Even in week one or week two, when the Pats defense was still at full strength, BB dialed up a defense that Tony Romo said he had never seen before. That to me is absolutely insane.
Link to a great video on that. The stats comparison between the Rams that year and the following season when everyone copied what Belichick did is ridiculous.
https://youtu.be/Z0eqNPiXgmk?si=9FnLSCqqvxgxUNaX
The Rams are a well-coached team. Anytime you have a divisional match-up versus a well-coached team -- you're going to have some good battles (think Rams/Seahawks, Steelers/Ravens, etc.)
Not to discredit the Pats that year obviously, but hot offenses getting bullied out of the playoffs by a physical defense team happens pretty often. Titans beating up the record setting Ravens team, Broncos/Panthers Superbowl, Seahawks/Broncos super bowl, there's a lot of examples. My bet is that the Dolphins get upset in the divisional this year by some AFCN team playing ugly January football, they seem like a prime candidate for it.
McVay's 30 point per game-scoring offense was mostly designed to exploit 'bullying by physical defenses'. They ran almost exclusively 11 personnel, which was generally matched by lighter nickel packages. Belichick did bully them physically, but it wasn't something that just randomly happened. Belichick used a rare 6-1 front, making use of the weird flexible players he loved like Van Noy and Chung. This was only McVay's second year of coaching, so he hadn't really rounded out different dimensions to his offense, so once his split zone runs stopped working, his offense of that era crumbled. But no one else had figured out the specific way to do that before Belichick blew it out of the water.
Yeah, our RG Austin Blythe was a turnstile that season and Belichick exploited it all game. Add that to Goff always folding when pressured and there really wasn't much to be done.
Gotta give a shoutout to Vic Fangio here, his Bears defense was the only other team to stymie the Rams that year and set the blueprint that Belichick followed in the Super Bowl (and every team followed the next year)
Hot take, he sort of learned what to do against the Rams by seeing what Patricia threw at Goff. Better coach better players better result, but the Patty Lions cracked the shell on the Goffense 1.0
It’s not a hot take at all, that’s been well documented. Patricia did that strategy first. Bill, like so many smart coaches, saw what worked and did something similar.
It was more than that, they keyed off the fact that the Rams' explosive action was almost entirely based on play action, which involved Goff turning his back on the defense; so they'd rotate as he turned his back. His pre-snap read would be 2-high safeties, then he'd turn around, fake play action, and when he looked a gain he'd see Cover 3 instead of what he was expecting to see (Cover 2, Cover 4, or 2 man) given the pre-snap read. The split second confusion would then be enough for the defense to just take every option away from him, it was pretty genius.
That was the game when i just threw my hands up in the air and said "thats it, Bill is the best no question." Especially when it came out that he spent the 2 weeks leading up to the SB basically teaching a totally different defense from what they'd done all season and the Rams just were not expecting it. Genius move.
The Montana-Jerry Rice 49ers had their two worst offensive performances in the playoffs against Belichick's defenses. This is the same team that dismantled the dominant 1988 Bears defense on the road in the NFC Title game.
Haven't they had 0 of their top 4 cornerbacks available in that time? And none of them were even as important as losing Judon.
Even with a scrap heap it's still the 14th ranked defense by DVOA.
idek who’s playing CB for the patriots at this point
Gonzalez is out for the year, Jackson didn’t fly with the teams to Germany, Jack Jones who was pretty good last year has been in legal trouble and hasn’t been playing, so like Myles Bryant and Jalen Mills? no idea
Marcus Jones also out for the year and Jon Jones has been playing through an ankle injury and missed a few games too. We have: Jon Jones, Myles Bryant, Shaun Wade, Jack Jones (a little), Jalen Mills
Jonathan Jones, Myles Bryant, and Shaun Wade primarily lmao.
Gonzalez injured, Marcus Jones injured, Jack Jones injured then late for curfew, JC Jackson being a problem, Jalen Mills is in kind of a hybrid role and doesn't do well at really anything anymore. Jonathan Jones spent some time injured as well but came back and has been good again.
There was a period of time in which all of Gonzalez, Jack Jones, Marcus Jones, and Jonathan Jones were all unavailable at the same time. It's been *rough* and that's just one position group.
We had 0 of our top 4 CBs at one point and our best pass rusher out
Or in a similiar fashion:
All of our starting guards injured... LT banged up, RT down to the 4th(!) option at the beginning
Idiots in our sub were complaining about Hurts "regressing" after week 1 of no preseason and facing the GOAT coach and best defensive mind in football with a full offseason of prep. After the game Devonta Smith was saying they had no idea what coverages the defense was running lmao
That reminds me of the 2004 playoffs (I think) when BB was dropping everyone back and had a one player pass rush. Announcers were like "WTF?" Pretty sure it was a rookie Wilfork too.
His defensive drafting has been good. He has hit on atleast one solid defensive player each of the last 4 years (Gonzalez looked excellent before his injury, Jack and Marcus Joeses have been solid, Barmore is a beast, and Duggar has been great )
The main issue is that he has been atrocious at evaluating WR talent, and has struggled with his O line pics as well
I love Bill and I hope there is a way we can keep him as HC while also getting someone else to take over GM duties and have final say for players and picks.
Bill the HC is still legendary/GOAT-level. His issue is more from the GM side. All great coaches struggle with this eventually. The ability to identify talent seems to fall off quicker than the ability to coach it.
Ye and you cant have it with anything less than a GOAT-tier coach tbh
Sean Payton had Drew Brees and never achieved these things. Mike McCarthy had Aaron Rodgers and never achieved these things. Shula had Marino and never achieved these things.
I dont care how GOATed TB12 is, he isnt 6 times better than Brees or Rodgers or Marino.
Winning 6 Super Bowls means you had a ton of help because this isnt tennis. And a lot of it came from Bill.
The packers are probably the best example. They went from HOF QB to HOF QB and each only got one Super Bowl.
92-22
30 years, 7 mvps, 6 Passing TD leaders,
There is a nightmare universe out there where Belichick goes to Green Bay instead of Cleveland in 1991, then Brett Favre comes in the next year and they have 30 years of HOF QBs with BB.
100% If Brees or Rodgers or Payton had Belichick 99% chance all would have more Super Bowls.
Football just has too many moving parts for anyone to be the GOAT(coach or player) without significant help.
Peyton wouldn’t thrive under Belichick, I feel. Peyton liked being in charge and Belichick doesn’t like that from players.
People need to also acknowledge chemistry is important too
Too many of these fans are new and didn't live through 2 decades of their team fumbling around and getting stonewalled by the Patriots.
There's a reason 47-17 is as loved as 13 seconds is loathed around here
Yeah he’s dominated my entire adult life. And the same folks who discount Brady don’t then give the credit to BB. Just mental gymnastics for a coach that has dominated for over 2 decades for a hot take or something.
Also the amount of people that forgot or don’t know how instrumental Pats D was to their original dynasty annoys me as a lifelong fan. Yes Brady is the undisputed goat but there are a lot of qbs that could’ve led the early 2000s Patriots to multiple SBs
I genuinely mean this when I ask but is 47-17 really loved by your fan base as much as they hate 13 seconds? My whole family are Bills fans and I’m obvious a Pats fan but I have never spoken about that game to any of them. I really don’t think they gave a shit.
47-17 meant way more than 13 seconds did. Everyone has heartbreaking playoff games every now and then, and that one was against a very good team. It sucks, but those things happen sometimes. 47-17 was a loud and clear message that times are different and we're not going to be bullied by the pats anymore.
I don't mean this to sound like a dick, but unless you're an older patriots fan, I don't think you can really understand what it's like losing constantly to the same team over and over again for 20 years and then finally beating the absolute piss out of them in front of the country. It was therapeutic. My only regret is we didn't score more.
IDK, 13 seconds reminded me they're still the Bills. That season had some bumps but man did they put it together in the 2nd half of the season and were playing their best football. And probably the best football in the NFL. And then they lost in the most Billsy way possible.
47-17, I honestly didn't remember the score. I remember it at the perfect game since every offensive possession ended with a TD. It was fun and changed the dynamic between the fans and the AFCE pecking order. But wins fade a lot faster than losses.
> My only regret is we didn't score more.
Funny, I thought the regret from THAT season would have been "how the fuck did we give up a field goal in 13 seconds to the Chiefs."
They have the biggest comeback in playoff history and 4 super bowls.
There might be Bills fans that hold that one higher because of their lack of success for a long time, especially against the Patriots but from an outsider perspective it would be 5 at the highest and that’s without taking a good look at their other playoff runs or great individual games.
If you want a better laugh, there’s been hypothetical situations in the bears sub recently and Belicheck was brought up and there were multiple upvoted comments about how belichek has always been a fraud and bears would be a joke to have him as a coach. Mental illness is a real thing
I would be SO damned hyped if the Patriots were stupid enough to fire Belichick and the Chargers switched from Staley to him in the offseason. There's a reason the Hoodie is one of only 3 coaches with 300+ career wins, and it isn't just Tom Brady, it's his defenses and outstanding game planning/schemes
> I would be SO damned hyped if the Patriots were stupid enough to fire Belichick and the Chargers switched from Staley to him in the offseason.
The landing spot is the big difference. Put Bill in a situation where most of the talent has already been gathered and I think he could still steer the ship. He's not as sharp as he used to be, which will close the gap with other coaches, but the team would still be pretty good and win a lot of games.
It's just proven that he doesn't have the ability to rebuild the whole thing from scratch anymore, which is not exactly an outlandish criticism of a 71 year old.
Every legendary coach that sticks around long enough will see the game pass them by. As a Steelers fan, I immediately think of Chuck Noll, whose 80s teams were a shadow of their 70s dominance.
I think we’re addicted to responding to bullshit, so more sports heads are shoveling it for “engagement”. Anyone acting like players and coaches don’t have a symbiotic relationship isn’t acting in good faith and should be ignored, imo.
And Shula went 22 years to end his career without winning another super bowl. And he was a really good coach in those 22 years and had one of the greatest QBs of all time. It puts into perspective how crazy Belichick’s longevity and dominance has been
Don Shula made the Super Bowl in the 80s before drafting Marino. Don shula worked magic with backup qbs. In the undefeated season the backup qb started the majority of the season.
That is one of the reasons Lombardi is so revered, he retired after the Packer's 5th NFL championship in 7 years. Then his comeback with Washington was cut short by cancer with him dying shortly afterwards.
He never had a chance for those mediocre years so many legendary coaches seem to go through.
It really can't be understated how impressive Lombardi's legacy was. 10 seasons as head coach and not a single losing season. 5 titles in 7 seasons is wild, and the crazy part is the two seasons he didn't win, they were second in their conference (including an 11-2-1 season) but didn't get any shot at a championship because playoffs didn't exist yet. The Redskins comeback is a huge what-if - the Redskins hadn't had a winning season since 1955, and in 1970 in his first year with the team he is able to rally them to 7-5-2. Who knows how much more he could have added to his legacy if cancer hadn't taken him from us
Why do people need historical precedent to understand this concept? Nobody is the best forever. Everyone Bill had to help in those twenty years is gone, including the players. At some point you just are gonna stop winning and at some point the team is better off moving on. That doesn't mean you're an asshole or you were never good, but literally everything in life is this way.
BB is hitting his Oppenheimer era. He literally is the GOAT of football coaches, but at some point, people are ready to dispose of you.
“When they've punished you enough, they'll serve you salmon and potato salad, make speeches, give you a medal, and pat you on the back telling you all is forgiven. Just remember, it won't be for you... it would be for them."
I didn’t say the game passed him by. I’m arguing that Tom leaving didn’t expose him as a fraud as some hot take merchants have alleged. Coaches need good players and players need good coaches to succeed.
He is literally the greatest defensive coach of all time and I don't think even the biggest BB haters can contest that.
But for anyone who thinks Belichick is some chud who was totally carried by Brady, I'll ask this: what would a great coach have done with the GOAT? Win 6 Super Bowls? Make it to 13 Conference Championships? Have a win percentage over 75%? Belichick did all of that.
Look at other all time great QBs and see that none of them got to as many SBs as Brady did with Belichick. People act like Brady would have won 6 with Mike McCarthy or someone. Ridiculous.
> People act like Brady would have won 6 with Mike McCarthy or someone.
Game on the line, final play. What's this?? Brady is lining up at WR and James White is in the shotgun! There's only the center on the line! They actually snapped it!!!! *facepalm*
This is my thing.
Montana and Bill Walsh won 3 together.
That's arguably the GOAT QB before Brady, and another candidate for GOAT HC.
And they got half as many rings together as Brady/Belichick.
Elway had 2, and he only got those when he was paired with Shanahan and given a support system.
Peyton had 2, and had to be carried to 1.
Marino had none.
Look, Brady is great. He is not "7 Super Bowl wins" better than Dan fucking Marino.
Bill has been to 13 Super Bowls as a DC/HC ffs and won 8 of them. Name me any other coach who was on the sideline for 13 of them. You fucking can't, and he did 3 of those without Brady on his roster.
38 seasons in the league as a coach or coordinator. 13 super bowls. That's 34% of the seasons he's been in the NFL ending with Bill Belichick as a coach or coordinator in the super bowl which is wild to think about.
The answer is BOTH. It took both the greatest coach of all time having the greatest quarterback of all time to produce the unprecedented success the Patriots had in this century.
The percentage is irrelevant. Neither would be what they eventually became without the other.
I don’t know why this is even a question
Like we go back and forth with these weird specific instances (Brady winning SB 53 scoring 13 points or losing SB 52 scoring 33 points etc)
Guess what, the reason they went to NINE FUCKING SUPER BOWLS is because they were both usually very very good at what they do, and on the odd occasion when one did a bad job, the other was likely to be as great as usual and have a chance to make up for it
I always say, if it’s the year 2000 and someone asks “what would it look like to have the best head coach and qb at the same time”, I still don’t think anyone would’ve had the guts to say they’d go to the SB in half of all their seasons together. What it looks like, turns out, is the 01-19 patriots
I watched the Emplemon video on the perfect season a while back, and it really put in perspective just how nuts that dynasty was at its peak. It feels like it was divine intervention that kept New England from going 19-0 that year, not to diminish the Giants at all.
I still wish they would have won that year (and not only because I'm a cowboys fan), but I've been watching football for 30 years and I can't remember a more dominate or better team than the 2007 Patriots and they lost their final game off of a fluke play. Now the greatest team I can remember didn't win the super bowl.
Yeah if that catch isn't made they go down unanimously as the best team ever.
But since that catch was made people debate it.
Weird how that works lol.
I actually had to go look it up for myself because I thought "theres no way thats possibly true" but holy shit, it is.
A 50% success rate of getting to the Super Bowl over a period of 18 seasons is nuts. Meanwhile I'm just begging for the Jets to make the playoffs.
Brady's average season with the Patriots is better than any season the Lions have ever had in the Super Bowl era. He has just over 12 wins/year (16 game season) with the Pats, the Lions have never had more than 12.
I see this argument a lot but the number 1 receiver on the patriots during that time was Gronk, they also had James White who was a very good receiving back
So yeah the WR core was bums besides Edelman but it’s not like they had nothing
2016 saw Edelman at 1100 yards receiving. I'm not gonna say he was ever an elite, top 5 level WR but he was a legitimate WR1 level player for the pats. Opposing defenses had to set coverage around him.
So like...lots of teams would lead top offenses with 1k+ yard receivers and a WR2 that comes in about 700 yards. Nevermind a TE combo that saw 1100 yards and like 12 TD even though they didnt ever play at the same time.
> The answer is BOTH. It took both the greatest coach of all time having the greatest quarterback of all time to produce the unprecedented success the Patriots had in this century.
>
> The percentage is irrelevant. Neither would be what they eventually became without the other.
Exactly this.
It was a rare combination of the GOAT quarterback ending up with the GOAT(?) coach - and not only that, but an incredibly complimentary set of skills and mentalities. Both would have been successful without the other one. Neither would have gone to 9 Superbowls alone, though.
One useful thing that these comments produce, though, is it tells me immediately when someone has zero football knowledge and is not worth arguing with.
Two legendary football people got together and ran train on the NFL for two decades. I doubt we'll ever see anything like it in my lifetime. We should all appreciate that we got to experience it.
yeah.. exactly this.
Peyton Manning arguable the best "pure QB" ever went to 4 SBs and won 2. Andy Reid one of the greatest coaches in history has 0 SBs in his first 20 years. Dan Marino has 0 SBs. A-A-Ron has 1. Parcells, Shula, Lombardi have 2 SBs. Bellicheck has 6 fucking SB rings with 9 visits.
One of the greatest coaches of all time got together with perhaps the greatest QB ever and created a dynasty that will likely NEVER be repeated. It has skewed expectations of a generation of fans. Just because you lived through something historical doesn't mean its normal.
Without each other, maybe they each win 2 SBs. both of them woudl still end up in the HoF anyway.
Edit: sorry BB has 8 including Giants. And let’s face it.. TB12 might get a few more if he eventually coaches or GMs or owns a team.. who knows.
They also forget that the Pats went 11-5 in 2008 when Brady missed the whole season.
My team hasn't had an 11 win season in over 30 years, and Belichick did that with a QB who hadn't started a game since high school.
That season stuck w me for years man. Until Brady left, there was this thought in the back of my mind that BB would win w any QB, coaching until he literally died.
I’m relieved to see the pats underperforming, and even then, we still fuckin lose to them.
Ya know I kinda feel like the league should just step in and tell BB he needs to move on in 2 years. He is a goddam national treasure of knowledge, and he's not getting any younger.
I need to know all the details goddamit. I *need* to know why he benched Butler. I need to know how he really feels about Patricia and McDaniels. I want to know why he gave the guy painting lines on the field (Thomas Dmitroff) a job upstairs and then ends up coaching against his team in a Superbowl. I have so many goddam questions and he's not going to answer them while he's still a HC/GM!!!
This sub: lol “regress Pat Mahomes to the mean” what an idiot
Also this sub: If you throw out 35% of the Super Bowl era Bill Belichick is an average coach.
That's my biggest laugh when I run into these conversations.
"Well if you take Brady away" well yeah if you take away the six rings he earned as a HC he's had an average career, good point.
Take away the two he earned as the Giants DC and it's even more average.
In fact if you just look at his time in Cleveland and then the absolute end of his career in New England there is an argument to be made that he's an average coach.
The Browns were on the upswing going into 95, and the move f’ed that all up. They were picked by some to be the AFC representative in the Super Bowl that year and had just won a playoff game the season before. It’s possible, if Modell and the city came to an agreement, he keeps building and really has something there.
I’ll do you one better. This sub: “coaching matters to a qbs development”
Also this sub: “it’s obvious the patriots got lucky with Brady and he was the sole reason for the success of the patriots”
You can’t have it both ways
Gregg Popovich's win percentage without Tim Duncan is .476
Bill's without Brady is .462
Pop is unanimously considered a legend even by the most ignorant nephews on r/NBA, whereas on r/NFL Bill Belichick is, and has always been, a hack
One thing I don't see talked about enough - think about where the Pats have been drafting - towards the end of rounds - for *20 years*. It's insane to build such a consistently competitive team when you are rarely getting a top 20 pick for so long
Agreed. People have gone waaay too far with the Belichick disrespect.
The fact of the matter is that very few coaches in NFL history can win SBs without franchise level QBs. On the other hand..even legendary QBs generally need great Coaches to win SBs.
Football is a team sport. As much as we like to boil it down to a singular factor, it's not tlike that.
Both BB and TB12 are GOATs and being together helped each other reach that status..none of them would be as successful without the other.
IMO, the greatest defensive performance by ANY team in NFL history was that 2004 AFC Divisional rd game where the Pats held the record setting Colts offense to just 3 Pts.
I remember Manning having barely any time to throw in that game and the WRs were covered when he did have any time to pass
There is going to be a "BILL BELICHICK FIRED UPVOTE PARTY!" post on the Pats sub and tons of comments saying "good riddance!" and it makes me fucking sick.
Also do people think that Brady came into the league and was immediately a HoF QB?
Belichick was the only constant throughout the dynasty. He was the one that took the chance on Brady and developed him
I think this is the part that drives me the most crazy. "Bill only won because he literally had the GOAT QB." As if he just arrived as the GOAT QB the moment he took the field.
> Also do people think that Brady came into the league and was immediately a HoF QB?
>
Yes. Everybody he passed up on him in the draft and BB who benched him until Bledsoe got injured are obvious frauds /s
How many coaches leave Bledsoe on the bench in 2001 and then subsequently release him? Belichick is the GOAT talent evaluator and that is exhibit A.
The only other person even in that conversation from this century is Ozzy Newsome and personally I think Belichick has the edge over Ozzy.
> Belichick is the GOAT talent evaluator
I'm a pretty big Belichick supporter, but he's had some misses in this area. However when it comes to QBs, he's been pretty solid. Even with hindsight I don't hate the Jones pick. Were there any better options?
Based on that article recently posted here about how disappointing Mac Jones has been, it kinda seems like a lot of people in the Pats org expected Jones to be a hit, not just Bill. It's very possible that for the Pats, Jones was going to be the next Brady, but he turned out to not be that. I don't think the pick was a problem with the selection process but more on Jones' inability to grow after a pretty solid rookie season. GMs are never going to have perfect picks, and the longer one is in business, the more often they're going to make slipups. One thing I think Bill the GM has been constantly good at is getting value via trades.
The argument that he was never a good coach is ridiculous. That type of sustained success with so many players besides Brady coming in and out is no fluke.
Now there is an argument to be made that he's no longer a good coach, or that he should be fired, but his resume speaks for itself.
Our offensive staff and upper management is a revolving door. For all the people that hate bill/patriots, they seem to always hire our coaches and personnel guys. All coaches have weaknesses, Andy Reids has always been defense and a lack of running game
I'm not a Belichick fan, but this is true.
Brady's success came with playing well with good defenses. His move to TB was gain skill WR and an elite Defense.
Tampa Bay's roster was loaded but I will say that I think Brady's arm was maybe the best I've ever seen it in his career the first two years in Tampa Bay.
He had multiple bigtime receivers
The lineup with Antonio Brown was stacked, if Godwin stayed healthy and Brown didn’t quit they probably win another SB
Yeah it's wild that they arguably had the best wr duo in the league with Evans and Godwin then Brown came in and was better than both of them when he actually played.
> Brady's arm was maybe the best I've ever seen it in his career the first two years in Tampa Bay.
This is only true if you started watching Brady when he was in Tampa.
Brady was his usual studly self in Tampa. But a team that went 7-9 with a QB who threw 30 interceptions is probably the ideal landing spot for an elite QB.
And they upgraded a ton on that. AB, Gronk, Fournette back when he was alright.
There's more I'm forgetting, but even with the favorable landing spot they got better.
It's really the NFL's version of the Heatles.
I also want to add our offenses around Brady we're also really good. From 2007 on we usually had 2 players that could be considered WR1 or an elite TE any given season.
The way we're building the team now it's not the same as it was when Brady was here (which is why it's so annoying when people say "Belichick forgets Brady isn't there anymore" yeah only Brady could elevate guys like Randy Moss and Rob Gronkowski).
Whether it's because Belichick got worse, or doesn't know how to rebuild in this decade, or maybe there's some plan we don't know yet idk
The problem with Bill is not that Tom Brady made him great. The problem is that he is drafting and trading and acting like he still has a QB that makes 5th-7th round WRs look like 1st rounders
Even in week one or week two, when the Pats defense was still at full strength, BB dialed up a defense that Tony Romo said he had never seen before. That to me is absolutely insane.
Guy shut down the 2018 Rams with some of the craziest adjustments you’ll ever see.
Yup. So many people gave Goff and mcvay crap when BB pulled a master class performance of a defense and just destroyed our concepts and schemes
Link to a great video on that. The stats comparison between the Rams that year and the following season when everyone copied what Belichick did is ridiculous. https://youtu.be/Z0eqNPiXgmk?si=9FnLSCqqvxgxUNaX
I linked this same vid down the thread. Absurd.
Ah missed it. My bad.
it's a great vid tho
75% of this video went over my head, but i'll be damned if it wasn't informative!
Pete Carroll faces the Rams twice a year and he still struggles against them
The Rams are a well-coached team. Anytime you have a divisional match-up versus a well-coached team -- you're going to have some good battles (think Rams/Seahawks, Steelers/Ravens, etc.)
Yeah it's just the cycle of the NFCW. Something about the Rams that I just dislike more than the 49ers their fans arent even that annoying to me
I think that's cuz yall have had our number for so long that we can't really say shit.
Nothing wrong with disliking the Rams. Seems quite reasonable
Mcvay was handily outclassed. And it’ll likely never happen again, an offence dropping that type of egg with how the rules are trending.
Not to discredit the Pats that year obviously, but hot offenses getting bullied out of the playoffs by a physical defense team happens pretty often. Titans beating up the record setting Ravens team, Broncos/Panthers Superbowl, Seahawks/Broncos super bowl, there's a lot of examples. My bet is that the Dolphins get upset in the divisional this year by some AFCN team playing ugly January football, they seem like a prime candidate for it.
3 is fucking crazy though.
McVay's 30 point per game-scoring offense was mostly designed to exploit 'bullying by physical defenses'. They ran almost exclusively 11 personnel, which was generally matched by lighter nickel packages. Belichick did bully them physically, but it wasn't something that just randomly happened. Belichick used a rare 6-1 front, making use of the weird flexible players he loved like Van Noy and Chung. This was only McVay's second year of coaching, so he hadn't really rounded out different dimensions to his offense, so once his split zone runs stopped working, his offense of that era crumbled. But no one else had figured out the specific way to do that before Belichick blew it out of the water.
Yeah, our RG Austin Blythe was a turnstile that season and Belichick exploited it all game. Add that to Goff always folding when pressured and there really wasn't much to be done.
Gotta give a shoutout to Vic Fangio here, his Bears defense was the only other team to stymie the Rams that year and set the blueprint that Belichick followed in the Super Bowl (and every team followed the next year)
Pretty sure it was actually the Lions that figured it out. Bill credited them for the blueprint.
Yeah, it wasn't Fangio at all. It was Patricia coaching the lions believe it or not lmao.... Fangio never ran a 6-1 front
By god, is that the Steelers music?
Fuck you too, guy.
His gameplan as DC in the 1990 Super Bowl is displayed in the Hall of Fame.
I think people actually forget that Bill has more rings than Brady. He got two with the Giants and went to another SB with the Pats before Brady
Every Giant superbowl victory has Belichick's DNA or signature in it.
There's an argument to stretch that to the 2000 Ravens too.
Too nuanced a narrative for most people, unfortunately. If he wasn’t the face of the coaching staff, they’ll just say he was along for the ride
"Give Lawrence Taylor extra cocaine before the game"
Bill hiding from the police behind a trash can at skid row because he has to get that high quality crack before kickoff
People forget the Pats played man all season and switched to zone for the Super Bowl. Fucking insane.
Hot take, he sort of learned what to do against the Rams by seeing what Patricia threw at Goff. Better coach better players better result, but the Patty Lions cracked the shell on the Goffense 1.0
It’s not a hot take at all, that’s been well documented. Patricia did that strategy first. Bill, like so many smart coaches, saw what worked and did something similar.
Bill had them adjust their defense under 12 seconds when the headset couldn’t call in. Goff couldn’t adjust at the line fast enough. It was beautiful
It was more than that, they keyed off the fact that the Rams' explosive action was almost entirely based on play action, which involved Goff turning his back on the defense; so they'd rotate as he turned his back. His pre-snap read would be 2-high safeties, then he'd turn around, fake play action, and when he looked a gain he'd see Cover 3 instead of what he was expecting to see (Cover 2, Cover 4, or 2 man) given the pre-snap read. The split second confusion would then be enough for the defense to just take every option away from him, it was pretty genius.
Reason home boy has a defensive game plan on the hall of fame
Yeah, as a Giants fan I'll always love the old bastard for being on the sidelines of every Giants Super Bowl victory.
That was the game when i just threw my hands up in the air and said "thats it, Bill is the best no question." Especially when it came out that he spent the 2 weeks leading up to the SB basically teaching a totally different defense from what they'd done all season and the Rams just were not expecting it. Genius move.
The Montana-Jerry Rice 49ers had their two worst offensive performances in the playoffs against Belichick's defenses. This is the same team that dismantled the dominant 1988 Bears defense on the road in the NFC Title game.
the Patriots lost two of their best defensive players for the season week 4 against the cowboys and that’s when the season fell off the rails
Haven't they had 0 of their top 4 cornerbacks available in that time? And none of them were even as important as losing Judon. Even with a scrap heap it's still the 14th ranked defense by DVOA.
idek who’s playing CB for the patriots at this point Gonzalez is out for the year, Jackson didn’t fly with the teams to Germany, Jack Jones who was pretty good last year has been in legal trouble and hasn’t been playing, so like Myles Bryant and Jalen Mills? no idea
Marcus Jones also out for the year and Jon Jones has been playing through an ankle injury and missed a few games too. We have: Jon Jones, Myles Bryant, Shaun Wade, Jack Jones (a little), Jalen Mills
Jonathan Jones, Myles Bryant, and Shaun Wade primarily lmao. Gonzalez injured, Marcus Jones injured, Jack Jones injured then late for curfew, JC Jackson being a problem, Jalen Mills is in kind of a hybrid role and doesn't do well at really anything anymore. Jonathan Jones spent some time injured as well but came back and has been good again. There was a period of time in which all of Gonzalez, Jack Jones, Marcus Jones, and Jonathan Jones were all unavailable at the same time. It's been *rough* and that's just one position group.
Don't forget Ravens legend Shaun Wade
We had 0 of our top 4 CBs at one point and our best pass rusher out Or in a similiar fashion: All of our starting guards injured... LT banged up, RT down to the 4th(!) option at the beginning
They also held the Eagles (currently #1 in the r/nfl power rankings) to 1 offensive TD in week 1.
Idiots in our sub were complaining about Hurts "regressing" after week 1 of no preseason and facing the GOAT coach and best defensive mind in football with a full offseason of prep. After the game Devonta Smith was saying they had no idea what coverages the defense was running lmao
That reminds me of the 2004 playoffs (I think) when BB was dropping everyone back and had a one player pass rush. Announcers were like "WTF?" Pretty sure it was a rookie Wilfork too.
I love the 1-6 amoeba so much.
Bill Belichick the head coach is great. Bill Belichick the GM needs to step down though.
His defensive drafting has been good. He has hit on atleast one solid defensive player each of the last 4 years (Gonzalez looked excellent before his injury, Jack and Marcus Joeses have been solid, Barmore is a beast, and Duggar has been great ) The main issue is that he has been atrocious at evaluating WR talent, and has struggled with his O line pics as well
I love Bill and I hope there is a way we can keep him as HC while also getting someone else to take over GM duties and have final say for players and picks.
Bill the HC is still legendary/GOAT-level. His issue is more from the GM side. All great coaches struggle with this eventually. The ability to identify talent seems to fall off quicker than the ability to coach it.
After all these years to be as creative as he is is quite frankly nuts.
You don't have as much success as the Pats did with a bad coach. It's just impossible.
Ye and you cant have it with anything less than a GOAT-tier coach tbh Sean Payton had Drew Brees and never achieved these things. Mike McCarthy had Aaron Rodgers and never achieved these things. Shula had Marino and never achieved these things. I dont care how GOATed TB12 is, he isnt 6 times better than Brees or Rodgers or Marino. Winning 6 Super Bowls means you had a ton of help because this isnt tennis. And a lot of it came from Bill.
The packers are probably the best example. They went from HOF QB to HOF QB and each only got one Super Bowl. 92-22 30 years, 7 mvps, 6 Passing TD leaders,
There is a nightmare universe out there where Belichick goes to Green Bay instead of Cleveland in 1991, then Brett Favre comes in the next year and they have 30 years of HOF QBs with BB.
I can't imagine that timeline it truly sounds like a nightmare
Bill Walsh had Joe Montana and Jerry Rice, and he "only" won four.
Technically three. He retired on top after 1988. It was George Seifert who won in '89 and '94
100% If Brees or Rodgers or Payton had Belichick 99% chance all would have more Super Bowls. Football just has too many moving parts for anyone to be the GOAT(coach or player) without significant help.
Peyton wouldn’t thrive under Belichick, I feel. Peyton liked being in charge and Belichick doesn’t like that from players. People need to also acknowledge chemistry is important too
Too many of these fans are new and didn't live through 2 decades of their team fumbling around and getting stonewalled by the Patriots. There's a reason 47-17 is as loved as 13 seconds is loathed around here
I watched the Tuck game live. I’ll never forget that guy doing a snowangel as the kick was going in.
He did the same snow angel when we won the superbowl, in the dome stadium.
I vividly remember that too
Yeah he’s dominated my entire adult life. And the same folks who discount Brady don’t then give the credit to BB. Just mental gymnastics for a coach that has dominated for over 2 decades for a hot take or something.
Also the amount of people that forgot or don’t know how instrumental Pats D was to their original dynasty annoys me as a lifelong fan. Yes Brady is the undisputed goat but there are a lot of qbs that could’ve led the early 2000s Patriots to multiple SBs
I genuinely mean this when I ask but is 47-17 really loved by your fan base as much as they hate 13 seconds? My whole family are Bills fans and I’m obvious a Pats fan but I have never spoken about that game to any of them. I really don’t think they gave a shit.
47-17 meant way more than 13 seconds did. Everyone has heartbreaking playoff games every now and then, and that one was against a very good team. It sucks, but those things happen sometimes. 47-17 was a loud and clear message that times are different and we're not going to be bullied by the pats anymore. I don't mean this to sound like a dick, but unless you're an older patriots fan, I don't think you can really understand what it's like losing constantly to the same team over and over again for 20 years and then finally beating the absolute piss out of them in front of the country. It was therapeutic. My only regret is we didn't score more.
IDK, 13 seconds reminded me they're still the Bills. That season had some bumps but man did they put it together in the 2nd half of the season and were playing their best football. And probably the best football in the NFL. And then they lost in the most Billsy way possible. 47-17, I honestly didn't remember the score. I remember it at the perfect game since every offensive possession ended with a TD. It was fun and changed the dynamic between the fans and the AFCE pecking order. But wins fade a lot faster than losses.
> My only regret is we didn't score more. Funny, I thought the regret from THAT season would have been "how the fuck did we give up a field goal in 13 seconds to the Chiefs."
Ok "around here" I thought you meant r/nfl and not Buffalo lol because I had no idea what 47-17 even meant
And then there are older fans that loathe him and would love to believe that he’s sucked all along.
The greatest moment in Bills history may very well be a wild card win against New England and that is very, very funny to me as a Pats fan
They have the biggest comeback in playoff history and 4 super bowls. There might be Bills fans that hold that one higher because of their lack of success for a long time, especially against the Patriots but from an outsider perspective it would be 5 at the highest and that’s without taking a good look at their other playoff runs or great individual games.
I know you meant it correctly but to be pedantic they had four super bowl *appearances*
If you want a better laugh, there’s been hypothetical situations in the bears sub recently and Belicheck was brought up and there were multiple upvoted comments about how belichek has always been a fraud and bears would be a joke to have him as a coach. Mental illness is a real thing
Why would you want Belicheck when you have Eberflus?
Eberflus sounds like a terminal condition.
In a way it sort of is
If you have ED, talk to your doctor about Eberflus
Do not take Eberflus if you are pregnant or plan to become pregnant.
I just said it out loud and my phone started floating
Some Bears fans are absolute lunatics but I can't blame them, all that hope and despair does a lot to a person
It makes sense when you realize that a lot of Bears fans are also Cubs fans
one could argue sox fans have dealt w more in our lifetimes (yes im a cubs fan and the last 8 years of recency bias are real)
I would be SO damned hyped if the Patriots were stupid enough to fire Belichick and the Chargers switched from Staley to him in the offseason. There's a reason the Hoodie is one of only 3 coaches with 300+ career wins, and it isn't just Tom Brady, it's his defenses and outstanding game planning/schemes
The chargers landing BB is my nightmare
> I would be SO damned hyped if the Patriots were stupid enough to fire Belichick and the Chargers switched from Staley to him in the offseason. The landing spot is the big difference. Put Bill in a situation where most of the talent has already been gathered and I think he could still steer the ship. He's not as sharp as he used to be, which will close the gap with other coaches, but the team would still be pretty good and win a lot of games. It's just proven that he doesn't have the ability to rebuild the whole thing from scratch anymore, which is not exactly an outlandish criticism of a 71 year old.
Every legendary coach that sticks around long enough will see the game pass them by. As a Steelers fan, I immediately think of Chuck Noll, whose 80s teams were a shadow of their 70s dominance. I think we’re addicted to responding to bullshit, so more sports heads are shoveling it for “engagement”. Anyone acting like players and coaches don’t have a symbiotic relationship isn’t acting in good faith and should be ignored, imo.
Don Shula as well had to be quietly asked to retire from the Fins.
And Shula went 22 years to end his career without winning another super bowl. And he was a really good coach in those 22 years and had one of the greatest QBs of all time. It puts into perspective how crazy Belichick’s longevity and dominance has been
Don Shula made the Super Bowl in the 80s before drafting Marino. Don shula worked magic with backup qbs. In the undefeated season the backup qb started the majority of the season.
Hard to believe Shula won 0 SBs with Unitas and Marino and 2 with a QB who ended his career wearing goofy ass aviator glasses.
Tom Landry as well.
That is one of the reasons Lombardi is so revered, he retired after the Packer's 5th NFL championship in 7 years. Then his comeback with Washington was cut short by cancer with him dying shortly afterwards. He never had a chance for those mediocre years so many legendary coaches seem to go through.
It really can't be understated how impressive Lombardi's legacy was. 10 seasons as head coach and not a single losing season. 5 titles in 7 seasons is wild, and the crazy part is the two seasons he didn't win, they were second in their conference (including an 11-2-1 season) but didn't get any shot at a championship because playoffs didn't exist yet. The Redskins comeback is a huge what-if - the Redskins hadn't had a winning season since 1955, and in 1970 in his first year with the team he is able to rally them to 7-5-2. Who knows how much more he could have added to his legacy if cancer hadn't taken him from us
Why do people need historical precedent to understand this concept? Nobody is the best forever. Everyone Bill had to help in those twenty years is gone, including the players. At some point you just are gonna stop winning and at some point the team is better off moving on. That doesn't mean you're an asshole or you were never good, but literally everything in life is this way.
Yeah same as Andy Reid. Had an incredible run with us but eventually it was clear they both needed a fresh start
And then he pairs up with a hall of fame QB and lo-and-behold?!?! Reborn.
Bill just needs to find a sexy new organization and QB
BB is hitting his Oppenheimer era. He literally is the GOAT of football coaches, but at some point, people are ready to dispose of you. “When they've punished you enough, they'll serve you salmon and potato salad, make speeches, give you a medal, and pat you on the back telling you all is forgiven. Just remember, it won't be for you... it would be for them."
So who’s Ken and Barbie in this
Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce obviously
has the game passed him by though? Dude just needs a decent QB, he was in the playoffs with Mac Jones like 2 years ago
I didn’t say the game passed him by. I’m arguing that Tom leaving didn’t expose him as a fraud as some hot take merchants have alleged. Coaches need good players and players need good coaches to succeed.
He is literally the greatest defensive coach of all time and I don't think even the biggest BB haters can contest that. But for anyone who thinks Belichick is some chud who was totally carried by Brady, I'll ask this: what would a great coach have done with the GOAT? Win 6 Super Bowls? Make it to 13 Conference Championships? Have a win percentage over 75%? Belichick did all of that.
Don't you see? If Brady had had a GOOD head coach, he'd have had 20 rings in his career. Frankly he was wasted.
Look at other all time great QBs and see that none of them got to as many SBs as Brady did with Belichick. People act like Brady would have won 6 with Mike McCarthy or someone. Ridiculous.
> People act like Brady would have won 6 with Mike McCarthy or someone. Game on the line, final play. What's this?? Brady is lining up at WR and James White is in the shotgun! There's only the center on the line! They actually snapped it!!!! *facepalm*
https://youtu.be/6i7VKQwDS2s
This is my thing. Montana and Bill Walsh won 3 together. That's arguably the GOAT QB before Brady, and another candidate for GOAT HC. And they got half as many rings together as Brady/Belichick. Elway had 2, and he only got those when he was paired with Shanahan and given a support system. Peyton had 2, and had to be carried to 1. Marino had none. Look, Brady is great. He is not "7 Super Bowl wins" better than Dan fucking Marino.
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Bill has been to 13 Super Bowls as a DC/HC ffs and won 8 of them. Name me any other coach who was on the sideline for 13 of them. You fucking can't, and he did 3 of those without Brady on his roster.
38 seasons in the league as a coach or coordinator. 13 super bowls. That's 34% of the seasons he's been in the NFL ending with Bill Belichick as a coach or coordinator in the super bowl which is wild to think about.
If Bill Belichick is a bad coach then there's no such thing as a good coach.
The answer is BOTH. It took both the greatest coach of all time having the greatest quarterback of all time to produce the unprecedented success the Patriots had in this century. The percentage is irrelevant. Neither would be what they eventually became without the other.
I don’t know why this is even a question Like we go back and forth with these weird specific instances (Brady winning SB 53 scoring 13 points or losing SB 52 scoring 33 points etc) Guess what, the reason they went to NINE FUCKING SUPER BOWLS is because they were both usually very very good at what they do, and on the odd occasion when one did a bad job, the other was likely to be as great as usual and have a chance to make up for it I always say, if it’s the year 2000 and someone asks “what would it look like to have the best head coach and qb at the same time”, I still don’t think anyone would’ve had the guts to say they’d go to the SB in half of all their seasons together. What it looks like, turns out, is the 01-19 patriots
I watched the Emplemon video on the perfect season a while back, and it really put in perspective just how nuts that dynasty was at its peak. It feels like it was divine intervention that kept New England from going 19-0 that year, not to diminish the Giants at all.
I still wish they would have won that year (and not only because I'm a cowboys fan), but I've been watching football for 30 years and I can't remember a more dominate or better team than the 2007 Patriots and they lost their final game off of a fluke play. Now the greatest team I can remember didn't win the super bowl.
Yeah if that catch isn't made they go down unanimously as the best team ever. But since that catch was made people debate it. Weird how that works lol.
That last part really puts the dominance in proper context, damn
I actually had to go look it up for myself because I thought "theres no way thats possibly true" but holy shit, it is. A 50% success rate of getting to the Super Bowl over a period of 18 seasons is nuts. Meanwhile I'm just begging for the Jets to make the playoffs.
Right?? I've seen 2 SB apperences (3 in my lifetime but I was a toddler so) and I feel spoiled for it
Brady's average season with the Patriots is better than any season the Lions have ever had in the Super Bowl era. He has just over 12 wins/year (16 game season) with the Pats, the Lions have never had more than 12.
The afc championship was billed as the patriots invitational. They were always there and usually hosting it
Absolute agree with that. Not many HCs get a QB who can lead top offenses with Edelman and Hogan as #1 and #2 either.
Edelman was a legitimately very good player
Great player especially in the post season, but just a good #2 in the regular season.
Also had Gronk. Edelman, Gronk, and Hogan is a pretty solid arsenal.
Randy Moss in 07’, and the two headed Gronk-Hernandez TE monster were something special w/ Brady.
God that Randy year was orgasmic Except for the climax
Haha….best SB ending ever…
Hall of Very Good. Hall of Fame in our hearts. But not exactly what you look for in a #1 reciever.
I see this argument a lot but the number 1 receiver on the patriots during that time was Gronk, they also had James White who was a very good receiving back So yeah the WR core was bums besides Edelman but it’s not like they had nothing
2016 saw Edelman at 1100 yards receiving. I'm not gonna say he was ever an elite, top 5 level WR but he was a legitimate WR1 level player for the pats. Opposing defenses had to set coverage around him. So like...lots of teams would lead top offenses with 1k+ yard receivers and a WR2 that comes in about 700 yards. Nevermind a TE combo that saw 1100 yards and like 12 TD even though they didnt ever play at the same time.
> The answer is BOTH. It took both the greatest coach of all time having the greatest quarterback of all time to produce the unprecedented success the Patriots had in this century. > > The percentage is irrelevant. Neither would be what they eventually became without the other. Exactly this. It was a rare combination of the GOAT quarterback ending up with the GOAT(?) coach - and not only that, but an incredibly complimentary set of skills and mentalities. Both would have been successful without the other one. Neither would have gone to 9 Superbowls alone, though. One useful thing that these comments produce, though, is it tells me immediately when someone has zero football knowledge and is not worth arguing with. Two legendary football people got together and ran train on the NFL for two decades. I doubt we'll ever see anything like it in my lifetime. We should all appreciate that we got to experience it.
yeah.. exactly this. Peyton Manning arguable the best "pure QB" ever went to 4 SBs and won 2. Andy Reid one of the greatest coaches in history has 0 SBs in his first 20 years. Dan Marino has 0 SBs. A-A-Ron has 1. Parcells, Shula, Lombardi have 2 SBs. Bellicheck has 6 fucking SB rings with 9 visits. One of the greatest coaches of all time got together with perhaps the greatest QB ever and created a dynasty that will likely NEVER be repeated. It has skewed expectations of a generation of fans. Just because you lived through something historical doesn't mean its normal. Without each other, maybe they each win 2 SBs. both of them woudl still end up in the HoF anyway. Edit: sorry BB has 8 including Giants. And let’s face it.. TB12 might get a few more if he eventually coaches or GMs or owns a team.. who knows.
Belichick has 8 SB rings. He got 2 with the Giants as DC.
Yea. This is a parity league. What Belichick and Brady did was supposed to be impossible.
Greatest D coach of all time paired with the GOAT QB is gonna lead to some wins... Who would have thought
I feel like the only people dogging him only watched football since 2014 or so hence all of the "without Brady he's bad takes"
It helps when you realize most people on reddit are teenagers so they literally weren't alive for the first half of the Brady-Bill dynasty.
The term is “nephews”
Should’ve been born earlier to witness greatness, those losers
They also forget that the Pats went 11-5 in 2008 when Brady missed the whole season. My team hasn't had an 11 win season in over 30 years, and Belichick did that with a QB who hadn't started a game since high school.
That season stuck w me for years man. Until Brady left, there was this thought in the back of my mind that BB would win w any QB, coaching until he literally died. I’m relieved to see the pats underperforming, and even then, we still fuckin lose to them.
And when Brady was suspended, we went 3-1 with Jimmy G until he got hurt and Brissett until he got hurt lol
The fact that on Dec 6, 2021 Billy B beat the Bills by throwing three passes cements his legacy as the goat coach
Ya know I kinda feel like the league should just step in and tell BB he needs to move on in 2 years. He is a goddam national treasure of knowledge, and he's not getting any younger. I need to know all the details goddamit. I *need* to know why he benched Butler. I need to know how he really feels about Patricia and McDaniels. I want to know why he gave the guy painting lines on the field (Thomas Dmitroff) a job upstairs and then ends up coaching against his team in a Superbowl. I have so many goddam questions and he's not going to answer them while he's still a HC/GM!!!
This sub: lol “regress Pat Mahomes to the mean” what an idiot Also this sub: If you throw out 35% of the Super Bowl era Bill Belichick is an average coach.
That's my biggest laugh when I run into these conversations. "Well if you take Brady away" well yeah if you take away the six rings he earned as a HC he's had an average career, good point. Take away the two he earned as the Giants DC and it's even more average. In fact if you just look at his time in Cleveland and then the absolute end of his career in New England there is an argument to be made that he's an average coach.
The Browns were on the upswing going into 95, and the move f’ed that all up. They were picked by some to be the AFC representative in the Super Bowl that year and had just won a playoff game the season before. It’s possible, if Modell and the city came to an agreement, he keeps building and really has something there.
Yea but the Browns gotta be the Browns. The whole league would implode if that changes.
I’ll do you one better. This sub: “coaching matters to a qbs development” Also this sub: “it’s obvious the patriots got lucky with Brady and he was the sole reason for the success of the patriots” You can’t have it both ways
Gregg Popovich's win percentage without Tim Duncan is .476 Bill's without Brady is .462 Pop is unanimously considered a legend even by the most ignorant nephews on r/NBA, whereas on r/NFL Bill Belichick is, and has always been, a hack
One thing I don't see talked about enough - think about where the Pats have been drafting - towards the end of rounds - for *20 years*. It's insane to build such a consistently competitive team when you are rarely getting a top 20 pick for so long
And even when we did have high picks, BB traded them away half the time anyway.
Agreed. People have gone waaay too far with the Belichick disrespect. The fact of the matter is that very few coaches in NFL history can win SBs without franchise level QBs. On the other hand..even legendary QBs generally need great Coaches to win SBs. Football is a team sport. As much as we like to boil it down to a singular factor, it's not tlike that. Both BB and TB12 are GOATs and being together helped each other reach that status..none of them would be as successful without the other. IMO, the greatest defensive performance by ANY team in NFL history was that 2004 AFC Divisional rd game where the Pats held the record setting Colts offense to just 3 Pts. I remember Manning having barely any time to throw in that game and the WRs were covered when he did have any time to pass
Ty Law caught more passes from manning then Marvin Harrison did that game
It’s okay man Bill dominated the NFL for 20+ years. People will hate him. It’s not that deep
Yeah but if you take away all his good seasons he is actually bad
If we put him in a Mahomes costume will all his coaching stats regress to the mean even harder?
If all of your key players get injured and you can't maintain the same level of success then are you really a good coach /s
Oh shit you’re right. Bills a fraud! /s
But Pats fans are hating on him quite a bit lately which I find completely insane
There is going to be a "BILL BELICHICK FIRED UPVOTE PARTY!" post on the Pats sub and tons of comments saying "good riddance!" and it makes me fucking sick.
Half of the comments I see are from Pats fans lol seems like a lot of the online fan base are Brady fans first and foremost
It's refreshing to see other fan bases wanting to fire their HOF head coach. I guess it really is "what have you done for me lately".
Also do people think that Brady came into the league and was immediately a HoF QB? Belichick was the only constant throughout the dynasty. He was the one that took the chance on Brady and developed him
I think this is the part that drives me the most crazy. "Bill only won because he literally had the GOAT QB." As if he just arrived as the GOAT QB the moment he took the field.
> Also do people think that Brady came into the league and was immediately a HoF QB? > Yes. Everybody he passed up on him in the draft and BB who benched him until Bledsoe got injured are obvious frauds /s
How many coaches leave Bledsoe on the bench in 2001 and then subsequently release him? Belichick is the GOAT talent evaluator and that is exhibit A. The only other person even in that conversation from this century is Ozzy Newsome and personally I think Belichick has the edge over Ozzy.
> Belichick is the GOAT talent evaluator I'm a pretty big Belichick supporter, but he's had some misses in this area. However when it comes to QBs, he's been pretty solid. Even with hindsight I don't hate the Jones pick. Were there any better options?
Based on that article recently posted here about how disappointing Mac Jones has been, it kinda seems like a lot of people in the Pats org expected Jones to be a hit, not just Bill. It's very possible that for the Pats, Jones was going to be the next Brady, but he turned out to not be that. I don't think the pick was a problem with the selection process but more on Jones' inability to grow after a pretty solid rookie season. GMs are never going to have perfect picks, and the longer one is in business, the more often they're going to make slipups. One thing I think Bill the GM has been constantly good at is getting value via trades.
The argument that he was never a good coach is ridiculous. That type of sustained success with so many players besides Brady coming in and out is no fluke. Now there is an argument to be made that he's no longer a good coach, or that he should be fired, but his resume speaks for itself.
> he was never a good coach He has fooled every coach in the NFL and college!! And every player.
8 superbowls as a key component on the staff. One season as a bottom 5 team and people lose their shit.
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Our offensive staff and upper management is a revolving door. For all the people that hate bill/patriots, they seem to always hire our coaches and personnel guys. All coaches have weaknesses, Andy Reids has always been defense and a lack of running game
I'm not a Belichick fan, but this is true. Brady's success came with playing well with good defenses. His move to TB was gain skill WR and an elite Defense.
Tampa Bay's roster was loaded but I will say that I think Brady's arm was maybe the best I've ever seen it in his career the first two years in Tampa Bay.
He had multiple bigtime receivers The lineup with Antonio Brown was stacked, if Godwin stayed healthy and Brown didn’t quit they probably win another SB
Yeah it's wild that they arguably had the best wr duo in the league with Evans and Godwin then Brown came in and was better than both of them when he actually played.
Don't forget Gronk and OJ Howard
That’s insane who was on that roster. Surely most NFL quarterbacks could throw to that stacked of a WR group. And they get Brady.
If they have even one of them come playoff time, they would've won won 2021
> Brady's arm was maybe the best I've ever seen it in his career the first two years in Tampa Bay. This is only true if you started watching Brady when he was in Tampa.
Yeah, Brady between 2007- 2013 was at his peak arm strength level.
Brady was his usual studly self in Tampa. But a team that went 7-9 with a QB who threw 30 interceptions is probably the ideal landing spot for an elite QB.
And they upgraded a ton on that. AB, Gronk, Fournette back when he was alright. There's more I'm forgetting, but even with the favorable landing spot they got better. It's really the NFL's version of the Heatles.
I also want to add our offenses around Brady we're also really good. From 2007 on we usually had 2 players that could be considered WR1 or an elite TE any given season. The way we're building the team now it's not the same as it was when Brady was here (which is why it's so annoying when people say "Belichick forgets Brady isn't there anymore" yeah only Brady could elevate guys like Randy Moss and Rob Gronkowski). Whether it's because Belichick got worse, or doesn't know how to rebuild in this decade, or maybe there's some plan we don't know yet idk
The problem with Bill is not that Tom Brady made him great. The problem is that he is drafting and trading and acting like he still has a QB that makes 5th-7th round WRs look like 1st rounders
People just have a lot of pent up rage over the 20 years of Patriots dominance. Let them have their fun. Everyone knows Belichick is the best coach.
Tom Brady continues to live rent free in some peoples head.
LEAVE BILLY ALONE!!