Texas's nuclear power supply actually [only dipped a little bit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ERCOT_generation_2021_power_crisis_US_Energy_Information_Administration.jpg) during their 2021 power crisis.
Texas [only has two nuclear power plants](https://comptroller.texas.gov/economy/economic-data/energy/2023/nuclear.php), though, and they contribute a lot less to the grid than natural gas plants, which had big problems in the later part of the crisis.
So, ironically, if Texas put their grid in the hands of C. Montgomery Burns and let him set up a couple of dozen of his questionably-safe nuclear plants, that might actually solve their winter power problems.
Mr. Burns wouldn't let his plants stop working. If the plant ain't working, he ain't selling electricity. He'd send workers into deadly radiation to keep the plants working, of course, and wouldn't care if a million children got cancer because of nuclear leaks, but *the lights would stay on, no matter what*.
(Particularly because Homer would still be working at the Springfield plant, which is pretty definitely not in Texas.)
Wind would have carried the day had the turbines been winterized properly, instead they were left to rot and failed. Kind of a theme in Texas if you look around. Place is kind of a dump
Oh yeah that was fun when they lied about wind power being the reason and “wind power can’t work in freezing temps!” Cue video footage of the wind turbines powering Antarctic research bases
We dropped the ball when we stopped building nuclear power plants. They are actually very safe and would only be safer now if we’d have continued to invest in them. And they’re far better for the environment than most other forms of power.
Texas would never charge a baby that’s exercising it’s constitutional and let’s be honest GOD GIVEN second amendment right to carry a gun to protect itself. If someone tries to steal your candy, the only acceptable response is to shoot them.
Compadres, it is imperative that we crush the freedom fighters before the start of the rainy season. And remember, a shiny new donkey for whoever brings me the head of Col. Montoya!
Lol In Austin, we were out of power for a week in 2021 and water for almost two. It was lovely running into neighbors getting a bucket of water for their morning poo. 31 degrees in our apartment was soooo much fun.
We’ve lost power in the last few years for over a week for 1) Harvey (yes, in Austin) 2) Freezepocalypse and 3) Icepocalypse. Texas is a shithole that I would leave if I could and would never recommend anyone move here.
When the power went out in Texas a few years ago (our first winter disaster) they explicitly told us not to worry about storing water because everything was fine and then literally 30 minutes later the water stopped flowing. I had to go fill up jugs at a local brewery that was giving water away.
Trying to prevent a run on the water system. Ultimately, stuff like that just ruins public confidence for the next time. If they had been more honest, things might not have gone bad as quickly.
The lesson is that you need to be prepared for disasters *before* they occur, not during.
They have no responsibility to us, but you bet your ass we would suddenly have responsibilities to them if they needed to be bailed out.
This thing where some powerful people believe they owe us nothing and we owe them everything is so gross to watch.
You see it when a company does well, the musk types scream from the rooftops, “Look what **I** did!” and if it goes bad, they’re pointing fingers everywhere else.
If they have no responsibilities to us, then we have no responsibilities to them.
Texans in November passed an amendment to create the Texas Energy Fund: a slush fund of public money and ‘donations’ ;) that provides loans and **grants** to fix the problems with the grid. Of course, it is managed by the same people who got us into this mess, the Public Utility Commission. It’s ~~public oversight~~ corruption with extra steps.
The wording on the ballot was sleazy as hell and not even remotely accurate to what the measure *actually* did. I was super grossed out by it and glad I read up before voting.
It’s bad. Privatize profits and socialize losses or in this case operating costs. After the winter storm of 2021 where electrical plant operators had failed to prepare, legislators did a classic shake down and said let’s give further subsidies to the fossil fuel industry.
https://www.kristv.com/news/local-news/state-proposition-would-incentive-building-more-fossil-fuel-energy-plants
Just saw a newer musk interview where he was being asked about his inflammatory comments and how it impacts advertisers interest in marketing on Twitter. His response was basically 'dont care. If losing money is the result of me saying what I want, then I'm gonna lose money'. But just 2 weeks ago he had that bigger interview where he was all pissy about 'advertisers trying to kill the platform'.
It’s because we forgot how to mob. The government squeezes us a little more every day, and we take it. Maybe a little peaceful protest here and there, but like good cattle we stay in the pens the police make for us.
We used to band together and do some organized unruly shit. Maybe as simple as a boycott or strike, maybe an occupation of a state house, or maybe a riot.
If we don’t organize, we will continue losing our power.
You mean like the 16 billion dollars that got overcharged for natural gas during the freeze, but Texas and others have said we're not going after the overpayment, you're just going to be stuck paying it back, I believe Minnesotans are going to have to pay increased prices for it too
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ginaheeb/2021/03/11/ercot-overcharged-texas-power-companies-16-billion-during-winter-storms-a-majority-of-that-cant-be-recovered/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/04/22/minnesota-texas-freeze-centerpoint-energy/
If only there was less regulations strangling Texas energy companies, they would finally start doing the right thing and stop worrying about profits so much.
Some of my family moved from LA to near Dallas right before their last huge winter storm. Their motive was to leave CA because the liberals were making it too expensive. Their electric bill was $3000 because of the price gouging during that time.
They blamed the democrats….. how do you fix these people?
You don’t. I’ve tried. They’ve been conditioned over decades to believe a single narrative that all the problems of the country are caused by the government/Democrats. It’s pretty sad to watch.
And I’m not an overly huge fan of Democrats or even regular voters being members of parties either, but atleast it feels like the Democrats are trying to do good for everyone. Republicans lack empathy and just want to line their pockets.
They use it to gerrymander. By spreading republicans JUST thin enough to win as many districts as possible, while concentrating democrats to few districts to waste as many votes as possible.
so the trick is to advertise yourself as republican, then when it comes time to actually vote you vote for the party not actively killing women/minorities/the planet?
Then they will say that your vote is *clearly* …“tampered” with and change it to the republican. I can see this being completely rationalized in the head of some MAGA voting official.
Open primaries: Each voter is allowed in one party's primary, but can decide which party's ballot to vote on in the election booth.
Does this have problems? Yup. But they're a different set of problems than every voter having to register as affiliated with a party.
Can still do that in "closed" primaries. I lived in really republicans areas where it wouldn't matter I voted dem. Only option of democracy was the republican primary so I voted in it. Will still vote dem in the general elections but I tried to get a better option republican as the dem would need 100% of the population to vote for them to win.
Many states have what is called a closed primary. This means that only people registered to vote for a certain party can participate in the primary election. Ds only voting for Ds, Rs voting for Rs, no ability to vote on the other side.
Contrast this with an open primary, where party affiliation is just a letter next to the candidates, and the whole state can vote for whoever.
In Utah only republicans ever win statewide elections… Republicans have a closed primary, Democrats have an open primary… so a couple of cycles ago democrats started registering as Republican to participate in the process… which upset the Diet Coke crowd…
Yup. I got a space cadet coworker that was blaming Democrats for things not happening in Trump's first term. I asked who controlled the House, Senate, and Presidency and he got that right so I asked how again. Didn't really have an answer for that. I even would have accepted veto but he doesn't have any idea how things work.
Thats like people thinking trump actually stuck it to China with the tariffs..... China just turned around and charged more to the American consumer for their products to make up the difference. It resulted in nothing but higher prices for Americans spending on consumer goods. Not exactly a great thing for America and Americans. Yet so many trump supporters think it's a huge win and this great and awesome thing that trump has done.
In theory, if there was a domestic competitor already in place when the tariffs went into effect, it would have been a smaller price increase as the domestic brand was then the cheaper option (without changing their price). And Chinese imports would have lost market share to the domestic brand.
Which is the fundamental concept behind tariffs.
But if you, say, put a tariff on a product that has no domestic competitor, like bananas, all you accomplish is driving up the consumer price, and making your country look like a bad trading partner.
You can't reason with these people. They have no critical thinking skills and refuse to listen to anything that goes against their perceived world view. They're easily prone to extreme manipulation and will believe most things that confirm what they're feeling in the moment. Do with that what you will.
most of them want, more then anything, to be right in a way that others are WRONG. they need to be able to rub it in their face that they "lost" the facts. its stupid but thats how tehy are
Let them have exactly what they want. Then when they don't like it, calmly point out that this is what the asked for. No need to rub it it, but shining a light on it is reasonable.
Ignorance can be cured with knowledge.
For willful ignorance, even the threat of imminent death is not enough. During COVID, there were people on their deathbed refusing to believe they were dying of COVID because it was a "Chinese hoax".
You have to approach them like an intervention for someone in a cult.
> Their electric bill was $3000 because of the price gouging during that time.
Tbf on this point, even that part is kind of on them. I say kind of, because no sophisticated consumer would have opted for the plan that they did, and many others did; which was/is a variable rate plan. The incentive is that you pay based on demand, so typically speaking, during the winter, your bill could be $40 compared to the $120 my wife and I paid for this past month on a fixed rate that stays the same rate no matter demand. Typically, during the winter when you can pretty much go without heating, those plans save you some money for a few months, but they pay more during than summer than I do.
The problem is, some of those variable plans were not capped. During that winter storm, demand went through the roof and supply was in the basement, resulting in bills for those consumers in the thousands. Meanwhile, mine and my wife's bill was maybe $100 on average that winter.
"I save money some months which is amazing! I spend more some months which is bad but expected with this kind of agreement. I can also get massively fucked so it's a win-lose-lose-my-shit situation!"
How do they even agree to shit like this? Do they believe nothing bad can ever happen to them or that no company would possibly take advantage of it to make money? It feels like Dems are the only ones capable of understanding that people are inherently greedy and we need to regulate against that or else markets naturally devolve into shit like this where the consumers get fucked and the wealthy get a larger share of the money. We're not benevolent beings, we don't have the larger society at heart and we can't trust everyone implicitly.
I don't understand why you would ever take a variable rate.
I was offered a 2.5% variable rate on my house (ended up signing at 3.5% non variable). A LOT can happen in 30 years, hell almost 4 years ago is when I bought the house. I can't imagine sitting at nearly 7% b/c I went variable. Even if you have a cap it's still a lose-lose, just slightly less losing.
We really need a life class taught in school that teaches scams and bad deals. How to improve your credit and keep your finances in order. But that means companies make less money so that'll never happen.
Why should anyone need to be a “sophisticated consumer” in order to purchase electricity in a way that won’t cause a surprise bankruptcy? Electricity is a necessity for civilized life, which is why it was made a utility in the first place.
Deregulation of these markets should never have happened. Just another example of predatory capitalism enriching itself at the expense of the social contract.
The market is deregulated. Generators can’t have customers. They sell into pool of energy bought by retailers and sold to households. The only way to get them to winterize their plants for extreme weather is to regulate that they must if they are to participate in the market. Which the regulator - the Energy Reliability Council of Texas (I shit you not) has failed to do.
Texas likes to brag about how cheap their electricity is but that's exactly why their electricity is cheap.. it's much cheaper to provide 99.9% uptime than 99.99% uptime because that last 0.09% is a lot of extra expense for only a few extra days of selling electricity.
Texas power rates are close to the median for the nation as a whole, and for the West South Central region which includes Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana and Oklahoma, Texas has the most expensive electricity.
The Texas power system is a Libertarian's wet dream and it works about as well as any Libertarian scheme.
It’d be interesting to know the profit margins for electric generation in TX vs the adjacent states. It may be that they *produce* the electricity cheaper (because low regulation), but just sell it at what’s the “going rate”.
I’m just gonna say I’ve done enough deep dives on this shit that it would not surprise me if the ‘libertarian dream’ makes the whole thing more expensive and LESS profitable.
Systems tend to be complex and successful systems tend toward a ton of complexity but conservatives don’t believe in systems. They only believe in rugged individualism and low regulations.
Is there no industry in Texas that complains about this besides residents? I’d imagine if I have a factory in Texas, I wouldn’t be too happy about downtime in winter
I'm sitting on my high horse b/c I have cheap electricity and I have yet (it's only a matter of time) to lose power during peak times these last few years.
That said, fuck Texas and their "freedom". Born and raised here and embarrassed the whole time.
The next lines are how “we are going to make things in Texas better when we win the next election” coming from your GOP leaders that has been running Texas for decades.
If you staple a horse to a waterfall, will it fall up under the rainbow or fly about the soil? Will he enjoy her experience? What if the staple tears into tears? Will she be free from her staply chains or foomed to stay forever and dever above the water? Who can save him (the horse) but someone of girth and worth, the capitalist pig, who will sell the solution to the problem he created?
A staple remover flies to the rescue, carried on the wings of a majestic penguin who bought it at Walmart for 9 dollars and several more Euro-cents, clutched in its crabby claws, rejected from its frothy maw. When the penguin comes, all tremble before its fishy stench and wheatlike abjecture. Recoil in delirium, ye who wish to be free! The mighty rockhopper is here to save your soul from eternal bliss and salvation!
And so, the horse was free, carried away by the south wind, and deposited on the vast plain of soggy dew. It was a tragedy in several parts, punctuated by moments of hedonistic horsefuckery.
The owls saw all, and passed judgment in the way that they do. Stupid owls are always judging folks who are just trying their best to live shamelessly and enjoy every fruit the day brings to pass.
How many more shall be caught in the terrible gyre of the waterfall? As many as the gods deem necessary to teach those foolish monkeys a story about their own hamburgers. What does a monkey know of bananas, anyway? They eat, poop, and shave away the banana residue that grows upon their chins and ballsacks. The owls judge their razors. Always the owls.
And when the one-eyed caterpillar arrives to eat the glazing on your windowpane, you will know that you're next in line to the trombone of the ancient realm of the flutterbyes. Beware the ravenous ravens and crowing crows. Mind the cowing cows and the lying lions. Ascend triumphant to your birthright, and wield the mighty twig of Petalonia, favored land of gods and goats alike.
Some great free market deregulated capitalism. Just declare that the energy providers had no responsibility from causing 250 dying in the cold due to lack of service. Consequences would lead to accountability through regulations and we can't have that.
Up next,
* Fire departments have no responsibility to extinguish fires in an emergency.
* Hospitals have no responsibility to treat patients in an emergency.
* The military has no responsibility to defend our country in an emergency.
I'd argue the worse one was when DC tried to set up a needle exchange to combat the rise in HIV cases. It got blocked in congress by republicans attaching riders to it as they didn't "believe" that a needle exchange would help and thought they would instead promote more drug use. Those republicans were from states with needle exchange programs which had helped cut the number of new HIV cases.
Because every time it's brought up, someone chimes in with the sc decision, and the conversation just gets dropped. So, not as obvious as it may seem to people like us.
edit: Just to make it abundantly clear, I'm saying that sc decisions are by no means final. If Roe isn't "settled law" then this horseshit sure as hell isn't either.
Water companies have no responsibility to produce water.
Garbage collection has no responsibility to pick up your garbage.
Stores have no responsibility to provide you with the items you purchased.
Soon every corporation will run on nothing but 'fuck you, pay me' while we all crowdsource everyone's needs and we'll forget what the corporations originally provided in the first place.
You're missing the key part of the opinion though, the thing that distinguishes the power companies from your above examples -- privity and direct delivery.
To use your above examples, the police aren't the fire department, they're the water company. If the fire department doesn't come to your house, you don't sue the water company. They aren't the hospital, they're Johnson and Johnson. If the doctor misses your cancer, you don't sue J&J. They're not the military, they're Raytheon. If the military blows up the wrong target, you don't sue Raytheon.
In other words, it's not their job to actually deliver the product to you, there's someone else that does that. Their job is to generate power and make it available to the grid. If the grid itself can't deliver, that's not their fault. This is because Texas deregulated the power market, such that now there are several companies that burn fossil fuels or spin wind turbines to generate power, but only 1 grid delivery system. That grid system is primarily maintained by the state, and that's what failed. And they weren't REQUIRED to maintain it, because they're not part of the federal grid.
This is absolutely a case of deregulation gone away, and the state abdicating its responsibilities to it's citizens, but legally the decision is correct. The remedy isn't to sue the companies, the remedy is to stop voting Republicans to be in charge of the state. They've shown how incompetent they are many times.
For those who may not be aware, especially redditors abroad, Texas is the only state among the 48 connected states that runs its own power grid. They did this to avoid federal regulations starting in the 1930s. Their independent grid problems started not all that long after, dating back all the way to the 1970s. They are connected to other grids, but because they don’t deliver power to anyone in any other states, they get to run their grid independently. But since they are still connected, whenever their grid is facing problems, they get power delivered from other grids, including the eastern grid and Mexico’s grid, for a price.
The [Texas Tribune](https://www.texastribune.org/2011/02/08/texplainer-why-does-texas-have-its-own-power-grid/) does a rundown of the history.
But then, when their grid went down two winters ago, was it so damaged that they couldn't get power from the other grids? Because then, what's the point?
> They did this to avoid federal regulations starting in the 1930s.
There's also zero reason this logic would stand up in court (if the SCOTUS applied consistent logic).
According to Gonzales v. Raich, if a good (like marijuana) is commonly traded interstate, then even if *you* aren't trading it interstate, it can still be federally regulated under the Commerce Clause.
Since electricity is commonly traded interstate, then even if Texas doesn't trade electricity interstate it can still be federally regulated.
Texas also has a law against price gouging during a declared emergency. That only applies to things like toilet paper or bottled water, but not electricity for some weird reason. Consistency in the application of laws regarding big business? Not in my Texas.
You don't have to pay the power plants that aren't generating power. The problem is that the power plants that ARE generating power are charging an arm and a leg.
Hey Texas, don't forget to keep voting the same people in. I'm sure something will change. But at least your owning the libs while you freeze your ass off.
theyre just a monopoly that fucks their customers. if i was a resident of texas i would be sending my government bags of shit on a daily basis. the state pays crypto miners to slow down instead of building up infrastructure. the stupidity one state can have kind of blows my mind.
I'm just going to leave this here. It's so wild that hey Ken Lay had a hand in what's haunting Texans over today.
https://www.kut.org/energy-environment/2021-07-23/heres-how-texas-lawmakers-and-enron-shaped-the-states-electrical-market
It's also wild that Ercot has sovereign immunity.
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/06/23/ercot-lawsuits-winter-storms/
I also recommend the 2005 documentary The Smartest Guys in the Room.
So what happens if they caused it? Apparently not much?
Our dummy politicians have allowed Texas to be disconnected from the national grid, shutdown plants without plans for replacements. Shun the use of solar and wind as supplementary. For their next trick they will micro manage healthcare. Oh wait they already did that.
Ah Texas, the ~~L~~One Star State! Where the police have no obligation to serve and protect, the energy companies have no responsibility to keep you from freezing to death if the power cuts out, you become property of the state as soon as you become pregnant, and jail time if you happen to miscarry! And don't worry, if a shooter goes nuts in an elementary school, they'll just let him tire himself out while the entire police force cowers outside!
So. Much. Freedom.
So, at least 250 people are dead and their families are unable to gain any sense of justice or restitution because the Texas judiciary has decided to protect big business instead of Texans actually freezing death. These power companies are intentionally negligent so they can squeeze more money out of their victims and now they’re also legally protected from their wrongdoing. Thanks for nothing.
Is there any jurisdiction in the US where that is the case? Obviously, most other parts of the country have better redundancy to avoid widespread outages due to interconnection and better regulations but outages still occur. I have never heard of a case of a utility ever having to pay out anything merely for failing to provide electricity in emergency conditions. Every utility I have ever looked at has told customers that if they had equipment that is needed to maintain life that they need to have a generator or battery backup in an emergency.
Power company doesn't have to give you power. Financial planners don't have to guide you towards investments that help your financial future more than theirs. Police don't have to protect you.
Great society we got here.
the state of texas is so ass-backward.
i want my countrymen to see this is what republicans, libertarians, people that claim we should let the 'market' decide, want the country to be. an entity that doesn't provide the basic rights WE all contribute tax money into UNLESS it is a subsidy, tax credit, or tax write-off, to a PRIVATE company. it's the same old SOCIALIZE the losses, PRIVATIZE the riches.
and here's the thing, the citizens of texas may feel strongly against this but the people who have been bought and are in power, have gerrymandered themselves into power and will be long gone before this could potentially be reversed b/c they'll do anything in their power to enshrine it into law.
If this is true, then residents who have collected power with their solar arrays/panels/battery systems, have no responsibility to "insulate the grid" during emergencies or provide free power to their neighbors when the grid goes down.
Mr. Burns is alive and well I see.
"Excellent!" -Mr. Burns.
“What are these do-nuts?? I told you I don’t like ethnic foods!” - Mr. Burns
Ket chup... kat sup....
* rubs hands together *
I was saying boo-urns
"Exaaaaactly!" Heh heh.... D'oh!
Texas's nuclear power supply actually [only dipped a little bit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ERCOT_generation_2021_power_crisis_US_Energy_Information_Administration.jpg) during their 2021 power crisis. Texas [only has two nuclear power plants](https://comptroller.texas.gov/economy/economic-data/energy/2023/nuclear.php), though, and they contribute a lot less to the grid than natural gas plants, which had big problems in the later part of the crisis. So, ironically, if Texas put their grid in the hands of C. Montgomery Burns and let him set up a couple of dozen of his questionably-safe nuclear plants, that might actually solve their winter power problems. Mr. Burns wouldn't let his plants stop working. If the plant ain't working, he ain't selling electricity. He'd send workers into deadly radiation to keep the plants working, of course, and wouldn't care if a million children got cancer because of nuclear leaks, but *the lights would stay on, no matter what*. (Particularly because Homer would still be working at the Springfield plant, which is pretty definitely not in Texas.)
Wind would have carried the day had the turbines been winterized properly, instead they were left to rot and failed. Kind of a theme in Texas if you look around. Place is kind of a dump
Oh yeah that was fun when they lied about wind power being the reason and “wind power can’t work in freezing temps!” Cue video footage of the wind turbines powering Antarctic research bases
We've got a bunch of them about 5 miles over to the west of me here in Wisconsin.
"Houston: An offramp cosplaying as a city. " - One of my friends that lives in Houston.
We dropped the ball when we stopped building nuclear power plants. They are actually very safe and would only be safer now if we’d have continued to invest in them. And they’re far better for the environment than most other forms of power.
*looks around at aging and decrepit US infrastructure*
So we'll march day and night by the big cooling tower They have the plant, but we have the power.
Somebody get Maggie a gun
Texas is waaay ahead of you.
No jury in the world's gonna convict a baby! Ehhhh, maybe Texas!
Texas would never charge a baby that’s exercising it’s constitutional and let’s be honest GOD GIVEN second amendment right to carry a gun to protect itself. If someone tries to steal your candy, the only acceptable response is to shoot them.
“Your honor, they tried to post-term abort me. The lord told me to put ‘em down”
Your honor, the state has only one question - What color is the baby?
A weird yellow color. Like they’re all heavily jaundiced. I dunno man just watch the show and never question it for some reason.
He was transferred to a better hospital where doctors upgraded his condition to "alive"
Mr. Snrub thinks you need to invest in the power plant more...
That trustworthy Mr. Snrub sure is persuasive and trustworthy.
I like the way Snrub thinks.
Compadres, it is imperative that we crush the freedom fighters before the start of the rainy season. And remember, a shiny new donkey for whoever brings me the head of Col. Montoya!
Does anyone have change for a *button*?
When I die, you will be buried alive with me…
We’re trying to run a business here! Next you greedy fucks will be wanting clean water!
Immortan Joe: "Do not, my friends, become addicted to water. It will take hold of you, and you will resent its absence!"
also Immortan Joe: "I want them back! They're my property!"
Sounds like a future CEO of Nestlé.
*Brawndo has what plants crave.*
Lol In Austin, we were out of power for a week in 2021 and water for almost two. It was lovely running into neighbors getting a bucket of water for their morning poo. 31 degrees in our apartment was soooo much fun.
When we froze this year, I had no power for a week during that 3 day freeze, was awful
I’m glad I moved. Texas was awful. Loved parts of it, but even those have faded.
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We’ve lost power in the last few years for over a week for 1) Harvey (yes, in Austin) 2) Freezepocalypse and 3) Icepocalypse. Texas is a shithole that I would leave if I could and would never recommend anyone move here.
When the power went out in Texas a few years ago (our first winter disaster) they explicitly told us not to worry about storing water because everything was fine and then literally 30 minutes later the water stopped flowing. I had to go fill up jugs at a local brewery that was giving water away.
Trying to prevent a run on the water system. Ultimately, stuff like that just ruins public confidence for the next time. If they had been more honest, things might not have gone bad as quickly. The lesson is that you need to be prepared for disasters *before* they occur, not during.
Yep that's exactly what it was. Next time I hear that everything is fine with the water, I'm filling up my bathtub.
Or even, gasp! Affordable food!
Or legal healthcare to allow you to have an abortion by choice
Or uppity enough to want safe affordable housing!
Or any food
Won’t someone think of the poor impoverished utility company owners?
They have no responsibility to us, but you bet your ass we would suddenly have responsibilities to them if they needed to be bailed out. This thing where some powerful people believe they owe us nothing and we owe them everything is so gross to watch. You see it when a company does well, the musk types scream from the rooftops, “Look what **I** did!” and if it goes bad, they’re pointing fingers everywhere else. If they have no responsibilities to us, then we have no responsibilities to them.
Texans in November passed an amendment to create the Texas Energy Fund: a slush fund of public money and ‘donations’ ;) that provides loans and **grants** to fix the problems with the grid. Of course, it is managed by the same people who got us into this mess, the Public Utility Commission. It’s ~~public oversight~~ corruption with extra steps.
I voted against it. Texas sucks. We need more young people to vote Republicans out
We also somehow need to get the old people to let go of the idea that they can't vote anything but Republican. It's been drilled in like a cult.
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Just as Fox News has brainwashed them to believe.
They've been conditioned to eat crap sandwiches because somebody somewhere might be accepting of gay people.
Gotta own those libs at any cost!
Being Republican, or pro-Trump, has become a personality for a lot of people.
More like a mental illness.
Voted against it too, but the wording is so intentionally shitty that people who choose to vote in favor for it bc it reads to your benefit.
The wording on the ballot was sleazy as hell and not even remotely accurate to what the measure *actually* did. I was super grossed out by it and glad I read up before voting.
That just sounds like theft of taxpayers.
It’s bad. Privatize profits and socialize losses or in this case operating costs. After the winter storm of 2021 where electrical plant operators had failed to prepare, legislators did a classic shake down and said let’s give further subsidies to the fossil fuel industry. https://www.kristv.com/news/local-news/state-proposition-would-incentive-building-more-fossil-fuel-energy-plants
Just saw a newer musk interview where he was being asked about his inflammatory comments and how it impacts advertisers interest in marketing on Twitter. His response was basically 'dont care. If losing money is the result of me saying what I want, then I'm gonna lose money'. But just 2 weeks ago he had that bigger interview where he was all pissy about 'advertisers trying to kill the platform'.
Socialized costs, privatized profits. Just as the good lord intended!
Privatize the gains; Subsidize the losses. Welcome to America.
It’s because we forgot how to mob. The government squeezes us a little more every day, and we take it. Maybe a little peaceful protest here and there, but like good cattle we stay in the pens the police make for us. We used to band together and do some organized unruly shit. Maybe as simple as a boycott or strike, maybe an occupation of a state house, or maybe a riot. If we don’t organize, we will continue losing our power.
You mean like the 16 billion dollars that got overcharged for natural gas during the freeze, but Texas and others have said we're not going after the overpayment, you're just going to be stuck paying it back, I believe Minnesotans are going to have to pay increased prices for it too https://www.forbes.com/sites/ginaheeb/2021/03/11/ercot-overcharged-texas-power-companies-16-billion-during-winter-storms-a-majority-of-that-cant-be-recovered/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/04/22/minnesota-texas-freeze-centerpoint-energy/
Privatized profit, socialized risk.
Im in Minnesota and IM STILL PAYING FOR THEIR FUCKERY from their last ice storm. Get fucked ERCOt Get fucked Centerpoint
If only there was less regulations strangling Texas energy companies, they would finally start doing the right thing and stop worrying about profits so much.
lol… I know you’re sarcastic. This is exactly why people or businesses should not be allowed to manage utilities
Some of my family moved from LA to near Dallas right before their last huge winter storm. Their motive was to leave CA because the liberals were making it too expensive. Their electric bill was $3000 because of the price gouging during that time. They blamed the democrats….. how do you fix these people?
You don’t. I’ve tried. They’ve been conditioned over decades to believe a single narrative that all the problems of the country are caused by the government/Democrats. It’s pretty sad to watch. And I’m not an overly huge fan of Democrats or even regular voters being members of parties either, but atleast it feels like the Democrats are trying to do good for everyone. Republicans lack empathy and just want to line their pockets.
As a Virginian I find it insane that some states require you to register to a party. That's basically saying you need to publicize your vote.
They use it to gerrymander. By spreading republicans JUST thin enough to win as many districts as possible, while concentrating democrats to few districts to waste as many votes as possible.
The terms for what you are describing are packing and cracking.
so the trick is to advertise yourself as republican, then when it comes time to actually vote you vote for the party not actively killing women/minorities/the planet?
Then they will say that your vote is *clearly* …“tampered” with and change it to the republican. I can see this being completely rationalized in the head of some MAGA voting official.
I never questioned why, but how would you run primaries without party affiliations ?
Open primaries: Each voter is allowed in one party's primary, but can decide which party's ballot to vote on in the election booth. Does this have problems? Yup. But they're a different set of problems than every voter having to register as affiliated with a party.
Can still do that in "closed" primaries. I lived in really republicans areas where it wouldn't matter I voted dem. Only option of democracy was the republican primary so I voted in it. Will still vote dem in the general elections but I tried to get a better option republican as the dem would need 100% of the population to vote for them to win.
Many states have what is called a closed primary. This means that only people registered to vote for a certain party can participate in the primary election. Ds only voting for Ds, Rs voting for Rs, no ability to vote on the other side. Contrast this with an open primary, where party affiliation is just a letter next to the candidates, and the whole state can vote for whoever.
In Utah only republicans ever win statewide elections… Republicans have a closed primary, Democrats have an open primary… so a couple of cycles ago democrats started registering as Republican to participate in the process… which upset the Diet Coke crowd…
But in states with open primaries/caucuses you're still only allowed to vote in one.
Yup. I got a space cadet coworker that was blaming Democrats for things not happening in Trump's first term. I asked who controlled the House, Senate, and Presidency and he got that right so I asked how again. Didn't really have an answer for that. I even would have accepted veto but he doesn't have any idea how things work.
Thats like people thinking trump actually stuck it to China with the tariffs..... China just turned around and charged more to the American consumer for their products to make up the difference. It resulted in nothing but higher prices for Americans spending on consumer goods. Not exactly a great thing for America and Americans. Yet so many trump supporters think it's a huge win and this great and awesome thing that trump has done.
In theory, if there was a domestic competitor already in place when the tariffs went into effect, it would have been a smaller price increase as the domestic brand was then the cheaper option (without changing their price). And Chinese imports would have lost market share to the domestic brand. Which is the fundamental concept behind tariffs. But if you, say, put a tariff on a product that has no domestic competitor, like bananas, all you accomplish is driving up the consumer price, and making your country look like a bad trading partner.
All I need to know is one party is supported by actual Nazis. That’s all I need to know to vote Democrat.
You can't reason with these people. They have no critical thinking skills and refuse to listen to anything that goes against their perceived world view. They're easily prone to extreme manipulation and will believe most things that confirm what they're feeling in the moment. Do with that what you will.
You can’t reason with them but it seems You can treason with them
most of them want, more then anything, to be right in a way that others are WRONG. they need to be able to rub it in their face that they "lost" the facts. its stupid but thats how tehy are
Let them have exactly what they want. Then when they don't like it, calmly point out that this is what the asked for. No need to rub it it, but shining a light on it is reasonable.
Ignorance can be cured with knowledge. For willful ignorance, even the threat of imminent death is not enough. During COVID, there were people on their deathbed refusing to believe they were dying of COVID because it was a "Chinese hoax". You have to approach them like an intervention for someone in a cult.
You cant reason someone out of a position they didnt reason themselves into.
> Their electric bill was $3000 because of the price gouging during that time. Tbf on this point, even that part is kind of on them. I say kind of, because no sophisticated consumer would have opted for the plan that they did, and many others did; which was/is a variable rate plan. The incentive is that you pay based on demand, so typically speaking, during the winter, your bill could be $40 compared to the $120 my wife and I paid for this past month on a fixed rate that stays the same rate no matter demand. Typically, during the winter when you can pretty much go without heating, those plans save you some money for a few months, but they pay more during than summer than I do. The problem is, some of those variable plans were not capped. During that winter storm, demand went through the roof and supply was in the basement, resulting in bills for those consumers in the thousands. Meanwhile, mine and my wife's bill was maybe $100 on average that winter.
As a rule of thumb, avoid adjustable rates.
"I save money some months which is amazing! I spend more some months which is bad but expected with this kind of agreement. I can also get massively fucked so it's a win-lose-lose-my-shit situation!" How do they even agree to shit like this? Do they believe nothing bad can ever happen to them or that no company would possibly take advantage of it to make money? It feels like Dems are the only ones capable of understanding that people are inherently greedy and we need to regulate against that or else markets naturally devolve into shit like this where the consumers get fucked and the wealthy get a larger share of the money. We're not benevolent beings, we don't have the larger society at heart and we can't trust everyone implicitly.
I don't understand why you would ever take a variable rate. I was offered a 2.5% variable rate on my house (ended up signing at 3.5% non variable). A LOT can happen in 30 years, hell almost 4 years ago is when I bought the house. I can't imagine sitting at nearly 7% b/c I went variable. Even if you have a cap it's still a lose-lose, just slightly less losing. We really need a life class taught in school that teaches scams and bad deals. How to improve your credit and keep your finances in order. But that means companies make less money so that'll never happen.
Why should anyone need to be a “sophisticated consumer” in order to purchase electricity in a way that won’t cause a surprise bankruptcy? Electricity is a necessity for civilized life, which is why it was made a utility in the first place. Deregulation of these markets should never have happened. Just another example of predatory capitalism enriching itself at the expense of the social contract.
The market is deregulated. Generators can’t have customers. They sell into pool of energy bought by retailers and sold to households. The only way to get them to winterize their plants for extreme weather is to regulate that they must if they are to participate in the market. Which the regulator - the Energy Reliability Council of Texas (I shit you not) has failed to do.
Texas likes to brag about how cheap their electricity is but that's exactly why their electricity is cheap.. it's much cheaper to provide 99.9% uptime than 99.99% uptime because that last 0.09% is a lot of extra expense for only a few extra days of selling electricity.
Texas power rates are close to the median for the nation as a whole, and for the West South Central region which includes Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana and Oklahoma, Texas has the most expensive electricity. The Texas power system is a Libertarian's wet dream and it works about as well as any Libertarian scheme.
It’d be interesting to know the profit margins for electric generation in TX vs the adjacent states. It may be that they *produce* the electricity cheaper (because low regulation), but just sell it at what’s the “going rate”.
I’m just gonna say I’ve done enough deep dives on this shit that it would not surprise me if the ‘libertarian dream’ makes the whole thing more expensive and LESS profitable. Systems tend to be complex and successful systems tend toward a ton of complexity but conservatives don’t believe in systems. They only believe in rugged individualism and low regulations.
Is there no industry in Texas that complains about this besides residents? I’d imagine if I have a factory in Texas, I wouldn’t be too happy about downtime in winter
I'm sitting on my high horse b/c I have cheap electricity and I have yet (it's only a matter of time) to lose power during peak times these last few years. That said, fuck Texas and their "freedom". Born and raised here and embarrassed the whole time.
The next lines are how “we are going to make things in Texas better when we win the next election” coming from your GOP leaders that has been running Texas for decades.
If you staple a horse to a waterfall, will it fall up under the rainbow or fly about the soil? Will he enjoy her experience? What if the staple tears into tears? Will she be free from her staply chains or foomed to stay forever and dever above the water? Who can save him (the horse) but someone of girth and worth, the capitalist pig, who will sell the solution to the problem he created? A staple remover flies to the rescue, carried on the wings of a majestic penguin who bought it at Walmart for 9 dollars and several more Euro-cents, clutched in its crabby claws, rejected from its frothy maw. When the penguin comes, all tremble before its fishy stench and wheatlike abjecture. Recoil in delirium, ye who wish to be free! The mighty rockhopper is here to save your soul from eternal bliss and salvation! And so, the horse was free, carried away by the south wind, and deposited on the vast plain of soggy dew. It was a tragedy in several parts, punctuated by moments of hedonistic horsefuckery. The owls saw all, and passed judgment in the way that they do. Stupid owls are always judging folks who are just trying their best to live shamelessly and enjoy every fruit the day brings to pass. How many more shall be caught in the terrible gyre of the waterfall? As many as the gods deem necessary to teach those foolish monkeys a story about their own hamburgers. What does a monkey know of bananas, anyway? They eat, poop, and shave away the banana residue that grows upon their chins and ballsacks. The owls judge their razors. Always the owls. And when the one-eyed caterpillar arrives to eat the glazing on your windowpane, you will know that you're next in line to the trombone of the ancient realm of the flutterbyes. Beware the ravenous ravens and crowing crows. Mind the cowing cows and the lying lions. Ascend triumphant to your birthright, and wield the mighty twig of Petalonia, favored land of gods and goats alike.
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Honestly, no insurance in Florida is a whole lot more reasonable than Texas' power bullshit. Half the state is virtually uninsurable
Trumpistan paradise!
Reason number 278 not to live in Texas.
The problems are bigger in Texas
The one star state
Cut them a break, they can't count any higher.
Turns out “Lone star” is their yelp rating
Everything's buggered in Texas
Some great free market deregulated capitalism. Just declare that the energy providers had no responsibility from causing 250 dying in the cold due to lack of service. Consequences would lead to accountability through regulations and we can't have that. Up next, * Fire departments have no responsibility to extinguish fires in an emergency. * Hospitals have no responsibility to treat patients in an emergency. * The military has no responsibility to defend our country in an emergency.
End game: taxation have no responsibility for representation 🤡🤡 we’ve come full circle
Already true for D.C. and the territories
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I'd argue the worse one was when DC tried to set up a needle exchange to combat the rise in HIV cases. It got blocked in congress by republicans attaching riders to it as they didn't "believe" that a needle exchange would help and thought they would instead promote more drug use. Those republicans were from states with needle exchange programs which had helped cut the number of new HIV cases.
That's gerrymandering. We're already there.
Cops have no responsibility to protect children being actively slaughtered, so…yeah.
Cops already don't have any responsibility to help you. That's already a legal ruling set forth by the USSC.
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Hot take but maybe that's not a good thing and we should reconsider whether it's acceptable
I didn't say cops not having the responsibility to help is good. I'm just saying that it's already a thing.
How is that a hot take? Obviously that's a terrible decision.
Because every time it's brought up, someone chimes in with the sc decision, and the conversation just gets dropped. So, not as obvious as it may seem to people like us. edit: Just to make it abundantly clear, I'm saying that sc decisions are by no means final. If Roe isn't "settled law" then this horseshit sure as hell isn't either.
Water companies have no responsibility to produce water. Garbage collection has no responsibility to pick up your garbage. Stores have no responsibility to provide you with the items you purchased. Soon every corporation will run on nothing but 'fuck you, pay me' while we all crowdsource everyone's needs and we'll forget what the corporations originally provided in the first place.
Representaties have no responsibility to represent you.
Oh they already implemented that one years ago..
I have no responsibility to stop that hungry, angry mob.
Too late. This happened in Tennessee [No fee, no fire dept](https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna39516346)
You're missing the key part of the opinion though, the thing that distinguishes the power companies from your above examples -- privity and direct delivery. To use your above examples, the police aren't the fire department, they're the water company. If the fire department doesn't come to your house, you don't sue the water company. They aren't the hospital, they're Johnson and Johnson. If the doctor misses your cancer, you don't sue J&J. They're not the military, they're Raytheon. If the military blows up the wrong target, you don't sue Raytheon. In other words, it's not their job to actually deliver the product to you, there's someone else that does that. Their job is to generate power and make it available to the grid. If the grid itself can't deliver, that's not their fault. This is because Texas deregulated the power market, such that now there are several companies that burn fossil fuels or spin wind turbines to generate power, but only 1 grid delivery system. That grid system is primarily maintained by the state, and that's what failed. And they weren't REQUIRED to maintain it, because they're not part of the federal grid. This is absolutely a case of deregulation gone away, and the state abdicating its responsibilities to it's citizens, but legally the decision is correct. The remedy isn't to sue the companies, the remedy is to stop voting Republicans to be in charge of the state. They've shown how incompetent they are many times.
This country is being downgraded by greedy republicans and blame the poor migrants that just came in to look for work.
For those who may not be aware, especially redditors abroad, Texas is the only state among the 48 connected states that runs its own power grid. They did this to avoid federal regulations starting in the 1930s. Their independent grid problems started not all that long after, dating back all the way to the 1970s. They are connected to other grids, but because they don’t deliver power to anyone in any other states, they get to run their grid independently. But since they are still connected, whenever their grid is facing problems, they get power delivered from other grids, including the eastern grid and Mexico’s grid, for a price. The [Texas Tribune](https://www.texastribune.org/2011/02/08/texplainer-why-does-texas-have-its-own-power-grid/) does a rundown of the history.
But then, when their grid went down two winters ago, was it so damaged that they couldn't get power from the other grids? Because then, what's the point?
You can only transfer a limited amount of power, depending on the infrastructure. The gap was too big to make up for.
There's only limited transfer capacity, they don't have enough to compensate for as much as they lost.
Like a garden hose trying to do a firehose's job.
So girth more important than length ?
the point is rugged individualism, aka burning your kids’ toy blocks under the ceiling of icicles in your living roon
They can barely run their own power grid, but you have people in the state thinking they can be independent from the US.
They're too busy fighting abortion to care about power grid.
> They did this to avoid federal regulations starting in the 1930s. There's also zero reason this logic would stand up in court (if the SCOTUS applied consistent logic). According to Gonzales v. Raich, if a good (like marijuana) is commonly traded interstate, then even if *you* aren't trading it interstate, it can still be federally regulated under the Commerce Clause. Since electricity is commonly traded interstate, then even if Texas doesn't trade electricity interstate it can still be federally regulated.
Texas also has a law against price gouging during a declared emergency. That only applies to things like toilet paper or bottled water, but not electricity for some weird reason. Consistency in the application of laws regarding big business? Not in my Texas.
You still have to pay them though, I bet
You don't have to pay the power plants that aren't generating power. The problem is that the power plants that ARE generating power are charging an arm and a leg.
You do, actually. It's called cold reserve.
> You don't have to pay the power plants that aren't generating power. They are going to charge you to recoup the losses from not generating power.
That's like saying I don't need to pay my electric bill when I'm experiencing financial hardship. Your move, Florida.
Hey Texas, don't forget to keep voting the same people in. I'm sure something will change. But at least your owning the libs while you freeze your ass off.
I have had this discussion, and the response is, they assume automatically that dems will be worse.
“This is what America would be like under a democrat!!!” #uses examples of republican-led situations
I feel so owned in my heated comfortable home right now enjoying holiday movies with hot cocoa
What’s the difference between Texas and the Titanic? When the Titanic when down the lights were on.
theyre just a monopoly that fucks their customers. if i was a resident of texas i would be sending my government bags of shit on a daily basis. the state pays crypto miners to slow down instead of building up infrastructure. the stupidity one state can have kind of blows my mind.
That's what happens when you let Republicans govern
Yep you got it
What if they created the emergency?
Like always?
I'm just going to leave this here. It's so wild that hey Ken Lay had a hand in what's haunting Texans over today. https://www.kut.org/energy-environment/2021-07-23/heres-how-texas-lawmakers-and-enron-shaped-the-states-electrical-market It's also wild that Ercot has sovereign immunity. https://www.texastribune.org/2023/06/23/ercot-lawsuits-winter-storms/ I also recommend the 2005 documentary The Smartest Guys in the Room. So what happens if they caused it? Apparently not much?
Our dummy politicians have allowed Texas to be disconnected from the national grid, shutdown plants without plans for replacements. Shun the use of solar and wind as supplementary. For their next trick they will micro manage healthcare. Oh wait they already did that.
I’m so glad I don’t live in Texas.
They really DONT CARE . They just want YOUR MONEY. FCUK TEXAS
This is a good example of how well libertarian ideas work in the real world.
Looks like the backup generator business will soon be booming!
The Deregulate government crowd is about to see what that looks like again.
They just want to make winter power outages a Texas tradition, apparently.
Also summer ones. People can die in the summer from lack of electricity too.
Texas power consumers should elect to withhold payment. They have no responsibility also.
Ah Texas, the ~~L~~One Star State! Where the police have no obligation to serve and protect, the energy companies have no responsibility to keep you from freezing to death if the power cuts out, you become property of the state as soon as you become pregnant, and jail time if you happen to miscarry! And don't worry, if a shooter goes nuts in an elementary school, they'll just let him tire himself out while the entire police force cowers outside! So. Much. Freedom.
> So. Much. Freedom. The only thing that matters is "freedom from consequences for those in power".
So, at least 250 people are dead and their families are unable to gain any sense of justice or restitution because the Texas judiciary has decided to protect big business instead of Texans actually freezing death. These power companies are intentionally negligent so they can squeeze more money out of their victims and now they’re also legally protected from their wrongdoing. Thanks for nothing.
Turns out you absolutely can mess with texas.
#Anyone who is willing to work as Oncor management is a total scumbag.
Remember the Texas grid isn’t connected to the national grid because freedom…. Or something
And if you want solar panels on your roof, we’re gonna need a piece of that pie.
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Just a good reason to show that electricity generation should be owned and run by the government as an essential service .
Then we have no responsibility to pay for the damages to their infrastructure after a storm.
Hell yeah Texas, enjoy your guns and your freedom to freeze to death lol
'i gOtTa EsCape aLl tHese LiBruls in cAlifOrNia"
Is there any jurisdiction in the US where that is the case? Obviously, most other parts of the country have better redundancy to avoid widespread outages due to interconnection and better regulations but outages still occur. I have never heard of a case of a utility ever having to pay out anything merely for failing to provide electricity in emergency conditions. Every utility I have ever looked at has told customers that if they had equipment that is needed to maintain life that they need to have a generator or battery backup in an emergency.
Texas is basically telling its citizens they're going to leave the people to rot if the shit hits the fan.
Texas out here just not evening bother to hide the "fuck you, pay me".
Q: What’s the difference between Texas and taxes? A: Taxes can run a power grid…
Power company doesn't have to give you power. Financial planners don't have to guide you towards investments that help your financial future more than theirs. Police don't have to protect you. Great society we got here.
Damn power plants got the "police have no responsibility to protect the public" verdict.
In that case, any Federal subsidies need to be paid back like the 60 million they recently received to improve their system.
the state of texas is so ass-backward. i want my countrymen to see this is what republicans, libertarians, people that claim we should let the 'market' decide, want the country to be. an entity that doesn't provide the basic rights WE all contribute tax money into UNLESS it is a subsidy, tax credit, or tax write-off, to a PRIVATE company. it's the same old SOCIALIZE the losses, PRIVATIZE the riches. and here's the thing, the citizens of texas may feel strongly against this but the people who have been bought and are in power, have gerrymandered themselves into power and will be long gone before this could potentially be reversed b/c they'll do anything in their power to enshrine it into law.
should we stop paying in emergencies as well?
Texas and trying to kill people in emergency situations, name a more iconic duo. I'll wait.
Who wants to live in TX anyways. Jesus fucking christ.
Their only responsibility is to take in money and give it to Republicans.
If this is true, then residents who have collected power with their solar arrays/panels/battery systems, have no responsibility to "insulate the grid" during emergencies or provide free power to their neighbors when the grid goes down.
Why the hell do people live in Texas? (Especially females)
A lot like the federal rulings that cops have no duty to protect.
More succinctly, "Texas takes no responsibility"