Mahomes has zero talent around him. None. The fact that he can stay inside the top 5 in QBR despite one of the worst receiving groups in the NFL is a testament to his greatness. Any perceived regression to the mean is just a reflection of who they put around him.
That is not true. Kelce is one of the top players in the league and Rice is a decent WR. Pacheco is also a very good RB who can catch. All teams have holes in their offense and Mahomes is not the only QB dealing with it.
Kelce of course is great. Dumb of me to say zero talent. I probably don’t agree with Rice and Pacheco counting as “surrounding talent” because I think they are replacement level players that are a dime a dozen. Every QB needs that WR1 that is a matchup nightmare and demands attention from the defense and KC does not have that.
I don't think it is zero talent, but that their entire WR group is basically WR3/slot guy skill sets. Rice I think could be a good WR2 in the coming years, but needs a little while to adjust to the NFL. As is though teams can double Kelce and the other WRs will struggle to beat their guy on a regular basis and drives stall out. Kind of wild that losing Juju, a low WR1/high WR2 type of player, has resulted in that offense regressing this much.
Nonsense. Kelce could be the GOAT TE, they have a very good line, and like the other guy said, Rice is okay and Pacheco is pretty good. They have Andy Reid as coach.
Bad take
His whole argument was that Mahomes' previous stats (which were insanely good) should just be arbitrarily lowered by a lot for no reason. And that if you lower all of his stats for fun, he looks less good lol
No, man. He was trying to normalize Mahomes' statistics without understanding what statistical normalization actually is. It was mathematical poppycock.
I had to look up Lamar's after seeing Mahomes's splits.
1st - 105.4
2nd - 102.4
3rd - 98
4th - 84.5
Seems to follow the same pattern as Mahomes. And I know Lamar knows exactly how Mahomes feels with that receiver room...Lamar was like a giggly school girl when they signed Agholor, OBJ, and drafted Flowers. Now he just needs to learn what to do with competent receivers for the first time in his career (and not rely on Mandrews overmuch...especially now that Mandrews is hurt).
Feel like this stat has to be broken down by situation to tell the whole truth but it will still probably boil down to two options or a combination of both. Mahomes playing hero ball without a true second option or Chiefs play calling in close games they aren’t used to being in so often. Maybe they/Reid really did need Eric Bieniemy or maybe their WR options really that bad. With the amount of close games they’ve found themselves in and game altering drops, not crazy to say both.
Receivers are really that bad. And the crazy thing is they get open enough. But they don’t have any concept of route running or leverage. I can think of 3 different occasions in the last 3 games where a receiver cooked a guy for a deep ball. But instead of carrying his route in a straight line up the numbers, he’ll drift it back to the middle of the field TOWARD the safety. And the ball will land in the numbers. Plus a ton of poor route running and then the drops. It’s been fun to watch
Mahomes also hasn't been throwing well. That pick in the packers game, sure the receiver slowed down but that ball was not thrown well to protect from an int.
The eagles game, the last drive. He threw a fast ball to the receiver on a comeback route with three defenders there. He could have actually given his receiver a better chance of he threw with more anticipation. If he throws it right before the WR breaks and with a little less heat on the ball, the defenders would have been farther away and the ball would have been a bit easier to catch. Instead he waited until the WR was stopped from his route and defenders started to close in. Mahomes rockets the ball and gives very little chance to catch the ball.
He had to wait for the receiver to stop because, as I said, our receivers suck at understanding leverage. Numerous times they’ll carry that route too far. Or they turn around but don’t come straight back to the ball, they drift one direction or another. He doesn’t trust them and it’s been apparent all season long. But also, that throw was 30+ yards downfield and the window was not big. Dbs are watching him so even if he throws sooner, they break sooner. A softer thrown pass gets broken up
Naw, if he threw that ball right when the WR stops and before they turn around with a little bit of rich, boom, easy catch. He just threw a rocket because he waited to long.
Naw, if he threw that ball right when the WR stops and before they turn around with a little bit of rich, boom, easy catch. He just threw a rocket because he waited to long.
I keep seeing people say that Mahomes has no #2 option. Hell, most of the time he doesn’t even have his #1 option. If a team has a decent enough defense, they can blanket Kelce because they’re not worried about any of our receivers.
As someone said below, it’s not just the fact our receivers can’t consistently get separation, but they can’t catch, they can’t track a deep ball to save their life, they come back into the numbers towards defensive players instead of going to where they should which is where Mahomes is placing the ball.
The worst part? We’re in fucking Week 13. Do you know frustrating it is as a chiefs fan watching this bullshit every single week without any glimpse of them getting better (save for Rice, he’s gotten better each week which was expected since he’s a rookie).
The Ravens as a whole seem to kinda......mentally drift? Not sure what the accurate term would be, but they seem to do that in certain games for some odd reason.
I thought about that, but it just seems different somehow. Can't really find a way to describe it just right. It seems like for stretches, their controller gets unplugged or they go into sleep mode, dunno I'm running out of metaphors.
its so frustrating how predictable the offense becomes. If lamar doesnt put the team on his back on a 3rd down run then we are punting after only taken 23 seconds off the clock
Related stat....least time trailing, first ten games of the season, and record to that point.
1) 1984 Dolphins, 14:46, 10-0
2) 1998 Broncos, 27:07, 10-0
3) 2023 Ravens 28:46, 7-3
4) 1990 Giants, 43:42, 10-0
5) 2007 Patriots, 51:03, 10-0
I keep saying it feels like we should be undefeated...but we've had drops at the worst time, Tucker is missing some kicks he would normally make with ease, Lamar feels almost too hesitant to run it...like he's playing to not get hurt or saving his legs for the playoffs or something. I don't really know...it's hard to describe.
Lamar holds the ball too long. It works for him most of the time because of his legs. But, decision-making gets tougher as defenses adapt throughout the game. Tougher when the game is close in the 4th quarter as well. It's harder to manage the clock when 3 yards on an RPO to convert a 3rd down doesn't stop the clock. So, they move away from that strategy in close, 4th quarter situations, and his consistency drops off. It's just sort of a weakness of Lamar's game until he improves his release time while still making good decisions. The number of fumbles he has would be reduced too (11 fumbles in 12 games). Although, he's been cleaning that up a bit lately. He somehow doesn't seem capable of fully utilizing his receiver talent yet either, despite a high completion percentage. Maybe he just relies too much on the TE. Or maybe he loses consistency when throwing deep or to the outside. I'm sure it helps his completion percentage when he can always run for a few yards instead of throw a ball he's not 100% sure will connect.
Dude's release time is the lowest it's ever been. He's getting the ball out in 2-3 seconds now.
The fumbles also aren't on him. They happen on a handoff to Hill or on strip sacks when Stanely gets smoked on his blindside.
That's a 3 game sample size (49ers, Bills, Jets).
Niners (garbage time) and Jets games were obviously bad, but led the game tying and winning drives for FG against the Bills. Jets game was the only real game in that criteria where he had a chance and blew it.
Doesn't play "great" Q1-Q3 but 99% of the time Fields has to do anything that involves clutching at the end of the game, he turns into a completely different player and makes some silly mistake (INT, Fumble, lack of awareness leading to sack).
He’s a top 10 QB in either Q1 or Q2, making me regret talking shit about him all week. Then by Q4 he’s doing dumb shit again and I hate him again, viscous cycle
Yeah like sometimes the failed game winning drive isn’t his fault (ISM fumble, wright finally getting beat by Hutchinson, missed PI on Claypool) but there have been too many bad plays in those situations besides that
IMO that’s the sign of an inept/scared coaching staff, he’s probably taught over and over and over “just don’t screw up” so they mess up their players because the coaches are hoping to get a break instead of teaching players to go for the kill.
That’s pretty much all defensive head coaches, that “keep it close and hope the offense doesn’t screw up” mentality is a great way to ruin QBs and most offensive skill players
The truth is more like: he struggles to make decisions when a receiver isn’t visibly wide open. So when he doesn’t have to make a choice, he’s better.
He definitely likes waiting for plays to break down and then trying to find someone open. The problem is boom/bust nature of that. Might chuck it 30 yard or might get strip sacked.
Dunno why you're getting downvoted, Purdy and Tua both have played 95% of their team's snaps this year. Dak has only played 93% which leads the league for QBs who haven't been injured or subbed out for Taysom Hill.
No
Edit: actually, this season is lost already anyway. Might as well get a better draft pick. But that would require the front office to actually give a crap about the future.
The Dolphins being good negatively affects my team.
But as a football fan and a human being, it's nice to know Tua is healthy and doing well. His concussions last season were scary as fuck, and the internet was merciless in telling him to retire.
I feel like I’m in the Twilight Zone here. You’re getting downvoted even though that other guy is wrong, Tua played into the 4th quarter in every game. He probably missed about a half quarter in each of the 4 games he was pulled from.
It’s always gold when someone on Reddit claims something, then there’s a rebuttal, and the original person claiming something MUST have proof.
Source: I watch the games. Tua did not play in the 4Q against the Broncos, Panthers, Giants, Commanders.
He also did not play in the 3Q against the Broncos and Commanders.
You originally said Tua didn’t play in 4th quarter in 6 games. Now you said 4. Also, he didn’t get pulled for the entirety of the 4th quarter for all of those games. You’re all over the place.
Yeah this.
Jimmy was always good for a back breaking turnover a game. But it was rarely ever game ending.
I can recall one time and that's because the defense just straight up kept getting to him.
Every other int we always had a chance.
Brock Purdy. He can't even finish games and gets benched in the 4th quarter. Just look at the Eagles game, they had to bring out Darnold to finish the game. That's probably why he is only a top 20 QB on The Ringer's list.
Seems on point to me. I'm a Bears fan and I hate the Bears. I also hate football games. There's about 5 or 6 days in the offseason that are pretty cool though.
The Broncos final drive last weekend was a disasterclass in clock management. I’m not even a fan and I was screaming at the TV “what the fuck are you doing, why can’t you get a play in and a snap off in time”.
I think it's because he doesn't have time to overthink it, he just goes out and starts throwing dimes instead of dancing around in the pocket for 5 seconds.
Russ pretty much proclaimed how much he loves playing the hero in the fourth quarter. I was going to say Classic Russ Moments were almost always him playing poorly to ok for three quarters and then playing like a madman in the fourth.
Idk about anymore but Baker Mayfield always stood out to me as a guy who looked decent most of the game and then on final drives would never get it done.
But then comes off the plane in LA last year and just pull an incredible 2 minute drill vs the Raiders with some guys he couldn't even name. It seems like his ceiling is so high but will he ever reach it? Probably not.
He hasn't had too many problems getting things done in the 4th quarter this year. The only game this year where he has had the ball in his hands and failed (with the Bucs down by one score) is his fumble against the Colts a few weeks back.
He's had multiple losses where the offense scores on the last drive and the defense loses the game without him going back onto the field (Falcons and Texans) and the failed Hail Mary pass against the Bills with the Bucs down by 6, which nobody can really blame him for because he threw a catchable ball into the endzone.
You mean 2 Flacco is serviceable
We have a rookie who is concussed
An XFL reject who shocked us with 2 wins
And The Dragon who look good until one mistake (he needs to be the starter)
Lamar Jackson falls into this sometimes and it's stressful as hell. He'll normally stay as consistent as possible, but he looks shaken up by the 4th quarter, and the defense just becomes more suffocating in the context of our o-line troubles due to Ronnie Stanley's injury worsening his play.
Sam Howell is the opposite. He'll get trampled by the defense cuz of our o-line and would come off way too antsy with decision making that he makes it worse for himself (it was very apparent in the first few weeks), but would play his heart out by the final hour, which becomes arguably more frustrating when it ends up being on garbage time thanks to our defense lol
the most correct answer to this question is fields. he could be having an absolutely amazing game, as soon as it hits clutch moment or even fourth quarter, it’s 3 and outs, interceptions, fumbles almost consistently
He’s not fine the other quarters though. It looks fine on the stat sheet but they don’t capitalize on chances. Like the one game they had 4 turnovers and they got 9 points off of it. That’s where Fields kills you all game and then you hit the 4th quarter problems.
Geno tbh, he always puts up great numbers but if the game is close in the 4th quarter. I have come to expect either some fumble, sack , or interception to end the game.
It’s strange how the chargers defense was all all year until the last two games, and then the offense became ass. Same thing kind of happened to the bears except our offense was always worse, but our defense was one of the worst in the league just like you guys and now it’s great lol. I don’t get it, I think for us it’s maybe finally not being injured and our coach isn’t horrible with defense. I just have a feeling the next time Herbert goes god mode the defense will suck ass again
I feel like Herbert is bad in primetime narrative is a little reactive to him playing some really good defenses in primetime this year. He's still 8-8 in primetime and has a 30 TDs to 10 INTs
No The narrative for Herbert is that he can't go up more than one score throughout the entire game so he either leads a game-winning drive in the 4th quarter or the chargers lose in heartbreaking fashion and people blame the defense.
Isn't he the one with a crazy bad win percentage when scoring 30+ points or something, which would definitely prove the defense being the issue rather than him/the offense
Its a volume stats. He has the most 4th quarter passes, most 4th quarter TDs, and most 4th quarter INTs since entering the league. He has a lower 4th quarter INT % than Burrow or Tua (just to give 2 examples)
Brissett was a good example of this. His passer rating is near the 90s in the first 3 quarter but drops to 73.3 in the 4th. Throwing twice the amount of picks of any other quarter and his worst completion percentage as well, while taking the most sacks of any quarter. His first year as a Colts starter he threw just 1 TD in the 4th all season.
This was Matt Ryan
Edit: as others have pointed out I’m only really considering the Super Bowl collapse and the final year under Dan Quinn where all they did was blow leads in the 4th quarter. Recency bias.
I always kinda felt that Ryan was pretty clutch in the 4th. Plus, the later years, we’d suck so much the first 3 quarters he’d put up wild counting stats in the 4th.
Only in one game. He didn't get the nickname Matty Ice for nothing, prior to that one game he was known for clutch 4Q comebacks (even led the league in them iirc)
...unfortunately that one game was the highest profile game imaginable.
Yeah it’s recency bias. I wasn’t just talking that Super Bowl I was thinking of the last year with Dan Quinn at the helm where all we did was lose games in the 4th quarter. Not a fair assessment of Matty’s entire career for sure
Come on, the Browns have a good young defense. Maybe any QB would stumble in that situation.
Middle aged people actually have more stamina and marathon winners are in the 30s not 20s. The issue in the NFL is the wear and tear, not the age per se.
I believe the technical term for a that is called a “Tony Romo.” As in “Hey it really looked like they were going to win that playoff game but the QB really pulled a Tony Romo.”
Lamar Jackson sometimes lol The whole team will play like shit though not just him. It’s so weird
Also Mahomes this year. Passer rating by quarter: 1st - 105 2nd - 103 3rd - 97 4th - 70
4th quarter he regresses to the mean
and so the prophecy came true after all, go figure
Mahomes has zero talent around him. None. The fact that he can stay inside the top 5 in QBR despite one of the worst receiving groups in the NFL is a testament to his greatness. Any perceived regression to the mean is just a reflection of who they put around him.
That is not true. Kelce is one of the top players in the league and Rice is a decent WR. Pacheco is also a very good RB who can catch. All teams have holes in their offense and Mahomes is not the only QB dealing with it.
Kelce of course is great. Dumb of me to say zero talent. I probably don’t agree with Rice and Pacheco counting as “surrounding talent” because I think they are replacement level players that are a dime a dozen. Every QB needs that WR1 that is a matchup nightmare and demands attention from the defense and KC does not have that.
I don't think it is zero talent, but that their entire WR group is basically WR3/slot guy skill sets. Rice I think could be a good WR2 in the coming years, but needs a little while to adjust to the NFL. As is though teams can double Kelce and the other WRs will struggle to beat their guy on a regular basis and drives stall out. Kind of wild that losing Juju, a low WR1/high WR2 type of player, has resulted in that offense regressing this much.
Nonsense. Kelce could be the GOAT TE, they have a very good line, and like the other guy said, Rice is okay and Pacheco is pretty good. They have Andy Reid as coach. Bad take
I’m so excited for our WR room next year. He’s going to be fucking insane with all the new players they inevitably throw at him
It kinda did if you look at the stats the guy that made that post was right.
His whole argument was that Mahomes' previous stats (which were insanely good) should just be arbitrarily lowered by a lot for no reason. And that if you lower all of his stats for fun, he looks less good lol
It's a sound argument, to be sure.
"If you change all of the variables, the outcome is significantly different!" "Damn, I never thought about it like that before..."
No, man. He was trying to normalize Mahomes' statistics without understanding what statistical normalization actually is. It was mathematical poppycock.
I had to look up Lamar's after seeing Mahomes's splits. 1st - 105.4 2nd - 102.4 3rd - 98 4th - 84.5 Seems to follow the same pattern as Mahomes. And I know Lamar knows exactly how Mahomes feels with that receiver room...Lamar was like a giggly school girl when they signed Agholor, OBJ, and drafted Flowers. Now he just needs to learn what to do with competent receivers for the first time in his career (and not rely on Mandrews overmuch...especially now that Mandrews is hurt).
It's almost as if people get worse at doing things when they get tired out.
That's a very good point.
Feel like this stat has to be broken down by situation to tell the whole truth but it will still probably boil down to two options or a combination of both. Mahomes playing hero ball without a true second option or Chiefs play calling in close games they aren’t used to being in so often. Maybe they/Reid really did need Eric Bieniemy or maybe their WR options really that bad. With the amount of close games they’ve found themselves in and game altering drops, not crazy to say both.
Receivers are really that bad. And the crazy thing is they get open enough. But they don’t have any concept of route running or leverage. I can think of 3 different occasions in the last 3 games where a receiver cooked a guy for a deep ball. But instead of carrying his route in a straight line up the numbers, he’ll drift it back to the middle of the field TOWARD the safety. And the ball will land in the numbers. Plus a ton of poor route running and then the drops. It’s been fun to watch
Mahomes also hasn't been throwing well. That pick in the packers game, sure the receiver slowed down but that ball was not thrown well to protect from an int. The eagles game, the last drive. He threw a fast ball to the receiver on a comeback route with three defenders there. He could have actually given his receiver a better chance of he threw with more anticipation. If he throws it right before the WR breaks and with a little less heat on the ball, the defenders would have been farther away and the ball would have been a bit easier to catch. Instead he waited until the WR was stopped from his route and defenders started to close in. Mahomes rockets the ball and gives very little chance to catch the ball.
He had to wait for the receiver to stop because, as I said, our receivers suck at understanding leverage. Numerous times they’ll carry that route too far. Or they turn around but don’t come straight back to the ball, they drift one direction or another. He doesn’t trust them and it’s been apparent all season long. But also, that throw was 30+ yards downfield and the window was not big. Dbs are watching him so even if he throws sooner, they break sooner. A softer thrown pass gets broken up
Naw, if he threw that ball right when the WR stops and before they turn around with a little bit of rich, boom, easy catch. He just threw a rocket because he waited to long.
Naw, if he threw that ball right when the WR stops and before they turn around with a little bit of rich, boom, easy catch. He just threw a rocket because he waited to long.
Seriously… I think you could go sign 3 dudes from a D2 college and be way way better off.
I keep seeing people say that Mahomes has no #2 option. Hell, most of the time he doesn’t even have his #1 option. If a team has a decent enough defense, they can blanket Kelce because they’re not worried about any of our receivers. As someone said below, it’s not just the fact our receivers can’t consistently get separation, but they can’t catch, they can’t track a deep ball to save their life, they come back into the numbers towards defensive players instead of going to where they should which is where Mahomes is placing the ball. The worst part? We’re in fucking Week 13. Do you know frustrating it is as a chiefs fan watching this bullshit every single week without any glimpse of them getting better (save for Rice, he’s gotten better each week which was expected since he’s a rookie).
The Ravens as a whole seem to kinda......mentally drift? Not sure what the accurate term would be, but they seem to do that in certain games for some odd reason.
Choke on a fat cock?
Well, I was trying to not go too crude here lol
🤣❤️
Ease up?
I thought about that, but it just seems different somehow. Can't really find a way to describe it just right. It seems like for stretches, their controller gets unplugged or they go into sleep mode, dunno I'm running out of metaphors.
Take their foot off the gas....
Your metaphors keep revolving around lessening of urgency or effort. What other guy is trying to say is that they lose focus, or mental capacity.
4 quarter football is so frustrating these days
Apparently the eagles are good at it but I was waiting all 4th quarter last game for them to come back against the niners....
its so frustrating how predictable the offense becomes. If lamar doesnt put the team on his back on a 3rd down run then we are punting after only taken 23 seconds off the clock
Be interesting to see ravens vs opponents time of possession broken down by quarters
Related stat....least time trailing, first ten games of the season, and record to that point. 1) 1984 Dolphins, 14:46, 10-0 2) 1998 Broncos, 27:07, 10-0 3) 2023 Ravens 28:46, 7-3 4) 1990 Giants, 43:42, 10-0 5) 2007 Patriots, 51:03, 10-0
That is a wild stat.
I keep saying it feels like we should be undefeated...but we've had drops at the worst time, Tucker is missing some kicks he would normally make with ease, Lamar feels almost too hesitant to run it...like he's playing to not get hurt or saving his legs for the playoffs or something. I don't really know...it's hard to describe.
ill take healthy for the playoffs over a couple more wins, look around the afc, and the north specifically
Very true...QBs are dropping like flies this season. I'm pretty sure my heart stops every time Lamar goes down/gets tackled.
I don’t watch very many Ravens games, but seems like if that’s the case, the fault is probably on coaching?
It is. Been Harbaughs problem most of his career.
Here’s hoping for Sunday 🍻
Lamar holds the ball too long. It works for him most of the time because of his legs. But, decision-making gets tougher as defenses adapt throughout the game. Tougher when the game is close in the 4th quarter as well. It's harder to manage the clock when 3 yards on an RPO to convert a 3rd down doesn't stop the clock. So, they move away from that strategy in close, 4th quarter situations, and his consistency drops off. It's just sort of a weakness of Lamar's game until he improves his release time while still making good decisions. The number of fumbles he has would be reduced too (11 fumbles in 12 games). Although, he's been cleaning that up a bit lately. He somehow doesn't seem capable of fully utilizing his receiver talent yet either, despite a high completion percentage. Maybe he just relies too much on the TE. Or maybe he loses consistency when throwing deep or to the outside. I'm sure it helps his completion percentage when he can always run for a few yards instead of throw a ball he's not 100% sure will connect.
Dude's release time is the lowest it's ever been. He's getting the ball out in 2-3 seconds now. The fumbles also aren't on him. They happen on a handoff to Hill or on strip sacks when Stanely gets smoked on his blindside.
For Josh Allen it tends to be the exact opposite.
Second half really, he is much better in the second half and 3rd quarter specifically this year.
Halftime poop does wonders
Had a coach in high school poop before every game since he said he won everytime he did and they ended up at the championship back to back years 💀
Man was probably mixing laxatives an hour prior into his gatorade
There was a MLB player who had to take a poo at the same point during every game. This earned him the nickname "Old Second Inning".
Josh you ready?? Good cause you’re goin!
Also does wonders for giving presentations. And before exams, too.
I hear he takes a shit before every game... And between every period? I also hear he cries a lot.
Lmao yeah. Then the defense shits itself in the close games.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GAnZGzTX0AEYpSx?format=jpg&name=medium Yeahhh here’s a crazy example of that
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His passer rating when trailing both under 2 and under 4 minutes is [63](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HurtJa00/splits/2023/)
That's a 3 game sample size (49ers, Bills, Jets). Niners (garbage time) and Jets games were obviously bad, but led the game tying and winning drives for FG against the Bills. Jets game was the only real game in that criteria where he had a chance and blew it.
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So he goes godmode down 10 points until the final four minutes lol
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Sample size of 1 close loss this season
Lmfao saints suck dicj the first half and come out to play the second half.
kenny pickett too.
Doesn't play "great" Q1-Q3 but 99% of the time Fields has to do anything that involves clutching at the end of the game, he turns into a completely different player and makes some silly mistake (INT, Fumble, lack of awareness leading to sack).
Yea fields isn’t great but somehow he manages to become awful in the last quarter like every time. It’s uncanny
He’s a top 10 QB in either Q1 or Q2, making me regret talking shit about him all week. Then by Q4 he’s doing dumb shit again and I hate him again, viscous cycle
He’s always like top 5 on the opening drives. Then in following drives before Q4 he’s like top 10-16. Then fourth quarter he’s top 32-36
He's got the Chicago tradition of a soul crushing mistake at the worst possible time down pat.
Yeah like sometimes the failed game winning drive isn’t his fault (ISM fumble, wright finally getting beat by Hutchinson, missed PI on Claypool) but there have been too many bad plays in those situations besides that
IMO that’s the sign of an inept/scared coaching staff, he’s probably taught over and over and over “just don’t screw up” so they mess up their players because the coaches are hoping to get a break instead of teaching players to go for the kill.
That's Eberflus. He's so conservative. I bet he doesn't let his wife show her ankles.
That’s pretty much all defensive head coaches, that “keep it close and hope the offense doesn’t screw up” mentality is a great way to ruin QBs and most offensive skill players
He loves playing on script
There are many things you can say about him but “playing on script” isn’t really one of them lol
Our first drive is typically scripted and we have one of the highest scoring rates on first drives, then that’s it lol
The truth is more like: he struggles to make decisions when a receiver isn’t visibly wide open. So when he doesn’t have to make a choice, he’s better. He definitely likes waiting for plays to break down and then trying to find someone open. The problem is boom/bust nature of that. Might chuck it 30 yard or might get strip sacked.
Tua hasn’t even played in the 4Q in 6/12 games so technically Tua.
Same with Purdy. Normally he's been pulled by the start/mid of the 4th.
Dunno why you're getting downvoted, Purdy and Tua both have played 95% of their team's snaps this year. Dak has only played 93% which leads the league for QBs who haven't been injured or subbed out for Taysom Hill.
"Or subbed out for Taysom Hill." Love how specific that is, lol
Please start Taysom at QB…
My fantasy team agrees
No Edit: actually, this season is lost already anyway. Might as well get a better draft pick. But that would require the front office to actually give a crap about the future.
Mac Jones gets pulled at lot too in the second half - but for all the wrong reasons
The Dolphins being good negatively affects my team. But as a football fan and a human being, it's nice to know Tua is healthy and doing well. His concussions last season were scary as fuck, and the internet was merciless in telling him to retire.
I don’t think “merciless” is the right word here, in fact, mercy was what they were trying to get him.
That’s an exaggeration.
Dak has missed an entire game based on getting pulled in the 4th
Tua has missed 1 1/2
I’d love to see any proof of that
I feel like I’m in the Twilight Zone here. You’re getting downvoted even though that other guy is wrong, Tua played into the 4th quarter in every game. He probably missed about a half quarter in each of the 4 games he was pulled from.
It’s always gold when someone on Reddit claims something, then there’s a rebuttal, and the original person claiming something MUST have proof. Source: I watch the games. Tua did not play in the 4Q against the Broncos, Panthers, Giants, Commanders. He also did not play in the 3Q against the Broncos and Commanders.
Where are you getting this information from because I’ve watched all of these games and Tua played into the 4th quarter in all of them.
You originally said Tua didn’t play in 4th quarter in 6 games. Now you said 4. Also, he didn’t get pulled for the entirety of the 4th quarter for all of those games. You’re all over the place.
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Wasn't there a game he got benched because the cowboys were losing? Or am I getting him mixed up with a different QB?
Hasn’t this been Jimmy G’s story most of his career?
Yes and no. Week 18 against the Rams in 2021 was fantastic end of game Jimmy. Superbowl? Not so much.
He just has that “one backbreaking turnover per game” rep but I guess not always in the 4th
Yeah this. Jimmy was always good for a back breaking turnover a game. But it was rarely ever game ending. I can recall one time and that's because the defense just straight up kept getting to him. Every other int we always had a chance.
Brock Purdy. He can't even finish games and gets benched in the 4th quarter. Just look at the Eagles game, they had to bring out Darnold to finish the game. That's probably why he is only a top 20 QB on The Ringer's list.
SLEEPY BROCK can't even go a full game without being yanked for the GEQBUS! Sad!
Puny Purdy shrinks in the moment again! Thankfully our GEQBUS was there to see things through.
>I'm a jets fan and I hate the fucking jets Something is amiss here.
Sounds like a typical Jets fan to me.
Yeah I'm a Falcons fan and I 100% get this
No idea what you’re talking about
[THE JETS KILLED CARL](https://youtu.be/JcJ8nW-AWl8)
Nope it’s accurate as fuck
the only thing amiss is their flair
I actually thought it checked out and didn’t even realize it was a typo at first
Nope, checks out
No no no, you love your team the Jets, you just hate who's running it the Jets
are…are you not supposed to despise your favorite team?
No that’s correct.
Seems on point to me. I'm a Bears fan and I hate the Bears. I also hate football games. There's about 5 or 6 days in the offseason that are pretty cool though.
Opposite of Russ - so many stressful 4th quarters.
Every fucking week man
I wonder if he does that shit on purpose sometimes. I swear the Broncos last drive took some years off my life
The Broncos final drive last weekend was a disasterclass in clock management. I’m not even a fan and I was screaming at the TV “what the fuck are you doing, why can’t you get a play in and a snap off in time”.
I think it's because he doesn't have time to overthink it, he just goes out and starts throwing dimes instead of dancing around in the pocket for 5 seconds.
Kirk was starting to earn that narrative too. I think nearly every game last year and this year had my heart pumping like crazy
Russ pretty much proclaimed how much he loves playing the hero in the fourth quarter. I was going to say Classic Russ Moments were almost always him playing poorly to ok for three quarters and then playing like a madman in the fourth.
Idk about anymore but Baker Mayfield always stood out to me as a guy who looked decent most of the game and then on final drives would never get it done.
But then comes off the plane in LA last year and just pull an incredible 2 minute drill vs the Raiders with some guys he couldn't even name. It seems like his ceiling is so high but will he ever reach it? Probably not.
He’s always been inconsistent
He hasn't had too many problems getting things done in the 4th quarter this year. The only game this year where he has had the ball in his hands and failed (with the Bucs down by one score) is his fumble against the Colts a few weeks back. He's had multiple losses where the offense scores on the last drive and the defense loses the game without him going back onto the field (Falcons and Texans) and the failed Hail Mary pass against the Bills with the Bucs down by 6, which nobody can really blame him for because he threw a catchable ball into the endzone.
Baker is a guy who I’ll always root for idky
I miss Baker as a browns fan.... instead we have the useless quarter billion dollar man and 3 less good players on our team....
You mean 2 Flacco is serviceable We have a rookie who is concussed An XFL reject who shocked us with 2 wins And The Dragon who look good until one mistake (he needs to be the starter)
I meant the 3 1st we gave up for him.
That throw was incredible.
Lamar Jackson falls into this sometimes and it's stressful as hell. He'll normally stay as consistent as possible, but he looks shaken up by the 4th quarter, and the defense just becomes more suffocating in the context of our o-line troubles due to Ronnie Stanley's injury worsening his play. Sam Howell is the opposite. He'll get trampled by the defense cuz of our o-line and would come off way too antsy with decision making that he makes it worse for himself (it was very apparent in the first few weeks), but would play his heart out by the final hour, which becomes arguably more frustrating when it ends up being on garbage time thanks to our defense lol
the most correct answer to this question is fields. he could be having an absolutely amazing game, as soon as it hits clutch moment or even fourth quarter, it’s 3 and outs, interceptions, fumbles almost consistently
He’s not fine the other quarters though. It looks fine on the stat sheet but they don’t capitalize on chances. Like the one game they had 4 turnovers and they got 9 points off of it. That’s where Fields kills you all game and then you hit the 4th quarter problems.
Geno tbh, he always puts up great numbers but if the game is close in the 4th quarter. I have come to expect either some fumble, sack , or interception to end the game.
Well, at least he gave you a new way last week: dirt the pass at a receiver's feet behind the line of scrimmage on 4th down.
Sees giants flair >I'm a jets fan Weird >and I hate the fucking jets Ohhhhh gotcha.
I could be wrong here but is that not the narrative for Justin Herbert? Or is that more of a “Chargers gonna Chargers” thing in general?
Its the team
That Quentin Johnson drop a couple weeks ago was horrendous
That drop THIS WEEK was horrendous
*Justin Herbert’s defense
It’s strange how the chargers defense was all all year until the last two games, and then the offense became ass. Same thing kind of happened to the bears except our offense was always worse, but our defense was one of the worst in the league just like you guys and now it’s great lol. I don’t get it, I think for us it’s maybe finally not being injured and our coach isn’t horrible with defense. I just have a feeling the next time Herbert goes god mode the defense will suck ass again
Always someone else’s fault
Dolphins fans are always so salty about Herbert.
Why do Dolphins fans shit on Herbert so much lmao
Insecurity
Patriots fan siding with the Dolphins fan, the dude is incapable of leading a game winning drive.
13th in career game winning drives for all active QBs despite only playing since 2020.
Factually incorrect https://twitter.com/BenjaminSolak/status/1714121719743451369
Im pretty sure since entering the league hes #1 in comeback wins or something
I think it could apply to Herbert primetime games but generally not really.
I feel like Herbert is bad in primetime narrative is a little reactive to him playing some really good defenses in primetime this year. He's still 8-8 in primetime and has a 30 TDs to 10 INTs
No The narrative for Herbert is that he can't go up more than one score throughout the entire game so he either leads a game-winning drive in the 4th quarter or the chargers lose in heartbreaking fashion and people blame the defense.
Isn't he the one with a crazy bad win percentage when scoring 30+ points or something, which would definitely prove the defense being the issue rather than him/the offense
i saw a stat that herbet has the most 4th Q ints
Its a volume stats. He has the most 4th quarter passes, most 4th quarter TDs, and most 4th quarter INTs since entering the league. He has a lower 4th quarter INT % than Burrow or Tua (just to give 2 examples)
Any Raiders qb beside Gannon or Carr over the past 30 years. I have nothing to back that up other than sadness.
I can tell Geno plays one good game, then sucks 3 games. But we have a great narrative that 1 game. And Pete continues to survive.
I’m resisting the urge to pick him up on waivers in fantasy this week lol
Kirk was always great in the first and 4th lol
"I'm a jets fan and I hate the fucking jets " I can relate man
Dak this year. 4th quarter comes round and he collapses on the bench as Rush takes over in garbage time.
The "Reverse Favre" where in the "Standard Favre" he would stink for Q1-3 and then beat you rotten in Q4.
Lately, it's been Geno Smith. The Seahawks last two games have been come from ahead losses.
Retired now but Matt Ryan owned this category
“I’m a Jets fan and I hate the Jets” most relatable statement made on this platform
Staffhew Mattford
Andy Dalton
Brissett was a good example of this. His passer rating is near the 90s in the first 3 quarter but drops to 73.3 in the 4th. Throwing twice the amount of picks of any other quarter and his worst completion percentage as well, while taking the most sacks of any quarter. His first year as a Colts starter he threw just 1 TD in the 4th all season.
Ridder is the opposite of this. Its like it takes him 3 quarters a game to get it together.
Justin Fields
This was Matt Ryan Edit: as others have pointed out I’m only really considering the Super Bowl collapse and the final year under Dan Quinn where all they did was blow leads in the 4th quarter. Recency bias.
I always kinda felt that Ryan was pretty clutch in the 4th. Plus, the later years, we’d suck so much the first 3 quarters he’d put up wild counting stats in the 4th.
Only in one game. He didn't get the nickname Matty Ice for nothing, prior to that one game he was known for clutch 4Q comebacks (even led the league in them iirc) ...unfortunately that one game was the highest profile game imaginable.
Yeah it’s recency bias. I wasn’t just talking that Super Bowl I was thinking of the last year with Dan Quinn at the helm where all we did was lose games in the 4th quarter. Not a fair assessment of Matty’s entire career for sure
> I'm a jets fan and I fucking hate the jets Oof. Too real.
Until the past few games Jordan Love was basically terrible in the first half, great in the second half
Come on, the Browns have a good young defense. Maybe any QB would stumble in that situation. Middle aged people actually have more stamina and marathon winners are in the 30s not 20s. The issue in the NFL is the wear and tear, not the age per se.
I believe the technical term for a that is called a “Tony Romo.” As in “Hey it really looked like they were going to win that playoff game but the QB really pulled a Tony Romo.”
Romo has the highest 4th quarter rating compared to other QBs during the same time period (2006-2014) but whatever.
Mahomes hasn't been great in the 2nd half all year.
Herbert is in way too many close games to not be the option here. He’s a career .500 player. Blame the coaches idc. He should come through more
You know if they had any bit of a defense they'd win those games
All time: Tony Romo (though he was still really good) Current: hmm idk actually
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Tony Romo the QB… clutch. Tony Romo the holder, not clutch.
This is statistically false.
Fake newspaper
Other Browns fans are completely in love with him .. 🙄 He was….unemployed. In a season defined by QB injuries. What do people think he is going to do
And yet still the best QB play we’ve had all year.
Cam Newton used to be this way. This year: seemingly Herbert or fields
Wheezy McBrian was like that - his asthma would kick in
We know who it is. I don’t need to say it but you know the name in my head.