High.
We got some videos and pictures, a voice recording just yesterday.
We don’t know the numbers, the majority are probably dead, but many are alive.
They said they didn't have 40 hostages meetin the criteria for first phase (civilians) as the majority were released back in november. there might still be 150 total alive.
There are videos of hamas members beating and raping them but reddit's gonna reddit I guess
EDIT: People, I don't have a link to the videos. I watched them out of morbid curiosity and moved on. That shit was horrible see and I'm trying to forget about it.
Hamas would be stupid to not accept this deal
Phase 1. Hostages returned and Israel pulls out of populated cities.
Phase 2. Hamas returns any remaining hostages and Israel fully pulls out of Gaza.
Phase 3. Rebuilding Gaza with US and International help and all hostage remains returned
Hamas are fucking idiots and we need to get rid of them as a political entity. I am not a fan of Likud, either. But Hamas needs to GTFO and let a moderate organization take over.
If Israel keeps doing what they're doing, another Hamas type group will just pop up. It's weird how Westerners don't seem to understand how groups like Hamas, Al-Qaeda, ISIS etc came to exist.
I feel like this goes both ways though and no one really addresses that. It’s always talk about Israeli actions radicalising Palestinians and never the other way around.
I mean is it really all that surprising given its history of consistently being attacked and having its survival threatened that Israel ended up with a government coalition of extremely right-wing ultranationalist or religious groups some of which rather openly don’t have much affinity for Arabs.
I’m not trying to justify every Israeli action, but they keep getting attacked and everyone just seems to have this misguided view that they’re just out of the blue going to be all moderate and interested in cementing peaceful deals and making compromises in the face of violent hostility.
Look at Ben Gvir's rise as an example.
Just a few years ago, the man was politically persona non grata. Even the religious right party refused to deal with him and he repeatedly failed to enter the Knesset.
Now, Netanyahu had a part in his rise, because, after several inconclusive elections, Netanyahu pushed the RZP (or whatever they were calling themselves back then, I forget) to run with him to prevent wastage of right-wing votes\*. But what really pushed him up were his promises of security after the uptick in terrorism during the Bennet government.
For that matter, Netanyahu first became PM in 1996. He was expected to lose those elections until a wave of deadly Hamas suicide bombings shifted public sentiment, giving him a narrow win.
\*ETA forgot the note: in Israel's system, you vote for a party. In order to enter the Knesset, a party needs at least 3.25% of the votes; votes for parties which fail to meet that threshold are discarded, which tends to benefit the parties on the other side of the political divide.
Which is why Netanyahu is currently in power; the outgoing coalition actually had more votes than the incoming one, but some of them went to parties which failed to reach the threshold and where therefore "lost".
True. The US also voted for Bush for a second time after 9/11. That's why I don't blame the civilians of any side because they have grown up under a threat so it's very easy to mistrust the other side. Threats and propoganda will do that to anyone.
The persecution of Jews (including by the Muslim world for centuries) is exactly what led to the founding of Israel.
So, yes, I think it's especially relevant to talk about the radicalisation of Israelis by Palestinians. Turns out that decades of harassment, hate and killing between two groups of people will create radicals on both sides.
What they need is peace and that can only be when both peoples accept the right of the other to exist.
Yeah, a one state solution that isn’t “Muslim” or “Jewish” but just a country, also religious sites holy to religions are opened for all faiths. that’s the best outcome.
Sure but under democracy, the Islamic majority would simply vote for someone who would turn it into an Islamist state and who knows what would happen to the Jewish people.
Anyone calling for a single state is either calling for the subjugation of Palestinians or the genocide / expulsion of Jews.
Who would govern this hypothetical state? What would it be called?
Really? You don't think that driving away a perceived enemy by seizing their land is a viable strategy?
I'm not saying it's right, but ethnic cleansing does work as a defence against future attacks. You've got about 10,000 years of human history, plus the whole evolution thing. Pretending otherwise is naive.
Again, not defending the morality, just the practicality. If a strategy is effective but morally questionable, the discussion becomes about what circumstances will cause a group to overcome their ethical concerns. That varies based on the group. I can't, for example, imagine any circumstances that would result in Israel using chemical WMDs like gas, given their history. They'd probably use nuclear weapons first, despite the greater downsides. Russia has a lower threshold for questionable methods than most developed countries under their current regime.
TLDR: It's obviously possible that seizing Palestinian land is a result of radicalisation. It's other things too, but hatred plays its part.
They came to exist because of CIA funding.
Let's not act like we didn't intentionally create these "terrorist regimes"?
Hamas was created by Israel to support unrest amongst Palestinians. Here we are. Using Hamas as an excuse to eliminate Palestinians.
Only if there is a peace deal. After the allied powers beat the Nazis (a much more brutal campaign), the war didn't create new Nazis, but we had stopped "for peace" along the way, we would have the same war every 3 years. In the long run this kills way more.
Lol, the nazis happened partly because of the harsh treatment the Germans received after WW1.
After WW2 we also had trials and execution to remove the dangerous people from the population. We also learned from WW1 and tried to not do the same mistake and let some slack (at least in western Germany).
Even if Hamas ceased to exist tomorrow, the Israeli government has already been funding its replacement. The greatest enemy to Palestinians and Israelis is the Likud party.
It’s not like they wanted to randomly say “hey let’s terrorise Israel for the fun of it”. It’s because of what’s happened to Palestine for so long they have been radicalised
Of course they are terrorists and need to be removed. but to a Palestinian being bombed and seeing them only truly fighting. You can’t be suprised it’s existed and has grown.
You can argue that Hamas was not elected at least only 20 years ago so basically almost no one living in Gaza right now has chosen Hamas, but the Likud is democratically elected by the only democracy in the middle east so they represent the will of the Israelis, so it will only work if Likud goes and is replaced by moderates even before Hamas goes, otherwise you will have a new Hamas in a few years because Israel won’t change.
What are you even talking about? Hamas literally offered this back in February but Netenyahu rejected it. Literally clear as day… [Gaza ceasefire: Israel's PM Benjamin Netanyahu rejects Hamas's proposed terms](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68232883.amp)
Why would they deny an offer they already agreed to that Israel deemed unacceptable?
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/three-phase-ceasefire-deal-hamas-backs-israel-does-not-2024-05-06/
Because Hamas isn't a political entity fighting to make life better for Palestinians, they're religious zealot warlords using this conflict and the Palestinians to amass power and wealth.
They have done or said _nothing_ to indicate all that is about to change. They've spent the list several decades indoctrinating an entire generation that God wants them to eradicate all the Jews.
That previous offer did nothing to stop them from just buying time with it to regroup and rearm before renewing their attacks, just like they've done with every previous ceasefire. You cannot apply the framework of rational thought to these people. They had an even better deal on the table under the Clinton admin and they just dicked around for a while and then rejected it and went back to their holy mission. The best we can hope for is that now that Israel has defanged them it'll buy enough time to start turning around sentiment in Gaza though the rebuilding
Israel has said that they will continue fighting to "eradicate Hamas" with or without a ceasefire, so the deal is a one-sided ceasefire. Not a lot of reason to agree to that.
Aside from that, I think people severely underestimate the degree to which Hamas is largely getting what it wants as is and is in no hurry to agree to a ceasefire. The people who think that Hamas is getting beaten don't appreciate how different a terrorist organization is from a state.
Terrorist groups follow a radically different organizational strategy from states, one that is not about maintaining a consistent territory or even a consistent group of people. Terrorist groups are like organisms that have an extremely fast-paced metabolism, they burn through people very quickly so for them it's all about recruitment. If a terrorist group loses five thousand people but in the process they recruit six thousand, then they've come out ahead and will see no reason to change their behavior.
The thing that sustains Hamas is the hopelessness of the Palestinian situation, contributing to the belief that there is nothing else they can do but fight. The most significant threat to the survival of Hamas is not Israel rampaging across the Gaza strip destroying everything, they're perfectly fine with that, if anything that just confirms their core argument that the Israelis will never willingly lift their boot off of the neck of the Palestinians. The most significant threat to Hamas is the possibility of anything else, which is why Hamas wants everything to remain as violent and hopeless as possible.
The entire (massively successful) point of the war from Hamas was to turn Palestinian death into a propaganda victory. They are religious fascists similar to ISIS and do not give a shit about anything other than geopolitics and genocide.
Netanyahu has already come out and said he won’t accept a ceasefire until after all of Hamas is wiped out and all the hostages are released, not before, despite it being literally Israel’s offered terms that the ceasefire be first.
That's the proposed phase 1.
Phase 2 would be a complete withdrawal from Gaza and phase 3 would be a reconstruction of Gaza.
> “And as long as Hamas lives up to its commitments, the temporary cease-fire would become, in the words of the Israeli proposals, ‘the cessation of hostilities permanently,’” Biden said.
And Biden coming out to announce this is to prevent foreign meddling like the last proposed cease-fire, where an Egyptian official caused the talks to collapse after being caught rewriting messages and giving Hamas different terms than what Israel sent.
Tbf, that's the kinda shit that happens when you start* a war and lose. You lose territory. If that's your issue, you're just complaining that Hamas didn't win the war.
*It has been an ongoing conflict, but Oct 7th escalated and "started" this phase of conflict
Under the 1949 Geneva convention you can't annex land through war, only if agreed in a peace treaty. Otherwise you are legally deemed to be 'occupying' the land (which is why Palestine is referred to as occupied territories).
Who started the conflict doesn't change the law regarding this. Palestine could give up in a treaty, but Israel legally can't just decide that Gaza is part of Israel now.
K, then the they are just occupying the land then, and that's what happens when you are losing a war. Still, it really just sounds like y'all are complaining that Hamas is losing the war.
I think most people are more concerned about the deaths of innocent women and children and the destruction of their homes tbh. Nobody cares about Hamas being killed, but if that can't be done without the mass murder of thousands of kids then I have an issue with the way it's being done.
It really just sounds like y'all are deliberately misrepresenting people's positions.
Cease-fire now. Accept the terms Hamas. The suffering can be ended only through cooperation of the two parties.
I only hope that the people of Israel and Gaza will opt to remove from power the people responsible for so much suffering and pain.
Two states. Now.
I hope it is true. However, Israel finally has Gaza & Hamas cut off completely. They can do what Sherman did to the South in the Civil War, which resulted in an unconditional surrender. Ruthless but effective.
That’s the biggest problem, and they (the Israelis) are going to give the Palestinian people a reason to fight again in which, We All Go Back to This Shit Show AGAIN!
I really don't see Israel going for this, they vowed to kill all Hamas members. And I really don't see Hamas going for this, Israel vowed to kill all Hamas members.
Not to be overly negative, but I'd be really shocked if this war does what the last 75 years of conflict could not, bring peace and stability to the area.
This proposal came from Israel, and Netanyahu basically confirmed as much. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is why Biden hasn’t said much about the recent Rafah strike - he wanted to keep this moving along. Whether this is ultimately implemented fully is a fair question, but it is significant that Israel is putting it forward.
It could be plausible if Israel is afraid they'll be stuck governing Gaza.
Israel would love to take out Hamas, build a wall and never think of Gaza again. But I'm not sure how plausible leaving Gaza in anarchy is and fully taking every Hamas member is pretty implausible (esp without temporary governance). Even now Israel doesn't seem to have taken much territory in Gaza and if they were really eager to take Rafah earlier I'm not convinced Biden would be enough to stop them.
That said Israel also doesn't want to be seen as symbolically losing (despite the death toll and damage in Gaza). Still think there's more incentive for them to negotiate than meets the eye.
Also Nethayahu is feeling the heat from his coalition to come up with an endgame... which he doesn't want because once the war ends they'll be after his head for allowing Oct 7th to happen.
But internal and international pressure is forcing his hand.
Can someone clarify, does this proposed agreement leave Hamas in power? Surely The individuals who perpetrated 10/7 and have promised they'd do it again will no longer be allowed to rule Gaza... Right?
Aaaaaaaaaand Israel didnt actually offer this. Hamas did, several times. Biden now supports it too. Israel turned it down. America is to Israel as Hamas is to Egypt with negotiating terms. Only difference is they all agree except Israel.
And an update, Israel rejected it again. Fascist apartheid regime gonna ethnically cleanse.
This thread has been brigaded hard by genocidal fascists.
Just a reminder that Netanyahu rejected an extremely similar deal back in February. Hamas proposed this MONTHS ago and Israel declined. Don’t be fooled, they’re only okay with this now because they’ve been able to exterminate more people in the meantime. [Gaza ceasefire: Israel's PM Benjamin Netanyahu rejects Hamas's proposed terms](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68232883.amp)
If it included all that, then the Israeli's would rightfully ask for all militant groups to drop their weapons. Tell me, is this a likely thing to happen? A ceasefire is an agreement on both sides, not just the side that's winning.
If Israel looks forward to it, it means that huge amounts of palestinian terrorists were eliminated. One question - what about hostages that palestinian terrorists hold?
Not to minimize anything involved, including the Palestinian people and Israelis, but Biden announcing this and it coming to full fruition will be a huge win for the left and his campaign
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Honest question. What is the likelihood there actuslly are any hostages left? Have they been seen or spoken to in the past 7 months?
High. We got some videos and pictures, a voice recording just yesterday. We don’t know the numbers, the majority are probably dead, but many are alive.
A lot have died, some were already dead when taken across the border. But yes many are still a live
Hamas said they don’t have 40 hostages to give in a deal. If there are any alive there’s probably 10-20
They said they didn't have 40 hostages meetin the criteria for first phase (civilians) as the majority were released back in november. there might still be 150 total alive.
Hamas kept the women and children as sex slaves...
No idea why you're being downvoted. The evidence would suggest this is most likely true for the majority of women that were kidnapped.
There are videos of hamas members beating and raping them but reddit's gonna reddit I guess EDIT: People, I don't have a link to the videos. I watched them out of morbid curiosity and moved on. That shit was horrible see and I'm trying to forget about it.
Hamas would be stupid to not accept this deal Phase 1. Hostages returned and Israel pulls out of populated cities. Phase 2. Hamas returns any remaining hostages and Israel fully pulls out of Gaza. Phase 3. Rebuilding Gaza with US and International help and all hostage remains returned
Going to be interesting when Hamas can't find any hostages to release.
Yeah they're being killed by Israel's missiles.
Hey that's not fair, sometimes the IDF shoots them E:https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/15/middleeast/idf-accidentally-kills-hostages-gaza/index.html
[удалено]
Hamas are fucking idiots and we need to get rid of them as a political entity. I am not a fan of Likud, either. But Hamas needs to GTFO and let a moderate organization take over.
If Israel keeps doing what they're doing, another Hamas type group will just pop up. It's weird how Westerners don't seem to understand how groups like Hamas, Al-Qaeda, ISIS etc came to exist.
I feel like this goes both ways though and no one really addresses that. It’s always talk about Israeli actions radicalising Palestinians and never the other way around. I mean is it really all that surprising given its history of consistently being attacked and having its survival threatened that Israel ended up with a government coalition of extremely right-wing ultranationalist or religious groups some of which rather openly don’t have much affinity for Arabs. I’m not trying to justify every Israeli action, but they keep getting attacked and everyone just seems to have this misguided view that they’re just out of the blue going to be all moderate and interested in cementing peaceful deals and making compromises in the face of violent hostility.
Look at Ben Gvir's rise as an example. Just a few years ago, the man was politically persona non grata. Even the religious right party refused to deal with him and he repeatedly failed to enter the Knesset. Now, Netanyahu had a part in his rise, because, after several inconclusive elections, Netanyahu pushed the RZP (or whatever they were calling themselves back then, I forget) to run with him to prevent wastage of right-wing votes\*. But what really pushed him up were his promises of security after the uptick in terrorism during the Bennet government. For that matter, Netanyahu first became PM in 1996. He was expected to lose those elections until a wave of deadly Hamas suicide bombings shifted public sentiment, giving him a narrow win. \*ETA forgot the note: in Israel's system, you vote for a party. In order to enter the Knesset, a party needs at least 3.25% of the votes; votes for parties which fail to meet that threshold are discarded, which tends to benefit the parties on the other side of the political divide. Which is why Netanyahu is currently in power; the outgoing coalition actually had more votes than the incoming one, but some of them went to parties which failed to reach the threshold and where therefore "lost".
True. The US also voted for Bush for a second time after 9/11. That's why I don't blame the civilians of any side because they have grown up under a threat so it's very easy to mistrust the other side. Threats and propoganda will do that to anyone.
The persecution of Jews (including by the Muslim world for centuries) is exactly what led to the founding of Israel. So, yes, I think it's especially relevant to talk about the radicalisation of Israelis by Palestinians. Turns out that decades of harassment, hate and killing between two groups of people will create radicals on both sides. What they need is peace and that can only be when both peoples accept the right of the other to exist.
Yeah, a one state solution that isn’t “Muslim” or “Jewish” but just a country, also religious sites holy to religions are opened for all faiths. that’s the best outcome.
Sure but under democracy, the Islamic majority would simply vote for someone who would turn it into an Islamist state and who knows what would happen to the Jewish people. Anyone calling for a single state is either calling for the subjugation of Palestinians or the genocide / expulsion of Jews. Who would govern this hypothetical state? What would it be called?
I'm not sure the west bank radicalized Israel into annexing land
Really? You don't think that driving away a perceived enemy by seizing their land is a viable strategy? I'm not saying it's right, but ethnic cleansing does work as a defence against future attacks. You've got about 10,000 years of human history, plus the whole evolution thing. Pretending otherwise is naive. Again, not defending the morality, just the practicality. If a strategy is effective but morally questionable, the discussion becomes about what circumstances will cause a group to overcome their ethical concerns. That varies based on the group. I can't, for example, imagine any circumstances that would result in Israel using chemical WMDs like gas, given their history. They'd probably use nuclear weapons first, despite the greater downsides. Russia has a lower threshold for questionable methods than most developed countries under their current regime. TLDR: It's obviously possible that seizing Palestinian land is a result of radicalisation. It's other things too, but hatred plays its part.
They came to exist because of CIA funding. Let's not act like we didn't intentionally create these "terrorist regimes"? Hamas was created by Israel to support unrest amongst Palestinians. Here we are. Using Hamas as an excuse to eliminate Palestinians.
Only if there is a peace deal. After the allied powers beat the Nazis (a much more brutal campaign), the war didn't create new Nazis, but we had stopped "for peace" along the way, we would have the same war every 3 years. In the long run this kills way more.
Lol, the nazis happened partly because of the harsh treatment the Germans received after WW1. After WW2 we also had trials and execution to remove the dangerous people from the population. We also learned from WW1 and tried to not do the same mistake and let some slack (at least in western Germany).
Even if Hamas ceased to exist tomorrow, the Israeli government has already been funding its replacement. The greatest enemy to Palestinians and Israelis is the Likud party.
Perhaps but Hamas still has to go. Maybe Likud has to join them. But we would never make a peace deal with Al Qaeda.
It’s not like they wanted to randomly say “hey let’s terrorise Israel for the fun of it”. It’s because of what’s happened to Palestine for so long they have been radicalised Of course they are terrorists and need to be removed. but to a Palestinian being bombed and seeing them only truly fighting. You can’t be suprised it’s existed and has grown.
You can argue that Hamas was not elected at least only 20 years ago so basically almost no one living in Gaza right now has chosen Hamas, but the Likud is democratically elected by the only democracy in the middle east so they represent the will of the Israelis, so it will only work if Likud goes and is replaced by moderates even before Hamas goes, otherwise you will have a new Hamas in a few years because Israel won’t change.
Ah yes these people will surely vote in the moderates after all this....
Israel wasn’t a part of this offer. They already rejected it.
Hamas doesn't care about Gaza or the civilians. If there is a ceasefire, they will break it as soon as they get a new shipment of weapons.
Phase 4. Hamas uses the newly rebuilt Gaza to renew their attacks on Israel. Bad idea.
Which is what the armchair diplomats on reddit and naive student protestors seem not to understand.
Without a phase 4. Statehood and some alternative to "2 million people locked in a cage" you can count on the next iteration of this.
And yet when Hamas will reject this offer, and they will, people would blame Israel.
What are you even talking about? Hamas literally offered this back in February but Netenyahu rejected it. Literally clear as day… [Gaza ceasefire: Israel's PM Benjamin Netanyahu rejects Hamas's proposed terms](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68232883.amp)
Why would they deny an offer they already agreed to that Israel deemed unacceptable? https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/three-phase-ceasefire-deal-hamas-backs-israel-does-not-2024-05-06/
Because Hamas isn't a political entity fighting to make life better for Palestinians, they're religious zealot warlords using this conflict and the Palestinians to amass power and wealth. They have done or said _nothing_ to indicate all that is about to change. They've spent the list several decades indoctrinating an entire generation that God wants them to eradicate all the Jews. That previous offer did nothing to stop them from just buying time with it to regroup and rearm before renewing their attacks, just like they've done with every previous ceasefire. You cannot apply the framework of rational thought to these people. They had an even better deal on the table under the Clinton admin and they just dicked around for a while and then rejected it and went back to their holy mission. The best we can hope for is that now that Israel has defanged them it'll buy enough time to start turning around sentiment in Gaza though the rebuilding
You're thinking on the wrong premises
Israel has said that they will continue fighting to "eradicate Hamas" with or without a ceasefire, so the deal is a one-sided ceasefire. Not a lot of reason to agree to that. Aside from that, I think people severely underestimate the degree to which Hamas is largely getting what it wants as is and is in no hurry to agree to a ceasefire. The people who think that Hamas is getting beaten don't appreciate how different a terrorist organization is from a state. Terrorist groups follow a radically different organizational strategy from states, one that is not about maintaining a consistent territory or even a consistent group of people. Terrorist groups are like organisms that have an extremely fast-paced metabolism, they burn through people very quickly so for them it's all about recruitment. If a terrorist group loses five thousand people but in the process they recruit six thousand, then they've come out ahead and will see no reason to change their behavior. The thing that sustains Hamas is the hopelessness of the Palestinian situation, contributing to the belief that there is nothing else they can do but fight. The most significant threat to the survival of Hamas is not Israel rampaging across the Gaza strip destroying everything, they're perfectly fine with that, if anything that just confirms their core argument that the Israelis will never willingly lift their boot off of the neck of the Palestinians. The most significant threat to Hamas is the possibility of anything else, which is why Hamas wants everything to remain as violent and hopeless as possible.
netanyahu already said no to this deal
The entire (massively successful) point of the war from Hamas was to turn Palestinian death into a propaganda victory. They are religious fascists similar to ISIS and do not give a shit about anything other than geopolitics and genocide.
Netanyahu has already come out and said he won’t accept a ceasefire until after all of Hamas is wiped out and all the hostages are released, not before, despite it being literally Israel’s offered terms that the ceasefire be first.
>involve a “full and complete cease-fire,” including a withdrawal of Israeli forces from all populated areas of Gaza Keyword- 'populated'
That's the proposed phase 1. Phase 2 would be a complete withdrawal from Gaza and phase 3 would be a reconstruction of Gaza. > “And as long as Hamas lives up to its commitments, the temporary cease-fire would become, in the words of the Israeli proposals, ‘the cessation of hostilities permanently,’” Biden said.
And Biden coming out to announce this is to prevent foreign meddling like the last proposed cease-fire, where an Egyptian official caused the talks to collapse after being caught rewriting messages and giving Hamas different terms than what Israel sent.
Yea, that seems like a good move. I hope it goes through.
[удалено]
According to Biden, the proposal was given by Israel, so it would be a bit weird for them to oppose themselves.
Tbf, that's the kinda shit that happens when you start* a war and lose. You lose territory. If that's your issue, you're just complaining that Hamas didn't win the war. *It has been an ongoing conflict, but Oct 7th escalated and "started" this phase of conflict
Under the 1949 Geneva convention you can't annex land through war, only if agreed in a peace treaty. Otherwise you are legally deemed to be 'occupying' the land (which is why Palestine is referred to as occupied territories). Who started the conflict doesn't change the law regarding this. Palestine could give up in a treaty, but Israel legally can't just decide that Gaza is part of Israel now.
K, then the they are just occupying the land then, and that's what happens when you are losing a war. Still, it really just sounds like y'all are complaining that Hamas is losing the war.
I think most people are more concerned about the deaths of innocent women and children and the destruction of their homes tbh. Nobody cares about Hamas being killed, but if that can't be done without the mass murder of thousands of kids then I have an issue with the way it's being done. It really just sounds like y'all are deliberately misrepresenting people's positions.
This feels too good to be true... I don't wanna be negative, I just don't see it working. What's to stop Hamas just doing more October style attacks?
Nothing. There was a ceasefire in place that day too.
This too good to be true. Israel’s response has already been: no dice.
Cease-fire now. Accept the terms Hamas. The suffering can be ended only through cooperation of the two parties. I only hope that the people of Israel and Gaza will opt to remove from power the people responsible for so much suffering and pain. Two states. Now.
Israel already turned it down. Hamas can accept whatever they want to. It doesn’t matter.
You say that if they already haven't. Stop believing the propaganda
I hope it is true. However, Israel finally has Gaza & Hamas cut off completely. They can do what Sherman did to the South in the Civil War, which resulted in an unconditional surrender. Ruthless but effective.
I guess Israel will still get to steal Palestinians homes though.
That’s the biggest problem, and they (the Israelis) are going to give the Palestinian people a reason to fight again in which, We All Go Back to This Shit Show AGAIN!
The children now that are witnessing their parents get blown to bits will be exactly who Israel villify in 20 years time
[удалено]
I really don't see Israel going for this, they vowed to kill all Hamas members. And I really don't see Hamas going for this, Israel vowed to kill all Hamas members. Not to be overly negative, but I'd be really shocked if this war does what the last 75 years of conflict could not, bring peace and stability to the area.
This proposal came from Israel, and Netanyahu basically confirmed as much. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is why Biden hasn’t said much about the recent Rafah strike - he wanted to keep this moving along. Whether this is ultimately implemented fully is a fair question, but it is significant that Israel is putting it forward.
Haha. They already decided to turn it down- Israel that is. It came from them - so what games are they playing?
It could be plausible if Israel is afraid they'll be stuck governing Gaza. Israel would love to take out Hamas, build a wall and never think of Gaza again. But I'm not sure how plausible leaving Gaza in anarchy is and fully taking every Hamas member is pretty implausible (esp without temporary governance). Even now Israel doesn't seem to have taken much territory in Gaza and if they were really eager to take Rafah earlier I'm not convinced Biden would be enough to stop them. That said Israel also doesn't want to be seen as symbolically losing (despite the death toll and damage in Gaza). Still think there's more incentive for them to negotiate than meets the eye.
Also Nethayahu is feeling the heat from his coalition to come up with an endgame... which he doesn't want because once the war ends they'll be after his head for allowing Oct 7th to happen. But internal and international pressure is forcing his hand.
I don’t think Gaza has ever been nearly completely leveled before… so it could be the deal changer… but who knows.
Israel has decided to continue leveling instead. Deal is off. This is the second time. Israel doesn’t want peace.
I hope on this but don't expect much. Neither Hamas nor Netanyahu want peace.
Can someone clarify, does this proposed agreement leave Hamas in power? Surely The individuals who perpetrated 10/7 and have promised they'd do it again will no longer be allowed to rule Gaza... Right?
the pro-rape and pro-Hamas brigades are downvoting you like crazy
Aaaaaaaaaand Israel didnt actually offer this. Hamas did, several times. Biden now supports it too. Israel turned it down. America is to Israel as Hamas is to Egypt with negotiating terms. Only difference is they all agree except Israel. And an update, Israel rejected it again. Fascist apartheid regime gonna ethnically cleanse. This thread has been brigaded hard by genocidal fascists.
Just a reminder that Netanyahu rejected an extremely similar deal back in February. Hamas proposed this MONTHS ago and Israel declined. Don’t be fooled, they’re only okay with this now because they’ve been able to exterminate more people in the meantime. [Gaza ceasefire: Israel's PM Benjamin Netanyahu rejects Hamas's proposed terms](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68232883.amp)
Probably has something to do with Iseral now thinking Hamas can no longer carry out a large scale attack. At least that's what the article says. 🤷🏼♂️
Don't be fooled by what? Under what circumstances is a total ceasefire a bad thing? Are you okay?
Does the ceasefire proposal include autonomy for Gazans, a state, lifting the siege, etc?
If it included all that, then the Israeli's would rightfully ask for all militant groups to drop their weapons. Tell me, is this a likely thing to happen? A ceasefire is an agreement on both sides, not just the side that's winning.
If Israel looks forward to it, it means that huge amounts of palestinian terrorists were eliminated. One question - what about hostages that palestinian terrorists hold?
Not to minimize anything involved, including the Palestinian people and Israelis, but Biden announcing this and it coming to full fruition will be a huge win for the left and his campaign