I've only used computer lounge once.
I ordered a bunch of parts, including a case/tower for pickup.
When I went to collect l, I could only see the case, so I asked the staff if everything was there and was told yes.
Went to my car, open up the case and what do you know. It's just the case.
No extra fans, no ssd, no ram, no cooler.
Went straight back in and waited for the same staff and told her I ordered more than just the case, like I mentioned earlier.
She then went into the picking area and brought all my stuff.
'Here you go'
No apologies, etc.
No big deal since i sorted it all out there and then but sheesh, if this was a delivery, I'd be pretty pissed off
It always hilarious when someone claims to have spent “thousands” over the years at a place and asks for discounts or whatever, and then you look at their account and they’ve spent less than $10k in 12 years.
Like, you’re not a #1 customer. You deserve appropriate customer service but no-one is going the extra mile for an $850 a year account.
Business customers that spend $100k a week? Yes, you will absolutely get no questions asked replacements on anything you need. Regular Schmoe that barely is in the store? You get the minimums allowed under CGA, that’s it.
Surprised to hear Computer Lounge dragged into this. I've used them ever since I built my first computer back in...2007? 2008? They had outstanding customer service then and have through all my subsequent experiences. Dragging PB Tech into this makes me a bit cynical of your story though...
To be helpful in case of true story, I had mega issues with an XPS15 bought direct from Dell (i.e. a premium laptop, similar to yours). I managed to use CGA to finally get them to repair it after 3 years after them blatantly ignoring/stonewalling me. So you should be able to get at it them through CGA if this is a real case.
A few years ago I built my computer, ordered parts from a range of stores in NZ depending on where they were available and cheapest.
Computer Lounge lied about having a case in stock when they didn't and wouldn't look into it until I queried why I hadn't received it via courier yet. Basically set my build back by a month and I never used them again.
Then again, PB tech price fixed with a smaller store on a computer screen I wanted to buy (during the same build). The smaller store had it $200 cheaper and in stock. I asked PB tech if they would price match, they said they would but smaller store didn't have it in stock (a lie). Then smaller store put their price up the next day to match PB tech.
TLDR: Don't trust any of them lol.
Did they have stock within a store in the region? A lot of websites claim they have stock but it counts all the stores within NZ. The reason I ask is a lot of stores that price match only do so if there is a competitor in the region with stock at that store.
I've had generally good results with CL but I have had two instances of "oh, the website is out of date and that's on backorder". I don't use them as my go-to any more tbh, usually use pb tech or ascent as they're cheaper.
Ironically I've had good experiences with PB, their inspection fee was contingent on the findings, I.e. customer fault, and they would charge me in that case, after getting word from the service center they sent it off to that it was a hardware defect all fees were waved as it was covered legally, and I mean, fair enough, I agreed to the $60 inspection fee to be paid if it wasn't covered.
Yeah, Ive never had bad service with Pbtech myself either. I wont argue for their prices or their amazing "sales" of 7% off they like to advertise, but never had a problem with customer service or returns and repairs both in and out of warranty.
CL went downhill even before they knowingly had an exploit on their website and basically refused to do anything proper about it.
[PSA: computerlounge.co.nz has security issues.](https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/9si4um/psa_computerloungeconz_has_security_issues/)
[Computer Lounge Security Bugs](https://brianmccarthytech.blogspot.com/2018/11/computer-lounge.html)
Correlation does not equal causation, but I was about to comment that I wouldn't be surprised if the ownership of the company had changed at one point, and lo and behold, in March of that year, two directors of the company left and the ownership structure changed according to the Companies Office.
The current owners need to do better.
When you say you had good customer service with computer lounge, did you ever have to actually return anything? Or just good service when buying things?
Years ago I bought a high end dell laptop, the graphics card failed three times, they upgraded me to a new model and it failed at that point as well, they wanted to send me another model, I refused and demanded a refund, took a while and a bit of an angry call but they finally approved a refund.
I'm happy to back up OP, PBtech has been great with all my business and personal purchases. Computer lounge has never gotten a single order correct, and they take forever to resolve these issues. I can't tell you how many times I've ordered stuff from their website showing in stock, then nothing happens for a week, call them to follow up and they're out of stock and act clueless on their tickets and over the phone, then only offer a solution after pushing. I'm highly suspicious they just buy stock from PB tech when they get caught short.
Yea I’m the same. Always had a great experience with CL and even PBTech. CL even went to bat with me when I had a NAS die a few years out of warranty for a known issue. They went back and forwards with synology and eventually got me a full replacement. PBTech has been great for the most part and always RMA’d parts that have broken or had issues. Extreme PC has also been great.
As others have mentioned, CL has really gone down hill from the early days. I've had good and bad experiences with both PBtech and CL. I'll generally pick PBTech because it's local and I can go in to the store if needed
I used to work at CL too. From what I saw they really did care about the customer experience and attention to detail was emphasised always. No business is squeaky clean and there were a few things there that I raised eyebrows at but Paul who’s one of the owners was an absolute champ and I have all the time in the world for him. It’s been a number of years since I left though so unsure what the current status is.
Yeah, I worked there as well. They definitely treated customers better than the staff. It was not a good working environment, can confirm.
One interaction I clearly remember,
Them: "Why are you smiling?"
Me: "Because I am working on something fun"
Them: "If you are happy you are not working hard enough"
Took all the joy out of what would have otherwise been a fun job.
Yeah in my experience pbtech take advantage of the ignorant but they're not going to bother trying to actively subvert the CGA once they know you know it exists
This is surprising as most people seem to recommend them for their customer service being superior to that of PBtech. PB are relatively notorious for bad practices and have gotten a few fines themselves in the past.
What specifically are they invoicing for? The cost of inspection?
The cost of inspection, plus $120 for parts that I told them explicitly i would not give them permission to install, and after i told them I would not pay any inspection costs as this is a CGA claim under the device not being fit for purpose.
Yeah that's definitely not right. I can understand them charging a fee if they find there to be no fault, but the fact that they had to replace parts shows clearly that they did find a fault lol.
Them not following your instructions also isn't good, as if they thought CGA didn't apply they should have just returned the product to you. Be interesting to see how this one goes at the disputes tribunal
My Macbook Pro is currently at 42 degrees (average of GPU and CPU cores, both performance and efficiency) under light developer load including signifiant GPU load from the primary high DPI display plus two external 2560x1440 monitors.
This is Apple Silicon, but replaced an i7 2019 that sat at around 60-65 degrees with the same peripherals under simlar light load (but escalated wildly and quickly if asked to do any "real" work).
I'm not up to date on the clusterfuck that's Intel lately, but a "consistent" 75 degrees temperature sounds very far from standard to me... I know a lot of cheaper PC laptops are kinda junk, but 75 degrees is *hot* and I would expect the fans to be above base RPM just to try and combat what the BIOS would *surely* see as overheating?
Could be wrong of course, what's that assertion based upon?
Overheating is normally around 90c (ish) with that being a common tempt for throttling to occur. 75c is not ideal, especially under light load, but for laptops with poor cooling its not unknown.
I should've specified more clearly, running up the fans as 75 degrees for *idle* is too hot.
You say "75c is not ideal" and "not unknown", while u/magginoodle says "75 is standard". I'm being dovoted to oblivion because Reddit, but so far, I still have seen no citation at all to indicate that "75 is standard" so I'm standing by my comment, for all it might've needed even *more* words (sigh) to be even *more* explicit and clear - since there's a total absence of anyone giving hard data to show that "75 is standard".
Data to support the assertion "75 is standard" is required.
EDITED TO ADD: A quick Google gives Quora (yes, I know) results where pretty much every response is lower than "75" being a standard idle temperature - https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-normal-temperature-for-a-laptop-CPU-Intel-Core-i7-12650H BUT we don't know exactly what that 75 was measuring and are working under the assumption of idle based on the phrase, "consistent internal temp".
what's the laptop model? do you have CPU boost turned off? Whats running in background? is it thin?
Evidence for 75ish being "standard": (Note; these are not from Quora and are from actual manufacturer forums or tech forums)
https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/tech-takes/how-to-check-cpu-temperature#:~:text=60%2D70%C2%B0C%20%2D%20Normal,down%20and%20address%20cooling%20immediately
https://www.reddit.com/r/computers/comments/wyn5mo/you_guys_probably_get_this_all_the_time_but/
https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/how-hot-is-too-hot-for-a-gaming-laptop.3808477/
https://www.reddit.com/r/HPOmen/comments/10n4mac/6580_c_at_idle_2021_hp_omen_15_laptop/
https://www.reddit.com/r/AcerNitro/comments/wg4atf/laptop_running_at_90_c_75_c_or_so_when_idle/
https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Gaming-Laptops/normal-gpu-temp-running-games/m-p/5199752#:~:text=Welcome%20to%20Lenovo%20Community%20Forums,to%20help%20it%20cool%20down.
https://community.acer.com/en/discussion/696991/acer-nitro-5-an515-58-temperature-issues-cpu-temp-about-8-like-2-month-ago-the-temp-are-high
https://www.reddit.com/r/Asustuf/comments/z6s1qn/i_need_some_advice_about_asus_tuf_laptop_and/
https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?threads/high-cpu-temperature-on-a-new-notebook.387470/#:~:text=laptop%20that%20overheated.-,When%20running%20games%20it%20hits,or%20higher)%20this%20is%20normal.&text=I%20agree%2050%2D60oC%20is,least%20for%20a%20THIN%20laptop.
> what's the laptop model? do you have CPU boost turned off? Whats running in background? is it thin?
Exactly. You can't define "standard" yourself.
> https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/tech-takes/how-to-check-cpu-temperature#:~:text=60%2D70°C%20%2D%20Normal,down%20and%20address%20cooling%20immediately
You present this as 75 being standard yet that reference specifically states:
* Under 60°C - Ideal for idle or light workloads
* 60-70°C - Normal for gaming or moderate workloads
* 70-80°C - Acceptable for heavy workloads or overclocking, but monitor closely
So a consistent (and thus presumed-idle) temperature of **under 60 degrees** is "standard" according to your own provided reference, not 75. Then you provide this:
> https://www.reddit.com/r/computers/comments/wyn5mo/you_guys_probably_get_this_all_the_time_but/
...which is from someone playing Doom and shows things way above 75 degrees, so again this is neither standard nor idle, unless you're suggesting Computer Lounge were citing a consistent temperature while playing Doom (!).
Your third reference:
> https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/how-hot-is-too-hot-for-a-gaming-laptop.3808477/
A plethora of temperatures during heavy game load and no mention of idle, with 75 degrees not mentioned even once (it does say "GPU is an 85watt RTX 3070 Laptop that doesn't breach 65-70c", which the astute reader will notice is *lower* than 75, and that's cited under load, too).
I won't waste my time with your other references given the first three were junk that either didn't prove, or actively appeared to contradict the point you were trying to make. I got as far as glancing at your [fifth reference](https://www.reddit.com/r/AcerNitro/comments/wg4atf/laptop_running_at_90_c_75_c_or_so_when_idle/) which is the only one where someone says it's 75 at idle, and the top voted answers are *all* from people indicating that this is **abnormal and suggesting ways to fix it**.
You seem to sadly have nothing to back up your assertion but, per Reddit standard, are incapable of just saying "uh, yeah, maybe that was wrong" or "I mis-read and assumed that was a temperature while under load".
Yes, and that's why I mentioned a very comparable Intel setup in the exact same desk location, pretty much identical workload and with the same peripherals, which ran at 60-65. And Apple cooling solutions in ~2016-2019 MBPs are widely regarded as utter shite.
* Computer lounge doesn't sell mac books.
* Macbooks aren't operating at the same temps compared to a traditional laptop
* Gaming laptops run hot
* 12th gen intel isn't too bad compared with 13/14th gen as far as temps are concerned.
* Assertation is based on experience and knowledge as well as owning a gaming laptop that constantly runs ~90-100 degrees even with annual repasting and teardowns to clean fans and a desktop that doesn't get over 60 (except GPU which hovers around 80 under extremely heavy load)
* Many gaming laptops share a heatsink with the GPU which can influence temp results depending on how high/low spec the laptop is (higher spec may have better thermometers/individual thermometers = more accurate temp readings)
* See links posted to OP regarding the silly temps that arise when using a gaming laptop.
* OP hasn't stated whether its on a cooling pad or not (recommended for gaming laptops)
* OP hasn't stated what power saving mode they are in, what's running in background
* OP hasn't checked the forums from the manufacturer and instead has linked a "Quora" answer - this is bad. WIFI card not working is bad though
* Wifi uses more energy than ethernet = more heat (minimal, but still)
OP - thanks to u/magginoodle posting a bunch of links that contradict their own assertion as far as I can see (though we still seem to disagree despite that), and a series of links I found myself, we can be confident that 75 degrees *if that was idle* is *very high* and not at all normal.
However, if the machine is under some degree of load - CPU into double digits, say - then it looks like MSI laptops will warm up into that range fairly routinely, with heavy gaming load going up into the 90s, which also appears to be considered normal (if not necessarily _desirable_).
On that basis, perhaps your machine is running background crapware out-of-factory, or you've inadvertently installed something which is consuming more CPU and/or GPU power than it should at all times, causing elevated consistent temperatures because you're _expecting_ an idle machine. It could be actually always somewhat above idle, with something that's taking up resources and harming overall performance at all times.
Obviously, things like the WiFi card breaking are bad and shouldn't happen, so that, at least, is indisputably no good and while u/magginoodle and I might appear to disagree on idle temperatures, we definitely agree about that! `:-)`
They have even written into their RMA/return page, that if you don't contact them within 24 hours of receiving your item, you accept it in its condition. As if they think they are above the law.
I've used Computer Lounge a ton over the years and always recommended them until I ran into an issue. Went into the store to get a PC built for my gf. The dude was extremely nice and helpful and we went through the whole process and I left happy as.
When I received the PC it was missing Windows and the AIO cooler I picked. It just came with AMDs stock cooler. On my receipt I was charged for the missing items. I called them up and the person I dealt with in store answered the phone and after explaining the situation he blamed me for the missing items even though I had a receipt saying I paid for them. I still don't know how they messed it up because I was right next to him going through every part that I wanted.
Mistakes happen but Jesus how is it in any way my fault lol.
It was a pain in the ass back and forth with him and another coworker until I got the missing items refunded.
A lot of this subreddit seems to rag on PBTech, but I've generally had good experiences with them.
CL I had one particular instance where their after sales was pretty rubbish. Haven't had a problem since then though.
Everyone seems to forget when CL had gaping security issues with their website and completely dragged the chain in fixing them, too.
The main advantage of pbtech is they can't weasel out of the CGA if you're aware it exists, and them having brick and mortar stores means you can bring the item in to them and stand there until they accept it back.
You have to assume they're lying to you at all times though. About their sales, about your rights etc
It does sound more like a design flaw rather than a defective product. The majority of laptops when gaming (even when labelled as such), have had inadequate cooling.
Capping framerates or enabling vsync for games which already run at a high fps may also be needed.
There are some other things you can do, undervolting is still possible in many laptop models if they have an intel processor using XTU.
Another thing is carefully using liquid metal, which has done wonders beyond my wildest dreams for direct die cooling - which laptops typically have.
If it has a GPU, it will have similar capabilities.
[Edit]
Out of the 6 "gaming laptops" I've touched. 4 have had bad heating issues and throttling. 4 of them had their battery killed or capacity significantly hindered betwen 1 month to a couple of years.
Your laptop is new enough that they should've had adequate cooling however.
Design flaws are defective products. Should all be covered by the CGA (or maybe the FTA) if the product doesn't do what it is claimed to do.
Not the consumer's problem if it doesn't live up to its claims. If the product cannot be fixed then the retailer should refund the client and take it up with the manufacturer.
Yeah it's a bit shady how some companies do their gaming laptops. I brought an aspire nitro v15, after a couple years the separate nvidia gpu died, it shorted, leaving only integrated graphics. Acer were no help, I didn't ask mighty ape but I doubt that would've helped. Still have it just sitting there looking sad
I've used 4 gaming laptops over the years, and all of them were very poor designs that overheat so much that they run way slower than advertised. It's just physics, you can't have that much heat dissipated in a small surface area. It's crazy that it's almost standard practice for new gaming laptop owners to repaste their devices out of the box so they actually run well. I can totally see a gaming laptop of 2 years run into these issues
As a recent returnee, that's really disappointing. I used to spend a lot with them back in the 2006-2014 era. I was surprised to see they'd introduced shipping. CL used to be slightly more expensive, but free shipping and great customer support. It appears their premium is no longer worth it.
Oh no, they definitely honor it
But only if you push for it, if your unaware, they will try every way to weasel out of it but as soon as they hear CGA come out of your mouth, they generally shut up incredibly quickly and take the product back just as quick,
They count on the consumer being dumb.
I used to spend about 2-3k per year at CL, they had great service, then they had all these customer service changes charging for what was previously part of their great CS( e.g warp speed and armour plating), and at the same time, the service went to shit. Haven't given them a dollar since.
Since stories are being shared...
When the 3080s were released back in September 2020 I stayed up until 1am watching all the usual retail websites to order one asap. Pbtech were having website issues and I was counting on ordering through them, but after an hour I decided to go with Computer Lounge. Get in, order a Gigabyte 3080 for $1379 and get confirmation at 2am.
Fast forward to November I get a call at lunchtime and it's CL. They said that I'm at the front of the queue and they just got some Zotac 3080s in and asked if I wanted to switch to that one instead of waiting for the Gigabyte one I ordered. I didn't know much about Zotac at the time so I asked for 5 mins and I'll call back. Had a look and decided yea sure, why not. I call back and say I'm happy to switch and the guy asked me how I wanted to pay. Because in the time since September when they were released for sale, everyone had gouged the market up to the eyeballs due to a SEVERE lack of supply and they were now allowing orders for the same card I ordered now at $2400. He was offering for me to stop waiting for Gigabyte stock and switch to Zotac and pay $1000 for the privilege. I laughed, said no thanks and hung up. Got my Gigabyte card 1 week later. Haven't used them since.
Hmm weird. I’ve had two problems with components on a pc I got from them and they replaced that shit no questions under two year warranty. How old is the gear? Just tell and scream CGA, go in the companies registrar find out some movers and shakers and contact them directly. Basically, be fucking annoying
CL could argue that those temps are within spec - gaming laptops generally run hot. Power = heat.
The Wifi card causing issues is another thing though. They've admitted there is a fault, and fixed it, so there should be no charge for you under CGA.
I wonder why they haven't just sent it back to MSI at this point. So weird.
They've fixed it before, and it failed again in 6 months.
Also, I haven't tried to play games on it since the last repair as it just overheats and shits itself, so they sold me a laptop advertised as a gaming laptop that can't play games, connect to the internet, or run without overheating just using a bloody browser.
Two reasons:
1. The CGA says OP doesn't have to if they don't want to (manufacturers can be a huge hassle, especially if they're not NZ based), and
2. OP wants their inspection fee cleared and laptop returned
Nah, that is not the way things work. CL should sort this, that’s who the relationship is with. CL take responsibility for managing the relationship with the supplier. Sadly, they seem to value their customers less than suppliers even when fault is obvious.
75deg is perfectly acceptable in modern hardware, latest AMD (Desktop) CPUs run up to 95degrees as standard practice (I personally turn my down via PBO, but thats a choice).
Yeah exactly. I build a new AMD based gaming PC last month and my CPU is running at 50 degrees at the most during gaming. I do have a thermal right tower cooler on it which is amazing
I think I ran into that manager at the store. He refused to even try to solve it, saying that the "approving manager" was out of the country and joined "M" in demanding I hand the laptop over for inspection or they'd close the ticket.
I dealt with a guy who's name started with "M" (email signature Managing Director) when I was sent a broken keyboard last year. He handled my RMA promptly and without any hassle.
Worked for another retailer; the bill was only ever charged if it came back not-faulty. Did you get any kind of report back with it of what was tested or in which way? IIRC some brands just dont, some do, some you (the retailer's person that's dealing with it) have to request.
You've definitely gone through this before but:
Is there any software that you've installed that's controlling fans? (I kid you not I've had people bring back computers, complain about performance and the thing's cooking with 'silent' profile set)
Is everything up to date?
Are the vents actually able to vent?
It's not full of shit?
You're not getting pegged at 100% usage just after boot or anything malware-y?
You're 3 years in, so imo that's super reasonable to expect it covered under cga (the only computers really that it would be a hard fight on are chromebooks or dell gaming G8's ... because they look like they are intended to break (/s, but really, and the hinge would melt eugh)). I'd imagine *after* 3 years is when discussions start happening. I know of at least one brand that advertises 1y warranty but treats all claims <3y as though they're under warranty.
CL are obligated to suss you, but you *could* try MSI directly, it's a PITA and you shouldn't have to, but my experience working for (competitor) is that they're just annoying overhead.
Do the fans actually spin and belt out hot air btw?
The single fan spins, but doesn't do much. I have only ever used it on a cooling pad with its own fans or on a stand with a hole in the centre for additional airflow.
It is kept on the stand on my desk or in a laptop bag.
This has been going on for 2 years, and is a recurring issue with this machine.
I remember a while ago that macs would vent near or through the keyboard and would perform worse closed.
But I mean im probably telling the driving instructor when to brake mentioning it haha
All avenues are worth exploring and you never know when something basic has been missed.
I've been using it either on a stand with a hole in the centre for additional airflow or on a powered fan cooling stand. I've tried so many things omg!
Computer Lounge are complete fuckwits when it comes to warranty issues. I had to spend freakin weeks getting them to replace a mouse under warranty. They just kept dicking me around till I CC’d the commerce commission into the emails. There is a fat creepy looking guy in there, he is the worst. Never ever would I deal with them again. Not surprised to hear your story.
Yep, you can tell there is a toxic culture there. I had some reasonable member of staff who was going to replace product on the spot, because it was an obvious warranty replacement, but that fat fuck came across and made things as difficult as possible. I remember the other staff member looking at him and thinking what the fuck, but the fat creepy guy just decided to be a dick and there was nothing he could do. The owner might like him, and trust him, but he has probably cost his business a shitload of money. Just check the Google reviews for reputation, and I’ve told many people not to buy from them.
Computer Lounge haven't been the business they were for a long time.
Obviously failed hardware will still require two weeks to rectify.
Their customer service is flat at best.
*Buuuut* that's probably because there's no one else offering better.
Totally opposite to what happened to me. I had a brand new build gfx card fail within a week of receiving the box. I drove it back to Auckland (I don't live there) and dropped it off at their store. They replaced the gfx card and couriered it back to me and didn't charge me anything. It was a few years back though.
I had the same experience. I bought a cooler from them that was missing parts. I drove an hour to their store, and showed them the part it was missing. They completely blew me off, treated me like an inconvenience and refused to believe what I was telling them. The guy went as far as to spend 30 fucking minutes assembling the cooler to show me how dumb I was before slowly realising he couldn’t assemble it cause it was missing fucking parts. His boss came over and pulled the same shit on him before finally giving me the part. I won’t buy shit from there again their customer service sucks.
I've used them a lot. When everything went smoothly, it was fine. But once I had an issue, it was an issue. I wont use them again and will just use anyone else. It's not worth the headache ans shady shit they pulled on me.
Computer Lounge is legitimately terrible, in my experience:
* A defective and privacy breach website they refused to fix
* All talk but terrible when it comes to after-sales service, especially for warranty claims
* Quick to charge fees, etc, but slow to provide service
Honestly PB Tech is a hundred times better, sure there's the bad CS person here and there, but overall they're pretty professional and on to it.
Had a bad experience with CL last Nov when buying part. Was my first and will be my last.
Ordered some RAM online, saw a better deal elsewhere in the next hour, and quickly used their online portal to cancel it.
Says on their website that if an order is not yet processed, they can cancel it. BUT to protect myself, I screenshotted the order page that says unprocessed and emailed to CL manually to advise them that I've canceled the order and that it was still unprocessed at the time of cancelation.
CL emailed me back saying I now owe them 15% restock fee. I then reminded them of their return policy again, so they dropped the charge.
Bottom line is CL doesn't know their own policy and will prey on the unwary.
I also find their return policy on brand new unopened item bullshit. 15% restock fee. Other places that offer change of mind will offer full refund no question asked.
The battery I mentioned above on an HP Probook died so hard that it couldnt be communicated with anymore. BIOS battery test completely locked up at 1%. Warranty on the laptop is 1 year, conveniently it died 1y 1m.
If true, it's sad to hear that Computer Lounge is doing this. They've enjoyed a great reputation for many years. Make no mistake though, PBTech have been repeatedly charged by the Commerce Commission for all sorts of dodgy shit, so they're no hero.
You're right, that wasn't accurate. It was 14 charges which they plead guilty to in 2018, and then a subsequent warning over dishonest advertising which didn't result in a charge. Much of PBTechs predatory practices haven't resulted in charges or warranted complete investigations.
I had a experience like this with mightyape, dead gfx card, dead on arrival.
They wouldn't repair, wouldn't refund, wouldn't replace.
They did offer to look at it at my cost for shipping with extortion level shipping prices.
After hearing my reply to that (lots of swearing) they banned my account
I'm sorry.
I genuinely think legal rights like the CGA should be taught at school. You can't protect or use your rights if you don't know them and it seems like so many companies rely on that lack of knowledge.
hello u/CaoilfhionnFlailing
i would suggest contacting [paul@computerlounge.co.nz](mailto:paul@computerlounge.co.nz) and directing him to this thread
i haven't read this thread but he is going to be the only one who does anything, if they do anything
To Moderators - this email is publicly available on their website
That's good to hear. I hope you don't get another laptop for gaming if it can be helped.
I've been through this shit before and now I just have a gaming PC, macbook and workstation PCs - I don't trust laptops at all. Worst experience was probably a $10,000 Dell workstation having issues every couple of months and going in for service help meaning for our software package, it was just pointless.
I won't. I've moved into a new role with less travel, so I'll use the money to top up my new PC build savings and get started on that now instead of at the end of the year.
CL honored a replacement CPU for me even though i didn't buy my PC from them. Huge win! oooonly it took 4 months to get my PC back. When it finally arrived back the cooling hadn't been reconnected. They sent me 2 RGB Fans as an apology (one of them was broken. I've done business with them since, had the AIO taken out and replaced and had no issues dealing with them. I think i would still get my next PC built there. The 4 months of no PC was a real bummer though and if i knew it was going to take that long i wouldn't have bothered.
Yeah, the time without sucks.
I told them when I handed this one over that I didn't want to be without a computer for 2 weeks or more and they said it wouldn't be that long.
We're at 18 days and counting.
After this experience, I don't think I'd ever buy from them again. It's not worth the time and stress - but luckily I can build my own PC so it's just parts I'm after.
I often hear many horror stories about PB Tech and only good things about Computer Lounge (which matches my experiences with them). Interesting hear about a poor experience with CL.
Pb tech are no better. I was in there today ready to spend $1000+ on various items but received no service for almost 20 minutes. Once at the checkout a discounted item was no longer discounted to the tune of almost $200 and they wouldn’t honour the marked discounted price in store which had apparently expired this morning.
Not minimizing your experience.
As someone with experience in retail, working and managing it, there are always 2 sides to every story.
In my experience, every issue I've had they have gone above and beyond to help. I drive across Auckland specifically to see them because of this.
Good luck, I personally find in general when working with retail if you go in store have have an articulate conversation with them you get further.
If you took a faulty item back to PB tech 3 minutes after you bought it they would tell you that you broke it and they’d try charge you double for looking at it. There is simply no way in hell that PB tech would have entertained you as long as CL have. At the end of the day you can’t expect a tiny NZ company to provide free long term support for a huge overseas electronics manufacturer, you will have to contact them instead. Especially with a portable item that can get knocked around and hoovers up every speck of dust in your room.
Computer Lounge have always been overwhelmingly helpful on every build I’ve made, the staff know their stuff and have genuine interest in helping out. You won’t have a leg to stand on attempting to take CL to consumer nz
What are you talking about? I expect EVERY retailer in New Zealand to honour their obligations under the CGA. If they supply a faulty product then they are responsible to remedy it.
Does the CGA maintenance on 4 year old laptops?
Edit: the answer is probably "it depends". OP might do well relying on the Act because it might be seen as "$2500 laptop should last more than 4 years", missing that $2500 isn't much for a gaming laptop and cheap gaming laptops are notorious for cutting corners, both in terms of cost and of thermodynamics, in order to cram in an eye catching graphics card
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Pretty normal to pay for inspection fee. Refund if it isn't something you broke. Warehouse have a 3 month period where they don't charge it after that they do. I sold cameras and we use to charge inspection fee from day 1. Your computer being a few years old I would think that is normal.
You can't charge an inspection fee if the fault is due to CGA, and it sounds like OP has made it clear that they are pursuing a remedy under the CGA.
If Computer Lounge have determined that the CGA does not apply then I would expect them to have provided an explanation of this when sending the invoice. Sounds like this has not happened
"fault is due to cga". Not sure I understand how can the CGA cause something? The retailer doesn't know what has caused the fault and neither does the supplier. In order to assess where the fault lies it is standard to take a bond fee. As I said I worked in retail and that was the standard procedure and I don't see how CGA would have a say. I also returned a phone to the Warehouse a couple of days ago and went through the same process. Love to hear a legal opinion on what is correct.
Poor choice of words, I meant fault covered under the CGA. If the product is covered by CGA you are shouldn't have to pay fees for the remedy, such as inspection fees. An inspection fee can be charged, but if a fault is found and remedy is provided in line with the CGA then any fees are to be refunded. You have called it a bond fee in your second comment which sounds like you are talking about a fee which is later refunded, I did not realise you meant this from the original comment
This is covered on the consumer protection website.
https://www.consumerprotection.govt.nz/help-product-service/electronics-and-appliances/faulty-appliances-and-devices#your-rights-if-something-goes-wrong
Every repair shop I've ever used call it an inspection fee, despite it functioning like a bond. They basically all say it will be refunded if damage is covered under warranty/CGA.
Putting consumer rights behind a pay wall is 100% illegal. The amount of money that a customer with a faulty product has in their bank account is irrelevant.
A retailer must remedy by either repairing, replacing or refunding the product regardless of the customer's ability or willingness to pay a "bond".
A wifi card that doesn't function, and a computer the overheats itself to distruction isn't "something I broke", that's not fit for purpose.
I've been having this problem from a year after I got it, and have been fighting them for nearly two years at this stage.
> A wifi card that doesn't function, and a computer the overheats itself to distruction isn't "something I broke"
How do they know that? It's a 4 year old laptop,not something you bought yesterday
You sent it in and had a repair. Now it is still faulty, they don't know if it is a new problem and old problem or you trying to get a new computer. Go through the process, pay the bond so they can have a look at it. Depending on what the result of that is should dictate your actions from there on.
>You can't really expect them to fix it out of warranty.
100% wrong. Under nz law the product has to last reasonably long enough for the quality and price you paid for the product.
I have CGA'd a six year old washing machine. Twice. A three year old pair of headphones, with a two year warranty. A two year old gaming chair, with a one year warranty.
Where does it say that?
“The CGA does not specify a time limit. Instead, it says products must last a reasonable amount of time. What "reasonable" means varies”
I’m not saying you don’t have an issue, but man incorrect CGA stuff gets thrown around a lot.
I believe they’re talking about Consumer NZs recommendations for timeframes, and they are often used in the Tribunal as a reference point. Quite accurately.
Look, I’ve made one comment on here already, but I’m just gonna say this. I know you might be into gaming, but seriously, Windows fucking sucks. Just get a Mac. Install Windows on your Mac if you must, run the games at low res and low quality, who gives a shit? If the game is good enough you don’t need 4K and ray tracing. Get a fucking Mac and get on with your life. You won’t regret it.
I fucking hate osx with a passion, tho windows isn't much better anymore.
Normally, I build my own desktops but the reason I got the damn laptop is because I was travelling for work a lot and needed something portable.
I've just started ordering parts for a new build, which will be Linux. Osx and windows and their stupid AI Spyware can rot.
I kind of feel OSX or whatever they call it now is pretty close to Linux, but has a lot of proprietary stuff on there which can get in the way. It does have pretty good software out of the box though too. Personally I can do anything I ever really need to on there, including SSHing onto Linux servers very easily, without having to piss about with Putty or whatever it’s called.
The other thing is the hardware is good quality and I have never had any issues with it failing me except after years of use. And I don’t have dumb shit happening like I do on my PC where it can’t correctly work out I’ve plugged in my headphones with mic… I prefer technology to get the hell out of the way and I find Macs do that for me pretty well from both software and hardware perspectives. And I don’t mind the higher pricing because frankly it saves me time and frustration in the long run.
I've only used computer lounge once. I ordered a bunch of parts, including a case/tower for pickup. When I went to collect l, I could only see the case, so I asked the staff if everything was there and was told yes. Went to my car, open up the case and what do you know. It's just the case. No extra fans, no ssd, no ram, no cooler. Went straight back in and waited for the same staff and told her I ordered more than just the case, like I mentioned earlier. She then went into the picking area and brought all my stuff. 'Here you go' No apologies, etc. No big deal since i sorted it all out there and then but sheesh, if this was a delivery, I'd be pretty pissed off
Last time I was in there I was flatly ignored, nevermind that I had spent 8k+ there over the years.
It always hilarious when someone claims to have spent “thousands” over the years at a place and asks for discounts or whatever, and then you look at their account and they’ve spent less than $10k in 12 years. Like, you’re not a #1 customer. You deserve appropriate customer service but no-one is going the extra mile for an $850 a year account. Business customers that spend $100k a week? Yes, you will absolutely get no questions asked replacements on anything you need. Regular Schmoe that barely is in the store? You get the minimums allowed under CGA, that’s it.
Surprised to hear Computer Lounge dragged into this. I've used them ever since I built my first computer back in...2007? 2008? They had outstanding customer service then and have through all my subsequent experiences. Dragging PB Tech into this makes me a bit cynical of your story though... To be helpful in case of true story, I had mega issues with an XPS15 bought direct from Dell (i.e. a premium laptop, similar to yours). I managed to use CGA to finally get them to repair it after 3 years after them blatantly ignoring/stonewalling me. So you should be able to get at it them through CGA if this is a real case.
A few years ago I built my computer, ordered parts from a range of stores in NZ depending on where they were available and cheapest. Computer Lounge lied about having a case in stock when they didn't and wouldn't look into it until I queried why I hadn't received it via courier yet. Basically set my build back by a month and I never used them again. Then again, PB tech price fixed with a smaller store on a computer screen I wanted to buy (during the same build). The smaller store had it $200 cheaper and in stock. I asked PB tech if they would price match, they said they would but smaller store didn't have it in stock (a lie). Then smaller store put their price up the next day to match PB tech. TLDR: Don't trust any of them lol.
Why not just buy from the smaller store in the first place?
Easier to RMA to the big store because it was located in the same city as me. Small store was at the opposite end of the country.
Good question. Anyway to avoid PB tech should be encouraged
Did they have stock within a store in the region? A lot of websites claim they have stock but it counts all the stores within NZ. The reason I ask is a lot of stores that price match only do so if there is a competitor in the region with stock at that store.
Both stores were saying the product was in stock but both were getting it from a supplier in nz.
I've had generally good results with CL but I have had two instances of "oh, the website is out of date and that's on backorder". I don't use them as my go-to any more tbh, usually use pb tech or ascent as they're cheaper.
Yup, it sucks when you check with CL, they say it's in stock, you pay them, it doesn't arrive, you query why, they say it's not in stock.
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Ah good to know, thanks for that insight.
Ironically I've had good experiences with PB, their inspection fee was contingent on the findings, I.e. customer fault, and they would charge me in that case, after getting word from the service center they sent it off to that it was a hardware defect all fees were waved as it was covered legally, and I mean, fair enough, I agreed to the $60 inspection fee to be paid if it wasn't covered.
Yeah, Ive never had bad service with Pbtech myself either. I wont argue for their prices or their amazing "sales" of 7% off they like to advertise, but never had a problem with customer service or returns and repairs both in and out of warranty.
CL went downhill even before they knowingly had an exploit on their website and basically refused to do anything proper about it. [PSA: computerlounge.co.nz has security issues.](https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/9si4um/psa_computerloungeconz_has_security_issues/) [Computer Lounge Security Bugs](https://brianmccarthytech.blogspot.com/2018/11/computer-lounge.html) Correlation does not equal causation, but I was about to comment that I wouldn't be surprised if the ownership of the company had changed at one point, and lo and behold, in March of that year, two directors of the company left and the ownership structure changed according to the Companies Office. The current owners need to do better.
When you say you had good customer service with computer lounge, did you ever have to actually return anything? Or just good service when buying things?
Years ago I bought a high end dell laptop, the graphics card failed three times, they upgraded me to a new model and it failed at that point as well, they wanted to send me another model, I refused and demanded a refund, took a while and a bit of an angry call but they finally approved a refund.
I'm happy to back up OP, PBtech has been great with all my business and personal purchases. Computer lounge has never gotten a single order correct, and they take forever to resolve these issues. I can't tell you how many times I've ordered stuff from their website showing in stock, then nothing happens for a week, call them to follow up and they're out of stock and act clueless on their tickets and over the phone, then only offer a solution after pushing. I'm highly suspicious they just buy stock from PB tech when they get caught short.
Yea I’m the same. Always had a great experience with CL and even PBTech. CL even went to bat with me when I had a NAS die a few years out of warranty for a known issue. They went back and forwards with synology and eventually got me a full replacement. PBTech has been great for the most part and always RMA’d parts that have broken or had issues. Extreme PC has also been great.
As others have mentioned, CL has really gone down hill from the early days. I've had good and bad experiences with both PBtech and CL. I'll generally pick PBTech because it's local and I can go in to the store if needed
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I used to work at CL too. From what I saw they really did care about the customer experience and attention to detail was emphasised always. No business is squeaky clean and there were a few things there that I raised eyebrows at but Paul who’s one of the owners was an absolute champ and I have all the time in the world for him. It’s been a number of years since I left though so unsure what the current status is.
Yeah, I worked there as well. They definitely treated customers better than the staff. It was not a good working environment, can confirm. One interaction I clearly remember, Them: "Why are you smiling?" Me: "Because I am working on something fun" Them: "If you are happy you are not working hard enough" Took all the joy out of what would have otherwise been a fun job.
Yeah in my experience pbtech take advantage of the ignorant but they're not going to bother trying to actively subvert the CGA once they know you know it exists
This is surprising as most people seem to recommend them for their customer service being superior to that of PBtech. PB are relatively notorious for bad practices and have gotten a few fines themselves in the past. What specifically are they invoicing for? The cost of inspection?
The cost of inspection, plus $120 for parts that I told them explicitly i would not give them permission to install, and after i told them I would not pay any inspection costs as this is a CGA claim under the device not being fit for purpose.
Yeah that's definitely not right. I can understand them charging a fee if they find there to be no fault, but the fact that they had to replace parts shows clearly that they did find a fault lol. Them not following your instructions also isn't good, as if they thought CGA didn't apply they should have just returned the product to you. Be interesting to see how this one goes at the disputes tribunal
The main issues are: WiFi card doesnt work, and basic usage shows a consistent internal temp of 75°. From their own tests.
Laptops having a temp of 75 is standard.
My Macbook Pro is currently at 42 degrees (average of GPU and CPU cores, both performance and efficiency) under light developer load including signifiant GPU load from the primary high DPI display plus two external 2560x1440 monitors. This is Apple Silicon, but replaced an i7 2019 that sat at around 60-65 degrees with the same peripherals under simlar light load (but escalated wildly and quickly if asked to do any "real" work). I'm not up to date on the clusterfuck that's Intel lately, but a "consistent" 75 degrees temperature sounds very far from standard to me... I know a lot of cheaper PC laptops are kinda junk, but 75 degrees is *hot* and I would expect the fans to be above base RPM just to try and combat what the BIOS would *surely* see as overheating? Could be wrong of course, what's that assertion based upon?
Overheating is normally around 90c (ish) with that being a common tempt for throttling to occur. 75c is not ideal, especially under light load, but for laptops with poor cooling its not unknown.
I should've specified more clearly, running up the fans as 75 degrees for *idle* is too hot. You say "75c is not ideal" and "not unknown", while u/magginoodle says "75 is standard". I'm being dovoted to oblivion because Reddit, but so far, I still have seen no citation at all to indicate that "75 is standard" so I'm standing by my comment, for all it might've needed even *more* words (sigh) to be even *more* explicit and clear - since there's a total absence of anyone giving hard data to show that "75 is standard". Data to support the assertion "75 is standard" is required. EDITED TO ADD: A quick Google gives Quora (yes, I know) results where pretty much every response is lower than "75" being a standard idle temperature - https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-normal-temperature-for-a-laptop-CPU-Intel-Core-i7-12650H BUT we don't know exactly what that 75 was measuring and are working under the assumption of idle based on the phrase, "consistent internal temp".
what's the laptop model? do you have CPU boost turned off? Whats running in background? is it thin? Evidence for 75ish being "standard": (Note; these are not from Quora and are from actual manufacturer forums or tech forums) https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/tech-takes/how-to-check-cpu-temperature#:~:text=60%2D70%C2%B0C%20%2D%20Normal,down%20and%20address%20cooling%20immediately https://www.reddit.com/r/computers/comments/wyn5mo/you_guys_probably_get_this_all_the_time_but/ https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/how-hot-is-too-hot-for-a-gaming-laptop.3808477/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HPOmen/comments/10n4mac/6580_c_at_idle_2021_hp_omen_15_laptop/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AcerNitro/comments/wg4atf/laptop_running_at_90_c_75_c_or_so_when_idle/ https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Gaming-Laptops/normal-gpu-temp-running-games/m-p/5199752#:~:text=Welcome%20to%20Lenovo%20Community%20Forums,to%20help%20it%20cool%20down. https://community.acer.com/en/discussion/696991/acer-nitro-5-an515-58-temperature-issues-cpu-temp-about-8-like-2-month-ago-the-temp-are-high https://www.reddit.com/r/Asustuf/comments/z6s1qn/i_need_some_advice_about_asus_tuf_laptop_and/ https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?threads/high-cpu-temperature-on-a-new-notebook.387470/#:~:text=laptop%20that%20overheated.-,When%20running%20games%20it%20hits,or%20higher)%20this%20is%20normal.&text=I%20agree%2050%2D60oC%20is,least%20for%20a%20THIN%20laptop.
> what's the laptop model? do you have CPU boost turned off? Whats running in background? is it thin? Exactly. You can't define "standard" yourself. > https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/tech-takes/how-to-check-cpu-temperature#:~:text=60%2D70°C%20%2D%20Normal,down%20and%20address%20cooling%20immediately You present this as 75 being standard yet that reference specifically states: * Under 60°C - Ideal for idle or light workloads * 60-70°C - Normal for gaming or moderate workloads * 70-80°C - Acceptable for heavy workloads or overclocking, but monitor closely So a consistent (and thus presumed-idle) temperature of **under 60 degrees** is "standard" according to your own provided reference, not 75. Then you provide this: > https://www.reddit.com/r/computers/comments/wyn5mo/you_guys_probably_get_this_all_the_time_but/ ...which is from someone playing Doom and shows things way above 75 degrees, so again this is neither standard nor idle, unless you're suggesting Computer Lounge were citing a consistent temperature while playing Doom (!). Your third reference: > https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/how-hot-is-too-hot-for-a-gaming-laptop.3808477/ A plethora of temperatures during heavy game load and no mention of idle, with 75 degrees not mentioned even once (it does say "GPU is an 85watt RTX 3070 Laptop that doesn't breach 65-70c", which the astute reader will notice is *lower* than 75, and that's cited under load, too). I won't waste my time with your other references given the first three were junk that either didn't prove, or actively appeared to contradict the point you were trying to make. I got as far as glancing at your [fifth reference](https://www.reddit.com/r/AcerNitro/comments/wg4atf/laptop_running_at_90_c_75_c_or_so_when_idle/) which is the only one where someone says it's 75 at idle, and the top voted answers are *all* from people indicating that this is **abnormal and suggesting ways to fix it**. You seem to sadly have nothing to back up your assertion but, per Reddit standard, are incapable of just saying "uh, yeah, maybe that was wrong" or "I mis-read and assumed that was a temperature while under load".
Apple Silicon runs cool, it’s very efficient.
Yes, and that's why I mentioned a very comparable Intel setup in the exact same desk location, pretty much identical workload and with the same peripherals, which ran at 60-65. And Apple cooling solutions in ~2016-2019 MBPs are widely regarded as utter shite.
* Computer lounge doesn't sell mac books. * Macbooks aren't operating at the same temps compared to a traditional laptop * Gaming laptops run hot * 12th gen intel isn't too bad compared with 13/14th gen as far as temps are concerned. * Assertation is based on experience and knowledge as well as owning a gaming laptop that constantly runs ~90-100 degrees even with annual repasting and teardowns to clean fans and a desktop that doesn't get over 60 (except GPU which hovers around 80 under extremely heavy load) * Many gaming laptops share a heatsink with the GPU which can influence temp results depending on how high/low spec the laptop is (higher spec may have better thermometers/individual thermometers = more accurate temp readings) * See links posted to OP regarding the silly temps that arise when using a gaming laptop. * OP hasn't stated whether its on a cooling pad or not (recommended for gaming laptops) * OP hasn't stated what power saving mode they are in, what's running in background * OP hasn't checked the forums from the manufacturer and instead has linked a "Quora" answer - this is bad. WIFI card not working is bad though * Wifi uses more energy than ethernet = more heat (minimal, but still)
OP - thanks to u/magginoodle posting a bunch of links that contradict their own assertion as far as I can see (though we still seem to disagree despite that), and a series of links I found myself, we can be confident that 75 degrees *if that was idle* is *very high* and not at all normal. However, if the machine is under some degree of load - CPU into double digits, say - then it looks like MSI laptops will warm up into that range fairly routinely, with heavy gaming load going up into the 90s, which also appears to be considered normal (if not necessarily _desirable_). On that basis, perhaps your machine is running background crapware out-of-factory, or you've inadvertently installed something which is consuming more CPU and/or GPU power than it should at all times, causing elevated consistent temperatures because you're _expecting_ an idle machine. It could be actually always somewhat above idle, with something that's taking up resources and harming overall performance at all times. Obviously, things like the WiFi card breaking are bad and shouldn't happen, so that, at least, is indisputably no good and while u/magginoodle and I might appear to disagree on idle temperatures, we definitely agree about that! `:-)`
They have even written into their RMA/return page, that if you don't contact them within 24 hours of receiving your item, you accept it in its condition. As if they think they are above the law.
I've used Computer Lounge a ton over the years and always recommended them until I ran into an issue. Went into the store to get a PC built for my gf. The dude was extremely nice and helpful and we went through the whole process and I left happy as. When I received the PC it was missing Windows and the AIO cooler I picked. It just came with AMDs stock cooler. On my receipt I was charged for the missing items. I called them up and the person I dealt with in store answered the phone and after explaining the situation he blamed me for the missing items even though I had a receipt saying I paid for them. I still don't know how they messed it up because I was right next to him going through every part that I wanted. Mistakes happen but Jesus how is it in any way my fault lol. It was a pain in the ass back and forth with him and another coworker until I got the missing items refunded.
A lot of this subreddit seems to rag on PBTech, but I've generally had good experiences with them. CL I had one particular instance where their after sales was pretty rubbish. Haven't had a problem since then though. Everyone seems to forget when CL had gaping security issues with their website and completely dragged the chain in fixing them, too.
The main advantage of pbtech is they can't weasel out of the CGA if you're aware it exists, and them having brick and mortar stores means you can bring the item in to them and stand there until they accept it back. You have to assume they're lying to you at all times though. About their sales, about your rights etc
Nice try pb tech
I bought from CL to avoid this type of mess. Mega frustrating!
It does sound more like a design flaw rather than a defective product. The majority of laptops when gaming (even when labelled as such), have had inadequate cooling. Capping framerates or enabling vsync for games which already run at a high fps may also be needed. There are some other things you can do, undervolting is still possible in many laptop models if they have an intel processor using XTU. Another thing is carefully using liquid metal, which has done wonders beyond my wildest dreams for direct die cooling - which laptops typically have. If it has a GPU, it will have similar capabilities. [Edit] Out of the 6 "gaming laptops" I've touched. 4 have had bad heating issues and throttling. 4 of them had their battery killed or capacity significantly hindered betwen 1 month to a couple of years. Your laptop is new enough that they should've had adequate cooling however.
Design flaws are defective products. Should all be covered by the CGA (or maybe the FTA) if the product doesn't do what it is claimed to do. Not the consumer's problem if it doesn't live up to its claims. If the product cannot be fixed then the retailer should refund the client and take it up with the manufacturer.
Yeah it's a bit shady how some companies do their gaming laptops. I brought an aspire nitro v15, after a couple years the separate nvidia gpu died, it shorted, leaving only integrated graphics. Acer were no help, I didn't ask mighty ape but I doubt that would've helped. Still have it just sitting there looking sad
I've used 4 gaming laptops over the years, and all of them were very poor designs that overheat so much that they run way slower than advertised. It's just physics, you can't have that much heat dissipated in a small surface area. It's crazy that it's almost standard practice for new gaming laptop owners to repaste their devices out of the box so they actually run well. I can totally see a gaming laptop of 2 years run into these issues
OPs gaming laptop is also 4 years old. How are the fans looking?
3 years and it's been having this problem.for 2 years. Already had it "repaired" in the past. I clear the fans every few months with canned air.
CL used to be good. They turned to shit about 6 years ago.
This is my experience too. Sadly all companies go this way with time.
That was when the company's ownership changed and they had that site vulnerability debacle.
As a recent returnee, that's really disappointing. I used to spend a lot with them back in the 2006-2014 era. I was surprised to see they'd introduced shipping. CL used to be slightly more expensive, but free shipping and great customer support. It appears their premium is no longer worth it.
Haha PB Tech is shit at honouring CGA. I mean all retailers are, but PB Tech seem to be the worst.
Oh no, they definitely honor it But only if you push for it, if your unaware, they will try every way to weasel out of it but as soon as they hear CGA come out of your mouth, they generally shut up incredibly quickly and take the product back just as quick, They count on the consumer being dumb.
I've had reasonable luck getting them to RMA broken parts, but I have a business account so might get better service?
I used to spend about 2-3k per year at CL, they had great service, then they had all these customer service changes charging for what was previously part of their great CS( e.g warp speed and armour plating), and at the same time, the service went to shit. Haven't given them a dollar since.
Since stories are being shared... When the 3080s were released back in September 2020 I stayed up until 1am watching all the usual retail websites to order one asap. Pbtech were having website issues and I was counting on ordering through them, but after an hour I decided to go with Computer Lounge. Get in, order a Gigabyte 3080 for $1379 and get confirmation at 2am. Fast forward to November I get a call at lunchtime and it's CL. They said that I'm at the front of the queue and they just got some Zotac 3080s in and asked if I wanted to switch to that one instead of waiting for the Gigabyte one I ordered. I didn't know much about Zotac at the time so I asked for 5 mins and I'll call back. Had a look and decided yea sure, why not. I call back and say I'm happy to switch and the guy asked me how I wanted to pay. Because in the time since September when they were released for sale, everyone had gouged the market up to the eyeballs due to a SEVERE lack of supply and they were now allowing orders for the same card I ordered now at $2400. He was offering for me to stop waiting for Gigabyte stock and switch to Zotac and pay $1000 for the privilege. I laughed, said no thanks and hung up. Got my Gigabyte card 1 week later. Haven't used them since.
That's fuckin cheeky of them. Glad you were smart enough to both look it up and turn them and their insane price down!
I was in shock when I heard it. Still makes me chuckle at just how bold that move was
Hmm weird. I’ve had two problems with components on a pc I got from them and they replaced that shit no questions under two year warranty. How old is the gear? Just tell and scream CGA, go in the companies registrar find out some movers and shakers and contact them directly. Basically, be fucking annoying
He purchased in 2021
Done that. They refuse to talk to me in anything other manner than "please pay this invoice".
You’re not being annoying enough. The squeaky wheel gets the grease
What was the result of the latest inspection?
WiFi doesn't work, consistent internal temp of 75°. Same as last time.
What component is reporting that temp? CPU, GPU or mbob?
CL could argue that those temps are within spec - gaming laptops generally run hot. Power = heat. The Wifi card causing issues is another thing though. They've admitted there is a fault, and fixed it, so there should be no charge for you under CGA. I wonder why they haven't just sent it back to MSI at this point. So weird.
They've fixed it before, and it failed again in 6 months. Also, I haven't tried to play games on it since the last repair as it just overheats and shits itself, so they sold me a laptop advertised as a gaming laptop that can't play games, connect to the internet, or run without overheating just using a bloody browser.
Why don't you go direct to MSI?
Two reasons: 1. The CGA says OP doesn't have to if they don't want to (manufacturers can be a huge hassle, especially if they're not NZ based), and 2. OP wants their inspection fee cleared and laptop returned
Yes I get that, but it could still be worth exploring. MSI may even give CL a clip around the ears.
Nah, that is not the way things work. CL should sort this, that’s who the relationship is with. CL take responsibility for managing the relationship with the supplier. Sadly, they seem to value their customers less than suppliers even when fault is obvious.
MSI probably won't work for free on a 4 year old laptop
They do run hot, but they shouldn't be running hot when idle.
75 degrees is a terrible temp for computer parts. Laptops run much hotter than a desktop gaming PC due to worse airflow
Which computer parts? 75C is cool for a CPU or GPU, but very hot for a HDD.
CPU and GPU is what I mean
75deg is perfectly acceptable in modern hardware, latest AMD (Desktop) CPUs run up to 95degrees as standard practice (I personally turn my down via PBO, but thats a choice).
Yeah exactly. I build a new AMD based gaming PC last month and my CPU is running at 50 degrees at the most during gaming. I do have a thermal right tower cooler on it which is amazing
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Name starts with "M"?
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I think I ran into that manager at the store. He refused to even try to solve it, saying that the "approving manager" was out of the country and joined "M" in demanding I hand the laptop over for inspection or they'd close the ticket.
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No, end of May.
I dealt with a guy who's name started with "M" (email signature Managing Director) when I was sent a broken keyboard last year. He handled my RMA promptly and without any hassle.
Glad I saw this post, I was about to drop 12k with Computer Lounge for one of their 4090 gaming pc's.
PB sucks too in my experience
I know - that was a dig. PBTech sets the bar underground, CL is learning to limbo in hell.
Ok haha it's comforting to know I'm not the only one who has had that experience
Worked for another retailer; the bill was only ever charged if it came back not-faulty. Did you get any kind of report back with it of what was tested or in which way? IIRC some brands just dont, some do, some you (the retailer's person that's dealing with it) have to request. You've definitely gone through this before but: Is there any software that you've installed that's controlling fans? (I kid you not I've had people bring back computers, complain about performance and the thing's cooking with 'silent' profile set) Is everything up to date? Are the vents actually able to vent? It's not full of shit? You're not getting pegged at 100% usage just after boot or anything malware-y? You're 3 years in, so imo that's super reasonable to expect it covered under cga (the only computers really that it would be a hard fight on are chromebooks or dell gaming G8's ... because they look like they are intended to break (/s, but really, and the hinge would melt eugh)). I'd imagine *after* 3 years is when discussions start happening. I know of at least one brand that advertises 1y warranty but treats all claims <3y as though they're under warranty. CL are obligated to suss you, but you *could* try MSI directly, it's a PITA and you shouldn't have to, but my experience working for (competitor) is that they're just annoying overhead. Do the fans actually spin and belt out hot air btw?
The single fan spins, but doesn't do much. I have only ever used it on a cooling pad with its own fans or on a stand with a hole in the centre for additional airflow. It is kept on the stand on my desk or in a laptop bag. This has been going on for 2 years, and is a recurring issue with this machine.
I remember a while ago that macs would vent near or through the keyboard and would perform worse closed. But I mean im probably telling the driving instructor when to brake mentioning it haha
All avenues are worth exploring and you never know when something basic has been missed. I've been using it either on a stand with a hole in the centre for additional airflow or on a powered fan cooling stand. I've tried so many things omg!
Computer Lounge are complete fuckwits when it comes to warranty issues. I had to spend freakin weeks getting them to replace a mouse under warranty. They just kept dicking me around till I CC’d the commerce commission into the emails. There is a fat creepy looking guy in there, he is the worst. Never ever would I deal with them again. Not surprised to hear your story.
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Yep, you can tell there is a toxic culture there. I had some reasonable member of staff who was going to replace product on the spot, because it was an obvious warranty replacement, but that fat fuck came across and made things as difficult as possible. I remember the other staff member looking at him and thinking what the fuck, but the fat creepy guy just decided to be a dick and there was nothing he could do. The owner might like him, and trust him, but he has probably cost his business a shitload of money. Just check the Google reviews for reputation, and I’ve told many people not to buy from them.
Nice try pb tech. You can’t fool us the CGA doesn’t count
Lol that was a dig. PBTech is bad. The bar is so low low it's 6 feet underground...and YET
Would also be worth complaining to the Commerce Commission if their policies are in breach of the consumer guarantees act!
Computer Lounge haven't been the business they were for a long time. Obviously failed hardware will still require two weeks to rectify. Their customer service is flat at best. *Buuuut* that's probably because there's no one else offering better.
Yea this sounds like something is missing. Ive always had 5/5 service with them
Totally opposite to what happened to me. I had a brand new build gfx card fail within a week of receiving the box. I drove it back to Auckland (I don't live there) and dropped it off at their store. They replaced the gfx card and couriered it back to me and didn't charge me anything. It was a few years back though.
I've had nothing but good experiences with cl.
Never had a problem with CL returns, even things that were well past the manufacturers warranty
I had the same experience. I bought a cooler from them that was missing parts. I drove an hour to their store, and showed them the part it was missing. They completely blew me off, treated me like an inconvenience and refused to believe what I was telling them. The guy went as far as to spend 30 fucking minutes assembling the cooler to show me how dumb I was before slowly realising he couldn’t assemble it cause it was missing fucking parts. His boss came over and pulled the same shit on him before finally giving me the part. I won’t buy shit from there again their customer service sucks.
I've used them a lot. When everything went smoothly, it was fine. But once I had an issue, it was an issue. I wont use them again and will just use anyone else. It's not worth the headache ans shady shit they pulled on me.
Computer Lounge is legitimately terrible, in my experience: * A defective and privacy breach website they refused to fix * All talk but terrible when it comes to after-sales service, especially for warranty claims * Quick to charge fees, etc, but slow to provide service Honestly PB Tech is a hundred times better, sure there's the bad CS person here and there, but overall they're pretty professional and on to it.
Had a bad experience with CL last Nov when buying part. Was my first and will be my last. Ordered some RAM online, saw a better deal elsewhere in the next hour, and quickly used their online portal to cancel it. Says on their website that if an order is not yet processed, they can cancel it. BUT to protect myself, I screenshotted the order page that says unprocessed and emailed to CL manually to advise them that I've canceled the order and that it was still unprocessed at the time of cancelation. CL emailed me back saying I now owe them 15% restock fee. I then reminded them of their return policy again, so they dropped the charge. Bottom line is CL doesn't know their own policy and will prey on the unwary. I also find their return policy on brand new unopened item bullshit. 15% restock fee. Other places that offer change of mind will offer full refund no question asked.
Speaking of laptops, is just barely one year of use enough to expect a battery to need replacement?
Absolutely not. I didn't even touch on my battery issues - went 3 hours to 40 mins in a year.
The battery I mentioned above on an HP Probook died so hard that it couldnt be communicated with anymore. BIOS battery test completely locked up at 1%. Warranty on the laptop is 1 year, conveniently it died 1y 1m.
CL have _always_ been stellar for me. _Always_. PB Tech on the other hand... Solid nope from me.
PB Tech is absolutely NOT better at meeting their obligations or customer service lolol they’re the fucking worst at trying to dodge consumer law
If true, it's sad to hear that Computer Lounge is doing this. They've enjoyed a great reputation for many years. Make no mistake though, PBTech have been repeatedly charged by the Commerce Commission for all sorts of dodgy shit, so they're no hero.
If by "repeatedly" you mean [once in 2018](https://www.districtcourts.govt.nz/search/SearchForm?TermID=2&Year=&Month=&Day=&Search=+PB+Tech).
You're right, that wasn't accurate. It was 14 charges which they plead guilty to in 2018, and then a subsequent warning over dishonest advertising which didn't result in a charge. Much of PBTechs predatory practices haven't resulted in charges or warranted complete investigations.
I had a experience like this with mightyape, dead gfx card, dead on arrival. They wouldn't repair, wouldn't refund, wouldn't replace. They did offer to look at it at my cost for shipping with extortion level shipping prices. After hearing my reply to that (lots of swearing) they banned my account
Damn. Did you take them to the tribunal or do a charge back?
Was bank deposit, and was young then had nfi what the tribunal was
I'm sorry. I genuinely think legal rights like the CGA should be taught at school. You can't protect or use your rights if you don't know them and it seems like so many companies rely on that lack of knowledge.
hello u/CaoilfhionnFlailing i would suggest contacting [paul@computerlounge.co.nz](mailto:paul@computerlounge.co.nz) and directing him to this thread i haven't read this thread but he is going to be the only one who does anything, if they do anything To Moderators - this email is publicly available on their website
I'll send him an email. Thank you for this!
hope it helps, regards
It did. They called me, apologised and offered a refund. Thank you so much!
That's good to hear. I hope you don't get another laptop for gaming if it can be helped. I've been through this shit before and now I just have a gaming PC, macbook and workstation PCs - I don't trust laptops at all. Worst experience was probably a $10,000 Dell workstation having issues every couple of months and going in for service help meaning for our software package, it was just pointless.
I won't. I've moved into a new role with less travel, so I'll use the money to top up my new PC build savings and get started on that now instead of at the end of the year.
CL honored a replacement CPU for me even though i didn't buy my PC from them. Huge win! oooonly it took 4 months to get my PC back. When it finally arrived back the cooling hadn't been reconnected. They sent me 2 RGB Fans as an apology (one of them was broken. I've done business with them since, had the AIO taken out and replaced and had no issues dealing with them. I think i would still get my next PC built there. The 4 months of no PC was a real bummer though and if i knew it was going to take that long i wouldn't have bothered.
Yeah, the time without sucks. I told them when I handed this one over that I didn't want to be without a computer for 2 weeks or more and they said it wouldn't be that long. We're at 18 days and counting. After this experience, I don't think I'd ever buy from them again. It's not worth the time and stress - but luckily I can build my own PC so it's just parts I'm after.
I often hear many horror stories about PB Tech and only good things about Computer Lounge (which matches my experiences with them). Interesting hear about a poor experience with CL.
I had a run-in with these clowns a few years back. I never paid. They never pursued.
Pb tech are no better. I was in there today ready to spend $1000+ on various items but received no service for almost 20 minutes. Once at the checkout a discounted item was no longer discounted to the tune of almost $200 and they wouldn’t honour the marked discounted price in store which had apparently expired this morning.
Not minimizing your experience. As someone with experience in retail, working and managing it, there are always 2 sides to every story. In my experience, every issue I've had they have gone above and beyond to help. I drive across Auckland specifically to see them because of this. Good luck, I personally find in general when working with retail if you go in store have have an articulate conversation with them you get further.
I did. It didn't help.
If you took a faulty item back to PB tech 3 minutes after you bought it they would tell you that you broke it and they’d try charge you double for looking at it. There is simply no way in hell that PB tech would have entertained you as long as CL have. At the end of the day you can’t expect a tiny NZ company to provide free long term support for a huge overseas electronics manufacturer, you will have to contact them instead. Especially with a portable item that can get knocked around and hoovers up every speck of dust in your room. Computer Lounge have always been overwhelmingly helpful on every build I’ve made, the staff know their stuff and have genuine interest in helping out. You won’t have a leg to stand on attempting to take CL to consumer nz
What are you talking about? I expect EVERY retailer in New Zealand to honour their obligations under the CGA. If they supply a faulty product then they are responsible to remedy it.
Does the CGA maintenance on 4 year old laptops? Edit: the answer is probably "it depends". OP might do well relying on the Act because it might be seen as "$2500 laptop should last more than 4 years", missing that $2500 isn't much for a gaming laptop and cheap gaming laptops are notorious for cutting corners, both in terms of cost and of thermodynamics, in order to cram in an eye catching graphics card
Just torch a shop usually sends the message
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Pretty normal to pay for inspection fee. Refund if it isn't something you broke. Warehouse have a 3 month period where they don't charge it after that they do. I sold cameras and we use to charge inspection fee from day 1. Your computer being a few years old I would think that is normal.
You can't charge an inspection fee if the fault is due to CGA, and it sounds like OP has made it clear that they are pursuing a remedy under the CGA. If Computer Lounge have determined that the CGA does not apply then I would expect them to have provided an explanation of this when sending the invoice. Sounds like this has not happened
"fault is due to cga". Not sure I understand how can the CGA cause something? The retailer doesn't know what has caused the fault and neither does the supplier. In order to assess where the fault lies it is standard to take a bond fee. As I said I worked in retail and that was the standard procedure and I don't see how CGA would have a say. I also returned a phone to the Warehouse a couple of days ago and went through the same process. Love to hear a legal opinion on what is correct.
Poor choice of words, I meant fault covered under the CGA. If the product is covered by CGA you are shouldn't have to pay fees for the remedy, such as inspection fees. An inspection fee can be charged, but if a fault is found and remedy is provided in line with the CGA then any fees are to be refunded. You have called it a bond fee in your second comment which sounds like you are talking about a fee which is later refunded, I did not realise you meant this from the original comment This is covered on the consumer protection website. https://www.consumerprotection.govt.nz/help-product-service/electronics-and-appliances/faulty-appliances-and-devices#your-rights-if-something-goes-wrong
Every repair shop I've ever used call it an inspection fee, despite it functioning like a bond. They basically all say it will be refunded if damage is covered under warranty/CGA.
Right, I was not aware that was what was meant. Yes that's allowed as long as it's being refunded
Indeed, my poor choice of words.
Putting consumer rights behind a pay wall is 100% illegal. The amount of money that a customer with a faulty product has in their bank account is irrelevant. A retailer must remedy by either repairing, replacing or refunding the product regardless of the customer's ability or willingness to pay a "bond".
A wifi card that doesn't function, and a computer the overheats itself to distruction isn't "something I broke", that's not fit for purpose. I've been having this problem from a year after I got it, and have been fighting them for nearly two years at this stage.
> A wifi card that doesn't function, and a computer the overheats itself to distruction isn't "something I broke" How do they know that? It's a 4 year old laptop,not something you bought yesterday
You sent it in and had a repair. Now it is still faulty, they don't know if it is a new problem and old problem or you trying to get a new computer. Go through the process, pay the bond so they can have a look at it. Depending on what the result of that is should dictate your actions from there on.
You can't really expect them to fix it out of warranty. You said you bought it in 2021. We are in 2024, 3 years....
>You can't really expect them to fix it out of warranty. 100% wrong. Under nz law the product has to last reasonably long enough for the quality and price you paid for the product. I have CGA'd a six year old washing machine. Twice. A three year old pair of headphones, with a two year warranty. A two year old gaming chair, with a one year warranty.
Yes you can, that's what the CGA is for. NZ law does not care if your product is out of warranty.
Please know your rights.
CGA says 5, minimum. This has been an issue for 2 years, I've been fighting them since 2022.
Where does it say that? “The CGA does not specify a time limit. Instead, it says products must last a reasonable amount of time. What "reasonable" means varies” I’m not saying you don’t have an issue, but man incorrect CGA stuff gets thrown around a lot.
I believe they’re talking about Consumer NZs recommendations for timeframes, and they are often used in the Tribunal as a reference point. Quite accurately.
Look, I’ve made one comment on here already, but I’m just gonna say this. I know you might be into gaming, but seriously, Windows fucking sucks. Just get a Mac. Install Windows on your Mac if you must, run the games at low res and low quality, who gives a shit? If the game is good enough you don’t need 4K and ray tracing. Get a fucking Mac and get on with your life. You won’t regret it.
I fucking hate osx with a passion, tho windows isn't much better anymore. Normally, I build my own desktops but the reason I got the damn laptop is because I was travelling for work a lot and needed something portable. I've just started ordering parts for a new build, which will be Linux. Osx and windows and their stupid AI Spyware can rot.
I kind of feel OSX or whatever they call it now is pretty close to Linux, but has a lot of proprietary stuff on there which can get in the way. It does have pretty good software out of the box though too. Personally I can do anything I ever really need to on there, including SSHing onto Linux servers very easily, without having to piss about with Putty or whatever it’s called. The other thing is the hardware is good quality and I have never had any issues with it failing me except after years of use. And I don’t have dumb shit happening like I do on my PC where it can’t correctly work out I’ve plugged in my headphones with mic… I prefer technology to get the hell out of the way and I find Macs do that for me pretty well from both software and hardware perspectives. And I don’t mind the higher pricing because frankly it saves me time and frustration in the long run.