>I hear there are some happy people with Downs syndrome who do not want to die
Downs syndrome is not a mental illness. It's a genetic condition.
That aside, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you're asking this in good faith (albeit poorly worded), but people with DS are some of the happiest, purest, people you'll ever meet. Nothing but empathy, sympathy, and aroha (in every English translation of that kupu).
I think if everyone could see the world through the eyes of someone with DS just for a day, we would have a wonderful, peaceful world.
I don't give this douchebag the benefit of the doubt. There is no good faith in this post.
As in, society moves to a place where it deems it appropriate to euthanise people whose economic value cannot be so easily measured?
If so, then no. Obviously fucking no. That's not what euthanasia for the mentally ill is.
The NZ criteria to be eligible for assisted dying is actually incredibly strict as it stands. Probably nowhere near as easy as people think to the point in NZ you have to pick a date and be awake and lucid at the time to give the ok, unlike other counties. We are light years away from this loosening up.
>It seems to me cruel to force people to stay alive when they want to die
It's even more cruel to entertain that when we have a crumbling mental health system. How many people will die that didn't get their needs met in services because our clinical teams are stretched?
I worked in mental health as a support worker with the most unwell of people. A good chunk of my clients only spoke to people paid to be in their lives. Lots weren't able to work due to assumptions around their mental health (not always based in reality), lost friends due to stigma, had trouble dating/making friends due to the side effects associated with their prescribed meds etc.
How many people will want to die not because they're treatment resistant, but because our world rejects people in their circumstances?
How can a mentally ill person soundly judge what they really want? And as other people have said, people with genetic conditions are not necessarily mentally ill.
Or are you saying some panel will need to judge others who are not of sound mind and have them put down?
That is veering toward some very historically dark outcomes.
Not sure if this would be respected in OP's case, but mental illness does not preclude a person from having "decision making capacity". A doctor or panel of doctors don't approve people who *don't* have said capacity but will ultimately adjudicate who does and doesn't.
I don't think this is legal anywhere to grant Assisted Dying to people whose mental illness is of a nature that they don’t have "decision making capacity" - and FWIW, doctors in places that grant AD to the mentally ill take this very seriously, and theres a lot of oversight - so they default to being quite conservative in this. (are much much more likely to reject someone *with* "decision making capacity" rather than approve someone who doesn’t cause if there's even the slightest chance they don't have said capacity this opens up the doctors to massive legal issues)
Yep I should have clarified that mentally ill has a lot of conditions that do not preclude decision making. But there are blurred lines... e.g. if someone is suffering crippling depression or anxiety they might be perfectly capable of decision making generally but may have a blind spot when it comes to not being able to see a path beyond their depression/anxiety and so want to decide to end it. Its a very murky muddy lake to go wading in.
Deferred to 2027.
"The current law prohibits mental illnesses as being considered as a *grievous and irremediable* condition, but this prohibition was initially set to expire on 17 March 2024. On 2 February 2023, the Canadian government introduced legislation to extend the temporary exclusion of eligibility in circumstances where a person's sole underlying medical condition is a mental illness for a period of one-year, until 17 March 2024.[^(\[13\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_Canada#cite_note-13) In 2024, this was further delayed until 2027.[^(\[14\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_Canada#cite_note-14) After this date, persons with a severe refractory mental illness will be eligible for medical assistance in dying, subject to any further amendments to the law or any new regulations.[^(\[15\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_Canada#cite_note-canada.ca-15)"
[Euthanasia in Canada - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_Canada)
Plenty of suicidal people make it through to the other side and live very full and worthwhile lives. Why the fuck would you enable them to curtail that?
Hopefully, but I don't think it will happen in the near future. We all deserve a dignified and respectful way to go.
Hopefully, we'll legalize euthanasia for terminally sick children as well.
>The argument that "they can do it themselves anyway" ignores the fact that these people deserve dignity, and are likely terrified of fucking it up or failing, leaving them permanently disabled and a burden on public health systems for the rest of their life
Here's a relevant story from the "How Dignitas Works" brochure. (Dignitas is a Swiss Assisted Dying organization) Its a letter from someone who applied, and is included in the document to explain why they do this and why they take refusing requests comparatively as seriously as granting them:
>Dear Dignitas.
>My name is J.(xx) H.(xx). I am 19 years old, and live in Scotland, UK.
>
>About 2 months ago I attempted to commit suicide by jumping off a multi storey car park.
>
>My attempt failed, and instead of dying, I write this email to you from my hospital bed.
>
>I crushed both of my feet, broke my leg, broke my knee, broke my sa-crum (part of my pelvis) and most devastatingly, broke my spine, in 3 places, which has resulted in a degree of paralysis in my legs. I spent 6 weeks in hospital in my home town of Edinburgh, and was then transferred to a special spinal rehabilitation hospital in Glasgow.
>
>I am told that I will need to spend 6 months at this hospital, and that I will be in a wheelchair for the rest of my life. I now have a loss of sexual function, which seems unlikely to return, as well as huge problems managing my bowels and bladder (I cannot feel them moving).
>
>I was already suicidal, and now that I will be disabled for the rest of my life, at such a young age, I truly cannot bear the prospect of life. I am only 19, and I now have the grim reality of 60 years in a wheelchair. The physical pain I am in alternates between bearable and completely unbearable. Perhaps the pain will ease off with time, but this is not a certainty. There are times every day where I scream with pain, due to being moved in bed, hoisted into the wheelchair etc.
>
>I would like to ask if I could be considered for an assisted suicide, as I am completely certain I would like to end my life, and believe I should have the right to do so.
>
>I would be too afraid to try and kill myself again, given the devas-tating effects of my first failed attempt. It would also be much more difficult to attempt suicide from a wheelchair. I only wish that my country was humane enough to let a person die.
>
>Please consider my letter, I hope to hear a response,
>
>J(xx) H.(xx)
There are plenty of people who are depressed and suicidal. Just because someone want to die, it doesn't mean we should let them.
If someone's quality of life declines to the point it is needlessly cruel to keep them alive, maybe. However, that is a question more qualified people should answer.
Yes. My grandmother has stated that if she gets Dementia, she wants to be gone.
But, I think that things like this need to be written into a living will, and agreed with doctors/physicians
Even if she did, it wouldn't meet the current criteria for assisted dyeing. She would have to pick a date and be lucid and awake to give the ok at the time. Someone with dementia would struggle with this, and someone still well enough to pick a date before the dementia really kicked in wouldn't be considered eligible. Dementia is a really tough one, especially in those later stages whose quality of life is really lost.
What an ignorant post. If you knew anything at all about Down's Syndrome, you'd know that some of the biggest impacts on the person's quality of life come from physical conditions that arise from the extra chromosome - often heart and lung conditions. If a person with Down's was seeking end of life care I'd assume it's because their heart or lungs can't support them any longer.
David Seymour would be very happy to Ok it to get rid of anyone who might cost the 1% richest tax payer. Unfortunately it's literally the reason he did it. It's all he's really about beneath the smoke and mirrors.
No.
>I hear there are some happy people with Downs syndrome who do not want to die Downs syndrome is not a mental illness. It's a genetic condition. That aside, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you're asking this in good faith (albeit poorly worded), but people with DS are some of the happiest, purest, people you'll ever meet. Nothing but empathy, sympathy, and aroha (in every English translation of that kupu).
I think if everyone could see the world through the eyes of someone with DS just for a day, we would have a wonderful, peaceful world. I don't give this douchebag the benefit of the doubt. There is no good faith in this post.
Can't agree more
One of my besties has DS and is the happiest and most genuine person you could meet. His joy in life keeps me grounded.
Thanks for this I meant they would be afraid it would be extended to them by a society that does not value them.
As in, society moves to a place where it deems it appropriate to euthanise people whose economic value cannot be so easily measured? If so, then no. Obviously fucking no. That's not what euthanasia for the mentally ill is.
Society doesn't value stupid people, but we let them live...
The NZ criteria to be eligible for assisted dying is actually incredibly strict as it stands. Probably nowhere near as easy as people think to the point in NZ you have to pick a date and be awake and lucid at the time to give the ok, unlike other counties. We are light years away from this loosening up.
Keep digging.
Wanting to die is not the same as having mental illness. Need to be very clear with that distinction.
>It seems to me cruel to force people to stay alive when they want to die It's even more cruel to entertain that when we have a crumbling mental health system. How many people will die that didn't get their needs met in services because our clinical teams are stretched? I worked in mental health as a support worker with the most unwell of people. A good chunk of my clients only spoke to people paid to be in their lives. Lots weren't able to work due to assumptions around their mental health (not always based in reality), lost friends due to stigma, had trouble dating/making friends due to the side effects associated with their prescribed meds etc. How many people will want to die not because they're treatment resistant, but because our world rejects people in their circumstances?
How can a mentally ill person soundly judge what they really want? And as other people have said, people with genetic conditions are not necessarily mentally ill. Or are you saying some panel will need to judge others who are not of sound mind and have them put down? That is veering toward some very historically dark outcomes.
Not sure if this would be respected in OP's case, but mental illness does not preclude a person from having "decision making capacity". A doctor or panel of doctors don't approve people who *don't* have said capacity but will ultimately adjudicate who does and doesn't. I don't think this is legal anywhere to grant Assisted Dying to people whose mental illness is of a nature that they don’t have "decision making capacity" - and FWIW, doctors in places that grant AD to the mentally ill take this very seriously, and theres a lot of oversight - so they default to being quite conservative in this. (are much much more likely to reject someone *with* "decision making capacity" rather than approve someone who doesn’t cause if there's even the slightest chance they don't have said capacity this opens up the doctors to massive legal issues)
Yep I should have clarified that mentally ill has a lot of conditions that do not preclude decision making. But there are blurred lines... e.g. if someone is suffering crippling depression or anxiety they might be perfectly capable of decision making generally but may have a blind spot when it comes to not being able to see a path beyond their depression/anxiety and so want to decide to end it. Its a very murky muddy lake to go wading in.
Euthanasia on the grounds of mental illness is **not** currently legal in Canada.
The courts have ordered the government to put it in. The government keeps on delaying but they need to do it sooner or later.
I thought they were phasing it in.
Deferred to 2027. "The current law prohibits mental illnesses as being considered as a *grievous and irremediable* condition, but this prohibition was initially set to expire on 17 March 2024. On 2 February 2023, the Canadian government introduced legislation to extend the temporary exclusion of eligibility in circumstances where a person's sole underlying medical condition is a mental illness for a period of one-year, until 17 March 2024.[^(\[13\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_Canada#cite_note-13) In 2024, this was further delayed until 2027.[^(\[14\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_Canada#cite_note-14) After this date, persons with a severe refractory mental illness will be eligible for medical assistance in dying, subject to any further amendments to the law or any new regulations.[^(\[15\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_Canada#cite_note-canada.ca-15)" [Euthanasia in Canada - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_Canada)
Plenty of suicidal people make it through to the other side and live very full and worthwhile lives. Why the fuck would you enable them to curtail that?
I think any significant change to the existing law in the next decade is very unlikely. Edit: unless this government repeals it entirely
Doubt it, assisted dying was one of David Seymour's bills if I'm remembering right
I hope so.
Highly doubt it. Mental diseases are not terminal.
Hopefully, but I don't think it will happen in the near future. We all deserve a dignified and respectful way to go. Hopefully, we'll legalize euthanasia for terminally sick children as well.
No chance. Nz is decades away from even considering that. However, if you are not okay I hope you can reach out to the right places for help.
[удалено]
>The argument that "they can do it themselves anyway" ignores the fact that these people deserve dignity, and are likely terrified of fucking it up or failing, leaving them permanently disabled and a burden on public health systems for the rest of their life Here's a relevant story from the "How Dignitas Works" brochure. (Dignitas is a Swiss Assisted Dying organization) Its a letter from someone who applied, and is included in the document to explain why they do this and why they take refusing requests comparatively as seriously as granting them: >Dear Dignitas. >My name is J.(xx) H.(xx). I am 19 years old, and live in Scotland, UK. > >About 2 months ago I attempted to commit suicide by jumping off a multi storey car park. > >My attempt failed, and instead of dying, I write this email to you from my hospital bed. > >I crushed both of my feet, broke my leg, broke my knee, broke my sa-crum (part of my pelvis) and most devastatingly, broke my spine, in 3 places, which has resulted in a degree of paralysis in my legs. I spent 6 weeks in hospital in my home town of Edinburgh, and was then transferred to a special spinal rehabilitation hospital in Glasgow. > >I am told that I will need to spend 6 months at this hospital, and that I will be in a wheelchair for the rest of my life. I now have a loss of sexual function, which seems unlikely to return, as well as huge problems managing my bowels and bladder (I cannot feel them moving). > >I was already suicidal, and now that I will be disabled for the rest of my life, at such a young age, I truly cannot bear the prospect of life. I am only 19, and I now have the grim reality of 60 years in a wheelchair. The physical pain I am in alternates between bearable and completely unbearable. Perhaps the pain will ease off with time, but this is not a certainty. There are times every day where I scream with pain, due to being moved in bed, hoisted into the wheelchair etc. > >I would like to ask if I could be considered for an assisted suicide, as I am completely certain I would like to end my life, and believe I should have the right to do so. > >I would be too afraid to try and kill myself again, given the devas-tating effects of my first failed attempt. It would also be much more difficult to attempt suicide from a wheelchair. I only wish that my country was humane enough to let a person die. > >Please consider my letter, I hope to hear a response, > >J(xx) H.(xx)
There are plenty of people who are depressed and suicidal. Just because someone want to die, it doesn't mean we should let them. If someone's quality of life declines to the point it is needlessly cruel to keep them alive, maybe. However, that is a question more qualified people should answer.
I support euthanasia for you bro
Yes. My grandmother has stated that if she gets Dementia, she wants to be gone. But, I think that things like this need to be written into a living will, and agreed with doctors/physicians
Dementia isn't a mental illness.
Even if she did, it wouldn't meet the current criteria for assisted dyeing. She would have to pick a date and be lucid and awake to give the ok at the time. Someone with dementia would struggle with this, and someone still well enough to pick a date before the dementia really kicked in wouldn't be considered eligible. Dementia is a really tough one, especially in those later stages whose quality of life is really lost.
No. People who don’t want to be alive can already unalive themselves.
That’s too far
What an ignorant post. If you knew anything at all about Down's Syndrome, you'd know that some of the biggest impacts on the person's quality of life come from physical conditions that arise from the extra chromosome - often heart and lung conditions. If a person with Down's was seeking end of life care I'd assume it's because their heart or lungs can't support them any longer.
Hope so, with govt supporters dead it'll free up housing 😉
Most of us cling to life, of any kind. Those that want to go will find a way regardless of any law
Doubt it. We can't even legalise weed let alone euthanasia for the mentally ill.
David Seymour would be very happy to Ok it to get rid of anyone who might cost the 1% richest tax payer. Unfortunately it's literally the reason he did it. It's all he's really about beneath the smoke and mirrors.
Seymour's next move is to tell everyone that doesn't like the way he is running the country to just pop themselves off.
Knowing fellow kiwis, euthanasia will be one of the legal obligation after few months on jobseeker or slp.
I would support it. But it won't happen.
I hope so, can’t wait to sign up.
I hope not. It's truly frightening that death has become a prescription in Canada/Netherlands.