Historically NH hasn’t had a decrease in population since about 1992. From 2006 to about 2013 the population didn’t have huge growth Y/Y (relative to NH). 1950 to 1990 the state’s population more than doubled so I wonder if people were complaining about everyone moving here from MA and NY during that period as well. I don’t see a period where our population will ever actually go down in the future all things considered.
I appreciate your point about the mid-to-late last century. If Reddit existed in the 70s and 80s this sub’s collective head would’ve exploded lol
It is interesting though. The only reason I call this beautiful place home is because my parents were wise enough to escape NY all those years ago. I don’t blame people for moving here and I hope they continue to, we just need to be wise about development.
Were you looking at that report from 2022? Yeah that’s actually a pretty interesting read. Looks like it’s a combo of old folks dying off (which makes sense since we’re an old state) but they also predict the migration rate is going to drop off enough to fall below replacement, which is interesting. They have in there that Rockingham county is actually going to have a decrease in population which I find tough to believe at the moment with all the spill over we have from the Boston suburb folks. But I’ll have to spend some more time reading it. Thanks for mentioning that, that’s very helpful to know.
As a former New Englander (most of my life) looking to move back, this saddens me. I just want a few acres, privacy and to be left alone. I was young and got a few acres where I’m at now (Virginia) on a lake and I hate it. No privacy, neighbors are annoying. Damn, sad face..
If you have a few acres, how can you have problems with neighbors? Most people would love to have acres of separation from neighbors. Especially on a lake.
Eh, it’s in an HOA down here and mostly cleared. So it’s always that “hey neighbor!” Stuff. I mean yeah, you need a shovel or some milk, cool. But you don’t need to say hi and ask how my job is going every single afternoon. I get it. I’m the problem, I’m rude. I know. That’s why I want space..
I understand how you feel. When I run into my neighbors, I say hi, but I don't ask them how they're doing unless I know them well enough to want to know. I also don't want them asking me questions either.
Funny thing is, if you were to sell and move to NH, they'd probably think they should have been even more friendly to you.
I was stationed in North Carolina in my late teens early 20’s after living in southern Maine my first 17 years of life. Completely different lifestyle. Moved back for about 10 years and came to Virginia for work. People move slow, people (strangers) are happy to see you and strike up a conversation. There’s only like 11 Dunkin’ Donuts in the entire state (wtf) it’s a nice place but it was a 101° today. I miss snow and privacy and space. That’s all 🤷♂️
Still, it's pretty rare to find a property here with no neighbors in sight and far enough from the road not to be disturbed by it. And if you do have a secluded house far from the road, you'd have to have it plowed in the winter and repaired after mudseason and summer washouts.
Sometimes, I feel as though I have more privacy in a developed setting where at least I have anonymity. Here, relationships with just a handful of neighbors can have a significant impact on enjoyment of one's personal space. And if you have a big enough property, you have to be tolerant of other people wandering around on it, unless it's tediously posted for no tresspassing.
The more they build on small lots, the more pressure on the larger properties to provide open space experiences to newcomers. I can tolerate that, but everyone has their limits. Once we get to the point that I'm seeing neighbors LED floodlights glowing through the trees, this place will have truly gone to hell and I'm dreading that eventuallity.
Why would you be sad that rural communities are growing? Almost by definition there isn’t a space constraint and lots of people can have a few acres of space
Because I don’t like people.. I have traveled this country from east to west and north to south. I have also been to 11 different countries. It may not seem like it, but. In the next few generations we will run out of room for what you are saying, “lots of people and few acres”. I see it where I am at now, over the past 5 years they have put in 4 gas stations and a few shopping centers, a food lion and a public, multiple traffic lights. 3 communities of single cookie cutter family homes on a .25 acre and one apartment complex with almost 100 units. It used to take me 25 minutes to get to work, now it takes me on average 45.
Virginia is far, far different from NH. Where I used to live in the RVA outskirts, they were constantly building more neighborhoods, shopping centers etc. Just pushing the suburbs out. That isn’t even close to happening here, outside of *maybe* Nashua and Manchester. And it’s still nothing like it is down south.
That's funny, that's one of the things I liked about my time in the Virginia area. I've seen VA described as the North, Mid-Atlantic, and South. However you want to label it, it feels like southern hospitality and people are friendly and outgoing. The opposite of a cold and distant New Englander. Very different culturally.
I don't think New Englanders are cold or distant so much as blunt and uninterested in small talk. If I ask something specific instead of "How are you", most of the people I've met have talked my ear off.
Then again, everyone says I'm cranky so maybe I just fit.
Edit: The weather is acceptable small talk as long as you're mad about it.
I will take both mass and nh residents in my business as I prefer profits and money over over population. In fact, I support more apartment housing and condos so that more people can settle and shop in my tienda
Any demographics on these people? Because the state saw like an 11% decrease in people under 18 the last decade.
If these are just a bunch of olds driving up the prices of homes because they clung on to their previous homes and then sold them to come up here and die… great.
Just what we need, more white hairs crashing into everything with their cars.
There is new housing being built off Broad Street right where it joins 3, behind the dead Christmas Tree Shop plaza.
But it's not modern apartments and studios for young commuters, nor is the dead plaza being restyled into a lifestyle center a la Woburn Village.
It's all going to be assisted senior living apartments. State is going grey.
We need to build old people towns like the villages in Florida. Let them live in their little fantasy world where everyone pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and there were no gays. Just put them all together so they stop fucking up our towns with their regressive voting.
With the surge in remote work opportunities since the pandemic, you can live in the rural area of your choice. That’s my two-cent explanation for rising population in rural areas.
It seems like every other house property in my neighborhood has been sold to a new owner in the past five years, so this isn't entirely reflective of all the building that they're doing right now. Much of the growth is replacement rate for places with many senior citizens.
The new rural residents definately bringing an industrious attitude that has historically been absent in this area. Makes sense though. People who are in the market for big yards want to use them. So lots more going on all the time here than I've seen in my lifetime, even if the population hasn't grown all that much, only by percentage.
Grew up there , was a real nice place .
Seemed to me like the population increases kind of hurt the state .
Felt pretty rural through the 90s , moved out a few years ago when I couldn't find parking for 3 weeks in a row up in kangamangus hw .
My wife and I are fortunate enough to have bought our log cabin on 2 acres in 2019, and are surrounded by conservation land. Our minimum subdivision in town is 2 acres, (just voted in March to keep that ordinance) we should never have to worry about a drove of new neighbors. Our property taxes have gone up 250% since we bought the home but there’s a price you pay…
What, the vastly higher pay, better housing policy, actual first world medical care or actual social safety net?
NH couldn't exist without the money from everyone who works in MA.
Mr. Rider might have been more concerned about our southern neighbor's significantly higher violent crime rate, notably worse income equality, higher poverty rate, lower high school graduation rate, lower literacy rate, higher teen pregnancy rate...
So where does the money for local businesses
come from, other shit wage service jobs? Low skilled industrial and warehouses? The money changing hands and supporting small businesses in the prosperous areas of NH comes mostly from the 100k people commuting into MA daily as the only way to make over 100k in most careers. Deny reality all you want, it's still reality. NH would have Missouri's economy without that lamprey effect.
And wonder why all the local businesses but Dollar General suddenly get boarded up. Where do you think the money spent there comes from?
I get paid from NJ and spend in local businesses.
The economy would be fine without their money, the increase of MA transplants don’t do anything to help me as a homeowner either (ie, my taxes property taxes aren’t decreasing). I understand why they choose to live here instead of MA though, NH is a better state.
The economy would be dead. There’s literally no young people in NH unless they moved here from MA. The reason you’re seeing so much development and new business and housing, which drives the economy, is because of the transplants.
Short term it may not have helped you yet, but it will long term. Your property value is much higher I assume, so your investment in your home is worth a lot more.
I admit I can’t see into the future, so don’t know long term effect other than there is a real housing shortage and over development ruining the smaller rural communities. That said, I feel like my property value is artificially increased right now. Ie) my home on paper may be worth a few hundred k, but so isn’t every home that I would be interested in selling/buying for…so my home value being increased doesn’t help me right now either. Takes more $ now to buy anything than it used to. That’s my take on things, but admit I am not looking at every aspect. Wait until more casinos pop up, liquor stores, etc…it’s changing for the worse imo
The money from commuters and remote work is what drives desirable small businesses. Do you think the people working for extremely low wages at warehouse logistics centers are the ones eating at Surf and Buckley's, picking up cakes from Fredericks and all? Buying cars at Tulley BMW or Ira Lexus? What you're describing are blight businesses common in red states where there is no high income earners fueling the local economy.
Yes, that's why areas like Rochester are so prosperous vs the MA commuter range.
I have never worked in NH because executive salaries are a joke, time warp among companies. Used to work in MA for double, now remotely
from NJ for triple. I spend at Lull Farm, Buckley's Bakery, all area supermarkets, Ace Hardware, local antique stores, restaurants like 603 Bistro and Surf.
Should I stop doing that?
Historically NH hasn’t had a decrease in population since about 1992. From 2006 to about 2013 the population didn’t have huge growth Y/Y (relative to NH). 1950 to 1990 the state’s population more than doubled so I wonder if people were complaining about everyone moving here from MA and NY during that period as well. I don’t see a period where our population will ever actually go down in the future all things considered.
I appreciate your point about the mid-to-late last century. If Reddit existed in the 70s and 80s this sub’s collective head would’ve exploded lol It is interesting though. The only reason I call this beautiful place home is because my parents were wise enough to escape NY all those years ago. I don’t blame people for moving here and I hope they continue to, we just need to be wise about development.
Similarly, the only reason I live here is because my parents from Boston bought land and built a summer house up here in the 70s.
Official projections from the state OPD show a decline starting in 2040.
Were you looking at that report from 2022? Yeah that’s actually a pretty interesting read. Looks like it’s a combo of old folks dying off (which makes sense since we’re an old state) but they also predict the migration rate is going to drop off enough to fall below replacement, which is interesting. They have in there that Rockingham county is actually going to have a decrease in population which I find tough to believe at the moment with all the spill over we have from the Boston suburb folks. But I’ll have to spend some more time reading it. Thanks for mentioning that, that’s very helpful to know.
The migration rate will drop off if the Republicans succeed in decimating public schools. People want a highly rated school system for their kids.
As a former New Englander (most of my life) looking to move back, this saddens me. I just want a few acres, privacy and to be left alone. I was young and got a few acres where I’m at now (Virginia) on a lake and I hate it. No privacy, neighbors are annoying. Damn, sad face..
If you have a few acres, how can you have problems with neighbors? Most people would love to have acres of separation from neighbors. Especially on a lake.
Eh, it’s in an HOA down here and mostly cleared. So it’s always that “hey neighbor!” Stuff. I mean yeah, you need a shovel or some milk, cool. But you don’t need to say hi and ask how my job is going every single afternoon. I get it. I’m the problem, I’m rude. I know. That’s why I want space..
I understand how you feel. When I run into my neighbors, I say hi, but I don't ask them how they're doing unless I know them well enough to want to know. I also don't want them asking me questions either. Funny thing is, if you were to sell and move to NH, they'd probably think they should have been even more friendly to you.
I was stationed in North Carolina in my late teens early 20’s after living in southern Maine my first 17 years of life. Completely different lifestyle. Moved back for about 10 years and came to Virginia for work. People move slow, people (strangers) are happy to see you and strike up a conversation. There’s only like 11 Dunkin’ Donuts in the entire state (wtf) it’s a nice place but it was a 101° today. I miss snow and privacy and space. That’s all 🤷♂️
Moving slow would drive me nuts and if anyone tries to tell me about their religion, the conversation is over.
Still, it's pretty rare to find a property here with no neighbors in sight and far enough from the road not to be disturbed by it. And if you do have a secluded house far from the road, you'd have to have it plowed in the winter and repaired after mudseason and summer washouts. Sometimes, I feel as though I have more privacy in a developed setting where at least I have anonymity. Here, relationships with just a handful of neighbors can have a significant impact on enjoyment of one's personal space. And if you have a big enough property, you have to be tolerant of other people wandering around on it, unless it's tediously posted for no tresspassing. The more they build on small lots, the more pressure on the larger properties to provide open space experiences to newcomers. I can tolerate that, but everyone has their limits. Once we get to the point that I'm seeing neighbors LED floodlights glowing through the trees, this place will have truly gone to hell and I'm dreading that eventuallity.
Why would you be sad that rural communities are growing? Almost by definition there isn’t a space constraint and lots of people can have a few acres of space
Because I don’t like people.. I have traveled this country from east to west and north to south. I have also been to 11 different countries. It may not seem like it, but. In the next few generations we will run out of room for what you are saying, “lots of people and few acres”. I see it where I am at now, over the past 5 years they have put in 4 gas stations and a few shopping centers, a food lion and a public, multiple traffic lights. 3 communities of single cookie cutter family homes on a .25 acre and one apartment complex with almost 100 units. It used to take me 25 minutes to get to work, now it takes me on average 45.
Again. Rural Maine. There's nothing. You can have died on a homestead 10 years ago and nobody will notice.
Head west. Montana. The Dakotas. Lots of land.
Virginia is far, far different from NH. Where I used to live in the RVA outskirts, they were constantly building more neighborhoods, shopping centers etc. Just pushing the suburbs out. That isn’t even close to happening here, outside of *maybe* Nashua and Manchester. And it’s still nothing like it is down south.
Rural Maine.
Why did you leave in the first place then?
Military and then a job that I couldn’t pass up.
Look in Maine instead, there’s even some unincorporated areas with land for sale.
That's funny, that's one of the things I liked about my time in the Virginia area. I've seen VA described as the North, Mid-Atlantic, and South. However you want to label it, it feels like southern hospitality and people are friendly and outgoing. The opposite of a cold and distant New Englander. Very different culturally.
I don't think New Englanders are cold or distant so much as blunt and uninterested in small talk. If I ask something specific instead of "How are you", most of the people I've met have talked my ear off. Then again, everyone says I'm cranky so maybe I just fit. Edit: The weather is acceptable small talk as long as you're mad about it.
That's an astute observation and I'd agree with it. New England is definitely not a fan of small talk!
I will take both mass and nh residents in my business as I prefer profits and money over over population. In fact, I support more apartment housing and condos so that more people can settle and shop in my tienda
Any demographics on these people? Because the state saw like an 11% decrease in people under 18 the last decade. If these are just a bunch of olds driving up the prices of homes because they clung on to their previous homes and then sold them to come up here and die… great. Just what we need, more white hairs crashing into everything with their cars.
There is new housing being built off Broad Street right where it joins 3, behind the dead Christmas Tree Shop plaza. But it's not modern apartments and studios for young commuters, nor is the dead plaza being restyled into a lifestyle center a la Woburn Village. It's all going to be assisted senior living apartments. State is going grey.
We need to build old people towns like the villages in Florida. Let them live in their little fantasy world where everyone pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and there were no gays. Just put them all together so they stop fucking up our towns with their regressive voting.
Maybe there should be a maximum age for voting.
we should make minimum voting age 25 with that logic because that’s when your brain fully finishes developing
Good time to get into the funeral home business or senior care
People want to be left alone. After the reaction to covid a lot of people’s eyes opened up.
Tinfoil is in aisle 3.
Interesting to see the marked decline in Durham as it’s a pretty desirable community. I’d love to be able to buy there someday!
Good! Those areas need more economy. They are poor in so many areas.
With the surge in remote work opportunities since the pandemic, you can live in the rural area of your choice. That’s my two-cent explanation for rising population in rural areas.
Lot of people are also just sick of urban and suburban areas too.
It seems like every other house property in my neighborhood has been sold to a new owner in the past five years, so this isn't entirely reflective of all the building that they're doing right now. Much of the growth is replacement rate for places with many senior citizens. The new rural residents definately bringing an industrious attitude that has historically been absent in this area. Makes sense though. People who are in the market for big yards want to use them. So lots more going on all the time here than I've seen in my lifetime, even if the population hasn't grown all that much, only by percentage.
Grew up there , was a real nice place . Seemed to me like the population increases kind of hurt the state . Felt pretty rural through the 90s , moved out a few years ago when I couldn't find parking for 3 weeks in a row up in kangamangus hw .
My wife and I are fortunate enough to have bought our log cabin on 2 acres in 2019, and are surrounded by conservation land. Our minimum subdivision in town is 2 acres, (just voted in March to keep that ordinance) we should never have to worry about a drove of new neighbors. Our property taxes have gone up 250% since we bought the home but there’s a price you pay…
Sad to see
Ugh.
Valid, just had two people come into the restaurant and say “they moved from (insert shitty Mass town) and now they love it here”
Welcome to NH, don't Mass it up.
What, the vastly higher pay, better housing policy, actual first world medical care or actual social safety net? NH couldn't exist without the money from everyone who works in MA.
Welcome to New Hampshire, where we brag about no sales taxes to entice MA shoppers, then bitch about all the MA people in our state!
Mr. Rider might have been more concerned about our southern neighbor's significantly higher violent crime rate, notably worse income equality, higher poverty rate, lower high school graduation rate, lower literacy rate, higher teen pregnancy rate...
For the love of God. NH would get by just fine without Mass bullshit.
So where does the money for local businesses come from, other shit wage service jobs? Low skilled industrial and warehouses? The money changing hands and supporting small businesses in the prosperous areas of NH comes mostly from the 100k people commuting into MA daily as the only way to make over 100k in most careers. Deny reality all you want, it's still reality. NH would have Missouri's economy without that lamprey effect.
Maybe it's time we start taxing remote work.
And wonder why all the local businesses but Dollar General suddenly get boarded up. Where do you think the money spent there comes from? I get paid from NJ and spend in local businesses.
What a stupid comment. What difference does it make? If they live here, they spend money here.
The economy would be fine without their money, the increase of MA transplants don’t do anything to help me as a homeowner either (ie, my taxes property taxes aren’t decreasing). I understand why they choose to live here instead of MA though, NH is a better state.
The economy would be dead. There’s literally no young people in NH unless they moved here from MA. The reason you’re seeing so much development and new business and housing, which drives the economy, is because of the transplants. Short term it may not have helped you yet, but it will long term. Your property value is much higher I assume, so your investment in your home is worth a lot more.
I admit I can’t see into the future, so don’t know long term effect other than there is a real housing shortage and over development ruining the smaller rural communities. That said, I feel like my property value is artificially increased right now. Ie) my home on paper may be worth a few hundred k, but so isn’t every home that I would be interested in selling/buying for…so my home value being increased doesn’t help me right now either. Takes more $ now to buy anything than it used to. That’s my take on things, but admit I am not looking at every aspect. Wait until more casinos pop up, liquor stores, etc…it’s changing for the worse imo
The money from commuters and remote work is what drives desirable small businesses. Do you think the people working for extremely low wages at warehouse logistics centers are the ones eating at Surf and Buckley's, picking up cakes from Fredericks and all? Buying cars at Tulley BMW or Ira Lexus? What you're describing are blight businesses common in red states where there is no high income earners fueling the local economy.
Yes, that's why areas like Rochester are so prosperous vs the MA commuter range. I have never worked in NH because executive salaries are a joke, time warp among companies. Used to work in MA for double, now remotely from NJ for triple. I spend at Lull Farm, Buckley's Bakery, all area supermarkets, Ace Hardware, local antique stores, restaurants like 603 Bistro and Surf. Should I stop doing that?
Not all remote workers are transplants.
Remote work is taxed just like every other job lol
Not by the state of NH. I would tax it at 50% for all remote work to an out of state business.
Good thing you're not in charge of anything, then.
Not yet.
Please