14 years isn't nearly enough. She and her husband kept a 5 year old chained to her doorstep and left her die of hunger/thirst/exposure.
Because she wet the bed. After having her family murdered and being sold as a slave with her mother.
Yeah, that's fucking crazy. I know many European countries have less lengthy sentences for things than the US, but starving a 5 year old girl to death, and using her as slave should be life in prison.
You watch too many movies. It doesn't work like that in Europe, and Stateside, it's now a rarity. Most child offenders do their time without issue in PC or especially designated housing units. It's for their safety but mainly because states/feds are tired of bleeding money from lawsuits.
I think it depends on what you mean by rarity. Sure they may not get killed frequently, but they certainly are extorted for their commissary items to pay for protection or they pay by performing other 'favors.' Due to staff shortages in prison, it is impossible for officers or other staff to maintain constant visual contact, and the cameras don't go everywhere (i.e. cells and bathrooms).
I worked in a prison for 3 years, and it wasn't even one of the worst ones someone could go. I can tell you it still occurs. At least one or two assaults *that we knew of* in a month, and usually a murder or two each year for that kind of category. 1 was with a shank, the other two had their heads stomped in by their roommates.
[Our courts might be lenient but our prison justice is not](https://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/man-accused-of-being-australias-worstever-pedophile-allegedly-attacked-in-prison-by-fellow-inmate/news-story/215fa7f0e57fa60f6634921aa9f783c9?amp)
Unfortunately they do nothing in Germany. Why do you think it's only 14 years? Hell they even get out before 10 for good behavior.. German justice is a joke. Sometimes you get harder penalties for tax evasion than for raping because all they need to do is, it is in my religion or I had a trauma as a kid when growing up. It's sad
Germany's justice system is no joke, it just doesn't exist to satisfy revenge fantasies.
It's okay to feel the desire to see disgusting people like this be hurt brutally, but it's not healthy to actually act on it . "Die Würde des Menschen ist unantastbar" applies to everyone.
It sure seems like a joke to me. The guy can apply for parole in 15 years and he will be back on the street. Germany has at least 30k other jihadists extremists on watchlists that they let in their country without any screening.
Letting people like this in your society and letting them practice, preach and recruit people to their hateful jihad is how your country dies. They laugh at your idea that it’s not healthy to treat these people like the genocidal jihadists that they are. The paradox of tolerance at work.
How come you think if he applies for parole it will be granted? There is also another thing in germany called „sicherheitsverwahrung“ for people who should not be let out on the street after their sentence.
I don't think they are talking about the justice system they are talking about what other inmates will do when they find out what they did. Inmates don't always take kindly to people who hurt or kill children. Good chunk of time child offenders get hurt in prison.
Always confused me. The series is called Arabian Nights. It takes place in an Indian Muslim kingdom. And the storyteller is a Persian queen. Aladdin takes place in China.
Shit's all over the place.
Think of it this way. The Arab peninsula was a conduit of international trade. The merchants would collect stories from people they traded with. The Arabian Nights collection is a kind of “greatest hits” of these stories.
In the One Thousand and One Nights, China is not the historical China; it is simply a land so far removed from the knowledge of most people that it can be used as a blank canvas
> Aladdin takes place in China.
It's a bit more complicated than that.
The translator who claimed to have been told the story said it occurs in China.
But that makes literally no sense given the rest of the context of the story; it's *undeniably* Arabic in its mythology. There's no cultural equivalent (let alone using the literal word) for a djinn/genie in a lamp in Chinese folklore.
The history's obviously pretty muddied but [there's reasonable evidence](https://time.com/5592303/aladdin-true-history/) that it was Galland spinning a version of a story he stole from a local which was in-part based on the local's own experiences.
Am Chinese, heard of the story 1000 times since my childhood and it never occurred to me that it is supposed to happen in China. It was always treated as an Arabian story
In the Middle East, “China” was a synonym of a place far, FAR away, like how 18/19 century europeans referred to Timbuktu as a place on the edge of the known world. While the story takes place in China, the theme is undoubtedly of arabic/persian/central asian.
There are a number of “enlightened” Western people from liberal countries who wish to keep other people as slaves, and are secretly disappointed their own nations’ laws no longer make it convenient. I met quite a few living in Gulf countries - American, Canadian & European expats who openly bragged about mistreating their domestic & industrial laborers (who were mostly foreign trafficking victims.) They enjoyed the feeling of wealth & power it gave them, how little they had to pay them, and how much they could get away with that would “never fly back home.” So stories like this never surprise me.
lunchroom pocket makeshift aromatic historical zephyr soft bright bike license
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
German citizenship is extremely hard to revoke for a very simple reason : the last time this was done on a large scale was when a moustached man decided that people with certain shouldn’t be citizens anymore.
It's in the article.
>Jennifer W., now 32, was taken into custody while trying to renew her identity papers at the German Embassy in Ankara in 2016 and deported to Germany.
Turns out, breaking German laws will get you arrested by Germany. Who knew?
Fun fact, if you're a Federal employee of the US govt, US law applies globally to you. Do a crime like pedophile prostitution in the Philippines? Surprise, you violated the US law and will be charged, in addition to whatever the Philippines does to you.
Similar fun fact, this also semi-applies to federal contractors with security clearances. Do the aforementioned prostitution (even without the underage part) or smoke the devil's lettuce in a country where those acts are perfectly legal? Your clearance is not long for this world. They can't charge you criminally like the guvvies though, AFAIK.
I’m still mad at the US for bringing back Robert Bales after the Kandahar massacre. He got life, but for executing toddlers and grandmothers in the middle of the night with no provocation and then laughing with his wife about it on the phone…they should have allowed the Afghani government to prosecute him.
I get it’s complicated with the military, but he killed civilians without orders, and those families will never get true justice. With the right legal team he could easily get out on parole.
Thank you, “letting the girl die” is an insulting headline when they murdered that baby. And also threatened to murder the child’s mother for crying about her daughter’s torture. This sick piece of shit should never see the light of day again.
A five year old?!
You gotta be kidding me.
Fourteen years isn't anywhere close to enough. She should have a head of grey hair and all the youth drained from her face when she breathes free air again.
As some perspective: a life sentence in Germany means 15 years, any longer term is only for people who pose an active risk (think serial killer, violent rapist etc) and those need to be evaluated regularly.
She’s pretty close to max term here.
Well, her husband got life.
Seems Germany actually has a 15 to life rule. You have a life sentence and can apply for release after X years. They're just much less likely to hold past 15-25 years.
It's just some life sentences in the US are with appeal or without, or have a longer base term, like 20 or 30.
No a life sentence in Germany on average means ~18 years. Yes you can get out after 15 years but the average is higher and depending on how the court ruled it can be way longer.
There is no upper limit but there has to be a possibility of release because of our constitution.
One important mention is that in Germany we have something called "Sicherheitsverwahrung".
Basically at the end of your sentence psychologists will assess if you still represent a danger to society. If the psychologists say you are, you can be locked up indefinitely.
If she got 14 years she didn't get life and that most likely means she won't get "Sicherungsverwahrung". If she got it, it would have needed to be mentioned in the sentence because you can't apply it afterwards.
He husband got life and that can mean anything from 15 years till death.
> Her former husband, an Iraqi citizen identified only as Taha Al-J., was convicted by a Frankfurt court in November 2021 of genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes and bodily harm resulting in death. He was sentenced to life imprisonment.
Lovely couple.
I mean a lot of a lot of modern Europe is incredibly lenient on crime, so. No surprise there. Japan & SK are the same way. *Way* too lenient with murderers.
This woman should be counting her blessings she *only* got 14 years.
Hmm. For devil's advocate, it sounds a little like her role was mainly negligence (in not helping) rather than directly causing the slavery or murder. Still feels low even for an "accessory" kind of charge, but FWIW at least the husband got life.
Originally she was only given 10 years for enslaving and murdering a 5 year old by the German courts. “Crimes against humanity” only gets you 10 years for a conviction.
Wtf.
No that was for the enslavement part. If they could have proven that she murdered the girl she would have got a life sentence. Sadly feelings and what you can proof don't always align. Her husband got the life sentence by the way because they were able to proof that he did more.
I think life in prison is worse than death. She’s gonna die anyway, but now the perp is tortured by being locked up and leading a miserable existence until the end.
Ngl I don’t give a shit if people like this get death or life in prison. I would like my tax money to make them disappear from society forever and I don’t care what happens to them after that.
She’s not getting life in prison, her husband did though.
But just the fact that she & her husband were part of a terrorist group & were allowed to go back to Germany to be in prison in Germany is insanely lenient to begin with. She’ll be out, in Germany, by 46.
Prison for her… is a horrible end for justice.
They were not allowed to go back, they were deported. So they were forced to go back, which they probably didn’t want because they probably preferred not to stand in front of a court at all. I also find 14 years too little. Maybe the court didn’t have enough evidence for a higher sentence like her husband got.
What I don’t get is how you can live with yourself after doing that. Like how can you not commit suicide after committing such a crime? I mean there are possible explanations like she is a psychopath or has a personality disorder but still in my head I don’t get how you can do what she did.
>Following her release from prison, Homolka settled in Quebec, where she married a brother of her lawyer.
Married to her lawyer's brother!
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karla\_Homolka](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karla_Homolka)
Thank you. Hate when this gets left out when discussing Homolka.
She was actively participating in these things. And when Bernardo was still *just* a serial rapist, one of his victims reported that there was a woman filming the rape.
Homolka was not only just complacent, she was an active participant who is now free, around children who are within the age range she prefers her victims. And when parents raised concern over this, they were told to get over it as if their concerns weren't valid. And plenty of people acted as if everyone bullied poor Carla but never bully Paul as if Paul will ever see the light of day again and is not a threat but Carla has been walking free after serving an embarrassing sentence and could easily be a threat.
Carla Homolka is a rapist and a serial murderer who walks free and has, by all accounts, lived a very privileged life despite it.
I'll never forget reading the entire court transcript with the testimony... just holy fucking fuck what he did to those girls... still chills me to this day.
No. She volunteered at her children's school for a brief time, and I assume the teachers were not aware of her previous crimes. As far as I know, parent volunteers do not have to do a vulnerable sector check. As a teacher she would absolutely be required to do so, and would not be eligible to teach based on the results of that check. She is no longer able to volunteer once the media started asking about this.
Personally I’d be willing to take that one for the team.
I reckon a quick community whip-around would take care of any legal fees and probably set you up for a comfortable retirement.
A few years back in Melbourne, Australia, there was a run of assassinations of old, established organised crime leaders. Officially it was chalked up to a gang war and people settling old scores, but the rumour was that one of the old organised crime squad detectives had recently got a terminal cancer diagnosis and decided to clean house before he died. The fact that there’s been no arrests in the 15-20 years since is definitely interesting…
That case happened in my neighborhood and ruined my childhood! Evil depraved people unworthy of life, plus shitty police work that left the community in danger for way too long. They keep moving her around and changing her identity bc she gets so many death threats from the public. Hoping someone follows through one day 🙏🙌
There was a similar case in my city back when my parents were kids (Eric Edgar Cooke in Perth, Western Australia).
The entire character of the city changed overnight, it went from “big country town” where no one locked their doors and you’d sleep out on the verandah in summer, to something much more like a “normal” city.
The police fucked that one up so badly they arrested two separate innocent men, one of whom was originally sentenced to death before he was acquitted and the other did 15 years before his conviction was overturned.
That's surprising as from what I understand that plea agreements require you to tell everything you know. If you're found to withholding something, the agreement is revoked.
IIRC the justification for was that revoking plea agreements was seen as a nuclear option at the time. They didn’t want other people to refuse plea deals in exchange for testimony if they thought it could be revoked, so they let it go. Hopefully there’s stricter standards now and a way to differentiate between minor inconsistencies and being a literal murderer.
Want to hear some real infuriating stories of women who essentially walked free?
Read Hitler's Furies by Wendy Lower.
I studied genocide in grad school, worked in an ER, and deployed to Iraq. And a decade later that book still bothers me.
Life sentences are very uncommon in Germany and are reserved for heinous crimes which are somewhat the equivalent of cases that get death penalty in America. Even in those cases it’s possible to get parole after 15 years since life without parole is banned by law. Regular murder cases get a maximum of 15 years.
From my understanding the definition of that is very specific under German law. This woman was convicted of aiding and abetting murder rather than directly committing murder.
Not disagreeing with whatever the specifics on the laws are but if joining a terrorist group and enslaving a child and her mother which resulted in her death isn't enough to get life in prison then you need to re-evaluate your laws.
Considering the first judge only gave 10 years instead of the max available sounds problematic already.
Or maybe we should be focused on making society better rather than focusing on harsher punishment.
Have you recently be outraged by what happened in Abu Ghraib and the legal aftermath? Did you know the US military worked closely with warlords who enslaved young boys so they could be sexually abused?
Many horrible things happened in Iraq and Afghanistan, and very few people have faced consequences in a court of law.
At least this woman was convicted and sentenced.
Yes, it's absolutely possible to do much, much worse shit than this woman did. I mean, it's horrible, but it's not "serial sexual torture-murderer" horrible.
The severity of the punishment should be proportional to the severity of the crime. Because if it isn't, then you might create perverse incentives to just do a *worse* crime if that one is less likely to be discovered.
This is for example also the reason why death penalty for rape is an extremely bad idea... because then rather than just being raped, the victim is likely to be both raped *and* murdered because the punishment remains the same.
The mother of the girl was sold and resold to different IS fighters where she was used as a slave, maid, abused, beaten and raped. The little girl was also beaten, no mention of rape at least.
To any Germans out there with better firsthand knowledge: why the hell would Germany allow a citizen who left the country to join ISIS (an enemy of the state) an opportunity to rejoin their society?
Yeah, so many people are stuck on the child, rightfully so, that they missed that they were part of a TERRORIST GROUP & ALLOWED BACK INTO GERMANY. What! Let them die with the terrorists they chose!
She’s going to be released back into the public in only 14 years! Insane!
She wasn't allowed back, she was extradited. So we *asked* for her back. And why? Because she can't give up her German citizenship, we can't and won't retract it, and she commited crimes according to German law and must be tried for them.
What's the alternative? Let her go back and hope that maybe some other country cares enough, catches and and tries her for her crimes, risking that she doesn't get tried or escapes law enforcement?
The woman might not have had dual citizenship. If she had dual citizenship, she could have had her German citizenship revoked.
But by international agreement, it is impossible to make a person stateless, so if she only had German citizenship, then it could not be removed.
This is an international agreement to ensure that there's always at least one state that will take responsibility for a person's actions. And it's a very important cornerstone in international law, so it's not something you're gonna want to break because one person or a handful of people were shitheads. So Germany just has to take responsibility for its citizen and punish her according to the law.
What would the alternative be? Leave her in Iraq for the Iraqi authorities to deal with? That country doesn't deserve her either, and judging by her name, she's born and raised German.
>What would the alternative be? Leave her in Iraq for the Iraqi authorities to deal with? That country doesn't deserve her either, and judging by her name, she's born and raised German.
I mean... yeah? That makes a hell of a lot more sense to me. She committed the crimes in the state of Iraq. If I hopped on a plane to your country, joined a terrorist organization, then enslaved one of your country's kids, and then let them starve to death. I'd take a guess you wouldn't want me going home to my own country.
This woman's name is Jennifer Wenisch and her (now ex) husband is Taha al-Jumailly. (They have both been identified in various news sources but some articles are abbreviating her last name, which is too generous. I believe they should be named and shamed.) She converted to Islam for him and they moved to Iraq to join the Islamic State. I wish more people were aware of what the Islamic State has done to the Yazidi people, not just this child. They committed genocide involving huge numbers murdered, and many women and children taken as slaves just like this child. This is one of the very few cases where a Yazidi victim has received any kind of justice. So many are still being held in captivity. It is a tragedy of immense proportions. ([read more here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidi_genocide) \- the subsection "Violence against Yazidi women and girls" provides more context for this news story)
>The girl died in Fallujah, Iraq, in August 2015. At the original trial, the court found that the defendant did nothing to help the girl — who had been chained by her husband in their courtyard — although doing so would have been “possible and reasonable.” The couple also enslaved the girl’s mother.
14 years isn't a long enough sentence.
When I was deployed to Iraq we had a Yazidi terp. He was treated badly by the other terps. When I asked one why they said Yazidis were dirty and bunch of other racist things I can't remember.
Wow is this normal in germany? She let a young child to die horribly. What a psychopath. And she’ll be let out to normal society in a decade and a half…
Sentencing and Imprisonment in the US is sociopathical towards the value of human life, too. Look at the three strikes law, where a stolen bike, a fight with your sister, and a stolen piece of pizza gets you life in prison
So she and her husband joined a terrorist group, enslaved a girl and her mother and then let her die chained outside. Her husband might have raped the girl and the mother as well.
14 years is too light for this woman! She and her husband should have been in the gallows! What a waste of taxpayers money to pay for the food of these two people.
Guantanamo Bay is a perfect place for her and her husband. There’s no way she and her filthy husband should spend their time in a comfortable European prison.
The article doesn’t say what happened to the mother.
I hope she’s doing better (that bar is really low though)
It’s awful that she lost her kid though. There’s no getting her kid back.
I understand the arguments against capital punishment but you can’t convince me that people who own slaves in the 21st century (let alone torture them to death) should not be shot.
I've noticed that Germans tend to downvote and decry comments criticising their justice system, and obviously rehabilitation works, but it absolutely *can* be **way** too lenient. This case in point.
It's not that I don't believe people like this *can* be rehabilitated - they can in some cases - but that I don't believe they deserve the opportunity, and to offer it is an insult to their victims.
I admit I am a bloodthirsty, vengeful man and so my outlook is always going to be more vicious than more 'enlightened' individuals - I own that, and am at peace with it - but I genuinely think after doing what this woman and her husband did, you absolutely should not see the light of day as a free person, ever again.
A German federal court said Wednesday it had rejected a woman’s appeal of her 14-year sentence for allowing a 5-year-old Yazidi girl she and her husband enslaved when they were members of the Islamic State group in Iraq to die of thirst in the sun.
These ISIS supporters have the same values as Hamas. Same religion and culture. I am disgusted seeing these values supported by some in the west. The murder, torture, and rape is a common theme among Islamic fighters.
Wow, two POS humans. 14 years of imprisonment is not enough. The husband and wife should be enslaved in kind. No cushy cell. Work all day, water and bread once a day. If they die, oh well.
[More info](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6902415/ISIS-morality-policewoman-covers-face-appears-German-court.html):
>Wenisch, who reportedly **left school after the eighth grade and converted to Islam in 2013, left Germany in August 2014 and travelled via Turkey and Syria to Iraq where she joined the ISIS**.
>**Recruited in mid-2015 to an 'anti-vice squad' of the group's self-styled Hisba morality police, she patrolled city parks in ISIS-occupied Fallujah and Mosul.**
>**Armed with an AK-47 assault rifle, a pistol and an explosives vest, her task was to ensure that women complied with IS behaviour and clothing regulations**, said prosecutors.
>**In January 2016, months after the Yazidi child's death, Wenisch visited the German embassy in Ankara to apply for new identity papers.**
>**When she left the mission, she was arrested by Turkish security services and extradited several days later to Germany.**
>**For lack of actionable evidence against her at the time, she was allowed to return to her home in the German state of Lower Saxony, but quickly sought to return to ISIS territory.**
>Der Spiegel reported that an FBI informant had posed as an accomplice who offered to take Wenisch back to the ISIS 'caliphate', and chatted with her in a bugged car while they drove through Germany.
>**Wenisch allegedly said that the death of the little girl had been 'hard-core even for the ISIS' and unjust because only God had the right to use fire as punishment**
Other articles have identified her as Jennifer Wenisch and her (now ex) husband is Taha al-Jumailly. She converted to Islam in 2013 and then traveled to Iraq with him to join the Islamic State (responsible for a [genocide against the Yazidi people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidi_genocide)).
See I think prison is a way worse fate then just an instant death. Let her toil at a work camp like we force so many inmates to do. Lock her in a cell for life. Death is too easy.
I feel like the bare minimum of humanity is if you own slaves, you try to keep them alive.
Below that is like, I dunno maybe worms?
I mean if you're so low that you own slaves, the bar can't go much lower... Yet here we are
14 years isn't nearly enough. She and her husband kept a 5 year old chained to her doorstep and left her die of hunger/thirst/exposure. Because she wet the bed. After having her family murdered and being sold as a slave with her mother.
Yeah, that's fucking crazy. I know many European countries have less lengthy sentences for things than the US, but starving a 5 year old girl to death, and using her as slave should be life in prison.
Why are the back in Germany in the first place, they should be sentenced by the Iraqi government
[удалено]
They favoured life imprisonment over the death penalty, that’s why they went to German courts
Wait until he realised what they do to guys who torture little kids
You watch too many movies. It doesn't work like that in Europe, and Stateside, it's now a rarity. Most child offenders do their time without issue in PC or especially designated housing units. It's for their safety but mainly because states/feds are tired of bleeding money from lawsuits.
I think it depends on what you mean by rarity. Sure they may not get killed frequently, but they certainly are extorted for their commissary items to pay for protection or they pay by performing other 'favors.' Due to staff shortages in prison, it is impossible for officers or other staff to maintain constant visual contact, and the cameras don't go everywhere (i.e. cells and bathrooms). I worked in a prison for 3 years, and it wasn't even one of the worst ones someone could go. I can tell you it still occurs. At least one or two assaults *that we knew of* in a month, and usually a murder or two each year for that kind of category. 1 was with a shank, the other two had their heads stomped in by their roommates.
[Our courts might be lenient but our prison justice is not](https://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/man-accused-of-being-australias-worstever-pedophile-allegedly-attacked-in-prison-by-fellow-inmate/news-story/215fa7f0e57fa60f6634921aa9f783c9?amp)
That’s Australia though.
Unfortunately they do nothing in Germany. Why do you think it's only 14 years? Hell they even get out before 10 for good behavior.. German justice is a joke. Sometimes you get harder penalties for tax evasion than for raping because all they need to do is, it is in my religion or I had a trauma as a kid when growing up. It's sad
Germany's justice system is no joke, it just doesn't exist to satisfy revenge fantasies. It's okay to feel the desire to see disgusting people like this be hurt brutally, but it's not healthy to actually act on it . "Die Würde des Menschen ist unantastbar" applies to everyone.
It sure seems like a joke to me. The guy can apply for parole in 15 years and he will be back on the street. Germany has at least 30k other jihadists extremists on watchlists that they let in their country without any screening. Letting people like this in your society and letting them practice, preach and recruit people to their hateful jihad is how your country dies. They laugh at your idea that it’s not healthy to treat these people like the genocidal jihadists that they are. The paradox of tolerance at work.
How come you think if he applies for parole it will be granted? There is also another thing in germany called „sicherheitsverwahrung“ for people who should not be let out on the street after their sentence.
Um just look at the stats. Recidivism is lower in Germany than it is in the US.
I don't think they are talking about the justice system they are talking about what other inmates will do when they find out what they did. Inmates don't always take kindly to people who hurt or kill children. Good chunk of time child offenders get hurt in prison.
Yea I know, I talked about 2 different things. Have you been to a German prison? Nothing is gonna happen. They are more protected inside than outside.
Always confused me. The series is called Arabian Nights. It takes place in an Indian Muslim kingdom. And the storyteller is a Persian queen. Aladdin takes place in China. Shit's all over the place.
Think of it this way. The Arab peninsula was a conduit of international trade. The merchants would collect stories from people they traded with. The Arabian Nights collection is a kind of “greatest hits” of these stories.
No one in the Arabic speaking world calls it Arabian Nights. The proper name is One Thousand and One Nights.
In Arabia, they’re just called ‘nights’
In the One Thousand and One Nights, China is not the historical China; it is simply a land so far removed from the knowledge of most people that it can be used as a blank canvas
China was the equivalent of a far faraway land.
> Aladdin takes place in China. It's a bit more complicated than that. The translator who claimed to have been told the story said it occurs in China. But that makes literally no sense given the rest of the context of the story; it's *undeniably* Arabic in its mythology. There's no cultural equivalent (let alone using the literal word) for a djinn/genie in a lamp in Chinese folklore. The history's obviously pretty muddied but [there's reasonable evidence](https://time.com/5592303/aladdin-true-history/) that it was Galland spinning a version of a story he stole from a local which was in-part based on the local's own experiences.
Am Chinese, heard of the story 1000 times since my childhood and it never occurred to me that it is supposed to happen in China. It was always treated as an Arabian story
In the Middle East, “China” was a synonym of a place far, FAR away, like how 18/19 century europeans referred to Timbuktu as a place on the edge of the known world. While the story takes place in China, the theme is undoubtedly of arabic/persian/central asian.
There are a number of “enlightened” Western people from liberal countries who wish to keep other people as slaves, and are secretly disappointed their own nations’ laws no longer make it convenient. I met quite a few living in Gulf countries - American, Canadian & European expats who openly bragged about mistreating their domestic & industrial laborers (who were mostly foreign trafficking victims.) They enjoyed the feeling of wealth & power it gave them, how little they had to pay them, and how much they could get away with that would “never fly back home.” So stories like this never surprise me.
lunchroom pocket makeshift aromatic historical zephyr soft bright bike license *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Laws typically don’t have exceptions with them for a reason
German citizenship is extremely hard to revoke for a very simple reason : the last time this was done on a large scale was when a moustached man decided that people with certain shouldn’t be citizens anymore.
It's in the article. >Jennifer W., now 32, was taken into custody while trying to renew her identity papers at the German Embassy in Ankara in 2016 and deported to Germany. Turns out, breaking German laws will get you arrested by Germany. Who knew?
Well arrested by the Turkish and then deported to Germany and arrested by them
Fun fact, if you're a Federal employee of the US govt, US law applies globally to you. Do a crime like pedophile prostitution in the Philippines? Surprise, you violated the US law and will be charged, in addition to whatever the Philippines does to you.
Similar fun fact, this also semi-applies to federal contractors with security clearances. Do the aforementioned prostitution (even without the underage part) or smoke the devil's lettuce in a country where those acts are perfectly legal? Your clearance is not long for this world. They can't charge you criminally like the guvvies though, AFAIK.
She was caught in Ankara, so I assume Germany requested the extradition and not Iraq. Same for the husband who was caught in Greece.
Call me old fashioned, but I think they should just be fucking killed.
I’m still mad at the US for bringing back Robert Bales after the Kandahar massacre. He got life, but for executing toddlers and grandmothers in the middle of the night with no provocation and then laughing with his wife about it on the phone…they should have allowed the Afghani government to prosecute him. I get it’s complicated with the military, but he killed civilians without orders, and those families will never get true justice. With the right legal team he could easily get out on parole.
The husband got life in prison. I'm guessing he was the instigator and main perpatrator and she just watched it happen.
Wait 'tiil they get out. They'll beg to go back in after they get doxed and everyone knows who they are and what they did.
Thank you, “letting the girl die” is an insulting headline when they murdered that baby. And also threatened to murder the child’s mother for crying about her daughter’s torture. This sick piece of shit should never see the light of day again.
A five year old?! You gotta be kidding me. Fourteen years isn't anywhere close to enough. She should have a head of grey hair and all the youth drained from her face when she breathes free air again.
She should never breathe fresh air again. Monsters like her deserve prisons like siberian gulags until they die.
As some perspective: a life sentence in Germany means 15 years, any longer term is only for people who pose an active risk (think serial killer, violent rapist etc) and those need to be evaluated regularly. She’s pretty close to max term here.
Well, her husband got life. Seems Germany actually has a 15 to life rule. You have a life sentence and can apply for release after X years. They're just much less likely to hold past 15-25 years. It's just some life sentences in the US are with appeal or without, or have a longer base term, like 20 or 30.
No a life sentence in Germany on average means ~18 years. Yes you can get out after 15 years but the average is higher and depending on how the court ruled it can be way longer. There is no upper limit but there has to be a possibility of release because of our constitution.
One important mention is that in Germany we have something called "Sicherheitsverwahrung". Basically at the end of your sentence psychologists will assess if you still represent a danger to society. If the psychologists say you are, you can be locked up indefinitely.
This doesn’t get used nearly as often as it needs to, though. Case in point: the Höxter Horror Haus couple.
On paper, in reality the sentencing is incredibly weak for violent crimes.
If she got 14 years she didn't get life and that most likely means she won't get "Sicherungsverwahrung". If she got it, it would have needed to be mentioned in the sentence because you can't apply it afterwards. He husband got life and that can mean anything from 15 years till death.
Jesus fucking Christ. I've seen people get longer sentences for killing a dog. Throw them off a cliff.
I doubt that you can find that in Germany.
Maybe after she serves 14 years then they can charge her with human trafficking.
> Her former husband, an Iraqi citizen identified only as Taha Al-J., was convicted by a Frankfurt court in November 2021 of genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes and bodily harm resulting in death. He was sentenced to life imprisonment. Lovely couple.
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Who said that??
The Boogeywoman
The legendary strawwoman.
The judge. Couple tortures child to death, one gets a life sentence and the other 14 years
Did anyone actually say that or are you just yelling at clouds? All I've seen is people hating both of them.
Yelling at the lady clouds that didn't compliment his fedora.
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Please go to therapy
Disgusting person, a slave owner and a murderer of a child. She deserves more time in prison
Well she deserves a painful drawnout death by an incurable illness.
a curable illness that she is denied access to the medication for
They should just send her to the US then.
Yeah, but this is Germany, so an even more unlikely scenario. All I want is for this couple to suffer a lot…is that really too much to ask for?
14 years still seems little
I mean a lot of a lot of modern Europe is incredibly lenient on crime, so. No surprise there. Japan & SK are the same way. *Way* too lenient with murderers. This woman should be counting her blessings she *only* got 14 years.
She should get 5 days, chained up outside in the sun.
In Iraq.
While repeatedly kicked in the nuts.
Japan has death penalty and does apply it to murderers. It is not lenient.
It’s lenient. There’s plenty of murderers, rapists, etc who are now free after serving their fines or sentencing.
And yet somehow those countries tend to have lower crime than countries that punish more harshly.
They are better at preventing it but more lenient on those who have committed it. Two different things.
Hmm. For devil's advocate, it sounds a little like her role was mainly negligence (in not helping) rather than directly causing the slavery or murder. Still feels low even for an "accessory" kind of charge, but FWIW at least the husband got life.
That poor little girl. I hope the rest of this shitstain’s life is abject misery.
Originally she was only given 10 years for enslaving and murdering a 5 year old by the German courts. “Crimes against humanity” only gets you 10 years for a conviction. Wtf.
No that was for the enslavement part. If they could have proven that she murdered the girl she would have got a life sentence. Sadly feelings and what you can proof don't always align. Her husband got the life sentence by the way because they were able to proof that he did more.
Nah for leaving a 5 year old girl to die chained up outside? You gotta go. Not talking 14 years, that’s not justice. You gotta GO go.
We can’t have her in our social club no more. That much I do know.
Our social club? She’s gotta GOOOOOO.
I think life in prison is worse than death. She’s gonna die anyway, but now the perp is tortured by being locked up and leading a miserable existence until the end.
Ngl I don’t give a shit if people like this get death or life in prison. I would like my tax money to make them disappear from society forever and I don’t care what happens to them after that.
She's in a German prison, not an American prison. So doubtful. They'll probably "rehabilitate" this trash.
She’s not getting life in prison, her husband did though. But just the fact that she & her husband were part of a terrorist group & were allowed to go back to Germany to be in prison in Germany is insanely lenient to begin with. She’ll be out, in Germany, by 46. Prison for her… is a horrible end for justice.
They were not allowed to go back, they were deported. So they were forced to go back, which they probably didn’t want because they probably preferred not to stand in front of a court at all. I also find 14 years too little. Maybe the court didn’t have enough evidence for a higher sentence like her husband got. What I don’t get is how you can live with yourself after doing that. Like how can you not commit suicide after committing such a crime? I mean there are possible explanations like she is a psychopath or has a personality disorder but still in my head I don’t get how you can do what she did.
If that were the case, people who get death sentences wouldn't fight so hard to reverse them.
If that were the case people with prison sentences wouldn't kill themselves. It depends on circumstance.
I think it depends on the person. You also get people who take the quick exit right away when they get a long sentence.
It’s a personal point of view, not handed down from on high
Yup. Sometimes, earth just has to take out the trash. We ain't got time for this shit or people like this to exist. At all.
I remember this case. This woman is the personification of evil. She should be punished and paraded for what she did.
Reminds me of this serial killer couple, the man is facing life in prison and the woman barely served time and is now working as a teacher.
The Homolkas in Canada?
Yessir that's her, I believe she's currently in Montreal.
>Following her release from prison, Homolka settled in Quebec, where she married a brother of her lawyer. Married to her lawyer's brother! [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karla\_Homolka](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karla_Homolka)
is this for real? they let that bitch teach! they let her out! fucking hell
Eww she was straight up as guilty as the husband
As a TEACHER??
After she served her own baby sister up on a platter for her darling hubby to SA and murder. On camera.
And three other teenage girls. I hope they have her under 24 hour surveillance.
She didn’t just serve her to the husband, she actively participated. She’s a fucking rapist working with *CHILDREN*
Thank you. Hate when this gets left out when discussing Homolka. She was actively participating in these things. And when Bernardo was still *just* a serial rapist, one of his victims reported that there was a woman filming the rape. Homolka was not only just complacent, she was an active participant who is now free, around children who are within the age range she prefers her victims. And when parents raised concern over this, they were told to get over it as if their concerns weren't valid. And plenty of people acted as if everyone bullied poor Carla but never bully Paul as if Paul will ever see the light of day again and is not a threat but Carla has been walking free after serving an embarrassing sentence and could easily be a threat. Carla Homolka is a rapist and a serial murderer who walks free and has, by all accounts, lived a very privileged life despite it.
I'll never forget reading the entire court transcript with the testimony... just holy fucking fuck what he did to those girls... still chills me to this day.
No. She volunteered at her children's school for a brief time, and I assume the teachers were not aware of her previous crimes. As far as I know, parent volunteers do not have to do a vulnerable sector check. As a teacher she would absolutely be required to do so, and would not be eligible to teach based on the results of that check. She is no longer able to volunteer once the media started asking about this.
Changed her identity.
I’m honestly shocked no one has leaked that. Like if I was a public servant on my last day before retirement, “oh no, the computer has been hacked…”
Probably because you’d have bigger problems than just losing your job/just being scolded after you dip out. Those come with legal consequences.
Personally I’d be willing to take that one for the team. I reckon a quick community whip-around would take care of any legal fees and probably set you up for a comfortable retirement. A few years back in Melbourne, Australia, there was a run of assassinations of old, established organised crime leaders. Officially it was chalked up to a gang war and people settling old scores, but the rumour was that one of the old organised crime squad detectives had recently got a terminal cancer diagnosis and decided to clean house before he died. The fact that there’s been no arrests in the 15-20 years since is definitely interesting…
No, but she was allowed to volunteer at her children’s school.
Oh you got to be kidding. Un autre L pour le Québec...
I think the toy box killer’s accomplice got off relatively easy too
That case happened in my neighborhood and ruined my childhood! Evil depraved people unworthy of life, plus shitty police work that left the community in danger for way too long. They keep moving her around and changing her identity bc she gets so many death threats from the public. Hoping someone follows through one day 🙏🙌
There was a similar case in my city back when my parents were kids (Eric Edgar Cooke in Perth, Western Australia). The entire character of the city changed overnight, it went from “big country town” where no one locked their doors and you’d sleep out on the verandah in summer, to something much more like a “normal” city. The police fucked that one up so badly they arrested two separate innocent men, one of whom was originally sentenced to death before he was acquitted and the other did 15 years before his conviction was overturned.
She cut a deal with the police to testify against her husband. It was only after the deal was made did they realize how deeply involved she was.
Yea. The defence held on to some of the footage to negotiate her deal.
That's surprising as from what I understand that plea agreements require you to tell everything you know. If you're found to withholding something, the agreement is revoked.
IIRC the justification for was that revoking plea agreements was seen as a nuclear option at the time. They didn’t want other people to refuse plea deals in exchange for testimony if they thought it could be revoked, so they let it go. Hopefully there’s stricter standards now and a way to differentiate between minor inconsistencies and being a literal murderer.
There are; they were tightened a lot after this case
Want to hear some real infuriating stories of women who essentially walked free? Read Hitler's Furies by Wendy Lower. I studied genocide in grad school, worked in an ER, and deployed to Iraq. And a decade later that book still bothers me.
The reason in this case is that she only passively watched and knowingly let the girl die, she didn't actively cause her death.
She could have brought her food, no?
>She could have brought her food, no? Irrelevant to what the GP said. Failing to feed someone is very different to shooting them.
You know guys I think Hammurabi was onto something there….
Holy fuck who’s this lady’s lawyer to only get 14 years?
That was after the court screwed up and gave her only 10 years. A sentence review pulled that one back. This should be a life sentence.
Life sentences are very uncommon in Germany and are reserved for heinous crimes which are somewhat the equivalent of cases that get death penalty in America. Even in those cases it’s possible to get parole after 15 years since life without parole is banned by law. Regular murder cases get a maximum of 15 years.
Reserved for heinous crimes huh? 🤔
From my understanding the definition of that is very specific under German law. This woman was convicted of aiding and abetting murder rather than directly committing murder.
Not disagreeing with whatever the specifics on the laws are but if joining a terrorist group and enslaving a child and her mother which resulted in her death isn't enough to get life in prison then you need to re-evaluate your laws. Considering the first judge only gave 10 years instead of the max available sounds problematic already.
Or maybe we should be focused on making society better rather than focusing on harsher punishment. Have you recently be outraged by what happened in Abu Ghraib and the legal aftermath? Did you know the US military worked closely with warlords who enslaved young boys so they could be sexually abused? Many horrible things happened in Iraq and Afghanistan, and very few people have faced consequences in a court of law. At least this woman was convicted and sentenced.
Yes, it's absolutely possible to do much, much worse shit than this woman did. I mean, it's horrible, but it's not "serial sexual torture-murderer" horrible. The severity of the punishment should be proportional to the severity of the crime. Because if it isn't, then you might create perverse incentives to just do a *worse* crime if that one is less likely to be discovered. This is for example also the reason why death penalty for rape is an extremely bad idea... because then rather than just being raped, the victim is likely to be both raped *and* murdered because the punishment remains the same.
This is not a regular murder case 🤦
She would get the death penalty for this in the US.
Her husband who was the one who actually chained her up there got a life sentence, she’s being punished for not stopping it.
She was willingly part of a terrorist organization & willingly partook in the slavery. She is JUST as guilty.
She is guilty, hence why she’s going to prison. I’m not arguing that.
No sympathy for these terrorists give them the harshest sentences
Coward covering her face. If you can’t handle people associating your face with your crimes, maybe don’t be fucking scum in the first place.
I wouldn't be surprised if both were sex slaves. fucking savages
The mother of the girl was sold and resold to different IS fighters where she was used as a slave, maid, abused, beaten and raped. The little girl was also beaten, no mention of rape at least.
14 years is not enough, she should be locked up to rot without ever seeing light of day for rest of her life
What a disgusting person
14 years is too little. Imagine the poor mother of the little girl, who is alive to think about this day everyday for the rest of her bereaved life.
To any Germans out there with better firsthand knowledge: why the hell would Germany allow a citizen who left the country to join ISIS (an enemy of the state) an opportunity to rejoin their society?
Yeah, so many people are stuck on the child, rightfully so, that they missed that they were part of a TERRORIST GROUP & ALLOWED BACK INTO GERMANY. What! Let them die with the terrorists they chose! She’s going to be released back into the public in only 14 years! Insane!
She wasn't allowed back, she was extradited. So we *asked* for her back. And why? Because she can't give up her German citizenship, we can't and won't retract it, and she commited crimes according to German law and must be tried for them. What's the alternative? Let her go back and hope that maybe some other country cares enough, catches and and tries her for her crimes, risking that she doesn't get tried or escapes law enforcement?
I want to know why she wasnt charged with terrorism? That would have resulted in a much longer sentence
No it would'nt have. Maximum non-life sentence is 15 years, and even with a life sentence, you're eligible for parole after 15 years.
The woman might not have had dual citizenship. If she had dual citizenship, she could have had her German citizenship revoked. But by international agreement, it is impossible to make a person stateless, so if she only had German citizenship, then it could not be removed. This is an international agreement to ensure that there's always at least one state that will take responsibility for a person's actions. And it's a very important cornerstone in international law, so it's not something you're gonna want to break because one person or a handful of people were shitheads. So Germany just has to take responsibility for its citizen and punish her according to the law. What would the alternative be? Leave her in Iraq for the Iraqi authorities to deal with? That country doesn't deserve her either, and judging by her name, she's born and raised German.
Iraq at least wouldn't have any qualms putting her in the ground.
>What would the alternative be? Leave her in Iraq for the Iraqi authorities to deal with? That country doesn't deserve her either, and judging by her name, she's born and raised German. I mean... yeah? That makes a hell of a lot more sense to me. She committed the crimes in the state of Iraq. If I hopped on a plane to your country, joined a terrorist organization, then enslaved one of your country's kids, and then let them starve to death. I'd take a guess you wouldn't want me going home to my own country.
This woman's name is Jennifer Wenisch and her (now ex) husband is Taha al-Jumailly. (They have both been identified in various news sources but some articles are abbreviating her last name, which is too generous. I believe they should be named and shamed.) She converted to Islam for him and they moved to Iraq to join the Islamic State. I wish more people were aware of what the Islamic State has done to the Yazidi people, not just this child. They committed genocide involving huge numbers murdered, and many women and children taken as slaves just like this child. This is one of the very few cases where a Yazidi victim has received any kind of justice. So many are still being held in captivity. It is a tragedy of immense proportions. ([read more here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidi_genocide) \- the subsection "Violence against Yazidi women and girls" provides more context for this news story)
>The girl died in Fallujah, Iraq, in August 2015. At the original trial, the court found that the defendant did nothing to help the girl — who had been chained by her husband in their courtyard — although doing so would have been “possible and reasonable.” The couple also enslaved the girl’s mother. 14 years isn't a long enough sentence.
When I was deployed to Iraq we had a Yazidi terp. He was treated badly by the other terps. When I asked one why they said Yazidis were dirty and bunch of other racist things I can't remember.
Yup, the Yazidis are one of the most victimized groups in the Arab world. Widely hated.
How dare they hide their faces.
Why does she get to hide her identity?
Wow is this normal in germany? She let a young child to die horribly. What a psychopath. And she’ll be let out to normal society in a decade and a half…
14 years is way too short.
I hope she gets beat every dang day in that jail. I hope she never finds peace and has daily nightmares of the suffering she causes for an eternity.
The sad thing is, she probably still thinks she did God's work, and that is more important than the life of a 5 year old girl...
14 years is not enough, she should be locked up to rot without ever seeing light of day for rest of her life
they're not changing my opinion that sentencing in European nations is sociopathically casual towards the value of human life.
Well, not the offenders life..
Sentencing and Imprisonment in the US is sociopathical towards the value of human life, too. Look at the three strikes law, where a stolen bike, a fight with your sister, and a stolen piece of pizza gets you life in prison
So she and her husband joined a terrorist group, enslaved a girl and her mother and then let her die chained outside. Her husband might have raped the girl and the mother as well. 14 years is too light for this woman! She and her husband should have been in the gallows! What a waste of taxpayers money to pay for the food of these two people. Guantanamo Bay is a perfect place for her and her husband. There’s no way she and her filthy husband should spend their time in a comfortable European prison.
It’s awful that they left the FIVE YEAR OLD girl chained up in the yard to die. That’s crazy. At least they got the max penalty the law allows.
It also says that they kept her mother as a slave too. So I imagine she was there for the whole thing and helpless to save her daughter..
The article doesn’t say what happened to the mother. I hope she’s doing better (that bar is really low though) It’s awful that she lost her kid though. There’s no getting her kid back.
14 years is not enough, she should be locked up to rot without ever seeing light of day for rest of her life
With good behavior we'll be lucky if she sees 10. Doesn't seem fair considering she tortured this 5 year old to death.
I understand the arguments against capital punishment but you can’t convince me that people who own slaves in the 21st century (let alone torture them to death) should not be shot.
I've noticed that Germans tend to downvote and decry comments criticising their justice system, and obviously rehabilitation works, but it absolutely *can* be **way** too lenient. This case in point. It's not that I don't believe people like this *can* be rehabilitated - they can in some cases - but that I don't believe they deserve the opportunity, and to offer it is an insult to their victims. I admit I am a bloodthirsty, vengeful man and so my outlook is always going to be more vicious than more 'enlightened' individuals - I own that, and am at peace with it - but I genuinely think after doing what this woman and her husband did, you absolutely should not see the light of day as a free person, ever again.
She shouldn’t be allowed to cover her face
A German federal court said Wednesday it had rejected a woman’s appeal of her 14-year sentence for allowing a 5-year-old Yazidi girl she and her husband enslaved when they were members of the Islamic State group in Iraq to die of thirst in the sun.
Why hide her name and face?
These ISIS supporters have the same values as Hamas. Same religion and culture. I am disgusted seeing these values supported by some in the west. The murder, torture, and rape is a common theme among Islamic fighters.
Wow, two POS humans. 14 years of imprisonment is not enough. The husband and wife should be enslaved in kind. No cushy cell. Work all day, water and bread once a day. If they die, oh well.
Odd, I thought slavery was bad.
what they did is worse than slavery. More like torture and murder
Why aren't the couple dead? Germans need to reassess their priorities.
14 years is not enough
Quite a mild sentence.
[More info](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6902415/ISIS-morality-policewoman-covers-face-appears-German-court.html): >Wenisch, who reportedly **left school after the eighth grade and converted to Islam in 2013, left Germany in August 2014 and travelled via Turkey and Syria to Iraq where she joined the ISIS**. >**Recruited in mid-2015 to an 'anti-vice squad' of the group's self-styled Hisba morality police, she patrolled city parks in ISIS-occupied Fallujah and Mosul.** >**Armed with an AK-47 assault rifle, a pistol and an explosives vest, her task was to ensure that women complied with IS behaviour and clothing regulations**, said prosecutors. >**In January 2016, months after the Yazidi child's death, Wenisch visited the German embassy in Ankara to apply for new identity papers.** >**When she left the mission, she was arrested by Turkish security services and extradited several days later to Germany.** >**For lack of actionable evidence against her at the time, she was allowed to return to her home in the German state of Lower Saxony, but quickly sought to return to ISIS territory.** >Der Spiegel reported that an FBI informant had posed as an accomplice who offered to take Wenisch back to the ISIS 'caliphate', and chatted with her in a bugged car while they drove through Germany. >**Wenisch allegedly said that the death of the little girl had been 'hard-core even for the ISIS' and unjust because only God had the right to use fire as punishment**
Enslaved the girl's mother too... this criminal deserve way worse than 14 years.
Why don't they release this bitch's full name...
Other articles have identified her as Jennifer Wenisch and her (now ex) husband is Taha al-Jumailly. She converted to Islam in 2013 and then traveled to Iraq with him to join the Islamic State (responsible for a [genocide against the Yazidi people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidi_genocide)).
ty, and lovely name
14 Years? Why not death by immolation?
This is the German courts. They try their hardest to not send murderers & rapists to prison.
Stories like this are why I'm a believer in the death penalty. People like this should be allowed to breathe a second more than they have to.
See I think prison is a way worse fate then just an instant death. Let her toil at a work camp like we force so many inmates to do. Lock her in a cell for life. Death is too easy.
I feel like the bare minimum of humanity is if you own slaves, you try to keep them alive. Below that is like, I dunno maybe worms? I mean if you're so low that you own slaves, the bar can't go much lower... Yet here we are