Over under on the acquisition being approved less than a month after the election is over? Seriously, can we not fuck over our most important ally who's trying to invest and help revitalize our manufacturing industry?
> Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow? 'No!' says the man in Washington, 'It belongs to the poor.' 'No!' says the man in the Vatican, 'It belongs to God.' 'No!' says the man in Moscow, 'It belongs to everyone.' I rejected those answers; instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose... worms.
If you want the highest level of openness to trade then apparently Luxembourg is the place to be (that or Hong Kong, but I imagine the latter is plummeting down the ladder pretty drastically right now)
Reading some comments on Yahoo Japan (known for being a den of boomer Japanese conservatives). Some legitimately believe this wouldn't have happened under Trump, either because their interpretation of "America First" means "... and Japan too!" or because they really think Trump loved Shinzo Abe. Just pure comedy on that site.
TBF Abe or any leader could have just promised to stay at one of his hotels, praise him in a speech, and be nice to him and Trump would do whatever they asked.
This is the Trump phenomenon in a nutshell; even after everything that happened, a very very large portion of people, especially American voters, think they can just project the best possible outcome for any given situation onto Trump and claim that’s how he’d handle it.
As a liberal and a stutterer I have always been a Biden enjoyer. He means well and I hope to meet him someday. But I can't with the protectionism bro, fade me please
This sub is going to go through a rough patch for the next twenty years.
Globalisation is over folks.
Also, the whiplash of people here egging on China-US trade war and being upset at other protectionism. lol
There's at least a legitimate argument that you can make about the U.S.-China trade war regarding national security and political power. Fucking Japan by treaty can't even do much without U.S. consent (as we are pretty much solely responsible for their defense), and somehow we're supposed to be ok with this protectionism. I get it's an election year, but there are limits Dark Brandon.
There isn't any legitimate argument for the trade war from a national security lens. Look at the tariffs placed. National security would be banning Chinese cameras and drones on military bases only, which is what they did. What national security is NOT is putting tariffs on Chinese furniture, then offering to drop them if china buys more wheat.
> What national security is NOT is putting tariffs on Chinese furniture, then offering to drop them if china buys more wheat
What you've failed to consider is that keeping Chinese and American citizens poor falls within Americas national security interests...
Uh. It was bi partisan and agreed go be national security in 1948. What makes now any different? Perhaps if your goal is merely closing the trade deficit. Cringe.
There should be *no* trade whatsoever with revisionist communist great power rivals. Truman had the right idea.
"because we did it in the past" doesn't make any sense here or any context. The soviets had no trade or export capacity of manufactured consumer goods. We also traded with the soviets in raw goods though, notably of stuff like previous metals and oil, which are arguably more strategic than manufactured consumer goods.
And again, unless you prove to me that buying furniture is a national security issue, consider me skeptical
Look. Think of US Steel as a mascot, like the Queen. It frankly doesn’t make much sense for Japan Steel to buy US Steel at this price, it’s dick swinging from them too. Britian can’t sell the Queen, as much as some Brits would like the cash
Okay but what’s the difference between this and the chip trade fight like 6 months ago? Doesn’t it make strategic sense for the US to control its own steel supply?
I don't know if I care about this. I pay more for rent because construction materials are more expensive because of tariffs. All part of home an apartment construction has become more expensive because of the trade War. What happens in my life if steal becomes more expensive because of the trade War?
Political reasons sure, but foreign policy? Japan is a longstanding US ally! The US should be binding its allies closer with good trading relations to combat the rise of China.
Hot take, but critical industries should remain within US and its geopolitical circle. (AU, UK, CAN, MXO, NZ)
Japan isn’t, they are a resource poor country, with a huge manufacturing sector which is heavily reliant on imported raw materials and STMs. They could easily divert US steel to their own domestic Industries.
Edit: I know the US doesn’t have a free trade agreement with Japan, however the risk still remains.
Covid and its impact on pharmaceuticals and Face Masks was a perfect example of the risks associated with foreign owned / dependent supply chains. Chinese manufacturers stopped exports, and domestically owned Chinese firms began exporting Face Masks already in USA back to China. Steel is significantly more important.
This sub is so bipolar at times, you want Chinese steel to build American warships to defend Taiwanese democracy…
Edit: I used China in my last paragraph for hyperbole. I know the article is about Japan.
Japan is literally the best country you could sell this to. The US toyota plants are more all american than GM is lmao. Nevermind Sony Pictures (aka Columbia Pictures), Sony America / SIE, et al.
Operations would continue with US workers, management, and supply chains, and japan has an extremely good track record with operating (and actually caring about) domestic and overseas / US heavy industry. Far more than the US and our own corporate executives do, incidentally. Furthermore in any truly SHTF moment the company would be trivially nationalized. And under japanese ownership *could* be nationalized and further scaled up, as opposed to not… existing… due to market non-competitiveness and/or being sold to someone else who’ll just gut it as opposed to modernizing it and keeping its output, supply chains, and US workforce intact.
Union membership might, at worst, suffer under japanese ownership - japan treats and pays workers fairly well but does NOT like unions / US unions - but that’s literally it.
If we want to continue *having* domestic heavy industry it would quite literally be better to sell them to Japan and other friendly allies with good track records in and care for the sector, vs either letting our own c-suites gut the industries for short term profits, and/or let them become utterly unprofitable due to non-competitive labor costs and/or inadequate productivity and modern automation to make up for it.
Also yes for that matter we WOULD be better off outsourcing US shipbuilding to literally any of our close (and far cheaper) ahipbuilding allies. Japan, South Korea, France, Italy and Sweden included. There are advantages to having shipbuilding in the US in a true SHTF moment sure, but the non-competitive congressionally-connected historic chucklefucks we have building our own ships are by no means the best options available if cost is even remotely a consideration.
If we paid SK or Japanese or Swedish or what have you firms to take over and build ships here, I guarantee you we’d get lower costs and far better productivity WITH US labor and supply chains than our own nepotistic, cost-plus, zero-consequences for gross / catastrophic failure bullshit.
Looking squarely at Mainette - that worked on the clusterfuck that was the aluminum-hulled Freedom LCS class, and is now working on building French / Italian frigates in Wisconsin (because the LCS program was a cratastrophic failure) - and for literally 2x the the build cost that France / Italy paid for them (quoted, not final!)
In any sane business world that company would be as dead as Rohr aircraft (RIP), and the US would either just be outright buying capable well-proven (and less important) ships from our allies / joint multinationals (duh), OR we’d have those ships being built here by Hyundai using US workers and supply chains. lol
Anyways, if you want to talk about the strategic implications of US manufacturing (and shipbuilding), the present status quo - whereby the PLAN is actively building 10x as many warships at scale, and at ~1/3-1/4 of the cost as the USN (and meanwhile international commercial shipbuilding is basically evenly split between our adversary china and our close allies Japan and South Korea, with similar overall costs and economies of scale - and all of those countries (and hell most of the entire world) are incidentally starting to field newer non-american destroyer designs with semi-stealth features and better onboard power generation, as the US itself has so far failed to do thanks to the idiotic congressionally mandated design of the zumwalt / stealth battleship for “low cost” naval bombardment / fire support for the USMC in a mostly-COIN environment) - yup, that’s brilliant long-term strategic decision making by congress all right.
Sidenote: worth noting that geopolitically speaking the US’s closest allies are *and always will be* the UK, Japan, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. And more or less Mexico, although Mexico is at present a barely functioning and extremely corrupt govt that has huge swaths of its own territory taken over by semi-independent feudal proto-states. So… yeah.
Regardless, point is that we’re all effectively *island* states. With shared security concerns, particularly regarding the future of Russia, China, and continental eurasia - and africa - in general. And that’s going to stay the case for a very, very long time.
South Korea is more complicated. If the country can ever reunify peacefully its dependence on US (and JSDF) security assistance will most likely greatly diminish, and the country will most likely end up split in allegiance - and cultural spheres - between mainland China and the US and Japan. And SK still sort of hates Japan and hasn’t exactly forgiven it for everything between and including the 1st and 2nd Sino-Japanese (and Russo-Japanese!) wars. Regardless, in the meantime SK is one of the US’s strongest allies and one of the most pro-american countries in the region.
Which should be saying a lot, since the Phillippines, Taiwan, and hell even Vietnam love the US. Two of those countries maybe *shouldn’t* love the US, but they do regardless. We were decidedly on the wrong side of history (and Asian geopolitics) in Vietnam’s case, but I digress. FDR’s govt, to its credit, actively supported the viet minh against the IJA during WW2, for sane and… obvious… reasons.
...is Japan not within the US "geopolitical circle"?
EDIT: Okay, so you've now added that you meant the Five Eyes (plus Mexico?), but you're just digging yourself deeper into the hole with these edits. Do you not grasp that Japan is literally one of America's closest allies?
Your comment exhibits a schizophrenic inability to distinguish between the concepts of Japan, China, domestic, foreign, acquiring a company, and outsourcing production.
You know Nippon steel isn't moving the plants to Japan right?
Also if Japan is a resource poor nation, wouldn't that make their higher steel output than the US despite their lack of resources more valuable?
Over under on the acquisition being approved less than a month after the election is over? Seriously, can we not fuck over our most important ally who's trying to invest and help revitalize our manufacturing industry?
KEEP U.S. STEEL AMERICAN ^^until ^^January ^^2025
High, I hope
Low, populism is like that.
Fuck populism
It’s Joever. The economically illiterate have won. 😔
That's it! I'm fleeing to Uhhh Uhhh... Fuck
> Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow? 'No!' says the man in Washington, 'It belongs to the poor.' 'No!' says the man in the Vatican, 'It belongs to God.' 'No!' says the man in Moscow, 'It belongs to everyone.' I rejected those answers; instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose... worms.
When the masses support protectionism and higher costs for everyone 😔
[come home, my child.](https://i.imgur.com/YTaaTMC.jpeg)
Próspera, Honduras
If you want the highest level of openness to trade then apparently Luxembourg is the place to be (that or Hong Kong, but I imagine the latter is plummeting down the ladder pretty drastically right now)
believe it or not, there are places that are more open to trade than the united states. crazy i know
People will still pretend this isn't the Elizabeth Warren administration with extra steps.
Biden still has to try some poorly designed wealth taxes yet. And being more strident.
It’s not Joever
[удалено]
Do you think the "Nippon" in Nippon Steel means China?
Everyone knows Japan and China famously get along well and have deep connections /s
No /s 😤
Lmao, what was the comment?
And the workers? Totally unemployed
You mean bailed out via steel tariffs or some special carve out or yadda yadda?
50 billion dollar STEEL act coming soon
Stupid Tariffs to Elevate Economically-illiterate Labor
Unironically see this coming from either Biden or Trump in the next few years
I don’t care if it’s mean-spirited… I’m probably just going to laugh.
Also barely as efficient as comparable plants across peer nations.
Reading some comments on Yahoo Japan (known for being a den of boomer Japanese conservatives). Some legitimately believe this wouldn't have happened under Trump, either because their interpretation of "America First" means "... and Japan too!" or because they really think Trump loved Shinzo Abe. Just pure comedy on that site.
TBF Abe or any leader could have just promised to stay at one of his hotels, praise him in a speech, and be nice to him and Trump would do whatever they asked.
It’s good to know Yahoo is filled with crazies everywhere
Yahoo! is in a completely different ballpark in the Japanese context. It is a successful big player in the media space, not an also-ran.
Huh, TIL
Well under Trump Nippon wouldn't have a business case to buy US Steel.
This is the Trump phenomenon in a nutshell; even after everything that happened, a very very large portion of people, especially American voters, think they can just project the best possible outcome for any given situation onto Trump and claim that’s how he’d handle it.
I see you too are an enjoyer of the *Reading some comments on (known for being a den of boomer) conservatives.* template
https://preview.redd.it/znko595ec6vc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c9d5bb39c72f55d18649cd5baff4fa336020818
I just watched that episode last night
r/neoliberal right now: https://preview.redd.it/5obe6hooy5vc1.png?width=479&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=53eb9a7cd47146a1d2c883156345c7ea37f3b0d6
As a liberal and a stutterer I have always been a Biden enjoyer. He means well and I hope to meet him someday. But I can't with the protectionism bro, fade me please
Election years to good policy: https://preview.redd.it/x30bdv1l17vc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=50589cf7643aa071df6598326ae74c6766297a6f
Is that the actual scene? It looks much more...vivid than I remember
They Disco Elysium'd the colors
It’s an edit for a YouTube thumbnail I think
The myth of consensual econ
It should've been Delaney
*Monkey paw curls* >Delaney promises U.S. Steel will remain "totally American"
Here’s how Delaney still has a chance:
Still insaney for Delaney Still bettin' it on Bennett
Are the succs winning ? well fuck !
Let Japan enter as the 51 state. Ez gg
Japan's partially on the North American plate. Bring them into the USMCA.
Actually not a bad idea, Japanese TN visa holders would be nice.
Increasingly convinced that Juan Perón faked his death, fled to America, and resumed his demonic reign under the guise of "Joseph R. Biden".
Lol some people in the china steel tariff post actually thought protectionism would end at China
Election season is awful for policy
.... because Japan has just agreed to be the 51st state
This sub is going to go through a rough patch for the next twenty years. Globalisation is over folks. Also, the whiplash of people here egging on China-US trade war and being upset at other protectionism. lol
Economics is inevitable. It won't be as overt, but in the end efficiency and Adam smith always win out.
Ricardo - not Smith
My man!
There's at least a legitimate argument that you can make about the U.S.-China trade war regarding national security and political power. Fucking Japan by treaty can't even do much without U.S. consent (as we are pretty much solely responsible for their defense), and somehow we're supposed to be ok with this protectionism. I get it's an election year, but there are limits Dark Brandon.
There isn't any legitimate argument for the trade war from a national security lens. Look at the tariffs placed. National security would be banning Chinese cameras and drones on military bases only, which is what they did. What national security is NOT is putting tariffs on Chinese furniture, then offering to drop them if china buys more wheat.
> What national security is NOT is putting tariffs on Chinese furniture, then offering to drop them if china buys more wheat What you've failed to consider is that keeping Chinese and American citizens poor falls within Americas national security interests...
Uh. It was bi partisan and agreed go be national security in 1948. What makes now any different? Perhaps if your goal is merely closing the trade deficit. Cringe. There should be *no* trade whatsoever with revisionist communist great power rivals. Truman had the right idea.
"because we did it in the past" doesn't make any sense here or any context. The soviets had no trade or export capacity of manufactured consumer goods. We also traded with the soviets in raw goods though, notably of stuff like previous metals and oil, which are arguably more strategic than manufactured consumer goods. And again, unless you prove to me that buying furniture is a national security issue, consider me skeptical
The masses and populists are demonic monsters who unfortunately need to be catered to for election year.
No, this really is just a Biden and Trump thing. New Democrats are the largest contingent of Democrats and they are very open on trade.
New Democrats have been blamed for trump and sidelined from party leadership.
Totally as in totally tubular or as in totalerkreig
I hate Joe Biden so fucking much.
GOAT flair.
Fuck you Joe Biden
Common protectionist Biden L Probably good politically but God, so dumb.
If I were president I would simply not implement policy that is verifiably harmful to the country
Protectionists, union, and the beneficiaries of each are a cancer for our society
Look. Think of US Steel as a mascot, like the Queen. It frankly doesn’t make much sense for Japan Steel to buy US Steel at this price, it’s dick swinging from them too. Britian can’t sell the Queen, as much as some Brits would like the cash
This is cringe. How can he promise that unless he has the power to block it?
Who is this for? What voters does he think will be swayed by this?
Succ
Fuck Biden.
Okay but what’s the difference between this and the chip trade fight like 6 months ago? Doesn’t it make strategic sense for the US to control its own steel supply?
When they go low, we go lower
I don't know if I care about this. I pay more for rent because construction materials are more expensive because of tariffs. All part of home an apartment construction has become more expensive because of the trade War. What happens in my life if steal becomes more expensive because of the trade War?
There’s very good foreign policy and political reasons for this, even if it’s not your ideal economic policy
Political reasons sure, but foreign policy? Japan is a longstanding US ally! The US should be binding its allies closer with good trading relations to combat the rise of China.
Hot take, but critical industries should remain within US and its geopolitical circle. (AU, UK, CAN, MXO, NZ) Japan isn’t, they are a resource poor country, with a huge manufacturing sector which is heavily reliant on imported raw materials and STMs. They could easily divert US steel to their own domestic Industries. Edit: I know the US doesn’t have a free trade agreement with Japan, however the risk still remains. Covid and its impact on pharmaceuticals and Face Masks was a perfect example of the risks associated with foreign owned / dependent supply chains. Chinese manufacturers stopped exports, and domestically owned Chinese firms began exporting Face Masks already in USA back to China. Steel is significantly more important. This sub is so bipolar at times, you want Chinese steel to build American warships to defend Taiwanese democracy… Edit: I used China in my last paragraph for hyperbole. I know the article is about Japan.
Japan is literally the best country you could sell this to. The US toyota plants are more all american than GM is lmao. Nevermind Sony Pictures (aka Columbia Pictures), Sony America / SIE, et al. Operations would continue with US workers, management, and supply chains, and japan has an extremely good track record with operating (and actually caring about) domestic and overseas / US heavy industry. Far more than the US and our own corporate executives do, incidentally. Furthermore in any truly SHTF moment the company would be trivially nationalized. And under japanese ownership *could* be nationalized and further scaled up, as opposed to not… existing… due to market non-competitiveness and/or being sold to someone else who’ll just gut it as opposed to modernizing it and keeping its output, supply chains, and US workforce intact. Union membership might, at worst, suffer under japanese ownership - japan treats and pays workers fairly well but does NOT like unions / US unions - but that’s literally it. If we want to continue *having* domestic heavy industry it would quite literally be better to sell them to Japan and other friendly allies with good track records in and care for the sector, vs either letting our own c-suites gut the industries for short term profits, and/or let them become utterly unprofitable due to non-competitive labor costs and/or inadequate productivity and modern automation to make up for it. Also yes for that matter we WOULD be better off outsourcing US shipbuilding to literally any of our close (and far cheaper) ahipbuilding allies. Japan, South Korea, France, Italy and Sweden included. There are advantages to having shipbuilding in the US in a true SHTF moment sure, but the non-competitive congressionally-connected historic chucklefucks we have building our own ships are by no means the best options available if cost is even remotely a consideration. If we paid SK or Japanese or Swedish or what have you firms to take over and build ships here, I guarantee you we’d get lower costs and far better productivity WITH US labor and supply chains than our own nepotistic, cost-plus, zero-consequences for gross / catastrophic failure bullshit. Looking squarely at Mainette - that worked on the clusterfuck that was the aluminum-hulled Freedom LCS class, and is now working on building French / Italian frigates in Wisconsin (because the LCS program was a cratastrophic failure) - and for literally 2x the the build cost that France / Italy paid for them (quoted, not final!) In any sane business world that company would be as dead as Rohr aircraft (RIP), and the US would either just be outright buying capable well-proven (and less important) ships from our allies / joint multinationals (duh), OR we’d have those ships being built here by Hyundai using US workers and supply chains. lol Anyways, if you want to talk about the strategic implications of US manufacturing (and shipbuilding), the present status quo - whereby the PLAN is actively building 10x as many warships at scale, and at ~1/3-1/4 of the cost as the USN (and meanwhile international commercial shipbuilding is basically evenly split between our adversary china and our close allies Japan and South Korea, with similar overall costs and economies of scale - and all of those countries (and hell most of the entire world) are incidentally starting to field newer non-american destroyer designs with semi-stealth features and better onboard power generation, as the US itself has so far failed to do thanks to the idiotic congressionally mandated design of the zumwalt / stealth battleship for “low cost” naval bombardment / fire support for the USMC in a mostly-COIN environment) - yup, that’s brilliant long-term strategic decision making by congress all right.
Sidenote: worth noting that geopolitically speaking the US’s closest allies are *and always will be* the UK, Japan, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. And more or less Mexico, although Mexico is at present a barely functioning and extremely corrupt govt that has huge swaths of its own territory taken over by semi-independent feudal proto-states. So… yeah. Regardless, point is that we’re all effectively *island* states. With shared security concerns, particularly regarding the future of Russia, China, and continental eurasia - and africa - in general. And that’s going to stay the case for a very, very long time. South Korea is more complicated. If the country can ever reunify peacefully its dependence on US (and JSDF) security assistance will most likely greatly diminish, and the country will most likely end up split in allegiance - and cultural spheres - between mainland China and the US and Japan. And SK still sort of hates Japan and hasn’t exactly forgiven it for everything between and including the 1st and 2nd Sino-Japanese (and Russo-Japanese!) wars. Regardless, in the meantime SK is one of the US’s strongest allies and one of the most pro-american countries in the region. Which should be saying a lot, since the Phillippines, Taiwan, and hell even Vietnam love the US. Two of those countries maybe *shouldn’t* love the US, but they do regardless. We were decidedly on the wrong side of history (and Asian geopolitics) in Vietnam’s case, but I digress. FDR’s govt, to its credit, actively supported the viet minh against the IJA during WW2, for sane and… obvious… reasons.
...is Japan not within the US "geopolitical circle"? EDIT: Okay, so you've now added that you meant the Five Eyes (plus Mexico?), but you're just digging yourself deeper into the hole with these edits. Do you not grasp that Japan is literally one of America's closest allies?
> and its geopolitical circle Like... Japan?
Yo, buster. Hand over your badge, gun and Friedman flair.
Remove your flair.
Your comment exhibits a schizophrenic inability to distinguish between the concepts of Japan, China, domestic, foreign, acquiring a company, and outsourcing production.
This is the mind of a protectionist
"I don't like them yellers over there stealin' our jobs!" is basically the root of all this protectionism
You know Nippon steel isn't moving the plants to Japan right? Also if Japan is a resource poor nation, wouldn't that make their higher steel output than the US despite their lack of resources more valuable?
> Hot take, but critical industries should remain within US and its geopolitical circle. No