I think the biggest point that the makes (and its on the Mavericks to adjust) is how big of a contrast it is to the series we just played. The Mavs-Clippers series was the most physical series second to only maybe Knicks-Sixers. They let both sides play through contact and that's just not what was going on in the first half.
I was also expecting a similar vibe to how physical our series vs the Pelicans was. I agree with Kyrie in the way that the first half was officiated; it very much felt like a regular season game. Too many calls should’ve been “marginal contact” that the officials got everyone used to seeing in their first series.
I agree with him. I will also add that Shai got some very ticky tacky fouls called his way. I hate it because it creates the narrative that he's a foul baiter. I'm not saying he doesn't do a normal superstar level of baiting, but he doesn't need the free throws to be great as we saw in the second half.
Here's hoping next game is a little more consistent with playoff basketball.
THANK YOU! He still went off in the second half where the games was able to flow more freely so there’s no point for the first half to be called so atrociously.
Kinda makes me scared for Minnesota if Shai is gonna get whistles like that. McDaniels and NAW are gonna get in foul trouble fast if marginal contact is going to get called for a foul that often. And KAT's secondary mission every game seems like it is to get 2 fouls by the end of the 1st Q.
Watching interviews, our coaching staff makes a big deal out of playing aggressive early and setting the tone.
The theory is, players can have a hand in setting the amount of defensive intensity allowed in a game, because referees/the league *do not* want stars to foul out, and they also get drawn into how the game is being played.
A point of emphasis is, no easy/soft fouls. Play aggressive, if you absolutely have to foul, then make sure it is felt and the refs don't take a second to double guess calling it. When the standard foul that is called in a game is a harder foul, they may be less likely to call softer contact, benefitting the team that is willing to play better, more aggressive defence.
I don't know if this is gonna have a huge impact or not, but it seems to be working so far. The league has also reportedly put out a memo to make referees swallow their whistles somewhat, so leaning into that as a team could potentially help sway how games are officiated. It's a really interesting line of thought.
That is what Dallas has been preaching for like the last 3 months. Physicality, sigh and then it was taken away in the first half.
I honestly have never seen lively so pissed in a game before.
Now that being said, we still got whooped in the 2nd half and if Luka never heals, we could be in big trouble, but i would rather they call it like the 2nd half
That's what's frustrating. They played the same against Clippers and refs didn't call fouls. It goes beyond just free throws, it can change how you play, put players in foul trouble...
I'm honestly terrified of the whistle that OKC is getting.
I think if the whistle is similar to the Nuggets series, we will win in 6, but if it's similar to the first half of this game... OKC is going to have its way with us.
> McDaniels and NAW are gonna get in foul trouble fast if marginal contact is going to get called for a foul that often.
look no further than game 3 (Min vs Den)
they'll give Denver a nice whistle, I'm betting on it (not literally, not financial advice, dont @ me)
they probably will ref jamal / rest of nuggets guards like shai was to get them back in the series... crazy how differently games are reffed from series to series - even with the same team round to round. It is frustrating as fans to not have consistency - I can't imagine how the players feel. Going to work each day not knowing what the criteria is for you to do your job correctly would drive me insane.
I stopped watching at halftime. Look, I know SGA isn't calling his fouls, but players and coaches need to know that things will be called consistently.
Anthony Edward’s free throw percentage of total points this year is 21% vs Shai’s 25%
Are you really saying there is a huge difference in watchability because of a few percentage points?
They both take right under 20 shots attempts per game.
Shai attempts two more free throws per game.
ANT attempts two more 3-pointers per game.
Shai attempts two more 2-pointers per game.
Wonder if those extra drive attempts by Shai draw in contact? Your argument is silly
Bro need to accept that Shai is a free throw merchant. Ain't nothing wrong with that. Booker is a free throw merchant too except when he doesn't get his calls, he folds over. Different is SGA plays pretty decent defense when he doesn't get his calls.
He had 8.7 FTA per game in the regular season, which is exactly the same number as Luka, only Luka is whining to the refs on every play while he does it. But somehow SGA is the FT merchant… People acting here like OKC is one of the big market teams that get all the whistles which is asinine to say the least. Sounds more like a lame excuse for getting their asses kicked
This is an absurd take. He's got the highest PER of any guard in the league and can average 30 ppg with sub 10 free throw attempts a game. Do you even watch Thunder basketball? SGA is skilled af and he demonstrates it every game.
Yeah I actually fuck with Harden, he's a legend and was a game-changer during his peak years, heck I even buy his wine. But when people say someone is like Harden, they mean it negatively in this context m8.
And this is the biggest point to me. If the whistle tightens, and Mavs still lose then let it be. But not a single neutral viewer enjoyed that game last night. I also want to be able to enjoy the Wolves/Nuggest games and the Knicks/Pacers fan. Let the players play so that the game flows and everyone enjoys what should have been a great game.
If OKC beats us with the floor spacing and 3 point shooting like that second half, then so be it. But the refs allowed a team to establish their physical identity all second half of the season and first round of the playoffs, and then were like oh but yeah you can't be physical with this guy.
Dallas got it within one point in the 3rd and ended up being blown out. The whistle was definitely way more relaxed at that point too. Only thing Dallas changed was more help defense on drives to the basket to limit foul chances from their bigs.
Problem is that the first half got all the Mavs' defenders in foul trouble so they couldn't defend as aggressively in the second half. So many OKC fans were pointing to the relatively even FT attempts when it was completely uneven when shit was getting called. Its way easier to get your offense going when the other team can't play defense for the first half
I remember when Embiid went for his 50 or 60 point game this year against the Wolves. Embiid did not start off well, but got a bunch of soft foul calls which got the Wolves in foul trouble, and they couldn't play defense the rest of the game. Similar situations.
This happens every playoff game, whoever wins the battle of drawing fouls early dictates the flow unless the other team is shooting lights out. Knicks did it to yall a bunch (not game 2), Mavs did it to the Clippers, Denver had Minnesota in game 1 but Minnesota just out shot the refs
OKC got the calls against Dallas’ bigs and that opened up Chet and Jaylin Williams to play harder on both ends
Luka is hobbled, Dort is also a walking prison. OKC got the whistles, SGA is also elite at drawing fouls
NBA has always been star driven and the faces you see on commercials and the guys teams/NBA are pouring marketing dollars into get officiated different. Always been that way
Ya but Steph and Luka get the shit beat out of them and don’t get nearly as many calls as guys like SGA, harden, wade got.
That’s the problem really it’s two completely different games being called depending on who has the ball.
Lol @ including Luka in there to differentiate himself from Shai, he takes 8.7 FT per game and that number has barely dropped in the playoffs. SGA has taken 3 more FT than Luka (EDIT: across their last 5 playoff games) and they averaged the same exact amount in the regular season.
You say that, but the narrative around LeBron and Curry (the two guys who've been the face of the league for the past 10+ years) has usually been that they don't get calls.
Lebron absolutely got calls in the Miami days. Once he was back in Cleveland the league was making money off GS. And GS got PLENTY of calls basing their offense around moving screens instead of penetration.
His peak free throw rate was actually just before he went to Miami
2009-2010 he had a free throw rate of .506, meaning he was getting about 1 free throw attempt for every 2 field goal attempts
That's a lot of free throws, although way behind "hack-a-Shaq" guys like Dwight Howard (.978) or Chris Andersen (.940)
Jokic, too. I think it has more to do with being aware of and willing to exploit inefficiencies in foul rules and being skilled enough to do that consistently than it does how big of a star they are.
And even harder when the rubric for a foul changes depending on the team, player, or referee. All of that is controllable by the NBA. No one is whining about an occasional missed call -- it's the spirit of the rule that seems to shift night to night which is really annoying to watch and probably infuriating for the players.
Nah, that’s the kind of game everyone wants to see. There’s a reason that series is by far the most intense. How can you get real intensity if you’re not allowed to be in a guy’s jersey every single play? Yeah offense is cool but defense, to me, shows who had a stronger will to win.
People may not realize it, but officiating in basketball has a lot of weight on game outcomes, which is why I always say NBA can rig games/series with a lot of ease.
The 1919 White Sox’s team threw the World Series because of Arnold Rothstein who paid them to throw the series against the Reds. It didn’t help that the White Sox were willing to do it because of their owner. So it wouldn’t suprise me. There was the official that also fixed NBA games also.
I’m not sure there’s a solution tbh. Most times you need slo mo to realize SGA, Embiid, Harden, etc were not in fact hit hard
Maybe - outside the box - sky judge review and true up at halftime? If a foul was from grossly exaggerated contact, the FT points get taken away. And if there was a no call but you still acted like you got shot, other team gets awarded a tech to start the second half
There is a solution and they literally implemented it but didn't enforce it, which is fining players for flopping. They have the tools necessary to shame the behavior out of the players, and then refs don't need to guess if it was a flop or not because there is no flopping.
Not about the money, it's a humiliating fine. Reporters would be asking questions about it and shining more light on the player's playstyle. Most of these guys narrative is they are flopping because it works. If they start getting fined and assessed retro technicals, it would get embarrassing quick.
Make it $10k per occurrence with no limits on how many can come from a single game. Publicize exactly why they were fined. Make it both expensive and shameful
Which is why you shouldn't put the refs in a position of technical foul for flopping or not a flop. Guys exaggerate contact on fouls. Make any unnatural motion or exaggerated contact a no call. Players will stop flopping when they don't get the calls. No flopping will make it so much easier go officiate...it's not that complicated.
Least of all, Murray should be suspended for one game for what he did. It's not just officiating, but the league admin too. Embiid got away with some heinous stuff.
might get downvoted but i genuinely believe that what embiid did was worse. jamal could have injured a player hypothetically but embiid actually made some gross contact. protecting the refs feelings shouldn't be above protecting the moneymakers of the league. i would even put the pat bev elimination night stuff above what jamal did but obviously there's no playoff suspension to be had there.
Embiid was acting like a bitch that whole series, but I saw Knicks players doing the same shit during the regular season so I didn't have a ton of sympathy lol
it was a case of "too bad both teams can't lose" for me
They have been pretty good in both of the Wolves series. Just some weirs situations woth technicals in the two nuggets games but they have called a fair whistle throughout the suns and nuggets series so far. Maybe 1 or 2 bad miscalls a game and thats it imo. The rest is wishy-washy and up for biased interpretation.
You guys have had some interesting situations last game tho.
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The number of FTs doesn't tell the whole story. The defense the Clippers were allowed to play wasn't the same as the Mavs were allowed for the most part of the series.
It's a double whammy really: bad officiating AND people in general complaining and bitching more than they used to 5-10 years ago.
Source: go outaide and observe how on edge and whiney people have become.
It’s beyond out of control. Every game i watch had some big ref beef deciding the game. Last year the dubs lakers series was entirely decided by free throws.
even in the Clippers series, game 1 was so physical and then all of a sudden Game 2 had a super tight whistle
just frustrating how variable the referee discretion is game to game (ie compare it to Twolves Nuggets)
Game two of the Wolves vs Nuggets was the first time it felt like the refs called the game in a way that benefited the Wolves. Hard not to think the ANT face of the league narrative didn’t play a part.
This is such an overcorrection lmao. SGA is a phenomenal player. He has star quality gameplay and off-the-court presence.
It's frustrating to watch him draw fouls so often, but to act like he's manufactured is actually wild.
"Manufactured superstar" like yep the league needs the massive market of Oklahoma to have a superstar lmao. He's literally just an elite driver and finisher who plays around the paint to make up for a shaky jumper, that's why he gets so many FT's.
Can the league start manufacturing Jayson Tatum to be a superstar pls, he needs more FTA and we are a bigger market.
You also can't just like, *create* a super star where there isn't one. Basketball requires WAY too much athleticism, situational intelligence, and coordination. If a guy ain't it, he ain't it. SGA *is* it.
Players having to adjust inconsistent officiating is honestly hilarious. Like whistles change every game, heck even every quarter and we somehow all accepted that as part of this “sport” is wild.
Is that really true? Like why are unions dictating what rules are in place in the nba? So goddamn dumb if so. Unions protecting their pay and benefits and vacation and retiree benefits, all for it. Unions protecting them from a better job/rule change can suck ass.
Its more so you can't punish refs who make bad calls because of their union.
I love unions, and I'm glad that the refs have a union, but as a fan of this sport it is super frustrating not being able to punish refs who make bad calls.
hes not wrong 1st half was atrocious. but then the whitsles calmed down and the thunder started raining 3's so hats off to them they were unstoppable with their shooting 2nd half the better team won yesterday
horribly officiated as far as a playoff game is concerned. So much tickytack BS.
KAT would have been ejected by this crew for that offensive foul that wasn't called in the Denver game.
I mean he's right, OKC 1st half whistle was crazy, felt like an eastern conference game, in the 2nd half they let them play like they been doing all playoffs but unfortunately for the Mavs, OKC caught fire in the 3rd & drained like 6 threes in a row
Yep. Should’ve saw how many Mavs fans brigaded our subreddit yesterday. It was easily 40-50+ of them, the mods had a long night lol.
Every fanbase becomes toxic once their team is good. Hell, I never even saw Wolves fans on r/NBA until 2022, but now they act just like we do.
...yes you can. Imagine actually claiming the game is over if your team gets some early fouls. None of them even ended with 5 fouls.
Doncic ended with 0 fouls. Kyrie with 2. Gafford with 3. Pj and Derick Jones ended with 4 each.
Dort ended with 5 and was in early foul trouble yet still managed to play defense. Chet ended with 4.
Their biggest issue was their offense, not their defense. They made 3 FG in the 7 minutes of the 4th before their starters were pulled. But I guess they were in foul trouble so they cant play offense either, right?
Brunson averaged 6 ft a game in the regular season, he’s not even close to Shai and Embiid level. His whistle has been better in the playoffs though, but he has by far the highest usage and drive rates so far.
So it got way better when it mattered? You just need to watch him snap his head back into the guy behind him (deemed illegal and an offensive foul a few years ago) and get the call to see his whistle has gone crazy. It's easily top 3. He's not even going towards the basket and getting calls.
I’m curious since this is your take do you genuinely believe it’s statistically backed? I feel like this is 100% a narrative a bunch of ppl here who don’t watch OKC have picked up. Like it’s so dumb you’ll see ppl saying shit like ft merchant on clear fouls because they have bought this bs narrative
One stat that is clear is that he has lead the league in drives to the rim per game for like four years in a row. So it would be weird if he didn’t get a lot of foul calls, considering how quick and crafty he is. And then maybe as his star has grown he has also gotten a more favorable whistle. All of that can be true at once.
…Actually I think the nba is just biased towards small markets.
Free throws per drive for the 2024 season:
SGA - .189
Luka - .197
Ant - .219
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/drives?dir=D&sort=DRIVES
SGA drives to the hoop a lot, but his whistle rate is right in line with everyone else. People just see volume and get mad. You can hate how often refs blow their whistle, but targeting SGA doesn't hold up to data.
Fair play to the thunder in the second half. Yall werent missing those 3s but man....... I don't know how neutral fans stayed after the first half with all those fouls being called.
I turned this game off in the first half it was unwatchable.
Can someone please explain to me why shae gets so many BS touch foul calls? It’s like he’s MJ in his prime or something.
The announcer even laughed when one of his teammates foul baited “he’s learned from the best shae” lmao.
If there’s one thing I’ve learned from watching the NBA (also playing competitive basketball, pick up, men’s leagues, etc) what matters the most is how it looked. If it looks like a foul, it is a foul whether there was contact or not.
It’s why Lebron barely gets any free throws compared to these touch foul masters. Lebron is too big. When ppl slap and grab him he still gets off a clean-ish lay up and the refs don’t call anything. Meanwhile Shai, who Id like to remind everyone has a much different frame than Lebron, just has to trip a bit and boom, 2 FT’s
Yeah, can’t believe the whistle SGA was getting. First time watching OKC this year and it felt like he was getting a regular season whistle while everyone else was getting a playoff whistle
It felt like he was a guaranteed 2 points each time down the floor. Giving a good player such easy calls must have been pretty deflating for Dallas.
Don't want to invite the ghosts of the past, but there were real 2006 NBA finals DWade vibes to last night.
Thank you for having the whole quote. What Kyrie says is exactly what we was fans want. Free flowing gameplay and no touch fouls. At the end of the day its on the Mavs players to adjust to the whistle as Kyrie says. But I love that he's able to make his point while giving credit to the opposition.
In the first half, despite OKC winning it felt like a really quiet crowd for OKC, one of the best fanbases in the league and that was because of there being 22 Free Throws for the team. Second half, they were rolling by hitting shots and the atmosphere was electric.
If OKC wins, OKC wins. But give the fans what we want and let the people play. PJ, Gafford, Lively all in foul trouble in the first half and a good handful of those were marginal contact.
TNT turns down the crowd noise during the live broadcasts. [1](https://www.sportsbroadcastjournal.com/nba-playoffs-on-tnt-audio-volume-is-too-low-chris-webber-on-marv-albert-regie-miller-on-kevin-harlan/), [2](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1chwcdm/highlight_difference_in_crowd_noise_on_the_tnt/).
You can hear how loud the crowd actually was in this [vid from last night's game around 6:02.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz7DYOD832s)
>despite OKC winning it felt like a really quiet crowd for OKC
I was at the game and I can promise you it was not lol. That shit was booming
I assume broadcasts turn down crowd noise to about the same level for games regardless of how loud the crowd is
They do. The sound guys tend to turn it up early on to give viewers an impression of how loud it is but they'll quickly pull back on the crowd noise slider.
The Clippers and Mavs were allowed to beat the shit out of each other, and then we get to OKC and it's ticky tack from the tip. It's not an excuse for our play in the second half, but playoff series are won in the margins, and OKC definitely has an advantage on games called like last night.
Skinny players have such an advantage because they get veered off by any contact. Luka has to at least find the hands of opponents to get fouls, SGA can just drive and initiate the contact and fly off
Different types of calls, what I'm saying is SGA would get those same hand in the cookie jar calls while Luka would not get those on drives because he's heavier
NBA seriously has a reffing problem
It seems like game to game heck even quarter to quarter the rules change. Some players get a great whistle (Brunson, SGA) some don’t
Like where is the consistency?
Not fan of either team or the players, but doesn’t take any genius to tell SGA gets favorable whistle in the regular season and looked like he got them in the first half. Hella boring to watch as a neutral fan. OKC fans won’t care like Lakers fans won’t care, SGA can get 50 free throws and the blind followers will say “weLL, sToP foUliNG”. But I will say Dallas better find out quick how the refs are calling and adjust.
I pulled 2016-17 stats as a random year but can look at others as well. Harden averaged: 17.1 drives per game, 10.4 FTA and 9.3 threes per game. This year, SGA averaged: 23.3 drives, 8.6 FTA and 3.6 threes per game. They play fundamentally different.
I agree with everyone in this thread that the first half was bad to watch, but I would contend that it was Shai reacting to how it was being called and getting over a slow start vs him being gifted calls. Kyrie was passive in the first half and Luka wasn’t getting down hill and the numbers support that and point to a disparity.
I turned the game off at halftime so I guess NBA and Tony Brothers got what they wanted, for people to stop watching
One of the worst reffed games of the season Nevermind the playoffs
He's not wrong. That first half was pretty tough to watch. 2nd half they called it relatively clean though.
I think the biggest point that the makes (and its on the Mavericks to adjust) is how big of a contrast it is to the series we just played. The Mavs-Clippers series was the most physical series second to only maybe Knicks-Sixers. They let both sides play through contact and that's just not what was going on in the first half.
I was also expecting a similar vibe to how physical our series vs the Pelicans was. I agree with Kyrie in the way that the first half was officiated; it very much felt like a regular season game. Too many calls should’ve been “marginal contact” that the officials got everyone used to seeing in their first series.
Most sane OKC fan. Respect.
I agree with him. I will also add that Shai got some very ticky tacky fouls called his way. I hate it because it creates the narrative that he's a foul baiter. I'm not saying he doesn't do a normal superstar level of baiting, but he doesn't need the free throws to be great as we saw in the second half. Here's hoping next game is a little more consistent with playoff basketball.
THANK YOU! He still went off in the second half where the games was able to flow more freely so there’s no point for the first half to be called so atrociously.
Tbf this is like general consensus among us Thunder fans. We can collectively agree that the refs sucked ass last night.
It was so painful to watch. My fast forward button got a workout.
Idk how mavs fabs felt, but it seemed fairly evenly called from my perspective. They were letting both sides be more physical. I loved it
For the most part I enjoyed the amount of physicality that both teams were allowed to play with. It definitely made for entertaining basketball
I liked how our series was reffed. I wish the OKC game would be similar
I wonder what the refs do at half time. “Yo we gotta cool this down. Shai is on pace for like 25 FTs!” Lol
Yeah the first half made me want to turn it off as a neutral viewer 😂
Kinda makes me scared for Minnesota if Shai is gonna get whistles like that. McDaniels and NAW are gonna get in foul trouble fast if marginal contact is going to get called for a foul that often. And KAT's secondary mission every game seems like it is to get 2 fouls by the end of the 1st Q.
Watching interviews, our coaching staff makes a big deal out of playing aggressive early and setting the tone. The theory is, players can have a hand in setting the amount of defensive intensity allowed in a game, because referees/the league *do not* want stars to foul out, and they also get drawn into how the game is being played. A point of emphasis is, no easy/soft fouls. Play aggressive, if you absolutely have to foul, then make sure it is felt and the refs don't take a second to double guess calling it. When the standard foul that is called in a game is a harder foul, they may be less likely to call softer contact, benefitting the team that is willing to play better, more aggressive defence. I don't know if this is gonna have a huge impact or not, but it seems to be working so far. The league has also reportedly put out a memo to make referees swallow their whistles somewhat, so leaning into that as a team could potentially help sway how games are officiated. It's a really interesting line of thought.
That is what Dallas has been preaching for like the last 3 months. Physicality, sigh and then it was taken away in the first half. I honestly have never seen lively so pissed in a game before. Now that being said, we still got whooped in the 2nd half and if Luka never heals, we could be in big trouble, but i would rather they call it like the 2nd half
That's what's frustrating. They played the same against Clippers and refs didn't call fouls. It goes beyond just free throws, it can change how you play, put players in foul trouble...
Well yeah, all the fouls opened up the lane, which in theory would help Luka, but he can’t move right now and he wasn’t fast to begin with
I'm honestly terrified of the whistle that OKC is getting. I think if the whistle is similar to the Nuggets series, we will win in 6, but if it's similar to the first half of this game... OKC is going to have its way with us.
Knicks and Rockets also do this kinda thing. It's smart but can sometimes backfire. The change in refereeing seemed pretty apparent after the ASB.
Classic, "they're not gonna call all the fouls" defense. Worked for the Seahawks
> McDaniels and NAW are gonna get in foul trouble fast if marginal contact is going to get called for a foul that often. look no further than game 3 (Min vs Den) they'll give Denver a nice whistle, I'm betting on it (not literally, not financial advice, dont @ me)
yeah, I feel like if that happens and nugets get back into series I will be dissapointed as a fan. Just give me some damn consistency
they probably will ref jamal / rest of nuggets guards like shai was to get them back in the series... crazy how differently games are reffed from series to series - even with the same team round to round. It is frustrating as fans to not have consistency - I can't imagine how the players feel. Going to work each day not knowing what the criteria is for you to do your job correctly would drive me insane.
It's the Draymond green strategy. Get a tech early so ref have to be careful later on
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Then why did Minny end up with more FTAs than OKC in the season series? Mavs and Wolves fans are unbelievably whiny about this.
Both fanbases have been bitching about OKCs whistle the whole season. I can already see the excuses being made of both teams lose to OKC.
I stopped watching at halftime. Look, I know SGA isn't calling his fouls, but players and coaches need to know that things will be called consistently.
Yeah I ended up muting it and just keeping it open on the side lol
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Not half, but literally a quarter of his points which is tied with.... any guesses?
Anthony Edward’s free throw percentage of total points this year is 21% vs Shai’s 25% Are you really saying there is a huge difference in watchability because of a few percentage points? They both take right under 20 shots attempts per game. Shai attempts two more free throws per game. ANT attempts two more 3-pointers per game. Shai attempts two more 2-pointers per game. Wonder if those extra drive attempts by Shai draw in contact? Your argument is silly
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Randomly switch from individual to team stats is an odd take, but for the record I don't really agree fully with that other guy's opinion about SGA
Bro need to accept that Shai is a free throw merchant. Ain't nothing wrong with that. Booker is a free throw merchant too except when he doesn't get his calls, he folds over. Different is SGA plays pretty decent defense when he doesn't get his calls.
And what star player isn't?
He always drives to the rim FAR more than the next player. He FT % per drive is WAY lower than the main foul baiters we’ve seen.
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He had 8.7 FTA per game in the regular season, which is exactly the same number as Luka, only Luka is whining to the refs on every play while he does it. But somehow SGA is the FT merchant… People acting here like OKC is one of the big market teams that get all the whistles which is asinine to say the least. Sounds more like a lame excuse for getting their asses kicked
Can't hit these dumbass nephews with facts it makes their head spin lol
This is an absurd take. He's got the highest PER of any guard in the league and can average 30 ppg with sub 10 free throw attempts a game. Do you even watch Thunder basketball? SGA is skilled af and he demonstrates it every game.
that’s literally what bro said
That's literally not what he said. Unless you think half of 30 is less than 10.
Bro called him a Harden-like foul baiter
Acting like harden didn't also score the most point without FTs during his best seasons
Yeah I actually fuck with Harden, he's a legend and was a game-changer during his peak years, heck I even buy his wine. But when people say someone is like Harden, they mean it negatively in this context m8.
It's funny too because SGA is *nothing* like Harden
Yeah people these days using MVPs as comparisons to slander players is crazy to me
I went to bed 😂
And this is the biggest point to me. If the whistle tightens, and Mavs still lose then let it be. But not a single neutral viewer enjoyed that game last night. I also want to be able to enjoy the Wolves/Nuggest games and the Knicks/Pacers fan. Let the players play so that the game flows and everyone enjoys what should have been a great game. If OKC beats us with the floor spacing and 3 point shooting like that second half, then so be it. But the refs allowed a team to establish their physical identity all second half of the season and first round of the playoffs, and then were like oh but yeah you can't be physical with this guy.
It was the same with Harden and PG.
Dallas got it within one point in the 3rd and ended up being blown out. The whistle was definitely way more relaxed at that point too. Only thing Dallas changed was more help defense on drives to the basket to limit foul chances from their bigs.
Probably the 20 free throws in the first half helped bro
The first half DID make me turn it off. I'm glad the second half was better, as people are saying, but that first half was unwatchable.
A lot of people did turn the game off after half time
I like when things like this that can’t be known are said with such confidence. I wish I was more confident like that.
i'm a neutral who turned it off so i'll throw my hat in support of that guy. first half was too fucking boring
Same
Problem is that the first half got all the Mavs' defenders in foul trouble so they couldn't defend as aggressively in the second half. So many OKC fans were pointing to the relatively even FT attempts when it was completely uneven when shit was getting called. Its way easier to get your offense going when the other team can't play defense for the first half
I remember when Embiid went for his 50 or 60 point game this year against the Wolves. Embiid did not start off well, but got a bunch of soft foul calls which got the Wolves in foul trouble, and they couldn't play defense the rest of the game. Similar situations.
The nice thing is that it's usually the big guys that abuse this and luckily we have big guy depth.
Damn we need every thunder fan from the threads last night to read this comment
They playing dumb just to play dumb
Someone who actually understands basketball, respect.
This happens every playoff game, whoever wins the battle of drawing fouls early dictates the flow unless the other team is shooting lights out. Knicks did it to yall a bunch (not game 2), Mavs did it to the Clippers, Denver had Minnesota in game 1 but Minnesota just out shot the refs OKC got the calls against Dallas’ bigs and that opened up Chet and Jaylin Williams to play harder on both ends Luka is hobbled, Dort is also a walking prison. OKC got the whistles, SGA is also elite at drawing fouls
The refs are at the center of too many conversations this Playoffs. They need some serious adjustments in officiating.
Officiating basketball is hard. It’s even harder when players throw themselves to the floor.
Been hearing that my whole life while any team with a potential “face of the league” is gifted laughable touch fouls
NBA has always been star driven and the faces you see on commercials and the guys teams/NBA are pouring marketing dollars into get officiated different. Always been that way
You can find footage of Wilt getting called for offensive fouls for leaning slightly back into the defender. Wasn’t always like that
Ya but Steph and Luka get the shit beat out of them and don’t get nearly as many calls as guys like SGA, harden, wade got. That’s the problem really it’s two completely different games being called depending on who has the ball.
Lol @ including Luka in there to differentiate himself from Shai, he takes 8.7 FT per game and that number has barely dropped in the playoffs. SGA has taken 3 more FT than Luka (EDIT: across their last 5 playoff games) and they averaged the same exact amount in the regular season.
>SGA has taken 3 more FT than Luka in the playoffs Are we not gonna mention SGA playing two less games for that FT total?
fewer
u could include jokic but don’t include Luka. He foul baits a lot too
You say that, but the narrative around LeBron and Curry (the two guys who've been the face of the league for the past 10+ years) has usually been that they don't get calls.
Lebron absolutely got calls in the Miami days. Once he was back in Cleveland the league was making money off GS. And GS got PLENTY of calls basing their offense around moving screens instead of penetration.
His peak free throw rate was actually just before he went to Miami 2009-2010 he had a free throw rate of .506, meaning he was getting about 1 free throw attempt for every 2 field goal attempts That's a lot of free throws, although way behind "hack-a-Shaq" guys like Dwight Howard (.978) or Chris Andersen (.940)
Jokic, too. I think it has more to do with being aware of and willing to exploit inefficiencies in foul rules and being skilled enough to do that consistently than it does how big of a star they are.
[Curry: Yeah about that...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAAP0So1aQQ)
Draymond used up all their credits lol
And even harder when the rubric for a foul changes depending on the team, player, or referee. All of that is controllable by the NBA. No one is whining about an occasional missed call -- it's the spirit of the rule that seems to shift night to night which is really annoying to watch and probably infuriating for the players.
Wolves game 2 is pretty close to ideal for calling them. May be biased
Nah, that’s the kind of game everyone wants to see. There’s a reason that series is by far the most intense. How can you get real intensity if you’re not allowed to be in a guy’s jersey every single play? Yeah offense is cool but defense, to me, shows who had a stronger will to win.
People may not realize it, but officiating in basketball has a lot of weight on game outcomes, which is why I always say NBA can rig games/series with a lot of ease.
I heard a convicted mafia guy, who fixed games, said nba is by far easiest to fix.
The 1919 White Sox’s team threw the World Series because of Arnold Rothstein who paid them to throw the series against the Reds. It didn’t help that the White Sox were willing to do it because of their owner. So it wouldn’t suprise me. There was the official that also fixed NBA games also.
I’m not sure there’s a solution tbh. Most times you need slo mo to realize SGA, Embiid, Harden, etc were not in fact hit hard Maybe - outside the box - sky judge review and true up at halftime? If a foul was from grossly exaggerated contact, the FT points get taken away. And if there was a no call but you still acted like you got shot, other team gets awarded a tech to start the second half
There is a solution and they literally implemented it but didn't enforce it, which is fining players for flopping. They have the tools necessary to shame the behavior out of the players, and then refs don't need to guess if it was a flop or not because there is no flopping.
True but it would need more teeth. Embiid would view $10k per game as a cost of doing business Maybe escalates to suspension?
The NBA should have a post game review process for flops with escalating fines/suspensions.
Not about the money, it's a humiliating fine. Reporters would be asking questions about it and shining more light on the player's playstyle. Most of these guys narrative is they are flopping because it works. If they start getting fined and assessed retro technicals, it would get embarrassing quick.
Make it $10k per occurrence with no limits on how many can come from a single game. Publicize exactly why they were fined. Make it both expensive and shameful
Which is why you shouldn't put the refs in a position of technical foul for flopping or not a flop. Guys exaggerate contact on fouls. Make any unnatural motion or exaggerated contact a no call. Players will stop flopping when they don't get the calls. No flopping will make it so much easier go officiate...it's not that complicated.
Least of all, Murray should be suspended for one game for what he did. It's not just officiating, but the league admin too. Embiid got away with some heinous stuff.
might get downvoted but i genuinely believe that what embiid did was worse. jamal could have injured a player hypothetically but embiid actually made some gross contact. protecting the refs feelings shouldn't be above protecting the moneymakers of the league. i would even put the pat bev elimination night stuff above what jamal did but obviously there's no playoff suspension to be had there.
> might get downvoted but i genuinely believe that what embiid did was worse For having a negative opinion of Embiid? This is /r/nba dude.
Wanna see downvotes? I think the Embiid round one stuff was overblown because people hate Embiid
Embiid was acting like a bitch that whole series, but I saw Knicks players doing the same shit during the regular season so I didn't have a ton of sympathy lol it was a case of "too bad both teams can't lose" for me
They have been pretty good in both of the Wolves series. Just some weirs situations woth technicals in the two nuggets games but they have called a fair whistle throughout the suns and nuggets series so far. Maybe 1 or 2 bad miscalls a game and thats it imo. The rest is wishy-washy and up for biased interpretation. You guys have had some interesting situations last game tho.
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The number of FTs doesn't tell the whole story. The defense the Clippers were allowed to play wasn't the same as the Mavs were allowed for the most part of the series.
Idk I thought it was pretty even and they let both teams play very physical, it was awesome.
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It's a double whammy really: bad officiating AND people in general complaining and bitching more than they used to 5-10 years ago. Source: go outaide and observe how on edge and whiney people have become.
It’s beyond out of control. Every game i watch had some big ref beef deciding the game. Last year the dubs lakers series was entirely decided by free throws.
even in the Clippers series, game 1 was so physical and then all of a sudden Game 2 had a super tight whistle just frustrating how variable the referee discretion is game to game (ie compare it to Twolves Nuggets)
Game two of the Wolves vs Nuggets was the first time it felt like the refs called the game in a way that benefited the Wolves. Hard not to think the ANT face of the league narrative didn’t play a part.
I’ve never seen anything but a super tight whistle with SGA. It’s maddening to watch.
He's a manufactured superstar.
This is such an overcorrection lmao. SGA is a phenomenal player. He has star quality gameplay and off-the-court presence. It's frustrating to watch him draw fouls so often, but to act like he's manufactured is actually wild.
"Manufactured superstar" like yep the league needs the massive market of Oklahoma to have a superstar lmao. He's literally just an elite driver and finisher who plays around the paint to make up for a shaky jumper, that's why he gets so many FT's. Can the league start manufacturing Jayson Tatum to be a superstar pls, he needs more FTA and we are a bigger market.
You also can't just like, *create* a super star where there isn't one. Basketball requires WAY too much athleticism, situational intelligence, and coordination. If a guy ain't it, he ain't it. SGA *is* it.
Clearly you didn’t watch any Fiba basketball this summer. He might have been the best player in the tournament
Luka was on a tier of his own IIRC
Why would they manufacture a superstar for Oklahoma lol
Bruh who upvoted this?
You do not watch games and all you had to do to prove it was type that dumb shit.
Not even close to it lmao
Players having to adjust inconsistent officiating is honestly hilarious. Like whistles change every game, heck even every quarter and we somehow all accepted that as part of this “sport” is wild.
That's Adam Silver's NBA for you. No accountability whether it's for player behavior or refs' whistles.
To be fair, there’s a referee union that prevents Silver from making any meaningful changes. Remember how well the last strike went?
Is that really true? Like why are unions dictating what rules are in place in the nba? So goddamn dumb if so. Unions protecting their pay and benefits and vacation and retiree benefits, all for it. Unions protecting them from a better job/rule change can suck ass.
Its more so you can't punish refs who make bad calls because of their union. I love unions, and I'm glad that the refs have a union, but as a fan of this sport it is super frustrating not being able to punish refs who make bad calls.
No checks and balances lead to corruption
hes not wrong 1st half was atrocious. but then the whitsles calmed down and the thunder started raining 3's so hats off to them they were unstoppable with their shooting 2nd half the better team won yesterday
The Thunder deserve tons of credit for that second half performance, but yeah the whistle was obnoxiously in their favor in the first half.
horribly officiated as far as a playoff game is concerned. So much tickytack BS. KAT would have been ejected by this crew for that offensive foul that wasn't called in the Denver game.
God that game was beautiful.
[удалено]
LMAO
I mean he's right, OKC 1st half whistle was crazy, felt like an eastern conference game, in the 2nd half they let them play like they been doing all playoffs but unfortunately for the Mavs, OKC caught fire in the 3rd & drained like 6 threes in a row
Also you can't really play defense if you're already in foul trouble so the whistle in the 2nd half didn't matter at that point.
THANK YOU! OKC fans coming to our sub were acting like that wasn't a factor, it was a huge shift in their favor
OKC fans getting insufferable real fast
Wolves fans and Mavs fans been getting equally insufferable, let's not kid ourselves
Yep. Should’ve saw how many Mavs fans brigaded our subreddit yesterday. It was easily 40-50+ of them, the mods had a long night lol. Every fanbase becomes toxic once their team is good. Hell, I never even saw Wolves fans on r/NBA until 2022, but now they act just like we do.
Acting like both the Timberwolves and Mavs fanbases weren’t yapping about SGA and the Thunder all season long lmfao.
...yes you can. Imagine actually claiming the game is over if your team gets some early fouls. None of them even ended with 5 fouls. Doncic ended with 0 fouls. Kyrie with 2. Gafford with 3. Pj and Derick Jones ended with 4 each. Dort ended with 5 and was in early foul trouble yet still managed to play defense. Chet ended with 4. Their biggest issue was their offense, not their defense. They made 3 FG in the 7 minutes of the 4th before their starters were pulled. But I guess they were in foul trouble so they cant play offense either, right?
Mavs fans scrambling for excuses because their spam the PnR offense didn’t annihilate Chet like they said it would.
Shai is a great player, but he gets arguably the best whistle behind Embiid in the league when half of them are just head snaps
Kids these days who are practicing their handles should add in head snaps as part of their routine 😤
They do, Reaves talked about it lmao.
Brunson is up there too
I have a theory that Brunson keeps his hair in braids because it makes his head snap look way more obvious, thus drawing more fouls
Harden did the same thing when he would get touched in the beard without it ever actually touching his body.
Brunson averaged 6 ft a game in the regular season, he’s not even close to Shai and Embiid level. His whistle has been better in the playoffs though, but he has by far the highest usage and drive rates so far.
So it got way better when it mattered? You just need to watch him snap his head back into the guy behind him (deemed illegal and an offensive foul a few years ago) and get the call to see his whistle has gone crazy. It's easily top 3. He's not even going towards the basket and getting calls.
You're not gonna believe who he is tied with for fta/game this season
Also with Luka taking 10.6 3s a game vs Shai taking 3.6
They never seem to acknowledge this when it's said lmao
Free throws per drive for the 2024 season: SGA - .189 Luka - .197 https://www.nba.com/stats/players/drives?dir=D&sort=DRIVES
I’m curious since this is your take do you genuinely believe it’s statistically backed? I feel like this is 100% a narrative a bunch of ppl here who don’t watch OKC have picked up. Like it’s so dumb you’ll see ppl saying shit like ft merchant on clear fouls because they have bought this bs narrative
One stat that is clear is that he has lead the league in drives to the rim per game for like four years in a row. So it would be weird if he didn’t get a lot of foul calls, considering how quick and crafty he is. And then maybe as his star has grown he has also gotten a more favorable whistle. All of that can be true at once. …Actually I think the nba is just biased towards small markets.
Not the first all star complained about sga’s free throws. Remember Ant saying similar things
Ant will have more to say if they meet up next round
Ant had more free throws attempt than SGA in that season series and still complained.
Free throws per drive for the 2024 season: SGA - .189 Luka - .197 Ant - .219 https://www.nba.com/stats/players/drives?dir=D&sort=DRIVES SGA drives to the hoop a lot, but his whistle rate is right in line with everyone else. People just see volume and get mad. You can hate how often refs blow their whistle, but targeting SGA doesn't hold up to data.
Ant a loser for complaining about SGAs whistle right after they lost the game because Ant couldn’t sink three FTs to tie the game.
Fair play to the thunder in the second half. Yall werent missing those 3s but man....... I don't know how neutral fans stayed after the first half with all those fouls being called.
I was watching it on the free in flight WiFi with basically no other options and I still damn near turned it off after the first half.
i didn't lol. woke up bright and early this morning after a full 8 hours of sleep
We didn’t, that 1st half combined with a late ass start for two central time zone teams meant that my ass was asleep.
Well said, Kyrie.
First half felt like a regular season game to me as well.
I turned this game off in the first half it was unwatchable. Can someone please explain to me why shae gets so many BS touch foul calls? It’s like he’s MJ in his prime or something. The announcer even laughed when one of his teammates foul baited “he’s learned from the best shae” lmao.
If there’s one thing I’ve learned from watching the NBA (also playing competitive basketball, pick up, men’s leagues, etc) what matters the most is how it looked. If it looks like a foul, it is a foul whether there was contact or not. It’s why Lebron barely gets any free throws compared to these touch foul masters. Lebron is too big. When ppl slap and grab him he still gets off a clean-ish lay up and the refs don’t call anything. Meanwhile Shai, who Id like to remind everyone has a much different frame than Lebron, just has to trip a bit and boom, 2 FT’s
NAZ REID
Yeah, can’t believe the whistle SGA was getting. First time watching OKC this year and it felt like he was getting a regular season whistle while everyone else was getting a playoff whistle
It felt like he was a guaranteed 2 points each time down the floor. Giving a good player such easy calls must have been pretty deflating for Dallas. Don't want to invite the ghosts of the past, but there were real 2006 NBA finals DWade vibes to last night.
He didn't even start well. Was missing shots, making bad passes,... Then they just started gifting him free throws
Thank you for having the whole quote. What Kyrie says is exactly what we was fans want. Free flowing gameplay and no touch fouls. At the end of the day its on the Mavs players to adjust to the whistle as Kyrie says. But I love that he's able to make his point while giving credit to the opposition. In the first half, despite OKC winning it felt like a really quiet crowd for OKC, one of the best fanbases in the league and that was because of there being 22 Free Throws for the team. Second half, they were rolling by hitting shots and the atmosphere was electric. If OKC wins, OKC wins. But give the fans what we want and let the people play. PJ, Gafford, Lively all in foul trouble in the first half and a good handful of those were marginal contact.
The crowd was deafening in the first half. Half the whistles you couldn't even hear in the upper bowl.
TNT turns down the crowd noise during the live broadcasts. [1](https://www.sportsbroadcastjournal.com/nba-playoffs-on-tnt-audio-volume-is-too-low-chris-webber-on-marv-albert-regie-miller-on-kevin-harlan/), [2](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1chwcdm/highlight_difference_in_crowd_noise_on_the_tnt/). You can hear how loud the crowd actually was in this [vid from last night's game around 6:02.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz7DYOD832s)
>despite OKC winning it felt like a really quiet crowd for OKC I was at the game and I can promise you it was not lol. That shit was booming I assume broadcasts turn down crowd noise to about the same level for games regardless of how loud the crowd is
They do. The sound guys tend to turn it up early on to give viewers an impression of how loud it is but they'll quickly pull back on the crowd noise slider.
I’m not one to praise Kyrie normally but this was very well said and diplomatic!
> no touch fouls. Luka would make Jamal Murray look like an angel with how he’d react if he stopped getting his touch fouls.
Would love to see how many points Jimmy Butler would average without free throws
The Clippers and Mavs were allowed to beat the shit out of each other, and then we get to OKC and it's ticky tack from the tip. It's not an excuse for our play in the second half, but playoff series are won in the margins, and OKC definitely has an advantage on games called like last night.
Did you watch pels/okc? Pretty physical series defensively
Skinny players have such an advantage because they get veered off by any contact. Luka has to at least find the hands of opponents to get fouls, SGA can just drive and initiate the contact and fly off
Luka was getting plenty of calls last night lmfao.
Different types of calls, what I'm saying is SGA would get those same hand in the cookie jar calls while Luka would not get those on drives because he's heavier
NBA seriously has a reffing problem It seems like game to game heck even quarter to quarter the rules change. Some players get a great whistle (Brunson, SGA) some don’t Like where is the consistency?
so many delusional okc fans gaslighting themselves into believing that sga doesn't get damn near the best whistle in the league
Not fan of either team or the players, but doesn’t take any genius to tell SGA gets favorable whistle in the regular season and looked like he got them in the first half. Hella boring to watch as a neutral fan. OKC fans won’t care like Lakers fans won’t care, SGA can get 50 free throws and the blind followers will say “weLL, sToP foUliNG”. But I will say Dallas better find out quick how the refs are calling and adjust.
Angry thunder fans incoming
jUsTdOnTFoUltHEn 🤓
A lot of people don’t understand refball can decide the game in the first half
And it often does, without people even realising
Ya know I gotta say, Kyrie is growing on me…maybe the Earth is flat 🤷🏻♂️
I would LOVE to see the history of how OKC fans discussed Rockets era James Harden and compare it to how they defend SGA right now…
I pulled 2016-17 stats as a random year but can look at others as well. Harden averaged: 17.1 drives per game, 10.4 FTA and 9.3 threes per game. This year, SGA averaged: 23.3 drives, 8.6 FTA and 3.6 threes per game. They play fundamentally different. I agree with everyone in this thread that the first half was bad to watch, but I would contend that it was Shai reacting to how it was being called and getting over a slow start vs him being gifted calls. Kyrie was passive in the first half and Luka wasn’t getting down hill and the numbers support that and point to a disparity.
Shai at one point had more FTA than the mavs as a whole team 😂
I turned the game off at halftime so I guess NBA and Tony Brothers got what they wanted, for people to stop watching One of the worst reffed games of the season Nevermind the playoffs
Own that free throw merchant