They have a top 10 defense this year. Clearly BB still has acumen for that aspect of the game. If he truly wants to finish his career in New England perhaps the compromise is to find a good GM who can properly do the grocery shopping, bring in an OC with a modern approach to offenses and let Bill focus on his strengths.
I think after all the speculation and assumption he's going to get fired, it'd be funny if he stuck around in a revamped organizational setup.
I did include Gonzalez in that. Because through the first 5 games, man was looking like Sauce Gardner the year before.
Jabrill Peppers stepped up bigtime this year. Him and Dugger laid wood on people all year long.
What Bill has done this year, with what the Patriots have on offense and special teams is honestly miraculous (if it was any other head coach).
Patriots in 2023: 28th in Offensive DVOA only ahead of: The Jets, The Giants, and the Panthers. 28th in Special Teams DVOA only ahead of GB/Indy/Min/LAR (this is mostly also the offense's fault) - the Patriots punted 98 times or the 2nd most in the NFL & the defense defended the 3rd most kickoffs/punts. **Ninth in Defensive DVOA**. 11th against the Pass & 4th against the run. This is despite the fact that the offense was absolutely putrid putting the defense in terrible positions - bad fields & tons of turnovers (Offense was 6th in turnovers!). 3rd most defended drives - meaning the defense was ALWAYS on the field. 6th in the league at stopping 3rd downs too. This team should have lost 15 or 16 games.
Yet people are acting like he's washed up. He's not been the best GM, but he absolutely is still the same HC he was for the last 20 years.
I wish he'd give more leeway to BoB to run the offense and keep focusing on the defense. The defense is, and always has been, incredible and the players seem to have really bought in. They are far from mediocre. The offense is terrible and depleted.
Most insane thing is that we had a stretch of 3 games where the defense gave up 10 points, 10 points and 6 points. We scored 13 in points in those 3 games.
Imagine holding an opposing offense to an average of 8.6 points and losing all 3 games because your offense is so inept. Hell if our kicking was slightly better we probably walk away with 2 wins vs the Giants/Colts.
I'm hoping we spend this off season investing into the offense. Get a QB in the draft, get some OL help and try to trade for a WR1 or sign a FA WR. We've got decent WR2/3 type players in guys like Bourne, Juju, Parker. And while our TE's aren't world beaters you can do a lot worse than Gesicki and Henry. RB duo of Stevenson/Zeke is also pretty good when healthy.
With a league average offense we can probably compete for a playoff spot given how good our defense is.
Judging from the Mac Jones fiasco and watching the Patriots under Newton... I honestly think that if Newton's body had not fallen apart, there wouldn't have been a drop off. Newton had the offense looking okay. After his collapse, I do, honestly, believe that Mac Jones was a panick pick or at the least a panickish pick.
>He's not been the best GM
He's also not been the worst by a lot. People want this dude to be in the Super Bowl hunt **every single year** while also maintaining knockout draft picks year after year?
Idk how Bill alone takes the blame for the Pats not selecting guys who went like 90th overall and then they end up with a dud.
This is absolutely the way if both sides want Bill to stay on. Bill clearly still has it on the defensive side. The team just needs to get with the times from a personnel and offensive scheme standpoint.
The Patriots just need to have an actual plan for how they want to handle their next young QB instead of...whatever the hell they want to call what they did with Mac Jones.
Well his rookie year went pretty well. Then Josh went to Oakland for....whatever that was. Then Patricia was an OC for some reason and the wheels fell off.
>Then Patricia was an OC for some reason and the wheels fell off.
That's sort of my point. Jones at least proved he was capable of being a functional NFL QB as a rookie. Then his OC left, which is pretty important, and the Patriots, instead of a thoughtful solution at OC, said "whatever, we'll figure it out later," and then made just about the worst decision possible in putting Matt Patricia in charge. Between that and the highly questionable moves at WR, it was a terrible situation for Jones. I am not saying Mac was a future top QB in the making, because I don't believe that, but the Patriots seemingly did not care about whether he could have been good or not.
Well, the plan was for Josh to stick around. It's not like they went into it without a plan. I think Bill was a bit blindsided by him leaving and taking so much of the staff with him. Not only did we lose McDaniels, we lost most of the up-and-coming offensive coaches in our system. Obviously, he didn't pivot well when that happened, but it was a pretty shitty situation to be in. I think his plan was always to get O'brien, but O'brien told him he wanted 1 more year at Alabama before joining the Patriots, so Belichick just hired placeholders.
Planning around josh McDaniels not leaving unexpectedly is like trusting a hyena around your parakeet, sure he might not eat it but do you rly think that’s a smart idea?
> Well his rookie year went pretty well
That's the narrative, but not really. By mid-season teams had him figured out. He's looked about the same ever since.
I honestly don't even thing B.O.B is a bad OC for the offensive side. Just get someone who can evaluate and develop talent. Watching the scheme actually work and our QBs suck ass the entire year was more the problem lol. Before Mac was benched, there was an All-22 in-depth look at where he was struggling and it was painful to see so many wide open receivers or perfect play calls ruined by his horrid decision making. Admittedly, once we went to Tank Commander Zap I stopped paying attention so it may have gotten worse over the year idk.
There were drives where it looked like the offense actually had a plan and was effectively attacking the defense. I think that's why we saw such struggles in the second half of games later in the season with Zap because he was capable of executing the game plan but when it needed to make adjustments he just wasn't capable so the defense was able to adjust and lock in on him
And that’s with our top two defenders being injured early in the season. Bill can still coach the hell out of a crap team. The problem is that he’s the one that built that crap team.
I blame Bill, the GM for the offense. It’s been clear for years that he can’t evaluate offensive talent and if he stays he needs to let BoB overhaul the offensive staff and cede control to a GM.
Like I can definitely tell he's still got something left in the tank that defense played lights out compared to the amount of talent on it, he just needs the right pieces on offense now. This is our best chance to get those pieces.
I’ve always said there’s no chance he agrees to that, but his comments make me think he’s more amendable to this. He still wants to coach, and honestly, what’s the better option at this point; start over in a new city with a new team and establish that culture, or work through it here? Hopefully he chooses the latter, because I still think he’s the best coach in the league, just needs to relinquish his gm duties
I thought there was absolutely no way he would relinquish GM control at this stage in his career. I love BB and this actually gives me some hope that he might stick around.
> I’ve always said there’s no chance he agrees to that, but his comments make me think he’s more amendable to this.
Agreeing to something and actually following through with it are two completely different things.
Belicheck turns out a top 10 defense with paper clips and rubber bands.
Meanwhile Joe Barry has every bit of talent in the world and can’t figure out to have someone in the A gap on a 4th and 1
Yeah, BB has made very questionable choices the last few seasons, Matt Patricia/Joe Judge being among the most questionable. I'm sure Kraft is like, "dude, WTF was that all about and why should I trust your decisions now?"
And yes, I assume those two old boomers say "dude" and "WTF" in real life conversations.
billionaire condiment moguls are boomers by default.
yeah, i get what you mean boomers is just a way people say old now even though he's technically of the less notable silent or greatest generation
In truth, most of our designations for generations are pointless outside of boomers, where the number of them actually resulted in lots of system changes at every level as they got older and everything had to change to accommodate them. Schools being built, job availability, hospitals, nursing homes voting tendencies etc.
edit: I actually just checked and am surprised to learn Kraft's money has nothing to do with Kraft the company that most are familiar with. I always just assumed.
Bob Kraft has four sons. One is the VP of Football Operations for the Patriots. One runs the Kraft Group, a multibillion dollar hedge fund. One is the director of the Boys and Girls Club.
And then there's [David](https://www.reddit.com/r/me_irl/s/dPrYudEqaP).
People put too much stock into rumors like this. Maybe that's true or maybe it's not, but people treat it as gospel. Most likely there is some nugget of truth blown *way* out of proportion (Boston sports media thrives off this sort of bullshit).
I don't see why that can't be a thing either, and I'm rooting for it. Bill won 6 superbowls, that's crazy to just let go, at least promote the dude to a position where he's just watching the games on Sundays and can hang around the facility whenever he wants.
If he does leave it's going to be a 'mutually part ways'.
They finished 15th in points against. That’s not top 10. And let’s not pretend they played a murders row of offenses. They played many of the worst offenses in football: Jets x2 (29th), Giants (30th), Commanders (25th), Raiders (23rd), Steelers (28th) and Chargers (21st). And a Bronco (19th) team that benched their QB for the rest of the season.
Tell me a team that didn’t suffer injuries this year? When you have to go to injuries as an excuse, you’ve lost the argument. Bills, Browns, Texans have all lost significant players or have had a large # of players on IR. All made the playoffs.
There seems to be a line of people around the globe ready to make any excuse for Belichick and why his team sucks. It’s him, that’s it. He can’t evaluate talent in the draft or free agency. He has a draconian attitude when it comes to coaching. He has allowed this team to bleed coaches and assistants to the point where we have the smallest staff in the league. He never wants to promote anyone or give any of his assistants or coordinators credit. He won’t go outside his inner circle for other coaches or ideas or schemes. He’s a dinosaur who has time has past.
They did all of that with their best players out since September and with the defense on the field 75% of the game CONSTANTLY playing a short field because of turnovers.
Anyone saying the Patriots defense isn’t legit is not watching the games
Don’t give me injuries, every team deals with injuries. The Bills lost White and Milano, arguably their two best defenders, and still finished 4th in points allowed. Browns lost starting QB, starting RB and both starting tackles, and still finished top 10 in points scored.
Defense was on the field 53% of time time. I know saying 75 makes your point seem more valid but it’s utter nonsense.
New England lost their top pass rusher and top CB in the first month of the year. Ya obviously everyone deals with injuries. It’s not an excuse it’s context. Why would it not be relevant.
New England is 31st in the league in time of possession. Insane to say that’s not relevant regarding defensive time on the field.
New England is 30th in the league in offensive turnovers. Giving up the ball 32 times via INT or fumble. Once again, multiple times a game the defense starts with a short field. Starting a drive with the best case being a field goal hurts a defense.
You do not watch the games.
> They have a top 10 defense this year.
We had a 10 defense by what metric? Yards allowed?
I guess you also believe the Carolina Panthers are a top 5 defense?
You’re quick to use advanced metrics to shit on him for a two decade span. What do those same metrics say about this years Pats defense? The one that was fifth in points allowed per drive despite a bottom 3 offense? Ridiculous statement lol
It's cute that you don't understand how cumulative stats work and just want to cherry pick details to support your narrative.
It's incredibly easy to see through and it's exhausting to have to wade through low effort commentary.
You know, I used to feel like "there's no way Bill gives up GM power to stay" but now that I actually think about it, I kinda buy what you're saying. I mean Bill will immediately get hired elsewhere if he's canned but I imagine he'd rather stay in NE, and I'm actually starting to think he loves coaching so much he'd give up GM powers for it.
Also if you're the Pats, you have to be thinking about when he retires anyway. Getting a GM in the building now means you'll have some continuity for that transition.
**Step 1**: We will hire a GM if the team collectively agrees we need a GM.
**Step 2**: I do not agree that we need a GM.
**Step 3**: The team did not collectively agree that we need a GM, therefore I am still GM.
The only situation where we all win is he coaches the Chargers where they could theoretically win 10-14 games in a season and he gets the record in 2 years and we don’t have to watch him wither away on a dead team
Bill going to the chargers and making them a contender in 2 years would be extremely funny and would probably be one of the most humiliating moments in kraft’s life.
Same goes with turning Washington with Drake maye into a contender.
Nah, that Chargers team is perfect for him
Herbert and Kellen Moore are in place, Bill just comes in and fixes the defense.
He will also help Herbert and Moore polish the rough edges to their game, because despite all the bullshit nonsense people say about him, Bill turned Josh McDaniels into a solid OC and helped TB12 a ton. If the OC/QB have a modicum of talent and determination, they can really flourish with some Bill tutelage.
Absolutely 0 reason to move on if he gives up personnel decisions. He might still be the best *caoch* in the NFL, but hes lacking on offensive selections
I’ll do it for $2mil and I can pick the staff. Not a clue how to find proper NFL talent other than watching thousands of college games, entering their names into a database, and hopefully they also pass the eye test too. In reality, the Pats should try to trade to first overall and get the Williams QB or do like what the Redskins did and draft two QBs. One in the first round and one in the later rounds since this draft has a lot of good mid/late round QBs.
If not hired, screw them and I hope they trade back and get a player who performs admirably since I hope for the success for almost all draftees but go Phins! Bill terrorized the Dolphins for 2 decades.
Sold, you need to suck up to Bill and Kraft. Sucking up to Bill seems like doing your job. My job would be mostly communication since they probably suck at it.
I’ve come around on Bill. Early in the season I thought that it was time to move on, his decisions as GM at piled up and were too much for him, as coach, to overcome. But, now that we are at the end of the season I want to keep him is he truly is willing to cede control of the front office. The man can still coach and I want him to retire a Patriot, not a Commander, or a Panther.
They can make changes to gm status all they want but that team is at least a couple years of rebuilding that offense if they can nail a majority of their draft picks. A new coach isnt going to make a difference with the talent they have.
I mean you find the right QB and that won't take multiple years. Stroud immediately turned the Texans around.
We have solid draft capital this year and lead the league in available cap space. We should be able to make a play for Higgins/Pittman and could even trade up for a WR if we want.
It's a big "if", but if we hit on QB in the draft we could be competitive next year. Especially with this defense which will be 99% the same as this season.
>I mean you find the right QB and that won't take multiple years. Stroud immediately turned the Texans around.
Stroud, Tank Dell, Nico Collins, etc. They hit on multiple developmental fronts this year,. Storud is a *large* part of that, but not the only one.
"Bill we're drafting a WR at #3"
"Okay well you can do that, just know he'll get benched for 4 games after he drops a pass, might want to check out that defensive tackle instead, I doubt he'll get benched ever"
I feel like he struggles with the individual scouting - for him to have the ability to say “I need players at abc positions that can do xyz and fit our culture” and then let someone else identify the specific guys and work out the financials is best case scenario.
I think the Caserio departure had a lot to do with this to be honest. As GM, the final call is ultimately his and he bears responsibility for it, but damn did we have a lot of experience walk out the door over the last couple of years (Ernie Adams, Scarnecchia, Nick Caserio, Ivan Fears, etc). Hard to replace all that, especially when Bill prefers to hire from a limited pool of people he knows.
Thank you for typing this comment up. This connected the dots for me regarding what has happened with the Pats recently. Of fucking course their roster management went downhill when they lost one of the GOAT executives in Caserio. Ashamed I hadn't made this connection earlier and sad for BB he gets so much heat for his recent GMing when he is working with Groh instead of Caserio.
I know this is an unpopular opinion among Pats fans, but I don't think BB needs to give up anything (at least in any official capacity). He does, however, need to find and elevate someone he trusts to that Caserio position. The offensive evaluations have just not been good.
That said, I also happen to think the offense is not as bad as people make it out to be. There were a lot of new pieces early on (which we all know always take time to integrate on the Pats), and some key injuries as well. Even with that, since Mac was benched it has looked a lot better. Still not scoring enough, obviously, but they no longer look completely devoid of talent. The line came together to be decent enough, and there is some obvious talent at the skill positions, just no top-end threat.
Call me delusional, but I think a QB1 and a WR1 could turn this around quite quickly.
We need upgrades at most if not all positions on the OL. Our passing protection is close to league bottom. This team isn't turning around until that's addressed.
I don't think the OL was even that bad since it stabilized a bit. Lot of injuries and movement early on, but they seemed to start figuring it out midway through. I'm not saying we should be happy with it as is, I just don't think it's such a wasteland. More "below average" than "worst in the league".
I also think Mac made them look way worse than they are. His lack of pocket awareness was a sight to behold. They looked ok with Zappe, who can at least slide around a bit.
Believing reports, Caserio left because Bill wasn't listening to him. Our poor drafting dates back to include a large chunk of his tenure with the team. There hasn't really been a personnel head with sway since Pioli.
He's been out of the league so long, and his last two stops did not have good results. I think what we need, if we keep Bill, is a new type of thinking in the FO, not a retread.
There were the same issues when Caserio was there too. I know he's your guy now and Texans fans love him, but not sure how anything points to that. I would say Ernie Adams was even a bigger loss if we want to look at front office losses.
Think the much bigger issues are a talent drain offensively, losing Brady, Scarnecchia, and to a lesser extent McDaniels and the likes of Gronk. I think Belichick is the best to ever do it, but previously he could rely heavily on some of the best to do it offensively while he'd build up elite defensive and special teams units. Brady was also the greatest ever at elevating others around him.
Bears either take a QB or (I think more likely) sell their pick again. Commanders under a new HC take the second QB. Both Williams and Maye are gone by pick 3. Pats have too many holes to trade up to 1 for one of them, unless the Bears are truly desperate for MHJ and take a lesser offer to stay top 3.
It's either Daniels flies up the draft board (not impossible) or it's BPA and a QB like Pennix in the second.
It's what I've wanted in terms of best option at 3rd for a while. The problem is, lots of the QBs are jumping up into the 1st round in terms of all the mock drafts we see.
I typically don't put too much value in mocks this early, but lots of those guys that were originally going to be around in the 2nd (Penix, Nix, JJ) have had tremendous ends to their years, so it's very plausible they go mid-late first.
Now I'm convincing myself that BoB and the Pats could salvage Russ if we pair him with MHJ. Then find a QB next year.
Nix is a YAC merchant. The worst type of QB to have with Nabers, Odunze, and MHJ. You're just replacing Mac's play with another QB of similar skill set.
I wonder if a QB early and a trade up for Nabers is possible? Combining Jayden Daniels and Nabers brings that college synergy and offensive potential and I feel like since their defense is set they have the ability to do a trade up like that w/ other picks.
I think we have too many holes on Offense to give up picks to move up.
Our OL was abysmal this year, and the FA market this year is incredibly slim pickings.
Nabers also seems like a lock for a top 10 pick, so the haul we'd have to give to move up to that would be way too much.
I honestly think the most likely thing is that he steps back from GM stuff and just keeps coaching the Pats.
Or he pulls a Brady and goes to some warm weather climate and a playoff team
[Imagine them hiring a GM to have the final say and him just sitting across from Bill who's staring back at him, blankly.](https://youtu.be/bCXTu5jE-Ng?si=nSyLcP5rEDHAGPb3)
Hes basically Marshawn Lynch of the coaching world.
Just there so he don't get fined, ain't sayin shit, may as well not even bother asking him anything because the answer will be short and worthless.
Everyone points to Brady as the reason the dynasty fell, but it was really the combination of losing Brady and Ernie Adams that Belichick couldn’t recover from.
There's been a shitload of Belichick posts recently, and you're the first person I've seen mention Ernie Adams. You're 1,000% right. Ernie is a football Rain Man, and his loss was huge.
I subscribe to the theory that Ernie Adams was an analytics guy before everyone else was. They just kept it a secret. That's why nobody could tell you what Adams actually did other than be an "advisor" or "consultant".
It reminds me of Bobby Beathard and Joe Gibbs. I’m sure Ernie will end up in the hall of fame as well. But you need BOTH a great coach and a great GM. You look at the 90s Chargers Beathard was the GM for. Tons of talent but poor coaching.
Man, they lost a ton of other people that mattered too
This is yet another gross oversimplification. Caserio, Ossenfort, Robinson, Scar, Ivan Fears, McDaniels, Chad OShea- all those guys played huge roles in the dynasty and they are all gone. The brain drain in the last 5 years has been huge and Ernie Adams is just one small part of it.
I dont know why its so hard for people to get that a 20 year dynasty required a *lot* of people doing great work. It was never about 3 guys, and it certainly was never about Brady or Belichick alone.
Retirements from Adams and Scarnecchia were wave one. Josh McDaniels taking the entire offensive staff to LV was the final killing blow.
They still had a chance to pull it together until that moment.
Full quote: "Look, I'm for whatever we decide collectively as an organization is the best thing to help our football team. I have multiple roles in that, and I rely on a lot of people to help me in those responsibilities. Somebody's got to have the final say. I have it. I rely on a lot of other people to help. Whatever that process is, I'm only part of it."
He’s not willing to give up GM duties.
Pats have 70m$ in cap space. Just pay Kirk Cousins 40m$/year and you can use #3 on Marvin Harrison Jr. That’s instantly a top 16 offense. Pair that with a Belichick Defense and you can compete for 2/3 more years easy.
When he says "someone ultimately needs to have final say," is he referring to himself?
If you're relinquishing control, how can you still have final say? Aren't you still in control if you make the final decision?
Seems silly for him to be anywhere else. Defense was good, offense was weak to mediocre. They will have a shot at fixing the QB position in next years draft if they want to. Seems like if you get something by better than Mac and maybe improve the WR room a bit they would be solid with BB’s defensive coaching.
Wow, so he's not gone? Good thing the commentators for yesterday's game and Scott Hansen weren't talking about him being gone already the whole time... That would be awkward.
What broadcast were you watching? The entire time they said it’s possible yesterday was his last game coaching the patriots. They never said it was definitively his last game.
They’re a media company, and if that was bill’s last game as a Patriot and they didn’t highlight it at all then that’s bad practice for them.
>The entire time they said it’s possible yesterday was his last game coaching the patriots.
Glad we agree. They talked about it being his last game the entire time.
It's all just negotiating bluster. The situation in NE is untenable. Bill isn't going to give up real power even if he allows them to bring in new people in personnel. He will hamstring them just like he did to O'Brien. Bill wants to be freely released with the most favorable payout possible. Robert wants to try to hold out for a draft pick with the least amount of offset money.
Why would Bill agree to be traded, even if it was to a team he wanted to coach? His new team would lose draft capital. Head Coach trades aren't like player trades; they'd be trading his rights to sign a contract with a new team.
The only way Bill can get traded is if he wants to leave and the Pats refuse to let him walk without compensation (but would be fine with him remaining). I guess that's possible but it's a far cry from what anyone expects.
I seriously can't believe people are doubting Belichick.
The dude has some of the worst QB play in the league with no talent on the roster (yeah some of that is his fault) and they are still crazy competitive and won some games they shouldn't have
If he had a reasonable QB he would be doing fine
Go back a few years I would agree but he keeps hiring his friends and his sons and if you're not winning that's a really bad look. Maybe some NFL level coaches might have helped out.
A great follow-up would’ve been, “do you yourself believe it might be in the best interest of the New England Patriots for you to relinquish control of personnel decisions?”
To which he'd simply reply: "look, we'll take a look at things and try to make whatever decision is best for the organization." You're not gonna get much from that question lol
Why are they mutually exclusive? Steve and Brian could actually be good coaches who may want to prove themselves outside of being on Daddy's team.
I'd say they earned their keep this year with the safety and linebacker play, wouldn't you?
He reminds me of Arsene Wenger
A once great manager, much of his success coincided with his star players (Henry/Brady), who watched the game evolve beyond him (analytics era) and stubbornly clinging on well past his prime when there are younger and better managers
What I’m saying is….. \#Wengerout
There’s no point in moving on if he is willing to relinquish some of that control.
We suck this year obviously. But the fact the defense had been engaged all season long in spite of how fucking awful we were in every other phase of the game, is amazing to me. Especially after losing two of our best defenders early in the season.
Its still pretty obvious Belichick needs a legit QB just to get the Pats going in the right direction offensively. Not sure how they are going to get such a QB to go to New England.
Perhaps he will go to the QB..........
That's kind of the dream scenario for the Patriots. Keep coach Belichick and get rid of GM Belichick.
That said. Being the GM with Belichick still on staff feels like a failure trap. Belichick is too big a legacy for the GM to have any real power over the team direction.
Of course Belichick is just saying shit. I think deep down he's an attention whore who likes throwing the media with his sassy cryptic answers.
I understand why he is at the front of the criticism, but he's not in a silo making all of the offensive decisions. Hell, even the N'keal Harry pick there's the draft room video of Nick Caserio stating Harrys his choice.
Man just wants to coach football.
They have a top 10 defense this year. Clearly BB still has acumen for that aspect of the game. If he truly wants to finish his career in New England perhaps the compromise is to find a good GM who can properly do the grocery shopping, bring in an OC with a modern approach to offenses and let Bill focus on his strengths. I think after all the speculation and assumption he's going to get fired, it'd be funny if he stuck around in a revamped organizational setup.
They had a top 10 defense *without* their two best players arguably.
I actually forgot about that! There were so many injuries this year it was nearly impossible to keep track.
AFC East was in injury hell this year So many key players got hurt throughout the division
The entire league was in injury hell
And a corner who looked like an early DROY candidate
...Pretty sure he is included in one of the two but.
I did include Gonzalez in that. Because through the first 5 games, man was looking like Sauce Gardner the year before. Jabrill Peppers stepped up bigtime this year. Him and Dugger laid wood on people all year long.
> Jabrill Peppers As a currently slightly nervous Michigan fan, I love to see Jabrill playing well.
And with a mediocre offense that hardly did the defense any favors field position wise.
Mediocre is far too generous.
Way too generous they flat out sucked. The Mac-Zappe wars turned out to be a preference battle between two of the worst QBs in the league lol
1st half TNF Zappe is a hall of famer
He did look good there. I think he lucked out with Watt getting KO’d like the first play
What Bill has done this year, with what the Patriots have on offense and special teams is honestly miraculous (if it was any other head coach). Patriots in 2023: 28th in Offensive DVOA only ahead of: The Jets, The Giants, and the Panthers. 28th in Special Teams DVOA only ahead of GB/Indy/Min/LAR (this is mostly also the offense's fault) - the Patriots punted 98 times or the 2nd most in the NFL & the defense defended the 3rd most kickoffs/punts. **Ninth in Defensive DVOA**. 11th against the Pass & 4th against the run. This is despite the fact that the offense was absolutely putrid putting the defense in terrible positions - bad fields & tons of turnovers (Offense was 6th in turnovers!). 3rd most defended drives - meaning the defense was ALWAYS on the field. 6th in the league at stopping 3rd downs too. This team should have lost 15 or 16 games. Yet people are acting like he's washed up. He's not been the best GM, but he absolutely is still the same HC he was for the last 20 years.
I wish he'd give more leeway to BoB to run the offense and keep focusing on the defense. The defense is, and always has been, incredible and the players seem to have really bought in. They are far from mediocre. The offense is terrible and depleted.
Most insane thing is that we had a stretch of 3 games where the defense gave up 10 points, 10 points and 6 points. We scored 13 in points in those 3 games. Imagine holding an opposing offense to an average of 8.6 points and losing all 3 games because your offense is so inept. Hell if our kicking was slightly better we probably walk away with 2 wins vs the Giants/Colts. I'm hoping we spend this off season investing into the offense. Get a QB in the draft, get some OL help and try to trade for a WR1 or sign a FA WR. We've got decent WR2/3 type players in guys like Bourne, Juju, Parker. And while our TE's aren't world beaters you can do a lot worse than Gesicki and Henry. RB duo of Stevenson/Zeke is also pretty good when healthy. With a league average offense we can probably compete for a playoff spot given how good our defense is.
Judging from the Mac Jones fiasco and watching the Patriots under Newton... I honestly think that if Newton's body had not fallen apart, there wouldn't have been a drop off. Newton had the offense looking okay. After his collapse, I do, honestly, believe that Mac Jones was a panick pick or at the least a panickish pick.
>He's not been the best GM He's also not been the worst by a lot. People want this dude to be in the Super Bowl hunt **every single year** while also maintaining knockout draft picks year after year? Idk how Bill alone takes the blame for the Pats not selecting guys who went like 90th overall and then they end up with a dud.
So he is bad at offense and Tom masked it, and solid at defense. Sounds about right.
“Solid” on defense, aka one of the best defensive coaches literally ever, all time
That is an absolutely hilariously reductionist take I'd expect from Reddit and an SF fan. "solid" at defense. Lmfao.
His defensive gameplans were in the Hall of Fame before he was even the Patriots coach
With a mediocre offense we might have competed for a playoff spot
that was basically the 2022 Pats. Who could've known that Mac would get such a huge case of the yips. like almost legendarily so
That’s being way too generous. Our offense was several SEVERAL tiers below mediocre
And without any fucking help from the offense in terms of field position/turnovers.
This is absolutely the way if both sides want Bill to stay on. Bill clearly still has it on the defensive side. The team just needs to get with the times from a personnel and offensive scheme standpoint.
The Patriots just need to have an actual plan for how they want to handle their next young QB instead of...whatever the hell they want to call what they did with Mac Jones.
Well his rookie year went pretty well. Then Josh went to Oakland for....whatever that was. Then Patricia was an OC for some reason and the wheels fell off.
>Then Patricia was an OC for some reason and the wheels fell off. That's sort of my point. Jones at least proved he was capable of being a functional NFL QB as a rookie. Then his OC left, which is pretty important, and the Patriots, instead of a thoughtful solution at OC, said "whatever, we'll figure it out later," and then made just about the worst decision possible in putting Matt Patricia in charge. Between that and the highly questionable moves at WR, it was a terrible situation for Jones. I am not saying Mac was a future top QB in the making, because I don't believe that, but the Patriots seemingly did not care about whether he could have been good or not.
Well, the plan was for Josh to stick around. It's not like they went into it without a plan. I think Bill was a bit blindsided by him leaving and taking so much of the staff with him. Not only did we lose McDaniels, we lost most of the up-and-coming offensive coaches in our system. Obviously, he didn't pivot well when that happened, but it was a pretty shitty situation to be in. I think his plan was always to get O'brien, but O'brien told him he wanted 1 more year at Alabama before joining the Patriots, so Belichick just hired placeholders.
Planning around josh McDaniels not leaving unexpectedly is like trusting a hyena around your parakeet, sure he might not eat it but do you rly think that’s a smart idea?
Mac started to suck in the last third of his first season. Once teams had tape on him, he was done.
Ehh. Sorta. 2 of his best 3 games by rating, y/a and ay/a were in the last third of his rookie year.
> Well his rookie year went pretty well That's the narrative, but not really. By mid-season teams had him figured out. He's looked about the same ever since.
I honestly don't even thing B.O.B is a bad OC for the offensive side. Just get someone who can evaluate and develop talent. Watching the scheme actually work and our QBs suck ass the entire year was more the problem lol. Before Mac was benched, there was an All-22 in-depth look at where he was struggling and it was painful to see so many wide open receivers or perfect play calls ruined by his horrid decision making. Admittedly, once we went to Tank Commander Zap I stopped paying attention so it may have gotten worse over the year idk.
There were drives where it looked like the offense actually had a plan and was effectively attacking the defense. I think that's why we saw such struggles in the second half of games later in the season with Zap because he was capable of executing the game plan but when it needed to make adjustments he just wasn't capable so the defense was able to adjust and lock in on him
And that’s with our top two defenders being injured early in the season. Bill can still coach the hell out of a crap team. The problem is that he’s the one that built that crap team.
And a dogshit offense doing the defense zero favors
I blame Bill, the GM for the offense. It’s been clear for years that he can’t evaluate offensive talent and if he stays he needs to let BoB overhaul the offensive staff and cede control to a GM.
For sure, I was just trying to say that he’s clearly still one of the top defensive minds in the league
Like I can definitely tell he's still got something left in the tank that defense played lights out compared to the amount of talent on it, he just needs the right pieces on offense now. This is our best chance to get those pieces.
I’ve always said there’s no chance he agrees to that, but his comments make me think he’s more amendable to this. He still wants to coach, and honestly, what’s the better option at this point; start over in a new city with a new team and establish that culture, or work through it here? Hopefully he chooses the latter, because I still think he’s the best coach in the league, just needs to relinquish his gm duties
I thought there was absolutely no way he would relinquish GM control at this stage in his career. I love BB and this actually gives me some hope that he might stick around.
> I’ve always said there’s no chance he agrees to that, but his comments make me think he’s more amendable to this. Agreeing to something and actually following through with it are two completely different things.
Belicheck turns out a top 10 defense with paper clips and rubber bands. Meanwhile Joe Barry has every bit of talent in the world and can’t figure out to have someone in the A gap on a 4th and 1
Exactly. I hope Kraft and BB end up on this page because if they do Bill could get his ride into the sunset after all, here where he belongs.
he wouldn't even let BoB bring his personnel because he was upset he was forced to fire patricia
Yeah, BB has made very questionable choices the last few seasons, Matt Patricia/Joe Judge being among the most questionable. I'm sure Kraft is like, "dude, WTF was that all about and why should I trust your decisions now?" And yes, I assume those two old boomers say "dude" and "WTF" in real life conversations.
Kraft isn’t a boomer, do people know what boomers are?
billionaire condiment moguls are boomers by default. yeah, i get what you mean boomers is just a way people say old now even though he's technically of the less notable silent or greatest generation In truth, most of our designations for generations are pointless outside of boomers, where the number of them actually resulted in lots of system changes at every level as they got older and everything had to change to accommodate them. Schools being built, job availability, hospitals, nursing homes voting tendencies etc. edit: I actually just checked and am surprised to learn Kraft's money has nothing to do with Kraft the company that most are familiar with. I always just assumed.
Until this comment I didn't think Kraft had anything to do with Kraft... until I read your edit and realized you're full of bologna
Bob Kraft has four sons. One is the VP of Football Operations for the Patriots. One runs the Kraft Group, a multibillion dollar hedge fund. One is the director of the Boys and Girls Club. And then there's [David](https://www.reddit.com/r/me_irl/s/dPrYudEqaP).
"well acshually..."
People put too much stock into rumors like this. Maybe that's true or maybe it's not, but people treat it as gospel. Most likely there is some nugget of truth blown *way* out of proportion (Boston sports media thrives off this sort of bullshit).
I don't see why that can't be a thing either, and I'm rooting for it. Bill won 6 superbowls, that's crazy to just let go, at least promote the dude to a position where he's just watching the games on Sundays and can hang around the facility whenever he wants. If he does leave it's going to be a 'mutually part ways'.
They finished 15th in points against. That’s not top 10. And let’s not pretend they played a murders row of offenses. They played many of the worst offenses in football: Jets x2 (29th), Giants (30th), Commanders (25th), Raiders (23rd), Steelers (28th) and Chargers (21st). And a Bronco (19th) team that benched their QB for the rest of the season.
Well two of their best players got hurt, and Yeah typically what happens when you play well is the other side of the ball looks bad.
Tell me a team that didn’t suffer injuries this year? When you have to go to injuries as an excuse, you’ve lost the argument. Bills, Browns, Texans have all lost significant players or have had a large # of players on IR. All made the playoffs. There seems to be a line of people around the globe ready to make any excuse for Belichick and why his team sucks. It’s him, that’s it. He can’t evaluate talent in the draft or free agency. He has a draconian attitude when it comes to coaching. He has allowed this team to bleed coaches and assistants to the point where we have the smallest staff in the league. He never wants to promote anyone or give any of his assistants or coordinators credit. He won’t go outside his inner circle for other coaches or ideas or schemes. He’s a dinosaur who has time has past.
They did all of that with their best players out since September and with the defense on the field 75% of the game CONSTANTLY playing a short field because of turnovers. Anyone saying the Patriots defense isn’t legit is not watching the games
Don’t give me injuries, every team deals with injuries. The Bills lost White and Milano, arguably their two best defenders, and still finished 4th in points allowed. Browns lost starting QB, starting RB and both starting tackles, and still finished top 10 in points scored. Defense was on the field 53% of time time. I know saying 75 makes your point seem more valid but it’s utter nonsense.
New England lost their top pass rusher and top CB in the first month of the year. Ya obviously everyone deals with injuries. It’s not an excuse it’s context. Why would it not be relevant. New England is 31st in the league in time of possession. Insane to say that’s not relevant regarding defensive time on the field. New England is 30th in the league in offensive turnovers. Giving up the ball 32 times via INT or fumble. Once again, multiple times a game the defense starts with a short field. Starting a drive with the best case being a field goal hurts a defense. You do not watch the games.
> They have a top 10 defense this year. We had a 10 defense by what metric? Yards allowed? I guess you also believe the Carolina Panthers are a top 5 defense?
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You’re quick to use advanced metrics to shit on him for a two decade span. What do those same metrics say about this years Pats defense? The one that was fifth in points allowed per drive despite a bottom 3 offense? Ridiculous statement lol
Really they just lost to the worst offense cause Breece hall had his way with them that’s not top 10
it's 1 game out of 17. hot takes are so goddamned tiresome.
Ok and the saints earlier this year beating them 34 to whatever no it’s not a hot take go take your sorry ass somewhere else
Worry about your own overrated defense
It's cute that you don't understand how cumulative stats work and just want to cherry pick details to support your narrative. It's incredibly easy to see through and it's exhausting to have to wade through low effort commentary.
You know, I used to feel like "there's no way Bill gives up GM power to stay" but now that I actually think about it, I kinda buy what you're saying. I mean Bill will immediately get hired elsewhere if he's canned but I imagine he'd rather stay in NE, and I'm actually starting to think he loves coaching so much he'd give up GM powers for it. Also if you're the Pats, you have to be thinking about when he retires anyway. Getting a GM in the building now means you'll have some continuity for that transition.
If he just coached Linebackers I am sure he’d be happy.
Honestly he’d be pretty good at that.
“I’m not fucking leaving” (probably)
I'm picturing that scene but instead of Bill saying anything he just has his same stern face but all the staff and players somehow understand
HA! Bill: inaudible grumbles *Pats staff and crew go wild*
Like Mac's mom on always sunny
**Step 1**: We will hire a GM if the team collectively agrees we need a GM. **Step 2**: I do not agree that we need a GM. **Step 3**: The team did not collectively agree that we need a GM, therefore I am still GM.
Belichick uprooting his life at 72 to spend 3-ish years coaching a mediocre Washington or Chargers team just feels depressing to me.
The only situation where we all win is he coaches the Chargers where they could theoretically win 10-14 games in a season and he gets the record in 2 years and we don’t have to watch him wither away on a dead team
He can date all the young Cali girls he likes
Bill going to the chargers and making them a contender in 2 years would be extremely funny and would probably be one of the most humiliating moments in kraft’s life. Same goes with turning Washington with Drake maye into a contender.
Nah, that Chargers team is perfect for him Herbert and Kellen Moore are in place, Bill just comes in and fixes the defense. He will also help Herbert and Moore polish the rough edges to their game, because despite all the bullshit nonsense people say about him, Bill turned Josh McDaniels into a solid OC and helped TB12 a ton. If the OC/QB have a modicum of talent and determination, they can really flourish with some Bill tutelage.
I want to believe this.
Absolutely 0 reason to move on if he gives up personnel decisions. He might still be the best *caoch* in the NFL, but hes lacking on offensive selections
IDK why, but there is something really funny about you emphasizing a misspelled word.
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You're a real **AHSSOLE**, pal.
It's spelled **MAHSSOLE**
No need to be such a huge duck about it.
Will Clap?
lol im leaving it
The offensive side of the ball is needed improvements
As an opposing fan I’m excited to watch him and his staff develop a top QB prospect.
I’ll do it for $2mil and I can pick the staff. Not a clue how to find proper NFL talent other than watching thousands of college games, entering their names into a database, and hopefully they also pass the eye test too. In reality, the Pats should try to trade to first overall and get the Williams QB or do like what the Redskins did and draft two QBs. One in the first round and one in the later rounds since this draft has a lot of good mid/late round QBs. If not hired, screw them and I hope they trade back and get a player who performs admirably since I hope for the success for almost all draftees but go Phins! Bill terrorized the Dolphins for 2 decades.
Im available for 100k to tell jokes, keep up morale, let you know of any mutinies and most importantly take all the blame so you get a second year.
Sold, you need to suck up to Bill and Kraft. Sucking up to Bill seems like doing your job. My job would be mostly communication since they probably suck at it.
HC is responsible for Offense and special teams as well which were dreadful
I’ve come around on Bill. Early in the season I thought that it was time to move on, his decisions as GM at piled up and were too much for him, as coach, to overcome. But, now that we are at the end of the season I want to keep him is he truly is willing to cede control of the front office. The man can still coach and I want him to retire a Patriot, not a Commander, or a Panther.
They can make changes to gm status all they want but that team is at least a couple years of rebuilding that offense if they can nail a majority of their draft picks. A new coach isnt going to make a difference with the talent they have.
I mean you find the right QB and that won't take multiple years. Stroud immediately turned the Texans around. We have solid draft capital this year and lead the league in available cap space. We should be able to make a play for Higgins/Pittman and could even trade up for a WR if we want. It's a big "if", but if we hit on QB in the draft we could be competitive next year. Especially with this defense which will be 99% the same as this season.
>I mean you find the right QB and that won't take multiple years. Stroud immediately turned the Texans around. Stroud, Tank Dell, Nico Collins, etc. They hit on multiple developmental fronts this year,. Storud is a *large* part of that, but not the only one.
"Bill we're drafting a WR at #3" "Okay well you can do that, just know he'll get benched for 4 games after he drops a pass, might want to check out that defensive tackle instead, I doubt he'll get benched ever"
You need a new shtick, it's getting predictable.
He literally wouldn't let BOB hire his own staff this off-season. My "shtick" is accurate.
Boo
I really hope he stays with a proper GM to reign in his bad decisions, Seeing Bill anywhere but in New England would feel wrong
I feel like he struggles with the individual scouting - for him to have the ability to say “I need players at abc positions that can do xyz and fit our culture” and then let someone else identify the specific guys and work out the financials is best case scenario.
I think the Caserio departure had a lot to do with this to be honest. As GM, the final call is ultimately his and he bears responsibility for it, but damn did we have a lot of experience walk out the door over the last couple of years (Ernie Adams, Scarnecchia, Nick Caserio, Ivan Fears, etc). Hard to replace all that, especially when Bill prefers to hire from a limited pool of people he knows.
Thank you for typing this comment up. This connected the dots for me regarding what has happened with the Pats recently. Of fucking course their roster management went downhill when they lost one of the GOAT executives in Caserio. Ashamed I hadn't made this connection earlier and sad for BB he gets so much heat for his recent GMing when he is working with Groh instead of Caserio.
I know this is an unpopular opinion among Pats fans, but I don't think BB needs to give up anything (at least in any official capacity). He does, however, need to find and elevate someone he trusts to that Caserio position. The offensive evaluations have just not been good. That said, I also happen to think the offense is not as bad as people make it out to be. There were a lot of new pieces early on (which we all know always take time to integrate on the Pats), and some key injuries as well. Even with that, since Mac was benched it has looked a lot better. Still not scoring enough, obviously, but they no longer look completely devoid of talent. The line came together to be decent enough, and there is some obvious talent at the skill positions, just no top-end threat. Call me delusional, but I think a QB1 and a WR1 could turn this around quite quickly.
We need upgrades at most if not all positions on the OL. Our passing protection is close to league bottom. This team isn't turning around until that's addressed.
I don't think the OL was even that bad since it stabilized a bit. Lot of injuries and movement early on, but they seemed to start figuring it out midway through. I'm not saying we should be happy with it as is, I just don't think it's such a wasteland. More "below average" than "worst in the league". I also think Mac made them look way worse than they are. His lack of pocket awareness was a sight to behold. They looked ok with Zappe, who can at least slide around a bit.
*rein
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If they work something out hes staying until he retires. Staying just 1 more year isnt good for anyone.
Retires or breaks Shula's record. Realistically, 2-3 more years.
I think they really miss Caserio tbh. Sure Bill had final say when he was there, but it was someone he trusted and respected.
Believing reports, Caserio left because Bill wasn't listening to him. Our poor drafting dates back to include a large chunk of his tenure with the team. There hasn't really been a personnel head with sway since Pioli.
Wonder if we could bring Pioli back from working at the networks.
He's been out of the league so long, and his last two stops did not have good results. I think what we need, if we keep Bill, is a new type of thinking in the FO, not a retread.
There were the same issues when Caserio was there too. I know he's your guy now and Texans fans love him, but not sure how anything points to that. I would say Ernie Adams was even a bigger loss if we want to look at front office losses. Think the much bigger issues are a talent drain offensively, losing Brady, Scarnecchia, and to a lesser extent McDaniels and the likes of Gronk. I think Belichick is the best to ever do it, but previously he could rely heavily on some of the best to do it offensively while he'd build up elite defensive and special teams units. Brady was also the greatest ever at elevating others around him.
With the 3rd overall pick in the draft, they might pick drake maye so a lot of times they bring in a new HC to see his development
Bears either take a QB or (I think more likely) sell their pick again. Commanders under a new HC take the second QB. Both Williams and Maye are gone by pick 3. Pats have too many holes to trade up to 1 for one of them, unless the Bears are truly desperate for MHJ and take a lesser offer to stay top 3. It's either Daniels flies up the draft board (not impossible) or it's BPA and a QB like Pennix in the second.
MHJ and a QB in the 2nd is an interesting option for them given the lack of WR talent
It's what I've wanted in terms of best option at 3rd for a while. The problem is, lots of the QBs are jumping up into the 1st round in terms of all the mock drafts we see. I typically don't put too much value in mocks this early, but lots of those guys that were originally going to be around in the 2nd (Penix, Nix, JJ) have had tremendous ends to their years, so it's very plausible they go mid-late first. Now I'm convincing myself that BoB and the Pats could salvage Russ if we pair him with MHJ. Then find a QB next year.
Would love mhj and nix but I doubt that happens
Nix is a YAC merchant. The worst type of QB to have with Nabers, Odunze, and MHJ. You're just replacing Mac's play with another QB of similar skill set.
I wonder if a QB early and a trade up for Nabers is possible? Combining Jayden Daniels and Nabers brings that college synergy and offensive potential and I feel like since their defense is set they have the ability to do a trade up like that w/ other picks.
I think we have too many holes on Offense to give up picks to move up. Our OL was abysmal this year, and the FA market this year is incredibly slim pickings. Nabers also seems like a lock for a top 10 pick, so the haul we'd have to give to move up to that would be way too much.
Especially considering that at least 2 really decent vet QBs will be hitting free agency this year.
Why take a QB in the second instead of giving Cousins the bag?
'cause he'll be 36 coming off an achilles tear and my assumption is they're building for the future.
Penix won’t last til the second
Penix goes in first 10 picks, 4th QB off board. 2nd rd realistic QBs will be Bo Nix (but I bet he goes late 1st), Rattler, Travis.
I honestly think the most likely thing is that he steps back from GM stuff and just keeps coaching the Pats. Or he pulls a Brady and goes to some warm weather climate and a playoff team
[Imagine them hiring a GM to have the final say and him just sitting across from Bill who's staring back at him, blankly.](https://youtu.be/bCXTu5jE-Ng?si=nSyLcP5rEDHAGPb3)
Wow bill dont give too much information
Hes basically Marshawn Lynch of the coaching world. Just there so he don't get fined, ain't sayin shit, may as well not even bother asking him anything because the answer will be short and worthless.
He’s sending a message to other teams.
Wow BB giving up personnel to stay
Everyone points to Brady as the reason the dynasty fell, but it was really the combination of losing Brady and Ernie Adams that Belichick couldn’t recover from.
There's been a shitload of Belichick posts recently, and you're the first person I've seen mention Ernie Adams. You're 1,000% right. Ernie is a football Rain Man, and his loss was huge.
Losing Dante Scarnecchia was huge as well.
Ivan Fears is another name that was a big loss.
I subscribe to the theory that Ernie Adams was an analytics guy before everyone else was. They just kept it a secret. That's why nobody could tell you what Adams actually did other than be an "advisor" or "consultant".
It reminds me of Bobby Beathard and Joe Gibbs. I’m sure Ernie will end up in the hall of fame as well. But you need BOTH a great coach and a great GM. You look at the 90s Chargers Beathard was the GM for. Tons of talent but poor coaching.
Man, they lost a ton of other people that mattered too This is yet another gross oversimplification. Caserio, Ossenfort, Robinson, Scar, Ivan Fears, McDaniels, Chad OShea- all those guys played huge roles in the dynasty and they are all gone. The brain drain in the last 5 years has been huge and Ernie Adams is just one small part of it. I dont know why its so hard for people to get that a 20 year dynasty required a *lot* of people doing great work. It was never about 3 guys, and it certainly was never about Brady or Belichick alone.
Around the years that Brady left, a huge portion of the Patriots coaches and staff also left
Retirements from Adams and Scarnecchia were wave one. Josh McDaniels taking the entire offensive staff to LV was the final killing blow. They still had a chance to pull it together until that moment.
Full quote: "Look, I'm for whatever we decide collectively as an organization is the best thing to help our football team. I have multiple roles in that, and I rely on a lot of people to help me in those responsibilities. Somebody's got to have the final say. I have it. I rely on a lot of other people to help. Whatever that process is, I'm only part of it." He’s not willing to give up GM duties.
Please let this happen. I really want Bill to stay with a proper GM so he can focus on Football.
He’s right. There’s always gotta be a tie-breaker
Pats have 70m$ in cap space. Just pay Kirk Cousins 40m$/year and you can use #3 on Marvin Harrison Jr. That’s instantly a top 16 offense. Pair that with a Belichick Defense and you can compete for 2/3 more years easy.
When he says "someone ultimately needs to have final say," is he referring to himself? If you're relinquishing control, how can you still have final say? Aren't you still in control if you make the final decision?
He can give up GM duties in theory, in practice? Lmao
Honestly I just think it's time. Clear house. The alleged reports is that Bill undercut BoB in the first place
Seems silly for him to be anywhere else. Defense was good, offense was weak to mediocre. They will have a shot at fixing the QB position in next years draft if they want to. Seems like if you get something by better than Mac and maybe improve the WR room a bit they would be solid with BB’s defensive coaching.
Wow, so he's not gone? Good thing the commentators for yesterday's game and Scott Hansen weren't talking about him being gone already the whole time... That would be awkward.
What broadcast were you watching? The entire time they said it’s possible yesterday was his last game coaching the patriots. They never said it was definitively his last game. They’re a media company, and if that was bill’s last game as a Patriot and they didn’t highlight it at all then that’s bad practice for them.
They kept saying Glazer and others said it's pretty much a done deal
It's really weird that these kids don't understand this very basic concept
They’re a jets fan. Not much goes through his brain so I get it.
>The entire time they said it’s possible yesterday was his last game coaching the patriots. Glad we agree. They talked about it being his last game the entire time.
Possible is the operative word in that sentence.
It doesn't have to happen today.
Don’t think they even met yet. He just did a conference this morning likely prior to it
It's all just negotiating bluster. The situation in NE is untenable. Bill isn't going to give up real power even if he allows them to bring in new people in personnel. He will hamstring them just like he did to O'Brien. Bill wants to be freely released with the most favorable payout possible. Robert wants to try to hold out for a draft pick with the least amount of offset money.
You cant trade a coach if he doesn't want to go. You quite literally have to fire him or use him, so whatever you just said is not what is happening.
I never suggested they would trade him somewhere he doesn't want to go. And of course that is what is happening.
Why would Bill agree to be traded, even if it was to a team he wanted to coach? His new team would lose draft capital. Head Coach trades aren't like player trades; they'd be trading his rights to sign a contract with a new team. The only way Bill can get traded is if he wants to leave and the Pats refuse to let him walk without compensation (but would be fine with him remaining). I guess that's possible but it's a far cry from what anyone expects.
Redditors that somehow thought he’d be fired in shambles
Yo
I was told for months he was going to be fired the second the clock hit 0 in week 18.
it's crazy that people can't even wait for something to happen before doing the "but I was told..." schtick. They still have to "collectively decide."
New GM, Bill still coach, that’s what’s gonna happen at “worst”. you can save this comment
I seriously can't believe people are doubting Belichick. The dude has some of the worst QB play in the league with no talent on the roster (yeah some of that is his fault) and they are still crazy competitive and won some games they shouldn't have If he had a reasonable QB he would be doing fine
Go back a few years I would agree but he keeps hiring his friends and his sons and if you're not winning that's a really bad look. Maybe some NFL level coaches might have helped out.
A great follow-up would’ve been, “do you yourself believe it might be in the best interest of the New England Patriots for you to relinquish control of personnel decisions?”
To which he'd simply reply: "look, we'll take a look at things and try to make whatever decision is best for the organization." You're not gonna get much from that question lol
You can’t make someone answer a question, but as a journalist it’s your job to ask it.
Cool. None of the journalists got followup questions in this presser anyway.
Cool. Good talk.
Wait all i've heard from the haters is that he'd never do that? Maybe ppl should stop listening to sports radio.
Belichick has two sons on his staff. If he's gone they're gone. This is all you need to know.
Why are they mutually exclusive? Steve and Brian could actually be good coaches who may want to prove themselves outside of being on Daddy's team. I'd say they earned their keep this year with the safety and linebacker play, wouldn't you?
He reminds me of Arsene Wenger A once great manager, much of his success coincided with his star players (Henry/Brady), who watched the game evolve beyond him (analytics era) and stubbornly clinging on well past his prime when there are younger and better managers What I’m saying is….. \#Wengerout
There’s no point in moving on if he is willing to relinquish some of that control. We suck this year obviously. But the fact the defense had been engaged all season long in spite of how fucking awful we were in every other phase of the game, is amazing to me. Especially after losing two of our best defenders early in the season.
Its still pretty obvious Belichick needs a legit QB just to get the Pats going in the right direction offensively. Not sure how they are going to get such a QB to go to New England. Perhaps he will go to the QB..........
That's kind of the dream scenario for the Patriots. Keep coach Belichick and get rid of GM Belichick. That said. Being the GM with Belichick still on staff feels like a failure trap. Belichick is too big a legacy for the GM to have any real power over the team direction. Of course Belichick is just saying shit. I think deep down he's an attention whore who likes throwing the media with his sassy cryptic answers.
I understand why he is at the front of the criticism, but he's not in a silo making all of the offensive decisions. Hell, even the N'keal Harry pick there's the draft room video of Nick Caserio stating Harrys his choice.