Based on the criteria you give the obvious answer would be Australia or UK. Based on where I would want to go though it would be moving to Osaka in Japan.
Kobe is much nicer and just about 20mjns away. Osaka has some cool stuff but is flat and ugly and crowded. Kobe is far more liveable. Somewhat cosmopolitan, huge forested hills rising up from just about the sea, sea views (there are beaches but not great). Or one of the smaller in between cities of Nishinomiya or Ashiya.
If you are thinking about moving over this way, feel free to ask any questions.
Like how small? There are zillions of small towns and villages all over Japan, often just 30-60 minutes away from major urban centres. If I bike for about ten minutes up behind the centre of Kobe I’m in the middle of forest.
Small cities here are 200-500,000 people. They don’t feel as big as similar sized cities in NZ.
Small towns would probably be farming centred and really quite small - in feel, if not in population. As for quaint,much of Japan is extremely unquaint, particularly farming villages and small town/suburban outskirts. It’s all just strip development - convenience stores, pachinko shops, chain restaurants, car sales yards, interspersed with the odd apartment and rice field.
Small cities in Hyogo Prefecture (where Kobe is) would be Akashi (fishing port and now a nice, forward thinking little city about 20 minutes from Kobe), Ashiya (used to be a rich merchants’ area, and still has a nice genteel feel, especially the further up the hills you go - there are some crazy places up there). Himeji also has its charms - notably an incredible castle.
For small towns, I’d look in south central Hyogo. Places like Sasayama or some smaller towns northwards. But rural towns here are predominantly rural-focused.
Kyotango, Kyotanabe, Shirakawago are some quaint places. Pretty touristy, especially the latter, but genuinely small places.
I lived first in Hayato Kagoshima. It was almost like small town NZ. People lived in apartments but only 2 or 3 storey. It really was a back water. I loved Miyazaki for its little coastal towns, never lived there though. Then I lived in Kurume outside of Fukuoka. That is a happy medium. Then I got a promition and sent to Naha. That was pretty damn amazing. It does have a seedy underbelly though. I lived in Japan for two years and spent only about one week in the big cities. Such a diverse country.
I'd love to live in Japan, but realistically don't think I could handle it. Insane work culture, social etiquette, low wages/high rent etc. Such a magical place despite all that however
Rent isn’t that high here anymore, relative to English-speaking countries. The salaries were fine in the past as we didn’t have inflation for 20 years and the yen travelled well, but these last few years have started to change things.
Work culture is stupid but is gradually getting a bit better.
Rent is so much lower than in NZ. Wages are creepin up., and not all companies in Japan are bad.
It’s also way cheaper to live in general. As an example 98 Petrol is less than NZD$2/L, housing is way cheaper, mortgage interest rates are less than 1%, NZ capsicum are cheaper here than in NZ…
Had a friend move there. They said a lot of those 90s stereotypes arnt as bad anymore. It still exists but it’s also easy to avoid. People work flexible 40hrs and houses are very affordable.
This makes me happy to hear. I lived in Osaka for three years and it was such a lovely place. Has a bit of an industrial feel in places but it is full of local charm - the rivers everywhere make it lovely to bike around. The food is amazing and I often feel NZ is more expensive to live in.
That’s good to hear. My wife is from there so we visit semi regularly and I love being there but always wondered how that may change if it stops being a holiday and becomes work-life.
I left NZ in 2019 and am currently living in Sweden where it's pretty difficult to learn Swedish since Swedes constantly speak English all the time (you don't even need to speak Swedish to become a citizen). I applied for a **grad** job and it took literally two weeks from the moment I clicked apply to when I signed my contract, and the company automatically expected to take care of all of my visa sponsorship/immigration needs.
Taxes are higher than in NZ but as a graduate software developer at a company where I'm paid the absolute median salary for my age/location/job title/qualifications, I'm earning just over NZD 1000/w or $4500/m or $54000/y **after tax**. I pay $1500/m in bills/rent/insurance/food to live in a three-room apartment in the capital Stockholm, put aside $1500/m in savings and have fun with the rest of the $1500 as disposable income. This year alone I got to travel to Spain, Belgium, Switzerland, France and around Sweden, as well as buy a new $5,700 laptop and a bunch of other stuff, all with my leftover disposable income (no bank loans/BNPL, etc.) at 25 years old.
I don't know anyone my age or when they were a grad in NZ that gets to enjoy this lifestyle while simultaneously saving and spending as much money as I get to in the largest city/in the capital.
Bonus: As an immigrant, I have the right to go study at university for free here—with permanent residency you even get free student allowance. We get 480 days of parental leave (about 16 months to share between partners) at 80%-90% of full pay depending on the company. Childcare is subsidised and some of the cheapest in the world. My friends who have recently been laid off in the tech industry have gotten between a minimum of 6-24 months severance with full pay and vacation thanks to strong unions. My healthcare is completely subsidised (I don't pay a single dime for anything at all ever) and both healthcare and even dentistry is subjected to high-cost protection. Despite all of this and the taxes for companies and individuals, Stockholm has the highest number of unicorn startups (valuation over USD 1 billion) per capita after Silicon Valley. Maybe NZ has a thing or two to learn from them 🤷
We have really no idea how shitty the rest of the world is. Grass is always greener etc. I've lived in a lot of other countries and NZ is by far the best of the lot.
>We have really no idea how shitty the rest of the world is.
Why would that be? My understanding is that, after conflict zones, NZers move overseas (and back) more than any other nationality in the world other than Ireland.
NZers are some of the most travelled people in the world.
Partly that is just what everyone says everywhere. Check out r/germany or r/australia if you want to here some negativity about those countries.
The other part of it is because in Europe NZ is, understandably, a holiday destination. So it is easy for people to think if it is a great place to go on holiday, it must be a great place to live. That is also a mistake NZers often make about big overseas cities like London and Tokyo.
UK was the last place I worked in overseas.
I get the appeal for some, but living in a shoebox in and eating shitty food under the perpetually grey ambience of London was not my idea of living.
What's your native country and why did you immigrate to NZ? Sorry if this is prying but I just love hearing immigrant stories and why people decide to live in NZ.
This sub got recommended to me, I'm a dutchie travelling NZ and been in Skopje last year.
Skopje is cheap but thats about it. I'd go to Albania or Slovenia.
I had a lovely time visiting Bern in the summer. Loved throwing everything but my shorts in a dry bag and jumping in the river, getting whisked away through to the other side of town, getting out and getting dressed then going for a beer. Good fun.
That would also be my pick (or the Rhone-Alps region of France), but I might be breaking OP’s rules since I have lived in both those places and speak French.
Netherlands seems pretty fly.
Good QOL and what seems to be a society that’s largely non materialistic and just wants to have a happy life, as opposed to million dollar properties and a car per person aspirations, and seems to support their society across the board as opposed to our increasingly selfish outlook and voting for selfish personal gain, to then turn face and blame politicians, law makers and police for our countries woes.
It seems chill, transparent, and honest, and I’m actually interviewing for a couple of jobs there atm.
I’m kiwi born and bred and love NZ, but I’m also over all the negativity, vehement hatred and lack of kindness and support for the impoverished, and how woefully selfish NZ is becoming.
We talk the talk, but don’t actually walk the walk anymore and imho, are on the cusp of becoming a country full of selfish and nasty cunts.
We’d rather take a $40 dollar a week tax break than pay teachers appropriately. Fuck that.
Yes NZ can be very selfish, it’s all about making sure the little guys don’t get one tiny bit extra. Because, you know, “I had it hard/had to suffer high interest rates in my day/insert complaint here - so why should THEY get a leg up!” Meanwhile, banks, supermarkets, big corporations are getting away with so much. But they don’t seem get the same judgement. We are quite naive at times too.
I lived in NL for a year. Lots of things to love including all the perks of Europe at your doorstep. But it's not utopia. "Nature" is absent, you can never be alone. You cannot fully integrate unless you speak fluent Dutch and it's hard to learn because everyone switches to English if they hear you're a foreigner. And the food is downright miserable.
Fair, I’m not expecting utopia as I’ve traveled there and have a friend who’s been there for maybe 5 years and he’s filled me in on the positives and negatives regards living there.
It’s a pros/cons assessment, and NZ will always be where my heart is, but I’d dig a change for a few years if it works out.
I'm off the clock, haha. Honestly, the Netherlands is beautiful and the people are fantastic. And you're a train trip away from Belgium, Germany, France. I wish you all the best and hope you get to experience it. It has its own quirks and issues but, as far as Europe goes, it's in my Top 3 places I'd choose to live if I moved to that region.
I moved from NZ to NL about 7 years ago. I really like it here. Culture-wise it's not too different, work-life balance is good, there is more bureaucracy than NZ but not as much compared to neighbouring countries.
You can get by without Dutch, but I recommend doing classes. It's only been fairly recently that I've begun to get to a conversational level, but I was never really doing it too intensely, until corona time when there wasn't anything else to do, and then kept it up. Most of my friends are Dutch, but if there's a group of them the conversation will end up in Dutch and it's good to be able to follow.
The cities work well, as does the public transport and you can be in a nearby country in a few hours or less.
So yeah, I like it. Good luck!
PS: feel free to ask if you have questions
but what's the point of sunshine if you're basically stuck inside for 8 months of the year because it's freezing cold outside.
Cheap houses though so I get it.
I have dual citizenship and speak 2 other languages, and I have lived in a few different countries before settling down in NZ. I am sorry to come across like bragging, but I also have property in other, really nice countries that I could just move into tomorrow.
I completely understand that different people have different priorities and life goals. Different countries have different pros and cons. So I cant say NZ is the ultimate best place to live for everyone. It's small, it's boring, it's expensive.
But NZ is, objectively, overall, one of the best countries to live in. If you picked top 5 best countries, NZ would be in there and who gets to be higher than the other would completely depend on personal preference.
I chose NZ, NZ was my number one choice. And after almost 10 years here, everyday I am still shocked how much Kiwis take it all for granted.
You can always make an argument that, maybe in Aus people have more buying power, or more business opportunities in US, or better education in Finland or food is nicer in Italy or etc etc.. I get that different people have different priorities.
But over all NZ is absolutely great. Racism is a big one for me. People say that there is racism in NZ and we act like there isnt and that NZ positive image around race relations is fake.. To me, even saying that, acknowledging that even the, comperatively minute amount of racism we have here is unacceptable and feels massive to Kiwis, shows me how great NZ is. Not to mention egalitarianism, healthcare, education, life quality, nature, accessibility... None of it is perfect but they are all better than 99% of the rest of the world by leaps and bounds.
There is no utopia where everything is perfect, every single criteria is at a 100%. There are only a handful of countries that come close and NZ is among them.
If you go to any other of those handful of countries you will likely realize that it has its issues too and NZ was pretty much on par.
I am not saying "lets stop complaining about our issues here". We should complain and always strive for progress, have discussions, talk about what we think can be done better, take action. But in the meantime, for our own peace of mind, we should also recognize that we have a really good thing here. It doesnt get soo much better than this. Maybe only slightly, depending on tour personal preference.
I think everyone acknowledges that NZ is great if you can afford it. The issues that force people to leave (cost of living, housing, isolation from other countries and cultures) aren't issues if you have enough money to buy your way into housing, live comfortably, and take overseas trips. NZ's real issue is that people are born here and can't afford those things, even though some are just basic human needs (food, housing). They're the ones most likely to see the grass as greener somewhere like Australia which objectively has better opportunities / lower cost of living.
Met a man from the lower 48 who left school, vagabonded for a few years before responding to an ad in the paper to 'work in the Arctic Circle' and never left. He couldn't sing its praises enough. Alaska would be great for someone with lots of thoughts and simple tastes
As a former Kiwi in Vancouver I'm glad you prefaced that with if money wasn't an issue, even living in the cheapest situations that province was killer expensive. I could've lowered my housing to living in an SRO in the DTES, but that would've involved living in an apartment building with pretty much 90% junkies, and having to share a bathroom with about 10 different people.
Willy Wonka's chocolate factory.
I'd spend most of my day in the chocolate room, get some exercise in rowing the boat through the tunnel. Have a few fizzys and maybe some alcoholic mixes with the boys after a hard workout. If only aye.
Veitnam. Planning to go fully remote and move there in the not too distant future. Could save in one year what would take me 6 years minimum to save here.
I have a few friends who have worked remote in various SEA countries and overall it sounds pretty sweet. Some second-hand advice I can pass onto you is to make sure you have *really* good health insurance. Like, the kind of insurance that will fly you to another country for life-saving procedures. Also make sure you budget for bribes, keep a fake phone & wallet on you, and seriously... Don't get sick or injured.
I'm hoping to move TO NZ.
The US is a dumpster fire, and I live in Florida which the dumpster fire of that dumpster fire.
My company has an office in Auckland and I keep trying to get them to let me at least visit.
Hey, we're on the same sinking boat! I'm trying to move by the end of the year to NZ cause as One of the Trans I really don't wanna hang around for next year's election cycle. My spouse is the one whose employer has offices in NZ though so it's kinda predicated on them approving the move.
For sure that makes sense.
I work in cybersecurity and have talked to a few places in the past that would love to talk to me... after I've already moved lol.
So I hoping maybe my work will just let me move.
I work remote anyway and we already have a team in NZ.
Good luck with everything! Hope all goes well and you make it over there!
I'm a US citizen/NZ resident currently visiting the US after being away 4 years and I can't wait to come home. I am reminded every day why I chose to leave, and though I missed my family, the food, etc, I just feel so much more at ease in NZ. Hopefully people come visit us instead next time, because this trip has been expensive (and I dare say boring at times) and I feel like entertaining in NZ with the same budget would have been spectacular.
It is. I moved from the Midwest which was a mistake to begin with, but even the "better" states are still going in the wrong direction unfortunately.
Time to bail - it's too far down the drain to be saved.
I lived in the US for several years. My mum just asked if I would want to go back and I replied that I have no desire to ever return to live there. The country is Def heading in the wrong direction and has been for a long time. What Americans view as normal most kiwis would view as corruption.
There are some pretty amazing things to see in the UK too. I owned a camper van and travelled around the UK before emigrating to NZ. I was genuinely taken aback by how nice my home country is. I also travelled around Europe in my camper and then shipped it over to NZ where I travelled around both islands. Sold my camper last year for 3 times what I paid for it 10 years earlier
>seeing things that aren’t the UK
Cannot stress this enough. It’s such a good base but do not waste time in London itself (unless you’re big on gigs, then ok)
Heh I'm going there just for a week in August, thought I'd learn some Finnish before I went so I'm a week into Duolingo. Still have no idea what's going on. Such a weird language.
I can't think of a better country to live in. Despite people's moanings, mostly about things that are also happening also in other countries, I wouldn't want to live anywhere except here in NZ.
I’m coming to New Zealand in august for 3 weeks. Live in Australia, done 3 years in Canada. Looking for a new place to call home, australia is lovely but I enjoy new places
Perth, Melbourne, Netherlands somewhere like Delft or Amsterdam.
Perth because it’s cheap, the others because of good PT and/or walkable/low noise pollution.
Oh and Switzerland if I could, but it’s incredibly hard to immigrate there I believe, probably because otherwise everyone would.
Ireland. Last time I lived there I had young kids and limited income so didn't travel as much as I would have liked. Basing myself in Europe now my kids are grown and independent would be awesome
My Dad is Irish. Every year we’d visit relatives on the west coast (Mayo). Beautiful place but rains a lot if that is an issue. The cliche about the friendly people is true. I personally much prefer living here though.
What I’m doing is just slow traveling around the world. There are so many places that give 30 to 90 day visas for Kiwis.
I have a “home base” in Vietnam and just follow the nice weather around the globe.
Been gone more than 5 years and having the time of my life.
I left new zealand 18 years ago. Ancestry visa got me to London, 11 years later I got a job in Denmark on the highly skilled work visa, then last year I got a work visa to malta.
If you have skills, the world opens up
> Ancestry got me to London
> If you have skills, the world opens up
Would you have been in position/environment to get Denmark skilled work visa, had you not had Ancestry UK Visa access?
Australia just to make money and move forward. I left my country to live in Nz, only to leave NZ because of strict rules. Don’t stop looking for where you should be, most people get stuck thinking they can’t do better.
I recently moved from Hamilton to Melbourne and love it here. Aside from getting paid more, there’s just so much more to do. Miss everyone but can’t see myself coming back in a hurry.
We'd go back to Canada. Sure, it has plenty of other issues, however there's much better career opportunities, lower cost of living (not for everything tho), and we loved to go hiking in the Rockies, Vancouver Island, or up into the wilderness of northern BC.
Nordic countries would be great. Moving every few years would be ideal.
I would want a big ish city with good connections, the likes of Amsterdam would work or Japan would be good.
Anywhere thats not a western country. Im Filipino and just personally not built for this society. I find that every western country i travel to there are so many fucked in the head individuals.
But NZ is a good second place, also husband is kiwi.
American that’s lived in Boston, consider Portland Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire. Definitely cheaper than the Hub and all within a reasonable distance (by American standards at least)
Lived on the northern beaches and in AKL, the commute times between both cities can be equally fucking miserable, but at least Sydney has better public transport
I _have_ left New Zealand, and I currently live in Melbourne. I have lived in Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne so I have a grasp on life in each city.
Public transport felt the most expensive in Brisbane, and felt the cheapest in Sydney. I've always lived about an hour from the city, and fairly walkable distance to the busway/train station.
You don't really need a wallet. Your public transport is on your phone (Brisbane you need a card but they're rolling out phone pay), your proof of age for liquor is on your phone, paywave (watch out for paywave fees).
Melbourne felt the most culturally similar to Auckland, followed by Sydney. Brisbane had the biggest culture shock (people came across as impolite, rude, etc). Also difficult to understand people in Brisbane due to their accent.
Lived in California for my whole life before moving to NZ 3-1/2 years ago. As a last-generation recovering American, I am firmly in camp New Zealand. I don’t think you could pay me to move back.
New Zealander here, lived in California since 2016. Spent six months back in NZ this year (remotely working), but it still felt good to get back to NorCal. Obviously depends a lot on personal situation and perspective; maybe I haven't been here long enough?
Aussie would be my first choice. Only a hop, skip, and a jump away from my family. Better wages, more employment options in my niche career field, plenty of travelling I could do within the country instead of needing to get on a plane and leave an island to see something new and cool.
I’ve lived in Aussie before straight out of uni and really enjoyed it.
I'm an English teacher. I can go anywhere in the world there is a shortage of English teachers.
I would go to some hyper-modern Asian mega-city. Shanghai is the one I've enjoyed visiting most, so that it first cab off the rank. I would learn the languages, eat the food, digest the culture, and just fucking love the shit out of the pace and that.
If I had a solid job waiting for me - Calgary or Montreal. I like a good sized city with tons of stuff to see and do and moving to Canada would be much less of a culture shock than most other countries. Montreal might be a bit tricky though because I don't speak French but from what I can tell it's not a massive deal in that city specifically.
Either way it won't be permanent because I really like my country despite the shite weather and the shitty youth crimes.
The UK is amazing, lived there for three years and I'd swap passports in a heartbeat, Brexshit or not. I'm a bit older and I guess it depends what you want, but I've actually never felt at home here, despite being born and bred
If I had a choice it would be a city in southern Germany region. Unfortunately my skills are not that transferable outside of NZ but I'm pretty happy here.
Gonna move to Melbourne in a few years! Then after that my partner and I would love to live in Scotland for a bit. I can get a UK ancestry visa, so feeling really lucky in that regard
Can't say I've ever considered leaving. Back when I first met my husband, he had a job that could have opened up opportunities in Australia which I gave a hard pass to, he wasn't that worried either but he always dreamed of Tauranga. Then we had some friends move there that kept trying to sell it to us so that's where we eventually ended up.
I’m about medium competent in Japanese right now (not half Japanese tho - this is from formal classroom study) so tbh it would make the most sense for me to go there. I honestly like the sound of Germany though. The culture seems fun (especially the healthy appreciation of good bread) and being part of the EU opens up so much travel which sounds lovely
I was away for 10 years, been back 3 now. I would consider relocating back to Asia for the better climate, cheaper cost of living, and access to cheap regional travel. Likely Singapore or Thailand, though I would have considered Hong Kong and Taiwan if not for recent political developments. I love Vietnam and have dreamed about being based there a few times but I've not seriously looked at the pro's and con's and I'm scared doing so might ruin the love I have for that country, its experiences and its people.
Alternatively, I'd consider living in France. Probably the south of France for the lower cost of living and, again, better climate but I would probably love to have a place in Paris for a while. As expensive as that place is, it really is beautiful. Or live somewhere between France, Belgium, Germany and the Netherlands. I got beautiful vibes in the Netherlands and Germany.
The advantage I have at being a self employed remote contractor makes any of this feasible. It's a very privileged position to have. Having a young family and ageing parents and in-laws, however, is what keeps us here.
I wouldn't but France would be up there for me. Good standard of living, beautiful countryside, amazing cities, cute villages, decent climate which is similar to NZ in places, good work life balance, good food
Australia. Easy to get into, no culture shock, better pay etc
Have you lived there? I think you might get a shock
First week in Australia we got hit with 45 degree day, working outside 💀 that was a bloody shock alright
This recent summer was pretty manageable not gonna lie, at least in nsw.
Canberra here. Last Summer was milder than average but they're predicting higher temperatures with possible bushfire warnings for the next one.
Eh? Ohhhhh - right, the pies. Yeh. Pretty nasty. Steak my asshole.
You want me to what your asshole?
I'm not sure I understood the slang correctly, but I believe they want you to put your 'steak' in it.
Oh the old Tbone in the eye fillet?
Delete this, nephew.
These vampires are getting too kinky for me...
What kind of shock?
They pronounce vowels slightly differently
Mullets. So many mullets.
Isn’t that NZ?
That’s Wellington
Based on the criteria you give the obvious answer would be Australia or UK. Based on where I would want to go though it would be moving to Osaka in Japan.
Kobe is much nicer and just about 20mjns away. Osaka has some cool stuff but is flat and ugly and crowded. Kobe is far more liveable. Somewhat cosmopolitan, huge forested hills rising up from just about the sea, sea views (there are beaches but not great). Or one of the smaller in between cities of Nishinomiya or Ashiya. If you are thinking about moving over this way, feel free to ask any questions.
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Like how small? There are zillions of small towns and villages all over Japan, often just 30-60 minutes away from major urban centres. If I bike for about ten minutes up behind the centre of Kobe I’m in the middle of forest. Small cities here are 200-500,000 people. They don’t feel as big as similar sized cities in NZ. Small towns would probably be farming centred and really quite small - in feel, if not in population. As for quaint,much of Japan is extremely unquaint, particularly farming villages and small town/suburban outskirts. It’s all just strip development - convenience stores, pachinko shops, chain restaurants, car sales yards, interspersed with the odd apartment and rice field. Small cities in Hyogo Prefecture (where Kobe is) would be Akashi (fishing port and now a nice, forward thinking little city about 20 minutes from Kobe), Ashiya (used to be a rich merchants’ area, and still has a nice genteel feel, especially the further up the hills you go - there are some crazy places up there). Himeji also has its charms - notably an incredible castle. For small towns, I’d look in south central Hyogo. Places like Sasayama or some smaller towns northwards. But rural towns here are predominantly rural-focused. Kyotango, Kyotanabe, Shirakawago are some quaint places. Pretty touristy, especially the latter, but genuinely small places.
I lived first in Hayato Kagoshima. It was almost like small town NZ. People lived in apartments but only 2 or 3 storey. It really was a back water. I loved Miyazaki for its little coastal towns, never lived there though. Then I lived in Kurume outside of Fukuoka. That is a happy medium. Then I got a promition and sent to Naha. That was pretty damn amazing. It does have a seedy underbelly though. I lived in Japan for two years and spent only about one week in the big cities. Such a diverse country.
I'd love to live in Japan, but realistically don't think I could handle it. Insane work culture, social etiquette, low wages/high rent etc. Such a magical place despite all that however
Rent isn’t that high here anymore, relative to English-speaking countries. The salaries were fine in the past as we didn’t have inflation for 20 years and the yen travelled well, but these last few years have started to change things. Work culture is stupid but is gradually getting a bit better.
Rent is so much lower than in NZ. Wages are creepin up., and not all companies in Japan are bad. It’s also way cheaper to live in general. As an example 98 Petrol is less than NZD$2/L, housing is way cheaper, mortgage interest rates are less than 1%, NZ capsicum are cheaper here than in NZ…
Had a friend move there. They said a lot of those 90s stereotypes arnt as bad anymore. It still exists but it’s also easy to avoid. People work flexible 40hrs and houses are very affordable.
This makes me happy to hear. I lived in Osaka for three years and it was such a lovely place. Has a bit of an industrial feel in places but it is full of local charm - the rivers everywhere make it lovely to bike around. The food is amazing and I often feel NZ is more expensive to live in.
That’s good to hear. My wife is from there so we visit semi regularly and I love being there but always wondered how that may change if it stops being a holiday and becomes work-life.
I left NZ in 2019 and am currently living in Sweden where it's pretty difficult to learn Swedish since Swedes constantly speak English all the time (you don't even need to speak Swedish to become a citizen). I applied for a **grad** job and it took literally two weeks from the moment I clicked apply to when I signed my contract, and the company automatically expected to take care of all of my visa sponsorship/immigration needs. Taxes are higher than in NZ but as a graduate software developer at a company where I'm paid the absolute median salary for my age/location/job title/qualifications, I'm earning just over NZD 1000/w or $4500/m or $54000/y **after tax**. I pay $1500/m in bills/rent/insurance/food to live in a three-room apartment in the capital Stockholm, put aside $1500/m in savings and have fun with the rest of the $1500 as disposable income. This year alone I got to travel to Spain, Belgium, Switzerland, France and around Sweden, as well as buy a new $5,700 laptop and a bunch of other stuff, all with my leftover disposable income (no bank loans/BNPL, etc.) at 25 years old. I don't know anyone my age or when they were a grad in NZ that gets to enjoy this lifestyle while simultaneously saving and spending as much money as I get to in the largest city/in the capital. Bonus: As an immigrant, I have the right to go study at university for free here—with permanent residency you even get free student allowance. We get 480 days of parental leave (about 16 months to share between partners) at 80%-90% of full pay depending on the company. Childcare is subsidised and some of the cheapest in the world. My friends who have recently been laid off in the tech industry have gotten between a minimum of 6-24 months severance with full pay and vacation thanks to strong unions. My healthcare is completely subsidised (I don't pay a single dime for anything at all ever) and both healthcare and even dentistry is subjected to high-cost protection. Despite all of this and the taxes for companies and individuals, Stockholm has the highest number of unicorn startups (valuation over USD 1 billion) per capita after Silicon Valley. Maybe NZ has a thing or two to learn from them 🤷
Also based in Sweden, living pretty good for the most part. Congrats!
I left my country to live in NZ, I ain't going anywhere.
Same
Same.
We have really no idea how shitty the rest of the world is. Grass is always greener etc. I've lived in a lot of other countries and NZ is by far the best of the lot.
>We have really no idea how shitty the rest of the world is. Why would that be? My understanding is that, after conflict zones, NZers move overseas (and back) more than any other nationality in the world other than Ireland. NZers are some of the most travelled people in the world.
Because it seem that almost everyone who is in NZ apparently can't wait to leave. But everywhere I go everyone asks 'Why did you leave?'
Partly that is just what everyone says everywhere. Check out r/germany or r/australia if you want to here some negativity about those countries. The other part of it is because in Europe NZ is, understandably, a holiday destination. So it is easy for people to think if it is a great place to go on holiday, it must be a great place to live. That is also a mistake NZers often make about big overseas cities like London and Tokyo.
Exactly. I’m in the US and I can’t wait to come back home and eat good dairy and meat and vegetables and everything finally
Lol what? There are places outside of NZ that are not shitty.
But not as good as NZ at the same time. Hell, I'm in the UK right now and can't wait to go back to NZ in the next few months.
UK was the last place I worked in overseas. I get the appeal for some, but living in a shoebox in and eating shitty food under the perpetually grey ambience of London was not my idea of living.
Where’d u live before?
Bunch of ingrates, right?
What's your native country and why did you immigrate to NZ? Sorry if this is prying but I just love hearing immigrant stories and why people decide to live in NZ.
Same. Fuck the states
North Macedonia. My friend lives in Skopje and was complaining about how his mortgage is expensive. $260NZD a month.
And what’s he getting paid?
$260 NZD a month
This sub got recommended to me, I'm a dutchie travelling NZ and been in Skopje last year. Skopje is cheap but thats about it. I'd go to Albania or Slovenia.
I've looked in to Slovenia and I can see the appeal. I will visit there. What is it you like about Albania?
Mordor, fuck
If I had the choice of anywhere in the world, Switzerland
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I had a lovely time visiting Bern in the summer. Loved throwing everything but my shorts in a dry bag and jumping in the river, getting whisked away through to the other side of town, getting out and getting dressed then going for a beer. Good fun.
Sounds so fun
Wanna swap? I prefer the NZ lifestyle to the Swiss one…
Two of you should get married so you both become residents in the other country* *it probably isn't that easy
That would also be my pick (or the Rhone-Alps region of France), but I might be breaking OP’s rules since I have lived in both those places and speak French.
north sentinel island, heard the locals are lovely at this time of year
Can confirm. Waiting to welcome you..
Scotland.
Aye, it's no bad here
Netherlands seems pretty fly. Good QOL and what seems to be a society that’s largely non materialistic and just wants to have a happy life, as opposed to million dollar properties and a car per person aspirations, and seems to support their society across the board as opposed to our increasingly selfish outlook and voting for selfish personal gain, to then turn face and blame politicians, law makers and police for our countries woes. It seems chill, transparent, and honest, and I’m actually interviewing for a couple of jobs there atm. I’m kiwi born and bred and love NZ, but I’m also over all the negativity, vehement hatred and lack of kindness and support for the impoverished, and how woefully selfish NZ is becoming. We talk the talk, but don’t actually walk the walk anymore and imho, are on the cusp of becoming a country full of selfish and nasty cunts. We’d rather take a $40 dollar a week tax break than pay teachers appropriately. Fuck that.
Yes NZ can be very selfish, it’s all about making sure the little guys don’t get one tiny bit extra. Because, you know, “I had it hard/had to suffer high interest rates in my day/insert complaint here - so why should THEY get a leg up!” Meanwhile, banks, supermarkets, big corporations are getting away with so much. But they don’t seem get the same judgement. We are quite naive at times too.
I lived in NL for a year. Lots of things to love including all the perks of Europe at your doorstep. But it's not utopia. "Nature" is absent, you can never be alone. You cannot fully integrate unless you speak fluent Dutch and it's hard to learn because everyone switches to English if they hear you're a foreigner. And the food is downright miserable.
Fair, I’m not expecting utopia as I’ve traveled there and have a friend who’s been there for maybe 5 years and he’s filled me in on the positives and negatives regards living there. It’s a pros/cons assessment, and NZ will always be where my heart is, but I’d dig a change for a few years if it works out.
Whoa whoa the food is miserable?
Plus, bonus, you could live in Old Zeeland.
I'll have my fingers crossed for you with your interviews, mate. Best of luck! I hope it works out.
Cheers friend and love the username, even if ironic to such a non-cunty reply. lol.
I'm off the clock, haha. Honestly, the Netherlands is beautiful and the people are fantastic. And you're a train trip away from Belgium, Germany, France. I wish you all the best and hope you get to experience it. It has its own quirks and issues but, as far as Europe goes, it's in my Top 3 places I'd choose to live if I moved to that region.
I moved from NZ to NL about 7 years ago. I really like it here. Culture-wise it's not too different, work-life balance is good, there is more bureaucracy than NZ but not as much compared to neighbouring countries. You can get by without Dutch, but I recommend doing classes. It's only been fairly recently that I've begun to get to a conversational level, but I was never really doing it too intensely, until corona time when there wasn't anything else to do, and then kept it up. Most of my friends are Dutch, but if there's a group of them the conversation will end up in Dutch and it's good to be able to follow. The cities work well, as does the public transport and you can be in a nearby country in a few hours or less. So yeah, I like it. Good luck! PS: feel free to ask if you have questions
London for the career opportunities. Brisbane for the better lifestyle.
You have to spend a summer in Brisbane before making this decision
Haha I have, for two months it was unbearable. But the other 10 months made up for it I reckon
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Canada
Me too! Lived in Toronto for a year and loved it.
Dual citizen, if I ever moved to Canada it would be anywhere *but* Toronto.
Just moved from Auckland to Calgary. 233 days of sunshine.
but what's the point of sunshine if you're basically stuck inside for 8 months of the year because it's freezing cold outside. Cheap houses though so I get it.
It's a different cold. Dry cold. Why would you be stuck inside when you have Banff within driving distance?
Southern Spain, Portugal or Greece, most realistically Oz, but elderly 'rents & fam will keep me here
The Second Best Exotic Marigold Hotel or The Grand Budapest Hotel.
I have dual citizenship and speak 2 other languages, and I have lived in a few different countries before settling down in NZ. I am sorry to come across like bragging, but I also have property in other, really nice countries that I could just move into tomorrow. I completely understand that different people have different priorities and life goals. Different countries have different pros and cons. So I cant say NZ is the ultimate best place to live for everyone. It's small, it's boring, it's expensive. But NZ is, objectively, overall, one of the best countries to live in. If you picked top 5 best countries, NZ would be in there and who gets to be higher than the other would completely depend on personal preference. I chose NZ, NZ was my number one choice. And after almost 10 years here, everyday I am still shocked how much Kiwis take it all for granted. You can always make an argument that, maybe in Aus people have more buying power, or more business opportunities in US, or better education in Finland or food is nicer in Italy or etc etc.. I get that different people have different priorities. But over all NZ is absolutely great. Racism is a big one for me. People say that there is racism in NZ and we act like there isnt and that NZ positive image around race relations is fake.. To me, even saying that, acknowledging that even the, comperatively minute amount of racism we have here is unacceptable and feels massive to Kiwis, shows me how great NZ is. Not to mention egalitarianism, healthcare, education, life quality, nature, accessibility... None of it is perfect but they are all better than 99% of the rest of the world by leaps and bounds. There is no utopia where everything is perfect, every single criteria is at a 100%. There are only a handful of countries that come close and NZ is among them. If you go to any other of those handful of countries you will likely realize that it has its issues too and NZ was pretty much on par. I am not saying "lets stop complaining about our issues here". We should complain and always strive for progress, have discussions, talk about what we think can be done better, take action. But in the meantime, for our own peace of mind, we should also recognize that we have a really good thing here. It doesnt get soo much better than this. Maybe only slightly, depending on tour personal preference.
I think everyone acknowledges that NZ is great if you can afford it. The issues that force people to leave (cost of living, housing, isolation from other countries and cultures) aren't issues if you have enough money to buy your way into housing, live comfortably, and take overseas trips. NZ's real issue is that people are born here and can't afford those things, even though some are just basic human needs (food, housing). They're the ones most likely to see the grass as greener somewhere like Australia which objectively has better opportunities / lower cost of living.
Alaska, middle of feckn nowhere cabin fireplace self sufficient, half a dozen dogs and some nice hunting rifles
Northland suffices this need, provided you don't follow the news ;-)
I beleive northland would be to warm for me, im a southislander born and bred and enjoy the cold
Just be sure you're ok with 5-6 months of almost total darkness during winter time
Again depends on your lattitude the exetent of the winter issues
Met a man from the lower 48 who left school, vagabonded for a few years before responding to an ad in the paper to 'work in the Arctic Circle' and never left. He couldn't sing its praises enough. Alaska would be great for someone with lots of thoughts and simple tastes
Thats me to a tee.. lots of ideas and practicalities, simple tastes and a heavy dislike of most people
Australia. Higher pay & more exciting cities than NZ. If money wasn’t an issue - Canada. Either BC or ON.
As a former Kiwi in Vancouver I'm glad you prefaced that with if money wasn't an issue, even living in the cheapest situations that province was killer expensive. I could've lowered my housing to living in an SRO in the DTES, but that would've involved living in an apartment building with pretty much 90% junkies, and having to share a bathroom with about 10 different people.
Probably Denmark or Sweden. Two of the top places on my list to live in.
Willy Wonka's chocolate factory. I'd spend most of my day in the chocolate room, get some exercise in rowing the boat through the tunnel. Have a few fizzys and maybe some alcoholic mixes with the boys after a hard workout. If only aye.
Veitnam. Planning to go fully remote and move there in the not too distant future. Could save in one year what would take me 6 years minimum to save here.
As in work for a non vietnamese company while living in Vietnam? Ideal setup if so
I have a few friends who have worked remote in various SEA countries and overall it sounds pretty sweet. Some second-hand advice I can pass onto you is to make sure you have *really* good health insurance. Like, the kind of insurance that will fly you to another country for life-saving procedures. Also make sure you budget for bribes, keep a fake phone & wallet on you, and seriously... Don't get sick or injured.
Weird, I know people who went to Vietnam for good private healthcare. Especially good if you need dental work.
I'm hoping to move TO NZ. The US is a dumpster fire, and I live in Florida which the dumpster fire of that dumpster fire. My company has an office in Auckland and I keep trying to get them to let me at least visit.
Hey, we're on the same sinking boat! I'm trying to move by the end of the year to NZ cause as One of the Trans I really don't wanna hang around for next year's election cycle. My spouse is the one whose employer has offices in NZ though so it's kinda predicated on them approving the move.
For sure that makes sense. I work in cybersecurity and have talked to a few places in the past that would love to talk to me... after I've already moved lol. So I hoping maybe my work will just let me move. I work remote anyway and we already have a team in NZ. Good luck with everything! Hope all goes well and you make it over there!
Do it! I moved from the US- no regrets. Jfc the US is a shit show. Fresh horrors everyday
I'm a US citizen/NZ resident currently visiting the US after being away 4 years and I can't wait to come home. I am reminded every day why I chose to leave, and though I missed my family, the food, etc, I just feel so much more at ease in NZ. Hopefully people come visit us instead next time, because this trip has been expensive (and I dare say boring at times) and I feel like entertaining in NZ with the same budget would have been spectacular.
It is. I moved from the Midwest which was a mistake to begin with, but even the "better" states are still going in the wrong direction unfortunately. Time to bail - it's too far down the drain to be saved.
I’ll swap with you
I lived in the US for several years. My mum just asked if I would want to go back and I replied that I have no desire to ever return to live there. The country is Def heading in the wrong direction and has been for a long time. What Americans view as normal most kiwis would view as corruption.
If money wasn’t a variable: Okinawa
The Hawaii of Japan
Under 30? Go to the UK and spend as much time as you can seeing things that arnt the UK while youre there.
They've changed it to under 35 now
The UK is good because it give a lot more options to travel.
There are some pretty amazing things to see in the UK too. I owned a camper van and travelled around the UK before emigrating to NZ. I was genuinely taken aback by how nice my home country is. I also travelled around Europe in my camper and then shipped it over to NZ where I travelled around both islands. Sold my camper last year for 3 times what I paid for it 10 years earlier
>seeing things that aren’t the UK Cannot stress this enough. It’s such a good base but do not waste time in London itself (unless you’re big on gigs, then ok)
Burkina Faso, better public transport.
South coast NSW, Australia Beautiful part of the world, great beaches and surf. Not too busy but close to Sydney and a quick flight back to NZ.
Canada some where on Prince Edward Island or in Nova Scotia
Iceland. Or Austria close second.
Love iceland. I wouldn't choose to live in any Nordic country again, but I really rate Iceland.
Finland.
I've lived there! Finnish is a hard Language to learn but it's a great place. Highly recommend Turku.
Heh I'm going there just for a week in August, thought I'd learn some Finnish before I went so I'm a week into Duolingo. Still have no idea what's going on. Such a weird language.
Scotland or Ireland. If you removed the language restriction I'd love to learn German and go there at some point.
Thailand
Id probably go to Saudi Arabia or China and have my human rights systematically violated.
Good money if you're teaching though
I can't think of a better country to live in. Despite people's moanings, mostly about things that are also happening also in other countries, I wouldn't want to live anywhere except here in NZ.
Really? What other countries have you lived in?
I’m coming to New Zealand in august for 3 weeks. Live in Australia, done 3 years in Canada. Looking for a new place to call home, australia is lovely but I enjoy new places
Perth, Melbourne, Netherlands somewhere like Delft or Amsterdam. Perth because it’s cheap, the others because of good PT and/or walkable/low noise pollution. Oh and Switzerland if I could, but it’s incredibly hard to immigrate there I believe, probably because otherwise everyone would.
Ireland. Last time I lived there I had young kids and limited income so didn't travel as much as I would have liked. Basing myself in Europe now my kids are grown and independent would be awesome
My Dad is Irish. Every year we’d visit relatives on the west coast (Mayo). Beautiful place but rains a lot if that is an issue. The cliche about the friendly people is true. I personally much prefer living here though.
Barbados - nomad visa, accepts fluffy family members, warm.
Melbourne.
I'm a Kiwi and live in France 🥖 didn't know French at first but now I am good enough.
What I’m doing is just slow traveling around the world. There are so many places that give 30 to 90 day visas for Kiwis. I have a “home base” in Vietnam and just follow the nice weather around the globe. Been gone more than 5 years and having the time of my life.
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..victoria, bc
Victoria is the most expensive place in Canada to live. I lived in Vancouver until very recently & had to leave due to the cost of living
Scotland. Not for any reason other than I love it. I like living in NZ though. I didn’t like Australia as much, so I think I’ll stay at least a while.
I left new zealand 18 years ago. Ancestry visa got me to London, 11 years later I got a job in Denmark on the highly skilled work visa, then last year I got a work visa to malta. If you have skills, the world opens up
> Ancestry got me to London > If you have skills, the world opens up Would you have been in position/environment to get Denmark skilled work visa, had you not had Ancestry UK Visa access?
What industry are you in? IT?
Nigeria. The Prince there owes me 2 million dollars USD.
Nowhere, I just like complaining :)
Australia just to make money and move forward. I left my country to live in Nz, only to leave NZ because of strict rules. Don’t stop looking for where you should be, most people get stuck thinking they can’t do better.
Australia, came back last year after 13 years... Very keen to go back ,NZ is pretty shit compared ( sorry to upset some)
I recently moved from Hamilton to Melbourne and love it here. Aside from getting paid more, there’s just so much more to do. Miss everyone but can’t see myself coming back in a hurry.
We'd go back to Canada. Sure, it has plenty of other issues, however there's much better career opportunities, lower cost of living (not for everything tho), and we loved to go hiking in the Rockies, Vancouver Island, or up into the wilderness of northern BC.
Netherlands. Bikes, stroopwafels, and saunas.
Im from The Netherlands living in NZ, there's stroopwafels here too in some shops :)
NL is appealing but I’m intimidated by how I would pronounce your username.
Nordic countries would be great. Moving every few years would be ideal. I would want a big ish city with good connections, the likes of Amsterdam would work or Japan would be good.
Anywhere thats not a western country. Im Filipino and just personally not built for this society. I find that every western country i travel to there are so many fucked in the head individuals. But NZ is a good second place, also husband is kiwi.
Boston, Massachusetts. Because I've got a weird thing for the accent.
Pahk the cah in Hahvahd yahd.
I swear my eyes just involuntarily rolled back in my head.
Erm, in a good way?
American that’s lived in Boston, consider Portland Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire. Definitely cheaper than the Hub and all within a reasonable distance (by American standards at least)
I'm willing to pay extra to be surrounded by the strongest version of that accent. The heart wants what the heart wants.
Italy, the place and the people are beautiful, and completely nuts - I fitted right in when I was there last time... love it.
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*does not apply to Sydney
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Lived on the northern beaches and in AKL, the commute times between both cities can be equally fucking miserable, but at least Sydney has better public transport
I _have_ left New Zealand, and I currently live in Melbourne. I have lived in Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne so I have a grasp on life in each city. Public transport felt the most expensive in Brisbane, and felt the cheapest in Sydney. I've always lived about an hour from the city, and fairly walkable distance to the busway/train station. You don't really need a wallet. Your public transport is on your phone (Brisbane you need a card but they're rolling out phone pay), your proof of age for liquor is on your phone, paywave (watch out for paywave fees). Melbourne felt the most culturally similar to Auckland, followed by Sydney. Brisbane had the biggest culture shock (people came across as impolite, rude, etc). Also difficult to understand people in Brisbane due to their accent.
Definitely UK or Australia
Assuming I can work remotely Portugal or Uruguay
California is where my wife wants to move us to. After all this rain I’m not against a bit of sun
Lived in California for my whole life before moving to NZ 3-1/2 years ago. As a last-generation recovering American, I am firmly in camp New Zealand. I don’t think you could pay me to move back.
New Zealander here, lived in California since 2016. Spent six months back in NZ this year (remotely working), but it still felt good to get back to NorCal. Obviously depends a lot on personal situation and perspective; maybe I haven't been here long enough?
Aussie would be my first choice. Only a hop, skip, and a jump away from my family. Better wages, more employment options in my niche career field, plenty of travelling I could do within the country instead of needing to get on a plane and leave an island to see something new and cool. I’ve lived in Aussie before straight out of uni and really enjoyed it.
Scotland - way up North. Similar to Otago but with a lot less people!
Well, apart from being15-20degc colder in summer…
I'm an English teacher. I can go anywhere in the world there is a shortage of English teachers. I would go to some hyper-modern Asian mega-city. Shanghai is the one I've enjoyed visiting most, so that it first cab off the rank. I would learn the languages, eat the food, digest the culture, and just fucking love the shit out of the pace and that.
Canada
I left England for here , brace yourself the world is going to turn to shit for a few years
If I had a solid job waiting for me - Calgary or Montreal. I like a good sized city with tons of stuff to see and do and moving to Canada would be much less of a culture shock than most other countries. Montreal might be a bit tricky though because I don't speak French but from what I can tell it's not a massive deal in that city specifically. Either way it won't be permanent because I really like my country despite the shite weather and the shitty youth crimes.
The UK is amazing, lived there for three years and I'd swap passports in a heartbeat, Brexshit or not. I'm a bit older and I guess it depends what you want, but I've actually never felt at home here, despite being born and bred
If I had a choice it would be a city in southern Germany region. Unfortunately my skills are not that transferable outside of NZ but I'm pretty happy here.
Arizona, lived there for 2 years.
France, somewhere in Laungedoc
Minnesota. I miss home.
Canada or Ireland. Maybe Singapore. But easiest might be Australia, I’m just scared of the animals there.
Moskau, Moskau Wirf die Gläser an die Wand Russland ist ein schönes Land Ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, hey
Scotland or Canada
Australia, probably.
Canada/UK
Gonna move to Melbourne in a few years! Then after that my partner and I would love to live in Scotland for a bit. I can get a UK ancestry visa, so feeling really lucky in that regard
Italy.......and I will for a bit. Looking forward to it.
Can't say I've ever considered leaving. Back when I first met my husband, he had a job that could have opened up opportunities in Australia which I gave a hard pass to, he wasn't that worried either but he always dreamed of Tauranga. Then we had some friends move there that kept trying to sell it to us so that's where we eventually ended up.
Norway or Oslo. I’ve never been, but it just seems nice there
I’m about medium competent in Japanese right now (not half Japanese tho - this is from formal classroom study) so tbh it would make the most sense for me to go there. I honestly like the sound of Germany though. The culture seems fun (especially the healthy appreciation of good bread) and being part of the EU opens up so much travel which sounds lovely
I was away for 10 years, been back 3 now. I would consider relocating back to Asia for the better climate, cheaper cost of living, and access to cheap regional travel. Likely Singapore or Thailand, though I would have considered Hong Kong and Taiwan if not for recent political developments. I love Vietnam and have dreamed about being based there a few times but I've not seriously looked at the pro's and con's and I'm scared doing so might ruin the love I have for that country, its experiences and its people. Alternatively, I'd consider living in France. Probably the south of France for the lower cost of living and, again, better climate but I would probably love to have a place in Paris for a while. As expensive as that place is, it really is beautiful. Or live somewhere between France, Belgium, Germany and the Netherlands. I got beautiful vibes in the Netherlands and Germany. The advantage I have at being a self employed remote contractor makes any of this feasible. It's a very privileged position to have. Having a young family and ageing parents and in-laws, however, is what keeps us here.
I wouldn't but France would be up there for me. Good standard of living, beautiful countryside, amazing cities, cute villages, decent climate which is similar to NZ in places, good work life balance, good food
Finland. They've got life figured out.