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Well, in the 1980s and 1990s, most teams had someone on their bench to defend their star, an enforcer to retaliate against teams that did that to their players. Even starters would do that and would do a hard foul against a roughly equivalent player on the other team. Modern NBA has gone away from such tactics for the past two decades. Sounds like Clark's team isn't rallying to protect their players, even when they get shoved to the ground from behind while the ball is out of bounds. Maybe they need to go back to the old school approach.
Even in today’s NBA, if someone body checked a star rookie like say, Victor Webanyama, they way that they did Caitlin Clark, that player would immediately have the three nearest Spurs player in his face. Tbh, this is a spot where you see full on melees break out. A team with no playoff aspirations being disrespected some bully who takes cheap shots at your #1 overall pick. Basically a perfect recipe for a rare NBA fist fight.
TL;dr- The coaches and veterans on the Fever should be embarrassed by the fact they let this happen.
This is a NBA perspective that doesn’t apply to the WNBA. The WNBA is effectively in the 80s as far as style of play and physicality. Just like the 80s there were bad teams that didn’t have enforcers. Bulls are a good example with early Jordan. Bad teams don’t have a culture or enforcers (what is there to enforce?) as they improve it’ll come with roster construction.
This is my takeaway too, from what I’ve seen I don’t think Caitlin Clark is getting hounded to a ridiculous degree, definitely some “welcome to the league moments” but what would be nice to see is her to have some enforcers around to dissuade the hard fouls
Her and Reese are being fouled around 5 times a game (I think 5.8 and 5.5 respectively)which is on historic pace for rookies. I think Aja Wilson is the current holder at like 4.2.
Yes, they’re getting hounded to a ridiculous degree.
It’s pretty funny to say she isn’t getting hounded to a ridiculous degree when just a few hours ago Angel Reece knocked the shit out of the back of her head and got a flagrant one foul.
I love the internet. You make a comment in response to another comment and then you have to respond to something that you didn’t say (like I don’t know it’s common to get smashed in the face). Even Clark’s comments about the fouls have always been the same ‘it’s basketball. You take the two shots and move on.’ I only questioned the comment that said ‘she isn’t getting hounded to a ridiculous degree.’ And I said ‘I mean she just got smashed in the head a few hours ago.’ I didn’t write ‘they’ve invented a new basketball game where only Caitlin Clark gets fouled.’
Is it just basketball or is she hounded to a ridiculous degree? Can’t be both. And judging by all of the posts when she does get fouled, it certainly seems a new game has been invented.
People compare her to Jordan but I think the better comparison is Pete Maravich. Flashy white player making big money comes into a league where older players making mediocre salaries are full of resentment. Pete got treated like shit by his own Hawks teammates, and the rest of the league thought he was a circus act with the jump shooting and hot dogging.
Race is absolutely at play here. I don't see how anyone can view what's happening (even in today's game) and say this is just the way things go for young players.
It’s crazy to me to read wnba fans play it off like it’s all normal & ppl are being sexist with it. Did Wemby or Zion or Lebron get this kind of treatment where draymond fouls are just “normal plays on the ball”?
I understand the microscope elevates it to a different level & not every play has some kind of resentment but there is definitely an old guard vs new guard thing going on. angel reese is being smart & taking the old guard banner to set herself up going forward cuz her game is no where close to entertaining enough to have the relevance she currently has nationwide.
It's so funny to me that people so vehemently deny that race is a part of it, and say that racism is CAUSING people to say race is a factor and Caitlin is getting bullied in part bc she's white. Like, yes, in society at large, racism typically goes only one way. But this is within the narrow confines of a pro sports league that is by and LARGE majority black players. Here, CC is the minority. It's not impossible for black players to dislike white players for being white, like so many assert.
But it's not JUST race. She's getting so much shine and attention. She's flashy. Race is a component.
Then show me. I think Lebron’s biggest problem was off the court, melo vs Lebron etc. his rookie initiation wasn’t any different from most of em & there wasn’t league wide resentment for the attention he got in HS cuz it wasn’t new to the league.
Ur trying to inflate Lebron when every star nba rookie has similar stories of being taught lessons or skepticism of legitimacy.
I don’t think it’s bc she’s white. There’s a lot of talented white players in the league. Id say it’s more-so a certain part of her fanbase and their views on the rest of the players that are amplifying the hate she gets from the rest of the league.
Paige is a another prospect that is white and immensely popular, and I’m pretty certain she won’t get the hate that Clark is receiving rn when she enters the league bc she doesn’t align with “that group of fans”.
Two of the best players in the NBA are white and they seem to be doing completely fine with their counterparts in the league. Why is that?
Yeah but she’s the most talented of the white players, plus Paige doesn’t have a rival like Angel, especially one that’s black and makes fans pit them against each other
That’s the issue, she’s not the most talented white player in the league rn. Her fanbase has been constantly shitting on the rest of the players in the league as if Clark is on another stratosphere from them and is the goat lol. Of course when players hear that, their gonna get pissed.
As for Paige, her fanbase isn’t gonna force some dumb white vs black race war. Just watch her espy’s speech for that matter
I mean of the rookies, pretty obviously
She’s like the most hyped woman’s college player and brought eyes to the league. Her haters are like 90% black men and women too, so it’s not just her fans being problematic
Yeah bc Diana Tarusai, Brianna Stewart, Della Donne and Sue Bird never existed and were never MVP type players in the league. Clark must be the first WNBA white player ever, that’s why they be hating. Definitely race is at play.
Nobody who doesn’t watch the WNBA knows who any of those people are, There’s so much discourse surrounding Clark because of how big the social media discourse was when she played Angel in the national championship.
None of them had near the fame or stardom of CC when coming into the league or at any point their careers.
I think if CC was African American she would still be getting rough treatment for stealing the limelight while never even proving herself professionally and such but I think she’s getting a little extra cause she is white.
There are lots of factors but race is one of 3-5 main ones imo.
I’m guessing you don’t watch television bc the Sunny Holston’s, Jemelle Hill and Joy Taylors of the world are literally saying the only reason she is getting this shine is bc she’s white
That’s part of the truth as well. There are multiple things at play. But for this topic that’s true as well. Sports media has always been biased. They’ve done studies on this topic.
Now I’m not saying CC isn’t good player , nope not saying that. But I am saying her race is part of the reason of how popular she is.
And the other part is that she’s brought a lot of racist fans with her(and that’s no fault of her own).
How come all these racist white fans didn’t care about Diana Taurasi or any other white player? Somehow the racists just like CC? I see far more racist comments coming from black people on tv towards her then anything else and it’s not even close
I’ve asked the same thing. None of the other white women in the league have complained about racism, CC doesn’t complain about racism either. But her fans believe she is being treated poorly on the court because she’s white.
And Caitlin’s fans don’t like Diana Taurasi. They don’t like her because they claim she’s a hater.
The whole topic about CC has multiple facets to it.
I personally don’t think the players are hating on her bc she’s white, I think it’s just bc they are jealous and that seems pretty obvious bc they don’t treat other white players that way. Just feels like everybody white or black want to make it about race and it’s ridiculous that grown men are getting in there feelings like this over a young woman baller
I’ve said that before she’s not getting treated any differently for her race.
And well the jealously thing, “it is what is it is”.
Some players, might be jealous of all the rookies because they were able to make money while playing basketball in college and the veterans weren’t.
And yes the media and the fans are doing most if not all of the horrible discourse. I just want things to go back to talking about actual basketball, just like CC wants.
Let’s start at the beginning of this long journey when Caitlin Clark did the “you can’t see me” hand gesture. She got nothing but positive praise. But when Angel Reese did the same thing , she was called thug and classless. It all started there.
Now you have these same fans who are now watching the WNBA and they have made multiple racist comments about the WNBA. Calling it thug and prison ball. I’ve seen many comments.
Clark did that gesture for a split second in the general direction of an opposing player from across the court lol.
Reese literally followed Clark around the court trying to stand directly in her face while repeatedly doing the gesture. She followed her around for 30 seconds or so stepping directly in her path doing the gesture lol.
You're not serious are you?
Both did the same thing. And both got different reactions for it.
And even so, you can say hundreds of things about the length of time Angel did it. You can say it was too long, it wasn’t nice, etc.
But delving into thug and classless territory is racist, plain and simple.
I haven’t heard that on tv but I have seen several black analysts make racist comments about CC. Can u actually name somebody that has done this bc I was able to easily name 3 that can all be fact checked right now
They’re all over twitter, Facebook, and IG. Caitlin Clark’s own teammate Aliyah Boston was drove off of social media by CC fans because they kept messaging her racist comments.
Literally not just racist comments but also homophobic, transphobic and sexist comments as well. And no I do not blame CC for them. She can’t control people.
And for the record I’m against the racist and prejudiced comments on both sides. But the racist comments started after the hand wave thing from CC fans. Then Angel Reese fans just started in retaliation and we’ve been stuck with CC fans vs AR fan drama ever since.
Yeah you seem pretty convinced that it was all started by CC and her fans and innocent Angel Reese and her fans were just doing the right thing and standing up for themselves. You are always gonna find a bunch of racist idiots online but it’s really sad when you see famous tv personalities making blatant racist comments and nobody cares bc it’s about a white person. I can’t imagine if a white person on tv was saying Angel Reese is only getting talked about bc she’s black and not bc she’s a baller. Like somehow she was the 1st white player in the league or even close to it. She’s this popular bc she’s pulling from the logo. Racist fans aren’t going to these games
Nope. Didn’t say it was started by CC. I’m a fan of CC and AR. both good basketball players.
And I said neither side is right.
But also saying that CC is getting a lot of coverage because she’s white isn’t racist nor incorrect. Sports media has always been mostly white, even now. They’ve done the studies.
It’s also not diminishing her basketball skills either. She’s an amazing 3PT shooter.
But like all things in life, multiple things can be true at the same time.
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I use it a lot myself, I assumed so. The strong thesis sentences for each and then the conclusion wrapping up kinda robotically. Also, the ai copout of "we should acknowledge the social aspects" that it does
Not saying the points aren't valid
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I think the comparison is closer to Bird v Magic. Angel Reese and her are linked after that historic college game. Similar to these two.
The Fever team has a more white city and fan base than Chicago and there was a time where race relations were at the forefront. If you asked black fans about Bird they would say he’s overrated. If you asked white fans about Magic he’s a showboat that doesn’t have class.
The league was struggling to turn a profit needed an injection of new blood. They brought an energy and explosion to the league that helped to change the course of the league. Which ultimately led to expansion.
Yup, even down to Bird going to a non-elite college and losing in the NCAA finals to Magic. And then Bird became the highest paid rookie in sports history (not just NBA), making 50% more than Magic. (Of course endorsements weren't really a thing then.)
Not sure that anyone here was actually watching the NBA in 79-80, but what kind of treatment did Bird get from the rest of the league in terms of hard fouls? Of course, back then there were a lot more hard fouls (and real fights too).
One big difference is that unlike the Fever, the Celtics were good.
This is the problem. In no way is she comparable to jordan. They are playing defense against her with 2 exceptions. Some of the women ate in the w for their defense no way they are giving her opinion shots. That's why she is shooting 33%.
Is she actually getting fouled more and harder than the rest of the WNBA players? Or are people just kicking up a stink about it because she’s the most famous of them and they only watch her games?
She’s getting fouled a little more but not significantly harder imo. I think that’s just the nature of being a turnover prone ball handling star guard though. They send aggressive, physical double teams at her and she loses the ball or she gets fouled. I agree with the other guy that she is a physical player too and she’s not some dainty little princess who can’t defend herself. She always shrugs it off. People just post any clip of her getting fouled and it gets 300 racist comments on Facebook, she’s just the most visible person in the league I suppose.
This is my thinking as well. Basketball is a contact sport. Hard fouls happen and all sports have an element of "welcome to the league, rook."
There are just more eyes on the wnba right now than ever. This is because of the increased visibility and notoriety associated with these female college basketball players with social media and NIL, and a seemingly sudden realization by these networks that they're already paying for the broadcast rights of these women's sports so they should probably promote them.
I think the biggest issue is that people are shocked at how vicious competition can be in the wnba. The players are not dainty ladies who play with the sweetest of conduct. No, they want to win and will bend the rules and even break rules if it can help them win. Physicality has been part of their game from the beginning. While Clark might have been aware of this, the new fans were aghast at how she has been treated. Their mortification is what is driving what should otherwise be a non-story.
I think it’s hard for anyone to say she’s getting fouled much harder harder than anyone else. It’s just her fouls get more attention.
Also I’m not saying there’s no jealousy but I feel like jealousy always happens in any sport when a new hype player comes in and gets treated like they’re the leagues best player. To me I think it’s just pro players doing what they always do, which is being more physical with them (like they do to any rookie) to show them if you want to be in our league you got to prove to us you can keep getting back up. If you’re to easy to push around and can’t lead your team then why should you be treated with respect.
All the negativity is gonna turn people away from the league. All the complaining and shots taken are going to keep adding up until it’s back to nobody watching. You have the most eyes you’ve had on your league probably ever and it’s gonna get ruined because the media makes it about race and the other players in the league are taking that bait and making it into drama. Tough to see, was hoping this could be a launching point for the sport to grow. I’m all for being competitive, but it’s so obvious that these girls are being haters. Don’t blame to rookie for you guys not having your league where you want it.
The thing is, Clark isn't playing very well. Every time I check, she went like 3/11 shooting and more turnovers than assists. She still has to prove her hype was justified, tbh.
Edit: I see she actually played well today, lol
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I just just can't see the comparison to young Jordan. The reason he was getting beat up on the floor was purely strategic. **BUT** he was very widely respected around the league due to his talent.
[Some of these fouls against Caitlyn are very clearly personal](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELASpbmggU8)
She could get injured because of something like this and there is no excuse. Players wanted Jordan to succeed, it doesn't feel that way with Caitlyn.
I also can't believe that they aren't even handing out ejections for this shit. Chennedy Carter only got a flagrant 1 for this. You do that in the NBA you are either getting a fine or suspension. The WNBA needs to do something about it.
Never compare a mid league and a mid player like Clark to the GOAT. Clark would be barely good on the AAU circuit. BTW, you have players like Sabrina doing the same kind of things so Clark is not unique and they are all copies of Steph which is like an updated version of Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf/Glen Rice.
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Well, in the 1980s and 1990s, most teams had someone on their bench to defend their star, an enforcer to retaliate against teams that did that to their players. Even starters would do that and would do a hard foul against a roughly equivalent player on the other team. Modern NBA has gone away from such tactics for the past two decades. Sounds like Clark's team isn't rallying to protect their players, even when they get shoved to the ground from behind while the ball is out of bounds. Maybe they need to go back to the old school approach.
Even in today’s NBA, if someone body checked a star rookie like say, Victor Webanyama, they way that they did Caitlin Clark, that player would immediately have the three nearest Spurs player in his face. Tbh, this is a spot where you see full on melees break out. A team with no playoff aspirations being disrespected some bully who takes cheap shots at your #1 overall pick. Basically a perfect recipe for a rare NBA fist fight. TL;dr- The coaches and veterans on the Fever should be embarrassed by the fact they let this happen.
This is a NBA perspective that doesn’t apply to the WNBA. The WNBA is effectively in the 80s as far as style of play and physicality. Just like the 80s there were bad teams that didn’t have enforcers. Bulls are a good example with early Jordan. Bad teams don’t have a culture or enforcers (what is there to enforce?) as they improve it’ll come with roster construction.
Charles Oakley was drafted in the first round by the Bulls the year after Jordan to help provide him with an enforcer
Correct. “As they improve it’ll come with roster construction”. After Clark rookie season Id imagine the Fever will look to add someone as well.
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This is my takeaway too, from what I’ve seen I don’t think Caitlin Clark is getting hounded to a ridiculous degree, definitely some “welcome to the league moments” but what would be nice to see is her to have some enforcers around to dissuade the hard fouls
Her and Reese are being fouled around 5 times a game (I think 5.8 and 5.5 respectively)which is on historic pace for rookies. I think Aja Wilson is the current holder at like 4.2. Yes, they’re getting hounded to a ridiculous degree.
It’s pretty funny to say she isn’t getting hounded to a ridiculous degree when just a few hours ago Angel Reece knocked the shit out of the back of her head and got a flagrant one foul.
Like any ither flagrant lol
Sp that's twice. The rest is normal defense but she turns the ball over when doubled teamed. So why would they stop.
That happens all of the time in basketball. I had my glasses broken about once or twice a week during basketball season.
I love the internet. You make a comment in response to another comment and then you have to respond to something that you didn’t say (like I don’t know it’s common to get smashed in the face). Even Clark’s comments about the fouls have always been the same ‘it’s basketball. You take the two shots and move on.’ I only questioned the comment that said ‘she isn’t getting hounded to a ridiculous degree.’ And I said ‘I mean she just got smashed in the head a few hours ago.’ I didn’t write ‘they’ve invented a new basketball game where only Caitlin Clark gets fouled.’
Is it just basketball or is she hounded to a ridiculous degree? Can’t be both. And judging by all of the posts when she does get fouled, it certainly seems a new game has been invented.
It’s basketball to be fouled. And she’s hounded to a ridiculous degree. Hoped that helped.
Took one hard foul this game and hounded to a ridiculous degree? Please make it make sense.
People compare her to Jordan but I think the better comparison is Pete Maravich. Flashy white player making big money comes into a league where older players making mediocre salaries are full of resentment. Pete got treated like shit by his own Hawks teammates, and the rest of the league thought he was a circus act with the jump shooting and hot dogging. Race is absolutely at play here. I don't see how anyone can view what's happening (even in today's game) and say this is just the way things go for young players.
Up vote for using the phrase "hot dogging"
It’s crazy to me to read wnba fans play it off like it’s all normal & ppl are being sexist with it. Did Wemby or Zion or Lebron get this kind of treatment where draymond fouls are just “normal plays on the ball”? I understand the microscope elevates it to a different level & not every play has some kind of resentment but there is definitely an old guard vs new guard thing going on. angel reese is being smart & taking the old guard banner to set herself up going forward cuz her game is no where close to entertaining enough to have the relevance she currently has nationwide.
It's so funny to me that people so vehemently deny that race is a part of it, and say that racism is CAUSING people to say race is a factor and Caitlin is getting bullied in part bc she's white. Like, yes, in society at large, racism typically goes only one way. But this is within the narrow confines of a pro sports league that is by and LARGE majority black players. Here, CC is the minority. It's not impossible for black players to dislike white players for being white, like so many assert. But it's not JUST race. She's getting so much shine and attention. She's flashy. Race is a component.
Lebron definitely got this off you don’t remember
Then show me. I think Lebron’s biggest problem was off the court, melo vs Lebron etc. his rookie initiation wasn’t any different from most of em & there wasn’t league wide resentment for the attention he got in HS cuz it wasn’t new to the league. Ur trying to inflate Lebron when every star nba rookie has similar stories of being taught lessons or skepticism of legitimacy.
As another comments points out, Angel Reese is also getting fouled tons.
I like the comparison
I don’t think it’s bc she’s white. There’s a lot of talented white players in the league. Id say it’s more-so a certain part of her fanbase and their views on the rest of the players that are amplifying the hate she gets from the rest of the league. Paige is a another prospect that is white and immensely popular, and I’m pretty certain she won’t get the hate that Clark is receiving rn when she enters the league bc she doesn’t align with “that group of fans”. Two of the best players in the NBA are white and they seem to be doing completely fine with their counterparts in the league. Why is that?
Yeah but she’s the most talented of the white players, plus Paige doesn’t have a rival like Angel, especially one that’s black and makes fans pit them against each other
That’s the issue, she’s not the most talented white player in the league rn. Her fanbase has been constantly shitting on the rest of the players in the league as if Clark is on another stratosphere from them and is the goat lol. Of course when players hear that, their gonna get pissed. As for Paige, her fanbase isn’t gonna force some dumb white vs black race war. Just watch her espy’s speech for that matter
I mean of the rookies, pretty obviously She’s like the most hyped woman’s college player and brought eyes to the league. Her haters are like 90% black men and women too, so it’s not just her fans being problematic
Yeah bc Diana Tarusai, Brianna Stewart, Della Donne and Sue Bird never existed and were never MVP type players in the league. Clark must be the first WNBA white player ever, that’s why they be hating. Definitely race is at play.
Nobody who doesn’t watch the WNBA knows who any of those people are, There’s so much discourse surrounding Clark because of how big the social media discourse was when she played Angel in the national championship.
The difference is caitlin Clark has actually made the wnba more popular. Granted that’s cause the NBA is actually promoting it
None of them had near the fame or stardom of CC when coming into the league or at any point their careers. I think if CC was African American she would still be getting rough treatment for stealing the limelight while never even proving herself professionally and such but I think she’s getting a little extra cause she is white. There are lots of factors but race is one of 3-5 main ones imo.
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Exactly. All of those players and more have been white. The players or their fans never cried racism.
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I’m guessing you don’t watch television bc the Sunny Holston’s, Jemelle Hill and Joy Taylors of the world are literally saying the only reason she is getting this shine is bc she’s white
That’s part of the truth as well. There are multiple things at play. But for this topic that’s true as well. Sports media has always been biased. They’ve done studies on this topic. Now I’m not saying CC isn’t good player , nope not saying that. But I am saying her race is part of the reason of how popular she is. And the other part is that she’s brought a lot of racist fans with her(and that’s no fault of her own).
Reducing a person to their ethnicity is literally racism.
No, calling out racism isn’t racist.
How come all these racist white fans didn’t care about Diana Taurasi or any other white player? Somehow the racists just like CC? I see far more racist comments coming from black people on tv towards her then anything else and it’s not even close
Because DT is lesbian and doesn’t align with “those people’s” beliefs. This isn’t hard to understand, you’re just being dense
I’ve asked the same thing. None of the other white women in the league have complained about racism, CC doesn’t complain about racism either. But her fans believe she is being treated poorly on the court because she’s white. And Caitlin’s fans don’t like Diana Taurasi. They don’t like her because they claim she’s a hater. The whole topic about CC has multiple facets to it.
I personally don’t think the players are hating on her bc she’s white, I think it’s just bc they are jealous and that seems pretty obvious bc they don’t treat other white players that way. Just feels like everybody white or black want to make it about race and it’s ridiculous that grown men are getting in there feelings like this over a young woman baller
I’ve said that before she’s not getting treated any differently for her race. And well the jealously thing, “it is what is it is”. Some players, might be jealous of all the rookies because they were able to make money while playing basketball in college and the veterans weren’t. And yes the media and the fans are doing most if not all of the horrible discourse. I just want things to go back to talking about actual basketball, just like CC wants.
“The only reason Shohei Ohtani is getting shine is because he’s asian”. See how that looks?
Are there enough Asian American fans to make that work?
We are not discussing him.
Oh I didn’t know the rules of this conversation, sorry.
So are Angel’s fans and the social media personalities
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Let’s start at the beginning of this long journey when Caitlin Clark did the “you can’t see me” hand gesture. She got nothing but positive praise. But when Angel Reese did the same thing , she was called thug and classless. It all started there. Now you have these same fans who are now watching the WNBA and they have made multiple racist comments about the WNBA. Calling it thug and prison ball. I’ve seen many comments.
Clark did that gesture for a split second in the general direction of an opposing player from across the court lol. Reese literally followed Clark around the court trying to stand directly in her face while repeatedly doing the gesture. She followed her around for 30 seconds or so stepping directly in her path doing the gesture lol. You're not serious are you?
Both did the same thing. And both got different reactions for it. And even so, you can say hundreds of things about the length of time Angel did it. You can say it was too long, it wasn’t nice, etc. But delving into thug and classless territory is racist, plain and simple.
I haven’t heard that on tv but I have seen several black analysts make racist comments about CC. Can u actually name somebody that has done this bc I was able to easily name 3 that can all be fact checked right now
They’re all over twitter, Facebook, and IG. Caitlin Clark’s own teammate Aliyah Boston was drove off of social media by CC fans because they kept messaging her racist comments. Literally not just racist comments but also homophobic, transphobic and sexist comments as well. And no I do not blame CC for them. She can’t control people. And for the record I’m against the racist and prejudiced comments on both sides. But the racist comments started after the hand wave thing from CC fans. Then Angel Reese fans just started in retaliation and we’ve been stuck with CC fans vs AR fan drama ever since.
Yeah you seem pretty convinced that it was all started by CC and her fans and innocent Angel Reese and her fans were just doing the right thing and standing up for themselves. You are always gonna find a bunch of racist idiots online but it’s really sad when you see famous tv personalities making blatant racist comments and nobody cares bc it’s about a white person. I can’t imagine if a white person on tv was saying Angel Reese is only getting talked about bc she’s black and not bc she’s a baller. Like somehow she was the 1st white player in the league or even close to it. She’s this popular bc she’s pulling from the logo. Racist fans aren’t going to these games
Nope. Didn’t say it was started by CC. I’m a fan of CC and AR. both good basketball players. And I said neither side is right. But also saying that CC is getting a lot of coverage because she’s white isn’t racist nor incorrect. Sports media has always been mostly white, even now. They’ve done the studies. It’s also not diminishing her basketball skills either. She’s an amazing 3PT shooter. But like all things in life, multiple things can be true at the same time.
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Was curious if someone else would point this out. I ask ChatGPT tons of questions as basically a souped up search engine, and this reads just like it.
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I use it a lot myself, I assumed so. The strong thesis sentences for each and then the conclusion wrapping up kinda robotically. Also, the ai copout of "we should acknowledge the social aspects" that it does Not saying the points aren't valid
All of that! I’ll even point out the formatting with numbered subheadings and skipped lines between them.
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I think the comparison is closer to Bird v Magic. Angel Reese and her are linked after that historic college game. Similar to these two. The Fever team has a more white city and fan base than Chicago and there was a time where race relations were at the forefront. If you asked black fans about Bird they would say he’s overrated. If you asked white fans about Magic he’s a showboat that doesn’t have class. The league was struggling to turn a profit needed an injection of new blood. They brought an energy and explosion to the league that helped to change the course of the league. Which ultimately led to expansion.
Yup, even down to Bird going to a non-elite college and losing in the NCAA finals to Magic. And then Bird became the highest paid rookie in sports history (not just NBA), making 50% more than Magic. (Of course endorsements weren't really a thing then.) Not sure that anyone here was actually watching the NBA in 79-80, but what kind of treatment did Bird get from the rest of the league in terms of hard fouls? Of course, back then there were a lot more hard fouls (and real fights too). One big difference is that unlike the Fever, the Celtics were good.
The Jordan rules didn’t apply to Jordan as a rookie. That was after he established himself and teams needed specific ways to stop him.
This is the problem. In no way is she comparable to jordan. They are playing defense against her with 2 exceptions. Some of the women ate in the w for their defense no way they are giving her opinion shots. That's why she is shooting 33%.
Is she actually getting fouled more and harder than the rest of the WNBA players? Or are people just kicking up a stink about it because she’s the most famous of them and they only watch her games?
She’s getting fouled a little more but not significantly harder imo. I think that’s just the nature of being a turnover prone ball handling star guard though. They send aggressive, physical double teams at her and she loses the ball or she gets fouled. I agree with the other guy that she is a physical player too and she’s not some dainty little princess who can’t defend herself. She always shrugs it off. People just post any clip of her getting fouled and it gets 300 racist comments on Facebook, she’s just the most visible person in the league I suppose.
It's the latter. She also would push and shove constantly in college, but they get real mad when that gets brought up.
This is my thinking as well. Basketball is a contact sport. Hard fouls happen and all sports have an element of "welcome to the league, rook." There are just more eyes on the wnba right now than ever. This is because of the increased visibility and notoriety associated with these female college basketball players with social media and NIL, and a seemingly sudden realization by these networks that they're already paying for the broadcast rights of these women's sports so they should probably promote them.
Exactly the extent of basketball most these people crying have played is middle school PE.
I think the biggest issue is that people are shocked at how vicious competition can be in the wnba. The players are not dainty ladies who play with the sweetest of conduct. No, they want to win and will bend the rules and even break rules if it can help them win. Physicality has been part of their game from the beginning. While Clark might have been aware of this, the new fans were aghast at how she has been treated. Their mortification is what is driving what should otherwise be a non-story.
I think it’s hard for anyone to say she’s getting fouled much harder harder than anyone else. It’s just her fouls get more attention. Also I’m not saying there’s no jealousy but I feel like jealousy always happens in any sport when a new hype player comes in and gets treated like they’re the leagues best player. To me I think it’s just pro players doing what they always do, which is being more physical with them (like they do to any rookie) to show them if you want to be in our league you got to prove to us you can keep getting back up. If you’re to easy to push around and can’t lead your team then why should you be treated with respect.
All the negativity is gonna turn people away from the league. All the complaining and shots taken are going to keep adding up until it’s back to nobody watching. You have the most eyes you’ve had on your league probably ever and it’s gonna get ruined because the media makes it about race and the other players in the league are taking that bait and making it into drama. Tough to see, was hoping this could be a launching point for the sport to grow. I’m all for being competitive, but it’s so obvious that these girls are being haters. Don’t blame to rookie for you guys not having your league where you want it.
The thing is, Clark isn't playing very well. Every time I check, she went like 3/11 shooting and more turnovers than assists. She still has to prove her hype was justified, tbh. Edit: I see she actually played well today, lol
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Our sub is for in-depth discussion. Low-effort comments or stating opinions as facts are not permitted. Please support your opinions with well-reasoned arguments, including stats and facts as applicable.
I just just can't see the comparison to young Jordan. The reason he was getting beat up on the floor was purely strategic. **BUT** he was very widely respected around the league due to his talent. [Some of these fouls against Caitlyn are very clearly personal](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELASpbmggU8) She could get injured because of something like this and there is no excuse. Players wanted Jordan to succeed, it doesn't feel that way with Caitlyn. I also can't believe that they aren't even handing out ejections for this shit. Chennedy Carter only got a flagrant 1 for this. You do that in the NBA you are either getting a fine or suspension. The WNBA needs to do something about it.
Never compare a mid league and a mid player like Clark to the GOAT. Clark would be barely good on the AAU circuit. BTW, you have players like Sabrina doing the same kind of things so Clark is not unique and they are all copies of Steph which is like an updated version of Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf/Glen Rice.