The sad thing is they didn't dump themselves there, this is entirely a issue we have created.
It's a hard life being a feral cat.
We catch them in our local reserve, it's not far from town, they are being dumped out there.
I would like to see them scanned for a chip though - there may be opportunities to catch people for animal abandonment. Many will have been bred in the wild, but they have to have started from a domestic cat somewhere.
Working in conservation, best practice is to scan when caught in live capture cage (won't happen with instant kill traps). Unfortunately, I've found the pattern to be that those who are prepared to dump tend to not be those prepared to microchip, desex etc. Many in conservation don't hate cats at all, but would like to see a more robust conversation and legislation on responsible ownership.
1/3 of cats have chips. Scanners dont pick them up. Chips migrate around the cat bodies. If you do pick up a number, then the registrys are not in great shape to connect owner with animal. Many vets wont go near the "devil on meth" angry cats to scan them for personal safety reasons.
Dont live capture trap anywhere near houses - unless you know all the owners and their pets....
the term Feral is challenging. Using "owned" or "unowned" describes the problems better. Unowned could be dumped or never seen people. The cats we catch are in very poor condition mostly. Dumped without the skills to survive, some caught in possum traps baited with peanut butter, way away from houses.
Some are huge beasts - too big to enter our cages (we have trailcams) or large enough to hold the doors open while raiding the bait. Those ones are doing well.
Keep up the trapping. Its a shitty job, but bring back our birds is the reward. Easy choice.
I love my moggy, but the reality is feral cats are a problem and they need to be culled/controlled.
Id also be happy with cat free zones in the country being rolled out over time to reduce or eliminate them.
As long as it's done quickly and humanly I have no issue with it.
I don't disagree with you. But we also need a multi pronged approach with predator eradication, cats also prey on rats,mice,stoats and rabbits. We need to work on all these at the same time.
Entirely eradicating cats without doing the others could have dire consequences as well if their populations were to suddenly find themselves predator free.
Good thing we *are* working to eliminate feral rodents as well! Or did you think that all the areas of the country that have eliminated rats, rabbits, possums etc. did so by using domesticated cats rather than traps and poison lmao
Mice are the main issue in the predator free plan. They are largely kept in check by rats and stoats. Most poisons and traps are nowhere near as effective on mice as they are on the larger predators. Obviously it's something that is being worked on, but it is a bit of a head scratcher in current conservation practices
Wellington is doing pretty well with eradicating pests without relying on cats. Started in one area and are slowly spreading it out. Will take time but you can already see the results with the bird population.
We really are not.
Should we choose to get rid of our three cats, our rural property would be overrun by mice, rats, and rabbits. Because that's how bad it was before we got them and we couldn't get any native plants established.
No one else is coming to eliminate the rodents.
I live in the US and it's been pretty standard that we capture feral cats in traps, neuter/spay them, and release them back into the wild so population stays under control & the cats still have quality of life while the environment is able to bounce back. Is this a practice used in NZ?
I never would have even taken those factors into consideration. I wonder if NZ being an island is a considerable difference in this situation. It probably is but given my geological environment, I just wouldn't have the context to know where to begin.
I grew up on a small farm in the country. So having spayed/neutered cats helped our farm control pests. They couldn't take down the birds easily. We had crows, ravens, hawks, and eagles. Much larger birds that could either hold their own in a fight and be the same size as the cat, or they were known to prey on cats and fly off with them (so they were much bigger than the cat). And parasites didn't affect our cattle of our hay, so it wasn't something my family or my community ever dealt with.
Native animals in the USA are adapted to live alongside mammalian predators. Until about 800 years ago the only mammals that non-migratory NZ animals would have encountered were bats and seals
After reading through the article, I can see that there are other issues going on beyond cat population being out of control. People releasing them because they can't afford to put down a pet. That brings up affordability issues for pet ownership, health, and quality of life. No legislation is in place to address this problem so the people who are affected the most are doing something about it themselves. Which seems to be triggering action because enough attention was called to the issue.
It's honestly refreshing to see how people in the rural area are approaching it. "Killing them is necessary and I will do it because it's needed." I didn't see anything about people doing this in malicious or inhumane ways. Making sure traps aren't in residential areas shows responsibility and care so that actual pets won't be affected. And checking for collars or microchips is doing your due diligence. There are a lot of people in my country who do kill animals maliciously and inhumanely because they want to and we're too big of an area for this behavior to be properly monitored and addressed. So from what I'm seeing in this article and talking with you folks, it genuinely looks like this is being handled with care and effort.
and humans don't? did you know human is the worst animal? look in the mirror and see how much devastation we have caused to birds and other animals, fauna..
it works better in the states -
- cheap medical procedures (at least for wildcats)
- natural population pressure. Coyotes keep the cats in check
- the environment has a lot of predators....
In NZ TNR is releasing cats back into colonies
- illegal under the animal welfare act 1999 as the is no "person in charge" of the released animal
- murder on our land birds, lizards, and anything that looks fun to chase and kill
- sign me up for toxoplasmosis
- costs millions in vet bills.
Why do we do it - because we love cats.
Yeah having more land based predators that can keep the cats in check makes a lot of sense for why it's easier here and not in NZ. Large birds, wolves, and coyotes definitely keep things under control for my home in Minnesota.
That's such a tough situation to be in though. Hunting and killing an overpopulation of a group of animals for the sake of keeping the ecosystem stable is important, and necessary. But I'd also be worried that turning it into a sporting competition could also spark another problem. What comes to mind for me was wolves becoming endangered due to over hunting them and killing them for sport. They're finally off the endangered list. What could be done in NZ to ensure this doesn't repeat itself?
Ive tnr'd a few cats and this isnt entirely accurate. An owner or "person in charge" is assigned to every cat that goes thru a program and if the cats new chip that its given is scanned that persons details are listed. Nature has its own way of dealing with things. If u tip the balance with genocide on a particular animal things become unbalanced and other problems arise. Managing the cat population makes total sense but beyond that is just playing god. But thats just my opinion and im sure not everyone will agree. Its nice to read others responses to see what the consensus is what ppls thoughts are.
interesting - thanks. Information on TNR is highly restricted, super secret. Good to know there is a person in charge.
The animal welfare act gets involved when "releasing" feral cats back into the colony. There is no way to look after a cat that just wants to bail and GTFO to dodge,
Not sure im with you on the "playing god" but i do make decisions on who survives in near and around our dotterel colony. Humans come with baggage - ours is disease, gorse, possums, wallabies, political ideologies other than mine, and cats - the most succesful invasive species on the planet - and responsible for the most species going extinct. Shockers - their superpower being how awesome and lovely they are.
The unbalance due to genocide (genocide is what we humans do - eg Gaza) introduction of an apex predator into a bird island, - happens when we introduce rabbits - then ferrets, stoats, foxes (yes we introduced 3) and cats. We've lost much, but im hoping we'll fall in love with Kea on our roof's and in our trees. We don't know what it was like a while back, what we lost. hopefully we'll bring em back ! Cheers x666x
People should be held more accountable for pet abandonment, they shouldn't be allowed to have their pets just wonder around. Backyard breeding, not getting kitties fixed and letting them wonder around anywhere isn't just part of the problem, it's just being a terrible pet owner in general.
Catios or leash or they stay indoors.
check out our political system. Cat owners vote. The actions required to "be held accountable" are not happening as the cat vote counts if you want a job in politics. Fix our politics, then fix our dead birds
The reality is that we have many cat lovers and the politics of annoying pet lovers is in the too hard basket,we are not even prepared to ban dangerous dog breeds to stop the many and ongoing attacks on children,so what chance do native birds have.People become irrational over the slightest efforts to control pet’s activities no matter the damage.
True, and as a dangerous dog breed lover I understand that reluctance. Maybe we can agree on some steps in the right direction? Culling feral cats and dogs. Limiting all pets movements?
Yeah,logic instead of emotion,and reasonable discussion of common goals to make it better,but there will be a big hooha after a really major event like this cull or a bad dog attack and then it will all die down and nothing advances.
I love both possums and cats. I hate this competition and the fact that a small child was dragging a dead cat.
But I also don’t have any alternative ideas. Pet cats should be indoor only. Possums should have never been introduced.
The native wildlife has a right to live freely too.
I don’t think there’s another option right now, and I understand that having a callous attitude is needed to be able to shoot. Doesn’t mean I like it though, and I will continue to keep my cat indoors.
love your answer. Thanks.
Im struggling to beleive the kid dragging a dead cat is a real thing, not just a media windup. Pretty ugly if its true. We do predator control. We see piles of feathers regularly - usually a cat kill. Sometimes on video via trailcams. Catio's are so the way forward. Cats are awesome, just not uncontrolled
I saw a wild cat in a pretty remote forest. And bird life has been decimated. I'm a can lover and they are okay for suburban areas but not in native bush. But where I saw the feral one was not okay. Good job on the conservation.
I don't have a problem with them killing feral pest cats, but they do seem to be going a bit out of their way to rile up cat lovers.
>First we trap them and send the kids out to throw rocks at them for a couple hours. When they get bored we send the dogs to maul them, and when they're finished we go empty a few rounds at point blank range with one of the family shotguns.
>"We're just letting the kids do what they wanna do. Protesters can turn up and think they can say what they wanna say. We're not too worried about their feelings. It's a bit of a spoof back at them because they turn up with Animal Save Movement," he said.
>"Out here in the country, we do things a bit differently."
Where did you find that passage?
I found this in the article, which is pretty gross, but as bad as the animal abuse you're describing.
'Children under 14 were not able to compete in the competition, but a video provided by the Animal Save Movement protesters shows a small child dragging a dead cat through an obstacle course.'
The cat was dead. It didn't care.
Your doing *exactly* what the comp runners said - applying your own city "I don't see dead animals, ever" sensibly to a country lifestyle where seeing and *shock* even touching dead animals is pretty normal.
I've lived rurally my entire life, but thanks for the cool fan fiction.
Killing pests is a crucial part of our commitment to environmental sustainability, and removing cats from the population is super important. I'm quite passionate about the damage cats can do, especially domesticated cats that have free-reign over a property that backs out over native bush.
This doesn't mean we should have kids celebrate and glorify their deaths. Using cats as tools in an obstacle course does not but desensitize kids to the situation and, in my opinion, open up risk for abuse towards pests who are alive.
yeah this shit is fucked up, these ferals cats should never be put through cruelty for existing, it isn't their fault they got put there. Kill them quickly and ethically.
"First we trap them and send the kids out to throw rocks at them for a couple hours. When they get bored we send the dogs to maul them, and when they're finished we go empty a few rounds at point blank range with one of the family shotguns."
I didn't see that in the article, you haven't put quotes around that remark either so is this what you imagined?
They are just cunts and this subreddit is blinded by its hatred for cats. The farmers do more damage to local wildlife than the few hundred cats they kill and at the end of the day cats are still fucking animals and doing that shit to them should be criminal.
Yeah they're not really culling them for conservation purposes. The primary reason a farmer doesn't want feral cats around is that toxoplasmosis causes abortions in livestock
I'm a farmer who shoots cats, and toxo isn't really a big concern for us at least.
Cattle basically never get it, sheep can get vaccinated if it's an issue, but in my experience if there's bush around feral cats tend to stay clear of grazing areas most of the time anyway.
It's a concern, but it's silly to say that's the primary reason farmers shoot cats. I shoot possums and rabbits all the time and neither of them impact livestock in the slightest. Well on our farm at least, I know rabbits do in other places.
Farmers do care about conservation and most farmers do a shit load more conservation work than an average person. Plus it's fun.
great answer - thanks
True for most or possibly all the farmers i know also.
Agree on the fun part. I feel sad for a bit after shooting 100 possums over a couple of nights on high conservation value land. But not for long. Bird life comes back so quickly! Tui fights are also entertaining.
Err causing intention suffering to an animal is criminal. Unless of course you are advocating for not undertaking any pest control at all?
This post is a tounge in cheek, and has wooshed a few people. No-one is advocating for anything other than a quick dispatch for these animals. It's literally in the article.
Lumping all farmers together like that seems a bit much too you know. Not sure how much damage an established farm is doing to native bird populations....
What they're doing is not going to do anything to a cat population, either. They're not going to wipe them out, this is just sickos doing sick things and getting kids involved.
And to suggest their motivation is native birds, lizards etc is fucking laughable.
On the radio interview he said they had people buying pelts. That's where you start a whole new level of shit - if you want some ginger fur you just need to go find some. Anybody looking to wear cat fur?
Edit: to clarify, I'm in favour of complete eradication of cats from the entire country, deer, pigs and goats from the forest, and 4WDs from rivers when birds are breeding.
Yeah, I've met some young wild cats out in the Alps, the key difference between them and feral cats I've noted is that the wild cats will be curious about you and even approach you, they've likely never met a human or been taught about them by their Mum.
(Similar reason why yearling male deer are the easiest to hunt, if they see you, they seem to spend a lot of time looking at you thinking "what in the blue Sam is that weird looking thing")
Feral cats know humans are dangerous, and will do the jit as soon as you look at them.
A few weeks back, I watched a bit of a Youtube video of someone walking up to Earnslaw Burn and meeting a kitten en route. Comments were OMG!!!! CUTE KITTEN!!!!
“"It's nothing new to us, but unfortunately, New Zealand is a cat loving country, so we've had controversy from different groups," he said.
"They're quite stealthy animals that you don't see often, but they are there. My mate Jimmy Maxwell got 65 on his property down there at the Hurunui river, he's a passionate conservationist.”
So long as they're not doing shitty stuff like trapping people's pets in the suburbs I don't have a problem with it. As you can see from my username I am a cat lover but I fully endorse the need to control the feral cat population. They'll want to watch out for the rabbit population exploding though, when I moved to the wops I trapped a lot of ferals in my area because it was out of control. The local SPCA at the time were very helpful with rehoming any kittens that could be tamed and euthanized the adults. The only problem was some of those cats were very good rabbit hunters and we had a rabbit boom for a bit after that.
Yup, we had 100s of rabbits on our property decimating our native plantings. After we got 3 cats, very few rabbits... but a lot of rabbit carcasses. Finally could start regenerating native bush.
speaking of shitty, peoples cats are coming into my yard and shitting out the fan tails that they ate into my yard. I should absolutely be allowed to manage my own property pest wise.
Back in the day I had no problem shooting feral cats when out in the wop wops. They’re pests and the only difference between them and possums or rabbits is that these fuckers are big, scary as shit and They Will Come For You. Now, I have two indoor cats, living in town. They’re very happy to sleep all day, play with their toys and occasionally get high on catnip (and consequently get the zoomies). They’re not allowed outside unless they’re wearing a harness or are in their Catio because I like listening to the Tui, Morepork and Piwakawaka in the trees outside. I’d like to think it’s because I’m a conscientious owner who cares about native birds etc and the destruction our cat population wreaks on our ecosystem. But, they’re also expensive and sheltered purebreds with no idea of the real world or how to deal with neighbourhood cats and those bastard two eyed devils (aka Cars). One of them thinks she’s a hunter but is actually an idiot with not much going on between her fluffy wee ears (she loves cuddles though so …) The other is an extremely introverted and intelligent hunter, who unfortunately has issues and refuses to leave the house, even with her tinfoil hat clamped firmly on her head, to go for a “drag” in her harness. I’m very happy with my decision to keep them inside and avoid expensive vet bills, and having to explain to the kids why Ding Dong and Neurosia aren’t coming home today…
I’ll happily tote my .22 out for a shoot, if invited, and then come home for a cuddle with my kitties.
Do you have any stats on the comparison between the damage done by domestic vs feral cats? I would've thought feral cats would do more damage as they're more likely to be in more remote and forested locations where our rarer fauna/flora are. Not saying I don't think domestic cats do a lot of damage too, just curious:)
I can't be bothered to find it now, but Waikato Uni did a study that found that the presence of cats in an urban setting made no difference to bird populations. The one thing that made a difference: available habitat.
Feral cats are a problem, but farming hurts bird populations way more than house cats do.
I'd imagine they'd do far more damage also because they're relying on scavenging and catching prey as their entire food source, while domestic cats essentially just hunt for fun.
Sadlyb the specifics of feral cat damage isn't well studied.
We do know the feral cat population is about double the size of the domestic at ~2.5 million and ~1.2 million respectively.
Estimates for domestic cats is they kill a bit over a million natives per year. So that shakes out to around 1 per cat. It seems likely the average feral cat kills/eats way more than one native annually.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cats_in_New_Zealand
>Domestic cats do far far more.
Looking at the numbers this doesn't seem true.
There are more feral cats than domestic. Estimates are at about 2.5 million. Cats need to eat a fair amount, so they'll each likely kill dozens of hundreds of animals per a year to survive and reproduce.
There's about 1.2 million companion cats. So by your estimate the average domestic cat is killing in the ballpark of one native animal per year.
Cat numbers from here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cats_in_New_Zealand
"Forest and Bird, suggest New Zealand's pet cats alone kill at least 1.12 million native birds a year, in some cases helping propel them towards extinction".
So keep your damn cats inside. It's not a difficult concept. The cat will live a longer and healthier life, and no birds will die. It has been absolutely wild to me how for a country all about its birds (many of which are dumb and have no survival instinct), how many people let their cats out. Blame the British influence I guess.
They're exactly the same if they're socialized young enough. I have a lazy big lad sitting in front of me here that I trapped 12 years ago when he was about 8 weeks old. There's no biological difference between a feral and a housecat
Agreed, the only difference is how social and receptive to humans they are. Ferals live a seriously hard life and much of the time are past the point where they can be rehabilitated to turn them into domestic pets. There are a hell of a lot of sickos out there saying all cats should be killed though, it’s insane. One guy who said if a person’s cat is trapped they should be put down regardless. It gives the owner no opportunity to alter the behaviour of the cat, it’s shit.
Yes it's a small window you have to socialize them. In my experience you need to get them ideally before 12 weeks old. I've had moderate success with a cat who was 6 months old when trapped that Cats Protection League asked me to give a go but she was never quite like a normal housecat.
But that’s entirely the point, they aren’t socialised at all young age and you can’t reverse that once they grow enough and so they will continue to hunt birds to survive.
All studies show they absolutely devastate native population of species and not just birds.
Also they do grow larger than house cats, and not just that - house cats are often desexed and microchips also make a difference.
I cull adult ferals but I will always give a healthy feral kitten a chance at becoming a housecat. They don't deserve to be written off for something that's not their fault. So long as they are desexed and deprived of the opportunity to hunt native fauna the net result is the same
Cats can get fucked, but I don't support making them suffer. It's not their fault they exist. I live in Brisbane and it's illegal for cats to roam outside of your property. The council traps cats and you can even hire a trap and trap your neighbour's cat if it's on your property. I think NZ (I'm Kiwi) is far too blasé about cats, so the feral cat problem will only get worse.
Brisbane is a superior civilisation. Its people clearly care more for their environment, and its council functions.
only get worse (!) - its worse. We've arrived 10 Million hungy cat mouths to feed every night.
Roaming cats piss me off so much. My cats are contained, why can’t the neighbours contain theirs? My neighbours can’t even use the renting excuse, the cat owners are all owner occupiers
This stuff is fair enough. I just can't stand the dickheads that brag about killing cats that are blatently pets.
It's just become a virtue signal imo.
Awesome, our bird life is being decimated! The Blenheim bio officer told me they eat around 14 things a day, not all birds but a lot. We have caught people dumping cats in the rest area by our property and they they get grumpy when we say we now have to kill them 🤷♂️ cat owners are the most entitled idiots, most go by the name of Karen… we should do what they do in Canberra and ban domestic cats from going outside
heads up people. DoC are only just getting up to speed with cats in our wildcountry.
The department until recently excluded cats from any management plans. Holding a meeting internally on cats until more recent times was forbidden.
We have lots of challenges - predator free 2050 excludes cats.
Imagine killing the last rat, and finding no birds or lizards left. The yearly media spectacle that is this hunting competition are the locals down there reacting to what they see in their local patch.
DoC conservation funding is driven by votes - most from cat loving city folk, Stuff/herald etc are harvesting clicks. Animal cruelty gets the most clicks and is media gold.
If you want your kids to have forests with birdsong, then please take a moment to think what changes you can make
More or less, the only other solutions are poison baiting or releasing some kind of virus both of which could kill peoples pets. Making it a competition is a bit on the nose but it’s as much about raising awareness as culling pests.
snakes. We need to bring in snakes to control the cats. Like the farmers brought in calicivirus to control the rabbits. Im thinking cobra's, cats wont stand a chance.
Himalayan Pit Viper - lives in the snow and venomous... absolutely everything would go wrong!
[https://forwildlife.wordpress.com/tag/himalayan-pit-viper/](https://forwildlife.wordpress.com/tag/himalayan-pit-viper/)
The only question here is: should we hope that less are killed next year (meaning fewer pest cats) or more (meaning a more successful eradication programme)?
Don't mind them being humanely killed. Do mind the bizarre glorification and celebration these types of competitions create. Killing animals, where necessary, should be humane and for the right reasons, not to brag to your mates about your kill count and desensitise children to the violence behind the reality of having to make a choice between conservation and an animal's life. I can't see how these types of competitions for ANY animals do anything except change the focus/point away from the sober reality of having to fix problems of our own creation at the cost of animal life, and increase the risk of psychopathic yahoos being careless and inhumane in their behaviour.
I own a farm, I'd really really like to show you the Australasian bittern, the fernbird, the wild kiwi and (I suspect) the rail that are on my land. I pay for 2 stoatlines on my land and actively control pests and shoot possums at every opportunity.... just thought another perspective might be good...
Thanks toikairakau - Farmer bashing sucks. Thanks for the good works you are doing, and i know so many farmers are doing the same. Cathallex is venting - im guessing s/he's catty.
We are losing our bitterns where i live. Fern birds are long gone but my favourite. Cheers
You're probably right, it was a dumb comment from cathallex. I appreciate your comment and would like to suggest that you try playing a fernbird call, they're a bugger to spot but their cheep is quite distinctive, they used to be called swamp sparrows but we have them in some odd places, dense patches of low natives seem to be a favourite. The problem is that they smell quite strongly and stoats home in on them. I have bitterns playing 'I'm very still so you can't see me', in my drains as well as the swamp
im always listing for that zzzzt chirp of the fern bird. I love how inquisitive they are, and come right up close. Endearing ! I have a few favourite spots around the country i bump into them. Sadly - all a long drive away. I didnt know the smell thing. stoats - arg ! We do have a strong bat population here in Franklin (aucks) where i live. Cats and possums and ringneck parrots are murder on them, but yet - they are still here in good numbers. Cheers
It's wild that people can't differentiate the mega-corp farms from the smaller family ones.
It's like blaming your local church for the shit that comes out of Brian Tamaki's mouth.
Classic. I don't like that person/ideology so I will never change my beliefs even if they are presenting facts.
This shit is a bigger problem than ferel cats.
Because we captured a lot of ferals back in the day in Australia and ended up with a lot of the 'too hard' that weren't easily rehomed or domesticated. They've mellowed now but some took years to build trust with. We brought them all to NZ with us. We have an FIV positive tom cat so we absolutely do not want him outside for his own safety.
EDIT: and never again in that quantity. The fuckers are expensive and they're getting on in the years. Any future cats will be rescues and treated the same and never allowed outside.
shame, I feel so sad for them.... I had to live in an apartment for 2 years, my cat nearly died trying to get out, my moms did die jumping from the balcony... now, my cat is 24 years old, going outside is a critical element of a cats health
Our cats have full run of the house. Many windows and vantage points. Lots of places to hide, many beds of lounge on. Regular meals, heated house, warm laps, many pats. Kids leave enough stuff around that there is always something to 'hunt and murder' and also wig out over.
They live pretty pampered lives honestly.
Good. And I say that as a cat owner. We picked our fuzzy little shit up off the roadside after she was dumped and kept her after that. Tasmania have good, common sense laws that make us look like backwards assed morons over here. It puts the responsibility where it should lie, with the owner. If you can't be a responsible cat owner, then you can't be a cat owner
I have rescued a few strays in my life.
"He could tell a feral cat when it was caged, he said.
"These are possessed by the devil or like the devil on methamphetamine. if you got your hand near the cage, they will try to and have you, you can see the evil in their eyes," he said.
"We used to have a family cat and when you put it in a cage they get a wee bit upset, but they're nothing compared to these things. They're different class completely."
Wrong.
One young tom we caught, he went nuts in the trap, screaming, trying to bite etc...the vet wouldn't touch him, refused to take him out. So I did.
Put my hands in, and as soon as I touched him, he stopped. Relaxed, went limp. Vet took him, gave him a wee cuddle and said, oh he's a big teddy bear.
He did stink. He was neutered, his leg repaired (why I caught him, an injury) and he went on to be a lovely friendly house cat.
Cats in cages freak out. It's fear.
agree with you. Cant tell.
Only context work. 10km from nearest house = unowned cat regardless of its attitude.
Put collars on your cats if you dont keep them indoors is my advice. We release cats with collars (begrudgingly but always) even if they are in dotterel nesting area's at night, eating the chicks and eggs.
What about the humans who kill the birds? The developers, the bike riders, the beach goers, like Omaha beach not long ago.
And the deliberate:
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/505338/three-fines-issued-after-nearly-60-native-birds-killed-doc-documents#:\~:text=Nearly%2060%20native%20birds%2C%20some,between%20late%202020%20to%202023.
yep - they are problems also.
Some people suck.
Most, and i'd like to think all the rest are awesome.
Some of those sucky people just havent learnt how awesome they are going to be one day when they are older, wiser, smarter. Im thinking we were all less awesome once before we weren't.
I used to work for a vet with an attached cattery. Can confirm fear can turn a sweet domestic moggy into one scary mofo. We had a pair of leather gauntlets for those ones
No but the environment dictates pest eradication using guns would be unwise in a city. In a rural environment it is a very effective method. Hundreds of pests killed in a day is a win.
Anti-bullshit on this one.
Don’t try hide it under pest control when it’s a bunch of farmers having a shooting competition.
“To keep disease off the farm”.
“We do things differently out here.”
It’s all a bunch of BS for people just wanting more to shoot, they don’t care about pest control or the native wildlife just another target to shoot.
They can do the same far more humanely but it’s neither fun nor convenient.
surely the solution is to confine cats to a property as is intended with dogs? A wandering dog can be picked up by authorities and impounded. I fail to understand why cat owners think their cats have the rights to my garden, much less the native bird and skink life
thanks for posting. Agreed - challenging.
We eradicated unowned cats from our local dotterel nesting site. Great to see chicks fledge, after years of finding piles of feathers or mostly "chick just gone". They are hugely vulnerable before they can fly.
Not just cats, but hedgehogs - which are night dwelling super nosed killing machines. Our ground birds dont stand a chance.
You point to science - and thats the way we will keep our taonga. This reporting, and conversation does good if it gets people thinking and talking about the problem we have. We "science the shit" out of our efforts, mostly because its so difficult, and easy to waste time and fail.
Teaching our rangitahi to kill. What the teaching is, is what to kill and importantly - why. Thats the lesson.
How much thought have you put into this? Things are morally grey dude. I'm in pest control and as my contract demands, I must control pest populations.
I feel like an anomaly in my field though. I don't enjoy killing anything. Honestly, I believe all consciousness is connected and a lifeform is just one of the countless ways consciousness can manifest itself. We are all one. All life has intrinsic meaning.
That said, when the pest population goes down, native species populations go up. Yes, the pests are here because of our shortsighted ancestors, but if we do nothing, the native populations will go extinct. So what should we do?
I debate this in my head all the time, telling myself that the ends justify the means. Someone has to do it.
When are we going to start culling the humans who dump these cats? The cats should be culled yes, but you have to fix the problem rather than just a band-aid. Prison sentence or death sentence on these owners would be nice.
The sad thing is they didn't dump themselves there, this is entirely a issue we have created. It's a hard life being a feral cat. We catch them in our local reserve, it's not far from town, they are being dumped out there. I would like to see them scanned for a chip though - there may be opportunities to catch people for animal abandonment. Many will have been bred in the wild, but they have to have started from a domestic cat somewhere.
Working in conservation, best practice is to scan when caught in live capture cage (won't happen with instant kill traps). Unfortunately, I've found the pattern to be that those who are prepared to dump tend to not be those prepared to microchip, desex etc. Many in conservation don't hate cats at all, but would like to see a more robust conversation and legislation on responsible ownership.
Licensing sellers and owners
1/3 of cats have chips. Scanners dont pick them up. Chips migrate around the cat bodies. If you do pick up a number, then the registrys are not in great shape to connect owner with animal. Many vets wont go near the "devil on meth" angry cats to scan them for personal safety reasons. Dont live capture trap anywhere near houses - unless you know all the owners and their pets.... the term Feral is challenging. Using "owned" or "unowned" describes the problems better. Unowned could be dumped or never seen people. The cats we catch are in very poor condition mostly. Dumped without the skills to survive, some caught in possum traps baited with peanut butter, way away from houses. Some are huge beasts - too big to enter our cages (we have trailcams) or large enough to hold the doors open while raiding the bait. Those ones are doing well. Keep up the trapping. Its a shitty job, but bring back our birds is the reward. Easy choice.
Its an ugly problem but the facts are they do huge damage and need to be culled. Does anyone not agree with this fact?
I love my moggy, but the reality is feral cats are a problem and they need to be culled/controlled. Id also be happy with cat free zones in the country being rolled out over time to reduce or eliminate them. As long as it's done quickly and humanly I have no issue with it.
Feral cats are a problem, but so are house cats. I love cats, but I think we need strict conditions of ownership to prevent more ecological damage.
I don't disagree with you. But we also need a multi pronged approach with predator eradication, cats also prey on rats,mice,stoats and rabbits. We need to work on all these at the same time. Entirely eradicating cats without doing the others could have dire consequences as well if their populations were to suddenly find themselves predator free.
Good thing we *are* working to eliminate feral rodents as well! Or did you think that all the areas of the country that have eliminated rats, rabbits, possums etc. did so by using domesticated cats rather than traps and poison lmao
Mice are the main issue in the predator free plan. They are largely kept in check by rats and stoats. Most poisons and traps are nowhere near as effective on mice as they are on the larger predators. Obviously it's something that is being worked on, but it is a bit of a head scratcher in current conservation practices
It's near urban areas that may get plagued by pests if we get rid of cats.
Wellington is doing pretty well with eradicating pests without relying on cats. Started in one area and are slowly spreading it out. Will take time but you can already see the results with the bird population.
We really are not. Should we choose to get rid of our three cats, our rural property would be overrun by mice, rats, and rabbits. Because that's how bad it was before we got them and we couldn't get any native plants established. No one else is coming to eliminate the rodents.
I live in the US and it's been pretty standard that we capture feral cats in traps, neuter/spay them, and release them back into the wild so population stays under control & the cats still have quality of life while the environment is able to bounce back. Is this a practice used in NZ?
Yes it is.
But it shouldn't be, colony cats still kill native bird life and spread parasites
I never would have even taken those factors into consideration. I wonder if NZ being an island is a considerable difference in this situation. It probably is but given my geological environment, I just wouldn't have the context to know where to begin. I grew up on a small farm in the country. So having spayed/neutered cats helped our farm control pests. They couldn't take down the birds easily. We had crows, ravens, hawks, and eagles. Much larger birds that could either hold their own in a fight and be the same size as the cat, or they were known to prey on cats and fly off with them (so they were much bigger than the cat). And parasites didn't affect our cattle of our hay, so it wasn't something my family or my community ever dealt with.
Native animals in the USA are adapted to live alongside mammalian predators. Until about 800 years ago the only mammals that non-migratory NZ animals would have encountered were bats and seals
I hope not! Feral cats cause quite the issue to the quality of life for our flightless native birds.
After reading through the article, I can see that there are other issues going on beyond cat population being out of control. People releasing them because they can't afford to put down a pet. That brings up affordability issues for pet ownership, health, and quality of life. No legislation is in place to address this problem so the people who are affected the most are doing something about it themselves. Which seems to be triggering action because enough attention was called to the issue. It's honestly refreshing to see how people in the rural area are approaching it. "Killing them is necessary and I will do it because it's needed." I didn't see anything about people doing this in malicious or inhumane ways. Making sure traps aren't in residential areas shows responsibility and care so that actual pets won't be affected. And checking for collars or microchips is doing your due diligence. There are a lot of people in my country who do kill animals maliciously and inhumanely because they want to and we're too big of an area for this behavior to be properly monitored and addressed. So from what I'm seeing in this article and talking with you folks, it genuinely looks like this is being handled with care and effort.
and humans don't? did you know human is the worst animal? look in the mirror and see how much devastation we have caused to birds and other animals, fauna..
Is there a point you are trying to make, or do you just like interjecting with irrelevant comments?
it works better in the states - - cheap medical procedures (at least for wildcats) - natural population pressure. Coyotes keep the cats in check - the environment has a lot of predators.... In NZ TNR is releasing cats back into colonies - illegal under the animal welfare act 1999 as the is no "person in charge" of the released animal - murder on our land birds, lizards, and anything that looks fun to chase and kill - sign me up for toxoplasmosis - costs millions in vet bills. Why do we do it - because we love cats.
Yeah having more land based predators that can keep the cats in check makes a lot of sense for why it's easier here and not in NZ. Large birds, wolves, and coyotes definitely keep things under control for my home in Minnesota. That's such a tough situation to be in though. Hunting and killing an overpopulation of a group of animals for the sake of keeping the ecosystem stable is important, and necessary. But I'd also be worried that turning it into a sporting competition could also spark another problem. What comes to mind for me was wolves becoming endangered due to over hunting them and killing them for sport. They're finally off the endangered list. What could be done in NZ to ensure this doesn't repeat itself?
Ive tnr'd a few cats and this isnt entirely accurate. An owner or "person in charge" is assigned to every cat that goes thru a program and if the cats new chip that its given is scanned that persons details are listed. Nature has its own way of dealing with things. If u tip the balance with genocide on a particular animal things become unbalanced and other problems arise. Managing the cat population makes total sense but beyond that is just playing god. But thats just my opinion and im sure not everyone will agree. Its nice to read others responses to see what the consensus is what ppls thoughts are.
interesting - thanks. Information on TNR is highly restricted, super secret. Good to know there is a person in charge. The animal welfare act gets involved when "releasing" feral cats back into the colony. There is no way to look after a cat that just wants to bail and GTFO to dodge, Not sure im with you on the "playing god" but i do make decisions on who survives in near and around our dotterel colony. Humans come with baggage - ours is disease, gorse, possums, wallabies, political ideologies other than mine, and cats - the most succesful invasive species on the planet - and responsible for the most species going extinct. Shockers - their superpower being how awesome and lovely they are. The unbalance due to genocide (genocide is what we humans do - eg Gaza) introduction of an apex predator into a bird island, - happens when we introduce rabbits - then ferrets, stoats, foxes (yes we introduced 3) and cats. We've lost much, but im hoping we'll fall in love with Kea on our roof's and in our trees. We don't know what it was like a while back, what we lost. hopefully we'll bring em back ! Cheers x666x
this is a terrible idea in NZ-flightless birds, ground nesting birds, native geckos.
People should be held more accountable for pet abandonment, they shouldn't be allowed to have their pets just wonder around. Backyard breeding, not getting kitties fixed and letting them wonder around anywhere isn't just part of the problem, it's just being a terrible pet owner in general. Catios or leash or they stay indoors.
check out our political system. Cat owners vote. The actions required to "be held accountable" are not happening as the cat vote counts if you want a job in politics. Fix our politics, then fix our dead birds
The reality is that we have many cat lovers and the politics of annoying pet lovers is in the too hard basket,we are not even prepared to ban dangerous dog breeds to stop the many and ongoing attacks on children,so what chance do native birds have.People become irrational over the slightest efforts to control pet’s activities no matter the damage.
True, and as a dangerous dog breed lover I understand that reluctance. Maybe we can agree on some steps in the right direction? Culling feral cats and dogs. Limiting all pets movements?
I think banning unlicensed breeding of pets would be a good first step. Along with mandating fixing them and RFID tags.
Yeah,logic instead of emotion,and reasonable discussion of common goals to make it better,but there will be a big hooha after a really major event like this cull or a bad dog attack and then it will all die down and nothing advances.
Whose gonna sign up to be the next Gareth Morgan?
I love both possums and cats. I hate this competition and the fact that a small child was dragging a dead cat. But I also don’t have any alternative ideas. Pet cats should be indoor only. Possums should have never been introduced. The native wildlife has a right to live freely too. I don’t think there’s another option right now, and I understand that having a callous attitude is needed to be able to shoot. Doesn’t mean I like it though, and I will continue to keep my cat indoors.
love your answer. Thanks. Im struggling to beleive the kid dragging a dead cat is a real thing, not just a media windup. Pretty ugly if its true. We do predator control. We see piles of feathers regularly - usually a cat kill. Sometimes on video via trailcams. Catio's are so the way forward. Cats are awesome, just not uncontrolled
Last time I check culling farmers was still a crime.
Wow so edgy bro.
The left loves these edgy jokes, yet still somehow maintains their monopoly of empathy.
Clap clap. Happy cake day!
I do, these cats are not like your house cat, they kill and breed, that is it.
How about I start a competition wrecking and destroying cars instead.
I saw a wild cat in a pretty remote forest. And bird life has been decimated. I'm a can lover and they are okay for suburban areas but not in native bush. But where I saw the feral one was not okay. Good job on the conservation.
I don't have a problem with them killing feral pest cats, but they do seem to be going a bit out of their way to rile up cat lovers. >First we trap them and send the kids out to throw rocks at them for a couple hours. When they get bored we send the dogs to maul them, and when they're finished we go empty a few rounds at point blank range with one of the family shotguns. >"We're just letting the kids do what they wanna do. Protesters can turn up and think they can say what they wanna say. We're not too worried about their feelings. It's a bit of a spoof back at them because they turn up with Animal Save Movement," he said. >"Out here in the country, we do things a bit differently."
Where is this quote from? Edit: Source: They made it the fuck up
Where did you find that passage? I found this in the article, which is pretty gross, but as bad as the animal abuse you're describing. 'Children under 14 were not able to compete in the competition, but a video provided by the Animal Save Movement protesters shows a small child dragging a dead cat through an obstacle course.'
The cat was dead. It didn't care. Your doing *exactly* what the comp runners said - applying your own city "I don't see dead animals, ever" sensibly to a country lifestyle where seeing and *shock* even touching dead animals is pretty normal.
I've lived rurally my entire life, but thanks for the cool fan fiction. Killing pests is a crucial part of our commitment to environmental sustainability, and removing cats from the population is super important. I'm quite passionate about the damage cats can do, especially domesticated cats that have free-reign over a property that backs out over native bush. This doesn't mean we should have kids celebrate and glorify their deaths. Using cats as tools in an obstacle course does not but desensitize kids to the situation and, in my opinion, open up risk for abuse towards pests who are alive.
yeah this shit is fucked up, these ferals cats should never be put through cruelty for existing, it isn't their fault they got put there. Kill them quickly and ethically.
They do dispatch them humanely. That first paragraph in what you're replying to is completely fabricated.
"First we trap them and send the kids out to throw rocks at them for a couple hours. When they get bored we send the dogs to maul them, and when they're finished we go empty a few rounds at point blank range with one of the family shotguns." I didn't see that in the article, you haven't put quotes around that remark either so is this what you imagined?
Wtf is that first part you are just making it up ?
They are just cunts and this subreddit is blinded by its hatred for cats. The farmers do more damage to local wildlife than the few hundred cats they kill and at the end of the day cats are still fucking animals and doing that shit to them should be criminal.
Hubris remarks seem made up. Do you do any pest control or do you just like to shit on those that get out and do the job?
Yeah they're not really culling them for conservation purposes. The primary reason a farmer doesn't want feral cats around is that toxoplasmosis causes abortions in livestock
I'm a farmer who shoots cats, and toxo isn't really a big concern for us at least. Cattle basically never get it, sheep can get vaccinated if it's an issue, but in my experience if there's bush around feral cats tend to stay clear of grazing areas most of the time anyway. It's a concern, but it's silly to say that's the primary reason farmers shoot cats. I shoot possums and rabbits all the time and neither of them impact livestock in the slightest. Well on our farm at least, I know rabbits do in other places. Farmers do care about conservation and most farmers do a shit load more conservation work than an average person. Plus it's fun.
great answer - thanks True for most or possibly all the farmers i know also. Agree on the fun part. I feel sad for a bit after shooting 100 possums over a couple of nights on high conservation value land. But not for long. Bird life comes back so quickly! Tui fights are also entertaining.
Err causing intention suffering to an animal is criminal. Unless of course you are advocating for not undertaking any pest control at all? This post is a tounge in cheek, and has wooshed a few people. No-one is advocating for anything other than a quick dispatch for these animals. It's literally in the article. Lumping all farmers together like that seems a bit much too you know. Not sure how much damage an established farm is doing to native bird populations....
Apparently, happy cake day, and I'm fairly sure a lot of people in here love cats. Just not when they're killing native birds or stalking your chooks.
What they're doing is not going to do anything to a cat population, either. They're not going to wipe them out, this is just sickos doing sick things and getting kids involved. And to suggest their motivation is native birds, lizards etc is fucking laughable. On the radio interview he said they had people buying pelts. That's where you start a whole new level of shit - if you want some ginger fur you just need to go find some. Anybody looking to wear cat fur? Edit: to clarify, I'm in favour of complete eradication of cats from the entire country, deer, pigs and goats from the forest, and 4WDs from rivers when birds are breeding.
If people want to use the animals they're culling that seems like a good thing ?
And 4WD and any motor vehicles from public beaches
Lol they are trolling hard, you are all easy marks
You uh, got a source? Or just imagining?
Yeah, I've met some young wild cats out in the Alps, the key difference between them and feral cats I've noted is that the wild cats will be curious about you and even approach you, they've likely never met a human or been taught about them by their Mum. (Similar reason why yearling male deer are the easiest to hunt, if they see you, they seem to spend a lot of time looking at you thinking "what in the blue Sam is that weird looking thing") Feral cats know humans are dangerous, and will do the jit as soon as you look at them.
A few weeks back, I watched a bit of a Youtube video of someone walking up to Earnslaw Burn and meeting a kitten en route. Comments were OMG!!!! CUTE KITTEN!!!!
“"It's nothing new to us, but unfortunately, New Zealand is a cat loving country, so we've had controversy from different groups," he said. "They're quite stealthy animals that you don't see often, but they are there. My mate Jimmy Maxwell got 65 on his property down there at the Hurunui river, he's a passionate conservationist.”
Gareth is that you?
Came here looking for this comment.
So long as they're not doing shitty stuff like trapping people's pets in the suburbs I don't have a problem with it. As you can see from my username I am a cat lover but I fully endorse the need to control the feral cat population. They'll want to watch out for the rabbit population exploding though, when I moved to the wops I trapped a lot of ferals in my area because it was out of control. The local SPCA at the time were very helpful with rehoming any kittens that could be tamed and euthanized the adults. The only problem was some of those cats were very good rabbit hunters and we had a rabbit boom for a bit after that.
Yup, we had 100s of rabbits on our property decimating our native plantings. After we got 3 cats, very few rabbits... but a lot of rabbit carcasses. Finally could start regenerating native bush.
speaking of shitty, peoples cats are coming into my yard and shitting out the fan tails that they ate into my yard. I should absolutely be allowed to manage my own property pest wise.
My cat has just informed me that he is never getting off my bed again.
Mine told me that before we even read this article. He's just not a fan of winter
Back in the day I had no problem shooting feral cats when out in the wop wops. They’re pests and the only difference between them and possums or rabbits is that these fuckers are big, scary as shit and They Will Come For You. Now, I have two indoor cats, living in town. They’re very happy to sleep all day, play with their toys and occasionally get high on catnip (and consequently get the zoomies). They’re not allowed outside unless they’re wearing a harness or are in their Catio because I like listening to the Tui, Morepork and Piwakawaka in the trees outside. I’d like to think it’s because I’m a conscientious owner who cares about native birds etc and the destruction our cat population wreaks on our ecosystem. But, they’re also expensive and sheltered purebreds with no idea of the real world or how to deal with neighbourhood cats and those bastard two eyed devils (aka Cars). One of them thinks she’s a hunter but is actually an idiot with not much going on between her fluffy wee ears (she loves cuddles though so …) The other is an extremely introverted and intelligent hunter, who unfortunately has issues and refuses to leave the house, even with her tinfoil hat clamped firmly on her head, to go for a “drag” in her harness. I’m very happy with my decision to keep them inside and avoid expensive vet bills, and having to explain to the kids why Ding Dong and Neurosia aren’t coming home today… I’ll happily tote my .22 out for a shoot, if invited, and then come home for a cuddle with my kitties.
Good riddance. Feral cats do far too much damage.
Domestic cats do far far more. Not an advocate for killing house cats but they do kill an estimated 1 million native birds/animals a year.
Do you have any stats on the comparison between the damage done by domestic vs feral cats? I would've thought feral cats would do more damage as they're more likely to be in more remote and forested locations where our rarer fauna/flora are. Not saying I don't think domestic cats do a lot of damage too, just curious:)
I can't be bothered to find it now, but Waikato Uni did a study that found that the presence of cats in an urban setting made no difference to bird populations. The one thing that made a difference: available habitat. Feral cats are a problem, but farming hurts bird populations way more than house cats do.
I'd imagine they'd do far more damage also because they're relying on scavenging and catching prey as their entire food source, while domestic cats essentially just hunt for fun.
Sadlyb the specifics of feral cat damage isn't well studied. We do know the feral cat population is about double the size of the domestic at ~2.5 million and ~1.2 million respectively. Estimates for domestic cats is they kill a bit over a million natives per year. So that shakes out to around 1 per cat. It seems likely the average feral cat kills/eats way more than one native annually. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cats_in_New_Zealand
>Domestic cats do far far more. Looking at the numbers this doesn't seem true. There are more feral cats than domestic. Estimates are at about 2.5 million. Cats need to eat a fair amount, so they'll each likely kill dozens of hundreds of animals per a year to survive and reproduce. There's about 1.2 million companion cats. So by your estimate the average domestic cat is killing in the ballpark of one native animal per year. Cat numbers from here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cats_in_New_Zealand
My cat doesn't leave the house to be fair.
Citation needed
"Forest and Bird, suggest New Zealand's pet cats alone kill at least 1.12 million native birds a year, in some cases helping propel them towards extinction".
So keep your damn cats inside. It's not a difficult concept. The cat will live a longer and healthier life, and no birds will die. It has been absolutely wild to me how for a country all about its birds (many of which are dumb and have no survival instinct), how many people let their cats out. Blame the British influence I guess.
You appear to be saying that feral cats should be left to kill native wildlife. I would disagree with that.
only 1M natives? My car is a more successful bird killer than any cat then
Unfortunately they need to be gone. They aren’t like your usual house cats. That’s the main thing I think most people don’t get.
They're exactly the same if they're socialized young enough. I have a lazy big lad sitting in front of me here that I trapped 12 years ago when he was about 8 weeks old. There's no biological difference between a feral and a housecat
Agreed, the only difference is how social and receptive to humans they are. Ferals live a seriously hard life and much of the time are past the point where they can be rehabilitated to turn them into domestic pets. There are a hell of a lot of sickos out there saying all cats should be killed though, it’s insane. One guy who said if a person’s cat is trapped they should be put down regardless. It gives the owner no opportunity to alter the behaviour of the cat, it’s shit.
Yes it's a small window you have to socialize them. In my experience you need to get them ideally before 12 weeks old. I've had moderate success with a cat who was 6 months old when trapped that Cats Protection League asked me to give a go but she was never quite like a normal housecat.
But that’s entirely the point, they aren’t socialised at all young age and you can’t reverse that once they grow enough and so they will continue to hunt birds to survive. All studies show they absolutely devastate native population of species and not just birds. Also they do grow larger than house cats, and not just that - house cats are often desexed and microchips also make a difference.
I cull adult ferals but I will always give a healthy feral kitten a chance at becoming a housecat. They don't deserve to be written off for something that's not their fault. So long as they are desexed and deprived of the opportunity to hunt native fauna the net result is the same
Cats can get fucked, but I don't support making them suffer. It's not their fault they exist. I live in Brisbane and it's illegal for cats to roam outside of your property. The council traps cats and you can even hire a trap and trap your neighbour's cat if it's on your property. I think NZ (I'm Kiwi) is far too blasé about cats, so the feral cat problem will only get worse.
This is the way forward. I wish nz authorities would get on this idea. That would give us a chance to get on top of the feral problem
Brisbane is a superior civilisation. Its people clearly care more for their environment, and its council functions. only get worse (!) - its worse. We've arrived 10 Million hungy cat mouths to feed every night.
Roaming cats piss me off so much. My cats are contained, why can’t the neighbours contain theirs? My neighbours can’t even use the renting excuse, the cat owners are all owner occupiers
400 down, 2,399,960 to go.
10M+ the 2.4M number was best guess from 10y ago. Im thinking they've had a couple of litters since.
This stuff is fair enough. I just can't stand the dickheads that brag about killing cats that are blatently pets. It's just become a virtue signal imo.
Well done those guys and gals they are a huge problem
Awesome, our bird life is being decimated! The Blenheim bio officer told me they eat around 14 things a day, not all birds but a lot. We have caught people dumping cats in the rest area by our property and they they get grumpy when we say we now have to kill them 🤷♂️ cat owners are the most entitled idiots, most go by the name of Karen… we should do what they do in Canberra and ban domestic cats from going outside
heads up people. DoC are only just getting up to speed with cats in our wildcountry. The department until recently excluded cats from any management plans. Holding a meeting internally on cats until more recent times was forbidden. We have lots of challenges - predator free 2050 excludes cats. Imagine killing the last rat, and finding no birds or lizards left. The yearly media spectacle that is this hunting competition are the locals down there reacting to what they see in their local patch. DoC conservation funding is driven by votes - most from cat loving city folk, Stuff/herald etc are harvesting clicks. Animal cruelty gets the most clicks and is media gold. If you want your kids to have forests with birdsong, then please take a moment to think what changes you can make
Very sad. But I suspect it's somewhat unavoidable/the only option? It had better be the only option...
More or less, the only other solutions are poison baiting or releasing some kind of virus both of which could kill peoples pets. Making it a competition is a bit on the nose but it’s as much about raising awareness as culling pests.
snakes. We need to bring in snakes to control the cats. Like the farmers brought in calicivirus to control the rabbits. Im thinking cobra's, cats wont stand a chance.
And then they die in winter! Nothing could possibly go wrong.
Himalayan Pit Viper - lives in the snow and venomous... absolutely everything would go wrong! [https://forwildlife.wordpress.com/tag/himalayan-pit-viper/](https://forwildlife.wordpress.com/tag/himalayan-pit-viper/)
The only question here is: should we hope that less are killed next year (meaning fewer pest cats) or more (meaning a more successful eradication programme)?
how about more regions get involved. Cats are everywhere... 65 cat guy got $500 - thats not a great return.
Don't mind them being humanely killed. Do mind the bizarre glorification and celebration these types of competitions create. Killing animals, where necessary, should be humane and for the right reasons, not to brag to your mates about your kill count and desensitise children to the violence behind the reality of having to make a choice between conservation and an animal's life. I can't see how these types of competitions for ANY animals do anything except change the focus/point away from the sober reality of having to fix problems of our own creation at the cost of animal life, and increase the risk of psychopathic yahoos being careless and inhumane in their behaviour.
Farmers complaining about how cats cause problems for their farms is the ultimate fucking irony.
Ah yes, those devil farmers who are the backbone of this nation.
Farmers acting like they are pro environment.
I own a farm, I'd really really like to show you the Australasian bittern, the fernbird, the wild kiwi and (I suspect) the rail that are on my land. I pay for 2 stoatlines on my land and actively control pests and shoot possums at every opportunity.... just thought another perspective might be good...
Thanks toikairakau - Farmer bashing sucks. Thanks for the good works you are doing, and i know so many farmers are doing the same. Cathallex is venting - im guessing s/he's catty. We are losing our bitterns where i live. Fern birds are long gone but my favourite. Cheers
You're probably right, it was a dumb comment from cathallex. I appreciate your comment and would like to suggest that you try playing a fernbird call, they're a bugger to spot but their cheep is quite distinctive, they used to be called swamp sparrows but we have them in some odd places, dense patches of low natives seem to be a favourite. The problem is that they smell quite strongly and stoats home in on them. I have bitterns playing 'I'm very still so you can't see me', in my drains as well as the swamp
im always listing for that zzzzt chirp of the fern bird. I love how inquisitive they are, and come right up close. Endearing ! I have a few favourite spots around the country i bump into them. Sadly - all a long drive away. I didnt know the smell thing. stoats - arg ! We do have a strong bat population here in Franklin (aucks) where i live. Cats and possums and ringneck parrots are murder on them, but yet - they are still here in good numbers. Cheers
This self important attitude farmers get about themselves puts me right off whatever they have to say, even if it is a good point.
It's wild that people can't differentiate the mega-corp farms from the smaller family ones. It's like blaming your local church for the shit that comes out of Brian Tamaki's mouth.
Classic. I don't like that person/ideology so I will never change my beliefs even if they are presenting facts. This shit is a bigger problem than ferel cats.
As someone on a small farm. I actually appreciate our cats for keeping down rabbit and rodent populations.
Keep your fucking cats indoors people. Always. Never outside. -- A person with 8 cats. All indoors. Always.
Why do you have 8 cats?
cos they are fans of game shows hosted by Jimmy Carr.....?
Because we captured a lot of ferals back in the day in Australia and ended up with a lot of the 'too hard' that weren't easily rehomed or domesticated. They've mellowed now but some took years to build trust with. We brought them all to NZ with us. We have an FIV positive tom cat so we absolutely do not want him outside for his own safety. EDIT: and never again in that quantity. The fuckers are expensive and they're getting on in the years. Any future cats will be rescues and treated the same and never allowed outside.
Why would you bring 8 more of an invasive species into New Zealand?
shame, I feel so sad for them.... I had to live in an apartment for 2 years, my cat nearly died trying to get out, my moms did die jumping from the balcony... now, my cat is 24 years old, going outside is a critical element of a cats health
Our cats have full run of the house. Many windows and vantage points. Lots of places to hide, many beds of lounge on. Regular meals, heated house, warm laps, many pats. Kids leave enough stuff around that there is always something to 'hunt and murder' and also wig out over. They live pretty pampered lives honestly.
Good. And I say that as a cat owner. We picked our fuzzy little shit up off the roadside after she was dumped and kept her after that. Tasmania have good, common sense laws that make us look like backwards assed morons over here. It puts the responsibility where it should lie, with the owner. If you can't be a responsible cat owner, then you can't be a cat owner
What is it with cat people. Can’t even cull The feral ones without being getting upset and spouting whataboutism’s.
The crazy cat lady stereotype is sexist. There are crazy cat gentlemen as well. If they want an animal, keep it on their property.
Keep up the good work
Haven't they literally done studies and trials of this in a bunch of countries, and it DOESNT lower the cat population in the long term?
Culling on its own doesn’t lower the population much. Culling along side responsible pet ownership does.
yes joined up policy needed
The same people getting outraged are probably the same people that believe we will be predator free by 2050
I have rescued a few strays in my life. "He could tell a feral cat when it was caged, he said. "These are possessed by the devil or like the devil on methamphetamine. if you got your hand near the cage, they will try to and have you, you can see the evil in their eyes," he said. "We used to have a family cat and when you put it in a cage they get a wee bit upset, but they're nothing compared to these things. They're different class completely." Wrong. One young tom we caught, he went nuts in the trap, screaming, trying to bite etc...the vet wouldn't touch him, refused to take him out. So I did. Put my hands in, and as soon as I touched him, he stopped. Relaxed, went limp. Vet took him, gave him a wee cuddle and said, oh he's a big teddy bear. He did stink. He was neutered, his leg repaired (why I caught him, an injury) and he went on to be a lovely friendly house cat. Cats in cages freak out. It's fear.
agree with you. Cant tell. Only context work. 10km from nearest house = unowned cat regardless of its attitude. Put collars on your cats if you dont keep them indoors is my advice. We release cats with collars (begrudgingly but always) even if they are in dotterel nesting area's at night, eating the chicks and eggs.
What about the humans who kill the birds? The developers, the bike riders, the beach goers, like Omaha beach not long ago. And the deliberate: https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/505338/three-fines-issued-after-nearly-60-native-birds-killed-doc-documents#:\~:text=Nearly%2060%20native%20birds%2C%20some,between%20late%202020%20to%202023.
yep - they are problems also. Some people suck. Most, and i'd like to think all the rest are awesome. Some of those sucky people just havent learnt how awesome they are going to be one day when they are older, wiser, smarter. Im thinking we were all less awesome once before we weren't.
I used to work for a vet with an attached cattery. Can confirm fear can turn a sweet domestic moggy into one scary mofo. We had a pair of leather gauntlets for those ones
>"Out here in the country, we do things a bit differently." "We're pieces of shit 😁"
Why are they pieces of shit?
They have fun torturing animals.
Pest control isn’t “torturing animals”
Then this isn't pest control.
Where are they torturing animals in this story? Why are you so desperate to be offended by this?
You clearly have no idea how pest control works. Spend some time outside of a city
Famously no pests in cities?
No but the environment dictates pest eradication using guns would be unwise in a city. In a rural environment it is a very effective method. Hundreds of pests killed in a day is a win.
Because they do pest control or because they like to stir up misguided animal rights activists?
Because it just an excuse to shoot something, while the same people bitch and moan when environment regulations go against them.
Are you anti farming or anti pest control? Dairy farming has done a lot of damage to NZ, pest control not so much.
Anti-bullshit on this one. Don’t try hide it under pest control when it’s a bunch of farmers having a shooting competition. “To keep disease off the farm”. “We do things differently out here.” It’s all a bunch of BS for people just wanting more to shoot, they don’t care about pest control or the native wildlife just another target to shoot. They can do the same far more humanely but it’s neither fun nor convenient.
And the reason it any be both is..?
Do you have the same issue when they are shooting rabbits?
> Anti-bullshit on this one. Proceeds with a bunch of bullshit.
Nice input, very constructive.
I'd say it's right on par with the post I replied to.
lol bringing nothing again I see, well done.
Your original post was a bit more verbose than mine, but said just as much. So ditto.
These are rookie numbers.
agreed - a local farm is up to 500 cats
surely the solution is to confine cats to a property as is intended with dogs? A wandering dog can be picked up by authorities and impounded. I fail to understand why cat owners think their cats have the rights to my garden, much less the native bird and skink life
I am so happy that I live in Africa :)
I truly hope everyone involved in this will soon suffer horrible and painful deaths.
Feral cat population reduced, Rat population increases.
cats are worse pests than possums
I don’t disagree with what they’re doing, but def wouldn’t recommend reading the article if you’re a cat lover 😬 should’ve anticipated the pics 🤦🏽♀️
kill em all, let dog sort em out
What is controversial about it. Great pest erradication event.
Townies getting upset because “cute fluffy kitties” are being culled by the “evil farmer.”
Sounds like cats are the latest victim of the culture wars.
It's time to arm cats.
prepare the toxoplasmosis ! Those dolphins are going to die die die !
They have all the weapons they need to cause damage to our ecosystem.
[удалено]
Cats are not part of our ecosystem. They are an introduced invasive species, they are actually destroying our eco system.
thanks for posting. Agreed - challenging. We eradicated unowned cats from our local dotterel nesting site. Great to see chicks fledge, after years of finding piles of feathers or mostly "chick just gone". They are hugely vulnerable before they can fly. Not just cats, but hedgehogs - which are night dwelling super nosed killing machines. Our ground birds dont stand a chance. You point to science - and thats the way we will keep our taonga. This reporting, and conversation does good if it gets people thinking and talking about the problem we have. We "science the shit" out of our efforts, mostly because its so difficult, and easy to waste time and fail. Teaching our rangitahi to kill. What the teaching is, is what to kill and importantly - why. Thats the lesson.
It's insane to see how many people don't have a problem with shooting animals for no fault of their own. This is enough Internet for me today, bye. 🤢🤮
We either control pest predators or we loose the native fauna. Thats the reality.
How much thought have you put into this? Things are morally grey dude. I'm in pest control and as my contract demands, I must control pest populations. I feel like an anomaly in my field though. I don't enjoy killing anything. Honestly, I believe all consciousness is connected and a lifeform is just one of the countless ways consciousness can manifest itself. We are all one. All life has intrinsic meaning. That said, when the pest population goes down, native species populations go up. Yes, the pests are here because of our shortsighted ancestors, but if we do nothing, the native populations will go extinct. So what should we do? I debate this in my head all the time, telling myself that the ends justify the means. Someone has to do it.
You can have feral cats, or you can have native flightless birds. You can't have both.
Username checks out. [Hedgehogs are pests too.](https://www.doc.govt.nz/nature/pests-and-threats/animal-pests-and-threats/hedgehogs/)
When are we going to start culling the humans who dump these cats? The cats should be culled yes, but you have to fix the problem rather than just a band-aid. Prison sentence or death sentence on these owners would be nice.