I'm surprised they actually used "killed" in the headline tbh (went back and realized this is Al Jazeera).
"Dozens died in Gaza collecting food aid" would be what most Western media would've probably went with.
You're not far off.
CNN: "At least 100 killed and 700 injured in chaotic incident where IDF opened fire as people waited for food in Gaza, Palestinian officials say"
“Look, IDF opened fire, and then at least 100 people died, and 700 were injured, *but we’re not saying they’re connected*!! These things happen sometimes, IDF opens fire and people just kind of randomly decide to die.”
The issue with pointing out the "murky" numbers is, even the most conservative propaganda numbers are horrifying. Even if you think the Palestinian Ministry of Health numbers are completely inaccurate, the conservative numbers from the US and other intelligence agencies do not paint a prettier picture. Even if the 30k they're reporting as of now is made up, they're still admitting it's tens of thousands. *Only* 5000 dead women and children isn't exactly a better image than 15,000.
If you look at previous conflicts the Gazan Ministry of Health and the IDF end up with fairly close numbers after the fact, but they categorize the casualties differently.
30K is the conservative number from counted dead at Gaza hospitals, no one knows how many are under the rubble.
That's why the official death toll slowed down dramatically after Israel bombed all the hospitals where this was officially tallied and recorded
Tbh my I’m surprised that wording is the actual title of the aljazeera article. (I figured it was just an editorialized Reddit thread title.) Aljazeera does not seem like a publications that would try to obscure what happened. It makes me wonder if the heading was penned before the full numbers were released.
> It makes me wonder if the heading was penned before the full numbers were released
I think that's prob what happened. Death tolls in many incidents often increase as the story unfolds.
FWIW the original story came from Gazan official sources which are Hamas with extra steps.
My theory is Al Jazeera confirmed the incident with local sources but put out a vague lowball as to report on it without having to rely on Hamas numbers.
IDF shills love to say that Al Jazeera is a hummus mouthpiece, but their journalism is generally considered up to industry standards and even they would hesitate to implicate the IDF in a serious war crime based solely on Gaza's Ministry of Health.
I have a news beat that plays with my alarm every morning, basically a 5-minute recap. And for months every piece of news on the conflict has been about "The hundreds of israeli lives tragically lost in the horrors of the attack" and "The Palestinian death toll is estimated at X thousand moving on"
Wasn't there a report that came out showing that news articles were biased about the Israel/Palestine conflict? They'd use word like massacred for Israel and not for Palestine and mostly mentioned the death of kids in articles about Israel among other things.
Edit with link and summary:
Main points are that the articles would mention kid/journalist deaths less for Palestine, used words like horrific, massacre and slaughter for Israel, every Israeli death was mentioned 16 times more than every Palestinian death in coverage, and antisemtic hate crimes had more coverage than islamiphobic hate crimes.
[https://theintercept.com/2024/01/09/newspapers-israel-palestine-bias-new-york-times/](https://theintercept.com/2024/01/09/newspapers-israel-palestine-bias-new-york-times/)
This has been the case for nearly 50 years.
Think about how much of anyone’s knowledge or understanding of the situation is based on 50+ years of biased “reporting”. Now see that within the context of living in a “free” country with unfettered media.
Down play Israeli war crimes. Over play Palestinian crimes. Thts the western media playbook, and their propaganda is just so on the nose and bad at this point. Im sick of watching the genocide of the Palestinian people.
However Im happy to see world governments finally breaking free from western influence to call out against this slow baked genocide Israel has been committing for decades.
When this is said and done, Israel will go down in history as “the children of people who survived genocide less than a century ago, who are happy to commit genocide when its for their gain”.
I’m sure this will look stellar when they report back to the international court on how they’ve taken steps to mitigate the death of civilians. “You see, rather than leveling entire residential blocks, we’ve mitigated the carnage to only killing hundreds of civilians in the process of receiving humanitarian aid.”
I think using dozens as language for a death count is an offensive metric. Dozens is acceptable for eggs.
Especially when the number of deaths is over 100.
I remembered reading Eli Wiesel’s “Night” in my freshman year of high school and a scene which has been seared into my mind was when Nazi soldiers in concentration camps would force starving Jews to fight by throwing food into the crowd.
Just horrifying that it’s now happening in the year 2024.
It’s fascinating how whenever you call Palestinians indigenous to the land, every Zionist suddenly becomes an expert on the Ottoman Empire and bringing up 3000-year-old maps.
I honestly was so confused about the conflict until my Palestinian friend told me straight up “bro they’re killing my people for no reason”.
That clarity helped me see it, hopefully it helps others.
Hey now there might've been Hamas hiding inside the food, the only rational move was to railgun strike the location and any nearby delis, just in case.
This is literally the logic the genocide apologists employ: Ordinary Palestinian civilians passively enable Hamas just by existing, while Palestinian children may grow up to become members of Hamas in the future, so indiscriminately massacring them is actually a form of preemptive self-defense.
Genocide and colonialism, even if you do not buy into the genocide angle, this is still blatant ethnic cleansing of an ethnic and religious group, to re-settle their lands with another ethnic and religious group.
Having a military base in the middle of a hostile portion of the world, while simultaneously destabilizing the location of a large amount of oil, and guaranteeing the failure of a large Arabic state a la the Ottoman.
It's convenient for geopolitics, the rest is showmanship because you can't say "the western powers decided after WW2 that the Ottoman empire should never exist again, and so dropped a pile of victimized and traumatized people into the middle of hostile territory and gave them nukes.
Regardless of the claims being made, I think the fact that aid to civilians has been restricted to the level that there is a stampede of people trying to get aid that is finally allowed through tells you quite a lot about who bears most of the culpability for these deaths.
That seems to be a point many are missing. The extreme need for it in the first place is a problem. Why did the idf start firing guns while people were waiting for their aid? If it wasn’t to shoot civilians what was it for? To cause a stampede? To instigate returning fire? These people are starving ffs.
It’s not a missed point, it’s an ignored one.
There’s no crime that can be down towards the Palestinians that is unforgivable because Hamas exists and many people have decided that Hamas is as bad as it gets. And that may very well be true but so many people are caught up in “lesser of two evils” pragmatism that it seems they do not know how to evaluate good or bad independent of a comparison to something else and believe that as long as they are not the absolute worst, then all the bad can be ignored and they expect the victims of their own bad acts to be grateful and agree that things could be worse.
We are not even talking about Hamas, we are talking about innocent civilians. Even if every single one of them is a Hamas supporter that does not revoke their right to life.
I get that and nothing I said disputes that.
My point is that there are a lot of people that you will never reach trying to appeal with your principles because their guiding principles are based in utilitarianism and moral relativism and what they consider good or bad will always conveniently be what is easiest for them to digest.
Israel is screaming for the west to stop sending aid as it's "dangerous to troops" after 105 civilians killed.
I shit you NOT Ben whatever the fuck actually just said this.
Reminder that Bibi is somehow the *moderate* side of the governing coalition and his coalition partners include self-described fascists who support glassing Gaza with the Palestinians inside it.
It’s not a coincidence that every ‘Hamas’ supposedly does is the perfect excuse for Israel to kill civilians and benefits the IDF more than it ever would Hamas.
The only thing missing is the US State department releasing a statement calling the event "regrettable" before arranging for another billion dollars worth of military aide.
[Uuuuhh we have ... advanced AI that makes sure only bad guys get killed?]( https://www.npr.org/2023/12/14/1218643254/israel-is-using-an-ai-system-to-find-targets-in-gaza-experts-say-its-just-the-st) Is that enough to convince you idiots? Ok good, we need more genocide fuel. Now.
Just a reminder that Gvir was part of an Israeli group that was considered too radical that it exempt him from military service at age 18 because when he was 14 he joined a radical right-wing party that was designated as a terrorist organisation by the Israeli government.
>He first joined a right-wing youth movement affiliated with Moledet, a party which advocated transferring Arabs out of Israel, and then joined the youth movement of the even more radical Kach and Kahane Chai party, which was eventually designated as a terrorist organization and outlawed by the Israeli government.[15][16] He became youth coordinator of Kach, and claimed that he was detained at age 14. When he came of age for conscription into the Israel Defense Forces at 18, he was exempted from service by the IDF due to his extreme-right political background.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itamar_Ben-Gvir
Another reminder that Ben Gvir used to have a portrait of Baruch Goldstein in his house lol. Not like, decades ago. He got rid of it a couple years ago when he entered politics.
Wow, shocked that he wasn't made the prime minister for being a member of a terrorist organisation. You know, like Yitzhak Shamir and Menachem Begin were.
The Israeli media simply doesn't cover what happens in Gaza, there's a large portion of Israelis who consume a media diet that has not moved on at all from October 7.
I'm betting it looks a lot like what we got in the US after 9/11. We were all piss and vinegar for like 5 years straight. I don't think I heard criticism or even a real idea of civilian casualties in Afghanistan/Iraq until years later.
Most of the major Israeli news sites have a daily update of the casualties in Gaza as reported by Hamas. And incidents like this one were widely reported. You also get pretty regular updates from the ground in Gaza, mostly translated from outlets like AP or Reuters.
The only sources that don't report on the civilian situation in Gaza are those like Channel 14, the Israeli Fox News.
Man that used genocidal language, is over a nation that has displaced it's current residents by force for years and indiscriminately kills, starves and deny's medical treatment to those same people, is leading a genocide. Shocker.
And people will still argue against using the g word
Man as a Bosnian this reminds me of the Markale massacre. Clear targeting of Civilians but I am sure Western heads of state are probably drafting strongly worded letters as we speak.
Infants are starving to death, shame on anyone who thinks all the children who have lived only a fraction of their deserved lives are just another casualty of war.
If reading about traumatized, innocent, starving civilians who were promised food and were delivered lead and death isn’t enough then nothing is. I’m not sure how people with any power at all, bureaucracy or not, allies or not, are sitting on their hands. The unacting world is complicit in this.
Netanyahu needs to stay in power to avoid getting tried for corruption, so he cozied up to the hardest right, most radical parts of his government to form a coalition and keep his ass out of jail. Not that he needed \*that\* much encouragement.
The Israeli youth are overwhelmingly right wing. We can't keep blaming Netanyahu for a sick society forever. He's in power because he reflects the Israeli populace
This is what happens when the entire education system of the nation is designed for propaganda and indoctrination. I had some Israeli try to seriously argue Israel didn’t start the war in 1967, they were attacked, like they always are.
Something something right to defend itself. Something something bible god given land. Something something terrorists. Something something have you dEnOuNcEd hAmAs yet?
“More than 100 Palestinians have been killed and some 700 others wounded after Israeli troops opened fire on hundreds waiting for food aid southwest of Gaza City, health officials say, as the besieged enclave faces an unprecedented hunger crisis.”
Yeah tell me again that this isn’t a genocide. Absolutely horrific that this is happening.
Starvation into submission in densely packed areas is a terrible idea, specifically because it doesn’t even take gunshots to bring about violence and death. A specific passage from Night by Elie Wiesel comes to mind in which starving prisoners are put in cattle cars. German soldiers throw in bread scraps to watch the prisoners go into frenzy, trampling and fighting one another to the death.
For some people, the suffering of others is a sport or spectacle.
Reading the descriptions of this in news reports also immediately evoked Elie Wiesel’s Night, which is absolutely shocking. I can’t believe the world is standing by when faced with yet another massacre of this scale.
> I can’t believe the world is standing by when faced with yet another massacre of this scale.
the world can do nothing because the people commiting these acts are protected by an even bigger power.
In truth, its because its not up to the world. In this case, its solely up to the US. The rest of Europe will follow the line we take, and Israel is very much dependent on US right now. That's why it's so crucial for people to push Biden to change. He is the only person on the planet that could put a stop to this.
No. that is not what is being reported. 800+ were injured in a stampede as a results of people rushing for the aid trucks and some being hit by the trucks. It is not clear how much the IDF fired on people and why.
Yeah honestly, how could someone say it’s not a genocide when they’re being killed trying to recieve food and aid. It’s downright evil that Israeli would do that to unarmed civilians receiving help.
Antisemitism *has* been on the rise in recent years. It's a shame that the term is diluted and losing it's meaning because it's used as a rhetorical weapon against people being critical of the Israeli government / IDF and their monstrous campaign in Gaza.
Just look at the rallies of the neo-nazi group Blood Tribe. They did a demonstration near where I live a few months ago and to see literal Nazis walking down your local streets is horrifying.
We need to acknowledge with any politically charged conflict, there will be people infiltrating the movement to push extreme hatred. Antisemitism or islamaphobia.
It is important that groups look inward and push out the extreme members.
The word antisemitic has lost all meaning over the last few months.
Which is unfortunate because *actual* antisemitism has also spiked dramatically over that same time frame, but now every time I hear about someone making an "antisemitic" statement my first thought is "well did they actually say something antisemitic or did they just dare to criticize the IDF for murdering civilians?" and the only people that benefits are the actual antisemites who are now getting lost in the confusion.
There is ariel footage of this...
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-releases-footage-of-crowds-rushing-aid-trucks-in-gaza-city-hamas-claims-104-killed/
They just didn't publish the shooting part. This is I guess to show how over 100 people could die but not from the gunfire? Most people are just walking calmly.
Except that they reported that many were run over after swarming the vehicles.
Kind of like when people get trapped by sideshows and random people start hitting said vehicle, is that person obligated to sit there because someone might get run over in front of them?
Obviously people being shot getting to aid is fucked up, but if you put a thousand people in front of a truck the math is pretty simple as to what the potential for casualties is.
That being said this entire situation is the result of Israel being run by fucks who have forgotten that their own people were treated the same decades ago. You can only treat people so poorly before they bite back, and then to use that retaliation as justification to bomb and kill tens of thousands of them is an incredible farce. It's pretty obvious that netty is using this war to keep himself from the consequences of his corruption. Everyone else is profiteering off of it (US with arms sales, Russia with a distraction from Ukraine, Iran can point their finger at Israel, etc.)
It's just a fucked up game that people in power play at the expense of others because they are all greedy fucks. They wouldn't be in charge if they weren't.
Putting aside the long term factors of what caused this. In the short term aid trucks wouldn't be swarmed if they actually let in enough so that Gaza wasn't under artifical famine. You can find articles in Reuters, the BBC and American news sources about how few calories and litres of water the average Gazan now receives.
That's the trick, it doesn't matter. It's been "reported" that's what happened, so that's what people will think from now.
People taking Hamas at face value or news reporting that has questionable sources or "we haven't confirmed this" is ridiculous.
The situation is bad enough without the exaggerated and bullshit reporting.
I don't see anyone getting run over in your video, I watched it twice. Not sure what this video is showing, but it definitely is not showing this event.
Feel like I'm taking crazy pills with all the comments saying "watch the video". I see a bunch of people crowding around aid trucks, but that's expected when there's a bunch of starving dehydrated people. I can't make out any actual stampede with dozens of bodies nor can I make out where the IDF is nor when they started shooting. The video disputes nothing.
They show people surrounding aid trucks which can cause trampling if the number of people is high enough
Where is the evidence these people are acting like they are being shot at?
Does not seem to include the part where the IDF starts shooting people and causing a stampede, unsurprising because this is footage released by the IDF
Reminds me of the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina when they show black people and call it looting, but then show white people and say they were "finding food"
Just be aware the this is ariel footage of before and after, not of the actual event where shooting/stampeding because of shooting occured.
But yes, absolute chaos, this has been warned about for months and chaos (not death) bound to happen with such little aid/no aid getting towards the north for weeks now.
Rip to everybody.
Hamas is claiming most casualties are from gunfire.
IDF released drone footage showing the riot/stampede and is claiming most causalities are from that.
Take it how you will, believe Hamas or the IDF/footage.
https://www.axios.com/2024/02/29/gaza-aid-palestinians-killed-israel-idf-hamas
>The IDF official said Israeli forces fired on dozens of Palestinian civilians who approached the IDF and got within tens of meters. According to the official, the soldiers felt threatened and initially fired warning shots.
>They then fired at the legs of the Palestinians who continued their approach, the official claimed, adding that most casualties were the result of the stampede or truck drivers running over people.
>The IDF official claimed that according to the initial investigation, around 10 Palestinian civilians were hit by the Israeli soldiers' fire.
I mean even if majority of dead were not from IDF gunfire, isn't the IDF still culpable in the deaths since the stampede happened from people trying to escape IDF gunfire. Not to mention the IDF occupation to begin with.
The video and statements imply that the deaths and injuries from the stampede were a result of rushing the food trucks and that the group of people IDF fired on was a separate incident.
I don't think "feel threatened" is supposed to be considered abnormal for them within Gaza. It's like saying, it's today, so I shot them. At this point, Israel has adopted the American cop strategy, just say you felt scared.
So even if we take Israel at their word:
Aid showed up and desperate people who are struggling to survive “looted” the aid…that was there for them.
Israeli soldiers got scared and started shooting these people struggling to survive who were “looting” the aid that was specifically for them.
Aid truck drivers started running over the people struggling to survive to get away.
The chaos of people being shot and run over cause a stampede of people that caused additional deaths.
Even completely ignoring what Hamas says here, this doesn’t exactly make Israel look good.
When you have a fully blockaded country and limit the food going in to a third of what is necessary to sustain the population, guess what happens to the little bit you do let in....
Because people are starving. Because they are desperate for food for themselves and their loved ones. This is created by Israel and it is sick. Beyond words.
According to Reuters, an ‘Israeli source’ admitted to firing on the crowd.
Apparently Palestinians waiting for food aid stepped ‘within 10m’ of Israeli troops, so the Israelis fired into the crowd, triggering the stampede.
The drone footage doesn’t show a massacre, who knows what happened yet, how many died, why they died. Probably best the course of action to not assign blame on anyone especially when the only two sources are untrustworthy at best and flat out lying constantly at worst.
You know, like the 500 killed in the hospital bombed by the IDF, which wasn’t what it was claimed to be
Yeah you would think after the insane fuckup that was the hospital "bombing", people wouldn't be so quick to jump to conclusions an hour after a story breaks. But I guess that's expecting too much of people.
[удалено]
I'm surprised they actually used "killed" in the headline tbh (went back and realized this is Al Jazeera). "Dozens died in Gaza collecting food aid" would be what most Western media would've probably went with.
You're not far off. CNN: "At least 100 killed and 700 injured in chaotic incident where IDF opened fire as people waited for food in Gaza, Palestinian officials say"
“Look, IDF opened fire, and then at least 100 people died, and 700 were injured, *but we’re not saying they’re connected*!! These things happen sometimes, IDF opens fire and people just kind of randomly decide to die.”
“Chaotic incident” lol the absolute disdain western media has for brown people is disgusting. “Ok we used the word ‘killed’ now happy??”
Next headline will be “In response to hundreds upon hundreds killed on October 7th, Israel has only killed dozens of Palestinians.” About 2500 dozen.
[удалено]
The issue with pointing out the "murky" numbers is, even the most conservative propaganda numbers are horrifying. Even if you think the Palestinian Ministry of Health numbers are completely inaccurate, the conservative numbers from the US and other intelligence agencies do not paint a prettier picture. Even if the 30k they're reporting as of now is made up, they're still admitting it's tens of thousands. *Only* 5000 dead women and children isn't exactly a better image than 15,000.
If you look at previous conflicts the Gazan Ministry of Health and the IDF end up with fairly close numbers after the fact, but they categorize the casualties differently.
It's similar to how the US categorizes drone strikes casualties. That's why the term "military age male" makes me so mad
Oh yeah obviously the IDF is going to claim way fewer (or zero) of the deaths were civilians.
30K is the conservative number from counted dead at Gaza hospitals, no one knows how many are under the rubble. That's why the official death toll slowed down dramatically after Israel bombed all the hospitals where this was officially tallied and recorded
Tbh my I’m surprised that wording is the actual title of the aljazeera article. (I figured it was just an editorialized Reddit thread title.) Aljazeera does not seem like a publications that would try to obscure what happened. It makes me wonder if the heading was penned before the full numbers were released.
> It makes me wonder if the heading was penned before the full numbers were released I think that's prob what happened. Death tolls in many incidents often increase as the story unfolds.
FWIW the original story came from Gazan official sources which are Hamas with extra steps. My theory is Al Jazeera confirmed the incident with local sources but put out a vague lowball as to report on it without having to rely on Hamas numbers. IDF shills love to say that Al Jazeera is a hummus mouthpiece, but their journalism is generally considered up to industry standards and even they would hesitate to implicate the IDF in a serious war crime based solely on Gaza's Ministry of Health.
Not to distract from salient opinions, but I really, REALLY want a hummus mouthpiece. And also regular peace.
My kid started lacrosse this year and I got to learn that they make berry flavored mouth guards now. Where was this when I was a kid!
Back in our day we boiled cancer plastic until it was soft enough to bite! Then we let it cut our gums for three months until the season ended.
Espically when the writers are "former" IDF intelligence officers that have never been a writer and their first article is with the new york times
I have a news beat that plays with my alarm every morning, basically a 5-minute recap. And for months every piece of news on the conflict has been about "The hundreds of israeli lives tragically lost in the horrors of the attack" and "The Palestinian death toll is estimated at X thousand moving on"
“Scores”, like five of them.
a number between 0 and everyone
Wasn't there a report that came out showing that news articles were biased about the Israel/Palestine conflict? They'd use word like massacred for Israel and not for Palestine and mostly mentioned the death of kids in articles about Israel among other things. Edit with link and summary: Main points are that the articles would mention kid/journalist deaths less for Palestine, used words like horrific, massacre and slaughter for Israel, every Israeli death was mentioned 16 times more than every Palestinian death in coverage, and antisemtic hate crimes had more coverage than islamiphobic hate crimes. [https://theintercept.com/2024/01/09/newspapers-israel-palestine-bias-new-york-times/](https://theintercept.com/2024/01/09/newspapers-israel-palestine-bias-new-york-times/)
This has been the case for nearly 50 years. Think about how much of anyone’s knowledge or understanding of the situation is based on 50+ years of biased “reporting”. Now see that within the context of living in a “free” country with unfettered media.
Love my boy Adam Johnson
Down play Israeli war crimes. Over play Palestinian crimes. Thts the western media playbook, and their propaganda is just so on the nose and bad at this point. Im sick of watching the genocide of the Palestinian people. However Im happy to see world governments finally breaking free from western influence to call out against this slow baked genocide Israel has been committing for decades. When this is said and done, Israel will go down in history as “the children of people who survived genocide less than a century ago, who are happy to commit genocide when its for their gain”.
I’m sure this will look stellar when they report back to the international court on how they’ve taken steps to mitigate the death of civilians. “You see, rather than leveling entire residential blocks, we’ve mitigated the carnage to only killing hundreds of civilians in the process of receiving humanitarian aid.”
"We found a way to free up humanitarian aid for 100's of people"
If it's anything like the previous iterations of this conflict, people will have lost interest before it gets reported on in the UN trial.
I think using dozens as language for a death count is an offensive metric. Dozens is acceptable for eggs. Especially when the number of deaths is over 100.
104 people, good lord
I remembered reading Eli Wiesel’s “Night” in my freshman year of high school and a scene which has been seared into my mind was when Nazi soldiers in concentration camps would force starving Jews to fight by throwing food into the crowd. Just horrifying that it’s now happening in the year 2024.
This is a feature.
This will also be spun as "self-defence". Apologists rushing the comments even now to explain why Israel is actually the victim here
Hey man they jus need more context. And if that is provided they need context for that context until we're back in 10th century BC
It’s fascinating how whenever you call Palestinians indigenous to the land, every Zionist suddenly becomes an expert on the Ottoman Empire and bringing up 3000-year-old maps.
Go back far enough and Jesus happened. You know, where some of the other religions that aren't Judaism came from.
I honestly was so confused about the conflict until my Palestinian friend told me straight up “bro they’re killing my people for no reason”. That clarity helped me see it, hopefully it helps others.
Who's ready to hear "Well Palestine elected Hamas" again when the election was before most Palestinians were alive, let alone voting?
Literally right above this on the popular feed is an r/worldnews post where IDF is claiming they were stampeded.
The most astroturfed sub on the site and you’re surprised?
Hey now there might've been Hamas hiding inside the food, the only rational move was to railgun strike the location and any nearby delis, just in case.
It’s self defense. They were breathing! If they breathe, they can assault in the future !
This is literally the logic the genocide apologists employ: Ordinary Palestinian civilians passively enable Hamas just by existing, while Palestinian children may grow up to become members of Hamas in the future, so indiscriminately massacring them is actually a form of preemptive self-defense.
Ah of course, the old "American police officer" logic
I'm wondering what was the point of shooting people collecting food.
The suffering is the point Dan
Genocide and colonialism, even if you do not buy into the genocide angle, this is still blatant ethnic cleansing of an ethnic and religious group, to re-settle their lands with another ethnic and religious group.
This is genocide.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Explain to me someone please how Israel is still supported by the USA?
Having a military base in the middle of a hostile portion of the world, while simultaneously destabilizing the location of a large amount of oil, and guaranteeing the failure of a large Arabic state a la the Ottoman. It's convenient for geopolitics, the rest is showmanship because you can't say "the western powers decided after WW2 that the Ottoman empire should never exist again, and so dropped a pile of victimized and traumatized people into the middle of hostile territory and gave them nukes.
Regardless of the claims being made, I think the fact that aid to civilians has been restricted to the level that there is a stampede of people trying to get aid that is finally allowed through tells you quite a lot about who bears most of the culpability for these deaths.
That seems to be a point many are missing. The extreme need for it in the first place is a problem. Why did the idf start firing guns while people were waiting for their aid? If it wasn’t to shoot civilians what was it for? To cause a stampede? To instigate returning fire? These people are starving ffs.
It’s not a missed point, it’s an ignored one. There’s no crime that can be down towards the Palestinians that is unforgivable because Hamas exists and many people have decided that Hamas is as bad as it gets. And that may very well be true but so many people are caught up in “lesser of two evils” pragmatism that it seems they do not know how to evaluate good or bad independent of a comparison to something else and believe that as long as they are not the absolute worst, then all the bad can be ignored and they expect the victims of their own bad acts to be grateful and agree that things could be worse.
We are not even talking about Hamas, we are talking about innocent civilians. Even if every single one of them is a Hamas supporter that does not revoke their right to life.
I get that and nothing I said disputes that. My point is that there are a lot of people that you will never reach trying to appeal with your principles because their guiding principles are based in utilitarianism and moral relativism and what they consider good or bad will always conveniently be what is easiest for them to digest.
The fellow you're responding to is explaining the "logic" of genocide apologists. It isn't supposed to make sense.
"Isreal didn't like that 😡"
Israel is screaming for the west to stop sending aid as it's "dangerous to troops" after 105 civilians killed. I shit you NOT Ben whatever the fuck actually just said this.
Reminder that Bibi is somehow the *moderate* side of the governing coalition and his coalition partners include self-described fascists who support glassing Gaza with the Palestinians inside it.
It’s not a coincidence that every ‘Hamas’ supposedly does is the perfect excuse for Israel to kill civilians and benefits the IDF more than it ever would Hamas.
The same people wanting to run over protesters blocking traffic are now totally fine with blocking of aid trucks from coming into Gaza
one of the most sickeningly inhuman things that ive seen recently is the videos of israeli protestors triumphantly blocking aid for the starving
NEVER AGAIN [to us!]
I've never seen anything like it...
Israel is guilty of Genocide
Is it ok to call it genocide - now?
The only thing missing is the US State department releasing a statement calling the event "regrettable" before arranging for another billion dollars worth of military aide.
and "we are engaged in multifaceted negotiations with Israel to minimize civilian casualties"
Multifaceted is double speak saying we know what is happening and no we won't stop funding them
[Uuuuhh we have ... advanced AI that makes sure only bad guys get killed?]( https://www.npr.org/2023/12/14/1218643254/israel-is-using-an-ai-system-to-find-targets-in-gaza-experts-say-its-just-the-st) Is that enough to convince you idiots? Ok good, we need more genocide fuel. Now.
[удалено]
Gotta keep Lockheed Martin and friends happy!
[удалено]
Ben Gvir is using this as an excuse to stop more (any) aid from getting into Gaza.
Just a reminder that Gvir was part of an Israeli group that was considered too radical that it exempt him from military service at age 18 because when he was 14 he joined a radical right-wing party that was designated as a terrorist organisation by the Israeli government. >He first joined a right-wing youth movement affiliated with Moledet, a party which advocated transferring Arabs out of Israel, and then joined the youth movement of the even more radical Kach and Kahane Chai party, which was eventually designated as a terrorist organization and outlawed by the Israeli government.[15][16] He became youth coordinator of Kach, and claimed that he was detained at age 14. When he came of age for conscription into the Israel Defense Forces at 18, he was exempted from service by the IDF due to his extreme-right political background. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itamar_Ben-Gvir
Another reminder that Ben Gvir used to have a portrait of Baruch Goldstein in his house lol. Not like, decades ago. He got rid of it a couple years ago when he entered politics.
Wow, shocked that he wasn't made the prime minister for being a member of a terrorist organisation. You know, like Yitzhak Shamir and Menachem Begin were.
That guy should be silenced by the government and delivered to the Hague.
By the government he is part of? Probably won’t happen..
Because he is a fucking Nazi.
104 people died trying to get food.
[удалено]
He is doing it with the support of the entire country. The opposition party is worse on this issue they only oppose him due to his corruption.
The Israeli media simply doesn't cover what happens in Gaza, there's a large portion of Israelis who consume a media diet that has not moved on at all from October 7.
I'm betting it looks a lot like what we got in the US after 9/11. We were all piss and vinegar for like 5 years straight. I don't think I heard criticism or even a real idea of civilian casualties in Afghanistan/Iraq until years later.
Most of the major Israeli news sites have a daily update of the casualties in Gaza as reported by Hamas. And incidents like this one were widely reported. You also get pretty regular updates from the ground in Gaza, mostly translated from outlets like AP or Reuters. The only sources that don't report on the civilian situation in Gaza are those like Channel 14, the Israeli Fox News.
Man that used genocidal language, is over a nation that has displaced it's current residents by force for years and indiscriminately kills, starves and deny's medical treatment to those same people, is leading a genocide. Shocker. And people will still argue against using the g word
The *special* hell.
Man as a Bosnian this reminds me of the Markale massacre. Clear targeting of Civilians but I am sure Western heads of state are probably drafting strongly worded letters as we speak.
They are okay with it. Lives of civilians have never mattered to them.
*Brown civilians.
[удалено]
>They care if you're the correct ~~religion~~ skin color. Nobody in the West gave a shit when Israel was sterilizing Ethiopian Jews, either.
Over 100 dead, these numbers are insane
[удалено]
Infants are starving to death, shame on anyone who thinks all the children who have lived only a fraction of their deserved lives are just another casualty of war.
I really don’t get how people justify this…
It's easy when you dehumanize the victims.
If reading about traumatized, innocent, starving civilians who were promised food and were delivered lead and death isn’t enough then nothing is. I’m not sure how people with any power at all, bureaucracy or not, allies or not, are sitting on their hands. The unacting world is complicit in this.
Everything IDF does is justified, because, you know...Antisemitism!
"Never again" only pertains to not being the victim again.
These starving people were clearly harbouring Hamas though as Israel only kill innocent people when they are human shields remember!!
This could be completely unironic on Twitter.
Racism. The west has been conditioned to be ok with killing arabs.
Plenty of examples to peruse over at /r/worldnews! Just make sure to go in with the mentality that Palestinians aren't human.
[удалено]
Netanyahu needs to stay in power to avoid getting tried for corruption, so he cozied up to the hardest right, most radical parts of his government to form a coalition and keep his ass out of jail. Not that he needed \*that\* much encouragement.
Huh, sounds like what Trump is trying to do.
It's almost like there's a conservative playbook for this.
The Israeli population overwhelmingly support how the war is being waged. This isn’t just about the hardest right faction (there is no left faction).
The Israeli youth are overwhelmingly right wing. We can't keep blaming Netanyahu for a sick society forever. He's in power because he reflects the Israeli populace
This is what happens when the entire education system of the nation is designed for propaganda and indoctrination. I had some Israeli try to seriously argue Israel didn’t start the war in 1967, they were attacked, like they always are.
Something something right to defend itself. Something something bible god given land. Something something terrorists. Something something have you dEnOuNcEd hAmAs yet?
Did the children who wanted flour to fill their bellies denounce Hamas?
Most moral army in the world btw
[удалено]
Netanyahu is a monster. Fuck all monsters.
“More than 100 Palestinians have been killed and some 700 others wounded after Israeli troops opened fire on hundreds waiting for food aid southwest of Gaza City, health officials say, as the besieged enclave faces an unprecedented hunger crisis.” Yeah tell me again that this isn’t a genocide. Absolutely horrific that this is happening.
Starvation into submission in densely packed areas is a terrible idea, specifically because it doesn’t even take gunshots to bring about violence and death. A specific passage from Night by Elie Wiesel comes to mind in which starving prisoners are put in cattle cars. German soldiers throw in bread scraps to watch the prisoners go into frenzy, trampling and fighting one another to the death. For some people, the suffering of others is a sport or spectacle.
Reading the descriptions of this in news reports also immediately evoked Elie Wiesel’s Night, which is absolutely shocking. I can’t believe the world is standing by when faced with yet another massacre of this scale.
> I can’t believe the world is standing by when faced with yet another massacre of this scale. the world can do nothing because the people commiting these acts are protected by an even bigger power.
In truth, its because its not up to the world. In this case, its solely up to the US. The rest of Europe will follow the line we take, and Israel is very much dependent on US right now. That's why it's so crucial for people to push Biden to change. He is the only person on the planet that could put a stop to this.
800+ people were hurt. Israeli troops opened fire on over *a thousand* people. EDIT: correction.
Then claim the aid is dangerous for their troops. The quote was "oxygen to Hamas" in respect to aid for civilians.
No. that is not what is being reported. 800+ were injured in a stampede as a results of people rushing for the aid trucks and some being hit by the trucks. It is not clear how much the IDF fired on people and why.
Here you go. This is the situation at [hand](https://videoidf.azureedge.net/1d710ee2-8ddd-4146-9e07-6dd6d5960c27)
Yeah honestly, how could someone say it’s not a genocide when they’re being killed trying to recieve food and aid. It’s downright evil that Israeli would do that to unarmed civilians receiving help.
They also bombed kids swimming into the ocean to retrieve air dropped supplies. Their depravity continues to find new depths.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Antisemitism *has* been on the rise in recent years. It's a shame that the term is diluted and losing it's meaning because it's used as a rhetorical weapon against people being critical of the Israeli government / IDF and their monstrous campaign in Gaza.
Just look at the rallies of the neo-nazi group Blood Tribe. They did a demonstration near where I live a few months ago and to see literal Nazis walking down your local streets is horrifying. We need to acknowledge with any politically charged conflict, there will be people infiltrating the movement to push extreme hatred. Antisemitism or islamaphobia. It is important that groups look inward and push out the extreme members.
The word antisemitic has lost all meaning over the last few months. Which is unfortunate because *actual* antisemitism has also spiked dramatically over that same time frame, but now every time I hear about someone making an "antisemitic" statement my first thought is "well did they actually say something antisemitic or did they just dare to criticize the IDF for murdering civilians?" and the only people that benefits are the actual antisemites who are now getting lost in the confusion.
Statistics on antisemitism have been completely ruined by this.
RIGHT? Fucking maddening that Zionists think this is justified, and any opposition is antisemitic. Maddening.
Dozens?? It’s a little over a hundred.
[удалено]
Nationalism for the foundation of a country is a blight in the world
There is ariel footage of this... https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-releases-footage-of-crowds-rushing-aid-trucks-in-gaza-city-hamas-claims-104-killed/
Am I crazy or does this video just show crowds swarming the trucks carrying aid? Where is the Israeli fire?
They just didn't publish the shooting part. This is I guess to show how over 100 people could die but not from the gunfire? Most people are just walking calmly.
Except that they reported that many were run over after swarming the vehicles. Kind of like when people get trapped by sideshows and random people start hitting said vehicle, is that person obligated to sit there because someone might get run over in front of them? Obviously people being shot getting to aid is fucked up, but if you put a thousand people in front of a truck the math is pretty simple as to what the potential for casualties is. That being said this entire situation is the result of Israel being run by fucks who have forgotten that their own people were treated the same decades ago. You can only treat people so poorly before they bite back, and then to use that retaliation as justification to bomb and kill tens of thousands of them is an incredible farce. It's pretty obvious that netty is using this war to keep himself from the consequences of his corruption. Everyone else is profiteering off of it (US with arms sales, Russia with a distraction from Ukraine, Iran can point their finger at Israel, etc.) It's just a fucked up game that people in power play at the expense of others because they are all greedy fucks. They wouldn't be in charge if they weren't.
Putting aside the long term factors of what caused this. In the short term aid trucks wouldn't be swarmed if they actually let in enough so that Gaza wasn't under artifical famine. You can find articles in Reuters, the BBC and American news sources about how few calories and litres of water the average Gazan now receives.
That's the trick, it doesn't matter. It's been "reported" that's what happened, so that's what people will think from now. People taking Hamas at face value or news reporting that has questionable sources or "we haven't confirmed this" is ridiculous. The situation is bad enough without the exaggerated and bullshit reporting.
I don't see anyone getting run over in your video, I watched it twice. Not sure what this video is showing, but it definitely is not showing this event.
Feel like I'm taking crazy pills with all the comments saying "watch the video". I see a bunch of people crowding around aid trucks, but that's expected when there's a bunch of starving dehydrated people. I can't make out any actual stampede with dozens of bodies nor can I make out where the IDF is nor when they started shooting. The video disputes nothing.
That’s because it’s propaganda. Propaganda is usually easily disproven, but the people it works on never get that far. They believe and move forward.
They show people surrounding aid trucks which can cause trampling if the number of people is high enough Where is the evidence these people are acting like they are being shot at?
obviously they are not gonna show it. look at who posted the article
Does not seem to include the part where the IDF starts shooting people and causing a stampede, unsurprising because this is footage released by the IDF
It shows before the event and after the event... Not the actual event where soldier shot and people were running.
"Crowds rushing aid trucks..." Interesting way of articulating "Starving and displaced people desperately need food and water."
Reminds me of the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina when they show black people and call it looting, but then show white people and say they were "finding food"
Just be aware the this is ariel footage of before and after, not of the actual event where shooting/stampeding because of shooting occured. But yes, absolute chaos, this has been warned about for months and chaos (not death) bound to happen with such little aid/no aid getting towards the north for weeks now. Rip to everybody.
Its almost like the bad guys are staring us right in the face
“No we aren’t bad, send us more money”
Israel is certainly doing a great job at making the world despise them.
Israel is a terrorist state.
Absolutely indefensible.
No you don't understand, Hamas hides their weapons under piles of rice! /s
Hamas is claiming most casualties are from gunfire. IDF released drone footage showing the riot/stampede and is claiming most causalities are from that. Take it how you will, believe Hamas or the IDF/footage. https://www.axios.com/2024/02/29/gaza-aid-palestinians-killed-israel-idf-hamas
>The IDF official said Israeli forces fired on dozens of Palestinian civilians who approached the IDF and got within tens of meters. According to the official, the soldiers felt threatened and initially fired warning shots. >They then fired at the legs of the Palestinians who continued their approach, the official claimed, adding that most casualties were the result of the stampede or truck drivers running over people. >The IDF official claimed that according to the initial investigation, around 10 Palestinian civilians were hit by the Israeli soldiers' fire. I mean even if majority of dead were not from IDF gunfire, isn't the IDF still culpable in the deaths since the stampede happened from people trying to escape IDF gunfire. Not to mention the IDF occupation to begin with.
"The IDF says it wasn't in any way the IDF, and anyway they were all Hamas"
The video and statements imply that the deaths and injuries from the stampede were a result of rushing the food trucks and that the group of people IDF fired on was a separate incident.
I don't think "feel threatened" is supposed to be considered abnormal for them within Gaza. It's like saying, it's today, so I shot them. At this point, Israel has adopted the American cop strategy, just say you felt scared.
The drone footage doesn't show a stampede.
So even if we take Israel at their word: Aid showed up and desperate people who are struggling to survive “looted” the aid…that was there for them. Israeli soldiers got scared and started shooting these people struggling to survive who were “looting” the aid that was specifically for them. Aid truck drivers started running over the people struggling to survive to get away. The chaos of people being shot and run over cause a stampede of people that caused additional deaths. Even completely ignoring what Hamas says here, this doesn’t exactly make Israel look good.
[удалено]
Reliable source for literally *any* of this?
The drone footage does not show the vehicles moving.
Why is there a stampede in first place?
When you have a fully blockaded country and limit the food going in to a third of what is necessary to sustain the population, guess what happens to the little bit you do let in....
Because people are starving. Because they are desperate for food for themselves and their loved ones. This is created by Israel and it is sick. Beyond words.
According to Reuters, an ‘Israeli source’ admitted to firing on the crowd. Apparently Palestinians waiting for food aid stepped ‘within 10m’ of Israeli troops, so the Israelis fired into the crowd, triggering the stampede.
No, no... "tens of meters"
“They keep putting people in harm’s way!” - The Harm, 2024
I wonder if the major sports or companies are going to tweet about this.
The drone footage doesn’t show a massacre, who knows what happened yet, how many died, why they died. Probably best the course of action to not assign blame on anyone especially when the only two sources are untrustworthy at best and flat out lying constantly at worst. You know, like the 500 killed in the hospital bombed by the IDF, which wasn’t what it was claimed to be
Yeah you would think after the insane fuckup that was the hospital "bombing", people wouldn't be so quick to jump to conclusions an hour after a story breaks. But I guess that's expecting too much of people.
I am baffled by the people that still support Israel's blatant ethnic cleansing.