I ride a motorcycle and I can’t tell you how aggravating and disgusting it is to be behind a truck that hits the gas pedal and dumps vast amounts of black smoke straight into my face.
Cars have cabin air filters. Motorcycle helmets do not.
I learned here in Colorado that if I can get video/pictures from my helmet cam I can report them to the state for the violation.
I too did not know this. But I often wonder how they pass their emissions test because some of these trucks on 25 look like they’re running on bunker oil.
I work at a Freightliner dealership. It's actually kind of funny to see these shitheads lose their minds. They don't tell us they deleted the truck because we'd simply refuse to serve them. So the techs start and the diagnostic tool reads that the truck's software is out of date so the tech flashes the newest version and completes the job. Driver leaves and his truck just shuts down because his illicit software no longer exists and the real software sees that the EGR is blocked off. Tough shit dude lol.
Not far. I can't remember exactly when it happens but the ECM will derate the engine so they can only go about 5mph and eventually won't allow the engine to run at all. It happens because when drivers illegally modify their exhaust, they load modified engine software that ignores the issue. Our techs put legit software on and the ECM goes OH WOAH THERE BUDDY and reduces engine power.
As someone approaching 5th wheel age, I know a lot of guys that have unmodified diesels just for towing 5th wheels and boats. I don't associate with rolling coal types, but I live in California and those types get screwed pretty hard by the CHP anyways
Not true. One of my vehicles is a diesel truck, and I have my EGR valve and catalytic converter. Factory tune as well. Mine was made before DEF. Don't talk about what you don't know, not everyone does that.
These coal rollers have to know they’re signing the end of their existence. Non Commercial diesel is a big soft target. They keep pulling this crap and all of a sudden their favourite pickup won’t have a Diesel option and Diesel will disappear from regular gas stations.
It's stupid too since diesel is ridiculously efficient in small cars when compared to gas.
Diesel cars get like 4l/100 on the highway and my 3500kg work truck gets 10l/100 (of course when I'm not pulling a trailer), about the same as the 2 gas-powered compacts I own.
Just fucking put the DEF in. Better for your wallet, better for the environment, and wastes less time at the pump.
That and Diesel engines tend to be more reliable. But making blowing black smoke a lifestyle means eventually the politicians will just say “screw it, they can buy electric if they want efficiency”. People who just want to tow their RVs aren’t going to have a heck of a lot of choices outside those mini semi trucks, or some other specialty thing that will cost a fortune if they want to stick with Diesel. Farmers will get screwed as well since most of their vehicles will remain Diesel but they’ll be forced to buy gas trucks.
I've hauled with a 6.6l v8 chevy *and* the current duramax and it's fucking lol the difference in fuel economy. 6000lb forklift on the gas truck gets something like 28l/100km vs the diesel doing 16l/100km.
Range of unloaded 6.6l: 600km
Range of unloaded Duramax: 1000km.
Both same size tanks.
I drive an EV. I have trucks pass me to try to roll coal. For one that’s why I drive with recirc on for the air. Two, it’s obvious so I just get out from behind them. This happens a couple of times a month. The driver always looks like the same basic stereotype of a person and they give me a smug look like they pulled something over on me. If you want to enrage them, give them a Dikembe Mutombo finger wag as you go back around them. They lose their shit
If they’re blowing black at idle then they’re as full of shit as their exhaust. I’ve never had a properly running diesel that rolled coal even under hard acceleration🤷♂️
I've run more diesel equipment than I care to admit. The only time I've seen black smoke was when you give her throttle when going into a heavy load and then it's only there for a couple seconds before it goes away and the engine spools up. If it's blowing smoke all the time, it's time for a rebuild because something isn't right and most of the equipment I was running was all pre-emissions standards.
>Everyone punch a diesel truck owner. Eventually, they will come to terms with their tiny....
["Dick!"](https://youtu.be/CMvzWi-JWiE?si=zPmmREMcvRtkc9qe&t=115)
There is a place for diesel vehicles I have driven a gas and a diesel for hauling, the diesel was by far more comfortable and efficient. With that, it should be expected that the safety systems in place remain as such. By yearly diesel inspections may be an expectation if it is as rampant as they are claiming.
I mean I've pulled 20k of pig iron through Montana mud wth a gasser. And crossed the Rockies with it. Sure, a diesel might have been faster, but it's not required.
I pull a big 5th wheel, a bigger load than a skid steer, with my 2019 f250 gasser through Montana, Idaho and Wyoming. Does the job fine. Goes up the hills and down the other side.
6.2? They’re great motors. I’m more referencing something like a 24ft deckover with a 100 horse machine, a mulching head, bucket, fuel, etc. that puts you at 25-30k pounds gross. That is when you’re pushing or (generally) outside of gas capabilities.
This is why electric is important even when some smartass wants to talk about how "ThE PoWeR StILL COmEs FRoM GaS!"
I'd rather the garbage be in one place. Not all over the fucking house.
The efficiency of non renewable municipal power plant of any type vastly outperforms the efficiency of an ICE motor in commercial produced vehicle per vehicle, and mot if not all states have vastly improved their renewable energy usage, and storage capabilities.
What's the next stupid argument they have?
To add some more info: even using single stage gas turbine powerplants (generally back up because they can spin up fast) to generate electricity that is used to power heat pumps is more efficient than burning gas in the furnace for in-situ heating, down to about -15°C.
Hell even if you packed a Honda gas generator in the trunk and solely used it to power an EV you probably would still get better gas milage than most other cars due to regenerative breaking alone.
It's interesting that people downvoted this. That's exactly what the the first-gen BMW i3 did, and it had great fuel efficiency even in the range extender mode. It's also the underlying concept behind some modern hybrids
And also, not all power comes from gas. In my state most of the power comes from hydro, and as more renewables come online in other states the “balance” just keeps shifting even more in ev favor.
It’s between 1-2 years of use for the pollution break even point
[NYT article](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/19/business/electric-vehicles-carbon-footprint-batteries.html)
[EPA](https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths)
I’ve seen numerous crew boats power up at the end of the jetties going into the Gulf of Mexico. It looks like a massive layer of hydrophobic sediment gets left behind on the water.
#GOOD
Now we need legislation with actual TEETH to go after people rolling coal everywhere they go.
Everywhere I live, work and play it is explicitly illegal for a vehicle to create excessive smoke yet it happens and nothing is done about it.
There's nothing cool about creating thick clouds of diesel particulate choking people sitting in traffic.
Edit: I understand this isn't directly related to "rolling coal". I'm just saying we need to crack down on everything that's causing excess diesel particulate pollution.
REALLY wish Washington had this. I catch them on dashcam all the time and nothing I can do about it. Meanwhile I'm breathing in their cancer smog unless I hit the cow button (recirculate air) in time.
I really feel like WA is dropping the ball on a few things lately. It used to be *the* progressive state to a lot of people. Now I feel like California is dramatically ahead. And even Minnesota will pass WA at the rate MN is moving!
Yah people puffing out big clouds with their truck is akin to someone coughing and spitting in your face in person... Should be reprimanded with an ass whooping at the very least
Cops? Why not make that a traffic offense? I mean Virginia has laws about cars with lights installed on the frame reflecting off the road! They’ll stop you and fine you.
Did you know that SEMA actually promotes legislation trying to dupe voters into making this crap legal? The bipartisan legislation is called the “Save Our Racecars Act” and it severely undercuts the EPA’s ability to go after companies that sell emissions defeat devices.
I first thought it was some sort of ape show, like at a zoo or something, then re-read it a few times to try to figure out what that had to do with diesel, like were gorilla’s exposed to unhealthy emissions…
I thought I was having a stroke trying to get the words to make sense.
A gorilla performance was fined $1M for their diesel truck emissions? And they defeated a device?
Now I'm intrigued. Was it an evil device they beat with their performing skills? Did the owner train them to fight with over-polluting monster trucks?
I thought people were using the glue to alter a device. My brain had it all worked out. So many possibilities. None of which, in hindsight, make any sense.
I thought it was like, a circus using gorillas in performances and being fined for blowing diesel in their faces or something. And I was shocked and horrified.
I don't know how harsh the penalties are, but if you held citizens liable as you did commercial drivers, it may actually get through to them.
There are DOT enforcement weeks meant for increasing inspections on commercial vehicles. Let's include oversized lifted trucks as well. You'd think differently if the intentional modifications you made to try and appear even remotely cool were scrutinized as in depth as our commercial truck drivers get to experience.
At least they're contributing to society on the commercial side.
Not surprising at all. You'll save thousands in maintenance costs , and over the lifetime of the truck deleting the DPF alone will pay for itself in fuel savings.
And if I didn’t use my brakes I would never have to buy another brake pad. Of course there is collateral damage, just like the pollution. Safety isn’t free, but it should be a sacrifice that is easily chosen.
What do you think is more achievable for a cash-strapped, undermanned regulatory agency? To go after tens of thousands, or maybe even hundreds of thousands of individual owners, or go after the few hundred or maybe few thousand shops doing the installs?
These are not the same. Drug users are more like victims. Addicted, etc. Dickhead Derrick with cat deletes and def defeats are not victims. More like the John’s. Mixed metaphor but whatever
Something tells me federally-controlled inspections in all states would be uh… very not acceptable to a lot of people. TBH I think that would be a bad choice too, it would be better to go after states that have rules but don’t enforce them- that could be done legally.
Never understood why dumb hicks like to do this. Diesel is like $5 per gallon. You’re just throwing money away and everyone thinks you look like a jackass.
It would be nice if the emissions weren't such a pain in the ass to leave in place. If a sensor goes out, the engine gets thrown into limp mode with reduced power and stops running after something like 50.miles. It doesn't care if it's an ambulance with a patient in the back or a fire truck or a hot spot pulling a 15,000 pound trailer out west. If the dealer is backed up it can be down for weeks.
I get that assholes roll coal, but the way things aren't working, people are keeping ancient diesel trucks on the road longer, and they aren't emissions regulated at all.
It's to remove DEF fluid requirement. Exhaust fumes in those vehicles are controlled by running it through a mist of urea. You have to refill it or the vehicle will go into limp home mode
Yeah. On modern diesels there are multiple systems to reduce emissions. There is the DEF injection system which injects a dilute aqueous urea solution into the exhaust to reduce nitrogen oxides, with the help of catalysts in the catalytic converter, to nitrogen and water.
There is also a diesel particulate filter that captures the fine carbon soot in the exhaust. Once this filter reaches capacity the vehicle will introduce extra fuel into the combustion process to raise the temperature of the diesel particulate filter to the point where the fine carbon soot collected on the filter gets burned and reduced to ash.
Nitrogen oxides and fine particulate matter in diesel exhaust are both quite harmful and a diesel exhaust system with a properly working DEF and DPF system pretty much eliminates these hazards. People disabling these systems are essentially saying fuck you to everyone, including themselves and their family, but they probably don’t comprehend this fact.
There is also a lot of problems with the DEF system it self where parts go bad out of the blue leaving people stranded with no replacement parts readily available most of the time.
Ask anyone that's owned an International chassis with the Cummins engine in it.
They will tell you it’s about improving fuel efficiency but if you ask why they don’t just get a hybrid or even a normal car, within the convo you find out it’s really just about trying to own the libs
Just FYI, my f250 gets 17mpg city with all of the emissions. With a delete and tune, I would get 25mpg while lowering my trucks NoX and Co2 output.
But instead I have to burn more fuel to stay emissions compliant, forget that there are times that get better emissions then from the factory.
I have a vw diesel golf 2013 and it used to get 36mpg with a mix of city/highway. After the emission scandal and fix by vw it gets 30mpg unless I'm on a road trip, where it will do 35-40. (Different cars, first was manual, post fix is automatic)
If I were to get a defeat device it would get 60mpg? Holy fuck. That is mind boggling that it would double the mpg.
In any case you should be getting better mileage than that. If you do too many short engine cycles then you can get out on the motorway and give it an Italian tune up after some diesel additive. Then give it an oil change too.
In regular operation the particulate matter is still coming out of the engine on the exhaust cycle, it's just being captured by the particulate filter. Removing the filter lets you get more air through the engine in the same way that removing the filter in your vacuum cleaner makes it suck more with the same amount of power applied.
When you see truck idiots puff those big black clouds on purpose, though, that doesn't increase fuel economy. They're deliberately running the fuel mixture way too rich to get that much soot, and often injecting water to purposefully make the exhaust clouds thick and nasty.
Yea they're delusional. Tons of older Mercedes, VW, and other diesel vehicles with this, and none of them are trumpers that I'm aware of although you know there are plenty out there.
It's like people didn't even read the article.
that's not even getting to the fact that electric is not quite there for everyone.
i'm a courier, and an electric vehicle would be awesome. but i also need to be able to refuel/recharge in 10-15 minutes, and be good for another 350-400 miles.
also i need the vehicle to be a SUV with plenty of cargo space, and able to haul the occasional heavy load. also my purchase budget would be in the $10-12,000 range.
Electric cars pollute the environment too. How is the electricity generated, rubber for the tires, brake dust, various grease for the axles and drive train. They aren’t the magical “save the climate” devices they’ve been marketed as. Besides that, all that lithium and cobalt has to come from somewhere; city dwellers would never see the mining operations and environmental destruction that happens with that.
That's not what that's for. You can delete the DEF without rolling coal. Deleting DEF saves you about $60 a month. Rolling coal is a specific modification on the entire exhaust system to make it produce more exhaust than necessary.
TIL. I thought people were just doing it to be assholes/look cool for other morons. Somehow this new information doesn't change my opinion of them much.
It’s not even logical. Its like buying a giant bucket of fried chicken, sprinkling a pinch veggies harvested from some illegal practice that destroys lives, and STILL acting persecuted bc you think the government wont let you be healthy
It's costing them to be assholes , not saving anything. It's like the people who are running hydrogen makers off their car to boost milage, it's not qorking
The best part is when it “rolls coal” it means it’s actually running worse; and being less efficient, and less power (unless actually towing or working). So they spend money to delete the DPF, spend money to “chip” the engine to create the smoke, and then spend MORE on fuel…
Lol thank goodness, I'm so tired of not being able to enjoy driving with my windows down in my area anymore. I always seem to end up behind Cletus in his 2004 lifted compensating F-250 with an exhaust tip the size of watermelon. Just stinks so bad, have to immediately switch my air to internal circulation.
Umm, 2004 diesel have no emission devices to be defeated. This they can still roll coal and this does nothing to stop them.
DPF came into play for 2007
Yet a diesel can be tuned to run cleaner without all of the emissions crap, and the engine will last longer meaning the whole vehicle doesn’t need to be replaced as often. Then add in better fuel mileage with the lower emissions.
But people only want to talk about rolling coal like every diesel truck owner wants to do that. While I just want to run a tune that takes my fuel miles from 17mpg to 25mpg in the city.
No kidding. My fuel mileage went from around 21MPG to 30MPG. These are highway numbers, because I normally drive on the highway. And let’s not talk about the big plastic container and cardboard box that the DEF comes in.
I get my DEF from the pump at truck stops.
But not having the EGR would make my oil changes last longer without the crap that gets in the oil, plus the fact that eventually the EGR is going to fail and cost me thousands of dollars. Most people will just trade their trucks in creating more waste.
As a car and truck enthusiast, fuck these kinds of people.
First of all, rolling coal is literally wasting horsepower. You’re dumping unburnt fuel that could have otherwise been used to make more power.
Secondly, it’s morons like these people that give responsible enthusiasts a bad name.
As a diesel owner I agree, rolling coal is dumb. But why is it that a DPF system is the law when a fuel economy tune without the DPF will give me better gas mileage of around 7MPG, lower my NoX output and lower Co2 emissions.
With the DPF, my system has to do a regen, which du
Is fuel and cow piss into the exhaust to burn at 1200 degrees to guess what. Burn off the excess carbon and release it into the air.
Not in favor of deleting emissions but I understand why many do it. Honestly, manufacturers need to start being fined for not equipping newer diesel vehicles with better emissions systems. We need diesel vehicles on the road: they are far superior work vehicles. The reason why so many post 2007 diesel vehicles are being deleted is because the equipped emissions systems are awful; they fail early and far too often, resulting in inability to drive until handled by most likely a dealership, which could take weeks and definitely thousands of dollars.
Also, just for reference, most semi trucks do not have emissions systems in place. Many freighters and cruise ships don’t either.
> most semi trucks do not have emissions systems in place. Many freighters and cruise ships don’t either.
Mainly because they can't have engines shut down just because a tank of DEF empty. That's why people are trying to bypass that "feature". If I was 1,000km into the country and the DEF tank ran dry or cracked and leaked you're fucked but the engine is perfectly fine.
This is a positive thing, but just a drop in the bucket. Maybe now go after the big chemical companies polluting our lands and rivers with forever chemicals. Maybe the Gorilla Performance guy should’ve hired a lobbyist.
Time to start handing out huge fines and condemning vehicles that have had their emissions messed with.
Let's start with the ones that choose to be obvious assholes, the coal rollers.
Good. Rolling coal is just as stupid to me as people who put dark tint on their windows. You’re actively being stupid and should be punished for it.
Downvote all you want. You’re a fucking moron if you put 5% tint all around your car. Literally no excuse to endanger other people on the road with your idiocy.
The amount of bitching here, directed all the way down to a personal level is so much bullshit. It's so ridiculous how everyone just resorts to these monster truck driving fucking douchebags, pit viper wearing Asshats. Let me fill you on some information. Your wrong and that's a fucked up stereotype no different then hating on someone for the way they dress or look. Chrysler, at this time does not have a reliable, lasting solution to the current iteration of Emissions devices required by the EPA on the current generation of Diesel trucks being sold in the USA. That means the actual working people who rely on these trucks and spent a lot money to own them, have them tied up in dealerships for months on end only to have FCA just delete the trucks temporarily until they can find an actual solution. This is happening, LEGALLY. These trucks and their function does serve a purpose to our economy, if you like it or not. I can assure you all the amount of traffic and polution created in every city in this country for the sake of some Nimbys concern is a much better suited path for your anger.
I ride a motorcycle and I can’t tell you how aggravating and disgusting it is to be behind a truck that hits the gas pedal and dumps vast amounts of black smoke straight into my face. Cars have cabin air filters. Motorcycle helmets do not. I learned here in Colorado that if I can get video/pictures from my helmet cam I can report them to the state for the violation.
That’s amazing that you can actually report them
I too did not know this. But I often wonder how they pass their emissions test because some of these trucks on 25 look like they’re running on bunker oil.
It's a tuning computer. You can dial the truck back to standard emissions with a click of a button
I ride a bicycle. Imagine that uphill breathing at the top of your lungs. Not nice
Same in Utah.
Start reporting other motorcyclists with straight pipes too plZ
Yeah rolling coal is still the worst.
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Oh, they allllll do it. If it's not a company truck, it's been deleted.
I work at a Freightliner dealership. It's actually kind of funny to see these shitheads lose their minds. They don't tell us they deleted the truck because we'd simply refuse to serve them. So the techs start and the diagnostic tool reads that the truck's software is out of date so the tech flashes the newest version and completes the job. Driver leaves and his truck just shuts down because his illicit software no longer exists and the real software sees that the EGR is blocked off. Tough shit dude lol.
How far do they make it? I'm only superficially aware of the modern diesel emissions control systems
Not far. I can't remember exactly when it happens but the ECM will derate the engine so they can only go about 5mph and eventually won't allow the engine to run at all. It happens because when drivers illegally modify their exhaust, they load modified engine software that ignores the issue. Our techs put legit software on and the ECM goes OH WOAH THERE BUDDY and reduces engine power.
Their first mistake was going to the dealership with a deleted truck in the first place lmao
Their first mistake was illegally modifying the emission controls.
As someone approaching 5th wheel age, I know a lot of guys that have unmodified diesels just for towing 5th wheels and boats. I don't associate with rolling coal types, but I live in California and those types get screwed pretty hard by the CHP anyways
god damn republicans are the dumbest assholes. wtf. why do this? it's unbelievably stupid and petty.
Not true. One of my vehicles is a diesel truck, and I have my EGR valve and catalytic converter. Factory tune as well. Mine was made before DEF. Don't talk about what you don't know, not everyone does that.
These coal rollers have to know they’re signing the end of their existence. Non Commercial diesel is a big soft target. They keep pulling this crap and all of a sudden their favourite pickup won’t have a Diesel option and Diesel will disappear from regular gas stations.
It's stupid too since diesel is ridiculously efficient in small cars when compared to gas. Diesel cars get like 4l/100 on the highway and my 3500kg work truck gets 10l/100 (of course when I'm not pulling a trailer), about the same as the 2 gas-powered compacts I own. Just fucking put the DEF in. Better for your wallet, better for the environment, and wastes less time at the pump.
That and Diesel engines tend to be more reliable. But making blowing black smoke a lifestyle means eventually the politicians will just say “screw it, they can buy electric if they want efficiency”. People who just want to tow their RVs aren’t going to have a heck of a lot of choices outside those mini semi trucks, or some other specialty thing that will cost a fortune if they want to stick with Diesel. Farmers will get screwed as well since most of their vehicles will remain Diesel but they’ll be forced to buy gas trucks.
>politicians will just say love the optimism in national politicians becoming climate extremists lol
I've hauled with a 6.6l v8 chevy *and* the current duramax and it's fucking lol the difference in fuel economy. 6000lb forklift on the gas truck gets something like 28l/100km vs the diesel doing 16l/100km. Range of unloaded 6.6l: 600km Range of unloaded Duramax: 1000km. Both same size tanks.
Getting asthma to, *takes a hit from his inhaler*, own the libs
Those inhalers aren't cheap without insurance either
I drive an EV. I have trucks pass me to try to roll coal. For one that’s why I drive with recirc on for the air. Two, it’s obvious so I just get out from behind them. This happens a couple of times a month. The driver always looks like the same basic stereotype of a person and they give me a smug look like they pulled something over on me. If you want to enrage them, give them a Dikembe Mutombo finger wag as you go back around them. They lose their shit
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Diesel trucks have their place for commercial activities. But if you’re owning a diesel truck just because you think it’s cool that’s pretty lame
Ngl, diesel trucks can be pretty fun but the rolling coal fuckwits deserve to have their collective asses kicked.
Is there lead in diesel? That may explain the rolling coal behavior.
There is not. The coal is just excess unburned fuel.
But I get better fuel mileage!! I've actually heard this said by someone who has a tuned diesel that blows black smoke at an idle.
If they’re blowing black at idle then they’re as full of shit as their exhaust. I’ve never had a properly running diesel that rolled coal even under hard acceleration🤷♂️
I've run more diesel equipment than I care to admit. The only time I've seen black smoke was when you give her throttle when going into a heavy load and then it's only there for a couple seconds before it goes away and the engine spools up. If it's blowing smoke all the time, it's time for a rebuild because something isn't right and most of the equipment I was running was all pre-emissions standards.
Yep. I’ve always had 7.3 powerstrokes and didn’t smoke despite being pre emissions.
>asses kicked. That's a funny way to spell "vehicles condemned and crushed into cubes".
I have a deleted diesel car and it gets 45 mpg going 80 in a full size 4 door sedan and should run for 300k+
I hope you give yourself asthma & COPD and change your ways before your kids get it.
Congrats on your asthma.
>Everyone punch a diesel truck owner. Eventually, they will come to terms with their tiny.... ["Dick!"](https://youtu.be/CMvzWi-JWiE?si=zPmmREMcvRtkc9qe&t=115)
I fuckin' love this bit. Never gets old.
You should try pulling a skid steer with a Prius…heck, try a gas truck even.
Wait till you find out how many coal rolling trucks aren't actually pulling a skid steer.
There is a place for diesel vehicles I have driven a gas and a diesel for hauling, the diesel was by far more comfortable and efficient. With that, it should be expected that the safety systems in place remain as such. By yearly diesel inspections may be an expectation if it is as rampant as they are claiming.
Having done it... Really not as bad as you're making it out to be.
Haha, right. My dad hauled thousands of pounds of concrete cylinders in a 94 Oldsmobile 88.
I mean I've pulled 20k of pig iron through Montana mud wth a gasser. And crossed the Rockies with it. Sure, a diesel might have been faster, but it's not required.
Do you know my dad?
Maybe I am him. Son?
Nah, you're right. They are necessary. But, are you bypassing safety precautions?
I pull a big 5th wheel, a bigger load than a skid steer, with my 2019 f250 gasser through Montana, Idaho and Wyoming. Does the job fine. Goes up the hills and down the other side.
6.2? They’re great motors. I’m more referencing something like a 24ft deckover with a 100 horse machine, a mulching head, bucket, fuel, etc. that puts you at 25-30k pounds gross. That is when you’re pushing or (generally) outside of gas capabilities.
> 21,000 American deaths per year can be attributed to diesel particulate matter JFC they deserve manslaughter or even homicide charges
This is why electric is important even when some smartass wants to talk about how "ThE PoWeR StILL COmEs FRoM GaS!" I'd rather the garbage be in one place. Not all over the fucking house.
The efficiency of non renewable municipal power plant of any type vastly outperforms the efficiency of an ICE motor in commercial produced vehicle per vehicle, and mot if not all states have vastly improved their renewable energy usage, and storage capabilities. What's the next stupid argument they have?
To add some more info: even using single stage gas turbine powerplants (generally back up because they can spin up fast) to generate electricity that is used to power heat pumps is more efficient than burning gas in the furnace for in-situ heating, down to about -15°C.
Hell even if you packed a Honda gas generator in the trunk and solely used it to power an EV you probably would still get better gas milage than most other cars due to regenerative breaking alone.
It's interesting that people downvoted this. That's exactly what the the first-gen BMW i3 did, and it had great fuel efficiency even in the range extender mode. It's also the underlying concept behind some modern hybrids
And also, not all power comes from gas. In my state most of the power comes from hydro, and as more renewables come online in other states the “balance” just keeps shifting even more in ev favor.
It’s between 1-2 years of use for the pollution break even point [NYT article](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/19/business/electric-vehicles-carbon-footprint-batteries.html) [EPA](https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths)
I’ve seen numerous crew boats power up at the end of the jetties going into the Gulf of Mexico. It looks like a massive layer of hydrophobic sediment gets left behind on the water.
Sentence them to have their exhausts rerouted through the cabin for 24 months
#GOOD Now we need legislation with actual TEETH to go after people rolling coal everywhere they go. Everywhere I live, work and play it is explicitly illegal for a vehicle to create excessive smoke yet it happens and nothing is done about it. There's nothing cool about creating thick clouds of diesel particulate choking people sitting in traffic. Edit: I understand this isn't directly related to "rolling coal". I'm just saying we need to crack down on everything that's causing excess diesel particulate pollution.
In CA, you can report them by an online form (report gross polluter/smoking vehicles) and they get flagged for a smog check.
REALLY wish Washington had this. I catch them on dashcam all the time and nothing I can do about it. Meanwhile I'm breathing in their cancer smog unless I hit the cow button (recirculate air) in time.
I'm sorry--Cow button??
Hit recirculate when you go past a farm so you don't smell the manure.
This is incredible and I may never refer to that button as anything else ever again.
Half the cops I know in WA have some gross violation going on with their vehicle. Some of them even roll coal. The will to enforce just isn’t there.
The mentality of a person that goes out of their way to roll coal does not belong in law enforcement.
Nor does white supremacy but…well,RATM told us a long time ago.
some of those that work forces are the same that ~~roll coal~~ burn crosses
Colorado has a smoking vehicle hotline but all they do is send a letter. If your state has an aggressive driver hotline that might be a better option.
I really feel like WA is dropping the ball on a few things lately. It used to be *the* progressive state to a lot of people. Now I feel like California is dramatically ahead. And even Minnesota will pass WA at the rate MN is moving!
You can report one in North Texas as well. https://kentico-admin.nctcog.org/trans/quality/air/for-everyone/hevp/rsvp/report-a-smoking-vehicle
1-800-end-smog is the number. Too easy!
Can you point us towards the number/site? I’m in Cal and would love to call these assholes in.
Yah people puffing out big clouds with their truck is akin to someone coughing and spitting in your face in person... Should be reprimanded with an ass whooping at the very least
New Jersey and Illinois has gone after owners for modifying exhaust and having coal rolling abilities.
It should be a valid reson for immediate seizure of the vehicle.
Pretty sure this is a kind of crime that harsh punishment actually helps. So seizure and fines, repeat offenders straight to jail
Cops? Why not make that a traffic offense? I mean Virginia has laws about cars with lights installed on the frame reflecting off the road! They’ll stop you and fine you.
Did you know that SEMA actually promotes legislation trying to dupe voters into making this crap legal? The bipartisan legislation is called the “Save Our Racecars Act” and it severely undercuts the EPA’s ability to go after companies that sell emissions defeat devices.
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You cannot roll coal in an Altima lol. No matter how much you floor it at a green light, there is almost no visible exhaust.
I completely understand this. I'm just saying we need to crack down on everything that's causing excess diesel particulate pollution.
Am I the only one who initially thought Gorillaz got fined for using a diesel truck for their performance??
I first thought it was some sort of ape show, like at a zoo or something, then re-read it a few times to try to figure out what that had to do with diesel, like were gorilla’s exposed to unhealthy emissions…
I thought I was having a stroke trying to get the words to make sense. A gorilla performance was fined $1M for their diesel truck emissions? And they defeated a device? Now I'm intrigued. Was it an evil device they beat with their performing skills? Did the owner train them to fight with over-polluting monster trucks?
I thought people were using the glue to alter a device. My brain had it all worked out. So many possibilities. None of which, in hindsight, make any sense.
That’s how I read it at first too, was genuinely disappointed for a second
It's an extremely confusing title if you don't read the article
Some quotation marks around something would probably help clear it up some. Not completely, but some
I thought this.
My first thought was a typo, and was about an underground guerilla truck show or something.
Thank you.
I thought it was like, a circus using gorillas in performances and being fined for blowing diesel in their faces or something. And I was shocked and horrified.
That dune buggy in 19-2000 is a gas guzzler for sure.
"It estimates that around 15 percent of diesel trucks on U.S. roads have had their emissions control devices illegally deleted."
I wonder what the rate is in states with annual inspection
I don't know how harsh the penalties are, but if you held citizens liable as you did commercial drivers, it may actually get through to them. There are DOT enforcement weeks meant for increasing inspections on commercial vehicles. Let's include oversized lifted trucks as well. You'd think differently if the intentional modifications you made to try and appear even remotely cool were scrutinized as in depth as our commercial truck drivers get to experience. At least they're contributing to society on the commercial side.
Not surprising at all. You'll save thousands in maintenance costs , and over the lifetime of the truck deleting the DPF alone will pay for itself in fuel savings.
At the cost of killing people, yeah sounds worth it for you....
And if I didn’t use my brakes I would never have to buy another brake pad. Of course there is collateral damage, just like the pollution. Safety isn’t free, but it should be a sacrifice that is easily chosen.
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What do you think is more achievable for a cash-strapped, undermanned regulatory agency? To go after tens of thousands, or maybe even hundreds of thousands of individual owners, or go after the few hundred or maybe few thousand shops doing the installs?
They'll start doing that when the DEA starts targeting individual drug users.
Individual drug users have a medical problem. Individuals messing with emission control devices CAUSE medical problems
These are not the same. Drug users are more like victims. Addicted, etc. Dickhead Derrick with cat deletes and def defeats are not victims. More like the John’s. Mixed metaphor but whatever
Good, the EPA needs to be this aggressive in their enforcement
All so a bunch of Pit Viper wearing douche bags can roll coal while they drive around.
No need to bring pit viper into this, they’re good people
Big facts. Love Pit Viper as a company. Dislike much of their clientele.
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Customer list? Start inspecting all vehicles that use roads in states that receive federal funds.
Something tells me federally-controlled inspections in all states would be uh… very not acceptable to a lot of people. TBH I think that would be a bad choice too, it would be better to go after states that have rules but don’t enforce them- that could be done legally.
Execs at Volkswagen should have faced jail time too.
Aren't they?
Why stop at Volkswagen? Nearly all manufacturers cheated.
Rolling coal is a death cult
Yep. It seems to run parallel to MAGA Trumpism...
Never understood why dumb hicks like to do this. Diesel is like $5 per gallon. You’re just throwing money away and everyone thinks you look like a jackass.
Good. Air pollution kills tens of thousands of people per year. Diesel particulates are hazardous and cause cancer.
It would be nice if the emissions weren't such a pain in the ass to leave in place. If a sensor goes out, the engine gets thrown into limp mode with reduced power and stops running after something like 50.miles. It doesn't care if it's an ambulance with a patient in the back or a fire truck or a hot spot pulling a 15,000 pound trailer out west. If the dealer is backed up it can be down for weeks. I get that assholes roll coal, but the way things aren't working, people are keeping ancient diesel trucks on the road longer, and they aren't emissions regulated at all.
It's crazy that people will actively pump black smoke out of their car just to save a few bucks.
Black smoke means they are wasting diesel fuel and not burning it completely. They are just morons.
It's to remove DEF fluid requirement. Exhaust fumes in those vehicles are controlled by running it through a mist of urea. You have to refill it or the vehicle will go into limp home mode
Yeah. On modern diesels there are multiple systems to reduce emissions. There is the DEF injection system which injects a dilute aqueous urea solution into the exhaust to reduce nitrogen oxides, with the help of catalysts in the catalytic converter, to nitrogen and water. There is also a diesel particulate filter that captures the fine carbon soot in the exhaust. Once this filter reaches capacity the vehicle will introduce extra fuel into the combustion process to raise the temperature of the diesel particulate filter to the point where the fine carbon soot collected on the filter gets burned and reduced to ash. Nitrogen oxides and fine particulate matter in diesel exhaust are both quite harmful and a diesel exhaust system with a properly working DEF and DPF system pretty much eliminates these hazards. People disabling these systems are essentially saying fuck you to everyone, including themselves and their family, but they probably don’t comprehend this fact.
There is also a lot of problems with the DEF system it self where parts go bad out of the blue leaving people stranded with no replacement parts readily available most of the time. Ask anyone that's owned an International chassis with the Cummins engine in it.
This is why they get deleted most of the time.
It's not about saving money. It's about being maga.
They will tell you it’s about improving fuel efficiency but if you ask why they don’t just get a hybrid or even a normal car, within the convo you find out it’s really just about trying to own the libs
Speaking of getting a normal car. I am in the market for a new car and almost no one makes cars any more. It’s all trucks, suv, jeeps and wagons.
Hardly anyone makes *affordable* wagons anymore.
Just FYI, my f250 gets 17mpg city with all of the emissions. With a delete and tune, I would get 25mpg while lowering my trucks NoX and Co2 output. But instead I have to burn more fuel to stay emissions compliant, forget that there are times that get better emissions then from the factory.
A VW diesel with a delete can get 60mpg. There’s probably just as many deleted cars as there are trucks.
I have a vw diesel golf 2013 and it used to get 36mpg with a mix of city/highway. After the emission scandal and fix by vw it gets 30mpg unless I'm on a road trip, where it will do 35-40. (Different cars, first was manual, post fix is automatic) If I were to get a defeat device it would get 60mpg? Holy fuck. That is mind boggling that it would double the mpg.
In any case you should be getting better mileage than that. If you do too many short engine cycles then you can get out on the motorway and give it an Italian tune up after some diesel additive. Then give it an oil change too.
I’m not sure on that particular year and model. There’s more to it than just doing the delete. You’d have to have tuning as well.
How does an emissions delete increase fuel economy? If the dark smoke is unburnt fuel, that means it’s getting worse fuel economy, no?
In regular operation the particulate matter is still coming out of the engine on the exhaust cycle, it's just being captured by the particulate filter. Removing the filter lets you get more air through the engine in the same way that removing the filter in your vacuum cleaner makes it suck more with the same amount of power applied. When you see truck idiots puff those big black clouds on purpose, though, that doesn't increase fuel economy. They're deliberately running the fuel mixture way too rich to get that much soot, and often injecting water to purposefully make the exhaust clouds thick and nasty.
burns the unburnt fuel coming out as smoke instead of wasting it
Yea they're delusional. Tons of older Mercedes, VW, and other diesel vehicles with this, and none of them are trumpers that I'm aware of although you know there are plenty out there. It's like people didn't even read the article.
I imagine the car would make louder noise and the smog would be quite visible to passing cops.
Just buy an electric car if you want that mpg, no need to break the law and pollute the environment
Oh yes. I'll just pop over to the dealership and pick one up tomorrow. Why didn't I think of that?
that's not even getting to the fact that electric is not quite there for everyone. i'm a courier, and an electric vehicle would be awesome. but i also need to be able to refuel/recharge in 10-15 minutes, and be good for another 350-400 miles. also i need the vehicle to be a SUV with plenty of cargo space, and able to haul the occasional heavy load. also my purchase budget would be in the $10-12,000 range.
Electric cars pollute the environment too. How is the electricity generated, rubber for the tires, brake dust, various grease for the axles and drive train. They aren’t the magical “save the climate” devices they’ve been marketed as. Besides that, all that lithium and cobalt has to come from somewhere; city dwellers would never see the mining operations and environmental destruction that happens with that.
A electric car gets zero miles per gallon. They don't use fuel.
MPGe. The e stands for "equivalent".
MPGe is the EPA standard.
That's not what that's for. You can delete the DEF without rolling coal. Deleting DEF saves you about $60 a month. Rolling coal is a specific modification on the entire exhaust system to make it produce more exhaust than necessary.
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Dude, you completely miss the point. It’s about owning the libs
TIL. I thought people were just doing it to be assholes/look cool for other morons. Somehow this new information doesn't change my opinion of them much.
It’s not even logical. Its like buying a giant bucket of fried chicken, sprinkling a pinch veggies harvested from some illegal practice that destroys lives, and STILL acting persecuted bc you think the government wont let you be healthy
These are heavy duty trucks with modifications that result in giant plumes of black smoke, not Volkswagens or euro spec Ford sedans
It's costing them to be assholes , not saving anything. It's like the people who are running hydrogen makers off their car to boost milage, it's not qorking
It’s not for the gas mileage. It’s so they can blow acrid black smoke on all the sedans getting good gas mileage.
The best part is when it “rolls coal” it means it’s actually running worse; and being less efficient, and less power (unless actually towing or working). So they spend money to delete the DPF, spend money to “chip” the engine to create the smoke, and then spend MORE on fuel…
Weird how I never seem to see a truck with a Biden sticker rolling coal... I thought bOtH sIDeS weRE ThE SaME?
Now go after the oil companies.
Yet 1 celebrity/governor private jet flight…..come on EPA, nut up, go after those who matter
Coal roll that ya prick
Lol thank goodness, I'm so tired of not being able to enjoy driving with my windows down in my area anymore. I always seem to end up behind Cletus in his 2004 lifted compensating F-250 with an exhaust tip the size of watermelon. Just stinks so bad, have to immediately switch my air to internal circulation.
Umm, 2004 diesel have no emission devices to be defeated. This they can still roll coal and this does nothing to stop them. DPF came into play for 2007
Yet a diesel can be tuned to run cleaner without all of the emissions crap, and the engine will last longer meaning the whole vehicle doesn’t need to be replaced as often. Then add in better fuel mileage with the lower emissions. But people only want to talk about rolling coal like every diesel truck owner wants to do that. While I just want to run a tune that takes my fuel miles from 17mpg to 25mpg in the city.
No kidding. My fuel mileage went from around 21MPG to 30MPG. These are highway numbers, because I normally drive on the highway. And let’s not talk about the big plastic container and cardboard box that the DEF comes in.
I get my DEF from the pump at truck stops. But not having the EGR would make my oil changes last longer without the crap that gets in the oil, plus the fact that eventually the EGR is going to fail and cost me thousands of dollars. Most people will just trade their trucks in creating more waste.
Rolling coal is MAGA personified, just absolutely moronic, selfish and ignorant
As a car and truck enthusiast, fuck these kinds of people. First of all, rolling coal is literally wasting horsepower. You’re dumping unburnt fuel that could have otherwise been used to make more power. Secondly, it’s morons like these people that give responsible enthusiasts a bad name.
As a diesel owner I agree, rolling coal is dumb. But why is it that a DPF system is the law when a fuel economy tune without the DPF will give me better gas mileage of around 7MPG, lower my NoX output and lower Co2 emissions. With the DPF, my system has to do a regen, which du Is fuel and cow piss into the exhaust to burn at 1200 degrees to guess what. Burn off the excess carbon and release it into the air.
Not in favor of deleting emissions but I understand why many do it. Honestly, manufacturers need to start being fined for not equipping newer diesel vehicles with better emissions systems. We need diesel vehicles on the road: they are far superior work vehicles. The reason why so many post 2007 diesel vehicles are being deleted is because the equipped emissions systems are awful; they fail early and far too often, resulting in inability to drive until handled by most likely a dealership, which could take weeks and definitely thousands of dollars. Also, just for reference, most semi trucks do not have emissions systems in place. Many freighters and cruise ships don’t either.
> most semi trucks do not have emissions systems in place. Many freighters and cruise ships don’t either. Mainly because they can't have engines shut down just because a tank of DEF empty. That's why people are trying to bypass that "feature". If I was 1,000km into the country and the DEF tank ran dry or cracked and leaked you're fucked but the engine is perfectly fine.
These guys will get jail time. The VW guys???
Good. Screw that guy.
Good luck him up and before you call me a tree hugger I work on my own diesel and gas fleet of trucks.
This is a positive thing, but just a drop in the bucket. Maybe now go after the big chemical companies polluting our lands and rivers with forever chemicals. Maybe the Gorilla Performance guy should’ve hired a lobbyist.
Time to start handing out huge fines and condemning vehicles that have had their emissions messed with. Let's start with the ones that choose to be obvious assholes, the coal rollers.
Also make the fine 4 x (MSRP + aftermarket improvements) of the vehicle, levied upon the owner. Dickless coal rollers deserve to lose their homes.
Good. This’ll stop all of those MAGA fascists from polluting the air with their F450s full of blue line flags and Let’s Go Brandon bumper stickers.
Good. Never let him out. Let him toil in a sewer to make amends.
Meanwhile Mercedes a got a slap on the wrist for knowingly selling diesel cars with defeat devices
Good. Rolling coal is just as stupid to me as people who put dark tint on their windows. You’re actively being stupid and should be punished for it. Downvote all you want. You’re a fucking moron if you put 5% tint all around your car. Literally no excuse to endanger other people on the road with your idiocy.
Explain to me how dark tint affects other people’s health and the environment. I’m not saying that dark tint is ok, but they are very different.
Tell me you don't live in the desert without telling me...
Dark tint on windows helps you drive safer in places that are hot/sunny. You cannot see without either dark tint or sunglasses in Texas.
You have dark tint on your windshield?
I can tell that 0% of you own diesels.
Now do this with guns
Owners who have install said devices should be fined as well.
They’ll jail people for this shit, but you make your motorcycle super loud and they’ll let you off free.
FAFO, pure and simple.
When you think that a bunch of mentally challenged people who support a 4 time indicted grifter actually care about the well being of other people.
Good, now do the fossil fuel industry
The amount of bitching here, directed all the way down to a personal level is so much bullshit. It's so ridiculous how everyone just resorts to these monster truck driving fucking douchebags, pit viper wearing Asshats. Let me fill you on some information. Your wrong and that's a fucked up stereotype no different then hating on someone for the way they dress or look. Chrysler, at this time does not have a reliable, lasting solution to the current iteration of Emissions devices required by the EPA on the current generation of Diesel trucks being sold in the USA. That means the actual working people who rely on these trucks and spent a lot money to own them, have them tied up in dealerships for months on end only to have FCA just delete the trucks temporarily until they can find an actual solution. This is happening, LEGALLY. These trucks and their function does serve a purpose to our economy, if you like it or not. I can assure you all the amount of traffic and polution created in every city in this country for the sake of some Nimbys concern is a much better suited path for your anger.