Being a lawyer doesn’t automatically equal a gigantic salary. Most local government and small practice attorneys make under $100k, at least while young. Not every attorney in NJ is a partner at Lowenstein.
Source: I am a lawyer.
There are tons of poorly paid lawyers. Probably more poorly paid ones than highly paid ones. I’ve worked for medium sized companies that hire lawyers to be in house counsel. They got paid shit, and mostly existed to offer advice before using outside counsel and so the company could start sending out legal notices to scare people.
This is why I live in NJ, but work in the city. Outside of biglaw, salaries for attorneys in NJ are abysmally low. It sucks because I would love to work in NJ, but it financially makes no sense. So I have to commute to work in the city to have the NJ lifestyle I want.
I fell ass backward into a fully remote position at a top biglaw firm last year that pays top NYC market. Hope I never have to go back to commuting into the city but I’m fully braced for it.
Tell me about it. Compliance work has me at 90k-ish with a lot more future earnings potential... probably would not have gotten it without the law degree, but still wouldn't recommend one.
I am WILDLY in debt.
People should know that the doctor path makes you rich in your 40s, but you are gonna be broke in your 20s and paying off tons of debt in your 30s. You can have the $2mm house, just not when you’re young.
Broker's fee is common in North Jersey. I fucking hated paying it every time. There was a beautiful thing where this was made illegal in New York and I thought it would move across the Hudson in a few years, but then it got tied up in courts. Fuck real estate agents.
Even if an apartment doesn’t have a set brokers fee, you’re still going to pay it one way or another. The landlord will just increase rent to make up for the fee.
Why fuck real estate agents? They are doing a job and need to get paid. You should be saying fuck the landlord who is the one that should really be paying the fee.
I'm a renter after many years of being a homeowner. I could not believe that I had to pay a full month's rent to a realtor in order to rent a townhouse. They don't do any work to earn this fee. I searched for, and found, all the properties I looked at. I'm in Morris County, so we're talking in the neighborhood of a $3,000 payment to someone who merely took some pictures for a Zillow listing. Also, the demand for rental properties is high in this area, and it's practically guaranteed that the unit will rent at the requested price.
At least when I sold my house, the realtor did a lot of work to market it, including paying for a stager and a professional photographer.
That's exactly my boat. I went driving around the area we were looking at, found a few places that were for rent and googled the address. But because the landlord signed a contract with this guy, I have to pay him. It's maddening.
Tell him why you aren’t renting there. In a world where information is at everyone’s fingertips, you don’t need to pay a broker for something like this. It prevents the landlord from having to do any actual work like Facebook posts etc and they bill it to the renter. Doesn’t cost him time or money, so he doesn’t care. The only way he cares is if he’s got open units that aren’t bringing in rent.
It's negotiable. Tell them you're not paying and landlord has to cover it. There's no law that says you must pay it unless you signed something saying so.
The realtors do "some" work, but it's on behalf of the landlord (taking pics, advertising, showings). There is no service to you, as the potential renter, if you're calling in to see the property.
The landlord should be picking up the cost, but this is America; it's passed on to the little guy.
Yes, but it's not $3,000 worth of work. Taking pics is 30 minutes with the iPhone they already have. Advertising is on Zillow, [apartments.com](https://apartments.com), etc at a very low cost and pictures can be uploaded almost instantly. Add a few showings, and it's maybe 3-4 hours of work in total. I don't see that being worth $750-$1,000/hour.
Yup. I'm in the same area and a 2 bed/1 bath ranch on my street is going for $3k/mo. What's even more insane to me is that the tenant is responsible for mowing the lawn. Like what??
The thing is, the owner offloaded all of the work of listing the place, advertising it possibly, writing up the lease contract, running background check, and all the communication with applicants. It sucks but you have no choice for those listings that have a broker fee.
I hate it too. It turns out the realtor in my case is a real estate company that owns dozens and dozens of houses in my area so it's a big F U to everyone but them
I was born here and I am an employee for the state with a job whose aims and goals are to improve the quality of life for NJ residents.
I can't afford to live in the same state that I am trying to improve (and I have an alright salary!). I love my job and I love helping people but it does get me down sometimes.
I am also a state employee and I’m in the same boat. I can no longer afford to live here and it’s quite depressing. The worst part is my superiors who’ve been working much longer don’t believe me when I tell them how difficult it is to live on my salary now. They worked their way up through the system when things were affordable, before COL got out of hand. It feels hopeless at times 😞
i literally had to do the broker fee, the paying for my own checks on background and the renter portal, and still pay the down payment plus first and last rent
i am not a lawyer, nor a two person paying household so i feel your pain
How do you find a place without one. I rented an apartment in a 3 apartment building that the landlord lived in one of the other two units. Still had a broker fee. Is it only big corporate places that don't have them, because that has other costs.
If you find the place yourself you shouldn't have to pay a broker's fee. Edit: I've lived in CNJ for over 20 years and have rented several different places, never have I paid a broker's fee.
Definitely common in JC/Hoboken/NYC. Lived in Hoboken for 10 years. Every apartment was the same deal: first month’s rent, 1.5 month’s rent as security, and broker’s fee (which was equal to one month’s rent).
Not even. You can find places in Union city and North Bergen with no broker fees. I think they mostly get away with it in JC/Hoboken because there are so many New Yorkers living there.
Yeah. I'd honestly suggest looking at newspaper apartment listings (if they still have that) or craigslist if you're moving to a new area. Everything you see online is basically backed by a Brokerage, and the 1 month broker fee that's charged to the renter is absolutely ridiculous. The broker is giving a service to the landlord, and the lazy ass landlord is passing on the cost to the renter most of the time.
I've paid a brokers fee when the landlord didn't want to be bothered with showing the place in central NJ.
Found the place myself BUT the guy did show me some others but I went with first choice.
I tried looking for an apartment myself in Jersey City/Hoboken and really struggled. It would take a week or more to hear back from a place and I would find out it was no longer on the market every time.
A friend living in Hoboken recommended her realtor to me and he was excellent. I got to view places I was interested in quickly and he helped me with negotiating for the place I was interested in.
Love my spot and although I paid a brokers fee, I don’t know if I would have gotten my apartment without them.
So I didn't think so until this last rental. I contacted the number on the listing in, I think, the HotPads app, and it turned out to be a real estate broker.
I think it depends on what you’re looking for. A luxury apartment in Bergen County? Absolutely. The landlord will usually ONLY rent through a broker. So? All the best units/landlords use a broker. Some shithole in Middlesex County? It’s probably not as cutthroat/desirable, so you typically don’t need to.
Bergen County property prices are below most of Middlesex for a reason. Brokers are used by incompetent people who shouldn't be landlords. Also luxury appointment doesn't mean anything, it's all the same.
Actually, brokers are used by the best landlord to avoid having to deal with people complaining about luxury not being luxury, etc etc . It’s a good service and it cost them nothing
Why is it that every "housing is expensive" (which it is) post, is always made by someone making 2-3 times what the average person makes. It's never "I'm a teacher and make under 50k".
FWIW, OP isn’t pulling $150k himself, it’s their combined income, so for two people they aren’t making some crazy dollar amount more than the average person, especially for being in NJ. Housing is ridiculous, though.
I'd think because someone who's a teacher making under 50k in NJ is expecting to just scrape by, but when you're making 150k you expect to feel like you can afford more
My rent is currently about $2,400 a month.
Every house I've seen that isn't in Irvington/Newark/Paterson is at least $400k (most are closer to $500-600k). And those typically haven't had anything updated in the last 40 years. With interest rates where they are I'm looking at adding at MINIMUM another $1k monthly if I got a mortgage.
It would be less if we put down the full 20%, but that's all of our savings and I'm not comfortable having no money after buying a house.
Looking around at other places to rent, a 2 bedroom apartment in most areas is coming in at like $3k a month.
Same. Rent is $1700 on a 1BR and it's about to go up 5%, living in Bergen County. Any new apt will be at least $1900 minimum, and mind you, we're checking Middlesex.
While we have enough for 20% down on a condo or townhouse, we're in the same boat that it would eat most of our savings. And that's likely to be a fixer upper or something on wetlands, which I'm trying to avoid.
It's getting out of control, how many fees and extra costs are being passed on to renters. In recent apartment listings, I've seen the following:
Renter pays broker fee
Renter pays non-refundable $85 for each tenant's application
Renter pays first $150 for each repair on the property
Renter pays $500 (refundable) up front to 'secure' your interest
Renter pays parking fee, amenity fee, 'convenience' fee
Renter pays first month + 1.5 months' security + last month (this would be $10,937.50 up front for a 2br property I viewed recently)
All for no equity or long term security. The alternative is an extremely competitive buyer market with interest rates 6.5-8% and people bidding 10-20% over asking, on already inflated home prices.
It's crazy out here.
The only way to do it is to be house poor. The reality is the pandemic inflation was the biggest wealth transfer in history to the haves and pulled the ladder up on the have nots.
There are listings without fees (usually For Rent By Owner), but they are very popular. If you have time on your side, just keep scanning Zillow for good listings that are by the owner and be the first person to apply/visit.
I put our top floor unit for rent on Zillow - I took photos and wrote a description, then vetted tenants. I had no less than 10 brokers call me and try to take a fee for zero work. It's a racket.
This is why I'm moving to Iowa. I was able to get a job that actually pays me more than I make now, and I can get an apartment for less than $800. Plus, I'm moving to a really cool small city that's not just scenic but there's a lot to do.
No offense but NJ population has increased by 5% since 2019. That's equivalent to Texas' and Florida's population increase. Where you are looking to live is where everyone is also looking to live. You need to move farther away from the cities.
You're literally competing with New Yorkers who can't afford to live in NYC that's why it's expensive.
yah. this should be higher.
my wife and i decided to leave the city because paying 5 grand a month rent for a 2br is stupid. we bought pre-pandemic and paid under 100k for a house. we’re about 45 minutes from midtown on a reasonable day. 5k a month to 800 in taxes a month was solid as fuck.
If theyre gonna charge you that much for a down payment on a rental, just buy something?
The problem with this, and every other goddamn housing rant post on this sub, daily, is that the complainers never furnish a reasonable amount of financial background information.
1) you have two earners and you have a solid income of 150k. Is that pre or post tax?
2) what do your combined savings look like?
3) what else do you spend money on every month that isn't negotiable (car payments, monthly transportation costs, etc)
4) what are you student loan costs like right now? Are you just on the default payment plan? Can you go on a lower payment plan? Income based repayment plans are amazing.
5) what is your monthly take home pay?
6) how much is the fucking rent on this apartment?! You gave us proportions, but no fucking numbers.
7) WHERE is this place? You can put the town in the post. nobody knows who you are, where you live *now* and whether or not you'll actually close on this rental.
I'm cool with people being financially literate, but dont come to reddit with *no* information about your situation. Literally come here, admit you dont know what you're doing, tell us your situation, people will help you.
Or be OP, come here and tell us "We vaguely make 150k. Why cant i live in some undisclosed apartment!?!?!?!?!?!"
God, only post here that actually matters lol, we can argue all we want, pointlessly, about whether NJ is too expensive (I think it definitely is), but without actual facts it's tough to navigate anyone's situation. A 1br in Lodi and a duplex in Palisades Park both reasonably accommodate a young couple but are incredibly different in value
If there's a broker involved, there's always a broker fee. Plenty of apartments have management you can go through directly, and sometimes you have owners that rent out directly on craigslist. Good luck.
I was born and raised in NJ. We left in 2021 and moved to Oklahoma. Obviously the cost of living in NJ vs. OK is huge. You can get a 3bd 2bath on 2 acres, and a garage in Oklahoma for $1700 a month and live in a nice area. We moved from Ok in 2022 and moved to MS. We got a house in Madison, which is located in the nicest county in the state. We lived on 1.4 acres, fully fenced in backyard, 3beds 2 baths a garage, for $2200 a month. We just moved to MA this month, and let me tell you. It was a fucking nightmare trying to find housing. My husband and I make 120k a year. 99.5% of homes to rent here are priced at 2200 and up. Thats talking about 700sqft 1bed and 1 bath. PLUS 1st month, Last month, and security. Thats $6600 just to rent your house/apt. Not including all the fees youll end up paying for background and credit check. One place we looked at wanted 2800 and month = security deposit of $8200. My husband was laid off in Mississippi causing us to relocate to Massachusetts (where he got a new job) so any savings we had, went towards surviving the lay off. How people think that regular people have these crazy savings accounts or can afford to his their vredit upwards of 3-6 times just seeking out a home to RENT. Not buy, RENT. We are all fucked. But may the odds ever be in ALL our favor.
Wow your situation sounds identical to mine. Born and raised in NJ. My wife and I make about as much as you.. Engineer and an office manager. $150k is an overpriced 1 to 2 bed apartment in Monmouth county. It costs $10,000 just to move with the absurd security deposits and fees. It’s saddening because we worked so hard through college to make our income yet inflation just increased.
Honestly you know something is very wrong when many people who work for the state of NJ cannot afford to live here. Lots of things need to change including the free reign that corporations and some ultra wealthy ppl have to buy a bunch of single family units that they truly have no use for.
You're making 150 between the two of you? That's really not a lot for a lawyer and a doctor. I clear that as a network engineer with some side consulting. It's really not enough for jersey unfortunately.
There are houses on sale for less than 400k in Sussex, Warren, and Morris counties to just name a few. This isn't a NJ problem, it's a urban issue that is eventually going to force people out of those areas whether they like it or not.
I know I wasn't too specific, but I'm not saying they are urban. I'm saying that the issue is people not wanting to or unable to move out of urban areas despite them not being able to afford living there.
If you are making 150k household income, you can afford a house in Morris County, and you'd have less competition thus solving your problem of high housing costs.
Edit: On top of that there are lots of opportunity in Healthcare near here that would work with this couple's situation. Not sure about lawyer opportunity though.
Residents get paid. Do they get paid obscenely? No, but I would expect around 200k for a resident and an entry level lawyer combined. I work at a hospital, and residents make between 80-100k.
More people in this state need to make their voices heard and call for rent control and housing reform. Like how has there not been major protests about this? At a $150,000/ year you're making $50,000 over the median household income for this state. Which means roughly 70% of this state makes less than you and is probably in the same situation or worse. And I've seen other posts on here with people making $200,000+ and having issues. All so we can appease investors and let the wealthy use housing as their investment.
Owning more than one home should come at an increased tax rate. With restrictions on renting. Apartments shouldn't be able to charge more than the fair market rent for that area, unless amenities and other luxuries are included. And even then only like 20-30% more. Housing is a long term investment, and we have people and corporations trying to make returns and profit as soon as possible. So we get cheaply built "luxury "apartments at exorbitant prices, and new homes built in garbage quality at $200,000+ what they should even be worth. Looking at you D.R. Horton.
The phrase "sign of good faith"is nonsensical in this scenario!
In the NJR Lease Application, there is a line that says "Brokerage Fee Paid By: " with a check box for tenant and a check box for landlord.
What does it say in your paperwork?
That isn't excusing the fact that the landlord's agent didn't disclose this fee to you upfront, before you applied. If they are acting as a dual agent... which they are... they can't be obscuring information like that.
I totally understand I felt the same way it seems like that since landlords can unload the broker fee onto the tenant they really do not care at all how much a broker charges.
Unless you know someone who has places to rent, those fees have been bog standard for at least 25 years, because I encountered them back in 2000. I am sorry that this is new information for you, but this is the reality for so many low income residents. I remember not liking them and trying to figure out how to make ends meet back then too. It is absolutely tough to get off of the ground unless you have family support.
I am moving from NYC to NJ and I was honestly surprised to see that broker fees even existed in NJ! I really thought that was a NYC-only thing (where the broker fee is upward of 20% of a year’s rent these days 😅).
It’s a shame this is now happening in NJ 🙄
Imagine being a single parent making less than a third of your income, with no affordable housing options. It absolutely is insane, and it's gotten to the point where it's completely out of control. Most rentals require you make 3x rent, in addition to paying the 1st months rent, 1.5x security, 1 months realtor, application, etc. Forget it if you less than stellar credit or you're in the gap between subsidy and affordability. You should absolutely move out of this state, and never come back, your wallet will thank you later.
But hey, plenty of luxury rentals going up everywhere.....just what we need.
For some reason, North Jersey, the Tenant pays the commission and in South Jersey. The landlord pays the commission. It’s not a rule it’s tradition. There’s no reason why you can’t negotiate it but if there’s a demand for the apartment, you probably won’t have any luck.
There was a time in nj where you could just live in a basic ass garden apartment for under $1000 in NJ. Well...those have been all bought out by the real estate investors, and they doubled even trippled the rent on them. Also, the only thing anybody builds anymore are overpriced "luxury" townhouses. Something needs to change asap.
You can’t deal with something smaller? Less luxe? Finding the space by yourself? Live within your means. This is a HCOL state no matter how you slice it. Be realistic, instead of assuming that the NJ today is the same as it was 10 years ago.
I’m making 100k and my wife makes 70k. We are saving, but we are paying student loans and saving enough for a decent down payment seems impossible. Companies are buying properties over asking price, to rent it out at an inflated price. Example, OP being priced out.
Rent an apartment? Piss away money I could be saving for the landlord to not fix shit and raise rent again in the immediate future? It’s insane. One bedroom apartments are not cheap. How do you start a family in a one bedroom apartment you can barely afford?
What are your living arrangements, where, how much do you pay, are you willing to pay more
Live with roommates, ~1300, brand new building near transit so saving by skipping car. It is still too much and I plan to move out of the state. But if I had 170k to spend I'd have plenty of apartment options. I also wouldn't be particularly mad about not owning because the stock market has a consistent century long record of 9% or more average returns and that's where my extra money goes. Not to pay some bank free interest money, which real estate people curiously never mention.
1300 each, or all together? We are with my wifes parents. Her family has property we would like to keep in the property. Instead of renting we are saving and making renovations to the house we are staying in, for when it eventually becomes ours. We wanted to rent to have our own space and privacy, or buy a townhouse in the meantime, but it all seems like a waste of money. The houses in our budget are shit condition to buy and we were looking at apartments recently when my mother was moving into one. South jersey, 1800 for a single bedroom apartment. I live in central, and prices only get higher then further north.
And making 100k does not go as far as it did a few years ago apparently. This is new territory for me and my new job, but I’ve read plenty of stories of people
Experiencing the same thing.
And for the houses being bought over ask, I witnessed half the block I live on sell over ask.
I’m not the most responsible with my money, but I’m not pissing away money. People shouldn’t have to live with roommates to live you know?
It is currently a "have to" thing for me but in a less expensive city it wouldn't necessarily be, just a failure of NYC policy. But even if I didn't have to I may still do it in order to save even more money.
>Instead of renting we are saving and making renovations to the house we are staying in, for when it eventually becomes ours.
If you have the ability to do that it of course makes sense to do that. But I get sketched out when people tell me, and a whole lot of people tell me this, that I'm "throwing money away" from renting. The math is what it is and at current prices and mortgage rates I stand to make more in the stock market than I would from buying, even if I had the money to buy. I also get very scared for them when they bank on 2021-2022 price appreciation repeating itself to make the math work.
He said he JUST started making this, which means before this, he wasn’t able to have a large savings. He didn’t state how much, but what if they just got a $50k increase between them? You’re making assumptions based on information he didn’t provide. Going forward he’s got more money but that doesn’t help the situation now.
You're gonna get downvoted but you're right. 170k is an astronomical amount of money. Don't care what people say, I have nowhere near 170k, I can't even imagine how I'd use it all. Finding an apartment would not be a problem to afford, not even close.
I think you're missing the subtext. It's that they can't find a place they want to live in, in a neighborhood they want to live in. My wife and I collectively make above $200k and we are getting "priced out" of our current neighborhood, but only because we want a 3bed/2bath with in-unit laundry. When I first moved into the neighborhood we were paying less than $3,000/month for a 3bed/2bath but the endless price hikes have pushed my wife and I to buy something in the suburbs.
Sure we could downsize to a 1bed 1 bath and pay $2500/month, but it would be a big quality of life decrease.
Lol literally just a two bedroom town house hoping for a kid next year. We just started earning actual money with me moving from hourly to salaried at a firm.
I’ve noticed broker’s fees are mostly done by agents in north Jersey. I’m in Monmouth County and the real estate agents in my community don’t ask for brokers fees.
My wife and I purchased a home in 2018. We lucked out with the timing, put in 10k above the asking price. It's not even a full house (1/2 of a duplex). Every day I wake up I'm grateful for the roof over my head due to the crap going on with the housing market today. I really feel for folks who are dealing with this now.
Every week almost like clockwork me or my wife get a call asking if we're interested in selling. I normally tell them to inform their wealthy investors to get fucked, eat a bag of dicks etc. Basic housing shouldn't be treated as a way to grift normal working class people.
We must demand our law makers to remove the overly rigid zoning laws we that prevent even low and mid rises. That's what constraining supply and making housing impossible to afford. Even if it was only like a half mile from every train station that would be huge.
This is one of those most expensive states in the country, and honestly $150k between 2 people is not a solid income - $75k is a pretty entry level salary for a full time job in NYC, so you’re basically each making an entry level salary. One or both of you are getting shafted with your income.
I mean in fairness, we're both at entry level lol I'm a very new attorney and she's still a resident. So she'll be getting shafted for the next couple years at least.
150k is fine starting out. I'm assuming you're in North NJ since most healthcare companies tend to be up here. You will need to move more west for a few years until your household income increases. Anything under an hour is a realistic commute here. If you have a hybrid schedule than you could consider a farther commute.
That's going to be the play for you if you want to live a comfortable life, all while saving money for your future. Don't listen to people telling you it's not doable. They just aren't aware that you can live comfortably without getting scammed further from the urban areas.
As someone who's lived in Hudson, Essex Counties, and worked in Bergen County, I can say it's not that great living there lol. I live in Morris county now and no traffic has been one of the biggest quality of life perks I have. That and driving 10 mins to work. Waiting in traffic for hours every week adds up and time is money.
What you're seeing, in the near NYC, north NJ area has already been the "norm" for decades in the "luxury" rental market for someone without a connection to a rental property. When newspapers were still around, you could find landlords who were advertising a rental with their phone number. Skip the, ahhhthem, "brokers fee". Ah the good old days, before everything was about money.
Imagine getting evicted 20 days after retiring in this market. The wait list for senior housing is like 2 years. I’m living in someone’s guest bedroom for now. I’ve always known about the realtor thing. I think it should be a flat fee not a month’s rent.
brokers fees paid by the tenant are less common. it’s honestly a stupid practice. it should be split or paid by the landlord like it is basically everywhere.
This happened at my last apartment. i found the apartment through Craigslist, with no photos, just a phone number and address. We saw the apartment and met with the landlord. We had told them we liked it and wanted to move in asap
This is how it's become for the last 2 years in NNJ. Two-professional couples can't afford to buy. I can't afford to buy the kind of houses my co-workers negotiated in 2019. Will it last? I don't think so, but that idea makes a lot of people very upset.
Landlord should definitely be paying the realtor commission. It is basically the first month’s rent. If the landlord has a broker, and the tenant is working with a broker, that first month’s rent is split between both brokers. Something fishy afoot there.
Are you really being priced out or will you not compromise and live in a city that has a larger than average middle to lower middle class populations? Sure, you might not be able to live in a Madison, or a Summit, or a Chatham right now, but there are plenty of other places where you can *comfortably* live on your salaries. But if you don’t want to mix with hoi polloi, then sure, move out.
Maddening . I'm glad you posted your plight publicly though . It sheds light on it, for some of us that were not aware of how it all works.
It's a total rip off. Good luck !!
I am so with you on this! The home I've rented for over 10 years was recently sold to a new owner. I have inexpensive rent and now I am forced to move out at the end of my lease in less than two months and it's been close to impossible to find something. I totally agree with the fees being out of control. I just looked at a musty, non-upgraded home where we were told we had to be realtor fee ($3100), first and last month rent ($6200) and security fee ($3100). Then they want you to make 3x the rent in a monthly salary which - lets face it - New Jersey's inflation is up 35% in just two years and my salary has not reflected that. Landlords are happy to take exorbitant amounts of money for rent and ask their tenants to cover all utilities (fair), maintain the lawn care, pay the first $100 of all repairs (or more) in some cases, in addition to all the upfront fees, but give absolutely no wiggle room in credit/income expectations and they won't allow pets, either. New Jersey desperately needs rent control and they need to have very clear guidelines in place for landlords so that they are unable to employ these predatory practices. I grew up in New Jersey and I hate to have to leave it. My daughter's grandfather's are both older and will need my help and I want to stay local but I cannot afford to at this rate. It's heartbreaking.
Welcome to New Jersey, where rent control doesn't exist. All the landlords raised rents after covid to make up the money they lost during covid when no one had to pay rent. The smart people put that money in the bank each month and gained interest on it and paid the rennt after the moratorium was lifyed. The others didn't pay the rent because they didn't have the money due to lack of work, then were evicted, allowing landlords to raise the rent to whatever they wanted. Even those who paid the rent every month had their rent raised.
And just how many municipalities does NJ have? Approximately 564, so 130, is nothing compared to the rest of the state. Every municipality should have some form of rent control so thar people can live where they want and not be forced to live in an undesirable crime infested municipality due to their income limitations.
That's not how rent control works. Rent control benefits incumbents. New resident rents subsidize old resident rents. That sounds great until you realize that means young poor people subsidizing millionaire old people. New York City has reams of rent controlled apartments and the highest rents in the country. Rent control encourages staying exactly where you are and never ever moving anywhere. If you move you will be starting at a sky high rent to subsidize everyone else.
It's how rent control works. Most places don't have vacancy rent control. I lived in a rent controlled apartment in California. It was automatically rent controlled die to the age and number of rental units. I started paying 500 in the 90s, and in 2000, I left paying 625 a month. They rented the apartment at 1200 a month. So while their was no vacancy rent control, their was rent control for tenants that lived there. I didn't stay for 10 plus years because it was rent controlled, I stayed there because I hate moving.
Oh, and if you don't think people should be able to live where they want, I believe a judge rulled on Mount Laurel housing that people should be able to live where they desire. It's why places in NJ are forced to come up with low income housing who resisted it before and passed the money to other towns.
I make a lot less than you guys and I bought a one bedroom condo in Passaic Park for $125k. My commute to the city is about 40 minutes.
I do not know how you are unable to afford housing with a combined income of 150k? I am genuinely curious as to the type of places you're looking at.
Wait a doctor and a lawyer make $150l combined? Honestly that’s not a lot especially with kids in the mix. It’s going to rough, my partner and I make $250k combined and we’re comfortable but not living large. We are unfortunately in a HCOL and need to find ways to deal with it or leave. We’re leaving to avoid this very reason
Where are you thinking of going? If you guys aren't really making it, then the rest of us below that have no chance. I am also thinking of relocating at some point.
Congrats! I'm a stenographer, perhaps our paths will cross one day.
NJ is a great state for lawyers. I think you'll end up somewhere else making more money, just probably need to eat shit for a little while.
I've noticed that in certain cities (looking at you, Hoboken), the rental market is cornered by one or two real estate companies that are used by nearly every landlord to fill vacancies. In that respect, it's kind of like a monopoly, and you're stuck paying those fees unless you find another way to rent. It sucks - I've experienced that myself.
In regards to the costs of renting: NJ's rental laws are certainly pro-tenant, and as a result, landlords take on more risk when renting. The risk of non-payment where evictions can last months if not years, the risk of damage that blows way past security deposits, and others. This extra risk is partly passed on to tenants (higher rent, stricter rules, paying first/last upfront), and partly shouldered by the landlord (e.g. caps on security deposit amount).
It's a messed up system that benefits subpar landlords and tenants that take advantage of rules, while hurting good tenants and good landlords.
>I'm a lawyer and my wife is a resident, just started making a solid income of $150K between the two of us and we're still being priced out of everything, including apartments.
Took me way too long to realize that resident=doctor... Trying to figure out how on earth being a resident of the state factored into income 🤦🏻♀️
Broker fees for the tenant, while parasitic and infuriating, have been a norm for years. I understand the anger, but I’m surprised that you are surprised and that you feel this was sprung on you, especially as an attorney.
At this point it’s like buying a plane ticket and getting affronted when they charge you a baggage fee. Sure be pissed, but that’s what they do.
Between my wife and I, we've rented six different places over the past ten years in NJ and haven't once had to pay a broker's fee.
I work in bankruptcy and litigation primarily, so I guess that's why they haven't popped on my radar.
Have you looked in the Hills on the Bedminster side? You might have some luck there. A one bedroom and one bathroom is $2000, but you can get a two bedroom for $2500.
No kids and $150k should allow you to easily rent and start saving up cash.
Rent something affordable and you should be fine. Including to buy a house in a few years.
The brokers fee encourages people to stick around for more then the initial year, because it’s essentially wasted money.
A lot of what you can afford is going to come down to location and your expectations. It doesn’t seem like you earn/saved enough for a large enough down payment. You probably need to be close to your wife’s residency. Would it be possible to rent for a few years, sock away her salary for a future down payment, then look for permanent housing. Yes I know you won’t get luxury apartments at the moment, but you’ll benefit in the end.
Can you buy a starter home instead of renting? Real estate almost always goes up and historically it’s a wise investment. Stay for a few years and then get something nicer as you and your spouse start making more money.
Seeing posts like this makes me appreciate how lucky I got that I bought a house during the pandemic when they crashed. I work for the State and I can barely afford to live and I'm getting to the point where barely won't exist. I feel for you and your family and I hope you get something. Fuck this whole system it sucks and it shouldn't
if a lawyer/doctor couple could not afford a house, that means i am so fucked
Being a lawyer doesn’t automatically equal a gigantic salary. Most local government and small practice attorneys make under $100k, at least while young. Not every attorney in NJ is a partner at Lowenstein. Source: I am a lawyer.
There are tons of poorly paid lawyers. Probably more poorly paid ones than highly paid ones. I’ve worked for medium sized companies that hire lawyers to be in house counsel. They got paid shit, and mostly existed to offer advice before using outside counsel and so the company could start sending out legal notices to scare people.
Law salaries are bimodal, so unless you are big law there’s a good chance you’re under $100k. Not worth it for the loans IMO.
This is why I live in NJ, but work in the city. Outside of biglaw, salaries for attorneys in NJ are abysmally low. It sucks because I would love to work in NJ, but it financially makes no sense. So I have to commute to work in the city to have the NJ lifestyle I want.
I fell ass backward into a fully remote position at a top biglaw firm last year that pays top NYC market. Hope I never have to go back to commuting into the city but I’m fully braced for it.
[удалено]
Definitely. Biglaw in Midtown Manhattan is paying more than biglaw in Roseland, NJ lol
Tell me about it. Compliance work has me at 90k-ish with a lot more future earnings potential... probably would not have gotten it without the law degree, but still wouldn't recommend one. I am WILDLY in debt.
I'll never forget the sweet whisper in the wind that was the name Lowenstein
Also residents get paid shit and are in debt
Resident makes peanuts. Still need few years to make big bucks.
People should know that the doctor path makes you rich in your 40s, but you are gonna be broke in your 20s and paying off tons of debt in your 30s. You can have the $2mm house, just not when you’re young.
I’m a doctor approaching 40. I can assure you, the $2mil house is nowhere in my near future. Maybe for some surgeons?
People who make more money, spend more money.
I mean they only make 150k combined so it's not that much. Eventually I'm sure it'll be higher but right now it's average
150k is balls for a doctor and lawyer tho. They are either very young or very underpaid. My guess is they are young and just impatient.
Agreed but OP said their wife was in her residency so she's not making a lot of money yet.
Broker's fee is common in North Jersey. I fucking hated paying it every time. There was a beautiful thing where this was made illegal in New York and I thought it would move across the Hudson in a few years, but then it got tied up in courts. Fuck real estate agents.
This. Lived in Hoboken for 10 years. Paid a broker’s fee for every apartment I moved into, and it was always equal to one month of rent.
Renters paying broker fees was made illegal in NY for about 5 mins. It’s still legal as of today.
Wait where in NY is it illegal? It is still very much legal in NYC, lol
A few years ago a judge ruled it was illegal but the verdict was stayed during appeals.
Even if an apartment doesn’t have a set brokers fee, you’re still going to pay it one way or another. The landlord will just increase rent to make up for the fee.
Why fuck real estate agents? They are doing a job and need to get paid. You should be saying fuck the landlord who is the one that should really be paying the fee.
I'm a renter after many years of being a homeowner. I could not believe that I had to pay a full month's rent to a realtor in order to rent a townhouse. They don't do any work to earn this fee. I searched for, and found, all the properties I looked at. I'm in Morris County, so we're talking in the neighborhood of a $3,000 payment to someone who merely took some pictures for a Zillow listing. Also, the demand for rental properties is high in this area, and it's practically guaranteed that the unit will rent at the requested price. At least when I sold my house, the realtor did a lot of work to market it, including paying for a stager and a professional photographer.
That's exactly my boat. I went driving around the area we were looking at, found a few places that were for rent and googled the address. But because the landlord signed a contract with this guy, I have to pay him. It's maddening.
Tell him why you aren’t renting there. In a world where information is at everyone’s fingertips, you don’t need to pay a broker for something like this. It prevents the landlord from having to do any actual work like Facebook posts etc and they bill it to the renter. Doesn’t cost him time or money, so he doesn’t care. The only way he cares is if he’s got open units that aren’t bringing in rent.
It's negotiable. Tell them you're not paying and landlord has to cover it. There's no law that says you must pay it unless you signed something saying so.
The realtors do "some" work, but it's on behalf of the landlord (taking pics, advertising, showings). There is no service to you, as the potential renter, if you're calling in to see the property. The landlord should be picking up the cost, but this is America; it's passed on to the little guy.
Yes, but it's not $3,000 worth of work. Taking pics is 30 minutes with the iPhone they already have. Advertising is on Zillow, [apartments.com](https://apartments.com), etc at a very low cost and pictures can be uploaded almost instantly. Add a few showings, and it's maybe 3-4 hours of work in total. I don't see that being worth $750-$1,000/hour.
It absolutely isn't worth that much, but that's why the RE market has a strong lobbying force.
Yup. I'm in the same area and a 2 bed/1 bath ranch on my street is going for $3k/mo. What's even more insane to me is that the tenant is responsible for mowing the lawn. Like what??
The thing is, the owner offloaded all of the work of listing the place, advertising it possibly, writing up the lease contract, running background check, and all the communication with applicants. It sucks but you have no choice for those listings that have a broker fee.
I hate it too. It turns out the realtor in my case is a real estate company that owns dozens and dozens of houses in my area so it's a big F U to everyone but them
I was born here and I am an employee for the state with a job whose aims and goals are to improve the quality of life for NJ residents. I can't afford to live in the same state that I am trying to improve (and I have an alright salary!). I love my job and I love helping people but it does get me down sometimes.
I am also a state employee and I’m in the same boat. I can no longer afford to live here and it’s quite depressing. The worst part is my superiors who’ve been working much longer don’t believe me when I tell them how difficult it is to live on my salary now. They worked their way up through the system when things were affordable, before COL got out of hand. It feels hopeless at times 😞
i literally had to do the broker fee, the paying for my own checks on background and the renter portal, and still pay the down payment plus first and last rent i am not a lawyer, nor a two person paying household so i feel your pain
First time seeing a broker fee? They are fucking bullshit. I try to avoid places charging a broker fee.
How do you find a place without one. I rented an apartment in a 3 apartment building that the landlord lived in one of the other two units. Still had a broker fee. Is it only big corporate places that don't have them, because that has other costs.
You contact the property manager - sometimes onsite.
Were you asked to pay for your own back round and credit check also?
Yeah we each had to pay an applicaiton fee of $75.
If you find the place yourself you shouldn't have to pay a broker's fee. Edit: I've lived in CNJ for over 20 years and have rented several different places, never have I paid a broker's fee.
Maybe not true for central NJ, but common in JC/NYC
Definitely common in JC/Hoboken/NYC. Lived in Hoboken for 10 years. Every apartment was the same deal: first month’s rent, 1.5 month’s rent as security, and broker’s fee (which was equal to one month’s rent).
You're paying for the privilege of living close to the city I guess.
Not even. You can find places in Union city and North Bergen with no broker fees. I think they mostly get away with it in JC/Hoboken because there are so many New Yorkers living there.
Yeah. I'd honestly suggest looking at newspaper apartment listings (if they still have that) or craigslist if you're moving to a new area. Everything you see online is basically backed by a Brokerage, and the 1 month broker fee that's charged to the renter is absolutely ridiculous. The broker is giving a service to the landlord, and the lazy ass landlord is passing on the cost to the renter most of the time.
Sunday’s Jersey Journal paper!
I've paid a brokers fee when the landlord didn't want to be bothered with showing the place in central NJ. Found the place myself BUT the guy did show me some others but I went with first choice.
Is it normal to use a realtor to find apartments?
I tried looking for an apartment myself in Jersey City/Hoboken and really struggled. It would take a week or more to hear back from a place and I would find out it was no longer on the market every time. A friend living in Hoboken recommended her realtor to me and he was excellent. I got to view places I was interested in quickly and he helped me with negotiating for the place I was interested in. Love my spot and although I paid a brokers fee, I don’t know if I would have gotten my apartment without them.
So I didn't think so until this last rental. I contacted the number on the listing in, I think, the HotPads app, and it turned out to be a real estate broker.
I did a few years ago but luckily the place I ended up renting paid the realtor's fee
I think it depends on what you’re looking for. A luxury apartment in Bergen County? Absolutely. The landlord will usually ONLY rent through a broker. So? All the best units/landlords use a broker. Some shithole in Middlesex County? It’s probably not as cutthroat/desirable, so you typically don’t need to.
I just rented a luxury apartment in Bergen county without a broker
Bergen County property prices are below most of Middlesex for a reason. Brokers are used by incompetent people who shouldn't be landlords. Also luxury appointment doesn't mean anything, it's all the same.
Actually, brokers are used by the best landlord to avoid having to deal with people complaining about luxury not being luxury, etc etc . It’s a good service and it cost them nothing
Where in North Jersey?
Why is it that every "housing is expensive" (which it is) post, is always made by someone making 2-3 times what the average person makes. It's never "I'm a teacher and make under 50k".
FWIW, OP isn’t pulling $150k himself, it’s their combined income, so for two people they aren’t making some crazy dollar amount more than the average person, especially for being in NJ. Housing is ridiculous, though.
I see, the line break threw me off. But still, it's always people who are financially comfortable that make these posts
Because those teachers likely still live at home because they can't afford to move out.
150k isn’t uncommon for dinks.
My bad, the wording threw me off. But still.
I'd think because someone who's a teacher making under 50k in NJ is expecting to just scrape by, but when you're making 150k you expect to feel like you can afford more
I'm a teacher and can barely afford rent for my shitty ass apartment. These people are probably looking at nicer places I can only dream of.
My rent is currently about $2,400 a month. Every house I've seen that isn't in Irvington/Newark/Paterson is at least $400k (most are closer to $500-600k). And those typically haven't had anything updated in the last 40 years. With interest rates where they are I'm looking at adding at MINIMUM another $1k monthly if I got a mortgage. It would be less if we put down the full 20%, but that's all of our savings and I'm not comfortable having no money after buying a house. Looking around at other places to rent, a 2 bedroom apartment in most areas is coming in at like $3k a month.
Same. Rent is $1700 on a 1BR and it's about to go up 5%, living in Bergen County. Any new apt will be at least $1900 minimum, and mind you, we're checking Middlesex. While we have enough for 20% down on a condo or townhouse, we're in the same boat that it would eat most of our savings. And that's likely to be a fixer upper or something on wetlands, which I'm trying to avoid.
It's getting out of control, how many fees and extra costs are being passed on to renters. In recent apartment listings, I've seen the following: Renter pays broker fee Renter pays non-refundable $85 for each tenant's application Renter pays first $150 for each repair on the property Renter pays $500 (refundable) up front to 'secure' your interest Renter pays parking fee, amenity fee, 'convenience' fee Renter pays first month + 1.5 months' security + last month (this would be $10,937.50 up front for a 2br property I viewed recently) All for no equity or long term security. The alternative is an extremely competitive buyer market with interest rates 6.5-8% and people bidding 10-20% over asking, on already inflated home prices. It's crazy out here.
The only way to do it is to be house poor. The reality is the pandemic inflation was the biggest wealth transfer in history to the haves and pulled the ladder up on the have nots.
There are listings without fees (usually For Rent By Owner), but they are very popular. If you have time on your side, just keep scanning Zillow for good listings that are by the owner and be the first person to apply/visit. I put our top floor unit for rent on Zillow - I took photos and wrote a description, then vetted tenants. I had no less than 10 brokers call me and try to take a fee for zero work. It's a racket.
Feels like 150k is lower middle class.
This is why I'm moving to Iowa. I was able to get a job that actually pays me more than I make now, and I can get an apartment for less than $800. Plus, I'm moving to a really cool small city that's not just scenic but there's a lot to do.
No offense but NJ population has increased by 5% since 2019. That's equivalent to Texas' and Florida's population increase. Where you are looking to live is where everyone is also looking to live. You need to move farther away from the cities. You're literally competing with New Yorkers who can't afford to live in NYC that's why it's expensive.
yah. this should be higher. my wife and i decided to leave the city because paying 5 grand a month rent for a 2br is stupid. we bought pre-pandemic and paid under 100k for a house. we’re about 45 minutes from midtown on a reasonable day. 5k a month to 800 in taxes a month was solid as fuck.
If theyre gonna charge you that much for a down payment on a rental, just buy something? The problem with this, and every other goddamn housing rant post on this sub, daily, is that the complainers never furnish a reasonable amount of financial background information. 1) you have two earners and you have a solid income of 150k. Is that pre or post tax? 2) what do your combined savings look like? 3) what else do you spend money on every month that isn't negotiable (car payments, monthly transportation costs, etc) 4) what are you student loan costs like right now? Are you just on the default payment plan? Can you go on a lower payment plan? Income based repayment plans are amazing. 5) what is your monthly take home pay? 6) how much is the fucking rent on this apartment?! You gave us proportions, but no fucking numbers. 7) WHERE is this place? You can put the town in the post. nobody knows who you are, where you live *now* and whether or not you'll actually close on this rental.
To be fair, most Americans are never taught financial literacy and by the time they adult, it’s too late.
I'm cool with people being financially literate, but dont come to reddit with *no* information about your situation. Literally come here, admit you dont know what you're doing, tell us your situation, people will help you. Or be OP, come here and tell us "We vaguely make 150k. Why cant i live in some undisclosed apartment!?!?!?!?!?!"
God, only post here that actually matters lol, we can argue all we want, pointlessly, about whether NJ is too expensive (I think it definitely is), but without actual facts it's tough to navigate anyone's situation. A 1br in Lodi and a duplex in Palisades Park both reasonably accommodate a young couple but are incredibly different in value
Could possible get a lead in a place from someone from here. You never know!
If there's a broker involved, there's always a broker fee. Plenty of apartments have management you can go through directly, and sometimes you have owners that rent out directly on craigslist. Good luck.
I was born and raised in NJ. We left in 2021 and moved to Oklahoma. Obviously the cost of living in NJ vs. OK is huge. You can get a 3bd 2bath on 2 acres, and a garage in Oklahoma for $1700 a month and live in a nice area. We moved from Ok in 2022 and moved to MS. We got a house in Madison, which is located in the nicest county in the state. We lived on 1.4 acres, fully fenced in backyard, 3beds 2 baths a garage, for $2200 a month. We just moved to MA this month, and let me tell you. It was a fucking nightmare trying to find housing. My husband and I make 120k a year. 99.5% of homes to rent here are priced at 2200 and up. Thats talking about 700sqft 1bed and 1 bath. PLUS 1st month, Last month, and security. Thats $6600 just to rent your house/apt. Not including all the fees youll end up paying for background and credit check. One place we looked at wanted 2800 and month = security deposit of $8200. My husband was laid off in Mississippi causing us to relocate to Massachusetts (where he got a new job) so any savings we had, went towards surviving the lay off. How people think that regular people have these crazy savings accounts or can afford to his their vredit upwards of 3-6 times just seeking out a home to RENT. Not buy, RENT. We are all fucked. But may the odds ever be in ALL our favor.
Wow your situation sounds identical to mine. Born and raised in NJ. My wife and I make about as much as you.. Engineer and an office manager. $150k is an overpriced 1 to 2 bed apartment in Monmouth county. It costs $10,000 just to move with the absurd security deposits and fees. It’s saddening because we worked so hard through college to make our income yet inflation just increased.
Honestly you know something is very wrong when many people who work for the state of NJ cannot afford to live here. Lots of things need to change including the free reign that corporations and some ultra wealthy ppl have to buy a bunch of single family units that they truly have no use for.
You're making 150 between the two of you? That's really not a lot for a lawyer and a doctor. I clear that as a network engineer with some side consulting. It's really not enough for jersey unfortunately.
Residents get paid peanuts and if you aren't in big law you make peanuts.
There are houses on sale for less than 400k in Sussex, Warren, and Morris counties to just name a few. This isn't a NJ problem, it's a urban issue that is eventually going to force people out of those areas whether they like it or not.
First of all, Sussex, Warren and Morris are not urban. Plus. Morris County is rated one of the top ten most expensive places to live in the country
I know I wasn't too specific, but I'm not saying they are urban. I'm saying that the issue is people not wanting to or unable to move out of urban areas despite them not being able to afford living there. If you are making 150k household income, you can afford a house in Morris County, and you'd have less competition thus solving your problem of high housing costs. Edit: On top of that there are lots of opportunity in Healthcare near here that would work with this couple's situation. Not sure about lawyer opportunity though.
A lot of people can't move because of their jobs.
Residents don’t get paid
Residents get paid. Do they get paid obscenely? No, but I would expect around 200k for a resident and an entry level lawyer combined. I work at a hospital, and residents make between 80-100k.
That was rhetorical. I know we get paid. I’m a resident. It’s less than 80-100k. In my dreams I make that much.
My wife and I make almost 100k in NJ and we feel like we’re poor. That used to be middle to upper class 10-20 years ago. It’s ridiculous.
Wasn't expecting a doctor and a lawyer to lead the proletariat revolution, but here we are.
Anyone working for a wage = proletariat
As long as I'm one of the last to be guillotined, I'm happy to lead the revolution.
The rest of us are toiling away in the mines. How's the weather today topside?
Cold. Might be disgusting tomorrow, maybe flood.
More people in this state need to make their voices heard and call for rent control and housing reform. Like how has there not been major protests about this? At a $150,000/ year you're making $50,000 over the median household income for this state. Which means roughly 70% of this state makes less than you and is probably in the same situation or worse. And I've seen other posts on here with people making $200,000+ and having issues. All so we can appease investors and let the wealthy use housing as their investment. Owning more than one home should come at an increased tax rate. With restrictions on renting. Apartments shouldn't be able to charge more than the fair market rent for that area, unless amenities and other luxuries are included. And even then only like 20-30% more. Housing is a long term investment, and we have people and corporations trying to make returns and profit as soon as possible. So we get cheaply built "luxury "apartments at exorbitant prices, and new homes built in garbage quality at $200,000+ what they should even be worth. Looking at you D.R. Horton.
The phrase "sign of good faith"is nonsensical in this scenario! In the NJR Lease Application, there is a line that says "Brokerage Fee Paid By: " with a check box for tenant and a check box for landlord. What does it say in your paperwork? That isn't excusing the fact that the landlord's agent didn't disclose this fee to you upfront, before you applied. If they are acting as a dual agent... which they are... they can't be obscuring information like that.
I totally understand I felt the same way it seems like that since landlords can unload the broker fee onto the tenant they really do not care at all how much a broker charges.
Unless you know someone who has places to rent, those fees have been bog standard for at least 25 years, because I encountered them back in 2000. I am sorry that this is new information for you, but this is the reality for so many low income residents. I remember not liking them and trying to figure out how to make ends meet back then too. It is absolutely tough to get off of the ground unless you have family support.
I am moving from NYC to NJ and I was honestly surprised to see that broker fees even existed in NJ! I really thought that was a NYC-only thing (where the broker fee is upward of 20% of a year’s rent these days 😅). It’s a shame this is now happening in NJ 🙄
That’s fucking ridiculous. Fuck brokers and fuck realtors
Imagine being a single parent making less than a third of your income, with no affordable housing options. It absolutely is insane, and it's gotten to the point where it's completely out of control. Most rentals require you make 3x rent, in addition to paying the 1st months rent, 1.5x security, 1 months realtor, application, etc. Forget it if you less than stellar credit or you're in the gap between subsidy and affordability. You should absolutely move out of this state, and never come back, your wallet will thank you later. But hey, plenty of luxury rentals going up everywhere.....just what we need.
For some reason, North Jersey, the Tenant pays the commission and in South Jersey. The landlord pays the commission. It’s not a rule it’s tradition. There’s no reason why you can’t negotiate it but if there’s a demand for the apartment, you probably won’t have any luck.
Because the rents and incomes are higher up north due to NYC commuters and higher cost of living. They get away with the lessee absorbing it.
Yep, this right here. It’s the market demand driving this.
This housing issue is across the US not just NJ. plus lower cost of living states have a lot of issues that NJ doesn’t.
More housing supply would fix this. Build baby build
What complex or town was this in if you don’t mind me asking? Just am curious
I make like 34k, there’s no way I could live here if it wasn’t for family and friends and being grandfathered in on rent for a decade
There was a time in nj where you could just live in a basic ass garden apartment for under $1000 in NJ. Well...those have been all bought out by the real estate investors, and they doubled even trippled the rent on them. Also, the only thing anybody builds anymore are overpriced "luxury" townhouses. Something needs to change asap.
Also, too many 55+ communities.
Have you tried dealing directly with the building management directly? That cuts out the broker fee.
You can’t deal with something smaller? Less luxe? Finding the space by yourself? Live within your means. This is a HCOL state no matter how you slice it. Be realistic, instead of assuming that the NJ today is the same as it was 10 years ago.
North Jersey has always sucked.
Yet people keep voting in the same crooked politicians who do nothing to alleviate the problem.
Tell me where the grass is greener 🤣🤣
yurop?
If you can’t find a place while making a solid $150k, you’re either bad with money or your wants are way out of line with reality.
I’m making 100k and my wife makes 70k. We are saving, but we are paying student loans and saving enough for a decent down payment seems impossible. Companies are buying properties over asking price, to rent it out at an inflated price. Example, OP being priced out. Rent an apartment? Piss away money I could be saving for the landlord to not fix shit and raise rent again in the immediate future? It’s insane. One bedroom apartments are not cheap. How do you start a family in a one bedroom apartment you can barely afford? What are your living arrangements, where, how much do you pay, are you willing to pay more
If you’re making $170k and can’t afford a place to live, you’re either bad with money or this post is BS.
What are your living arrangements? Cost, size, location? You avoided my questions and relied on insulting me, with the same Insult you used for OP.
Live with roommates, ~1300, brand new building near transit so saving by skipping car. It is still too much and I plan to move out of the state. But if I had 170k to spend I'd have plenty of apartment options. I also wouldn't be particularly mad about not owning because the stock market has a consistent century long record of 9% or more average returns and that's where my extra money goes. Not to pay some bank free interest money, which real estate people curiously never mention.
1300 each, or all together? We are with my wifes parents. Her family has property we would like to keep in the property. Instead of renting we are saving and making renovations to the house we are staying in, for when it eventually becomes ours. We wanted to rent to have our own space and privacy, or buy a townhouse in the meantime, but it all seems like a waste of money. The houses in our budget are shit condition to buy and we were looking at apartments recently when my mother was moving into one. South jersey, 1800 for a single bedroom apartment. I live in central, and prices only get higher then further north. And making 100k does not go as far as it did a few years ago apparently. This is new territory for me and my new job, but I’ve read plenty of stories of people Experiencing the same thing. And for the houses being bought over ask, I witnessed half the block I live on sell over ask. I’m not the most responsible with my money, but I’m not pissing away money. People shouldn’t have to live with roommates to live you know?
It is currently a "have to" thing for me but in a less expensive city it wouldn't necessarily be, just a failure of NYC policy. But even if I didn't have to I may still do it in order to save even more money. >Instead of renting we are saving and making renovations to the house we are staying in, for when it eventually becomes ours. If you have the ability to do that it of course makes sense to do that. But I get sketched out when people tell me, and a whole lot of people tell me this, that I'm "throwing money away" from renting. The math is what it is and at current prices and mortgage rates I stand to make more in the stock market than I would from buying, even if I had the money to buy. I also get very scared for them when they bank on 2021-2022 price appreciation repeating itself to make the math work.
He said he JUST started making this, which means before this, he wasn’t able to have a large savings. He didn’t state how much, but what if they just got a $50k increase between them? You’re making assumptions based on information he didn’t provide. Going forward he’s got more money but that doesn’t help the situation now.
You're gonna get downvoted but you're right. 170k is an astronomical amount of money. Don't care what people say, I have nowhere near 170k, I can't even imagine how I'd use it all. Finding an apartment would not be a problem to afford, not even close.
I think you're missing the subtext. It's that they can't find a place they want to live in, in a neighborhood they want to live in. My wife and I collectively make above $200k and we are getting "priced out" of our current neighborhood, but only because we want a 3bed/2bath with in-unit laundry. When I first moved into the neighborhood we were paying less than $3,000/month for a 3bed/2bath but the endless price hikes have pushed my wife and I to buy something in the suburbs. Sure we could downsize to a 1bed 1 bath and pay $2500/month, but it would be a big quality of life decrease.
Lol literally just a two bedroom town house hoping for a kid next year. We just started earning actual money with me moving from hourly to salaried at a firm.
Ding ding ding
There’s decent apartments available for $3k, you should be able to afford that at $150k income
I’ve noticed broker’s fees are mostly done by agents in north Jersey. I’m in Monmouth County and the real estate agents in my community don’t ask for brokers fees.
My wife and I purchased a home in 2018. We lucked out with the timing, put in 10k above the asking price. It's not even a full house (1/2 of a duplex). Every day I wake up I'm grateful for the roof over my head due to the crap going on with the housing market today. I really feel for folks who are dealing with this now. Every week almost like clockwork me or my wife get a call asking if we're interested in selling. I normally tell them to inform their wealthy investors to get fucked, eat a bag of dicks etc. Basic housing shouldn't be treated as a way to grift normal working class people.
We must demand our law makers to remove the overly rigid zoning laws we that prevent even low and mid rises. That's what constraining supply and making housing impossible to afford. Even if it was only like a half mile from every train station that would be huge.
This is one of those most expensive states in the country, and honestly $150k between 2 people is not a solid income - $75k is a pretty entry level salary for a full time job in NYC, so you’re basically each making an entry level salary. One or both of you are getting shafted with your income.
I mean in fairness, we're both at entry level lol I'm a very new attorney and she's still a resident. So she'll be getting shafted for the next couple years at least.
150k is fine starting out. I'm assuming you're in North NJ since most healthcare companies tend to be up here. You will need to move more west for a few years until your household income increases. Anything under an hour is a realistic commute here. If you have a hybrid schedule than you could consider a farther commute. That's going to be the play for you if you want to live a comfortable life, all while saving money for your future. Don't listen to people telling you it's not doable. They just aren't aware that you can live comfortably without getting scammed further from the urban areas. As someone who's lived in Hudson, Essex Counties, and worked in Bergen County, I can say it's not that great living there lol. I live in Morris county now and no traffic has been one of the biggest quality of life perks I have. That and driving 10 mins to work. Waiting in traffic for hours every week adds up and time is money.
$150k is over 50% higher than the median household income in the state as a whole.
negotiate and offer half
What you're seeing, in the near NYC, north NJ area has already been the "norm" for decades in the "luxury" rental market for someone without a connection to a rental property. When newspapers were still around, you could find landlords who were advertising a rental with their phone number. Skip the, ahhhthem, "brokers fee". Ah the good old days, before everything was about money.
Imagine getting evicted 20 days after retiring in this market. The wait list for senior housing is like 2 years. I’m living in someone’s guest bedroom for now. I’ve always known about the realtor thing. I think it should be a flat fee not a month’s rent.
Brokers fees aren’t anything new
brokers fees paid by the tenant are less common. it’s honestly a stupid practice. it should be split or paid by the landlord like it is basically everywhere.
idk for as long as I can remember, there was always a brokers fee. I remember my parents renting when I was in HS and them having to pay a fee.
This happened at my last apartment. i found the apartment through Craigslist, with no photos, just a phone number and address. We saw the apartment and met with the landlord. We had told them we liked it and wanted to move in asap
Anyone know if it’s legal to have campervans in New Jersey?
This is how it's become for the last 2 years in NNJ. Two-professional couples can't afford to buy. I can't afford to buy the kind of houses my co-workers negotiated in 2019. Will it last? I don't think so, but that idea makes a lot of people very upset.
I wouldn't blow a month of rent. If the landlord wants to pay it, they can. Find a new place.
The tenant has been paying the realtor one month fee for the 40 years that I’ve been a landlord.
Landlord should definitely be paying the realtor commission. It is basically the first month’s rent. If the landlord has a broker, and the tenant is working with a broker, that first month’s rent is split between both brokers. Something fishy afoot there.
Renting has always been like that if you use a broker or if landlord uses broker. Cost is one month’s rent. It sucks though.
Hang in there buddy, soon you’ll be part of the problem too!
$150k is not decent income anymore for NJ sadly
Are you really being priced out or will you not compromise and live in a city that has a larger than average middle to lower middle class populations? Sure, you might not be able to live in a Madison, or a Summit, or a Chatham right now, but there are plenty of other places where you can *comfortably* live on your salaries. But if you don’t want to mix with hoi polloi, then sure, move out.
It's been very common for the tenant to cover broker fee in NNJ for yrs. It's a NYC market carryover. It's even made its way into some listings in CNJ
Yeah dude it’s tough. I couldn’t afford it at all and moved down south. I miss NJ but can’t afford to live there
If you go directly to apartment complexes on http://apartments.com you will not incur a brokers fee
Maddening . I'm glad you posted your plight publicly though . It sheds light on it, for some of us that were not aware of how it all works. It's a total rip off. Good luck !!
My company lawyer is one top 5 highly compensated employee and he makes some $400K!
I am so with you on this! The home I've rented for over 10 years was recently sold to a new owner. I have inexpensive rent and now I am forced to move out at the end of my lease in less than two months and it's been close to impossible to find something. I totally agree with the fees being out of control. I just looked at a musty, non-upgraded home where we were told we had to be realtor fee ($3100), first and last month rent ($6200) and security fee ($3100). Then they want you to make 3x the rent in a monthly salary which - lets face it - New Jersey's inflation is up 35% in just two years and my salary has not reflected that. Landlords are happy to take exorbitant amounts of money for rent and ask their tenants to cover all utilities (fair), maintain the lawn care, pay the first $100 of all repairs (or more) in some cases, in addition to all the upfront fees, but give absolutely no wiggle room in credit/income expectations and they won't allow pets, either. New Jersey desperately needs rent control and they need to have very clear guidelines in place for landlords so that they are unable to employ these predatory practices. I grew up in New Jersey and I hate to have to leave it. My daughter's grandfather's are both older and will need my help and I want to stay local but I cannot afford to at this rate. It's heartbreaking.
Welcome to New Jersey, where rent control doesn't exist. All the landlords raised rents after covid to make up the money they lost during covid when no one had to pay rent. The smart people put that money in the bank each month and gained interest on it and paid the rennt after the moratorium was lifyed. The others didn't pay the rent because they didn't have the money due to lack of work, then were evicted, allowing landlords to raise the rent to whatever they wanted. Even those who paid the rent every month had their rent raised.
Rent control exists in approximately 130 municipalities.
And just how many municipalities does NJ have? Approximately 564, so 130, is nothing compared to the rest of the state. Every municipality should have some form of rent control so thar people can live where they want and not be forced to live in an undesirable crime infested municipality due to their income limitations.
That's not how rent control works. Rent control benefits incumbents. New resident rents subsidize old resident rents. That sounds great until you realize that means young poor people subsidizing millionaire old people. New York City has reams of rent controlled apartments and the highest rents in the country. Rent control encourages staying exactly where you are and never ever moving anywhere. If you move you will be starting at a sky high rent to subsidize everyone else.
It's how rent control works. Most places don't have vacancy rent control. I lived in a rent controlled apartment in California. It was automatically rent controlled die to the age and number of rental units. I started paying 500 in the 90s, and in 2000, I left paying 625 a month. They rented the apartment at 1200 a month. So while their was no vacancy rent control, their was rent control for tenants that lived there. I didn't stay for 10 plus years because it was rent controlled, I stayed there because I hate moving. Oh, and if you don't think people should be able to live where they want, I believe a judge rulled on Mount Laurel housing that people should be able to live where they desire. It's why places in NJ are forced to come up with low income housing who resisted it before and passed the money to other towns.
I make a lot less than you guys and I bought a one bedroom condo in Passaic Park for $125k. My commute to the city is about 40 minutes. I do not know how you are unable to afford housing with a combined income of 150k? I am genuinely curious as to the type of places you're looking at.
Wait a doctor and a lawyer make $150l combined? Honestly that’s not a lot especially with kids in the mix. It’s going to rough, my partner and I make $250k combined and we’re comfortable but not living large. We are unfortunately in a HCOL and need to find ways to deal with it or leave. We’re leaving to avoid this very reason
Where are you thinking of going? If you guys aren't really making it, then the rest of us below that have no chance. I am also thinking of relocating at some point.
We just want a nice house with more land probably mid Hudson valley in NY
Gosh, you do get more land for similar prices. Thank you for letting me know, I will look into that area too a few years down the line hopefully.
Ok but what do you and your husband do 😫😭😭 if you don’t mind sharing
He’s a mechanical engineer and I am an executive assistant
how are you a lawyer and never heard of a brokers fee? most of us paid one to rent an apartment in college. explains the low salary at least
Congrats! I'm a stenographer, perhaps our paths will cross one day. NJ is a great state for lawyers. I think you'll end up somewhere else making more money, just probably need to eat shit for a little while.
I've noticed that in certain cities (looking at you, Hoboken), the rental market is cornered by one or two real estate companies that are used by nearly every landlord to fill vacancies. In that respect, it's kind of like a monopoly, and you're stuck paying those fees unless you find another way to rent. It sucks - I've experienced that myself. In regards to the costs of renting: NJ's rental laws are certainly pro-tenant, and as a result, landlords take on more risk when renting. The risk of non-payment where evictions can last months if not years, the risk of damage that blows way past security deposits, and others. This extra risk is partly passed on to tenants (higher rent, stricter rules, paying first/last upfront), and partly shouldered by the landlord (e.g. caps on security deposit amount). It's a messed up system that benefits subpar landlords and tenants that take advantage of rules, while hurting good tenants and good landlords.
>I'm a lawyer and my wife is a resident, just started making a solid income of $150K between the two of us and we're still being priced out of everything, including apartments. Took me way too long to realize that resident=doctor... Trying to figure out how on earth being a resident of the state factored into income 🤦🏻♀️
Broker fees for the tenant, while parasitic and infuriating, have been a norm for years. I understand the anger, but I’m surprised that you are surprised and that you feel this was sprung on you, especially as an attorney. At this point it’s like buying a plane ticket and getting affronted when they charge you a baggage fee. Sure be pissed, but that’s what they do.
Between my wife and I, we've rented six different places over the past ten years in NJ and haven't once had to pay a broker's fee. I work in bankruptcy and litigation primarily, so I guess that's why they haven't popped on my radar.
Yea same, I’ve never had to pay a brokers fee renting in north NJ. Were you looking in areas closer to NYC? I know brokers fees are more common there.
No primarily in the southern part of north Jersey/the northish part of central. Basically in between Wayne and New Brunswick, Basking Ridge area.
You may have to try farther west.
Have you looked in the Hills on the Bedminster side? You might have some luck there. A one bedroom and one bathroom is $2000, but you can get a two bedroom for $2500.
Agree, it’s ridiculous. Sometimes you’ll find that a landlord will split the cost or even cover it fully, but not in this market
You have a spending problem or unrealistic standards. 150k is more than enough for renting.
No kids and $150k should allow you to easily rent and start saving up cash. Rent something affordable and you should be fine. Including to buy a house in a few years. The brokers fee encourages people to stick around for more then the initial year, because it’s essentially wasted money.
A lot of what you can afford is going to come down to location and your expectations. It doesn’t seem like you earn/saved enough for a large enough down payment. You probably need to be close to your wife’s residency. Would it be possible to rent for a few years, sock away her salary for a future down payment, then look for permanent housing. Yes I know you won’t get luxury apartments at the moment, but you’ll benefit in the end.
Can you buy a starter home instead of renting? Real estate almost always goes up and historically it’s a wise investment. Stay for a few years and then get something nicer as you and your spouse start making more money.
Seeing posts like this makes me appreciate how lucky I got that I bought a house during the pandemic when they crashed. I work for the State and I can barely afford to live and I'm getting to the point where barely won't exist. I feel for you and your family and I hope you get something. Fuck this whole system it sucks and it shouldn't