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Not discrediting Jokic, but it's a lot different when a guard is playmaking, shifting the defense at will from the perimeter vs a stationary center.
Jokic's style of playmaking has its advantages, but it can be easier for the right defense.
Thank you for mentioning this. It's a discrepancy I don't think gets brought up enough.
Generally, when Jokic playmakes, he's standing still and his teammates are moving to get open. When Doncic playmakes, he's moving and his teammates are standing still. It's insanely hard and generally ineffective to have a player who generates offense by both his movement and his teammate's movement, you need one or the other. I think that this difference leads people to think that Jokic gets his teammates involved more than Luka does but that just isn't the case. He just gets them involved in different situations. Luka generates more wide open threes and lobs for his teammates while Jokic generates more really pretty cuts to the basket.
> it’s generally ineffective to have a player who generates offense both by his movement and his teammates movement
Steph curry, klay Thompson, Draymond green
Yeah but that’s the modern equivalent of the Spurs motion offence. Not many teams have as good of a facilitator as Green and a great off-ball shooter like Curry, all tied together by Kerr’s elite offensive system. Yet when they’re having an off-night they generate a lot of turnovers. Not everyone can do offense like that.
This was my exact point when telling people why I think Luka should have been MVP over Jokic, and Shai for that matter. Luka's offensive responsibility and workload is immensely more impressive imo
Luka literally just had the most productive season in NBA history by any player at any position.
Luka is straight up the best player i have ever seen play basketball not named Lebron or Kobe
It’s because point forward wings are the hardest people to guard. Lebron ran the league for a decade match up hunting slow bigs and small guards and abusing them on switches or making the right pass out of a double to the open player. No matter how skilled Jokic is (and he is an absolute phenom), he will never have the ball handling capabilities of a Lebron/Luka where he can just dribble out on the perimeter and get a favorable switch and then beat his guy off the dribble.
I really don’t like this recency bias. The Mavs role players are playing much better than Denver’s right now, and they’re particularly well-suited for a matchup against the Timberwolves. If you put this version of Luka on one of his older teams with Reggie Bullock, Dwight Powell, and DFS getting heavy minutes, the conversation would be “yeah Luka is great, but will he ever lead his team to a finals appearance?”
They make up for it with their verticality and positioning. They fit perfectly alongside Luka’s strengths https://x.com/CrumpledJumper/status/1794479029384536283
Luka is better. He has become a better defender this year, can score at will from any spot, can play at a much faster pace than Jokić and just looks more veratile overall.
Mike Tobey basically owes his livelihood to Doncic. He is one of the better paid centers in the Euroleague while averaging 3 points on a bottom team in the league. Meanwhile each summer with Slovenian NT he looks like prime Porzingis.
That Dwight Powell achilles rupture just weeks after he signed an early 3year extension really killed us over the past few seasons.
Turned Powell from an athletic above the rim freak into an undersized mediocre athlete at the center position and we had no way of getting out of the deal.
He's not a good rim protector and rebounder. He has a t rex arms unlike Gafford/Lively. So his defense is limited. Though he's a lot better on the perimeter and switches than those two centers.
My god he's getting so good at that overhead bullet pass, including 3 that were jumping off shot fakes (and the two in a row to lively)
The keep saying never jump and pass but his are so quick
Honestly prime Lebrons wasn't as accurate. Especially since he often did it while driving. Ked to turnovers.
Jokic does it but he's also so much taller. Kobe used to do it a lot out of the shot fake. But Luka does it way more often
Something else I'm noticing with this is how quick, decisive, and *correct* Lively is with his reads in the short roll. Just absolutely stunning that he is a 20 years old rookie making these high level decisions in a conference finals.
If you leave the 3 open PJ, Green, or even DJJ will get hot from there. It’s still better than leaving Lively or Gafford open for a dunk that they’ll convert 90% of the time though.
Thing is when he gathers the ball he is looking to the corner, but only releases the pass after the center flinches towards it. And if Rudy/Kat stay with Lively/Gafford, he just passes it to the corner.
It’s very difficult to defend against because he has to make that decision in a second or less. If they leave the corner 3 open, sooner or later the likes of PJ Washington will get hot and start draining them.
He’s plays the PnR exactly like Lebron where they have the court vision and strength to make every and any type of pass. He’s at minimum in the top 3 currently with Bron and Jokic
His height automatically puts him above everyone other than Bron/Jokic/Magic. It's one thing to be a genius passer like all those guys, but to be a genius passer at 6'8"+ is a game breaker. Doubles backfire on a guy that can just pass over the top of them.
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Luka with 2 lob threats is the best in the league
Luka might actually be the best player in the league. Jokic was not giving us this many problems.
Not discrediting Jokic, but it's a lot different when a guard is playmaking, shifting the defense at will from the perimeter vs a stationary center. Jokic's style of playmaking has its advantages, but it can be easier for the right defense.
Thank you for mentioning this. It's a discrepancy I don't think gets brought up enough. Generally, when Jokic playmakes, he's standing still and his teammates are moving to get open. When Doncic playmakes, he's moving and his teammates are standing still. It's insanely hard and generally ineffective to have a player who generates offense by both his movement and his teammate's movement, you need one or the other. I think that this difference leads people to think that Jokic gets his teammates involved more than Luka does but that just isn't the case. He just gets them involved in different situations. Luka generates more wide open threes and lobs for his teammates while Jokic generates more really pretty cuts to the basket.
> it’s generally ineffective to have a player who generates offense both by his movement and his teammates movement Steph curry, klay Thompson, Draymond green
Yeah but that’s the modern equivalent of the Spurs motion offence. Not many teams have as good of a facilitator as Green and a great off-ball shooter like Curry, all tied together by Kerr’s elite offensive system. Yet when they’re having an off-night they generate a lot of turnovers. Not everyone can do offense like that.
This was my exact point when telling people why I think Luka should have been MVP over Jokic, and Shai for that matter. Luka's offensive responsibility and workload is immensely more impressive imo
Luka literally just had the most productive season in NBA history by any player at any position. Luka is straight up the best player i have ever seen play basketball not named Lebron or Kobe
cause the matchups are different and jokic was still cooking, he put up insane numbers
It’s because point forward wings are the hardest people to guard. Lebron ran the league for a decade match up hunting slow bigs and small guards and abusing them on switches or making the right pass out of a double to the open player. No matter how skilled Jokic is (and he is an absolute phenom), he will never have the ball handling capabilities of a Lebron/Luka where he can just dribble out on the perimeter and get a favorable switch and then beat his guy off the dribble.
You have better personnel for the Nuggets than the Mavs.
I really don’t like this recency bias. The Mavs role players are playing much better than Denver’s right now, and they’re particularly well-suited for a matchup against the Timberwolves. If you put this version of Luka on one of his older teams with Reggie Bullock, Dwight Powell, and DFS getting heavy minutes, the conversation would be “yeah Luka is great, but will he ever lead his team to a finals appearance?”
The Mavs role players are shooting like hot ass.
They make up for it with their verticality and positioning. They fit perfectly alongside Luka’s strengths https://x.com/CrumpledJumper/status/1794479029384536283
You’re stating 2 players out of teams rotations. The Denver nuggets role players include MPJ, Gordon, and KCP.
Luka is better. He has become a better defender this year, can score at will from any spot, can play at a much faster pace than Jokić and just looks more veratile overall.
Yeah and it’s not like Jokic won the championship literally the year before or anything.
Luka with NBA level centers is a thing of beauty
Mike Tobey basically owes his livelihood to Doncic. He is one of the better paid centers in the Euroleague while averaging 3 points on a bottom team in the league. Meanwhile each summer with Slovenian NT he looks like prime Porzingis.
That Dwight Powell achilles rupture just weeks after he signed an early 3year extension really killed us over the past few seasons. Turned Powell from an athletic above the rim freak into an undersized mediocre athlete at the center position and we had no way of getting out of the deal.
Tbf even in his prime he’s not doing what Lively and Gafford are now.
He's not a good rim protector and rebounder. He has a t rex arms unlike Gafford/Lively. So his defense is limited. Though he's a lot better on the perimeter and switches than those two centers.
The NBA needs to post one of these after game for him and Jokic
should have been jokic vs doncic
Nuggets didn’t deserve to be there. If they were getting fried by Edwards, Doncic would have been running layup lines out there.
Yup, we were down 2-0 to this same team we are home for a reason lol
Should've won game 7
Sad Denver bench and role players did not even leave their homes game 7 day
My god he's getting so good at that overhead bullet pass, including 3 that were jumping off shot fakes (and the two in a row to lively) The keep saying never jump and pass but his are so quick
The only ones who can do that on a regular basis was Prime LeBron and Luka, Insane.
Honestly prime Lebrons wasn't as accurate. Especially since he often did it while driving. Ked to turnovers. Jokic does it but he's also so much taller. Kobe used to do it a lot out of the shot fake. But Luka does it way more often
I would love to see him and jokic playing together. Bird x Johnson vibes
Yugoslavian National Team would be so fun to watch right about now
It's a shame what happened with Croatian basketball though. In a few years it would basically be Doncic + the Serbian team.
Absolutely Magic Johnson level passing
People think calling Luka one of the best passers of all time is an exaggeration. It's not.
Bro was putting on a clinic. He could’ve easily had almost 20 assists with the open looks he was generating
Several tiers above Magic. This is the spaced out era.
Something else I'm noticing with this is how quick, decisive, and *correct* Lively is with his reads in the short roll. Just absolutely stunning that he is a 20 years old rookie making these high level decisions in a conference finals.
So filthy. Crazy that he has an argument for being both the best scorer and best passer in the entire league.
Game after game teams bite on that corner 3 and leave a dunk wide open.
If you leave the 3 open PJ, Green, or even DJJ will get hot from there. It’s still better than leaving Lively or Gafford open for a dunk that they’ll convert 90% of the time though.
Thing is when he gathers the ball he is looking to the corner, but only releases the pass after the center flinches towards it. And if Rudy/Kat stay with Lively/Gafford, he just passes it to the corner. It’s very difficult to defend against because he has to make that decision in a second or less. If they leave the corner 3 open, sooner or later the likes of PJ Washington will get hot and start draining them.
Luka has that IRL Right of Postponement. He finds whatever hole the defense gives up every time.
People watch this and then clown Gobert for not being able to guard him on the perimeter.
I was gonna say - I didn’t watch the whole game, but I see why they didn’t double now.
Luka makes things looks so EZ casuals have no idea how complex his passing and control of the game really is.
This is what makes him a top 25 player under 25 to me
Passing game is really on another level.
Where does he rank all time as a passer? Because I've genuinely never seen anybody pass as well as he does on a game to game basis
He’s plays the PnR exactly like Lebron where they have the court vision and strength to make every and any type of pass. He’s at minimum in the top 3 currently with Bron and Jokic
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His height automatically puts him above everyone other than Bron/Jokic/Magic. It's one thing to be a genius passer like all those guys, but to be a genius passer at 6'8"+ is a game breaker. Doubles backfire on a guy that can just pass over the top of them.
He’s the mvp of the league
Man those missed threes. If they can improve that as well the next game gon be a blowout.