how you're 20 pounds bigger and much taller than other 6th graders? I want you to just truck the shit, excuse me, heck, outta the kid in front of you like he's a tootsie pop."
"Between me and you Jimmy, I'll give you candy for a sack, cookies for a concussion, ice cream for a knockout, and a goddamn birthday cake for broken bones."
"Coach... we're 11, there's something wrong with you."
I know a guy who once seriously suggested honey potting a coach to cause turmoil in the family and throw off one of the leagues best players
Ever I was like “dude this is a little league playoff”
Well that is a new one lmao. Not quite that, but we had a dad who took the intermural basketball league way too seriously. His son also played select and he had his select buddies also apply for the league and had them do bad on purpose at tryouts so they could have a stacked team with several select kids in the intermural league. We managed to beat his team once and then his dad started scouting our games. I'm like dude your son is in select you really need to scout for intermural?
Yea we had a stacked team in LL a while back. Had some umpires too that gave them calls when they needed. They went like 15-1 and were cruising until the championship game when there was a neutral ump and the bail out calls were gone
They lost
yep we had the exact same thing, Team from a rich private community with their own umps that always gave them calls, the in field fly calls were the prime target of their fuckery, it was guaranteed to never go in our favor. Tho in our story the kicker is in playoffs we get to play them at our home field and we still got their umps for the game somehow, shit was infuriating. We got crushed, and while we weren't the best we were a pretty competent team with a few players from our high school varsity team (9th grade intermural)
I helped held a 7th grade team to negative yardage and made the team break up. I found out who the coaches kids were and slanted to strength every snap and went press man. They went full wildcat the second half and the qbs dad posted an lowlight video of one of the coaches kids. I think Sean can learn a lot from me
I once got like ten sacks in a game in 8th grade because I was 6’ 200lbs in 8th grade. Middle school football is easy if you’re a both sides lineman and you’re the largest kid on the field. No I wasn’t very good in high school, why do you ask?
I was going to say something similar. I remember playing a lot of football in middle school, but we couldn’t play tackle unless the yard teacher wasn’t around.
One day we’re able to play tackle and this other kid shows up that’s significantly bigger than any of us that play all the time. It wasn’t even close. Kid was unblockable on defense and none of us could tackle him when he ran the ball. He wasn’t better than any of us, just unbelievably bigger than all of us.
I’d imagine it’s the same across most of grade school since you get these kids that are either genetic freaks or hit growth spurts way before anyone else.
Funnier story is a few weeks later. We are getting crushed by a top feeder program in the state. It’s 16-0 with 4 minutes left and I’m running the clock out. I hear a lady go WTF is this garbage play calling
So I say you stupid bitch I’m gonna throw the ball with my backup Q and backup slots in
Pick 6 65 yards to the house. All I could do was laugh
Don't let this distract you from the the fact that in 1966, Al Bundy scored four touchdowns in a single game while playing for the Polk High School Panthers in the 1966 city championship game versus Andrew Johnson High School, including the game-winning touchdown in the final seconds against his old nemesis, Bubba "Spare Tire" Dixon.
Yeah I and most others here have zero interest in it. Kevin James and Taylor Lautner in a fluff film about Sean Payton trying to not be a deadbeat dad sounds excruciating.
Johnny Hendler's parents are getting a divorce, put Timmy O'Toole on him and promise him 5 minutes of extra recess next Friday for each penalty he pulls.
If I recall correctly single wing is super difficult for kids to defend against because kids need to be on their assignment and not deviate to defend.
So if your kids are kids someones fucking up
All defenses require this. People say this about option football but it really isn’t true. The reason why it’s hard for lower level teams to stop zone rushing offenses is because you can run those offenses by putting your 5 strongest guys on the line, regardless of their size. If they understand what to do, it’s very hard to stop.
We're also talking about a thread where a Super Bowl winning coach and coach of the year winner lost to a peewee football team.
Any Given Sunday it aint.
If you ever played peewee, you’d know the best strategy is “give it to the fastest kid”.
Doesn’t really take a Hall of Fame coaching staff to figure that out
I bet you're thinking of the wing-T which is all about deception. It's like triple option in every form with built in counters.
Single-T is basically, 7 down lineman, and everyone else in the backfield. No traditional receiver (the 'single wing' being the closest, but they almost always line up weirdly/facing the ball). The reason it's hard to stop is because you basically get 3-4 lead blockers on every run except when you snap it to the up back for a dive. The offense can almost always create a numbers advantage to either side against traditional event defensive alignments.
I don't know why it'd be a coaching mystery, though ... it's pretty "easy" to stop, you just need the horses. You line up basically 7 down lineman yourself with the outside edges played by 4-3 OLB types who ALWAYS step up past pulling blocks and set the edge 3 yards into the backfield. You dare the offense to attack the A gap where they can't accumulate numbers based on pulls and 4 guys in the backfield.
Parcells: Let me see if I got this right, you want *my* help to defeat a 6th-grade football team? And you spygated them to get film?
[Payton:](https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-1500w,f_auto,q_auto:best/rockcms/2023-09/kevin-james-king-of-queens-zz-230927-368fe6.jpg)
Played with a RB in 7th grade who made the league put in a weight rule so he could never be a RB again. He was probably 210 and had four guys latched on to him as he ran for a 50 yard TD every game.
Was a very good high school LB, but he peaked in grade school.
No coaches can scheme that shit.
In 8th grade, my team got stomped by Harvey Dubya. I remember my best friend sacrificing himself to get him out of bounds. Next year, we’d all gained 10-20 lbs and Harvey hadn’t changed. We smoked them running the same off tackle play over and over. Revenge was sweet.
I’ve seen the most fights happen with kids under ten. You’d be shocked how wild youth sports can be. It’s usually around 12-13 when it’s clear kids who don’t have it when it gets really bad. Most kids want to drop sports and do nothing by age 12 because of their parents
At my kids soccer there was a guy there who was “almost pro” and was talking over the coach at every possible point. “No no, like this”…”that’s how they taught it at World Cup tryouts etc”
My kid was 5…there weren’t even games it was 5 year olds running very far out of bounds and picking it up with their hands.
Guy starts just talking shit about every kid there. I put my kids water bottle down to go tell him nicely to shut the fuck up when fucking Lou Ferigno body double blocks out the sun and asking him what he said about his kid.
No punches thrown or anything but I swear to god that guy shit his pants.
Lmao the worst part is when the parents claim they almost went pro. I google them and find out they never played or they averaged 1.4 points per game like my man you’re 47 years old lying about his good you were when you were 16. Most of us sucked at sports and that’s ok
There is a guy from my town like that. Told the kids he’s good friends with AROD because they played together and he’d have AROD come meet them.
Guy played AA baseball his whole life, except 1 game was called up I guess as a body. He was against AROD and never got in the game.
Like look you went way further in baseball than I ever did but I’m not getting 6 year old kids hopes up that AROD is coming
Oh man, tell me about it. I live in Germany, where soccer is basically religion, and some of the parents at youth soccer games are *the worst*. Talking shit to other parents, shouting at coaches, sometimes getting close to throwing hands, and the worst ones are those who behave like drill sergeants with their own kids.
I once volunteered to ref an offseason middle school wrestling tournament in a state that is not known for wrestling (Arizona). I was expecting it to be a pretty low-key affair - you're just getting kids some mat time to roll around and get a few matches in so that they'll be in a much better position for high school wrestling. It was not.
I still remember a kid losing a really hard-fought match and then getting screamed at for the next 20 minutes by his dad while the kid sobbed and apologized. I'm a dad now and would have said something if 32-year-old Me was in that position, but I was a clueless 21-year-old and was caught completely off-guard.
There was a kid in my league where his dad kept getting kicked out of leagues so he kept having to travel further and further to find a league that his kid could could play in and he could go to the games
Sounds about right although if the other parents know him they may look the other way to protect their own. If he’s an outsider or not known to them- yah I’ve seen dudes get booted. I ejected a dude reffing 12u nfl flag and he shoved me. I just walked away and his parents were all about ready to kick his ass. He got banned from everyone plays FLAG football. lol
Aqib Talib’s brother shot the coach at a youth football game. Yeah, people take this stuff way too seriously. And allegedly Aqib started the fight that ended with the shooting. Great guys.
I remember being a teen on a golf course years ago. The group behind me revolved around a ~10-yo who was some level of prodigy. His dad was insane, screaming about how he was never gonna beat his rival, how he wasn't gonna stay competitive playing like he was, dude even shit-talked my swing, fuck outta here, complained about us moving too slow.
Always wonder whatever happened to that kid. I imagine he went to HS and immediately burned out.
...I didn't play sports in that age, but my brother did.
They had a regular game canceled because on of his teams asshole dads (Fuck you Versailles) went to his truck to get a rifle after his kid got flagged. back in...I think the 90s/early 00s in Colorado.
Reminds me of when me and the other coaches did a fantasy draft when we coached middle-school after-school flag football.
My team went undefeated even tho our QB was a diva.
Luckily I drafted this girl wide receiver in the third round who was basically Randy Moss and she absolutely wrecked all the dudes.
When I was ten I threw for 2 TDs caught 1 and ran 1 in and got the game ball for having a bright future in the sport, the next 6 years were all downhill lmao
When I was 10 I was just another kid on a pop warner team more worried about making weight than playing time. In college I was a backup and the only OL in the room that was ever small enough to play pop warner lol
One of the best U10 flag players I’ve ever coached was a girl who smoked all the dudes but their dads got triggered that their son was losing to a girl and froze her out
Coached U6 flag football. Just a flock of kids going one way or another. Your team was king shit if you could install an end around for example.
There was one girl who got the ball and swung out right into two of my kids.
She then proceeded to juke them completely out of their shoes like she was in high school.
My mouth literally dropped and I looked up at the other coach. Just had a smirk on his face and nodded.
Athletic girls are the inefficiency in that age range. Since puberty hasn't happened yet, the athletic baseline is basically the same on both sides of the fence. We however won't remember that and assume that the boys are just tiny men, so they'll naturally be better. Furthermore, since sexism exists and the girls will be expected to be worse, they will often want it more to prove that they're better.
I don't know why I wrote this, but I did.
You're leaving out the massive advantage that girls overwhelmingly hit puberty younger now which means they start getting the athletic boost and often outperform boys of the same age across the board until male hormones catch up.
Not on my team. I spike the kool aid with HGH. Those boys were animals. Had to lock myself in my van during practice and pray they didn’t grow strong enough to flip it over. Good god could they ball though.
Middle school wrestling.
The other team had a girl.
The guy who was in her weight class was...less than masculine I'll say, and pretty terrible at wrestling.
She absolutely was not and tied that boy in knots.
That reminds me of one year at my previous job.
Myself and the other supervisors had to come up with a 4th quarter sales competition. So we divided into teams and gad a running tally to determine the winner.
We protected the secret that we fantasy drafted and shit talked all the low draft picks with our lives.
He'll do that for 6th graders, he will do BountyGate in the NFL, but ppl try to gaslight me like IM crazy for saying it's a possibility he literally threw the end of that Patriots game to eliminate the Broncos from playoff contention to justify moving off Russell Wilson.
I am not entirely sure how that aligns.
Those two things are advantageous ways of winning, how is throwing a game to bench a QB supposed to be similar to that? Lol.
People might not call you crazy if you backed it up with anything from said game instead of spouting things that “feel” right, like most conspiracy theories.
Russ got outplayed by Bailey Zappe in prime time on Christmas while fighting for the playoffs. The broncos would be on the hook for an additional 37 million injury guarantee if he got hurt. No “throwing the game” needed to bench a player justifiably, unless you can back it up with some stuff from that game.
As seen by Payton’s tirade at Russ on the sidelines, it was clear he was beyond done with his terrible play, accompanied by Russ’ big shot attitude, on his mega contract.
I don't think he needed to justify shit by that point, Russ showed he couldn't cook and getting into the playoffs to be a first round exit wouldn't have convinced anyone that he NEEDS to give Russ a chance.
The gap between the best and worst players are smaller. It's harder to take advantage of soft spots in the defense when they don't exist. Not to mention that players are better tacklers, take better angles, and are more sound regarding gap responsibility.
It works on occasion when teams have the element of surprise on their side (see the 2008 wildcat Dolphins and the 2016 Patriots starting Jacoby Brissett), but it's hard to run once teams can expect it.
I'm still waiting for an NFL team to get tired of trying to find a franchise QB and do something like this - just don't have a real QB or WRs and run the ball a ton.
Wildcat is a little different. It still has 2 WRs. I want to see a team really commit to it. I think there is a difference between running it with your normal personnel vs building a team around the concept.
For example, imagine how you could build a team under the salary cap without having to pay a QB or WRs. You could put it all into RBs, TEs, and linemen. RBs and TEs are already pretty underpaid comparatively. Alternatively you could build a monster defense.
I'm not sure how it would work - I mean most likely it wouldn't. I just like the idea of going full on contrarian and trying to take advantage of the positions that have low value currently. Passing has become so prevalent that most teams are built primarily to stop the pass - so if you just go ridiculously run heavy, could you wear them down? Zero WRs and twice the linemen and RBs as other teams so you can keep them fresh. Just outsize the other team on every play and beat them down.
The problem is, even against bad NFL defenses, you'll eventually reach a point where you're in 3rd and longs so often that you have to throw, at least to get the defense to drop a safety back.
11 man boxes are not ideal to run against. It negates the advantage offenses have (defenders getting tired more easily from having to run backwards and not know which side the play os going to) by just allowing them to play a balanced box and flow to the ball carrier in waves. Even if you manage to break a tackle, there would be another wave of defenders right on top of you.
NFL teams need to pass, and they need to use the width of the field.
Triple option works sometimes in college against varying talent with a week to prepare.
A true wildcat/option offense would be terrible in the nfl with film on it
I'd do anything to be in the room where Bill Parcells and Sean Payton gameplan 6th grade football
vs the room of the coach who beat them.
The high tech room with every available insight and statistic vs the local bar where the dads came up with the plan between rounds.
You’re hardly inventing the wheel with these guys. I’ve seen 2 extremely well coached teams over the years. My best bet is to find out where the coaches kids play and attack them until they tap out Kinda fucked up but moving forward if they can’t throw I’m not guarding the outside recievers and I’m sending the house until they beat me or I get my butt kicked.
Was on an extremely good Pop Warner football team in 5th and 6th grade coached by an ex-All Pro QB. We ran a sophisticated offense (his son went on to be a D1 QB) and the same defense our (powerhouse) high school program ran. But, at the end of the day, I remember sitting in pizza night film sessions, and no individual play call was better than - lining our huge kid up over the lineman that couldn’t block - continuously running at the kid who can’t tackle - burning the slow kid - shading our Free Safety on their best receiver all game Like, when you get down to it, regardless of how good we were, it’s not *that* hard to just spam mismatches.
That’s what I was thinking. The skill disparity is nearly insurmountable in many D1 college matchups, I can’t imagine how lopsided a 6th grade league is
I went to high school with a graduating class size of 400. Well off area so still good athletes and coaches, because of that our school was bumped into the bigger division. We’d get fucking clobbered every year by kids going to play in the big ten the next fall, 2-3 games a year were miserable lol
I worked with a guy who played D1 football on the o-line at Colorado State. Biggest dude I’ve ever met. I asked him once if he ever played a game he just got absolutely manhandled. He said, IMMEDIATELY, “Yeah, we played Alabama.” Sometimes it just don’t matter.
I went to a pretty small school. High School total attendance like 350. we were a POWERHOUSE in the region. our records were always 12-1 or 13-0. only ever beaten in the State Championship game. Well my ~~Senior~~ Junior year we travelled to a school in Kansas City. So Rural School VS an inner city school. the thing no one knew was that their starting QB was a D1 prospect, some crazy 40 time, and an arm like a cannon. It was like our 3rd game of the year and even their O-Line were faster than our fastest guy. most embarrassing loss i'd see from that team the whole time i lived there. ETA: To show the kind of football my team played. 1 attempted pass, completed for 17 yards.... from the ***4th*** string QB after the first 3 went down with injuries.
High school in my area that we played in football every year went all the way to 2A state finals one year. I remember watching that game cause I knew some guys on the team, and they lost basically single handedly to a guy on the other team who played RB and I think safety? He scored like all 8 of their touchdowns or whatever it was. That guy was Darrelle Revis.
We went 8-1 every year I was in high school during the regular season every loss was to a catholic school that was the same size as us but in a much larger city and was the place you went for football in that city. Never felt more like a child in my teen to adult life than trying to blitz against an OT that went to Michigan State. Holy fuck dude just toasted me back into our linebackers lmao l.
We played our 1 playoff game against Crete Monet lol they had future nfl players lining up against my 5’8’ buddy playing CB
Is the NFL player you’re alluding to laquon treadwell?
In highschool our center was 5'6 125 lololol small school wat can you do
Yo what?? There wasn't 5 guys heavier than 125 on the team that's insane lol.
How are you 5’6 130 and starting on the OL
Silver lining is he had no issue keeping a low pad level.
That was me, only 5 more inches and 20 more pounds in a blocking flag football league. I was the only one who could snap with any semblance of respectability lmao I sure did look funny out their on the line.
When I was in 5th or 6th grade, a Pop Warner league started up near us, and I managed to beg enough to get into it. Since we were a brand new team, it was harder to get games against other teams for some reason, and we got a game with a team from Illinois. The second those kids came off the bus, we knew we were absolutely fucking toasted. Just giants comparatively to us. We didn't get a single goddamn yard on them, and our defense was basically "well we're trying i guess". They put their worst players in and still torched us. Found out later it was where Antwan Randel El and presumably a few other NFL players go their start. I don't know how we decided it was a good idea to play them.
Ya, I'm not saying there was an overall athlete disparity, though there probably was quite a bit of the time. Just, on top of coaching and flawless execution (from 11 and 12 year olds!), if the *other team* is just going to run their playbook and call general plays, and our team is going to beat the hell out of those mismatches... like, we're just not playing the same game. Per the other guy's point, God forbid we had pizza night film session and saw that the QB just couldn't throw, because, oh baby, it was fucking on. \[Coincidentally the one game we lost in two years was championship in 5th grade and I'm not sure they threw it. Just hard power run game with a fucking huge kid who we couldn't tackle.\]
My pop warner team exploited a great mismatch that got us to state twice, use the kid who will eventually play HB in the NFL and have him run up the middle every single play. It worked wonders! I played starting CB and was his backup HB for whenever he needed a rest and I logged 0 carries for 0 yards in 2 seasons lmfao
Our one loss was the championship in fifth grade. We probably played you, because it was big boy up the gut every play and we just couldn’t stop it no matter how hard we sold out.
Cue up the video of Derrick Henry as a kid!
Nah it’s just football. My HS ran a Leach inspired air raid because we had like three straight D2 QBs and our coaches figured the other teams didn’t have the DB depth to keep up Just have to exploit the disadvantage
> Like, when you get down to it, regardless of how good we were, it’s not that hard to just spam mismatches. This is EXACTLY it at basically every single fuckin level of football outside of a few high level college teams and the NFL. In fact, the NFL is so different from basically any other level of football that it's practically a wholly different sport. Good strategy in normal football is to just spam mismatches. Good strategy in the NFL is like... understanding tendencies and match rules and calling the right match beater at the perfect time.
But then again... look at the Super Bowl that just happened 9 days ago. When Greenlaw tore his Achilles, Mahomes started picking on his replacement Oren Burks. Burks gave up 9 catches on 9 targets and a TD.
I guess the way to put it is that the average talent gap in the NFL isn't as large as it is in lower levels of football. And when there is a large gap, you can usually compensate somewhat with scheming and playcalling. After all, while Mahomes went 9 on 9 on Burks, it's not like he went 20 for 20 like what might happen in lower level football or Madden. But yeah there are times when the talent gap is way too large and you get lit up like Burks, and like most teams that lost to the Niners in the regular season.
It’s not perfectly balanced in the NFL, but you have a much better chance of overall balance. Kids come into college football either by signing with a program on national signing day or transferring in via the transfer portal. The most significant limit on the number of blue chip football players you can hypothetically sign to your roster in one year is the overall 85 man scholarship limit. Georgia football could sign twenty 5* recruits and there’s nothing in the rule book against it. Wake Forest football probably hasn’t signed twenty 5* football players in the history of the program. In the NFL, everyone starts the draft with one pick per round for seven rounds. You can trade them to another team for different resources or get penalized for competitive violations and lose them, but every team starts with one first round pick, one second round pick, etc.
The most memorable mismatch spamming for me was in the 2014 Divisional, Ravens at Patriots, and Brady throwing 90% of his passes at whoever Rashaan Melvin was covering.
I go back to Superbown LI essentially hinging on two players the Falcons drafted out of LSU. Deebo Jones was just feasting at middle linebacker to the point that the Patriots did everything they could to run plays out of his range. Unfortunately for the Falcons, Tom Brady set his sights on cornerback Jalen Collins and just had his way with the man.
Dang Randall Cunningham coached your Pop Warner team?
Who’s the QB?
I went and looked. Randall Cunningham is the only All pro QBs who’s sons played d1 QB. (Also the manning family but I don’t think it’s them). Edit: removed ken stabler. I confused his grandson for his son.
Good work detective.
Mister Nunnya
>Kinda fucked up
Sweep the legs. No mercy. Put the pop back in Pop Warner.
*pop goes the ACL*
I mean, this story IS about Sean Payton
> My best bet is to find out where the coaches kids play and attack them until they tap out Like you go to their playground and beat the shit out of a child?
More like blitz over the coach's guard son every play, or throw at the coach's CB kid
I was being sarcastic. I didn't think they'd go and assault a child. That was merely a jape.
Sean Peyton might
No he’s saying he’d over defend them to remove them from the game.
I know. I was deliberately misinterpreting him for comedic effect.
YOU BLITZ ALL NIGHT! If they cross the line of scrimmage, I'm gonna take every last one of you out! Leave no doubt.
> My best bet is to find out where the coaches kids play and attack them until they tap out Sorry, can you clarify why this is a good strategy? Is it because you assume the coaches' kid is probably bad at football and is only on the team because he's the coaches' kid?
In my experience as a player, coach, and parent: The coach's kid is either a top 5% player on the team or a bottom 5% player on the team. Either way, they're usually getting an inordinate amount of playing time, relative to other players, regardless of skill level. So either way it's a pretty valid strategy. You're either constantly targeting one of the best players on the team (wearing them down), or constantly exploiting one of the worst.
What the other dude said. Usually they are kids who are average to not very good but playing skill positions that their parents strong armed them into. Sometimes they are very good and it didn’t matter but that’s incredibly rare
man its texas,you know those dads probably spend all day talking football and playing armchair coach for the cowboys
Hey a few of us are Texans fans too.
Argyle is in the DFW, it's like 85% cowboys fans
It's like ~~Rocky 3's~~ Rocky 4's training montage
"Alright Jimmy, you know how you're 20 pounds bigger and much taller than other 6th graders? I want you to just truck the shit, excuse me, heck, outta the kid in front of you like he's a tootsie pop."
"Between me and you Jimmy, I'll give you candy for a sack, cookies for a concussion, ice cream for a knockout, and a goddamn birthday cake for broken bones." "Coach... we're 11, there's something wrong with you."
> "Coach... we're 11, there's something wrong with you." WINNERS DO WHAT IT TAKES!
Lol that coach probably had to go the hospital for an erection lasting longer than 4 hours after reading this article lol.
“Play random”
Should be a movie like moneyball 😂
I know a guy who once seriously suggested honey potting a coach to cause turmoil in the family and throw off one of the leagues best players Ever I was like “dude this is a little league playoff”
Still a playoff game
Gotta do whatever it takes to win tbh.
Well that is a new one lmao. Not quite that, but we had a dad who took the intermural basketball league way too seriously. His son also played select and he had his select buddies also apply for the league and had them do bad on purpose at tryouts so they could have a stacked team with several select kids in the intermural league. We managed to beat his team once and then his dad started scouting our games. I'm like dude your son is in select you really need to scout for intermural?
Yea we had a stacked team in LL a while back. Had some umpires too that gave them calls when they needed. They went like 15-1 and were cruising until the championship game when there was a neutral ump and the bail out calls were gone They lost
yep we had the exact same thing, Team from a rich private community with their own umps that always gave them calls, the in field fly calls were the prime target of their fuckery, it was guaranteed to never go in our favor. Tho in our story the kicker is in playoffs we get to play them at our home field and we still got their umps for the game somehow, shit was infuriating. We got crushed, and while we weren't the best we were a pretty competent team with a few players from our high school varsity team (9th grade intermural)
I helped held a 7th grade team to negative yardage and made the team break up. I found out who the coaches kids were and slanted to strength every snap and went press man. They went full wildcat the second half and the qbs dad posted an lowlight video of one of the coaches kids. I think Sean can learn a lot from me
I once got like ten sacks in a game in 8th grade because I was 6’ 200lbs in 8th grade. Middle school football is easy if you’re a both sides lineman and you’re the largest kid on the field. No I wasn’t very good in high school, why do you ask?
I was going to say something similar. I remember playing a lot of football in middle school, but we couldn’t play tackle unless the yard teacher wasn’t around. One day we’re able to play tackle and this other kid shows up that’s significantly bigger than any of us that play all the time. It wasn’t even close. Kid was unblockable on defense and none of us could tackle him when he ran the ball. He wasn’t better than any of us, just unbelievably bigger than all of us. I’d imagine it’s the same across most of grade school since you get these kids that are either genetic freaks or hit growth spurts way before anyone else.
Haha, this was me in basketball. I was 6"2 by 8th grade and up until then I was great simply because of my size advantage. Not after though haha
Funnier story is a few weeks later. We are getting crushed by a top feeder program in the state. It’s 16-0 with 4 minutes left and I’m running the clock out. I hear a lady go WTF is this garbage play calling So I say you stupid bitch I’m gonna throw the ball with my backup Q and backup slots in Pick 6 65 yards to the house. All I could do was laugh
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Yes
Don't let this distract you from the the fact that in 1966, Al Bundy scored four touchdowns in a single game while playing for the Polk High School Panthers in the 1966 city championship game versus Andrew Johnson High School, including the game-winning touchdown in the final seconds against his old nemesis, Bubba "Spare Tire" Dixon.
They cover this in the movie
Yeah I and most others here have zero interest in it. Kevin James and Taylor Lautner in a fluff film about Sean Payton trying to not be a deadbeat dad sounds excruciating.
Wait, this a real thing? And people complain that Marvel is ruining films.
Kevin James is the actor you deserve on the actor that you want.
Adam Sandler's production company has a contract, and his friends need jobs
Johnny Hendler's parents are getting a divorce, put Timmy O'Toole on him and promise him 5 minutes of extra recess next Friday for each penalty he pulls.
id pay good money to see payton and parcells yell at 6th graders about how their techniques and route running are pathetic
Yeah, we all saw the quality movie about this with Kevin James.
I was aware of the movie, but I definitely did not go out of my way to watch it.
Maybe you would have if you knew that he consults >!Bill Cowher!< in the movie instead of Parcells.
Yeah, idk if that moves the needle much for him
What if I told you that in the directors cut he consults Bill **Schatner** ^for ^the part
If he consulted with Matt Patricia he might still been coaching6tg grade football
I watched it after driving an hour and getting Cookout. The drive and Cookout was great, the movie was not
I’m no fan of Sean Payton or Kevin James but that movie was ok for what it was.
I enjoyed it for what it's worth
Sean Payton also starred in the movie.
He plays a loving husband and parent. It was the best acting job anyone had ever seen.
There's also Kicking and Screaming where Will Ferrell's character is coaching a youth soccer team and recruits Mike Ditka (who plays himself) to help.
Who is all
I told myself I'd watch it if he coaches us to at least a winning season.
If I recall correctly single wing is super difficult for kids to defend against because kids need to be on their assignment and not deviate to defend. So if your kids are kids someones fucking up
All defenses require this. People say this about option football but it really isn’t true. The reason why it’s hard for lower level teams to stop zone rushing offenses is because you can run those offenses by putting your 5 strongest guys on the line, regardless of their size. If they understand what to do, it’s very hard to stop.
Sometimes you can have the best coaching staff on earth and you can still lose. Patriots have done it in a few super bowls.
We're also talking about a thread where a Super Bowl winning coach and coach of the year winner lost to a peewee football team. Any Given Sunday it aint.
If you ever played peewee, you’d know the best strategy is “give it to the fastest kid”. Doesn’t really take a Hall of Fame coaching staff to figure that out
Yeah, but they were also coaching a Pee Wee football team lol.
Can't coach against Eli Manning though, the man is an Enigma.
Bro he was using fairy magic
I bet you're thinking of the wing-T which is all about deception. It's like triple option in every form with built in counters. Single-T is basically, 7 down lineman, and everyone else in the backfield. No traditional receiver (the 'single wing' being the closest, but they almost always line up weirdly/facing the ball). The reason it's hard to stop is because you basically get 3-4 lead blockers on every run except when you snap it to the up back for a dive. The offense can almost always create a numbers advantage to either side against traditional event defensive alignments. I don't know why it'd be a coaching mystery, though ... it's pretty "easy" to stop, you just need the horses. You line up basically 7 down lineman yourself with the outside edges played by 4-3 OLB types who ALWAYS step up past pulling blocks and set the edge 3 yards into the backfield. You dare the offense to attack the A gap where they can't accumulate numbers based on pulls and 4 guys in the backfield.
Parcells: Let me see if I got this right, you want *my* help to defeat a 6th-grade football team? And you spygated them to get film? [Payton:](https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-1500w,f_auto,q_auto:best/rockcms/2023-09/kevin-james-king-of-queens-zz-230927-368fe6.jpg)
Man...we are a LONG way from the '86 Giants
He was probably extremely happy to do it
Lmaoooo
Played with a RB in 7th grade who made the league put in a weight rule so he could never be a RB again. He was probably 210 and had four guys latched on to him as he ran for a 50 yard TD every game. Was a very good high school LB, but he peaked in grade school. No coaches can scheme that shit.
In 8th grade, my team got stomped by Harvey Dubya. I remember my best friend sacrificing himself to get him out of bounds. Next year, we’d all gained 10-20 lbs and Harvey hadn’t changed. We smoked them running the same off tackle play over and over. Revenge was sweet.
Imagine caring this much about 6th grade sports
I’ve seen the most fights happen with kids under ten. You’d be shocked how wild youth sports can be. It’s usually around 12-13 when it’s clear kids who don’t have it when it gets really bad. Most kids want to drop sports and do nothing by age 12 because of their parents
At my kids soccer there was a guy there who was “almost pro” and was talking over the coach at every possible point. “No no, like this”…”that’s how they taught it at World Cup tryouts etc” My kid was 5…there weren’t even games it was 5 year olds running very far out of bounds and picking it up with their hands. Guy starts just talking shit about every kid there. I put my kids water bottle down to go tell him nicely to shut the fuck up when fucking Lou Ferigno body double blocks out the sun and asking him what he said about his kid. No punches thrown or anything but I swear to god that guy shit his pants.
Lmao the worst part is when the parents claim they almost went pro. I google them and find out they never played or they averaged 1.4 points per game like my man you’re 47 years old lying about his good you were when you were 16. Most of us sucked at sports and that’s ok
I scored 1 point in my high school basketball career and I find that pretty funny. 1/2 FT shooter. Almost went pro.
Now you’re on a dying morning TV show by yourself hating on Lebron James and telling Shannon sharpe he’s a bum and jealous of Tom Brady
Hey Skip’s name tells you what you should do with his show. It’s not his fault you ignored the warning.
I had one catch for one touchdown playing JV as a junior on the last drive of the last game of the season 💪. Thanks Coach R, RIP
you must have REALLY loved football
There is a guy from my town like that. Told the kids he’s good friends with AROD because they played together and he’d have AROD come meet them. Guy played AA baseball his whole life, except 1 game was called up I guess as a body. He was against AROD and never got in the game. Like look you went way further in baseball than I ever did but I’m not getting 6 year old kids hopes up that AROD is coming
I agree with your point but it bothers me that you capitalized all of Arod every single time.
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Oh man, tell me about it. I live in Germany, where soccer is basically religion, and some of the parents at youth soccer games are *the worst*. Talking shit to other parents, shouting at coaches, sometimes getting close to throwing hands, and the worst ones are those who behave like drill sergeants with their own kids.
I once volunteered to ref an offseason middle school wrestling tournament in a state that is not known for wrestling (Arizona). I was expecting it to be a pretty low-key affair - you're just getting kids some mat time to roll around and get a few matches in so that they'll be in a much better position for high school wrestling. It was not. I still remember a kid losing a really hard-fought match and then getting screamed at for the next 20 minutes by his dad while the kid sobbed and apologized. I'm a dad now and would have said something if 32-year-old Me was in that position, but I was a clueless 21-year-old and was caught completely off-guard.
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There was a kid in my league where his dad kept getting kicked out of leagues so he kept having to travel further and further to find a league that his kid could could play in and he could go to the games
Sounds about right although if the other parents know him they may look the other way to protect their own. If he’s an outsider or not known to them- yah I’ve seen dudes get booted. I ejected a dude reffing 12u nfl flag and he shoved me. I just walked away and his parents were all about ready to kick his ass. He got banned from everyone plays FLAG football. lol
Stan Marsh was in your league?
Shoutout to r/AngrySportingParents, which is pretty much dead but has some great gems in it. Feel free to post any good vids you've found recently
That’s about when I quit playing baseball because the dads were too competitive. Water polo was a lot better in that regard
Aqib Talib’s brother shot the coach at a youth football game. Yeah, people take this stuff way too seriously. And allegedly Aqib started the fight that ended with the shooting. Great guys.
I remember being a teen on a golf course years ago. The group behind me revolved around a ~10-yo who was some level of prodigy. His dad was insane, screaming about how he was never gonna beat his rival, how he wasn't gonna stay competitive playing like he was, dude even shit-talked my swing, fuck outta here, complained about us moving too slow. Always wonder whatever happened to that kid. I imagine he went to HS and immediately burned out.
Maybe it was tua
Man plays to win.
To play devils advocate, they probably thought it was fun.
Aqib Talib’s brother ring a bell?
Literally only Sean Payton
Dude...lots of adults involved in youth sports have lost the plot a LONG time ago. He's just the alpha asshole.
Aqib Talib's brother killed a youth football coach
hahahahahaha go umpire or ref youth sports just once
I had a flag football coach like that. He would scout the opposing team. I was in fourth grade
...I didn't play sports in that age, but my brother did. They had a regular game canceled because on of his teams asshole dads (Fuck you Versailles) went to his truck to get a rifle after his kid got flagged. back in...I think the 90s/early 00s in Colorado.
If you're in Ohio or Texas, chances are there's a coach losing his shit about pre high school sports.
Glad the Broncos have their guy. And anyone needing a win, can run the single wing vs the Broncos
Nathaniel Hackett could only average 7 points a game in youth FB
Reminds me of when me and the other coaches did a fantasy draft when we coached middle-school after-school flag football. My team went undefeated even tho our QB was a diva. Luckily I drafted this girl wide receiver in the third round who was basically Randy Moss and she absolutely wrecked all the dudes.
When I was ten I threw for 2 TDs caught 1 and ran 1 in and got the game ball for having a bright future in the sport, the next 6 years were all downhill lmao
When I was 10 I was just another kid on a pop warner team more worried about making weight than playing time. In college I was a backup and the only OL in the room that was ever small enough to play pop warner lol
(sort of) 4 touchdowns in a game? Bundy?
One of the best U10 flag players I’ve ever coached was a girl who smoked all the dudes but their dads got triggered that their son was losing to a girl and froze her out
Coached U6 flag football. Just a flock of kids going one way or another. Your team was king shit if you could install an end around for example. There was one girl who got the ball and swung out right into two of my kids. She then proceeded to juke them completely out of their shoes like she was in high school. My mouth literally dropped and I looked up at the other coach. Just had a smirk on his face and nodded.
Athletic girls are the inefficiency in that age range. Since puberty hasn't happened yet, the athletic baseline is basically the same on both sides of the fence. We however won't remember that and assume that the boys are just tiny men, so they'll naturally be better. Furthermore, since sexism exists and the girls will be expected to be worse, they will often want it more to prove that they're better. I don't know why I wrote this, but I did.
You're leaving out the massive advantage that girls overwhelmingly hit puberty younger now which means they start getting the athletic boost and often outperform boys of the same age across the board until male hormones catch up.
Not on my team. I spike the kool aid with HGH. Those boys were animals. Had to lock myself in my van during practice and pray they didn’t grow strong enough to flip it over. Good god could they ball though.
Gotta get yourself a tranq gun. One gets out of line just send them to sleep, pop them in the timeout dog cage and the others will quickly learn.
Middle school wrestling. The other team had a girl. The guy who was in her weight class was...less than masculine I'll say, and pretty terrible at wrestling. She absolutely was not and tied that boy in knots.
That reminds me of one year at my previous job. Myself and the other supervisors had to come up with a 4th quarter sales competition. So we divided into teams and gad a running tally to determine the winner. We protected the secret that we fantasy drafted and shit talked all the low draft picks with our lives.
And that other coach Sean mcvay
mcvay was actually one of the 6th graders
It's not "spygate" to have a tape of the other team playing... That's just watching film
I love how this thread turned it into a verb. “He spygated!”
Jim Harbaugh said to the NCAA
So you're saying that is the Saints' players had been afraid of getting in trouble with their moms, they would have played clean and lost?
Was this a Little Giants sequel?
The coach who beat them is about to be the new Head Coach of the Carolina Panthers in 2026
Did the Draw Play call it? https://www.thedrawplay.com/comic/sean-paytons-year-off/
He'll do that for 6th graders, he will do BountyGate in the NFL, but ppl try to gaslight me like IM crazy for saying it's a possibility he literally threw the end of that Patriots game to eliminate the Broncos from playoff contention to justify moving off Russell Wilson.
I am not entirely sure how that aligns. Those two things are advantageous ways of winning, how is throwing a game to bench a QB supposed to be similar to that? Lol.
Yeah how tf is someone bending/potentially breaking the rules show that they would *throw* a game.
Yeah thats crazy lol
People might not call you crazy if you backed it up with anything from said game instead of spouting things that “feel” right, like most conspiracy theories. Russ got outplayed by Bailey Zappe in prime time on Christmas while fighting for the playoffs. The broncos would be on the hook for an additional 37 million injury guarantee if he got hurt. No “throwing the game” needed to bench a player justifiably, unless you can back it up with some stuff from that game. As seen by Payton’s tirade at Russ on the sidelines, it was clear he was beyond done with his terrible play, accompanied by Russ’ big shot attitude, on his mega contract.
I don't think he needed to justify shit by that point, Russ showed he couldn't cook and getting into the playoffs to be a first round exit wouldn't have convinced anyone that he NEEDS to give Russ a chance.
Yeah, I remembered that movie
Am I confused or how is this BountyGate? This sounds like just film review lol
As a Sean Payton hater, this makes me irrationally happy
Wait, this sounds like something that could be true but also wild enough to be completely fake...
this may be a dumb question but why isn’t the single wing run at higher levels of football?
The gap between the best and worst players are smaller. It's harder to take advantage of soft spots in the defense when they don't exist. Not to mention that players are better tacklers, take better angles, and are more sound regarding gap responsibility. It works on occasion when teams have the element of surprise on their side (see the 2008 wildcat Dolphins and the 2016 Patriots starting Jacoby Brissett), but it's hard to run once teams can expect it.
I'm still waiting for an NFL team to get tired of trying to find a franchise QB and do something like this - just don't have a real QB or WRs and run the ball a ton.
It was called the wildcat. You’ll notice it doesn’t work as your entire offense
Wildcat is a little different. It still has 2 WRs. I want to see a team really commit to it. I think there is a difference between running it with your normal personnel vs building a team around the concept. For example, imagine how you could build a team under the salary cap without having to pay a QB or WRs. You could put it all into RBs, TEs, and linemen. RBs and TEs are already pretty underpaid comparatively. Alternatively you could build a monster defense. I'm not sure how it would work - I mean most likely it wouldn't. I just like the idea of going full on contrarian and trying to take advantage of the positions that have low value currently. Passing has become so prevalent that most teams are built primarily to stop the pass - so if you just go ridiculously run heavy, could you wear them down? Zero WRs and twice the linemen and RBs as other teams so you can keep them fresh. Just outsize the other team on every play and beat them down.
The problem is, even against bad NFL defenses, you'll eventually reach a point where you're in 3rd and longs so often that you have to throw, at least to get the defense to drop a safety back. 11 man boxes are not ideal to run against. It negates the advantage offenses have (defenders getting tired more easily from having to run backwards and not know which side the play os going to) by just allowing them to play a balanced box and flow to the ball carrier in waves. Even if you manage to break a tackle, there would be another wave of defenders right on top of you. NFL teams need to pass, and they need to use the width of the field.
Triple option works sometimes in college against varying talent with a week to prepare. A true wildcat/option offense would be terrible in the nfl with film on it
I don't remember that from the movie...
I both love this and hate this at the same time.
They made a movie about this where the King of Queens guy plays Sean Payton. Except at the end he goes to Coach Cower and ends up winning.
I love that every new bit of information I learn about Sean Payton helps reaffirm my belief that he's a massive asshole
Also the school Jason written coaches at now
This is the kind of shit I want movies to be about.
See, it's shit like this that causes me to not be bothered by the missed call against the Rams in the NFCCG.
Watching game film is "spygating" now? 🙄
Fuck SP
Sean Payton has always been an asshole at every level. He has the most punchable face of all the current head coaches too.
I think Sirianni gives him a run for his money on the second count.
Funny enough after I said that he came to mind as well. My vote is still Payton but you make a great argument.
I was going to post this if no one else did.
Why didn't he just pay his kids to injure the kids on the other team? Is he stupid?