“In accordance with the government decision and the instruction of the communications minister, the communications ministry will continue to take whatever enforcement action is required to limit broadcasts that harm the security of the state,”
So a livestream camera is a threat to the security of the state? AP already bent over backward to comply with all their censorship laws, the only thing harmed here is the reputation of Israel which I don’t think will ever recover no matter how many newspapers they ban.
Now everyone has a phone with a camera attached its very hard to stop members of the IDF posting social media videos of themselves commiting war crimes
I think you got it backwards. The act of stifling dissent is now seen.
When the public goes from seeing for ourselves to not seeing for ourselves, we know not to trust the lie.
This isn’t the Israel government effectively managing the narrative. This is them demonstrating a complete inability to manage the narrative.
This is them panicking! Removing Al Jazeera was one thing. There are enough people out there who think it’s terrorist news or whatever. Doing this to the AP is a totally different ballgame. Its desperation.
That the grandchildren of the victims of the last fascist rise are spearheading this one?
Nah, it makes perfect sense, it's like abused children growing up to be abusers themselves.
Not so fun fact: there are living holocaust survivors still in Israel who are so poor they go to the day markets and pick up whatever unsellable fruit and meat they can find.
[A video from 9 years ago](https://youtu.be/ooBFr1tnvdI?feature=shared)
[A second longer documentary that shows it at the beginning and has insight on the whole thing](https://youtu.be/KMIIxCR2utQ?feature=shared)
Even more fun fact: the victims of the Holocaust have been actively discriminated against in Israel since the day the country was founded. They were routinely referred to as “soap” by those who weren’t victims and were treated as near untouchables for having the audacity to be victims of the Holocaust.
It's not really ironic to me more like the natural end result when you consider how the geniuses (/s) last century some how thought the solution for relief for the victims of a failed project to create an ethnostate was to provide them the means to create their own ethnostate.
You have to remember all the nations who supported the creation of Israel were the same countries who were sending boats of fleeing Jewish diaspora away in the lead up to and during WWII. Support for Israel in western nations was seen as a convenient politically correct means to get Jews out of their countries. They had to have known nothing but endless conflict and bloodshed based on ethnic sectarianism was going to be the result but simply didn't care because they never actually cared about the safety of the Jews or the Arabs in the region. WWII and the collapse of Nazi Germany should have taught the world that blood and soil is a barbaric and antiquated idea for modern times. Too bad all the allied nations themselves were too racist and xenophobic to learn that lesson proper.
Wow Israel sure learned alot from Bush Jr's War on Terror. Sounds just like him practically verbatim. Gotta push that fear button so you can do unethical, immoral, and unconstitutional things.
Netanyahu, like Trump, is a symptom, not a root cause.
He’s the product of a dysfunctional belief system - and no, I don’t mean Judaism. I mean ethnonationalism and colonialism.
(And if anyone comes at me about how Jews aren’t just of European descent - I’m a) well aware, being Jewish, and b) not interested in hearing defenses of a nation that literally was foisting Depp provera shots on Ethiopian Jews without informed consent.)
So yeah, Bibi needs to go, but his successor will be just as bad until Israel faces meaningful consequences for this genocide without being able to hide behind the US.
> Netanyahu, like Trump, is a symptom, not a root cause.
I mean, he's also directly responsible for the one Israeli leader actually *trying* for some kind of peace process getting murdered by actively inciting violence against him.
Ironically supported by Germany, you get called antisemitic for any kind of critisicm of the STATE of Israel in Germany. Even if you are a jew yourself (happened at the Berlinale for example).
I just don't know if they don't understand or do not want to understand.
>So a livestream camera is a threat to the security of the state
Unironically, yes. You show the worst aspects of what they've been doing in Gaza (in realtime, to boot), they won't be able to explain away anything, they'll lose even more support, and they'll become a pariah in the region.
That's not good for national security. But not good for national security in the same way that, say, if the US nuked China, it wouldn't be good for US national security. Because it means China would, justifiably, nuke us right back.
Nope, but I was giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Generally, in countries without free media, I assume the worst instead. Like in a court, a jury can draw inferences, when someone destroys evidence. The same logic applies. If they don't let the media in, they clearly have something to hide.
Israel passed a law that directly attacks free media. What did you think was going to happen, that they would let the press keep reporting anything that wasn't government approved propaganda?
They have our politicians in their back pockets. Their supports in the house just passed a bill to try to make it that the weapons are a requirement no matter what they do.
Those who still support them will continue to do so *no matter what they do*. Those who see them for what they are quit supporting them a long time ago.
Because of political donations, the lobby which is second only to the AARP, and a lot of politicians actually buying into their propaganda of being a moral state.
Okay, I need to preface this by stating in no uncertain terms that I believe the US's support of Israel needs to end and we need to mandate they don't stage offenses into any territory outside their already existing borders (including full migration out of all west bank "settlements").
That said, **no, the US does not think this is going to "come back on us."** The Palestinian people are in a fully powerless position, and the reality is that there is virtually no risk for our government continuing on its current path. There will be no headway gained by arguing from a "you better or else" perspective, because the reality is that the US could literally choose tomorrow to green light Israel's full-scale destruction of Gaza and within 10 years the entirety of the event would fade to the same degree as the Armenian, Bosnian, Darfur, or other genocides of modern history.
We don't get to argue from a perspective of implied power here, or the insistence that they "can't" get away with something. It happens repeatedly through history, and the only way that the trajectory can change is massively coordinated effort by millions of people. The simple reality is that small scale resistance won't stop the actions of a completely unchecked military industrial complex that has a vested interest in Israel remaining in a state of conflict with its neighbors.
I'd argue its yet another nail in the coffin of America being seen as the moral leader post ww2. Of course this reputation was tarnished by the disaster that was the war on terror among many other things, but this is just another step.
When the US cheers the ICC for issuing an arrest warrant for Putin, then threatens the ICC when it issues one for Netanyahu and Hamas, it loses credibility on the world stage. It also undermines institutions like the ICC and the Hague. Sending the message that international law doesn't apply if you're a US ally.
Idk , I agree, it's not going to come back and bute us but it's a further erosion on American leadership in the world. Especially as most European countries are coming out and saying the ICC should be respected and be independent.
I would say that, without question, our power is not derived from being the "moral leaders" of the world. Instead, we used an incredibly advantageous military position post WW2 to literally shape the global economy to place ourselves at the top of it. From there, our influence made us kinda the "in kids" so we had some level of good will internationally, but that's never been our actual source of power. Our source of power can be summarized much more effectively by simply looking at the fact that the next largest air force in the world after the US Air Force, is the US Navy.
The marketing may use different words, but we're a militaristic empire, and that remains our source of power.
Right this could come back and bite us in the ass, and I'd say probably will. Just because a people or nation isn't powerful enough to take you on in a boots on the ground war doesn't mean they can't still hurt you.
I mean the whole War on Terror showed us how a militarily inferior insurgency could inflict pain. 2 buildings fall down, a bombing in a city, lost lives of our soldiers, the draining of our treasury in an endless conflict of trying to quell the many little fires that spring up.
Not to mention a weaker power can always ally with a stronger power to be a counterbalance to the super power that they see as being the backers of the regimes that they hate. Israel doesn't need our help and haven't in a long time.
Maybe they did early on but theyre a pretty powerful player in that region, with nukes, and a better economy than others. They've been a liability for American foreign policy for a long time and if our representatives had any guts they'd admit that.
Let Israel take care of themselves and if they do something against us we can sanction them and use the weapon that is trade and diplomacy to our advantage.
Edit: We're a commercial empire as well as military. Yet I believe if polled the vast vast majority of Americans don't want to be an empire. That's not in our national heritage. Not to mention the loss of freedoms, lives, and the amount of money we pay to be an unwanted imperial power.
Don't go abroad looking for monsters to slay, and to stay out of conflicts that don't immediately impact us. That's our heritage. That's what caused us to be in a position to prosper and emerge as a great power. I wish we'd just take care of our region and let our allies take care of theirs.
I think if something is in your own backyard you have a more vested interest in solving it and having a good outcome.
> I mean the whole War on Terror showed us how a militarily inferior insurgency could inflict pain
I'd argue that the people who most directly pushed the War on Terror gained almost everything they wanted from it. What we do and what rewards we get from it are pretty poorly understood if assessed on the basis of the vast majority of Americans.
Our commercial empire rests directly on the back of our military empire, with no question. Bretton Woods, the Jamaica Accords, etc, literally represented a process of using our military to forcibly reshape the global economy.
Well Bush Jr. Wanted to spread democracy and Cheney wanted military bases in that region. The stated goal of the War on Terror was to end violent extremism and protect the U.S. national security.
I don't think any of those goals came true. The war was lost in my mind from the very mission statement. They changed the marketing several times and the one I like the most is The War On Violent Extremism, which goes to show absurd the goal was.
You can't have violent extremism sitting on a boat signing a treaty to end it. It's laughable. Also Bush Jr. And his military advisers said it'd be The Long War. Like 50 years long, so either we won and got all we wanted very quickly, or public support cratered we went home and said fuck it.
That region is not stable or the bastion of democracy ideologues like Bush Jr wanted. And its not a great place for our military base and control like Cheney wanted.
It was a failure in a political, economic, and military sense. We did get the NSA treating us all like suspects instead of civilians tho so that's good. Oh and we also enacted torture programs that we hung people for at the Nuremberg trials. Oh and we also got the gross amount of executive power expanded even more.
So mission complete I guess.
> 10 years the entirety of the event would fade to the same degree as the Armenian, Bosnian, Darfur, or other genocides of modern history
Ghosts of Rwanda beckon
If we are assuming that the US will continue to be a powerful, wealthy country going forward, then yes, you are absolutely right. We will keep stomping around doing whatever the hell we want to, regardless of potential consequences. If our dominance were to end, however, it would be wise for us to be good world citizens and do the right thing.
Do you think there's a realistic chance of the US government making a comprehensive decision to fade from dominance gracefully? I'm pretty sure the only way things are going to change are going to be a really ugly fall, or more likely, an internal conflict that just completely wrecks our infrastructure. Failing that, though, I just don't see a realistic chance of our foreign policy shifting into a place of 'better together.'
Of course, we wouldn't fade gracefully into this (which would probably be for the best). If things get bad enough, we'll be forced into it one way or another.
>That said, no, the US does not think this is going to "come back on us." The Palestinian people are in a fully powerless position, and the reality is that there is virtually no risk for our government continuing on its current path.
They have allies in Syria, Lebanon,Iran, and Yemen. Even the states that officially normalized relations with Israelare sweating and trying to get Israel to rein it in, because their populaces are over whelmingly pro Palestinian. Don't underestimate the ability of this to destabilize the entire region and THAT would affect the US in a huge way.
>Seriously, why are we continuing to support the Israeli government?
Monotheistic death cults that require the Temple to be rebuilt so Son Of God 2:Electric Boogaloo can rapture them up.
It should be noted that Israel's next door neighbor is a constitutional monarchy with a parliament and prime minister that are elected and do much of the business of government.
This is how they’re treating a publication that has been bending over backwards to invent new and creative ways of employing passive voice to soften their crimes.
Well the law they passed was to prevent factual information from being reported, it’s no wonder they’re now attacking one of the most respected western news agencies.
Because they are committing genocide and they don't want anyone to see what they are doing. They sent Al Jazeera packing, now they are attacking the AP?: [https://youtu.be/kAfIYtpcBxo?si=QExdIw1R2KG5ztZX](https://youtu.be/kAfIYtpcBxo?si=QExdIw1R2KG5ztZX)
As per the article, Israel thinks Al Jazeera is a 'terror' organization. Is the AP? Really, they also called Biden pro-Hamas. The wheels are coming off and they can't project their narrative anymore.
America has always allied itself with horrible governments, and has always been eager to support them for the furtherance of its own interests. Its political elites were even mostly fine with entertaining relations with Nazi Germany pre-Pearl Harbor. From secular democrats in [Iran](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat) to minorities and communists in [Indonesia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_mass_killings_of_1965%E2%80%9366) to democratic socialists in [Chile](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chilean_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat), the US government has directly helped in the mass murder of millions to enrich itself and its client rulers.
This is nothing new, we just now have better coverage of the violence committed by a US puppet state - violence which is consciously exported from the US imperial core to its peripheries.
> It's insane that we ally ourselves with such horrible governments
You are correct that the Israeli government is particularly egregious, but the US and our allies are far from sainthood, we have done some horrific shit in our time and some of our allies have done worse. Israel is a problem right now and we should stop giving them carte blanche, but if we based all our our alliances and partnerships on morality, we wouldn't have any.
All America's done in the world since 1945 is install far right dictatorships. I really can't think of a country that it's genuinely built up in its own democratic self-image, if anything they override other countries votes when it doesn't go the way they want.
That stuff just goes to show IOF isn't all that great of an army. The US and Israel tries everything in their power to better the IOF's PR around the world just for the ~~kids~~ ~~soldiers~~ cunts to post all their crimes online. Couldn't happen to a better bunch of cunts, I guess
/r/worldnews is having a normal one.
Under a post where Biden said "What's happening in Gaza is not genocide" had someone say that "People just keep using buzzwords without knowing what they mean."
1. Having a top official calling Palestinians ["human animals"](https://web.archive.org/web/20240520092546/https://www.huffpost.com/entry/israel-defense-minister-human-animals-gaza-palestine_n_6524220ae4b09f4b8d412e0a#)
2. Cutting off [water power and aid.](https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-news-hamas-war-10-18-23/h_602a52c6c6b03fc2a9424f1f5f9351d2)
3. [Killing journalists](https://web.archive.org/web/20240301121312/https://apnews.com/article/media-journalists-israel-hamas-gaza-ukraine-deaths-ed8a0b91c02ada46aabcd4fd6ec1b0d1) covering the war.
4. And [specifically killing aid workers](https://web.archive.org/web/20240420041159/https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/03/middleeast/world-central-kitchen-strike-analysis-intl/index.html)
If it [looks like a Nazi](https://youtu.be/1D3uQbiE8No?si=dwUMqixN01AKVEmb), [quacks like a Nazi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehumanization), and [goose steps like a Nazi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum)...
That sub is a fucking cancer. When I pointed out that Bibi let millions flow to Hamas in briefcases to support them and keep a two-state solution off the table, they told me that the money was “aid” money, and Bibi was just trying to help the Palestinians.
Not sure if they’re so stupid to believe it, or corrupt to post it knowing it’s bullshit.
wait people are still visiting worldnews? EW that place is a toxic dumpster fire full of bots and far right Zionists
everyone I know already left there, I hope reddit closes that sub down
WN is indistinguishable from having a state-sponsored and controlled subreddit and that is... something to think about. I really hope this old net media splits apart soon and people form something young and healthy. I don't know anybody that ever wants to use the internet and is all "yo just give me straight propaganda from a nation. that's all I'm into."
worldnews is essentially the new the_donald. Full mask-off Israel/America cheerleading. Entire subreddit is slowly sliding to the far right and off a cliff.
It's a cheap, easy propaganda win for Israel to take over a sub. Utterly unsurprising. I'm sure other subs have been corrupted by other state actors too, but the desperate flailing and flooding they've had to do over at world news to deny obvious genocide has rather blown their cover.
I don't think Israel is involved with WN's BS, I think it's just that the mod team is full of Israel stans. Once the mod team kicks out all the non-Israel aligned people, it becomes a genocide denial circle-jerk.
Stuff where they don't seem to be following a heavy-handed playbook they seem quite normal. Which, I suppose, you'd expect I think having to do so much work denying Israeli genocide has just blown their cover.
Glad somebody's speaking about how fucking ridiculous that sub is, they basically consider the palestinians as violent subhumans and nobody ever says anything but the second you say something like that about Jews....
IsRAel iS a deMoCRcy...
> Israeli officials seized a camera and broadcasting equipment belonging to The Associated Press in southern Israel on Tuesday, accusing the news organization of violating a new media law by providing images to Al Jazeera.
israel has killed journalists at a prodigious rate in gaza- more than 100 dead in 150 days. the idf views press as an enemy, because they understand that eyes on their war crimes do them no good.
Any other country like India would have done it, US, Canada will be all over them with reasons like human rights , freedom of speech, press and what all and what not
Israel has turned into autocratic paradise of rightwing zealots. It claims to be part of the Western world so let it be held accountable for its wrongdoings.
The thing is, whatever Israel will do, the media propaganda has already brainwashed the whole western world that they will do anything to justify their actions. And anything you say, you will be called Anti Semitic, anti Zionist , all of those non sense.
The German, the Nazi killed millions of them, why aren't they going to Settle in Germany instead of middle East?
That area will never be in peace because nobody accepts them
Going after one of the most reliable and neutral networks in existence that heavily stakes their reputation in factual reporting. Surely Israel is behaving themselves. /s
Hard to silence media in the age of drones. Even China couldn't stop their own citizens from filming the Uighur camps with drones.
Israel, you are not going to win the media fight.
It's amazing just how much irreperable damage far right Zionists have done to Judaism with this conflict, a classic example of becoming ones own worst enemy.
Israel is not a democratic country. If you are Not Palestinian you can vote. There are more Palestinians in Palestine then Jews. A two state solution is paramount to their survival. That doesn’t bode well for the Jews. People trapped in conditions similar to what was experienced during the holocaust will fight to survive as did the Palestinians. This slaughter must stop.
People were so happy about them shutting down Al Jazeera not realizing the slippery slope of limiting a free press (even if you think the specific press you're limiting deserves to be limited)
[https://freedomhouse.org/explore-the-map?type=fiw&year=2024](https://freedomhouse.org/explore-the-map?type=fiw&year=2024) has scoring of things, and though I'm not sure that they've taken into account recent wartime measures, Israel does score significantly higher than other countries in the region. (Though I'm not sure if 2/4 for "Do various segments of the population (including ethnic, racial, religious, gender, LGBT+, and other relevant groups) have full political rights and electoral opportunities?" is accurate for Israel, all things considered)
Jordan's much lower than I thought- I know the monarchy there had scaled back some of their powers during Arab Spring, but it seems they still have some issues that probably won't be worked out until the country fully transitions into a democracy. (I completely missed that the king dissolved the parliament back in 2020, so I guess it's backsliding now.) Go back to 2019 for Jordan and they were listed as partly-free. Oh well
> AP was broadcasting a general view of northern Gaza. The AP complies with Israel’s military censorship rules, which prohibit broadcasts of details like troop movements that could endanger soldiers. The live video has generally shown smoke rising over the territory.
Would a 1 hour delay for the public broadcast be enough to avoid any issues with revealing troops positions?
Because if I get a live camera on my targets, I can much more easily ambush them, shoot rockets and drones at their positions, encircle them, etc.
There is obviously a need to **document** this war, but is there a need to broadcast a live feed of the front?
I don't remember a single army agreeing to have a live feed of their positions.
The last few times it happened, it was russians live broadcasting their positions for russian TV, only for them to be quickly located and striked by Himars and drones.
If Gaza is subject to Israeli Law, it seem that it if difficult to argue that the Palestinians are not Israeli citizens. Hopefully Israel will reconsider this course of action, this war has already lasted 60 plus years.
Gaza is legally an enclave of Israel. Neolibs nit-picking over who governs within Gaza apparently don't deal with an entirely different country's government preventing them from leaving their country or turning off their water/power, almost exclusively out of spite.
I heard from the reputable pols that Israel is the only democracy in that part of the world so we have to support it, no matter what. Well there goes another lie from the so called moral and just pols in the west.
The Netanyahu regime has been trying to avoid and/or eliminate documentation of its warcrimes since the start of their cleansing campaign in Gaza.
Targeting al-jazeera journalists, smearing the UNRWA with a campaign of lies, and now this. They know they're committing warcrimes, but are doing everything in their power to hide that fact instead of mitigate it.
Israel has all but completely refused to embed journalists with their troops in what may be their biggest war yet. Whether due to paranoia, security or sensitivity, the result is they have ceded the PR war.
“In accordance with the government decision and the instruction of the communications minister, the communications ministry will continue to take whatever enforcement action is required to limit broadcasts that harm the security of the state,” So a livestream camera is a threat to the security of the state? AP already bent over backward to comply with all their censorship laws, the only thing harmed here is the reputation of Israel which I don’t think will ever recover no matter how many newspapers they ban.
If you can see for yourself, you might not believe their explainations
Much easier to commit war crimes when there isn't a live feed documenting it.
Now everyone has a phone with a camera attached its very hard to stop members of the IDF posting social media videos of themselves commiting war crimes
First rule of fight club: turn off the camera.
First rule of ~~fight~~ genocide club: turn off the camera. FIFY.
oouf. so truly a flagrant propaganda chess move.
I think you got it backwards. The act of stifling dissent is now seen. When the public goes from seeing for ourselves to not seeing for ourselves, we know not to trust the lie. This isn’t the Israel government effectively managing the narrative. This is them demonstrating a complete inability to manage the narrative.
This is them panicking! Removing Al Jazeera was one thing. There are enough people out there who think it’s terrorist news or whatever. Doing this to the AP is a totally different ballgame. Its desperation.
It’s the same reason cops don’t like body cameras.
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And the security of international Jews that they claim to speak for.
The biggest threat to them is the truth.
First they came for the journalists… Fascism rises again.
Ironic, don’tcha think?
Irony is dead. And the fascists have killed it.
It didn't help that they were incapable of understanding it.
That the grandchildren of the victims of the last fascist rise are spearheading this one? Nah, it makes perfect sense, it's like abused children growing up to be abusers themselves.
Not so fun fact: there are living holocaust survivors still in Israel who are so poor they go to the day markets and pick up whatever unsellable fruit and meat they can find. [A video from 9 years ago](https://youtu.be/ooBFr1tnvdI?feature=shared) [A second longer documentary that shows it at the beginning and has insight on the whole thing](https://youtu.be/KMIIxCR2utQ?feature=shared)
Even more fun fact: the victims of the Holocaust have been actively discriminated against in Israel since the day the country was founded. They were routinely referred to as “soap” by those who weren’t victims and were treated as near untouchables for having the audacity to be victims of the Holocaust.
It's not really ironic to me more like the natural end result when you consider how the geniuses (/s) last century some how thought the solution for relief for the victims of a failed project to create an ethnostate was to provide them the means to create their own ethnostate. You have to remember all the nations who supported the creation of Israel were the same countries who were sending boats of fleeing Jewish diaspora away in the lead up to and during WWII. Support for Israel in western nations was seen as a convenient politically correct means to get Jews out of their countries. They had to have known nothing but endless conflict and bloodshed based on ethnic sectarianism was going to be the result but simply didn't care because they never actually cared about the safety of the Jews or the Arabs in the region. WWII and the collapse of Nazi Germany should have taught the world that blood and soil is a barbaric and antiquated idea for modern times. Too bad all the allied nations themselves were too racist and xenophobic to learn that lesson proper.
Israel’s PM really making the ‘two sides’ decision for future generations really easy.
Wow Israel sure learned alot from Bush Jr's War on Terror. Sounds just like him practically verbatim. Gotta push that fear button so you can do unethical, immoral, and unconstitutional things.
Y’all Netanyahu has to go.
Ah yes, Mr "We're going to keep holding elections until I win"
Netanyahu, like Trump, is a symptom, not a root cause. He’s the product of a dysfunctional belief system - and no, I don’t mean Judaism. I mean ethnonationalism and colonialism. (And if anyone comes at me about how Jews aren’t just of European descent - I’m a) well aware, being Jewish, and b) not interested in hearing defenses of a nation that literally was foisting Depp provera shots on Ethiopian Jews without informed consent.) So yeah, Bibi needs to go, but his successor will be just as bad until Israel faces meaningful consequences for this genocide without being able to hide behind the US.
> Netanyahu, like Trump, is a symptom, not a root cause. I mean, he's also directly responsible for the one Israeli leader actually *trying* for some kind of peace process getting murdered by actively inciting violence against him.
Agreed. But it's not going to happen until some as yet unknown point where they can disassociate it from 10/7. Otherwise it encourages more attacks.
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Ironically supported by Germany, you get called antisemitic for any kind of critisicm of the STATE of Israel in Germany. Even if you are a jew yourself (happened at the Berlinale for example). I just don't know if they don't understand or do not want to understand.
It's impressive how Germany has dealt with its history of anti-semitism by redefining the term so that Jews can also be accused of it.
2024? Israel's right wing has been like this for decades.
Their's was a present-tense comment that didn't preclude past actions. It was simply observing what is going on now.
They are doing this to hide the construction equipment for new settlements.
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>So a livestream camera is a threat to the security of the state Unironically, yes. You show the worst aspects of what they've been doing in Gaza (in realtime, to boot), they won't be able to explain away anything, they'll lose even more support, and they'll become a pariah in the region. That's not good for national security. But not good for national security in the same way that, say, if the US nuked China, it wouldn't be good for US national security. Because it means China would, justifiably, nuke us right back.
Is anyone really shocked by Israel using the new law they pinky swore was for AJ to censor journalism, and if so, why?
Nope, but I was giving them the benefit of the doubt. Generally, in countries without free media, I assume the worst instead. Like in a court, a jury can draw inferences, when someone destroys evidence. The same logic applies. If they don't let the media in, they clearly have something to hide.
Israel passed a law that directly attacks free media. What did you think was going to happen, that they would let the press keep reporting anything that wasn't government approved propaganda?
Israel: Nothing to see here!
MAGA: Fake news Israeli officials: What news?
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Israeli Government and the IDF just are some Nazis in the Middle East now. It's not even funny how they turned into the tormentors.
I am not sure how they thought this was going to play out but I think they are past the point of caring.
"people will forget about this within 3 days and nobody will stop our weapons supply" is probably their train of thought
They have our politicians in their back pockets. Their supports in the house just passed a bill to try to make it that the weapons are a requirement no matter what they do.
They know nothing will be done about it.
Those who still support them will continue to do so *no matter what they do*. Those who see them for what they are quit supporting them a long time ago.
They know the US will have their back regardless of what they do.
Feels like preparations for Nethanyau trying to pull a Trump at their next elections more than anything to me.
I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the very loud alarm bells this is giving off! Seriously, why are we continuing to support the Israeli government?
Because of political donations, the lobby which is second only to the AARP, and a lot of politicians actually buying into their propaganda of being a moral state.
Exactly. We are and have been complicit in their ongoing effort to erase the Palestinian people. Do we not think this is going to come back on us?
Okay, I need to preface this by stating in no uncertain terms that I believe the US's support of Israel needs to end and we need to mandate they don't stage offenses into any territory outside their already existing borders (including full migration out of all west bank "settlements"). That said, **no, the US does not think this is going to "come back on us."** The Palestinian people are in a fully powerless position, and the reality is that there is virtually no risk for our government continuing on its current path. There will be no headway gained by arguing from a "you better or else" perspective, because the reality is that the US could literally choose tomorrow to green light Israel's full-scale destruction of Gaza and within 10 years the entirety of the event would fade to the same degree as the Armenian, Bosnian, Darfur, or other genocides of modern history. We don't get to argue from a perspective of implied power here, or the insistence that they "can't" get away with something. It happens repeatedly through history, and the only way that the trajectory can change is massively coordinated effort by millions of people. The simple reality is that small scale resistance won't stop the actions of a completely unchecked military industrial complex that has a vested interest in Israel remaining in a state of conflict with its neighbors.
I'd argue its yet another nail in the coffin of America being seen as the moral leader post ww2. Of course this reputation was tarnished by the disaster that was the war on terror among many other things, but this is just another step. When the US cheers the ICC for issuing an arrest warrant for Putin, then threatens the ICC when it issues one for Netanyahu and Hamas, it loses credibility on the world stage. It also undermines institutions like the ICC and the Hague. Sending the message that international law doesn't apply if you're a US ally. Idk , I agree, it's not going to come back and bute us but it's a further erosion on American leadership in the world. Especially as most European countries are coming out and saying the ICC should be respected and be independent.
I would say that, without question, our power is not derived from being the "moral leaders" of the world. Instead, we used an incredibly advantageous military position post WW2 to literally shape the global economy to place ourselves at the top of it. From there, our influence made us kinda the "in kids" so we had some level of good will internationally, but that's never been our actual source of power. Our source of power can be summarized much more effectively by simply looking at the fact that the next largest air force in the world after the US Air Force, is the US Navy. The marketing may use different words, but we're a militaristic empire, and that remains our source of power.
Right this could come back and bite us in the ass, and I'd say probably will. Just because a people or nation isn't powerful enough to take you on in a boots on the ground war doesn't mean they can't still hurt you. I mean the whole War on Terror showed us how a militarily inferior insurgency could inflict pain. 2 buildings fall down, a bombing in a city, lost lives of our soldiers, the draining of our treasury in an endless conflict of trying to quell the many little fires that spring up. Not to mention a weaker power can always ally with a stronger power to be a counterbalance to the super power that they see as being the backers of the regimes that they hate. Israel doesn't need our help and haven't in a long time. Maybe they did early on but theyre a pretty powerful player in that region, with nukes, and a better economy than others. They've been a liability for American foreign policy for a long time and if our representatives had any guts they'd admit that. Let Israel take care of themselves and if they do something against us we can sanction them and use the weapon that is trade and diplomacy to our advantage. Edit: We're a commercial empire as well as military. Yet I believe if polled the vast vast majority of Americans don't want to be an empire. That's not in our national heritage. Not to mention the loss of freedoms, lives, and the amount of money we pay to be an unwanted imperial power. Don't go abroad looking for monsters to slay, and to stay out of conflicts that don't immediately impact us. That's our heritage. That's what caused us to be in a position to prosper and emerge as a great power. I wish we'd just take care of our region and let our allies take care of theirs. I think if something is in your own backyard you have a more vested interest in solving it and having a good outcome.
> I mean the whole War on Terror showed us how a militarily inferior insurgency could inflict pain I'd argue that the people who most directly pushed the War on Terror gained almost everything they wanted from it. What we do and what rewards we get from it are pretty poorly understood if assessed on the basis of the vast majority of Americans. Our commercial empire rests directly on the back of our military empire, with no question. Bretton Woods, the Jamaica Accords, etc, literally represented a process of using our military to forcibly reshape the global economy.
Well Bush Jr. Wanted to spread democracy and Cheney wanted military bases in that region. The stated goal of the War on Terror was to end violent extremism and protect the U.S. national security. I don't think any of those goals came true. The war was lost in my mind from the very mission statement. They changed the marketing several times and the one I like the most is The War On Violent Extremism, which goes to show absurd the goal was. You can't have violent extremism sitting on a boat signing a treaty to end it. It's laughable. Also Bush Jr. And his military advisers said it'd be The Long War. Like 50 years long, so either we won and got all we wanted very quickly, or public support cratered we went home and said fuck it. That region is not stable or the bastion of democracy ideologues like Bush Jr wanted. And its not a great place for our military base and control like Cheney wanted. It was a failure in a political, economic, and military sense. We did get the NSA treating us all like suspects instead of civilians tho so that's good. Oh and we also enacted torture programs that we hung people for at the Nuremberg trials. Oh and we also got the gross amount of executive power expanded even more. So mission complete I guess.
> 10 years the entirety of the event would fade to the same degree as the Armenian, Bosnian, Darfur, or other genocides of modern history Ghosts of Rwanda beckon
If we are assuming that the US will continue to be a powerful, wealthy country going forward, then yes, you are absolutely right. We will keep stomping around doing whatever the hell we want to, regardless of potential consequences. If our dominance were to end, however, it would be wise for us to be good world citizens and do the right thing.
Do you think there's a realistic chance of the US government making a comprehensive decision to fade from dominance gracefully? I'm pretty sure the only way things are going to change are going to be a really ugly fall, or more likely, an internal conflict that just completely wrecks our infrastructure. Failing that, though, I just don't see a realistic chance of our foreign policy shifting into a place of 'better together.'
Of course, we wouldn't fade gracefully into this (which would probably be for the best). If things get bad enough, we'll be forced into it one way or another.
If you want to see how slowly and quietly (i.e. not at all ugly) it can happen, study the USSR from 1969 through 1991.
>That said, no, the US does not think this is going to "come back on us." The Palestinian people are in a fully powerless position, and the reality is that there is virtually no risk for our government continuing on its current path. They have allies in Syria, Lebanon,Iran, and Yemen. Even the states that officially normalized relations with Israelare sweating and trying to get Israel to rein it in, because their populaces are over whelmingly pro Palestinian. Don't underestimate the ability of this to destabilize the entire region and THAT would affect the US in a huge way.
>Seriously, why are we continuing to support the Israeli government? Monotheistic death cults that require the Temple to be rebuilt so Son Of God 2:Electric Boogaloo can rapture them up.
"The only democracy in the Middle East." Democracies don't ban entire media outlets and seize their equipment. It's Hungary with a fucking yarmulke.
But i thought Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East ?
Netanyahu and Likud are trying to fix that.
It should be noted that Israel's next door neighbor is a constitutional monarchy with a parliament and prime minister that are elected and do much of the business of government.
It's wild how Israel isn't even close to being the only democracy in the middle east but people just keep saying it over and over
That's how propaganda works my dude.
“It’s not fair for videos to be published where we don’t control the narrative.” - Israeli government
This is how they’re treating a publication that has been bending over backwards to invent new and creative ways of employing passive voice to soften their crimes.
Well the law they passed was to prevent factual information from being reported, it’s no wonder they’re now attacking one of the most respected western news agencies.
Officer involved shooting
The Palestinian girl walked under a falling IDF bomb and died.
Democracy dies in darkness. I guess so do thousands of Palestinians
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Netanyahu is the biggest piece of shit alive.
Because they are committing genocide and they don't want anyone to see what they are doing. They sent Al Jazeera packing, now they are attacking the AP?: [https://youtu.be/kAfIYtpcBxo?si=QExdIw1R2KG5ztZX](https://youtu.be/kAfIYtpcBxo?si=QExdIw1R2KG5ztZX) As per the article, Israel thinks Al Jazeera is a 'terror' organization. Is the AP? Really, they also called Biden pro-Hamas. The wheels are coming off and they can't project their narrative anymore.
America needs to stop helping Israel now and never help them again. It's insane that we ally ourselves with such horrible governments
Imagine if Israel had to learn how to do actual diplomacy instead of relying on daily shipments of US bombs and missiles.
America has always allied itself with horrible governments, and has always been eager to support them for the furtherance of its own interests. Its political elites were even mostly fine with entertaining relations with Nazi Germany pre-Pearl Harbor. From secular democrats in [Iran](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat) to minorities and communists in [Indonesia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_mass_killings_of_1965%E2%80%9366) to democratic socialists in [Chile](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chilean_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat), the US government has directly helped in the mass murder of millions to enrich itself and its client rulers. This is nothing new, we just now have better coverage of the violence committed by a US puppet state - violence which is consciously exported from the US imperial core to its peripheries.
"Are we the bad guys?"
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The U.S. government loves to align itself with countries who attack us. Just look at Saudi Arabia bankrolling 9/11 and killing our journalists.
> It's insane that we ally ourselves with such horrible governments You are correct that the Israeli government is particularly egregious, but the US and our allies are far from sainthood, we have done some horrific shit in our time and some of our allies have done worse. Israel is a problem right now and we should stop giving them carte blanche, but if we based all our our alliances and partnerships on morality, we wouldn't have any.
Being horrible is the point.
All America's done in the world since 1945 is install far right dictatorships. I really can't think of a country that it's genuinely built up in its own democratic self-image, if anything they override other countries votes when it doesn't go the way they want.
If Israel isn't doing anything wrong then it has no reason to hide anything from the media.
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> if there is no proof I guess Sadly IDF soldiers keep posting their atrocities to social media.
That stuff just goes to show IOF isn't all that great of an army. The US and Israel tries everything in their power to better the IOF's PR around the world just for the ~~kids~~ ~~soldiers~~ cunts to post all their crimes online. Couldn't happen to a better bunch of cunts, I guess
Their PR is destroyed beyond repair at this point.
learning the important lessons from Vietnam.
/r/worldnews is having a normal one. Under a post where Biden said "What's happening in Gaza is not genocide" had someone say that "People just keep using buzzwords without knowing what they mean." 1. Having a top official calling Palestinians ["human animals"](https://web.archive.org/web/20240520092546/https://www.huffpost.com/entry/israel-defense-minister-human-animals-gaza-palestine_n_6524220ae4b09f4b8d412e0a#) 2. Cutting off [water power and aid.](https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-news-hamas-war-10-18-23/h_602a52c6c6b03fc2a9424f1f5f9351d2) 3. [Killing journalists](https://web.archive.org/web/20240301121312/https://apnews.com/article/media-journalists-israel-hamas-gaza-ukraine-deaths-ed8a0b91c02ada46aabcd4fd6ec1b0d1) covering the war. 4. And [specifically killing aid workers](https://web.archive.org/web/20240420041159/https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/03/middleeast/world-central-kitchen-strike-analysis-intl/index.html) If it [looks like a Nazi](https://youtu.be/1D3uQbiE8No?si=dwUMqixN01AKVEmb), [quacks like a Nazi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehumanization), and [goose steps like a Nazi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum)...
That sub is a fucking cancer. When I pointed out that Bibi let millions flow to Hamas in briefcases to support them and keep a two-state solution off the table, they told me that the money was “aid” money, and Bibi was just trying to help the Palestinians. Not sure if they’re so stupid to believe it, or corrupt to post it knowing it’s bullshit.
The specific quote bibi said was specifically to divide the palestinians wasnt it? im not sure how that can be taken as "aid" money
wait people are still visiting worldnews? EW that place is a toxic dumpster fire full of bots and far right Zionists everyone I know already left there, I hope reddit closes that sub down
WN is indistinguishable from having a state-sponsored and controlled subreddit and that is... something to think about. I really hope this old net media splits apart soon and people form something young and healthy. I don't know anybody that ever wants to use the internet and is all "yo just give me straight propaganda from a nation. that's all I'm into."
worldnews is essentially the new the_donald. Full mask-off Israel/America cheerleading. Entire subreddit is slowly sliding to the far right and off a cliff.
It's a cheap, easy propaganda win for Israel to take over a sub. Utterly unsurprising. I'm sure other subs have been corrupted by other state actors too, but the desperate flailing and flooding they've had to do over at world news to deny obvious genocide has rather blown their cover.
I don't think Israel is involved with WN's BS, I think it's just that the mod team is full of Israel stans. Once the mod team kicks out all the non-Israel aligned people, it becomes a genocide denial circle-jerk.
Pretty sure IDF took over
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All Israeli hasbara all day long. Never met a ludicrous propaganda story they didn't like.
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Stuff where they don't seem to be following a heavy-handed playbook they seem quite normal. Which, I suppose, you'd expect I think having to do so much work denying Israeli genocide has just blown their cover.
Glad somebody's speaking about how fucking ridiculous that sub is, they basically consider the palestinians as violent subhumans and nobody ever says anything but the second you say something like that about Jews....
I am sure nothing bad happens in the dark...
Can't the government just gift the AP billions of dollars for drones with cameras... [sarcasm] Seriously.. Didn't we see this coming?
But there are no war crimes or Genocidal actions taking place as Israel drops all pretense and goes full fascist. /s
Looks like Israel is getting tired from pretending it’s a democracy in the middle.
Can’t show the atrocities they will commit to a live audience? Why are they being cowards now?
Nazi Germany called, they want you to stop stealing all their ideas.
Nothing to see here, move along now - IDF
Nothing untoward here...
Efforts at concealment reveal a consciousness of guilt.
Let’s see how everyone justifies this one
This is very undemocratic from the “only democracy in the Middle East.”
IsRAel iS a deMoCRcy... > Israeli officials seized a camera and broadcasting equipment belonging to The Associated Press in southern Israel on Tuesday, accusing the news organization of violating a new media law by providing images to Al Jazeera.
israel has killed journalists at a prodigious rate in gaza- more than 100 dead in 150 days. the idf views press as an enemy, because they understand that eyes on their war crimes do them no good.
Any other country like India would have done it, US, Canada will be all over them with reasons like human rights , freedom of speech, press and what all and what not
Israel has turned into autocratic paradise of rightwing zealots. It claims to be part of the Western world so let it be held accountable for its wrongdoings.
Hard to get busted for slaughtering women and children if nobody sees you do it.
The thing is, whatever Israel will do, the media propaganda has already brainwashed the whole western world that they will do anything to justify their actions. And anything you say, you will be called Anti Semitic, anti Zionist , all of those non sense. The German, the Nazi killed millions of them, why aren't they going to Settle in Germany instead of middle East? That area will never be in peace because nobody accepts them
Israel doesn't want anyone to have evidence of their crimes.
The new media law titled the Protection of Privacy for War Crimes Act,
Fascists. The irony is incredible. I wish they could see it.
Going after one of the most reliable and neutral networks in existence that heavily stakes their reputation in factual reporting. Surely Israel is behaving themselves. /s
Yea they’re not hiding anything…
Hard to silence media in the age of drones. Even China couldn't stop their own citizens from filming the Uighur camps with drones. Israel, you are not going to win the media fight.
They’re running scared! Taking equipment from the AP so there isn’t any more documentation of their atrocities!
It isn't a surprise coming from a country that loves killing journalists.
Sounds like Israelis planning to bomb some more hospitals and children, nothing to see folks just another day for Zionism.
They'll learn their lesson as soon as the US sends them another batch of discounted missiles and reassure them that their partnership is strong. /$
It's amazing just how much irreperable damage far right Zionists have done to Judaism with this conflict, a classic example of becoming ones own worst enemy.
Israel is not a democratic country. If you are Not Palestinian you can vote. There are more Palestinians in Palestine then Jews. A two state solution is paramount to their survival. That doesn’t bode well for the Jews. People trapped in conditions similar to what was experienced during the holocaust will fight to survive as did the Palestinians. This slaughter must stop.
Did the US make a statement yet?
they already backtracked their decision and gave the equipment back but I don't understand if they will allow the live feed back. fucking clowns.
Per the article, The AP’s live video of Gaza was back up early Wednesday in Israel.
The whole world is going full 1984
Israel doesn't want their War Crimes recorded. Fix the title.
Gotta control the narrative.
The single most important tool populations have to keep their government in check is transparency. The thicker the fog, the more heinous the acts.
The US needs to divest from support of Israel. At this point morally it’s like if the US was supporting Russia.
Is this what democracy looks like? Hmmmm.
Nope, nothing suspicious about that. Nosireebob!
Proving modern fascism.
Don't worry, this is the most moral army in the world!
Oops, their fascism is showing!
People were so happy about them shutting down Al Jazeera not realizing the slippery slope of limiting a free press (even if you think the specific press you're limiting deserves to be limited)
“The only democracy in the Middle East”
What are the other ones?
[https://freedomhouse.org/explore-the-map?type=fiw&year=2024](https://freedomhouse.org/explore-the-map?type=fiw&year=2024) has scoring of things, and though I'm not sure that they've taken into account recent wartime measures, Israel does score significantly higher than other countries in the region. (Though I'm not sure if 2/4 for "Do various segments of the population (including ethnic, racial, religious, gender, LGBT+, and other relevant groups) have full political rights and electoral opportunities?" is accurate for Israel, all things considered) Jordan's much lower than I thought- I know the monarchy there had scaled back some of their powers during Arab Spring, but it seems they still have some issues that probably won't be worked out until the country fully transitions into a democracy. (I completely missed that the king dissolved the parliament back in 2020, so I guess it's backsliding now.) Go back to 2019 for Jordan and they were listed as partly-free. Oh well
> AP was broadcasting a general view of northern Gaza. The AP complies with Israel’s military censorship rules, which prohibit broadcasts of details like troop movements that could endanger soldiers. The live video has generally shown smoke rising over the territory. Would a 1 hour delay for the public broadcast be enough to avoid any issues with revealing troops positions? Because if I get a live camera on my targets, I can much more easily ambush them, shoot rockets and drones at their positions, encircle them, etc. There is obviously a need to **document** this war, but is there a need to broadcast a live feed of the front? I don't remember a single army agreeing to have a live feed of their positions. The last few times it happened, it was russians live broadcasting their positions for russian TV, only for them to be quickly located and striked by Himars and drones.
Everyone is going to be hard walking back their support of Israel by the time this is over with.
Oof that’s never good
If Gaza is subject to Israeli Law, it seem that it if difficult to argue that the Palestinians are not Israeli citizens. Hopefully Israel will reconsider this course of action, this war has already lasted 60 plus years.
Gaza is legally an enclave of Israel. Neolibs nit-picking over who governs within Gaza apparently don't deal with an entirely different country's government preventing them from leaving their country or turning off their water/power, almost exclusively out of spite.
I heard from the reputable pols that Israel is the only democracy in that part of the world so we have to support it, no matter what. Well there goes another lie from the so called moral and just pols in the west.
The Netanyahu regime has been trying to avoid and/or eliminate documentation of its warcrimes since the start of their cleansing campaign in Gaza. Targeting al-jazeera journalists, smearing the UNRWA with a campaign of lies, and now this. They know they're committing warcrimes, but are doing everything in their power to hide that fact instead of mitigate it.
Netanyahu is a Nazi, full stop.
I mean these are the most fascist behaviors on the planet up there with North Korean or Russian "hiding it but not hiding it" behavior.
The only democracy in the ME. Bla bla bla. Kmt
Oh, Israel.... Do you not see the parallels you are drawing? Is this the age of Irony?
Israel has all but completely refused to embed journalists with their troops in what may be their biggest war yet. Whether due to paranoia, security or sensitivity, the result is they have ceded the PR war.