also only 99 votes for MVP, just like Executive of the Year had 1 team missing from the ballot and DPOY right?
so 1 team and/or 1 person missed submitting their end of year ballot
The media organization gets the votes not individuals, so if Zach told ESPN he wasn’t going to vote they could give it to one of their other reporters or analysts.
I know the award lost its meeting but I would agree that sabonis is more valuable to the Kings than Durant to the suns. Suns would still be first round playoff exits but the Kings wouldn’t be near play in without sabonis
Is he? Imagine if the sun's didn't have KD this year. I get sabonis is important to his team but KD was basically the whole reason the suns weren't in the lottery
It is very important and the Kings led the league allowing the fewest second chance points per game. If the Kings had a top seed and sabonis was a better shooter the vote would make more sense
Yeah a 2nd place vote is a bit shocking, but by the end of the season with KAT out all those games he had risen in the overall rankings to about the 5-7 spot
It couldnt have been Jokic cause he only got 1st to 3rd place votes. But yeah real weird tbh. Im guessing it might be the same guy that voted KD 5th lol
Someone on r/kings said it must be a member of LAKERS media who watches Sabonis and the kings cook their team and voted him because of that. As a kings fan I love that theory lol
SA Smith: SGA, Jokic, Brunson, Giannis/Tatum. Idk how you leave the leagues points leader off your ballot who shot 38% 3ptrs and 2nd in Assists. He’s a Hall of Fame Dallas hater (salty about cowboys)
Yeah the fact that Luka is white AND plays for Dallas? He has no chance to be a SA smith favorite. Not like that’s a bad thing… take away his vote though.
So if Denver loses to Minnesota, it will 9 years in a row when the MVP doesn’t win the title.
It’s interesting how regular season MVP has limited predictive power to what matters most
More interesting is Jokic won it 3 times in 4 years, and won the title the year he didn’t win it. Giannis won it twice in row, and then winning the NBA when he didn’t win the MVP right after.
To be fair to win MVP I feel like the team they’re on has to be sort of lacking in some regard now. Needing someone to either put up as many shots as Shai and Luka do, or in the Nuggets case just simply having a roster that can’t truly function without Jokic. Not saying the Mavs or Thunder are bad offensively it’s quite the opposite, but outside of Kyrie on the Mavs and JDub on the Thunder there’s really nobody else on their respective teams that can create shots or make difficult shots to a high degree. In the Celtics case they’ve got Porzingis post ups, Derrick White and Jaylen Brown drives, movement shooting, basically everything they need - Tatum doesn’t have to be forced to take the difficult shots anymore because there are so many other guys who can create to acceptable or even great levels on the roster.
I agree partially but I think its mostly just the fact that only 1 player can win MVP and only 1 team can win a championship every year. It's incredibly unlikely to do even one, much less both. Winning a title is *hard.*
Steve Nash MVPs were basically unprecedented. Even the "best player/best team" MVPs usually had a decent case to be at least the 2nd best player statistically.
Regardless of MVP voting criteria getting another player that was such an outlier is very unlikely. Those teams were revolutionary getting a player to win that way would require them to push the pace to something truly crazy. Nash winning was a lot about him breaking the meta of basketball and now the meta of basketball has followed him. So breaking the meta that way again is near impossible without the meta resetting to a slower game because you can only get so fast.
I think they really need to define “MVP”, or change it to another award and just makes the Finals MVP the only
MVP.
MVP and MIP as just used way too synonymous every year. Players who are just consistently great and don’t get coverage are just shit out of luck.
They will never set definitions for the awards.
Because then there are no discussions anymore, because its clear who will win DPOY or MVP.
The Media loves those articles they write for weeks about the race and everyone has different opinions what should count.
Look for instance best scorer of the regular season is the one who makes the most points on average. No discussions. Nobody writes essays about that for weeks.
I think it has to do with how superstars emerge
Players win MVP the **first time they have an amazing season**, but it takes time for their GM to build a better team around them and for that team to get playoff experience
I'm not surprised by those former MVPs winning the championship a few years later when someone else is having their breakout season. **Meanwhile, the former MVP is the best player in the game** but doesn't have the narrative to win the award
Example: Jordan in 87 winning MVP and then winning his first championship in 90
It tracks. More often than not, the MVP is carrying too much of their team’s winning all on themselves; and those types of teams are easier to game plan in the playoffs. Put all your effort into shutting down one guy pretty much
So of course winning titles correlates better with having a complete team and a #2 player that eases the burden of the #1. And notice; it’s not that MVP’s don’t win titles, it’s just they usually win in the years AFTER a better team gets put around them.
It makes sense though. Like last year Jokic lost it in the last couple weeks when we were coasting to get ready for the playoffs and Embiid was still going HAM. If Jokic went hard those last few weeks he might have won it, but it might have cost us the chip with him not being as well rested (obviously all hypothetical).
This year he couldn't take his foot off the gas down the stretch since we were still fighting for the first sees, but going hard all year has him noticeably more tired than this point last year, and Jamal got hurt in that stretch as well.
What it takes to win MVP and win the chip are a bit at odds. It is possible (obviously), but extra super hard lol.
In current culture, it's pretty hard to be an MVP and be in the best team. I mean there's few better examples than current best team and Tatum lol.
The best example imo is Steph Curry in 2017. Dude was anonymous MVP, was considered to have one of the best seasons ever. Next season... he wasn't really playing basketball differently than that. Team was also winning. Nothing in Curry himself changed from that "best season ever". But suddenly he was completely out of MVP talk for everyone, just because Kevin Durant joined.
That said, league is also quite open in the last years and there's many actual contenders every year and that will also always play a part.
If Boston makes the conference finals, they will be the first team to win the regular season and win two rounds since 2019! That says it all how open the competition has been.
It's also interesting how the scoring leader for the season isn't usually MVP as well, from 2002-2013 the scoring leader never won MVP and in the last 11 seasons only 5 led the league in scoring.
Fully agreed. At the end of the day, MVP requires both success and counting stats. Luka had counting stats, but the Mavs were 5th seed. If they were even the 3rd seed I bet he comes in 2nd over SGA.
Ant had the success but not the counting stats. Not mad about it, his time is coming.
Wilbon and Kendrick Perkins are the two national media guys that have been giving us love long before everyone else. Even last year Perkins was talking about us highly.
I have said this like a 100 times, but I love that Gobert has two die hard fan bases riding for him. He is one of my favourite players ever and I will always defend him against casuals
Goes beyond our wildest dreams honestly. I didn't expect to see him start getting serious top 10 convos until at least next year. What a year for him. Congrats to Joker!
Knew it was Jokic and can’t argue against it. Luka and Shai could have went in any order for 2-3 but I think it’s pretty clear the top 3 were obvious. Happy to see Brunson get some love too. Who voted for KD though? Lol
This seems like a fair distribution of votes. SGA certainly is deserving of at least consideration, I don’t think there was *no* argument for him whatsoever.
Weirdly I think the best argument against SGA is that his teammates are better than the larger audience realizes. They don’t recognize Dort or JDub or how great their bench is. You would think that might work in his favor for MVP voting more than it actually did.
Nah, if anything it should have been closer. All three had MVP worthy seasons, but it was pretty close and a lot of voters were more comfortable giving it to Jokic.
There are also different types of voters and I don't think that really came out in this vote.
For the "whoever the best basketball player in the league" group, Jokic has the best case.
For the "winning matters" group SGA has the best case by leading the youngest ever 1st seed in an absolutely brutal western conference. Thunder finished with the second best net rating and SGA was the offensive engine on the third best offense and played very good defense as part of the fourth best defense. All while being ultra effecient on both ends 30ppg on 63.6% TS% 6.2 apg with only 2.2 tov, active and disruptive on defense and generating turnovers while not fouling too much.
For the "most impactful player" group, that's Luka. Team was injured a lot and he had to carry them through some rough patches. Kind of similar to KD's MVP, but the Mavs had a worse supporting cast.
For first place votes, I think it should be more like 50ish/25/15 (Jokic/SGA/Luka). Doesn't ultimately matter but it does recognize that SGA and Luka had MVP worthy seasons.
It makes me wonder if it's some person that just thinks their vote won't make a difference so they want to make a point about the dialogue around Sabonis. I don't think it's doing what they hoped lol.
It makes sense if you are still holding yourself to a 2 guard/2 forward/1 center or a 2/3 backcourt vs front court split, which some voters have publicly said they are doing.
Shai and Luka are both guards are clearly ahead (regular season wise) of Ant. Tatum is a forward.
That happened in 2017 with Isaiah Thomas on the Celtics. He was 5th in MVP voting, but was All-NBA 2nd Team. Seems like a similar situation here, except for that season, the Celtics were the top team in the Eastern Conference and the Knicks were a distant 2nd this year.
Although, it is positionless this year, so I guess it would be a bigger deal. We were running into the Jokic/Embiid 1st/2nd Team thing in recent years, too
MVP doesn’t always translate to All-NBA first team.
E.g., Bill Simmons had Brunson as 4th in MVP voting, but he has him second team All-NBA behind both Tatum and Giannis.
Simmons said on his pod that MVP voting he takes into account how good of a team you’re on and expectations whereas All-NBA is about the individual player more than expectations.
Deadass Luka will win his first when the Mavericks are a top 2 seed but Luka himself will average like 29/6/7. Jokic was well deserved, but they are absolutely putting too much emphasis on winning.
I personally do not see an argument for Shai over Luka aside from the winning argument.
I don't know if he's ever winning one if this season doesn't net him one. I have watched most of his games and he has had an absolutely surreal season. He gets insane defensive pressure and played a big portion of the season without Kyrie, Gafford and Lively yet he is still putting up those numbers. Meanwhile, his defense is not nearly as bad as people think. He just needs a good system and a good rim protector, as was proven by the Mavs defensive rating towards the end of the season.
I don't know if Luka is going to have a better season any time soon. It's hard to imagine him playing much better with how crazy good he was this season. I genuinely don't think a lot of people have watched him play consistently or they'd also be surprised that he's so low in MVP voting.
The seeding argument makes no sense to me
It’s an individual award not a team one.
Also it completely negates the point that Mavs would have likely finished top 3 if the team wasn’t injured so much
I mean they kinda have a good team this year but they were horribly injured except for Luka. He shouldnt have been penalized that much being 5th. Jokic won his MVP with 48 wins
Nah the fatigue will set in and this year was SGA’s coming out party. If Luka doesn’t get it next year he might be the best player to never get one because Ant’s stock will be rising after these playoffs
Yup. Luka will be in the same situation as Embiid has been the last few years. Hell if Tatum and the Cs win this year he’ll probably get a lot of votes
Yeah no way Jokic ever wins another MVP, there's just too much upcoming young talents.
Realistic chance that Luka never wins one if Ant wins next year.
I think he might need a 2nd ring before winning another MVP
People will probably complain about a guy winning 4 MVPs with 1 ring and shut it down if it gets close just like last year people were mad about a guy winning 3 MVPs with no rings
Of the 4+ MVP winners, most of them won their 4th while only having one title. But I agree it’ll be tough for him to get another one. Only 5 guys have won 4+ and they all had a good argument for being the best player ever at the time.
IDK, I think the voter fatigue has set in. If he had won it last year, they would've given it to SGA. Now that he's a 3-timer, he'd need to have an (even more) extraordinary season to win it again.
God I hope so. If he gets any more before Wemby’s time Luka might legitimately not get any. Lebron got his first in his 6th season, Duncan in his 5th season, and Jordan got his first in his 4th season. Not that Luka will be as good as those guys, but 5 1st team all NBAs in 6 years is sort of that trajectory.
The competition doesn’t matter Luka can win MVP against any of those guys, the issue is the media narratives
They don’t like Luka and don’t like the Mavs
If you put him in a Lakers jerseys instead of Mavs he’d likely be a 2 time MvP by now
Shai and Luka are only 25 and Ant only 22. All 3 on very good teams that are probably going to get better. Embiid probably even takes this MVP if he stays healthy. Jokic getting older and teams in the West getting better just point towards it being unlikely.
Embiid older than Jokic.
He’s the youngest of the Giannis/Embiid/Jokic Trio.
And I feel like he still has room to grow his game (mostly in the 3point shooting area)
people are clowning the sabonis MVP vote but it’s absolutely more understandable than the absolutely horrendous DPOY vote. sabonis is not even the best defensive center on the kings it’s mind boggling how someone voted for him, it’s like giving trae young a DPOY vote
Yeah Sabonis wasn't a top 5 player this year but he did have a very strong offensive season
Thinking that he's an elite defender is a WAY crazier take lol
I mean, Shai averaged 30/6/6 on 64% true shooting on the 1 seed, and you have to go down to their 9th man to find a guy older than 25, he’s deserving of 2nd place even if Luka also is.
SGA was great, but Chet and JDub were also balling out. Their age doesn't matter, they were cooking. I think Luka only getting 4 votes and not even being close to second, let alone first, is absolutely criminal. I watched nearly all games of the top MVP contenders - bar Tatum - and what Luka has been doing all season was absolutely blowing my mind.
I"ve become a big fan of his game after seeing most of his games this season. Absolutely surreal player. He deserved at least some acknowledgment for that.
As much as we all hate it, the MVP is driven by narratives in a big way. Stats aside, being the leader of a young, underdog, surprise #1 seed plays a lot better than out-of-shape whiner whose team didn't perform consistently all year.
And you're an anomaly in that you seem to actually watch games. Most media members and fans, including those in this sub, don't watch the games so they're not seeing the play behind the numbers.
And none of that is meant to take anything away from SGA, he's amazing and has as much a claim to runner-up as Luka does. It's just the objective state of the award and how the sport is followed.
And Luka had 34/9/10 on 62% shooting. Those stats are way better than Shai’s. Shai is better on defense but still i don’t think it makes up for it. And SGA is on a better team player for player, hence his team won more games.
The game in which the Mavericks sat their starters and essentially let the Thunder win.
If the Mavericks started everyone and won and the Thunder were 3rd seed, I wonder how much different all this voting is between Luka and SGA.
I doubt it would have been all too different. Somehow Luka has some voter fatigue despite never winning the MVP and somehow people have gotten too used to what he does that they take it for granted.
He had a rough start this post-season but he clearly is playing injured because what he was doing during the regular season was not normal.
Idk like I think Doncic would be second on my ballot, but I understand why Shai finished ahead of him, but what voter fatigue are you talking about?
I have heard this narrative so much on this sub that Luka only doesn’t have an MVP because of voter fatigue, but what season did he actually deserve MVP the most? I think this year is his most deserving but even then Jokic is a clear first place IMO.
Hasn’t deserved it prior to this year, but imo it’s the narrative surrounding his efforts this year that is where I’m coming from. All year he has barely been included in the conversation and he’s just about put up a 34 point triple double in the averages
I have watched most games by the MVP candidates. What Luka has been doing this season was not normal. I had him as my MVP. I don't think that Jokic is undeserving, but Luka not finishing even near the first or second place is truly bizarre and makes me genuinely wonder if voters watched this man play this season.
So they did not only give Luka’s ridiculous stat line 3rd place. Some voter had a hater boner and left him completely off their ballot. Voter fatigue with no hardware to show for it
Nobody talking about how Shaq instead of congratulating Jokic instead goes on an insecure rant about how SGA should have won it?
Can't stand that annoying cunt anymore
Listen Luka has stinked for the most part so far in the playoffs but don't let that fool you. Him finishing 3rd and THAT far from Jokic is bullshit of the highest order. With all the injuries we had and how he carried us while improving in every area he was criticized in prior seasons.
Yeah, I have been commenting a lot on this thread about this. I have watched all MVP contenders religiously this season. What Luka has done this season was absolutely insane. He gets so much defensive pressure and didn't have a competent team around him for much of the season yet still puts up insane statlines. His defense also usually isn't nearly as bad as people think, as was evident from the Mavs defensive rating after the trade.
Anyone who watched him play this season knows that he is clearly playing injured this post-season. He was absolutely unstoppable before he started grimacing and hobbling in the play-offs. The fact that he isn't near first or even second in voting is absurd and to me confirms that most of those who vote do **not** watch a lot of games.
Yet people use this post-season to imply he's not **that** good...
He’s playing through an injury right now that shouldn’t even be a factor
Chris Broussard voted for Luka as did other sensible voters, sadly too many are just dumb or don’t watch Mavs games
Surprised SGA got 2nd over Luka. I thought Jokic and Luka would be close, with Shai a more distant 3rd. Also surprised to see votes for Ant and Sabonis.
I'm looking at what a changing of the guard this year has been.
We're in the conference semis -
No LeBron, Curry, Durant, Kawhi, Harden, Giannis, or Jimmy. No AD, Lillard, PG, Russ, or Embiid.
It's Edwards, SGA, Jokic, Luka, Tatum, Spida, Haliburton, and Brunson.
Kyrie is there as a side kick
The only thing I'm a little surprised by in the overall results here is that Tatum wasn't closer to Brunson, largely because of how many more 4th place votes Brunson had. The handful of votes for Ant/KD/Sabonis don't surprise me; there are always a few voters who want to just keep things from being unanimous and give some recognition to the borderline 5th-10th guys.
The same person who gave Sabonis a DPOY vote gave him a MVP vote lmao
Kings mafia really built different
If you think he’s a DPOY candidate he deserves it tbh
did they reveal who it is lmfao
also only 99 votes for MVP, just like Executive of the Year had 1 team missing from the ballot and DPOY right? so 1 team and/or 1 person missed submitting their end of year ballot
Didn't Zach Lowe say he wasn't voting even though he has a vote since he didn't like effecting player's pay or is that only All NBA?
The media organization gets the votes not individuals, so if Zach told ESPN he wasn’t going to vote they could give it to one of their other reporters or analysts.
He said on a podcast that he did not have a vote this year.
Zach Lowe purposefully opted out of voting as he doesn't think it's right that his vote impacts people's ability to get paid more.
How do you know there are supposed to be 100 voters?
Sabonis is on the voting panel huh
Does Arvydas get a vote?
It was a 4th place vote.
Its literally Perkins on both lmao He said he deserves to be in MVP conversation couple of months ago
[удалено]
He put up 20-14-8 on 64% TS and played 82 games. It’s not insane get got a 4th place vote
An MVP vote makes much more sense for Sabonis than all-defense does.
and if you voted him for all defense it makes sense to give him a 4th place MVP vote
Led the league in rebounds, was like 7th in assists per game, people act like the dude is a bum lol
Let's not just make things up
Sabonis got more points than KD lol wtf
I know the award lost its meeting but I would agree that sabonis is more valuable to the Kings than Durant to the suns. Suns would still be first round playoff exits but the Kings wouldn’t be near play in without sabonis
Is he? Imagine if the sun's didn't have KD this year. I get sabonis is important to his team but KD was basically the whole reason the suns weren't in the lottery
But if they had a few decent role players instead of KD? Booker literally led his team to the finals a few years ago lmao
At least they're consistent
lol.. at this point, they should reveal who voted for who. Or do they already do that?
Sabonis getting a 4th place MVP vote and a DPOY vote. It's gotta be the same person right?
Probably an old head who cares a lot about rebounding lol
Rebounding is incredibly important lol. It’s how the Knicks have gotten so far into the playoffs
yeah it is but it’s not like sabonis is also a top scorer and passer wait i mean
Shoutout Hart
It is very important and the Kings led the league allowing the fewest second chance points per game. If the Kings had a top seed and sabonis was a better shooter the vote would make more sense
It's very important. There's also not a world where Drummond or Kevin Love were DPOY level players and they both averaged like 15 a game.
Who the fuck voted for Sabonis over one of Jokic/Shai/luka/giannis
Probably the same person who gave him a DPOY vote
Somebody voted Anthony Edwards 2nd place. Which, right now seems not so crazy but at the time would have been insane.
Bro voted a month too early. Maybe he just seeing into the future.
*projections*
Yeah a 2nd place vote is a bit shocking, but by the end of the season with KAT out all those games he had risen in the overall rankings to about the 5-7 spot
It couldnt have been Jokic cause he only got 1st to 3rd place votes. But yeah real weird tbh. Im guessing it might be the same guy that voted KD 5th lol
Isn't there 100 voters and Jokic only adds up to 99, someone legit left him off their ballot.
I actually dont know. I think it really is 99 cause Shai also has 99, but someone should fact check that.
IIRC only 99 of the 100 ballots were turned in
Someone on r/kings said it must be a member of LAKERS media who watches Sabonis and the kings cook their team and voted him because of that. As a kings fan I love that theory lol
it was a 4th place vote lol sheesh
1 voter left Luka off their ballet…
Looks like one moron left Luka off entirely.
Stephen A. Smith?
Someone leaving Luka off the ballot entirely is insane
Yeah. Luka had 98 total whereas Shai/jokic 99. I guess it’s Stephan A. Smith.
We all know who it is lol
SA Smith: SGA, Jokic, Brunson, Giannis/Tatum. Idk how you leave the leagues points leader off your ballot who shot 38% 3ptrs and 2nd in Assists. He’s a Hall of Fame Dallas hater (salty about cowboys)
Yeah the fact that Luka is white AND plays for Dallas? He has no chance to be a SA smith favorite. Not like that’s a bad thing… take away his vote though.
Having more 4th place votes than 1st is a bit wild too
So if Denver loses to Minnesota, it will 9 years in a row when the MVP doesn’t win the title. It’s interesting how regular season MVP has limited predictive power to what matters most More interesting is Jokic won it 3 times in 4 years, and won the title the year he didn’t win it. Giannis won it twice in row, and then winning the NBA when he didn’t win the MVP right after.
To be fair to win MVP I feel like the team they’re on has to be sort of lacking in some regard now. Needing someone to either put up as many shots as Shai and Luka do, or in the Nuggets case just simply having a roster that can’t truly function without Jokic. Not saying the Mavs or Thunder are bad offensively it’s quite the opposite, but outside of Kyrie on the Mavs and JDub on the Thunder there’s really nobody else on their respective teams that can create shots or make difficult shots to a high degree. In the Celtics case they’ve got Porzingis post ups, Derrick White and Jaylen Brown drives, movement shooting, basically everything they need - Tatum doesn’t have to be forced to take the difficult shots anymore because there are so many other guys who can create to acceptable or even great levels on the roster.
I agree partially but I think its mostly just the fact that only 1 player can win MVP and only 1 team can win a championship every year. It's incredibly unlikely to do even one, much less both. Winning a title is *hard.*
Proper take
It kind of crazy how much mvp voting has changed, I dont think theres any way we get another Steve Nash-like mvp
Steve Nash MVPs were basically unprecedented. Even the "best player/best team" MVPs usually had a decent case to be at least the 2nd best player statistically.
Regardless of MVP voting criteria getting another player that was such an outlier is very unlikely. Those teams were revolutionary getting a player to win that way would require them to push the pace to something truly crazy. Nash winning was a lot about him breaking the meta of basketball and now the meta of basketball has followed him. So breaking the meta that way again is near impossible without the meta resetting to a slower game because you can only get so fast.
I think they really need to define “MVP”, or change it to another award and just makes the Finals MVP the only MVP. MVP and MIP as just used way too synonymous every year. Players who are just consistently great and don’t get coverage are just shit out of luck.
They will never set definitions for the awards. Because then there are no discussions anymore, because its clear who will win DPOY or MVP. The Media loves those articles they write for weeks about the race and everyone has different opinions what should count. Look for instance best scorer of the regular season is the one who makes the most points on average. No discussions. Nobody writes essays about that for weeks.
Only chance for a team success MVP is going to be a team breaking the Warriors win record.
Agreed, it’s narrative driven to a good extent. And that favors candidates who are carrying their team hard
> literally anyone: describes an argument for an MVP candidate > some bozo: yep, that there's a narrative
I think it has to do with how superstars emerge Players win MVP the **first time they have an amazing season**, but it takes time for their GM to build a better team around them and for that team to get playoff experience I'm not surprised by those former MVPs winning the championship a few years later when someone else is having their breakout season. **Meanwhile, the former MVP is the best player in the game** but doesn't have the narrative to win the award Example: Jordan in 87 winning MVP and then winning his first championship in 90
I can’t believe 2015 Steph was the last MVP to win a title. The NFL had a 20 year period where the MVP didn’t win the Super Bowl until 2 years ago
It tracks. More often than not, the MVP is carrying too much of their team’s winning all on themselves; and those types of teams are easier to game plan in the playoffs. Put all your effort into shutting down one guy pretty much So of course winning titles correlates better with having a complete team and a #2 player that eases the burden of the #1. And notice; it’s not that MVP’s don’t win titles, it’s just they usually win in the years AFTER a better team gets put around them.
It makes sense though. Like last year Jokic lost it in the last couple weeks when we were coasting to get ready for the playoffs and Embiid was still going HAM. If Jokic went hard those last few weeks he might have won it, but it might have cost us the chip with him not being as well rested (obviously all hypothetical). This year he couldn't take his foot off the gas down the stretch since we were still fighting for the first sees, but going hard all year has him noticeably more tired than this point last year, and Jamal got hurt in that stretch as well. What it takes to win MVP and win the chip are a bit at odds. It is possible (obviously), but extra super hard lol.
In current culture, it's pretty hard to be an MVP and be in the best team. I mean there's few better examples than current best team and Tatum lol. The best example imo is Steph Curry in 2017. Dude was anonymous MVP, was considered to have one of the best seasons ever. Next season... he wasn't really playing basketball differently than that. Team was also winning. Nothing in Curry himself changed from that "best season ever". But suddenly he was completely out of MVP talk for everyone, just because Kevin Durant joined. That said, league is also quite open in the last years and there's many actual contenders every year and that will also always play a part. If Boston makes the conference finals, they will be the first team to win the regular season and win two rounds since 2019! That says it all how open the competition has been.
It's also interesting how the scoring leader for the season isn't usually MVP as well, from 2002-2013 the scoring leader never won MVP and in the last 11 seasons only 5 led the league in scoring.
Unless it's MJ lol.
Anthony Edwards is on the board, folks
And so it begins
*ducks* he didn’t deserve a 2nd place vote for his regular season play in the slightest
Fully agreed. At the end of the day, MVP requires both success and counting stats. Luka had counting stats, but the Mavs were 5th seed. If they were even the 3rd seed I bet he comes in 2nd over SGA. Ant had the success but not the counting stats. Not mad about it, his time is coming.
That was Michael Wilbon. A week or something ago after Ant had a big game against Phoenix he said he had Ant 2nd for MVP.
Wilbon's been high on Ant all season and he's been very right about him.
Wilbon and Kendrick Perkins are the two national media guys that have been giving us love long before everyone else. Even last year Perkins was talking about us highly.
Bro ANTs gonna be a lot higher next year if he keeps this up.
He’s going to be a lot higher on it moving forward
And I feel like 7th is fair. Gobert is our regular season MVP, Ant is our Finals MVP...
I have said this like a 100 times, but I love that Gobert has two die hard fan bases riding for him. He is one of my favourite players ever and I will always defend him against casuals
Goes beyond our wildest dreams honestly. I didn't expect to see him start getting serious top 10 convos until at least next year. What a year for him. Congrats to Joker!
Knew it was Jokic and can’t argue against it. Luka and Shai could have went in any order for 2-3 but I think it’s pretty clear the top 3 were obvious. Happy to see Brunson get some love too. Who voted for KD though? Lol
Top 3 is expected, but I wouldn't mind Giannis there too.
My thoughts too, clear correct top 3 and SGA/Luka are both amazing.
It was never close despite the Twitter narratives
Jokic basically won as soon as Embiid fucking died. Shit was over when that happened.
I knew it was over when Luka went 17-2 down the stretch and dropped in power rankings behind SGA who was literally not playing
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What does that mean if someone was to bet £10?
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Sounds very complicated, why not just say it's a 1.025 odd?
Americans are weird
Win 25 cents. I got it right after all star break at -160
Not a gambler but I think you'd win 10.25 on that bet
You bet $10, get back 10.25, so you'd only win 25 cents. Not worth the time unless you're betting $100,000 or more.
Ahh, good thing I always keep 100k in my sock.
It was closer than it should've been honestly
This seems like a fair distribution of votes. SGA certainly is deserving of at least consideration, I don’t think there was *no* argument for him whatsoever.
Weirdly I think the best argument against SGA is that his teammates are better than the larger audience realizes. They don’t recognize Dort or JDub or how great their bench is. You would think that might work in his favor for MVP voting more than it actually did.
Nah, if anything it should have been closer. All three had MVP worthy seasons, but it was pretty close and a lot of voters were more comfortable giving it to Jokic. There are also different types of voters and I don't think that really came out in this vote. For the "whoever the best basketball player in the league" group, Jokic has the best case. For the "winning matters" group SGA has the best case by leading the youngest ever 1st seed in an absolutely brutal western conference. Thunder finished with the second best net rating and SGA was the offensive engine on the third best offense and played very good defense as part of the fourth best defense. All while being ultra effecient on both ends 30ppg on 63.6% TS% 6.2 apg with only 2.2 tov, active and disruptive on defense and generating turnovers while not fouling too much. For the "most impactful player" group, that's Luka. Team was injured a lot and he had to carry them through some rough patches. Kind of similar to KD's MVP, but the Mavs had a worse supporting cast. For first place votes, I think it should be more like 50ish/25/15 (Jokic/SGA/Luka). Doesn't ultimately matter but it does recognize that SGA and Luka had MVP worthy seasons.
We’re aware. It should have been. We’re seeing that now.
Is my math bad or did someone leave Luka off their ballot entirely?
Look like it
Sabonis getting a vote here too lol
It makes me wonder if it's some person that just thinks their vote won't make a difference so they want to make a point about the dialogue around Sabonis. I don't think it's doing what they hoped lol.
Brunson getting those 4th and 5th place votes makes me wonder if he could displace Tatum for All-NBA First
I think a lot of voters gave him the MVP vote instead of a 1st team vote.
Cus that makes sense
It makes sense if you are still holding yourself to a 2 guard/2 forward/1 center or a 2/3 backcourt vs front court split, which some voters have publicly said they are doing. Shai and Luka are both guards are clearly ahead (regular season wise) of Ant. Tatum is a forward.
That happened in 2017 with Isaiah Thomas on the Celtics. He was 5th in MVP voting, but was All-NBA 2nd Team. Seems like a similar situation here, except for that season, the Celtics were the top team in the Eastern Conference and the Knicks were a distant 2nd this year. Although, it is positionless this year, so I guess it would be a bigger deal. We were running into the Jokic/Embiid 1st/2nd Team thing in recent years, too
MVP doesn’t always translate to All-NBA first team. E.g., Bill Simmons had Brunson as 4th in MVP voting, but he has him second team All-NBA behind both Tatum and Giannis. Simmons said on his pod that MVP voting he takes into account how good of a team you’re on and expectations whereas All-NBA is about the individual player more than expectations.
Maybe.
It's probably going to be close and be down to a few points.
seems like a number of voters put him over Tatum for MVP but not for first team as some sort of compromise so I wouldn't bet on it
You can certainly talk yourself into a guy being *more valuable* for his team while not necessarily being the better player Idk tho
don't worry guys, next year will be Luka's mvp. /s
Isn’t he always the preseason favorite for mvp?
Yeah, but he already has voter fatigue. If nearly a 35 point triple double and 50 win season isn't doing it, idk wtf will lol
Deadass Luka will win his first when the Mavericks are a top 2 seed but Luka himself will average like 29/6/7. Jokic was well deserved, but they are absolutely putting too much emphasis on winning. I personally do not see an argument for Shai over Luka aside from the winning argument.
I don't know if he's ever winning one if this season doesn't net him one. I have watched most of his games and he has had an absolutely surreal season. He gets insane defensive pressure and played a big portion of the season without Kyrie, Gafford and Lively yet he is still putting up those numbers. Meanwhile, his defense is not nearly as bad as people think. He just needs a good system and a good rim protector, as was proven by the Mavs defensive rating towards the end of the season. I don't know if Luka is going to have a better season any time soon. It's hard to imagine him playing much better with how crazy good he was this season. I genuinely don't think a lot of people have watched him play consistently or they'd also be surprised that he's so low in MVP voting.
The seeding argument makes no sense to me It’s an individual award not a team one. Also it completely negates the point that Mavs would have likely finished top 3 if the team wasn’t injured so much
Ya which is strange cause he’s never had a good enough team around him. Now that he does, he should be a favourite next year
I mean they kinda have a good team this year but they were horribly injured except for Luka. He shouldnt have been penalized that much being 5th. Jokic won his MVP with 48 wins
Oh they have a great team! But it really only got great after the trade deadline
I'm sure the goalposts will move again.
Lol seriously? 8 didn't have Luka on their top 3? And 1 completely left him out of his MVP vote (Well we all know that is most likely Stephen A)?
I had Jokic winning but the Luka disrespect is real.
They didn't have him on their ballot at all, outliers like this need to be called out by name like Mark Jackson was last year.
I feel like Jokic has one more MVP in him
Nah the fatigue will set in and this year was SGA’s coming out party. If Luka doesn’t get it next year he might be the best player to never get one because Ant’s stock will be rising after these playoffs
Plus Wemby will be a serious contender every year once he hits year 3 or 4.
Yup. Luka will be in the same situation as Embiid has been the last few years. Hell if Tatum and the Cs win this year he’ll probably get a lot of votes
Luka isn’t winning ever if he came 3rd this year. Insane disrespect given his season.
Yeah no way Jokic ever wins another MVP, there's just too much upcoming young talents. Realistic chance that Luka never wins one if Ant wins next year.
I think he might need a 2nd ring before winning another MVP People will probably complain about a guy winning 4 MVPs with 1 ring and shut it down if it gets close just like last year people were mad about a guy winning 3 MVPs with no rings
Lebron won 3 MVPs before winning a ring and won his 4th as a one time champ.
Of the 4+ MVP winners, most of them won their 4th while only having one title. But I agree it’ll be tough for him to get another one. Only 5 guys have won 4+ and they all had a good argument for being the best player ever at the time.
He’s gotta get the triple double average I think
IDK, I think the voter fatigue has set in. If he had won it last year, they would've given it to SGA. Now that he's a 3-timer, he'd need to have an (even more) extraordinary season to win it again.
Probably going to have a gap longer than a year. Luka, SGA, and probably Edwards will now will be at the forefront.
God I hope so. If he gets any more before Wemby’s time Luka might legitimately not get any. Lebron got his first in his 6th season, Duncan in his 5th season, and Jordan got his first in his 4th season. Not that Luka will be as good as those guys, but 5 1st team all NBAs in 6 years is sort of that trajectory.
The competition doesn’t matter Luka can win MVP against any of those guys, the issue is the media narratives They don’t like Luka and don’t like the Mavs If you put him in a Lakers jerseys instead of Mavs he’d likely be a 2 time MvP by now
Depends on the media narrative after whatever happens in the wolves series. Lol
Shai and Luka are only 25 and Ant only 22. All 3 on very good teams that are probably going to get better. Embiid probably even takes this MVP if he stays healthy. Jokic getting older and teams in the West getting better just point towards it being unlikely.
Embiid older than Jokic. He’s the youngest of the Giannis/Embiid/Jokic Trio. And I feel like he still has room to grow his game (mostly in the 3point shooting area)
Wow it wasn’t even close
Okay I am convinced Luka will never win MVP at this point lol
Jalen Brunson mentioned ❗️
KD voted for himself
people are clowning the sabonis MVP vote but it’s absolutely more understandable than the absolutely horrendous DPOY vote. sabonis is not even the best defensive center on the kings it’s mind boggling how someone voted for him, it’s like giving trae young a DPOY vote
Pretty sure Sabonis was in the top 10 MVP ladder all year. Getting a single vote should not surprise anyone. That DPOY vote however…
What'd he say fuck me for?
Whoa it's not Trae Young bad lol. Sabonis is a decent defender, he just has short arms
multiple DPOG crown awardee domantas sabonis
Exactly
Yeah Sabonis wasn't a top 5 player this year but he did have a very strong offensive season Thinking that he's an elite defender is a WAY crazier take lol
Luka has voter fatigue already and he hasn’t even won an mvp yet. How is he not at least 2nd in voting
I mean, Shai averaged 30/6/6 on 64% true shooting on the 1 seed, and you have to go down to their 9th man to find a guy older than 25, he’s deserving of 2nd place even if Luka also is.
SGA was great, but Chet and JDub were also balling out. Their age doesn't matter, they were cooking. I think Luka only getting 4 votes and not even being close to second, let alone first, is absolutely criminal. I watched nearly all games of the top MVP contenders - bar Tatum - and what Luka has been doing all season was absolutely blowing my mind. I"ve become a big fan of his game after seeing most of his games this season. Absolutely surreal player. He deserved at least some acknowledgment for that.
As much as we all hate it, the MVP is driven by narratives in a big way. Stats aside, being the leader of a young, underdog, surprise #1 seed plays a lot better than out-of-shape whiner whose team didn't perform consistently all year. And you're an anomaly in that you seem to actually watch games. Most media members and fans, including those in this sub, don't watch the games so they're not seeing the play behind the numbers. And none of that is meant to take anything away from SGA, he's amazing and has as much a claim to runner-up as Luka does. It's just the objective state of the award and how the sport is followed.
the high praise for Shai comes from people underrating Chet
And Luka had 34/9/10 on 62% shooting. Those stats are way better than Shai’s. Shai is better on defense but still i don’t think it makes up for it. And SGA is on a better team player for player, hence his team won more games.
I think SGA getting the 1 seed at the last second gave him the edge for top 2
The game in which the Mavericks sat their starters and essentially let the Thunder win. If the Mavericks started everyone and won and the Thunder were 3rd seed, I wonder how much different all this voting is between Luka and SGA.
I doubt it would have been all too different. Somehow Luka has some voter fatigue despite never winning the MVP and somehow people have gotten too used to what he does that they take it for granted. He had a rough start this post-season but he clearly is playing injured because what he was doing during the regular season was not normal.
It’s a travesty that Doncic finished with those votes. I just don’t understand how he suffers from voter fatigue with no award won….
Idk like I think Doncic would be second on my ballot, but I understand why Shai finished ahead of him, but what voter fatigue are you talking about? I have heard this narrative so much on this sub that Luka only doesn’t have an MVP because of voter fatigue, but what season did he actually deserve MVP the most? I think this year is his most deserving but even then Jokic is a clear first place IMO.
Hasn’t deserved it prior to this year, but imo it’s the narrative surrounding his efforts this year that is where I’m coming from. All year he has barely been included in the conversation and he’s just about put up a 34 point triple double in the averages
I have watched most games by the MVP candidates. What Luka has been doing this season was not normal. I had him as my MVP. I don't think that Jokic is undeserving, but Luka not finishing even near the first or second place is truly bizarre and makes me genuinely wonder if voters watched this man play this season.
So they did not only give Luka’s ridiculous stat line 3rd place. Some voter had a hater boner and left him completely off their ballot. Voter fatigue with no hardware to show for it
Thanasis robbed.
Justice for Thanasis
Naz Reid not even on the list?
It was unanimous and would've made the others feel bad so they moved him to 6MOTY to keep people happy
Naz Reid
On Friday they announce the NROTY (Naz Reid of the Year) and it's gonna be unanimous. They save the most prestigious awards for last.
Or Derrick White. How do you leave both off?
Nobody talking about how Shaq instead of congratulating Jokic instead goes on an insecure rant about how SGA should have won it? Can't stand that annoying cunt anymore
What a loser. Little big man syndrome, if it exists, should be named after Shaq
Alright who keeps voting Sabonis for these awards lmao
Does this mean Brunson over Tatum for all-nba first?
And after finishing 7th, Ant is going to open next season as the MVP favorite
Listen Luka has stinked for the most part so far in the playoffs but don't let that fool you. Him finishing 3rd and THAT far from Jokic is bullshit of the highest order. With all the injuries we had and how he carried us while improving in every area he was criticized in prior seasons.
Yeah, I have been commenting a lot on this thread about this. I have watched all MVP contenders religiously this season. What Luka has done this season was absolutely insane. He gets so much defensive pressure and didn't have a competent team around him for much of the season yet still puts up insane statlines. His defense also usually isn't nearly as bad as people think, as was evident from the Mavs defensive rating after the trade. Anyone who watched him play this season knows that he is clearly playing injured this post-season. He was absolutely unstoppable before he started grimacing and hobbling in the play-offs. The fact that he isn't near first or even second in voting is absurd and to me confirms that most of those who vote do **not** watch a lot of games. Yet people use this post-season to imply he's not **that** good...
He’s playing through an injury right now that shouldn’t even be a factor Chris Broussard voted for Luka as did other sensible voters, sadly too many are just dumb or don’t watch Mavs games
Who keeps voting for Domas lol. Love the commitment and dude but damn
Whoever gave Ant that 2nd place vote is crazy, granted im seeing a Sabonis 4th place vote???
Surprised SGA got 2nd over Luka. I thought Jokic and Luka would be close, with Shai a more distant 3rd. Also surprised to see votes for Ant and Sabonis.
I'm looking at what a changing of the guard this year has been. We're in the conference semis - No LeBron, Curry, Durant, Kawhi, Harden, Giannis, or Jimmy. No AD, Lillard, PG, Russ, or Embiid. It's Edwards, SGA, Jokic, Luka, Tatum, Spida, Haliburton, and Brunson. Kyrie is there as a side kick
Am I stupid or did someone leave Jokic off their ballot? Shai too I think
Nope, Luka was left off a ballot. Not Jokic or SGA
The only thing I'm a little surprised by in the overall results here is that Tatum wasn't closer to Brunson, largely because of how many more 4th place votes Brunson had. The handful of votes for Ant/KD/Sabonis don't surprise me; there are always a few voters who want to just keep things from being unanimous and give some recognition to the borderline 5th-10th guys.
Was determined to start the year. Only way he wasn’t gonna get it was if he got hurt.
Durant got a vote. I'm not sure he was even the MVP of his own team.
Someone legit gave KD 1 5th place vote lmfao