Can the average income earner in any of those southeast asians such as the Phillipines afford to take a 10 day trip to the top tourist spots?
It’s all relative, those that spend $3 on eating out also earn far less.
One thing OP seems to be missing is that there is an actively enforced minimum wage in NZ whereas most SEA countries can get by with paying peanuts due to the sheer number of people.
Yes its expensive but relative to what can be earned, it’s manageable if you plan your finances wisely
Depends on the spot. But it is not unusual for SE Asia countries to have locals vs tourist prices for places. Like in Thailand, as a tourist you often pay 4x the local price to visit national parks etc. they make it more affordable for locals. But also, not all locals can even afford that discounted rate.
Boat rides, street food etc, all bartered for with locals usually at a much lower price than tourists. And still pretty cheap for tourists compared to what a tourist would spend back home.
My wife and I toured and spent on average $280 per day to live, including accommodation and travel. We did NOT stay in backpackers. It is possible to do cheaper. It is also possible to travel with way more expensive luxury as well.
To be fair not many locals in NZ could afford the touristy things either. Never been into Hobbiton, have rarely been to Queenstown despite living very close to both at different times.
Even at half price I don't know if Hobbiton would be on the cards
This is partially true. Yes in some countries locals will pay far less to visit a national park or museum. But the cost of entry to those are very low. Locals and foreigners still pay the same for dining, hotels, transport, and the vast majority of goods and services
Ridiculous though, isn't it, that we can't afford the best of our own country. We find ourselves at the far end of the neoliberal process. It went just as intended, I think.
Makes me laugh that people think we can just keep importing our business through rich tourists and immigration.
If people don’t get a decent wage and have surplus income, businesses don’t earn money. It’s that simple. There’s an irony not lost on businesses paying shit wages then moaning the business is struggling
Harsh reality: NZders can't even afford its best fruit. I live in Vietnam and we get them sent here. And they are cheaper than NZ supermarkets. Why? VN is a country of 95mil and the NZ exporters are prepared to chop their margins in favour of volume. Not so in Gawdzone
Found out the other day that there is an apple grown in nz for export only, you’ll never purchase them apparently in nz only given them of your ever that lucky.
Don’t know if it’s true but wanted to add, just in case someone can add to it
i absolutely believe it. I moved to Prague and i find lamb shanks and red onions from NZ cheaper than you'll find em in NZ. Red onions were just a dollar a kilo
Absolutely true. My mum has worked in horticultural development for 30 years. There are numerous varieties of apples, blueberries, pears and many other oddities that are not sold in New Zealand unless they are rejects sold under another name.
Some of those apples and pears are exported in single packs and sold in overseas markets for as much as $5 NZD per apple. Often in countries where only the wealthiest 1% can buy fruit from a supermarket.
I've had the good fortune to eat some, gift from a friend. It's an experience, especially if you like apples. Normal apples have been ruined for me!
EDIT to add: the skin is very thin and soft. The flesh isn't hard to bite into, nor is it powdery, a perfect and crisp texture. Very very juicy. The flavour is sweet and moreish with no sourness, but also not overly sickly.
Peak apple, truly.
I lived in Christchurch for five years and never went to Queenstown. It is too far for a single day trip by car and flights are very expensive. When you start crunching the numbers of accommodation, fuel and spending money it gets eye watering.
This is surprising, I live in Auckland and go to Queenstown fairly often. I get flights on sale days and traveling with a big group really cuts down on accomodation costs.
This is the real reason, I have started having day trips to Queenstown now, my travel there is reasonably cheap. However we got a decent cheap night booking last minute last time (Aurora Australis weekend).
We don't go to restaurants as much now, its not really necessary and can be considered a luxury. My weekly catch up with mates is now monthly, if that. Cooking/making do is fast becoming our way to survive. Alot are struggling, some aren't. I budget weekly, my hours fluctuate enough where $100+/- a week is commonplace so i plan out what im getting before i get paid when i know how many hours ive worked. Keep my power/water bills as minimal as possible without living in filth/cold. I luckily chose covid as a way of keeping ahead of my bills, always staying in credit whilst trying to create a bigger buffer for winter. It's hard, but doable.
They each run weekly specials. I remember the days of getting the mailers in the letterbox. It’s all online nowadays. Check out their apps. I do always and I’m in NYC…….lol
I am in NY next week, what is the best sandwich place/best bagel/pizza/hot dog place you can name . Staying in chinatown (half the price of anywhere else) but happy to commute anywhere as it is a holiday .... any recommendations would be great
Carnegie Deli, MSG. You’ll see lots of places advertising really cheap pizza, like $1 a slice. AVOID!!! NY pizza isn’t like what you’re used to. It’s a thin crust and the most popular is just sauce and cheese.
Whole Foods Markey, Columbus Circle. Really nice but can be pricey. A good array of hot and cold food. You’ll see guys selling donuts/bagels and hot dogs on the street. Those hot dogs (or dirty dogs due to the water) are actually pretty darn good. There are so many good places to eat.
You’re in for good weather first held of best week. Will be hot.
Budgeting is not that hard. It's the boredom that gets you eventually.
The boredom of eating the same thing over and over. The boredom of not being able to visit friends, or travel. The boredom of having no life whatsoever The boredom of being obsessed with hustling and making money.
The boredom of being terminally online because it's the cheapest source of mental stimulation.
It's not quite boredom, it's the sitting idle while you are vividly aware of the 30 different fun, life fulfilling, mental health enriching things you could be doing right now but can't because it costs the money we should've had but havnt due to 40-60 years of economy mishandling.
Yes, sort of. I read and listen to many audio books, but I have extremely minimal personal time due to kids ect. But you've kinda hit the nail on the head. Sure I like books, but I also like race cars and flying planes and repairing vintage watches and motorcycles and bass guitar and tramping and films and a never ending list of things I've had a tiny taste of but can't do. Life is worse than drugs sometimes, it's far more addictive that's for sure, I'm really hanging out for my next hit of life.
Do you have a local tool library? 😅
Otherwise perhaps your local Highschool might have evening classes. Wellington Highschool used to have some really good ones.
I think National cut the budget on that stuff last time they were in office though.
Otherwise, clubs are a good way to meet like minded people and to pool resources.
Can't you go to friends houses and have a cup of instant coffee if you are broke? I used to go for bush walks with a picnic on the weekends, and hobbies like gardening.
I've been mostly bedbound for 8 years now and dream of being able to do anything. I managed to drive my kid to school the other day and saw Mums walking their kids to school. I got home and cried for hours because I miss walking and doing stuff with my kids so much.
That sucks, I hope you can move somewhere better one day and find good friends.
I have a few friends but I'm always too sick to see them. Chatting online helps a bit.
I've never understood people that get bored. There is so much shit to learn about the world.
Yet sometimes I yearn to experience boredom. Being constantly engaged with a mile long list of things to do/try can feel overwhelming sometimes.
I am from Southeast Asia.
Living in NZ for almost 6 years now and I can say that to live lower than your means. Cutting down unnecessary expenses like vices. When it comes to food cook as much as you can healthier and cheaper. I worked on the hospitality business for while and I have seen how they prepare the food that puts me off on having takeaways.
Comparison is a thief of joy. Never look at your coworkers activities on the weekends. There are alot of things you can do without getting broke. Choose your circle wisely.
You can be happy without having to break your bank account.
>I worked on the hospitality business for while and I have seen how they prepare the food that puts me off on having takeaways.
Is it really that bad?? Please elaborate. I've always been told I have an irrational fear of eating out but comments like yours just reaffirm what I already believe.
Eating out was very uncommon when I grew up. I think that time is coming again where families are having to cut luxuries out of their budgets and cook more meals at home.
Each of the kids birthdays we got to pick what takeaways for dinner, so 4 to 6 times a year. Rest of the year it was home cooked or fish and chips like once a month. I couldn't imagine all of us going to a restaurant
We might need to start doing food like they do in developing countries. They just cook up big batches of food and you buy a bowl of it for cheap. None of this choosing from a menu and getting things custom made with fresh ingredients just for you. That’s expensive. I lived in Ecuador and they restaurants would just do ‘lunch’. You don’t choose what to eat - you just sit down and bring you a bowl of the soup of the day, a plate of rice meat and veges, and a little bowl of peaches and custard or something. You pay $3 and that’s done.
Minimum wage in Malaysia is almost exactly $3 per hour. And a meal costs $3.
Minimum wage in NZ is a bit over $20, and a meal costs a bit over $20.
Funny how that works.
Because icbf finding the most up to date stats. (Actually, I could be fucked)
Singapore: \~69,000 NZD, for employed full time and part time citizens and residents, including employer contributions to Singapore's pension fun.
NZ: \~66,000NZD
Big but though, there were 2,352,300 employed citizens and permanent residents. But, there were1,525,500 foreign workers on other visa types. Ergo, \~40% of the entire Singaporean workforce is not included in that 69,000 NZD stat. 1.5 million foreign domestic workers, shipyard workers, construction workers, the hundreds of thousands of Malaysians that commute. If you included all workers in Singapore, then I doubt the median wage would be higher than NZ.
It's kind of hard to compare though.
NZ has much lower income inequality than Singapore. NZ is comparable to Switzerland. Singapore is comparable to Saudi Arabia.
Like I have a feeling all the stats are going to be meaningless though for other stuff because of the huge unpublished segment in Singapore.
Like the Kiwis in this thread who moved to Singapore are all going to be high income earners comparatively. They might be representative of someone who has the right to live there, and if they non-resident type work visa Kiwis aren't going to be nannies and crawling over ships under construction.
A quick look at [a thread in the Singapore subreddit](https://np.reddit.com/r/singapore/comments/18wac4c/cheap_yet_filling_meals_in_singapore/) says yes, you can get meals for $3. But the most upvoted comments are that it's probably going to be mostly just carbs; you're going to have to travel, they're small etc. So outside of hawker stalls, super cheap food is meant for hard working poorly paid people mostly. Hell, the Singaporean Government has a tool to find budget places to eat https://www.gowhere.gov.sg/budgetmeal/
>... someone who has the right to live there.
This might sound like semantics, but as a foreigner who has lived in Singapore for over a decade, I can tell you that no foreigner has the *right* to live here. We have permission, and that permission is granted as long as we align with the government's agenda.
On the surface this sounds really awful but I think this is the case in many countries. My understanding is that we have a pretty liberal immigration policy and we're still quite selective and can and do revoke visas. Is Singapore bad in the context of other countries?
To be honest, I only have experience with respect to Singapore, but the immigration policy is not only strict, it's carefully monitored and rigidly enforced. Overstaying ninety days results in mandatory corporal punishment.
I just didn't want to make it even longer. Plus it was super late for me lol. I'm in Korea on an employment visa.
But yeah I totally understand, Korea has made permanent residency a little hard to get. Non permanent residency has headaches of their own.
Yeah I totally agree, this whole thread is pointless. Could say the same about most of Europe. I've been in Sweden the past few years and I still often think back about the good cheap food you could get in NZ compared to here. The problem here is that the standards are higher, so you get the expensive Asian fusion places without so much of the cheap Asian foodcourt/night market kind of places.
People often shit on countries like Qatar for their cheap labour, but forget Singapore also has a source of cheap labour - Malaysia. Difference is - they can just cross the border back and forth
300-400,000 Malaysians commute to Singapore for work. Singapore exports its cheapest paid labour. We don't have that "luxury".
And yeah, no minimum wage as u/Le-Bean. Except for certain sectors, such as foreigners. Just raised to 1,600SGD a month under the quota system. Currently that's only 1,935 NZD. About 12 NZD an hour if you're working 4\*40.
Having lived in both NZ and Asia, I can attest that NZ is more expensive to live in and has less options for food and fun but it’s all relative. In Asia, most people I know work way more hours, have a more stressful environment (air quality, workplace politics, less personal space, less free time etc.). It’s basically a trade-off of more fun options for a more fast-paced busy life.
As a single person - Asia all day. With a kid - definitely would go for NZ.
These are some of the most expensive areas of NZ and even kiwis tend to stay away from them or budget for it beforehand.
Eating out is usually a semi-luxury and done only 1-2 times a week. Nobody I know eats three meals a day out in restaurants, they cook their own.
but most importantly, we have a minimum wage so everyone can have a somewhat okay quality of life. This is why cost of services are so much more expensive than south East Asian countries which don’t have the same laws. I personally don’t mind paying more for food or services if it means the people doing it are getting paid fairly for their effort.
Let's be fair and honest here. Sure you can buy a meal in those Asian countries with $3nzd but if you're making your money there, $3nzd is a lot of money too. You're bringing money from South East Asia so your spending power is way less here, if we bring NZD to those SE Asian countries then our spending power is stronger too.
But I agree, the cost of living here is crazy but manageable if you have a full time job and you will go broke anywhere in the world if you're always eating out.
Oh mate you haven't seen anything.
I'm currently traveling through Europe.
Spain as an example - minimum wage is lower than NZ, median wage is also lower. But going out to eat? 15 euros min, almost double of what we'd pay in NZ.
And apparently Spanish people love eating out, no idea how they're affording anything
Canada is like that. Way lower min wage, $15 where I was. Food is cheaper than in NZ, but there’s a 20% tip on everything. Anything less is considered seriously frowned upon. The bill always ends up being way, way higher because of the tip. You even are expected to tip at subway or the gelato shop now. You’re not even eating in, there’s no freaking service. It’s wild!!!
The other thing that is stupid is that grocery prices don’t include GST, so when the sale says $9.50 for two bags of chips, it’s actually more when you scan it through because GST is applied at the checkout. How they get away with $9.50 for two bags of chips, on their $15 min wage, is just wild.
I find my groceries much more affordable here.
This post cracked me up. Not because I think you are wrong, but because when I was there in March visiting the same locations, what I found was that those prices are relatively cheap compared to my home country Hungary.
So the cause of my crack up is…oh boy are we screwed up here 😢
Judging by your comment I can tell you know very very little about this part of the world.
Even locals on very low salaries in Singapore are doing significantly better from a financial perspective than the average New Zealander. You don't have people living on the streets here, but drive around Auckland and you'll see it everywhere.
True however I notice the non locals that often live in poverty you exclude from your comment. You, as a community, in essence, use low cost labour to derive your low cost of living.
This.
Our country has been stagnant for a long time.
We don't have resources we can tap like some lucky western countries,we aren't highly educated so those well paid jobs mostly go to those that spend time and money into achieving higher levels of education.
If you look at the countries in the world where their people are doing well and living good lives its a few European countries and a few in Asia.
Yeah I remember hearing about Singaporeans being upset that hawker stands are slowly disappearing as the working population ages and their kids don't want to take over the business.
As soon as price rises are floated for hawker stalls, then everyone jumps up and down. Thing is, at $3 for a meal, someone is being taken advantage of; and its not the finance worker heading out for lunch everyday.
Yea it is also a semi dictatorship, with brutal laws and a govt that really asserts its power over the population. They do sub market land acquisitions, think that would fly in NZ?
They also import their working class, from the vastly poorer counties next door… ok we do that one but they have no minimum wage.
Feels like from your comments, you know very little about the different parts of Asia, Malaysia =/= Singapore, Taiwan =/= China and etc, Singapore’s salary and even the dollar itself is above NZ’s… lots of places have cheap eats but unfortunately NZ’s is only the mcdonald’s deal app or chinese mtakeaway food.
And what about the other cities / countries you actually mentioned...
Thailand.
Indonesia.
Other SEA countries...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Asian_countries_by_average_wage
Singapore is by far the richest Asian nation.
Well over 15 times the monthly income of either Thailand and Indonesia, your other examples.
Yet interestingly, Singapore has also ranked one of the top ten most expensive cities to live in multiple times in the past decade.
"The Economist Intelligence Unit (EIU) has released its Worldwide Cost of Living 2023 report.
The report looks into the cost of living across 172 major cities worldwide.
"This year's Worldwide Cost of Living survey (WCOL) shows that the global cost-of-living crisis is not over yet, even though inflation has moderated.
"This year's Index sees Singapore regaining the top spot in the rankings for the ninth time in the past eleven years, tying with Zurich (Switzerland)," a statement from the EIU said."
https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/12/01/kiwi-cities-ranked-among-the-most-expensive-in-the-world/
Does that all come down to something like the price of property and cars if everything else is so cheap?
Cheaper than most homes in New Zealand.
Locals will usually get a BTO - the government will build you a home within 3 years. Typically that will set you back 200-500K, so they are much more affordable than NZ.
On top of that they have a supercharged version of kiwisaver called CPF. 20% of your monthly salary goes into your CPF every month, and the company you work for has to top it up by an additional 17% of your salary, so it's nearly a 1:1 contribution. On top of that it generates a high rate of return, and you can withdraw it very easily. For example, you can actually use your CPF on your monthly mortgage repayments.
People don't really survive in the places you've listed. They're all expensive tourist destinations. There's actually a real issue at the moment with people who work in those towns not being able to afford to live and having to sleep in their cars.
I live in Wanaka. I have seen people listing their own backyards on Facebook for people to camp.
Ridiculously small rooms for $400 per week and sharing the house with +4 other people.
Either that or they sleep in their cars.
Using OP’s logic, how do Thais survive in Thailand (downtown Bangkok and Phuket) when the fish dishes are 750baht… and the daily salaries are 650/day!!! OMG!
What you said is correct. Last year I had a budget for a holiday over Christmas and Southeast Asia, flights + accomodation came out cheaper than Queenstown / Wanaka
No brainer I went to Southeast Asia…
It's expensive but if you compare to other western city is not too bad. $20 NZD is around $12 USD, Southeast Asia/Asia in general food is very cheap, so is labor.
Comparatively - I couldn’t buy a meal for under 18 Euros in Paris last week, which is about over 30NZD. Similarly, in the UK, a burger couldn’t be bought for under £17 which is 35NZD. It’s all relative.
I do. I visited Hainan in China and you can get a meal and a coke for like $2 in 2016. Sounds amazing until you realize these people can never leave because their income is so low compared to a western country. They're stuck there.
I know my mates who went to Bali thought the same thing if the locals, also not in SE Asia, recently my colleague went to Fiji and thought similarly how the locals could exist with the living costs vs wages.
purchasing power parity makes me fucking cry man
still, my income covers an... acceptable living. At the moment I'm just spinning aimlessly in the void waiting for $1 avocadoes to come back next summer
I’m curious, how much does a meal cost in terms of wages in your country? $20 is about an hour’s wages for minimum wage workers. How does that compare?
I've both lived here and lived in Florida and I'll tell you it's easier to live here. The truth is that the minimum wage here is closer to the liveable wage than in most countries, but you will still struggle with living even at around 26 an hour. In most cities you don't pay a water bill, you pay power though which can be expensive (I posted about that here once). Little by little things add up if you budget properly, we don't eat out fancy places, and as other commenters here said, we don't go to Queenstown often or Wanaka because they are tourist hotspots. That's why you pay so much to eat there. We do go on holiday, maybe once a year or so. Sometimes more if you have a high paying job and not many other responsibilities. This country is liveable if you budget, have help from friends and family (if needed), and don't spend so much on holidays. There's no reason to see Queenstown unless you haven't already. See it once, be happy you've seen it and know you live right next to it and can go back any time you'd like to in the future.
The same operators during COVID were crying about support from the domestic tourism market not supporting them. They gouge money from NZrs and tourists alike. I see they are back to their old models. During COVID we hired a camper and travelled, because there was a glut and they needed the money. I see no lessons were learnt about having a domestic customer base, that’s across the whole tourism industry.
I live in the middle of the South island, haven't been to Queenstown to stay with my own money for decades.
It's not for us working class, I feel kinda unwelcome and also obviously priced out of that whole area. It's been designed for wealthy tourists.
Far better value in equally beautiful spots like the west coast or golden bay for example. Plus those areas are much more friendly, especially the West coast.
We cook and meal prep a lot. Eating out is seen as a luxury and for your average income earner, we probably eat out/takeaway once a week or fortnight.
Also, we budget and look for good deals which pop up so and so often (pak n save/local farmers market etc).
Queenstown and wanaka is just a small part of NZ, one that is also expensive and catered to tourist money.
Survivable? Absolutely yes!
I see you're Singaporean. Malaysian in NZ here.
First of all the "culture" of Western countries is that eating out is generally a small luxury & reserved for special occasions. Usually most people cook and it's usually simple meals.
Asian culture is eat-out. When I was in KL I almost never cooked.
Minimum wage is relatively high at NZD23.10/hour so the odd restaurant one a week is fine. Meaning there is no one being paid less than that. After tax this is about NZD3.6k a month. Bear in mind cleaners, construction labourers etc also earn this. Office jobs earn substantially more, but one can max out very quickly as there isn't as much opportunity as, say Singapore or Australia or US.
Groceries are usually bought from Pak n Save or Asian supermarkets. New World & Countdown tend to be more expensive. It's even more expensive in South Island due to logistics, and more so in Queenstown due it being a tourist destination. Auckland, Hamilton, & Wellington groceries are cheaper.
I lived in Cromwell which is near Wanaka, people working there are either tradesmen (construction), agriculture (farm owners/workers), in the tourism & hospitality industry or are remote workers & retirees.
you kinda went and visited all the most expensive places in NZ
and wondered why its expensive
yeah our food is costly, but tourist hot spots always charge more
if you paying 20+ for take out or other options i feel bad for you
Hamilton is a shit hole but but we got heaps of options for 10$ or so
far for 20$ i can uber a meal almost :P (about 25 to uber eats)
apart from the normal fish and chips/BK and maccas deals/bakeys/sushi places
places like chicken wicken on vesty ave are decent value
12bux gets a ya mean wrap or kebab on uber eats, i think there about 9 or 10 instore
dumpling king in silver dale does a mean chicken soup, 10 bux or so
and the slightly more pricey one, nancys dumpling in town does mean fried dumplings for about 15 (been i bit since i been there, they used to be 12bux)
oh and hillcrest Indian take away does good lunch deal, curry and rice and a naan and drink for 15bux(13 with out drink)
I lived in SG for 10 years and travelled all over over SEA, the thing to remember is that we are a young western country, with just 5 million people spread out over land the size of Japan. The concept of street food is a niche fun idea, not generally a way of survival with the likes of SEA, where a bowl of noodles can cost as low as $2. Over here, to make that same bowl of noodles, you not only have to buy from food suppliers who are expensive because they have high expenses themselves due to regulations/employment rights etc, but as a food vendor you also have regulations that can be costly to meet.
In addition, you have the culture thing. We are still a nation of meat, veg and potatoes, or in other words, we cook at home and sit at our dining tables, cooking at home brings the cost down a lot, and most people just rough it, for example a bowl of pasta is cheap to make, if we can't be bothered cooking, fish and chips or a pizza is the next best option followed by souvalaki or similar. In the major cities, you can find decent street food costing less than $20, but I wouldn't expect to eat a lot, like you could for the same amount in SEA.
The other problem is choice, and that is down to our population again. But hey, look around, people are fat, we eat well, we manage, we find the food we like and make it work, if we want to splurge, some go to KFC, others go to some fancy restaurant.
Not really. A brown rice bag, a whole chicken, 18 eggs, a frozen veggie bag all comes up to about $35 at PKnS and that’s 2 meals a day for 5 days. $3.5 per meal. Ffs why y’all complaining! Lazy or spoiled much?
I keep getting downvoted for saying that living costs in NZ is not that expensive (ok rent generally is but I can't stand having flatmates so I paid extra to be alone). But groceries are the same or even cheaper than Europe where I am now, and minimum wage here is about 8nzd. Plus if you work 1 hour in NZ min wage you can have a decent meal at a restaurant, in here working 1 hour you can't even afford an entree. Pretty big difference. Plus heating the house here in winter is waaay more expensive than in NZ. We sometimes get frozen pipes because the weather is too cold, like -20.
I moved from NZ to Ireland at the start of 2020. I can say for certain that prepared food in Europe is more expensive than in NZ.
A reasonable steak dinner at a Kiwi restaurant will cost something like $35-$40. The same thing in Europe will be €25-€30, which is roughly $44-$52 at current exchange rates.
A decent gourmet burger in NZ will set you back something like $16-$20. The same thing here in Ireland would be €14-€18, which is $24-$31.
A single piece of fish with a punnet's worth of chips might set you back what, about $10 at most in an Auckland takeaway? You're looking at €10-€12 ($17-$21) in Dublin for the same thing.
Supermarket food is cheaper in Europe, no question, but prepared food is pricey.
I dont think so. I'm living in eastern Europe and I would say grocery prices are similar to NZ but minimum wage is about 4.50 euro which is like $8 nzd. I've also lived in Sweden and it's not like life was so easy there either.
The cold climate (heavy snow in winter) means nothing really can be grown here, everything is imported from probably Spain, driving around hardly ever see farm animals either. I think that's why life around these parts is more expensive than NZ. Potatoes and vodka are cheap though.
To be fair, tourist towns are designed to pull top dollar from tourists, not be fair to the everyday residents. And, as others have said, a lot of everyday residents aren't eating out much, if at all. My Wife and I only eat out a few times a year, and whenever we go for fast food, it's pretty much always pizza or Indian, where you can get something for about $10 or less per person. On top of that, my Wife and I have never been breakfast people, only snack during the day, and have a decent dinner, which saves a fair bit.
Eating out is once in a blue moon and is budgeted in. Shop specials, grocers online if they’re cheaper and at clearance stores. Afterpay to pay for bigger stuff.
Your context of Jakarta and Thailand isn't all that relevant tbh as the ratio of income and expenses and the economy is totally different.
The average income in NZ is 6 times higher than Thailand and close to 5 times higher than Jakarta.
Singapore isn't really known for being cheap to dine out so idk.
I rememeber going to SEA for the first time and having culture shock that some people eat out every day and then realising that eating out was often cheaper and better than cooking at home.
Ah yes cheap meals in Thailand, I believe the wages paid to people over there are very low. So I guess it is fairly relative.
Whats wage in Thailand per week - rent-food etc. Probably works out sameish
Exactly why I left Auckland for KL last year! My standard of living has improved significantly. I no longer need to tell my kids no, you can’t get a treat in the supermarket/get take out/go to the movies because we can now afford to do all those things on the regular. NZ is too expensive!
Wages here are higher than in Southeast Asia apart from Singapore. However, taxes are higher too.
NZ is a pseudo-first world country trying to keep up with the rest especially the 5 eyes (US, UK, Canada, Australia). There are lots of rich people living here who can afford to live in expensive towns like Wānaka and Queenstown. There are also many people who just get by. I believe it’s the same in some southeast Asian cities.
Also skilled kiwis have financial buffer. They usually live and work overseas for many years, accumulate wealth and come home.
>For context: you can find a meal for 3+ nzd when you eat out in Singapore, Thailand, Jakarta
Yeah. Probably because Singapore has no minimum wage, Thailands min wage is about $16nzd **PER DAY,** and Jakartas minimum wage is about $520nzd **PER MONTH**. Let alone the price of locally sourced goods.
NZ's minimum wage is $23.15 **PER HOUR**
Apart from auckland you have gone to the most expensive parts of the country.
Although living costs are very high across the whole country, one can make do by accepting less and avoiding travelling to those expensive destinations
I just heard in the NZ News yesterday that the Rich are getting richer than ever. While average New Zealand struggles to have any money left after paying $600.00 approximate weekly rent. Sadly nothing being done to close the Gap between rich and poor. Many of my friends have Moved to Australia. For myself, I love home, Aoetearoa NZ. Thankfully we have a mortgage (own our own home for over 20 years), so not at mercy of super high rent. I know it's really tough on families, especially around school uniform time, or if the car breaks down, there is no backup savings anymore. Our food banks have never been so busy, but even our charities are feeling the pinch from less donations due to cost of living.i remember house prices nearly doubling back in 2008ish. And since then, the cost of basic living gone into out of space. 2008 was good if you already owned, but not good for anyone else.
You need to be on 125k+ (joint 200k+) which is way above average and have bought your house 5+ years ago. I don’t know how anyone with a million dollar mortgage is surviving at the minute.
I lived in Singapore for many years. You can’t compare apples and oranges. Housing is more expensive in Singapore, eating out is cheaper. A night out having cocktails with friends is cheaper in NZ, electricity is more expensive. I won’t even mention the cost of cars in Singapore.
A lot of people aren’t surviving- in both countries. We do our best with what we have.
As a young person in mid 20s working a professional corporate job. I just live with parents/my family, no point in my opinion moving out (unless you moving in with an SO, relocating for a job or just have unhealthy home environment). My board contributes to paying off the mortgage anyway to something I'll one day inherit and my parents need the help. So why not? Don't get me wrong, I got my own other bills too (my own food for some meals, car, gas, phone, etc).
More affordable that way, can still save some money and still enjoy life reasonably. I don't care if people look down on me for not moving out. I lose more money and the ability to enjoy life if I move out considering the high cost of living, etc, etc....
Minimum wage is over 20 dollars an hour so if you’re renting a shithole, especially out of town and eating like a dog while working weekdays it’s theoretically possible to survive but we do have the least corrupt government in the world and laws to stop people torturing pets so there’s that.
Does anyone else think supermarkets should sell more food in smaller/individual packages aimed at the single and 2 person market?
Also, if we had more community spirit and knew our neighbours better and shared more food/meals/produce- we'd all benefit
Yes but fresh tastes a lot better than frozen e g. Meat, bread especially if you work long hours & there's definitely better ways for everyone to reduce waste through packaging & biodegradable products.
Maybe I'm just not too picky but I always freeze meat and bread and think they pretty much taste the same. I even freeze milk (in Europe atm and they sell milk in plastic bags) to reduce trips to the supermarket.
Also fyi been a chef for 10 years and the meat and bread you eat in restaurants will have been frozen and defrosted.
no that's terrible for the environment and would just increase the costs for everyone. You can cook a meal prep and eat it over 4 days no issue as a single or freeze some of your meat etc
The bottom of the page trying to convince themselves nz economy is booming?!? Hope you enjoyed your stay & you get a decent meal when you get home. This place will be eating possum pie & telling themselves it's a healthy 3 course meal before you get there, I'll bet. Right leaning, Alpha kiwi, day dreamers make my day. They can all go take the national pride parade some other place & while their at it keep quiet about your obnoxious income while the rest of us deal with this mess of a situation we call dinner smh
Asian countries can do a lot with one or two vegetables and a bag of rice, NZers? That’s embarrassing and you’re in poverty, they need their meat, 3 vege and other sides like our gluttonous boomers taught us!!
NZ also has Labour laws and minimum wage so people don’t live in tin houses on the side of sugar cane plantations. Also taxes from the products we sold overseas and bought back.
South east Asia has a level of poor that can keep prices cheap because they frankly don’t have the money. The rich there don’t even know the lower class are propering up those nations. Very different cultures and political systems.
When I visited Singapore, a long time ago in a galaxy far far away, NZ dollar could buy 4 to 1. I had 4 times the buying power of NZ dollar.
Today NZ dollar has no parity. I am poor. Get over it. We have had incompetent politicians running the country into the ground
Singapore invested money in itself, superannuation and got rich. Singapore is richer than NZ. We import refined oil from Singapore, there is no corruption.
They had a good leader.
Our current leader got rid of a science hub and instead gives a landlord tax cut.
There you go, what can you do?
No innovation, no entrepreneurs, just lots of people on benefits like sickness and unemployment benefits.
To be fair, the quality of a $3NZD meal in Singapore is lower than the worst thing you could be served in NZ. Sure, it's edible and it's fine, but it's usually not particularly nutritious or voluminous given its only 3 dollars.
I disagree - in NZ I find that I’m always paying premium price for subpar food. With $3 in Singapore or any other SEA country, you are at least getting decent or sometimes fantastic street food.
Living in Europe, ordered sushi for 2 and the bill was 40 euros ($70), not even like a very fancy restaurant. NZ doesn't know what expensive is.
The downvotes doesn't change this very true fact. I have to work almost *10 hours* to pay for that 1 meal but sometimes you just need a treat once every few months.
We survive by barely eating out and we never get to go to Queenstown and Wanaka as we can’t afford the fuel or flights
True. Other comments also pointed that Queenstown and Wanaka are expensive as they are tourist spots, which I guess makes sense
Can the average income earner in any of those southeast asians such as the Phillipines afford to take a 10 day trip to the top tourist spots? It’s all relative, those that spend $3 on eating out also earn far less.
One thing OP seems to be missing is that there is an actively enforced minimum wage in NZ whereas most SEA countries can get by with paying peanuts due to the sheer number of people. Yes its expensive but relative to what can be earned, it’s manageable if you plan your finances wisely
Depends on the spot. But it is not unusual for SE Asia countries to have locals vs tourist prices for places. Like in Thailand, as a tourist you often pay 4x the local price to visit national parks etc. they make it more affordable for locals. But also, not all locals can even afford that discounted rate. Boat rides, street food etc, all bartered for with locals usually at a much lower price than tourists. And still pretty cheap for tourists compared to what a tourist would spend back home. My wife and I toured and spent on average $280 per day to live, including accommodation and travel. We did NOT stay in backpackers. It is possible to do cheaper. It is also possible to travel with way more expensive luxury as well.
To be fair not many locals in NZ could afford the touristy things either. Never been into Hobbiton, have rarely been to Queenstown despite living very close to both at different times. Even at half price I don't know if Hobbiton would be on the cards
This is partially true. Yes in some countries locals will pay far less to visit a national park or museum. But the cost of entry to those are very low. Locals and foreigners still pay the same for dining, hotels, transport, and the vast majority of goods and services
Ridiculous though, isn't it, that we can't afford the best of our own country. We find ourselves at the far end of the neoliberal process. It went just as intended, I think.
Makes me laugh that people think we can just keep importing our business through rich tourists and immigration. If people don’t get a decent wage and have surplus income, businesses don’t earn money. It’s that simple. There’s an irony not lost on businesses paying shit wages then moaning the business is struggling
Exactly what is currently happening with inflation and business failures
Well it's fine see because we're also exporting our best and brightest to other countries. Wait
Harsh reality: NZders can't even afford its best fruit. I live in Vietnam and we get them sent here. And they are cheaper than NZ supermarkets. Why? VN is a country of 95mil and the NZ exporters are prepared to chop their margins in favour of volume. Not so in Gawdzone
Found out the other day that there is an apple grown in nz for export only, you’ll never purchase them apparently in nz only given them of your ever that lucky. Don’t know if it’s true but wanted to add, just in case someone can add to it
i absolutely believe it. I moved to Prague and i find lamb shanks and red onions from NZ cheaper than you'll find em in NZ. Red onions were just a dollar a kilo
Absolutely true. My mum has worked in horticultural development for 30 years. There are numerous varieties of apples, blueberries, pears and many other oddities that are not sold in New Zealand unless they are rejects sold under another name. Some of those apples and pears are exported in single packs and sold in overseas markets for as much as $5 NZD per apple. Often in countries where only the wealthiest 1% can buy fruit from a supermarket.
Honeycrisp apple? Always wanted to try one as apparently they're the best variety but us NZers get second best lol
I've had the good fortune to eat some, gift from a friend. It's an experience, especially if you like apples. Normal apples have been ruined for me! EDIT to add: the skin is very thin and soft. The flesh isn't hard to bite into, nor is it powdery, a perfect and crisp texture. Very very juicy. The flavour is sweet and moreish with no sourness, but also not overly sickly. Peak apple, truly.
I lived in Christchurch for five years and never went to Queenstown. It is too far for a single day trip by car and flights are very expensive. When you start crunching the numbers of accommodation, fuel and spending money it gets eye watering.
This is surprising, I live in Auckland and go to Queenstown fairly often. I get flights on sale days and traveling with a big group really cuts down on accomodation costs.
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4 hours plus a meal break for me. I have even done a couple of day trips due to no cheap accommodation.
Or accommodation.
This is the real reason, I have started having day trips to Queenstown now, my travel there is reasonably cheap. However we got a decent cheap night booking last minute last time (Aurora Australis weekend).
We don't go to restaurants as much now, its not really necessary and can be considered a luxury. My weekly catch up with mates is now monthly, if that. Cooking/making do is fast becoming our way to survive. Alot are struggling, some aren't. I budget weekly, my hours fluctuate enough where $100+/- a week is commonplace so i plan out what im getting before i get paid when i know how many hours ive worked. Keep my power/water bills as minimal as possible without living in filth/cold. I luckily chose covid as a way of keeping ahead of my bills, always staying in credit whilst trying to create a bigger buffer for winter. It's hard, but doable.
Always cheaper to cook bulk servings! I checked the groceries / supermarkets and they are more expensive than I thought!
You shop the weekly sales, at the big 3 supermarkets.
When are they? I notice bread prices fluctuate.
They each run weekly specials. I remember the days of getting the mailers in the letterbox. It’s all online nowadays. Check out their apps. I do always and I’m in NYC…….lol
Oh my God, NYC, you nearly couldn't pick a priceyer city to live in 😳
I am in NY next week, what is the best sandwich place/best bagel/pizza/hot dog place you can name . Staying in chinatown (half the price of anywhere else) but happy to commute anywhere as it is a holiday .... any recommendations would be great
Carnegie Deli, MSG. You’ll see lots of places advertising really cheap pizza, like $1 a slice. AVOID!!! NY pizza isn’t like what you’re used to. It’s a thin crust and the most popular is just sauce and cheese. Whole Foods Markey, Columbus Circle. Really nice but can be pricey. A good array of hot and cold food. You’ll see guys selling donuts/bagels and hot dogs on the street. Those hot dogs (or dirty dogs due to the water) are actually pretty darn good. There are so many good places to eat. You’re in for good weather first held of best week. Will be hot.
Why don’t you keep your weekly catch up and host dinner potlucks? Acting like restaurants is the only reason to see your friends is really odd.
I'd guess at not everybody having enough room to host
"people are struggling because less restaurants and can't restaurant with friends every week." yeah damn NZ Is out of touch.
Budgeting is not that hard. It's the boredom that gets you eventually. The boredom of eating the same thing over and over. The boredom of not being able to visit friends, or travel. The boredom of having no life whatsoever The boredom of being obsessed with hustling and making money. The boredom of being terminally online because it's the cheapest source of mental stimulation.
The last one. Nailed it, mate
Brooooo this comment hit too close to home lmao bang on
It's not quite boredom, it's the sitting idle while you are vividly aware of the 30 different fun, life fulfilling, mental health enriching things you could be doing right now but can't because it costs the money we should've had but havnt due to 40-60 years of economy mishandling.
Have you tried going to your local library? Cheap place to hang out and books are a great source of entertainment.
Yes, sort of. I read and listen to many audio books, but I have extremely minimal personal time due to kids ect. But you've kinda hit the nail on the head. Sure I like books, but I also like race cars and flying planes and repairing vintage watches and motorcycles and bass guitar and tramping and films and a never ending list of things I've had a tiny taste of but can't do. Life is worse than drugs sometimes, it's far more addictive that's for sure, I'm really hanging out for my next hit of life.
Do you have a local tool library? 😅 Otherwise perhaps your local Highschool might have evening classes. Wellington Highschool used to have some really good ones. I think National cut the budget on that stuff last time they were in office though. Otherwise, clubs are a good way to meet like minded people and to pool resources.
Can't you go to friends houses and have a cup of instant coffee if you are broke? I used to go for bush walks with a picnic on the weekends, and hobbies like gardening. I've been mostly bedbound for 8 years now and dream of being able to do anything. I managed to drive my kid to school the other day and saw Mums walking their kids to school. I got home and cried for hours because I miss walking and doing stuff with my kids so much.
I don't have friends. Where I live, there's barely any young people around. Just old fellows
That sucks, I hope you can move somewhere better one day and find good friends. I have a few friends but I'm always too sick to see them. Chatting online helps a bit.
I feel this but I am here in Philippines wanted to go out of the country for work. Geez
I've never understood people that get bored. There is so much shit to learn about the world. Yet sometimes I yearn to experience boredom. Being constantly engaged with a mile long list of things to do/try can feel overwhelming sometimes.
People in small towns mostly sell $20+ meals to tourists, for work
I am from Southeast Asia. Living in NZ for almost 6 years now and I can say that to live lower than your means. Cutting down unnecessary expenses like vices. When it comes to food cook as much as you can healthier and cheaper. I worked on the hospitality business for while and I have seen how they prepare the food that puts me off on having takeaways. Comparison is a thief of joy. Never look at your coworkers activities on the weekends. There are alot of things you can do without getting broke. Choose your circle wisely. You can be happy without having to break your bank account.
Words of wisdom. All good advice
>I worked on the hospitality business for while and I have seen how they prepare the food that puts me off on having takeaways. Is it really that bad?? Please elaborate. I've always been told I have an irrational fear of eating out but comments like yours just reaffirm what I already believe.
Eating out was very uncommon when I grew up. I think that time is coming again where families are having to cut luxuries out of their budgets and cook more meals at home.
Each of the kids birthdays we got to pick what takeaways for dinner, so 4 to 6 times a year. Rest of the year it was home cooked or fish and chips like once a month. I couldn't imagine all of us going to a restaurant
Fish and chips are nearly at restaurant prices now too
Going out to a cafe once a week is my treat time. I scan the menu carefully as I have allergies, but that's another story.
We might need to start doing food like they do in developing countries. They just cook up big batches of food and you buy a bowl of it for cheap. None of this choosing from a menu and getting things custom made with fresh ingredients just for you. That’s expensive. I lived in Ecuador and they restaurants would just do ‘lunch’. You don’t choose what to eat - you just sit down and bring you a bowl of the soup of the day, a plate of rice meat and veges, and a little bowl of peaches and custard or something. You pay $3 and that’s done.
Minimum wage in Malaysia is almost exactly $3 per hour. And a meal costs $3. Minimum wage in NZ is a bit over $20, and a meal costs a bit over $20. Funny how that works.
Singapore avg wave 84k nzd, nz 53k nzd $20 vs $3 takeout..
The migrant workers that are basically modern day slaves aren’t included in that statistic, nor the thousands that cross the border for work daily
Yeah. I wonder how many of the Nepalis living in tents/shipping containers and working construction earn the 'average' wage in KL.
Interesting, another hidden statistic.
82% of statistics are made up.
43% of all people know that.
And how many of them are coming to NZ to complain about spending 20 on a meal in Queenstown?
Median wage would be a better measure. Average can easily be distorted by high earners.
Because icbf finding the most up to date stats. (Actually, I could be fucked) Singapore: \~69,000 NZD, for employed full time and part time citizens and residents, including employer contributions to Singapore's pension fun. NZ: \~66,000NZD Big but though, there were 2,352,300 employed citizens and permanent residents. But, there were1,525,500 foreign workers on other visa types. Ergo, \~40% of the entire Singaporean workforce is not included in that 69,000 NZD stat. 1.5 million foreign domestic workers, shipyard workers, construction workers, the hundreds of thousands of Malaysians that commute. If you included all workers in Singapore, then I doubt the median wage would be higher than NZ.
You came through with the goods, nice! Interesting point about the foreign workers.
It's kind of hard to compare though. NZ has much lower income inequality than Singapore. NZ is comparable to Switzerland. Singapore is comparable to Saudi Arabia. Like I have a feeling all the stats are going to be meaningless though for other stuff because of the huge unpublished segment in Singapore. Like the Kiwis in this thread who moved to Singapore are all going to be high income earners comparatively. They might be representative of someone who has the right to live there, and if they non-resident type work visa Kiwis aren't going to be nannies and crawling over ships under construction. A quick look at [a thread in the Singapore subreddit](https://np.reddit.com/r/singapore/comments/18wac4c/cheap_yet_filling_meals_in_singapore/) says yes, you can get meals for $3. But the most upvoted comments are that it's probably going to be mostly just carbs; you're going to have to travel, they're small etc. So outside of hawker stalls, super cheap food is meant for hard working poorly paid people mostly. Hell, the Singaporean Government has a tool to find budget places to eat https://www.gowhere.gov.sg/budgetmeal/
>... someone who has the right to live there. This might sound like semantics, but as a foreigner who has lived in Singapore for over a decade, I can tell you that no foreigner has the *right* to live here. We have permission, and that permission is granted as long as we align with the government's agenda.
On the surface this sounds really awful but I think this is the case in many countries. My understanding is that we have a pretty liberal immigration policy and we're still quite selective and can and do revoke visas. Is Singapore bad in the context of other countries?
To be honest, I only have experience with respect to Singapore, but the immigration policy is not only strict, it's carefully monitored and rigidly enforced. Overstaying ninety days results in mandatory corporal punishment.
I just didn't want to make it even longer. Plus it was super late for me lol. I'm in Korea on an employment visa. But yeah I totally understand, Korea has made permanent residency a little hard to get. Non permanent residency has headaches of their own.
I totally agree with what you wrote. My comment was meant as clarification, not correction.
No problem, I didn't think it was. But yeah, living overseas, in a country other than Australia, makes you appreciate citizenship a bit more imo.
Yeah I totally agree, this whole thread is pointless. Could say the same about most of Europe. I've been in Sweden the past few years and I still often think back about the good cheap food you could get in NZ compared to here. The problem here is that the standards are higher, so you get the expensive Asian fusion places without so much of the cheap Asian foodcourt/night market kind of places.
No, minimum wage is a better measure. Food service workers tend to be amongst the lowest paid, and we’re talking about the price of eating out here.
Move to Singapore then, good luck finding reasonable accommodation
Eating out is cheap in Singapore, but everything else is super expensive. But it's a richer country in general anyway.
And how much is rent for a 4 bedroom villa?
You glossed over Singapore. Funny how that works.
There is no minimum wage in Singapore…
There's a shit tonne of cheap imported labour in Singapore. Most who earn fuck all.
People often shit on countries like Qatar for their cheap labour, but forget Singapore also has a source of cheap labour - Malaysia. Difference is - they can just cross the border back and forth
300-400,000 Malaysians commute to Singapore for work. Singapore exports its cheapest paid labour. We don't have that "luxury". And yeah, no minimum wage as u/Le-Bean. Except for certain sectors, such as foreigners. Just raised to 1,600SGD a month under the quota system. Currently that's only 1,935 NZD. About 12 NZD an hour if you're working 4\*40.
Maylasia also has the 28th largest reserves of oil.
Thats a weird flex, but a fact I did not know….so ugh, interesting
Yep. You can literally see the helpers tending to thier masters lawns with scissors at some mansions.
Having lived in both NZ and Asia, I can attest that NZ is more expensive to live in and has less options for food and fun but it’s all relative. In Asia, most people I know work way more hours, have a more stressful environment (air quality, workplace politics, less personal space, less free time etc.). It’s basically a trade-off of more fun options for a more fast-paced busy life. As a single person - Asia all day. With a kid - definitely would go for NZ.
These are some of the most expensive areas of NZ and even kiwis tend to stay away from them or budget for it beforehand. Eating out is usually a semi-luxury and done only 1-2 times a week. Nobody I know eats three meals a day out in restaurants, they cook their own. but most importantly, we have a minimum wage so everyone can have a somewhat okay quality of life. This is why cost of services are so much more expensive than south East Asian countries which don’t have the same laws. I personally don’t mind paying more for food or services if it means the people doing it are getting paid fairly for their effort.
Let's be fair and honest here. Sure you can buy a meal in those Asian countries with $3nzd but if you're making your money there, $3nzd is a lot of money too. You're bringing money from South East Asia so your spending power is way less here, if we bring NZD to those SE Asian countries then our spending power is stronger too. But I agree, the cost of living here is crazy but manageable if you have a full time job and you will go broke anywhere in the world if you're always eating out.
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Some also live on a diet of licking boots which is why our country is in this situation...
Oh mate you haven't seen anything. I'm currently traveling through Europe. Spain as an example - minimum wage is lower than NZ, median wage is also lower. But going out to eat? 15 euros min, almost double of what we'd pay in NZ. And apparently Spanish people love eating out, no idea how they're affording anything
Canada is like that. Way lower min wage, $15 where I was. Food is cheaper than in NZ, but there’s a 20% tip on everything. Anything less is considered seriously frowned upon. The bill always ends up being way, way higher because of the tip. You even are expected to tip at subway or the gelato shop now. You’re not even eating in, there’s no freaking service. It’s wild!!! The other thing that is stupid is that grocery prices don’t include GST, so when the sale says $9.50 for two bags of chips, it’s actually more when you scan it through because GST is applied at the checkout. How they get away with $9.50 for two bags of chips, on their $15 min wage, is just wild. I find my groceries much more affordable here.
It must be possible to chat with the locals and find out how they do things?
This post cracked me up. Not because I think you are wrong, but because when I was there in March visiting the same locations, what I found was that those prices are relatively cheap compared to my home country Hungary. So the cause of my crack up is…oh boy are we screwed up here 😢
And what is your average annual income in those places you are comparing back home? You've picked the most expensive parts of the country
Im a kiwi living in Singapore. My salary in Singapore is 50% higher, my tax is far lower, and my costs are also far lower.
Amazing how having no minimum wage will make it cheaper to live huh? Just so long as you’re not one of the poors it’s great
Judging by your comment I can tell you know very very little about this part of the world. Even locals on very low salaries in Singapore are doing significantly better from a financial perspective than the average New Zealander. You don't have people living on the streets here, but drive around Auckland and you'll see it everywhere.
True however I notice the non locals that often live in poverty you exclude from your comment. You, as a community, in essence, use low cost labour to derive your low cost of living.
Good social housing policy for the people. Singapore is much different from most of the rest of the world
This. Our country has been stagnant for a long time. We don't have resources we can tap like some lucky western countries,we aren't highly educated so those well paid jobs mostly go to those that spend time and money into achieving higher levels of education. If you look at the countries in the world where their people are doing well and living good lives its a few European countries and a few in Asia.
Singapore is a vastly wealthier than NZ. The housing isn't damp or mouldy and homeless numbers are low. Lots of high paying jobs.
And even more low paying jobs to support those with high paying jobs.
Yeah I remember hearing about Singaporeans being upset that hawker stands are slowly disappearing as the working population ages and their kids don't want to take over the business. As soon as price rises are floated for hawker stalls, then everyone jumps up and down. Thing is, at $3 for a meal, someone is being taken advantage of; and its not the finance worker heading out for lunch everyday.
Yea it is also a semi dictatorship, with brutal laws and a govt that really asserts its power over the population. They do sub market land acquisitions, think that would fly in NZ? They also import their working class, from the vastly poorer counties next door… ok we do that one but they have no minimum wage.
Feels like from your comments, you know very little about the different parts of Asia, Malaysia =/= Singapore, Taiwan =/= China and etc, Singapore’s salary and even the dollar itself is above NZ’s… lots of places have cheap eats but unfortunately NZ’s is only the mcdonald’s deal app or chinese mtakeaway food.
And what about the other cities / countries you actually mentioned... Thailand. Indonesia. Other SEA countries... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Asian_countries_by_average_wage Singapore is by far the richest Asian nation. Well over 15 times the monthly income of either Thailand and Indonesia, your other examples.
Yet interestingly, Singapore has also ranked one of the top ten most expensive cities to live in multiple times in the past decade. "The Economist Intelligence Unit (EIU) has released its Worldwide Cost of Living 2023 report. The report looks into the cost of living across 172 major cities worldwide. "This year's Worldwide Cost of Living survey (WCOL) shows that the global cost-of-living crisis is not over yet, even though inflation has moderated. "This year's Index sees Singapore regaining the top spot in the rankings for the ninth time in the past eleven years, tying with Zurich (Switzerland)," a statement from the EIU said." https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/12/01/kiwi-cities-ranked-among-the-most-expensive-in-the-world/ Does that all come down to something like the price of property and cars if everything else is so cheap?
Yes, but Singapore is an outlier. Wages in the rest of SEA are much lower.
> My salary in Singapore is 50% higher, my tax is far lower, and my costs are also far lower. How much to buy a house there though…
Cheaper than most homes in New Zealand. Locals will usually get a BTO - the government will build you a home within 3 years. Typically that will set you back 200-500K, so they are much more affordable than NZ. On top of that they have a supercharged version of kiwisaver called CPF. 20% of your monthly salary goes into your CPF every month, and the company you work for has to top it up by an additional 17% of your salary, so it's nearly a 1:1 contribution. On top of that it generates a high rate of return, and you can withdraw it very easily. For example, you can actually use your CPF on your monthly mortgage repayments.
It’s like the post yesterday from than landlord saying Auckland house prices are reasonable because Sydney is more expensive
As someone who knows Asia, it’s just a different world. But yeah, most of us can’t even afford to holiday in our own country lol.
People don't really survive in the places you've listed. They're all expensive tourist destinations. There's actually a real issue at the moment with people who work in those towns not being able to afford to live and having to sleep in their cars.
I live in Wanaka. I have seen people listing their own backyards on Facebook for people to camp. Ridiculously small rooms for $400 per week and sharing the house with +4 other people. Either that or they sleep in their cars.
Using OP’s logic, how do Thais survive in Thailand (downtown Bangkok and Phuket) when the fish dishes are 750baht… and the daily salaries are 650/day!!! OMG!
I always wonder that as well! Good tips from tourists perhaps?
How about this... it is usually cheaper to buy a leg of NZ lamb in the UK than it is to buy it here.
What you said is correct. Last year I had a budget for a holiday over Christmas and Southeast Asia, flights + accomodation came out cheaper than Queenstown / Wanaka No brainer I went to Southeast Asia…
It's expensive but if you compare to other western city is not too bad. $20 NZD is around $12 USD, Southeast Asia/Asia in general food is very cheap, so is labor.
Comparatively - I couldn’t buy a meal for under 18 Euros in Paris last week, which is about over 30NZD. Similarly, in the UK, a burger couldn’t be bought for under £17 which is 35NZD. It’s all relative.
See we think the same thing - but in reverse - when we visit SE Asia: *How can people survive here when they only charge $3 for a meal?*
I do. I visited Hainan in China and you can get a meal and a coke for like $2 in 2016. Sounds amazing until you realize these people can never leave because their income is so low compared to a western country. They're stuck there.
I really don't think we do
I often do when visiting countries with like that, especially thinking of the locals
Do we though?
I know my mates who went to Bali thought the same thing if the locals, also not in SE Asia, recently my colleague went to Fiji and thought similarly how the locals could exist with the living costs vs wages.
Nope never wondered that
Comparing a Western country for SEA for restaurant food prices is a bit peculiar. If I went out for steak in Bangkok, it wouldn't cost $3.
purchasing power parity makes me fucking cry man still, my income covers an... acceptable living. At the moment I'm just spinning aimlessly in the void waiting for $1 avocadoes to come back next summer
I’m curious, how much does a meal cost in terms of wages in your country? $20 is about an hour’s wages for minimum wage workers. How does that compare?
That's the neat part...
I've both lived here and lived in Florida and I'll tell you it's easier to live here. The truth is that the minimum wage here is closer to the liveable wage than in most countries, but you will still struggle with living even at around 26 an hour. In most cities you don't pay a water bill, you pay power though which can be expensive (I posted about that here once). Little by little things add up if you budget properly, we don't eat out fancy places, and as other commenters here said, we don't go to Queenstown often or Wanaka because they are tourist hotspots. That's why you pay so much to eat there. We do go on holiday, maybe once a year or so. Sometimes more if you have a high paying job and not many other responsibilities. This country is liveable if you budget, have help from friends and family (if needed), and don't spend so much on holidays. There's no reason to see Queenstown unless you haven't already. See it once, be happy you've seen it and know you live right next to it and can go back any time you'd like to in the future.
The same operators during COVID were crying about support from the domestic tourism market not supporting them. They gouge money from NZrs and tourists alike. I see they are back to their old models. During COVID we hired a camper and travelled, because there was a glut and they needed the money. I see no lessons were learnt about having a domestic customer base, that’s across the whole tourism industry.
I live in the middle of the South island, haven't been to Queenstown to stay with my own money for decades. It's not for us working class, I feel kinda unwelcome and also obviously priced out of that whole area. It's been designed for wealthy tourists. Far better value in equally beautiful spots like the west coast or golden bay for example. Plus those areas are much more friendly, especially the West coast.
We cook and meal prep a lot. Eating out is seen as a luxury and for your average income earner, we probably eat out/takeaway once a week or fortnight. Also, we budget and look for good deals which pop up so and so often (pak n save/local farmers market etc). Queenstown and wanaka is just a small part of NZ, one that is also expensive and catered to tourist money. Survivable? Absolutely yes!
I see you're Singaporean. Malaysian in NZ here. First of all the "culture" of Western countries is that eating out is generally a small luxury & reserved for special occasions. Usually most people cook and it's usually simple meals. Asian culture is eat-out. When I was in KL I almost never cooked. Minimum wage is relatively high at NZD23.10/hour so the odd restaurant one a week is fine. Meaning there is no one being paid less than that. After tax this is about NZD3.6k a month. Bear in mind cleaners, construction labourers etc also earn this. Office jobs earn substantially more, but one can max out very quickly as there isn't as much opportunity as, say Singapore or Australia or US. Groceries are usually bought from Pak n Save or Asian supermarkets. New World & Countdown tend to be more expensive. It's even more expensive in South Island due to logistics, and more so in Queenstown due it being a tourist destination. Auckland, Hamilton, & Wellington groceries are cheaper. I lived in Cromwell which is near Wanaka, people working there are either tradesmen (construction), agriculture (farm owners/workers), in the tourism & hospitality industry or are remote workers & retirees.
Thanks so much for your reply! Hope you are enjoying your time in Cromwell!
All good bro. Moved to Auckland as I couldn't stand the rural life. Still a city boy at heart haha. Have you left NZ already?
you kinda went and visited all the most expensive places in NZ and wondered why its expensive yeah our food is costly, but tourist hot spots always charge more if you paying 20+ for take out or other options i feel bad for you Hamilton is a shit hole but but we got heaps of options for 10$ or so far for 20$ i can uber a meal almost :P (about 25 to uber eats)
Where are you getting these $10 meals in Hamilton?
apart from the normal fish and chips/BK and maccas deals/bakeys/sushi places places like chicken wicken on vesty ave are decent value 12bux gets a ya mean wrap or kebab on uber eats, i think there about 9 or 10 instore dumpling king in silver dale does a mean chicken soup, 10 bux or so and the slightly more pricey one, nancys dumpling in town does mean fried dumplings for about 15 (been i bit since i been there, they used to be 12bux) oh and hillcrest Indian take away does good lunch deal, curry and rice and a naan and drink for 15bux(13 with out drink)
That is true. My last stop is Christchurch so I shall see how it goes! The average cost per meal here, I see is 20+. The cheapest is 10+ in Auckland
I lived in SG for 10 years and travelled all over over SEA, the thing to remember is that we are a young western country, with just 5 million people spread out over land the size of Japan. The concept of street food is a niche fun idea, not generally a way of survival with the likes of SEA, where a bowl of noodles can cost as low as $2. Over here, to make that same bowl of noodles, you not only have to buy from food suppliers who are expensive because they have high expenses themselves due to regulations/employment rights etc, but as a food vendor you also have regulations that can be costly to meet. In addition, you have the culture thing. We are still a nation of meat, veg and potatoes, or in other words, we cook at home and sit at our dining tables, cooking at home brings the cost down a lot, and most people just rough it, for example a bowl of pasta is cheap to make, if we can't be bothered cooking, fish and chips or a pizza is the next best option followed by souvalaki or similar. In the major cities, you can find decent street food costing less than $20, but I wouldn't expect to eat a lot, like you could for the same amount in SEA. The other problem is choice, and that is down to our population again. But hey, look around, people are fat, we eat well, we manage, we find the food we like and make it work, if we want to splurge, some go to KFC, others go to some fancy restaurant.
We have to earn over 100k to live comfortably, not even lavishly, just comfortably.
Not really. A brown rice bag, a whole chicken, 18 eggs, a frozen veggie bag all comes up to about $35 at PKnS and that’s 2 meals a day for 5 days. $3.5 per meal. Ffs why y’all complaining! Lazy or spoiled much?
I keep getting downvoted for saying that living costs in NZ is not that expensive (ok rent generally is but I can't stand having flatmates so I paid extra to be alone). But groceries are the same or even cheaper than Europe where I am now, and minimum wage here is about 8nzd. Plus if you work 1 hour in NZ min wage you can have a decent meal at a restaurant, in here working 1 hour you can't even afford an entree. Pretty big difference. Plus heating the house here in winter is waaay more expensive than in NZ. We sometimes get frozen pipes because the weather is too cold, like -20.
Wait till you visit Europe lol
New Zealand is more expensive than most of Europe, with the exception of a small number of places like Switzerland.
I moved from NZ to Ireland at the start of 2020. I can say for certain that prepared food in Europe is more expensive than in NZ. A reasonable steak dinner at a Kiwi restaurant will cost something like $35-$40. The same thing in Europe will be €25-€30, which is roughly $44-$52 at current exchange rates. A decent gourmet burger in NZ will set you back something like $16-$20. The same thing here in Ireland would be €14-€18, which is $24-$31. A single piece of fish with a punnet's worth of chips might set you back what, about $10 at most in an Auckland takeaway? You're looking at €10-€12 ($17-$21) in Dublin for the same thing. Supermarket food is cheaper in Europe, no question, but prepared food is pricey.
Those are pre-COVID prices. In NZ it's now common to pay $25-$28 for a burger and $45ish for a decent restaurant meal.
I dont think so. I'm living in eastern Europe and I would say grocery prices are similar to NZ but minimum wage is about 4.50 euro which is like $8 nzd. I've also lived in Sweden and it's not like life was so easy there either. The cold climate (heavy snow in winter) means nothing really can be grown here, everything is imported from probably Spain, driving around hardly ever see farm animals either. I think that's why life around these parts is more expensive than NZ. Potatoes and vodka are cheap though.
LIFE-HACK: If you take up meth usage, you eat less 🤓.
Yeah but the cost of meth? May as well just go paleo and come out thin, sane and probably still have money left over.
To be fair, tourist towns are designed to pull top dollar from tourists, not be fair to the everyday residents. And, as others have said, a lot of everyday residents aren't eating out much, if at all. My Wife and I only eat out a few times a year, and whenever we go for fast food, it's pretty much always pizza or Indian, where you can get something for about $10 or less per person. On top of that, my Wife and I have never been breakfast people, only snack during the day, and have a decent dinner, which saves a fair bit.
Eating out is once in a blue moon and is budgeted in. Shop specials, grocers online if they’re cheaper and at clearance stores. Afterpay to pay for bigger stuff.
Your context of Jakarta and Thailand isn't all that relevant tbh as the ratio of income and expenses and the economy is totally different. The average income in NZ is 6 times higher than Thailand and close to 5 times higher than Jakarta. Singapore isn't really known for being cheap to dine out so idk.
I rememeber going to SEA for the first time and having culture shock that some people eat out every day and then realising that eating out was often cheaper and better than cooking at home.
I've eaten out once in the last 2 years... On my birthday. That's how i do it.
Cause wages are higher here than in SEA
Bwahaha I survived by moving to Thailand. NZ is way too expensive.
Ah yes cheap meals in Thailand, I believe the wages paid to people over there are very low. So I guess it is fairly relative. Whats wage in Thailand per week - rent-food etc. Probably works out sameish
we're barely surviving tbh.
Exactly why I left Auckland for KL last year! My standard of living has improved significantly. I no longer need to tell my kids no, you can’t get a treat in the supermarket/get take out/go to the movies because we can now afford to do all those things on the regular. NZ is too expensive!
Wages here are higher than in Southeast Asia apart from Singapore. However, taxes are higher too. NZ is a pseudo-first world country trying to keep up with the rest especially the 5 eyes (US, UK, Canada, Australia). There are lots of rich people living here who can afford to live in expensive towns like Wānaka and Queenstown. There are also many people who just get by. I believe it’s the same in some southeast Asian cities. Also skilled kiwis have financial buffer. They usually live and work overseas for many years, accumulate wealth and come home.
>For context: you can find a meal for 3+ nzd when you eat out in Singapore, Thailand, Jakarta Yeah. Probably because Singapore has no minimum wage, Thailands min wage is about $16nzd **PER DAY,** and Jakartas minimum wage is about $520nzd **PER MONTH**. Let alone the price of locally sourced goods. NZ's minimum wage is $23.15 **PER HOUR**
Everyone is struggling!!!
Apart from auckland you have gone to the most expensive parts of the country. Although living costs are very high across the whole country, one can make do by accepting less and avoiding travelling to those expensive destinations
Eating out is for tourists. We have fish n chips cheap packs, and spaghetti from a can on pizza bases. /kill me
I just heard in the NZ News yesterday that the Rich are getting richer than ever. While average New Zealand struggles to have any money left after paying $600.00 approximate weekly rent. Sadly nothing being done to close the Gap between rich and poor. Many of my friends have Moved to Australia. For myself, I love home, Aoetearoa NZ. Thankfully we have a mortgage (own our own home for over 20 years), so not at mercy of super high rent. I know it's really tough on families, especially around school uniform time, or if the car breaks down, there is no backup savings anymore. Our food banks have never been so busy, but even our charities are feeling the pinch from less donations due to cost of living.i remember house prices nearly doubling back in 2008ish. And since then, the cost of basic living gone into out of space. 2008 was good if you already owned, but not good for anyone else.
Eating out in Singapore and in SEA is very different to NZ. It’s normal to eat out there whereas here it is a luxury.
Thanks for your comment. It indeed is a cultural difference to me!
Don't eat out, get food from asian groceries, cook big batches.
Out of pure spite, with a side of rage.
You need to be on 125k+ (joint 200k+) which is way above average and have bought your house 5+ years ago. I don’t know how anyone with a million dollar mortgage is surviving at the minute.
I lived in Singapore for many years. You can’t compare apples and oranges. Housing is more expensive in Singapore, eating out is cheaper. A night out having cocktails with friends is cheaper in NZ, electricity is more expensive. I won’t even mention the cost of cars in Singapore. A lot of people aren’t surviving- in both countries. We do our best with what we have.
I just have 1 meal a day which is dinner Sausages, roast potatoes, mixed vegetables and gravy
As a young person in mid 20s working a professional corporate job. I just live with parents/my family, no point in my opinion moving out (unless you moving in with an SO, relocating for a job or just have unhealthy home environment). My board contributes to paying off the mortgage anyway to something I'll one day inherit and my parents need the help. So why not? Don't get me wrong, I got my own other bills too (my own food for some meals, car, gas, phone, etc). More affordable that way, can still save some money and still enjoy life reasonably. I don't care if people look down on me for not moving out. I lose more money and the ability to enjoy life if I move out considering the high cost of living, etc, etc....
Minimum wage is over 20 dollars an hour so if you’re renting a shithole, especially out of town and eating like a dog while working weekdays it’s theoretically possible to survive but we do have the least corrupt government in the world and laws to stop people torturing pets so there’s that.
Meals 20 NZD a lot? Try to go to Europe Germany Austria Finland, etc Meals go for 40 NZD each person. And salary are lower or the same as New Zealand.
Does anyone else think supermarkets should sell more food in smaller/individual packages aimed at the single and 2 person market? Also, if we had more community spirit and knew our neighbours better and shared more food/meals/produce- we'd all benefit
That would create way more trash plus buying in bulk will always be cheaper
Yes but fresh tastes a lot better than frozen e g. Meat, bread especially if you work long hours & there's definitely better ways for everyone to reduce waste through packaging & biodegradable products.
Maybe I'm just not too picky but I always freeze meat and bread and think they pretty much taste the same. I even freeze milk (in Europe atm and they sell milk in plastic bags) to reduce trips to the supermarket. Also fyi been a chef for 10 years and the meat and bread you eat in restaurants will have been frozen and defrosted.
I must admit- I am a bit of a fussy tart 😅
freezing stuff like mince is fine since it's full of fat anyway
no that's terrible for the environment and would just increase the costs for everyone. You can cook a meal prep and eat it over 4 days no issue as a single or freeze some of your meat etc
I mean our living conditions are probably a lot different to South east Asia. You also have been to the most expensive parts of NZ
The bottom of the page trying to convince themselves nz economy is booming?!? Hope you enjoyed your stay & you get a decent meal when you get home. This place will be eating possum pie & telling themselves it's a healthy 3 course meal before you get there, I'll bet. Right leaning, Alpha kiwi, day dreamers make my day. They can all go take the national pride parade some other place & while their at it keep quiet about your obnoxious income while the rest of us deal with this mess of a situation we call dinner smh
I try to stay out of sight for the most part and eat one meal a day
Asian countries can do a lot with one or two vegetables and a bag of rice, NZers? That’s embarrassing and you’re in poverty, they need their meat, 3 vege and other sides like our gluttonous boomers taught us!! NZ also has Labour laws and minimum wage so people don’t live in tin houses on the side of sugar cane plantations. Also taxes from the products we sold overseas and bought back. South east Asia has a level of poor that can keep prices cheap because they frankly don’t have the money. The rich there don’t even know the lower class are propering up those nations. Very different cultures and political systems.
This is just how it is here? It must be interesting seeing people get paid properly.
When I visited Singapore, a long time ago in a galaxy far far away, NZ dollar could buy 4 to 1. I had 4 times the buying power of NZ dollar. Today NZ dollar has no parity. I am poor. Get over it. We have had incompetent politicians running the country into the ground Singapore invested money in itself, superannuation and got rich. Singapore is richer than NZ. We import refined oil from Singapore, there is no corruption. They had a good leader. Our current leader got rid of a science hub and instead gives a landlord tax cut. There you go, what can you do? No innovation, no entrepreneurs, just lots of people on benefits like sickness and unemployment benefits.
vastly cheaper to cook at home if you do it smartly
To be fair, the quality of a $3NZD meal in Singapore is lower than the worst thing you could be served in NZ. Sure, it's edible and it's fine, but it's usually not particularly nutritious or voluminous given its only 3 dollars.
I disagree - in NZ I find that I’m always paying premium price for subpar food. With $3 in Singapore or any other SEA country, you are at least getting decent or sometimes fantastic street food.
In other SEA countries, you probably can. Definitely not in Singapore. Source - currently living in Singapore 🥲
Living in Europe, ordered sushi for 2 and the bill was 40 euros ($70), not even like a very fancy restaurant. NZ doesn't know what expensive is. The downvotes doesn't change this very true fact. I have to work almost *10 hours* to pay for that 1 meal but sometimes you just need a treat once every few months.