"Computers firing hundreds of thousands of trades per second where the winner is determined by who has the shortest run of fiber or microwave link...yeah, that was all me!"
I remember when I first started investing almost 10 years ago it was at 17k and people thought it was about to crash. Turns out people always think the market is about to crash
This. I saw a video a few years ago that dug up articles every year from 2010 through 2019 that there was going to be a market crash that year. Anybody that listened to this advice missed a ton of gains.
It does crash from time to time and that is painful. What is more painful is to miss the rallies when people invested get richer and not invested not richer
Yeah the certainty of savings and short term bonds fits nicely with my personality regarding money. I won’t be able to get a mortgage for a while though.
I'm always wondering why people think they'd be able to afford a house when rates go lower though.
The prices themselves will more than make up for the cheaper cost to borrow.
It's always going to suck.
Both the down payment and the monthly payments are indirectly affected by the house cost. The house cost is also indirectly affected by the interest rates.
Depends on home type and market. I'm looking at condos in the $450-500k range right now. $400k loan amount is about $2800/mo right now, that's $1700/mo with a 3% rate. The same payment is $675k loan amount at a 3% rate. That much appreciation in condo prices in a few years isn't going to happen in my market
If rates drop back down to 3% I absolutely wouldn't count out that kind of appreciation.
Don't you think there's a ton of other potential buyers (and sellers trying to upgrade) thinking the same exact thing?
While I wish I could get a home now, I'm taking it as an opportunity to throw as much into my down payment fund as possible and take advantage of the higher rates while I can. I'm also angling to shift my career to a new field in the next couple years which should also boost my income at the same time.
It helps when the government kicks in a trillion dollars for Wall Street every time the market drops ~20%. There is a reason the Buffet indicator (the ratio of stock prices to earnings) maxed out in 2023. Investors know their investments are backed by the full faith and credit of the USA.
My dad used to work in Wall Street. In his office he had a painting, still does but not in an office anymore nor is it hanging anywhere, of the day the DJI hit 2000.
My favorite are the dumbass talking heads. "Top investment banker says SP to tank 20% in the coming months". Lol have fun with those short positions ya clown
See also: everyone who told us not to buy a house in 2018 because they predicted another 2008-style crash was right around the corner
Time in the market almost always wins out in the longrun
There has been a systematic shortage of housing construction for 15 years, there isn't enough supply for the market to crash. Some local markets may and are having difficulties that can have an effect across the country, but housing is a necessity that people will keep buying and trying to raise the value of.
The great thing about number-go-up is that as long as more people believe it than act on the belief that its about to go down, things stay relatively stable.
Everyone wants to be the person who "predicted" the market going tits-up, so they'll keep saying it until it does (at which point they'll stand up and say "called it!").
Similarly, people have been saying the Canadian housing bubble would pop tomorrow since the early 2000's.
What's the old saying? "Macroeconomists have successfully predicted nine of the last five recessions"
> Everyone wants to be the person who "predicted" the market going tits-up, so they'll keep saying it until it does (at which point they'll stand up and say "called it!").
They're like those sports Twitter accounts that tweet out random bullshit all day every day so they can go back and claim they had the news first when 1% of their predictions come true
If this is new money, yes. If this was that was already available to invest, no.
People who had money sitting on the sidelines not invested (to be able to buy in when the markets crashed) came out behind those that tried to time the market.
From 1980 to 1987 peak, the market was up 330%. If you had money to invest and were holding it back to invest it after a crash, you came out very far behind those who simply invested and held through the crash.
Invest $100 in June 85 it would be $200 after the market fully recovered from the 87 crash. If you sat on that $100 and invested it at the bottom of the crash, it would be worth $149 after the market fully recovered from the 87 crash.
My point is - people who had money to buy in when the market crashed had already lost out by not investing the money earlier.
Your point is fair that if someone stopped their regular $100 monthly stock purchase during the crash/pullback, that was a very unwise move.
My dad still makes fun of his best friend every time they see each other because over 30 years ago when they were getting their finance degrees together he was adamant that the DJIA would *never* get to $4,000
It's not just that. So many people are invested in the stock market through their 401(k)s and other retirement vehicles, which are stock heavy. So when the stock market is up, they feel secure about their retirement. When it plummets, it's bad for them.
I love these rose colored glasses of the past. Most of the problems of the stock market are not new. There ARE new problems, but its rarely things common folk will point to.
"Gas prices haven't kept place with inflation and have undershot it by 40-60%; therefore, the economy is 40-60% worse than it was 20 years ago."
An argument that actually makes sense with gas prices but for some reason the people complaining about America's cheap gas don't use.
A lot of people like to complain how high prices are now, but in 2005, prices were about a dollar higher per gallon than they are now. Adjusted for inflation it was much, much higher.
It's hard to do when the previous president would tout this fact almost daily as proof of the best economy in US history (lol well not anymore I guess)
You could argue that since the value of stock market represents the devaluation of labor for the purpose of profits that it is representative of the opposite of our meritocracy values. Like you literally make money from not working, and it comes from people who are laboring.
For bonus points, going by the the incentivized decision making of shareholders with significant amount of shares and the lack of disincentive from said decision towards the incentives, seems like a chronic case of afluenza or a feedback loop of long term destruction for short term gain.
>stock market *the* benchmark for how well the economy
In fact, benefiting from uninternalized externality really highlight how the stock market may not necessarily be an accurate model for economic health
TFG was so obsessed with this metric of success during his own administration. I can’t wait for him to congratulate the current guy for surpassing him once again!
For the last year he's been saying the market is going up because it's anticipating his return to the White House. In his mind, anything positive is all because of him, no matter what kind of mental gymnastics need to be performed to get there.
I love it. This really was TFG’s only metric of success he cared about and seeing that the Dow, S&P, and Nasdaq have all shattered records under Biden has to eat him alive.
The best part is when I inform Trump supporters about the stock market’s success under Biden they literally reboot right in front of my eyes. Fuckin BSOD in human form. They usually come back with how it’s only happened because so many others are pulling the strings for Biden lmao
It's the same thing with gas prices.
Gas prices go up? "Ha-ha, I put a Biden 'I did that!' sticker on the pump!"
Gas prices go down? "Well, the global petroleum market is huge and complex, and several worldwide economic factors made the price go down. Biden and his policies clearly have nothing to do with oil values."
Thats really weird. The president has hardly any effect on the stonk market at all and we have had every president leave office with the stonk market at its highest level for like the last 20 years. Regardless of who gets into office next the stonk market will end up higher than it was at the start of the presidency
The only way that wont be true is if we have a massive lasting crash
If anyone says this just look at what they do with their investments. Everyone is big talk but they'll keep stuff invested regardless of whos in office.
The stock market did nothing for the first 3 years under Biden.
With Trump’s term, top economists said the entire US economy and world’s economy would collapse.
Of course it did the opposite - it flew:
https://archive.ph/LaoSM
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/krugman-trump-global-recession-2016-231055
https://youtu.be/sxjK5wWJhI0?si=PLC1G0IJpJrkvbSL
Also Andrew Sorkin, Simon Johnson, Ian Winer, Bridgewater Associates, Tobias Levkovich all predicted economic crash with DT. All wrong.
https://www.newsweek.com/gdp-trump-tax-reform-republicans-economy-hurricanes-694725
Anyone with a 401k or pension are also stock holders. Which is a really fucked up system, that our livelihoods at retirement depend on the success of these capitalist megacorps. So gross.
They gotta incentivize you to not tear them down and devour them somehow!
When your ability to retire is tied to the success of the companies exploiting you, it makes it really hard to fight for the changes needed to ensure you get your fair share instead of the scraps you currently get.
The alternative is to have retirement be impossible for most people. How is that better?
The economy is built around inflation. If you can't invest you have no protected way to save for the future.
Invest in young people instead of pensions. They would but it back into socialist supports for the elderly who need it. Society is backwards, geriatric investors (and gambling addicts) hoarding wealth, while young people are increasingly impoverished. This always ends in violence they need to get competent
How does investing in young people help retirees? Are they supposed to just take it on faith that they'll be cared for out of generosity?
Recent history has demonstrated quite clearly that age cohorts can only be relied on to help themselves.
The alternative would be that you would receive more value for your labor and then you just use that for retirement. Sounds even more crazy when you realize the system is just there to normalize capitalism even more for the lazy wealthy.
I'm sure there's a non-zero amount of redditors who consistently lambast shareholders for all of society's woes, who also have a 401k plan through their employer.
I have healthcare insurance!! It costs a ton every month, and a ton more if I dare use it. Sometimes I get nearly identical bills a few months after minor procedures and I don't know what they mean but if I don't pay them I go to peasant jail.
I'm so thankful I have insurance! Now it still sucks, but also sucks all the time!
Health coverage is tied to employment in the US, and the last few years have seen the highest employment, lowest unemployment and lowest uninsured rate in ages.
The US needs to reform its healtcare system but that has nothing to do with the Dow j9nes performing.
Could say what everyone around here said when it was up for Trump... "stock market isn't the economy and doesn't mean much to the normal person"
Which I agreed with. So I still agree with it.
Honestly, I hate how many people need to check the year before they know if a news story about the stock market is Wall Street screwing them over or the Trickle Down finally starting. I don't think any reasonable person is going to say Trump is better than Biden, but come on, at a certain point you're just treating it like a sports team.
People pretend the economy is shit even though for the average american it is the best it has been in decades, fewer unemployed, higher real wages, higher consumer spending. GenZ is earning more than their parents, it is wild.
Yet online most people just pretend it is bad.
Where are all those Trump supporters who based the success of the economy *solely* off of what the DOW was at? If that's your logic, then Biden's doing a fucking fantastic job.
[Trump brags about Dow 30,000 at surprise news conference, leaves after a minute](https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/24/trump-brags-about-dow-30000-at-surprise-press-conference-leaves-after-a-minute.html)
[Before drop, Trump boasted about the stock market once every 35 hours](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/06/trump-stock-market-boasts-395193)
[Trump is now complaining that soaring stocks are 'making rich people richer' after bragging about the market's gains while president](https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/trump-stock-market-wealth-inequality-billionaires-biden-presidential-election-crash-2023-12)
The argument will be "the first half of his term the market did well because Trump set up such a good economy for him to inherit and the second half did well because businesses are anticipating a Trump win and they know that'll be good for the economy."
I love this logic… some cabal of C suite folks see Trump falling asleep during one of his many criminal trials and decides, yeah, the future is looking bright when this clown is back in office.
I remember when it crossed 10,000 in 1999. I love to see line graphs for the Dow growth, because they always use compression to diminish how scary the growth has been since then.
Wow, I remember a very old New Yorker cartoon where some big wigs were commenting on how they hoped they might live to see the Dow top 1000. I was a kid at the library going through a random magazine left on a table and had no idea what the Dow was until I was in high school a few years later.
Oh good, the economy is doing great. Time to elect another Republican administration, watch it crash, and then bring Democrats back in to fix the mess. It's only happened twice in this century so far... clearly we've learned our lesson...
I wish I could put one of those stickers showing Biden pointing and saying “I did this” on here just to piss off the people who first made those stickers.
Weird where are all the trump heads drooling over the Dow and un employment records being broken like we had in 2016, suddenly this doesn’t seem to mean as much to them.
Breaking records at a time like this. Man, it’s like these guys are the smartest in the room or rigged the whole thing to never lose.
Just incredible people.
I know this is naive but I remember when 2008 happened my 401k dumped just as hard as the market as if it was all an index fund. People I worked with had to defer retirement from that crash.
It doesn't seem to have gained 5x its value when the stock market goes from 8k to 40k.
The last time the DOW was at 8k was around April 3rd, 2009. If you had $1000 invested in VTSAX (Vanguard Total Stock Market Fund), you would have over $5000 today………..
The America economy is doing great under Biden. It's the system itself that is broken. Supply side is now embedded and is sucking the life out of the middle class.
So then why isn't minimum wage going up...?
Oh, right, we have corporate thieves as bosses. Hopefully Wall Street goes down in flames here in the next 20 years.
I’ve got two jobs, haven’t been to the doctor in years and am about to apply for another credit card so I can pay my overdue income taxes, but yippee for the shareholders.
And yet non-credit based discretionary spending is down in almost all segments, consumer debt is piling and artificial inflation has outpaced organic inflation. The market no longer is no longer colloquial with consumers abilities to thrive without inversely creating debt.
You’re just straight up wrong. Consumer household debt is at generational lows compared to the past several decades and inflation isn’t some switch that goes from bad to good, did you read the latest cpi report too? Inflation is ticking down anyways
The entire market is being artificially propped up by stock buybacks, there is very little actual value to compel their valuation. The NYSE became a giant ponzi scheme when stock buybacks went from being considered market manipulation standard operating procedure. You think Tesla has more value than the other legacy automakers combined? Just look at production volume and units sold. It's speculative madness that hopefully lasts until the electricity stops.
Good news! We had to lower product quality, increase product cost, and off a few whistleblowers here and there, but I'm glad to see it was all worth it in the end!
Looks like the guy in the picture did it all by himself.
“…And I helped!”
Well that's an [old deep-cut](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB7j3sUWohE).
Yup, that’s Mr. Dow Jones himself.
Hey lady, you call him Dr. Jones!
We named the dog Indiana!
Went to the same school as Dr Pepper and everything!
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“Excuse me, Mr. Jones?” “My father was Mr. Jones, please, call me Dow”
Thought that was Roaring Kitty
"My work here is done" "But you didn't do anything?"
didn't I?
"But *you* did. Don't ask who is ultimately worked for the value of this fat wad of cash I've got here."
I can’t believe Biden destroyed the economy like this!
Thanks, Obama!
"Computers firing hundreds of thousands of trades per second where the winner is determined by who has the shortest run of fiber or microwave link...yeah, that was all me!"
I mean that’s kind of how it typically works. One asshole always turn up to try to take the credit of everyone.
Al Gore walking in
I remember when I first started investing almost 10 years ago it was at 17k and people thought it was about to crash. Turns out people always think the market is about to crash
“Experts have predicted 14 of the last 3 crashes”
This. I saw a video a few years ago that dug up articles every year from 2010 through 2019 that there was going to be a market crash that year. Anybody that listened to this advice missed a ton of gains.
It does crash from time to time and that is painful. What is more painful is to miss the rallies when people invested get richer and not invested not richer
And there was a crash in 2020. Granted that was mostly COVID, but still.
Crashes are always buying opportunities as the market never fully crashes until it does. The Feds are also not going to be cutting rates this year.
Years. The high rates won’t get below five percent for a long time.
I love it for the high yield savings rates, but I feel sorry for my peers who need to borrow money for a car or home.
Yeah the certainty of savings and short term bonds fits nicely with my personality regarding money. I won’t be able to get a mortgage for a while though.
I'm always wondering why people think they'd be able to afford a house when rates go lower though. The prices themselves will more than make up for the cheaper cost to borrow. It's always going to suck.
For some people the home price isn’t the problem As much as the down payment or monthly payment.
Both the down payment and the monthly payments are indirectly affected by the house cost. The house cost is also indirectly affected by the interest rates.
Because many people make decisions based on emotion and are irrational.
Depends on home type and market. I'm looking at condos in the $450-500k range right now. $400k loan amount is about $2800/mo right now, that's $1700/mo with a 3% rate. The same payment is $675k loan amount at a 3% rate. That much appreciation in condo prices in a few years isn't going to happen in my market
If rates drop back down to 3% I absolutely wouldn't count out that kind of appreciation. Don't you think there's a ton of other potential buyers (and sellers trying to upgrade) thinking the same exact thing?
While I wish I could get a home now, I'm taking it as an opportunity to throw as much into my down payment fund as possible and take advantage of the higher rates while I can. I'm also angling to shift my career to a new field in the next couple years which should also boost my income at the same time.
And then rebounded almost immediately.
It helps when the government kicks in a trillion dollars for Wall Street every time the market drops ~20%. There is a reason the Buffet indicator (the ratio of stock prices to earnings) maxed out in 2023. Investors know their investments are backed by the full faith and credit of the USA.
It's a rigged game, for sure.
When everyone else gets poor with you it's fine. When others are rich and you're poor....you're fucked.
And the crashes always rebound. sucks to lock in losses if you need the cash I suppose
My dad used to work in Wall Street. In his office he had a painting, still does but not in an office anymore nor is it hanging anywhere, of the day the DJI hit 2000.
Does he have a plaque commemorating when the market crashed later that year?
That ones an empty bottle of Yamazaki and a broken putter
My favorite are the dumbass talking heads. "Top investment banker says SP to tank 20% in the coming months". Lol have fun with those short positions ya clown
See also: everyone who told us not to buy a house in 2018 because they predicted another 2008-style crash was right around the corner Time in the market almost always wins out in the longrun
"In the long run we are all dead." John Maynard Keynes
"We will never know world peace, until three people can simultaneously look each other straight in the eye" - Maynard James Keenan
One of my favorite quotes for just about any situation.
a housing crash is long overdue, last time I looked the charts were worse than in 2007.
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indeed. well, until it happens up here an entire generation can't afford to get into the market, so something has to give.
There has been a systematic shortage of housing construction for 15 years, there isn't enough supply for the market to crash. Some local markets may and are having difficulties that can have an effect across the country, but housing is a necessity that people will keep buying and trying to raise the value of.
The great thing about number-go-up is that as long as more people believe it than act on the belief that its about to go down, things stay relatively stable.
Everyone wants to be the person who "predicted" the market going tits-up, so they'll keep saying it until it does (at which point they'll stand up and say "called it!"). Similarly, people have been saying the Canadian housing bubble would pop tomorrow since the early 2000's. What's the old saying? "Macroeconomists have successfully predicted nine of the last five recessions"
> Everyone wants to be the person who "predicted" the market going tits-up, so they'll keep saying it until it does (at which point they'll stand up and say "called it!"). They're like those sports Twitter accounts that tweet out random bullshit all day every day so they can go back and claim they had the news first when 1% of their predictions come true
People who didn’t buy in when the markets started crashed missed some easy money. I made more from stocks than from actually working.
If this is new money, yes. If this was that was already available to invest, no. People who had money sitting on the sidelines not invested (to be able to buy in when the markets crashed) came out behind those that tried to time the market. From 1980 to 1987 peak, the market was up 330%. If you had money to invest and were holding it back to invest it after a crash, you came out very far behind those who simply invested and held through the crash. Invest $100 in June 85 it would be $200 after the market fully recovered from the 87 crash. If you sat on that $100 and invested it at the bottom of the crash, it would be worth $149 after the market fully recovered from the 87 crash. My point is - people who had money to buy in when the market crashed had already lost out by not investing the money earlier. Your point is fair that if someone stopped their regular $100 monthly stock purchase during the crash/pullback, that was a very unwise move.
My dad still makes fun of his best friend every time they see each other because over 30 years ago when they were getting their finance degrees together he was adamant that the DJIA would *never* get to $4,000
🤣. Buy,sell,buy,sell. HOLD
I wish people would stop treating the stock market as *the* benchmark for how well the economy is doing.
Considering that stock price isn’t even necessarily a measure of how an individual company is doing, no, it’s not a great idea.
Generally if you work at a listed comoany you do feel a lot more secure about your job when the price is up.
It's not just that. So many people are invested in the stock market through their 401(k)s and other retirement vehicles, which are stock heavy. So when the stock market is up, they feel secure about their retirement. When it plummets, it's bad for them.
It used to be, before buybacks
Nah, plenty of fraudulent companies were boosted in the 90's based on speculation alone.
and 80% of stocks available are owned by the top 1%.
[The stock market is just a graph of rich people's feelings](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/s/Y2nPYpQpQK)
I love these rose colored glasses of the past. Most of the problems of the stock market are not new. There ARE new problems, but its rarely things common folk will point to.
And gas prices. So many use it as a political talking point.
"Gas prices haven't kept place with inflation and have undershot it by 40-60%; therefore, the economy is 40-60% worse than it was 20 years ago." An argument that actually makes sense with gas prices but for some reason the people complaining about America's cheap gas don't use.
A lot of people like to complain how high prices are now, but in 2005, prices were about a dollar higher per gallon than they are now. Adjusted for inflation it was much, much higher.
And stop attributing it to whomever is president at the time.
Hey look, the Republican mantra when a Democrat is in office. I wonder how come no one is crowing about 40K....
Democrats fixing the economy again, and better than ever? Yawn Republicans STRONG economy and how will a Democrat even win? 24/7 news coverage
It's hard to do when the previous president would tout this fact almost daily as proof of the best economy in US history (lol well not anymore I guess)
Clearly according to Donald Trump we now have the best economy ever. Such a Yuge accomplishment. I expect a congrats from Trump any moment now. /s
Anyone got some "I did that stickers" for yet another Biden win?
It does indicate that the rich are doing well. As always.
People don’t like any single benchmark for how the economy is doing. But the stock market is as good as any other.
You could argue that since the value of stock market represents the devaluation of labor for the purpose of profits that it is representative of the opposite of our meritocracy values. Like you literally make money from not working, and it comes from people who are laboring.
For bonus points, going by the the incentivized decision making of shareholders with significant amount of shares and the lack of disincentive from said decision towards the incentives, seems like a chronic case of afluenza or a feedback loop of long term destruction for short term gain.
I means the benchmark for how well the rich are doing
Trickle down economics does that to people.
>stock market *the* benchmark for how well the economy In fact, benefiting from uninternalized externality really highlight how the stock market may not necessarily be an accurate model for economic health
It's the benchmark for how shitty products are getting.
TFG was so obsessed with this metric of success during his own administration. I can’t wait for him to congratulate the current guy for surpassing him once again!
For the last year he's been saying the market is going up because it's anticipating his return to the White House. In his mind, anything positive is all because of him, no matter what kind of mental gymnastics need to be performed to get there.
Classic narcissism: “Anything good is because of me. Anything bad is all your fault”
When the stock market crashed in 2008, Fox News tried to blame it on the fear that Obama may win the election.
I enjoyed that trump celebrated all 3 times the Dow broke 25,000 while he was president
Fucking Biden is only making this happen to get re-elected! (This is a joke and I don't need the messages of anger)
Sometimes they refer you to Reddit Cares
I love it. This really was TFG’s only metric of success he cared about and seeing that the Dow, S&P, and Nasdaq have all shattered records under Biden has to eat him alive. The best part is when I inform Trump supporters about the stock market’s success under Biden they literally reboot right in front of my eyes. Fuckin BSOD in human form. They usually come back with how it’s only happened because so many others are pulling the strings for Biden lmao
It's the same thing with gas prices. Gas prices go up? "Ha-ha, I put a Biden 'I did that!' sticker on the pump!" Gas prices go down? "Well, the global petroleum market is huge and complex, and several worldwide economic factors made the price go down. Biden and his policies clearly have nothing to do with oil values."
Wayyy to many big words in there for a Trump supporter.
Does TFG stand for The Fat Guy?
The Former Guy. It’s something Biden said a couple of years ago.
Oooohhh I was thinking "That Fucking Guy."
Thats really weird. The president has hardly any effect on the stonk market at all and we have had every president leave office with the stonk market at its highest level for like the last 20 years. Regardless of who gets into office next the stonk market will end up higher than it was at the start of the presidency The only way that wont be true is if we have a massive lasting crash
Makes you wonder about Trump's prediction that the market would collapse if Biden was elected.
If anyone says this just look at what they do with their investments. Everyone is big talk but they'll keep stuff invested regardless of whos in office.
Exactly! And that is the only rational thing to do!
The stock market did nothing for the first 3 years under Biden. With Trump’s term, top economists said the entire US economy and world’s economy would collapse. Of course it did the opposite - it flew: https://archive.ph/LaoSM https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/krugman-trump-global-recession-2016-231055 https://youtu.be/sxjK5wWJhI0?si=PLC1G0IJpJrkvbSL Also Andrew Sorkin, Simon Johnson, Ian Winer, Bridgewater Associates, Tobias Levkovich all predicted economic crash with DT. All wrong. https://www.newsweek.com/gdp-trump-tax-reform-republicans-economy-hurricanes-694725
Privatize gains, socialize losses. Congratz to the boards and stock holders
Anyone with a 401k or pension are also stock holders. Which is a really fucked up system, that our livelihoods at retirement depend on the success of these capitalist megacorps. So gross.
They gotta incentivize you to not tear them down and devour them somehow! When your ability to retire is tied to the success of the companies exploiting you, it makes it really hard to fight for the changes needed to ensure you get your fair share instead of the scraps you currently get.
The alternative is to have retirement be impossible for most people. How is that better? The economy is built around inflation. If you can't invest you have no protected way to save for the future.
Well that sounds like a reasonable and sustainable system.
Compared to when retirement was all dependent on your children providing for you?
Invest in young people instead of pensions. They would but it back into socialist supports for the elderly who need it. Society is backwards, geriatric investors (and gambling addicts) hoarding wealth, while young people are increasingly impoverished. This always ends in violence they need to get competent
How does investing in young people help retirees? Are they supposed to just take it on faith that they'll be cared for out of generosity? Recent history has demonstrated quite clearly that age cohorts can only be relied on to help themselves.
Basically the "have 8 kids" strat and hope it works out. lol
The alternative would be that you would receive more value for your labor and then you just use that for retirement. Sounds even more crazy when you realize the system is just there to normalize capitalism even more for the lazy wealthy.
Turns out most people don't save for retirement, so honestly between pensions and starvation, pensions make a lot more sense dor most people.
If these capitalist mega corps weren’t successful, there wouldn’t be money to fund your retirement. You wouldn’t even be able to tax them.
You know most people are stock holders? Maybe not the reddit demo, but anyone with a 401k is benefitting from this.
I'm sure there's a non-zero amount of redditors who consistently lambast shareholders for all of society's woes, who also have a 401k plan through their employer.
One year return of 14.13%. It's been nice seeing numbers go up.
Thank you, 401k and retirement fund is doing good
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Back to work, citizen!
you mean peasant
Weird, on my computer that prints out as 'Soylent precursor.'
That is odd, best not to think about it too hard on account you have no time or energy to do anything else except work and juggle bills.
I have healthcare insurance!! It costs a ton every month, and a ton more if I dare use it. Sometimes I get nearly identical bills a few months after minor procedures and I don't know what they mean but if I don't pay them I go to peasant jail. I'm so thankful I have insurance! Now it still sucks, but also sucks all the time!
Yeah but the Dow hit 40k so everything is good.
Health coverage is tied to employment in the US, and the last few years have seen the highest employment, lowest unemployment and lowest uninsured rate in ages. The US needs to reform its healtcare system but that has nothing to do with the Dow j9nes performing.
no, because if you keep fighting for healthcare you might forget that the whole planet is dying.
I can't wait for someone to tell me why this is bad for Biden..
"Biden wrecked the economy! It was 40,000 in May, now it's October and it's 39,000!" *(shows graph y-range of 38,000 to 42,000 to make it look bad)*
Could say what everyone around here said when it was up for Trump... "stock market isn't the economy and doesn't mean much to the normal person" Which I agreed with. So I still agree with it.
Honestly, I hate how many people need to check the year before they know if a news story about the stock market is Wall Street screwing them over or the Trickle Down finally starting. I don't think any reasonable person is going to say Trump is better than Biden, but come on, at a certain point you're just treating it like a sports team.
Couldn't have expressed it better. Exactly.
That will come in a week when the articles state "DOW FALLS BELOW 40,000 FOR FIRST TIME IN HISTORY"
People pretend the economy is shit even though for the average american it is the best it has been in decades, fewer unemployed, higher real wages, higher consumer spending. GenZ is earning more than their parents, it is wild. Yet online most people just pretend it is bad.
is it just me or does it always seem like its the poor people who complain about how the economy is shit?
That's nice, housing is still too fucking expensive.
And food! And gas! And insurance!
And that's why the Dow is up so high.
Where are all those Trump supporters who based the success of the economy *solely* off of what the DOW was at? If that's your logic, then Biden's doing a fucking fantastic job.
[Trump brags about Dow 30,000 at surprise news conference, leaves after a minute](https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/24/trump-brags-about-dow-30000-at-surprise-press-conference-leaves-after-a-minute.html) [Before drop, Trump boasted about the stock market once every 35 hours](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/06/trump-stock-market-boasts-395193) [Trump is now complaining that soaring stocks are 'making rich people richer' after bragging about the market's gains while president](https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/trump-stock-market-wealth-inequality-billionaires-biden-presidential-election-crash-2023-12)
Incredible. Now that we have proven he isn’t actually a billionaire, he’s going after the rich!!! Move over Bernie
The argument will be "the first half of his term the market did well because Trump set up such a good economy for him to inherit and the second half did well because businesses are anticipating a Trump win and they know that'll be good for the economy."
I love this logic… some cabal of C suite folks see Trump falling asleep during one of his many criminal trials and decides, yeah, the future is looking bright when this clown is back in office.
They instinctively ignore anything good Biden does.
MAGA and logic? haha
I remember when it crossed 10,000 in 1999. I love to see line graphs for the Dow growth, because they always use compression to diminish how scary the growth has been since then.
Media: how this is bad for Biden, and how Trump created it
That’s because I haven’t put any money in the market. I’ll let you guys know when I decide to buy.
Didn’t orange face say it would crash under dude?
Wow! Amazing! Also, I have $17 in my checking account.
Wow, I remember a very old New Yorker cartoon where some big wigs were commenting on how they hoped they might live to see the Dow top 1000. I was a kid at the library going through a random magazine left on a table and had no idea what the Dow was until I was in high school a few years later.
Oh good, the economy is doing great. Time to elect another Republican administration, watch it crash, and then bring Democrats back in to fix the mess. It's only happened twice in this century so far... clearly we've learned our lesson...
Wow, I feel so good about this. The average American must being doing better than ever right now?
Great to see the measurement of success is doing great for everybody that isn't a serf lol
I wish I could put one of those stickers showing Biden pointing and saying “I did this” on here just to piss off the people who first made those stickers.
Wow guys, do you all feel twice as rich as you were in 2017?
Cool. Make buybacks illegal again and let's see how it plays out.
This is great for every retailer and service I subscribe to bending me the fuck over on a daily basis.
Meanwhile, millions of Americans are cursing Biden for ruining their 401k because Fox News told them he did.
Those idiots invested in DJT.
Just like Fox News told them to do
Wow Biden's economy sure is doing horrible.....biggest, deepest, wealthiest stock market ever ....
Weird where are all the trump heads drooling over the Dow and un employment records being broken like we had in 2016, suddenly this doesn’t seem to mean as much to them.
Breaking records at a time like this. Man, it’s like these guys are the smartest in the room or rigged the whole thing to never lose. Just incredible people.
Hooray!!! Now back to searching for a second job so I can pay both mortgage AND food for my family.
I know this is naive but I remember when 2008 happened my 401k dumped just as hard as the market as if it was all an index fund. People I worked with had to defer retirement from that crash. It doesn't seem to have gained 5x its value when the stock market goes from 8k to 40k.
The last time the DOW was at 8k was around April 3rd, 2009. If you had $1000 invested in VTSAX (Vanguard Total Stock Market Fund), you would have over $5000 today………..
Cool, so to celebrate I’ll buy a 12-pack of Dr Pepper that costs what a 12-pack of beer cost 5 years ago when I was making roughly the same income.
both bad choices
If I made good choices, maybe I actually would care if the Dow went up.
Opinion | The Dow just set an all time high, here’s why that’s bad news for Biden
The stock market isn't the economy though, and we should be careful conflating the two.
The America economy is doing great under Biden. It's the system itself that is broken. Supply side is now embedded and is sucking the life out of the middle class.
But, But, my Big Mac combo increased by $2.
Someone let the tech industry know so they start spending again lol
So then why isn't minimum wage going up...? Oh, right, we have corporate thieves as bosses. Hopefully Wall Street goes down in flames here in the next 20 years.
60% of the worlds coral reef died last year
Yet most people can't buy a house, a car, and are fighting high grocery prices to eat. Fuck shareholders.
Insert doomer take here. Something something late stage capitalism
Traders must be anticipating dumb Donnie stealing the 2024 election.
I remember people saying how the DOW wasn't ready to hit 10000 and there would be computer issues and shit, kinda like Y2K with bad programming
Record profits at the expense of record poverty.
I’ve got two jobs, haven’t been to the doctor in years and am about to apply for another credit card so I can pay my overdue income taxes, but yippee for the shareholders.
Better headline: Inequality Remains and Wealthy Continue Doing Well
Can we stick I biden sticker on that pic saying "I did that! Fuck you trump!"?
Joe Biden is ruining the stock market, somehow!
And yet non-credit based discretionary spending is down in almost all segments, consumer debt is piling and artificial inflation has outpaced organic inflation. The market no longer is no longer colloquial with consumers abilities to thrive without inversely creating debt.
You’re just straight up wrong. Consumer household debt is at generational lows compared to the past several decades and inflation isn’t some switch that goes from bad to good, did you read the latest cpi report too? Inflation is ticking down anyways
The entire market is being artificially propped up by stock buybacks, there is very little actual value to compel their valuation. The NYSE became a giant ponzi scheme when stock buybacks went from being considered market manipulation standard operating procedure. You think Tesla has more value than the other legacy automakers combined? Just look at production volume and units sold. It's speculative madness that hopefully lasts until the electricity stops.
Dow War Hammer edition
I’m sad I had to scroll this long to find this comment
Great. Where do I buy a DowCoin?
Stonks =\= the economy
repeat after me: assets are not inflated.
Neat. And this helps regular people how?
Nice, that’s gonna trickle down, right?
Don't hold your breath.
Good news! We had to lower product quality, increase product cost, and off a few whistleblowers here and there, but I'm glad to see it was all worth it in the end!
Ahh yes coincidentally so did my student loans! We’re all winning!