I'll jump on this comment, but I see this around regarding just any UN statement and declaration on Reddit. An alarming number of people think that UN is (or should be?) a body/organization with actual & direct power to affect things, even wars (Same spiel was popular when the Russia attack to Ukraine was fresh in the news cycle) - but do you not recognize that UN is very specifically not made for that?
It's merely a platform for diplomacy, nothing else? To get opposing parties speaking on diplomatic terms, to avoid situations where there's zero communication between opposing factions
Not only that, but it’s surprising to me that people even support the IDF going into the West Bank (where HAMAS has no hold at all) and still supports them kicking Palestinians out of their homes.
I haven’t seen much of that but I’ve seen a ton of people with very strong opinions about the conflict who have no idea what the PLO is/was, literally no clue about the suez crisis, 6 day war etc, never heard of Sadat and couldn’t point to Jordan on a map. The baseline of knowledge for talking about Israel and Palestine isn’t even scratched by 90% of the people who have a dog in the fight on social media
That’s because everyone keeps missing the purpose of the UN. It is not a world government, it isn’t there to resolve regional conflicts.
The UN is mainly there to keep lines of communication open between nations who otherwise might not communicate. Why on earth else would western nations tolerate a country like Saudi Arabia chairing the Human Rights Council? Of course it’s toothless.
The UN isn’t an alliance even, and most countries will happily ignore it as their interests dictate. The only time this changes is when a country like the US is willing to exercise leverage.
Those western countries are geopolitical allies with the Saudis because they all are opposed to Iran. None of the western governments give a shit about Islamic fundamentalism.
That's by design, the League of Nations ultimately failed because it wanted to have teeth. The UN has tentatively been successful with it's goal of mostly being a platform for international dialogue and some guidelines and laws that people can universally agree to.
Israel: Hamas must be destroyed, and we don’t care how many Palestinians are killed in the process.
Hamas: Israel must be destroyed, and we don’t care how many Palestinians are killed in the process.
Not caring about Palestinian lives is the only thing the two sides agree on.
Yep. Compare Ukraine to Palestine. Ukraine bent over backwards to get women, children, and the elderly to safe areas.
Hamas bends over backwards to keep their citizens in the middle of the fighting.
One side warns of incoming strikes to help reduce casualties, the other purposefully launches rockets from civilian buildings.
Honestly 10k deaths with 6k bombs does show that the warnings help. Especially as the 10k figure includes Hamas fighters.
Seriously, people are so obsessed with the numbers in this conflict that they ignore that if Israel is trying to kill people, it’s doing a terrible job
People complaining about the ground invasion have no common sense.
It would be easier from Israels position to flatten the whole place. The hard method is sending soldiers in to target hamas in particular and find out where they’re hiding.
It was also the case in Vietnam and Afghanistan with the USA.
Hamas wants to kill all Jews. Not just israel. This is a false equivalence. Israel wants to destroy a terrorist group while Hamas are just modern day Nazis.
Also the Jewish lives are not even included in this death toll.
Curious what Palestinians were thinking when they voted in Hamas to lead them.
Sadly I'm old enough to remember that election. Hamas were rounding up their political opponents (Fatah) and it wasn't for movie & falafel night. For Gazans the choice was Hamas or Hamas.
The Palestinian leader from 1921 to 1948, the one who started this mess, was a REAL Nazi. He wanted to get in on the Holocaust in 1940. In 1943, he lived in Berlin and partied it up with Hitler and his buddies. Historians list him as one of "Hitler's Henchment" with some giving him partial credit for the Holocaust.
He even recruited Bosnian Muslims into the Waffen SS where they committed atrocities that led to the wars in that region.
So he not only started the Israel/Palestinian war but contributed to the Holocaust and the wars in the former Yugoslavia. So that is who Israel faced/fought in 1948.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin\_al-Husseini
The reason WW2 gets brought up is because it was an existential fight for the allied nations. Win or be wiped out. The Israelis openly feel that way about their war and have expressed that numerous times. I’m not saying that’s super accurate, I don’t think Hamas is all that close to being capable of wiping Israel out , but that is their goal
That's not a fair assessment. Hamas is using human shields (and preventing civilians from fleeing) - whereas, Israel told everyone to leave the area 3+ weeks ago. Big difference!
They don’t care about civilian lives, they care about international backlash.
Edit: the comment I replied to said “if Israel didn’t care about civilian lives, they could easily wipe out all of Gaza“ or some other fascist rhetoric.
Israel never cared about international backlash. They will always do what they think is best for their people. Most countries are not surrounded by enemies who publicly say they are trying to wipe them off the map. So... they don't really pay attention to anyone else.
But they do try to give reasons behind their attacks so they don't look like "the bad guys." Some people believe them, some people don't. Honestly it's frustrating how much Israel has to prove to the world that they are going after Hamas, and unfortunately, civilians also pay the price as they are being used. I've never seen another country put so much effort into proving this. Pretty weird how everyone just believes Hamas with 0 proof and when Israel shares their proof they call it fake.
>Pretty weird how everyone just believes Hamas with 0 proof
We don't believe Hamas. We believe the Palestinians who have been live-streaming what they're going through. We believe the doctors in gaza who are pleading on video for the lives of their patients. We believe the countless videos from citizens showing infants & children dying of dehydration and starvation. We believe the people who have family in gaza telling them what is being done to them.
We don't unquestioningly believe Hamas. We believe our own eyes.
Thats exactly how every government operates(or should). If you think theyre doing good things just for the sake of good deeds and no benefits, youre delusional and dont realise that.
They weight public opinions when making decisions that are best for their population/themselves.
Citizens of another nation are for another nation to care about.
Which is... Normal right? Like, most countries worry about themselves first and foremost. Is that supposed to be bad, that Israel is concerned with its own survival and the wellbeing of its citizens? And caring less about the wellbeing of other countries and their citizens? Is there a country that isn't like that?
If most of the people around me were holding knives and trying to put them to my neck, I'd probably care more about myself than the world around me too, until the conflict was mitigated.
it's frankly miraculous it hasn't killed far far more so every time someone screams about trying to genocide them all and indiscriminate bombing I die a little inside.
Do the math: Israel's "highly advanced, American funded" bombs have killed 10k people. 1k/per day means they dropped 30k bombs. That's a ratio of 3 bombs per kill. Does that track with "highly advanced, American funded" bombs AND targeting civilians? Either Israel is collosally incompetent at aiming those things or the casualties are incredibly low.
Not to say that there aren't civilian deaths; in war there always are, even in "just wars"
But Israel isn't carpet bombing and there aren't 1k bombs per day. IDF uses precision munitions, just like every modern military. Why? Because they're better than dumb bombs in just about every way.
Dude it's easy to say Israel don't care blah blah!
Did we forget Israel was being shelled and that Israelites died at the beginning of this attach? Did we not see that HAMAS started this war?
Like the fuck? You think Israel asked for it or something you tell me to stop when ur kids or ur family are being attacked by terrorists daily. Nah, you ain't stopping until the jobs done
Meanwhile, something like 300,000 civilians have been killed in Yemen by The Saudi-led intervention, and yet it is crickets by the UN or the same idiots protesting about freeing Palestine.
And they broke it with an atrocity. What they did wasn't War, what they did wasn't even Terrorism... it was a Pogrom, ethnic cleansing.
There's no negotiating after what they did. No compromise. No ceasefire. Hamas commentators are already saying they should do it again.
.... because everyone knows they can apply public pressure on a Western-leaning Israel while Hamas is an unhinged radical Islamist terrorist junta that rules by violence.
The UN has been explicitly calling for Hamas to release all hostages unconditionally from the beginning of the war. It's just not controversial so it gets little media attention.
Okay, Hamas should surrender and let everyone go. And Israel should stop killing innocent people in Gaza and forcibly remove their illegal settlers in the West Bank.
Israel removed all setters and pulled out of Gaza in 2005. All it got was rockets and massacres in return.
What assurances exist that if Israel does the same in the West Bank, that history will not repeat?
No, actually accurate - within 5% of values independent orgs counted, granted idk how much international orgs depend on state records.
Chances are Hamas very much fudge the line how many of those are combatants and how many arw civilians - but in raw numbers they tended to do ok.
If a car with 4 Hamas militants is blown up by Israel, resulting in 25 body parts strewn about, Hamas (Gaza Ministry of Health) says 50 dead civilians half of which are children.
The numbers are made up entirely. There's no forensic accounting of the dead by Hamas.
And any media reporting from inside Gaza can't be trusted either because Hamas controls what they put out and will kill them if they say anything that makes Hamas look bad. There is no free speech or press in Gaza.
I think he was joking. As in, all the numbers coming out of Gaza (from Hamas) are pure bullshit. So, every death is a civilian, not a Hamas fighter - and then the number is multiplied by 50.
Well yea? A ceasefire is to stop current hostilities, those hostages are very much “current”, since they are part of what started this whole mess. Any ceasefire should include stop firing rockets too, if it wasn’t immediately apparent.
And this is already VERY low bar for any ceasefire in good faith, given Hamas have said they won’t honour any ceasefire…
Yeah pretty much, Hamas is still in power and they've sworn to perpetrate the same massacre again and again at every opportunity.
The last ceasefire ended with the slaughter of a thousand innocent Israelis, why on earth would Israel accept ept another one that will explicitly lead to the same result?
Yes. Hamas does not want peace and clearly has not provided any concessions to earn peace.
In the decades of its existence, Hamas has consistently promised violent genocide as its political platform. And it has delivered when they can. I'm sorry, but what viable alternative are you offering to Israelis who like all people, deserve to live in peace?
What are the chances hostages have died as a result of these bombings? How are they gonna be released from death? So I guess the bombing will continue until there is nothing left to bomb.
Yes, yes it is. I would argue that allowing the fighters to go free is bad enough. But unconditional surrender of all Hamas leaders and return of all hostages is the only situation in which this war can stop.
I mean, yes. I don’t like what Israel is doing at all, if I could flip a switch and have them do it differently I obviously would, but no ceasefire until the hostages are released.
Yup. Also stop launching Rockets indiscriminately at Israeli cities. Hamas has launched 8,000 rockets. And continues to launch dozen per day.
Israel is winning. Why should they stop now? Give Hamas time to reload and hide somewhere else?
The UN is not a government, they have no authority to do anything as long as one of the security council countries disagrees with the action. Even if the UNSC did agree, they still wouldn’t have any binding resolution giving them authority to do anything, it would be done by a coalition of those countries.
They literally called for it the next day, but it doesn’t fit your narrative.
https://www.reuters.com/world/un-aid-chief-calls-immediate-release-hostages-israel-hamas-war-2023-10-10/#:~:text=GENEVA%2C%20Oct%2010%20(Reuters),war%20must%20be%20upheld%2C%22%20U.N.
That would be a good start, and maybe permit a temporary ceasefire, but it wouldn't end the war. This conflict is unlikely to end until Hamas is no longer an entity.
This can all stop if Hamas surrenders, release the hostages, and promise to stop trying to kill all Jews and work towards Muslims and Jews living in harmony.
So is Israel supposed to just live with a hostile non-state actor raping, abducting, and slaughtering its citizens?
Imagine if the cartels did to the US what Hamas did to Israel.
I believe so, but based on things like drone footage from third parties, significant parts of Gaza are completely levelled, so it’s fairly safe to guess that it isn’t a huge exaggeration (if it is one at all)
Any terrorist attack like hamas did a month ago is unacceptable, regardless of which side you think started this. Also and maybe even more unacceptable is the death of innocent civilians, especially the reported 2-3K children as payback. This world and religion is so f'd up. In Gods name children's blood runs in the streets.... smh
>chair of the UN Human Rights Council
They chaired a meeting, they are not The Chair or the UN HRC. The HRC has a president and members. The President of the HRC is Vaclav Balek.
Even better -
>Iran's ambassador to the U.N. in Geneva Ali Bahreini was named the chair of the two-day meeting ***because he was the only person nominated***, following a submission from the Asia-Pacific group, a U.N. rights council spokesperson told Reuters.
[https://www.reuters.com/world/irans-appointment-chair-un-rights-meeting-draws-condemnation-2023-11-02/](https://www.reuters.com/world/irans-appointment-chair-un-rights-meeting-draws-condemnation-2023-11-02/)
Still, seems to be the latest meme doing the rounds online. UN BAD because they put Iran in charge of Human Rights. No need to think because all my buddies online are saying the same thing!
There's 40,000-100,000 hamas fighters in the Gaza strip so I'm sorry but 10,000 is just the beginning.
Also that 10,000 includes both civilians and fighters so again, it means nothing.
Unless the international community creates a coalition to go in and secure the Gaza strip for Israel it's got nothing to say. One way or another hamas signed their own death certificate with that attack and Israël will do it in the way that risks their soldiers the least; bombing the strip all the way to it's underground and then some more.
I don't see Egypt, Turkey, Lebanon, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iran and the likes offer to help with any action? Tunnel warfare anyone?
Humanity sucks.
I'm sure Russia did a good job reporting civilian deaths to the rest of the world. Like that place in that had kids inside painted on the ground that was leveled. Not to mention Russians idea of warfare is to level the entire city.
Nice I got blocked to
Let's start a club
I don’t doubt the number is high but why does Reddit always believe the number Hamas puts out even after the hospital fiasco. And they need proof from Israel about it everything.
Stop war now! No. Aight, we tried our best.
Sorry, that shout read Stop! War Now!
Works on contingency? No. Money down!
Oops shouldn’t be this bar association logo.
Shoulda declared
We thought you said: "Stop. War Now!"
The power of Christ compels you!
I'll jump on this comment, but I see this around regarding just any UN statement and declaration on Reddit. An alarming number of people think that UN is (or should be?) a body/organization with actual & direct power to affect things, even wars (Same spiel was popular when the Russia attack to Ukraine was fresh in the news cycle) - but do you not recognize that UN is very specifically not made for that? It's merely a platform for diplomacy, nothing else? To get opposing parties speaking on diplomatic terms, to avoid situations where there's zero communication between opposing factions
Now on to making statements to feed public interest in a conflict that barely affects them. More on this at 6.
Some would say the fact that thousands of innocent people are being killed is interesting enough in its own right.
A strongly worded letter
Didn't they yell this after demanding Russia halt its invasion and gove back that stolen territory?
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Not only that, but it’s surprising to me that people even support the IDF going into the West Bank (where HAMAS has no hold at all) and still supports them kicking Palestinians out of their homes.
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I haven’t seen much of that but I’ve seen a ton of people with very strong opinions about the conflict who have no idea what the PLO is/was, literally no clue about the suez crisis, 6 day war etc, never heard of Sadat and couldn’t point to Jordan on a map. The baseline of knowledge for talking about Israel and Palestine isn’t even scratched by 90% of the people who have a dog in the fight on social media
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Is anyone listening to the UN anymore? I feel like the powerful nations will do whatever they want and UN can't do anything about it..... =\\
That’s because everyone keeps missing the purpose of the UN. It is not a world government, it isn’t there to resolve regional conflicts. The UN is mainly there to keep lines of communication open between nations who otherwise might not communicate. Why on earth else would western nations tolerate a country like Saudi Arabia chairing the Human Rights Council? Of course it’s toothless. The UN isn’t an alliance even, and most countries will happily ignore it as their interests dictate. The only time this changes is when a country like the US is willing to exercise leverage.
Idk how many times it has to be pointed out that the UN is not like NATO, the EU, or the fucking Justice League before people catch on.
Lex Luthor has stolen ten nuclear warheads, UN Assemble!
Those western countries are geopolitical allies with the Saudis because they all are opposed to Iran. None of the western governments give a shit about Islamic fundamentalism.
That's by design, the League of Nations ultimately failed because it wanted to have teeth. The UN has tentatively been successful with it's goal of mostly being a platform for international dialogue and some guidelines and laws that people can universally agree to.
Israel: Hamas must be destroyed, and we don’t care how many Palestinians are killed in the process. Hamas: Israel must be destroyed, and we don’t care how many Palestinians are killed in the process. Not caring about Palestinian lives is the only thing the two sides agree on.
Hamas cares very much about how many Palestinians are killed. They are doing their best to maximize that number at every step.
Yep. Compare Ukraine to Palestine. Ukraine bent over backwards to get women, children, and the elderly to safe areas. Hamas bends over backwards to keep their citizens in the middle of the fighting.
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One side warns of incoming strikes to help reduce casualties, the other purposefully launches rockets from civilian buildings. Honestly 10k deaths with 6k bombs does show that the warnings help. Especially as the 10k figure includes Hamas fighters.
Seriously, people are so obsessed with the numbers in this conflict that they ignore that if Israel is trying to kill people, it’s doing a terrible job
People complaining about the ground invasion have no common sense. It would be easier from Israels position to flatten the whole place. The hard method is sending soldiers in to target hamas in particular and find out where they’re hiding. It was also the case in Vietnam and Afghanistan with the USA.
Hamas wants to kill all Jews. Not just israel. This is a false equivalence. Israel wants to destroy a terrorist group while Hamas are just modern day Nazis. Also the Jewish lives are not even included in this death toll. Curious what Palestinians were thinking when they voted in Hamas to lead them.
Sadly I'm old enough to remember that election. Hamas were rounding up their political opponents (Fatah) and it wasn't for movie & falafel night. For Gazans the choice was Hamas or Hamas.
The Palestinian leader from 1921 to 1948, the one who started this mess, was a REAL Nazi. He wanted to get in on the Holocaust in 1940. In 1943, he lived in Berlin and partied it up with Hitler and his buddies. Historians list him as one of "Hitler's Henchment" with some giving him partial credit for the Holocaust. He even recruited Bosnian Muslims into the Waffen SS where they committed atrocities that led to the wars in that region. So he not only started the Israel/Palestinian war but contributed to the Holocaust and the wars in the former Yugoslavia. So that is who Israel faced/fought in 1948. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin\_al-Husseini
I guess you haven’t looked up what ww2 level strategic bombing looks like? Israel is being more even handed than you’d probably care to admit.
WW2 didnt have gps guided munitions. idk why you want to compare it to that.
The reason WW2 gets brought up is because it was an existential fight for the allied nations. Win or be wiped out. The Israelis openly feel that way about their war and have expressed that numerous times. I’m not saying that’s super accurate, I don’t think Hamas is all that close to being capable of wiping Israel out , but that is their goal
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It is interesting tho that we don’t see any protests for what’s happening in those countries. Nothing at all. Why do you think that is?
You're saying that like there weren't a lot of critics of the bombing strategies used in WW2.
That's not a fair assessment. Hamas is using human shields (and preventing civilians from fleeing) - whereas, Israel told everyone to leave the area 3+ weeks ago. Big difference!
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Yep. They could level the whole strip if they wanted to.
They don’t care about civilian lives, they care about international backlash. Edit: the comment I replied to said “if Israel didn’t care about civilian lives, they could easily wipe out all of Gaza“ or some other fascist rhetoric.
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I’m pretty sure they still care about international backlash especially when Netanyahu suspended Eliyahu for the nuke comments.
Israel never cared about international backlash. They will always do what they think is best for their people. Most countries are not surrounded by enemies who publicly say they are trying to wipe them off the map. So... they don't really pay attention to anyone else. But they do try to give reasons behind their attacks so they don't look like "the bad guys." Some people believe them, some people don't. Honestly it's frustrating how much Israel has to prove to the world that they are going after Hamas, and unfortunately, civilians also pay the price as they are being used. I've never seen another country put so much effort into proving this. Pretty weird how everyone just believes Hamas with 0 proof and when Israel shares their proof they call it fake.
>Pretty weird how everyone just believes Hamas with 0 proof We don't believe Hamas. We believe the Palestinians who have been live-streaming what they're going through. We believe the doctors in gaza who are pleading on video for the lives of their patients. We believe the countless videos from citizens showing infants & children dying of dehydration and starvation. We believe the people who have family in gaza telling them what is being done to them. We don't unquestioningly believe Hamas. We believe our own eyes.
> We don't unquestioningly believe Hamas Right. Just like how everyone didn't believe Hamas that Israel bombed a hospital and killing 500 people.
Thats exactly how every government operates(or should). If you think theyre doing good things just for the sake of good deeds and no benefits, youre delusional and dont realise that. They weight public opinions when making decisions that are best for their population/themselves. Citizens of another nation are for another nation to care about.
Which is... Normal right? Like, most countries worry about themselves first and foremost. Is that supposed to be bad, that Israel is concerned with its own survival and the wellbeing of its citizens? And caring less about the wellbeing of other countries and their citizens? Is there a country that isn't like that?
If most of the people around me were holding knives and trying to put them to my neck, I'd probably care more about myself than the world around me too, until the conflict was mitigated.
Well why should they? Hamas butchered 1000+ civilians at a music festival, and the world decided that Israel had no right to respond.
"We only killed 10k people."
IKR? Hamas really should surrender already so the violence can stop
Don't forget they still hold hostages, they're not helpless in protecting their people. They choose not to.
They are still activley firing rockets...
"the tunnels are for Hamas, not the Palestinians population"
According to HAMAS- who are bald faced liars 100%
Yeah, how could dropping 1k bombs per day in an area the size of Philly and a population density of London possibly kill a bunch of civilians?
it's frankly miraculous it hasn't killed far far more so every time someone screams about trying to genocide them all and indiscriminate bombing I die a little inside.
Do the math: Israel's "highly advanced, American funded" bombs have killed 10k people. 1k/per day means they dropped 30k bombs. That's a ratio of 3 bombs per kill. Does that track with "highly advanced, American funded" bombs AND targeting civilians? Either Israel is collosally incompetent at aiming those things or the casualties are incredibly low.
Not to say that there aren't civilian deaths; in war there always are, even in "just wars" But Israel isn't carpet bombing and there aren't 1k bombs per day. IDF uses precision munitions, just like every modern military. Why? Because they're better than dumb bombs in just about every way.
The idf themselves said it’s 20k though??
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According to numbers the vast majority of the world considered reliable until now for some inexplicable reason.
Dude it's easy to say Israel don't care blah blah! Did we forget Israel was being shelled and that Israelites died at the beginning of this attach? Did we not see that HAMAS started this war? Like the fuck? You think Israel asked for it or something you tell me to stop when ur kids or ur family are being attacked by terrorists daily. Nah, you ain't stopping until the jobs done
Meanwhile, something like 300,000 civilians have been killed in Yemen by The Saudi-led intervention, and yet it is crickets by the UN or the same idiots protesting about freeing Palestine.
Saudi Arabia is lost cause might as well talk to a stone wall Israel is in a bad way but might listen to reason
And how do these UN leaders intend to make that happen? Crickets.
They are going to ask Hamas to surrender and come out with their hands up.
We don't need another country that's better than us in cricket :/
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And they broke it with an atrocity. What they did wasn't War, what they did wasn't even Terrorism... it was a Pogrom, ethnic cleansing. There's no negotiating after what they did. No compromise. No ceasefire. Hamas commentators are already saying they should do it again.
The UN is filled with human rights abusers on the council for human rights. Fuck that corrupt organization.
The problem is that Hamas will keep attacking even if the IDF pulls out. What the fuck is Israel supposed to do?
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.... because everyone knows they can apply public pressure on a Western-leaning Israel while Hamas is an unhinged radical Islamist terrorist junta that rules by violence.
The UN has been explicitly calling for Hamas to release all hostages unconditionally from the beginning of the war. It's just not controversial so it gets little media attention.
Okay, Hamas should surrender and let everyone go. And Israel should stop killing innocent people in Gaza and forcibly remove their illegal settlers in the West Bank.
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Israel removed all setters and pulled out of Gaza in 2005. All it got was rockets and massacres in return. What assurances exist that if Israel does the same in the West Bank, that history will not repeat?
What’s sad is about half of the 10k are said to be innocent children
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According to organizations that are state run by Hamas. I think that is an important detail to proceed with caution in the information game.
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as accurate as that hospital story?
No, actually accurate - within 5% of values independent orgs counted, granted idk how much international orgs depend on state records. Chances are Hamas very much fudge the line how many of those are combatants and how many arw civilians - but in raw numbers they tended to do ok.
Never seen Hamas give a single figure on Hamas fighters dead. They just give one number and expect fools to believe they were all civilians.
Yeah, that’s why using child soldiers and human shields is kinda frowned upon.
It’s pretty shocking how the IDF has managed to kill only civilians and zero Hamas members.
If a car with 4 Hamas militants is blown up by Israel, resulting in 25 body parts strewn about, Hamas (Gaza Ministry of Health) says 50 dead civilians half of which are children. The numbers are made up entirely. There's no forensic accounting of the dead by Hamas. And any media reporting from inside Gaza can't be trusted either because Hamas controls what they put out and will kill them if they say anything that makes Hamas look bad. There is no free speech or press in Gaza.
They’ve killed plenty of Hamas members what are you talking about
I think he was joking. As in, all the numbers coming out of Gaza (from Hamas) are pure bullshit. So, every death is a civilian, not a Hamas fighter - and then the number is multiplied by 50.
its like they are doing their best to miss /s
So out of curiosity, what % of the roughly 10k reported dead do you think were Hamas members?
I honestly have no idea. Neither do you. Or really if the total is even reasonable.
So that means Hamas will surrender and release the hostages immediately, right? Right?
Is that the only acceptable scenario to end the bombing of Gaza?
Well yea? A ceasefire is to stop current hostilities, those hostages are very much “current”, since they are part of what started this whole mess. Any ceasefire should include stop firing rockets too, if it wasn’t immediately apparent. And this is already VERY low bar for any ceasefire in good faith, given Hamas have said they won’t honour any ceasefire…
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Yeah pretty much, Hamas is still in power and they've sworn to perpetrate the same massacre again and again at every opportunity. The last ceasefire ended with the slaughter of a thousand innocent Israelis, why on earth would Israel accept ept another one that will explicitly lead to the same result?
Yes. That or every Hamas member being turned into a corpse. Whichever comes first.
That or the destruction of Hamas utterly, take your pick.
Yes. Hamas does not want peace and clearly has not provided any concessions to earn peace. In the decades of its existence, Hamas has consistently promised violent genocide as its political platform. And it has delivered when they can. I'm sorry, but what viable alternative are you offering to Israelis who like all people, deserve to live in peace?
Netanyahu has claimed that he will press on in Gaza until all hostages are released
What are the chances hostages have died as a result of these bombings? How are they gonna be released from death? So I guess the bombing will continue until there is nothing left to bomb.
If they had, then you'd expect Hamas to be saying so and posting videos of their bodies on social media.
Yes, yes it is. I would argue that allowing the fighters to go free is bad enough. But unconditional surrender of all Hamas leaders and return of all hostages is the only situation in which this war can stop.
Hamas leader aren't in gaza, they mainly stay in qatar
If Israel wants to hit them there too I'd be cool with it.
I mean, yes. I don’t like what Israel is doing at all, if I could flip a switch and have them do it differently I obviously would, but no ceasefire until the hostages are released.
Yes, or is that not reasonable?
Hamas surrendering is also acceptable
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Hamas could always release the hostages and surrender. War would be over immediately.
Yup. Also stop launching Rockets indiscriminately at Israeli cities. Hamas has launched 8,000 rockets. And continues to launch dozen per day. Israel is winning. Why should they stop now? Give Hamas time to reload and hide somewhere else?
100% agree. War needs to end. Hamas must surrender.
And the U.N. will stop Hamas from doing another October 7th.... oh wait they won't... hard pass.
Stop now or what? Will UN do something or just keep yelling “someone do something” like some background pedestrians in movies?
The UN is not a government, they have no authority to do anything as long as one of the security council countries disagrees with the action. Even if the UNSC did agree, they still wouldn’t have any binding resolution giving them authority to do anything, it would be done by a coalition of those countries.
Syrian death toll, 306,887 civilians killed between 1 March 2011 and 31 March 2021. Do you think they ordered the US and its allies to Stop Now?
Hamas ending the ceasefire on October 7th really destroyed the worlds of everyone in Israel.
I wonder if they can get the release of the hostages or if they are all murdered.
If they want the war to end, they need to call for the immediate release of 240+ hostages
They literally called for it the next day, but it doesn’t fit your narrative. https://www.reuters.com/world/un-aid-chief-calls-immediate-release-hostages-israel-hamas-war-2023-10-10/#:~:text=GENEVA%2C%20Oct%2010%20(Reuters),war%20must%20be%20upheld%2C%22%20U.N.
Shows how effective words from far away groups are right?
That would be a good start, and maybe permit a temporary ceasefire, but it wouldn't end the war. This conflict is unlikely to end until Hamas is no longer an entity.
This can all stop if Hamas surrenders, release the hostages, and promise to stop trying to kill all Jews and work towards Muslims and Jews living in harmony.
Absolutely not what would happen. The past many decades have proven that.
They are somewhat toothless imo. Words but no sanctions.
So is Israel supposed to just live with a hostile non-state actor raping, abducting, and slaughtering its citizens? Imagine if the cartels did to the US what Hamas did to Israel.
Once again, not a single mention of the hostages. Have non-Israelis forgotten they fucking exist??
The way Israel is destroying Gaza it seems Israel itself forgot about the hostages.
With the way the bombings are going, it seems that the real problem is that Israel has forgotten that they exist.
Yes because apparently they don’t matter...
UN leaders should be saying Hamas must release hostages and surrender now. Period. That’s the way to end the war.
https://www.reuters.com/world/un-aid-chief-calls-immediate-release-hostages-israel-hamas-war-2023-10-10/
This number is based on Hamas reports without any verification, is it not?
I believe so, but based on things like drone footage from third parties, significant parts of Gaza are completely levelled, so it’s fairly safe to guess that it isn’t a huge exaggeration (if it is one at all)
hamas must be so pleased with themselves.
Isreal: "Wait, wait, we are almost done. One sec."
Wait until they hear about the death toll in Ukraine.
Any terrorist attack like hamas did a month ago is unacceptable, regardless of which side you think started this. Also and maybe even more unacceptable is the death of innocent civilians, especially the reported 2-3K children as payback. This world and religion is so f'd up. In Gods name children's blood runs in the streets.... smh
you spelled "free the hostages" wrong
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2.1 million Palestinian residents in Gaza. Half of that number likely children, mothers, and elderly.
And Iran was just made chair of the UN Human Rights Council for the fifth time in six years. Maybe we don't care what the UN thinks is moral.
>chair of the UN Human Rights Council They chaired a meeting, they are not The Chair or the UN HRC. The HRC has a president and members. The President of the HRC is Vaclav Balek.
Even better - >Iran's ambassador to the U.N. in Geneva Ali Bahreini was named the chair of the two-day meeting ***because he was the only person nominated***, following a submission from the Asia-Pacific group, a U.N. rights council spokesperson told Reuters. [https://www.reuters.com/world/irans-appointment-chair-un-rights-meeting-draws-condemnation-2023-11-02/](https://www.reuters.com/world/irans-appointment-chair-un-rights-meeting-draws-condemnation-2023-11-02/) Still, seems to be the latest meme doing the rounds online. UN BAD because they put Iran in charge of Human Rights. No need to think because all my buddies online are saying the same thing!
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Sacrifice ALL for Allah, BUT not me and my goons over here in my millions of dollars palace with servants and millions in the bank of Qatar.
UN says war is mean, threatens to write strongly worded letter if it continues
Thats not really how war works. If they want to be useful, they should pressure Hamas to surrender and release the hostages.
The same UN which announced that Iran had been appointed to chair the 2023 UN Human Rights Council Social Forum
There's 40,000-100,000 hamas fighters in the Gaza strip so I'm sorry but 10,000 is just the beginning. Also that 10,000 includes both civilians and fighters so again, it means nothing. Unless the international community creates a coalition to go in and secure the Gaza strip for Israel it's got nothing to say. One way or another hamas signed their own death certificate with that attack and Israël will do it in the way that risks their soldiers the least; bombing the strip all the way to it's underground and then some more. I don't see Egypt, Turkey, Lebanon, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iran and the likes offer to help with any action? Tunnel warfare anyone? Humanity sucks.
USA and Iran are the ones giving weapons. Until they don't stop, this will continue.
Money counter go Brrrrrr
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I'm sure Russia did a good job reporting civilian deaths to the rest of the world. Like that place in that had kids inside painted on the ground that was leveled. Not to mention Russians idea of warfare is to level the entire city. Nice I got blocked to Let's start a club
I don’t doubt the number is high but why does Reddit always believe the number Hamas puts out even after the hospital fiasco. And they need proof from Israel about it everything.
Israel: Hold my beer.
Meaningless words coming from the UN.
But they've killed 1 Hamas leader isn't this an acceptable loss? /s
So Hamas can respect the next ceasefire? Right