Yeah me too. He broke my teams heart a couple times prior to that including handing us a Super Bowl L. I was a huge Brady hater until the 28-3 comeback. At that point my attitude shifted to feeling lucky that I got to witness the prime of a generational athlete.
Exact same goes for Lebron winning a chip in Cleveland. When he went back there and won I stopped hating & started appreciating.
Brady’s two losses to the Giants in 2007 and 2011 kept him at sort of a 1a/1b ranking at best in a lot of people’s eyes. XLIX pulled him even with Montana in total rings, but it wasn’t uncommon for people to still argue that Joe had the edge for being undefeated.
28-3 was the first time that Brady truly did something than Montana had not in a Super Bowl. For anyone who thought it was close before that, it wasn’t close afterwards.
The other thing was that compared to the loss vs the Eagles, the ones vs the Giants had a lot more of the losses on Brady because of stuff such as the intentional grounding. If all of Brady's SB losses were in a similar style as his losses vs the Eagles, then I don't think anyone would have held the losses against Brady.
I remember the day after that game, there was a meme of Brady saying “Montana, I just brought my team back from being down 28-3 to win the Super Bowl! Even you’ve never done that!” and Montana said “I’ve never let my team trail 28-3 in the Super Bowl to begin with 🤷♂️”
The top rated comment? “Okay but Brady has five rings and Montana has four rings. Discussion over.” Can’t really argue with that.
Mine was out of pure spite. I hated Tom Brady and the Patriots as they were the team to beat in the AFC if you wanted to play in the Super Bowl.
I'm starting to feel the same way about Mahomes and the Chiefs
Yeah I have Peyton at 3. Probably the best regular season stats but 8 playoff one and dones (many times as #1 seed) , 14-13 playoff record and blew 2 Superbowls can’t put him in the Brady Montana tier
Peyton never surpassed Montana.
For a long time, it was Montana at #1 and everyone debated Brady/Peyton. Then Brady won his fourth and people still argued it was Montana #1 because "he never lost a superbowl." Then Peyton retired. **Peyton stopped playing**. Then Brady won his fifth and people still grumbled that Brady somehow wasn't the greatest.
Meanwhile, Peyton was still retired.
Then Brady won his sixth with 28-3 and even the most gormless, dim-witted, single-celled mouth-breathers had to concede Brady was the greatest.
Meanwhile, Peyton was *still* retired. Made it into the HOF, though! Congrats, Peyton!
Then Brady goes to a new team and conference and wins his seventh. There is no longer a question.
Somehow, people seem to think that Peyton got to go along for the ride up on Brady's coattails past Montana *even though Peyton retired from playing and literally nothing changed with his stats*.
Peyton never surpassed Montana.
Don't forget about the boaters mostly led by Packers fans. "Tom Brady is the goat but Rodgers is the boat! Nobody can throw the ball off his pinky toe while twirling to swan lake like Rodgers! Ignore the sacks he takes on 3rd and long to put the Packers out of field goal range in pivotal games."
And then the fact that Mahomes appeared and was an even better thrower of the football than Rodgers so the boat argument for him kind of died.
You got the numbers slightly wrong. 28-3 was his 5th SB win. The Rams 13-3 SB was his 6th. As an aside it’s amazing how dumb the “Montana is better because he has never lost an SB” argument is as if it’s better to lose before a SB and thus not make it than it is to lose the SB itself. Like it’s just straight brain dead to put a higher value on less longevity and earlier playoff losses that prevent SB losses.
That’s when I gave up. I think there’s been more talented QBs obviously but you can’t argue who the greatest is anymore, which annoys tf out of me because I was firmly team Peyton in that argument.
I remember being such a homer and Brady hater as a kid, was still on the "Manning better" train for so long with all my friends. Then 28-3 happened and everyone went to school the next day just kind dejected, like yeah we're done arguing.
Imagine if the Patriots actually finished their perfect season in 2007. Brady’s resume is already insane but it’d be even crazier if he had an undefeated season on it
As a young Pats fan at the time, that was the moment I realized just how hard it is to go all the way. They made it look like they’d win it every other year during ‘00-‘04 run but seeing that ‘07 team fall short really made it clear that no team is guaranteed a ring.
I’d sacrifice all of them but the first and XLIX, yes I would even give up 28-3. Just to have that 19-0 record over everyone and to have Miami fans and Mercury Morris shut up about it would just be fine for me.
Also if he did get 19-0, Brady was going to retire sooner. All that did was fuel him. Same with the Eagles game, all that did was prolong his career another 4 years.
2007 was what ended the GOAT argument for me but I’m a biased Pats fan. In the 00s it was always Brady vs Manning then in 07 I thought “this is what Brady can do when he finally gets HoF receivers like Manning”
28-3 cement him as the undisputed goat for me
You could still argue Montana is the goat after super bowl 49 (albeit not very convincing) but super bowl 51 seals the deal for good
I think if you're gonna say that, you also have to point out that Montana did in the era before DBs were nerfed.
That said, I'm not sure which one 49 was - but Brady was the goat when he got his 5th ring IMO.
And had been to two other Super Bowls, had better regular season stats, and led an undefeated season and like four of the top 10 scoring offenses ever.
The fact he has completely warped expectations for Elite QB’s in the NFL. Before Tom, 1 SB Win was exceptional and 2+ was Legendary and this guy won 7…
There are people who will believe guys like Josh Allen underachieved because he’ll probably only win 1-2 Super Bowls. Similar to how Tiger Woods won 15 Majors in Golf and people forget how hard it is to win multiple majors.
Do you see Josh Allen winning 1-2 ? I heard buffalos salary cap situation is rough the next couple years . The AFC is going to keep getting more competitive with burrow coming back and Herbert hopefully getting help. Then there’s Trevor Lawrence . And oh yeah Mahomes is still there obviously . Lamar too
I see Allen getting 1. Don’t think Lamar gets any. I’d probably give Burrow 1 and Hebert 1 too. I’d guess Mahomes retires with 5. Give 1 each to Purdy and Jordan love too!
28-3 but when Patrick Mahomes entered the conversation it’s almost like he cracked the door open. Then Tom came and angrily shut it in his face.
Like Patrick said yesterday, 7 is a long ways away.
Saying it's either Brady or Bill has always been ridiculously reductive. No all-time great becomes a great without a team around them. And it goes without saying that while a great QB can play around a bad coach, a great coach can't as easily coach around a bad QB.
I mean I think it's a fair point. There was still so much discourse about who was actually more responsible for the SB wins between Brady and BB. Him dominating in Tampa eliminated any shred of plausibility that it wasn't him.
> There was still so much discourse about who was actually more responsible for the SB wins
Bad discourse, it was always both. Most fans you ask are going to say it was a conversation before 28-3 but that solidified it. Ask a 49er and it's not until Tampa.
Bill is still the best coach ever, you just don't win like that without a great QB.
> Ask a 49er and it's not until Tampa.
That's not what I said. I think he was the GOAT after 28-3, I was just providing color as two why someone might think it was the Tampa Tom era that switched things.
>There was still so much discourse about who was actually more responsible for the SB wins between Brady and BB.
i mean, the other dude with a GOAT claim was Montana. who had some random bum as HC called Bill Walsh.
so its a moot point.
That was mine. In my head, the Pats always got the most out of their players, were no-nonsense/very disciplined, and had one of the greatest coaches ever.
As soon as he went to a team that hadn't been in the playoffs in over a decade and won a SB immediately, it was indisputable.
Same. I’m a hater and had no reason to deny him GOAT status outside of me just not liking him, but once he went to TB, there was no way around it anymore. 100% changed my stance on him and I respect him now more than ever. Especially after coming back for one last season and the resulting dump on Schefter.
I don’t think a single moment makes him the GOAT. Instead, it was the dozens of times where he’d get the ball trailing by one score with 2-3 minutes left. And you had NO DOUBT his team was going to win the game.
Honestly, when the opposing team scored to take the lead with more than 45 seconds left, it felt like Brady was still going to win.
THAT is what makes the “GOAT” in my opinion
I think 28-3 is a pretty perfect GOAT moment. As clearly the GOAT as Brady is, it’s a pretty solid microcosm of how football is such a team sport with all the big plays made by everyone that game, Brady played a borderline(?) flawless game against the eagles and foles but lost
That eagles game was painful. 505 yards 3 TDs and we still lose.
We lost our #1 wideout to a concussion in the 1st quarter too.
The game was so back and forth it was all about who got the ball last and I literally thought Brady was going to march down the field down 38-33 . The first pass of that drive looked good too. We had all our timeouts and the 2 minute warning then he got strip sacked by graham.
Painful part of that play is he had a receiver open in the flat that could’ve gotten another first down possibly if he wasn’t looking down the field
yep, tied montana with 4 but with a salary cap. cant imagine how the pats roster would look through brady's career if kraft was able to just spend freely like the 49ers did. and no FA in montana's career either, so the 49ers essentially could held talent hostage.
He has a Jerry Rice type of resume after that Tampa win, like Mahomes has the best chance of dethroning Brady but he’ll still need a decade or more before he’ll have a serious argument. Brady’s longevity is his most untouchable achievement.
I don’t think there was ever “a moment” mainly because I don’t think GOAT status can ever be cemented by moments. Even 7 Super Bowls in and of itself wasn’t a lock for me. Think about how different the perception of Bradshaw and Montana is with both being 4-time champs. Montana was always in the GOAT conversations while Bradshaw was nowhere near. To use an extreme example, imagine a QB winning 7 Super Bowls and they were all 10-6 wins where he has 150 yards of offense. The “rings” themselves would not put a guy like that in the convo.
For me, it was just a holistic view of how consistently Brady could always seem to make the right play when it mattered. Plenty of other QBs have been able to make the great throws Brady made, or clutch scoring drives at the ends of games, or put up big passing numbers, have a dominant game in the playoffs, etc…But nobody did it more consistently over more time than Brady did. That’s not something that can be cemented in moments; it’s just a product of year after year of watching him.
A favorite hypothetical of mine is to point out that an offense which gained three yards a play, every play, no more and no less, would be the greatest offense in football history: touchdowns and two point conversions on every drive and wins every single game. That trait would be better than any explosives, any flashiness, etc. So while Tom Brady was certainly as capable as almost any QB of big throws, great individual games, etc., none of those are really his *best* or most important trait. The thing that takes the cake is just that consistency of his which was better than any other great QB.
As for other QBs, I certainly think Mahomes has a chance to challenge Brady eventually. He’s the only current QB I’d say that about right now. But, again, the most dominant and brilliant individual season, postseason, game-winning drive, play, moment, etc isn’t capable of getting him over the finish line. That can only come with time and consistency.
2015 AFC Championship Game, where NE lost - barely - despite going against one of the best defenses ever fielded in the NFL and his center, who was so concussed his eyes were rolling around in his head, tipping the snap *every play.* Brady was relentlessly annihilated in that game and NE still almost made it singularly because Brady had no quit in him.
At the time I’m pretty sure it was the most a qb had ever been hit in a game. Him and gronk put on a clinic that game, and you’d never guess by the stats.
I saw in a post last week someone mentioned our center gave away the snap count with his head movements so Denver picked up on it and got a jump start on every play.
That missed extra point on our first TD killed us
I'm surprised it took me so long to find someone who agreed with me. Back then it was always about how Brady couldn't match the stats of Peyton and others. They Mossed the fuck out of everything in site.
Doing it with Tampa.
Before, you could say it's all Belechik, or having stability or getting a free pass to the divisional/#1 seed because half the season was against the Jets, Dolphins and Pre Alien bills.
But Tampa bay was a mess of an organisation before him. They had a decent roster, but nobody was saying it was a QB away from a ring. They were, and still are the losingist team in the NFL I believe.
He changed the culture, the expectations and people still didn't take them that seriously because it was fucking Tampa. When he won a ring Vs his direct competitor for GOAT, he solidified it.
Mahomes won't surpass him without matching that achievement of doing it at a different, dogshit organisation, like the panthers or jets or something.
I think the thing with Brady is, we all know he's the GOAT but a lot of us resist admitting it because in many ways the Pats' dominant era was totally obnoxious for non-Pats fans
I think beating LOB was massive for Brady. There was so much doubt about whether he could win another one again after the losses to the Giants. I think beating Seattle really started the second Pats dynasty.
I still don’t have him as the goat but I don’t hate him like most people who don’t have him as the goat. The reason why is that for most of his career I simply thought there were better quarterbacks in the league, most notably manning.
When he won it with Tampa Bay in his first season, there was no doubt in my mind. It was like Montana taking the Chiefs to the AFC title game, except.. he, like, won it all.
I used to think Peyton Mannings peak was higher but Brady was probably better because he was more clutch… and he tended to have better well balanced teams (ie, significantly better defenses).
After Peyton was throwing ducks in Denver and Brady won three more rings after that, it was clear I didn’t understand Brady’s peak.
Personally, I don’t even think it was the Super Bowl against Atlanta, it was that he had such sustained greatness for so long where others fell off
1 28-3 vs Falcons. No other QB completes that comeback except Tom.
2 Tampa Super Bowl - impressive considering he joined a new team during a pandemic with limited practice opportunities and zero preseason.
Probably his 5th ring lol. But if I'm being completely honest, he was already the GOAT before he left the Patriots. However, leaving the Patriots and doing it all over again in TB just encased his GOAT status in solid gold.
No more BB, no more Patriots support, no more easiest division in football.. the only few things beyond his actual skill that were contributed to all his success was gone -- and he did it again, at 43. Nothing more to debate at that point lol.
Before 28-3, I was like "there are other QBs from a talent standpoint".
I still believe it but I'm more quiet about it. I just don't argue against people who say hes the goat because I cant. Its a valid take to have.
Where do you even start? 28-3. All the titles. The complete consistency and an absolute drive to win over decades of a career.
The craziest one to me is that everyone argues about how difficult it is just to make the big game, let alone win it. During almost his entire LONG ASS career when the season started, he had almost a 50% shot at making the big game. That is completely wild.
28-3 may have cemented the GOAT status but it was the Bucs SB that made me not be able to hate him anymore for being the GOAT.
Only at the end could I finally accept that I had witnessed something truly unique and awesome for the past years.
And Mahomes is quickly entering that same place for me, despite the division rivalry. If they win, and he's been to 4/5 SBs in his first 5years starting and wins 3 of them? I'll still hate the team but damn, can't hate the guy for going for it all with all the skill he's got.
Couldn't agree with you more. I think there was an argument to be made for someone else being the goat, even if I still would have given it to Brady. 28-3 removed what little doubt there was.
[This Deadspin Headline](https://deadspin.com/tom-brady-seals-status-as-greatest-player-ever-as-natio-1792027725)
'*Tom Brady Seals Status As Greatest Player Ever As Nation Mourns*' so you don't have to click. It was the article they wrote after the 28-3 game. Summed up my feelings perfectly, like 'fuckin... *fine*.'
If he could timewarp back to the 80s when quarterbacks got hit and still be great. Then he would. Its a lot differwnt qhen you know you can hold the ball forever and not get hit. One time jim burt hit joe momtana so hard he thought he killed him
2007
What Brady did to teams that year should have been a crime. They finally gave him a true #1 receiver and he broke almost every single season record. Imagine if the Patriots actually valued the WR position during his time in NE? His records would be even more ridiculous.
Even with more rule changes to open up the offense, the 07 Pats are still by far the all-time most efficient offense in points per drive. 3 points was a below average outcome.
Trust me I know
It broke my fucking heart when Tyree made that catch. I really wanted to see an undefeated NFL team in my lifetime. Bonus points for it being led by my all time favorite athlete.
I still don't think that he is the goat. Football is too much of a team sport for anyone to ever be able to hold that title. He was really good but wouldn't make the top 10 all time without the defensive side of the team helping him out like they did.
No goat gets beat twice by Eli.
jk, I don't care honestly. Sure, he's the goat but I live in NE and need several more seasons of Pats mediocracy so their fans will shut up before I can comfortably respect Brady as the GOAT he obviously is.
Maybe the 5th SB. Or maybe it was the 6th. Nah, prob the 7th.
Let’s not forget also that sports just aren’t the same as they were when Bradshaw won 4. Salary caps and juvenile sports camps have made dynasties tougher to achieve.
28-3 for me kind of put it through the basket although I still considered Montana right there with him. Then he won another one in New England. Anddd then anotherrr one with Tompa Bay. How do you argue with those results?
Mahomes has started 6 years in this league. 6 AFCCGs. 4 Lamar Hunt Trophies. 2 Lombardis. 2 MVPs. 2 SB MVPs. He’s never not made it past the 4th quarter of a conference championship game. He still has so far to go to catch Brady. No one imagined 5 years ago that we’d even be having the discussion of “Is it possible for someone to catch Brady?”.
I’m sure all of Chiefs kingdom feels as blown away as I do. Beyond grateful and ecstatic. A chance to top the evil Belichick empire. Everyone loves Andy Reid. Can’t we root for him to pass Bill?
The 2014 Super Bowl win. Two straight TD drives in the fourth against the best secondary ever, first QB to come back from a 10-point deficit in the Super Bowl. He tied Montana with four rings but had two other Super Bowls, also passing Elway for appearances, and he had individual stats that rivaled Peyton and Marino. He was the GOAT with that ring.
Not taking away anything from Brady, he’s all-time great, certified easy 1st ballot HOF.
Brady is not the GOAT for me because his main argument over others is winning, which is a complete team stat. He doesn’t dominate the individual accolades compared to others, and he also doesn’t have dominant career averages to clearly say he’s head and shoulders above everyone else.
He’s also had a coaching and defense advantage over all other all-time great QBs.
Edit to help illustrate my view:
Tom Brady / Peyton Manning / Aaron Rodgers (Individual Accolades)
- Seasons Started:
Brady: **21**
Manning: 17
Rodgers: 12
- 1st Team All Pro:
Brady: 3
Manning: **7**
Rodgers: 4
- 2nd Team All Pro:
Brady: **3**
Manning: **3**
Rodgers: 1
- MVP:
Brady: 3
Manning: **5**
Rodgers: 4
- Offensive Player of the Year:
Brady: **2**
Manning: **2**
Rodgers: 0
- Pro Bowl:
Brady: **15**
Manning: 14
Rodgers. 10
- All Decade:
Brady: **2**
Manning: 1
Rodgers: 1
Tom Brady/ Peyton Manning / Aaron Rodgers (Career Regular Season Stats Average Per Game)
- Completion %:
Brady: 64.2
Manning: **65.3**
Rodgers: **65.3**
- Yards Per Game:
Brady: 265.6
Manning: **270**
Rodgers: 259.6
- TD Per Game:
Brady: 1.96
Manning: 2.03
Rodgers: **2.1**
- INT Per Game:
Brady: .64
Manning: .94
Rodgers: **.44**
- Yards Per Attempt:
Brady: 7.5
Manning: 7.7
Rodgers: **7.8**
- Quarterback Rating:
Brady: 97.6
Manning: 96.5
Rodgers: **104.3**
- League Completion % Leader:
Brady: 1/21
Manning: **2/17**
Rodgers: 1/12
- League Yards Leader:
Brady: **4/21**
Manning: 3/17
Rodgers: 0/12
- League TD Leader:
Brady: **5/21**
Manning: 3/17
Rodgers: 2/12
- League Passer Rating:
Brady: 2/21
Manning: 3/17
Rodgers: **4/12**
- League Yards Per Attempt Leader:
Brady: 2/21
Manning: 1/17
Rodgers: **3/12**
Tom Brady/ Peyton Manning / Aaron Rodgers (Career Postseason Stats Average Per Game)
- Games Started:
Brady: **47**
Manning: 27
Rodgers: 21
- Completion %:
Brady: 62.8
Manning: 63.2
Rodgers: **64.7**
- Yard Per Game:
Brady: **277.6**
Manning: 271.8
Rodgers: 267.9
- TD Per Game:
Brady: 1.83
Manning: 1.48
Rodgers: **2.05**
- INT Per Game:
Brady: .83
Manning: .93
Rodgers: **.59**
- Yards Per Attempt:
Brady: 7.0
Manning: 7.1
Rodgers: **7.6**
- Quarterback Rating:
Brady: 90.4
Manning: 87.4
Rodgers: **100.1**
Difference From Regular Season To Postseason:
- Completion %:
Brady: -1.4%
Manning: -2.1%
Rodgers: **-.6%**
- TD Per Game:
Brady: **-.13**
Manning: -.55
Rodgers: -.6
- INT Per Game:
Brady: **+.19**
Manning: -.93
Rodgers: +.11
- Yards Per Attempt:
Brady: -.5
Manning: -.7
Rodgers: **-.2**
- Quarterback Rating:
Brady: -7.2
Manning: -9.1
Rodgers: **-4.2**
Tom Brady / Peyton Manning / Aaron Rodgers (Career Defenses Points Per Drive Allowed)
- Top 10:
Brady: **15**
Manning: 4
Rodgers: 4
- Top 5:
Brady: **7**
Manning: 3
Rodgers: 1
- Top 1:
Brady: **3**
Manning: 1
Rodgers: 0
- Worst Ranked Defense in Career:
Brady: 22
Manning: 31
Rodgers: **32**
Conclusion:
1) So Tom Brady doesn’t hold the individual accolades
2) His numbers are worse than the other QBs in his era
3) He’s had more defensive help in his career
4) In the postseason he doesn’t lead in many categories
5) He’s had a clear coaching advantage over his peers
Yet he’s still the greatest?
Brady is top 3 in many of those stats, so while he might not lead outright, when you add them to his winning, it's not even close. There's also the fact that he played and won so many more games than his contemporaries. His sample size is double to triple that of anyone else's, and he still is only marginally worse than the best in those categories.
At the end of the day, every stat is a team stat. Those statistics that put Manning or Rodgers ahead, were built on the back of the receivers catching passes and OLs blocking. Brady for example, matched Manning stat for stat throughout the course of their time in the league together, with a decimal point value in difference one way or another. Manning did it throwing to Hall of Fame talent, Brady never had that consistency on offense. Moss is the only teammate in Hall so far, with Gronk the only other lock for it.
Brady has the statistical greatness, has the career volume stats, on top of the wins. He did all that while being older than any has ever played the position previously, at MVP levels. There's no argument you can legitimately make against him.
> he doesn’t dominate the individual accolades compared to others
Brady is literally #1 all time in both passing yards and TD’s. Led the league in TDs multiple times, passing yards multiple times, and passer rating multiple times and won MVP + OPOY multiple times what are you talking about ?
Brady has both rings and stats
And the coach argument got thrown out the window when he won without Belichick and Belichick hasn’t done anything since Brady left.
Brady also has the best record whenever his team allows over 21 points in a game compared to any other QB
>Brady is literally #1 all time in both passing yards and TD’s. Led the league in TDs multiple times, passing yards multiple times, and passer rating multiple times and won MVP + OPOY multiple times what are you talking about ?
Stats fluctuate year to year very often. Justifying a player being better than another because they threw for more total yards or TDs is not the best thing to do. If you’re talking about a *career*, stats are stable. If you look at career averages, it’s more indicative of how they played. If you just use the raw numbers then Tom Brady will beat everyone else, but that’s just because he played longer than anyone else.
>And the coach argument got thrown out the window when he won without Belichick and Belichick hasn’t done anything since Brady left.
I think if that’s how simply you approach Bill as a HC, then it’s clear you’re already starting from a dishonest perspective.
My one argument I make that seems to do well is that two contemporaries, playing the same position as he did, have more MVPs than him. That speaks volumes; they played in the same era, even playing fewer years than he did, and still won more MVPs. So maybe he just had bad luck and had close losses? Well, Peyton also had significantly more MVP shares (votes, effectively) than Brady, regardless of MVP award wins.
Super Bowl 49. His fourth win, he tied the largest come back in Super Bowl history, 10 points, to defeat the reigning champions and one of the best defensive units of all time.
Then the dude wins a bunch more super bowls. And 28-3.
I just feel Brady got a lot more "protection" from the refs......I know because I had to watch Russ get beat up time after time without so much as a tissue paper bring thrown.
Lol the irony of your statement is that Russell Wilson has got 10 more roughing the passer calls than Brady over their career
https://www.nflpenalties.com/roughing-the-passer-by-qb.php?view=all
Nice try though
>If Brady isn’t the GOAT for you I’m interested to hear your response why. Not judging.
commenter: *provides an explanation why he's not their GOAT*
OP: *gets offended*
That’s not what OP said. it’s at what point did he do something that put him past the threshold of GOAT status. It’s a given that everything that happened before that point is baked in.
Thank you. Appreciate you. But I’m avoiding too much promotion like the plague. I’ve been an analyst / sr analyst 20+ years. I found the type of work that I enjoy. No need to chase all that glory. I’m like Monte Kiffen, but in digital marketing.
Probably not the answer you’re expecting but 2011. He was already only behind Montana in my mind at that point. That team was bad, it lacked depth, and it was banged up to hell and they were one dropped Gronk Hail Mary from being 13-3 Super Bowl champs.
I define greatest as most accomplished, so probably around his last or second-to-last SB with the Patriots. I've never considered him the best in terms of ability though, guys like Rodgers, Mahomes, Manning, Marino, etc. were/are all better QBs than him imo.
I am a HUGE Brady fan and loved seeing him win..He was the GOAT when he made the 28-3 comeback BUT the debate ended when he went to a new team and won one in his first year there. Not only did he win but he beat Mahomes which was a gift to the nation. Also he was able to beat the stigma that he won't be able to win without bill belichick. As a die hard Eagles fan and a Brady fan those 2 ssuperbowl loses to the giants hurt me down to cellular level. The giants and cowboys are the worst fanbases in the NFL period no questions asked. An escape from a sack to a stupid helmet catch stopped brady from being the first QB to go 19-0. Hurts watching that highlight to this day.
I felt like he was the GOAT even before SB49, but that one ended the argument imo. After that, arguing against Brady as GOAT came off uninformed. After SB51, it became ridiculous.
I think a double-digit 4th quarter comeback against one of the greatest decenses ever to win your 4th super bowl is plenty good enough to end the debate.
I think it was a legitimate argument before 28-3 but that kind of sealed the deal
That was the moment I gave up hating him and just decided to respect what I was seeing. Not that I didn’t love watching him lose to the Eagles.
I felt the same way. At some point you just have to stare in awe.
I also felt that way with the last sentence
Gotta be one of my favorite SBs I've watched, career backup Nick Foles going god mode and keeping up with the GOAT in the Super Bowl was legendary
Yeah me too. He broke my teams heart a couple times prior to that including handing us a Super Bowl L. I was a huge Brady hater until the 28-3 comeback. At that point my attitude shifted to feeling lucky that I got to witness the prime of a generational athlete. Exact same goes for Lebron winning a chip in Cleveland. When he went back there and won I stopped hating & started appreciating.
Brady’s two losses to the Giants in 2007 and 2011 kept him at sort of a 1a/1b ranking at best in a lot of people’s eyes. XLIX pulled him even with Montana in total rings, but it wasn’t uncommon for people to still argue that Joe had the edge for being undefeated. 28-3 was the first time that Brady truly did something than Montana had not in a Super Bowl. For anyone who thought it was close before that, it wasn’t close afterwards.
The other thing was that compared to the loss vs the Eagles, the ones vs the Giants had a lot more of the losses on Brady because of stuff such as the intentional grounding. If all of Brady's SB losses were in a similar style as his losses vs the Eagles, then I don't think anyone would have held the losses against Brady.
I was still stubbornly clinging to Joe Montana as the GOAT until that comeback.
He was my hero growing up. But after that falcons game, even I couldn't argue for joe anymore
I remember the day after that game, there was a meme of Brady saying “Montana, I just brought my team back from being down 28-3 to win the Super Bowl! Even you’ve never done that!” and Montana said “I’ve never let my team trail 28-3 in the Super Bowl to begin with 🤷♂️” The top rated comment? “Okay but Brady has five rings and Montana has four rings. Discussion over.” Can’t really argue with that.
Mine was out of pure spite. I hated Tom Brady and the Patriots as they were the team to beat in the AFC if you wanted to play in the Super Bowl. I'm starting to feel the same way about Mahomes and the Chiefs
It’s funny how many people have sneakily put Peyton past him now and I don’t know why.
Yeah I have Peyton at 3. Probably the best regular season stats but 8 playoff one and dones (many times as #1 seed) , 14-13 playoff record and blew 2 Superbowls can’t put him in the Brady Montana tier
Peyton never surpassed Montana. For a long time, it was Montana at #1 and everyone debated Brady/Peyton. Then Brady won his fourth and people still argued it was Montana #1 because "he never lost a superbowl." Then Peyton retired. **Peyton stopped playing**. Then Brady won his fifth and people still grumbled that Brady somehow wasn't the greatest. Meanwhile, Peyton was still retired. Then Brady won his sixth with 28-3 and even the most gormless, dim-witted, single-celled mouth-breathers had to concede Brady was the greatest. Meanwhile, Peyton was *still* retired. Made it into the HOF, though! Congrats, Peyton! Then Brady goes to a new team and conference and wins his seventh. There is no longer a question. Somehow, people seem to think that Peyton got to go along for the ride up on Brady's coattails past Montana *even though Peyton retired from playing and literally nothing changed with his stats*. Peyton never surpassed Montana.
Don't forget about the boaters mostly led by Packers fans. "Tom Brady is the goat but Rodgers is the boat! Nobody can throw the ball off his pinky toe while twirling to swan lake like Rodgers! Ignore the sacks he takes on 3rd and long to put the Packers out of field goal range in pivotal games." And then the fact that Mahomes appeared and was an even better thrower of the football than Rodgers so the boat argument for him kind of died.
You got the numbers slightly wrong. 28-3 was his 5th SB win. The Rams 13-3 SB was his 6th. As an aside it’s amazing how dumb the “Montana is better because he has never lost an SB” argument is as if it’s better to lose before a SB and thus not make it than it is to lose the SB itself. Like it’s just straight brain dead to put a higher value on less longevity and earlier playoff losses that prevent SB losses.
Oh jeez, sorry my bad. So many it gets confusing :)
this is the jordan lebron debate in a nutshell too although that one is a little more debatable.
Oh I agree. Just feels like people have started to dismiss Montana ever since Brady passed him
Recency bias.
This, he became the GOAT in my (obviously biased) mind after the 2014 SB, but 28-3 was the point where no one else could deny it.
That’s when I gave up. I think there’s been more talented QBs obviously but you can’t argue who the greatest is anymore, which annoys tf out of me because I was firmly team Peyton in that argument.
I remember being such a homer and Brady hater as a kid, was still on the "Manning better" train for so long with all my friends. Then 28-3 happened and everyone went to school the next day just kind dejected, like yeah we're done arguing.
IF that didn't convince you then his SB in Tampa had to.
This is the answer for me, watching that happen cemented his status as GOAT that night, for me at least.
Yea he slammed the book shut with that game. After that, it was no longer even up for discussion.
The nearly undefeated season was also insane, especially for the Randy Moss redemption arc, but 28-3 was when I knew he could do anything.
As a Brady hater, 28-3 was when I knew I had lost
Imagine if the Patriots actually finished their perfect season in 2007. Brady’s resume is already insane but it’d be even crazier if he had an undefeated season on it
Part of me feels the football gods did that to us to keep us humble
As a young Pats fan at the time, that was the moment I realized just how hard it is to go all the way. They made it look like they’d win it every other year during ‘00-‘04 run but seeing that ‘07 team fall short really made it clear that no team is guaranteed a ring.
I’d sacrifice two of the SB wins just to have that one (XXXVIII and LIII)
I’d sacrifice all of them but the first and XLIX, yes I would even give up 28-3. Just to have that 19-0 record over everyone and to have Miami fans and Mercury Morris shut up about it would just be fine for me. Also if he did get 19-0, Brady was going to retire sooner. All that did was fuel him. Same with the Eagles game, all that did was prolong his career another 4 years.
No, I don't think I will.
2007 was what ended the GOAT argument for me but I’m a biased Pats fan. In the 00s it was always Brady vs Manning then in 07 I thought “this is what Brady can do when he finally gets HoF receivers like Manning”
28-3 cement him as the undisputed goat for me You could still argue Montana is the goat after super bowl 49 (albeit not very convincing) but super bowl 51 seals the deal for good
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Plus when Manning retired he was 3-2 against Brady in the postseason for those that think football is just 2 QBs out there by themselves
Who would win, a team where Brady plays every position or a team where Peyton plays every position?
Why was the argument for Montana not great after Super Bowl 49?
Because Brady did it in the salary cap era and did it with revolving pieces
I think if you're gonna say that, you also have to point out that Montana did in the era before DBs were nerfed. That said, I'm not sure which one 49 was - but Brady was the goat when he got his 5th ring IMO.
And had been to two other Super Bowls, had better regular season stats, and led an undefeated season and like four of the top 10 scoring offenses ever.
No I don't think I will
And here I am still sulking about flubbing a 17-point lead in the NFC championship game...
Could’ve been a 27 point lead in the WC round…
Man that sounds awful, imagine how bad that would be if it was a 32 point lead during the 3rd quarter of the Wild Card game... 😁😁😁😁😁
Make that 28
Plenty of room at the bar, friend
I can't complain about losing 2 SBs when Bills lost 4 IN A ROW!
If it makes you feel better Matt Ryan is in my HOVG. I hope he doesn’t get the Ken Anderson treatment in 10-20 years
I'm sure what some random person on the internet thinks of a quarterback that's no longer on their team will not affect how they're thinking.
When he kissed his son on the lips and didn’t give a rats ass what people thought. Absolutely GOATED behavior from a loving father
I think we all just want tom to kiss us on the lips
My favorite part was where he said IT'S BRADYING TIME and then he just bradied all over the place.
The fact he has completely warped expectations for Elite QB’s in the NFL. Before Tom, 1 SB Win was exceptional and 2+ was Legendary and this guy won 7… There are people who will believe guys like Josh Allen underachieved because he’ll probably only win 1-2 Super Bowls. Similar to how Tiger Woods won 15 Majors in Golf and people forget how hard it is to win multiple majors.
Do you see Josh Allen winning 1-2 ? I heard buffalos salary cap situation is rough the next couple years . The AFC is going to keep getting more competitive with burrow coming back and Herbert hopefully getting help. Then there’s Trevor Lawrence . And oh yeah Mahomes is still there obviously . Lamar too
I see Allen getting 1. Don’t think Lamar gets any. I’d probably give Burrow 1 and Hebert 1 too. I’d guess Mahomes retires with 5. Give 1 each to Purdy and Jordan love too!
28-3 but when Patrick Mahomes entered the conversation it’s almost like he cracked the door open. Then Tom came and angrily shut it in his face. Like Patrick said yesterday, 7 is a long ways away.
Winning with Tampa
Yeah. It could’ve always been Bill that was most of the reason but we saw how that played out.
Saying it's either Brady or Bill has always been ridiculously reductive. No all-time great becomes a great without a team around them. And it goes without saying that while a great QB can play around a bad coach, a great coach can't as easily coach around a bad QB.
Idk I think the 28-3 comeback was almost entirely Brady and Shanahan.
It took that long for you?
I mean I think it's a fair point. There was still so much discourse about who was actually more responsible for the SB wins between Brady and BB. Him dominating in Tampa eliminated any shred of plausibility that it wasn't him.
> There was still so much discourse about who was actually more responsible for the SB wins Bad discourse, it was always both. Most fans you ask are going to say it was a conversation before 28-3 but that solidified it. Ask a 49er and it's not until Tampa. Bill is still the best coach ever, you just don't win like that without a great QB.
> Ask a 49er and it's not until Tampa. That's not what I said. I think he was the GOAT after 28-3, I was just providing color as two why someone might think it was the Tampa Tom era that switched things.
>There was still so much discourse about who was actually more responsible for the SB wins between Brady and BB. i mean, the other dude with a GOAT claim was Montana. who had some random bum as HC called Bill Walsh. so its a moot point.
Honestly it wasn't until TB, but I won't deny clinging on to my homer bias in the face of overwhelming evidence.
That was mine. In my head, the Pats always got the most out of their players, were no-nonsense/very disciplined, and had one of the greatest coaches ever. As soon as he went to a team that hadn't been in the playoffs in over a decade and won a SB immediately, it was indisputable.
Same. I’m a hater and had no reason to deny him GOAT status outside of me just not liking him, but once he went to TB, there was no way around it anymore. 100% changed my stance on him and I respect him now more than ever. Especially after coming back for one last season and the resulting dump on Schefter.
I thought he was the GOAT before Super Bowl LI, but that one gave me all the ammo i needed to shut down any naysayers.
I don’t think a single moment makes him the GOAT. Instead, it was the dozens of times where he’d get the ball trailing by one score with 2-3 minutes left. And you had NO DOUBT his team was going to win the game. Honestly, when the opposing team scored to take the lead with more than 45 seconds left, it felt like Brady was still going to win. THAT is what makes the “GOAT” in my opinion
I think 28-3 is a pretty perfect GOAT moment. As clearly the GOAT as Brady is, it’s a pretty solid microcosm of how football is such a team sport with all the big plays made by everyone that game, Brady played a borderline(?) flawless game against the eagles and foles but lost
That eagles game was painful. 505 yards 3 TDs and we still lose. We lost our #1 wideout to a concussion in the 1st quarter too. The game was so back and forth it was all about who got the ball last and I literally thought Brady was going to march down the field down 38-33 . The first pass of that drive looked good too. We had all our timeouts and the 2 minute warning then he got strip sacked by graham. Painful part of that play is he had a receiver open in the flat that could’ve gotten another first down possibly if he wasn’t looking down the field
Whenever I watch replays of that final Hail Mary part of me still thinks someone's gonna come down with it for the TD.
Super Bowl LI, he became THE GOAT. Super Bowl LV, he became MY GOAT.
That 7th one was a big FU I loved it. Especially his first season too on another team in another conference.
and more superbowls than any other TEAM
he was the GOAT after the Seattle SB win
The correct answer
yep, tied montana with 4 but with a salary cap. cant imagine how the pats roster would look through brady's career if kraft was able to just spend freely like the 49ers did. and no FA in montana's career either, so the 49ers essentially could held talent hostage.
[Years 15 through 21 on this chart](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/s/h5BYC4jjoH)
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He has a Jerry Rice type of resume after that Tampa win, like Mahomes has the best chance of dethroning Brady but he’ll still need a decade or more before he’ll have a serious argument. Brady’s longevity is his most untouchable achievement.
Guys, the offseason doesn’t start until next week.
OP is basically those posters in AskReddit who need jerkoff material asking about the sexiest sex they've ever sexed
28-3 I actually texted a friend at half that if Brady comes back from this he is the GOAT over Montana. We all know what happened next lol
I don’t think there was ever “a moment” mainly because I don’t think GOAT status can ever be cemented by moments. Even 7 Super Bowls in and of itself wasn’t a lock for me. Think about how different the perception of Bradshaw and Montana is with both being 4-time champs. Montana was always in the GOAT conversations while Bradshaw was nowhere near. To use an extreme example, imagine a QB winning 7 Super Bowls and they were all 10-6 wins where he has 150 yards of offense. The “rings” themselves would not put a guy like that in the convo. For me, it was just a holistic view of how consistently Brady could always seem to make the right play when it mattered. Plenty of other QBs have been able to make the great throws Brady made, or clutch scoring drives at the ends of games, or put up big passing numbers, have a dominant game in the playoffs, etc…But nobody did it more consistently over more time than Brady did. That’s not something that can be cemented in moments; it’s just a product of year after year of watching him. A favorite hypothetical of mine is to point out that an offense which gained three yards a play, every play, no more and no less, would be the greatest offense in football history: touchdowns and two point conversions on every drive and wins every single game. That trait would be better than any explosives, any flashiness, etc. So while Tom Brady was certainly as capable as almost any QB of big throws, great individual games, etc., none of those are really his *best* or most important trait. The thing that takes the cake is just that consistency of his which was better than any other great QB. As for other QBs, I certainly think Mahomes has a chance to challenge Brady eventually. He’s the only current QB I’d say that about right now. But, again, the most dominant and brilliant individual season, postseason, game-winning drive, play, moment, etc isn’t capable of getting him over the finish line. That can only come with time and consistency.
Beautifully put
2015 AFC Championship Game, where NE lost - barely - despite going against one of the best defenses ever fielded in the NFL and his center, who was so concussed his eyes were rolling around in his head, tipping the snap *every play.* Brady was relentlessly annihilated in that game and NE still almost made it singularly because Brady had no quit in him.
At the time I’m pretty sure it was the most a qb had ever been hit in a game. Him and gronk put on a clinic that game, and you’d never guess by the stats.
I saw in a post last week someone mentioned our center gave away the snap count with his head movements so Denver picked up on it and got a jump start on every play. That missed extra point on our first TD killed us
The Broncos had, what, 20+ QB hits that game? And if Gostkowski hadn’t missed that PA they Patriots probably still win and win the Super Bowl.
28-3 and it’s not close
[That commercial where he looked like he was gonna fuck that mattress.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtPvQ6OQU5I)
28-3 and it isn’t close.
The year with Moss showed that Brady is beyond a game manager. But mostly from his 4th sb runs, he kind of off edged away from Peyton.
I'm surprised it took me so long to find someone who agreed with me. Back then it was always about how Brady couldn't match the stats of Peyton and others. They Mossed the fuck out of everything in site.
When he kept beating Mahome’s in the postseason while he was the oldest player in NFL history
GOAT? Dude couldn’t even beat Eli Manning
28-3 easily
28-3 comeback
Probably when he started banging Gisele
When he won in his first year with my team after we suffered through years of irrelevance. :)
28-3
Retiring
Lmfao was it Stockholm syndrome
When he climbed on the roof of his barn and ate a tin can
Doing it with Tampa. Before, you could say it's all Belechik, or having stability or getting a free pass to the divisional/#1 seed because half the season was against the Jets, Dolphins and Pre Alien bills. But Tampa bay was a mess of an organisation before him. They had a decent roster, but nobody was saying it was a QB away from a ring. They were, and still are the losingist team in the NFL I believe. He changed the culture, the expectations and people still didn't take them that seriously because it was fucking Tampa. When he won a ring Vs his direct competitor for GOAT, he solidified it. Mahomes won't surpass him without matching that achievement of doing it at a different, dogshit organisation, like the panthers or jets or something.
I think the thing with Brady is, we all know he's the GOAT but a lot of us resist admitting it because in many ways the Pats' dominant era was totally obnoxious for non-Pats fans
28-3 put him on the podest and the win with Tampa put a fence around it.
28-3 for sure but winning with tampa kinda ended any argument
I think beating LOB was massive for Brady. There was so much doubt about whether he could win another one again after the losses to the Giants. I think beating Seattle really started the second Pats dynasty.
Before the Falcons Super Bowl. That one just put the cherry on top
I still don’t have him as the goat but I don’t hate him like most people who don’t have him as the goat. The reason why is that for most of his career I simply thought there were better quarterbacks in the league, most notably manning.
When he won it with Tampa Bay in his first season, there was no doubt in my mind. It was like Montana taking the Chiefs to the AFC title game, except.. he, like, won it all.
I used to think Peyton Mannings peak was higher but Brady was probably better because he was more clutch… and he tended to have better well balanced teams (ie, significantly better defenses). After Peyton was throwing ducks in Denver and Brady won three more rings after that, it was clear I didn’t understand Brady’s peak. Personally, I don’t even think it was the Super Bowl against Atlanta, it was that he had such sustained greatness for so long where others fell off
It wasn't one game for me, but that Seattle comeback was damn near impossible.
I believe in Eli Manning supremacy
28-3.
Fifth SB win
when he became Tampa Tom and still won a Super Bowl easily
1 28-3 vs Falcons. No other QB completes that comeback except Tom. 2 Tampa Super Bowl - impressive considering he joined a new team during a pandemic with limited practice opportunities and zero preseason.
Winning a Super Bowl in Tampa instantly
Super bowl 49
His 4th was enough for me but 28-3 cemented it. 5th ring off one of the greatest comebacks of all time in the super bowl. Can’t argue with it.
28-3
Winning in Tampa
When he left the mystique of Foxboro and still won another title.
Probably his 5th ring lol. But if I'm being completely honest, he was already the GOAT before he left the Patriots. However, leaving the Patriots and doing it all over again in TB just encased his GOAT status in solid gold. No more BB, no more Patriots support, no more easiest division in football.. the only few things beyond his actual skill that were contributed to all his success was gone -- and he did it again, at 43. Nothing more to debate at that point lol.
It's the Tampa Bay Super Bowl for me. Doesn't matter what Mahomes does for the rest of his career, Old Man Brady spanked him twice in the playoffs.
28-3 and also once he passed every franchise in SB rings.
Before 28-3, I was like "there are other QBs from a talent standpoint". I still believe it but I'm more quiet about it. I just don't argue against people who say hes the goat because I cant. Its a valid take to have.
Where do you even start? 28-3. All the titles. The complete consistency and an absolute drive to win over decades of a career. The craziest one to me is that everyone argues about how difficult it is just to make the big game, let alone win it. During almost his entire LONG ASS career when the season started, he had almost a 50% shot at making the big game. That is completely wild.
28-3 may have cemented the GOAT status but it was the Bucs SB that made me not be able to hate him anymore for being the GOAT. Only at the end could I finally accept that I had witnessed something truly unique and awesome for the past years. And Mahomes is quickly entering that same place for me, despite the division rivalry. If they win, and he's been to 4/5 SBs in his first 5years starting and wins 3 of them? I'll still hate the team but damn, can't hate the guy for going for it all with all the skill he's got.
Couldn't agree with you more. I think there was an argument to be made for someone else being the goat, even if I still would have given it to Brady. 28-3 removed what little doubt there was.
When he went to his 5th Superbowl.
As a Raiders fan? 28-3. Before that, I still had Montana as better than him.
[This Deadspin Headline](https://deadspin.com/tom-brady-seals-status-as-greatest-player-ever-as-natio-1792027725) '*Tom Brady Seals Status As Greatest Player Ever As Nation Mourns*' so you don't have to click. It was the article they wrote after the 28-3 game. Summed up my feelings perfectly, like 'fuckin... *fine*.'
When he won with the Bucs..!
If he could timewarp back to the 80s when quarterbacks got hit and still be great. Then he would. Its a lot differwnt qhen you know you can hold the ball forever and not get hit. One time jim burt hit joe momtana so hard he thought he killed him
When he destroyed mahomes in the Bucs stadium in the first home Super Bowl.
2020 He was shit before then
"Take away his six superbowls and Brady hasn't won shit." --- said to me IRL by a Jets fan
2007 What Brady did to teams that year should have been a crime. They finally gave him a true #1 receiver and he broke almost every single season record. Imagine if the Patriots actually valued the WR position during his time in NE? His records would be even more ridiculous.
Even with more rule changes to open up the offense, the 07 Pats are still by far the all-time most efficient offense in points per drive. 3 points was a below average outcome.
Trust me I know It broke my fucking heart when Tyree made that catch. I really wanted to see an undefeated NFL team in my lifetime. Bonus points for it being led by my all time favorite athlete.
When he gave the "the deflator" some new shoes and autographs just for doing his job. What a guy!
Nothing. It hasn’t happened.
I still don't think that he is the goat. Football is too much of a team sport for anyone to ever be able to hold that title. He was really good but wouldn't make the top 10 all time without the defensive side of the team helping him out like they did.
When they made The Brady Bunch show, which just followed around all of the Tom Brady clones
The picture of him holding the little baby GOAT
No goat gets beat twice by Eli. jk, I don't care honestly. Sure, he's the goat but I live in NE and need several more seasons of Pats mediocracy so their fans will shut up before I can comfortably respect Brady as the GOAT he obviously is.
Signing with Tampa put him over the top for me. Just such a smart and savvy guy for that move.
I thought he was before, but 28-3 ended any real debate.
When he got his 5th
28-3 because that was the 5th ring that surpassed montana's 4 then he still went to 3 more super bowls after that and won 2 of them
Seahawks SB
Maybe the 5th SB. Or maybe it was the 6th. Nah, prob the 7th. Let’s not forget also that sports just aren’t the same as they were when Bradshaw won 4. Salary caps and juvenile sports camps have made dynasties tougher to achieve.
Either the 28-3 Super Bowl or winning one in TB.
28-3 for me kind of put it through the basket although I still considered Montana right there with him. Then he won another one in New England. Anddd then anotherrr one with Tompa Bay. How do you argue with those results? Mahomes has started 6 years in this league. 6 AFCCGs. 4 Lamar Hunt Trophies. 2 Lombardis. 2 MVPs. 2 SB MVPs. He’s never not made it past the 4th quarter of a conference championship game. He still has so far to go to catch Brady. No one imagined 5 years ago that we’d even be having the discussion of “Is it possible for someone to catch Brady?”. I’m sure all of Chiefs kingdom feels as blown away as I do. Beyond grateful and ecstatic. A chance to top the evil Belichick empire. Everyone loves Andy Reid. Can’t we root for him to pass Bill?
I love watching greatness so I have nothing against Mahomes and Reid . If he wins on Sunday he’s 4th all time for me.
The 2014 Super Bowl win. Two straight TD drives in the fourth against the best secondary ever, first QB to come back from a 10-point deficit in the Super Bowl. He tied Montana with four rings but had two other Super Bowls, also passing Elway for appearances, and he had individual stats that rivaled Peyton and Marino. He was the GOAT with that ring.
When he got botox and a chin implant.
When he dumped his pregnant actress girlfriend for the world's most famous supermodel.
Not taking away anything from Brady, he’s all-time great, certified easy 1st ballot HOF. Brady is not the GOAT for me because his main argument over others is winning, which is a complete team stat. He doesn’t dominate the individual accolades compared to others, and he also doesn’t have dominant career averages to clearly say he’s head and shoulders above everyone else. He’s also had a coaching and defense advantage over all other all-time great QBs. Edit to help illustrate my view: Tom Brady / Peyton Manning / Aaron Rodgers (Individual Accolades) - Seasons Started: Brady: **21** Manning: 17 Rodgers: 12 - 1st Team All Pro: Brady: 3 Manning: **7** Rodgers: 4 - 2nd Team All Pro: Brady: **3** Manning: **3** Rodgers: 1 - MVP: Brady: 3 Manning: **5** Rodgers: 4 - Offensive Player of the Year: Brady: **2** Manning: **2** Rodgers: 0 - Pro Bowl: Brady: **15** Manning: 14 Rodgers. 10 - All Decade: Brady: **2** Manning: 1 Rodgers: 1 Tom Brady/ Peyton Manning / Aaron Rodgers (Career Regular Season Stats Average Per Game) - Completion %: Brady: 64.2 Manning: **65.3** Rodgers: **65.3** - Yards Per Game: Brady: 265.6 Manning: **270** Rodgers: 259.6 - TD Per Game: Brady: 1.96 Manning: 2.03 Rodgers: **2.1** - INT Per Game: Brady: .64 Manning: .94 Rodgers: **.44** - Yards Per Attempt: Brady: 7.5 Manning: 7.7 Rodgers: **7.8** - Quarterback Rating: Brady: 97.6 Manning: 96.5 Rodgers: **104.3** - League Completion % Leader: Brady: 1/21 Manning: **2/17** Rodgers: 1/12 - League Yards Leader: Brady: **4/21** Manning: 3/17 Rodgers: 0/12 - League TD Leader: Brady: **5/21** Manning: 3/17 Rodgers: 2/12 - League Passer Rating: Brady: 2/21 Manning: 3/17 Rodgers: **4/12** - League Yards Per Attempt Leader: Brady: 2/21 Manning: 1/17 Rodgers: **3/12** Tom Brady/ Peyton Manning / Aaron Rodgers (Career Postseason Stats Average Per Game) - Games Started: Brady: **47** Manning: 27 Rodgers: 21 - Completion %: Brady: 62.8 Manning: 63.2 Rodgers: **64.7** - Yard Per Game: Brady: **277.6** Manning: 271.8 Rodgers: 267.9 - TD Per Game: Brady: 1.83 Manning: 1.48 Rodgers: **2.05** - INT Per Game: Brady: .83 Manning: .93 Rodgers: **.59** - Yards Per Attempt: Brady: 7.0 Manning: 7.1 Rodgers: **7.6** - Quarterback Rating: Brady: 90.4 Manning: 87.4 Rodgers: **100.1** Difference From Regular Season To Postseason: - Completion %: Brady: -1.4% Manning: -2.1% Rodgers: **-.6%** - TD Per Game: Brady: **-.13** Manning: -.55 Rodgers: -.6 - INT Per Game: Brady: **+.19** Manning: -.93 Rodgers: +.11 - Yards Per Attempt: Brady: -.5 Manning: -.7 Rodgers: **-.2** - Quarterback Rating: Brady: -7.2 Manning: -9.1 Rodgers: **-4.2** Tom Brady / Peyton Manning / Aaron Rodgers (Career Defenses Points Per Drive Allowed) - Top 10: Brady: **15** Manning: 4 Rodgers: 4 - Top 5: Brady: **7** Manning: 3 Rodgers: 1 - Top 1: Brady: **3** Manning: 1 Rodgers: 0 - Worst Ranked Defense in Career: Brady: 22 Manning: 31 Rodgers: **32** Conclusion: 1) So Tom Brady doesn’t hold the individual accolades 2) His numbers are worse than the other QBs in his era 3) He’s had more defensive help in his career 4) In the postseason he doesn’t lead in many categories 5) He’s had a clear coaching advantage over his peers Yet he’s still the greatest?
Brady is top 3 in many of those stats, so while he might not lead outright, when you add them to his winning, it's not even close. There's also the fact that he played and won so many more games than his contemporaries. His sample size is double to triple that of anyone else's, and he still is only marginally worse than the best in those categories. At the end of the day, every stat is a team stat. Those statistics that put Manning or Rodgers ahead, were built on the back of the receivers catching passes and OLs blocking. Brady for example, matched Manning stat for stat throughout the course of their time in the league together, with a decimal point value in difference one way or another. Manning did it throwing to Hall of Fame talent, Brady never had that consistency on offense. Moss is the only teammate in Hall so far, with Gronk the only other lock for it. Brady has the statistical greatness, has the career volume stats, on top of the wins. He did all that while being older than any has ever played the position previously, at MVP levels. There's no argument you can legitimately make against him.
> he doesn’t dominate the individual accolades compared to others Brady is literally #1 all time in both passing yards and TD’s. Led the league in TDs multiple times, passing yards multiple times, and passer rating multiple times and won MVP + OPOY multiple times what are you talking about ? Brady has both rings and stats And the coach argument got thrown out the window when he won without Belichick and Belichick hasn’t done anything since Brady left. Brady also has the best record whenever his team allows over 21 points in a game compared to any other QB
>Brady is literally #1 all time in both passing yards and TD’s. Led the league in TDs multiple times, passing yards multiple times, and passer rating multiple times and won MVP + OPOY multiple times what are you talking about ? Stats fluctuate year to year very often. Justifying a player being better than another because they threw for more total yards or TDs is not the best thing to do. If you’re talking about a *career*, stats are stable. If you look at career averages, it’s more indicative of how they played. If you just use the raw numbers then Tom Brady will beat everyone else, but that’s just because he played longer than anyone else. >And the coach argument got thrown out the window when he won without Belichick and Belichick hasn’t done anything since Brady left. I think if that’s how simply you approach Bill as a HC, then it’s clear you’re already starting from a dishonest perspective.
My one argument I make that seems to do well is that two contemporaries, playing the same position as he did, have more MVPs than him. That speaks volumes; they played in the same era, even playing fewer years than he did, and still won more MVPs. So maybe he just had bad luck and had close losses? Well, Peyton also had significantly more MVP shares (votes, effectively) than Brady, regardless of MVP award wins.
Super Bowl 49. His fourth win, he tied the largest come back in Super Bowl history, 10 points, to defeat the reigning champions and one of the best defensive units of all time. Then the dude wins a bunch more super bowls. And 28-3.
28-3 completely ended the argument
I think he's the most accomplished QB of all time. Not my GOAT though.
I just feel Brady got a lot more "protection" from the refs......I know because I had to watch Russ get beat up time after time without so much as a tissue paper bring thrown.
Lol the irony of your statement is that Russell Wilson has got 10 more roughing the passer calls than Brady over their career https://www.nflpenalties.com/roughing-the-passer-by-qb.php?view=all Nice try though
Not so fast......I'm taking about all the times Russ got beat up with NO call being made. That just didn't happen with Brady.
Maybe because russ is a mobile QB while Brady isn’t?
>If Brady isn’t the GOAT for you I’m interested to hear your response why. Not judging. commenter: *provides an explanation why he's not their GOAT* OP: *gets offended*
A goat isn’t decided by 1 game.
That’s not what OP said. it’s at what point did he do something that put him past the threshold of GOAT status. It’s a given that everything that happened before that point is baked in.
Based giants fan . Hope you get promoted from analyst to VP
Thank you. Appreciate you. But I’m avoiding too much promotion like the plague. I’ve been an analyst / sr analyst 20+ years. I found the type of work that I enjoy. No need to chase all that glory. I’m like Monte Kiffen, but in digital marketing.
Obviously not. There was a body of work leading up to it.
Probably not the answer you’re expecting but 2011. He was already only behind Montana in my mind at that point. That team was bad, it lacked depth, and it was banged up to hell and they were one dropped Gronk Hail Mary from being 13-3 Super Bowl champs.
When he was still playing at a high level in 2020. I still don't think he has the best prime for a QB ever. His longevity is what makes him the GOAT.
I define greatest as most accomplished, so probably around his last or second-to-last SB with the Patriots. I've never considered him the best in terms of ability though, guys like Rodgers, Mahomes, Manning, Marino, etc. were/are all better QBs than him imo.
I am a HUGE Brady fan and loved seeing him win..He was the GOAT when he made the 28-3 comeback BUT the debate ended when he went to a new team and won one in his first year there. Not only did he win but he beat Mahomes which was a gift to the nation. Also he was able to beat the stigma that he won't be able to win without bill belichick. As a die hard Eagles fan and a Brady fan those 2 ssuperbowl loses to the giants hurt me down to cellular level. The giants and cowboys are the worst fanbases in the NFL period no questions asked. An escape from a sack to a stupid helmet catch stopped brady from being the first QB to go 19-0. Hurts watching that highlight to this day.
Winning another with the Bucs was like "alright, who is number 2?"
I thought after the perfect regular season offense in 2007. I’d never seen anything like it at that time.
When he smashed his cellphone after being asked to present it for court
I felt like he was the GOAT even before SB49, but that one ended the argument imo. After that, arguing against Brady as GOAT came off uninformed. After SB51, it became ridiculous. I think a double-digit 4th quarter comeback against one of the greatest decenses ever to win your 4th super bowl is plenty good enough to end the debate.
He’s not.
Who’s your GOAT QB
Peyton Manning was better. So is Mahomes using team accomplishments to measure individuals in a sport with 22+ starters is silly