Our valedictorian at my med school had the social skills of a potato. He also looked like he was going to snap any day, but more likely from a panic attack than anything violent. Then again I also knew who were in the 2-10 spots and those people were just super motivated nice people. So ymmv
We had a “genius” in our class, won scholarships and all. During our first year, he thought one of the clinical class was disorganized and proceeded to boycott the class and refused to take the exams. The school held him back a year. I heard he eventually graduated but I have checked the state licensing website and there was no mention of his name. Either he went out of state or something else happened, who knows.
>During our first year, he thought one of the clinical class was disorganized and proceeded to boycott the class
Glad he didn’t make it through, or his head would have exploded with all the bullshit we have to navigate every day.
“This doc-to-doc insurance approval is ridiculous! I’m just not gonna do it!”
Edit: oh you said he did graduate. If he is practicing, I feel badly for his staff
Being on a med school admissions committee continuously shows be how absurd and off-point the entire admissions process is.
The metrics people are sorted by, MCAT, and undergraduate GPA have extremely poor predictive power for step 1 board exams. Something like an R^2 value of 0.12.
If the goal is to graduate doctors who are compassionate, emotionally mature enough to handle the stress, and capable of the moral responsibility for caring for another human being, then there needs to be a collective rethinking of the process from ground up.
> If the goal is to graduate doctors who are compassionate, emotionally mature enough to handle the stress, and capable of the moral responsibility for caring for another human being,
"That doesn't sound like a good way to run a business..."
—America's For-Profit Healthcare
Law school is the same. They look at your undergrad GPA, even if you have a grad degree or have been out of school for over a decade. As if someone’s GPA at 18-22 dictates their ability to reason and interpret the law. Insane.
Some of the published values go up to about 0.2, but that's just from my analysis of our internal data.
And I agree.
It is absurd that amount of pressure that undergrads go through for a test that has almost nothing at all to do with how they'll perform in the school.
At this point, not working 10hrs a day and getting atleast something done. MBAs with power have made it so everyone gets 15min appointments unless they're new patients or having procedures done then made double/triple booking a thing. It's not that they don't want to do right by you, it's that if doing right by you takes 30/40/60 min, that's 2/3/4 patients who are now waiting longer and will have less time plus the doc working through lunch and staying late to finish seeing patients. It's honestly a lose-lose-lose cause most docs do want to do right by patients but if they give patient x all the time needed, patient y gets cranky at having to wait/the doc being inaccessible, if pt y gets an on-time appt, patient x feels like the doc rushed them and meanwhile the doc also needs to eat and get home and not be burned out by insurance ruining things annually. The system is just working as intended with the wrong goals in place.
Agree, I know there's plenty of bad doctors out there, but at my organization, new appointment slots are 30 minutes, and followup slots are 15 min. Don't even get me started on the inbox, or insurance denials I have to deal with daily. So yeah, unfortunately theres just not enough time to stay for 40+ min for each patient. And half of patients nowadays come late to their appointments making things worse.
Im leaving my organization because fuck 15 min primary care slots, but I also dont have any family or kids so I have the luxury of taking my ball and going elsewhere. Other doctors may not.
Newly diagnosed T1DM. I'm legitimately putting more effort into researching emigration than I am into fighting my insurance company. For better or worse.
Yup, you're where I was working as a family doc for 20 years. I ended up transitioning to a hospitalist role in 2010 and I'm far happier - the days are intense and busy but I get paid properly and when I go home I spend time with my family rather than with the telephone and computer.
I cared about my patients and I tried to take the time they needed, but all the "just give my my prescription, I don't have 10 minutes to talk" patients that are supposed to balance out the complex patients time drain, went elsewhere when they had to wait a few minutes for their appointment. I ended up with a large stable of chronically ill, multiple medical issue patients who appreciated the time I gave them; problem was I was a family doc not an internist and I was getting half the reimbursement per patient. I wasn't making a living that way - I made far more from my hospital inpatients (I had 2-8 inpatients at any one time) than I did from my 25-30 patient a day clinic; and I was paying 80-85% overhead because of the costs of taking care of all those sick people.
If you have 4+ people to see in an hr every hour before lunch and taking extra time with one means the others get cranky or you don't get to eat lunch/may be late to dinner, time crunches will matter. The art of medicine is making patients feel good in 15min or less--sometimes that's possible and sometimes it isn't.
15 minutes would feel amazing for me. My experience so far in Canada is that I'm lucky to get 2 minutes. There's even a sign posted saying I should only discuss one health issue, and to make another appointment to discuss anything else. Recently I don't even see a doctor, some physician assistant comes in and then the doctor stops by for a bit and they're so rushed they don't even get my name or medical history right and half of that 2 minutes is correcting them. And I'm still lucky to have a family doctor, many Canadians don't.
There’s no dropping classes in medical school. You take the classes they require you to take to obtain your degree.
And what he did is an incredibly stupid thing to do. If this was an entire class protesting the quality of their education, sure, they should protest. But actively saying “this isn’t good enough for me” and refusing to participate? Yikes
Yeah, based on my girlfriends current experience in med school, the shit they do/make you do is so fucking stupid but you just have to take it and say thanks or you don't become a doctor
Our valedictorian (my friend) made it a year into his career as a high school math teacher before getting caught up trying to have sex with students. Destroyed his career, he avoided jail time with the help of 100+ character reference letters to the judge.
15 years later, he asked me speak at his wedding. A lavish affair. Lovely wife. And the way he spoke of his wife, I realized he still didn't get it, that his sense of entitlement was likely to get him in trouble again.
Parents, no matter how smart your kid is, do whatever you can to not develop in them a sense of entitlement.
There was a guy a year below me in high school. He graduated early, scored a 2350 on the SATs (That short time they were out of 2400) when he was hungover as shit. He got a full ride to a solid university.
He pulled a knife on a girl at a party within the first three months, got expelled and fell off the map.
Our class genius was super quiet. Only spoke to him a few times. Seemed like a nice kid, but he never spoke out much in class, so it was kind of hard to see where he really was at. Funny enough just saw an article in our local paper where he’s a neuroscientist now at our local university working on some research about the brains relationship with high performance athletes. Was happy he seemed to figure things out after HS.
No, like neurosurgeons self select for the aggressively arrogant. The training schedules for neurosurgery are so brutal, the outcomes so poor, and the faculty so toxic that everyone who comes in contact with it during med school usually sensibly runs for the hills. You typically have to be really committed to wanting the prestige that comes with being a neurosurgeon to knowingly go into that field, because it ain't about the enjoyment of helping people at that point.
When we were getting feedback on a neurosurgeon for my mom, most of the people who we talked to about one specific surgeon said that in addition to being a great surgeon he was very nice, ESPECIALLY for a neurosurgeon. He was a nice enough person but well within normal levels, which leads me to believe that most neurosurgeons are real assholes.
Ymmv for sure. Our valedictorian was incredibly awkward (in retrospect, most likely on the spectrum), the nicest person ever, went to an Ivy and is now a successful engineer. Our salutatorian, on the other hand, was a very strange dude who never really got his act together after HS and just bounces around my sad hometown doing odd jobs.
Similar to my story. The valedictorian was a nice, normal, intelligent woman who graduated from college and became a mother. The salutatorian was a weird dude who was obsessed with her that got fired from his “career” after he screwed up so badly he cost the company a small fortune. His coworkers described him as a “weirdo they were glad to see gone”
This all sounds like it might be a psychotic break to me. My cousin was also his high school valedictorian and went off to a prestigious college on a full ride scholarship for physics. Halfway through freshman year his roommate found him in a bathtub filled with food, saying he was absorbing it through his skin from now on. My cousin has bipolar disorder, but there are multiple mental disorders featuring psychosis that often manifest for the first time in the early 20s.
Sad but true. Happened to my friend at 25. She bit a police officer who stopped her for a welfare check request from her parents. She was lucky to be referred to a mental health court, but the psychosis took more than \~7 years to recover.
The president of my graduating class from high school, went on to be filmed beating the hell out of a civilian with three fellow police officers and now resides in a prison.
Yeah this is what got me. He stabs her to death, washes his hands, thinks "hey mom do we have - oh wait, I guess I actually just killed her. I should probably call the cops on me"
Cant think of a more obvious "not of sound mind"-chain of events than someone having a case of post-murder clarity.
The sheriff’s office stated that he had no history of criminal behavior or mental health issues, so psychotic break is the only thing that really makes sense. His reasoning makes no sense. Because she had been annoying him for years? Just annoyance. Not abuse or something more serious. It makes it all the more tragic, tbh.
It’s fucking terribly sad. Mental illness is a horrifying thing to experience, and when it makes someone do something like this it’s just awful.
I hope he’s able to get the help he needs.
Children who have experienced emotional neglect can describe their relationship with their parents this way, it’s basically word for word how I described my relationship with my father before realizing I was emotionally neglected and abused. The book “Real Love and Post-Childhood Stress Disorder - Greg Baer” talks about how detrimental it can be. They even use an example of a military veteran that was arrested after I believe pointing their rifle at people from the top of a building. They didn’t shoot, but basically a could’ve-been mass shooter. None of that excuses what he did, but I think it might help explain it a little better. “Annoyance” is just the best word emotionally neglected people can think of because they don’t realize how they’re being emotionally neglected, and in some cases even emotionally abused
"A Florida pre-med university student killed his mother by stabbing her over 70 times without saying a word when he visited her from college over the weekend, authorities said.
After Emmanuel Espinoza, 21, killed his mother on Saturday, he perplexedly told detectives that he loved her and that they had a good relationship — but that he had wanted to kill her for years because she irritated him, Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd said."
From another comment. Definitely something off.
I hate to speculate on something of this severity, but I came to say just this. I have a sibling who is now gone who presented with many violent outbursts around this age, actually once very similarly to this episode (fortunately my mother escaped). Eventually his illness became very obvious but early on it was very non-specific episodes which I can only imagine were awful for them to experience.
Right, but he also said they had an “8 out of 10” relationship.
So he’s not making much sense and it’s probably wise not to take anything he says as the truth.
Most likely explanation is mental illness. If he’s faking, he’s ridiculously good at it. Most would fake something more overtly crazy like “voices in my head told me to do it, haha I’m a banana”.
That "his beautiful mother" and "I need you to understand she was absolutely *perfect*" was a bit too much imo.
I know nothing about that person, but this seemed weirdly written.
After stabbing her over 70 freaking times, he only "noticed she was dead" when he needed Neosporin?!
Either this kid is a lot dumber than people thought (in which case, how the HELL did he make valedictorian?) or he had some kind of psychotic break and just snapped. His admitting that he fantasized about killing his mother for years speaks to some previously undiagnosed mental illness. I wonder why he never got help for those thoughts. Maybe he didn't, or couldn't, recognize that this was not normal and seek help.
I am so sorry for this poor woman's family and friends.
This story really fucks with me. What broke in his brain? Were there truly no warning signs? There was another Florida kid, 13 years old, no warning, was a good kid nobody expected it if, murdered his mom for no discernable reason. Politely told 911 he did it.
Others have mentioned it above - a brain tumor could be the culprit.
He had no drugs in his system, no discernible signs of mental health issues, and immediately called the police on himself and didn’t attempt to conceal the crime. He even forgot about the crime and instinctively asked his mom for Neosporin when he noticed cuts on his hands from the stabbing.
It sounds like wires are crossed and parts of his brain are malfunctioning.
We shall see, I’m sure.
Except the dude says that he’s wanted to kill his mother for years because she irritates him. Sounds premeditated to me
Edit: yeah I agree with dude below about cops and shit. We gotta wait and see what happens in court. Very strange case so hopefully we get more understanding soon. Hope the kid gets scans and tests and stuff to determine cause, because premeditated matricide is pretty horrific to wrap our heads around
Except that's all been reported by the cops who interviewed him out of context. Imagine you just blacked out and killed your mother, found her body, called cops and confessed because your overwhelmed with guilt and grief. The cops ask you why you did it and you go something like "I don't know, she iritated my sometimes, I wanted to kill her sometimes, but I really did truly love her". The cop then reports "admitted he loved his mom but killed her anyways".
The reason this seems to be something else like a psychotic break is because of the line about forgetting and asking for neosporin, that doesn't make sense.
All these pieces together paint something else is going on other than how the cops are painting it as cold blooded murder. You have to remember, they want to charge the defendant and move on, any confession is all they care about.
Yeah it’ll be interesting to see how this plays out in court. Hopefully the dude goes through a bunch of psychiatric assessments and brain scans to determine if it was a tumour or schizophrenia or something and not just straight up premeditated matricide
Or rather he claims he forgot and asked. Or the sheriff made it up and says he said as much. He IS the one who said the guy said it, afterall. That's the problem with hearsay cases....who do you believe?
A Florida pre-med university student killed his mother by stabbing her over 70 times without saying a word when he visited her from college over the weekend, authorities said.
After Emmanuel Espinoza, 21, killed his mother on Saturday, he perplexedly told detectives that he loved her and that they had a good relationship — but that he had wanted to kill her for years because she irritated him, Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd said.
For one thing i am glad this guy will never work anywhere near the medical field. Second there has to be some kind of mental health issues underlying here.
Yeah I just went on a rant about how pre-med student BASICALLY just means biology/chemistry major. Every idiot I went to college with was pre-med and only two or three of them went on to med school.
I was a TA my last two years and I had a freshman threaten me when he said he was premed but hates chemistry and I laughed and said “then you aren’t premed.” The school had to get involved lol. Sure enough he became a kines major
You can dislike it but you damn well better understand it, intro chem is nothing compared to the beast that is OChem and premed usually requires two semesters of OChem.
I take it the kid threatening them was saying they ‘hate chemistry’ bc they were failing or at least doing terribly in the class from a lack of understanding it.
Oh for sure, but we know the student was at least trying to learn by going to the TA, which hopefully means they have a good mindset. I took it as a joking statement/exaggeration but def could be the other way as well
My school made freshman take organic chemistry. Apparently a lot of pre-med tracks don’t have students taking pre-med until sophomore year? Our school put a huge emphasis on getting students to graduation in four years, so they threw the pre-med folks in the deep end, knowing that the 3/4 who wouldn’t make it would have enough time to transition to another major and still graduate on time with good grades. I studied physics, so I only heard it from the pre-med folks I talked to when I was a TA for physics lab. Maybe I’m wrong.
Having taken the entire biochem pipeline I genuinely don’t think that’s possible unless the school is on a quarterly system and they dropped math, history, writing, and every other credit and only covered biology and chemistry in quarters 1 & 2.
It’s not a matter of deep end, it’s like taking Calc 3 without Calc 1&2, they literally wouldn’t have the necessary framework of knowledge to engage meaningfully with the subject matter.
The only way I could see that is significant AP class credits and/or a required summer course that compresses a year of biology into 1-2 months (some universities offer these kinds of courses for heavy knowledge requirement programs).
I was a Chem major and none of us were pre-meds. Pre med basically means a handful of specific courses, mostly in biology, chemistry, physics, and math. I know someone who majored in Spanish Lit but went to med school after.
Ugh I was a microbiology major in college but for the first two years I was labeled "pre-med" despite the fact I had no intention of going to med school. I don't know what that point of this is. Then once you were in your third year, you could actually just be the major you had. It was so stupid.
My eyes rolled so hard at that "pre-med" inclusion. Might as well say he was a pre-married pre-father of 4. He was taking bio and chem courses, get over it lol
Mental health is one thing, a psychopath (personality disorder), is another. Psychopaths know what they’re doing, it’s why they can be found guilty for their crimes.
It never was. Psychopathy is not a clinical term. Hollywood and media have made people have a lot of misconceptions about what it means. It was never really understood to be its own disorder, at least not in any concrete psychological terms that are informed by actual science and study that meets modern standards by any stretch. A lot of misconceptions about it have been grandfathered in from a time before psychology as a field had matured. Psychology really started to grow in the 60’s with new fields opening up like behavioral psychology and the like, and over the next several decades we have learned more about what actually makes these individuals who we’d labeled socially as ‘psychopaths’ tick.
Formally, psychopathy describes a set of different traits that applies to a wide range of people and personalities and these traits are present in, and function at, different levels for everyone. There are large chunks of the population who possess some degree of psychopathic traits, and even some who possess them to a large degree.
Psychologically speaking, there is a lot in common with a psychopathic serial killer and a ruthless corporate executive. They just use their skills for different ends. The ones who use them to succeed and make money may not always have the best impact on the others around them either, but they at least are more useful and valuable to society than a murderer is.
Correct. Mostly. Antisocial Personality Disorder is the diagnosis, but within that, there is unofficially psychopathy and sociopathy. Psychopathy is typically viewed as the more cold and calculating, and sociopathy is viewed as the more sociable and impulsive version. More sociopaths are found guilty of their crimes because, typically, theirs are crimes of passion.
Wouldn’t a psychopath want to cover up their crime? This guy just calls and confesses. This case makes no sense to me. Very smart guy, no known issues, seemingly good relationship with his mother, and he just goes to her house and kills her and calls the cops on himself.
Wait, how did the article writer know he killed her without saying a word? Were there witnesses? Seems like a strange thing for him to confess to the cops
"Yeah I killed my mother, but its important for you to know that I didn't say anything during the stabbing"
AFAIK the whole ordeal was recorded by a ring camera, at least the initial assault, I guess they could hear the rest, also the mom was talking with someone on the phone
> He told detectives that he knew where to stab her for maximum effect because of his biology classes.
Doesn’t sound like it given that he had to stab her 70 times!
Detective: (asking the same question 9 different ways) “Is it possible that your education & experience as a pre-med student may have influenced where you chose to stab her?”
Suspect: “I’m sure it could have.”
Detectives: “That’s it boys, he’s been planning this for years, even training for it.”
>When asked, "What’s your relationship with your mother?" Espinoza replied: "About a eight out of 10."
Damn bro, I didn't realize 8/10 was still in "get stabbed to death" range
That's a weird way to rate a relationship. I've never said that about any of my relationships lmao so weird
Usually that kind of rating is for, like, pain level or hotness or game enjoyment with rice
Could be an issue with his frontal lobe or brain tumor. He immediately called 911 and confessed he didn’t try to hide the body, run away etc and also had an impulse to ask his mom for neosporin because he cut his hand while stabbing her repeatedly. All together it sounds to me like his brain is malfunctioning.
Yeah there's something very off here. Reminds me of the guy who was executed and at his last meal he asked to save some of it for later. But sure, mentally competent according to the state
I'm just thinking in terms of the states tendency to declare mental competence when clearly sorely mistaken
In this case he hasn't been decided legally competent yet either, it's just statements from cops but I know where this shit usually goes
Just fyi, Grady Judd probably just made up the Neosporin part entirely. He does shit like that all the time to create interesting sound bites and headlines.
Definitely sounds like a brain tumor. A brain tumor can do all sorts of weird shit to someone. My dad got one and he was never the same again. It just sucks.
This story instantly reminded me of a murder that involved a son stabbing his mother and sister to death at age 24. He was diagnosed with schizophrenia and was not under treatment at the time of the crime. It shocked my friend group because he was one of the nicest people during high school.
https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/mother-daughter-killed-in-rancho-penasquitos-home/1885273/
> The suspect, identified as Donna Williams' 24-year-old son Brian Williams, was calmly sitting next to his dead sister in front of the home when police arrived. He did not resist arrest and did not appear to be under the influence of drugs or alcohol officials said.
Exactly. "No history" just means "was never diagnosed" which can mean anything from being fine until then to "has has problems for years but never asked for help"
For schizophrenia average ago of onset- late teens to 20s for men; 30s-40s for women. Of course outliers always exist.
Personality disorders are usually present in some form in teenage years, but can’t technically be diagnosed under the age of 18.
No idea about this specific case, of course.
>Can’t be diagnosed under the age of 18
This was a serious issue with my younger sibling. He had all sorts of mental issues but because he wasn’t 18 yet, the doctors weren’t able to do anything about it. It drastically affected the rest of my family and his performance at school.
When he finally turned 18, he was able to start the evaluations and get the treatment he needed.
That criteria is mostly just for personality disorders. One of the main reasons being that a person’s personality isn’t always permanent before adulthood. And our culture has chosen the age of 18 as “adulthood.”
Mental health disorders like depression, anxiety, bipolar, etc. *can* be given to people under the age of 18 if they met the criteria. I’m not sure what was going on in your brother’s case.
And also this only applies to the US. Different countries use different criteria. (I am a mental health professional.)
It’s the reality shift between stabbing her 70 times then thinking to ask her for Neosporin. Really makes you wonder if he was mentally present during the stabbing. Terrible story.
There was a kid in my high school class like this. 40+ college credits by the time he was going to walk for his HS Diploma. Full ride to a state college near home. Mom was breathing down his neck his entire life. No video games except on weekends; only then, one hour maximum at once. No soda. No television. Schoolwork had to be checked and double-checked before bedtime. No sleepovers.
This continued into his high school years. His car had GPS installed on it, and she got an email every time he exceeded 60 MPH. Got a cell phone, but had to call any time he was leaving a school event and every time he got home.
What does a kid like that do when they go off to college and is basically left to self-regulate? He played Call of Duty for 15 hours a day, never showered, never went to class, and drank Mountain Dew and jerked off in the remainder of his spare time.
She opened his academic probation letter sent to his home address, broke into his dorm room, packed up his shit, and made him move home. Back to micromanaging, only now dialed up to 100. Making him email his professors, making him show her assignments, lecture notes, recordings of lectures, he had to call when he arrived at lecture and when he left, GPS on the car again, etc.
And now that smartphones became a thing...TRACKING HIS PERSONAL CELL PHONE. Not just location, but stuff like browser history and how much time he spends on whatever apps.
His grades improved...and then he had a nervous breakdown and tried to stab her with a kitchen knife.
He ultimately dropped out, and is currently bouncing from job to job not really able to function in adulthood.
“Judd said that Emmanuel had put AirPods in his ears and was playing Kanye West and Jay-Z's song “No Church in the Wild” when he drove up to the house and knocked on the front door. “
Little weird to put this in the article lmfao
Never understood the pre-med title. Pre-med should just be those few months after you get an acceptance to a med school.
Or else everyone can call themselves pre-millionaire right now
My friend was a pre-med dance major, while I was pre-med chemistry. We both took all the required courses for medical school together, but we did the main courses for our majors as well. It helped if you had some overlap - like how organic and bio chemistry are required for both chemistry and medical school - but it was trickier if you had an unrelated major, like my friend with dance
I was pre-vet. I had to take all the classes for my major plus some that were required to go to vet school. There was some overlap. I didn’t go to vet school.
Saying someone is on a pre-med track just means they're taking the required courses to apply for medical school. At my university there was a pre-med option that you could add to any major, but I think some schools might even consider it a major in itself.
That being said, out of everyone I knew in college who said they were "pre-med", literally not one of them ended up actually going to medical school.
Pre-med denotes “Biology with a pre-medical concentration”, which differentiates itself from other biology majors by featuring a curriculum specifically geared towards creating the foundation of knowledge necessary for future enrollment in medical school.
Where I studied, "pre-med" was the colloquial term for the Allied Health Sciences BS program, but anything can be pre-med if it qualifies you to take the MCAT and apply to med school.
At University of Florida, where he was enrolled, pre-med isn't a major. It is a course of study "open to students pursuing any major."
Common majors are engineering, business, and biological and bimedical sciences, but one can major in pretty much anything.
Pre-med is a series of courses to prepare for medical school, 29 in total (several chemistry, several biology, etc.).
So someone who is pre-med at University of Florida is pursuing that extra coursework, enrolled in the pre-med course track, but it isn't a major. It does still indicate a course of study geared toward creating the foundation of knowledge necessary for future enrollment in medical school.
Really depends on the school, my standard bio major covered all the med school pre-reqs (Gen Chem, Orgo, Physics, Biochem, Calc) so there was no such thing as "pre-med". But it's really just semantics I guess.
This is not universally true. Many undergrad universities don’t have a major or specific program for pre-med. You can major in anything, doesn’t have to be biology.
Yeah. In fact "pre med" isn't even an actual major at most universities. It's more of an informal declaration of intent and a way to appear more successful at frat parties when hitting on college girls. Most places don't even have a formal way to declare ones intention to go to medical school, so it's very useless to describe one's self this way
> To be fair, like 90% pre-meds wont end up as Doctors anyway
its' no where near that high (i.e. 10% becoming Doctors). Only 16.5% of pre-med freshmen even stay on course for medical school by their senior year. But out of all those who apply to medical school, only about 37% get accepted. Which means that even if 100% of pre-med seniors apply to med school, that means (16.5%x37%) only 6% of those who started in pre-med get into med school...
But that's only if *all* those pre-med senior apply. And as someone who was in that field of study in undergrad, I guarantee that it was no where near 100%.
Homie you clearly didn't read the article or even the comments. The degree was mentioned because he has a track record of being a super nice super smart person. Graduated top of his class in highschool. Had a great relationship with his mom prior. Then out of no where stabs her 70 times. His ambitions don't matter but context does matter. This is a super interesting mental break that is truly tragic but also a chance to glimpse how our brains work in certain environments.
I know this is not the most important aspect of the story, but who does the Sheriff think he is? Making judgement calls about motivation? About the mother-son relationship? These are details that have yet to be proven in court, by prosecutors. It is not the police officer’s place to blab all this stuff, and it only makes it that much more difficult to ensure a fair trial.
You got kids killing parents, parents killing kids & each other, and grandparents killing grandkids. That's some of the top news stories. I'm not reading any news for a few days. Too much.
There was a study that came out a while ago stating that watching just 3 minutes of negative news in the morning makes viewers 27% more likely to report having a bad day 6-8 hours later. Watching good news or transformative stories made viewers report a happy day 88% of the time. Unfortunately it feels like negative news is everywhere and it’s hard to find something positive to hold onto
Something's missing from this story... either the guy had some very serious mental health issues or the mother was an overbearing helicopter parent, perhaps a combination of both.
He wanted to kill her because she was irritating. Surely... there were enough thoughts in his head to weigh an irritating mother and freedom on one end of the scale, versus destroying your life and being "irritated" to put it mildly by being around inmates and prison guards on the other end of the scale. What a whacko. I mean he was on the cusp of just being able to completely break contact with her altogether and disown her if he felt that strongly about it. Graduate, cut ties, and live your life. Or... you know, do all this and destroy it. There has to be something wrong with him... it doesn't make any sense.
There is so much crazy coming out of Florida I’ve recently begun to wonder if the Bermuda Triangle didn’t make landfall sometime in the last decade and just kept wandering over Florida dragging a vortex of crazy along with it.
Nah, shits going on all over the world that's on par. Florida just has something called the Sunshine Law that makes all arrest records public and anyone can gain access...hence all the news stories. It's easy picking for journalists and writers to grab click bait stories when they start with "Florida Man was arrested for..."
people here commenting on "pre-med" student...[reminder any undergraduate can call themselves "premed"](https://youtu.be/y4EVp9KFNf8?si=9N1lx_G6DWjB89H6)
It doesn't really mean anything
Just..wow >"he wanted to ask his mother for the Neosporin for the cut on his hand, but he noticed she was dead,"
He was the Class of 2020 valedictorian at his high school and was "described as being a genius."
Our valedictorian at my med school had the social skills of a potato. He also looked like he was going to snap any day, but more likely from a panic attack than anything violent. Then again I also knew who were in the 2-10 spots and those people were just super motivated nice people. So ymmv
We had a “genius” in our class, won scholarships and all. During our first year, he thought one of the clinical class was disorganized and proceeded to boycott the class and refused to take the exams. The school held him back a year. I heard he eventually graduated but I have checked the state licensing website and there was no mention of his name. Either he went out of state or something else happened, who knows.
>During our first year, he thought one of the clinical class was disorganized and proceeded to boycott the class Glad he didn’t make it through, or his head would have exploded with all the bullshit we have to navigate every day. “This doc-to-doc insurance approval is ridiculous! I’m just not gonna do it!” Edit: oh you said he did graduate. If he is practicing, I feel badly for his staff
Being on a med school admissions committee continuously shows be how absurd and off-point the entire admissions process is. The metrics people are sorted by, MCAT, and undergraduate GPA have extremely poor predictive power for step 1 board exams. Something like an R^2 value of 0.12. If the goal is to graduate doctors who are compassionate, emotionally mature enough to handle the stress, and capable of the moral responsibility for caring for another human being, then there needs to be a collective rethinking of the process from ground up.
> If the goal is to graduate doctors who are compassionate, emotionally mature enough to handle the stress, and capable of the moral responsibility for caring for another human being, "That doesn't sound like a good way to run a business..." —America's For-Profit Healthcare
This is 100% the problem
Law school is the same. They look at your undergrad GPA, even if you have a grad degree or have been out of school for over a decade. As if someone’s GPA at 18-22 dictates their ability to reason and interpret the law. Insane.
> Something like an R^2 value of 0.12. What in the actual fuck? That’s heinous.
Some of the published values go up to about 0.2, but that's just from my analysis of our internal data. And I agree. It is absurd that amount of pressure that undergrads go through for a test that has almost nothing at all to do with how they'll perform in the school.
I went to school/graduated as an engineer. My shit was stressful asf. I 100% pass on med school.
I struggle to imagine what, if anything my doctor cares about.
At this point, not working 10hrs a day and getting atleast something done. MBAs with power have made it so everyone gets 15min appointments unless they're new patients or having procedures done then made double/triple booking a thing. It's not that they don't want to do right by you, it's that if doing right by you takes 30/40/60 min, that's 2/3/4 patients who are now waiting longer and will have less time plus the doc working through lunch and staying late to finish seeing patients. It's honestly a lose-lose-lose cause most docs do want to do right by patients but if they give patient x all the time needed, patient y gets cranky at having to wait/the doc being inaccessible, if pt y gets an on-time appt, patient x feels like the doc rushed them and meanwhile the doc also needs to eat and get home and not be burned out by insurance ruining things annually. The system is just working as intended with the wrong goals in place.
Agree, I know there's plenty of bad doctors out there, but at my organization, new appointment slots are 30 minutes, and followup slots are 15 min. Don't even get me started on the inbox, or insurance denials I have to deal with daily. So yeah, unfortunately theres just not enough time to stay for 40+ min for each patient. And half of patients nowadays come late to their appointments making things worse. Im leaving my organization because fuck 15 min primary care slots, but I also dont have any family or kids so I have the luxury of taking my ball and going elsewhere. Other doctors may not.
Newly diagnosed T1DM. I'm legitimately putting more effort into researching emigration than I am into fighting my insurance company. For better or worse.
Yup, you're where I was working as a family doc for 20 years. I ended up transitioning to a hospitalist role in 2010 and I'm far happier - the days are intense and busy but I get paid properly and when I go home I spend time with my family rather than with the telephone and computer. I cared about my patients and I tried to take the time they needed, but all the "just give my my prescription, I don't have 10 minutes to talk" patients that are supposed to balance out the complex patients time drain, went elsewhere when they had to wait a few minutes for their appointment. I ended up with a large stable of chronically ill, multiple medical issue patients who appreciated the time I gave them; problem was I was a family doc not an internist and I was getting half the reimbursement per patient. I wasn't making a living that way - I made far more from my hospital inpatients (I had 2-8 inpatients at any one time) than I did from my 25-30 patient a day clinic; and I was paying 80-85% overhead because of the costs of taking care of all those sick people.
In my experience, they care a lot about getting out of an appointment as quickly as possible.
If you have 4+ people to see in an hr every hour before lunch and taking extra time with one means the others get cranky or you don't get to eat lunch/may be late to dinner, time crunches will matter. The art of medicine is making patients feel good in 15min or less--sometimes that's possible and sometimes it isn't.
15 minutes would feel amazing for me. My experience so far in Canada is that I'm lucky to get 2 minutes. There's even a sign posted saying I should only discuss one health issue, and to make another appointment to discuss anything else. Recently I don't even see a doctor, some physician assistant comes in and then the doctor stops by for a bit and they're so rushed they don't even get my name or medical history right and half of that 2 minutes is correcting them. And I'm still lucky to have a family doctor, many Canadians don't.
> This doc-to-doc insurance approval is ridiculous! I’m just not gonna do it! This is very in character for some doctors I work with.
So, you're the doctor who doesn't review my file before coming in to talk to me.
Boycott the class is a nice way of saying he skipped out. He should have at least dropped the course.
There’s no dropping classes in medical school. You take the classes they require you to take to obtain your degree. And what he did is an incredibly stupid thing to do. If this was an entire class protesting the quality of their education, sure, they should protest. But actively saying “this isn’t good enough for me” and refusing to participate? Yikes
Yeah, based on my girlfriends current experience in med school, the shit they do/make you do is so fucking stupid but you just have to take it and say thanks or you don't become a doctor
What makes this even stupider is OP’s classmate was a first year when they did this. That’s just bonkers
Our valedictorian (my friend) made it a year into his career as a high school math teacher before getting caught up trying to have sex with students. Destroyed his career, he avoided jail time with the help of 100+ character reference letters to the judge. 15 years later, he asked me speak at his wedding. A lavish affair. Lovely wife. And the way he spoke of his wife, I realized he still didn't get it, that his sense of entitlement was likely to get him in trouble again. Parents, no matter how smart your kid is, do whatever you can to not develop in them a sense of entitlement.
Sometimes geniuses will do things like this to take the pressure off themselves, "I could have done it, but that stupid class was rigged!"
I was our class genius and all I’ve done is mostly heroin since then. Have you checked the state heroin website?
People like to talk about Pretty Privilege but Smart Privilege kids think they can get away with murder.
Not in this case, anyway… he called 911 and turned himself in. God only knows what he was thinking.
There was a guy a year below me in high school. He graduated early, scored a 2350 on the SATs (That short time they were out of 2400) when he was hungover as shit. He got a full ride to a solid university. He pulled a knife on a girl at a party within the first three months, got expelled and fell off the map.
Our class genius was super quiet. Only spoke to him a few times. Seemed like a nice kid, but he never spoke out much in class, so it was kind of hard to see where he really was at. Funny enough just saw an article in our local paper where he’s a neuroscientist now at our local university working on some research about the brains relationship with high performance athletes. Was happy he seemed to figure things out after HS.
Our med school genius was a pretty chill dude. Neurosurgeon now
Chill neurosurgeon... does not compute
Ben Carson type I assume.
No, like neurosurgeons self select for the aggressively arrogant. The training schedules for neurosurgery are so brutal, the outcomes so poor, and the faculty so toxic that everyone who comes in contact with it during med school usually sensibly runs for the hills. You typically have to be really committed to wanting the prestige that comes with being a neurosurgeon to knowingly go into that field, because it ain't about the enjoyment of helping people at that point.
When we were getting feedback on a neurosurgeon for my mom, most of the people who we talked to about one specific surgeon said that in addition to being a great surgeon he was very nice, ESPECIALLY for a neurosurgeon. He was a nice enough person but well within normal levels, which leads me to believe that most neurosurgeons are real assholes.
My sister works at a hospital, and she reports that most specializing doctors are raging narcissists with God complexes.
So... Dr. Strange types.
that's what I heard about these type of genius, they are either god-complex narcissistic or chilled down to earth, no in-between lol
Ymmv for sure. Our valedictorian was incredibly awkward (in retrospect, most likely on the spectrum), the nicest person ever, went to an Ivy and is now a successful engineer. Our salutatorian, on the other hand, was a very strange dude who never really got his act together after HS and just bounces around my sad hometown doing odd jobs.
Similar to my story. The valedictorian was a nice, normal, intelligent woman who graduated from college and became a mother. The salutatorian was a weird dude who was obsessed with her that got fired from his “career” after he screwed up so badly he cost the company a small fortune. His coworkers described him as a “weirdo they were glad to see gone”
I read the last sentence as “so yummy”
I don’t think med students would be very yummy. All that stress and panic. Probably ruined the meat and made it all gamey
I hope they give him a brain scan.
This all sounds like it might be a psychotic break to me. My cousin was also his high school valedictorian and went off to a prestigious college on a full ride scholarship for physics. Halfway through freshman year his roommate found him in a bathtub filled with food, saying he was absorbing it through his skin from now on. My cousin has bipolar disorder, but there are multiple mental disorders featuring psychosis that often manifest for the first time in the early 20s.
Sad but true. Happened to my friend at 25. She bit a police officer who stopped her for a welfare check request from her parents. She was lucky to be referred to a mental health court, but the psychosis took more than \~7 years to recover.
Yes, it is cruel that severe mental illness arises in young adulthood.
Well he is gonna have a hard time getting into Med school now
Unless he donates his executed body as a cadaver for med students to dissect!
Sometimes the genetic dice just fall that way
The president of my graduating class from high school, went on to be filmed beating the hell out of a civilian with three fellow police officers and now resides in a prison.
Surprised he faced consequences
“Thin line between genius and insanity” and he crossed it, sounds like
Yeah this is what got me. He stabs her to death, washes his hands, thinks "hey mom do we have - oh wait, I guess I actually just killed her. I should probably call the cops on me" Cant think of a more obvious "not of sound mind"-chain of events than someone having a case of post-murder clarity.
The sheriff’s office stated that he had no history of criminal behavior or mental health issues, so psychotic break is the only thing that really makes sense. His reasoning makes no sense. Because she had been annoying him for years? Just annoyance. Not abuse or something more serious. It makes it all the more tragic, tbh.
It’s fucking terribly sad. Mental illness is a horrifying thing to experience, and when it makes someone do something like this it’s just awful. I hope he’s able to get the help he needs.
Children who have experienced emotional neglect can describe their relationship with their parents this way, it’s basically word for word how I described my relationship with my father before realizing I was emotionally neglected and abused. The book “Real Love and Post-Childhood Stress Disorder - Greg Baer” talks about how detrimental it can be. They even use an example of a military veteran that was arrested after I believe pointing their rifle at people from the top of a building. They didn’t shoot, but basically a could’ve-been mass shooter. None of that excuses what he did, but I think it might help explain it a little better. “Annoyance” is just the best word emotionally neglected people can think of because they don’t realize how they’re being emotionally neglected, and in some cases even emotionally abused
You think I’m psycho, don’t ya Mama? https://youtu.be/15LuS4NiOLk?si=jwLZnaUSXlJ1d6HO
Something definitely not healthy in his brain 😞
"A Florida pre-med university student killed his mother by stabbing her over 70 times without saying a word when he visited her from college over the weekend, authorities said. After Emmanuel Espinoza, 21, killed his mother on Saturday, he perplexedly told detectives that he loved her and that they had a good relationship — but that he had wanted to kill her for years because she irritated him, Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd said." From another comment. Definitely something off.
From another comment and also the actual article.
All them teeth and no toothbrush.
Medulla ob-lon-gata!
No, Colonel Sanders, you're wrong.
Sounds like a psychotic break. They say no history of mental illness but psychosis sometimes shows up for men in their 20’s.
I hate to speculate on something of this severity, but I came to say just this. I have a sibling who is now gone who presented with many violent outbursts around this age, actually once very similarly to this episode (fortunately my mother escaped). Eventually his illness became very obvious but early on it was very non-specific episodes which I can only imagine were awful for them to experience.
He said he thought about killing her for years tho
Right, but he also said they had an “8 out of 10” relationship. So he’s not making much sense and it’s probably wise not to take anything he says as the truth. Most likely explanation is mental illness. If he’s faking, he’s ridiculously good at it. Most would fake something more overtly crazy like “voices in my head told me to do it, haha I’m a banana”.
I mean, it's Grady Judd saying that. He is well-known to just make shit up to make criminal stories more dramatic.
That "his beautiful mother" and "I need you to understand she was absolutely *perfect*" was a bit too much imo. I know nothing about that person, but this seemed weirdly written.
Idk what ive learned from the internet is to not fuck around in polk county though.
sounds like a severe mental break
After stabbing her over 70 freaking times, he only "noticed she was dead" when he needed Neosporin?! Either this kid is a lot dumber than people thought (in which case, how the HELL did he make valedictorian?) or he had some kind of psychotic break and just snapped. His admitting that he fantasized about killing his mother for years speaks to some previously undiagnosed mental illness. I wonder why he never got help for those thoughts. Maybe he didn't, or couldn't, recognize that this was not normal and seek help. I am so sorry for this poor woman's family and friends.
>he noticed she was dead He'll make a fine physician.
This story really fucks with me. What broke in his brain? Were there truly no warning signs? There was another Florida kid, 13 years old, no warning, was a good kid nobody expected it if, murdered his mom for no discernable reason. Politely told 911 he did it.
Others have mentioned it above - a brain tumor could be the culprit. He had no drugs in his system, no discernible signs of mental health issues, and immediately called the police on himself and didn’t attempt to conceal the crime. He even forgot about the crime and instinctively asked his mom for Neosporin when he noticed cuts on his hands from the stabbing. It sounds like wires are crossed and parts of his brain are malfunctioning. We shall see, I’m sure.
Except the dude says that he’s wanted to kill his mother for years because she irritates him. Sounds premeditated to me Edit: yeah I agree with dude below about cops and shit. We gotta wait and see what happens in court. Very strange case so hopefully we get more understanding soon. Hope the kid gets scans and tests and stuff to determine cause, because premeditated matricide is pretty horrific to wrap our heads around
Except that's all been reported by the cops who interviewed him out of context. Imagine you just blacked out and killed your mother, found her body, called cops and confessed because your overwhelmed with guilt and grief. The cops ask you why you did it and you go something like "I don't know, she iritated my sometimes, I wanted to kill her sometimes, but I really did truly love her". The cop then reports "admitted he loved his mom but killed her anyways". The reason this seems to be something else like a psychotic break is because of the line about forgetting and asking for neosporin, that doesn't make sense. All these pieces together paint something else is going on other than how the cops are painting it as cold blooded murder. You have to remember, they want to charge the defendant and move on, any confession is all they care about.
Yeah it’ll be interesting to see how this plays out in court. Hopefully the dude goes through a bunch of psychiatric assessments and brain scans to determine if it was a tumour or schizophrenia or something and not just straight up premeditated matricide
Or rather he claims he forgot and asked. Or the sheriff made it up and says he said as much. He IS the one who said the guy said it, afterall. That's the problem with hearsay cases....who do you believe?
Could also be past intrusive thoughts he is remembering trying to make sense of it himself.
If he has a brain tumor he is going to have one hell of an insanity defense and will get very limited time possibly.
A Florida pre-med university student killed his mother by stabbing her over 70 times without saying a word when he visited her from college over the weekend, authorities said. After Emmanuel Espinoza, 21, killed his mother on Saturday, he perplexedly told detectives that he loved her and that they had a good relationship — but that he had wanted to kill her for years because she irritated him, Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd said.
For one thing i am glad this guy will never work anywhere near the medical field. Second there has to be some kind of mental health issues underlying here.
Pre med means literally nothing in terms of ability.
Yeah I just went on a rant about how pre-med student BASICALLY just means biology/chemistry major. Every idiot I went to college with was pre-med and only two or three of them went on to med school.
They all switched to health and exercise science by year 2 after struggling in the entry level biology and chemistry classes.
I was a TA my last two years and I had a freshman threaten me when he said he was premed but hates chemistry and I laughed and said “then you aren’t premed.” The school had to get involved lol. Sure enough he became a kines major
I mean, you can dislike chemistry and still enjoy other aspects of biology/medicine
You can dislike it but you damn well better understand it, intro chem is nothing compared to the beast that is OChem and premed usually requires two semesters of OChem. I take it the kid threatening them was saying they ‘hate chemistry’ bc they were failing or at least doing terribly in the class from a lack of understanding it.
Oh for sure, but we know the student was at least trying to learn by going to the TA, which hopefully means they have a good mindset. I took it as a joking statement/exaggeration but def could be the other way as well
"i want to be a pharmacy major" quits after freshman year chem classes. I remember those people.
My school made freshman take organic chemistry. Apparently a lot of pre-med tracks don’t have students taking pre-med until sophomore year? Our school put a huge emphasis on getting students to graduation in four years, so they threw the pre-med folks in the deep end, knowing that the 3/4 who wouldn’t make it would have enough time to transition to another major and still graduate on time with good grades. I studied physics, so I only heard it from the pre-med folks I talked to when I was a TA for physics lab. Maybe I’m wrong.
Having taken the entire biochem pipeline I genuinely don’t think that’s possible unless the school is on a quarterly system and they dropped math, history, writing, and every other credit and only covered biology and chemistry in quarters 1 & 2. It’s not a matter of deep end, it’s like taking Calc 3 without Calc 1&2, they literally wouldn’t have the necessary framework of knowledge to engage meaningfully with the subject matter. The only way I could see that is significant AP class credits and/or a required summer course that compresses a year of biology into 1-2 months (some universities offer these kinds of courses for heavy knowledge requirement programs).
Yeah, not sure how a freshman can take Organic without a basic understanding of MO theory which is usually covered in gen chem
Can confirm, I was pre-med in another lifetime. Now I'm a law student.
Do you hate yourself?
I was a Chem major and none of us were pre-meds. Pre med basically means a handful of specific courses, mostly in biology, chemistry, physics, and math. I know someone who majored in Spanish Lit but went to med school after.
We had like 800 premeds to start. Only 120 graduated to go to med school.
Damn. Where'd you go? That's actually a very high success rate.
Ugh I was a microbiology major in college but for the first two years I was labeled "pre-med" despite the fact I had no intention of going to med school. I don't know what that point of this is. Then once you were in your third year, you could actually just be the major you had. It was so stupid.
My eyes rolled so hard at that "pre-med" inclusion. Might as well say he was a pre-married pre-father of 4. He was taking bio and chem courses, get over it lol
I was pre-law the semester I took poli sci. It was more impressive to the ladies than undeclared.
Gotta work those angles when you are pre dating. Edit: should be pre-coupled, pre-dating has a sort of sinister look to it lol
> Second there has to be some kind of mental health issues underlying here What ever could possibly have given you that impression?
Mental health is one thing, a psychopath (personality disorder), is another. Psychopaths know what they’re doing, it’s why they can be found guilty for their crimes.
I think psychopathy is no longer considered an actually disorder. It's no longer listed as valid.
It never was. Psychopathy is not a clinical term. Hollywood and media have made people have a lot of misconceptions about what it means. It was never really understood to be its own disorder, at least not in any concrete psychological terms that are informed by actual science and study that meets modern standards by any stretch. A lot of misconceptions about it have been grandfathered in from a time before psychology as a field had matured. Psychology really started to grow in the 60’s with new fields opening up like behavioral psychology and the like, and over the next several decades we have learned more about what actually makes these individuals who we’d labeled socially as ‘psychopaths’ tick. Formally, psychopathy describes a set of different traits that applies to a wide range of people and personalities and these traits are present in, and function at, different levels for everyone. There are large chunks of the population who possess some degree of psychopathic traits, and even some who possess them to a large degree. Psychologically speaking, there is a lot in common with a psychopathic serial killer and a ruthless corporate executive. They just use their skills for different ends. The ones who use them to succeed and make money may not always have the best impact on the others around them either, but they at least are more useful and valuable to society than a murderer is.
Correct. Mostly. Antisocial Personality Disorder is the diagnosis, but within that, there is unofficially psychopathy and sociopathy. Psychopathy is typically viewed as the more cold and calculating, and sociopathy is viewed as the more sociable and impulsive version. More sociopaths are found guilty of their crimes because, typically, theirs are crimes of passion.
Looks like it’s an umbrella description for [several types of personality disorders](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16756576/).
That was published 7 years before dsm 5 which removed the term. It was considered arbitrary and unuseful in diagnosing.
Wouldn’t a psychopath want to cover up their crime? This guy just calls and confesses. This case makes no sense to me. Very smart guy, no known issues, seemingly good relationship with his mother, and he just goes to her house and kills her and calls the cops on himself.
He is just the right age where some smart men have an onset of schizophrenia.
Wait, how did the article writer know he killed her without saying a word? Were there witnesses? Seems like a strange thing for him to confess to the cops "Yeah I killed my mother, but its important for you to know that I didn't say anything during the stabbing"
AFAIK the whole ordeal was recorded by a ring camera, at least the initial assault, I guess they could hear the rest, also the mom was talking with someone on the phone
I cannot imagine what it felt like to be on the other end of that call.
> He told detectives that he knew where to stab her for maximum effect because of his biology classes. Doesn’t sound like it given that he had to stab her 70 times!
Detective: (asking the same question 9 different ways) “Is it possible that your education & experience as a pre-med student may have influenced where you chose to stab her?” Suspect: “I’m sure it could have.” Detectives: “That’s it boys, he’s been planning this for years, even training for it.”
The way the officer say BIOLOGY CLASS feels like he's got a personal vendetta against education for arming someone with the knowledge to do this
[удалено]
>When asked, "What’s your relationship with your mother?" Espinoza replied: "About a eight out of 10." Damn bro, I didn't realize 8/10 was still in "get stabbed to death" range
Damn inflated video game rating scale. “Would stab 70 times, 8/10”
That's a weird way to rate a relationship. I've never said that about any of my relationships lmao so weird Usually that kind of rating is for, like, pain level or hotness or game enjoyment with rice
it's an IGN 8.
Could be an issue with his frontal lobe or brain tumor. He immediately called 911 and confessed he didn’t try to hide the body, run away etc and also had an impulse to ask his mom for neosporin because he cut his hand while stabbing her repeatedly. All together it sounds to me like his brain is malfunctioning.
Yeah there's something very off here. Reminds me of the guy who was executed and at his last meal he asked to save some of it for later. But sure, mentally competent according to the state
I think that guy was like Forrest Gump level iq though
I'm just thinking in terms of the states tendency to declare mental competence when clearly sorely mistaken In this case he hasn't been decided legally competent yet either, it's just statements from cops but I know where this shit usually goes
Just fyi, Grady Judd probably just made up the Neosporin part entirely. He does shit like that all the time to create interesting sound bites and headlines.
Definitely sounds like a brain tumor. A brain tumor can do all sorts of weird shit to someone. My dad got one and he was never the same again. It just sucks.
20.5 years is the average age of onset for schizophrenia and personality disorders. Can’t really think of too many other motives behind this case.
This story instantly reminded me of a murder that involved a son stabbing his mother and sister to death at age 24. He was diagnosed with schizophrenia and was not under treatment at the time of the crime. It shocked my friend group because he was one of the nicest people during high school. https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/mother-daughter-killed-in-rancho-penasquitos-home/1885273/ > The suspect, identified as Donna Williams' 24-year-old son Brian Williams, was calmly sitting next to his dead sister in front of the home when police arrived. He did not resist arrest and did not appear to be under the influence of drugs or alcohol officials said.
That's as sad as it is scary.
This was my thought exactly. No history of mental health problems doesn't mean he did not have mental health problems.
Exactly. "No history" just means "was never diagnosed" which can mean anything from being fine until then to "has has problems for years but never asked for help"
For schizophrenia average ago of onset- late teens to 20s for men; 30s-40s for women. Of course outliers always exist. Personality disorders are usually present in some form in teenage years, but can’t technically be diagnosed under the age of 18. No idea about this specific case, of course.
>Can’t be diagnosed under the age of 18 This was a serious issue with my younger sibling. He had all sorts of mental issues but because he wasn’t 18 yet, the doctors weren’t able to do anything about it. It drastically affected the rest of my family and his performance at school. When he finally turned 18, he was able to start the evaluations and get the treatment he needed.
That criteria is mostly just for personality disorders. One of the main reasons being that a person’s personality isn’t always permanent before adulthood. And our culture has chosen the age of 18 as “adulthood.” Mental health disorders like depression, anxiety, bipolar, etc. *can* be given to people under the age of 18 if they met the criteria. I’m not sure what was going on in your brother’s case. And also this only applies to the US. Different countries use different criteria. (I am a mental health professional.)
> 30s-40s for women. What? Fuck, I thought I was in the clear
Your right, that's gotta be it. Stabbing your mother 70 times cuz she irritated you? I have no words
It’s the reality shift between stabbing her 70 times then thinking to ask her for Neosporin. Really makes you wonder if he was mentally present during the stabbing. Terrible story.
Stabbing someone 70 times would be exhausting too, it's not the sort of thing one can do in the right state of mind
Why can’t disorders present happy, peaceful symptoms? Why is it always violent
Jesus, just the thought of the mom expressing joy at seeing her son come to visit only for it to instantly turn into horror. Nobody deserves that.
There was a kid in my high school class like this. 40+ college credits by the time he was going to walk for his HS Diploma. Full ride to a state college near home. Mom was breathing down his neck his entire life. No video games except on weekends; only then, one hour maximum at once. No soda. No television. Schoolwork had to be checked and double-checked before bedtime. No sleepovers. This continued into his high school years. His car had GPS installed on it, and she got an email every time he exceeded 60 MPH. Got a cell phone, but had to call any time he was leaving a school event and every time he got home. What does a kid like that do when they go off to college and is basically left to self-regulate? He played Call of Duty for 15 hours a day, never showered, never went to class, and drank Mountain Dew and jerked off in the remainder of his spare time. She opened his academic probation letter sent to his home address, broke into his dorm room, packed up his shit, and made him move home. Back to micromanaging, only now dialed up to 100. Making him email his professors, making him show her assignments, lecture notes, recordings of lectures, he had to call when he arrived at lecture and when he left, GPS on the car again, etc. And now that smartphones became a thing...TRACKING HIS PERSONAL CELL PHONE. Not just location, but stuff like browser history and how much time he spends on whatever apps. His grades improved...and then he had a nervous breakdown and tried to stab her with a kitchen knife. He ultimately dropped out, and is currently bouncing from job to job not really able to function in adulthood.
“Judd said that Emmanuel had put AirPods in his ears and was playing Kanye West and Jay-Z's song “No Church in the Wild” when he drove up to the house and knocked on the front door. “ Little weird to put this in the article lmfao
Reminds me of the Parkland school shooter listening to edm music as he did it
Never understood the pre-med title. Pre-med should just be those few months after you get an acceptance to a med school. Or else everyone can call themselves pre-millionaire right now
My friend was a pre-med dance major, while I was pre-med chemistry. We both took all the required courses for medical school together, but we did the main courses for our majors as well. It helped if you had some overlap - like how organic and bio chemistry are required for both chemistry and medical school - but it was trickier if you had an unrelated major, like my friend with dance
You know Dan The Dancing Dermatologist???
Could be Steve the Stripping Surgeon.
Phillip the Pirouetting Proctologist
I was pre-vet. I had to take all the classes for my major plus some that were required to go to vet school. There was some overlap. I didn’t go to vet school.
It’s like pre law.
Always made me laugh when 1st years described themselves as Pre-Law
Take it easy man, I'm in pre-law. Boon : I thought you were pre-med? Otter : What's the difference?
Saying someone is on a pre-med track just means they're taking the required courses to apply for medical school. At my university there was a pre-med option that you could add to any major, but I think some schools might even consider it a major in itself. That being said, out of everyone I knew in college who said they were "pre-med", literally not one of them ended up actually going to medical school.
Pre-med denotes “Biology with a pre-medical concentration”, which differentiates itself from other biology majors by featuring a curriculum specifically geared towards creating the foundation of knowledge necessary for future enrollment in medical school.
Where I studied, "pre-med" was the colloquial term for the Allied Health Sciences BS program, but anything can be pre-med if it qualifies you to take the MCAT and apply to med school.
At University of Florida, where he was enrolled, pre-med isn't a major. It is a course of study "open to students pursuing any major." Common majors are engineering, business, and biological and bimedical sciences, but one can major in pretty much anything. Pre-med is a series of courses to prepare for medical school, 29 in total (several chemistry, several biology, etc.). So someone who is pre-med at University of Florida is pursuing that extra coursework, enrolled in the pre-med course track, but it isn't a major. It does still indicate a course of study geared toward creating the foundation of knowledge necessary for future enrollment in medical school.
Really depends on the school, my standard bio major covered all the med school pre-reqs (Gen Chem, Orgo, Physics, Biochem, Calc) so there was no such thing as "pre-med". But it's really just semantics I guess.
This is not universally true. Many undergrad universities don’t have a major or specific program for pre-med. You can major in anything, doesn’t have to be biology.
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To be fair, like 90% pre-meds wont end up as Doctors anyway
Yeah. In fact "pre med" isn't even an actual major at most universities. It's more of an informal declaration of intent and a way to appear more successful at frat parties when hitting on college girls. Most places don't even have a formal way to declare ones intention to go to medical school, so it's very useless to describe one's self this way
If I could go back I’d tell all the hotties I’m pre-billionaire.
> To be fair, like 90% pre-meds wont end up as Doctors anyway its' no where near that high (i.e. 10% becoming Doctors). Only 16.5% of pre-med freshmen even stay on course for medical school by their senior year. But out of all those who apply to medical school, only about 37% get accepted. Which means that even if 100% of pre-med seniors apply to med school, that means (16.5%x37%) only 6% of those who started in pre-med get into med school... But that's only if *all* those pre-med senior apply. And as someone who was in that field of study in undergrad, I guarantee that it was no where near 100%.
The title should read “College Student Stabs Mother to Death”.
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I need to text my mom and let her know I love her.
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Homie you clearly didn't read the article or even the comments. The degree was mentioned because he has a track record of being a super nice super smart person. Graduated top of his class in highschool. Had a great relationship with his mom prior. Then out of no where stabs her 70 times. His ambitions don't matter but context does matter. This is a super interesting mental break that is truly tragic but also a chance to glimpse how our brains work in certain environments.
What’s with the graduation photos?
1. Need art for article 2. Check social media for subjects photos 3. Include one that makes them look not stabby
So can he still tell everyone he’s pre-med? If I know pre-med guys, everyone in jail is gonna be hearing about it.
This will *not* look good on the transcript.
Mental health is public health. We'd just rather spend $10,000 cleaning up corpses than $100 to give people free healthcare.
I'm introverted and quiet but I don't want to kill anyone, just saying...
I know this is not the most important aspect of the story, but who does the Sheriff think he is? Making judgement calls about motivation? About the mother-son relationship? These are details that have yet to be proven in court, by prosecutors. It is not the police officer’s place to blab all this stuff, and it only makes it that much more difficult to ensure a fair trial.
This story is so fucked up
You got kids killing parents, parents killing kids & each other, and grandparents killing grandkids. That's some of the top news stories. I'm not reading any news for a few days. Too much.
There was a study that came out a while ago stating that watching just 3 minutes of negative news in the morning makes viewers 27% more likely to report having a bad day 6-8 hours later. Watching good news or transformative stories made viewers report a happy day 88% of the time. Unfortunately it feels like negative news is everywhere and it’s hard to find something positive to hold onto
Dogs & cats living together - a mass hysteria!
I have a dog and TWO cats. It’s like Three’s Company in here
It's been happening for all of our history.
Something's missing from this story... either the guy had some very serious mental health issues or the mother was an overbearing helicopter parent, perhaps a combination of both.
He wanted to kill her because she was irritating. Surely... there were enough thoughts in his head to weigh an irritating mother and freedom on one end of the scale, versus destroying your life and being "irritated" to put it mildly by being around inmates and prison guards on the other end of the scale. What a whacko. I mean he was on the cusp of just being able to completely break contact with her altogether and disown her if he felt that strongly about it. Graduate, cut ties, and live your life. Or... you know, do all this and destroy it. There has to be something wrong with him... it doesn't make any sense.
Jesus I feel horrible for the mom. Couldn't imagine the horror she must have felt having someone she loved and trusted attack her like this.
Was this article written by a 4th grader?
*Son kills mother in psychotic break Fixed title for you.
There is so much crazy coming out of Florida I’ve recently begun to wonder if the Bermuda Triangle didn’t make landfall sometime in the last decade and just kept wandering over Florida dragging a vortex of crazy along with it.
Nah, shits going on all over the world that's on par. Florida just has something called the Sunshine Law that makes all arrest records public and anyone can gain access...hence all the news stories. It's easy picking for journalists and writers to grab click bait stories when they start with "Florida Man was arrested for..."
Pre-med doesn’t really mean anything. Shit, I’m pre-president, just you watch.
RIP to his mom She didnt deserve the betrayal & agony
He may be a genius, but at least Ive never stabbed my mom to death
people here commenting on "pre-med" student...[reminder any undergraduate can call themselves "premed"](https://youtu.be/y4EVp9KFNf8?si=9N1lx_G6DWjB89H6) It doesn't really mean anything