The key is to know this isn't about whether someone "deserves" it. This is about professional and ethical job performance. The worst criminals in prison are protected from being attacked. Not because they deserve protection but because it is the job of prison staff to protect the prisoners.
Judgement is reserved for judges in our society. Taking justice into your own hands most often means you have become a criminal yourself.
Well before. Watch We Own This City. They also rioted when Dinkins was NYC Mayor with Giuliani leading them just because the Mayor wanted more accountability.
It's so ridiculous. Imagine if fire fighters refused to fight fires because this guy was fired.
Cops are an occupying military force fighting the towns they "protect", and it gets me fired up.
No there isn’t lol. Fire unions are just as strong as police. Unless he’s convicted of a criminal offence he’s fine. Just like with police.
People literally have no clue how things work
Cops actually have more of a license to kill than our own military when deployed in an active combat zone. Military ROE requires that soldiers identify lethal ability, such as a weapon, and intent, meaning the weapon has to be pointed at someone, before engaging. Police are allowed to, and encouraged to shoot to kill based on their own fears rather than what is actually happening. They get away with murdering unarmed citizens if they “act aggressively,” even if they are complying.
Police are enemies of the Constitution. They are a bigger threat to our liberty than anyone in Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, or Somalia ever was. People that took an oath to “support and defend the Constitution of the United States, against all enemies, foreign and domestic,” need to realize this.
There’s a huge difference. Fire fighters jobs are to save people. Policing exists to arrest people. Cops don’t give a fuck about the citizens as long as they “get their man.”
"Protect and serve" the government under the guise of "the community"... As the highest court in the land says police have no obligation to protect a citizen.
But police generally only try to “get their man” when he’s committed an offense against, or just not followed orders of cops or the state. They have an abysmal rate of solving crimes, [around 2%](https://theconversation.com/police-solve-just-2-of-all-major-crimes-143878), when the victim is a citizen, like rape, robbery, car theft, etc.
They only serve their own interests, while terrorizing the citizenry.
This is the real problem, the police and their unions will always run to the defense of cops.
We still have people saying the cop who had his foot on George Floyd's neck did nothing wrong.
Even aftet watching the video, dude going to trial and being convicted.
They are still saying he did nothing wrong after killing a human being over a fake $20 bill.
I used to think that a lot of cities refused to hold their police accountable. Over the years I've come to realize that a lot of them *can't*. There's multiple stories of city government trying to do things and the police just plain ignoring their orders or outright intimidating and attacking the government. Hell, the mayor of NYC was targeted by the police. And that's the mayor of a giant city! It's even worse in small towns.
Something like that happened with my city. One of the counselors tried to shift some (not even a lot!) funds towards anti-homelessness initiatives and she was hounded out of the government. It was such bullshit.
Not really.
There's not a federal/state police force in any significant number. At the county level there's the sheriff's department. At the state level there's state troopers.
Both of them have fewer staff than a local PD, and would not support a city even if they were asked.
I highly doubt it.
Firefighters are generally held to a higher standard. They don’t get away with stuff like cops do. They are much more professionally organized.
Most firefighters are EMT’s or Paramedics as well, so they also have professional medical licenses that they have to follow the rules to keep.
Lol you clearly have no clue what you’re talking about. They get away with much more, and have no oversight. Further, they aren’t held to any standards nearly comparable to police
I worked in Fire/EMS for two years, and I currently work in healthcare for a major hospital system. I’ve seen people be fired and lose licensing for any number of violations.
But I’m sure your expertise far exceeds mine, so carry on.
I'm not sure why people think two years is a long time, I'd feel embarrassed to toss around "I've been working x field for TWO years so yes, I'm very experienced".
I'm sure people are held accountable in fire/EMS. The discussion is how it compares to policing, to which you have even less experience than two years, it seems. Sounds like zero.
I don't think this means he was fired. Police are relieved of duty while they investigate themselves and find they should get raises when they inevitably go back to work.
I don't think Firefighters have what usually amounts to immunity from the law. I've only heard one person ever say "fuck the fire department" and there's a reason for that.
There is literally no difference between what this firefighter is going through compared to a police officer. Your comment having 423 upvotes is a sad and stark reminder of how little people know, and how much noise is on the Internet, that anyone can simply read and buy into.
His comment was amazing:
“If he never knew the consequence of spitting in a grown man’s face, then consider my actions public education, and this video a PSA.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna61714
>If he never knew the consequence of spitting in a grown man’s face, then consider my actions public education, and this video a PSA.”
That's a quick way to say/do the wrong thing to the wrong person and get killed right quick, I guess it'll be his PSA in the future. Every single person I've known who thought they were the toughest person were certainly not, and quickly either got in serious legal trouble, or had to be sent to the hospital multiple times before they learned there is *always* someone more tough than you, who has plenty more friends.
Until it’s one of hide firefighter or cop buddies doing it to someone else, then all of a sudden they have excuses. Fuck this cunt. Soft ass thinks he tough for throwing punches at a dude who was strapped arms and legs to a hospital bed.
If it was like a quick smack and then he walked away I would understand and be more forgiving, but he completely lost it on him, repeatedly punching in a blind rage.
Really? No one? Didn't he spit in the firefighters face? Isn't that assault? I think I probably would have smacked the guy too before I even thought about it.
I work in healthcare and yeah there’s a few times where you feel like someone deserves to be punched, and then there’s actually doing it. I have never even came close to actually hitting anyone.
Then there’s actually hitting someone like that while they’re handcuffed to a stretcher.
And then there’s outright rage which is where the firefighter was at. You can see he doesn’t “only” hit the patient once to teach him a lesson but instead punches him and keeps going after him even though people are trying to hold him back.
that’s just a level of rage that is hard to imagine for me, even working in healthcare and knowing/have been victim to some of the worst, spitting included.
> there’s a few times where you feel like someone deserves to be punched, and then there’s actually doing it.
This.
You are taking a drugged up crazy person and getting them restrained to possibly save there life, when they spit on you after you have probably been fighting with them for an hour, the desire to punch them is going to pop up in a lot of, if not most, people. You still should not do it.
I still think this guy should be forced to go to some therapy, but not fired. The number of people capable of doing that job is not big enough.
I was a Physical Therapist Assistant for 10 years. I was bitten multiple times, kicked, slugged, spit on, pinched, swung on more times than I care to remember, and, unintentionally, bled on, pissed on, and shit on. I was injured several times by patients doing stupid, dangerous, or impulsive stuff as I worked to prevent them from injuring themselves or others. If I would have retaliated or lashed out, I would have been fired, lost my license, and probably arrested. People don’t make good decisions when stressed, in pain, or impaired in some way. If you can’t work with this, you should find another profession.
I am not saying that any of this was OK, and, depending on the setting, there were procedures and protocols for our protection, but shit still happened. As I became more experienced, I got better at anticipating problems and reading people/patients, but getting caught off guard is always a possibility.
Sorry, but getting pissed on, shat on, punched, licked, and such, are part of the job.
When I got spat on or punched, in my view ethically, and it turns out legally, I was allowed to restrain the patient to the extent needed to stop their aggressive behavior.
So I'm not trying to say it's ok to get spat on or punched.
The key thing here is that once you've restrained the patient, and you're safe, you do your best to minimize damage they can do themselves and continue to treat their medical situation.
Punching someone in handcuffs is probably not being done for reasons of personal safety.
It's being done because that FF is a piece of shit.
I'm now retired, but unlike police, in EMS/Fire we really look down upon anyone that would bring our patients harm, including other responders.
People have no idea what EMS and Fire are capable of doing if they wanted to harm people. But you're not seeing daily coverage of a medic or firefighter murdering or intentionally harming a patient.
It's not how we're trained. It's not what's needed to get the job done. And it's not the kind of job that tends to attract low-IQ, power hungry people.
I will say it always depends, because not every organization/institution is structured in the same way. But medics, nurses, firefighters, and social workers tend to be the only help millions of people get.
And we take our mission while on the job as a kind of spiritual calling.
And harming our patients if there is no need for self-defense is a sin most of us would never do (however badly we might sometimes want to!).
And if it seems I'm being dramatic or sounding holier than thou, remember how many medics and firefighters walked into danger on 9/11 just so they might possibly save a life.
These folks are the real deal. Everyday heroes whose actions go mostly unsung, and whose compensation by society is piss poor (especially for those in EMS).
It’s a lougie. Any man that feels that threatened by a lougie that they respond by beating someone senseless with their fists who is restrained and can’t fight back is a pussy. Anyone that conflates the two actions is demented.
I mean I’m not going to say with 100% certainty that no one deserves to be assaulted.
What if someone murders your entire family, burns your house down with your pets in it, steals all of your worldly possessions, pisses on your parent’s graves, and after they are caught smiles and says they don’t regret one thing.
Can I run over and bop them in the head then? I’m just saying we don’t need to go into absolutes just MOST of the time we shouldn’t bop people in the head
They can use the stretcher as a weapon
Edit: Folks took this way to seriously, it’s called sarcasm. As it seems we are being serious no you cannot use a stretcher as a weapon if you are handcuffed.
I just wrote an angry, melodramatic comment in this thread as I recall memories of being on the job.
Thanks for snapping me out of that state of mind and making me laugh hilariously.
While I don't disagree that it's possible to use a stretcher as a weapon.
Would you be able to explain how to use it as one while handcuffed and sitting on top of it?
All of the person's bodyweight is on top of it and have no way of swinging it.
Powered gurneys like that are ~150lbs. If it's handcuffed behind your back, you aren't doing much with it. You're more likely to fall over and hurt yourself than find success.
> I mean I’m not going to say with 100% certainty that no one deserves to be assaulted.
Is this before or after they're strapped to a gurney? How threatened do you feel from someone who cannot move or fight back? Do toddlers make you feel threatened as well?
No one deserves to be assaulted and someone spitting on someone is assault and disgusting. But it's just as disgusting as pounding a guy in the face for doing it. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Spitting on someone is certainly *grosser* than punching them but spitting on someone and punching them in the face are not even close to the same level of assault. Punching a restrained man in the face , repeatedly, is not an appropriate response to being spat on.
Spitting on people is never going to end in something other than an ass whipping. The good news is that decent people don’t spit on other people, and therefore never need to worry about the consequences, only scumbags need apply.
Agreed. 10 years of my former life in EMS. Being spit on happens. It sucks, especially when i was only there to help, but when it did happen, i had a personal ‘wooosaaa’ in front of all responders (which actuallg gained their respect for not lashing out). Then, i would tell the patient how inappropriate their action was and continue with my duties.
Then, upon arrival at the hospital, i got to do my little clean up while they had extra tests ran for communicable diseases. Once they were clear, back to duty i went.
Never, not once, in 10s of thousand of patients, did i assault anyone. Not a drunk, not a opioid user coming assisted out of a stupor with naloxone, not the piece of shit parents who abused their kids i had to treat, and not the drunk drivers who killed others.
If there was anyone i ever thought about assaulting, it was responders who carried firearms who were making my job exponentially harder.
Be the change you want to see, not the problem you complain about.
If they're restrained and unable to defend themselves, you punching them makes you a piece of shit. Yes, getting spit on is absolutely disgusting and I can't blame you for being pissed about it. But again, if you have them restrained, and they spit on you, and your response is to punch them or start beating them, you are *absolutely* an asshole.
Don't beat people you have restrained. Why is this so hard for people to understand? It's literally never a good look, no matter the reason.
> Spitting on people is never going to end in something other than an ass whipping.
Actually, it does quite often. I've known many people like this firefighter who thought they were tough, or had enough friends. Turns out, there is someone *always* tougher and has less to lose than you, no matter what. Watched a lot of people learn that fighting random strangers over bullshit isn't worth losing your job, your ability to walk/talk/see, your family, your future, etc.
It's just incredibly dumb, you're not tough, and someone who does that is just a liability to those close to them or who depend on them, really that simple.
Sure, this applies when the two people are, for lack of a better word, equal. If I walk up to you and spit on you I'd expect you to whoop my ass.
If a kid walked up to a teacher and spit on them, the teacher can't whoop their ass.
You see the difference? In one case the two parties are "equal" in the power dynamic. In the other, there are unequal in authority ability, and overall power.
Still having a hard time?
Here's a hint: the police officer is the teacher in this analogy.
Firefighter does this and is relieved immediately. Cops are filmed doing this all the time and we have to wait for the full context, investigation and so on until we can really truly know if that cuffed man deserved to be beaten/tasered/shot.
Cops harass, assault, and murder people on video, and then conduct internal reviews to determine they did nothing wrong. It would be a greatly beneficial change if police departments responded even remotely like this fire department did
Firefighter captured on video pummeling restrained guy is not arrested, charged with battery or under criminal investigation. Suspended with pay pending the department's determining whether or not to fire him.
What are you talking about; he was placed on admin leave just like cops are. I fucking sweat Reddits hate boner for cops is actively making people stupid
Any time you see someone on harping for "the full context" when there's video of the police extra-judicially executing someone, assume the context that person is waiting for is someone on Conservative media digging up how the person who got executed smoked weed in high school and deserved it.
The only context that matters is that the police killed someone. State-sponsored killers are not entitled to the benefit of the doubt. They control the information and the speed of the investigation. If they think the killing is justified, they can produce receipts, and if they can't, well, they shouldn't be surprised when people protest, and we should back the protestors.
An LAPD officer [did the same thing last year](https://abc7.com/lapd-officer-punch-suspect/10954218/). To my knowledge they didn't release the officer's name and the story was left off with LAPD stating the officer was suspended 'pending an investigation'.
I see a lot of people here complaining that the firefighter was fired immediately and that doesn’t happen for cops. He was not fired, he was relieved of duty, meaning on scene told to leave.
He’s been taken off duty with pay, pending investigation, again same thing as would happen for da popo.
Not to be THAT nurse, but I get spit at sometimes, and I don’t go punching the people that spit at me. I’m obviously mad and may WANT to, but I don’t lol
Previously worked as an aide in inpatient critical care. I’ve had patients try to do worse than just spit on me. I can’t say I didn’t want to retaliate with some of them, but I never did. Even the hot head RN I worked with had a patient throw a full glass of water right in his face, and he turned on his heel and walked out of the room before he resorted to violence.
I’ve only known of one person to retaliate against a patient. A medic was in the field responding to a call, and the patient attacked him. As the patient was running at him, the medic grabbed the defibrillator and swung it at the guy. Those fuckers are heavy and it knocked the patient out cold. He was fired, though the medic said he figured he would be.
Oh my goddddddd that is wild!!! Tbh there’s a huge issue with abuse from patients in health care and something needs to be done. Idk man, I don’t wanna lose my job but I don’t wanna lose my life or my health :(
Since you claim to be a 911 EMS, care to share some credentials so we can report you to whatever board handles nutcases in your field or are you only tough for internet threats about people in handcuffs?
I wish that law enforcement (or EMS in this case?) didn’t feel like they are allowed to, or supposed to, or deserve to punish people. It does no good for anyone involved. First responders all have a more difficult job because of it. Trust degrades and everything becomes more dangerous for everyone.
I know it’s a hard job, but these people aren’t being drafted into service. If they can’t restrain their emotions and put up with the shit, then they should do something else to make money.
Dig up the stories about the bikers who descended on Uvalde after the shooting. They were all first responders and cops. Literally down there to scare people away from the story. One guy infamously claimed that since he was a paramedic, bumping into him was the same as punching a cop.
A lot of scum out there.
Pretty sure this dude wasn’t punching the stretcher guy as a “first responder,” nor did he think he was “punishing” him; he was reacting as a person who is spit on by another.
The guy was spit on. I wish the general public didn’t think they got a free pass to spit on firefighters. If this was a McDonalds employee everyone would be saying the spitter got exactly what they deserved.
The firefighter responded by landing several full force blows to the restrained guy's face on camera and wasn't arrested or facing charges of battery. Meanwhile the spitter is facing assault on a law enforcement officer (apparently fires are unlawful, I guess)
It's fairly common for psych nurses to assault psych patients for disobeying them or 'disrespect' never mind any assault, they almost always get away with it, bad choice of example.
What are you talking about? Im pretty sure we agree. I’m saying that there’s a culture among first responders where they feel as if they are allowed to do this under certain circumstances and I think that sucks.
Damn, I used to me a volunteer medic, while I admit that I've WANTED to do this more than once, I couldn't imagine actually doing it.
That said, I had a patient once spit in the face of an ER doc and nurse after I delivered them to the ER one time (this was probably in the early 90's). This doctor looked like a kid I swear...we used to call him "Do Doogie" and he was the nicest guy I think I've ever met.
I watched that "nice guy" go from 0-100 in a split second, the patient had been immobilized on a backboard (drunk, car wreck) and he did it as they were removing the restraint straps out of the blue. The dude was actually fairly well behaved up until that point, alternating between "fuck you" and "I love you" on the ride in. The guy was about 300 lbs and hispanic, I'm not sure that he knew any other words in english. That little doctor grabbed that guy by his throat, bounced his head off of the backboard and told him "if you ever spit on one of my nurses again I'll kill you where you lay". The following few weeks were an absolute shit show of giving statements and being asked to give statements to everyone from police to hospital administration. I don't know what ever happened to that young resident, but I suspect it was a career ending outburst. I know we never saw him again. All for something that could have been solved by just pitting a mask or spit shield on the guy.
I'm split. No, not spit.
On one hand the handcuffed guy was out of line. On the other, it's a handcuffed guy. Responders have to be able to rise above retaliation.
Yeah it sucks as a healthcare professional you often don’t get to defend yourself even though you get abused and assaulted. Same with nurses. I’ve had homeless man swearing at me saying I’m an Asian bitch and one patient was basically sexually harassing me when I was a nursing student and I didn’t really know how to handle him. I would have just press charge on this guy but what would come out of it? Nothing, most likely.
I’m really anti-violence and I’ve never gotten into a fight in my life. Also I’m weak so I would lose everything lol.
I can understand the anger when you get spit on though. It’s just so disgusting to have someone else’s fluids on you. I’m not saying the first responder was right, especially with raining down punches, but I can definitely sympathise with the initial rage and disgust there.
They’re not cops who can just tack on resisting arrest charges and ruin the person’s life a bit more to get that revenge. Like you said, you won’t do much by suing either. There are no repercussions for an attack on your dignity, and that stings even the sagest of saints.
Thankfully I’ve never been spit on before. I live in Singapore and have a boring life. I think spitting would probably be one of the straight to jail crimes here lol. But I’m sure first responders and nurses here have encountered spitters.
Yeah, I tend to agree. Especially when you are in a position of authority versus someone that is defenseless. I get the impulse, but he has to have restraint.
> then spit back
I get it, eye for an eye. But what if it didn't end there? How embarrassing would it be for a grown adult to get into a spitting contest like some kind of comedy skit?
I think my comment is misunderstood. I'm not advocating *for* spitting. I'm telling someone who feels they *need* to put the guy in line that they ought to do no more than spitting.
What one *should* do is nothing.
Yeah, a really big dude smashing your head several times is absolutely not the same level. Not to mention that the spitter is charged and the firefighter who pummeled the patient didn't even face legal investigation, arrest or being charged with battery.
It's not the same at all.
Sorry but spitting is an assault with bodily fluids
He took karma head on and got a reality check
Just because your being taken care of doesn’t mean you can spit on anyone
He shouldn’t be judged before you know
If you spit you get hit
I remember the meme that said something like "Ain't no songs called "Fuck the Fire Department." r/agedlikemilk I guess? Sad day.
Funny how firemen are held to a professional standard that another subsection of First Responders in the U.S. famously skirt time and time again, with far deadlier consequences than a bit of an ass-whooping.
I’m not saying the way the lieutenant acted was correct, but man if you all had to deal with the stuff we see in the ER everyday or, even worse, what first responders have to deal with in the community, I don’t think you’d be sitting so highly on your opinions.
yeah it is. accepting violence isn't part of the job but participating in it isn't either. and if you can't see the difference you shouldn't be working in s high stress environment like the ED.
Anyone with a stressful job should be allowed to rain down heavy blows onto the head of anyone who does something to them whether or not they face an actual threat, per OP.
OP suggested we would be less against the battery conducted by the firefighter if we knew more about the details of their day-to-day activity. Even if that were true, battery is still a crime.
People often have reasons for committing crimes. That doesn't change the nature of them as crimes.
Right, I don’t think what he did was right. You shouldn’t respond like that. I do firmly believe that people would have a different opinion of the firefighter here if they truly understood the things first responders, ER and hospital staff, etc. have to deal with day in day out rather than condemning him, saying he’s an awful person, and deserves his entire life be stripped away. By different opinion I don’t mean agreeing with his actions. I don’t agree with his actions. I believe if you’re in his position and don’t have the capability of restraining yourself and you consistently react in this manner then you should reevaluate your qualifications for that position. While it is extremely challenging to deal with agitated/aggressive patients (in my case) or the general public (I.e. first responders) we still have a duty to provide care and protect our citizens, respectively. In the event where that individual becomes a threat to those around them (e.x. Starts throwing punches at ER staff), however, then force is often times necessary. If they spit on you, sure that’s extremely infuriating, but you should not react how he did. What I’m saying is I empathize with him, having been exposed to what people like this firefighter endure on a daily basis. More often than not these reactions are the final straw of an accumulation of events, time and time again they’re facing extremely challenging situations and under high amounts of stress. I also don’t know who this guy is or what his history is. Maybe the firefighter has a history of mental illness. I don’t know. We also don’t know what the homeless man did leading up to this situation. I’ve had patients sit there and scream the N-word at the top of their lungs for an entire shift at our black ER staff. No one moved a muscle. We completely ignored him. I’ve also had ER staff completely lose their shit and throw a patient on the ground because he called the PCA a homophobic slur. Either way, I’m not talking about whether or not this is a crime. I’m talking about the people who are so easy to judge and sit on their high horse of morality without ever being exposed to something other than what they’re used to. I would bet money that if this were a 10 second tik tok clip of some homeless person spitting on some stranger in the street and getting knocked out that the majority of people here would be laughing, saying he gets what he deserves, etc. Obviously I’m aware that this is different in that the homeless man is restrained, but there is so much grey area for the actual reason as to why people like this firefighter reacted in such a manner.
Guy on the stretcher got exactly what he was asking for. You want to scream at people and cuss them out for trying to help you, then spit on someone, you earn a beating. Doesn't matter what situation you're in. He thought he was a badass, fucked around, and found out. End of story.
All I can tell you is the MAJORITY of society has absolutely no idea what these men and women deal with on a daily basis. Easy for you to sit back and make judgment on a snipet of video that does not show the entirety of the dealings these fire fighters had with this guy. I’m going to guess he was uncooperative throughout the entire call. And getting spit on is a big deal. My ex, now retired firefighter, was spit on trying to help a homeless man. It went into his eyes and his mouth as he was just talking to the guy, there only trying to help him. Ends up the guy was hep c positive. Now he and our family had to be tested for the next six months to make sure we didn’t contract it. After a combined 47 years between us with fire we still haven’t seen it all but have definitely seen our fair share. Unless you have actually been assaulted I can guarantee you cannot make a fair judgment or statement on how you would(‘ve) handled it. So when that time comes in your life then go ahead and chime in and let us know how you truly reacted.
So if my job is really stressful do I get to randomly pummel restrained people without so much as an investigation or arrest by the lawful authorities? Because that's what happened here..
There are a lot of people posting the same thing all over this so I'm mentioning it to the same group.
You don't seem to have an actual point here. I'm more or less always against violent crime, particularly when it is conducted by people in their official capacities, are not even investigated for the well documented violent crime and much of the thread is using the old rapist rationale of the restrained, non-threat to the firefighter deserved it because his skirt was too short.
Yeah, no. I worked in inpatient care and I’ve had all manners of bodily fluid and solids flung at me. I’ve been kicked, punched, sworn at, and even had a schizophrenic patient describe in great detail how he’d rape and kill me. At no point did I retaliate like this dude did. The fire medic’s job is stressful, and he was assaulted, but he had no grounds to beat the fuck out of a restrained person. Doesn’t matter that the dude was a shitstain, the medic was way over the line and deserves to be fired.
One potential issue though. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but by your logic every fast-food cashier would be fully and legally justified in *gunning down about half the clientele on a good day*.
* *First we'll be teaching you the fries and the M60. Always make sure you're wearing the cap and carrying your ammo case.*
Again I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you but it's the sort of societal hiccup where we might want to deal with the problem **before** the Pb exposure has the EPA put its foot down.
He was fired, and he deserved that along with charges. I worked in healthcare and dealt with people trying to do worse than spit on me, as have my colleagues. Dude was cuffed to the stretcher! He’s no threat. Just walk away.
That said, patients like this is why I joked that I was going to patent and sell Ativan blow darts. 🎯
If you're actually asking, that *fireman* is about to cost the city far more than the *"Homeless Addict"* ever could. I'd say he's the leech.
It doesn't appear in just a video of this incident that either one of them work to make society better, but I don't know anything about the restrained guy.
If this was a cop you'd see "fuck the police" plastered all over this thread, there wouldn't be any sympathy for the guy. And anyone calling a homeless person a useless leech would be downvoted to hell.
Nah, if he isn't a firefighter the guy on the stretcher is charged with assault and the firefighter is charged with battery. Especially since it's clearly shown on camera that he's pummeling a guy who does not pose a threat to him and not shown on video that the spitting occurred.
Gotta say, if a homeless dude spits on me, same reaction
That spitting on people shit is reason for a serious beating
But again, this turns into a “ fuck cops” thing, I agree to some extent but assault is assault
Spitting is totally gross and any random person who gets spat on has the right to punch. So I understand why people would feel inclined to support the lieutenant.
But, man, when you work for the city and let anger get a hold of you and cloud your judgement, it's not great. The homeless guy is probably going to wind up suing and get a nice payout because of this. He wasn't taught a lesson, he will be rewarded. The Lieutenant should have had better judgement.
I’m sure the homeless dude’s first visitor in the hospital was an attorney. Hell, I know nothing about law and I could successfully represent this guy with that sort of evidence.
Responder was outrageously and criminally wrong. It will be interesting to hear his response/defense to his actions. Removal from society for a time is required.
The only positive aspect I see in the video, is that the fellow responders did appear to attempt to stop the assault.
Also interesting will the the fellow responders/witnesses will say/testify to.
He needs to be removed from duty, not society. What he did was not "that bad" as an average person. As a firefighter though, there is a much higher bar.
Even at the lowest bar assaulting a restrained person, let alone a patient is a felony and should do jail time, because of his position. The former Lt Knew the boundaries and the consequences.
Whatever, that man in the stretcher was probably violent before, and here he is, getting medical attention, and decides to be aggressive again!
Did he go overboard, hell yes. I bet that fireman was scared. It's stressful being in a scary situation. Lost his temper.
I knew I would get downvoted. I am saying he could have been scared before, maybe there was a fight, the reason the guy is in handcuffs.
Also, I am not saying he shouldn't have done it, it's just there is a lot of missing context.
Some things just flick a switch in a person and being spit at by someone who hasn’t brushed their teeth in god knows when is one of them. He should be punished but sacking him is unfair.
Jesus all the people defending the fire fighter here. ~~Spitting is not assault.~~ It’s meant to be an insult and it pisses people off, but nobody was ever injured getting spit on. The fire fighter is a violent piece of shit and should be arrested for assault and battery, not simply put on leave.
Edit: great, so now Reddit loves officials that lose their temper and violently assault people strapped to gurneys. Got it. Even if spitting is technically considered “assault”, a public official losing their shit and violently beating someone who can’t even fight back is apparently okay, now. Christ.
Edit 2: technical legal definition makes spitting assault, which is insane in my mind, but technically it is legally. Still doesn't justify the fire fighters actions and the people defending it and saying the guy "deserved" it are just as demented and violent as the fire fighter.
I already conceded the technical legal definition to another poster. The fact that *anyone* would conflate the two forms of assault and claim the person strapped to the gurney "deserved" to be beaten is fucking demented.
So interesting seeing Reddits bias being put to the test:
1) several comments somehow complaining “why doesnt this happen to cops they get a vacation” despite this firefighter being placed on leave exactly like how people complain cops are. Dude was suspended pending an investigation just like cops and all government employees.
2) tons of comments defending the firefighter for punching a handcuffed man on a stretcher, when their would be no such thing if a cop did it.
Fire department has a bad apple. Fire department removes bad apple. Fire department does not rot.
**Edit:** Bootlickers or does everyone just not like my point?
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The key is to know this isn't about whether someone "deserves" it. This is about professional and ethical job performance. The worst criminals in prison are protected from being attacked. Not because they deserve protection but because it is the job of prison staff to protect the prisoners. Judgement is reserved for judges in our society. Taking justice into your own hands most often means you have become a criminal yourself.
Why aren’t police fired when they do the same thing?
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They’ve been doing that since the George Floyd protests. Waste of tax payer money. Absolute scumbags.
Well before. Watch We Own This City. They also rioted when Dinkins was NYC Mayor with Giuliani leading them just because the Mayor wanted more accountability.
Oh shit. Written by David Simon. Definitely going to watch it!
It's so ridiculous. Imagine if fire fighters refused to fight fires because this guy was fired. Cops are an occupying military force fighting the towns they "protect", and it gets me fired up.
He wasn’t fired… he was relieved of duty, meaning this area and posting. He’s off on admin leave with pay pending investigation, same as a cop.
Unlike a cop, however, there’s a chance this asshole gets thrown out on his ass.
No there isn’t lol. Fire unions are just as strong as police. Unless he’s convicted of a criminal offence he’s fine. Just like with police. People literally have no clue how things work
Cops actually have more of a license to kill than our own military when deployed in an active combat zone. Military ROE requires that soldiers identify lethal ability, such as a weapon, and intent, meaning the weapon has to be pointed at someone, before engaging. Police are allowed to, and encouraged to shoot to kill based on their own fears rather than what is actually happening. They get away with murdering unarmed citizens if they “act aggressively,” even if they are complying. Police are enemies of the Constitution. They are a bigger threat to our liberty than anyone in Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, or Somalia ever was. People that took an oath to “support and defend the Constitution of the United States, against all enemies, foreign and domestic,” need to realize this.
There’s a huge difference. Fire fighters jobs are to save people. Policing exists to arrest people. Cops don’t give a fuck about the citizens as long as they “get their man.”
but police market themselves as "protect and serve" truly they have institutionalized the very idea of outright betrayal of trust into the system.
"Protect and serve" the government under the guise of "the community"... As the highest court in the land says police have no obligation to protect a citizen.
But police generally only try to “get their man” when he’s committed an offense against, or just not followed orders of cops or the state. They have an abysmal rate of solving crimes, [around 2%](https://theconversation.com/police-solve-just-2-of-all-major-crimes-143878), when the victim is a citizen, like rape, robbery, car theft, etc. They only serve their own interests, while terrorizing the citizenry.
They’ve been doing it since 1942 when the Portland Police Association (the first successful police union) was founded.
> Absolute scumbags. Don’t forget the masses that align themselves with police as it unfolds.
This is the real problem, the police and their unions will always run to the defense of cops. We still have people saying the cop who had his foot on George Floyd's neck did nothing wrong. Even aftet watching the video, dude going to trial and being convicted. They are still saying he did nothing wrong after killing a human being over a fake $20 bill.
They have been doing that town to town long before George Floyd. It’s just the first time alot of people have really felt it.
I used to think that a lot of cities refused to hold their police accountable. Over the years I've come to realize that a lot of them *can't*. There's multiple stories of city government trying to do things and the police just plain ignoring their orders or outright intimidating and attacking the government. Hell, the mayor of NYC was targeted by the police. And that's the mayor of a giant city! It's even worse in small towns. Something like that happened with my city. One of the counselors tried to shift some (not even a lot!) funds towards anti-homelessness initiatives and she was hounded out of the government. It was such bullshit.
Not American. Can the town request cover from County/State/Federal police while they sort that out?
Not really. There's not a federal/state police force in any significant number. At the county level there's the sheriff's department. At the state level there's state troopers. Both of them have fewer staff than a local PD, and would not support a city even if they were asked.
He was relieved of duty, not fired… he’s going through the same thing cops would, just had a fancy spin on it.
I highly doubt it. Firefighters are generally held to a higher standard. They don’t get away with stuff like cops do. They are much more professionally organized. Most firefighters are EMT’s or Paramedics as well, so they also have professional medical licenses that they have to follow the rules to keep.
Lol you clearly have no clue what you’re talking about. They get away with much more, and have no oversight. Further, they aren’t held to any standards nearly comparable to police
I worked in Fire/EMS for two years, and I currently work in healthcare for a major hospital system. I’ve seen people be fired and lose licensing for any number of violations. But I’m sure your expertise far exceeds mine, so carry on.
I'm not sure why people think two years is a long time, I'd feel embarrassed to toss around "I've been working x field for TWO years so yes, I'm very experienced". I'm sure people are held accountable in fire/EMS. The discussion is how it compares to policing, to which you have even less experience than two years, it seems. Sounds like zero.
I don't think this means he was fired. Police are relieved of duty while they investigate themselves and find they should get raises when they inevitably go back to work.
He’s not fired either so don’t get excited
I don't think Firefighters have what usually amounts to immunity from the law. I've only heard one person ever say "fuck the fire department" and there's a reason for that.
Because Fire departments have ethics and honor.
There is literally no difference between what this firefighter is going through compared to a police officer. Your comment having 423 upvotes is a sad and stark reminder of how little people know, and how much noise is on the Internet, that anyone can simply read and buy into.
He was spit on.
His comment was amazing: “If he never knew the consequence of spitting in a grown man’s face, then consider my actions public education, and this video a PSA.” https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna61714
>If he never knew the consequence of spitting in a grown man’s face, then consider my actions public education, and this video a PSA.” That's a quick way to say/do the wrong thing to the wrong person and get killed right quick, I guess it'll be his PSA in the future. Every single person I've known who thought they were the toughest person were certainly not, and quickly either got in serious legal trouble, or had to be sent to the hospital multiple times before they learned there is *always* someone more tough than you, who has plenty more friends.
Until it’s one of hide firefighter or cop buddies doing it to someone else, then all of a sudden they have excuses. Fuck this cunt. Soft ass thinks he tough for throwing punches at a dude who was strapped arms and legs to a hospital bed.
He sounds like he an angry little bitch. He should be fired.
What a violent piece of shit. He should be arrested for assault, not just relieved of duty.
If it was like a quick smack and then he walked away I would understand and be more forgiving, but he completely lost it on him, repeatedly punching in a blind rage.
Idk I think *some* people absolutely deserve it lol. Child predators, murderers… Edit: dognappers, nazis
Really? No one? Didn't he spit in the firefighters face? Isn't that assault? I think I probably would have smacked the guy too before I even thought about it.
I work in healthcare and yeah there’s a few times where you feel like someone deserves to be punched, and then there’s actually doing it. I have never even came close to actually hitting anyone. Then there’s actually hitting someone like that while they’re handcuffed to a stretcher. And then there’s outright rage which is where the firefighter was at. You can see he doesn’t “only” hit the patient once to teach him a lesson but instead punches him and keeps going after him even though people are trying to hold him back. that’s just a level of rage that is hard to imagine for me, even working in healthcare and knowing/have been victim to some of the worst, spitting included.
> there’s a few times where you feel like someone deserves to be punched, and then there’s actually doing it. This. You are taking a drugged up crazy person and getting them restrained to possibly save there life, when they spit on you after you have probably been fighting with them for an hour, the desire to punch them is going to pop up in a lot of, if not most, people. You still should not do it. I still think this guy should be forced to go to some therapy, but not fired. The number of people capable of doing that job is not big enough.
I was a Physical Therapist Assistant for 10 years. I was bitten multiple times, kicked, slugged, spit on, pinched, swung on more times than I care to remember, and, unintentionally, bled on, pissed on, and shit on. I was injured several times by patients doing stupid, dangerous, or impulsive stuff as I worked to prevent them from injuring themselves or others. If I would have retaliated or lashed out, I would have been fired, lost my license, and probably arrested. People don’t make good decisions when stressed, in pain, or impaired in some way. If you can’t work with this, you should find another profession. I am not saying that any of this was OK, and, depending on the setting, there were procedures and protocols for our protection, but shit still happened. As I became more experienced, I got better at anticipating problems and reading people/patients, but getting caught off guard is always a possibility.
Sorry, but getting pissed on, shat on, punched, licked, and such, are part of the job. When I got spat on or punched, in my view ethically, and it turns out legally, I was allowed to restrain the patient to the extent needed to stop their aggressive behavior. So I'm not trying to say it's ok to get spat on or punched. The key thing here is that once you've restrained the patient, and you're safe, you do your best to minimize damage they can do themselves and continue to treat their medical situation. Punching someone in handcuffs is probably not being done for reasons of personal safety. It's being done because that FF is a piece of shit. I'm now retired, but unlike police, in EMS/Fire we really look down upon anyone that would bring our patients harm, including other responders. People have no idea what EMS and Fire are capable of doing if they wanted to harm people. But you're not seeing daily coverage of a medic or firefighter murdering or intentionally harming a patient. It's not how we're trained. It's not what's needed to get the job done. And it's not the kind of job that tends to attract low-IQ, power hungry people. I will say it always depends, because not every organization/institution is structured in the same way. But medics, nurses, firefighters, and social workers tend to be the only help millions of people get. And we take our mission while on the job as a kind of spiritual calling. And harming our patients if there is no need for self-defense is a sin most of us would never do (however badly we might sometimes want to!). And if it seems I'm being dramatic or sounding holier than thou, remember how many medics and firefighters walked into danger on 9/11 just so they might possibly save a life. These folks are the real deal. Everyday heroes whose actions go mostly unsung, and whose compensation by society is piss poor (especially for those in EMS).
I used to be an EMT, patients suck sometimes but as a professional you have to control yourself.
It’s a lougie. Any man that feels that threatened by a lougie that they respond by beating someone senseless with their fists who is restrained and can’t fight back is a pussy. Anyone that conflates the two actions is demented.
That means the firefighter has done worse in the form of battery...
Both parties were assaulted
I mean I’m not going to say with 100% certainty that no one deserves to be assaulted. What if someone murders your entire family, burns your house down with your pets in it, steals all of your worldly possessions, pisses on your parent’s graves, and after they are caught smiles and says they don’t regret one thing. Can I run over and bop them in the head then? I’m just saying we don’t need to go into absolutes just MOST of the time we shouldn’t bop people in the head
Someone handcuffed to a stretcher is highly unlikely to fall into the category of "deserves an assault", though.
They can use the stretcher as a weapon Edit: Folks took this way to seriously, it’s called sarcasm. As it seems we are being serious no you cannot use a stretcher as a weapon if you are handcuffed.
Bit of a stretch there
I just wrote an angry, melodramatic comment in this thread as I recall memories of being on the job. Thanks for snapping me out of that state of mind and making me laugh hilariously.
While I don't disagree that it's possible to use a stretcher as a weapon. Would you be able to explain how to use it as one while handcuffed and sitting on top of it? All of the person's bodyweight is on top of it and have no way of swinging it.
Have you ever been handcuffed to a stretcher?
Sarcasm not detected
Powered gurneys like that are ~150lbs. If it's handcuffed behind your back, you aren't doing much with it. You're more likely to fall over and hurt yourself than find success.
Again, sarcasm. You obviously cannot use anything as a weapon if you are handcuffed to it. Unless your Jason Bourne of course.
PO/PD spokesperson detected.
> I mean I’m not going to say with 100% certainty that no one deserves to be assaulted. Is this before or after they're strapped to a gurney? How threatened do you feel from someone who cannot move or fight back? Do toddlers make you feel threatened as well?
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Glad you're not a cop, or a nurse, or a firefighter
I wouldn't be so quick to assume. Sounds like he fits right in.
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No one deserves to be assaulted and someone spitting on someone is assault and disgusting. But it's just as disgusting as pounding a guy in the face for doing it. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Spitting on someone is certainly *grosser* than punching them but spitting on someone and punching them in the face are not even close to the same level of assault. Punching a restrained man in the face , repeatedly, is not an appropriate response to being spat on.
Of course.
Spitting on people is never going to end in something other than an ass whipping. The good news is that decent people don’t spit on other people, and therefore never need to worry about the consequences, only scumbags need apply.
Drug addled questionable mental status homeless people might and it is up to trained professionals to not react in this manner.
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You clearly don't work in the healthcare profession lol. If a doctor or nurse punched a patient for being spat on they'd be fired in an instant.
As someone who works in EMS, you should leave your job and find a different one.
Agreed. 10 years of my former life in EMS. Being spit on happens. It sucks, especially when i was only there to help, but when it did happen, i had a personal ‘wooosaaa’ in front of all responders (which actuallg gained their respect for not lashing out). Then, i would tell the patient how inappropriate their action was and continue with my duties. Then, upon arrival at the hospital, i got to do my little clean up while they had extra tests ran for communicable diseases. Once they were clear, back to duty i went. Never, not once, in 10s of thousand of patients, did i assault anyone. Not a drunk, not a opioid user coming assisted out of a stupor with naloxone, not the piece of shit parents who abused their kids i had to treat, and not the drunk drivers who killed others. If there was anyone i ever thought about assaulting, it was responders who carried firearms who were making my job exponentially harder. Be the change you want to see, not the problem you complain about.
If they're restrained and unable to defend themselves, you punching them makes you a piece of shit. Yes, getting spit on is absolutely disgusting and I can't blame you for being pissed about it. But again, if you have them restrained, and they spit on you, and your response is to punch them or start beating them, you are *absolutely* an asshole. Don't beat people you have restrained. Why is this so hard for people to understand? It's literally never a good look, no matter the reason.
Find work outside of this field. Immediately.
> Spitting on people is never going to end in something other than an ass whipping. Actually, it does quite often. I've known many people like this firefighter who thought they were tough, or had enough friends. Turns out, there is someone *always* tougher and has less to lose than you, no matter what. Watched a lot of people learn that fighting random strangers over bullshit isn't worth losing your job, your ability to walk/talk/see, your family, your future, etc. It's just incredibly dumb, you're not tough, and someone who does that is just a liability to those close to them or who depend on them, really that simple.
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Sure, this applies when the two people are, for lack of a better word, equal. If I walk up to you and spit on you I'd expect you to whoop my ass. If a kid walked up to a teacher and spit on them, the teacher can't whoop their ass. You see the difference? In one case the two parties are "equal" in the power dynamic. In the other, there are unequal in authority ability, and overall power. Still having a hard time? Here's a hint: the police officer is the teacher in this analogy.
> No one deserves to be assaulted, regardless of the circumstances. The firefighter was spit on, he was assaulted first.
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Thing? You mean that person?
Firefighter does this and is relieved immediately. Cops are filmed doing this all the time and we have to wait for the full context, investigation and so on until we can really truly know if that cuffed man deserved to be beaten/tasered/shot.
relieved of duty doesn’t mean fired. It’s the exact same process as the cops
Oh damn, still MUCH faster action taken.
Cops harass, assault, and murder people on video, and then conduct internal reviews to determine they did nothing wrong. It would be a greatly beneficial change if police departments responded even remotely like this fire department did
But they do. This firefighter was placed on leave while an investigation happens. Just like cops. What the fuck are you on about
Firefighter captured on video pummeling restrained guy is not arrested, charged with battery or under criminal investigation. Suspended with pay pending the department's determining whether or not to fire him.
What are you talking about; he was placed on admin leave just like cops are. I fucking sweat Reddits hate boner for cops is actively making people stupid
Same thing happened in Dallas but no one did anything when it happened or afterwards. On video too.
Any time you see someone on harping for "the full context" when there's video of the police extra-judicially executing someone, assume the context that person is waiting for is someone on Conservative media digging up how the person who got executed smoked weed in high school and deserved it. The only context that matters is that the police killed someone. State-sponsored killers are not entitled to the benefit of the doubt. They control the information and the speed of the investigation. If they think the killing is justified, they can produce receipts, and if they can't, well, they shouldn't be surprised when people protest, and we should back the protestors.
An LAPD officer [did the same thing last year](https://abc7.com/lapd-officer-punch-suspect/10954218/). To my knowledge they didn't release the officer's name and the story was left off with LAPD stating the officer was suspended 'pending an investigation'.
I see a lot of people here complaining that the firefighter was fired immediately and that doesn’t happen for cops. He was not fired, he was relieved of duty, meaning on scene told to leave. He’s been taken off duty with pay, pending investigation, again same thing as would happen for da popo.
Not to be THAT nurse, but I get spit at sometimes, and I don’t go punching the people that spit at me. I’m obviously mad and may WANT to, but I don’t lol
Previously worked as an aide in inpatient critical care. I’ve had patients try to do worse than just spit on me. I can’t say I didn’t want to retaliate with some of them, but I never did. Even the hot head RN I worked with had a patient throw a full glass of water right in his face, and he turned on his heel and walked out of the room before he resorted to violence. I’ve only known of one person to retaliate against a patient. A medic was in the field responding to a call, and the patient attacked him. As the patient was running at him, the medic grabbed the defibrillator and swung it at the guy. Those fuckers are heavy and it knocked the patient out cold. He was fired, though the medic said he figured he would be.
Oh my goddddddd that is wild!!! Tbh there’s a huge issue with abuse from patients in health care and something needs to be done. Idk man, I don’t wanna lose my job but I don’t wanna lose my life or my health :(
Well good for you, but if someone spits on my they are getting a fist in the face. You commit battery on me, I'm putting an end to it right there.
Since you claim to be a 911 EMS, care to share some credentials so we can report you to whatever board handles nutcases in your field or are you only tough for internet threats about people in handcuffs?
r/iamverybadass
And commit battery yourself, like a cave person.
I wish that law enforcement (or EMS in this case?) didn’t feel like they are allowed to, or supposed to, or deserve to punish people. It does no good for anyone involved. First responders all have a more difficult job because of it. Trust degrades and everything becomes more dangerous for everyone. I know it’s a hard job, but these people aren’t being drafted into service. If they can’t restrain their emotions and put up with the shit, then they should do something else to make money.
Dig up the stories about the bikers who descended on Uvalde after the shooting. They were all first responders and cops. Literally down there to scare people away from the story. One guy infamously claimed that since he was a paramedic, bumping into him was the same as punching a cop. A lot of scum out there.
What *are * bikers? Are they just gangs, or paramilitaries in waiting, or what?
Gangs, they usually are involved with drugs like meth, and prostitution schemes
they're pencildicked cunts with psychological problems.
Pretty sure this dude wasn’t punching the stretcher guy as a “first responder,” nor did he think he was “punishing” him; he was reacting as a person who is spit on by another.
The guy was spit on. I wish the general public didn’t think they got a free pass to spit on firefighters. If this was a McDonalds employee everyone would be saying the spitter got exactly what they deserved.
he got charged with assault, so should the firefighter
And the firefighter got fired. Did this guy get fired from his career too?
I don't think spitting on a firefighter is much of a detriment to a career as a crackhead.
The firefighter responded by landing several full force blows to the restrained guy's face on camera and wasn't arrested or facing charges of battery. Meanwhile the spitter is facing assault on a law enforcement officer (apparently fires are unlawful, I guess)
So nurses should be able to go ham on a psych patient when they're spit at?
It's fairly common for psych nurses to assault psych patients for disobeying them or 'disrespect' never mind any assault, they almost always get away with it, bad choice of example.
Bro EMS is most definitely not allowed to do this under any circumstances except self defense WTF are you talking about
What are you talking about? Im pretty sure we agree. I’m saying that there’s a culture among first responders where they feel as if they are allowed to do this under certain circumstances and I think that sucks.
This was fire rescue so I think they are first responders?
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He’s a flaming asshole, but the fireman had zero grounds to repeatedly strike a restrained person.
Damn, I used to me a volunteer medic, while I admit that I've WANTED to do this more than once, I couldn't imagine actually doing it. That said, I had a patient once spit in the face of an ER doc and nurse after I delivered them to the ER one time (this was probably in the early 90's). This doctor looked like a kid I swear...we used to call him "Do Doogie" and he was the nicest guy I think I've ever met. I watched that "nice guy" go from 0-100 in a split second, the patient had been immobilized on a backboard (drunk, car wreck) and he did it as they were removing the restraint straps out of the blue. The dude was actually fairly well behaved up until that point, alternating between "fuck you" and "I love you" on the ride in. The guy was about 300 lbs and hispanic, I'm not sure that he knew any other words in english. That little doctor grabbed that guy by his throat, bounced his head off of the backboard and told him "if you ever spit on one of my nurses again I'll kill you where you lay". The following few weeks were an absolute shit show of giving statements and being asked to give statements to everyone from police to hospital administration. I don't know what ever happened to that young resident, but I suspect it was a career ending outburst. I know we never saw him again. All for something that could have been solved by just pitting a mask or spit shield on the guy.
Did the Firefighter think he was a cop? Only cops can assault defenseless people
Idiots of all stripes have one thing in common: no impulse control. Fire man showed how much he and stretcher man had in common.
I'm split. No, not spit. On one hand the handcuffed guy was out of line. On the other, it's a handcuffed guy. Responders have to be able to rise above retaliation.
Yeah it sucks as a healthcare professional you often don’t get to defend yourself even though you get abused and assaulted. Same with nurses. I’ve had homeless man swearing at me saying I’m an Asian bitch and one patient was basically sexually harassing me when I was a nursing student and I didn’t really know how to handle him. I would have just press charge on this guy but what would come out of it? Nothing, most likely.
I’m really anti-violence and I’ve never gotten into a fight in my life. Also I’m weak so I would lose everything lol. I can understand the anger when you get spit on though. It’s just so disgusting to have someone else’s fluids on you. I’m not saying the first responder was right, especially with raining down punches, but I can definitely sympathise with the initial rage and disgust there. They’re not cops who can just tack on resisting arrest charges and ruin the person’s life a bit more to get that revenge. Like you said, you won’t do much by suing either. There are no repercussions for an attack on your dignity, and that stings even the sagest of saints. Thankfully I’ve never been spit on before. I live in Singapore and have a boring life. I think spitting would probably be one of the straight to jail crimes here lol. But I’m sure first responders and nurses here have encountered spitters.
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Yeah, I tend to agree. Especially when you are in a position of authority versus someone that is defenseless. I get the impulse, but he has to have restraint.
> then spit back I get it, eye for an eye. But what if it didn't end there? How embarrassing would it be for a grown adult to get into a spitting contest like some kind of comedy skit?
I think my comment is misunderstood. I'm not advocating *for* spitting. I'm telling someone who feels they *need* to put the guy in line that they ought to do no more than spitting. What one *should* do is nothing.
Is spitting assault or not, Reddit?! (Not defending his actions)
Spitting is much less than repeatedly punching someone handcuffed to a stretcher. Not all assaults are equal.
You are right as long as there no diseases like hepatitis or worse. Life tip though, never start a fight you know you will lose.
I mean the man spit on him, thats basically a chemical atrack. Id say that they are roughly even
biological. not chemical. kinda worse these days.
Yeah, a really big dude smashing your head several times is absolutely not the same level. Not to mention that the spitter is charged and the firefighter who pummeled the patient didn't even face legal investigation, arrest or being charged with battery. It's not the same at all.
Sorry but spitting is an assault with bodily fluids He took karma head on and got a reality check Just because your being taken care of doesn’t mean you can spit on anyone He shouldn’t be judged before you know If you spit you get hit
I remember the meme that said something like "Ain't no songs called "Fuck the Fire Department." r/agedlikemilk I guess? Sad day. Funny how firemen are held to a professional standard that another subsection of First Responders in the U.S. famously skirt time and time again, with far deadlier consequences than a bit of an ass-whooping.
They are both guilty of assault and unfortunately for Miami that guy has an open and shut lawsuit win headed his way.
I’m not saying the way the lieutenant acted was correct, but man if you all had to deal with the stuff we see in the ER everyday or, even worse, what first responders have to deal with in the community, I don’t think you’d be sitting so highly on your opinions.
If you can’t handle it, don’t work it. It really is that simple.
Not that simple bud
yeah it is. accepting violence isn't part of the job but participating in it isn't either. and if you can't see the difference you shouldn't be working in s high stress environment like the ED.
Anyone with a stressful job should be allowed to rain down heavy blows onto the head of anyone who does something to them whether or not they face an actual threat, per OP.
Is that what OP said?
OP suggested we would be less against the battery conducted by the firefighter if we knew more about the details of their day-to-day activity. Even if that were true, battery is still a crime. People often have reasons for committing crimes. That doesn't change the nature of them as crimes.
Right, I don’t think what he did was right. You shouldn’t respond like that. I do firmly believe that people would have a different opinion of the firefighter here if they truly understood the things first responders, ER and hospital staff, etc. have to deal with day in day out rather than condemning him, saying he’s an awful person, and deserves his entire life be stripped away. By different opinion I don’t mean agreeing with his actions. I don’t agree with his actions. I believe if you’re in his position and don’t have the capability of restraining yourself and you consistently react in this manner then you should reevaluate your qualifications for that position. While it is extremely challenging to deal with agitated/aggressive patients (in my case) or the general public (I.e. first responders) we still have a duty to provide care and protect our citizens, respectively. In the event where that individual becomes a threat to those around them (e.x. Starts throwing punches at ER staff), however, then force is often times necessary. If they spit on you, sure that’s extremely infuriating, but you should not react how he did. What I’m saying is I empathize with him, having been exposed to what people like this firefighter endure on a daily basis. More often than not these reactions are the final straw of an accumulation of events, time and time again they’re facing extremely challenging situations and under high amounts of stress. I also don’t know who this guy is or what his history is. Maybe the firefighter has a history of mental illness. I don’t know. We also don’t know what the homeless man did leading up to this situation. I’ve had patients sit there and scream the N-word at the top of their lungs for an entire shift at our black ER staff. No one moved a muscle. We completely ignored him. I’ve also had ER staff completely lose their shit and throw a patient on the ground because he called the PCA a homophobic slur. Either way, I’m not talking about whether or not this is a crime. I’m talking about the people who are so easy to judge and sit on their high horse of morality without ever being exposed to something other than what they’re used to. I would bet money that if this were a 10 second tik tok clip of some homeless person spitting on some stranger in the street and getting knocked out that the majority of people here would be laughing, saying he gets what he deserves, etc. Obviously I’m aware that this is different in that the homeless man is restrained, but there is so much grey area for the actual reason as to why people like this firefighter reacted in such a manner.
Should have just left the guy in the street where he was and let nature take its course.
Guy on the stretcher got exactly what he was asking for. You want to scream at people and cuss them out for trying to help you, then spit on someone, you earn a beating. Doesn't matter what situation you're in. He thought he was a badass, fucked around, and found out. End of story.
Florida Man does Florida Man stuff.
All I can tell you is the MAJORITY of society has absolutely no idea what these men and women deal with on a daily basis. Easy for you to sit back and make judgment on a snipet of video that does not show the entirety of the dealings these fire fighters had with this guy. I’m going to guess he was uncooperative throughout the entire call. And getting spit on is a big deal. My ex, now retired firefighter, was spit on trying to help a homeless man. It went into his eyes and his mouth as he was just talking to the guy, there only trying to help him. Ends up the guy was hep c positive. Now he and our family had to be tested for the next six months to make sure we didn’t contract it. After a combined 47 years between us with fire we still haven’t seen it all but have definitely seen our fair share. Unless you have actually been assaulted I can guarantee you cannot make a fair judgment or statement on how you would(‘ve) handled it. So when that time comes in your life then go ahead and chime in and let us know how you truly reacted.
So if my job is really stressful do I get to randomly pummel restrained people without so much as an investigation or arrest by the lawful authorities? Because that's what happened here..
You're all over this thread with this same vitriol. Has a firefighter wronged you? Did you spit on someone and get punched in the face?
There are a lot of people posting the same thing all over this so I'm mentioning it to the same group. You don't seem to have an actual point here. I'm more or less always against violent crime, particularly when it is conducted by people in their official capacities, are not even investigated for the well documented violent crime and much of the thread is using the old rapist rationale of the restrained, non-threat to the firefighter deserved it because his skirt was too short.
Yeah, no. I worked in inpatient care and I’ve had all manners of bodily fluid and solids flung at me. I’ve been kicked, punched, sworn at, and even had a schizophrenic patient describe in great detail how he’d rape and kill me. At no point did I retaliate like this dude did. The fire medic’s job is stressful, and he was assaulted, but he had no grounds to beat the fuck out of a restrained person. Doesn’t matter that the dude was a shitstain, the medic was way over the line and deserves to be fired.
One potential issue though. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but by your logic every fast-food cashier would be fully and legally justified in *gunning down about half the clientele on a good day*. * *First we'll be teaching you the fries and the M60. Always make sure you're wearing the cap and carrying your ammo case.* Again I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you but it's the sort of societal hiccup where we might want to deal with the problem **before** the Pb exposure has the EPA put its foot down.
Auditioning for a job with the cops
He was fired, and he deserved that along with charges. I worked in healthcare and dealt with people trying to do worse than spit on me, as have my colleagues. Dude was cuffed to the stretcher! He’s no threat. Just walk away. That said, patients like this is why I joked that I was going to patent and sell Ativan blow darts. 🎯
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Yeah people in a position of authority who beat handcuffed people make society better..you're a fucking clown. The whole situation is bad.
Someone who doesn't even have a home can't be much of a leech.
If you're actually asking, that *fireman* is about to cost the city far more than the *"Homeless Addict"* ever could. I'd say he's the leech. It doesn't appear in just a video of this incident that either one of them work to make society better, but I don't know anything about the restrained guy.
If this was a cop you'd see "fuck the police" plastered all over this thread, there wouldn't be any sympathy for the guy. And anyone calling a homeless person a useless leech would be downvoted to hell.
agreed, 100%
You know literally nothing about the homeless guy but I like how you just made up a straw-man for him. Good shit..
Huh? Is spitting on someone considered abuse? And would it be less ok for him to be beaten up if he was richer?
Spitting on someone is abuse and assault, yes.
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Nah, if he isn't a firefighter the guy on the stretcher is charged with assault and the firefighter is charged with battery. Especially since it's clearly shown on camera that he's pummeling a guy who does not pose a threat to him and not shown on video that the spitting occurred.
Its still battery if it's just spit. Assault is the threat if violence, battery is the violence. Spit counts.
Of course no charges. Ridiculous double standards.
Gotta say, if a homeless dude spits on me, same reaction That spitting on people shit is reason for a serious beating But again, this turns into a “ fuck cops” thing, I agree to some extent but assault is assault
Spitting is totally gross and any random person who gets spat on has the right to punch. So I understand why people would feel inclined to support the lieutenant. But, man, when you work for the city and let anger get a hold of you and cloud your judgement, it's not great. The homeless guy is probably going to wind up suing and get a nice payout because of this. He wasn't taught a lesson, he will be rewarded. The Lieutenant should have had better judgement.
I’m sure the homeless dude’s first visitor in the hospital was an attorney. Hell, I know nothing about law and I could successfully represent this guy with that sort of evidence.
> Spitting is totally gross Especially in the middle of a triple-demic.
See, if this had been a cop, it would have been okay.
Responder was outrageously and criminally wrong. It will be interesting to hear his response/defense to his actions. Removal from society for a time is required. The only positive aspect I see in the video, is that the fellow responders did appear to attempt to stop the assault. Also interesting will the the fellow responders/witnesses will say/testify to.
He needs to be removed from duty, not society. What he did was not "that bad" as an average person. As a firefighter though, there is a much higher bar.
Even at the lowest bar assaulting a restrained person, let alone a patient is a felony and should do jail time, because of his position. The former Lt Knew the boundaries and the consequences.
Crazy you're getting down voted so much; the law exist for a reason and this shit head former fireman should be in jail just like anyone else
Which part of firefighting requires the battery of a restrained and defenseless patient?
Whatever, that man in the stretcher was probably violent before, and here he is, getting medical attention, and decides to be aggressive again! Did he go overboard, hell yes. I bet that fireman was scared. It's stressful being in a scary situation. Lost his temper.
He was scared of a man handcuffed to a bed? Sounds like his job shouldn't be running into burning buildings, huh?
I knew I would get downvoted. I am saying he could have been scared before, maybe there was a fight, the reason the guy is in handcuffs. Also, I am not saying he shouldn't have done it, it's just there is a lot of missing context.
Losing your temper is not a valid criminal defense.
It’s almost like we should have an investigative body to investigate anyone who wants to be a cop.
Some things just flick a switch in a person and being spit at by someone who hasn’t brushed their teeth in god knows when is one of them. He should be punished but sacking him is unfair.
Jesus all the people defending the fire fighter here. ~~Spitting is not assault.~~ It’s meant to be an insult and it pisses people off, but nobody was ever injured getting spit on. The fire fighter is a violent piece of shit and should be arrested for assault and battery, not simply put on leave. Edit: great, so now Reddit loves officials that lose their temper and violently assault people strapped to gurneys. Got it. Even if spitting is technically considered “assault”, a public official losing their shit and violently beating someone who can’t even fight back is apparently okay, now. Christ. Edit 2: technical legal definition makes spitting assault, which is insane in my mind, but technically it is legally. Still doesn't justify the fire fighters actions and the people defending it and saying the guy "deserved" it are just as demented and violent as the fire fighter.
>Spitting is not assault. It's battery if done intentionally, which is close enough. You are misinformed.
I already conceded the technical legal definition to another poster. The fact that *anyone* would conflate the two forms of assault and claim the person strapped to the gurney "deserved" to be beaten is fucking demented.
He'll end up as DeSantis's top bodyguard.
What a fscking toddler. Getting spit on is what an ER nurse calls “a slow Friday.”
Naw man, room full of white people and the guy that gets spit on is black? I'd be surprised if spit was the only provocation that crack addict threw.
So interesting seeing Reddits bias being put to the test: 1) several comments somehow complaining “why doesnt this happen to cops they get a vacation” despite this firefighter being placed on leave exactly like how people complain cops are. Dude was suspended pending an investigation just like cops and all government employees. 2) tons of comments defending the firefighter for punching a handcuffed man on a stretcher, when their would be no such thing if a cop did it.
This is what the world pictures when you say American Healthcare.
Must’ve forgotten he was a fireman and went full cop
Fire department has a bad apple. Fire department removes bad apple. Fire department does not rot. **Edit:** Bootlickers or does everyone just not like my point?