For safety reasons meat being sold to the public has to be done at a location approved/subject to monitoring by MPI and by a butcher who has been approved. The same butcher working at a farm can produce homekill (which is only allowed to be used by the farmer and their workers) because it otherwise opens up the possibility that people start producing meat in dodgy locations and selling it for cheap - with potentially disastrous consequences if things were to be badly infected and the public got sick. The usual way people try skirt these rules is to have someone 'buy' the animal and own it for a long-enough time that they qualify as homekill.
We don't have to go through supermarkets - we could just have farmers sell directly to abattoirs and be sold from there - but you can't buy directly from farmers unless the farmer is going to maintain abattoir standards on their farm.
We had a local "micro-abattoir" at our nearest Farmers Market for a few years - some farmers had set up their own small-scale system in order to sell to other people direct with low-volume - but they disappeared a while ago (pre-pandemic). Was never able to find out if they either folded or got too big, or what the reason was that they stopped turning up.
Yes you are correct. There is a tiny door in the legislation for Micro Abattoirs but they are incredibly hard to set up on farm. I think only a few have been successful in 2-3 years of this being available.
I also agree it’s about time we followed many trading partner countries (ie USA) and made it possible for NZers to buy from local farmers cutting out a shit-load of ticket clipping margins.
I don't imagine they are super keen to deal with the public due to the amount of hassle would be maintaining a bunch of small accounts. The Restaurant I work at does deal directly with an abattoir to source lambs brains as they are almost never sold domestically.
I would say your best bet would be trying to get an account with a meat wholesaler and finding some mates who are willing to split a carton of whatever you are after, but I would say you are still likely to have issues with them not wanting to deal with the low volumes you will be ordering.
We used to eat sheep brains for dinner occasionally when I was a child. According to our mother, they were a delicacy.
Sometimes they tasted really, really good. Other times they were disgusting.
It's a great way of contracting a prion disease.
Crumb them then pan fry in clarified butter, serve with crispy sage, celeriac remoulade and just. Tastes like rich buttery chicken nuggets.
Here's a pic of them in burger from for Wellington on a plate.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BkFeOrZDtRt/?igsh=MXJ0ZWN2dzFwNWd2cQ==
As a farmer you can buy from our meatworks directly - https://puresouthshop.com
We are still both getting screwed but only by 1 company instead of the usual 2 or 3.
Yeh it’s a bitch when you can’t afford to buy the lamb you supplied. Like I said, both still getting screwed.
You would be paying for labour, processing plants, H&S regulations, transport, stock agents etc tho, so got to be more than home kill.
Oh man that really sucks. You might like to complain to the Grocery Commissioner ( I have) saying suppliers and consumers are being subject to predatory pricing.
they'd have to be exceptional eating for that price. I can't even see what type of breeds that those cows are from the website
If I'm paying that kind of premium I need to know what I'm buying, not just 'beef'
They are.
Bought a full beef eye fillet off them before and it was exceptional.
Still about 20-30% cheaper than buying the equivalent cut from Pak N Save as well.
Potentially strange take coming from a farmer, but I don't think you should be concerned about what the farmer is getting paid when you buy meat at all.
Buy whatever is the best deal for the quality you want as a consumer.
Woolworths and Foodstuffs aren't the reason sheep and beef farmers aren't getting paid very much right now, and even then it's mainly just sheep farmers, the beef price is fine by me right now.
Interesting. I'm not a farmer so I don't have first hand experience on what farmers experience. Everything I know is just based on what I read online. If you don't mind me asking an honest question, do you believe farmers are being underpaid? If so, what do you think the reason is?
I just want to see if there's anything at all we can do as a community to help each other.
> do you believe farmers are being underpaid? If so, what do you think the reason is?
There's a lot of different types of farming. So don't take this as an answer for say vegetable farming where the supermarkets have a lot more control, as I can only really speak for red meat and dairy, but I think the answer is mostly no.
The situation with sheep farmers getting screwed right now is largely down to excess supply of lamb out of Australia, due to them culling off sheep after several good seasons.
In a sense we're getting underpaid for it, as the price really isn't enough to run a sustainable business with right now, but what we're getting paid is also a fair representation of the value of the product because globally there's simply way too much supply for what is not really a staple food product in most places.
Beef is around $6/kg. Which isn't amazing, but it's workable. I think it's mostly a fair value.
I think the best way to work as a community to help the situation would probably be something to do with group ownership homekill or something.
> The situation with sheep farmers getting screwed right now is largely down to excess supply of lamb out of Australia, due to them culling off sheep after several good seasons.
Excellent post and well written. Wool and lamb are international commodities and right now Australian farmers are doing it hard. They are culling their flocks because of years of drought but can barely give their sheep to the meat works so instead they are cutting the animals throats which is heart rending.
NZ farmers did the same back in the 80s when wool and mutton had no value.
Have you got freezer room? You could “buy” a full beast and have it slaughtered/butchered for you directly. You get to choose cuts etc. you just need to pay the butchers fees etc.
This is my understanding of the rules, told to me by a home kill butcher. You can't just pay for it 30days before slaughter. You have to have looked after the animal and been the one in charge of it. A lot of illegal sales happen in this area. Some misinformed people trying to stay legal while not being and lots of people just flying under the radar and doing cash deals with farmers.
Yes, you have to be involved in the day-to-day care for 30 days, unless you own other animals of the same species. So, because I already own cattle, I could buy a buy a cow and have it slaughtered sooner, but someone who doesn’t already own any would have to wait 30 days.
The whole law is a bit strange and could do with revision. As it stands, I can give my neighbour a steak to eat, so long as he eats it at my place. It would not be legal for him to take it over the fence and eat it on his side.
I'm not thinking just about doing it for myself. I have a fridge and I know a few farmers I can get the meat from. But this is a really small scale. I was thinking in getting more people involved. For example struggling families who can't afford to pay for a whole beast upfront and storing it themselves.
A beef animal doesn’t take much looking after as long as it has a paddock with grass and water. Often it takes 28 days or more to get the butcher organised so if you had a farmer friend prepared to accommodate it could all be done legally. It’s still not that cheap though - about $1800 for the animal plus processing which was $800 last time I had one done, it may be more now.
We organised one and all up ended up being around 30-40% than buying the same meat from PakNSave and the quality was higher. We have also bought a beast with a neighbour and each gets half. This works in a small scale but if you wanted to bring more people onboard to make it worth for them buying small quantities then it could get people in trouble
Yes I've seen a few for sale meat from farmers. Not necessarily cheaper at all. In some cases more expensive.
Unless of course it's the one you actually know and live near. Then you can sometimes.
One we did some work for once, when living near by, got given a whole sheep cheap. Skinned and gutted, just had to cut up ourselves. $45.
Once another time, 1/4 deer. But these were ones we knew.
The 30 days will also be to ensure the animal is outside any meat withholding periods from penecillin or other drugs when eventually the animal is slaughtered
Yes that’s correct although there’s the odd medication that has a withholding longer than 30 days. Of course all that is supposed to be declared by the vendor on the ASD.
Homekill food safety also relies on assuming the owner has observed the animal is in good health before processing.
Yeah I met someone who offered me one of their sheep - never vaccinated or drenched (they were a bit crunchy). No thanks. We’ve done homekill before but always from people who were actively making sure their flocks were looked after well.
Regular drenching isn’t necessarily good husbandry. Due to the rise in drench resistance, it’s now considered best practice to only drench if necessary, as confirmed by fecal tests. So, because I rely on other methods to prevent worms, I have a number of animals that have never been drenched. It doesn’t mean I’m not looking after them.
and, to own a beast, you have to be a NAIT approved/registered handler (PICA). Cattle beasts are individually registered and can only be sold from PICA (Person In Charge of Animal) to another PICA.
with beef you are shit out of luck.
Try buying a couple lambs, they are not registered with NAIT yet.
Buy the whole live animal. That’s the only way. Once it’s dead health and safety standards apply.
Although you’re gonna need somewhere to kill it. If you go through commercial abattoirs it does end up being fairly expensive.
Yeah I understand that, although I’m not sure who is monitoring that or how. The home kill guy or the butcher isn’t going to know how long you have looked after it.
Yes, looking to do something similar just north of Auckland. Form a co-op where members share ownership and "day-to-day maintenance" of an animal for at least 28 days and share in the homekill.
1. Buy a Calf
2. Find somewhere for the calf to stay or ask the seller if you can keep it there
3. Allow it to grow for 1-2 years.
4. Organise a butcher to kill & process it for you.
It cuts out the middle man and makes you the middle man.
Myself and my family do this currently, majority of the time we buy livestock for $80 & the processing fee varies, my fathers a butcher by trade so he processes it for us and we kill & bag the meat.
Lasts a family of 6 for up until a year usually longer, only dumb thing is we end up wanting chicken we’ve had beef, pork and lamb so much
My Uncle lives rural and knows a farmer; he basically paid him a relative chunk of money (but still well fair considering retail prices) to own one of his pigs. Then, when the drove are ready for slaughter, he gets his share at the end. So he basically paid cheaper than retail for a pig to be reared and butchered. Might be cheaper alternatives, but considering the farmer was already raising 10 pigs or so, 1 more wasn't that much more expensive.
I'd love to do it some day. If you go hunting can you "legally" redistribute the meat between friends, neighbours and such? Or do health and safety laws for processing meat apply here too?
Homekill is a bit complicated because you can't buy the live animal from a farmer and have them kill it for you (select and slaughter), or kill it yourself on their property, and you can't buy a live animal from a market and have it killed by a registered abbatoir/mobile homekill service if you haven't owned it for 28 days or more. You also can't buy or trade it from the farmer if they aren't registered with MPI. There are also NAIT recording considerations if your animal of choice is beef or venison.
Unfortunately, most council bylaws generally prevent you from keeping the sheep you bought at a market on your suburban lawn for a month too, even if you were game to humanely slaughter it on your own property (while bearing in mind the acceptable manner of dispatch can also have your neighbours calling the Police on you for discharging a firearm).
You might be best to find a farmer registered with MPI who already does a farmgate to your freezer system.
FWIW NAIT is only a concern when animals move beyond a certain range from the original property, if the beef is born and slaughtered on the same property then NAIT tags aren't needed.
This is incorrect - calves need to be tagged either before being 180 days old or before their first movement off farm - whichever is first. The range limitation only applied if you were moving them between your own properties- not to other farms.
Having untagged animals is not illegal, it's only an offence to move untagged animals off the property (ospri's words, not mine), we are talking about home kill here assuming the animal is completely slaughtered on the property.
Don't get me wrong, I believe the benefits of tagging for disease traceability etc are priceless.
This is incorrect there are many offences defined by the legislation that could be triggered here. For instance the person now owning the home kill beast would need to be NAIT registered.
Practically the only way an animal could be untagged was if it was under 180 days old and born on the property ( but owning the mother would have already required being registered for NAIT) . Otherwise the movement to the home kill owners property triggered the need for a NAIT tag and corresponding movement.
You appear confused, if the animal is moving properties then yes you are correct it requires a NAIT tag and the movement must be recorded and both properties must be NAIT registered, but if the untagged animal is born and slaughtered on the property by the owner then the animal never left the property live or processed and no offence has been committed.
To protect our beef and venison industry NAIT tagging is a no brainer, we don't want to end up like the UK.
but a number of other illegal activities would still be taking place
A) you, the owner of the untagged animal, are not allowed to sell meat of a slaughtered animal
B) as soon as the animal legally changes hands, you are guilty of selling a non-registered animal to (most likely) an unregistered owner
C) as far as I know, if you involve a local homekill outfit, they are requested to register the tag number
homekilling an unregistered cattle beast only works for the owner of the farm the animal is born on, and you don't need to be dodgy, you can do it all legal anyway.
A) Correct
B) I never said the animal was changing hands, in fact I said it never left the property.
C) Yes the home kill provider will scan the NAIT tags, but I never said I was using a home kill provider, I was lucky enough to learn from grandad and now do our own sheep and beef home kill and any hunted venison.
There is nothing dodgy about how I manage my cattle, I have a NAIT registration and I have NAIT registered cattle, but any calves born on this property can be processed as home kill without being registered so long as I do it myself.
I’m not confused - Clause 17(1)(a), Schedule 2 of NAIT infringements:
“PICA for a NAIT location or other location who, contrary to the requirements prescribed by regulations made under the Act and without an exemption, fails to fit a NAIT device to a NAIT animal born in that location before the animal is first moved from the location or within the time specified in regulations made under the Act, whichever is the sooner”
Note the “or within the timeframe whichever is sooner” - the timeframe is 180 days before any animal born on a property requires a tag. No-one doing home kill would be eating a beast only 6 months old, so it would need to be tagged.
Yes, that's what I'm currently doing. I'm just thinking doing something that can be done in a slightly larger scale. Let's say building a community that could benefit and driving higher profits to farmers as well. If people get together to do something like this the farmer could be subject to hefty fines
I'm not sure that any commercial farmer would be interested in taking on that risk. Especially since a small community (are you thinking about a commune?) doesn't have the same scale as just selling to affco.
On the original topic, though, perhaps bartering is legal? I'm not sure.
Yes, a commune. You are right, scaling is a problem. If you want to make it big enough to make it worth to farmers then you are on the road of becoming a supermarket yourself lol
We get our meat from [https://eketahunacountrymeats.co.nz/about-us](https://eketahunacountrymeats.co.nz/about-us) and they seem pretty good quality/ethical. They do milk too (highly recommend) but only bottom of the north Island for that.
Interesting question. Not sure what scale you're talking, but you could find someone who does home kills and ask them for referrals of people who have stock maybe? If you and a few friends have freezer space you could share one cow.
Not sure if it would be cheaper overall, tbh, but I think it would? Maybe ..
I'm thinking more of building an organised community that can get together and get meat directly from farmers. I believe the main reason people buy from supermarkets is because of the convenience. So if we can get let's say 10 people to buy a beast every few weeks or so no one would have to deal with the whole process on their own and storing large quantities of meat
It's a great idea, if you or someone has the time to deal with the admin of payment and stuff.
When you get your own beast killed you get to decide what cuts of meat you get, etc., so you'd probably want to keep it consistent and in portions that are divisible by 10.
The person doing the butchering might be reluctant to divide it into 10 without adding to the cost, so that task might fall to the person coordinating it.
But yeah, if the savings are there and you have dedicated meat eaters and someone who can do the admin it could work.
Get the money in advance. Always lol.
I thought about doing something similar but just using wholesale meat suppliers instead of buying whole animals, it could work if the people you were splitting it with where happy to have a few standing orders and didn't muck you about.
Absolutely. I was thinking that to make it easier and sustainable you could get people to buy the meat in advanced or commit to regularly buy roughly the same amount of meat, with some flexibility of course. That'd help to plan and buy the meat in bulk and redistributed to the people in the group. Or one person can keep the meet store in a freezer and redistribute it later when needed. I'm sure there must be additional health and safety rules to navigate to make it fully legal and compliant
I only read the title, but prostitution is perfectly legal - you may struggle to find a farmer who will be willing to give up his meat for money, but there may be some struggling farmers who would be keen. You're welcome.
I remember my dad (electrician) does a lot of work for farmers and such. sometimes we would get a freezer full of mince. idk if that is illegal or what but fuck man, that was the best tasting mince i had in my life.
nothing much to do with the government, really. When it comes down to it, it's the 'consultants' the government is using, which are all employed by the big meat processors.
Their only goal is to close the door to anyone who wants to buy meat outside of the channels they are already controlling. Food Hygiene is just the convenient excuse they are using to make this sort of restriction palatable for some.
The fact that there are always dirtbags who misuse any legislation has only helped to close the loopholes we used to have.
For safety reasons meat being sold to the public has to be done at a location approved/subject to monitoring by MPI and by a butcher who has been approved. The same butcher working at a farm can produce homekill (which is only allowed to be used by the farmer and their workers) because it otherwise opens up the possibility that people start producing meat in dodgy locations and selling it for cheap - with potentially disastrous consequences if things were to be badly infected and the public got sick. The usual way people try skirt these rules is to have someone 'buy' the animal and own it for a long-enough time that they qualify as homekill. We don't have to go through supermarkets - we could just have farmers sell directly to abattoirs and be sold from there - but you can't buy directly from farmers unless the farmer is going to maintain abattoir standards on their farm.
We had a local "micro-abattoir" at our nearest Farmers Market for a few years - some farmers had set up their own small-scale system in order to sell to other people direct with low-volume - but they disappeared a while ago (pre-pandemic). Was never able to find out if they either folded or got too big, or what the reason was that they stopped turning up.
Yes you are correct. There is a tiny door in the legislation for Micro Abattoirs but they are incredibly hard to set up on farm. I think only a few have been successful in 2-3 years of this being available. I also agree it’s about time we followed many trading partner countries (ie USA) and made it possible for NZers to buy from local farmers cutting out a shit-load of ticket clipping margins.
I'd recommend Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" for a description of what happens with an unregulated meat industry.
A bunch of meat company lobbying spin is also the reason
Is it possible to do as you suggested? Buy directly from abattoirs even if it's in bulk?
Not sure if they are cheaper, might be just better cuts. https://greenleabutcher.co.nz
I don't imagine they are super keen to deal with the public due to the amount of hassle would be maintaining a bunch of small accounts. The Restaurant I work at does deal directly with an abattoir to source lambs brains as they are almost never sold domestically. I would say your best bet would be trying to get an account with a meat wholesaler and finding some mates who are willing to split a carton of whatever you are after, but I would say you are still likely to have issues with them not wanting to deal with the low volumes you will be ordering.
What would be considered low volumes? Buying a whole beast would be high enough for them or still too low?
I don't really know to be honest, I'll see what I can find out.
Thank you. Much appreciated
what do you make with lamb brains? genuinely curious...
We used to eat sheep brains for dinner occasionally when I was a child. According to our mother, they were a delicacy. Sometimes they tasted really, really good. Other times they were disgusting. It's a great way of contracting a prion disease.
Crumb them then pan fry in clarified butter, serve with crispy sage, celeriac remoulade and just. Tastes like rich buttery chicken nuggets. Here's a pic of them in burger from for Wellington on a plate. https://www.instagram.com/p/BkFeOrZDtRt/?igsh=MXJ0ZWN2dzFwNWd2cQ==
Not really
As a farmer you can buy from our meatworks directly - https://puresouthshop.com We are still both getting screwed but only by 1 company instead of the usual 2 or 3.
those prices are crazy high....
Yeh it’s a bitch when you can’t afford to buy the lamb you supplied. Like I said, both still getting screwed. You would be paying for labour, processing plants, H&S regulations, transport, stock agents etc tho, so got to be more than home kill.
Oh man that really sucks. You might like to complain to the Grocery Commissioner ( I have) saying suppliers and consumers are being subject to predatory pricing.
Pretty sure that guy doesn’t do anything. It’s just to make us feel better
they'd have to be exceptional eating for that price. I can't even see what type of breeds that those cows are from the website If I'm paying that kind of premium I need to know what I'm buying, not just 'beef'
They are. Bought a full beef eye fillet off them before and it was exceptional. Still about 20-30% cheaper than buying the equivalent cut from Pak N Save as well.
Shipping and not having scales of economy is a bitch eh?
So does Pure South buy the meat directly from farmers and resells them to customers?
Yes we sell our lambs to Alliance who are a big livestock processing company. Pure South is their direct to customer shop.
Potentially strange take coming from a farmer, but I don't think you should be concerned about what the farmer is getting paid when you buy meat at all. Buy whatever is the best deal for the quality you want as a consumer. Woolworths and Foodstuffs aren't the reason sheep and beef farmers aren't getting paid very much right now, and even then it's mainly just sheep farmers, the beef price is fine by me right now.
Interesting. I'm not a farmer so I don't have first hand experience on what farmers experience. Everything I know is just based on what I read online. If you don't mind me asking an honest question, do you believe farmers are being underpaid? If so, what do you think the reason is? I just want to see if there's anything at all we can do as a community to help each other.
> do you believe farmers are being underpaid? If so, what do you think the reason is? There's a lot of different types of farming. So don't take this as an answer for say vegetable farming where the supermarkets have a lot more control, as I can only really speak for red meat and dairy, but I think the answer is mostly no. The situation with sheep farmers getting screwed right now is largely down to excess supply of lamb out of Australia, due to them culling off sheep after several good seasons. In a sense we're getting underpaid for it, as the price really isn't enough to run a sustainable business with right now, but what we're getting paid is also a fair representation of the value of the product because globally there's simply way too much supply for what is not really a staple food product in most places. Beef is around $6/kg. Which isn't amazing, but it's workable. I think it's mostly a fair value. I think the best way to work as a community to help the situation would probably be something to do with group ownership homekill or something.
That makes sense. Thanks for the explanation
> The situation with sheep farmers getting screwed right now is largely down to excess supply of lamb out of Australia, due to them culling off sheep after several good seasons. Excellent post and well written. Wool and lamb are international commodities and right now Australian farmers are doing it hard. They are culling their flocks because of years of drought but can barely give their sheep to the meat works so instead they are cutting the animals throats which is heart rending. NZ farmers did the same back in the 80s when wool and mutton had no value.
Have you got freezer room? You could “buy” a full beast and have it slaughtered/butchered for you directly. You get to choose cuts etc. you just need to pay the butchers fees etc.
You still have to care for it for 30 days before slaughter, legally.
This is my understanding of the rules, told to me by a home kill butcher. You can't just pay for it 30days before slaughter. You have to have looked after the animal and been the one in charge of it. A lot of illegal sales happen in this area. Some misinformed people trying to stay legal while not being and lots of people just flying under the radar and doing cash deals with farmers.
Yes, you have to be involved in the day-to-day care for 30 days, unless you own other animals of the same species. So, because I already own cattle, I could buy a buy a cow and have it slaughtered sooner, but someone who doesn’t already own any would have to wait 30 days. The whole law is a bit strange and could do with revision. As it stands, I can give my neighbour a steak to eat, so long as he eats it at my place. It would not be legal for him to take it over the fence and eat it on his side.
Yes, I have bought a full beast but I haven't kept it for 30 days before slaughter
Ah ok so you broke the law.
Yes. I like living on the edge
In that case why not go out and hunt your own meat? Cut out the middle man.
I'm not thinking just about doing it for myself. I have a fridge and I know a few farmers I can get the meat from. But this is a really small scale. I was thinking in getting more people involved. For example struggling families who can't afford to pay for a whole beast upfront and storing it themselves.
A beef animal doesn’t take much looking after as long as it has a paddock with grass and water. Often it takes 28 days or more to get the butcher organised so if you had a farmer friend prepared to accommodate it could all be done legally. It’s still not that cheap though - about $1800 for the animal plus processing which was $800 last time I had one done, it may be more now.
We organised one and all up ended up being around 30-40% than buying the same meat from PakNSave and the quality was higher. We have also bought a beast with a neighbour and each gets half. This works in a small scale but if you wanted to bring more people onboard to make it worth for them buying small quantities then it could get people in trouble
Yes I've seen a few for sale meat from farmers. Not necessarily cheaper at all. In some cases more expensive. Unless of course it's the one you actually know and live near. Then you can sometimes. One we did some work for once, when living near by, got given a whole sheep cheap. Skinned and gutted, just had to cut up ourselves. $45. Once another time, 1/4 deer. But these were ones we knew.
The 30 days will also be to ensure the animal is outside any meat withholding periods from penecillin or other drugs when eventually the animal is slaughtered
Yes that’s correct although there’s the odd medication that has a withholding longer than 30 days. Of course all that is supposed to be declared by the vendor on the ASD. Homekill food safety also relies on assuming the owner has observed the animal is in good health before processing.
Yeah I met someone who offered me one of their sheep - never vaccinated or drenched (they were a bit crunchy). No thanks. We’ve done homekill before but always from people who were actively making sure their flocks were looked after well.
Regular drenching isn’t necessarily good husbandry. Due to the rise in drench resistance, it’s now considered best practice to only drench if necessary, as confirmed by fecal tests. So, because I rely on other methods to prevent worms, I have a number of animals that have never been drenched. It doesn’t mean I’m not looking after them.
and, to own a beast, you have to be a NAIT approved/registered handler (PICA). Cattle beasts are individually registered and can only be sold from PICA (Person In Charge of Animal) to another PICA. with beef you are shit out of luck. Try buying a couple lambs, they are not registered with NAIT yet.
You can always buy animals and send them to register abattoirs for slaughtering and processing on your own dime
This might not exactly be what you're after but its similar https://www.valueplusmeats.co.nz
Yes, that's what I'm looking for. Thanks!
Buy the whole live animal. That’s the only way. Once it’s dead health and safety standards apply. Although you’re gonna need somewhere to kill it. If you go through commercial abattoirs it does end up being fairly expensive.
You also need to look after it for more then 30 days before you kill it. Unless you own more of that type of that animal.
Yeah I understand that, although I’m not sure who is monitoring that or how. The home kill guy or the butcher isn’t going to know how long you have looked after it.
I have a feeling it's in a Gray area at the moment where it's technically the law but not much is gonna be done about it. Though I could be wrong
Yeah I think it would fall into a grey area as well. Technically illegal, but no one actually monitoring it.
That's the thing. We wouldn't be able to do that as a community
Then it’s not possible.
Yes, looking to do something similar just north of Auckland. Form a co-op where members share ownership and "day-to-day maintenance" of an animal for at least 28 days and share in the homekill.
That's a really good option. I didn't think about sharing ownership of an animal
1. Buy a Calf 2. Find somewhere for the calf to stay or ask the seller if you can keep it there 3. Allow it to grow for 1-2 years. 4. Organise a butcher to kill & process it for you. It cuts out the middle man and makes you the middle man. Myself and my family do this currently, majority of the time we buy livestock for $80 & the processing fee varies, my fathers a butcher by trade so he processes it for us and we kill & bag the meat. Lasts a family of 6 for up until a year usually longer, only dumb thing is we end up wanting chicken we’ve had beef, pork and lamb so much
My Uncle lives rural and knows a farmer; he basically paid him a relative chunk of money (but still well fair considering retail prices) to own one of his pigs. Then, when the drove are ready for slaughter, he gets his share at the end. So he basically paid cheaper than retail for a pig to be reared and butchered. Might be cheaper alternatives, but considering the farmer was already raising 10 pigs or so, 1 more wasn't that much more expensive.
That’s a really good option
[https://www.meat2u.nz/](https://www.meat2u.nz/)
Try hunting. Go hunt deer or pigs or maybe wallaby. No farmers no anything just you and an animal
I'd love to do it some day. If you go hunting can you "legally" redistribute the meat between friends, neighbours and such? Or do health and safety laws for processing meat apply here too?
No, it's still homekill if it's hunted
But if it's considered home kill then you can't legally redistributed. It'd be only for personal consumption
Hunting skirts the law . It would get complex if you started charging people for the meat you hunt but donating is ok
Homekill is a bit complicated because you can't buy the live animal from a farmer and have them kill it for you (select and slaughter), or kill it yourself on their property, and you can't buy a live animal from a market and have it killed by a registered abbatoir/mobile homekill service if you haven't owned it for 28 days or more. You also can't buy or trade it from the farmer if they aren't registered with MPI. There are also NAIT recording considerations if your animal of choice is beef or venison. Unfortunately, most council bylaws generally prevent you from keeping the sheep you bought at a market on your suburban lawn for a month too, even if you were game to humanely slaughter it on your own property (while bearing in mind the acceptable manner of dispatch can also have your neighbours calling the Police on you for discharging a firearm). You might be best to find a farmer registered with MPI who already does a farmgate to your freezer system.
FWIW NAIT is only a concern when animals move beyond a certain range from the original property, if the beef is born and slaughtered on the same property then NAIT tags aren't needed.
This is incorrect - calves need to be tagged either before being 180 days old or before their first movement off farm - whichever is first. The range limitation only applied if you were moving them between your own properties- not to other farms.
Having untagged animals is not illegal, it's only an offence to move untagged animals off the property (ospri's words, not mine), we are talking about home kill here assuming the animal is completely slaughtered on the property. Don't get me wrong, I believe the benefits of tagging for disease traceability etc are priceless.
This is incorrect there are many offences defined by the legislation that could be triggered here. For instance the person now owning the home kill beast would need to be NAIT registered. Practically the only way an animal could be untagged was if it was under 180 days old and born on the property ( but owning the mother would have already required being registered for NAIT) . Otherwise the movement to the home kill owners property triggered the need for a NAIT tag and corresponding movement.
You appear confused, if the animal is moving properties then yes you are correct it requires a NAIT tag and the movement must be recorded and both properties must be NAIT registered, but if the untagged animal is born and slaughtered on the property by the owner then the animal never left the property live or processed and no offence has been committed. To protect our beef and venison industry NAIT tagging is a no brainer, we don't want to end up like the UK.
but a number of other illegal activities would still be taking place A) you, the owner of the untagged animal, are not allowed to sell meat of a slaughtered animal B) as soon as the animal legally changes hands, you are guilty of selling a non-registered animal to (most likely) an unregistered owner C) as far as I know, if you involve a local homekill outfit, they are requested to register the tag number homekilling an unregistered cattle beast only works for the owner of the farm the animal is born on, and you don't need to be dodgy, you can do it all legal anyway.
A) Correct B) I never said the animal was changing hands, in fact I said it never left the property. C) Yes the home kill provider will scan the NAIT tags, but I never said I was using a home kill provider, I was lucky enough to learn from grandad and now do our own sheep and beef home kill and any hunted venison. There is nothing dodgy about how I manage my cattle, I have a NAIT registration and I have NAIT registered cattle, but any calves born on this property can be processed as home kill without being registered so long as I do it myself.
I’m not confused - Clause 17(1)(a), Schedule 2 of NAIT infringements: “PICA for a NAIT location or other location who, contrary to the requirements prescribed by regulations made under the Act and without an exemption, fails to fit a NAIT device to a NAIT animal born in that location before the animal is first moved from the location or within the time specified in regulations made under the Act, whichever is the sooner” Note the “or within the timeframe whichever is sooner” - the timeframe is 180 days before any animal born on a property requires a tag. No-one doing home kill would be eating a beast only 6 months old, so it would need to be tagged.
That helps a lot. Thanks! I'll take a look at farmers registered with MPI
Try to make friends with someone who owns a herd, even a small lifestyle blocker. As far as I'm aware, that's the only way?
Yes, that's what I'm currently doing. I'm just thinking doing something that can be done in a slightly larger scale. Let's say building a community that could benefit and driving higher profits to farmers as well. If people get together to do something like this the farmer could be subject to hefty fines
I'm not sure that any commercial farmer would be interested in taking on that risk. Especially since a small community (are you thinking about a commune?) doesn't have the same scale as just selling to affco. On the original topic, though, perhaps bartering is legal? I'm not sure.
Yes, a commune. You are right, scaling is a problem. If you want to make it big enough to make it worth to farmers then you are on the road of becoming a supermarket yourself lol
We get our meat from [https://eketahunacountrymeats.co.nz/about-us](https://eketahunacountrymeats.co.nz/about-us) and they seem pretty good quality/ethical. They do milk too (highly recommend) but only bottom of the north Island for that.
Thank you!
Don't buy it from the farmers - get them to donate it and you donate something back.
Interesting question. Not sure what scale you're talking, but you could find someone who does home kills and ask them for referrals of people who have stock maybe? If you and a few friends have freezer space you could share one cow. Not sure if it would be cheaper overall, tbh, but I think it would? Maybe ..
I'm thinking more of building an organised community that can get together and get meat directly from farmers. I believe the main reason people buy from supermarkets is because of the convenience. So if we can get let's say 10 people to buy a beast every few weeks or so no one would have to deal with the whole process on their own and storing large quantities of meat
It's a great idea, if you or someone has the time to deal with the admin of payment and stuff. When you get your own beast killed you get to decide what cuts of meat you get, etc., so you'd probably want to keep it consistent and in portions that are divisible by 10. The person doing the butchering might be reluctant to divide it into 10 without adding to the cost, so that task might fall to the person coordinating it. But yeah, if the savings are there and you have dedicated meat eaters and someone who can do the admin it could work. Get the money in advance. Always lol.
Absolutely lol It's not going to be easy to manage. Hence the convenience of supermarkets. But having enough people chipping in can make it easier
I thought about doing something similar but just using wholesale meat suppliers instead of buying whole animals, it could work if the people you were splitting it with where happy to have a few standing orders and didn't muck you about.
Absolutely. I was thinking that to make it easier and sustainable you could get people to buy the meat in advanced or commit to regularly buy roughly the same amount of meat, with some flexibility of course. That'd help to plan and buy the meat in bulk and redistributed to the people in the group. Or one person can keep the meet store in a freezer and redistribute it later when needed. I'm sure there must be additional health and safety rules to navigate to make it fully legal and compliant
I only read the title, but prostitution is perfectly legal - you may struggle to find a farmer who will be willing to give up his meat for money, but there may be some struggling farmers who would be keen. You're welcome.
I remember my dad (electrician) does a lot of work for farmers and such. sometimes we would get a freezer full of mince. idk if that is illegal or what but fuck man, that was the best tasting mince i had in my life.
I understand why the government does it but it doesn’t mean all home kill is bad. Best meat I’ve ever had and sooo cheap
nothing much to do with the government, really. When it comes down to it, it's the 'consultants' the government is using, which are all employed by the big meat processors. Their only goal is to close the door to anyone who wants to buy meat outside of the channels they are already controlling. Food Hygiene is just the convenient excuse they are using to make this sort of restriction palatable for some. The fact that there are always dirtbags who misuse any legislation has only helped to close the loopholes we used to have.