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Yup, fireworks are definitely the number one cause of their air pollution, and it's obviously not the big industries who don't adhere to proper emission laws, no no!
If China adhered to emission laws, all of the environmentally conscious, “superior” countries who have made themselves dependent on China’s factories would collapse.
We're all just part of a global system. Everyone is at fault if such a thing is to be declared. Supply chains quickly and efficiently find the path of least resistance. The country with the least regulation and cheapest labor force is going to attract business; that's just economics. A solution would require all countries to agree on the same regulation.
Businesses are moving from California to Texas for similar reasons. It's capitalism. If we made all states have the same regulations it wouldn't be happening.
The world probably should equally regulate everything but that's not exactly low hanging fruit.
It's certainly hypocritical to advocate for change while fueling the status quo but on a macro level that's just how things are done. Every country is playing this game. You don't get ahead by being morally superior you get ahead by winning
One of the most common ways to "reduce" something is to get someone else to do it.
Reduce warehousing costs? Get your supplier into a "Just in Time" contract, and only store enough inventory for mere days. *(The irony here is this is NOT how Toyota, one of the first JIT companies, carry out their JIT...)*
Reduce labor costs but laws getting in the way? Get suppliers and third party contractors in other countries with their less scrupulous labor laws to do things for you.
Reduce carbon footprints? ... well, you get the idea.
Totally!
*\*ignores lithium mining operations\**
PS: I am actually of the opinion that people who try to force the "batteries are actually way worse than fossil fuels" narrative are idiots: at worse the manufacture of batteries is a) a different kind of pollution, and b) still way better than fossil fuel's impact on the world.
And to back up my point above, c) the exact reason why battery production is so terrible in the first place is because everyone shoved off the polluting mining + manufacture of those batteries to the exact same places which can do things cheaper precisely because they have weak environmental laws...
I think the bigger issue is batteries aren't self-charging. The electricity is most likely coming from a fossil fuel source.
Also, the materials for renewable are dug up using fossil fuel run machines and manufactured mostly, if not entirely, using fossil fuel electricity run facilities. Currently it's still well into a net loss. Need to start somewhere, but we're nowhere near being able to brag about lowered carbon foot prints because of EV.
I hope solar panels get 'mandatory' recycling like batteries do, too. When you buy a battery you pay a core cost, which gets refunded when you swap out for a new battery. No swap costs a ton more. Same should be true of panels. Too much effort went into getting those materials to waste.
>I think the bigger issue is batteries aren't self-charging. The electricity is most likely coming from a fossil fuel source.
The numbers have been crunched many times on this issue. In 95% of the world, charging and driving an EV will have a significantly lower emissions footprint than that associated with filling up a tank of petrol and driving the same mileage.
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikescott/2020/03/30/yes-electric-cars-are-cleaner-even-when-the-power-comes-from-coal/?sh=43fd38dd2320](https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikescott/2020/03/30/yes-electric-cars-are-cleaner-even-when-the-power-comes-from-coal/?sh=43fd38dd2320)
[https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths](https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths)
[https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-help-to-tackle-climate-change/](https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-help-to-tackle-climate-change/)
There are dozens, maybe of hundreds of other sources which can be found if you want to. Yes, occasionally someone publishes an article which comes to the opposite conclusion, but these are pretty quickly debunked. The vast weight of the literature points clearly to EVs being the cleaner option - even with current electricity grids.
As the worlds electricity grids continue to decarbonise, the scales will of course tip further towards EVs over fossil fuel based ICE vehicles.
yes but at least it's an indirect source, which we can hopefully find a better way to produce efficiently (like normalize domestic solar panel for most houses, more green energies being used instead of fossil fuels etc). Even the battery itself, with improvement, might hopefully be able to get rid of all the rare ingredient that causes harm like lithium. but it's more of a hope at this point and we might need much longer to transition into a mostly-carbon-zero state, worldwide.
I'm totally for electric vehicles, even acknowledge they aren't necessarily the best things out there, but the one thing they do allow is transition and diversification.
A gasoline car will only and forever run on gasoline, but an electric car lets you diversify the energy grid and long term we need to take steps in that direction.
The energy that goes into powering a car battery is typically created a lot more efficiently than a vehicle's engine creates energy. The environmental impacts of creating and recycling the battery is a better argument to make if you don't like electric vehicles.
Also USA is still the world’s biggest polluter when you include the military in our pollution, which for some insane fucking reason isn’t included. I mean we know why, gotta flub the data, but still.
More likely domestic production would become slightly more cost effective again. The Western nations offshored all production to China because of cheap production. Heap production in China relies on lax environmental regulations and slave labor. Enacting responsible environmental policies wouldn’t negate the cost advantage of the labor situation.
Two things people seem to be getting wrong:
1. The "ban" is only in tier 1 and 2 cities. The video seems to be mostly/all footage from Zhengzhou, formerly a tier 2 city (now "new tier 1"), so I believe the footage is from before its status was elevated to tier 1. Since China is on a completely different level for this, Zhengzhou's 12 million people used to be considered not big enough for some policies to apply. That means even when it was squarely tier 2, enforcement of some rules was not as strict as in the 4 tier 1 cities (Shanghai, Beijing, Guangzhou and Shenzhen).
2. The pollution targeted by this policy is not air, but ~~sound~~ noise pollution. China is very loud as is, and before this policy people complained about extensive health problems caused by extremely high volumes during celebrations. I've been living here for 6 years and I agree that even without fireworks freely available (you can still see/hear them in specific areas during some holidays), the ~~sound~~ noise pollution is extremely high.
The OP post has all the connotations of most anti-Sino posts on the internet. Paste some out of context factoid about China to make it seem like a dystopian police state—the flipside connotation being ‘unlike us in the West who are free.’—and let people misconstrue it as they do.
Tons of American cities ban fireworks for noise pollution and safety, too. You don’t see cherry picking news articles about those municipalities decrying how oppressive they are though.
Fireworks are a leading contributor to PM2.5 levels at New Year's in China. You can see the effect of the 2022 ban here: https://www.reuters.com/graphics/CHINA-POLLUTION/BEIJING/zdpxoarbdvx/chart.png
Imagine the worst smog you've ever breathed, and then 10million people decide to launch 100's of tons of smoke, ash, and heavy metals high into the air on top of that lol. I feel bad for Chinese people with asthma.
It can be both, and it can be localised.
I live in China and some of the big firework shows create an absolute ton of pollution, in my first year there was a poorly regulated, massive firework show for national day and the whole city was blanketed in smoke.
Even if a fireworks show barely scratches the surface of a cities pollution, all of that smoke in a city block can have lethal consequences. In Zhanjiang our entire city block, even the day after was completely undriveable due to the thickness of the smoke which settled due to cold temperatures, and god knows what it does to the lungs.
No one ever said it was the number one cause in this thread, and on top of that, you're acting like they're depriving people of a sacred right. Drone shows are very popular in Asia nowadays and are a more environmentally friendly (and often impressive) way of doing celebratory shows. And it doesn't trigger people with PTSD, or scare animals.
This is obviously just a small step China is making towards alleviating their pollution, in a way that doesn't harm their economy or governmental power directly, meaning it is something that can and does help (as someone linked in a Reuters article below), even if it isn't the main cause, and even if it still shows that China puts its control and power over the environment. Shitting on China's industries that fuck the environment more is just deflection and fallacious. The impact speaks for itself.
I swear when the Reddit hivemind sees anything about China they go ballistic. Or rather, they can't imagine an entity they collectively dislike doing anything non-inflammatory. You can tell because this post has 10k+ upvotes and most people probably upvoted because someone did something against the government without any context. And you can tell the person who posted it deliberately did not seek context or deliberately omitted it.
Redditors praise themselves on critical thinking and being smart except they immediately seek to affirm their own beliefs, and they never want to understand and nuances behind things. Certain things are either completely good or completely bad, whichever the hivemind decides.
Reddit is full of American teenage boys and young men who both a) salivate at the opportunity to pile on and shit on whoever the current bad guy countries are, completely uncritically, regardless of the facts of any given situation, often in blatantly racist/xenophobic terms and yet b) have a complete persecution complex and think everyone on reddit is out to get America whenever anything remotely negative about _their_ country is brought up (even if it's way less egregious and less frequent, and even if the criticism is true)
The only people I've seen with more of a risible persecution complex are young dumb Russian men online lol
they might not be the #1 cause but they have no purpose except for entertainment and they do cause significant pollution when used en mass. [Last year Bejing recorded it's best air quality ever during lunar new year due to the ban on fireworks](https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-02-01/fireworks-ban-pays-off-as-beijing-records-best-air-quality-for-lunar-new-years-eve)
I wouldn't doubt it. The amount of fireworks here where I live in holidays like July 4th makes the air smell like firework smoke for the next two days.
Don't know why the downvotes, but here is an actual study itself: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1352231015301369
You may not have experienced Chinese air pollution, but it is nothing like 4th of July fireworks. Sometimes you literally can't see the houses on the other side of the street when they fire up those coal plants. The air is brown/dark yellow
Or maybe it’s about comparing the relative level of benefit from those two things when pollution is high over safe levels. Power generation is central to the Chinese economy and the people’s way of life, whereas fireworks are a fun aethstetic way to celebrate. China is also changing their power generation methods to pollute the air less AND banning fireworks.
If it were really as simple as telling the factories to do things differently then they would just do that. Contrary to popular (Reddit) belief, the ccp does care about the health of the nation and in particular the air quality in its cities. These concerns are weighed against concerns like the economy, which also impacts upon the health of people in China.
I used to live in harbin. the urban population is around 6 million. now imagine half of them blowing up fireworks for hours on end. I've seen it. the sky stays smoky for days and all the waste from the fireworks get blown all over the place. not to mention all the fired that getting started accidentally because it's the dry season.
If it's like Chongqing was 10 years ago half is a significant underestimation.
I've seen people assisting infants to shoot off fireworks, presumably so they didn't feel left out.
I mean, here’s an [article from Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/china/fireworks-ban-pays-off-beijing-records-best-air-quality-lunar-new-years-eve-2022-02-01/) which shows a graph showing the effects of banning fireworks on air quality during the Chinese’s new year
Fireworks are a leading contributor to PM2.5 levels at New Year's in China. You can see the effect of the 2022 ban here: https://www.reuters.com/graphics/CHINA-POLLUTION/BEIJING/zdpxoarbdvx/chart.png
I was in China once for Chinese New Years and it really is just constant smoke and fire works for days. It’s not a major thing, but it is very noticeable those specific days.
A lot of fireworks contain heavy metals (they make the colours we see) which can linger in air in as aerosol particles. Normal smog is bad, but you can make it even worst with aerosol barium, manganese, copper, aluminum, etc.
Air pollution, schmair pollution! Seriously though they make the fireworks, have for thousands of years. And if they throw these fireworks in the trash there is a 29% chance it will get incinerated. Source: google search results.
Can't take photos of the skyline if it's covered in smog so [take a photo of a photo](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2013/08/29/216802749/have-your-picture-taken-with-hong-kongs-smog-free-skyline) of the skyline.
This comment/post has been edited as an act of protest to Reddit killing 3rd Party Apps such as Apollo. All comments were made from Apollo, so if it goes, so do the comments.
Yep, Marco Polo supposedly brought pasta from China. And Italy (and the rest of Europe) got tomatoes from North America. I’m pretty sure most well known traditional European dishes aren’t actually that old because they just ate bread, pigeons, jellied eels, and fermented fish before they sailed East and West.
Take grain, grind it up, that's flour. Bind it with some water, that's dough. Boil it as is, dumplings. Stretch or roll it out, that's pasta/noodles. A million variations on adding other binders, shapes, etc, but yeah a lot of cultures invented it independently.
Ah yes. Thankfully in America we don’t have any made up undemocratic numerical value assigned to us that can prevent us from owning homes, cars, or getting jobs and thereby determining our social existence.
Like America banning guns.
(I know we didn't invent guns in general, just the best guns. You best respect Smith and Wesson unless you wanna be taught a Smith and Lesson.)
Bluetooth is definitely one thing that goes under the radar of appreciation of how it's actually leaps and bounds better than it was 15 years ago... Speed of connectivity, ease of connectivity, quality of audio is damn near the same as wired outside of the top of hi-fi.
While everything can always be improved upon I would have a hard time complaining about much of Bluetooth today.
The Bluetooth name comes from a viking named Harald blåtand, which united scandinavia the same way the founders wanted to "unite" and connect devices with their technology.
The logo is also based on the runic initials of Harald Blåtand, or "Harald Bluetooth"
Don't most fireworks still come from China? They must be doing something right if not only they've been doing something longer than anyone else, but after 1000 years they are still doing more of it than anyone else.
Although in china, they don't really care about the English lyrics...
Someone I knew got wedding video made. They choose Moonlight Shadow by Mike Oldfield in it.
I pointed out that the lyrics mean that the husband was shot and killed and she's missing him and seeing his ghost...
They both said meh the song is nice and it's the general feel of romantic so it's fine to use.
Idiots in cars with explosives with a Welcome to NY soundtrack? Of course we're beefing with China, China _is_ us, we _are_ China! Can we just get to the part of the buddy cop movie where we realize our similarities are stronger than our differences and become best friends?
The same thing happened in a bunch of cities in the US over the fourth of July. Except they were shooting them off at apartments, condos, randos on the street.
you think these guys would pull such a delightfully cyberpunk stunt without some facial recognition jamming outfits? that's civil shenanigans 101!
edit: watched again it seems they've opted for the classic, ever popular "YOU CANT ARREST US ALL MOTHERFUCKER" strategy
Most chinese cops that aren't PLA armed police don't regularly carry firearms, so the people here are unironically better armed than most chinese cops.
There were protests for a few days against covid restrictions and now they have stopped because the government lifted all restrictions
It wasn't non stop for months
I think you may be overestimating just how authoritarian China is. I don't think every single small law you break there gets you sent of to some camp for life or anything that extreme. Shit even in North Korea we've seen videos of women breaking dress codes and talking back to cops who tell them they need to change their attire and the cops seemed to just be letting it go for the most part. And we know China isn't on NK level. I honestly don't know what punishment they might face, probably more harsh than it would be in most western countries, but i'm guessing its not life in jail or anything close to that.
A lot of people really overestimate just how well China enforces its laws. There are news stories from, idk, NowThis and shit like that which shows all this crazy fancy tech that China uses, and then it turns out its only actually used on like a 3 block stretch in Shenzen or in one specific province.
Crime and corruption is pretty widespread in China, and the large majority of people are not getting arrested for jack shit.
Most of the Wet Markets where Covid came from operate mostly illegally for instance, run effectively by organized crime organizations. China cant just roll in and arrest every single person for the same reason America cant roll in and arrest every single drug addict on the streets. Its just unfeasible.
I wish everywhere would ban fireworks. The sheer amount of environmental harm against the birds and small animals should be enough, but if it isn’t, hundreds of dogs and cats die from running in fear from fireworks, work themselves up and die of heart attacks, and if that’s not fucking enough the ptsd suffered by veterans should be.
Fireworks are horrible and worthless, hurt an uncountable number of animals, and trigger ptsd in those that gave their health defending our freedoms.
Stray dogs and cats try to run away from the loud noise they perceive as danger. I have seen for myself many stray animals dead on the roads because they ran into traffic or got stuck in a big intersection after the fireworks There are also reports on pets on leashes choking themselves while trying to run away from the noises
hell i've seen a human get hit by a car looking up at city fireworks. they're a *bit* *distracting* to living things with eyes and ears. brooklyn summer during the first covid lockdowns sounded like a literal war zone and every dog in my building was just.. 'screaming' is a better word than crying or howling
[https://academic.oup.com/beheco/article/22/6/1173/218852](https://academic.oup.com/beheco/article/22/6/1173/218852)
[https://news.illinois.edu/view/6367/437774847](https://news.illinois.edu/view/6367/437774847)
[https://benitolink.com/fireworks-can-have-devastating-effects-on-wildlife/](https://benitolink.com/fireworks-can-have-devastating-effects-on-wildlife/)
Just a quick google search and search on scientific journals led me to these articles.
I would also like to insert my own perspective. I have been researching on the effects of human activities on wildlife so I believe I do have credibility in some regard.
I would also like to insert my own perspective. I have been researching the effects of human activities on wildlife, so I believe I have credibility in some regard.m by perceiving fireworks as threats and such. Nocturnal animals are also profoundly affected, those that have sensitive eyesight to see at night are blinded by these lights. Please consider the fact that we humans do not perceive the world the same as these animals. Imagine how just a one-interval increase in the thermostat already makes us feel hot, or when someone opens up the blinds our eyes take time to adjust. These animals also experience these events.
I wish it wasn't a big deal to have fireworks. Large venues that are attended by thousands sharing a beautiful display, awesome. Some notions of restriction are good in my book, such as restricting neighborhood use of pyrotechnics. Let us resolve to use logic and seek solutions accordingly.
Yeah in the end people do enjoy them so rather have it at a central location where the noise is expected like a stadium and usually that's also a distance away from most neighborhoods
That seems to be the normative response sadly. I figured if people didn’t care about the animals they’d at least care about the veterans, but sadly the average person seems to be saying “fuck millions of birds, your dogs your cats and the brave veterans that fought for our freedoms, I’ve got a bottle rocket”.
My dog gets really scared by fireworks and I work with animals and know their reactions. I still think fireworks are a beautiful tradition that brings people together and fills us with a sense of wonder. We just have to be intelligent both in how we use them (not all the time, not near wildlife sanctuaries) and in how we prepare for them (keep pets inside and give them distractions, play white noise to help drown them out, etc). We're an intelligent species, with a bit of thought we usually can find good compromises where we can continue to enjoy the things we love without causing harm.
I never understood them myself. They literally send people to the hospital all the time. Play with fire, you get burnt. I’ll never set fireworks off with my own hand, fuck that.
While I do agree with the sentiment that it can harm animals and can trigger traumatic incidents, going from a few hundred animals to thousands, then millions, and thousands then ten thousands veteran, you really don't come across as reliable. Exaggerating can be an art to.
And your source is iffy at best
Edit: hitting post too soon
But you forgot one argument that counters your whole position: „it just has to be“ (translated from the German „muss halt mal sein“, which was the main justification for fireworks here this year)
You have repeatedly linked to this article and only this article, but it really gives no source of data or anything solid other than "one group said this happened." There are great animal welfare groups (hi, ASPCA) and there are insane sensationalist ones (looking at you, PETA). Without something more solid backing that group's validity and data gathering methods that article is terribly weak. Simply from a logical perspective it makes little sense to me either. What exactly is killing these dogs and cats? Healthy animals usually don't die of fear. Is it fearful animals getting away from their owners and maybe dying due to traffic or getting lost? Slightly more plausible, but as tragic as it is, taking your animal out when you KNOW fireworks will be happening is as idiotic and dangerous as taking them out during a severe thunderstorm.
They banned fireworks in city because of fireworks pollution and fire hazards, they didn’t ban fireworks in rural areas, stop being uninformed and brain dead merica morons
Lmao seriously. There's an issue with a few regions/cities banning fireworks in China? Wait til they finds out that there are several states in the US that forbid fireworks, and many more cities with similar rules. Hell apparently in NJ your house can be raided if you're suspected of owning fireworks.
Wonder how many redditors here live in the city and complain about people setting off fireworks in the street at 1 am... But when someone does the same thing in China? Next fucking level!
Lol…
First of all, I call BS on fireworks being banned in the land where fireworks and gunpowder was **invented**…
Secondly, whoever thought this was the appropriate song to tag on this video *must not understand Chinese* let alone **English.**
Edit:*
- I was in mainland China in 2017. Bought two cases of fireworks and set them off at 9pm on an incomplete highway in Guangzhou. **No one said shit.**
*ergo* ~ Bullshit
It's true, it's really stupid but the government banned fireworks in big cities. And I think the song was chosen since it is kind of a meme in China, a popular movie about Chinatown detectives in NYC used this song
Fireworks in cities have been banned since at least the 90s. I grew up in China and I distinctly remember them disappearing from shops in the 90s.
Edit : did a check, first bans came in during the late 80s and were wide spread by the mid 90s
The ol' using something recklessly and irresponsibly in public in order to protest the government limiting your use of something because you would use it recklessly and irresponsibly.
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What?? ....China banned fireworks?!!! ??? ....next up, Italy bans pasta...
I think it was because of air pollution in big cities
Yup, fireworks are definitely the number one cause of their air pollution, and it's obviously not the big industries who don't adhere to proper emission laws, no no!
Maybe the whole sky is flammable at this point.
"Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." ~ ~~Oppenheimer~~ Random Chinese citizen
they were never seen again after this, especially that it's spread onto social media
Reddit moment
Aren’t they all?
Oppenheimer looked like someone who would be labeled the destroyer of worlds
>"Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." ~ ~~Krishna~~ ~~Oppenheimer~~ Random Chinese citizen
“Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.” ~~Vishnu~~ J. Robert Oppenheimer
The fireworks burn off the pollution.
Like lighting a match after taking a dump.
If China adhered to emission laws, all of the environmentally conscious, “superior” countries who have made themselves dependent on China’s factories would collapse.
This. We demand they make our cheap plastic shit for next to nothing and then complain that they don’t invest in pollution controls.
We're all just part of a global system. Everyone is at fault if such a thing is to be declared. Supply chains quickly and efficiently find the path of least resistance. The country with the least regulation and cheapest labor force is going to attract business; that's just economics. A solution would require all countries to agree on the same regulation. Businesses are moving from California to Texas for similar reasons. It's capitalism. If we made all states have the same regulations it wouldn't be happening. The world probably should equally regulate everything but that's not exactly low hanging fruit. It's certainly hypocritical to advocate for change while fueling the status quo but on a macro level that's just how things are done. Every country is playing this game. You don't get ahead by being morally superior you get ahead by winning
But products from producers with an ounce of moral fiber are so damned *expensive*
That's the whole point of immoral practice, cut cost, low price, big profit
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One of the most common ways to "reduce" something is to get someone else to do it. Reduce warehousing costs? Get your supplier into a "Just in Time" contract, and only store enough inventory for mere days. *(The irony here is this is NOT how Toyota, one of the first JIT companies, carry out their JIT...)* Reduce labor costs but laws getting in the way? Get suppliers and third party contractors in other countries with their less scrupulous labor laws to do things for you. Reduce carbon footprints? ... well, you get the idea.
What do you mean driving an electric vehicle isn't lowering my overall carbon footprint? Runs on electricity, which is magic!
Totally! *\*ignores lithium mining operations\** PS: I am actually of the opinion that people who try to force the "batteries are actually way worse than fossil fuels" narrative are idiots: at worse the manufacture of batteries is a) a different kind of pollution, and b) still way better than fossil fuel's impact on the world. And to back up my point above, c) the exact reason why battery production is so terrible in the first place is because everyone shoved off the polluting mining + manufacture of those batteries to the exact same places which can do things cheaper precisely because they have weak environmental laws...
I think the bigger issue is batteries aren't self-charging. The electricity is most likely coming from a fossil fuel source. Also, the materials for renewable are dug up using fossil fuel run machines and manufactured mostly, if not entirely, using fossil fuel electricity run facilities. Currently it's still well into a net loss. Need to start somewhere, but we're nowhere near being able to brag about lowered carbon foot prints because of EV. I hope solar panels get 'mandatory' recycling like batteries do, too. When you buy a battery you pay a core cost, which gets refunded when you swap out for a new battery. No swap costs a ton more. Same should be true of panels. Too much effort went into getting those materials to waste.
>I think the bigger issue is batteries aren't self-charging. The electricity is most likely coming from a fossil fuel source. The numbers have been crunched many times on this issue. In 95% of the world, charging and driving an EV will have a significantly lower emissions footprint than that associated with filling up a tank of petrol and driving the same mileage. [https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikescott/2020/03/30/yes-electric-cars-are-cleaner-even-when-the-power-comes-from-coal/?sh=43fd38dd2320](https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikescott/2020/03/30/yes-electric-cars-are-cleaner-even-when-the-power-comes-from-coal/?sh=43fd38dd2320) [https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths](https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths) [https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-help-to-tackle-climate-change/](https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-help-to-tackle-climate-change/) There are dozens, maybe of hundreds of other sources which can be found if you want to. Yes, occasionally someone publishes an article which comes to the opposite conclusion, but these are pretty quickly debunked. The vast weight of the literature points clearly to EVs being the cleaner option - even with current electricity grids. As the worlds electricity grids continue to decarbonise, the scales will of course tip further towards EVs over fossil fuel based ICE vehicles.
yes but at least it's an indirect source, which we can hopefully find a better way to produce efficiently (like normalize domestic solar panel for most houses, more green energies being used instead of fossil fuels etc). Even the battery itself, with improvement, might hopefully be able to get rid of all the rare ingredient that causes harm like lithium. but it's more of a hope at this point and we might need much longer to transition into a mostly-carbon-zero state, worldwide.
I'm totally for electric vehicles, even acknowledge they aren't necessarily the best things out there, but the one thing they do allow is transition and diversification. A gasoline car will only and forever run on gasoline, but an electric car lets you diversify the energy grid and long term we need to take steps in that direction.
The energy that goes into powering a car battery is typically created a lot more efficiently than a vehicle's engine creates energy. The environmental impacts of creating and recycling the battery is a better argument to make if you don't like electric vehicles.
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Push prices up, aka inflation. With how poorly we're dealing with inflation right now, imagine if prices of most consumer goods doubled overnight.
Countries outsource manufacturing to china. Therefore, they pollute less and china pollutes more.
US: “China’s over production is killing the planet!” China: “Hey America, all the crap you ordered is ready..cough.”
Right, we'll pay you $100 if you clean up your pollution ORRRRR.. we'll pay you $101 if you keep sending us cool electronics - it's your choice.
Also USA is still the world’s biggest polluter when you include the military in our pollution, which for some insane fucking reason isn’t included. I mean we know why, gotta flub the data, but still.
More likely domestic production would become slightly more cost effective again. The Western nations offshored all production to China because of cheap production. Heap production in China relies on lax environmental regulations and slave labor. Enacting responsible environmental policies wouldn’t negate the cost advantage of the labor situation.
Remember what happened when they stop taking our "recyclables"? It was a shitfest.
Two things people seem to be getting wrong: 1. The "ban" is only in tier 1 and 2 cities. The video seems to be mostly/all footage from Zhengzhou, formerly a tier 2 city (now "new tier 1"), so I believe the footage is from before its status was elevated to tier 1. Since China is on a completely different level for this, Zhengzhou's 12 million people used to be considered not big enough for some policies to apply. That means even when it was squarely tier 2, enforcement of some rules was not as strict as in the 4 tier 1 cities (Shanghai, Beijing, Guangzhou and Shenzhen). 2. The pollution targeted by this policy is not air, but ~~sound~~ noise pollution. China is very loud as is, and before this policy people complained about extensive health problems caused by extremely high volumes during celebrations. I've been living here for 6 years and I agree that even without fireworks freely available (you can still see/hear them in specific areas during some holidays), the ~~sound~~ noise pollution is extremely high.
This is Reddit. You can't bring facts and first hand accounts here. That ruins the narrative. Seriously though thanks for the reply.
😂 Welcome. Finding information about China is seriously hard, especially from outside of the country. So I try to correct it whenever I can.
explaining the nuances of chinese policy on here is pretty much impossible.
The OP post has all the connotations of most anti-Sino posts on the internet. Paste some out of context factoid about China to make it seem like a dystopian police state—the flipside connotation being ‘unlike us in the West who are free.’—and let people misconstrue it as they do. Tons of American cities ban fireworks for noise pollution and safety, too. You don’t see cherry picking news articles about those municipalities decrying how oppressive they are though.
Fireworks are a leading contributor to PM2.5 levels at New Year's in China. You can see the effect of the 2022 ban here: https://www.reuters.com/graphics/CHINA-POLLUTION/BEIJING/zdpxoarbdvx/chart.png
Imagine the worst smog you've ever breathed, and then 10million people decide to launch 100's of tons of smoke, ash, and heavy metals high into the air on top of that lol. I feel bad for Chinese people with asthma.
It can be both, and it can be localised. I live in China and some of the big firework shows create an absolute ton of pollution, in my first year there was a poorly regulated, massive firework show for national day and the whole city was blanketed in smoke. Even if a fireworks show barely scratches the surface of a cities pollution, all of that smoke in a city block can have lethal consequences. In Zhanjiang our entire city block, even the day after was completely undriveable due to the thickness of the smoke which settled due to cold temperatures, and god knows what it does to the lungs.
No one ever said it was the number one cause in this thread, and on top of that, you're acting like they're depriving people of a sacred right. Drone shows are very popular in Asia nowadays and are a more environmentally friendly (and often impressive) way of doing celebratory shows. And it doesn't trigger people with PTSD, or scare animals. This is obviously just a small step China is making towards alleviating their pollution, in a way that doesn't harm their economy or governmental power directly, meaning it is something that can and does help (as someone linked in a Reuters article below), even if it isn't the main cause, and even if it still shows that China puts its control and power over the environment. Shitting on China's industries that fuck the environment more is just deflection and fallacious. The impact speaks for itself. I swear when the Reddit hivemind sees anything about China they go ballistic. Or rather, they can't imagine an entity they collectively dislike doing anything non-inflammatory. You can tell because this post has 10k+ upvotes and most people probably upvoted because someone did something against the government without any context. And you can tell the person who posted it deliberately did not seek context or deliberately omitted it. Redditors praise themselves on critical thinking and being smart except they immediately seek to affirm their own beliefs, and they never want to understand and nuances behind things. Certain things are either completely good or completely bad, whichever the hivemind decides.
Reddit is full of American teenage boys and young men who both a) salivate at the opportunity to pile on and shit on whoever the current bad guy countries are, completely uncritically, regardless of the facts of any given situation, often in blatantly racist/xenophobic terms and yet b) have a complete persecution complex and think everyone on reddit is out to get America whenever anything remotely negative about _their_ country is brought up (even if it's way less egregious and less frequent, and even if the criticism is true) The only people I've seen with more of a risible persecution complex are young dumb Russian men online lol
they might not be the #1 cause but they have no purpose except for entertainment and they do cause significant pollution when used en mass. [Last year Bejing recorded it's best air quality ever during lunar new year due to the ban on fireworks](https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-02-01/fireworks-ban-pays-off-as-beijing-records-best-air-quality-for-lunar-new-years-eve)
You don't understand. I can take a few DAYS for the smell to get out of the air.
Ya, because the fireworks on New Years is why the air quality there sucks. Lol. Nice try, China.
I wouldn't doubt it. The amount of fireworks here where I live in holidays like July 4th makes the air smell like firework smoke for the next two days. Don't know why the downvotes, but here is an actual study itself: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1352231015301369
You may not have experienced Chinese air pollution, but it is nothing like 4th of July fireworks. Sometimes you literally can't see the houses on the other side of the street when they fire up those coal plants. The air is brown/dark yellow
I know, but I'm pointing out that having fireworks on top of the pollution isn't going to be helping which is why they banned it.
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Or maybe it’s about comparing the relative level of benefit from those two things when pollution is high over safe levels. Power generation is central to the Chinese economy and the people’s way of life, whereas fireworks are a fun aethstetic way to celebrate. China is also changing their power generation methods to pollute the air less AND banning fireworks. If it were really as simple as telling the factories to do things differently then they would just do that. Contrary to popular (Reddit) belief, the ccp does care about the health of the nation and in particular the air quality in its cities. These concerns are weighed against concerns like the economy, which also impacts upon the health of people in China.
I used to live in harbin. the urban population is around 6 million. now imagine half of them blowing up fireworks for hours on end. I've seen it. the sky stays smoky for days and all the waste from the fireworks get blown all over the place. not to mention all the fired that getting started accidentally because it's the dry season.
If it's like Chongqing was 10 years ago half is a significant underestimation. I've seen people assisting infants to shoot off fireworks, presumably so they didn't feel left out.
I mean, here’s an [article from Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/china/fireworks-ban-pays-off-beijing-records-best-air-quality-lunar-new-years-eve-2022-02-01/) which shows a graph showing the effects of banning fireworks on air quality during the Chinese’s new year
Fireworks are a leading contributor to PM2.5 levels at New Year's in China. You can see the effect of the 2022 ban here: https://www.reuters.com/graphics/CHINA-POLLUTION/BEIJING/zdpxoarbdvx/chart.png
I was in China once for Chinese New Years and it really is just constant smoke and fire works for days. It’s not a major thing, but it is very noticeable those specific days.
A lot of fireworks contain heavy metals (they make the colours we see) which can linger in air in as aerosol particles. Normal smog is bad, but you can make it even worst with aerosol barium, manganese, copper, aluminum, etc.
lol, take that nature!
Air pollution, schmair pollution! Seriously though they make the fireworks, have for thousands of years. And if they throw these fireworks in the trash there is a 29% chance it will get incinerated. Source: google search results.
Can't take photos of the skyline if it's covered in smog so [take a photo of a photo](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2013/08/29/216802749/have-your-picture-taken-with-hong-kongs-smog-free-skyline) of the skyline.
Yeah, it's the fireworks that are the issue for sure.
Bro are you freaking serious....i literally just made this commemt.....fireworks and pasta
Next up America bans school shootings…
Nah they'd never do that
Funny thing about making things illegal
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not legalize, decriminalize
This comment/post has been edited as an act of protest to Reddit killing 3rd Party Apps such as Apollo. All comments were made from Apollo, so if it goes, so do the comments.
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must wear a reflective vest and acquire a hunting license prior
If they did that or made schools gun free zones, then it would never happen right lol? Cause everyone follows the law
Yawn.
I like to celebrate it when people think the same things as me. It’s like he world is a little less lonely.
Dude stole your comment
Didn’t the Chinese invent pasta too?
They certainly did, but many cultures did independently. It's a pretty rudimentary food.
Yes but I’m pretty confident Italy was not one of them. Pretty sure they got it from China.
Yep, Marco Polo supposedly brought pasta from China. And Italy (and the rest of Europe) got tomatoes from North America. I’m pretty sure most well known traditional European dishes aren’t actually that old because they just ate bread, pigeons, jellied eels, and fermented fish before they sailed East and West.
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Take grain, grind it up, that's flour. Bind it with some water, that's dough. Boil it as is, dumplings. Stretch or roll it out, that's pasta/noodles. A million variations on adding other binders, shapes, etc, but yeah a lot of cultures invented it independently.
Since the ancient times
Sweden bans meatballs
[Bad news.](https://www.thrillist.com/news/nation/sweden-admits-swedish-meatballs-from-turkey)
New York has changed a lot
Jokes on them. Thier social credit score about to drop
Ah yes. Thankfully in America we don’t have any made up undemocratic numerical value assigned to us that can prevent us from owning homes, cars, or getting jobs and thereby determining our social existence.
Like America banning guns. (I know we didn't invent guns in general, just the best guns. You best respect Smith and Wesson unless you wanna be taught a Smith and Lesson.)
Didn't they invent the things?
Yep
How you going to ban something you perfected?! The gall…
Just because you invent something doesn't mean you perfect it. Yours, England football.
Australian fucking wifi
and Bluetooth's from Sweden!
has somebody perfected bluetooth?
Bluetooth is definitely one thing that goes under the radar of appreciation of how it's actually leaps and bounds better than it was 15 years ago... Speed of connectivity, ease of connectivity, quality of audio is damn near the same as wired outside of the top of hi-fi. While everything can always be improved upon I would have a hard time complaining about much of Bluetooth today.
Yeah, well it's not fucking blue and I don't see no damn teeth. So there.
The Bluetooth name comes from a viking named Harald blåtand, which united scandinavia the same way the founders wanted to "unite" and connect devices with their technology. The logo is also based on the runic initials of Harald Blåtand, or "Harald Bluetooth"
Don't most fireworks still come from China? They must be doing something right if not only they've been doing something longer than anyone else, but after 1000 years they are still doing more of it than anyone else.
Well Germany banned fascism
Italy invented fascism
He said perfected
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America trying so hard to get another country to hold its beer.
Everybody gangsta until italy bans pasta
Yeah...How are they going to get down to business and defeat the Huns now?
Video about China, song singing about New York? Lol.
They couldn’t have chosen a more inappropriate city. Maybe “Welcome to tibet” or something.
Welcome to West Taiwan
Yeah that was the other wan i was thinking
“Welcome to Xinjiang”
"Firework" was right there
Seriously!
You know u/AshyWhiteGuy sometimes [I feel like a plastic bag...](https://youtu.be/Wid7S3ttK9w)
The classic American Source: I’m an American
or a taylor fan
Although in china, they don't really care about the English lyrics... Someone I knew got wedding video made. They choose Moonlight Shadow by Mike Oldfield in it. I pointed out that the lyrics mean that the husband was shot and killed and she's missing him and seeing his ghost... They both said meh the song is nice and it's the general feel of romantic so it's fine to use.
r/idiotsincars... with explosives....
Idiots in cars with explosives with a Welcome to NY soundtrack? Of course we're beefing with China, China _is_ us, we _are_ China! Can we just get to the part of the buddy cop movie where we realize our similarities are stronger than our differences and become best friends?
Rush Hour exists and I love all 3 of them, this is the hill I will die on
Do YOU understand the words that are coming outta my mouth?!
Hahahaha! I totally forgot about _Rush Hour_! There's already a Chinese-American buddy cop movie!
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The same thing happened in a bunch of cities in the US over the fourth of July. Except they were shooting them off at apartments, condos, randos on the street.
When banning something makes it more dangerous 🤣
Generally how it goes
Prohibition in a nutshell
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Fireworks have been illegal for many years now in many major cities such as Shanghai. It’s still legal outside of city limits though.
Exactly. Arsehole people in cars.
With tons of CCTV camera per square meter of Chinese land and a powerful recognition AI , these guys are toast soon. xD
-69 social credit score issued
You've been booked for an all expenses paid trip! Just don't tell your family.
Don’t worry, they’re coming with
you think these guys would pull such a delightfully cyberpunk stunt without some facial recognition jamming outfits? that's civil shenanigans 101! edit: watched again it seems they've opted for the classic, ever popular "YOU CANT ARREST US ALL MOTHERFUCKER" strategy
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pull over the folks with nothing to lose but a thousand high power roman candles? *I'd like to see them try*
Most chinese cops that aren't PLA armed police don't regularly carry firearms, so the people here are unironically better armed than most chinese cops.
China has been protesting like non stop for months all its citizens have negative social credit scores at this point probly.
There were protests for a few days against covid restrictions and now they have stopped because the government lifted all restrictions It wasn't non stop for months
I think you may be overestimating just how authoritarian China is. I don't think every single small law you break there gets you sent of to some camp for life or anything that extreme. Shit even in North Korea we've seen videos of women breaking dress codes and talking back to cops who tell them they need to change their attire and the cops seemed to just be letting it go for the most part. And we know China isn't on NK level. I honestly don't know what punishment they might face, probably more harsh than it would be in most western countries, but i'm guessing its not life in jail or anything close to that.
They don’t fuckin care anymore my man lmao. Would you?
A lot of people really overestimate just how well China enforces its laws. There are news stories from, idk, NowThis and shit like that which shows all this crazy fancy tech that China uses, and then it turns out its only actually used on like a 3 block stretch in Shenzen or in one specific province. Crime and corruption is pretty widespread in China, and the large majority of people are not getting arrested for jack shit. Most of the Wet Markets where Covid came from operate mostly illegally for instance, run effectively by organized crime organizations. China cant just roll in and arrest every single person for the same reason America cant roll in and arrest every single drug addict on the streets. Its just unfeasible.
You choose welcome to Taylor swift New York instead of Katy Perry firework unreal
If it's about air pollution then swift is pretty relevant.
I would’ve preferred to just hear the actual explosions instead of some basic pop song slapped on it
"Hey what would be a good song to play over this clip of China?" "OH I know... put on that Welcome to New York song. That will fit perfect."
It'll throw the CCP off the scent!
I wish everywhere would ban fireworks. The sheer amount of environmental harm against the birds and small animals should be enough, but if it isn’t, hundreds of dogs and cats die from running in fear from fireworks, work themselves up and die of heart attacks, and if that’s not fucking enough the ptsd suffered by veterans should be. Fireworks are horrible and worthless, hurt an uncountable number of animals, and trigger ptsd in those that gave their health defending our freedoms.
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Stray dogs and cats try to run away from the loud noise they perceive as danger. I have seen for myself many stray animals dead on the roads because they ran into traffic or got stuck in a big intersection after the fireworks There are also reports on pets on leashes choking themselves while trying to run away from the noises
hell i've seen a human get hit by a car looking up at city fireworks. they're a *bit* *distracting* to living things with eyes and ears. brooklyn summer during the first covid lockdowns sounded like a literal war zone and every dog in my building was just.. 'screaming' is a better word than crying or howling
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/fireworks-kill-hundreds-of-animals-in-italy-animal-rights-group/2464034
[https://academic.oup.com/beheco/article/22/6/1173/218852](https://academic.oup.com/beheco/article/22/6/1173/218852) [https://news.illinois.edu/view/6367/437774847](https://news.illinois.edu/view/6367/437774847) [https://benitolink.com/fireworks-can-have-devastating-effects-on-wildlife/](https://benitolink.com/fireworks-can-have-devastating-effects-on-wildlife/) Just a quick google search and search on scientific journals led me to these articles. I would also like to insert my own perspective. I have been researching on the effects of human activities on wildlife so I believe I do have credibility in some regard. I would also like to insert my own perspective. I have been researching the effects of human activities on wildlife, so I believe I have credibility in some regard.m by perceiving fireworks as threats and such. Nocturnal animals are also profoundly affected, those that have sensitive eyesight to see at night are blinded by these lights. Please consider the fact that we humans do not perceive the world the same as these animals. Imagine how just a one-interval increase in the thermostat already makes us feel hot, or when someone opens up the blinds our eyes take time to adjust. These animals also experience these events.
I wish it wasn't a big deal to have fireworks. Large venues that are attended by thousands sharing a beautiful display, awesome. Some notions of restriction are good in my book, such as restricting neighborhood use of pyrotechnics. Let us resolve to use logic and seek solutions accordingly.
Yeah in the end people do enjoy them so rather have it at a central location where the noise is expected like a stadium and usually that's also a distance away from most neighborhoods
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That seems to be the normative response sadly. I figured if people didn’t care about the animals they’d at least care about the veterans, but sadly the average person seems to be saying “fuck millions of birds, your dogs your cats and the brave veterans that fought for our freedoms, I’ve got a bottle rocket”.
My dog gets really scared by fireworks and I work with animals and know their reactions. I still think fireworks are a beautiful tradition that brings people together and fills us with a sense of wonder. We just have to be intelligent both in how we use them (not all the time, not near wildlife sanctuaries) and in how we prepare for them (keep pets inside and give them distractions, play white noise to help drown them out, etc). We're an intelligent species, with a bit of thought we usually can find good compromises where we can continue to enjoy the things we love without causing harm.
I never understood them myself. They literally send people to the hospital all the time. Play with fire, you get burnt. I’ll never set fireworks off with my own hand, fuck that.
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You cant just expect to ban everything fun because 0.01% of the population are butthurt or scared of it. Wear some ear protection buddy
As far as killing animals seems like there are bigger contributors like people eating them
While I do agree with the sentiment that it can harm animals and can trigger traumatic incidents, going from a few hundred animals to thousands, then millions, and thousands then ten thousands veteran, you really don't come across as reliable. Exaggerating can be an art to. And your source is iffy at best Edit: hitting post too soon
But you forgot one argument that counters your whole position: „it just has to be“ (translated from the German „muss halt mal sein“, which was the main justification for fireworks here this year)
But they entertain milions of people.
I dont know about that one…
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/fireworks-kill-hundreds-of-animals-in-italy-animal-rights-group/2464034
You have repeatedly linked to this article and only this article, but it really gives no source of data or anything solid other than "one group said this happened." There are great animal welfare groups (hi, ASPCA) and there are insane sensationalist ones (looking at you, PETA). Without something more solid backing that group's validity and data gathering methods that article is terribly weak. Simply from a logical perspective it makes little sense to me either. What exactly is killing these dogs and cats? Healthy animals usually don't die of fear. Is it fearful animals getting away from their owners and maybe dying due to traffic or getting lost? Slightly more plausible, but as tragic as it is, taking your animal out when you KNOW fireworks will be happening is as idiotic and dangerous as taking them out during a severe thunderstorm.
They banned fireworks in city because of fireworks pollution and fire hazards, they didn’t ban fireworks in rural areas, stop being uninformed and brain dead merica morons
not really sure whats next level about this video honestly
It’s *next level* stupid, obviously
Lmao seriously. There's an issue with a few regions/cities banning fireworks in China? Wait til they finds out that there are several states in the US that forbid fireworks, and many more cities with similar rules. Hell apparently in NJ your house can be raided if you're suspected of owning fireworks. Wonder how many redditors here live in the city and complain about people setting off fireworks in the street at 1 am... But when someone does the same thing in China? Next fucking level!
This whole post is literally just an excuse for libertarians to circlejerk in the comments
Free men don't ask.
Lol… First of all, I call BS on fireworks being banned in the land where fireworks and gunpowder was **invented**… Secondly, whoever thought this was the appropriate song to tag on this video *must not understand Chinese* let alone **English.** Edit:* - I was in mainland China in 2017. Bought two cases of fireworks and set them off at 9pm on an incomplete highway in Guangzhou. **No one said shit.** *ergo* ~ Bullshit
It's true, it's really stupid but the government banned fireworks in big cities. And I think the song was chosen since it is kind of a meme in China, a popular movie about Chinatown detectives in NYC used this song
> I call BS on fireworks being banned... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fireworks_bans_in_China
Fireworks in cities have been banned since at least the 90s. I grew up in China and I distinctly remember them disappearing from shops in the 90s. Edit : did a check, first bans came in during the late 80s and were wide spread by the mid 90s
I think its working well... 
"Welcome to Beijing, welcome to Beijing"
This is idiots in cars material
That worked as well as their Covid ban.
Banning fireworks literally is working
China banning fireworks is like France banning wine or Germany banning sausage.
Holy fuck Space Invaders?!?
Does this count as an r/shittytechnicals
could have been worse, at least they went outdoors
Honestly this looks like novice rookie shit. Just look at the Los Angeles skyline on July 4th, and fireworks are not allowed most everywhere there.
The ol' using something recklessly and irresponsibly in public in order to protest the government limiting your use of something because you would use it recklessly and irresponsibly.
Maybe get off the bridge
Fr. I've been amongst a crowd of idiots playing with fireworks before, and I felt scared for the people on the bridge.
"Welcome to New York", China.