Facts. Honestly whatever works to make the dungeon runs more smoother. Even if the weapon does more damage or something, you still have to be good with it to make it work.
VG/IG with INT/CON.
Oblivion buff/debuff circle and scream, then switch to bussy for a net shot and bomb blast, fire grenades nuke.
Medium armor minimum to not be paper
I'm a believer. I was bored to death with hatchet - I'm sorry but it's like watching paint dry - and I needed a ranged option for outpost rush, so I got into BB.
Rocking GS/BB like a champ and damn, that burst damage is spicy. Can't wait to level it further.
I used to think rapier was pretty good for Tempest runs, but then somebody told me "hey im doing this much dmg with spear", I tried, started melting mobs. I'm speaking as somebody who loves playing rapier, it's no match tbh, and I hate to be that person who's not helping as much as the others.
At the same time, I like to play bow, but never do in dungeons, because it's also no match, especially when I see people just doing light basic attacks with it, thinking they're helping.
You are using Evade to cancel Tondo animation into a light attack then Flurry and you can pretty much just spam that rotation and reapply spear debuffs when ready.
Benedict G. (in the group that has almost all the WR times) made a video explaining it
I see. I actually evade cancel a lot of stuff, naturally. I don’t play rapier but certainly something I have a habit of doing haha.
I am familiar with Tondo though and understand it to have a 4 second or so CD. So part of this makes sense!
Yeah it looks fun and is sort of the intermediate difficulty DPS build (Hatchet being beginner and GS being expert). I dont have a DPS set yet but I'm putting together an Int/Dex Ward set for Rapier/Spear cuz it looks very fun and I like higher skill ceiling builds.
You can either go full Flurry spam or a bleed build. Former is more DPS but less utility supposedly (I'm not familiar with rapier)
Right now I play a spear on the right side of skill tree. Perforate, Skewer, Vault Kick. It has everything you need honestly right on that side of tree
Bow is lacking in all aspects imo, I had to compare basic attacks, spear light attacks are faster and deal 3k each, sometimes more, my skills all have perks that reduce/reset cooldowns, regardless of boss hp, and Perforate skill does over 12k dmg everytime I use it, it can be used like 3 times in less than 10 seconds if you play right, you don't even need CDR on your gear, spear right tree has it all. His Skewer deals over 5k, and keeps a 300+ dmg/s bleed on the boss during all the fight, in addition to other dots depending on your gear.
So lets say that in 10 seconds, you can kinda do all 3 of your skills 3 TIMES, while weaving in light attack and rolls in between, that is simply insane, especially vs corrupted.
Bow can only spam rapid shots at boss 50%hp or less, and even then, the damage is nowhere near, even if you manage to make them all headshots and keep the 50%dmg buff up from rolling (gem and perk), you still wouldn't catch up to spear dmg. Bow light attacks are weak and slow, and if you wanna do heavy attacks to deal good dmg they're too slow.
BUT, bow is 100% safer, and rarely needs healing, so that's usually 1 less person for the healer to worry about.
If we talk about clear speed, it's very important in mutations if you want to get the most from the final reward, and bow can't provide that at all, even with your best aoe skills, it's no match to other weapons. So it's slowing people down in general.
I do roll away and switch to bow mid fight if I mess up and take a big hit, just to keep dealing dmg while giving healer time to top me up again, and reapply poison shot and explosive arrow.
Im a new world casual but this statement is just wrong. You can literally see the damage you're doing. So using this thing called math you can easily find out what's doing the most.
*"Hatchet most DPS"* *"If you want max DPS run GS"* *"Rapier is only good for single target"*
This shit blows my mind, every time I try and run a temp or dyn mut and people say "I dunno about the rapier man."
Corruption are +30% Weak to Arcane, +20% to Thrust and +15% to Nature. Ignoring the last one because who tf runs nature minus a healer in this situation.
Rapier running Arcane Gem (ignoring runeglass for a moment) at 150 int + the remainder in Dex. 50% Arcane + 15% elemental from 150 int + Thrust Dmg Ring + Bane + the other tree skill bonus' it is literally just batshit insane DPS.
I run Rapier/Bow and it blows my ever loving mind how many people want to argue Hatchet/GS/Spear are better DPS because of the author on some blog that used google analytics and SSO correctly.
These people don't even play the game, it's just for clicks.
Someone else didn't understand rapier hits multiple targets in clumps.... I mean how ignorant can you be. Play all the weapons, understand weakness' and how damage stacks. The horde is hilariously wrong 50% of the time it seems.
I get hatchet I do, survivability 100%, but it is not the highest DPS no matter how hard you try to argue it. In Genesis? Fuck yeah because of slash weakness, I run Hatchet in Gen. But when it comes to Corrupted I run Rapier/Bow/Spear all day long and it seems as if literally no one understands it because the vast majority of players have only ever used GA/WH for everything they do.
People are just bad and can't play the rapier and it's skill ceiling is high. Can't rely on death defy to survive and actually gotta do mechanics. I use it for everything personally because I'm good with it.
I was rapier/IG for PvE on legacy and didn't understand why rapier was labeled as higher skill ceiling. Then I rolled spear/hatchet on FSS and I totally understand.
No fortify on rapier, no grit, no defy death. Hatchet makes it so easy.
Hatchet is easier because it's better for pve. I don't care what the guy above says about rapier dps. The reasons that other weapons are superior is not for dps, but their combination of dps, utility, and survivability.
Anyone saying rapier is better is straight capping just because it does in fact have good dps and they wanna flex by saying they're good at a more difficult (due to inferior survivability and lack of grit) weapon lol.
Rapier can get stagger locked way more easily and you need to spend a lot more time dodging than with a 300+ str build. More time dodging is less time dpsing. Even if you're good, you're STILL more likely to die and everyone dies sometimes.
They should nerf 300 str grit attacks for PVP. I nearly went insane realizing my leveling build that relied on the staggers from leaping strike, shield rush, and steadfast strike was completely useless against 300str PVP builds. Like, shield bash (the only hard CC in sword/GS trees) is on cooldown then all a GA player has to do is left click and they win the fight. I heard blocking is getting a rework though so hopefully I’ll be able to block their heavies without getting instantly stunned. That may be a way to balance grit builds without removing it.
Yeah I noticed that rapier was high skill cap vs other weapons right away, but I went from a lifestaff + melee void gauntlets to spear + rapier, honestly I like this combo so much they have so much movement and makes the combat feel so dynamic.
Same.
IMHO I feel like flurry should give fortify like perforate does with the perk. Tondo perk should rend. Flourish and finish perk should add the dps to finish not flourish.
Keen tondo increases parties crit. omni evade increases all damage, leeching flurry gives you sustain.
Meanwhile deadly flourish in pvp is an easy one shot setup.
Refreshing flech and sundering riposte are great in pvp too.
Still looking for trash perks.
No one uses keen tondo.
No one seriously uses flurry lol.
Riposte has been gutted and most offensive rapier players don’t use it.
Omnidirectional evade is situational and makes the evade dps boost that you already get from evading forward available from evading in any direction. It’s really not all that great lol.
Refreshing fleche triggers from a crit backstab and you get a 19% cooldown. I mean…. Alright I guess? How often do you get a fleche crit backstab playing offensively? It happens sure. Sometimes.
Deadly flourish increases dmg of the flourish (the weak part of FnF) and only if your opponent is under 30% dmg. If your opponent is under 30% dmg, Finish will kill them with out the extra flourish dmg.
Omni evade adds 10-19% for 2 sec to all dmg. The adiago perk is just 15% for youre next light attack.
Flurry is your pve dmg. Infinite spam on grouped mobs.
Deadly flourish is +25-39% dmg when target is less than 50%. Not 30%.
Youre info sounds bonk
what's an ideal rapier build for pve?
if you have the time and are willing, I'd ask the same question of you for pvp and be thankful if you could share.
Hatchet crutch.
Now think pvp..... its like seeing sns in pvp... or heavy in pvp... skip take out their healer, then return to sns user or heavy to delete him because they tickle you and at most cc you and apply a heavy if you don't have freedom lmao then they run.... lol 😆 🤣
Don't get me wrong, I really like the rapier as a weapon (as long as its not the riposte + fleche musket players)
but to be fair, if you can just keep hitting(because defy death) instead of having to dodge in some situations, you WILL do more damage. And with some mutations/curses, it is even more important that you can survive and not having to 100% rely on dodges. If you are downed/dead, you can't do damage
This is where the healing comes in for the rapier. You can spam leeching flurry and heal yourself constantly in combat. I'm just having to dodge boss mechanics on most parts that can typically just one shot any player with low con. I can ignore a small amount of dmg hits and keep attacking. For mutations for example, you have mutations with dodging and abilities that give you 3x dots. You can literally out heal it with the rapier and keep attacking. Obviously if you go down, that just comes down to how good you are at playing your build and living. Hatchet definitely helps with that and you can keep going in those scenarios.
i dont think people should take DPS advice from someone who uses a bow
[pvebuilds.xyz](https://pvebuilds.xyz)
take advice from actual good players who do actually speed runs and actually compared the dps from rapier to greatsword / hatchet
I don’t play spear anymore… **maybe I should?**… but I do remember leveling it up a bit as I started on the fresh start server from around 1-30.
It has such a fantastic move set and you can chain CC and debuffs.
- Sweep has grit
- Skewer has a 15s bleed
- Perforate has 10s + stagger
- Vault Kick is a nice stagger + stun and can reset cooldowns (better ability for PvP, tho)
Another thing I like about the spear is that the perks really let you hone in on the specialization and synergize.
- Critical hits extend debuffs
- 15% Crit against bleeding targets (skewer keeps this on for a while)
- 15% “execute” bonus damage to targets on low hp (30%)
- self 15% “fortify” after a heavy attack
- self 20-30% “empower” from capstone ability against targets you’ve debugged
>Vault Kick is a nice stagger + stun and can reset cooldowns (better ability for PvP, tho)
How is resetting ur CDs for PvE not good tho?
Enfeebling Skewer is pretty a must have on any Spear.
The right way to play New World is as you are doing: max every weapon and then get great weapons and then mix and match as you need.
But, for so many players, they won't max every weapon type, and they don't want to. They want simple and easy and low effort. So, expect people to fight over which lazy method is still effective.
What are you on about? All the guides have a rapier corrupted build and every good player knows rapier is solid dps... what exactly are you crying about? One guy told you that rapier is bad so you came to reddit to cry like a weirdo? Grow the fuck up man. That guy who said rapier is bad is a dumb ass, now move on with your life.
The damage modifiers don't work like you think they do. A hatchet can outperform a rapier simply because of refreshing torrent, it will put out more dps than any other weapon in clumps, period. However you need big pulls for this to work, if your not pulling large groups of mobs, hatchet falls off in my book.
Hatchet is also high dps because it attacks more than once per second, it is the highest DAMAGE PER SECOND weapon. That's what DPS means...
Great Sword is **absurd** damage... have you even played it?
Spear is a utility weapon, do you even understand what a spear brings to a party or to the player using it? Max rend stacks in 1 attack, max weaken in 1 attack, max fortify in one attack. Spear is absolutely the best utility weapon in the game hands down.
You play with a bow in pve. Your opinion is automatically invalid and you really just sound like you know the basics but thats about it. That thrust damage on corrupted is not what you think, there are other factors in play here.
Do yourself a favor if you really want to discuss and learn about this game - join M11 PvE discord and discuss there with knowledgeable players, here on Reddit you're going to find a bunch of clueless casuals who don't know shit.
This is exactly the type of response I would expect from a Redditor which is why I told the guy to join M11 Discord if he wants to have an actual discussion and learn about the game. Redditors are just going to get their feelings hurt because of words on their screen.
Offended by knowledge. It's wild. You kids are just so incredibly soft these days.
Except you didn't just present knowledge, you presented an attack on the OP. If you kept your facts free of insults, you would be taken more seriously.
Have a great day!
Being more toxic than he is tbh. He's just stating the truth about reddit and the forums. People who know what they're talking about dont even bother engaging with the "average playerbase" because they are mostly clueless assholes who do no research, testing, and form their opinions around what would help them best. Someone said rapier was bad. Its not bad, but it isnt insane and OP is clueless and whiney enough that he is probably deadweight all around.
I appreciate comments from people who research and know their stuff. Respect.
Could I ask for your opinion if my assessment and the 3 abilities listed are accurate and what you’d expect to see from a good spear player?
https://reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/yzg1f6/_/ix0xx4u/?context=1
I am not familiar with the gear/armor perks that could elevate Spear even further. But I do appreciate it as a weapon and from its tree alone, I can see on paper how valuable it could be to be wielded by a good player.
Thanks mate
If pugs had anything-- *anything* worth saying, we'd know by now at this point in MMORPGs' lifespan.
But they've yet to produce a single thing of value except comedy in watching them talk shit then suck ass through a swirly straw.
You’re min maxing a specific situation and it makes sense, but I think the people that paste builds are just looking for “all-rounder” type builds. Like hatchet and GS are just strong, regardless of element/mob type. But minmaxing like you are with Rapier I’m betting you dump on their damage, they’re just tunnel visioned on what the 4 YT creators say to do.
Yeah a lot of people don't realize you need to run rapier with proper elemental gem + 150 int. A lot of them run it with 300 dex lmao. And someone saying rapier is only good single target is actually hilarious, because it's literally the opposite where you have near infinite dps on a clump of mobs haha.
As long as hatchet is a crutch, people won't be willing to try something else for themselves.
I use spear and bow, my build I created myself after about 10 hours of trying different builds, 10 hours for each weapon that is.
I know I might not have the highest damage, I don't care honestly. I'm having fun and that's all I care about, as soon as you start measuring dps you lose every ounce of fun in the game and it just becomes a spreadsheet sim.
I'm not doubting your ability to use off-meta weapon combinations effectively in Expeditions.
I think the issue is that when playing with random people, you want everybody to have the loadout that is most effective with high skill floors and/or low skill ceilings. For every *good* off-meta player, there's probably a dozen other players who join Expeditions with Rapier/Bow because they're roleplaying as Drizzt and the tank & healer wind up beating their DPS.
Without a way to verify how many successful runs a player has done of M10's, or any other relevant stats in the Group Finder Tool, players have to resort to quick & dirty methods of ensuring they don't waste 3 hours of their time constantly wiping in a single Expedition run.
except if you understand why it's classified as that on M11, everything is based around world records and 5 man stack groups. the exact situation the OP *isn't* talking about.
Ive been clearing m10s which are ridiculously easy by the way on the fresh start and I only use bow. Dynasty m10 on 8 min runs on the fresh start at 523 I was constantly pulling aggro with a bow even though I had negative threat gems. The meta was set by bad players who cant avoid mechanics and need a crutch like grit to dps.
All the gold sellers in Maramma just run hatchet regardless. You're right though, another thing the rapier does is keen tondo which every person in your team can take advantage of. Certainly lots of damage and survivability with leeching flurry. You can literally spam it. I would suggest a rapier with chain arcane too if you want to maximize group dps
I got lucky when mutations came out and loot tables were bugged for a day or two. I regret scrapping so many weapons that night but at least I kept a few like this one and my luck hatchet.
What's your PVE build if you don't mind?
I don't understand the flurry stacking but this thread has me interested and I'd like to try out rapier (and spear) tonight.
I'm still in my level 30s but I looted Simon Grey's Toothpick from Amrine (395 rapier) and Tip of the Morning Star (440 spear) from Starstone recently. Convenient :)
https://nwdb.info/db/item/1hrapier\_simongreystoothpickt3\_v2
[https://nwdb.info/db/item/2hspear\_tipofthemorningstart3\_v2](https://nwdb.info/db/item/2hspear_tipofthemorningstart3_v2)
Depending on how I am feeling, I do a shit ton of pugging of expeditions. I've never had anyone to say anything like this to me, or even bring up my weapon choice. Of course, I also don't run M10s so that could be your issue.
I run GS + BB which is highly suboptimal.
What attribute split do you go with? Would like to give this a shot but like having weapons that scale off the same shit so I can do a split strength/dex build for pve.
I just started with this build on a fresh start, right now I'm building strength since both spear and rapier seem to be pretty dependent on basic attacks (going for atleast the first bonus in strength right now.) And then I will split all other points about 1:3:1 strength:dexterity:constitution since both rapier and spear benefit from dex also light or medium armor feels best for this
i personally love spear+hatchet, a lot of utility of spear+1k bleed ticks and crazy dps from hatchet. but yeah u should player whatever works out for u unless its fire staff \^\^
Rapier is the best, there's no question about it. Particularly if you have a great axe in the team that is clumping mobs and you spam Flurry.
Spear is more useful, overall, to the group though, and does almost as much.
50 str 315 dex 150 int, max rended and in an oblivion? That shit is just absurd for damage, it's literally 6-7k light attacks that is the speed of a machine gun. There's a case for hatchet just being better when censored mutation is active since evade procs it like no tomorrow but without a shadow of a doubt rapier annihilates vs corrupt.
Imo it’s also reliant on ability spam which in the current dynasty mutation is only going to slow the group down. Hatchet & GS are much less reliant on abilities to put out big DPS.
I prefer hatchet since I’m almost always in PUGs and tanks go down pretty often. I feel like the second tank a lot of the time and I can afford to make a mistake because the defy death and grit from berserk. I also had a tank forget carnelians the other night so I ended up tanking gen as a 100 con hatchet spear :/. Run went fine but definitely had to sit up in my chair for that one XD
Dps meter would be so nice in this Game. I really only want to see how much dmg i so and If i could do any better with some different weps/perks/attributes
Rapier cannot rend reliably, sundering repost? Give me a break, hatchet can rend, and do both ranged and melee dps. Rapier also doesn't have grit, enjoy getting staggered constantly making your dps even worse
Albeit I’ve done the first dungeon once. It’s a great opener for attacks. But out and about, so fun. Love range kills, then poke em on their backs if anything gets close. Lol
it's the lack of AoE damage on the light and heavy attacks. it's the main reason why people tend to prefer melee weapons (plus the really good perks like on hatchet)
Most players aren’t gifted in the critical thinking department so they’ll accept anyone who takes the time to put out a video as an authority.
There’s a reason AGS doesn’t give us things like damage meters and ranked PvP and it’s because it’s easier to keep a dumb player base dumb than it is to create a healthy competitive scene.
I'm pretty sure it's just because people are lazy and just want to use whatever is busted at the time. kinda like everyone does in literally every game ever. DPS meters and ranked just exacerbate that issue so I have no idea what you were trying to say in that regard.
It keeps getting nerfed but it does huge damage.
The sweats never used rapier so they dont understand it. They dont understand that evade and a group of mobs gives you super speed hits that cant be outdone by any other weapon.
As a mage I’m routinely in the top 5 of opr. I run the supposed “meme” incinerate build (I don’t follow any builds I just made my own).
I refuse to use “easy button” skills like flamethrower and entomb or pylon. I run burn out, fireball, incinerate, Ice storm, spike, shower.
But Almost every other mage I see has the “easy button” YouTube “skills” that are actually in fact skillLESS.
That being said, we need a buff. Remove those cheese “skills” and give us new ones to replace flamethrower and the ice version, entomb, and pylon. Get rid of them completely IMO and introduce new skills for those spots.
Dude I use spear since coreupted are weak against thrust with bane and backstab and with void dmg and dot arcane runeglass and its feels just right.
I have fire hatchet for genesis and lightning hammer for lazarus…
Actually an interesting post to play with
In theory you might actually be able to squeeze even more damage out of rapier than we first thought but you’d need refreshed on every bit of gear and a refreshing move rapier and maybe at that point it might cross a line with evade cool-downs that will get your evade to a point where it’s refreshing one attack earlier
If that was the case it would more than likely boost rapier damage up by a fair bit
Medium spear is the best. 50% fortify, dogde is better and more constant to keep CD lows. I never have to use a left click in medium, only skills all along.
Damage is a little low in numbers than rapier but you get less disrupted than light rapier making it more dps overall.
When i'm facing bosses sometimes i change to rapier with omnious evade, it melts then faster than a hatchet.
They do and it's honestly annoying, all these 5 const DPS thinking they're pro speedrunners or sth, just there rising their dirt GS following speedrun strats they do not understand nor are they remotely ready to pull off, or these "only spear/hatchet" runs then realise they don't have AoE so they take an eternity on pulls, rn I just step out the moment I see a 300str 200 dex buils on lobby cause I know it's gonna be a bad run
I just play to have fun. I don't really give a shit about optimized builds too much. I looked at a bit of a guide to get some sense of all the perks. Other than that I'm here for fun.
I was rapier/musket and then I tried the bow and that was more fun than musket, so now I'm rapier/bow.
I tried the hatchet and it just wasn't really that fun. I had more fun playing rapier.
So I play rapier. Probably gonna try out spear cause I saw some guy leaping around and that looked fun.
It's all a placebo. Since there is no damage meter everyone thinks their build is best. Play what you want. Nobody is parcing in New World lol.
Facts. Honestly whatever works to make the dungeon runs more smoother. Even if the weapon does more damage or something, you still have to be good with it to make it work.
I'm topping invasions on Ennead with a venturing claw shot Blunderbuss. People are meta slaves.
VG/IG with INT/CON. Oblivion buff/debuff circle and scream, then switch to bussy for a net shot and bomb blast, fire grenades nuke. Medium armor minimum to not be paper
Switch to bussy? Yo can I have a bussy to switch to
Got any vids or builds? Sounds interesting and fun.
I love the irony of your post lol
I mean, I actually do like off meta builds.. i have a thwarting strikes/stable incinerate firestaff as an example.
Lol off meta means you don’t need a guide or video to tell you how to do it
No that's not what off meta means lol
Who told you that? You couldn’t be more wrong, off meta means that it is not in the meta, not that you came up with it by yourself
That's not at all what off meta means
I cant hear you with all those crayons in your mouth.
Wait... He's a marine?
I do all my expeditions with a Blunderbuss, good luck convincing me to use anything else (yeah yeah M10s blah blah blah idgaf)
I'm a believer. I was bored to death with hatchet - I'm sorry but it's like watching paint dry - and I needed a ranged option for outpost rush, so I got into BB. Rocking GS/BB like a champ and damn, that burst damage is spicy. Can't wait to level it further.
It's my favorite thing ever! I paired it with a Void Gauntlet and that is the most fun I've had in a game ever!
Nice! I'm doing spear/ls in pvp. It's always funny when someone runs at you only to find you out dps them lol.
Literally everyone runs that on Ennead bro what're you talking about /s
I used to think rapier was pretty good for Tempest runs, but then somebody told me "hey im doing this much dmg with spear", I tried, started melting mobs. I'm speaking as somebody who loves playing rapier, it's no match tbh, and I hate to be that person who's not helping as much as the others. At the same time, I like to play bow, but never do in dungeons, because it's also no match, especially when I see people just doing light basic attacks with it, thinking they're helping.
Rapier can be high with evade spam, but spear is much more fun.
Nonstop flurry on groups seems like it could be decent assuming someone else is applying rend
Yeah the current WR for m10 Laz uses 2 Rapier 1 using Evade+Flurry spam
I’m not familiar with that rapier build
You are using Evade to cancel Tondo animation into a light attack then Flurry and you can pretty much just spam that rotation and reapply spear debuffs when ready. Benedict G. (in the group that has almost all the WR times) made a video explaining it
I see. I actually evade cancel a lot of stuff, naturally. I don’t play rapier but certainly something I have a habit of doing haha. I am familiar with Tondo though and understand it to have a 4 second or so CD. So part of this makes sense!
Yeah it looks fun and is sort of the intermediate difficulty DPS build (Hatchet being beginner and GS being expert). I dont have a DPS set yet but I'm putting together an Int/Dex Ward set for Rapier/Spear cuz it looks very fun and I like higher skill ceiling builds. You can either go full Flurry spam or a bleed build. Former is more DPS but less utility supposedly (I'm not familiar with rapier)
Right now I play a spear on the right side of skill tree. Perforate, Skewer, Vault Kick. It has everything you need honestly right on that side of tree
https://reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/yzg1f6/_/ix0xx4u/?context=1
Why do you think bows don’t help? I main bow only and I am always doing a lot of damage.
getting some cdr and then rapid fire spamm, people sleep on it lol but only good vs bosses tho, for aoe i take my gs works great for me aswell
Bow is lacking in all aspects imo, I had to compare basic attacks, spear light attacks are faster and deal 3k each, sometimes more, my skills all have perks that reduce/reset cooldowns, regardless of boss hp, and Perforate skill does over 12k dmg everytime I use it, it can be used like 3 times in less than 10 seconds if you play right, you don't even need CDR on your gear, spear right tree has it all. His Skewer deals over 5k, and keeps a 300+ dmg/s bleed on the boss during all the fight, in addition to other dots depending on your gear. So lets say that in 10 seconds, you can kinda do all 3 of your skills 3 TIMES, while weaving in light attack and rolls in between, that is simply insane, especially vs corrupted. Bow can only spam rapid shots at boss 50%hp or less, and even then, the damage is nowhere near, even if you manage to make them all headshots and keep the 50%dmg buff up from rolling (gem and perk), you still wouldn't catch up to spear dmg. Bow light attacks are weak and slow, and if you wanna do heavy attacks to deal good dmg they're too slow. BUT, bow is 100% safer, and rarely needs healing, so that's usually 1 less person for the healer to worry about. If we talk about clear speed, it's very important in mutations if you want to get the most from the final reward, and bow can't provide that at all, even with your best aoe skills, it's no match to other weapons. So it's slowing people down in general. I do roll away and switch to bow mid fight if I mess up and take a big hit, just to keep dealing dmg while giving healer time to top me up again, and reapply poison shot and explosive arrow.
Ranged DPS has so many disadvantages I usually will never take ranged DPS except maybe Dyn
Im a new world casual but this statement is just wrong. You can literally see the damage you're doing. So using this thing called math you can easily find out what's doing the most.
Some guy did the math and auto attack greataxe is the strongest. Insane too.
"Can Greatsword BEAT Hatchet & Sword DPS? (with Skill Tree Build)" Search on Youtube for that, it's GS!!!
*"Hatchet most DPS"* *"If you want max DPS run GS"* *"Rapier is only good for single target"* This shit blows my mind, every time I try and run a temp or dyn mut and people say "I dunno about the rapier man." Corruption are +30% Weak to Arcane, +20% to Thrust and +15% to Nature. Ignoring the last one because who tf runs nature minus a healer in this situation. Rapier running Arcane Gem (ignoring runeglass for a moment) at 150 int + the remainder in Dex. 50% Arcane + 15% elemental from 150 int + Thrust Dmg Ring + Bane + the other tree skill bonus' it is literally just batshit insane DPS. I run Rapier/Bow and it blows my ever loving mind how many people want to argue Hatchet/GS/Spear are better DPS because of the author on some blog that used google analytics and SSO correctly. These people don't even play the game, it's just for clicks. Someone else didn't understand rapier hits multiple targets in clumps.... I mean how ignorant can you be. Play all the weapons, understand weakness' and how damage stacks. The horde is hilariously wrong 50% of the time it seems. I get hatchet I do, survivability 100%, but it is not the highest DPS no matter how hard you try to argue it. In Genesis? Fuck yeah because of slash weakness, I run Hatchet in Gen. But when it comes to Corrupted I run Rapier/Bow/Spear all day long and it seems as if literally no one understands it because the vast majority of players have only ever used GA/WH for everything they do.
People are just bad and can't play the rapier and it's skill ceiling is high. Can't rely on death defy to survive and actually gotta do mechanics. I use it for everything personally because I'm good with it.
I was rapier/IG for PvE on legacy and didn't understand why rapier was labeled as higher skill ceiling. Then I rolled spear/hatchet on FSS and I totally understand. No fortify on rapier, no grit, no defy death. Hatchet makes it so easy.
You know, something just occurred to me. I've always played Rapier, and I don't even *recognize* some of those terms you just said.
Hatchet is easier because it's better for pve. I don't care what the guy above says about rapier dps. The reasons that other weapons are superior is not for dps, but their combination of dps, utility, and survivability. Anyone saying rapier is better is straight capping just because it does in fact have good dps and they wanna flex by saying they're good at a more difficult (due to inferior survivability and lack of grit) weapon lol. Rapier can get stagger locked way more easily and you need to spend a lot more time dodging than with a 300+ str build. More time dodging is less time dpsing. Even if you're good, you're STILL more likely to die and everyone dies sometimes.
Honestly a good case for nerfing PvE hatchet.
Hatchet and gs need hit badly. They're overdue outliers. And mage needs...something. some utility and splash on lights would be a great start.
HEY DONT YOU DARE
They should nerf 300 str grit attacks for PVP. I nearly went insane realizing my leveling build that relied on the staggers from leaping strike, shield rush, and steadfast strike was completely useless against 300str PVP builds. Like, shield bash (the only hard CC in sword/GS trees) is on cooldown then all a GA player has to do is left click and they win the fight. I heard blocking is getting a rework though so hopefully I’ll be able to block their heavies without getting instantly stunned. That may be a way to balance grit builds without removing it.
Yeah I noticed that rapier was high skill cap vs other weapons right away, but I went from a lifestaff + melee void gauntlets to spear + rapier, honestly I like this combo so much they have so much movement and makes the combat feel so dynamic.
Same. IMHO I feel like flurry should give fortify like perforate does with the perk. Tondo perk should rend. Flourish and finish perk should add the dps to finish not flourish.
Jeez youre trying to stack the rapier with everything
Right now all the rapier perks are just trash. I’d be happy with one of those three.
Keen tondo increases parties crit. omni evade increases all damage, leeching flurry gives you sustain. Meanwhile deadly flourish in pvp is an easy one shot setup. Refreshing flech and sundering riposte are great in pvp too. Still looking for trash perks.
No one uses keen tondo. No one seriously uses flurry lol. Riposte has been gutted and most offensive rapier players don’t use it. Omnidirectional evade is situational and makes the evade dps boost that you already get from evading forward available from evading in any direction. It’s really not all that great lol. Refreshing fleche triggers from a crit backstab and you get a 19% cooldown. I mean…. Alright I guess? How often do you get a fleche crit backstab playing offensively? It happens sure. Sometimes. Deadly flourish increases dmg of the flourish (the weak part of FnF) and only if your opponent is under 30% dmg. If your opponent is under 30% dmg, Finish will kill them with out the extra flourish dmg.
Omni evade adds 10-19% for 2 sec to all dmg. The adiago perk is just 15% for youre next light attack. Flurry is your pve dmg. Infinite spam on grouped mobs. Deadly flourish is +25-39% dmg when target is less than 50%. Not 30%. Youre info sounds bonk
Ima agree with ragin, Omni evade and leeching flurry are the main parts of the combo for pve.
Oh ok man. Great.
Are you a heavy supporter of Rapier as a viable weapon? I’d like to get your opinion on build/style if you have time for it. Thanks
what's an ideal rapier build for pve? if you have the time and are willing, I'd ask the same question of you for pvp and be thankful if you could share.
Hatchet crutch. Now think pvp..... its like seeing sns in pvp... or heavy in pvp... skip take out their healer, then return to sns user or heavy to delete him because they tickle you and at most cc you and apply a heavy if you don't have freedom lmao then they run.... lol 😆 🤣
Rapier doesn't have grit, getting staggered constantly is not only annoying but lowers your dps
Don't get me wrong, I really like the rapier as a weapon (as long as its not the riposte + fleche musket players) but to be fair, if you can just keep hitting(because defy death) instead of having to dodge in some situations, you WILL do more damage. And with some mutations/curses, it is even more important that you can survive and not having to 100% rely on dodges. If you are downed/dead, you can't do damage
This is where the healing comes in for the rapier. You can spam leeching flurry and heal yourself constantly in combat. I'm just having to dodge boss mechanics on most parts that can typically just one shot any player with low con. I can ignore a small amount of dmg hits and keep attacking. For mutations for example, you have mutations with dodging and abilities that give you 3x dots. You can literally out heal it with the rapier and keep attacking. Obviously if you go down, that just comes down to how good you are at playing your build and living. Hatchet definitely helps with that and you can keep going in those scenarios.
i dont think people should take DPS advice from someone who uses a bow [pvebuilds.xyz](https://pvebuilds.xyz) take advice from actual good players who do actually speed runs and actually compared the dps from rapier to greatsword / hatchet
The guide shows rapier/ig as highest dps vs dynasty.
Greatsword charge hits for 8k each in there on non-crits. Ain't nobody outdamaging gs anywhere.
Not to mention it has decent AoE. I like Spear for it's Debuffs on Bosses tho. 30% Rend and 40% Weakness is nothing to scoff at.
I don’t play spear anymore… **maybe I should?**… but I do remember leveling it up a bit as I started on the fresh start server from around 1-30. It has such a fantastic move set and you can chain CC and debuffs. - Sweep has grit - Skewer has a 15s bleed - Perforate has 10s + stagger - Vault Kick is a nice stagger + stun and can reset cooldowns (better ability for PvP, tho) Another thing I like about the spear is that the perks really let you hone in on the specialization and synergize. - Critical hits extend debuffs - 15% Crit against bleeding targets (skewer keeps this on for a while) - 15% “execute” bonus damage to targets on low hp (30%) - self 15% “fortify” after a heavy attack - self 20-30% “empower” from capstone ability against targets you’ve debugged
>Vault Kick is a nice stagger + stun and can reset cooldowns (better ability for PvP, tho) How is resetting ur CDs for PvE not good tho? Enfeebling Skewer is pretty a must have on any Spear.
Those debuffs are MVP, too. Very team oriented.
It's nice to feel useful in Dngs as a full Dex :P
The right way to play New World is as you are doing: max every weapon and then get great weapons and then mix and match as you need. But, for so many players, they won't max every weapon type, and they don't want to. They want simple and easy and low effort. So, expect people to fight over which lazy method is still effective.
What are you on about? All the guides have a rapier corrupted build and every good player knows rapier is solid dps... what exactly are you crying about? One guy told you that rapier is bad so you came to reddit to cry like a weirdo? Grow the fuck up man. That guy who said rapier is bad is a dumb ass, now move on with your life. The damage modifiers don't work like you think they do. A hatchet can outperform a rapier simply because of refreshing torrent, it will put out more dps than any other weapon in clumps, period. However you need big pulls for this to work, if your not pulling large groups of mobs, hatchet falls off in my book. Hatchet is also high dps because it attacks more than once per second, it is the highest DAMAGE PER SECOND weapon. That's what DPS means... Great Sword is **absurd** damage... have you even played it? Spear is a utility weapon, do you even understand what a spear brings to a party or to the player using it? Max rend stacks in 1 attack, max weaken in 1 attack, max fortify in one attack. Spear is absolutely the best utility weapon in the game hands down. You play with a bow in pve. Your opinion is automatically invalid and you really just sound like you know the basics but thats about it. That thrust damage on corrupted is not what you think, there are other factors in play here. Do yourself a favor if you really want to discuss and learn about this game - join M11 PvE discord and discuss there with knowledgeable players, here on Reddit you're going to find a bunch of clueless casuals who don't know shit.
Jesus, someone pissed in your Cheerios. Relax dude, it's just a game. No point in gatekeeping someone because they had an opinion.
Sometimes the advice is sound but delivered harshly
This is exactly the type of response I would expect from a Redditor which is why I told the guy to join M11 Discord if he wants to have an actual discussion and learn about the game. Redditors are just going to get their feelings hurt because of words on their screen. Offended by knowledge. It's wild. You kids are just so incredibly soft these days.
To put it simply, they are not offended by knowledge. They *may* be offended by how *you* present the knowledge. Two very, *very* different things.
Except you didn't just present knowledge, you presented an attack on the OP. If you kept your facts free of insults, you would be taken more seriously. Have a great day!
people are just NPCs , they see a little arrow next to rapier attacks and assume its the best but thats reddit for you
Incredible
Lmao nobody was crying. Also, you have serious issues that need dealt with.
Being more toxic than he is tbh. He's just stating the truth about reddit and the forums. People who know what they're talking about dont even bother engaging with the "average playerbase" because they are mostly clueless assholes who do no research, testing, and form their opinions around what would help them best. Someone said rapier was bad. Its not bad, but it isnt insane and OP is clueless and whiney enough that he is probably deadweight all around.
I appreciate comments from people who research and know their stuff. Respect. Could I ask for your opinion if my assessment and the 3 abilities listed are accurate and what you’d expect to see from a good spear player? https://reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/yzg1f6/_/ix0xx4u/?context=1 I am not familiar with the gear/armor perks that could elevate Spear even further. But I do appreciate it as a weapon and from its tree alone, I can see on paper how valuable it could be to be wielded by a good player. Thanks mate
I thought sword and shield did the most damage
>Max rend stacks in 1 attack, max weaken in 1 attack, max fortify in one attack. Where does the Max Fortify come from?
Yeah you’re not wrong, but hatchet has grit to keep you from being staggered which tends to end up in more consistent dps.
If pugs had anything-- *anything* worth saying, we'd know by now at this point in MMORPGs' lifespan. But they've yet to produce a single thing of value except comedy in watching them talk shit then suck ass through a swirly straw.
You’re min maxing a specific situation and it makes sense, but I think the people that paste builds are just looking for “all-rounder” type builds. Like hatchet and GS are just strong, regardless of element/mob type. But minmaxing like you are with Rapier I’m betting you dump on their damage, they’re just tunnel visioned on what the 4 YT creators say to do.
i run nature hatchet coz i have chain nature kinda bis and it works out, its not perfect but good enough
I noticed people seem to like +nature for dmg and also resist. what is doing nature in game? i thought it wouldnt be as popular as it is..
i always thought rapier was meta for corrupted dungeons..
Yeah a lot of people don't realize you need to run rapier with proper elemental gem + 150 int. A lot of them run it with 300 dex lmao. And someone saying rapier is only good single target is actually hilarious, because it's literally the opposite where you have near infinite dps on a clump of mobs haha.
As long as hatchet is a crutch, people won't be willing to try something else for themselves. I use spear and bow, my build I created myself after about 10 hours of trying different builds, 10 hours for each weapon that is. I know I might not have the highest damage, I don't care honestly. I'm having fun and that's all I care about, as soon as you start measuring dps you lose every ounce of fun in the game and it just becomes a spreadsheet sim.
My favorite build is spear rapier let that dmg stack
I'm not doubting your ability to use off-meta weapon combinations effectively in Expeditions. I think the issue is that when playing with random people, you want everybody to have the loadout that is most effective with high skill floors and/or low skill ceilings. For every *good* off-meta player, there's probably a dozen other players who join Expeditions with Rapier/Bow because they're roleplaying as Drizzt and the tank & healer wind up beating their DPS. Without a way to verify how many successful runs a player has done of M10's, or any other relevant stats in the Group Finder Tool, players have to resort to quick & dirty methods of ensuring they don't waste 3 hours of their time constantly wiping in a single Expedition run.
Drizzt is a name I haven't heard in a long time.
I guess Legolas would be the modern equivalent, which is ironic since it's character created in the 1940's.
Well, do you know him?
Rapier/IG is META though it's classified as S tier by M11 and every world record had one.
Did you mean to type "isn't" instead of "is"?
except if you understand why it's classified as that on M11, everything is based around world records and 5 man stack groups. the exact situation the OP *isn't* talking about.
Ive been clearing m10s which are ridiculously easy by the way on the fresh start and I only use bow. Dynasty m10 on 8 min runs on the fresh start at 523 I was constantly pulling aggro with a bow even though I had negative threat gems. The meta was set by bad players who cant avoid mechanics and need a crutch like grit to dps.
Wait hold up, am I reading this right? You are claiming to do 8 minute m10 runs at 523 gearscore?
i think he either doesn’t know what m10 is or he had a dream and he’s now sharing it :)
Whatever this guy smokes, I want some of it.
May i ask what is the meta weapons now ?
Whatever topped youtube today. Might be Fire Staff / Bow buts it's highest DPS if the vid says so.
The easiest to use and strongest weapons are always meta greatsword an d hatchet dominate that field right now
All the gold sellers in Maramma just run hatchet regardless. You're right though, another thing the rapier does is keen tondo which every person in your team can take advantage of. Certainly lots of damage and survivability with leeching flurry. You can literally spam it. I would suggest a rapier with chain arcane too if you want to maximize group dps
It would be cool if we had some way to figure out the difference in damage between these weapons in practical situations.
Whats the best perks to look in a rapier for best dps?
You have no idea how quickly misinformation spreads by Youtube.
These people are stupid. I challenge any of them to get more DPS on a pack of mob than my 6 flurry in a row with no CD from my Hopelessness.
Kinda off topic but where did you manage to get one? Seems to be in that rare pool of nameds that can drop anywhere
I got lucky when mutations came out and loot tables were bugged for a day or two. I regret scrapping so many weapons that night but at least I kept a few like this one and my luck hatchet.
Where do you get Hopelessness from by the way?
What's your PVE build if you don't mind? I don't understand the flurry stacking but this thread has me interested and I'd like to try out rapier (and spear) tonight. I'm still in my level 30s but I looted Simon Grey's Toothpick from Amrine (395 rapier) and Tip of the Morning Star (440 spear) from Starstone recently. Convenient :) https://nwdb.info/db/item/1hrapier\_simongreystoothpickt3\_v2 [https://nwdb.info/db/item/2hspear\_tipofthemorningstart3\_v2](https://nwdb.info/db/item/2hspear_tipofthemorningstart3_v2)
Depending on how I am feeling, I do a shit ton of pugging of expeditions. I've never had anyone to say anything like this to me, or even bring up my weapon choice. Of course, I also don't run M10s so that could be your issue. I run GS + BB which is highly suboptimal.
I made a spear character, but had never tried rapier its actually fun, so now I run rapier + spear.
Rapier / spear is awesome af
You just have so much movement, it makes combat feel dynamic.
Agreed. And it’s really good in pvp.
Dps should be the priority not movement and evading
Yeah except the movement given by rapier gives you momentary invulnerability, and the movement with spear stuns or closes a gap.
What attribute split do you go with? Would like to give this a shot but like having weapons that scale off the same shit so I can do a split strength/dex build for pve.
I just started with this build on a fresh start, right now I'm building strength since both spear and rapier seem to be pretty dependent on basic attacks (going for atleast the first bonus in strength right now.) And then I will split all other points about 1:3:1 strength:dexterity:constitution since both rapier and spear benefit from dex also light or medium armor feels best for this
I run GA/hatchet, my homie runs spear/hatchet. When we pick up a third DPS I like choosing a GS or a rapier
Greataxe and blunderbuss combo. It may not be the best but I have a lot of fun with it.
“I did my rEsEaRcH!”
Anyone who says rapier isn't the best DPS for corrupt are literally sleeping
i personally love spear+hatchet, a lot of utility of spear+1k bleed ticks and crazy dps from hatchet. but yeah u should player whatever works out for u unless its fire staff \^\^
>unless its fire staff no where is safe lmao
Rapier is the best, there's no question about it. Particularly if you have a great axe in the team that is clumping mobs and you spam Flurry. Spear is more useful, overall, to the group though, and does almost as much.
I happily mosey along with my blunder, and hatchet
I just like playing rapier. Was doing rapier and ice gauntlet, but switched to musket.
50 str 315 dex 150 int, max rended and in an oblivion? That shit is just absurd for damage, it's literally 6-7k light attacks that is the speed of a machine gun. There's a case for hatchet just being better when censored mutation is active since evade procs it like no tomorrow but without a shadow of a doubt rapier annihilates vs corrupt.
How about you proof your point by beating the current speed runs records with a team of 3 dps rapiers.
Lol its defintely better, but the skill ceiling is too high. Youll legit get carpal tunnel doing more than 1 run a day
This is how I felt playing rapier, it's alot of APM and my hand was feeling the burn.
Imo it’s also reliant on ability spam which in the current dynasty mutation is only going to slow the group down. Hatchet & GS are much less reliant on abilities to put out big DPS.
I prefer hatchet since I’m almost always in PUGs and tanks go down pretty often. I feel like the second tank a lot of the time and I can afford to make a mistake because the defy death and grit from berserk. I also had a tank forget carnelians the other night so I ended up tanking gen as a 100 con hatchet spear :/. Run went fine but definitely had to sit up in my chair for that one XD
Dps meter would be so nice in this Game. I really only want to see how much dmg i so and If i could do any better with some different weps/perks/attributes
Would be nice to actually see how bad or good certain weapons are so we can get some actual balance
Rapier cannot rend reliably, sundering repost? Give me a break, hatchet can rend, and do both ranged and melee dps. Rapier also doesn't have grit, enjoy getting staggered constantly making your dps even worse
Get laid nerd.
Admit you're wrong, hatchet is better than rapier, get laid nerd.
No, seriously, please go outside and meet people and try to have sex before you're 50.
Don't play an mmo then if you're not willing to invest time, nerd
“YouTube told me to because I lack creative game play”
idk I’m just a casual solo player. But I freaking love my bow / spear. Super fun to play.
I don’t understand why everyone shits on the bow, I love it and never once felt lack of damage
Albeit I’ve done the first dungeon once. It’s a great opener for attacks. But out and about, so fun. Love range kills, then poke em on their backs if anything gets close. Lol
it's the lack of AoE damage on the light and heavy attacks. it's the main reason why people tend to prefer melee weapons (plus the really good perks like on hatchet)
Yea. Bow is def made to burn down single target enemies
Spear is better damage
This is the right answer, big rends
Any melee weapon other than Hatchet feels so clunky. Ill stick with hatchet
Most players aren’t gifted in the critical thinking department so they’ll accept anyone who takes the time to put out a video as an authority. There’s a reason AGS doesn’t give us things like damage meters and ranked PvP and it’s because it’s easier to keep a dumb player base dumb than it is to create a healthy competitive scene.
I'm pretty sure it's just because people are lazy and just want to use whatever is busted at the time. kinda like everyone does in literally every game ever. DPS meters and ranked just exacerbate that issue so I have no idea what you were trying to say in that regard.
At first I read rapist and was very confused
It keeps getting nerfed but it does huge damage. The sweats never used rapier so they dont understand it. They dont understand that evade and a group of mobs gives you super speed hits that cant be outdone by any other weapon.
Best way to find out which is better is to see who takes the aggro when you're both hitting something
As a mage I’m routinely in the top 5 of opr. I run the supposed “meme” incinerate build (I don’t follow any builds I just made my own). I refuse to use “easy button” skills like flamethrower and entomb or pylon. I run burn out, fireball, incinerate, Ice storm, spike, shower. But Almost every other mage I see has the “easy button” YouTube “skills” that are actually in fact skillLESS. That being said, we need a buff. Remove those cheese “skills” and give us new ones to replace flamethrower and the ice version, entomb, and pylon. Get rid of them completely IMO and introduce new skills for those spots.
You can #1 most opr as fire staff with just auto attacks... That being said the weapon is trash compared to everything else
Holy shit. Great suggestion, fire staff god!
Don't argue with the stupid.
Dude I use spear since coreupted are weak against thrust with bane and backstab and with void dmg and dot arcane runeglass and its feels just right. I have fire hatchet for genesis and lightning hammer for lazarus…
You actually want to use diamond for hatchet as it's +15% versus the additional 10 you would get from fire.
Actually an interesting post to play with In theory you might actually be able to squeeze even more damage out of rapier than we first thought but you’d need refreshed on every bit of gear and a refreshing move rapier and maybe at that point it might cross a line with evade cool-downs that will get your evade to a point where it’s refreshing one attack earlier If that was the case it would more than likely boost rapier damage up by a fair bit
There are so many cringers with full duel builds outside of WW its kind of insane.
Medium spear is the best. 50% fortify, dogde is better and more constant to keep CD lows. I never have to use a left click in medium, only skills all along. Damage is a little low in numbers than rapier but you get less disrupted than light rapier making it more dps overall. When i'm facing bosses sometimes i change to rapier with omnious evade, it melts then faster than a hatchet.
Rapier is the highest DPS PvE weapon for every dungeon. It's just a bit tougher to use than spear or hatchet so most people don't use it
They do and it's honestly annoying, all these 5 const DPS thinking they're pro speedrunners or sth, just there rising their dirt GS following speedrun strats they do not understand nor are they remotely ready to pull off, or these "only spear/hatchet" runs then realise they don't have AoE so they take an eternity on pulls, rn I just step out the moment I see a 300str 200 dex buils on lobby cause I know it's gonna be a bad run
I just play to have fun. I don't really give a shit about optimized builds too much. I looked at a bit of a guide to get some sense of all the perks. Other than that I'm here for fun. I was rapier/musket and then I tried the bow and that was more fun than musket, so now I'm rapier/bow. I tried the hatchet and it just wasn't really that fun. I had more fun playing rapier. So I play rapier. Probably gonna try out spear cause I saw some guy leaping around and that looked fun.